Week Ending June 7, 1997

Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:59:23 +1000 (EST) 
X-Sender: bryce144@fan.net.au 
From: Len Undy <bryce144@fan.net.au> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
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At 02:35 PM 23/05/97 -0400, you wrote: 
>I am soon to be lauching my first alien invasion in a Champions Campaign.  I 
>have been putting it off because the scale seems somewhat overwhelming.  I 
>would appreciate the advice or suggestions of anyone who has played an 
invasion. 
> 
>Here are some of my questions: 
> 
>What can I do to keep things moving? 
>What can I do to keep it fun and not bogged down? 
>What are some short cuts you have learned? 
>What are some mistakes that I can avoid? 
> 
>Anything else you might think of would be appreciated. 
> 
>Oh' in referring to manuals take note that I do not have access to more than 
>a handful of the newest books.  (ie. Champions version 1-4, C:TNM, and 
>Allies and Enemies Assemble are about it.) 
> 
>Patrick B. 
 
 
        I like my invasions to be BIG.  You shouldn't have too many of these 
type of Invasions, they should be BIG world shaking events.  The Aliens, 
preferably of the same type, should hit the earth by surprise and hard. 
Unless your governments in your campaign have encountered aliens before, 
they really shouldn't be prepared.  Perhaps they bombard the major cities of 
the world first, or disrupt communication.  Then they send in their 
unstoppable airforce(think ID4, or even Robotech).  This is where the heroes 
come in.  Ussaully the heroes base is in a city, so this is where you wipe 
out their base(in one of those-it looks trashed, but can still be rebuilt 
within a few weeks)   
        I like putting the heroes on the run in an Invasion, its one of the 
few opportunities that you get to do so. 
 
        Keep things moving: 
        1:      Keep the heroes on the run.  The Aliens are soon going to 
learn of the threat superheroes pose.  Therefore their going to want to take 
them down.   
        2:      Add lots of twist. eg.  A second Alien race, worse then the 
first attacks both sides.  Heroes must choose between the evil they know and 
a possible ally.  Shapeshifter that inflitrate the Hero community.  The 
aliens originally came from Earth and therefore have some claim over it. 
 
        Keeping it fun and not bogged down: 
        1:  In the "On the run" Invasion, the aliens will at first seem very 
powerful.  To avoid the feeling of "we can't win", show that the aliens do 
have major weaknesses.  See below for suggestions. 
        2:  Have lots of variety in your senarios(sp?).  This is a good 
excuse to send your heroes into all sorts situations around the world, and 
beyond 
        3:  Remember other heroes and villians.  Have major villians side 
with the heroes, and even show that the villians are human after all, 
compared to the aliens.  But also have villians side with the aliens.  eg. 
that evil corporation will build weapons for the aliens in return for 
advanced tech. 
        4:  Have you heroes hate the aliens.  This is doen in several ways. 
Have a hero ally die in a important fight, sacrificing himself in some way. 
Thus the heroes will seek some sort of revenge.  Have the heroes discover a 
concentration camp, where the human prisoners are about to be processed in 
food(but give the heroes a chance to save the victims before its to late). 
Finally, have the aliens seem, well, ALIEN.   Have there motivations seem 
completly inhuman.  Look to insects like ants, bees, and wasp, even spiders 
for ideas on this. 
 
        Notes: 
 
        1:  You must always decide how the aliens will be defeated in the 
end, before you start the campaign.  Are your heroes going to beat them to a 
stand still, causing the aliens to either respect human kind, or just give 
up.  Or are the heroes going to find the Hive Queen, kill her, and destroy 
the mother ship, thus wiping out all the aliens in one fell swoop.  This is 
the most important  part of an invasion, as you can then plan the steps 
leading upto it. 
 
ALIEN ENEMIES(some sterotypes for heroes to battle) 
1:  Standard hovertanks, spaceship fighters, armoured infantry etc. 
2:  Giant robots(hey don't knock 'em until you try 'em) 
3:  Powerarmour troops( perhaps their the aliens commandoes) 
4:  STEAL from movies, go on try it.  The Predator is just a powerarmoured 
assassin sent to kill the heroes, the terminator is standard troops, etc. 
5:  Alien Superheroes, furthering the Aliens ambitions.  The aliens have 
their own superheroe teams, etc. 
6:  Shapeshifters, inflitrators 
7:  Genetic expimentation:  All those humans, how can they resist using them 
in their experiments, perhaps making a new team of villians 
7:  Local villians: evil corporations, just plain stupid villians 
 
ALIEN WEAKNESS: 
 
1:  They aliens last studied the humans several hundred years ago, and 
expect a very basic level of tech.  Boy were they surprised when when they 
see us now.  However, they are still more advanced then us, but not that 
much more. 
2:  Limited numbers.  You can only fit so many soldiers on board the ship 
and the world is a big place.  The Aliens are slowly overextending their 
lines.  Combined with 1, the aliens are in big trouble. 
3:  Code of Honour, A Rule Book of War.  The Aliens are predictable, because 
of a code of honour or a strict set of rules on of war is fought.  Humans 
however are renowned for constantly changing the rules without consulting 
the enemy.  The Aliens even expect us to have the same rules, and are most 
confused with gurrila warfare and terrorist attacks. 
4:  Superheroes?  Aliens have never encountered something as strange as 
superheroes.  Super soldiers with thousands of different powers.  How does 
one plan against that. 
5:  Tratior!!  Perhaps some of the invaders actually like human kind, and 
will surply info and tech to the humans.  However, their pacifist and will 
not actually fight for the humans.  Another slant is that the helpers are 
another alien race hoping to use the humans against the invaders. 
6:  Drugs.  Didn't relize that ginger was so addictive to the aliens did 
you?  Addicts are willing to do anything for a little sample of their 
favoirite drug.  Even give info, or smuggle you aboard the mothership. 
7:  Enemy alien races.  Earth just happens to be the key to an intersteller 
war.  Whoever takes it will rule the universe.  Two or more alien races are 
invading.  Fortunatly the aliens see each other as stronger threats then the 
humans.  Heroes can use each of the aliens against each other in an attemt 
to weaken each of them for a final blow.  But can they do it before the 
earth becomes a wasteland. 
8:  Only one Megadeath weapon?  We only need one.  If the heroes can destroy 
the ship carry the megadeath weapon, the aliens will severly be weakened. 
9:  Time Limit.  The alien invasion is to prepare the earth for a colony of 
aliens.  The invaders must take the planet before a certain time or else. 
If the heroes can delay or even defeat the invasion, the aliens may be 
forced to negoitiate a peace treaty or loose thousands of alien civilians. 
 
        Well that all(!) I can think of now.  I hope this helps. 
 
        BRYCE 
        GRANDMASTER OF THE CENTRUIN IX ASSUALT FLEET 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
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Date: 24 May 1997 22:56:49 -0400 
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>>>>> "j" == jonesmj <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> writes: 
 
j> hapKIDO!! aiKIDO!! 
 
Aikido is three words: ai: harmony, ki: spirit, do: way.  The entire 
meaning is, roughly, the way of harmony of the spirit.  Hapkido is also 
three words: hap: (roughly) coordinate, ki: energy, do: way.  The entire 
meaning roughly being, because my Korean is practically nonexistant, the 
way of coordinated energy.  The "do" part of Hapkido did not appear until 
the late 1950s -- less than the 100 years you claim makes "my" 
interpretation obsolete.  This was also about the time that Aikijutsu (the 
art of harmony with the spirit) mostly ceased being taught, replaced by 
Aikido (there are probably a handful of Aikijutsu schools around, but not 
many; an Aikijutsu practicioner is a rarity these days). 
 
Calling "do" styles "sport forms" is a misnomer of convenience. 
Competition between schools that teach a particular style is common.  To 
moderate these matches there are regulatory bodies that deliniate exactly 
what can and cannot be done during such matches, just as (I'm blanking on 
the name, the Earl of Queensbury?) did for Boxing, the manly art of 
fisticufs, over a century ago. 
 
One of the clearest examples of this is Kendo, which really is a sport form 
of Kenjutsu.  In the various schools of Kenjutsu, the Bushi's sword art, 
almost anything goes, as long as it leaves you standing and your opponent 
dead.  But in Kendo there are exactly 8 ways to hit your opponent, seven 
strikes to various parts of the upper body (head, torso, shoulders) and one 
thrust to the torso.  Anything else will cause you to be eliminated from 
the match.  Because Kendo rigorously enforces these in training they become 
reflexive.  This is a liability in a fight against anyone other than 
another Kendo practicioner because Kendo teaches to block only those 8 
strikes.  A Kendo master that practices no other art is practically 
defenseless against a 9 year old kid wearing heavy boots. 
 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged 
                                    \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball. 
 
X-Sender: ctaylor@mailhost.cyberhighway.net 
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:06:46 -0700 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberhighway.net> 
Subject: Re: Charges 
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>OK, this may seem a little strange, but can someone explain to 
>me exactly why a charges limitation/advantage should EVER cost 
>more that +1 for an autofire attack and +1/2 for a non-autofire 
>attack?  It seems a little strange that having a limited number  
>of shots, even a very large number of finite shots, is more 
>limiting than not having any limit at all. 
 
I have a house rule along those lines, it's a silly holdover from the old 
reduced END rules. 
 
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Subject: Charges 
Date: Sat, 24 May 97 23:20:13 -0500 
From: "John P. Weatherman" <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
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OK, this may seem a little strange, but can someone explain to 
me exactly why a charges limitation/advantage should EVER cost 
more that +1 for an autofire attack and +1/2 for a non-autofire 
attack?  It seems a little strange that having a limited number  
of shots, even a very large number of finite shots, is more 
limiting than not having any limit at all. 
 
Actually, allong those lines, it seems that an autofire charges 
attack should max out its advantage at +3/4 and a non-autofire 
at +1/4.  After all, shouldn't having a finite number of shots 
always be more limiting than not having ANY limit. 
 
Just curious what all of you are thinking on this. 
 
PAX 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Subject: Re: Charges 
Date: Sun, 25 May 97 07:45:01 -0500 
From: "John P. Weatherman" <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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>> OK, this may seem a little strange, but can someone explain to 
>> me exactly why a charges limitation/advantage should EVER cost 
>> more that +1 for an autofire attack and +1/2 for a non-autofire 
>> attack?  It seems a little strange that having a limited number  
>> of shots, even a very large number of finite shots, is more 
>> limiting than not having any limit at all. 
>>  
>  Well, it seems to me that while you have a limited number of shots you  
>also are getting those shots at no endurance.  The no endurance is a 1/2  
>mod. off the top and autofire makes it possible to fire off more shots  
>than would otherwise be given to a hero of the same speed.   
 
That's actually my point.  The only advantage that charges give is No END  
on 
the shot.  So why should the charges "Advantage" cost more than the  
equivilent 
reduced END cost?  Even the Continuing Charges Rules seem awfully  
expensive. 
I can have 250 charges that last 1 hour each as a +2 1/4 Advantage, or 
Unlimited No END Continuous Uncontrolled Shots that never time out for  
a +2 Advantage. 
 
My thought is just that Charges as an Advantage shouldn't ever cost more  
than  
if you just built the power as a Reduced Endurance Construct, and IMHO  
should 
be a hair cheaper.  
 
>  I think that the way charges are, are fine.  If anything, I think that the  
>'clips' section of the rules is a little kind, but that is a loophole I can  
>live with. 
 
The clips rules are the only thing that has made Charges useful at all to  
me. 
At least with autofire, I can build a reasonably accurate automatic weapon 
that doesn't completely break Active Point limits just building a 2d6 KA,  
the 
standard for military grade gear in the Viper suppliment as well as  
CyberHero. 
I'm not sure why your considering them a loophole. 
 
PAX 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Subject: Active Costs 
Date: Sun, 25 May 97 07:45:04 -0500 
From: "John P. Weatherman" <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Has anyone else noticed that while Hero suggests things 
like a 60 Active Point limit for attack powers of beginning 
characters, they also create their "standard" weapondry at 
closer to 100 Active Points?  I'm refering in particular to  
CyberHero which is my best available Hero source for  
technotoys. Does anyone have any house rules for allowing  
heros to use the more powerful standard weapons that hero 
releases?  In particular, many of my character concepts have 
military backgrounds, so it gets quite frustrating to be 
unable to build military grade gear that's usable. 
 
PAX 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Subject: Re: Charges 
Date: Sun, 25 May 97 12:15:34 -0500 
From: "John P. Weatherman" <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>The limitation is that the shots do not cost the character Endurance to 
>use.. while a character without charges can rest and recuperate thus 
>gaining endurance back.. the character with the charges can run out if 
>the story line does not allow him the chance to recharge. 
 
That's why I was asking about a +1/2 / +1 cap for regular/autofire  
attacks.  No END cost on a normal attack is a +1/2 Advantage and on  
an autofire attack is a +1 advantage.  Sence the only "Advantage" of 
charges is No END, it seems the advantage cost should max out at the 
same levels No END itself does. 
 
PAX. 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
From: S McGinness <smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk> 
Date: Sun, 25 May 97 17:29:09 GMT 
Subject: Re:  Active Costs 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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"John P. Weatherman" <asahoshi@net.infi.nr> 
>Has anyone else noticed that while Hero suggests things 
>like a 60 Active Point limit for attack powers of beginning 
>characters, they also create their "standard" weapondry at 
>closer to 100 Active Points?  I'm refering in particular to 
>CyberHero which is my best available Hero source for 
>technotoys. Does anyone have any house rules for allowing 
>heros to use the more powerful standard weapons that hero 
>releases?  In particular, many of my character concepts have 
>military backgrounds, so it gets quite frustrating to be 
>unable to build military grade gear that's usable. 
 
My My John, we are full of questions this weekend aren't we? :-) 
 
I have broken away completely with limiting the active point cost 
of things. I don't think it is a good way to balance out the 
various powers you might come up with. I'm not trying to say that 
a point is not getting you a points value anywhere, though we all 
realise that things aren't (and can never truly be 100% balanced), 
but if you buy a 100 point power then it will give 100 point value, 
if you place limitations on it then it tends to give 100 point value 
_some_ of the time. Why should players be limited to either 60 
points all the time, or 60 points some of the time, and in some cases 
60 points none of the time?? If the utility of a power is very 
limited then I'll tend to allow higher point powers. If the power 
is limited in effectiveness then I'll always allow higher point 
powers. The active point might be a good initial point to start 
limitations but I tend to use it more as a guide than a rule. 
 
 
Stephen 
 
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:37:38 -0500 (CDT) 
Posted-Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:37:38 -0500 (CDT) 
X-Sender: rvb@visi.com 
From: Rob <rvb@visi.com> 
Subject: Re: Charges 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Part of the figuring of the value of limitations is in figuring the 
pragmatic value, not the hypothetical one. Up around 250 charges, on a 
single use attack, you're talking about over fifty turns of ordinary combat. 
I don't know anyone whose single adventures go through so much combat. This 
is ten or more average combats in my Champions experience. For a single 
attack used routinely, about sixteen to thirty uses for even the longest 
adventure would be about as much as pragmatically would be used. 
 
Turning to the case of autofire attacks, there's a whole other kettle of 
fish. Autofire attacks redistribute the odds on Stun Lotto effects of both 
normal and killing attacks, skewing in favour of Stunning. The difference is 
so dramatic in the case of killing attacks that my house rule doubles the 
cost of autofire charges on KA's. The mathematics of this is fairly 
involved, for a short reply, but it seemed to balance fairly well over a 
course of five years of weekly campaigns. 
 
As for inconsistencies in costs, sure, at the extreme limits of the rules, 
things often get a bit distorted. That's why GM's exercise discretion. 
 
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:45:53 -0700 
From: michael <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Rob wrote: 
>  
> This isn't by way of flame, and don't take it the wrong way, but when I 
> dabbled in such things, I met or studied under three people who met or 
> studied under the man called the father of modern Aikido. All of them eighth 
> Dan. None of them used 'kido' as a term in itself, although several times 
> their lessons addressed the subjects of 'do', 'ki' and 'ai', which I'm sure 
> you well know mean 'way', 'personal energy' and 'harmony' in Japanese. None 
> of them mentioned Korea, either, in connection with Aikido. 
>  
 
rule of thumb: i don't consider critical comments flames. don't think i'm going to be  
offended by dialogue. i tend to ignore such concepts, so i doubt i'd have any grounds  
for going all high-minded on you . . . 
 
 
 
> Perhaps I'm reading too much into what you're saying. Did you only intended 
> to cover Hapkido (which a second Dan instructor did mention had some 
> connection to Korea to me) in your statement? 
>  
 
it was a classification which made sense: both styles are simmilar, and deal with the  
concept of 'ki', and have common ancestry - it was merly a classification, one which i  
have seen used many times. 
 
 
> And, while I am getting old, I promise you this happened much, much less 
> than a hundred years ago. Judo only descended from Jiujitsu a little over a 
> hundred years ago, and the popular explosion in the various jutsu's and do's 
> began in this century.  It is more like the distinction of 'do' and 'jutsu' 
> was less important literally a hundred years ago. Given that - despite 
> claims of 'Te' adherents to the contrary -martial arts in the Orient are 
> less than eight hundred years old (much less than the four thousand year 
> Western traditions of wrestling and boxing, or the approximate twenty five 
> hundred year history of martial forms in India, where the Western traditions 
> evolved into the roots of the Oriental martial arts) it surprises me that so 
> many people get carried away to the extent that they do about all this. I 
> think it's just the fascination people have with the exotic that makes them 
> forget it's just another version of a sport. 
> 
 
 
 
i agree! however, the idea of  "do-vs-jutsu" comes from earlier times, in feudal japan.  
different schools "something-jutsu" competed in war and duels. and the "do" concept came  
in with judo and the like later on.  AND, there is a great deal of evidence that martial  
arst originted all over the place, from very old roots, and evolved together over time.  
i think it is silly to think "we(korean styles)" "them(japanese styles)"  or "us(chinese  
styles"  were the progenetor of martial arts. 
 
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:01:02 -0700 
From: michael <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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S McGinness wrote: 
>  
> At 02:35 PM 5/23/97 -0400, Patrick Barden wrote: 
> >I am soon to be lauching my first alien invasion in a Champions Campaign.  I 
> >have been putting it off because the scale seems somewhat overwhelming.  I 
> >would appreciate the advice or suggestions of anyone who has played an 
> invasion. 
> > 
> >Here are some of my questions: 
> > 
> >What can I do to keep things moving? 
>  
> Have you read the Harry Turtledove alien invasion books?? 
>  
> In the balance/Tilting the balance/ and something else about balance :-) 
>  
> There should be enough material for stuff to use in various 
> scenarios to base a campaign around. 
> plus try to get hold of the old "INVASION: DCUNIVERSE" stories. they had some cool  
scenes of a united superheroic front, and a good set of cool potential scenes. 
 
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:10:39 -0700 
From: michael <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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Todd Hanson wrote: 
>  
> Bob Greenwade wrote: 
> > 
>  
> > surrender, try to escape, or bring in some deus ex machina.  If the PCs are 
> > on the losing end of a combat that's getting boring besides, have a more 
> > powerful force show up to save their bacon (giving thanks for "keeping these 
> > guys busy until we got here," of course, just to make them feel useful). 
>  
> This is one thing I would definately disagree with.  As a PC it would 
> leave me feeling like I had wasted my time if I had just fought for my 
> life against the aliens, only to have the big guns show up to bail me 
> out.  I would be left with the 'why bother' attitude. 
>  
 
but the cavalry has to come alon once or twice: remember, the idea of global cooperation  
figures very strongly here. what better way to show it than have the "soviet  
supernaughts" turn up and save the characters ass, and then have the characters do the  
same?? it is a war, afteral, there should be wins and losses, and lots o' dead npc  
supers  :->~ 
 
 
 
 
> Instead, make the aliens seem unbeatable, but leave a method (or more 
> than one) where the PCs can discover a method to turn the tide of the 
> battle, kind along the lines of how in Independance Day they discovered 
> how to turn off the force fields of the alien ships (although I would go 
> for something a little more believable) 
>  
 
*sigh* no i really regret deciding not to be so abrasive. This is a cliche (no flame  
intended, todd) which has been done several times in billions of situations, and is one  
of the few plots used in startrek (no flame intended, universal studios!). I would  
aavoid it at all costs myself, but probably a better idea is to use it a littly bit  
(maybe neutralise a particular race in a coalition, for instance) but keep it to a  
minimum. 
 
 
> Let the PCs discover some alien technology that enhances their own 
> powers - giving them additional firepower and defenses.  It doesnt have 
> to be much - adding 2 to 4 dice to a standard attack makes it a really 
> nasty attack.. add a 10/10 force field to their defenses and an alien 
> gun that would have stunned them before is no more than a nuisance. Let 
> the PCs feel like they defeated the aliens on their own by outsmarting 
> them.  Of course, make the technology run off of an alien power source 
> so you can get rid of it after this scenario... 
>  
> Todd 
 
 
they did this in dc, i think(no flame intended, DC comics) 
and it's a bit mean(no fl-oh, forget it) maybe they could steal a ship or two, 
and maybe you could tell them to save their points before the scenario, so one or two of  
them can have a radiation accident? 
 
From: David.Berge@october.com (David Berge) 
Date: 25 May 97 12:16:08 -0800 
Subject: How many d6 does a papae 
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *  
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 4 
 
Patrick Barden writes: 
 
h> How do you figure out how much damage a thrown object will do when it 
 > hits a person.  I have been told that you do 
 > damage based on extra strength.  This doesn't seem quite right.  By this 
 > standard a paper airplane could be quite deadly in the hands of a strong 
 > enough brick. 
 
Terminal velocity intrudes. An object's terminal velocity depends on its 
density and shape. The paper airplane simply can't go fast enough to do the 
full STR damage of a normal person. (More precisely, the airplane dece- 
lerates immediately when it leaves the thrower's hand.) 
 
In game terms, I would set an upper limit on the thrown damage that any 
object can generate. Anyone can probably do full damage with dense metal 
objects. Bricks will hit a limit with objects of density less than, oh, 3, 
and everyone else will be limited with objects less dense than water (1.0). 
 
I don't want to assign exact numbers, though; it's really not an important 
issue unless the density is very low. 
 
 
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 00:20:20 -0400 (EDT) 
X-Sender: nexus@uky.campus.mci.net 
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net> 
Subject: Rengeration Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Does anyone have a system for derterming the length of time need to regrow 
limbs/organs for characters with rengeration? Any suggestions would be well 
appreciated,thanks. 
 
	Can God make a plot so twisted even he can't figure it out? 
			Tom Servo -MST 3K "The Island of Dr Fu Manchu"  
 
Posted-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:51:27 +0200 (MET DST) 
X-Authentication-Warning: james.stud.ntnu.no: leirbakk owned process doing -bs 
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:51:27 +0200 (MET DST) 
From: Jens-Arthur Leirbakk <leirbakk@stud.ntnu.no> 
Subject: Re: Rengeration Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Mon, 26 May 1997, Kim Foster wrote: 
 
> Does anyone have a system for derterming the length of time need to regrow 
> limbs/organs for characters with rengeration? Any suggestions would be well 
> appreciated,thanks. 
>  
> 	Can God make a plot so twisted even he can't figure it out? 
> 			Tom Servo -MST 3K "The Island of Dr Fu Manchu"  
 
Well, I'd perhaps guess something along these lines: First, figure out the 
maximum amount of Body that limb can take, based on the Body multiple in 
that area. For instance, I believe that an arm is .5. Thus, if a character 
has 30 Body, then that character's "arm body" is 15. Then, let's say that 
this number represents the number of months it takes for a character's 
limb to regrow (unless you want real 4-color, then you say weeks or days 
or whatever). Divide that on the Body/turn of the Regeneration power to 
find the total time needed to regrow that limb. Example: The character has 
a 4 Body Regeneration, and lost that arm. 15/4 is somewhat under 4 months, 
so it'll take 3 months and 3 weeks to completely regrow that arm. It is 
probable that the character will be able to actually use the arm in but a 
fraction of that time, but it will not be back to normal strength until 3 
months and 3 weeks have passed. If that seems long to you, then use weeks 
as your base time unit, or what have you. 
 
                 =============================================== 
                 =            Jens-Arthur Leirbakk             = 
                 =       e-mail: leirbakk@stud.ntnu.no         = 
                 = http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~leirbakk/index.html = 
                 =    Smash forehead on keyboard to continue   = 
                 =============================================== 
 
Subject: Re: Rengeration Question 
Date: Mon, 26 May 97 08:46:17 -0500 
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>>On Mon, 26 May 1997, Kim Foster wrote: 
> 
>> Does anyone have a system for derterming the length of time need to regrow 
>> limbs/organs for characters with rengeration? Any suggestions would be well 
>> appreciated,thanks. 
 
>On Mon, 26 May 1997, Jens-Arthur Leirbakk wrote: 
> 
>Well, I'd perhaps guess something along these lines: First, figure out the 
>maximum amount of Body that limb can take, based on the Body multiple in 
>that area. For instance, I believe that an arm is .5. Thus, if a character 
>has 30 Body, then that character's "arm body" is 15. Then, let's say that 
>this number represents the number of months it takes for a character's 
>limb to regrow (unless you want real 4-color, then you say weeks or days 
>or whatever). Divide that on the Body/turn of the Regeneration power to 
>find the total time needed to regrow that limb. Example: The character has 
>a 4 Body Regeneration, and lost that arm. 15/4 is somewhat under 4 months, 
>so it'll take 3 months and 3 weeks to completely regrow that arm. It is 
>probable that the character will be able to actually use the arm in but a 
>fraction of that time, but it will not be back to normal strength until 3 
>months and 3 weeks have passed. If that seems long to you, then use weeks 
>as your base time unit, or what have you. 
 
Another approach would be to simply slide the regeneration down to Body  
per  
day.  In the example above, that would allow the arm to grow back in a  
litle  
over four days.  For higher regens if would be faster and for (in my  
experience  
more common) slower regens it would take longer.  In any case, a  
regenerating  
character has their arm back in 16 days.  This seems about right for four  
color. 
About the highest regen I've ever seen actually used was 5/TURN, which  
would 
still require 3 days to recover (and considering the same character can  
recover 
from near fatal wounds, say -29 BODY, in just over 2 minutes) this still  
feels 
about right for a four color.  In Dark Champions, I'd probably say  
Jens-Arthur's 
approach works better.  Reguardless, depending on the special effect, it  
might 
be reasonable to allow for "reapplying the severed limb" assuming it  
wasn't  
destroyed, only lopped off, and allow normal regeneration to work. 
 
PAX. 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:50:59 -0500 (CDT) 
Posted-Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:50:59 -0500 (CDT) 
X-Sender: rvb@visi.com 
From: Rob <rvb@visi.com> 
Subject: Re: Regeneration 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
While I can appreciate the dramatic effect of slow regeneration of limbs, my 
own take on the issue is that the limb is restored as soon as all BODY taken 
in the injury that severed it is restored, unless the special effects or 
circumstances interfere. 
 
This is more satisfying to me that alternatives based on 'proportion of 
BODY'. After all, why should a character who loses an arm, having paid 
nothing for BODY, get it back in a third the time that an otherwise 
identical character, paying 40 points more for BODY, does? (To cite the 
example of the 30 BODY one-armed regenerator.) 
 
I suggest, if you need slower regeneration, just attribute it to 
circumstances, and set an arbitrary duration based on measures the character 
takes. Rest in bed attended by excellent caregivers being faster, trekking 
through disease-infested swamps slower. 
 
X-Sender: ctaylor@mailhost.cyberhighway.net 
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:33:59 -0700 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberhighway.net> 
Subject: Hughes Academy Game 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Okay, the game is full, thanks for everyone's submissions and suggestions. 
I have the following information from each player, for those of you without 
a full character and a background please get those to me soon, I would like 
to get started by next Monday (June 1). 
 
Anthony MacElroy --- character 
John Jerles --- character and background 
Rafael Sant'Anna --- character and background 
Razor Sharp --- character outline 
Captain Spith --- character and background 
jnealis (sorry, I neglected to write your name down) --- letter of intent 
Will Austin --- character and background 
Alex Rojas --- character 
Bryce --- character and background 
Carolyn Vaughan --- character and background 
flacksd@evron.com (sorry, I neglected to write your name down) --- character 
MartinTucker --- Letter of Intent 
 
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 23:31:56 -0400 (EDT) 
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net 
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins) 
Subject: Re: Active Costs 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 3 
 
>why not just ignore the llimits?? i tend to think any active points limint 
is stupid . .  
>. what's the difference between 60 and 63? 
 
Last time I looked, it was 3. :-) I've always thought of the 'active point 
limit' as more of a guideline. Especially with very heavily advantaged 
powers, where the difference between 3D6 of effect and 4D6 of effect can 
mean 15-20 points. So you either allow a 70 point power or force the PC to 
take a 50 point power - heck, give him the 70 pointer. 'Raw' powers, 
however, should adhere more closely to the AP limit. 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
"All right, all right! I'll sit on your crummy lap! Anything!! Just stop 
disintigrating me!!" 
-Gold Digger 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
John D. Prins 
jprins@interhop.net 
 
 
 
From: HoosierJA@aol.com 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 02:57:41 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Recoveries 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 5 
 
Okay, 
 
A fellow Champions GM and friend of mine just ran a strange idea past me.  He 
has abolished the post segment 12 recovery in his combats.  He says "If you 
want a recovery, you gotta take one.  I'm not handing you one on a silver 
platter"  (or words to that effect).  He claims it greatly speeds up his 
combats and does not change the feel of the game. 
 
I'm intrigued.  I'm not running a game right now and have had no opportunity 
to give it a whirl.  Have any of you out there tried this or anything 
similar?  And if so, what are your thoughts?  Heck, even if you haven't tried 
it what are your thoughts? 
 
Jay A 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 01:55:03 -0600 
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net> 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 6 
 
HoosierJA@aol.com wrote: 
>  
> Okay, 
>  
> A fellow Champions GM and friend of mine just ran a strange idea past me.  He 
> has abolished the post segment 12 recovery in his combats.  He says "If you 
> want a recovery, you gotta take one.  I'm not handing you one on a silver 
> platter"  (or words to that effect).  He claims it greatly speeds up his 
> combats and does not change the feel of the game. 
>  
> I'm intrigued.  I'm not running a game right now and have had no opportunity 
> to give it a whirl.  Have any of you out there tried this or anything 
> similar?  And if so, what are your thoughts?  Heck, even if you haven't tried 
> it what are your thoughts? 
>  
> Jay A 
 
I personally thing it would shift the balance of power off. Bricks (for 
instance) usually have low speeds and high recoveries. Without a post 
12, they wouldn't be able to absorb damage anywhere near as well. A 
speedster or High speed MA could afford to blow a phase to recover, but 
the low speed bricks couldn't.  
 
End use could also get to be a problem. 
 
This kind of rule could work well for a dark Champs, but I don't think 
it would fly well in a Four color.  
 
All the previous is IMHO, of course. 
 
 
A question of my own, while on the subject. When we had a player that 
came in from another campaign (ie we didn't teach him) we found a 
differance of style, with no real basis for doing things whichever way; 
to wit: Post 12's in our game were for Stun/End recoveries only. The way 
his group had always run it, that if you get stunned in 12, your post 12 
goes to recovering from being stunned, and thus doesn't help end/stun. 
Does any of the list at large do this?  
 
We don't have difficuties here because of the differance (we are adults 
after all) but are curious as to how others do it. 
 
--  
-Mhoram 
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your 
 two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright 
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain: 
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 04:16:22 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Wayne J Shaw <shaw@IDT.NET> 
X-Sender: shaw@u3.farm.idt.net 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 7 
 
 
 
On Tue, 27 May 1997 HoosierJA@aol.com wrote: 
 
> Okay, 
>  
> A fellow Champions GM and friend of mine just ran a strange idea past me.  He 
> has abolished the post segment 12 recovery in his combats.  He says "If you 
> want a recovery, you gotta take one.  I'm not handing you one on a silver 
> platter"  (or words to that effect).  He claims it greatly speeds up his 
> combats and does not change the feel of the game. 
>  
> I'm intrigued.  I'm not running a game right now and have had no opportunity 
> to give it a whirl.  Have any of you out there tried this or anything 
> similar?  And if so, what are your thoughts?  Heck, even if you haven't tried 
> it what are your thoughts? 
 
Well, it'll certainly do that.  But it also overly rewards a high 
movement, high speed person, who can afford to duck around a corner and 
recover, while his lesser bretheren can't.  And it makes it impossible to 
fly long distances unless your flight is at 0 END. 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 04:44:47 -0500 (EST) 
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net> 
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7 
Reply-To: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 8 
 
> A fellow Champions GM and friend of mine just ran a strange idea past 
me.  He 
> has abolished the post segment 12 recovery in his combats.  He says "If you 
> want a recovery, you gotta take one.  I'm not handing you one on a silver 
> platter"  (or words to that effect).  He claims it greatly speeds up his 
> combats and does not change the feel of the game. 
 
I'm sure it would speed up combat, but at least with the groups I'm in it 
would change the feel of the game.  Like Hobbes 'State of Nature' combats 
woudl become nasty, brutish and short.  0 End powers and aids will be 
more common. 
 
>  
> I'm intrigued.  I'm not running a game right now and have had no opportunity 
> to give it a whirl.  Have any of you out there tried this or anything 
> similar?  And if so, what are your thoughts?  Heck, even if you haven't tried 
> it what are your thoughts? 
 
One thing the group I'm with does that helps.  WE start combat at the top 
of a turn, not on 12.  Starting on 12 gives everyone a chance to push an 
attack, then recover from their damage and end.  It's almost a wasted 
round.  By starting either on the first phase someone goes on (me)  
 or having a 'start of combat' phase then starting with the first phase, 
combat seems to go a little quicker.  Just my thoughts. 
 
TokyoMark 
 
From: Chuff78002@aol.com 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 06:15:54 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: In case anyone's interested..... 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 9 
 
Hi, 
Look, I know that this is the hero mailer, but I'd thought I'd offer out an 
invitation anyway.  If anyone wishes to join an AD&D PBEM set in my own 
version of the Forgotten Realms please e-mail direct rather than to the list 
thankyou. 
lurkers are more than welcome. 
Thanx 
Chuff78002. 
 
From: Chuff78002@aol.com 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 06:15:55 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Uthden Troll...watch this space ! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 10 
 
Sorry about the delays folks, but things have gotten hectic over here and The 
Uthden Troll mtg/fh conversion has been put on the back burner for a while, 
however i'm almost ready to compile the data and it should be posted real 
soon ! 
 
WATCH THIS SPACE !!!!! 
 
Chuff78002. 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 05:45:55 -0500 
From: Jon Knutson <waffyjon@execpc.com> 
Reply-To: waffyjon@execpc.com 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 12 
 
Curtis Gibson wrote: 
>  
 
> A question of my own, while on the subject. When we had a player that 
> came in from another campaign (ie we didn't teach him) we found a 
> differance of style, with no real basis for doing things whichever way; 
> to wit: Post 12's in our game were for Stun/End recoveries only. The way 
> his group had always run it, that if you get stunned in 12, your post 12 
> goes to recovering from being stunned, and thus doesn't help end/stun. 
> Does any of the list at large do this? 
>  
> We don't have difficuties here because of the differance (we are adults 
> after all) but are curious as to how others do it. 
>  
In my old gaming group in Washington, we'd make it an option; anyone 
stunned on Phase 12 could either use their post-12 to recover STUN and 
END, or to recover from being stunned.  If they used it to recover 
stun/end, they'd still need to use their next phase to recover from 
being stunned.  It worked rather well for us. 
 
Jon 
 
X-Sender: jrc@pop1.nai.net 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 06:30:40 -0500 
From: "Joe Claffey Jr." <jrc@mail1.nai.net> 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 11 
 
Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net> wrote, 
>to wit: Post 12's in our game were for Stun/End recoveries only. The way 
>his group had always run it, that if you get stunned in 12, your post 12 
>goes to recovering from being stunned, and thus doesn't help end/stun. 
>Does any of the list at large do this? 
 
 Yeah, that's how my friends and I do it. It doesn't seem to throw anything 
out of balance. 
 
 We also play that if you get stunned before your DEX count, you recover 
from being stunned that phase but lose your action. I don't know if that's 
standard or not. 
 
  Joe Claffey               | "In the end, everything is a gag." 
  jrc@ct1.nai.net           |               - Charlie Chaplin 
 
 
X-Sender: avery1@pop.flash.net 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:57:52 
From: John Turner <Avery1@flash.net> 
Subject: Re: Active Costs 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 12:42 PM 5/27/97 -0700, michael wrote: 
>John P. Weatherman wrote: 
>>  
>> Has anyone else noticed that while Hero suggests things 
>> like a 60 Active Point limit for attack powers of beginning 
>> characters, they also create their "standard" weapondry at 
>> closer to 100 Active Points? BLAH BLAH BLAH 
>> PAX 
> 
>why not just ignore the llimits?? i tend to think any active points limint 
is stupid . .  
>. what's the difference between 60 and 63? 
> 
 
that would be 3.  :P 
 
X-Sender: avery1@pop.flash.net 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:17:29 
From: John Turner <Avery1@flash.net> 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 04:44 AM 5/27/97 -0500, Tokyo Mark wrote: 
>One thing the group I'm with does that helps.  WE start combat at the top 
>of a turn, not on 12.  Starting on 12 gives everyone a chance to push an 
>attack, then recover from their damage and end.  It's almost a wasted 
>round.  By starting either on the first phase someone goes on (me)  
> or having a 'start of combat' phase then starting with the first phase, 
>combat seems to go a little quicker.  Just my thoughts. 
> 
>TokyoMark 
 
The group I play with start combat on 12, but we never let anyone push an 
attack at this time.  I really hate the pushing rules, they are too often 
abused.  We had one player that would try to push everytime he attacked, 
because he figured he could mathematically risk the END.  This made me 
institute a rule that I, as GM, have total control of when the players can 
push.  I can understand if a character wants to boost a power with xps and 
pushes the attack everytime for a while (while he is building up the xps to 
increase the points in the power).  The players have since learned that 
pushing is to be used only in extreme cases, not on every phase. 
 
 
 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:40:07 -0400 (EDT) 
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu> 
Reply-To: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu> 
Subject: subscription 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
		Sorry to take up bandwidth like this, but I sent in my 
re-subscription request over a week ago (to hero-request@omg.org) and 
haven't recieved any mail.  Does it usually take this long, or do I have 
the wrong address?   
 
Thanks for any help you can provide, 
 
	          William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu 
	          http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html 
	   "I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive." 
		    -The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster 
 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:42:29 -0700 
From: michael <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Active Costs 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 1 
 
John P. Weatherman wrote: 
>  
> Has anyone else noticed that while Hero suggests things 
> like a 60 Active Point limit for attack powers of beginning 
> characters, they also create their "standard" weapondry at 
> closer to 100 Active Points?  I'm refering in particular to 
> CyberHero which is my best available Hero source for 
> technotoys. Does anyone have any house rules for allowing 
> heros to use the more powerful standard weapons that hero 
> releases?  In particular, many of my character concepts have 
> military backgrounds, so it gets quite frustrating to be 
> unable to build military grade gear that's usable. 
>  
> PAX 
 
why not just ignore the llimits?? i tend to think any active points limint is stupid . .  
. what's the difference between 60 and 63? 
 
 
>  
> ____________________________________________________________________ 
> | Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             | 
>  
> | email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
> | fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
> |_____________________________|____________________________________| 
> | He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
> | life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
> | the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
> | bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
> | He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
> |                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
> |__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:45:13 -0700 
From: michael <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Rengeration Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 2 
 
I do organ damage as a plot concept, and use a ten point 'bonus' body cost for a normal 
organ/limb/bit. Also you could try a bonus cost as a function of total body. 
 
 
 
Kim Foster wrote: 
>  
> Does anyone have a system for derterming the length of time need to regrow 
> limbs/organs for characters with rengeration? Any suggestions would be well 
> appreciated,thanks. 
>  
>         Can God make a plot so twisted even he can't figure it out? 
>                         Tom Servo -MST 3K "The Island of Dr Fu Manchu" 
 
From: dobrien@e-mail.com 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:10:58 EDT 
X-Sender-Info: Dennis L. O'Brien                               Class: Internal 
               Consulting Systems Engineer 
               VM Systems Software 15863            (510) 675-5594 
Subject: Pacificon moved? 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
The Dunfey Hotel told me today that they have been sold, and will be             
closed for renovations from 11 June to "sometime in November".  Pacificon        
will not be held at the Dunfey.                                                  
 
Has anyone heard anything on where Pacificon will be held, or if it will         
be held?                                                                         
 
                                             Dennis                              
 
A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the              
support of Paul.  -- George Bernard Shaw                                         
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:21:46 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 02:39 PM 5/24/97 -0500, Todd Hanson wrote: 
>> surrender, try to escape, or bring in some deus ex machina.  If the PCs are 
>> on the losing end of a combat that's getting boring besides, have a more 
>> powerful force show up to save their bacon (giving thanks for "keeping these 
>> guys busy until we got here," of course, just to make them feel useful). 
> 
> 
>This is one thing I would definately disagree with.  As a PC it would 
>leave me feeling like I had wasted my time if I had just fought for my 
>life against the aliens, only to have the big guns show up to bail me 
>out.  I would be left with the 'why bother' attitude. 
 
   That's a little different than what I was talking about.  The mechanics 
of what I was saying would be the same, except that afterward the big guns 
tell the PCs, "Boy, it's a good thing you guys were here to slow these guys 
down, or the whole world would've been toast!"  Admittedly, that's not as 
satisfying as stopping the Evil One on your own, but it still can give a 
sense of having made a vital contribution. 
 
>Instead, make the aliens seem unbeatable, but leave a method (or more 
>than one) where the PCs can discover a method to turn the tide of the 
>battle, kind along the lines of how in Independance Day they discovered 
>how to turn off the force fields of the alien ships (although I would go 
>for something a little more believable) 
> 
>Let the PCs discover some alien technology that enhances their own 
>powers - giving them additional firepower and defenses.  It doesnt have 
>to be much - adding 2 to 4 dice to a standard attack makes it a really 
>nasty attack.. add a 10/10 force field to their defenses and an alien 
>gun that would have stunned them before is no more than a nuisance. Let 
>the PCs feel like they defeated the aliens on their own by outsmarting 
>them.  Of course, make the technology run off of an alien power source 
>so you can get rid of it after this scenario...  
 
   This is good advice for overall plotting.  (Very good, in fact.)  I was 
addressing what can be done when an individual encounter bogs down. 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:21:54 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: real world martial art 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 03:21 PM 5/24/97 +1000, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote: 
>>Pardon me, but there are no "kido" styles.  There are "do" styles and 
>>"jutsu" styles, corresponding to "way" and "art".  Aikijutsu is "the art of 
>>Aiki" and Aikido is "the way of Aiki".  The forms are similar, but "do" 
>>styles encompass a philosophy: they are a way of life, whereas "jutsu" 
>>forms tend to concentrate on the martial (combat) aspects: they are an art 
>>of combat. 
> 
>hapKIDO!! aiKIDO!!  And your literal interpretations were valid about 100 
years ago, and no longer. 
 
   Try hapkiDO and aikiDO (as per a very clear interpretation of the Korean 
language originals that Rat gave you). 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:21:59 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Rengeration Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 12:20 AM 5/26/97 -0400, Kim Foster wrote: 
>Does anyone have a system for derterming the length of time need to regrow 
>limbs/organs for characters with rengeration? Any suggestions would be well 
>appreciated,thanks. 
 
   I don't think that Regeneration (or any other "enhancement Power") is 
able to regrow limbs, at least in the official rules. 
   In my own games, I allow "Can Regrow Limbs" as a +1/2 Advantage to 
[healing] Aid, Regeneration, and Transfer, and the REC Characteristic.  In 
this case, the amount of BODY needed to regrow a limb is equal to the amount 
that it took to cut it off in the first place. 
   And for the curious:  yes, if a character with Transfer that Can Regrow 
Limbs uses that Power on someone else, the other person does lose the limb, 
but only for the duration that the Transfer lasts (and none of the 
applications of this Advantage will work if the person with the Power never 
had the limb in question to begin with). 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:03:34 -0700 
From: "HAPPYELF!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Active Costs 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
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John and Ron Prins wrote: 
>  
> >why not just ignore the llimits?? i tend to think any active points limint 
> is stupid . . 
> >. what's the difference between 60 and 63? 
>  
> Last time I looked, it was 3. :-) I've always thought of the 'active point 
> limit' as more of a guideline. Especially with very heavily advantaged 
> powers, where the difference between 3D6 of effect and 4D6 of effect can 
> mean 15-20 points. So you either allow a 70 point power or force the PC to 
> take a 50 point power - heck, give him the 70 pointer. 'Raw' powers, 
> however, should adhere more closely to the AP limit. 
>  
 
 
i agree! however, i would still like to abolish the whole idea, or put it all in  
gm-campagn control . . . 
 
From: DocTough@aol.com 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:23:30 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Doc sez... 
 
     Speeds up combat, eh?... Not surprised, characters must be getting 
exhausted  and knocked out sooner.  Does your friend mention if there's been 
an increase in the  number of characters that have tried to purchase reduced 
END on their STR and other powers? 
 
Doc  Tough 
 
From: HoosierJA@aol.com 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:43:48 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 1 
 
In a message dated 97-05-27 17:46:33 EDT, bob.greenwade@klock.com (Bob 
Greenwade) writes: 
 
> >This is one thing I would definately disagree with.  As a PC it would 
>  >leave me feeling like I had wasted my time if I had just fought for my 
>  >life against the aliens, only to have the big guns show up to bail me 
>  >out.  I would be left with the 'why bother' attitude. 
>   
>     That's a little different than what I was talking about.  The mechanics 
>  of what I was saying would be the same, except that afterward the big guns 
>  tell the PCs, "Boy, it's a good thing you guys were here to slow these 
guys 
>  down, or the whole world would've been toast!"  Admittedly, that's not as 
>  satisfying as stopping the Evil One on your own, but it still can give a 
>  sense of having made a vital contribution. 
 
I would think that the "Queen Bee" motif would be the best for player 
satisfaction.  Not to mention that fact that it's easier to fight smaller 
combats.  Let the NPCs defend the white house (perhaps with a little help 
from our heros).  It's the PCs job to infiltrate, get in there and destroy 
the queen mother, or the main computer, or whatever you can think of.  Or 
maybe even just talk 'em out of attacking...thats always fun.  Or maybe 
just...... 
 
You get my point.  As many Earthlings as you want can stave off individual 
attacks.  Even win battles against incredible odds.  But the PCs should be 
the ones to eventually save the world.  Unless you don't want the world 
saved, that could be fun too. 
 
Jay A 
 
Comments: Authenticated sender is <aeverett@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> 
From: "Al Everett" <aeverett@worldnet.att.net> 
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:10:53 -0500 
Subject: Re: Recoveries 
Reply-to: aeverett@worldnet.att.net 
Priority: normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On 27 May 97 at 7:55, Curtis Gibson wrote: 
> A question of my own, while on the subject. When we had a player 
> that came in from another campaign (ie we didn't teach him) we found 
> a differance of style, with no real basis for doing things whichever 
> way; to wit: Post 12's in our game were for Stun/End recoveries 
> only. The way his group had always run it, that if you get stunned 
> in 12, your post 12 goes to recovering from being stunned, and thus 
> doesn't help end/stun. Does any of the list at large do this?  
 
My group has traditionally done it this way, more from ignorance than  
anything else. To our way of thinking, whether you recover from being  
stunned and then recover END/STUN or recover END/STUN then recover  
from being stunned, the end result is the same. 
Never seemed to unbalance anything. 
 
 
-- 
Al Everett                |  "Work is the curse of the drinking 
aeverett@worldnet.att.net |    classes"  - Rev William A Spooner 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 02:49:53 -0500 (EST) 
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net> 
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: How many d6 does a papae 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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> Terminal velocity intrudes. An object's terminal velocity depends on its 
> density and shape. The paper airplane simply can't go fast enough to do the 
> full STR damage of a normal person. (More precisely, the airplane dece- 
> lerates immediately when it leaves the thrower's hand.) 
>  
> In game terms, I would set an upper limit on the thrown damage that any 
> object can generate. Anyone can probably do full damage with dense metal 
> objects. Bricks will hit a limit with objects of density less than, oh, 3, 
> and everyone else will be limited with objects less dense than water (1.0). 
>  
> I don't want to assign exact numbers, though; it's really not an important 
> issue unless the density is very low. 
 
I believe there is a section in the book where it states that the damage 
of an object can't be more then def+body of the object.  It's been a long 
time since I bothered to look this up so it might simply apply to a past 
edition, but it seems a reasonable way to handle it. 
 
TokyoMark 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 07:58:08 -0700 
From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net> 
Reply-To: tstatler@igateway.net 
Subject: Re: Some effects I am working on 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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X-UID: 1 
 
Charles T. Badger wrote: 
>  
> At 11:50 05/28/97 -0400, Patrick Barden wrote: 
> >Have a couple of effects I am trying to duplicate. 
> > 
> >1)  I want to create directed explosions.  The attacks would be similar to 
> >an explosion except that the area of the effect would be either a line or a 
> >cone.  
>  
> since the radius advantage is +1 advantage and gives the same distance as a 
> explosion with the explosion giving less damage to the outer area and also 
> being a +1/2 advantage you could use those two facts to build the other area 
> effect cone and line and use the same distance they would and divide the 
> decrease over even  increments. 
 
A good use of the AE:Explosive Cone (+1/2) advantage is in modelling a 
shotgun blast.  
 
Tim Statler 
 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:50:13 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: Some effects I am working on 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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Have a couple of effects I am trying to duplicate. 
 
1)  I want to create directed explosions.  The attacks would be similar to 
an explosion except that the area of the effect would be either a line or a 
cone.  Would this be a modification of the explosion advantage or the area 
effect advantage? 
 
2.)  I want to duplicate the effect of a healer who absorbs the damage he 
heals.  What level of disadvantage would you give for a power that costs 
STUN instead of or in addition to END.  The character is a NPC so I am not 
worried about the long term effects of such a power. 
 
TIA, TTFN 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
X-Sender: badger@badgerden.com 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 12:41:58 -0400 
From: badger@badgerden.com (Charles T. Badger) 
Subject: Re: Some effects I am working on 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
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At 11:50 05/28/97 -0400, Patrick Barden wrote: 
>Have a couple of effects I am trying to duplicate. 
> 
>1)  I want to create directed explosions.  The attacks would be similar to 
>an explosion except that the area of the effect would be either a line or a 
>cone.  Would this be a modification of the explosion advantage or the area 
>effect advantage? 
 
since the radius advantage is +1 advantage and gives the same distance as a 
explosion with the explosion giving less damage to the outer area and also 
being a +1/2 advantage you could use those two facts to build the other area 
effect cone and line and use the same distance they would and divide the 
decrease over even  increments. I don't have my book with  me currently but 
the distance is more or less based on dc in the base power.  
 
>2.)  I want to duplicate the effect of a healer who absorbs the damage he 
>heals.  What level of disadvantage would you give for a power that costs 
>STUN instead of or in addition to END.  The character is a NPC so I am not 
>worried about the long term effects of such a power. 
 
I saw one where the aid with feedback is a -1 limitation that does the same 
amount of body to the user as he/she heals. Transfer would be similar to but 
instead of my transfer transfering points from you to me it would be me to 
you. that would be worth at least -1/2 limitation.  
----- 
Charles T. Badger 
President Badger Internet Services, Inc. 
http://www.badgerden.com 
vrml page 
http://vrml.badgerden.com 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 09:43:29 -0700 
From: Eric Langendorff <ericl@swiftmedia.com> 
Reply-To: ericl@swiftmedia.com 
Organization: AGT 
Subject: Re: Some effects I am working on 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 7 
 
Patrick Barden wrote: 
>  
> Have a couple of effects I am trying to duplicate. 
>  
> 1)  I want to create directed explosions.  The attacks would be similar to 
> an explosion except that the area of the effect would be either a line or a 
> cone.  Would this be a modification of the explosion advantage or the area 
> effect advantage? 
 
I'd say 1/4 to 1/2 less advantage: Explosive Degrade. 
 
> 2.)  I want to duplicate the effect of a healer who absorbs the damage he 
> heals.  What level of disadvantage would you give for a power that costs 
> STUN instead of or in addition to END.  The character is a NPC so I am not 
> worried about the long term effects of such a power. 
 
Transfer with a -0 SFX limitation: Only works in reverse. 
 
-Eric 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:07:14 -0700 
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com> 
Reply-To: icepirat@ix.netcom.com 
Subject: Re: Some effects I am working on 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 10 
 
Patrick Barden wrote: 
>  
> Have a couple of effects I am trying to duplicate. 
>  
> 1)  I want to create directed explosions.  The attacks would be similar to 
> an explosion except that the area of the effect would be either a line or a 
> cone.  Would this be a modification of the explosion advantage or the area 
> effect advantage? 
 
Work it like the area effect advantages.  The cone would act just like 
the radius effect in that -1d6 per 1".  The line I might automatically 
allow -1d6 per 2" since it's a lot easier to dive out of. 
I think the cone advantage was either Champs II or Champs 3. 
 
>  
> 2.)  I want to duplicate the effect of a healer who absorbs the damage he 
> heals.  What level of disadvantage would you give for a power that costs 
> STUN instead of or in addition to END.  The character is a NPC so I am not 
> worried about the long term effects of such a power. 
 
Side effect that always goes off. Without my books I couldn't say the 
the costs. probably -1. -2 if he doesn't have ready access to personal 
healing. 
 
-Mark 
 
Subject: Re: Some effects I am working on 
Date: Wed, 28 May 97 13:08:33 -0400 
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net 
From: "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
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On 5/28/97 11:50 AM, Patrick Barden (absga@elbertonga.com) Said: 
 
>1)  I want to create directed explosions.  The attacks would be similar to 
>an explosion except that the area of the effect would be either a line or a 
>cone.  Would this be a modification of the explosion advantage or the area 
>effect advantage? 
> 
I would probably do this as : 
  Energy Blast, AE:(Line or Cone), Reduced by Range 
 
>2.)  I want to duplicate the effect of a healer who absorbs the damage he 
>heals.  What level of disadvantage would you give for a power that costs 
>STUN instead of or in addition to END.  The character is a NPC so I am not 
>worried about the long term effects of such a power. 
 
I think this is spelled out in the HSR under Aid.... 
 
  .oooO        | 
  (   ) Oooo.  | David A. Fair 
   \ (  (   )  | SDS International 
    \_)  ) /   | dfair@sdslink.com 
        (_/    | 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:43:30 -0300 (ADT) 
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net> 
X-Sender: tbarrie@drollsden 
Subject: Re: Active Costs 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Tue, 27 May 1997, HAPPYELF!!!! wrote: 
 
> > Last time I looked, it was 3. :-) I've always thought of the 'active point 
> > limit' as more of a guideline. Especially with very heavily advantaged 
> > powers, where the difference between 3D6 of effect and 4D6 of effect can 
> > mean 15-20 points. So you either allow a 70 point power or force the PC to 
> > take a 50 point power - heck, give him the 70 pointer. 'Raw' powers, 
> > however, should adhere more closely to the AP limit. 
>  
> i agree! however, i would still like to abolish the whole idea, or put it 
> all in gm-campagn control . . . 
 
How do you mean? It's already entirely a GM campaign-control issue. 
 
 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:06:51 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Some effects I am working on 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 11:50 AM 5/28/97 -0400, Patrick Barden wrote: 
>Have a couple of effects I am trying to duplicate. 
> 
>1)  I want to create directed explosions.  The attacks would be similar to 
>an explosion except that the area of the effect would be either a line or a 
>cone.  Would this be a modification of the explosion advantage or the area 
>effect advantage? 
 
   Personally, for the cone effect, I would allow a "cone explosion," which 
only operates in a 60-degree cone but which loses damage at -1 DC/2", for 
the same +1/2 Advantage one already gets for Explosion.  Alternately, you 
could just use a regular Explosion, with a -1 Limitation (on the Advantage 
only) for a cone shape. 
   As for the line, I'd just use Area Effect: Line with a -1 Limitation (on 
the Advantage only) for the degradation. 
 
>2.)  I want to duplicate the effect of a healer who absorbs the damage he 
>heals.  What level of disadvantage would you give for a power that costs 
>STUN instead of or in addition to END.  The character is a NPC so I am not 
>worried about the long term effects of such a power. 
 
   Rather than do it this way ("Costs STUN as well as END"), give it a -1 
"Side Effects" Limitation (-1/2 if you use the 10 points/1d6 variant on 
Aid).  This ends up doing the same level of damage to the user as he heals. 
You can just rule by GM fiat that the damage the NPC takes is always 
identical to the amount he heals. 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: R Jacobs <rjacobs@radiks.net> 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:51:14 -0500 
Subject: Determining Limitations 
Newsgroups: october.hero 
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Hello All, 
 
Anybody have any good suggestions on how to determine the value of 
non-standard limitations?  I'm looking for a way to remove some of the 
subjectivity from the process (I realize that there is no way to make it 
totally objective, but some guidance would be beneficial). 
 
Rob 
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:08:17 -0500 
From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> 
Subject: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
A suggestion: Side Effects that always happen (as opposed to those that 
only happen on unsuccessful activation rolls) should not have to take 
a minimum of 30/60 active points.  It's limiting enough that they happen 
_every_ time the character activates the power. 
 
So, for example, the "Empathic Healing" mentioned earlier could simply 
be Aid/Healing with Side Effects: Damage (not Drain) equal to the Aid, 
for a limitation bonus of -1.  Since generic Damage (EB, whatever) is 
5 pts/d6, just like Aid, the total Active Points of Side Effect is 
exactly equal to the total Active Points of the Aid.  Requiring that 
the character take 12d6 damage for 3d6 of Aid would just be lame. 
 
  Donald 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:45:02 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: happyelf! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
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X-UID: 2 
 
 
>I would think that the "Queen Bee" motif would be the best for player 
>satisfaction.  Not to mention that fact that it's easier to fight smaller 
>combats.  Let the NPCs defend the white house (perhaps with a little help 
>from our heros).  It's the PCs job to infiltrate, get in there and destroy 
>the queen mother, or the main computer, or whatever you can think of.  Or 
>maybe even just talk 'em out of attacking...thats always fun.  Or maybe 
>just...... 
> 
>You get my point.  As many Earthlings as you want can stave off individual 
>attacks.  Even win battles against incredible odds.  But the PCs should be 
>the ones to eventually save the world.  Unless you don't want the world 
>saved, that could be fun too. 
> 
>Jay A 
> 
> 
how about "the heros are one of many who save the world?" or 
 
"the heros' strategist works dilligently with Dr Destroyer to formulate a  
defense plan, and all the world pulls it off?" or 
 
"during peace talks the heros give the aliens east hoboken, not mentioning  
Mechanon just took the joint over"   or  
 
"the world is saved by another alien race, who then tries to plunge the  
world into debt-slavery?"  or 
 
"the aliens are really running like crazy from something else, and move on as soon  
as the earth orbits out of their jetstream" or 
 
"the heros side with the aliens, and they turn out to be really wimpy" or 
 
"the battle rages on indefinitley, with the aliens holding everything outside 
of Mars, with teams of space-borne heros doing guerilla warfare within the asteroid belt" 
 
 
 
we can do WAY better than the old 'shoot de generator vent and it all go boom' 
, guys ..  . 
 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:53:05 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: happyelf! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Determining Limitations 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 3 
 
here's a very small guide: 
 
-1/4 anything not involved directly in the campaign, like an effect that you make up  
and the gm says "yeah, shure, whatever . ." 
 
-1/2 Something really involved with the character: like kryptonite or silver, something the character will see a lot of, within the plot of the setting(it not just a random thingie) 
 
 
 
At 04:51 PM 5/28/97 -0500, you wrote: 
> 
> 
>Hello All, 
> 
>Anybody have any good suggestions on how to determine the value of 
>non-standard limitations?  I'm looking for a way to remove some of the 
>subjectivity from the process (I realize that there is no way to make it 
>totally objective, but some guidance would be beneficial). 
> 
>Rob 
> 
> 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Determining Limitations 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 29 May 1997 13:14:36 -0400 
Lines: 30 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "RJ" == R Jacobs <rjacobs@radiks.net> writes: 
 
RJ> Anybody have any good suggestions on how to determine the value of 
RJ> non-standard limitations? 
 
Just as a baseline I look at the probabilities for Activation Roll success. 
A limitation that is restrictive about half the time (11-) is worth a -1, 
working up to a -2 for a limitation that is restrictive almost always (8-) 
and down to -1/4 for a limitation that is infrequently restrictive (15-). 
I then make a comparison between the new limitation and any existing but 
similar limitations, and adjust the bonus to fit within the existing 
structure. 
 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and 
                                    \ kept under refrigeration. 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 29 May 1997 13:20:27 -0400 
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X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "DT" == Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> writes: 
 
DT> A suggestion: Side Effects that always happen (as opposed to those that 
DT> only happen on unsuccessful activation rolls) should not have to take a 
DT> minimum of 30/60 active points.  It's limiting enough that they happen 
DT> _every_ time the character activates the power. 
 
Yeah, well, Side Effects is slightly broken in that it is less of a 
disadvantage to the character if the power has an Activation roll on it. 
So I figure that the Side Effects bonus is worth double (give or take) if 
there is no Activation roll on the power.  But that's just me. :) 
 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged 
                                    \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball. 
 
From: HoosierJA@aol.com 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:22:48 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
In a message dated 97-05-29 05:37:25 EDT, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
(happyelf!) writes: 
 
> how about "the heros are one of many who save the world?" or 
>   
>  "the heros' strategist works dilligently with Dr Destroyer to formulate a  
>  defense plan, and all the world pulls it off?" or 
>   
>  "during peace talks the heros give the aliens east hoboken, not mentioning 
 
>  Mechanon just took the joint over"   or  
>   
>  "the world is saved by another alien race, who then tries to plunge the  
>  world into debt-slavery?"  or 
>   
>  "the aliens are really running like crazy from something else, and move on 
 
> as soon  
>  as the earth orbits out of their jetstream" or 
>   
>  "the heros side with the aliens, and they turn out to be really wimpy" or 
>   
>  "the battle rages on indefinitley, with the aliens holding everything  
> outside 
>  of Mars, with teams of space-borne heros doing guerilla warfare within the 
 
> asteroid belt" 
>   
>   
>   
>  we can do WAY better than the old 'shoot de generator vent and it all go  
> boom' 
>  , guys ..  . 
 
All these ideas are wonderfull.  And if your players wouldn't feel cheated 
not being the ones who dealt the final blow then you should just run with it. 
 I backed the "queen bee" story line on the assumption that the invaders were 
bad guys who needed to be stopped.  If if turns out they *are* wimps or 
fleeing a greater terror (I like the fleeing especially) then of course the 
scene is different.  But if they are fleeing to earth then we have the 
pursuers to worry about. 
 
My players would love to team up  with Dr. Destroyer to thwart a global 
threat.  They would eat it up.  But if the good (?) Doctor got to be the one 
who finally finnished off the bad guys, I could not appologize enough to my 
players.   
 
It is also very possible that you want the invasion to change the face of 
your campaing.  Maybe they actualy are friendly and misunderstood.  Or maybe 
they do take control of Hoboken. 
 
There are an infinate number of ways to play it.  But if you want the 
invasion to be just one story arc out of many without altering too much the 
face of your world, then the invaders must be dealt with somehow, and you 
must consider the personality of your players and their team.  Would they 
mind merely fighting a few battles or holding up the rear while some other 
NPC heros took the glory? 
 
And of course the "Queen Bee" could be anything.  I did not mean to imply 
that the good guys burst in with guns (and EBs) blazing.  What I meant was 
that there should be one final and culminating Event that should make 
everything all better.  And that the PC heros should be behind (no...not 
behind...in front of) that Event. 
 
I should have been more exacting...less flippant in my original post. 
 
Jay A 
 
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:10:43 -0500 (CDT) 
Subject: Wrack power 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
The target of this power suffers from agonizing pain whenever he or she 
exerts himself (i.e. spends endurance) The damage is proportional to the 
degree of exertion.   How can this be bought ? 
 
I had thought about a continuous noncontrolled NND with the defense being 
not spending endurance, and the limitation that the damage is proportional 
to the amount of endurance the target spends.  Is this 'legal' ? 
Is there a more elegant way to do this ? 
 
(I originally came up with this idea when trying to make characters based 
on the different alien races in the game Cosmic Encounter.  Anybody else 
done this ? )  
 
Curt Hicks 
 
X-Sender: jrc@pop1.nai.net 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:22:30 -0500 
From: "Joe Claffey Jr." <jrc@mail1.nai.net> 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> wrote, 
>>>>>> "DT" == Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> writes: 
> 
>DT> A suggestion: Side Effects that always happen (as opposed to those that 
>DT> only happen on unsuccessful activation rolls) should not have to take a 
>DT> minimum of 30/60 active points.  It's limiting enough that they happen 
>DT> _every_ time the character activates the power. 
> 
>Yeah, well, Side Effects is slightly broken in that it is less of a 
>disadvantage to the character if the power has an Activation roll on it. 
>So I figure that the Side Effects bonus is worth double (give or take) if 
>there is no Activation roll on the power.  But that's just me. :) 
 
 One variation that I've been toying with is to require any Side Effect 
that is an attack power (EB, KA, etc) to include the NND and Does BODY 
advantages (+2 total). This makes Side Effects unpleasant, but not fatal 
(how many characters can take a 12d6 EB that bypasses their defenses?) 
 
  Joe Claffey               | "In the end, everything is a gag." 
  jrc@ct1.nai.net           |               - Charlie Chaplin 
 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:29:25 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Captain Trips 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
(Brace yourselves) 
 
CAPTAIN TRIPS 
(Dr. Marcus Aurelius Meadows / Mark Meadows) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Welcome to one of the most powerful aces in the Wildcards universe! 
Captain Trips (named after the late Jerry Garcia), has the ability to 
transform himself into a number of different forms, or 'friends'.  Each of 
these alternate personalities are potent aces in their own right, although 
that doesn't mean they will agree with what ever it is the good Captain is 
involved in. 
 
Mark Meadows is tall and very thin, standing 6'2" and weighing about 160 
lbs.  He has shoulder length hair and a goatee.  He is exceedingly 
intelligent and is probably the most brilliant biochemist in the world. 
He is also quite the burned-out hippie.  As Captain Trips, Mark wears (in 
effect) a purple and white Uncle Sam suit, complete with top hat and a 
flower in the button hole.  Each of his 'friends' however, looks very 
different.  It should be noted that Mark has assumed two other forms aside 
from the five mentioned here.  One is the Radical, a youthful 
blonde-haired man clad only in jeans and wearing a peace medallion.  The 
other was called Monster, stood something like 60' tall and was strong 
enough to toss around T-72 tanks (and reminded me greatly of the 
Overfiend...). 
 
Note: Mark is built on a 25 point base, and is presumed to be a 'normal', 
hence the point total for his INT score. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		10		0 
Dex		9		-3 
Con		11		2 
Body		10		0 
Int		28		26 
Ego		14		8 
Pre		10		0 
Com		10		0 
PD		3		1 
ED		2		0 
Spd		2		1 
Rec		4		0 
End		22		0 
Stun		21		0 
Char Total			35 
Power Total			29 
Total Cost			64 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
3	KS: 'Counter Culture' Rock 15- 
2	KS: Recreational Drugs 11- 
3	PS: Biochemist (INT) 15- 
1	PS: Shop Owner 8- 
3	SC: Biochemsitry 16- 
1	SC: Biology 11- 
3	SC: Chemistry 16- 
2	SC: Mathmatics 15- 
2	SC: Organic Chemistry 15- 
2	SC: Pharacology 15- 
3	Streetwise 11- 
1	Trading 8- 
3	Scientist  
 
Disadvantages 
25	Base 
5	DF: 'Hippie' dress and mannerisms 
15	DNPC: Sprout (incomp) 8- 
10	Psych: Generally lacking in common sense 
10	Psych: Shy, tries to avoid overt publicity 
 
(Captain Trips created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:31:30 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: CT (Aquarius) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
(How's this for a headache... a Multiform form that has Multiform...) 
 
AQUARIUS 
(Cetus Dauphin - human from) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Aquarius is a huge man, standing 6' tall and weighing 280 lbs.  He has 
grayish skin and is bald.  His primary power is the ability to turn into a 
20' long dolphin.  Aquarius is a somewhat unpleasant fellow, who doesn't 
like *any*Jland dwellers and has a particular distaste for people from 
whaling nations.  He can be talking into giving aid, but it will be only 
grudgingly. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		20		10 
Dex		9		-3 
Con		18		16 
Body		14		8 
Int		18		8 
Ego		14		8 
Pre		15		5 
Com		8		-1 
PD		8		4 
ED		5		1 
Spd		3		11 
Rec		8		0 
End		36		0 
Stun		33		0 
Char Total			67 
Power Total			33 
Total Cost			100 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
3	Swimming: +3" (5" total) 
5	Discriminatory Taste 
 
4	KS: Scuba 14- 
5	Navigation 14- 
6	SC: Marine Biology 16- 
1	TF: Scuba 
3	Lang: English (native), French 
6	CSL: +2 with Block, Dodge, Punch 
 
Disadvantages 
25	Base 
25	Berserk:JOcean Mammals harmed (14-/8-) 
5	Dependence: Water, 2d6/5 Minutes 
5	DF:JGrey skinned man 
10	Phys: No sense of smell 
20	Psych: Protective of aquatic mammals 
10	Psych: Hates land dwellers (esp Japanese, Norwegians and Soviets) 
 
(Aquarius created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:32:38 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: CT (Aquarius - dolphin) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
AQUARIUS 
(Cetus Dauphin - dolphin from) 
 
Designers Notes: 
This is Aquarius dolphin form. The size of an Orca (Killer Whale), in this 
form Aquarius can out swim anything else in the ocean.  His skin is 
virtually immune to bullets and harpoons, and he can sink a ship with his 
rostrum.  On top of that, Aquarius can call upon and control other 
ocean-going mammals, especially other whales. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		40		0 
Dex		18		24 
Con		30		40 
Body		35		38 
Int		18		8 
Ego		14		8 
Pre		20		10 
Com		10		0 
PD		8		6 
ED		8		2 
Spd		4		12 
Rec		8		0 
End		60		0 
Stun		55		0 
Char Total			148 
Power Total			330 
Total Cost			478 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
40	Growth:J6 Levels, 0 END, Persistant, Always On 
	+30 STR, +6 Body, +6 Stun, -6" KB, -3 DCV, +3 PER, 20' long, 
	12,800 lbs 
 
15	EC: Ocean Mammal (cetacean) control, Ocean Mammals only (-2) 
15	Mind Control:J12d6, 0 END 
15	Mind Scanning: 12d6, 0 END 
 
24	2d6 HKA, Reduced Penetration - bite, 3 END 
36	+8d6 HA, 0 END, Move Through attacks only (-1) 
60	Armor; +20 PD/ED 
10	+20 PD, only when performing a Move Through (-1) 
3	Life Support: High Pressure 
10	Life Support: No Need to Breath, 1 Recoverable Charge of 1 Hour 
-12"	-6" Running 
27	Swimming: +20" (22" total, 36" noncombat, 60 mph), 1/2 END, END 2 
15	Active Sonar 
9	Enhanced Perception +3 
6	Enhanced Percpetion: Taste +3 
22	Mind Link: Ocean Mammals (+5), Any distance (+5), 0 END 
20	Multiform: Cetus Dauphin, 100 Point total 
15	Universal Translator:J18-, Ocean Mammals only (-1) 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
5	Dependence: Water, 2d6/5 Minutes 
15	DF: Huge, 20' long dolphin 
15	Phys: No Fine Manipulaiton 
10	Phys: No Sense of Smell 
20	Psych: Protective of aquatic mammals 
10	Psych: Hates land dwellers (esp Japanese, Norwegians and Soviets) 
10	Vuln: Water-borne posions and gases:Jx2 Body 
 
 
(Aquarius created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:33:18 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: Char: CT (Cosmic Traveler) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
COSMIC TRAVELER 
(Damon Strange) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Cosmic Traveler stand 5'10" tall and weighs 145 lbs.  His costume consists 
of a tight-fighting body suit and a black hooded cloak that is lined with 
a glowing starfield.  Traveler's actual appearence is of a stoop 
shouldered man with a thin chest, arms and legs and a slight pot belly. 
Among his ace powers is the ability to change his shape, so he normally 
looks much more imposing.  Traveler has a number of powers, including 
Desoldification, Invisibility, Flight and a powerful will... He's also a 
total coward, and is prone to flee from any threatening situation. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		9		-1 
Dex		23		39 
Con		20		20 
Body		13		6 
Int		26		16 
Ego		40		60 
Pre		10		0 
Com		8		-1 
PD		4		2 
ED		4		0 
Spd		4		7 
Rec		6		0 
End		40		0 
Stun		28		0 
Char Total			148 
Power Total			229 
Total Cost			377 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
40	Desoldification, END 4 
40	Invisibility: Sight Group, No Fringe, 0 END, Linked to Desolid 
	(-1/2) 
13	Life Support: Self-contained breathing, Immune to Vaccum 
30	15" Flight, END 3 
2	Running: +1" (7" total) 
45	Shapeshift - anything of same mass, 0 END 
7	+10 PRE, Linked to Shapeshift 
3	+10 COM, Linked to Shapeshift 
9	Enhanced Perception: +3 
 
13	Acting 16- 
3	Lockpicking 14- 
13	Mimicry 16- 
5	Shadowing 12- 
3	Sleight of Hand 14- 
3	Stealth 14- 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
25	Psych: Total Coward 
15	Psych: Arrogant, egotistical snob 
10	Psych: Terrified of bugs and other crawly things 
20	Vuln: 2 x Effect from Fear-based PRE attacks 
207	Experience 
 
(Cosmic Traveler created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by 
Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:34:45 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: CT (Jumping Jack Flash) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
JUMPING JACK FLASH 
(John Jacob Flash) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Flash is a small man, standing 5'6" and weighing 135 lbs.  He has red 
hair, a handsome face and wears an orange bodysuit, open down to the 
navel, trimmed in red and yellow flames.  His ace powers include the 
ability create and control fire.  He can fire bolts of flame, create a 
flaming rope (that will not burn), fly and extinguish fires.  At times, 
he's been known to create and play flaming guitars. 
 
Note: JJ Flash totals 492 points and thus is the most expensive of the 
Captain's assorted forms.  This means that he's been saddled with the cost 
of the Multiform power.  Aquarius is considered the 'second' from is has a 
point cost of (total points/5).  All other forms have a point cost of 
(total/10). 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		20		10 
Dex		31		63 
Con		23		23 
Body		12		4 
Int		18		8 
Ego		18		16 
Pre		20		10 
Com		20		5 
PD		24		20 
ED		30		25 
Spd		5		9 
Rec		10		2 
End		60		7 
Stun		34		0 
Char Total			205 
Power Total			510 
Total Cost			715 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
30	EC: Pyrokinesis 
30	12d6 EB, END 6 
30	6d6 EB, AoE: Line (24"), END 6 
37	3d6 RKA, AP, END 7 
24	30 STR TK, 0 END, Affects all parts of target (-1/4) 
15	Damage Reduction: 3/4 Energy, Resistant, Vs fire only (-1) 
13	10d6 Dispell vs RKA, AoE: Radius (3"), 0 END, No Range, Vs natural 
	fires only (-2) 
30	30" Flight (60" noncombat), END 6 
 
15	6d6 Absorbtion vs Energy, to END, Fire attacks only (-1) 
27	Full Damage Resistance 
4	Running: +2" (8" total) 
 
3	Conversation 13- 
3	KS: Guitar 13- 
3	KS: Law 13- 
3	PS: Lawyer (INT) 13- 
3	PS: Play Guitar (DEX) 15- 
3	Seduction 13- 
6	CSL: +2 with Pyrokinesis EC 
8	CSL: +4 with Flight 
 
223	Multiform:JCaptain Trips (64 points), Cosmic Traveler (377 points) 
	Starshine (378 points), Moonchild (450 points), Aquarius (478 
	points) IIF: Little glass bottles (-1/4), Gestures (must open 
	bottle and swallow) (-1/4) 5 continuous charges of 1 Hour each 
	(+1/2) 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
15	Psych: Hates bullies and cruelty 
15	Psych: Impulsive and Reckless 
15	Psych: Womanizer 
10	Vuln: 1 1/2 x Body from Water Attacks 
20	Vuln: 2 x Stun from Water Attacks 
540	Experience 
 
(Jumping Jack Flash created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by 
Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:36:21 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: CT (Moonchild) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
(my favorite of the Captian's friends) 
 
MOONCHILD 
(Isis Moon) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Moonchild is a tall, exotic looking Asian beauty.  Standing 5'7", and 
weigh 120, she is graceful, with a well-muscled form and long black hair. 
She wears a skintight black costume, complete with gloves and boots.  On 
her chest is black and white yin-yang symbol.  A similarly patterned 
half-mask covers her face.  A master martial artist, Moonchild is stronger 
than a normal human and *much* faster.  She is also able to make the dark 
her home, and can become invisible, as well as teleport amid the shadows. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		23		13 
Dex		36		78 
Con		20		20 
Body		14		8 
Int		18		8 
Ego		21		22 
Pre		20		10 
Com		22		6 
PD		20		15 
ED		10		6 
Spd		7		24 
Rec		10		2 
End		36		0 
Stun		36		0 
Char Total			212 
Power Total			238 
Total Cost			450 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
	MA: Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido 
4	Arm Sweep Block  +2 OCV  +2 DCV  Block, Abort 
5	Crescent Kick Block  +1 OCV  +3 DCV  Block, Abort 
4	Disarm  -1 OCV  +1 DCV  33 STR Disarm 
4	Dodge  +0 OCV  +5 DCV  Dodge vs All, Abort 
4	Escape  +0 OCV  +0 DCV  38 STR vs Grabs 
5	Flying Side Kick  +1 OCV  -2 DCV  8 1/2d6 Strike 
4	Front Kick  +01 OCV  +2 DCV  6 1/2d6 Strike 
3	Joint Lock  +0 OCV  -1 DCV  Grab One Limbs; 33 STR to Hold  
4	Punch / Elbow Strike  +2 OCV  +0 DCV  6 1/2d6 Strike 
5	Side / Roundhouse Kick  -2 OCV  +1 DCV  8 1/2d6 Strike 
3	Sweep  +2 OCV  -1 DCV  5 1/2d6 Strike; Target Falls 
3	Takedown  +1 OCV  +1 DCV  4 1/2d6 Strike; Target Falls 
3	Throw  +0 OCV  +1 DCV  4 1/2d6 Strike; Target Falls 
 
7	Damage Reduction: 1/4 Physical, vs Stun Only (-1/2) 
8	Damage Resistance: 10 PD/5 ED 
40	Invisibility: Sight Group, No Fringe, 0 END, Requires shadows or  
	darkness (-1/2) 
11	Mental Defense: 15 DEF 
10	Clinging: 23 STR 
8	Running: +4" (10" total), END 2 
15	Invisible Power Effects: Hearing, 0 END, on 10" Running 
13	Teleport: 10", Requires shadows or darkness (-1/2), END 2 
5	UV Vision 
6	1/2 END, STR 
 
3	Acrobatics 16- 
3	Breakfall 16- 
5	Combat Sense 14- 
10	Defense Maneuver (full) 
3	KS: Hapkido 13- 
3	KS: Tae Kwon Do 13- 
3	KS: Zen Philosophy 13- 
9	Shadowing 14- 
3	Stealth 16- 
13	Lang: English (3), French (3), Japanese (1 - literacy only), 
	Korean (0), Mandarin Chinese (3), Portuguese (3) 
3	Linguist 
6	CSL: +2 with Martial Arts 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
10	DF: Exotic beauty 
20	Psych: Cannot kill; cannot even cause serious harm to a human 
being 
15	Psych: Fatalistic and without fear 
10	Psych: Hates the South Korean governtment 
295	Experience 
 
(Moonchild created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:37:05 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: CT (Starshine) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
STARSHINE 
(Justin Bright) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Starshine is a huge imposing figure, well muscled, who stands 6'4" and 
weighs 234 lbs.  He has a solid, square jaw, green eyes and wavy, 
yellow-blond hair.  His costume consists of a yellow bodystocking with an 
orange sunburst on the chest, and green trunks, gloves and folded over 
boots.  His powers are the manipulation of light itself, allowing him to 
generate bolts of pure light energy, create a protective field, exist in 
space and transform himself into a beam of light.  He is very arrogant, 
and opinionated and will quite gladly lecture *anyone* on the evils of 
*Everything*. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		40		30 
Dex		18		24 
Con		23		26 
Body		13		6 
Int		18		8 
Ego		18		16 
Pre		23		13 
Com		24		7 
PD		8		0 
ED		8		3 
Spd		5		22 
Rec		14		2 
End		46		0 
Stun		45		0 
Char Total			157 
Power Total			221 
Total Cost			378 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
30	EC: Light Control 
30	12d6 EB, END 6 
32	25 DEF Force Field, 1/2 END, END 3 
24	Teleport: 30", Line of sight targets only and not through smoke, 
	tinted glass etc (-1/4), END 6 
24	Teleport: 5", x2048 noncombat (10240"), Line of sight targets only 
	and not through smoke, tinted glass etc (-1/4), END 1 
 
20	8d6 Absorbtion vs Energy, to END, Visible light attacks only (-1) 
30	Full Life Support 
10	FTL: 1 light year a year 
4	KS: Literature 
1	KS: Poetry 8- 
3	Oratory 14- 
3	Persuasion 14- 
4	CSL: +2 OCV with EB 
6	CSL: +2 with Block, Haymaker, Punch 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
10	DF: Large, muscular Adonis figure 
15	Psych: Dislike of 'bad elements' 
20	Psych: Must pontificate before any confrontation 
15	Psych: Stubborn and *very* opinionated 
218	Experience 
 
(Starshine created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:05:30 -0700 (PDT) 
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> 
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> 
Subject: Re: Wrack power 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Curt Hicks writes: 
>  
>  
> The target of this power suffers from agonizing pain whenever he or she 
> exerts himself (i.e. spends endurance) The damage is proportional to the 
> degree of exertion.   How can this be bought ? 
 
Reduce target's endurance to zero (via drain or suppress).  Target now has to 
burn stun to spend endurance. 
>  
> I had thought about a continuous noncontrolled NND with the defense being 
> not spending endurance, and the limitation that the damage is proportional 
> to the amount of endurance the target spends.  Is this 'legal' ? 
As a rule, no (definition of legal defense for NND is somewhat unclear). 
 
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 20:22:53 -0400 
From: Dave Thompson <ezadd@bconnex.net> 
Organization: Blackeagle/Blackeagle Canada 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
HoosierJA@aol.com wrote: 
>  
> My players would love to team up  with Dr. Destroyer to thwart a global 
> threat.  They would eat it up.  But if the good (?) Doctor got to be the one 
> who finally finnished off the bad guys, I could not appologize enough to my 
> players. 
 
	Ah..but what if the Doctor did finish the big baddie off and left the 
heroes without pummelling their remains into the turf? How would they 
feel next time they had to go off and try to stop him?? Just a thought 
 
Dave 
 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Date: Thu, 29 May 97 22:09:55 -0500 
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 1 
 
Joe Claffey Jr. 
 
>Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> wrote, 
>>>>> "DT" == Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> writes: 
>> 
>>DT> A suggestion: Side Effects that always happen (as opposed to those that 
>>DT> only happen on unsuccessful activation rolls) should not have to take a 
>>DT> minimum of 30/60 active points.  It's limiting enough that they happen 
>>DT> _every_ time the character activates the power. 
>> 
>>Yeah, well, Side Effects is slightly broken in that it is less of a 
>>disadvantage to the character if the power has an Activation roll on it. 
>>So I figure that the Side Effects bonus is worth double (give or take) if 
>>there is no Activation roll on the power.  But that's just me. :) 
> 
> One variation that I've been toying with is to require any Side Effect 
>that is an attack power (EB, KA, etc) to include the NND and Does BODY 
>advantages (+2 total). This makes Side Effects unpleasant, but not fatal 
>(how many characters can take a 12d6 EB that bypasses their defenses?) 
 
Does Body on a NND should be a +2 advantage for a total of +3 total.  I'm 
basing that on NND on Killing attacks (used in poison rules) being a +2 
advantage.  It's probably an arguable position though. 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 13:10:39 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: happyelf! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 3 
 
 
> 
>All these ideas are wonderfull.  And if your players wouldn't feel cheated 
>not being the ones who dealt the final blow then you should just run with it. 
> I backed the "queen bee" story line on the assumption that the invaders were 
>bad guys who needed to be stopped.  If if turns out they *are* wimps or 
>fleeing a greater terror (I like the fleeing especially) then of course the 
>scene is different.  But if they are fleeing to earth then we have the 
>pursuers to worry about. 
> 
>My players would love to team up  with Dr. Destroyer to thwart a global 
>threat.  They would eat it up.  But if the good (?) Doctor got to be the one 
>who finally finnished off the bad guys, I could not appologize enough to my 
>players.   
> 
 
in one of my campagns, the invasion started with the aliens oblitering all the toughest villans. Maybe Dr destroyer in a wheel-chair? 
 
 
 
>It is also very possible that you want the invasion to change the face of 
>your campaing.  Maybe they actualy are friendly and misunderstood.  Or maybe 
>they do take control of Hoboken. 
> 
 
In my opinion any 'campagn arc' should change the campagn. just my opinion, is all. 
 
 
>There are an infinate number of ways to play it.  But if you want the 
>invasion to be just one story arc out of many without altering too much the 
>face of your world, then the invaders must be dealt with somehow, and you 
>must consider the personality of your players and their team.  Would they 
>mind merely fighting a few battles or holding up the rear while some other 
>NPC heros took the glory? 
> 
 
 
but what if the 'rear-guard' ended up being the important battle? 
anyone else see the premiere of "Space: Above and Beyond"? 
 
 
 
 
>And of course the "Queen Bee" could be anything.  I did not mean to imply 
>that the good guys burst in with guns (and EBs) blazing.  What I meant was 
>that there should be one final and culminating Event that should make 
>everything all better.  And that the PC heros should be behind (no...not 
>behind...in front of) that Event. 
> 
 
this i have to disagree with. One event is an oversimplification, IMHO. 
 
>I should have been more exacting...less flippant in my original post. 
> 
be as flippant as you want. I condone flippancy. MORE FLIPPANCY ON CHAMP-L!!!  
I am just a bit leery of the 'star trek' type plots, is  
all. 
 
 
 
>Jay A 
> 
 
Subject: Re: Wrack power 
Date: Thu, 29 May 97 22:20:43 -0500 
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
cc: <champ-l@omg.org> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 2 
 
Anthony Jackson 
 
>Curt Hicks writes: 
>> I had thought about a continuous noncontrolled NND with the defense being 
>> not spending endurance, and the limitation that the damage is proportional 
>> to the amount of endurance the target spends.  Is this 'legal' ? 
>As a rule, no (definition of legal defense for NND is somewhat unclear). 
 
NND only calls for something reasonably common that can turn the power  
off. 
So if the defence is not spending END, that qualifies.  However, if a  
target 
stops burning END for 1 phase in that case, the wrack is cancelled and  
the  
target can then expend END again with no further ill effects. 
 
>> The target of this power suffers from agonizing pain whenever he or she 
>> exerts himself (i.e. spends endurance) The damage is proportional to the 
>> degree of exertion.   How can this be bought ? 
> 
>Reduce target's endurance to zero (via drain or suppress).  Target now has to 
>burn stun to spend endurance. 
 
Try a continuous uncontrolled EGO Blast with the limitation, dice applied  
proportional to END spent.  The limitation would be up to the GM, but I'd  
call it a -1/2 or so.  You could also use the Cumulative (+1/2) advantage  
off of transform.  Then the attack should eventually overwhelm any  
defences 
the target has assuming they continue to expend end. 
 
A word of warning...No END Continuous Uncontrolled Cumulative is NOT a  
good 
idea.  It evenually puts a target into a coma with little to nothing that 
can be done about it.  My GM did this with a SPE drain, needless to say no 
one was comfortable about it.  If you do do something like this, make  
sure  
to require some method of stopping it, whether its a mind control from a 
friendly to set things right or some drug or something. 
 
PAX 
 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:12:59 -0400 
X-Sender: arsenal@pop.iquest.net 
From: Tony Satterthwaite <arsenal@iquest.net> 
Subject: Top Ten Reasons to Suspect You Might be a Gamer 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 4 
 
>Return-Path: <LghtnBolt@aol.com> 
>Delivered-To: arsenal@iquest.net 
>Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 03:03:25 -0400 (EDT) 
>From: LghtnBolt@aol.com 
>To: arsenal@iquest.net 
>Subject: Top Ten Reasons to Suspect You Might be a Gamer 
> 
> 
>TOP TEN REASONS TO SUSPECT YOU MIGHT BE A GAMER 
> 
>10)   You realize it's time to explain to junior Samuel isn't really a family 
>name, he was actually named after Sam Sun, the Shining  Samauri, one of the 
>founding members of the Gainesville Guardians. 
> 
>9)  You see the dictionary as a source of supervillians, creating teams like 
>the                 Terrible T's and the Killer Bs with a couple dozen 
>villians based on a single letter of the alphabet 
>                                                 
>        
>8)    After a phone call from an aggressive telemarketer who won't take "no" 
>for an .      answer you drop everything to create the Red Ringer, a demented 
>psychopath who screams "I SAID  I WASN"T INTERESTED!!" over and over until 
>his voice shatters his victoms eardrums. 
> 
>7)    You still have nightmares about all the things that went wrong with the 
>whole 
>"if-I-create-a-killer-tornado-20-miles-wide-and-start-wasting-hoosiers-they-MU 
>ST-make-me-King-of-Indiana" plot. 
> 
>6)    You wake up in the morning, hear the rain, and your first thought is:   
>.           "Fantastic!  My talking bullfrog is gonna LOVE today!" 
> 
>5)   You realize your typing has increased by 30 words a minute because of 
>all the  time you've spent working on the problems associated with creating a 
>unique magic system  
> 
>4)     At a party, after too many drinks, you realize you're saying"Yeah, I 
>killed ,       George Bush one New Year's Eve.  Sure, the damn good-guys 
> turned me to stone right afterwards but it was worth it."   and you actually 
>puff your chest out in pride as you boast:    "I was the reason  Dan Quail 
>became the  President in our realitiy!"  
> 
>3)     You watch every 60 minutes, Nightline, Dateline, Discovery Channel, 
>and Learning Channel  special you can find if it's about genetics, always 
>hoping to come with an even better way to build flying monkeys. 
> 
>2)    You realize this has to be at least the hundredth time you've had to 
>defend yourself for going back into the burning building for your gaming 
>files instead of the kittens. 
> 
>and the Number One Reason to Suspect You Might Be A Gamer... 
> 
>During foreplay you find yourself repeatedly saying:  "Do it, Babeazon!  Use 
>your Enchanted Handcuffs!" 
> 
>LghtnBolt@aol.com   Bill O'Neal              
> 
> 
Tony Satterthwaite 
http://www.iquest.net/~arsenal   Last Updated Jan 22, 1997 
Arizona Diamondbacks, CCABL APBA (c)  Baseball League 
*******							************* 
Government-run, tax-funded schools are nothing more than educational welfare. 
Separate school and state and free your children. 
Check out www.sepschool.org 
********						************* 
 
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified) 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 01:18:29 -0500 
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us> 
Subject: Re: Determining Limitations 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 5 
 
At 06:53 PM 5/29/97 +1000, happyelf! wrote: 
>here's a very small guide: 
> 
>-1/4 anything not involved directly in the campaign, like an effect that you 
>make up and the gm says "yeah, shure, whatever . ." 
> 
 
  In my Campaigns these are called -0 Limitations, "A limitation that does 
not limit is not a LIMITATION and is not worth a point break". Generally I 
just disallow most of these silly/stupid things.... 
 
 
>-1/2 Something really involved with the character: like kryptonite or 
silver, >something the character will see a lot of, within the plot of the 
setting(it not >just a random thingie) 
> 
 
Based on your examples, Kryptonite (at least for S-Man) would be a -1/4 in 
my campaigns (it's SUPPOSED to be rather rare), Silver would be worth a 
-1/2 ONLY 
if everyone new the character was affected by silver (ie A werewolf) 
otherwise it also would be a -1/4. 
 
  My general guideline is: 
 
	For every eight adventures how often will this effect you: 
 
		Once=			-1/4 
		Two Adventures=	-1/2 
 
		etc 
 
		Every Adventure	-2 
	Again this is only a guideline, but it works for me, and it keeps players 
	from coming up with "-1/4  Doesn't work when all the planets form a 
straight line from the sun" which happens (IIRC) about once every 10,000 yrs. 
 
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Re: Determining Limitations 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 03:27:27 -0400 (EDT) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 6 
 
> 	from coming up with "-1/4  Doesn't work when all the planets form a 
> straight line from the sun" which happens (IIRC) about once every 10,000 yrs. 
>  
>  
   Well, you could allow it.  Then have Galactus come by once a month and  
re-arrange the planets into a nice, neat line. :-) 
 
                                             Daniel Pawtowski 
 
 
From: BeerCarboy@aol.com 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:54:40 -0400 (EDT) 
cc: catdrag@vnet.net, champion@cyberhighway.net, deejay@cu-online.com, 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu, sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca 
Subject: Re: CHAR: CT (Aquarius) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Hmmmnn, 20 STR?  Ithink that is an underestimate . . . 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Carter Humphrey                                       BeerCarboy@AOL.com 
 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Date: Fri, 30 May 97 10:12:21 -0400 
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net 
From: "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On 5/29/97 7:22 PM, Joe Claffey Jr. (jrc@mail1.nai.net) Said: 
 
> One variation that I've been toying with is to require any Side Effect 
>that is an attack power (EB, KA, etc) to include the NND and Does BODY 
>advantages (+2 total). This makes Side Effects unpleasant, but not fatal 
>(how many characters can take a 12d6 EB that bypasses their defenses?) 
 
Are you really doing this? If I have a standard 12d6 EB (60 AP) (average  
42 stun, 12 bod BEFORE defenses) and take the side effects disad (-1) I  
get hit by a 12d6 EB, NND, Does Body (180 AP) (average 42 stun, 12 bod  
and NO defenses).  
 
That seems a little extreme, and could be fatal to low BOD characters, or  
those that had already taken som BOD damage. 
 
  .oooO        | 
  (   ) Oooo.  | David A. Fair 
   \ (  (   )  | SDS International 
    \_)  ) /   | dfair@sdslink.com 
        (_/    | 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:22:47 -0700 (PDT) 
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> 
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> 
Subject: Re: Wrack power 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 8 
 
John P Weatherman writes: 
 
> NND only calls for something reasonably common that can turn the power  
> off. 
> So if the defence is not spending END, that qualifies.  However, if a  
> target 
> stops burning END for 1 phase in that case, the wrack is cancelled and  
> the  
> target can then expend END again with no further ill effects. 
  
No, you're thinking of 'uncontrolled'.  'Not spending END for a phase' 
certainly qualifies as a legitimate way to turn an uncontrolled power off. 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 12:55:15 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: susano@access.digex.net, champ-l@omg.org, catdrag@vnet.net, 
        champion@cyberhighway.net, deejay@cu-online.com, 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu, sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca 
Subject: Re: CHAR: CT (Aquarius) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 9 
 
On Fri, 30 May 1997 BeerCarboy@aol.com wrote: 
 
> Hmmmnn, 20 STR?  Ithink that is an underestimate . . . 
 
Using my (rough) conversion charts, Aquarius would have an 18 STR.  I 
upped this to 20, but after reading Wildcards Book II, agree that he 
should probably have a 25 (maybe 30).  I don't think the GURPS Wildcards 
book fully represents that character properly. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:07:55 -0700 
From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net> 
Reply-To: tstatler@igateway.net 
Subject: Character Challenge (long) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
A hero I have has 2 DNPCs. I'd like to challenge the list to create one 
or both of them. I'll give you some background and a few possible disads 
and let the creators create. There is no prize but the final 2 choices 
I'll repost and recognize the author. 
 
Without further ado here are their backgrounds. 
 
Grampa William Smith (I'm terrible with names) 
 
Billy Smith was a young golden gloves boxer in the late 1930s - early 
1940s. He was on the way to making a name for himself when the US became 
invovled in WWII. Like most of his generation, he volunteered for the 
Marines. He fought in the Pacific campaign, Island hoping. During one 
fight, he rescued an injured Japanese soldier from being killed 
outright. The soldier wasn't the simple man Billy thought and according 
to tradition, now owed Billy his life. 
 At the time Billy didn't give it much thought. After the war, he went 
back to his Boxing career. He unfortuneately fell into the clutches of 
the wrong people, people who could garentee him wins. Billy realized 
only when it was too late, what the enevitable was going to be. To 
garuntee a life for his new wife and son he bought a gym in [campaign 
city]. A little over a year later, the men who managed him told him to 
take a dive or else. Billy decided to stand up to them and ended up 
beating his opponent. The men who he had burned decided to get even. 
They caught him unaware and beat him, breaking his back in the process. 
To keep him from testifing against them, they threatened his family. 
 He went home to manage the Gym. A few weeks later a knock on the door 
heralded the arrival of the Japanese soldier he had saved. The Japanese 
moved into a small apartment over the Gym and did wwhatever work the gym 
needed. His discussions with the Japanese led William to go to the 
police with what he knew of the Gangsters. Days later, his apartment 
caught fire while he was at the gym, killing his wife. He moved into the 
Apartment over the gym with his son (who had been in school at the time 
of the fire).  
 Years later his son was grown, married and had a young boy of his own. 
Tragedy struck again, as his son and wife were killed in a traffic 
accident. William Smith took in his Grandson to finish raising, 
instilling in him a sense of right and wrong, using himself as a 
negative example. Later the boy became X and fought the gangs and other 
villians as a costumed hero. 
 
Mr.Hitaschu Myogi (If you know Japanese spelling please correct mine, 
written in Western Style) 
 
Myogi had grown up in a family of samuri, and masters of the martial 
arts, instilling in him a code of duty and honor. He joined the imperial 
marines upon reaching adulthood, and fought in the pacific during WWII. 
His life took a great turn when, while wounded and about to be killed by 
an American soldier, another intervended and saved his life. He went 
into a POW camp for the remainder of the war and home after the 
surrender. 
He search for the American to whom he owed the life debt, but didn't 
find him until he saw a newspaper article about a boxer who had been 
nearly killed by Mobsters. He recognized him as the man who saved his 
life and sold what he had to travel to America.  
He took a job working for his new freind doing watever was needed at the 
gym, from cleaning to fixing broken plumbing. He also debated life with 
him, trying to instill honor. After William Smith's wife died, he shared 
his living space with the man and his son.  
 When William took in his grandson, Mr. Myogi (What the boy always 
called him) taught him the ways of the samuri and karate. The boy took 
to the training rather easily and became a master himself.  
 
Here is some disads and othe rnotes for the 2 DNPCs: 
 
William Smith: 
Incompetent DNPC 
may have a few jabs etc. still in memory. 
 
AGE 60+ (approx 75 to 80 now) 10 pts 
Pys Lim: Paralzed from waist down, can't walk. freq,great  15 pts 
Distinctive features: Wheelchair, conceal w/effort, is always noticed  
15 pts. 
 
 
Mr. Hitaschu Myogi 
Normal DNPC 
 
Karate Master 
 
Age 40+ (about same age as William Smith but in much better shape)  5 
points 
Dis Feature: Japanese easily conceal, note&recognized     5 points 
Psych LIm: Indebted to, loyal to William Smith (common, strong) 
(this is just a minimum. could be stronger if modeled correctly.) 
 
 
 
Thanks and good huniting 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:14:00 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: The Great and Powerful Turtle 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
THE GREAT AND POWERFUL TURTLE 
(Thomas Tudbury) 
 
Designers Notes: 
The Turtle is *the* most powerful telekineticist in the world.  As Thomas 
Tudbury, the Turtle stands 5'9" and weighs about 170 lbs, with collar 
length dark brown hair.  Within his 'shell' however, the Turtle become a 
true 'superhero', righting wrongs, saving those in distress and doing his 
best to combat crime.  Although he's become a bit cynical over the years, 
the Turtle still keeps at it, doing his best to keep the streets of New 
York safe for everyone. 
 
Note: Some people way want to give the Turtle some for of Variable Area of 
Affect advantage to the Turtle's TK.  He can use his TK much like a giant 
pair of hands, pushing people about, picking up masses of water and so on. 
The 100 STR value was achieved due to the fact that the Turtle *lifted* 
the battleship New Jersey out of the water for 30 seconds one day. 
 
Note II:  Turtles Hero ID requires him to be inside of his Shell to use 
his powers.  He can over come this psychological crutch outside of his 
Shell, but the Turtle is limited to about 10 STR and a x10 END cost. 
 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		9		-1 
Dex		11		3 
Con		11		2 
Body		10		0 
Int		18		8 
Ego		15		10 
Pre		10		0 
Com		10		0 
PD		2		0 
ED		2		0 
Spd		3		9 
Rec		4		0 
End		22		0 
Stun		21		0 
Char Total			31 
Power Total			318 
Total Cost			349 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
240	TK: 100 STR, Invisible to Sight (+1/2), 0 END, Only in HID (-1/4) 
 
31	Vehicle: Turtle's Shell 
 
10	Wealth 
6	AK: New York City 16- 
9	Electronics 14- 
6	KS: Comic Books 16- 
4	KS: Electronics 14- 
2	PS: Electrician 11- 
5	Systems Operation 14- 
5	Trading 12- 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
10	Phys: Bad eyes, needs glasses 
15	Psych: Protective of innocents, feels it is his duty to aid those 
	in trouble 
10	Psych: Shy, tends to keep to himself 
15	Secret ID 
 
(The Great and Powerful Turtle created by George R R Martin, character 
sheet created by Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:15:06 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Turtle's shell 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
THE GREAT AND POWERFUL TURTLE'S SHELL 
 
This is Turtle's shell.  It is made from old battleship armor plate, 
layered over (at least the first time around) the body of a Volkswagen 
Beetle.  Later models have included a reclining chair, refrigerator, 
external spotlights, a loudspeaker system and an on board computer.  I'll 
leave those sorts of modifications up to individual GMs. 
 
STAT		VALUE		COST 
Size		3.2x1.6		25	 
DCV		-3		 
Mass (KB)	4t (-3)		 
STR		35		0 
DEF		20		54 
BODY		15		0 
DEX		11		3 
SPD		3		9 
Flt Move	30"		60 
MAX		180 
Char Total			151 
Equip Total			21 
Total Cost			172 
 
COST	EQUIPMENT	 
5	360 Degree Vision IAF (cameras) 
6	HRRH, IIF (internal radio) 
2	IRJVision (IR filters for cameras), IAF 
8	Radar, IIF 
 
Disadvantages 
157	Base 
15	DF: Turtle's Shell, a one-of-a-kind vehicle 
 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
X-Sender: jrc@pop1.nai.net 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:15:08 -0500 
From: "Joe Claffey Jr." <jrc@mail1.nai.net> 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
"David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> wrote, 
>On 5/29/97 7:22 PM, Joe Claffey Jr. (jrc@mail1.nai.net) Said: 
> 
>> One variation that I've been toying with is to require any Side Effect 
>>that is an attack power (EB, KA, etc) to include the NND and Does BODY 
>>advantages (+2 total). This makes Side Effects unpleasant, but not fatal 
>>(how many characters can take a 12d6 EB that bypasses their defenses?) 
> 
>Are you really doing this? If I have a standard 12d6 EB (60 AP) (average 
>42 stun, 12 bod BEFORE defenses) and take the side effects disad (-1) I 
>get hit by a 12d6 EB, NND, Does Body (180 AP) (average 42 stun, 12 bod 
>and NO defenses). 
> 
>That seems a little extreme, and could be fatal to low BOD characters, or 
>those that had already taken som BOD damage. 
 
 The 12d6 EB that bypasses defenses is the *standard* way to do Side Effect 
(at the -1 level). My method reduces it to 4d6. 
 
  Joe Claffey               | "In the end, everything is a gag." 
  jrc@ct1.nai.net           |               - Charlie Chaplin 
 
 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:56:48 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Joe Claffey Jr. wrote: 
>  
> "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> wrote, 
> >On 5/29/97 7:22 PM, Joe Claffey Jr. (jrc@mail1.nai.net) Said: 
> > 
> >> One variation that I've been toying with is to require any Side Effect 
> >>that is an attack power (EB, KA, etc) to include the NND and Does BODY 
> >>advantages (+2 total). This makes Side Effects unpleasant, but not fatal 
> >>(how many characters can take a 12d6 EB that bypasses their defenses?) 
> > 
> >Are you really doing this? If I have a standard 12d6 EB (60 AP) (average 
> >42 stun, 12 bod BEFORE defenses) and take the side effects disad (-1) I 
> >get hit by a 12d6 EB, NND, Does Body (180 AP) (average 42 stun, 12 bod 
> >and NO defenses). 
> > 
> >That seems a little extreme, and could be fatal to low BOD characters, or 
> >those that had already taken som BOD damage. 
>  
>  The 12d6 EB that bypasses defenses is the *standard* way to do Side Effect 
> (at the -1 level). My method reduces it to 4d6. 
 
 
I dont have my books with me, and maybe this was a house rule, but an 
old GM always made the side effect NND for free.  His logic?  If not 
NND, it wasn't worth anything (especially the 30 pt effect level).  If 
you get to apply your defenses towards the side effect, how often is 6d6 
going to get through?  Go ahead and give me that freebie -1/2 side 
effect on ALL of my powers!! 
 
Todd 
 
--  
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 Todd Hanson                       Minnesota: Land of two seasons: 
 BadTodd@dacmail.net               winter is coming, winter is here. 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 18:25:45 -0500 (CDT) 
Subject: CHAR: Turtle's shell 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:  
 
> BODY		15		0 
> DEX		11		3 
> SPD		3		9 
> Flt Move	30"		60 
> MAX		180 
 
Actually, strictly speaking, the Turtle's shell should have no movement 
capabilities on its own, since the Turtle moves it with his awesomely 
powerful TK. 
 
Curt  
 
p.s. I like the adaptions ! 
 
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 18:27:57 -0500 (CDT) 
Subject: Wrack power 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
D'oh !  Thanks to all who pointed out that the spending stun as endurance  
rules nicely takes care of this, assuming you can nullify all of somebody's 
endurance.    
 
Curt  
 
 
X-Sender: ctaylor@mailhost.cyberhighway.net 
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:17:44 -0700 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberhighway.net> 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>I dont have my books with me, and maybe this was a house rule, but an 
>old GM always made the side effect NND for free.  His logic?  If not 
>NND, it wasn't worth anything (especially the 30 pt effect level).  If 
>you get to apply your defenses towards the side effect, how often is 6d6 
>going to get through?  Go ahead and give me that freebie -1/2 side 
>effect on ALL of my powers!! 
 
In the original Fantasy Hero rules that is how it worked... but they changed 
that with 4th edition.  The comments about how little effect 30 active 
points has are based only on Champions experience.  Make a wizard for 
Fantasy hero some time and see what the 2D6 HKA or a 3D6 flash side effect 
does... especially when the spell is less than 30 active points its self. 
 
In my opinion, the side effects should be more like this: 
 
        -1/2: 10 active points or 1/2 the points of the power 
          -1: 30 active points or equal to power  
        whichever is greater. 
         
 
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Opal@october.com (Opal) 
Date: 31 May 97 02:29:02 GMT 
Subject: Determining Limitations 
X-Ftn-To: rjacobs@radiks.net 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october!opal 
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *  
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
 r > Hello All,  
 r >  
 r > Anybody have any good suggestions on how to determine the value of  
 r > non-standard limitations?  I'm looking for a way to remove some of the  
 r > subjectivity from the process (I realize that there is no way to make  
 r > it  
 r > totally objective, but some guidance would be beneficial).  
 r >  
 r > Rob  
  
One old rule of thumb for Limitations in the 'only when' or  
'not when' structure (where you either can use the power or cant):  
  
  The limitation should come up, on average, in about as many games  
as the proportion of the limitation:  so a 1/2 Lim, would come up  
in about half the games played, a -1 in most of them, and a -2 more  
than once in practically every game.  
  
For limitations that reduce the utility of a power, you're pretty much  
stuck comparing them to existing lims - find an existing limitation that  
is *more* limiting than the new one, and use it as a maximum.  
  
For limitations that are the 'reverse' of advantages:  If you want to  
play it conservative, say that they are half the value of the advantage:  
For instance:  Instant (-1/2) is the reverse of Constant (+1).  However,  
there are also instances where the vaules are the same at range and  
no range are +1/2 and -1/2, respectively.  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
___  
 * OFFLINE 1.58  
 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 00:39:00 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Turtle's shell 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Fri, 30 May 1997, Curt Hicks wrote: 
 
> Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:  
>  
> > BODY		15		0 
> > DEX		11		3 
> > SPD		3		9 
> > Flt Move	30"		60 
> > MAX		180 
>  
> Actually, strictly speaking, the Turtle's shell should have no movement 
> capabilities on its own, since the Turtle moves it with his awesomely 
> powerful TK. 
 
Uhm, well, yes... but in effect, the Shell is a vehicle and not a focus. 
Even the GURPS sourcebook lists it a 'vehicle' of sorts. 
 
> p.s. I like the adaptions ! 
 
Thanks! 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 00:11:19 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
Subject: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
One of the toughest parts of being a Champs GM is coming up with new 
scenarios that are more than 'the villians are robbing the bank - you 
all manage to arrive at the same time... phase 12!' 
 
I stumbled across a neat site that has sparked several scenario ideas.  
It has all kinds of articles on the latest and greatest science news 
(including things like new findings about stars and planets, the effects 
of space travel on germs and bacteria, the current status of the Russian 
space program, etc).  All the neat things that might trigger a new super 
hero or villian, or might be the target of that slightly insane 
scientist...  The site is http://www.sciencenow.org if you want to check 
it out. 
 
This got me to wondering.. has anyone else stumbled on a non-champions 
web site that has information useful to a Champs GM? 
 
Todd 
 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 00:13:39 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
Subject: Spawn? 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
After watching the latest episode of the new Spawn animated series, I 
realized that I actually have no clue what the guys actual powers are.  
I never bothered with the comic when it came out (seemed like just 
another Image 'anti-hero' title).    
 
Has anyone attempted a Champions write up of Spawn?  Would you like to 
share it with me (and the list?) 
 
Todd 
 
From: HoosierJA@aol.com 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 01:33:51 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
In a message dated 97-05-30 12:12:09 EDT, jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
(happyelf!) writes: 
 
>  >...there should be one final and culminating Event that should make 
>  >everything all better.  And that the PC heros should be behind (no...not 
>  >behind...in front of) that Event. 
>  > 
>   
>  this i have to disagree with. One event is an oversimplification, IMHO. 
   
I just gotta restate my point here.  Virtually all good fictional stories 
wrap up with a demouement.  From Homer to John Byrne there is almost always 
the one Final Event that brings the story to a close.  Maybe (sure) there are 
unanswered questions, but the Final chapter is just that...the Final Chapter. 
 And in a role playing enviornment I think it would be unfair to the players 
if the Event didn't feature them.   
 
I don't think you're disagreeing with me on this point.  At least I hope your 
not. 
 
And of course I agree with you that most good story arcs should change the 
face of the campaing.  But they don't all have to be complete plastic 
surgical overhauls.  And if the players just thought they where bringing up 
the rear but found themselves saving the planet...great.  As long as they're 
the ones doing the saving.  As long as the Event features them. 
 
I maintain that the best stories are the purest ones.  Don't get me 
wrong...The characters needn't be simple or ordinary.  Nor do the actual 
plots and the events in them need to be hackneyed or too easy to second 
guess.  There should always be at least one or two surprises.  But the age 
old rules of presenting a story have rarely to be improved upon.   
In the immortal words of Henry David Thoreau:  " Simplify, simplify, 
simplify". 
 
Of course Thoreau said it three times when he only needed to once. 
 
Jay "the flip" A. 
 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 01:35:40 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Wildcards characters 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
For anyone who is keeping track, here is a list of completd (nad planned) 
GURPS Wildcards conversions.  Note, not all the complete characters have 
been posted yet. 
 
	NAME				POINTS	 
	Astronomer, The	 
	Bagabond	 
	Black Eagle	 
	Bludgeon			129 
	Cpt. Trips			64 
	(Aquarius)			100 
	(Aquarius - Dolphin Form)	478 
	(Cosmic Traveler)		377 
	(Jumping Jack Flash)		715 
	(Moonchild)			450 
	(Starshine)			378 
	Carnifex			334 
	Chaisson Cordelia		201 
	Chickenhawk			52 
	Cyclone				302 
	Deadhead	 
	Demise	 
	Dr. Tachyon	 
	Elephant Girl			92 
	(Elephant form)			341 
	Envoy, The	 
	Fadeout				210 
	Fantasy	 
	Father Squid			178 
	Fortunato	 
	Gimli				106 
	Golden Boy			309 
	Harlem Hammer, The		310 
	Howler, The			244 
	Kid Dinosaur	 
	Kien Phuc			136 
	Mistral	 
	Lazy Dragon	 
	Mackie Messer			336 
	Modular Man			631 
	Oddity, The			199 
	Peregrine			196 
	Popinjay			463 
	Puppetman	 
	Quasiman			200 
	Quinn the Eskimo	 
	Sewer Jack			75 
	(Alligator form)		179 
	Sleeper, The			varies 
	Steele, George	 
	Strauss, Jerimiah		100 
	Ti Malice			201 
	Travineck, Maxim	 
	Troll				153 
	Turtle, The			349 
	(Shell)				172 
	Warlock	 
	Water Lily	 
	Whisperer	 
	Worchester, Hiram	 
	Wraith				232 
	Wyrm				285 
	Wyungare			170 
	Yeoman				335 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Date: Sat, 31 May 97 09:37:50 -0500 
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
happyelf!!!! 
 
>> I just gotta restate my point here.  Virtually all good fictional stories 
>> wrap up with a demouement.  From Homer to John Byrne there is almost always 
>> the one Final Event that brings the story to a close.  Maybe (sure) there  
are 
>> unanswered questions, but the Final chapter is just that...the Final  
Chapter. 
>>  And in a role playing enviornment I think it would be unfair to the players 
>> if the Event didn't feature them. 
> 
>yeah, and they were *literature*, while this is *roleplaying*- it keeps  
>going, and where it goes is up to the players- tying it down like this is  
>a bad idea.  
 
In my experience, the rules of good literature, when applied to  
role-playing,  
make execellent role-playing.  A story should tie up and should have a  
cumulating Event.  This does not imply an ending however sence, just like 
novels, the next sequel is always arround the corner.  As a player, I get 
VERY discouraged when there aren't final grant Events, one per story arc,  
to cleanly let the playing move into a new arena. 
 
I do agree that some things that work in literature don't work in  
role-playing 
very well, precognition being at the top of my list, but the basic  
structure 
works very well. 
 
>> And of course I agree with you that most good story arcs should change the 
>> face of the campaing.  But they don't all have to be complete plastic 
>> surgical overhauls.  And if the players just thought they where bringing up 
>> the rear but found themselves saving the planet...great.  As long as they're 
>> the ones doing the saving.  As long as the Event features them. 
>>  
> 
>but i would argue for millions of these "events" like . .say they have in  
>all the crosovers? spidey bussed some sentinels in onslaught, too, y'know 
>. . . .it was a good use of his character . .  . 
 
Crossovers do not preclude the use of a final cumulating even that ends  
the 
mechanism by which the crossover occured. 
 
> 
>> I maintain that the best stories are the purest ones.  Don't get me 
>> wrong...The characters needn't be simple or ordinary.  Nor do the actual 
>> plots and the events in them need to be hackneyed or too easy to second 
>> guess.  There should always be at least one or two surprises.  But the age 
>> old rules of presenting a story have rarely to be improved upon. 
>> In the immortal words of Henry David Thoreau:  " Simplify, simplify, 
>> simplify". 
>>  
> 
>but he wasn't six people!! an rpg CANNOT follow the rules of literature!  
>sorry, but this is one of the major misconceptions i hav come across.  
>a good game does not a good book make, and vice versa is also true. 
 
I would maintain that the biggest misconception I've come across is that  
the 
rules of literature shouldn't apply to role-playing.  A good RPG should a  
good 
story tell, and a good story should make a good book.  However I'll grant  
that 
a good book may not always work the best as an RPG.  The issue here being  
the 
writer doesn't control the main character anymore, the plotlines are  
usually  
still good material, the Events just never turn out right! :) 
 
PAX. 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
X-Sender: naneiden@iswest.com 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 08:36:28 -0700 
From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Turtle's shell 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 12:39 AM 5/31/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> wrote: 
>On Fri, 30 May 1997, Curt Hicks wrote: 
> 
>> Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:  
>>  
>> > BODY		15		0 
>> > DEX		11		3 
>> > SPD		3		9 
>> > Flt Move	30"		60 
>> > MAX		180 
>>  
>> Actually, strictly speaking, the Turtle's shell should have no movement 
>> capabilities on its own, since the Turtle moves it with his awesomely 
>> powerful TK. 
> 
>Uhm, well, yes... but in effect, the Shell is a vehicle and not a focus. 
>Even the GURPS sourcebook lists it a 'vehicle' of sorts. 
> 
 
Well, since TK clearly states that you can't use TK to move yourself around. 
You can't pick up an object with TK, step on it, then fly around like the 
Silver Surfer. So you have to buy flight to simulate it. At most, the 
flight's special effect is Turtle's TK. 
 
>> p.s. I like the adaptions ! 
> 
 
Yep, they are way cool. :) 
 
-Nic 
 
 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 12:09:52 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: Re: Custom Character Drawings 
Cc: hero-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 07:04 AM 5/29/97 -0400, Legionair@aol.com wrote: 
><<I am afraid I can only send pictures by snail mail.  I can send copies of 
>some of the stuff I have done for others. 
>Patrick B.>> 
> 
>That's fine.  I'll give you my home address and you can mail the copies of  
>the samples there.  The best thing I can think of is to send me those  
>copies and tell me how much you charged for each of them...  That would  
>give me the best idea of what you have and what you charge for it... 
> 
>Here's another question...  Are there any genres you don't like to do?  Or do 
>you stick strictly to Champions type stuff? 
> 
 
 
Thanks for all those who expressed interest in my custom drawings.  Here is 
where thing stand. 
 
I have had someone generously offer to scan my work for me so that I can 
send out samples in (hopefully) the very near future.  As far as price goes 
I usually charge around $10.00 for an 8 1/2 X 11 color drawing on vellum 
bristol. 
 
I have no real qualms about other genres so much as certain subject matter. 
No nudity, partial or otherwise.  I avoid subject matter of a patently 
demonic  nature.  (ie I'd rather not do Spawn style characters)  I try to 
avoid multiple characters in one drawing.  I usually ask for someone to give 
me a description first and then I decide whether I can do it or not. 
Usually if I refuse a drawing it is because I just don't think I can do a 
decent, satisfactory job of it. 
 
As soon as I have the scans ready to send I willlet the list kn ow and then 
anyone who wants copies can request them.  Any questions should be directed 
to me at my address not the list.  I will post answers to the list only when 
I get enough of the same request to make it practical 
 
Thanks for the interest. 
 
I'll be in touch. 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Date: Sat, 31 May 97 13:12:39 -0500 
From: Fugazi <fugazi@frontiernet.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-- [ From: Fugazi * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- 
 
 
-------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- 
 
> Date: Saturday, 31-May-97 09:37 AM 
>  
> From: John P Weatherman        \ Internet:    (asahoshi@nr.infi.net) 
> To:   champ-l@omg.org          \ Internet:    (champ-l@omg.org) 
>  
> Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
>  
> happyelf!!!! 
>  
> >> I just gotta restate my point here.  Virtually all good fictional 
stories 
> >> wrap up with a demouement.  From Homer to John Byrne there is almost 
always 
> >> the one Final Event that brings the story to a close.  Maybe (sure) 
there  
> are 
> >> unanswered questions, but the Final chapter is just that...the Final  
> Chapter. 
> >>  And in a role playing enviornment I think it would be unfair to the 
players 
> >> if the Event didn't feature them. 
> > 
> >yeah, and they were *literature*, while this is *roleplaying*- it keeps  
> >going, and where it goes is up to the players- tying it down like this is 
 
> >a bad idea.  
>  
 
	I find it helpful to remember that the basis for champions is super-hero 
comics.  And there is no "final moment" in the comics that I enjoy.  Oh sure 
, the heroes may beat, force, or out-think a threat into a kind of dormancy, 
but would Batman be as interesting if he had destroyed the Joker completely 
and permanently in their first encounter?  No, in champions, as in comics, a 
good plotline is a series of threats layered over each other. 
 
>  
> >> And of course I agree with you that most good story arcs should change 
the 
> >> face of the campaing.  But they don't all have to be complete plastic 
> >> surgical overhauls.  And if the players just thought they where 
bringing up 
> >> the rear but found themselves saving the planet...great.  As long as 
they're 
> >> the ones doing the saving.  As long as the Event features them. 
> >>  
> > 
> >but i would argue for millions of these "events" like . .say they have in 
 
> >all the crosovers? spidey bussed some sentinels in onslaught, too, y'know 
> >. . . .it was a good use of his character . .  . 
 
	Exactly.  Keep the threat alive!  Keeps them on their toes.  Makes sure 
Superman doesn't become an overweight couch potato, ordering out for pizza  
("delivery please.  Address? 1 Fortress of Solitude.") and watching cnn for 
the Next Big Threat.  Kill 'em slowly with stress, I say. 
 
> > 
> >> I maintain that the best stories are the purest ones.  Don't get me 
> >> wrong...The characters needn't be simple or ordinary.  Nor do the 
actual 
> >> plots and the events in them need to be hackneyed or too easy to second 
> >> guess.  There should always be at least one or two surprises.  But the 
age 
> >> old rules of presenting a story have rarely to be improved upon. 
> >> In the immortal words of Henry David Thoreau:  " Simplify, simplify, 
> >> simplify". 
> >>  
> > 
> >but he wasn't six people!! an rpg CANNOT follow the rules of literature!  
> >sorry, but this is one of the major misconceptions i hav come across.  
> >a good game does not a good book make, and vice versa is also true. 
>  
 
	A good book? No.  But hopefully a heckuva comic book.  To draw on another 
analogy, a good champions campaign should be a nightmare for the heroes in 
which they are relentlessly pursued by an innumerable and unending stream of 
villains, or villanous deeds.  After all, if your group got together to play 
, and the campaign events consisted of receiving awards for the storyline 
they just ended, then "nothing else, guys.  Must be a slow week for crime!", 
they'd soon be bored.  But if they are attacked by a new threat while 
receiving the awards, well, then we're in business! 
 
X-Originating-IP: [206.39.35.204] 
From: "David Graham" <dgraham882@hotmail.com> 
Subject: Call for PBEM Lurkers 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 15:24:52 PDT 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
(The following is an advertisement.) 
 
It's January 1, 1997.  The New Year has come.  The new century, and the  
new millenium, are soon to come as well.  Some say that the new  
millenium will bring about a glorious New Age.  However, there are dark  
forces that threaten to destroy the world as we know it.  The first  
signs are already in sight.  Crime and corruption are all around.  Drug  
abuse is on the rise, with the introduction of a narcotic called Power.   
The world teeters, heading toward the "Eve of Destruction." 
 
What do you do? 
 
(This is an advertisement for a Dark Champions PBEM called "Eve of  
Destruction.  Player slots are currently filled.  However, if you would  
like to be placed on the Lurkers list, please e-mail  
dgraham882@hotmail.com.  New Players will be selected from the Lurkers  
list as slots become open.) 
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------- 
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 
--------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 17:26:55 -0700 
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
> I just gotta restate my point here.  Virtually all good fictional stories 
> wrap up with a demouement.  From Homer to John Byrne there is almost always 
> the one Final Event that brings the story to a close.  Maybe (sure) there are 
> unanswered questions, but the Final chapter is just that...the Final Chapter. 
>  And in a role playing enviornment I think it would be unfair to the players 
> if the Event didn't feature them. 
 
yeah, and they were *literature*, while this is *roleplaying*- it keeps going, and  
where it goes is up to the players- tying it down like this is a bad idea.  
 
>  
> I don't think you're disagreeing with me on this point.  At least I hope your 
> not. 
>  
 
yes, i am. not your tone,  your point.  
your tone is fine, your point is incorect. 
hence my point about your point, as opposed to a point about your tone(sorry) 
 
> And of course I agree with you that most good story arcs should change the 
> face of the campaing.  But they don't all have to be complete plastic 
> surgical overhauls.  And if the players just thought they where bringing up 
> the rear but found themselves saving the planet...great.  As long as they're 
> the ones doing the saving.  As long as the Event features them. 
>  
 
but i would argue for millions of these "events" like . .say they have in all the  
crosovers? spidey bussed some sentinels in onslaught, too, y'know. . . .it was a good  
use of his character . .  . 
 
 
 
> I maintain that the best stories are the purest ones.  Don't get me 
> wrong...The characters needn't be simple or ordinary.  Nor do the actual 
> plots and the events in them need to be hackneyed or too easy to second 
> guess.  There should always be at least one or two surprises.  But the age 
> old rules of presenting a story have rarely to be improved upon. 
> In the immortal words of Henry David Thoreau:  " Simplify, simplify, 
> simplify". 
>  
 
but he wasn't six people!! an rpg CANNOT follow the rules of literature!  
sorry, but this is one of the major misconceptions i hav come across.  
a good game does not a good book make, and vice versa is also true. 
 
 
> Of course Thoreau said it three times when he only needed to once. 
>  
 
actually, he needed to say it three times- his secretary coudn't take dictation  
for nuts . .*lol* 
 
 
> Jay "the flip" A.flip away, man! 
 
 
so, what does the rest of the list think? 
 
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:05:22 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 09:37 AM 5/31/97 -0500, you wrote: 
>happyelf!!!! 
> 
>>yeah, and they were *literature*, while this is *roleplaying*- it keeps  
>>going, and where it goes is up to the players- tying it down like this is  
>>a bad idea.  
> 
>In my experience, the rules of good literature, when applied to  
>role-playing,  
>make execellent role-playing.  A story should tie up and should have a  
>cumulating Event.  This does not imply an ending however sence, just like 
>novels, the next sequel is always arround the corner.  As a player, I get 
>VERY discouraged when there aren't final grant Events, one per story arc,  
>to cleanly let the playing move into a new arena. 
> 
 
I don't. imho, Loose ends and closure abuse a good campagn make. Otherwise 
the gm has to make basically a new campaign for each scenario, instead of just relying on the fabric of his continuity. 
 
 
 
>I do agree that some things that work in literature don't work in  
>role-playing 
>very well, precognition being at the top of my list, but the basic  
>structure 
>works very well. 
> 
 
but is it the structure of literatuer, or storytelling in general which applies? 
 
 
>>> And of course I agree with you that most good story arcs should change the 
>>> face of the campaing.  But they don't all have to be complete plastic 
>>> surgical overhauls.  And if the players just thought they where bringing up 
>>> the rear but found themselves saving the planet...great.  As long as they're 
>>> the ones doing the saving.  As long as the Event features them. 
>>>  
>> 
>>but i would argue for millions of these "events" like . .say they have in  
>>all the crosovers? spidey bussed some sentinels in onslaught, too, y'know 
>>. . . .it was a good use of his character . .  . 
> 
>Crossovers do not preclude the use of a final cumulating even that ends  
>the 
>mechanism by which the crossover occured. 
> 
 
yes, but from the perspective of (for instance) spidey, the battle he and pete(i know) 
had *WAS* *their* culminating event, and it was just as signifigant for them 
as any other culminating event. 
 
 
 
>>but he wasn't six people!! an rpg CANNOT follow the rules of literature!  
>>sorry, but this is one of the major misconceptions i hav come across.  
>>a good game does not a good book make, and vice versa is also true. 
> 
>I would maintain that the biggest misconception I've come across is that  
>the 
>rules of literature shouldn't apply to role-playing.  A good RPG should a  
>good 
>story tell, and a good story should make a good book.  However I'll grant  
>that 
>a good book may not always work the best as an RPG.  The issue here being  
>the 
>writer doesn't control the main character anymore, the plotlines are  
>usually  
>still good material, the Events just never turn out right! :) 
>PAX 
 
so in all honesty, we have very little in common with literature at all if what  
you say is true. Sorry, that's my opinion, and i just happen to be correct. *eg* 
i bet if you actually "nailed down" a set of rules for literature we would find  
that most of them don't apply to literature, littleown roleplaying. 
RPG's and literature are seperate and distinct: one cannot be made or judged directly from the other. 
 
 
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:11:13 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Invasion!?! 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
>> >but he wasn't six people!! an rpg CANNOT follow the rules of literature!  
>> >sorry, but this is one of the major misconceptions i hav come across.  
>> >a good game does not a good book make, and vice versa is also true. 
>>  
> 
>	A good book? No.  But hopefully a heckuva comic book.  To draw on another 
>analogy, a good champions campaign should be a nightmare for the heroes in 
>which they are relentlessly pursued by an innumerable and unending stream of 
>villains, or villanous deeds.  After all, if your group got together to play 
>, and the campaign events consisted of receiving awards for the storyline 
>they just ended, then "nothing else, guys.  Must be a slow week for crime!", 
>they'd soon be bored.  But if they are attacked by a new threat while 
>receiving the awards, well, then we're in business! 
> 
> 
 
 
point taken. I think the only place this went overboard was in the spidey  
comics where PP ended up going mad from stress for a while- wimp! 
 
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:22:00 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Elephant Girl (human) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
ELEPHANT GIRL 
(Radha Valeria O'Reilly - human form) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Elephant Girl (better known as Radha Valeria O'Reilly) is an Indian/Irish 
woman, who stands 5'2" and weighs all of 105 lbs.  She has a trim muscular 
figure, and posses the ability to shapeshift into a full-grown Asian 
elephant.  Currently, Radha uses this power as part of a circus act, 
working with a troupe of 'normal' elephants.  Due to her origins, she is 
hunted by priests of the Elephant god Gonesh, who wish for her to return 
with them to India.  Having escaped from their clutches when she was 17, 
Radha has no desire to return. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		8		-2 
Dex		20		30 
Con		14		8 
Body		12		4 
Int		15		5 
Ego		13		6 
Pre		13		3 
Com		18		4 
PD		2		0 
ED		2		-1 
Spd		3		0 
Rec		5		0 
End		28		0 
Stun		23		0 
Char Total			57 
Power Total			35 
Total Cost			92 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
10	Wealth 
3	Acrobatics 13- 
11	Animal Handler (elephants) 15- 
2	PS: Circus Performer 11- 
5	SC: Veterinarian 14- 
4	Lang: English (4), Hindi (native) 
 
Disadvantages 
50	Base 
10	Hunted: Priests of Gonesh (aspow) 8-  
5	Psych: Vegitarian 
27	Experience 
 
(Elephant Girl created by Parris, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:24:32 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Elephant Girl (elephant) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
ELEPHANT GIRL 
(Elephant form) 
 
Designers Notes: 
This is Radha's elephant form.  She assumes the shape of a full-grown, 
female, Asian elephant.  By flapping her ears, she can fly (GMs may want 
to put the limitation of "restrainable" upon her flight, but with a 65 
STR, I wonder if that's really a limitation).  When assuming the elephant 
form, Radha absorbs all the available electricity in the local area (up to 
several blocks away).  This could be bought in several ways, I decided to 
go with a Drain since that was the one power that would have the most 
effect upon PCs and NPCs.  A Transformation attack (with a huge Radius of 
Affect) would also work, the transforming blacking or shorting out of 
electrical devices.  When returning to human form, her excess masss is 
dissipated in the form of light energy, causing a brillaint flash. 
Naturally, the power level for these sorts of effects are very GM 
dependedent, I used the 'default' of 60 AP for all effects. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		65		25 
Dex		15		15 
Con		30		40 
Body		35		40 
Int		15		5 
Ego		13		6 
Pre		25		15 
Com		10		0 
PD		13		5 
ED		8		1 
Spd		3		5 
Rec		13		0 
End		60		0 
Stun		67		0 
Char Total			157 
Power Total			184 
Total Cost			341 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
33	Growth: 5 Levels, 0 END, Persistant, Always on 
7	Density Increase: 1 Level, 0 END, Persistant, Always on 
	+30 STR, +5 Body, +1 PD, +1 ED, +5 Stun, -6" KB, -3 DCV, +3 PER 
	 14' tall, 12,800 lbs 
 
18	Multiform: Radha Valeria O'Reilly (92 points) 
22	Energy Manipulation Multipower, Linked to Multiform Activation 
	(-1/2), 1 Recoverable Charge (charges recover by switching 
	Multiforms) (-1 1/4) 
2	u 3d6 Drain vs END Reserve, Radius of Effect, Electrical END 
	Reserves Only (-1), 1 Recoverable Charge 
2	u 4d6 Flash - Sight, Explosive, No Range, 1 Recoverable Charge 
 
20	1 1/2d6 HKA, Reduced Pentration - tusks 
15	Armor: +6 PD, +4 ED 
40	Movement Multipower 
8	m Flight: 20", END 4 
2	m Running: +6" (12" total), END 2 
5	Extra Limb: Trunk 
3	+1 with All Perception 
2	+1 with Smell Percpetion 
5	CSL: +1 w/HTH 
 
Disadvantages	 
100	Base 
15	DF: Asian Elephant 
10	Hunted: Priests of Gonesh (aspow) 8-  
5	Phys: Cannot Leap 
10	Phys: Limited Fine Manipulation 
10	Phys: Mute 
191	Experience 
 
(Elephant Girl created by Parris, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:26:03 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Kien Phuc 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
KIEN PHUC 
 
Designers Notes: 
Kien Phuc is am older Asian man of average height with a slightly pudgy 
build.  He stands 5'10", weighs 175 and is always dressed in finely 
tailored, expensive suits.  A form ARVN general, he currently resides in 
New York, where he own a large chain of Chinese restaurants and dry 
cleaning stores.  He is also the head of the Shadow Fist Society, an 
organized crime group bent of becoming the master of the criminal 
underworld in New York.  Kien Phuc has recruited heavily among both Asian 
and Western Operatives, as well as using both nats, jokers and aces to 
accomplish his ends.  He is very ruthless, very dangerous and will kill 
anyone who cross him without the slightest hesitation.  He has made a 
mortal enemy of Yeoman, who has sworn to kill him.  While trying to kill 
Wraith, Kien Phuc lost most of his right hand.  Currently, Kien is the 
master of New York, having driven the mafia away and battled Yeoman to a 
stalemate. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		10		0 
Dex		12		6 
Con		14		8 
Body		12		4 
Int		20		10 
Ego		20		20 
Pre		18		8 
Com		10		0 
PD		4		1 
ED		3		0 
Spd		3		8 
Rec		5		0 
End		28		0 
Stun		24		0 
Char Total			65 
Power Total			71 
Total Cost			136 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
	MA: Than Vo Dao 
4	Block  +2 OCV  +2 DCV  Block, Abort 
3	Joint Lock  +0 OCV  -1 DCV  Grab One Limb; 20 STR to Hold  
3	Legsweep  +2 OCV  -1 DCV  3d6 Strike; Target Falls 
4	Punch  +2 OCV  +0 DCV  4d6 Strike 
3	Throw  +0 OCV  +1 DCV  2d6 Strike; Target Falls 
 
15	Wealth 
5	Perk: Head of the Shadow Fist Society 
2	Perk: Respected businessman 
5	Bureacratics 14- 
3	KS: Psychology 13- 
3	Oratory 13- 
3	Persuasion 13- 
3	Trading 13- 
2	WF: Small Arms 
10	Lang: Catonese (4), English (3), French (3), Vietnamese (native) 
3	SL: +1 with PRE skills 
 
Disadvantages 
75	Base 
5	Age: 40+ 
10	Hunted: Yeoman 8- (AsPow) 
15	Phys: One Hand 
10	Psych: Bad Tempered 
15	Psych: Greedy 
6	Experience 
 
(Kien Phuc created by John J Miller, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:28:17 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Yeoman 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
YEOMAN 
(Daniel Brennan) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Yeoman is the Batman of the Wildcard's universe.  He is of average height, 
standing 5'10" and weighs a muscular 175 lbs.  Yeoman has coarse black 
hair, dark eyes, and dark tanned skin.  He normally dresses very casually, 
although when operating as Yeoman he does wear a face mask (and leaves an 
Ace of Spades as a calling card on or near his victims).  Yeoman got his 
start in the late 60's in Vietnam.  There is where he first met Kien Phuc 
(see) and first learned of Kien's criminal activities (which included 
selling secrets to the North Vietnamese).  Yeoman's attempts to expose 
Kien resulted in the death of Yeoman's wife, as well as the deaths of the 
men in his command.  Since the fall of Saigon occurred soon after, Yeoman 
stayed in Asia, eventually traveling to Japan to join a monastery where he 
learned Zen and perfected his archery skill.  Returning to America in the 
mid-80's, Yeoman again envounted Kien, now in New York City, and resumed 
his vendetta.   
 
Note: Yeoman's stats are far beyond what most people would expect from a 
'normal'.  It should be pointed out that Yeoman's GURPS stats are 
similarly quite high, and that he is highly trained and very competant.   
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		15		5 
Dex		26		48 
Con		20		20 
Body		15		10 
Int		14		4 
Ego		23		26 
Pre		20		10 
Com		10		0 
PD		7		4 
ED		6		2 
Spd		5		14 
Rec		8		2 
End		40		0 
Stun		32		0 
Char Total			145 
Power Total			190 
Total Cost			335 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
22	Multipower: Compound Bow, OAF 
1	u 2d6 RKA Broadhead arrows, 12 Charges  
1	u 6d6 EB: Explosive, Act 11-, 4 Charges 
 
1	+1 RMod with Multipower, OAF: Compound Bow 
 
	Martial Arts: Karate 
4	Block  +2 OCV  +2 DCV  Block, Abort 
4	Disarm  -1 OCV  +1 DCV  25 STR Disarm 
4	Dodge  +0 OCV  +5 DCV  Dodge vs All, Abort 
3	Legsweep  +2 OCV  -1 DCV  4d6 Strike; Target Falls 
4	Punch/Snapkick  +0 OCV  +2 DCV  5d6 Strike 
5	Side/Spin Kick  -2 OCV  +1 DCV  7d6 Strike 
 
8	Running: +4" (10" total) 
12	Perception: +4 
 
3	Breakfall 14- 
5	Demolitions 12- 
11	Fast Draw (Bow) 18- 
4	KS: Horticulture 13- 
5	KS: Philosophy 14- 
5	KS: Zen Archery 14- 
3	Paramedic 12- 
5	Persuasion 14- 
5	Stealth 15- 
7	Streetwise 15- 
3	Survival 12- 
3	Tactics 12- 
2	TF: Helicopter, Parachute 
3	Tracking 12- 
17	Weaponsmith: Bows 18- 
3	WF: Blades, Small Arms 
9	Lang: Catonese (1), French (2), Japanese (2), Spanish (1), 
	Vietnamese (3) 
6	SL: +2 with all INT-based Skills 
16	CSL: +2 with Combat 
6	CSL: +2 with Multipower 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
15	Hunted: Shadow Fist Society (Mopow) 8- 
20	Psych: Loyal to friends and allies 
15	Psych: Hunting Kein Phuc 
15	Psych: Justice, not Law 
0	Psych: Leaves an Ace of Spades as a 'calling card' 
15	SID: Daniel Brennan, US Army deserter 
155	Experience Bonus 
 
(Yeoman created by John J Miller, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:43:07 -0700 
From: salvador <salvador@cww.de> 
Reply-To: salvador@cww.de 
Subject: Der Drachenhort 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Der Drachenhort hat seine Tore geöffnet ! 
 
-Was ist der Drachenhort ?- 
 
Der Darchenhort ist von einem Rollenspieler für alle Rollenspieler 
gemacht. Deshalb weiß ich auch wonach es euch dürstet:  
a) Infos übers Rollenspiel  
b) Abenteuer und Regelerwiterungen und  
c) Ein Ort an dem man gebrauchtes RPG Zubehör günstig kaufen und 
verkaufen kann.  
 
-Kommerz ????- 
 
Nein !  
 
Ich bin Schüler, und habe weiß Gott nicht vor hier aus Geldgier einen 
proffesionellen Versand oder so was aufzumachen. Ich werde aller 
Wahrscheinlichkeit nach etwas Profit machen, aber immerhin stecke ich  
auch jede Menge Arbeit in das Projekt.  
 
-Wieso?- 
 
Ich habe gesehen wie günstig man in den USA gebrauchtes RPG Zubehör 
bekommt, und denke daß das auch bei uns in Deutschland funktioniert. 
Alle    Rollenspieler profitieren davon:  
a) Will man ein neues System ausprobieren, muß man nicht Unmengen an 
Geld investieren, um dann festzustellen, daß einem das Produkt nicht 
zusagt.  
b) Findet man ein Produkt, was man sich gekauft hat nicht so toll, kann 
man es immer weiterverkaufen, und muß es nicht jahrelang im Bücherregal 
anstarren, und sich  über die Fehlinvestition ärgern, sondern kann sich 
darüber freuen, daß jetzt andere Spieler damit jede Menge Spaß haben. 
c) Es ist einfach billiger. 
 
-Wo, Wie ?- 
 
Das ganze Projekt befindet sich gerade im Aufbau, deshalb ist mein 
Angebot etwas knapp. Also schreibt mir, wenn ihr etwas verkaufen wollt 
!: 
< salvador@cww.de > 
Unter dieser Adresse könnt ihr auch das aktuelle Angebot und die 
Versandbedingungen anfordern.  
Im Internet findet ihr meine Homepage unter:  
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/3493 
 
-Die Homepage: Infos für und von euch !- 
 
Auf der Homepage findet ihr ein -noch- relativ kleines Angebot, da 
größtenteils von mir allein geschrieben, an Infos zu TSR, den AD&D 
Welten, White Wolf und der World of Darkness Reihe. Eine Einführung für 
Anfänger ist von einem anderen Autor verfügbar. 
Und es gibt den Formwwandler als Klasse für AD&D herunterzuladen. Und 
natürlich Links.  
Und jetzt seid ihr gefragt: Habt ihr etwas in Richtung RPG/Fantasy 
geschrieben, von dem ihr glaubt, saß es für viele Spieler interessant 
ist ?  Dann schickt es an < salvador@cww.de >, und ich tus vielleicht 
(mein Platz ist beschränkt) auf die Homepage. 
 
-Anfänger ?- 
Auf meiner Homepage findest du eine Einleitung zu RPG, außerdem stehe 
ich für Fragen unter < salvador@cww.de > zur Verfügung. Unter bestimmten 
Umständen leite ich auch euer erstes Abenteuer. 
 
Ich hoffe bald von euch allen zu hören,   
 
euer Salvador 
 
P.S.  Wie schon gesagt kann dieses Projekt eine Berreicherung für alle 
RPG Spieler sein. Doch die Vorraussetzung ist, daß ihr bereti seid 
mitzuarbeiten. Es liegt  in eurem Interesse. 
 
 
X-Sender: avery1@pop.flash.net 
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 18:58:16 
From: John Turner <Avery1@flash.net> 
Subject: Re: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Well, not to blow my own horn, but I have a web page that is/will be 
featuring herosystem stuff from time to time.  The most notable is a 
nauseatingly comprehensive melee weapon list for fantasy hero.  It is in MS 
WORD 6.0 format.  There isn't a plain text version yet, as I don't want to 
realign all the tables. :p 
  It is at: 
http://www.flash.net/~avery1/heromain.htm 
 
Tell me what ya think... 
 
At 04:12 PM 6/1/97 -0500, R Jacobs wrote: 
> 
> 
>herolist wrote: 
>>  
>> From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
>> Subject: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
>> To: champ-l@omg.org 
>>  
>> One of the toughest parts of being a Champs GM is coming up with new 
>> scenarios that are more than 'the villians are robbing the bank - you 
>> all manage to arrive at the same time... phase 12!' 
>> 
>> /...snip/ 
>>  
>> This got me to wondering.. has anyone else stumbled on a non-champions 
>> web site that has information useful to a Champs GM? 
>>  
>> Todd 
> 
>On a related issue:  Anyone have any good Champs-RELATED sites?  I've 
>been searching the web for a few weeks and have found a severe lack of 
>sites.  I know they are out there...I'm just not finding them...what are 
>your FAVORITE CHAMPS sites? 
> 
> 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: R Jacobs <rjacobs@radiks.net> 
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 16:12:51 -0500 
Subject: Re: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
Newsgroups: october.hero 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october.com!not-for-mail 
Lines: 21 
X-Sender: rjacobs@dial46.radiks.net 
X-Reply-To: rjacobs@radiks.net 
Nntp-Posting-Host: dial46.radiks.net 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
herolist wrote: 
>  
> From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
> Subject: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
> To: champ-l@omg.org 
>  
> One of the toughest parts of being a Champs GM is coming up with new 
> scenarios that are more than 'the villians are robbing the bank - you 
> all manage to arrive at the same time... phase 12!' 
> 
> /...snip/ 
>  
> This got me to wondering.. has anyone else stumbled on a non-champions 
> web site that has information useful to a Champs GM? 
>  
> Todd 
 
On a related issue:  Anyone have any good Champs-RELATED sites?  I've 
been searching the web for a few weeks and have found a severe lack of 
sites.  I know they are out there...I'm just not finding them...what are 
your FAVORITE CHAMPS sites? 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley) 
Date: 01 Jun 97 23:44:06 GMT 
Subject: Source material 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october!darrin.kelley 
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *  
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 1 
 
 
 
    The recent release of The Babylon Project was something, at least 
locally, that was met with a great amount of anticipation. But other 
than simply being a good sourcebook on the Babylon 5 background, the 
game system itself is useless fluff. 
 
    The central problem with the Babylon Project is in the die rolling 
conventions they use. It is a straight target number based system. But 
unlike what was done in Fuzion, there is a straight 50-50 chance of 
success or failure, no matter how high a character's skill level is. 
Making any increase of stats or skills through experience a totally 
useless proposition. 
 
    Until recently, I was part of an official playtest group for the 
Babylon Project. The company itself made a titanic blunder from the 
outset. They published the game first and recruited the playtesters 
afterward. Which resulted in a slick looking product that is a truly 
inferior one. And judging from how the game worked in playtest, I'm not 
sure that they even knew if it worked before they published it in the 
first place. 
 
    My advice? If you choose to buy this game, don't use the system. 
Take the background and cull whatever you can from the character 
generation section and use another system. Like the Hero System, Fuzion, 
or even GURPS. 
___ 
 X SLMR 2.1a X Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up. 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Jim Dickinson <champion@cyberhighway.net> 
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 17:17:42 -0700 
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Subject: Re: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: hq.tcfarm.com ip 206.58.84.4 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: champion@cyberhighway.net 
X-Sender: champion@mailhost.cyberhighway.net 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
At 04:12 PM 6/1/97 -0500, you wrote: 
>On a related issue:  Anyone have any good Champs-RELATED sites?  I've 
>been searching the web for a few weeks and have found a severe lack of 
>sites.  I know they are out there...I'm just not finding them...what are 
>your FAVORITE CHAMPS sites? 
 
There's always the Circle of HEROs.  This is an ever-expanding ring of Hero 
related web pages... 
 
The URL is in the Sig below: 
 
 
_________________________________________________________________ 
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland. OR  USA -=- champion@cyberhighway.net 
Castle Game Knight:           http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/cgk 
Join the Circle of HEROs:     http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/coh 
----------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com> 
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 21:06:59 -0400 
Subject: Re: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
Newsgroups: october.hero 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october.com!not-for-mail 
Organization: Prometheus Corp. 
Lines: 11 
X-Sender: richberg@nrf-as5s10.erols.com 
Nntp-Posting-Host: nrf-as5s10.erols.com 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
herolist wrote: 
>  
> On a related issue:  Anyone have any good Champs-RELATED sites?  I've 
> been searching the web for a few weeks and have found a severe lack of 
> sites.  I know they are out there...I'm just not finding them...what are 
> your FAVORITE CHAMPS sites? 
 
I haven't looked at any in awhile, but there are some good ones.  
I start checking with the Circle Of Heroes sight listing at 
 
http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=coh&list 
 
From: Melidixon@aol.com 
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:16:33 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
try any of lthe heroes sites that is on the ring of heroes,(or hero ring, 
hero-ing, whatever).  If you don't like a site, it sure makes it easy to find 
another. 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Melidixon@aol.com 
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:16:33 -0400 (EDT) 
X-To: hero-l@october.com, champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: emout07.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.11.22 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: Melidixon@aol.com 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
try any of lthe heroes sites that is on the ring of heroes,(or hero ring, 
hero-ing, whatever).  If you don't like a site, it sure makes it easy to find 
another. 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Eric Pawtowski <epawtows@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu> 
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 04:04:36 -0400 (EDT) 
X-To: hero-l@october.com 
Subject: Re: Source material 
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>  
>     The central problem with the Babylon Project is in the die rolling 
> conventions they use. It is a straight target number based system. But 
> unlike what was done in Fuzion, there is a straight 50-50 chance of 
> success or failure, no matter how high a character's skill level is. 
> Making any increase of stats or skills through experience a totally 
> useless proposition. 
 
Suggestion: before you criticize a role-playing game, you might want  
to try reading the rules first.                        
 
    Eric 
 
 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 97 06:45:14 -0500 
X-To: "Multiple recipients of Hero" <hero-l@october.com&> <champ-l@omg.org> 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
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X-Status:  
X-UID: 3 
 
 
 
Eric Pawtowski  
>>     The central problem with the Babylon Project is in the die rolling 
>> conventions they use. It is a straight target number based system. But 
>> unlike what was done in Fuzion, there is a straight 50-50 chance of 
>> success or failure, no matter how high a character's skill level is. 
>> Making any increase of stats or skills through experience a totally 
>> useless proposition. 
> 
>Suggestion: before you criticize a role-playing game, you might want  
>to try reading the rules first.                        
> 
>    Eric 
 
The original poster was suposedly part of the Playtest group.  I would  
assume 
that means he HAS resd the rules.  If you're taking exception to his  
opinion, 
please site specific examples.  I haven't bought the rules yet and could  
be 
swayed either way by reasoned arguement, but personal attacks don't say  
anything about the game system itself.  My biggest grip with The Babylon  
Project 
is that, like in the Star Wars RPG, the rules don't allow for characters  
built 
along the same lines as the series.  In Star Wars, major players were  
built on  
60+ dice and characters started with only 7, in the Babylon Project  
they've 
got arbitrary rules like "no telepaths stronger than P5".  At least  
Champions 
generally allows for characters very similar in scope/nature to the  
comics it 
is pased upon. 
 
Comments? 
 
PAX. 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
 
Subject: Re: Source material 
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 97 06:45:14 -0500 
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 4 
 
Eric Pawtowski  
>>     The central problem with the Babylon Project is in the die rolling 
>> conventions they use. It is a straight target number based system. But 
>> unlike what was done in Fuzion, there is a straight 50-50 chance of 
>> success or failure, no matter how high a character's skill level is. 
>> Making any increase of stats or skills through experience a totally 
>> useless proposition. 
> 
>Suggestion: before you criticize a role-playing game, you might want  
>to try reading the rules first.                        
> 
>    Eric 
 
The original poster was suposedly part of the Playtest group.  I would  
assume 
that means he HAS resd the rules.  If you're taking exception to his  
opinion, 
please site specific examples.  I haven't bought the rules yet and could  
be 
swayed either way by reasoned arguement, but personal attacks don't say  
anything about the game system itself.  My biggest grip with The Babylon  
Project 
is that, like in the Star Wars RPG, the rules don't allow for characters  
built 
along the same lines as the series.  In Star Wars, major players were  
built on  
60+ dice and characters started with only 7, in the Babylon Project  
they've 
got arbitrary rules like "no telepaths stronger than P5".  At least  
Champions 
generally allows for characters very similar in scope/nature to the  
comics it 
is pased upon. 
 
Comments? 
 
PAX. 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
Subject: Re: House Rule suggestion for Side Effects 
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 97 08:08:16 -0400 
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net 
From: "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 5 
 
On 5/30/97 5:15 PM, Joe Claffey Jr. (jrc@mail1.nai.net) Said: 
 
> 
> The 12d6 EB that bypasses defenses is the *standard* way to do Side Effect 
>(at the -1 level). My method reduces it to 4d6. 
 
Sorry - I misunderstood: your'e still using a 60 AP attack. Sorry. 
 
  .oooO        | 
  (   ) Oooo.  | David A. Fair 
   \ (  (   )  | SDS International 
    \_)  ) /   | dfair@sdslink.com 
        (_/    | 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley) 
Date: 02 Jun 97 14:38:02 GMT 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Ftn-To: Asahoshi@Nr.Infi.Net 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october!darrin.kelley 
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *  
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 10 
 
 
 
AS>The original poster was suposedly part of the Playtest group.  I would 
AS>assume that means he HAS resd the rules. 
 
    Bingo! For once, somebody on this list was actually listening. 
 
    Up until two weeks ago, I was an active member of a sanctioned 
Babylon Project playtest group. I left because the "leader" of that 
group wasn't doing his job. Like reporting our comments on the game to 
the company. 
 
AS>If you're taking exception to his opinion, please site specific 
AS>examples.  I haven't bought the rules yet and could be swayed 
AS>either way by reasoned arguement, but personal attacks don't say 
AS>anything about the game system itself. 
 
    Personal attacks are a waste of time, anyway. They also lack 
maturity. 
 
    I swear, over the years I have gotten so flack for my criticisms 
of the inconsistancies in science fiction TV shows that it defies 
imagination. Rabid fans, especially Star Trek fans, just seem to go off 
whenever someone finds even the slightest blemish in the object of their 
obsession. My opinion on this? They need to get a clue and get a life! 
They are only TV shows. Good TV shows, mind you. But TV none-the-less. 
 
AS>My biggest gripe with The Babylon Project is that, like in the Star 
AS>Wars RPG, the rules don't allow for characters built along the same 
AS>lines as the series.  In Star Wars, major players were built on 60+ 
AS>dice and characters started with only 7, in the Babylon Project 
AS>they've got arbitrary rules like "no telepaths stronger than P5".  At 
AS>least Champions generally allows for characters very similar in 
AS>scope/nature to the comics it is based upon. 
 
    Largely, I do agree with this statement. 
___ 
 X SLMR 2.1a X --T-A+G-L-I+N-E--+M-E-A+S-U-R+I-N-G+--G-A+U-G-E-- 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley) 
Date: 02 Jun 97 14:47:00 GMT 
X-To: epawtows@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october!darrin.kelley 
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *  
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 9 
 
 
 
To: epawtows@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu 
 
EP>>     The central problem with the Babylon Project is in the die rolling 
EP>> conventions they use. It is a straight target number based system. But 
EP>> unlike what was done in Fuzion, there is a straight 50-50 chance of 
EP>> success or failure, no matter how high a character's skill level is. 
EP>> Making any increase of stats or skills through experience a totally 
EP>> useless proposition. 
 
EP>Suggestion: before you criticize a role-playing game, you might want 
EP>to try reading the rules first. 
 
    Try reading all of my message the next time before you jump down my 
throat. And you might have realized that my criticism had come from 
hands on experience. 
 
    I own a copy of the Babylon Project rulebook, and have gone over it 
thoroughly during the coarse of that playtest campaign. Which has lasted 
for months. The conclusions and opinions highlighted above are not 
only based on what I have delt with in play, but from the mathematical 
curve of its die rolling conventions. There is a such thing as a game 
system being too random. 
 
    Be that as it may, The Babylon Project is the only gaming source for 
concrete information on Babylon 5. A series I have liked alot and have 
been following since the very beginning. My only regret with the Babylon 
Project is that it is such an inferior product. One that doesn't do 
justice to the material it is based on. 
___ 
 X SLMR 2.1a X All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here. 
 
Comments: Authenticated sender is <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca> 
From: "Vance Scott" <vances@sympatico.ca> 
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:36:03 +0000 
Subject: The Infamous GM's Guide. 
Reply-to: vances@sympatico.ca 
CC: vances@sympatico.ca 
Priority: normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Foreword  
 
In an attempt to live up to my promises I present the following  
article. The enormity of writing a Guide to GameMastering, and  
Roleplaying became evident during my outlining. This effort falls  
short of my initial vision, but I needed to start or I never would.  
I welcome CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, and comments. 
 
Introduction 
 
A good place to begin a Guide to GameMastering is with roleplaying.  
Roleplaying is acting the part of another person. A roleplaying game is  
an activity where the participants derive enjoyment out of playing the 
various roles in a story, and  taking part in creation of a story. Roleplaying  
Games are best compared to improvisational theatre where the players take  
the part of actors, and the GameMaster that of director. Together  
the players, and the Game Master create the story of the heroes, and their  
world. The players job is that of  Actor, and Playwrite. The players role  
as actor is obvious, but the role of Playwright is often forgotten, or ignored.  
The players are responsible for the actions, and dialogue of the heroes making  
as important to the success of a game as the game master. The importance of  
the heroes, and therefore players to a story shouldn't be underestimated. The  
success, and enjoyment of a roleplaying game depends on both the players, 
and the Game Master. Usually; the players are responsible for the protagonists  
of a story, and the Game Master for the antagonists, and supporting  
characters. In order Guide Game Masters it is necessary to define the role that  
they play in a roleplaying game. A Game Master takes on the role of  
actor, director, and playwright. Taking on the three roles of a Game  
Master are obviously taxing. It is my hope that this guide will assist Game  
Masters in their efforts to run an meaningful, and enjoyable games. 
 
Authors Note: 
 
The following is a list of prospective topics please let me know if  
you think I'm missing something. I expect this list to be revised. 
 
1. Encouraging, and managing players 
2. Acting the many roles of a GM 
3. Managing, and Directing a Game 
4. The responsibility of story  
5. Outlining a Story 
6. Creating Characters 
7. Playing the Game 
 
Part II coming to a mail list near you. 
 
 
Vance Scott 
 
Vanquisher of all foes. 
 
Subject: Damage modifiers 
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 97 12:51:34 -0500 
From: Fugazi <fugazi@frontiernet.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-- [ From: Fugazi * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- 
 
Just wanted some feedback on this... 
 
	Say I have a +4D6 Hand-to-Hand attack that I bought with Armor Piercing and 
Double Knockback.  I also have a 30 strength.  Does the dice for strength 
get the modifiers also?  If not, how do you work figuring damage? 
	Any help would be appreciated. 
 
 
				-fugazi 
 
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 13:08:44 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
Subject: Re: Damage modifiers 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Fugazi wrote: 
>  
> -- [ From: Fugazi * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- 
>  
> Just wanted some feedback on this... 
>  
>         Say I have a +4D6 Hand-to-Hand attack that I bought with Armor Piercing and 
> Double Knockback.  I also have a 30 strength.  Does the dice for strength 
> get the modifiers also?  If not, how do you work figuring damage? 
>         Any help would be appreciated. 
 
 
I think this was covered in the Ultimate Martial Artist - you can add 
your strength to the attack, but you don't get the full 6d6 - you have 
to do a little figuring based on the advantages you applied. 
 
You have 30 active points of strength.  The armor piercing and the 
double knockback are a total of +1.25 advantage.  You have to figure out 
how much strength you can add that, with the +1.25 advantage adds up to 
30 active points.  In this case you can add about 13 strength to the 
attack (comes out to 29.25 active points), so you can get about 2.5 
extra dice on your attack. 
 
 
Make sense? 
 
Todd 
 
--  
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 Todd Hanson                       Minnesota: Land of two seasons: 
 BadTodd@dacmail.net               winter is coming, winter is here. 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:08:47 -0700 (PDT) 
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> 
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> 
Subject: Re: Damage modifiers 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Fugazi writes: 
> Just wanted some feedback on this... 
>  
>      Say I have a +4D6 Hand-to-Hand attack that I bought with Armor 
> Piercing and Double Knockback.  I also have a 30 strength.  Does the dice 
> for strength get the modifiers also?  If not, how do you work figuring 
> damage?      Any help would be appreciated. 
 
Your strength gets the advantages, but must also power them up.  Thus, since AP 
and double knockback are a total of a 2.25 advantage, you get +1d6 per 11.25 
strength you use to power up the attack.  In addition, you may not use more 
strength to power up the attack than you have active points in the HA, limiting 
you to 27 strength.  This gives a total of +2.4 dice; as this is not enough for 
a half-die, the total damage of the attack is 6d6 (AP, double knockback). 
 
X-Sender: orguss@popmail.gol.com 
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 04:11:38 +0900 
From: Michael House <macross@gol.com> 
Subject: Re: Damage modifiers 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 12:51 -0500 1997.06.02, Fugazi wrote: 
 
> 	Say I have a +4D6 Hand-to-Hand attack that I bought with Armor Piercing 
>and 
> Double Knockback.  I also have a 30 strength.  Does the dice for strength 
> get the modifiers also?  If not, how do you work figuring damage? 
> 	Any help would be appreciated. 
 
Quoting from Ninja Hero, pp. 47-48: 
 
Power Advantage: Armor-Piercing 
 
An example: Let's say a character has STR 15 and a slew of (martial arts) 
maneuvers giving him up to 7d6 damage. He can buy: 
Example: Hand-to-Hand Attack, 4d6, 0 END (+1/2), Armor-Piercing (+1/2); 
24 pts. 
This will give him a 6d6 armor-piercing normal attack. 
You might be asking yourself, why doesn't it give him 7d6? STR 15 is 3d6, 
plus 4d6 from H-to-H Attack equals 7d6, right? Well, that's wrong--in this 
case. 
4d6 of H-to-H Attack is 12 points' worth of power (not counting the 
Armor-Piercing advantage). Therefore, the character, since he has not 
bought Armor-Piercing for his STR, can only add 12 STR to it--for +2d6. 
Thus, it's a 6d6 attack. If he were to buy Armor-Piercing for his STR, 
he could have his full 7d6. 
 
HTH ALAL, 
 
 
Be Seeing You... 
--Michael House, macross@gol.com, www.gainax.co.jp 
GAINAX Co., Ltd. (Opinions expressed are my own unless otherwise specified) 
Jibun no ishi o motanu nara, ikiteitemo shikata arumai 
 
 
From: HoosierJA@aol.com 
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:07:47 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Damage modifiers 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
In a message dated 97-06-02 14:02:27 EDT, fugazi@frontiernet.net (Fugazi) 
writes: 
 
> Say I have a +4D6 Hand-to-Hand attack that I bought with Armor Piercing and 
>  Double Knockback.  I also have a 30 strength.  Does the dice for strength 
>  get the modifiers also?  If not, how do you work figuring damage? 
>  	Any help would be appreciated. 
 
I think not.  I would make you buy AP and 2xKB on your strength as well as 
your HtH attack.   
 
Now if these were increased DCs with a martial arts, and you had bought the 
martial attack with AP and 2xKB I'd probably let you have it.  I dunno...I'd 
have to check my books. 
 
Jay A. 
 
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> 
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:34:58 -0500 (CDT) 
Subject: Wrack power  again 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
Actually, I thought about this more again over the weekend. 
I think it's still useful as a separate power from draining/suppressing 
endurance because: 
 
1) you might want to do more damage than the using stun as endurance rules 
cause 
 
2) you want to be sure to be able to affect everybody without limiting 
yourself by how much endurance you can drain or suppress 
 
Curt 
 
 
 
----- Begin Included Message ----- 
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> 
 
D'oh !  Thanks to all who pointed out that the spending stun as endurance  
rules nicely takes care of this, assuming you can nullify all of somebody's 
endurance.    
 
Curt  
----- End Included Message ----- 
 
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> 
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:45:09 -0500 (CDT) 
Subject: CHAR: Turtle's shell 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
> From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com> 
>  
> Well, since TK clearly states that you can't use TK to move yourself around. 
> You can't pick up an object with TK, step on it, then fly around like the 
> Silver Surfer. So you have to buy flight to simulate it. At most, the 
> flight's special effect is Turtle's TK. 
>  
>  
Sorry !  Touched a pet peeve.  I'll admit up front that this is hardly 
worth quibbling over.  
 
1) the Turtle uses telekinesis to move his shell around.  The shell should 
have no movement ability of it's own.  Perhaps movement based on the Turtle's 
TK ? 
 
2) Hero system "Telekinesis" does not let you lift yourself.   The stated 
reason for this in the rules is that "there is no action/reaction" with 
telekinesis.  This is absurd and incorrect.  If "there is no action/reaction" 
with telekinesis, then you CAN lift yourself.  Be that as it may, the last 
time I was whining about this, somebody wisely pointed out that the Hero 
System powers can be interpreted only by what they allow, rather than what 
the corresponding 'non-Hero' system power actually would allow.   
 
Curt  
 
 
 
 
From: "David McKee" <David@moof.clrs.com> 
Subject: subscribe 
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 97 16:04:29 -0700 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
subscribe 
 
Finally noticed I wasn't getting any ChampEmail!  =( 
 
 
 
 
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| FileMaker Pro Product Team Lead |      3.0     HOME PAGE     4.0    | 
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From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Turtle's shell 
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:18:45 -0400 (EDT) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>  
> 1) the Turtle uses telekinesis to move his shell around.  The shell should 
> have no movement ability of it's own.  Perhaps movement based on the Turtle's 
> TK ? 
    
  That's what it should have, yes.  Which I would buy as either the Turtle's 
Flight with a "Only while in HID" limitation, or as the Shell's flight 
with a "Only while occupied by the Turtle" limitation (probably a -0 
limit in most games, anyway).  In both cases, the SFX of the Flight is  
"The Turtle is lifting it with his TK". 
 
> 2) Hero system "Telekinesis" does not let you lift yourself.   The stated 
> reason for this in the rules is that "there is no action/reaction" with 
> telekinesis.  This is absurd and incorrect.  If "there is no action/reaction" 
 
The actual reason for this is the overall Hero metarule "You cannot use one 
power to do something that another power does."  Which means that if you 
want to fly, you have to use Flight.  You can't use TK to lift yourself. 
You can't use massive amounts of Stretching to swing under orbiting 
sattelites.  You can't use "Transform:  Person into Person Flying through  
Air".  Etc, etc.   
  The whole action/reaction bit was an attempt by the Hero authors to  
come up with a pseudo-physics reason.  In my opinion, they shouldn't have 
bothered to try, they just should have said "Look.  If you want to pick 
yourself up with your TK, then buy flight and use a TK SFX!".   
  Yes, this does lead to the occasional illogical situation of a powerful 
telekinetic falling to his death.  That's a case of a player who neglected 
to purchase all the logical abilities that his set of powers should include. 
(Admittedly, if I were GMing a case where a relatively new character 
fell off an office building like that, I'd probably let the character pick 
himself with TK and tell the player to buy some Flight with his experience 
for that session). 
 
> System powers can be interpreted only by what they allow, rather than what 
> the corresponding 'non-Hero' system power actually would allow.   
 
  Another way of stating that would be "Pay attention to the power's 
description, not it's name". TK is "The ability to lift objects at 
range".  Nothing more, nothing less.  The name "Telekinesis" is just 
a carrying handle for the power description, not the power itself. 
 
  A fair number of Hero rules will allow some ridiculous situations to 
those who don't pay enough attention to stuff like that.  Another 
example is Growth:  A giant standing a half-kilometer tall who can only 
tiptoe at 6" per phase?  Oops, that guy should have boght extra 
Running with SFX of "Really, REALLY big legs". 
Yes, extra Growth could have had more Running built in.  But there are 
some concepts that call for big immobile people.  To me, it's simpler 
to tell Paul Bunyon to buy more movement than to figure out what "Gains 
no ground movement from size" is worth for The Amazing Oak. 
 
                                               Daniel Pawtowski 
 
X-Sender: ctaylor@mailhost.cyberhighway.net 
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 18:38:10 -0700 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberhighway.net> 
Subject: HA Game 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 1 
 
Has anyone ever seen the Murphy's laws for Computers?  Naturally, the DAY I 
want to start the game, we start to have Hard Drive troubles... The drive 
has been recussitated (it is naked on the desk here, sad little thing) long 
enough to get files off of it and let everyone know that there will be... 
sigh... a delay.   
 
I hate to do it on the Champs list, but this is the easiest way to get the 
information to everyone quickly and efficiently.  I am sorry about this, I 
anticipate getting everything running again by the end of the week... but I 
anticipated starting today too... 
 
Soo, see you when I get back on line, and thank God I was able to get on 
long enough to let you know what is up. 
 
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 12:48:40 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 4 
 
At 04:12 PM 6/1/97 -0500, you wrote: 
> 
> 
>herolist wrote: 
>>  
>> From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
>> Subject: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
>> To: champ-l@omg.org 
>>  
>> One of the toughest parts of being a Champs GM is coming up with new 
>> scenarios that are more than 'the villians are robbing the bank - you 
>> all manage to arrive at the same time... phase 12!' 
>> 
>> /...snip/ 
>>  
>> This got me to wondering.. has anyone else stumbled on a non-champions 
>> web site that has information useful to a Champs GM? 
>>  
>> Todd 
> 
>On a related issue:  Anyone have any good Champs-RELATED sites?  I've 
>been searching the web for a few weeks and have found a severe lack of 
>sites.  I know they are out there...I'm just not finding them...what are 
>your FAVORITE CHAMPS sites? 
> 
> 
 
 
 
i really liked:    
 
http://users.intercomm.com/redwolf/scm/origina;.html 
 
but it seems to have vanished . . . 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Eric Pawtowski <epawtows@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu> 
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 22:53:37 -0400 (EDT) 
X-To: hero-l@october.com 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu ip 128.173.43.251 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: epawtows@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 2 
 
 
 
>  
> The original poster was suposedly part of the Playtest group.  I would  
> assume 
> that means he HAS resd the rules.  If you're taking exception to his  
 
And I was in a playtest group about a year and a half before he was. 
I had to leave the game for job reasons. 
 
Admittedly, the rules were very much in their infancy that early and  
I haven't played since they were finalized, but I found most of his factual  
points innacurate, and I disagree with his opinions. 
 
I believe the fact that I was in a playtest that long ago negates one  
of his major arguments, that the game was not playtested before it was  
published.  It was playtested by quite a number of people besides myself. 
 
> opinion, 
> please site specific examples.  I haven't bought the rules yet and could  
 
I have a better idea.  I forwared his post to Joe Cochran, the author of  
the game.  Here is Joe's response, which he composed for this list: 
 
 
m: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley) 
>> Date: 01 Jun 97 23:44:06 GMT 
>> Subject: Source material 
>>  
>>     The recent release of The Babylon Project was something, at least 
>> locally, that was met with a great amount of anticipation. But other 
>> than simply being a good sourcebook on the Babylon 5 background, the 
>> game system itself is useless fluff. 
> 
>        You're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I feel that you 
>have gotten a few facts wrong. 
> 
>>     The central problem with the Babylon Project is in the die rolling 
>> conventions they use. It is a straight target number based system. But 
>> unlike what was done in Fuzion, there is a straight 50-50 chance of 
>> success or failure, no matter how high a character's skill level is. 
>> Making any increase of stats or skills through experience a totally 
>> useless proposition. 
> 
>        While it is a fairly standard skill+attribute+roll system, it  
>is NOT a 50-50 chance of success or failure. It uses a spectrum of  
>success and failure that allows you to determine not only S/F, but 
>the degree of S/F in one roll. I'm not sure how you figure 50-50.  
> 
>>     Until recently, I was part of an official playtest group for the 
>> Babylon Project. The company itself made a titanic blunder from the 
>> outset. They published the game first and recruited the playtesters 
>> afterward. Which resulted in a slick looking product that is a truly 
>> inferior one. And judging from how the game worked in playtest, I'm not 
>> sure that they even knew if it worked before they published it in the 
>> first place. 
>> 
>>        This is patently untrue. While you may not agree with the results 
>of the playtesting, we DID have playtest groups before yours (if you were 
>in the one I'm assuming you're in). In fact, except for your note, I've 
>only seen criticism of our look. Most people seem to think that the  
>mechanics are pretty nice. 
> 
>>     My advice? If you choose to buy this game, don't use the system. 
>> Take the background and cull whatever you can from the character 
>> generation section and use another system. Like the Hero System, Fuzion, 
>> or even GURPS. 
> 
>        My advice is to read a few unbiased reviews before deciding.  
>Since neither Darrin nor I can really provide that, check out this  
>month's Pyramid and Shadis or look at the reviews of this "contorversial" 
>game at www.rpg.net. 
>        If you DO choose to buy it only for source material, please drop 
>me a line and tell me what you didn't like about the mechanics: I'm  
>always happy to hear it. 
> 
>Thanks to Eric and Daniel Pawtowski for passing this along. 
>--  
>This is a .sig proxy. 
>jsciv@bev.net 
>*--Joe--* 
>Author, The Babylon Project 
> 
 
 
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 13:08:09 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 3 
 
At 04:04 AM 6/2/97 -0400, you wrote: 
> 
> 
>>  
>>     The central problem with the Babylon Project is in the die rolling 
>> conventions they use. It is a straight target number based system. But 
>> unlike what was done in Fuzion, there is a straight 50-50 chance of 
>> success or failure, no matter how high a character's skill level is. 
>> Making any increase of stats or skills through experience a totally 
>> useless proposition. 
> 
>Suggestion: before you criticize a role-playing game, you might want  
>to try reading the rules first.                        
> 
>    Eric 
> 
 
um, didn't he say he helped playtest?  
 
> 
> 
> 
 
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 13:16:57 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 5 
 
<lots of stuff ""edited"" out> 
 
 
> At least  
>Champions 
>generally allows for characters very similar in scope/nature to the  
>comics it 
>is pased upon. 
> 
>Comments? 
> 
>PAX. 
> 
> 
 
this is the beuty of our system!!! apart from the vehicle and dogfight rules . . 
 hey- i don't suppose anyone is intested in my-  
naahh, forget it!. 
 
Anyway . . . 
 
the callenge of the bablyon project seems to have been to set a game in the  
b5 setting, without useing the "shadow war" scenario to heavily. i think. sorta. 
"Limiting" the higher ends is required, because unlike hero there is no mechanism for  
an.. . um . .. "framework?" for characters like that. in hero it is fully ok for  
a hero to have a 20d6 eb, BUT there are still many rules against it. Why? various reasons- the most important being that it doesn't fit the setting, and the ways the characters are supposed to act. This is the star wars/   B5 rationale as well, and it is more viable for them because the sustem is just not built as cool as hero. 
 
X-Sender: champion@mailhost.cyberhighway.net 
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 23:36:51 -0700 
From: Jim Dickinson <champion@cyberhighway.net> 
Subject: Re: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 6 
 
Not this this site is particularly useful, but if anyone is interested, I 
have just posted my review/experience/whatever with the NorthWest GameFest, 
which happens to be the "biggest" convention in the Portland/Salem, Oregon 
area.  Mind you...this isn't saying much. 
 
Anyway, if you want to read anything about my weekend there, feel free at: 
 
http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/cgk/nwgf97.html 
 
 
Jim 
 
 
_________________________________________________________________ 
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland. OR  USA -=- champion@cyberhighway.net 
Castle Game Knight:           http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/cgk 
Join the Circle of HEROs:     http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/coh 
----------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
From: boaters@ix.netcom.com 
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 02:47:31 -0400 
Subject: test 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 27 
 
I am just seeing if I have been removed from the list. 
 
Sorry to take up space. 
 
Darin 
 
Comments: Authenticated sender is <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca> 
From: "Vance Scott" <vances@sympatico.ca> 
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:08:57 +0000 
Subject: Re: The Infamous GM's Guide. 
Reply-to: vances@sympatico.ca 
CC: hero-l@emerald.omg.org 
Priority: normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 11 
 
> >The following is a list of prospective topics please let me know if  
> >you think I'm missing something. I expect this list to be revised. 
> > 
> >1. Encouraging, and managing players 
How to handle players in your Game. 
 
> >2. Acting the many roles of a GM 
Some Acting advise for GMs. The many roles are the characters the GM  
must play in the Game. 
 
> >3. Managing, and Directing a Game 
How to direct your players during the game. Getting players to help  
you tell your collective story. 
 
> >4. The responsibility of story  
 
 
> >5. Outlining a Story 
How to create a plot line for a story. 
 
> >6. Creating Characters 
Some advice on how to create, and characterize your characters for  
your stories. 
 
> >7. Playing the Game 
Book keeping, and other important work the GM must do. 
  
> could you'all be a bit more specific?  
>  
> > 
> >Part II coming to a mail list near you. 
> > 
> > 
> >Vance Scott 
> > 
> >Vanquisher of all foes. 
> > 
>  
>  
 
Vance Scott 
 
Vanquisher of all foes. 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley) 
Date: 03 Jun 97 11:43:00 GMT 
X-To: epawtows@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october!darrin.kelley 
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *  
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 28 
 
 
 
To: epawtows@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu 
 
EP>And I was in a playtest group about a year and a half before he was. 
EP>I had to leave the game for job reasons. 
 
    Fair enough. A reason equally as acceptable as the one I had for 
leaving. 
 
EP>Admittedly, the rules were very much in their infancy that early and 
EP>I haven't played since they were finalized, but I found most of his factual 
EP>points innacurate, and I disagree with his opinions. 
 
    An admission of ignorance. Fair enough. But my own rulebook is what 
I based my opinion on, as well as how the system preformed in play. The 
die rolling conventions are something that definately put me off. There 
is a such thing as being too random. 
 
    But I will also admit a large part of how any system is percieved is 
heavily influenced by how well the GM presents it. And the GM I had been 
dealing with is definately not a very good one. 
 
EP>I believe the fact that I was in a playtest that long ago negates one 
EP>of his major arguments, that the game was not playtested before it was 
EP>published.  It was playtested by quite a number of people besides myself. 
 
    No, it doesn't. Initial playtest groups do not have a significant 
enough impact on the final product. It takes continuous playtest 
throughout the entire design of a new game to find and work out the 
bugs. And as I was told by the GM I delt with, who is a recognized agent 
of that company, had simply not been done. 
 
EP>I have a better idea.  I forwared his post to Joe Cochran, the author of 
EP>the game.  Here is Joe's response, which he composed for this list: 
 
    Which, since you were so kind as to print his address, I will be 
responding to directly. My reasons for this are as follows: 
 
1) I will definately be mentioning the name of the GM whose group I 
left, and the particulars of why. 
 
2) Most of this subject matter has drifted far off-topic from the 
original purpose of this list. 
___ 
 X SLMR 2.1a X I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it? 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley) 
Date: 03 Jun 97 11:45:04 GMT 
X-To: epawtows@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october!darrin.kelley 
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *  
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 29 
 
 
 
To: epawtows@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu 
 
EP>>        My advice is to read a few unbiased reviews before deciding. 
EP>>Since neither Darrin nor I can really provide that, check out this 
EP>>month's Pyramid and Shadis or look at the reviews of this "contorversial" 
EP>>game at www.rpg.net. 
 
    Arcane is a better source for RPG reviews. They currently lend 
themselves to less biase than the two you mentioned above. 
___ 
 X SLMR 2.1a X Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch! 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net> 
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:59:20 -0400 (EDT) 
X-To: hero-l@october.com 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: access2.digex.net ip 205.197.245.193 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: dpawtows@access.digex.net 
Organization: VTSFFC 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 12 
 
 
 
>  
>     Try reading all of my message the next time before you jump down my 
 
He did.  You don't appear to have been reading his, either. 
 
> throat. And you might have realized that my criticism had come from 
> hands on experience. 
 
And your experience is rather less than Eric's, it would appear.  Two 
important points of your initial posting were that the die rolls are 
heavily based on a flat 50% probability, and that playtesting did not 
occur before publication.  Both of those are patently false. 
 
                                             Daniel Pawtowski 
 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net> 
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:19:20 -0400 (EDT) 
X-To: hero-l@october.com 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: access2.digex.net ip 205.197.245.193 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: dpawtows@access.digex.net 
Organization: VTSFFC 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 13 
 
 
 
 
Oh argh.  That last one was supposed to be private mail, not to  
the list.  Sorry about that, I'm trying to take this off the list. 
 
 
                                            Daniel Pawtowski 
 
 
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:45:23 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Popinjay 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 18 
 
POPINJAY 
(Jay Ackroyd) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Meet Popinjay (he hates that nickname), possessor of one of the *sickest* 
powers you will ever see in a Champions character.  He's a projecting 
teleport with the ability to 'pop' anyone he sees to *anywhere* he's been. 
He has a number of standard locations (such as the NYPD 'Tombs').  His 
range seems to be unlimited (I stopped at allowing him to teleport 
anywhere on Earth).  Jay Ackroyd is a rather average looking man, 
middle-aged man who stands about 5'8" and weighs 145 lbs.  He has brown 
hair, brown eyes and usually dresses in worn suits.  He is a competent PI, 
specializing in divorce and missing person cases.  He's quite savvy when 
dealing with people and can often tell if someone is lying or other wise 
trying to avoid telling the truth. 
 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		10		0 
Dex		14		12 
Con		13		6 
Body		12		4 
Int		15		5 
Ego		14		8 
Pre		13		3 
Com		10		0 
PD		4		2 
ED		3		0 
Spd		3		6 
Rec		5		0 
End		26		0 
Stun		24		0 
Char Total			46 
Power Total			417 
Total Cost			463 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
336	Teleport: 10", x1,048,576 noncombat (~13,000 miles) (+100 pts),  
	x2 Mass (+5 pts), 10 Fixed Locations (+10 pts), 1 Floating 
Location (+5 pts),  
	Usable Against Others (+1), Ranged (+1), 0 END (+1/2), Gestures 
(-1/4) 
 
6	Enhanced Perception: +2 
5	Detect: Lies 13- 
1	Perk: Private Detectives License 
5	AK: New York City 14- 
3	Conversation 12- 
7	Deduction 14- 
2	KS: Law 11- 
3	KS: Photography 12- 
7	Lockpicking 14- 
3	Persuasion 12- 
4	SC: Psychology 14- 
3	Security Systems 12- 
9	Shadowing 14- 
3	Stealth 12- 
3	Streetwise 12- 
1	WF: Pistol 
3	SL: +1 with PRE powers 
3	RSL: +4 vs RMod with Teleport 
10	CSL: +5 OCV with Teleport 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
5	DF: Constant wisecracks, even if in great danger 
5	Poor 
20	Psych: Code vs Killing 
15	Psych: Dislikes guns, won't carry one 
318	Experience 
 
(Popinjay created by George R R Martin, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:55:23 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Sewer Jack (human) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 21 
 
SEWER JACK 
(John Richard Robicheaux) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Sewer Jack is a small man, standing 5'8" and weighing about 145 lbs.  He 
has dark brown hair and dark eyes.  A native of Ateleir Parish, Louisiana, 
Jack ran away to New York after discovering his wildcard talent; the 
ability to shapeshift into an alligator.  Getting a job with the NYC 
Transit Authority, he became a track-checker, living most of his life 
underground.  If angered, or threatened, Jack will shapeshift into his 
'gator form.  He can try and stop this with an Ego roll, with the result 
that he may gain secondary alligator chracteristics for a few moments 
before returning to his 'normal' form. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		13		3 
Dex		15		15 
Con		15		10 
Body		13		6 
Int		12		2 
Ego		11		2 
Pre		10		0 
Com		10		0 
PD		3		0 
ED		3		0 
Spd		3		5 
Rec		6		0 
End		30		0 
Stun		28		0 
Char Total			43 
Power Total			32 
Total Cost			75 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
4	AK: New York City 13- 
5	AK: New York Subway System 14- 
3	Electronics 11- 
3	Mechanics 11- 
2	PS: NYC Transit Authority Track Checker 11- 
5	Stealth 13- 
1	TF: Subway Car 
3	Lang: Cajun French (native), English (3) 
6	CSL: +2 with Block, Dodge, Punch 
 
Disadvantages	 
25	Base 
10	Accidental Change: Into Alligator form, triggered by undue stress 
	(11-) 
5	Poor 
10	Psych: Prefers to be left alone 
15	SID: Homosexual 
10	Experience 
 
(Sewer Jack created by Edward Bryant, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:57:03 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Sewer Jack (alligator) 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
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X-UID: 19 
 
SEWER JACK 
(John Richard Robicheaux - Alligator form) 
 
Designers Notes: 
This is Sewer Jacks were-alligator form.  Larger and stronger than most 
'normal' alligators, jack is approximately 12 to 14 feet long in this 
form.  He has powerful jaws, and is quite capable of biting of a targets 
arm or foot if needed.  When in this form, Jack's human consciousness 
become secondary to the more primal urges of his alligator form. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		23		8 
Dex		15		15 
Con		18		16 
Body		20		18 
Int		3		-7 
Ego		5		-10 
Pre		18		8 
Com		10		0 
PD		9		5 
ED		8		4 
Spd		4		15 
Rec		12		8 
End		40		2 
Stun		37		0 
Char Total			82 
Power Total			97 
Total Cost			179 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
7	Growth: 1 Level, 0 END, Persistant, Always On 
	+5 STR, +1 BODY, +1 STUN, -1" KB, 12' Long, 400 lbs 
16	1d6+1 HKA (bite), Reduced Penetration, END 2 
9	+2d6 HA (tail lash), 0 END 
9	Armor: +3 PD, +3 ED 
-6	-3" Running (3" total) 
4	Swimming;J+4" (6" total) 
3	+1 with all Perception 
6	+3 with Hearing Perception 
6	+3 with Smell Perception 
5	Extra Limb - Tail 
11	Concealment 14- 
10	CSL: +2 w/HTH 
2	CSL: +1 OCV with Tail Lash 
 
15	Multiform: to John Richard Robicheaux 
 
Disadvantages	 
100	Base 
15	Phys: No Fine Manipulation 
5	Phys: Cannot Leap 
15	Phys: Hiberantes in cold weather 
10	Psych: Constantly hungry 
15	Psych: Bad Tempered 
19	Experience 
 
(Sewer Jack created by Edward Bryant, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
From: boaters@ix.netcom.com 
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 17:58:15 -0400 
Subject: subscribe 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 26 
 
Please re-subscribe me to the list 
 
 
Thank you  
 
	Darin 
 
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:02:23 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Wyungare 
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WYUNGARE 
(Warreen) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Wyugare is an Australian aborigine.  He stands 5'9" tall and weighs 135 
lbs, with a well muscled frame.  He has dark skin, dark eyes, curly black 
hair and a broad flat nose.  His wildcard talent allows him to enter the 
Dreamtime (the land that is hte aboriginal origin of all things), and even 
to take others there.  Other creatures inhabit the Dreamtime, either 
beings created by the wildcard or the creations of these wildcard beings 
themselves.  
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		13		3 
Dex		18		24 
Con		18		16 
Body		14		8 
Int		14		4 
Ego		18		16 
Pre		15		5 
Com		16		3 
PD		6		3 
ED		5		1 
Spd		4		12 
Rec		7		0 
End		36		0 
Stun		30		0 
Char Total			95 
Power Total			75 
Total Cost			170 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
38	Extra Dimensional Movement: The Dreamtime, x2 Mass, 0 END 
 
4	Running: +2" (8" total), END 1 
6	Enhanced Perception: +2 
 
4	AK: Australia 14- 
5	AK: Dreamtime 15- 
4	KS: Dreamtime 14- 
9	Survival 15- 
2	WF: Boomerang, Spear 
3	Lang: Aboriginal (native), English 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
10	Destitute 
10	Psych: Sense of duty to the Aborigine people 
5	Psych: Desires the return of Aboriginal lands 
45	Experience 
(Wyungare created by Edward Bryant, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:13:48 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Mackie Messer 
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[I can't remember if I posted Mackie before or not.  If I did, I'm posting 
this version to bring more in line with the way he's written in Wildcards 
5, "Ace in the Hole".  I've dropped his ability to attack while Desolid, 
as well as pumping up his PD and ED.] 
 
MACKIE MESSER 
(Detlev Mackintosh aka 'Mack the Knife') 
 
Designers Notes: 
Mackie is a thin, pale, hunchbacked little man.  He stands 5'7" and weighs 
all of 125 lbs.  He has straw colored hair, sunken cheeks, bad skin, and 
is prone to facial tics.  He is usually very scruffily dressed, often 
dressing in jeans and a battered leather jacket.  Unfortunately, Mackie 
also happens to be a very potent ace.  His power is the ability to 
resonate his body's molecular structure, allowing him to walk through 
walls, as well as granting him the ability to make his hands vibrate so 
rapidly that they can cut through anything.  Note Mackie's Damage Shield, 
which represents his using his vibrating hands to block an opponent's 
strikes.  
  
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		8		-2 
Dex		9		-3 
Con		15		8 
Body		12		4 
Int		10		0 
Ego		10		0 
Pre		10		0 
Com		8		-1 
PD		7		5 
ED		6		3 
Spd		3		11 
Rec		5		0 
End		30		0 
Stun		30		6 
Char Total			31 
Power Total			207 
Total Cost			238 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
75	3d6 HKA, AP, Penetrating, 0 END, Not vs Force Fields (-1/2) 
31	1 1/2d6 RKA, Penetrating, Damage Sheild, 0 END, Not vs Force  
	Fields (-1/2), Must be aware of attack (-1/2) 
60	Desolidification: Affected by vibrational, sonic powers, 1/2 END, 
	END 2 
 
3	Ambidexterity 
3	Contact: Senator Greg Hartman 12- 
1	KS: Politics 8- 
1	KS: Scrounging 8- 
9	Streetwise 14- 
1	Survival (city streets) 8- 
3	Lang: English (German native) 
20	CSL: +4 with HTH 
 
Disadvantages	 
100	Base 
10	DF: Thin, pallid hunchback 
20	Psych: Hates just about everyone (Jews, jokers, homosexuals, 
	homeless, the rich) 
15	Psych: Sadistic, likes to instill fear and cause pain 
15	Psych: Likes to kill 
176	Experience 
 
(Mackie Messer created by Victor Milan, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:16:49 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Wyrm 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
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WYRM 
 
Designers Notes: 
Wyrm is Kien Phuc's bodyguard and right hand man.  He is very tall, very 
strong, and very tough.  He looks like a scaleless humanoid reptile.  He 
can inject a paralytic poison with his bite, and his tongue is sensitive 
enough to track someone long after they have left the area. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		23		13 
Dex		20		30 
Con		30		40 
Body		22		24 
Int		8		-2 
Ego		9		-2 
Pre		18		8 
Com		8		-1 
PD		10		5 
ED		8		2 
Spd		4		10 
Rec		11		0 
End		60		0 
Stun		49		0 
Char Total			127 
Power Total			158 
Total Cost			285 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
12	1d6 HKA (2d6 w/STR), Reduced Penetration, END 1 
53	Drain: 4d6 vs DEX, Recovers 5 points per 5 Minutes (+1/2), 0 END, 
	Linked to HKA, HKA must do Body (-1/2) 
5	Discriminatory Smell 
5	Discriminatory Taste 
10	Enhanced Perception: +5 with smell/taste group 
20	Targeting Sense: Smell 
10	Tracking Scent 
 
4	Contact: Kien Phuc 13- 
6	AK: New York City 15- 
2	KS: Shadow Fist Society 11- 
2	PS: Bodyguard 11- 
3	Stealth 13- 
3	Streetwise 13- 
13	Tracking 16- 
10	CSL: +2 with HTH 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
10	DF: Tall scaleless, reptilian joker 
25	Berserk: Combat 11-/8- 
20	Psych: Loyal to Kein Phuc 
5	Rep: Tough, mean and violent joker/ace 8- 
125	Experience 
 
(Wyrm created by (unknown), character sheet created by Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 09:08:54 +1000 
From: Steven Clark <nahema@mailbox.uq.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Damage modifiers 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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X-UID: 25 
 
HoosierJA@aol.com wrote: 
>  
> In a message dated 97-06-02 14:02:27 EDT, fugazi@frontiernet.net (Fugazi) 
> writes: 
>  
> > Say I have a +4D6 Hand-to-Hand attack that I bought with Armor Piercing and 
> >  Double Knockback.  I also have a 30 strength.  Does the dice for strength 
> >  get the modifiers also?  If not, how do you work figuring damage? 
> >       Any help would be appreciated. 
>  
> I think not.  I would make you buy AP and 2xKB on your strength as well as 
> your HtH attack. 
>  
 If he bought AP ad double knockback on his Str, he'd be able to add and 
extra 6 dice 
to the attack, but just punching someone would then do 6 dice AP & 2xKB 
which 
I don't think is the intended effect... basically I'd let the 30 Str add 
6 damage classes to the attack, which equates to about 2.5 dice. 
 
I agree with whoever it was that said you could only add as much 
strength as 
active points in the HA power, but I'm pretty sure this only applies to 
heroic  
settings, not to Superheroic games. 
 
but cant quote rules at you as I'm at work at present  :) 
 
Steven 
 
Steven 
 
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X-Smtp-Mail-From: atra@pacbell.net 
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 21:34:39 -0700 
From: "Sage D'eenyaw, Attorney-at-rules(TM)" <atra@pacbell.net> 
Organization: APA (American Powergamers Association) 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay 
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> POPINJAY 
> (Jay Ackroyd) 
>  
> Designers Notes: 
> Meet Popinjay (he hates that nickname), possessor of one of the *sickest* 
> powers you will ever see in a Champions character.  He's a projecting 
> teleport with the ability to 'pop' anyone he sees to *anywhere* he's been. 
 
> COST    POWERS & SKILLS 
> 336     Teleport: 10", x1,048,576 noncombat (~13,000 miles) (+100 pts), 
>         x2 Mass (+5 pts), 10 Fixed Locations (+10 pts), 1 Floating 
> Location (+5 pts), 
>         Usable Against Others (+1), Ranged (+1), 0 END (+1/2), Gestures 
> (-1/4) 
 
	So, where's the "Not usable by Self" limitation? 
 
Wayne (currently rereading the entire WC series (1-12 & new cycle 1-3) 
and 
am midway through 10, the Takis adventure, eagerly awaiting to read 
about 
Blaise getting what he deserves, again.) 
 
--  
1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890 
Join the American Powergamers' Association! 
Improving the rules-knowledge of AD&D players, one group at a time. 
atra@pacbell.net http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3704 
 
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 02:43:33 -0500 
From: Joel Vallejo <jvallejo@bellsouth.net> 
Reply-To: jvallejo@bellsouth.net 
Subject: DC:HOV- fuzion 
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X-UID: 31 
 
I am thinking of running a DC:HOV campaign under Fuzion rules.  The 
campaign would allow low level superpowers, but I am concerned with 
gadgets for the characters.  My question is should utility belt gadgets 
be built using option  points/money or power points.  My players are 
split on the issue, so the decision falls to me.  I looked over the 
rules, and they seem to indicate that common gadgets should be built 
with OP, while complex ones might be built with PP.  I would appreciate 
anyone's input on this issue.   
 
joel 
 
X-Sender: ghost@softfarm.com 
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 05:15:09 -0500 
From: ghost@softfarm.com (Bryce Berggren) 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
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X-UID: 33 
 
At 09:34 PM 6/3/97 -0700, Sage D'eenyaw, Attorney-at-rules(TM) wrote (in 
response to Michael Surbrook): 
>> POPINJAY 
>> (Jay Ackroyd) 
>>  
>> Designers Notes: 
>> Meet Popinjay (he hates that nickname), possessor of one of the *sickest* 
>> powers you will ever see in a Champions character.  He's a projecting 
>> teleport with the ability to 'pop' anyone he sees to *anywhere* he's been. 
> 
>> COST    POWERS & SKILLS 
>> 336     Teleport: 10", x1,048,576 noncombat (~13,000 miles) (+100 pts), 
>>         x2 Mass (+5 pts), 10 Fixed Locations (+10 pts), 1 Floating 
>> Location (+5 pts), 
>>         Usable Against Others (+1), Ranged (+1), 0 END (+1/2), Gestures 
>> (-1/4) 
> 
>	So, where's the "Not usable by Self" limitation? 
 
While we're nitpicking, the bit about having to visualize the location he pops 
them to should be worth at least a -1/4 (Concentration, perhaps?). Several times 
in the series, he has to fight off panic, stress, confusion, etc. to try and  
mentally focus enough to use his power ("Ti Malice Gets His" pops to mind). 
 
H. G. 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Chuff78002@aol.com 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:27:04 -0400 (EDT) 
X-To: hero-l@october.com 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: emout10.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.11.25 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: Chuff78002@aol.com 
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X-UID: 34 
 
 
 
In a message dated 03/06/97  11:52:26am, you write: 
 
<<   I own a copy of the Babylon Project rulebook, and have gone over it 
 thoroughly during the coarse of that playtest campaign. Which has lasted 
 for months. The conclusions and opinions highlighted above are not 
 only based on what I have delt with in play, but from the mathematical 
 curve of its die rolling conventions. There is a such thing as a game 
 system being too random. 
  >> 
 
Having actually at last seen a copy here in the UK, I agree with Darin.  I 
would use it only as a scource for other systems.  Actually, I do like west 
end's Star Wars rpg, I think it's fast and easy to run/play but that's just 
my humble opinion. 
Sorry, Babylon 5 fans...the game mechanics of Babylon project suck....... 
 
Darin's is only being frank and honest with folks.  Somebody out there will 
like it, but i don't personally.  If I buy it, i will probably use it as a 
scource for a Star Hero game, or even convert it to the star wars system 
rules.....or white wolf's D10 system...now there's  a thought.... 
 
Chuff78002. 
 
From: Chuff78002@aol.com 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 08:27:08 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Uthden Troll Background at last ! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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                                        The Uthden Troll 
                                        (MTG/FH Conversion no. 6) 
 
"Wot ! Is you implying that wer'e violent !   Nahh, not us gov'nor....we's 
just misunderstood, that's wot we are !   
Culture ! Pah!, Yes, we be cultured gov'nor, sorry miss, ( I do apologise, my 
eyesight's not wot it used to be) we do not spend all our time warrin' and 
fightin'.  Those Keldon wussies don't have a clue missus ! 
 
Nahh, we 'ave music.  Can I arrange a concert for you missus ?  OI!, 
BOGBREATH !, 
STRIKE UP THE OL' BAND WILL YA ? 
 
At this point I switched off the recording device, as a most unharmonius din 
was produced by a five piece orchestra.  Instruments seemed to be made of 
glass, bone and rock and made the most horrendous din (and they say that the 
Brassclaw and Ironclaw Orcs are uncouth !)  
By the way, the above instruction was achieved with a large, heavy, spiked 
mallet...not a pretty sight ! 
 
Oh That brings tears to the eyes that does ! <sniff>, (for all the wrong 
reasons, I can tell you ! ), now where wuz I....Oh yeah, we 'as religion we 
do !  Yup, we worship the great God, Wazzisname the Nameless... 
An' we 'ave festivals an' rituals. Rituals ? Allrighty ! .  Well, there's the 
traditional head banging session that is known as the council of  Hittin' 
Things (translation is crude but he meant Council of War) which 'appens as 
regular as clockwork, every Noonsday.  We discuss 'ow's wer'e gonna teach our 
ene...ene...ene....those that cheese us off , a lesson....that usually ends 
in a fight..... 
 
Then we does 'ave the marriage ritual, which involves a short courtship 
display.  It's called bowling the maiden over, and it consists of several of 
our 'ere georgeous la...females, standing in a group of ten.  The groom then 
bowls towards them a large rock like rock, and knocks 'em down....those that 
are left standing are taken as 'is wives....if the supply of females 
outnumbers the males then the females get to do the same to the men ! 
What 'appens to the ones that get knocked over that are already 
paired....well, they get shared guv'nor !  Usually an arm and a leg each ! 
 
Then we 'as the funeral rite....the rite of the cooking pot...this for our 
fallen comrades and the dead of our enemies and it.....ohh, you've 
guessed.... 
 
<switched off machine, whilst reporter lost her lunch, breakfast AND last 
night's supper> 
 
Usually, 'as that effect on you weak stomached 'umans....fancy Leg Of 
Benalish Stew ?  <machine switched off again......> 
 
 
I left the Uthden Troll camp intact, except for the contents of and including 
my stomach lining, and left them to it. 
The above shows that they are truly, repulsive, barbaric and very uncouth 
indeed !  Their pot bellied appearance is owed to their habit of eating 
anything that moves and quite a few things that don't....Uthden's are 
nomadic...now, I know why !!!!!! 
 
They have the constitution and manners of an Ox and the bad breath and body 
odour of  avery large, unwashed object indeed.  I am glad that my researches 
are over.  Now all I've got to do as part of my coursework is to find the 
Nesting site of the Dragon Whelp...... 
 
                                                 Leila Dale's Journals 
                                                 AC 345, 
                                                 The Year of the Armageddon 
Clock. 
 
 
 
CHuff78002. 
PS, Character sheet to follow soon...... 
 
 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:50:11 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 35 
 
On Wed, 4 Jun 1997, Bryce Berggren wrote: 
 
> >> POPINJAY 
> >> (Jay Ackroyd) 
> >>  
> >> Designers Notes: 
> >> Meet Popinjay (he hates that nickname), possessor of one of the *sickest* 
> >> powers you will ever see in a Champions character.  He's a projecting 
> >> teleport with the ability to 'pop' anyone he sees to *anywhere* he's been. 
> > 
> >> COST    POWERS & SKILLS 
> >> 336     Teleport: 10", x1,048,576 noncombat (~13,000 miles) (+100 pts), 
> >>         x2 Mass (+5 pts), 10 Fixed Locations (+10 pts), 1 Floating 
> >> Location (+5 pts), 
> >>         Usable Against Others (+1), Ranged (+1), 0 END (+1/2), Gestures 
> >> (-1/4) 
> > 
> >	So, where's the "Not usable by Self" limitation? 
>  
> While we're nitpicking, the bit about having to visualize the location he pops 
> them to should be worth at least a -1/4 (Concentration, perhaps?). Several times 
> in the series, he has to fight off panic, stress, confusion, etc. to try and  
> mentally focus enough to use his power ("Ti Malice Gets His" pops to mind). 
 
Okay, it has been pointed out that Popinjay's power needs the follwoing:  
 
Armor Piercing or some sort of NND effect to allow Jay to 'pop' people 
protected by Hardended defenses.  I also realized that he either needs GM 
permission or some sort of Advantage to counteract the 'Full Phase' part 
of poping a target and using al those NMC doublings.  I looked real long 
and hard at "Usable on Others" and figured that "Not usable by self" was 
built in to the power  (am I right?).  Finally, the concentrate part 
doesn't sound bad, but he can usually pop people pretty quickly... 
 
Watch this space for a re-write (suggestions welcome). 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:59:47 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
Reply-To: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Wildcards character questions 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 36 
 
Okay, having written up what seems to be a zillion Wildcards adaptions (so 
far) I'm now reaching the really 'tough' characters.  So, I thought I'd 
canvas a few opinions before tackling these guys. 
 
1) How would one define Bagabond's ability to summon and control animals? 
Summon and Mind Control seem to be the obvious choices with the "limited 
class of creatures" for Summon.  What sort of limitation would it be for 
"Animals must arrive under own power"?  And any sort of limitaiton for 
"Animals only" on the Mind Control?  Her ability to see the world around 
througfh the eyes of animals looks to be neat SFX for Clairsentience. 
Finally, she is a friend to all animals (they just come up and hang around 
her) would this be a power of SFX? 
 
2) Water Lilly's power to 'create' water.  Transform vs Air?  If so, who 
mcuh water does one get?  Also she can draw all the water out of some one 
(leaving a pile of white powder behind) I was going to use Drain (vs 
Body).  Would an RKA work better?  If so how? 
 
3) Fortunato - any suggestions on his powers? 
 
4) The Astronomer - ditto... esp his ability to send his 'astral' from 
just about anywhere in the universe.  He seems to have a desolid form that 
can affect solids, as well as shapeshift itself into assorted forms (pure 
visual affects though). 
 
5) Hiram's gravity control.  I was considering TK since it would allow 
hiim to push and pull things (esp at range).  But he can make something so 
light it will float away, and if he increases something's weight the 
effects last for some time (dissipating gradually).  Any suggestions here? 
 
6) Demise's death stare.  My first idea was RKA AVLD (Ego Defense).  Then 
I considered a Continous Drain vs Ego Defense (a -1/4 lim since Ego Def is 
*much* more common than Power Def).  He can also stun some one with it... 
any suggestions here? 
 
Any and all useful suggestions will be considered, so thanks for your 
time. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
From: BeerCarboy@aol.com 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:02:46 -0400 (EDT) 
cc: catdrag@vnet.net, champion@cyberhighway.net, deejay@cu-online.com, 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu, sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Wyungare 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 38 
 
You don't give any powers to represent the control he has over the Dreamtime. 
 How would you handle that? 
 
 
 
 
BeerCarboy@AOL.com                                Carter Humphrey 
 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:09:46 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: susano@access.digex.net, champ-l@omg.org, catdrag@vnet.net, 
        champion@cyberhighway.net, deejay@cu-online.com, 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu, sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Wyungare 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 37 
 
On Wed, 4 Jun 1997 BeerCarboy@aol.com wrote: 
 
> You don't give any powers to represent the control he has over the Dreamtime. 
>  How would you handle that? 
 
Well... 
 
1) The GURPS write-up (from which this was adapted) didn't list any. 
 
2) I just read WC book 4 and I don't remember him being able to control 
the Dreamtime 
 
3) Is this something that showed up later, and if so, what sort of control 
did he have? 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
X-Sender: ludator@softfarm.com 
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:22:03 -0500 
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren) 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 09:50 AM 6/4/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>Armor Piercing or some sort of NND effect to allow Jay to 'pop' people 
>protected by Hardended defenses.  I also realized that he either needs GM 
>permission or some sort of Advantage to counteract the 'Full Phase' part 
>of poping a target and using al those NMC doublings.  I looked real long 
>and hard at "Usable on Others" and figured that "Not usable by self" was 
>built in to the power  (am I right?).  Finally, the concentrate part 
>doesn't sound bad, but he can usually pop people pretty quickly... 
 
"Not usable by self" is apparently *not* built into the UAO advantage.  You 
can always use the power on yourself -- that is, "shoot" yourself with the 
UAO ability -- just as you could shoot yourself in the head with your own RKA. 
 
Popinjay can't, even if he points his finger at himself and "shoots", so 
this is worth the extra limitation. 
 
-- 
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ 
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely.               | 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ 
   Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html 
 
Subject: Re: Wildcards character questions 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 97 13:17:01 -0400 
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net 
From: "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>1) How would one define Bagabond's ability to summon and control animals? 
>Summon and Mind Control seem to be the obvious choices with the "limited 
>class of creatures" for Summon.  What sort of limitation would it be for 
>"Animals must arrive under own power"?  And any sort of limitaiton for 
>"Animals only" on the Mind Control?  Her ability to see the world around 
>througfh the eyes of animals looks to be neat SFX for Clairsentience. 
>Finally, she is a friend to all animals (they just come up and hang around 
>her) would this be a power of SFX? 
> 
Try buying Extra Presence & Comliness, Only Vs. Animals (-1 to -2) 
 
>5) Hiram's gravity control.  I was considering TK since it would allow 
>hiim to push and pull things (esp at range).  But he can make something so 
>light it will float away, and if he increases something's weight the 
>effects last for some time (dissipating gradually).  Any suggestions here? 
> 
Hmmm... Transform? 
 
 
  .oooO        | 
  (   ) Oooo.  | David A. Fair 
   \ (  (   )  | SDS International 
    \_)  ) /   | dfair@sdslink.com 
        (_/    | 
 
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com> 
Subject: Re: Wildcards character questions 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:07:41 -0400 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
> 1) How would one define Bagabond's ability to summon and control 
animals? 
> Summon and Mind Control seem to be the obvious choices with the 
"limited 
> > class of creatures" for Summon.   
>  
Mind Scan, too, in case she's looking for a specific animal. I think she 
located Sewer Jack this way once. 
 
> What sort of limitation would it be for 
> > "Animals must arrive under own power"?   
>  
Extra Time: 1 Turn is a -1 lim. I think that's a pretty good value to go 
with. She'll rarely get any immediate help, and she'll occasionally have 
to wait a minute or more. 
 
> And any sort of limitaiton for 
> > "Animals only" on the Mind Control?   
>  
Depends whether you go by Ultimate Mentalist rules or not. Either -0 or 
-1/2. 
 
> Her ability to see the world around 
> > through the eyes of animals looks to be neat SFX for Clairsentience. 
>  
Yes. I've done this before with a bird-controller named Talon. He had 
Clairsentience, area effect, increased area x 8 (= 4 1/2 miles) with a 
limitation of depends on birds in the area, at a -1. Since Bagabond's 
power depends on any animal, not just any bird, I'd give her a -1/4 or 
-1/2. 
 
> Finally, she is a friend to all animals (they just come up and hang 
around 
> > her) would this be a power of SFX? 
>  
Animal Handling, invisible power effects. 
 
 
> 2) Water Lilly's power to 'create' water.  Transform vs Air?  If so, 
who 
> much water does one get?   
 
This has always been a peeve of mine, but the way the rules are, this is 
your best bet. The amount of water is the BODY of air that was affected. 
 
Alternately, you could define a change environment or EB, and water is 
just the sfx. 
 
> Also she can draw all the water out of some one 
> (leaving a pile of white powder behind) I was going to use Drain (vs 
> Body).  Would an RKA work better?  If so how? 
 
This depends on whether you think she could affect Golden Boy. If not, 
then his Power Defense must be stopping her drain. If so, then an RKA 
NND, does BODY. Defense is not being water based or full life support 
(but Golden Boy might have this, too). 
 
 
> 3) Fortunato - any suggestions on his powers? 
 
He seems to be able to do anything shen he needs it. His powers are so 
vague, it's hard to get a handle on them. 
 
 
> 4) The Astronomer - ditto... esp his ability to send his 'astral' from 
> just about anywhere in the universe.  He seems to have a desolid form 
that 
> can affect solids, as well as shapeshift itself into assorted forms 
(pure 
> visual affects though). 
 
His astral would probably have to be clairsentience with huge area, or 
some N-Ray + telescopic vision deal. Or else a desolid + teleport (yuck) 
or a desolid + EDM (pretty yuck). 
 
 
> 5) Hiram's gravity control.  I was considering TK since it would allow 
> hiim to push and pull things (esp at range).  But he can make 
something so 
> light it will float away, and if he increases something's weight the 
> effects last for some time (dissipating gradually).  Any suggestions 
here? 
 
Flight UAO Continuous? 
 
 
> 6) Demise's death stare.  My first idea was RKA AVLD (Ego Defense). 
Then 
> I considered a Continous Drain vs Ego Defense (a -1/4 lim since Ego 
Def is 
> *much* more common than Power Def).  He can also stun some one with 
it... 
> any suggestions here? 
 
The hard part here is deciding how his duel with Puppetman was done. Was 
Puppetman a multiform who was killed, or does Demise have some transform 
versus multiple personalities built into his stare? How did Hartmann 
really survive? 
 
Dave Mattingly 
 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:18:57 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: Re: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 04:12 PM 6/1/97 -0500, R Jacobs wrote: 
> 
> 
>herolist wrote: 
>>  
>> From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
>> Subject: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
>> To: champ-l@omg.org 
>>  
>> One of the toughest parts of being a Champs GM is coming up with new 
>> scenarios that are more than 'the villians are robbing the bank - you 
>> all manage to arrive at the same time... phase 12!' 
>> 
>> /...snip/ 
>>  
>> This got me to wondering.. has anyone else stumbled on a non-champions 
>> web site that has information useful to a Champs GM? 
>>  
>> Todd 
> 
>On a related issue:  Anyone have any good Champs-RELATED sites?  I've 
>been searching the web for a few weeks and have found a severe lack of 
>sites.  I know they are out there...I'm just not finding them...what are 
>your FAVORITE CHAMPS sites? 
> 
No Joke!  I have had fits finding sites for Champions.  Even when I do it 
seems that half the ones I find listed are not longer up and running.  I 
will say that one relativly useful jumping point is the Champions and Hero 
subdivisions of Yahoo!  I don't recommend trying altavista unless you are 
very patient.  You'll get a few thousand hits most of which have nothing to 
do with the game. 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:21:41 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: 206.228.212.10 ip 206.228.212.10 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: absga@elbertonga.com 
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Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
At 04:12 PM 6/1/97 -0500, R Jacobs wrote: 
> 
> 
>herolist wrote: 
>>  
>> From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
>> Subject: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
>> To: champ-l@omg.org 
>>  
>> One of the toughest parts of being a Champs GM is coming up with new 
>> scenarios that are more than 'the villians are robbing the bank - you 
>> all manage to arrive at the same time... phase 12!' 
>> 
>> /...snip/ 
>>  
>> This got me to wondering.. has anyone else stumbled on a non-champions 
>> web site that has information useful to a Champs GM? 
>>  
>> Todd 
> 
>On a related issue:  Anyone have any good Champs-RELATED sites?  I've 
>been searching the web for a few weeks and have found a severe lack of 
>sites.  I know they are out there...I'm just not finding them...what are 
>your FAVORITE CHAMPS sites? 
> 
No Joke!  I have had fits finding sites for Champions.  Even when I do it 
seems that half the ones I find listed are not longer up and running.  I 
will say that one relativly useful jumping point is the Champions and Hero 
subdivisions of Yahoo!  I don't recommend trying altavista unless you are 
very patient.  You'll get a few thousand hits most of which have nothing to 
do with the game. 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net> 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:44:00 -0400 (EDT) 
X-To: hero-l@october.com 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
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Organization: VTSFFC 
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X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
>  
>     Arcane is a better source for RPG reviews. They currently lend 
> themselves to less biase than the two you mentioned above. 
 
  Didn't Arcane go out of business? 
 
                                                 Daniel Pawtowski 
 
 
Date: 	Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:21:16 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
X-Sender: rscott@uhunix4 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
As for non-combat, Mr. Popinjay managed an interstellar transport, I 
believe. 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:27:24 -0400 (EDT) 
Organization: VTSFFC 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
> >  
> > Popinjay can't, even if he points his finger at himself and "shoots", so 
> > this is worth the extra limitation. 
>  
> Sounds like Personal Immunity to me. 
>  
  Not quite.  Personal Immunity is an advantage and makes you immune to any 
harmful effects of your own power.  This could happen- say, if he shot 
at somebody with Missile Refection who managed to bounce the teleport 
beam back (I haven't read Wild Cards, so I don't know the SFX used), 
then PI would keep him from going anywhere. 
   However, the vast majority of the time, this is a disadvantage,  
possibly a harmful one.  If he wants to get across town, he can *porf* 
his entire team there instantly.  But, as I understand it, he'd have to 
walk the distance himself.  Stick him and a friend into a death trap: he 
can zap the friend to safety, but he's still stuck with no way out. 
  As opposed to the given example of an RKA:  there are very few  
beneficial results to inflicting one of those onto yourself. 
Personal Immunity is a pure Advantage- if a character  
with a PI RKA suddenly *needed* to inflict damage upon himself with 
his own attack, I'd probably let him.  Flame-based guy needs to  
disinfect a wound from a rotting mummy, perhaps?  However, in the majority 
of cases, you'll only be hit by your own RKA at times when you don't 
want to be, like when shooting at a Missile Reflector.  I'm sure PopinJay 
would love to be able to teleport himself. 
 
                                                Daniel Pawtowski 
 
Date: 	Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:33:23 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
X-Sender: rscott@uhunix4 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Wildcards character questions - Fortunato 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Here's my WoD write up of Fortunato - it might help you 
 
 
>From owner-gm-l@netcom.com  Fri Apr 28 18:47:15 1995 
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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 15:47:32 -0600 
From: SCOTT_RICHARD <scotrich@cwis.isu.edu> 
Newsgroups: alt.games.whitewolf,rec.games.frp.misc 
Subject: Kundalini Rising - Fortunato (1.0) 
Organization: Idaho State University, Pocatello 
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        rscott@mail.coin.missouri.edu 
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Precedence: list 
Status: OR 
 
 
Fortunato 
 
Nature   : Deviant/Bon Vivant/Loner 
Demeanour: Deviant/Bon Vivant/Loner 
Concept  : Middle-aged ex-pimp, drop out meditating Mage. 
Card     : Ace 
 
Fortunato is a half-black half Japanese man who has been called the 
Most Powerful Ace in the World by Dr. Tachyon. His mother was Ichiko, a 
geisha. Fortunato ran a string of very high-class educated call-girls he 
called geishas. He was instrumental in taking down the Astronomer after 
several run-ins with him. He is the ace equivalent of a very powerful 
Cult of Ecstasy Mage, his focus being the requirement for tantric sex 
acts to charge his Quintessence pool, basically drawing Quintessence from 
his sex partners. 
 
Physical  Social  Mental 
 
STR  2    CHA 4   PER 5 
DEX  2    MAN 4   INT 3 
STA  3    APP 3   WIT 4 
 
Talents           Skills           Knowledges 
 
Alertness     4   Etiquette     4  Cosmology    2 
Awareness     5   Leadership    2  Engimas      3 
Intuition     5   Research      3  Linguistics  1 
Streetwise    3                    Occult       4 
Subterfuge    2 
 
Allies        4   Tachyon, Brennan, his geishas and others 
Contacts      5   Dogen plus lots of others. 
Status        2   This is Wild Card Status, is known as sympathetic. 
Influence     2   Knows lots of people, in two countries. 
Library       2 
Arcane        2 
 
Conscience    3 
Self-Control  3 
Courage       4 
 
Humanity      6   Fortunato has grown a bit cold and distant lately. 
Willpower    10   This boy is tough. 
 
Merits and Flaws 
 
 
 
Health Levels     Normal Human 
 
 
Quintessence :    Maximum when charged after tantric sex 
 
Power        :    110 
 
Ace Powers 
 
Basically, his Ace powers translate into the equivalents of these Mage 
Spheres. 
 
Foci : must have sexual activity to recharge his power. 
 
Forces :    5 
Life   :    4 
Matter :    1 
Mind   :    5 
Prime  :    3 
Spirit :    4 
Time   :    4 
 
Notes 
 
After Fortunato has sex and withholds orgasm to intromit his sperm and 
power along his spine his forehead bulges with the power. If Fortunato 
does orgasm, he can transfer his power into others, as seen with his 
coin-collector girlfriend and Peregrine. 
 
In Japan, Fortunato has been studying with an ace Monk named Dogen with 
the ability to block mental powers. 
 
 
 
 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 08:02:57 +1000 
From: Steven Clark <nahema@mailbox.uq.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Wildcards character questions 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>  
>  
> 3) Fortunato - any suggestions on his powers? 
>  
 
I'd make them a Power Pool of mental powers that runs off an end 
reserve. 
This mimicks his ability to do pretty much any mental powers, and you 
can 
give him either: 
 1) 0 Rec on the End reserve, and a triggered 0 End aid to end 
				(Only when performs tantric sex) 
 
 2) Huge Rec on the End reserve, only recovers during tantric sex 
 
> 4) The Astronomer - ditto... esp his ability to send his 'astral' from 
> just about anywhere in the universe.  He seems to have a desolid form that 
> can affect solids, as well as shapeshift itself into assorted forms (pure 
> visual affects though). 
>  
 
The problem with the Astronomer is that hes basically a plot device. His 
astral form has pretty much infinite range, this would tend to equate to 
pretty much infinite points, depending on how you do it... Powers like 
this 
I'd tend to just work out the effects, and not worry about the point 
cost. 
Its not like hes built on a limited number of points like us Players 
are... 
 
Steven 
 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:11:02 -0700 
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell) 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay 
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-> From mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu Wed Jun  4 14:25:12 1997 
-> Mime-Version: 1.0 
-> Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay 
-> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 
-> X-Hero: champ-l 
-> To: champ-l@omg.org 
->  
-> On Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:22:03 -0500, 
-> ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren) wrote about Re: CHAR: Popinjay: 
-> > At 09:50 AM 6/4/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
-> > >Armor Piercing or some sort of NND effect to allow Jay to 'pop' people 
-> > >protected by Hardended defenses.  I also realized that he either needs GM 
-> > >permission or some sort of Advantage to counteract the 'Full Phase' part 
-> > >of poping a target and using al those NMC doublings.  I looked real long 
-> > >and hard at "Usable on Others" and figured that "Not usable by self" was 
-> > >built in to the power  (am I right?).  Finally, the concentrate part 
-> > >doesn't sound bad, but he can usually pop people pretty quickly... 
-> >  
-> > "Not usable by self" is apparently *not* built into the UAO advantage.  You 
-> > can always use the power on yourself -- that is, "shoot" yourself with the 
-> > UAO ability -- just as you could shoot yourself in the head with your own RKA. 
-> >  
-> > Popinjay can't, even if he points his finger at himself and "shoots", so 
-> > this is worth the extra limitation. 
->  
-> Sounds like Personal Immunity to me. 
->  
->  
 
You want him to *pay* points so his power won't work as well as it normally 
would??? 
 
								-Sam 
 
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:44:20 -0500 (CDT) 
Subject: Wildcards - Fortunato 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
Michael Surbrook writes: 
 
> 3) Fortunato - any suggestions on his powers? 
>  
A variable power pool operating off an endurance reserve.  The endurance 
reserve is recharged by having sex.    
 
Curt Hicks 
 
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net> 
Subject: One more for Babylon 5 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:47:42 -0400 (EDT) 
Reply-To: jsciv@bev.net 
Organization: VTSFFC 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
Once more into the fray:  The author of the B5 RPG wanted to make one 
more statement to the list, and he's chosen me to send it for him 
this time: 
 
 I recommend that any comments be sent directly to Joe at the address 
below, not to the list, we're far enough off-topic already. 
 
 
----- Forwarded message from jsciv@bev.net ----- 
 
>From jsciv@bev.net Wed Jun  4 17:35:12 1997 
From: jsciv@bev.net 
Subject: Re: Source material (fwd) 
To: dpawtows@access.digex.net (Daniel Pawtowski) 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:34:51 -0400 (EDT) 
 
---begin message--- 
 
	I just have one last set of notes on the comments I've seen  
about The Babylon Project on this list. I appreciate Darrin's candor 
(and others), and I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions of the 
game. I just want to make sure that the facts are straight. 
	First, after talking to Darrin in private e-mail, I have  
discovered that he was NOT in a playtest group after all. Certain 
people will need to be "talked with" on this one, and I apologize 
to Darrin for the misrepresentation. 
	Second, the odds are not 50-50 on task resolution. Darrin's 
point was more directed toward the idea that the dice are too  
random for his tastes. If you're interested in the actual odds, I'll 
be glad to send them to you privately. 
	Third, several people have noted that the game system is in 
the same ideological vein as Star Wars in that the characters do not  
generally start as heros, but are "average Joe" types. This was  
indeed our intention, but something I think that we did not adequately 
convey was that there CAN be heros. This will have to be fixed as we 
go. As you may or may not know, we wanted to appeal to non-RPG  
types as well as devoted gamers, and this required a bit more  
simplicity than many of you prefer. 
	Fourth, I would have loved to have seen Arcane review TBP,  
but with their cessation of publication that just doesn't look to be. 
I named Pyramid and Shadis because those are reviews I know about. 
 
	Finally, I'm a storytelling type of gamer, and the type of 
game we wrote was in that vein rather than the hard-number type that 
many of you are used to. If you have bought the game and find the  
mechanics not to your taste, please feel free to adapt it to  
something else. But don't give up hope: the supplements were always 
meant to give a little more "crunch" to the game. If you don't like 
the background OR the mechanics, drop me a note explaining what  
sucked and we'll see what we can do.  
 
	Thanks again to Daniel Pawtowski for his help, and thanks to 
you for bearing with me. 
 
--  
This is a .sig proxy. 
jsciv@bev.net 
*--Joe--* 
 
----- End of forwarded message from jsciv@bev.net ----- 
 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay 
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 97 19:54:15 -0500 
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Robert Rutherford 
 
>On Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:22:03 -0500, 
>ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren) wrote about Re: CHAR: Popinjay: 
>> At 09:50 AM 6/4/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>> >Armor Piercing or some sort of NND effect to allow Jay to 'pop' people 
>> >protected by Hardended defenses.  I also realized that he either needs GM 
>> >permission or some sort of Advantage to counteract the 'Full Phase' part 
>> >of poping a target and using al those NMC doublings.  I looked real long 
>> >and hard at "Usable on Others" and figured that "Not usable by self" was 
>> >built in to the power  (am I right?).  Finally, the concentrate part 
>> >doesn't sound bad, but he can usually pop people pretty quickly... 
>>  
>> "Not usable by self" is apparently *not* built into the UAO advantage.  You 
>> can always use the power on yourself -- that is, "shoot" yourself with the 
>> UAO ability -- just as you could shoot yourself in the head with your own  
>RKA. 
>>  
>> Popinjay can't, even if he points his finger at himself and "shoots", so 
>> this is worth the extra limitation. 
> 
>Sounds like Personal Immunity to me. 
 
Personal Immunity only applies if the effect would be detrimental.  Being  
able 
to teleport yourself is advantageous.  Hence if you can't it should be a 
limitation. 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: R Jacobs <rjacobs@radiks.net> 
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 23:14:46 -0500 
Subject: Possession Power 
Newsgroups: october.hero 
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Hello gang, 
 
	Okay...I'm starting out as a new gamemaster for Champions 4th Ed. and 
I'm working with my players on developing characters...one of them wants 
to play a character who can physically possess any machine with an 
electrical component (he changes into electrical energy and then enters 
the machine to control it)..... 
	Now I know that there was a villain printed in one of the Champions 
supplements who had a similar power and I believe it was defined as 
"Mind Control v/s machines" or something.  For some reason the villain 
name "Overdrive" rings a bell... 
 
	Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can develop a "possession" 
power versus machines? Does anybody know of the villain I'm referring to 
and how the power was accomplished with said villain? 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley) 
Date: 05 Jun 97 08:33:04 GMT 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Ftn-To: Dpawtows@Access.Digex.Ne 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october!darrin.kelley 
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *  
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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X-Status:  
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DP>  Didn't Arcane go out of business? 
 
    I don't know. I saw a recent issue with a review of Champions: New 
Millenium in it at a local game store. I also saw a review of The 
Babylon Project. 
___ 
 X SLMR 2.1a X Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up. 
 
From: Chuff78002@aol.com 
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:01:02 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Wildcards character questions 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
In a message dated 04/06/97  11:14:49pm, you write: 
 
<< > 1) How would one define Bagabond's ability to summon and control 
 animals? 
 > Summon and Mind Control seem to be the obvious choices with the 
 "limited 
 > > class of creatures" for Summon.   
 >  
 Mind Scan, too, in case she's looking for a specific animal. I think she 
 located Sewer Jack this way once. 
  >> 
 
Yup she sure did..Wild Cards vol 2 (original series) Jokers Wild. 
Chuff78002 
PS Looking for the spin off novels...anyone got the titles list for me ? 
 
From: "Gordon W. Rycroft" <gwr1@ukc.ac.uk> 
Subject: Re: Source material 
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:41:49 -0400 (EDT) 
Priority: NORMAL 
X-Authentication: none 
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X-Status:  
X-UID: 2 
 
On Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:44:00 -0400 (EDT) Daniel Pawtowski  
<dpawtows@access.digex.net> wrote: 
  
>>     Arcane is a better source for RPG reviews.  
 
>  Didn't Arcane go out of business? 
 
Arcane was "suspended" by it's publishers as of issue 20. There is little hope of a  
ressurection, at least by Future Publishing, though when the announcement was made  
there was talk of the title being available for sale.   
 
Don't hold your breath. 
 
Gordon 
-------------------------------------------------------------------- 
This Tirade is (c) 1997 G.W.Rycroft, and shall not, 
by way  of trade or otherwise, be forwarded, cut-and-pasted, 
plagerised, or otherwise circulated without the author's 
prior consent  unless you really feel like it or can suggest a 
better sigfile for him. 
 
X-Sender: ludator@softfarm.com 
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 10:13:04 -0500 
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren) 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 05:27 PM 6/4/97 -0400, Daniel Pawtowski wrote: 
>  Not quite.  Personal Immunity is an advantage and makes you immune to any 
>harmful effects of your own power.  This could happen- say, if he shot 
>at somebody with Missile Refection who managed to bounce the teleport 
>beam back (I haven't read Wild Cards, so I don't know the SFX used), 
>then PI would keep him from going anywhere. 
 
In any case, Pop's teleportation appears to be "psionic" in nature, and 
can't be reflected by any physical means.  Since there is no character yet 
seen in the Wild Cards universe who could ever turn this power against him 
in the first place, it's impossible to know if he could be teleported 
against his will; what is known is that this has never worked to his advantage. 
 
As I've said before, the meta-rules of HERO should be read as applying both 
ways: an "advantage" that is not advantageous is NOT an Advantage. 
 
-- 
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ 
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely.               | 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ 
   Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html 
 
X-Sender: ludator@softfarm.com 
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 10:13:08 -0500 
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren) 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 11:55 PM 1/7/78, Robert Rutherford wrote: 
> Perhaps the element of humor was lost on some people.  [sigh....] 
> Besides, why not, they're only points.;)  It's not like the player has  
> to worry about earning them.  And if the GM wants him to have the power, 
> he has the power.   
> 
> We aren't talking about a character written up as a PC for a game with 
> active point limits.   
 
Except that point totals are also used to balance NPCs against the PCs in a 
game.  Some people may want to know how Popinjay stacks up compared to a 
100+150 pt. PC.  For example, if I'm running a Wild Cards campaign that 
allows both pre-gen and home-built aces, those points are one of the main 
tools I have to determine whether or not Popinjay is going to fit into my 
group of PCs. 
 
== 
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ 
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely.               | 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ 
   Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: RzrshrP927@aol.com 
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:53:16 -0400 (EDT) 
X-To: hero-l@october.com 
Subject: Re: Possession Power 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: emout02.mx.aol.com ip 198.81.11.93 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: RzrshrP927@aol.com 
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X-Hero: champ-l 
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X-Status:  
X-UID: 2 
 
 
 
I think your right about Mind Control vs. Machines, you might however want to 
build a possession power for the character based on his ego, but perhaps more 
directly his body.  Making the limit of the power he can supply to run the 
machine dice wise.  like his 20 body x3 equals the strength he can generate 
in active points to any machines abilities, or perhaps x5 or more.  Basing it 
on the Mind Control will just make it an ego type roll on his part, because 
you can't make him roll vs. the machines ego for effect.  I think the best 
thing you could do is try to work on your own Possession vs. inanimate 
involvement. 
 
Let me know how this works out! 
 
Good Luck,  
Razor Sharp 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: RzrshrP927@aol.com 
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 03:41:51 -0400 (EDT) 
X-To: hero-l@october.com 
Subject: Fwd: Possession Power 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
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--------------------- 
Forwarded message: 
From:	RzrshrP927@aol.com 
Sender:	owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Reply-to:	hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
To:	champ-l@omg.org 
Date: 97-06-06 02:56:46 EDT 
 
 
 
I think your right about Mind Control vs. Machines, you might however want to 
build a possession power for the character based on his ego, but perhaps more 
directly his body.  Making the limit of the power he can supply to run the 
machine dice wise.  like his 20 body x3 equals the strength he can generate 
in active points to any machines abilities, or perhaps x5 or more.  Basing it 
on the Mind Control will just make it an ego type roll on his part, because 
you can't make him roll vs. the machines ego for effect.  I think the best 
thing you could do is try to work on your own Possession vs. inanimate 
involvement. 
 
Let me know how this works out! 
 
Good Luck,  
Razor Sharp 
 
 
 
From: Chuff78002@aol.com 
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:39:52 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Software Query.... 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 4 
 
Hi gang, 
Been looking at fuzion recently, and have been wondering if anyone's heard 
any rumours concerning  software similar to hero maker for Fuzion or hero to 
fuzion conversions ? 
Would be very interested if any such thing exists, or if anyone out there is 
working on it, thanx in advance :- ) 
 
Chuff78002. 
 
From: flacksd@evron.com 
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 9:17:02 -0500 
Subject: Re:Possession Power (longish) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 5 
 
The character you are thinking of is 'Maximum Overdrive'  in the 
European Enemies supplement.  He has machine control powers, 
including Mind Control and Telepathy.  They have used a limitation of -1.5 
for only works on computers and machines with INT.  This limitation is 
reduced in future supplement to -1/2 and then to 0. 
 
I think the character has more in commen with 'Albion' in the Kingdom of 
Champions supplement.  For thouse of you not familiar with Albion, the 
character is a spirit who can physicaly enter and possess a person.  
Albion's Mind Control is bought with the No Range limitiation (-1/2) and 
'Must Occupy & Remain in Victims Body (-1/2). 
 
Before I show the list my ideas for your player's machine possession  
powers there is a point I would like to clarify.  When your player is an 
electrical spark roaming around within a machine, how can his enemies 
hurt him.  At best they can destroy the machine he is in.  This sound like 
desolid to me.  Perhaps vulnerable to electricity.  This would mean his 
machine control powers would require the Affect Solid advantage. 
 
Furthermore, unless the player can arch (fly) into the machine, he will 
have to be next to it.  This means a No Range Limitation.  I personaly think 
this is a good idea, and it makes the power more managable for the GM.  
If his power is limited to controling machines, and he can arch into the 
machine, then it would be very hard to place him in a situation without a 
machine handy. 
 
Here is my suggestions for the player characters machine control 
powers. 
 
33 Desolid, must have a machine host available (-1/2), 1/2 end cost 
(+1/4)  -2 end cost- 
21 43 point Machine Control Elemental Command, Only while desolid 
(-1/2), Must enter and remain in machine host, only vs the host (-1/2) 
18 a (87) 10d6 Mind control, Affects Solid (+1/2), Only with desolid 
(-1/2), Must enter and remain in machine host, only vs the host (-1/2), no 
range (-1/2), 1/2 end cost (+1/4) - 3 end cost- 
22 b (87) 40 STR Telekinesis, fine manipulation, Affects Solid (+1/2), 
Must enter and remain in machine host, only vs the host (-1/2), Only 
while desolid (-1/2), 1/2 end cost (+1/4) - 3 end cost- 
18 c (87) 10d6 Telepathy, Affects Solid (+1/2), Must enter and remain in 
machine host, only vs the host (-1/2), Only while Desolid (-1/2), No 
Range (-1/2), 1/2 end cost (+1/4) - 3 end cost- 
 
I have left the no range limitation of the TK so that the possessing 
character can manipulate controls at various points in a large machine. 
(such as the bottom and top of a construction crane).  Furthermore, 
using TK allows such neat comic book / anime effects as wrapping 
people up in crane cables, and swating vilians with construction arms.  
Such effects are not realy possible by manual control. 
 
You may want to conside some for of life support linked to the desolid as 
well. 
 
Please note that the combination of desolid and affects solid machine 
control powers would make this player character very tough, so long as 
a machine is handy.  Unless you villians have powers that can effect his 
desolid, they can not hurt him without first destroying his machine host.  
And he can always find a new host.  Finally, if the player character does 
not have so powers or skills he can use outside his host he will find 
himself nearly powerless in a wilderness or rural setting. 
 
I hope this helps, 
Daniel Flacks 
dflacks@evron.com 
 
From: flacksd@evron.com 
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 9:48:59 -0500 
Subject: Re:Possession Power - Reply 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 6 
 
>I think your right about Mind Control vs. Machines, you might however 
> want to build a possession power for the character based on his ego, 
> but perhaps more directly his body.  Making the limit of the power he 
> can supply to run the machine dice wise.  like his 20 body x3 equals 
> the strength he can generate in active points to any machines abilities, 
> or perhaps x5 or more.  Basing it on the Mind Control will just make it an 
> ego type roll on his part, because you can't make him roll vs. the 
> machines ego for effect.  I think the best thing you could do is try to 
> work on your own Possession vs. inanimate involvement. 
> 
>Let me know how this works out! 
> 
>Good Luck,  
>Razor Sharp 
> 
I think this is a good Idea, using the Mental Power Based on CON limitation 
would definetly be an option.  Since Mind control (and telepathy) have no 
effect on something without a mind, they would only work on computers 
or machines with INT.  If the target machine or computer does not have 
ego, you can use the INT instead.  This will make a super computer a lot 
harder to control that a laptop.  I wish I had seen your e-mail before I sent 
my suggestion, I am already getting new ideas. 
 
Daniel Flacks 
dflacks@evron.com 
 
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:05:34 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: Re: Possession Power 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
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X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 7 
 
At 11:14 PM 6/4/97 -0500, R Jacobs wrote: 
> 
> 
>Hello gang, 
> 
>	Okay...I'm starting out as a new gamemaster for Champions 4th Ed. and 
>I'm working with my players on developing characters...one of them wants 
>to play a character who can physically possess any machine with an 
>electrical component (he changes into electrical energy and then enters 
>the machine to control it)..... 
>	Now I know that there was a villain printed in one of the Champions 
>supplements who had a similar power and I believe it was defined as 
>"Mind Control v/s machines" or something.  For some reason the villain 
>name "Overdrive" rings a bell... 
> 
>	Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can develop a "possession" 
>power versus machines? Does anybody know of the villain I'm referring to 
>and how the power was accomplished with said villain? 
> 
> 
The character I believe you are referring to is Psypher from the book 
Enemies Assemble.  You were also right about the fact that her powers were 
defined as Mind Control versus electronics.  This was bought with the 
telepathic option.  It might be expensive but you could try linking this 
effect with desolid to represent the absence of the char5acters physical 
body while in control of the machine. 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:28:54 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Possession Power 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 9 
 
 
 
At 11:14 PM 6/4/97 -0500, R Jacobs wrote: 
> 
> 
>Hello gang, 
> 
>	Okay...I'm starting out as a new gamemaster for Champions 4th Ed. and 
>I'm working with my players on developing characters...one of them wants 
>to play a character who can physically possess any machine with an 
>electrical component (he changes into electrical energy and then enters 
>the machine to control it)..... 
>	Now I know that there was a villain printed in one of the Champions 
>supplements who had a similar power and I believe it was defined as 
>"Mind Control v/s machines" or something.  For some reason the villain 
>name "Overdrive" rings a bell... 
> 
>	Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can develop a "possession" 
>power versus machines? Does anybody know of the villain I'm referring to 
>and how the power was accomplished with said villain? 
> 
> 
The character I believe you are referring to is Psypher from the book 
Enemies Assemble.  You were also right about the fact that her powers were 
defined as Mind Control versus electronics.  This was bought with the 
telepathic option.  It might be expensive but you could try linking this 
effect with desolid to represent the absence of the char5acters physical 
body while in control of the machine. 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
 
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:29:15 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Power Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Okay, here's another Wildcards power question. 
 
Lazy Dragon has the ability to animate (and bring to life) anything he 
carves or creates out of folded paper.  Thus he can whittle a block of 
soap into a mouse, or create an orgami tiger, possess the creation and 
*persto* instant full size mouse or tiger.  The largest thing he's createe 
has been an oriental dragon (one 20' long, the other 40' long).  He fall 
unconcious while the creation is active, and if the creature is killed, he 
returns to his own body. 
 
So... 
 
This looks like Duplication with the limitation that one of the Duplicates 
is inactive while the 'duplicate' is active.  Also, the Duplicate can be 
damn near anything.  Would people feel that giving the duplicate a massive 
cosmic power pool (Only to simulate animal powers) abusive?  And what sort 
of lim is it to have one dupliacte fall 'asleep' (and how would one handle 
the 'snap back to original body part'? 
 
Or is this a really wierd form of summon? 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
X-Sender: ghost@softfarm.com 
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 12:55:57 -0500 
From: ghost@softfarm.com (Bryce Berggren) 
Subject: Re: Power Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 02:44 PM 6/6/97 -0400, Dave Mattingly wrote: 
>What I want to know is how are you going to write up the guy that eats 
>brains... 
 
Piece o' cake. Telepathy with the Advantage "target need not be alive" 
(probably a +2 in most GMs' campaigns), expendable focus. >:> 
 
H. G. 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Possession Power - Reply 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 06 Jun 1997 14:11:25 -0400 
Lines: 33 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "f" == flacksd <flacksd@evron.com> writes: 
 
f> I think this is a good Idea, using the Mental Power Based on CON 
f> limitation would definetly be an option.  Since Mind control (and 
f> telepathy) have no effect on something without a mind, they would only 
f> work on computers or machines with INT. 
 
While this may work (I tend to think not; having an INT score does not 
equate to having a mind) it has the major failing of being unable to 
control machines without INT.  Considering that most machines do not have 
INT this kind of power becomes hideously expensive for what it can 
accomplish.  A more reliable way of simulating the control of various 
machines is an Elemental Control or VPP with powers that duplicate what 
those machines can accomplish, with the special effects being "taking 
control of a nearby machine". 
 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds. 
                                    \  
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Power Question 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 06 Jun 1997 14:27:27 -0400 
Lines: 48 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes: 
 
MS> This looks like Duplication with the limitation that one of the 
MS> Duplicates is inactive while the 'duplicate' is active. 
 
On third thought I have to agree.  The part about his own body becoming 
useless for a while tends to eliminate the use of Summon or other powers to 
simulate the abilities of the things he creates. 
 
MS> Also, the Duplicate can be damn near anything.  Would people feel that 
MS> giving the duplicate a massive cosmic power pool (Only to simulate 
MS> animal powers) abusive? 
 
Yeah, but try this on for size: give him a "Duplication Pool", a variable 
power pool that can only be used for Duplication.  It would require a skill 
roll (Sculpting) to change his current Duplication to another rather than 
putting a skill roll on the Duplication itself.  It is a moderately cheap 
way of doing it, so I would be careful when allowing this in the hands of a 
PC.  And if it is in a player's hands I would want him to provide writeups 
of his commonly used creations.  And most importantly, it cannot be used to 
create aces; anything created is "normal" for that thing's type. 
 
MS> And what sort of lim is it to have one dupliacte fall 'asleep' (and how 
MS> would one handle the 'snap back to original body part'? 
 
His falling "asleep" when he uses the power does not really limit his 
ability to use it, so it is not worth a bonus there.  Instead, he gets a 20 
point Physical Limitation (Frequently, Fully).  The "snap back" is a 
special effect, just as his "posession" of the alternate form is a special 
effect. 
 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete. 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \  
                                    \  
 
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com> 
Subject: Re: Power Question 
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 14:44:19 -0400 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>Lazy Dragon has the ability to animate (and bring to life) anything he 
>carves or creates out of folded paper.   
 
I've seen this kind of thing done with the "leaves body behind -1" 
limitation from desolid being applied to multiform. Summon leaves the 
problem of controlling the summoned creature. 
 
Another way is to buy a bunch of followers (or even a follower pool) and 
transform object to creature. 
 
 
What I want to know is how are you going to write up the guy that eats 
brains... 
 
Dave Mattingly 
 
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:00:03 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Power Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, Dave Mattingly wrote: 
 
> >Lazy Dragon has the ability to animate (and bring to life) anything he 
> >carves or creates out of folded paper.   
>  
> I've seen this kind of thing done with the "leaves body behind -1" 
> limitation from desolid being applied to multiform. Summon leaves the 
> problem of controlling the summoned creature. 
>  
> Another way is to buy a bunch of followers (or even a follower pool) and 
> transform object to creature. 
 
Actually, I really like Rat's suggestions concerning Duplication and a 
Power Pool. 
 
> What I want to know is how are you going to write up the guy that eats 
> brains... 
 
With gloves on? 
 
Seriously, that is another good question.  Deadhead absorbs the memories 
of anything he eats.  If he eats someone's brain, he can absorb their 
memories and a bit of their personality.  This is effectivly "Telepathy" 
(which is what is used in GURPS), but would people accept Telepathy on a 
dead mind?  Or is this retrocognition?   
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:51:33 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Power Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On 6 Jun 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote: 
 
> MS> Also, the Duplicate can be damn near anything.  Would people feel that 
> MS> giving the duplicate a massive cosmic power pool (Only to simulate 
> MS> animal powers) abusive? 
>  
> Yeah, but try this on for size: give him a "Duplication Pool", a variable 
> power pool that can only be used for Duplication.  It would require a skill 
> roll (Sculpting) to change his current Duplication to another rather than 
> putting a skill roll on the Duplication itself.  It is a moderately cheap 
> way of doing it, so I would be careful when allowing this in the hands of a 
> PC.  And if it is in a player's hands I would want him to provide writeups 
> of his commonly used creations.  And most importantly, it cannot be used to 
> create aces; anything created is "normal" for that thing's type. 
 
How is this different from what I suggested?  I don't think I'm getting 
what you are describing. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: R Jacobs <rjacobs@radiks.net> 
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 15:44:35 -0500 
Subject: Re: Possession Power (longish) 
Newsgroups: october.hero 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october.com!not-for-mail 
Lines: 34 
X-Sender: rjacobs@dial139.radiks.net 
X-Reply-To: rjacobs@radiks.net 
Nntp-Posting-Host: dial139.radiks.net 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
herolist wrote: 
 
> Please note that the combination of desolid and affects solid machine 
> control powers would make this player character very tough, so long as 
> a machine is handy.  Unless you villians have powers that can effect his 
> desolid, they can not hurt him without first destroying his machine host.=20 
> And he can always find a new host.   
 
First of all, let me say, I really enjoyed reading your response...it 
was very well thought out and full of information.  Now I'd like to put 
another idea to you (using the clipped portion of your article above): 
 
	Do you think it would be a violation of Champs 4th Ed. character design 
rules if the character being designed (heretofore known as "Hardwire") 
did NOT take the DESOLID when entering a machine? 
 
	The special effect of his "possession" would be that he changes to 
energy and "arcs" into the machine...but he could still be hurt while in 
the machine...attacks directed against the machine would be the same as 
attacking him...when the machine was destroyed he would be thrown out of 
the machine. 
 
	What do you think? 
 
	Also, I already spoke (informed) the player that he would have to 
physically get next to any electrical conduit that he wished to 
enter...in addition to a few other restrictions.   
 
	 
Rob 
 
p.s.  Unless I made an error, you might want to look at the way you 
figured active points for the 40 STR TK, FM -- I come out with 122 
(instead of 87).... 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Deadhead 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 06 Jun 1997 18:03:11 -0400 
Lines: 27 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes: 
 
MS> Seriously, that is another good question.  Deadhead absorbs the 
MS> memories of anything he eats.  If he eats someone's brain, he can 
MS> absorb their memories and a bit of their personality. 
 
I would not model this with powers at all.  Instead, I would make judicious 
use of various skills, especially knowledge skills, to represent the 
accumulated information. 
 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core, 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should 
                                    \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at. 
 
From: flacksd@evron.com 
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 17:14:49 -0500 
Subject: Re: Possession Power - Reply to Reply 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>>>>> "f" == flacksd <flacksd@evron.com> writes: 
f> I think this is a good Idea, using the Mental Power Based on CON 
f> limitation would definetly be an option.  Since Mind control (and 
f> telepathy) have no effect on something without a mind, they would 
>only 
f> work on computers or machines with INT. 
> 
>While this may work (I tend to think not; having an INT score does not 
>equate to having a mind) it has the major failing of being unable to 
>control machines without INT.  Considering that most machines do not 
>have INT this kind of power becomes hideously expensive for what it 
>can accomplish.  A more reliable way of simulating the control of 
>various machines is an Elemental Control or VPP with powers that 
>duplicate what those machines can accomplish, with the special 
>effects being "taking control of a nearby machine". 
 
I'm sorry if I was unclear.  In an earlier e-mail I sent my suggestions for 
the machine control power suite.  It included Telekinesis to allow the hero 
to move controls and parts of the machine.  The TK would allow the hero 
to control machines without INT.  The Mind Control and Telepathy powers 
allow the hero to control computers and machines that are controled by 
onboard computers, rather that physical controls. 
 
All computers have INT and the various characters I have seen with 
Computer telepathy in the published supplements all apply their powers 
against the computers INT.  AI devices, of course, have EGO.  So the 
mental powers can apply to their ego (or to the higher value if the GM 
likes).  I do not have ALL the published supplements, so other ways to 
do this may have been published as  well 
 
If you did not see my earlier e-mail I would be glad to repost it to the list, 
or just to you. 
 
I hope this clears things a little. 
 
Daniel Flacks 
dflacks@evron.com 
 
X-Sender: ctaylor@mailhost.cyberhighway.net 
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 17:47:18 -0700 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberhighway.net> 
Subject: HA Game 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Okay, getting a new Hard Drive installed today, the game should start on 
Saturday (hopefully!), sorry for the delay. 
 
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 22:18:49 -0300 (ADT) 
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net> 
X-Sender: tbarrie@drollsden 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: CT (Moonchild) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Thu, 29 May 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
 
> MOONCHILD 
> (Isis Moon) 
 
[...] 
> 13	Lang: English (3), French (3), Japanese (1 - literacy only), 
> 	Korean (0), Mandarin Chinese (3), Portuguese (3) 
 
According to Turn of the Cards, Moonchild doesn't speak Korean. Did she 
learn it later? 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 12:20:42 +1000 
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: topaz.cqu.EDU.AU ip 138.77.1.3 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
At 11:45 AM 6/3/97 +0000, you wrote: 
> 
> 
>To: epawtows@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu 
> 
>EP>>        My advice is to read a few unbiased reviews before deciding. 
>EP>>Since neither Darrin nor I can really provide that, check out this 
>EP>>month's Pyramid and Shadis or look at the reviews of this "contorversial" 
>EP>>game at www.rpg.net. 
> 
>    Arcane is a better source for RPG reviews. They currently lend 
>themselves to less biase than the two you mentioned above. 
 
i'd mention AUSTRALIAN REALMS as an unbiased mag . . . .but they bash tsr like nobodies buisness! 
 
 
>___ 
> X SLMR 2.1a X Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch! 
> 
> 
 
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 12:38:54 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>Having actually at last seen a copy here in the UK, I agree with Darin.  I 
>would use it only as a scource for other systems.  Actually, I do like west 
>end's Star Wars rpg, I think it's fast and easy to run/play but that's just 
>my humble opinion. 
>Sorry, Babylon 5 fans...the game mechanics of Babylon project suck....... 
> 
this is the bottom line. all the data collected leads to this conclusion.  
so can we drop it, or at least stop hearing from people who wrote the damn thing? 
(like they're gonna admit it sucks) 
 
>Darin's is only being frank and honest with folks.  Somebody out there will 
>like it, but i don't personally.  If I buy it, i will probably use it as a 
>scource for a Star Hero game, or even convert it to the star wars system 
>rules.....or white wolf's D10 system...now there's  a thought.... 
> 
>Chuff78002. 
> 
> 
 
ok, here we go ONE MORE TIME. . . . 
 
a couple of centuries ago, i made the hideous mistake of sending a big chunk of  
wierd space-stuff(called 3dair) to the list. i will now attempt a slightly more coherent  
"pitch", and see what comes up: 
 
3dair is a space combat simulator i adapted to hero from my own system-to-be. 
it allows you to plot a three-dimensional battle between  .  .hmhmhm . . . 
probably a maximum of 4 ships or so, which includes a detailed (but not complex) 
hit location system and a good 3d model, which plots the ships only in relation to themselves and each other. I hereby offer it as a flight combat system to use with our 
most esteemed of game systems, for all of you who wish to play a spacehero-type  
game in which the carew of the ship get to do more than just beam up and down  
like a pack of tourists.   
 
I just wrote up a "rules summary" which basically explains how the game works.  
anyone intrested in this summary, please tell me, or i won't be able to mail it to you, will i? 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: R Jacobs <rjacobs@radiks.net> 
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 21:46:21 -0500 
Subject: Re: Power Question 
Newsgroups: october.hero 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october.com!not-for-mail 
Lines: 39 
X-Sender: rjacobs@dial48.radiks.net 
X-Reply-To: rjacobs@radiks.net 
Nntp-Posting-Host: dial48.radiks.net 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
herolist wrote: 
>  
> From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
> Subject: Power Question 
> To: champ-l@omg.org 
>  
> Okay, here's another Wildcards power question. 
>  
> Lazy Dragon has the ability to animate (and bring to life) anything he 
> carves or creates out of folded paper.  Thus he can whittle a block of 
> soap into a mouse, or create an orgami tiger, possess the creation and 
> *persto* instant full size mouse or tiger.  The largest thing he's createe 
> has been an oriental dragon (one 20' long, the other 40' long).  He fall 
> unconcious while the creation is active, and if the creature is killed, he 
> returns to his own body. 
>  
> So... 
>  
> This looks like Duplication with the limitation that one of the Duplicates 
> is inactive while the 'duplicate' is active.  Also, the Duplicate can be 
> damn near anything.  Would people feel that giving the duplicate a massive 
> cosmic power pool (Only to simulate animal powers) abusive?  And what sort 
> of lim is it to have one dupliacte fall 'asleep' (and how would one handle 
> the 'snap back to original body part'? 
>  
> Or is this a really wierd form of summon? 
>  
> *************************************************************************** 
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion * 
> *               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                * 
> *            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
> *************************************************************************** 
 
 
Have you looked at using MULTIFORM in some manner? 
 
 
Rob 
 
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 12:50:03 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: One more for Babylon 5 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
ok, here goes . . .  . 
 
How about we steer away NOT from the B5 thingie, but from the idea that authors/designers can throw on things like this. As far as i'm concerned, there is vey little merit for hearing the opinion of someone so deeply involved in the system at hand. I think if an *author* wants to explain their reasons for describing a particular  
plot concept or type of character (as is done a little below), then go ahead, there is not nearly enough of that kind of discussion on thid list. HOWEVER, what is the point 
of a *designer* giving his $5? let's face it: a designer is never going to look at a new 
product and say: "hey, you're right! it does suck!!", and niether should he be expected to. A discussion like this leads nowhere, but of course that's only my opinion . .  
 
 
 
At 06:47 PM 6/4/97 -0400, you wrote: 
> 
>Once more into the fray:  The author of the B5 RPG wanted to make one 
>more statement to the list, and he's chosen me to send it for him 
>this time: 
> 
> I recommend that any comments be sent directly to Joe at the address 
>below, not to the list, we're far enough off-topic already. 
> 
> 
>----- Forwarded message from jsciv@bev.net ----- 
> 
>>From jsciv@bev.net Wed Jun  4 17:35:12 1997 
>From: jsciv@bev.net 
>Subject: Re: Source material (fwd) 
>To: dpawtows@access.digex.net (Daniel Pawtowski) 
>Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:34:51 -0400 (EDT) 
> 
>---begin message--- 
> 
>	I just have one last set of notes on the comments I've seen  
>about The Babylon Project on this list. I appreciate Darrin's candor 
>(and others), and I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions of the 
>game. I just want to make sure that the facts are straight. 
>	First, after talking to Darrin in private e-mail, I have  
>discovered that he was NOT in a playtest group after all. Certain 
>people will need to be "talked with" on this one, and I apologize 
>to Darrin for the misrepresentation. 
>	Second, the odds are not 50-50 on task resolution. Darrin's 
>point was more directed toward the idea that the dice are too  
>random for his tastes. If you're interested in the actual odds, I'll 
>be glad to send them to you privately. 
>	Third, several people have noted that the game system is in 
>the same ideological vein as Star Wars in that the characters do not  
>generally start as heros, but are "average Joe" types. This was  
>indeed our intention, but something I think that we did not adequately 
>convey was that there CAN be heros. This will have to be fixed as we 
>go. As you may or may not know, we wanted to appeal to non-RPG  
>types as well as devoted gamers, and this required a bit more  
>simplicity than many of you prefer. 
>	Fourth, I would have loved to have seen Arcane review TBP,  
>but with their cessation of publication that just doesn't look to be. 
>I named Pyramid and Shadis because those are reviews I know about. 
> 
>	Finally, I'm a storytelling type of gamer, and the type of 
>game we wrote was in that vein rather than the hard-number type that 
>many of you are used to. If you have bought the game and find the  
>mechanics not to your taste, please feel free to adapt it to  
>something else. But don't give up hope: the supplements were always 
>meant to give a little more "crunch" to the game. If you don't like 
>the background OR the mechanics, drop me a note explaining what  
>sucked and we'll see what we can do.  
> 
>	Thanks again to Daniel Pawtowski for his help, and thanks to 
>you for bearing with me. 
> 
>--  
>This is a .sig proxy. 
>jsciv@bev.net 
>*--Joe--* 
> 
>----- End of forwarded message from jsciv@bev.net ----- 
> 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 12:55:51 +1000 
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Subject: Re: Possession Power 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: topaz.cqu.EDU.AU ip 138.77.1.3 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
At 11:14 PM 6/4/97 -0500, you wrote: 
> 
> 
>Hello gang, 
> 
>	Okay...I'm starting out as a new gamemaster for Champions 4th Ed. and 
>I'm working with my players on developing characters...one of them wants 
>to play a character who can physically possess any machine with an 
>electrical component (he changes into electrical energy and then enters 
>the machine to control it)..... 
>	Now I know that there was a villain printed in one of the Champions 
>supplements who had a similar power and I believe it was defined as 
>"Mind Control v/s machines" or something.  For some reason the villain 
>name "Overdrive" rings a bell... 
> 
>	Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can develop a "possession" 
>power versus machines? Does anybody know of the villain I'm referring to 
>and how the power was accomplished with said villain? 
> 
> 
 
they just did mind control and tk, methinks. i have some better ideas: 
 
buy a VPP, to represent the diffent effects of the machienes in the area-  
with instant power change maybe, or deffinitly limits fro the nature of available powers 
 
buy a "wacky follower", who has vpp and shapeshift to represent whatever machiene  
is being controlled 
 
use a vehicle for the same 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 17:43:21 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Source material 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
please excuse the possible duplication, my server is foxbat's own today 
 
 
 
> 
>>Having actually at last seen a copy here in the UK, I agree with Darin.  I 
>>would use it only as a scource for other systems.  Actually, I do like west 
>>end's Star Wars rpg, I think it's fast and easy to run/play but that's just 
>>my humble opinion. 
>>Sorry, Babylon 5 fans...the game mechanics of Babylon project suck....... 
>> 
>this is the bottom line. all the data collected leads to this conclusion.  
>so can we drop it, or at least stop hearing from people who wrote the damn thing? 
>(like they're gonna admit it sucks) 
> 
>>Darin's is only being frank and honest with folks.  Somebody out there will 
>>like it, but i don't personally.  If I buy it, i will probably use it as a 
>>scource for a Star Hero game, or even convert it to the star wars system 
>>rules.....or white wolf's D10 system...now there's  a thought.... 
>> 
>>Chuff78002. 
>> 
>> 
> 
>ok, here we go ONE MORE TIME. . . . 
> 
>a couple of centuries ago, i made the hideous mistake of sending a big chunk of  
>wierd space-stuff(called 3dair) to the list. i will now attempt a slightly more coherent  
>"pitch", and see what comes up: 
> 
>3dair is a space combat simulator i adapted to hero from my own system-to-be. 
>it allows you to plot a three-dimensional battle between  .  .hmhmhm . . . 
>probably a maximum of 4 ships or so, which includes a detailed (but not complex) 
>hit location system and a good 3d model, which plots the ships only in relation to themselves and each other. I hereby offer it as a flight combat system to use with our 
>most esteemed of game systems, for all of you who wish to play a spacehero-type  
>game in which the carew of the ship get to do more than just beam up and down  
>like a pack of tourists.   
> 
>I just wrote up a "rules summary" which basically explains how the game works.  
>anyone intrested in this summary, please tell me, or i won't be able to mail it to you, will i? 
> 
 
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 17:44:01 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: One more for Babylon 5 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
once again . .i MAY have already sent this. . . .  
 
 
> 
>ok, here goes . . .  . 
> 
>How about we steer away NOT from the B5 thingie, but from the idea that authors/designers can throw on things like this. As far as i'm concerned, there is vey little merit for hearing the opinion of someone so deeply involved in the system at hand. I think if an *author* wants to explain their reasons for describing a particular  
>plot concept or type of character (as is done a little below), then go ahead, there is not nearly enough of that kind of discussion on thid list. HOWEVER, what is the point 
>of a *designer* giving his $5? let's face it: a designer is never going to look at a new 
>product and say: "hey, you're right! it does suck!!", and niether should he be expected to. A discussion like this leads nowhere, but of course that's only my opinion . .  
> 
> 
> 
>At 06:47 PM 6/4/97 -0400, you wrote: 
>> 
>>Once more into the fray:  The author of the B5 RPG wanted to make one 
>>more statement to the list, and he's chosen me to send it for him 
>>this time: 
>> 
>> I recommend that any comments be sent directly to Joe at the address 
>>below, not to the list, we're far enough off-topic already. 
>> 
>> 
>>----- Forwarded message from jsciv@bev.net ----- 
>> 
>>>From jsciv@bev.net Wed Jun  4 17:35:12 1997 
>>From: jsciv@bev.net 
>>Subject: Re: Source material (fwd) 
>>To: dpawtows@access.digex.net (Daniel Pawtowski) 
>>Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:34:51 -0400 (EDT) 
>> 
>>---begin message--- 
>> 
>>	I just have one last set of notes on the comments I've seen  
>>about The Babylon Project on this list. I appreciate Darrin's candor 
>>(and others), and I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions of the 
>>game. I just want to make sure that the facts are straight. 
>>	First, after talking to Darrin in private e-mail, I have  
>>discovered that he was NOT in a playtest group after all. Certain 
>>people will need to be "talked with" on this one, and I apologize 
>>to Darrin for the misrepresentation. 
>>	Second, the odds are not 50-50 on task resolution. Darrin's 
>>point was more directed toward the idea that the dice are too  
>>random for his tastes. If you're interested in the actual odds, I'll 
>>be glad to send them to you privately. 
>>	Third, several people have noted that the game system is in 
>>the same ideological vein as Star Wars in that the characters do not  
>>generally start as heros, but are "average Joe" types. This was  
>>indeed our intention, but something I think that we did not adequately 
>>convey was that there CAN be heros. This will have to be fixed as we 
>>go. As you may or may not know, we wanted to appeal to non-RPG  
>>types as well as devoted gamers, and this required a bit more  
>>simplicity than many of you prefer. 
>>	Fourth, I would have loved to have seen Arcane review TBP,  
>>but with their cessation of publication that just doesn't look to be. 
>>I named Pyramid and Shadis because those are reviews I know about. 
>> 
>>	Finally, I'm a storytelling type of gamer, and the type of 
>>game we wrote was in that vein rather than the hard-number type that 
>>many of you are used to. If you have bought the game and find the  
>>mechanics not to your taste, please feel free to adapt it to  
>>something else. But don't give up hope: the supplements were always 
>>meant to give a little more "crunch" to the game. If you don't like 
>>the background OR the mechanics, drop me a note explaining what  
>>sucked and we'll see what we can do.  
>> 
>>	Thanks again to Daniel Pawtowski for his help, and thanks to 
>>you for bearing with me. 
>> 
>>--  
>>This is a .sig proxy. 
>>jsciv@bev.net 
>>*--Joe--* 
>> 
>>----- End of forwarded message from jsciv@bev.net ----- 
>> 
> 
 
From: jrich@kih.net (Jody Rich) 
Subject: Unsubscribe 
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:09:17 -0500 
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
X-Sender: ludator@softfarm.com 
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 15:21:44 -0500 
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren) 
Subject: Re: Thunderbolts 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 07:13 AM 6/8/97 +1000, HAPPYELF!!!! wrote: 
> so, has anyone seen the new THUNDERBOLTS mag? i feel a bit silly, having 
> actually been suprised at the suprise ending to #1. it is about a bunch  
> of villans who pretend to be heros, with snazzy new costumes and stuff! 
 
Seen it, loved it, bought every issue so far.  I'm getting a subscription, 
if possible. ;] 
 
Don't feel bad about being "caught".  The T-Bolts happen to be more "heroic" 
(on camera, anyways) than 75% of heroes in comics today (this is by evil 
design, of course).  And who knows?  As time passes, they seem to be 
'pretending' less and less.  Even by issue #3, it'd be hard to imagine Abner 
Jenkins going back to getting beat up by Spidey. 
 
-- 
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ 
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely.               | 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ 
   Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html 
 
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 13:40:43 -0700 
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: <TEST>please ignore<TEST> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
this is a test to see if I get it. has the address changed or something? 
 
From: BCManOWar@aol.com 
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:52:46 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 3 
 
Popinjay...   
 
Didn't he also "Pop" someone from Earth to Takis???  That's a heck of a lot 
of non-combat multipliers...  :]) 
 
 
 
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 07:13:41 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Thunderbolts 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
so, has anyone seen the new THUNDERBOLTS mag? i feel a bit silly, having actually  
been suprised at the suprise ending to #1. it is about a bunch of villans who pretend 
to be heros, with snazzy new costumes and stuff! 
 
has anyone out there got any experiance with a simmilar type of champions game storyline? i think it's a pretty cool idea, myself. . . though it has been 
around for a while, it's only ever been done superficially. 
 
X-Sender: why@mars.superlink.net 
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 17:44:21 -0400 
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net> 
Subject: Re:Possession Power (longish) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 09:17 AM 6/6/97 -0500, you wrote: 
>33 Desolid, must have a machine host available (-1/2), 1/2 end cost 
>(+1/4)  -2 end cost- 
>21 43 point Machine Control Elemental Command, Only while desolid 
>(-1/2), Must enter and remain in machine host, only vs the host (-1/2) 
>18 a (87) 10d6 Mind control, Affects Solid (+1/2), Only with desolid 
------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
You mean Affects Physical World (+2) don't you?  Make this power much more 
expensive. 
 
>(-1/2), Must enter and remain in machine host, only vs the host (-1/2), no 
>range (-1/2), 1/2 end cost (+1/4) - 3 end cost- 
>22 b (87) 40 STR Telekinesis, fine manipulation, Affects Solid (+1/2), 
>Must enter and remain in machine host, only vs the host (-1/2), Only 
>while desolid (-1/2), 1/2 end cost (+1/4) - 3 end cost- 
>18 c (87) 10d6 Telepathy, Affects Solid (+1/2), Must enter and remain in 
>machine host, only vs the host (-1/2), Only while Desolid (-1/2), No 
>Range (-1/2), 1/2 end cost (+1/4) - 3 end cost- 
 
I do not like this limitation since most machines do not normally have 
intelligence.  They do, however, have BODY.  So, you might try this: 
 
6d6 Transform, machine control system into mindless automaton (heals 
normally). 
Multiform (use spirit rules to create the character's mental self), linked 
(to transform) 
 
This has the benefit of getting rid of the character's body (it's a 
multiform).  The machine probably has a known BODY so the Transform 
mechanic is well understood.  For normal possession, the transform would 
be: intelligent being into duplicate automaton.  The only drawback is that, 
the possessee will not recover very quickly: it lacks the struggle of mind 
against mind.  (Also, not everyone likes the automaton rules either.) 
 
For doing normal (human) possession, the transform becomes "Self-motivated 
intelligent being into automaton" 
 
Mind Scan is also very useful to those who possess.  Add EGO drains as 
necessary. 
 
 
Subject: Re: Power Question 
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-16,19,21-22,24-30 
From: dwtoomey@juno.com (David  W Toomey) 
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 19:03:30 EDT 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>> What I want to know is how are you going to write up the guy that  
>eats 
>> brains... 
> 
>With gloves on? 
> 
>Seriously, that is another good question.  Deadhead absorbs the  
>memories 
>of anything he eats.  If he eats someone's brain, he can absorb their 
>memories and a bit of their personality.  This is effectivly  
>"Telepathy" 
>(which is what is used in GURPS), but would people accept Telepathy on  
>a 
>dead mind?  Or is this retrocognition?   
> 
 
 
I'd try Retrocognition, with the 'sense' being Telepathy, Standard 
Telepathy, and extra dice of telepathy with the limit "Only to overcome 
mental def" and all the previous with 
"Only on corpses" as one of the limitations (Gestures comes to mind as 
another). 
 
Having clairvoyance does *not* give you a sense, but allows you to 
project that sense, 
so it should work for this case. IMHO, anyway.... 
 
 
 
David W Toomey 
dwtoomey@juno.com 
 
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:08:50 -0400 (EDT) 
X-Sender: nexus@uky.campus.mci.net 
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net> 
Subject: Call for GMs 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 Over the last few months the New London PBEM has evolved into a entire 
universe. What is needed now are people to help run this shared universe. 
Game masters are welcome to set up areas to work with in the New London 
continuity which as been tentatively named Epic.There are sevearal Cities 
and countries open to prospect GM's.  Such as England or Los Angles. 
Guidelines are posted on the Epic Main page. Since this will be a shared 
Universe with me as overall GM input and discussion among GM's is welcome 
and encouraged.  
 
The Epic Homepage is located at:http://www.agt.net/public/clas/champ.htm 
 
Check it out, if nothing more than to offer some constructive criticism.  
 
 
	Can God make a plot so twisted even he can't figure it out? 
			Tom Servo -MST 3K "The Island of Dr Fu Manchu"  
 
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 17:13:38 -0700 
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: <ignore>apologies once again<ignore> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
sorry, the uni server is playing merry hell with all of us today, this is deffinitly the  
last time i will be sending a test-post to the list! 
 
X-Sender: urklore@pop.tiac.net 
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 23:34:12 -0400 
From: Urklore The Iron <urklore@tiac.net> 
Subject: Voice Duplication 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
I was wondering, 
	How would any of you do the power of voice mimicry. You know, the way Data 
could sound like any one of the STNG members and the like. The Mimicry 
skill does not work well, it is a learned skill. It does not function well 
for 100% accuracy like a computer could. I was thinking maybe change 
enviroment for the ability to mimic voices? 
************************************************************************ 
* Bill Schwartz, Billcutis of Borg, Iceman Incarnate, Internet Lord    * 
* Galaxy Ranger (With Series-5 Brain Implant and Bio-Defenses)         * 
* Leader of ANIME ADVENTURERS, Finisher of the World of XEEN, Tea Lord * 
* Level 7.7 DM, Keeper of the NetHOARD, Keeper of 79 RPG Systems       * 
* Slave to the all powerful JOLT, Forever Knight Vampire Fledgling     * 
* Hot Chocolate King, "Welcome", "You've got Mail", ROBOTECH Master    * 
* Official Tiac "SENIOR" Customer Support/Web Team Employee!           *  
* Muad'dib Disciple, "Predacons TERRORIZE!" "Maximals MAXIMIZE!"       * 
* "Die Autobots!!", "Clearly I can not choose the wine in front of me" * 
* "It musst give usss our preciousss!", "Warp 7.....Engage!."          * 
* "Orbots Unite!", "Blood and Souls for my Lord Arioch!" UNIX Neophyte * 
* "Yes my lord?" "Ready to serve" Remember, Computers never ever lie   * 
************************************************************************ 
 
 
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:19:34 -0400 (EDT) 
X-Sender: nexus@uky.campus.mci.net 
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net> 
Subject: test 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
sorry for the undo message but I need to see if I am receiving things from 
the list.  
	Can God make a plot so twisted even he can't figure it out? 
			Tom Servo -MST 3K "The Island of Dr Fu Manchu"  
 
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:49:05 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org, Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> 
        champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: CT (Moonchild) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, Trevor Barrie wrote: 
 
> On Thu, 29 May 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>  
> > MOONCHILD 
> > (Isis Moon) 
>  
> [...] 
> > 13	Lang: English (3), French (3), Japanese (1 - literacy only), 
> > 	Korean (0), Mandarin Chinese (3), Portuguese (3) 
>  
> According to Turn of the Cards, Moonchild doesn't speak Korean. Did she 
> learn it later? 
 
Beats me, that language list is compiled from the GURPS Wildcards book 
which predates Book  XII by several years. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:55:30 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Re: Deadhead (fwd) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Opps, this was supposed to go to everyone... 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
---------- Forwarded message ---------- 
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:54:44 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access2.digex.net> 
To: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Deadhead 
 
On 6 Jun 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote: 
 
> >>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes: 
>  
> MS> Seriously, that is another good question.  Deadhead absorbs the 
> MS> memories of anything he eats.  If he eats someone's brain, he can 
> MS> absorb their memories and a bit of their personality. 
>  
> I would not model this with powers at all.  Instead, I would make judicious 
> use of various skills, especially knowledge skills, to represent the 
> accumulated information. 
 
Doesn't quite work that way.  The memories fade within a short period of 
time after absobstion.  Also, Deadhaed can 'see' what his target saw right 
before death, including spoken words and the like. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
 
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 09:12:06 -0700 
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Thunderbolts 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Bryan Berggren wrote: 
>  
> At 07:13 AM 6/8/97 +1000, HAPPYELF!!!! wrote: 
> > so, has anyone seen the new THUNDERBOLTS mag? i feel a bit silly, having 
> > actually been suprised at the suprise ending to #1. it is about a bunch 
> > of villans who pretend to be heros, with snazzy new costumes and stuff! 
>  
> Seen it, loved it, bought every issue so far.  I'm getting a subscription, 
> if possible. ;] 
>  
> Don't feel bad about being "caught".  The T-Bolts happen to be more "heroic" 
> (on camera, anyways) than 75% of heroes in comics today (this is by evil 
> design, of course).  And who knows?  As time passes, they seem to be 
> 'pretending' less and less.  Even by issue #3, it'd be hard to imagine Abner 
> Jenkins going back to getting beat up by Spidey. 
>  
> -- 
 
yeah-especially since he gets to beat spidey up in some story or another as mach-1(i  
know, it's "unrealistic" if he does) while the cliche of "villans turn up as heros but  
the real heros see through them almost immediately" has been done a time or two . 
 . .see issue on of the new jla mag, fer instance. . . an actual cohesive look at the 
behaviour and complications of a pretend hero hasn't- but don't be suprised iff quite a  
few of them decide to stay bad. . . 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley) 
Date: 08 Jun 97 19:46:00 GMT 
Subject: Thunderbolts 
X-Ftn-To: Jonesmj@Topaz.Cqu.Edu.Au 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october!darrin.kelley 
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *  
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
HE>so, has anyone seen the new THUNDERBOLTS mag? i feel a bit silly, having 
HE>actually 
HE>been suprised at the suprise ending to #1. it is about a bunch of villans wh 
HE>pretend 
HE>to be heros, with snazzy new costumes and stuff! 
 
    Yes. I have been reading it since issue #1. I have also gotten their 
appearances in the Hulk and Spiderman Team-Up. Great book! 
 
    I have also been working up 4th Edition adaptations based on each 
team member's stats in the Gamer's Handbook To The Marvel Universe. But 
since the title is so new, I'm choosing to wait before finishing or 
posting them until I have been able to get a better view of some of 
their new abilities. 
___ 
 X SLMR 2.1a X This tagline stolen by Silly Little Mail Reader! 
 
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net> 
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net> 
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:11:43 +0000 
Subject: Re: Deadhead (fwd) 
Reply-to: ghoyle1@airmail.net 
Priority: normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 1 
 
 
> > >>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes: 
> >  
> > MS> Seriously, that is another good question.  Deadhead absorbs the 
> > MS> memories of anything he eats.  If he eats someone's brain, he can 
> > MS> absorb their memories and a bit of their personality. 
> >  
> > I would not model this with powers at all.  Instead, I would make judicious 
> > use of various skills, especially knowledge skills, to represent the 
> > accumulated information. 
>  
> Doesn't quite work that way.  The memories fade within a short period of 
> time after absobstion.  Also, Deadhaed can 'see' what his target saw right 
> before death, including spoken words and the like. 
 
What about Telepathy, Transdimensional (the past), only to read the  
mind of someone whose brain he's eaten? 
---------------------------------- 
Guy Hoyle (ghoyle1@airmail.net) 
http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/ 
Visit The Gamemaster's Bookshelf 
and the PANGAEA Project! 
 
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 19:21:32 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Re: Power Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Sun, 8 Jun 1997, Patrick Barden wrote: 
 
<Stuff about Lazy Dragon snipped> 
 
> I vote for a weird form of summon.  If not instead of using a VPP for the 
> animals use a variation of the set up you used to creat the amalgam charcter 
> Chameleon.  This should do the trick much less expensively. 
 
Great, except I didn't post a write-up for Chameleon and have no idea who 
(or what) he is...  What was the power set-up used? 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:53:53 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: Re: Power Question 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 12:29 PM 6/6/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>Okay, here's another Wildcards power question. 
> 
>Lazy Dragon has the ability to animate (and bring to life) anything he 
>carves or creates out of folded paper.  Thus he can whittle a block of 
>soap into a mouse, or create an orgami tiger, possess the creation and 
>*persto* instant full size mouse or tiger.  The largest thing he's createe 
>has been an oriental dragon (one 20' long, the other 40' long).  He fall 
>unconcious while the creation is active, and if the creature is killed, he 
>returns to his own body. 
> 
>So... 
> 
>This looks like Duplication with the limitation that one of the Duplicates 
>is inactive while the 'duplicate' is active.  Also, the Duplicate can be 
>damn near anything.  Would people feel that giving the duplicate a massive 
>cosmic power pool (Only to simulate animal powers) abusive?  And what sort 
>of lim is it to have one dupliacte fall 'asleep' (and how would one handle 
>the 'snap back to original body part'? 
> 
>Or is this a really wierd form of summon? 
> 
>*************************************************************************** 
>* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
>*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
>*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
>* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
>*************************************************************************** 
> 
I vote for a weird form of summon.  If not instead of using a VPP for the 
animals use a variation of the set up you used to creat the amalgam charcter 
Chameleon.  This should do the trick much less expensively. 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:19:12 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown 
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 2 
 
The original message was received at Sun, 8 Jun 1997 05:07:28 -0400 (EDT) 
from dpawtows@localhost 
 
   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- 
champs-l@omg.org 
 
   ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 
... while talking to emerald.omg.org.: 
>>> RCPT To:<champs-l@omg.org> 
<<< 550 <champs-l@omg.org>> User unknown 
550 champs-l@omg.org... User unknown 
Reporting-MTA: dns; access4.digex.net 
Arrival-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 05:07:28 -0400 (EDT) 
 
Final-Recipient: RFC822; champs-l@omg.org 
Action: failed 
Status: 5.1.1 
Remote-MTA: DNS; emerald.omg.org 
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 <champs-l@omg.org>> User unknown 
Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 22:19:11 -0400 (EDT) 
Return-Path: <dpawtows> 
Received: (from dpawtows@localhost) 
          by access4.digex.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) 
	  id FAA21485 for champs-l@omg.org; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 05:07:28 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows> 
Message-Id: <199706080907.FAA21485@access4.digex.net> 
Subject: Re: Source material 
To: champs-l@omg.org 
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 05:07:28 -0400 (EDT) 
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970607124447.2a7f0e44@topaz.cqu.edu.au> from ! at "Jun 7, 97 12:38:54 pm" 
Organization: VTSFFC 
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] 
MIME-Version: 1.0 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII 
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
 
> >Sorry, Babylon 5 fans...the game mechanics of Babylon project suck....... 
> > 
> this is the bottom line. all the data collected leads to this conclusion.  
 
Well, although I am tired of this thread, you're kinda jumping to  
conclusions there.  I, for one, don't think it "sucks". 
   Admittedly, I much prefer Champs.  But then, I vastly prefer supers 
gaming to "Realistic" games, anyway. I don't like GURPS, either. 
 
                                          Daniel Pawtowski 
 
dpawtows@vt.edu 
 
X-Sender: why@mars.superlink.net 
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 00:22:33 -0400 
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net> 
Subject: Re: Voice Duplication 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 11:34 PM 6/7/97 -0400, Urklore The Iron wrote: 
>I was wondering, 
>	How would any of you do the power of voice mimicry. You know, the way Data 
>could sound like any one of the STNG members and the like. The Mimicry 
>skill does not work well, it is a learned skill. It does not function well 
>for 100% accuracy like a computer could. I was thinking maybe change 
>enviroment for the ability to mimic voices? 
 
Why not Mimicry (35-) for 51 active points?  Should fool anyone with a 
perception roll less than 27-. 
 
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 00:33:21 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
Subject: Re: Voice Duplication 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 3 
 
Urklore The Iron wrote: 
>  
> I was wondering, 
>         How would any of you do the power of voice mimicry. You know, the way Data 
> could sound like any one of the STNG members and the like. The Mimicry 
> skill does not work well, it is a learned skill. It does not function well 
> for 100% accuracy like a computer could. I was thinking maybe change 
> enviroment for the ability to mimic voices? 
 
 
Sounds like you want images to hearing.  You will still need the mimicry 
skill to be able to (convincingly) duplicate a voice/sound though. 
 
Todd 
 
X-Sender: avery1@pop.flash.net 
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 12:11:15 
From: John Turner <Avery1@flash.net> 
Subject: Re: Voice Duplication 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 04:55 PM 6/9/97 +0200, Jens-Arthur Leirbakk wrote: 
>On Sat, 7 Jun 1997, Urklore The Iron wrote: 
>> I was wondering, 
>> 	How would any of you do the power of voice mimicry. You know, the way Data 
>> could sound like any one of the STNG members and the like. The Mimicry 
>> skill does not work well, it is a learned skill. It does not function well 
>> for 100% accuracy like a computer could. I was thinking maybe change 
>> enviroment for the ability to mimic voices? 
> 
>How about an Images, only vs. Ears, and the usual game mechanics to 
>resolve if the person BELIEVED in the Images? 
>                 =            Jens-Arthur Leirbakk             = 
 
What is the mechanical difference between a mimicry roll and images vs. 
hearing (specific) voices?  None really.  Sure Data could immitate any 
voice he heard, but another Data (perhaps Lore) could probably figure out 
the mimicry.  Here are two solutions... 
 
Mimicry:  You make your mimicry roll.  The listener must make a PER to 
discover the mimicry (skill vs. skill roll).  Give Data a 25- Mimicry roll. :) 
 
Images vs. hearing:  You pay endurance for the images, which only work in 
one hex.   The target has a PER roll to detect something wrong with the 
Images. 
 
Using the rule that you don't use a power to simulate something already 
part of the system (TK isn't flight, buy flight), you use mimicry, in this 
case a truckload. 
 
  
 
Posted-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:55:06 +0200 (MET DST) 
X-Authentication-Warning: ild.stud.ntnu.no: leirbakk owned process doing -bs 
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:55:06 +0200 (MET DST) 
From: Jens-Arthur Leirbakk <leirbakk@stud.ntnu.no> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Voice Duplication 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Sat, 7 Jun 1997, Urklore The Iron wrote: 
 
> I was wondering, 
> 	How would any of you do the power of voice mimicry. You know, the way Data 
> could sound like any one of the STNG members and the like. The Mimicry 
> skill does not work well, it is a learned skill. It does not function well 
> for 100% accuracy like a computer could. I was thinking maybe change 
> enviroment for the ability to mimic voices? 
 
How about an Images, only vs. Ears, and the usual game mechanics to 
resolve if the person BELIEVED in the Images? 
 
                 =============================================== 
                 =            Jens-Arthur Leirbakk             = 
                 =       e-mail: leirbakk@stud.ntnu.no         = 
                 = http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~leirbakk/index.html = 
                 =    Smash forehead on keyboard to continue   = 
                 =============================================== 
 
X-Sender: bsvitavs@acs-mail.bu.edu 
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:04:32 -0500 
From: bsvitavs@bu.edu (Bill Svitavsky) 
Subject: Re: Voice Duplication 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>I was wondering, 
>        How would any of you do the power of voice mimicry. You know, the way 
>Data 
>could sound like any one of the STNG members and the like. The Mimicry 
>skill does not work well, it is a learned skill. It does not function well 
>for 100% accuracy like a computer could. I was thinking maybe change 
>enviroment for the ability to mimic voices? 
 
What's wrong with Mimicry with an extremely high roll (Say, 30 or less)? 
Sure, an 18 will always fail, but I can imagine situations where Data-type 
Mimicry might not be convincing (the tone is inappropriate for the moment, 
for example, or there's a bug in the program.) Situational modifiers are 
still quite relevent - imagine filtering out background noise. A reasonable 
GM would probably not require the roll in more routine situations. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
"The physical world is true and real; the inner world is also true and 
real. It is when we muddle them, when we fail to live the inner world as 
symbol, when we try to locate it in literal people, that the illusory world 
is created. The illusory world is the projected world, which so distorts 
both inner and outer that we can see neither as it is." 
                                                Robert A. Johnson 
 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Deadhead (fwd) 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 09 Jun 1997 12:52:39 -0400 
Lines: 28 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes: 
 
MS> Doesn't quite work that way.  The memories fade within a short period 
MS> of time after absobstion.  Also, Deadhaed can 'see' what his target saw 
MS> right before death, including spoken words and the like. 
 
Well, that was not what was described the first time around, so sue me for 
coming up with the "wrong" game mechanics. :) 
 
Cramming and Retrocognition. 
 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged 
                                    \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball. 
 
From: flacksd@evron.com 
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:03:50 -0500 
Subject: Hero Games Website 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Does Anybody on the list know what is happening to the herogames 
web site.  When I tried to connect to www.herogames.com I was told 
that the site is no longer there.  From the message it appears that their 
internet supplier is no longer in the web page business (but I am not 
sure). 
 
Does Herogames have a new web site? 
Will the old web site be returning?  If so, When? 
 
If anybody knows what is going on, I'd like to know to. 
 
Thanks, 
Daniel Flacks 
dflacks@evron.com 
 
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:12:20 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Argh! Mail Failure 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
   I just got back from a week vacation, downloaded my mail packet of some 
180 messages, and lost the whole batch. 
   I'm going to catch up on whatever interests me courtesy of Red October 
(thank you Bob Quinlan), but if anyone on the list sent me a direct email 
over this time, I lost it.  Please resend. 
   Thank you all for your patience.   :-] 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:19:47 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>From Chuff: 
==== 
Hi gang, 
Been looking at fuzion recently, and have been wondering if anyone's heard 
any rumours concerning  software similar to hero maker for Fuzion or hero to 
fuzion conversions ? 
Would be very interested if any such thing exists, or if anyone out there is 
working on it, thanx in advance :- ) 
=== 
 
   I have read a report (in HeroZine) that the Hero Software people are 
working on a HeroMaker type of program called Fuzion Generator.  I don't 
know anything beyond this, though; the announcement came at the same time as 
that for Fuzion itself. 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:27:14 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Web sites with useful info for Champs GMs? 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>From Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
=== 
>On a related issue:  Anyone have any good Champs-RELATED sites?  I've 
>been searching the web for a few weeks and have found a severe lack of 
>sites.  I know they are out there...I'm just not finding them...what are 
>your FAVORITE CHAMPS sites? 
> 
No Joke!  I have had fits finding sites for Champions.  Even when I do it 
seems that half the ones I find listed are not longer up and running.  I 
will say that one relativly useful jumping point is the Champions and Hero 
subdivisions of Yahoo!  I don't recommend trying altavista unless you are 
very patient.  You'll get a few thousand hits most of which have nothing to 
do with the game. 
=== 
 
   I keep a constant search going for Champions-related websites that have 
the potential for usefulness for a Champions GM, and I've placed them on a 
page on my personal website.  The URL for Bob's Hero Links Page is: 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/herolinx.htm 
   My own "Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page" is specifically geared for the 
Champions GM; the URL for that is: 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm 
   I hope both are useful for you.   :-] 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:29:43 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Hero Games Website 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 01:03 PM 6/9/97 -0500, flacksd@evron.com wrote: 
>Does Anybody on the list know what is happening to the herogames 
>web site.  When I tried to connect to www.herogames.com I was told 
>that the site is no longer there.  From the message it appears that their 
>internet supplier is no longer in the web page business (but I am not 
>sure). 
> 
>Does Herogames have a new web site? 
>Will the old web site be returning?  If so, When? 
 
   Well, I just checked the URL you gave, and it seems to be working just 
fine (despite having not been updated for a couple of months). 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Voice Duplication 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 09 Jun 1997 15:04:56 -0400 
Lines: 25 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "JT" == John Turner <Avery1@flash.net> writes: 
 
JT> What is the mechanical difference between a mimicry roll and images vs. 
JT> hearing (specific) voices? 
 
Two big differences: one is range, the other is that the Images power does 
not require a skill roll. 
 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \  
                                    \  
 
X-Sender: ctaylor@mailhost.cyberhighway.net 
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 17:25:09 -0700 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberhighway.net> 
Subject: HA Game 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Having trouble reaching wpo@pop.cwru.edu, is this incorrect? 
 
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:06:01 -0300 (ADT) 
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net> 
X-Sender: tbarrie@drollsden 
Subject: Re: Thunderbolts 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 1 
 
On Sun, 8 Jun 1997, happyelf!!!! wrote: 
 
> > Don't feel bad about being "caught". 
 
Heck, if it weren't for those stupid "Dark Secret" ads, this would have 
been a near-total surprise. (Although a few people on Usenet figured it 
out based soley on their appearance in Hulk.) 
 
> > The T-Bolts happen to be more "heroic" (on camera, anyways) than 75% of 
> > heroes in comics today (this is by evil design, of course).  And who 
> > knows?  As time passes, they seem to be 'pretending' less and less. 
> > Even by issue #3, it'd be hard to imagine Abner Jenkins going back to 
> > getting beat up by Spidey. 
>  
> yeah-especially since he gets to beat spidey up in some story or another 
> as mach-1(i know, it's "unrealistic" if he does) 
 
I didn't find it unrealistic... he knew who was up against while Spidey 
didn't; his technology had undoubtedly been upgrader by Fixer; and most 
importantly, it _was_ two against one. 
 
> while the cliche of "villans turn up as heros but the real heros see 
> through them almost immediately" has been done a time or two . . .see 
> issue on of the new jla mag, fer instance. . . an actual cohesive look 
> at the behaviour and complications of a pretend hero hasn't- but don't 
> be suprised iff quite a few of them decide to stay bad. . . 
 
For the record, my predictions: Moonstone, Zemo and Fixer will stay evil, 
while Atlas, Mach-1, and Songbird will turn. Oh, and Jolt will stay a 
hero, of course. But Zemo is the only one I'd say is a complete lock to 
stay a villain. (In aforementioned story, Abner snaps him out of mind 
control by appealing to his Nazi ideals, for Pete's sake.) 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: R Jacobs <rjacobs@radiks.net> 
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 22:06:02 -0500 
Subject: Re: Hero Games Website 
Newsgroups: october.hero 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october.com!not-for-mail 
Lines: 10 
X-Sender: rjacobs@dial90.radiks.net 
X-Reply-To: rjacobs@radiks.net 
Nntp-Posting-Host: dial90.radiks.net 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 5 
 
 
 
>  When I tried to connect to www.herogames.com I was told 
> that the site is no longer there.  From the message it appears that their 
> internet supplier is no longer in the web page business (but I am not 
> sure). 
 
 
You might want to try again.  I had no problems connecting to their 
site. 
 
Rob 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:08:59 +1000 
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Subject: Re: Thunderbolts 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: topaz.cqu.EDU.AU ip 138.77.1.3 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 2 
 
 
 
anybody got any ideas how the whole "second alias" idea could be used easily in champs? 
 
 
 
At 07:46 PM 6/8/97 +0000, you wrote: 
> 
> 
>HE>so, has anyone seen the new THUNDERBOLTS mag? i feel a bit silly, having 
>HE>actually 
>HE>been suprised at the suprise ending to #1. it is about a bunch of villans wh 
>HE>pretend 
>HE>to be heros, with snazzy new costumes and stuff! 
> 
>    Yes. I have been reading it since issue #1. I have also gotten their 
>appearances in the Hulk and Spiderman Team-Up. Great book! 
> 
>    I have also been working up 4th Edition adaptations based on each 
>team member's stats in the Gamer's Handbook To The Marvel Universe. But 
>since the title is so new, I'm choosing to wait before finishing or 
>posting them until I have been able to get a better view of some of 
>their new abilities. 
>___ 
> X SLMR 2.1a X This tagline stolen by Silly Little Mail Reader! 
> 
> 
 
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dnasset@mail.gr.cc.wa.us> 
From: "David Nasset, Sr." <Filksinger@gr.cc.wa.us> 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:52:07 +0000 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay 
Priority: normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 9 
 
> Popinjay...   
>  
> Didn't he also "Pop" someone from Earth to Takis???  That's a heck 
> of a lot of non-combat multipliers...  :]) 
> 
 
Alternatively, you can give him FTL.  Lots and lots and lots and lots  
of FTL.  Assuming a transportation time of one second, about 28  
levels beyond the base for one light year, with one level for each  
doubling of distance.  While expensive, this is much cheaper than  
teleportation.  Simply declare that it is teleportation that can only  
be used through space.  It will then get you to the Moon or Mars, for  
instance.  For teleportation on Earth, you need the non-combat  
multipliers. 
 
The Blood teleporter Pathfinder brought everyone from Ean, and  
according to the book, Ean _could_ have been in our dimension.  This  
would give characters with the ability to teleport to other  
dimensions also the ability to teleport to other worlds.  While I  
don't think this is normally a proper usage, as it contradicts the  
BBB, I personally would declare that, for the same costs as any other  
advantage on Extra-dimensional Movement, you can buy Interstellar   
Movement as an additional feature, or buy only IM for the same price  
as EDM. The effects on the game are virtually identical, though  
people who bought FTL might object.  However, if you buy FTL, you can  
transport whatever you can carry, but with EDM you have to buy that  
ability by weight. 
 
Filksinger 
"No Silicon Heaven? Then where do all the calculators go when they die?" 
 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:07:53 -0500 
From: James Van Sickle <khaine@swbell.net> 
Reply-To: khaine@swbell.net 
CC: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Hero Games Website 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 6 
 
R Jacobs wrote: 
 
> >  When I tried to connect to www.herogames.com I was told 
> > that the site is no longer there.  From the message it appears that 
> their 
> > internet supplier is no longer in the web page business (but I am 
> not 
> > sure). 
> 
> You might want to try again.  I had no problems connecting to their 
> site. 
> 
> Rob 
 
  I have had problems trying to access their site in the past.  It can 
be slow to access, doesn't load all graphics, or gives a No DNS error." 
While that can all be linked to my provider, I wouldn't put it past it 
being their provider also.  Best advice is if you can't get to it now, 
try again later in the day. 
 
 
James 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: James Van Sickle <khaine@swbell.net> 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:07:53 -0500 
X-To: Multiple recipients of Hero <hero-l@october.com> 
X-Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Hero Games Website 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: mail1.rcsntx.swbell.net ip 151.164.1.2 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: khaine@swbell.net 
X-Reply-To: khaine@swbell.net 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 7 
 
 
 
R Jacobs wrote: 
 
> >  When I tried to connect to www.herogames.com I was told 
> > that the site is no longer there.  From the message it appears that 
> their 
> > internet supplier is no longer in the web page business (but I am 
> not 
> > sure). 
> 
> You might want to try again.  I had no problems connecting to their 
> site. 
> 
> Rob 
 
  I have had problems trying to access their site in the past.  It can 
be slow to access, doesn't load all graphics, or gives a No DNS error." 
While that can all be linked to my provider, I wouldn't put it past it 
being their provider also.  Best advice is if you can't get to it now, 
try again later in the day. 
 
 
James 
 
 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:46:43 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
Subject: Re: Hero Games Website 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 8 
 
James Van Sickle wrote: 
>   I have had problems trying to access their site in the past.  It can 
> be slow to access, doesn't load all graphics, or gives a No DNS error." 
> While that can all be linked to my provider, I wouldn't put it past it 
> being their provider also.  Best advice is if you can't get to it now, 
> try again later in the day. 
 
I have never had any of the above problems on the herogames web site 
(although, with a previous provider I often had the above problems on 
many web sites).  If I were you, I would complain to my service 
provider, this is definately a problem on their end. 
 
Todd 
 
--  
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 Todd Hanson                       Minnesota: Land of two seasons: 
 BadTodd@dacmail.net               winter is coming, winter is here. 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:51:22 -0500 
From: James Van Sickle <khaine@swbell.net> 
Reply-To: khaine@swbell.net 
Subject: Re: Hero Games Website 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 10 
 
Are you kidding?  I know the company that does SWBell technical 
support.  Hell, I worked for them!  The representative on the other side 
of that telephone will 9 out of 10 times NOT be able to fix your 
problem.  Besides the company they work for has a quick-fix-goodbye 
policy which does nothing but waste my time.  Besides I don't believe in 
concept of "owning" and "credit card" being in a sentence referrng to 
me. 
 
-- 
A soul in tension that's learning to fly 
condition grounded, but determined to try 
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies 
tongue-tied & twisted just an Earth-bound misfit, I 
 
From: DocTough@aol.com 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:01:02 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Thunderbolts 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 11 
 
In a message dated 97-06-10 04:35:39 EDT, you write: 
 
<< so, has anyone seen the new THUNDERBOLTS mag? i feel a bit silly, having 
actually  
 been suprised at the suprise ending to #1. it is about a bunch of villans 
who pretend 
 to be heros, with snazzy new costumes and stuff! 
  
 has anyone out there got any experiance with a simmilar type of champions 
game storyline? i think it's a pretty cool idea, myself. . . though it has 
been 
 around for a while, it's only ever been done superficially. 
  >> 
Doc sez... 
 
     I haven't Gm'ed such a situation but a friend of mine did something 
similar in his Champs game in which the villainous Destroyers from the V&V 
RPG played at being heroes while working to get their jailed comrades out. 
 It went on for a year and worked quite well.  This senario was played out 
about 5 years ago and is still quite memorable. 
 
Doc Tough 
 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:40:08 -0400 
From: David Tanner <nightmare@total.net> 
Subject: CHAMPIONS - Rule Questions 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 12 
 
<x-html><HTML> 
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi people! I need a few questions answered about some 
rules I don't fully understand. 
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; #1. How EXACTLY do Turn Modes work? I haven't been 
able to grasp this rule at all! I could use a detailed explanation on this 
one. 
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; #2. How do you determine the velocity at which somone 
can throw something/somebody, like with Martial Throw? 
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; #3. How would you determine damage if you threw 
a character into another character? 
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; #4. How would you determine damage if you threw 
an object at someone? 
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Those are my questions. If you could use examples 
when answering, it would be much appreciated. Anyone answering these questions 
should E-mail me directly at <B><U>nightmare@total.net</U></B> as I am 
not on the mailing list! Thanx in advance! 
 
<P>PS: I'm new to the game 
<BR>Raymond Tanner&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt; 
NEWBIE!!!! 
<BR>nightmare@total.net</HTML> 
</x-html>From ???@??? Wed Jun 11 20:38:18 1997 
Received: from emerald (emerald.omg.org [192.67.184.65]) by mars.superlink.net (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id TAA25222 for <why@mars.superlink.net&> Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:09:46 -0400 (EDT) 
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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:45:43 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Troll 
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970610144505.7918D-100000@access5.digex.net> 
MIME-Version: 1.0 
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-UIDL: ae6bab2f06ce5a04d48aa6eded1f0cc5 
Status: O 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 13 
 
TROLL 
(Howard Mueller) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Troll is *huge*.  He stands 9' tall and weighs over 800 pounds, with 
thick, green skin and red eyes.  He's strong enough to go toe-to-toe with 
many aces and tough enough to withstand impacts from small arms fire.  A 
native of Jokertown, he is currently employed as chief of security for the 
Jokertown Medical Clinic.  Note: Troll would make a pretty good Fantasy 
Hero troll as well (actually, make of the Wilcards characters would make 
interesting Fantasy Hero creatures). 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		38		18 
Dex		13		9 
Con		20		20 
Body		14		4 
Int		10		0 
Ego		10		0 
Pre		20		10 
Com		8		-1 
PD		8		2 
ED		8		4 
Spd		3		7 
Rec		10		0 
End		40		0 
Stun		40		2 
Char Total			75 
Power Total			81 
Total Cost			156 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
13	Growth: Two Levels, 0 END, Persistant, Always on 
	+10 STR, +2 Body, +2 Stun, -2" KB, -1 DCV, +1 PER, 9' tall, 880 
lbs 
21	Armor: 7 DEF (thick skin) 
4	Running: +2" (8" total), END 1 
9	1/2 END on STR, END 2 
 
3	Contact: Jokertown Clinic 12- 
2	AK: Jokertown 11- 
1	Bureacratics 8- 
5	KS: Literature 14- 
3	Oratory 13- 
1	Persuasion 8- 
2	PS: Jokertown Clinic Chief of Security 11- 
7	Streetwise 15- 
10	CSL: +2 with HTH 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
20	DF: 9' tall, green skinned joker 
10	Phys: 9' tall, requires special medical attention 
10	Psych: Quiet and withdrawn 
13	Experience 
 
(Troll created by [unknown], character sheet created by Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:07:16 -0400 
From: "William H. Dover" <dover@cs.sc.edu> 
Reply-To: dover@cs.sc.edu 
Organization: University of South Carolina 
CC: dover@usceast.cs.sc.edu 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 14 
 
Could someone email me a copy of this character?  I just joined the 
mailing list and missed the first posting. 
 
Thanks, 
 
Will 
 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:44:09 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Popinjay (revised) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 15 
 
[Changes made to the basic nature of Jay's teleport power] 
 
POPINJAY 
(Jay Ackroyd) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Meet Popinjay (he hates that nickname), possessor of one of the *sickest* 
powers you will ever see in a Champions character.  He's a projecting 
teleport with the ability to 'pop' anyone he sees to *anywhere* he's been. 
He has a number of standard locations (such as the NYPD 'Tombs').  His 
range seems to be unlimited (I stopped at allowing him to teleport someone 
anywhere on Earth).  Jay Ackroyd is a rather average looking man, 
middle-aged man who stands about 5'8" and weighs 145 lbs.  He has brown 
hair, brown eyes and usually dresses in worn suits.  He is a competent PI, 
specializing in divorce and missing person cases.  He's quite savvy when 
dealing with people and can often tell if someone is lying or other wise 
trying to avoid telling the truth.  Note: technically, in order to use NCM 
with teleport, one must wait one phase and then teleport.  Jay can just 
pop some one instantly.  GMS would either A) make this a GM's call power, 
or B) tack in an additional advantage (like say... +1/2) in order to do 
this.  Also note that Jay has Armor Percing bought on his teleport power, 
allowing him to affect people protected by Hardened Forcefields and the 
like. 
 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		10		0 
Dex		14		12 
Con		13		6 
Body		12		4 
Int		15		5 
Ego		14		8 
Pre		13		3 
Com		10		0 
PD		4		2 
ED		3		0 
Spd		3		6 
Rec		5		0 
End		26		0 
Stun		24		0 
Char Total			46 
Power Total			401 
Total Cost			447 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
320	Teleport: 10", x1,048,576 noncombat (~13,000 miles) (+100 pts),  
	x2 Mass (+5 pts), 10 Fixed Locations (+10 pts), 1 Floating 
	Location (+5 pts), Usable Against Others (+1), Ranged (+1), Armor 
	Piercing (+1/2), 0 END (+1/2), Not Usable by Self (-1/2), 
	Gestures (-1/4) 
 
6	Enhanced Perception: +2 
5	Detect: Lies 13- 
1	Perk: Private Detectives License 
5	AK: New York City 14- 
3	Conversation 12- 
7	Deduction 14- 
2	KS: Law 11- 
3	KS: Photography 12- 
7	Lockpicking 14- 
3	Persuasion 12- 
4	SC: Psychology 14- 
3	Security Systems 12- 
9	Shadowing 14- 
3	Stealth 12- 
3	Streetwise 12- 
1	WF: Pistol 
3	SL: +1 with PRE powers 
3	RSL: +4 vs RMod with Teleport 
10	CSL: +5 OCV with Teleport 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
5	DF: Constant wisecracks, even if in great danger 
5	Poor 
20	Psych: Code vs Killing 
15	Psych: Dislikes guns, won't carry one 
302	Experience 
 
(Popinjay created by George R R Martin, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:20:03 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Ti Malice 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 16 
 
TI MALICE 
 
Designers Notes: 
Ti Malice is one of the more... horrific creations of the Wildcards 
universe.  Born in Haiti in the early 50s, Ti Malice is a mere 2' 6" tall 
and weighs only about 30lbs.  He (it?) has no chin, a single tooth, pale, 
white skin, large black eyes and no hair.  He can't speak, can't eat and 
can only survive by feed upon someone else's blood.  This feeding uses his 
host's blood to supply oxygen and nutrients, but doesn't kill them.  While 
feeding, Ti Malice can contact his host telepathically, as well as control 
their actions.  He speaks (and acts) via his mounts.  While feeding, he 
secretes a highly addictive substance that stimulates the brain's pleasure 
center.  One 'kiss' from Ti Malice and your his forever. 
 
Note: Ti Mailice's telepathy powers are bought with the 'No Range' 
limitation.  Depending upon GM's choice, a further limitation (such as 
must touch subject) could be added.  Also note that Ti Malice's mounts 
should be expressed as followers, and can range from normal humans to 
powerful aces. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		0		-10 
Dex		6		-12 
Con		7		-6 
Body		7		-6 
Int		26		16 
Ego		30		40 
Pre		10		0 
Com		2		-4 
PD		1		1 
ED		1		0 
Spd		1		0 
Rec		2		2 
End		14		0 
Stun		11		0 
Char Total			21 
Power Total			159 
Total Cost			201 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
13	Shrinking: 1 Level, 0 END, Persistent, Always On 
	2'6", 30 lbs, +2 DCV, -2 PER, +3" KB 
-12	Running: 0" 
 
30	EC: Telepathy, No Range (-1/2) 
75	18d6 Mind Control, Telepathic, 0 END 
30	12d6 Telepathy, 0 END 
 
21	Transformation Attack: 1d6 Major, Cumulative, Penetrating, 0 END, 
	Works vs Ego Defense instead of Power Defense (-1/4), No Range, 
	Linked to Mind Control - Turns target into willing slave (ie 
	'mount') of Ti Malice 
 
10	Eidetic Memory 
10	Wealth 
3	Contact: Assorted Mounts 12- 
 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
20	DF: Stunted, skeletally thin humanoid.  He lacks a chin, teeth, 
	hair, has fish-belly white skin, no genitalia and large 
	protuberent black eyes. 
15	Dependence: Fresh human blood, per minute, 1d6 
20	Phys: Crippled Legs (Effective Running of 0") 
15	Psych: Addicted to sensations of *all* kinds 
15	Psych: Meglomaniac, desires to have as many 'mounts' as possible. 
15	Psych: Sadist, enjoys new sensations, regardless of what they are. 
1	Experience 
 
(Ti Malice created by John J Miller, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:27:14 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Warlock 
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WARLOCK 
(Peter Nance) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Warlock is a big man, standing 6'1" and weighing a good 185 lbs.  He is 
the leader of the Werewolves and *always* goes masked.  His choice of mask 
also determines the Werewolves's choice of mask.  Warlock's power is the 
ability to see imminent death in a person's face.  This death will occur 
sometime in the next 24 hours (or less).  Warlock tries to use this to his 
advantage, claiming to have a 'death curse' power.  His power also makes 
him completely afraid of mirrors, since he might see his own death if he 
looks into one. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		13		3 
Dex		15		15 
Con		13		6 
Body		13		6 
Int		14		4 
Ego		13		6 
Pre		15		5 
Com		10		0 
PD		5		2 
ED		3		0 
Spd		3		5 
Rec		6		0 
End		26		0 
Stun		27		0 
Char Total			52 
Power Total			81 
Total Cost			133 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
17	Precognition, 0 END, Only to see death on someone's face (-2), No 
Range 
 
	MA:JDirty Infighting 
4	Block  +2 OCV  +2 DCV  Block, Abort 
4	Disarm -1 OCV  +1 DCV  23 STR Disarm 
4	Punch/Backhand  +0 OCV  +2 DCV  4 1/2d6 Strike 
5	Roundhouse  -2 OCV  +1 DCV  6 1/2d6 Strike 
3	Takedown +1 OCV  +1 DCV  2 1/d6 Strike; Target falls 
 
6	Enhanced Perception:J+2 
5	Wealth 
3	Contact: Shadow Fist Society 12- 
1	Perk: Head of the Werewolves 
6	AK: Jokertown 15- 
3	Persuasion 12- 
2	WF: Knife, Pistol 
5	KS: Occult 14- 
3	KS: Psychology 12- 
3	Stealth 12- 
7	Streetwise 14- 
 
Disadvantages	 
75	Base 
5	DF: Always goes masked 
15	Psych: Terrorfied of mirrors 
10	Psych: Heavily into the occult 
5	Watched: Shadow Fist Society (MoPow) 8- 
23	Experience 
 
(Warlock created by John J Miller, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:30:51 -0400 
From: David Tanner <nightmare@total.net> 
Subject: Thanx people!/The New Millenium? 
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<x-html><HTML> 
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanx people. I've already recieved more than enough 
answers to those questions. You guys are great! I do have one more question 
I've thought to ask though. 
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Has Champions: The New Millenium come out yet, and 
if so, where can I get a copy? E-mail me at <B><U>nightmare@total.net</U></B> 
if it's out, and/or if you know of any stores that carry it (online/mail-order 
stores are good too!) 
<BR>Raymond Tanner 
<BR>nightmare@total.net</HTML> 
</x-html>From ???@??? Wed Jun 11 20:38:35 1997 
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Date: 	Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:03:37 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
X-Sender: rscott@uhunix4 
cc: champ-l@omg.org, Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> 
        champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay (revised) 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970610184307.18373D-100000@access5.digex.net> 
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970611000324.10820C-100000@uhunix4> 
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you are still missing the intergalactic teleport. :) 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:41:39 -0400 
From: "William H. Dover" <dover@cs.sc.edu> 
Reply-To: dover@cs.sc.edu 
Organization: University of South Carolina 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay (revised) 
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Michael Surbrook wrote: 
> Designers Notes: 
> Meet Popinjay (he hates that nickname), possessor of one of the *sickest* 
> powers you will ever see in a Champions character.  He's a projecting 
> teleport with the ability to 'pop' anyone he sees to *anywhere* he's been. 
> He has a number of standard locations (such as the NYPD 'Tombs').  His 
> range seems to be unlimited (I stopped at allowing him to teleport someone 
> anywhere on Earth).  Jay Ackroyd is a rather average looking man, 
> middle-aged man who stands about 5'8" and weighs 145 lbs.  He has brown 
> hair, brown eyes and usually dresses in worn suits.  He is a competent PI, 
> specializing in divorce and missing person cases.  He's quite savvy when 
> dealing with people and can often tell if someone is lying or other wise 
> trying to avoid telling the truth.  Note: technically, in order to use NCM 
> with teleport, one must wait one phase and then teleport.  Jay can just 
> pop some one instantly.  GMS would either A) make this a GM's call power, 
> or B) tack in an additional advantage (like say... +1/2) in order to do 
> this.  Also note that Jay has Armor Percing bought on his teleport power, 
> allowing him to affect people protected by Hardened Forcefields and the 
> like. 
One other thing that Jay does (as seen in WCVII) is that he has 
teleported someone (Ti Malice, I think, but I am not completely sure) 
into his nightmares.  This sounds like Extra-Dimensional teleport to me. 
 
Also, I am not sure about this, but has Jay ever teleported something 
non-living? 
 
Later, 
 
Will 
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:04:27 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay (revised) 
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On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Richard Scott wrote: 
 
> you are still missing the intergalactic teleport. :) 
 
He didn't really pull it off, so I'm not going to try and write it up.  I 
should point out that the write-ups are attempts to translate what is 
written in the GURPS Wildcards book only, if I adjusted the write-ups for 
everything that is revealed about the characters in the full series, I'd 
never get anything done...  (Granted I am considering doing a full 
re-write of Captain Trips considering what is revealed in "Turn of the 
Cards", but I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filksinger@pop.netaddress.com> 
From: "David Nasset, Sr." <Filksinger@dns01.ops.usa.net> 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:46:09 +0000 
Subject: Re: CHAMPIONS - Rule Questions 
Priority: normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
>     Hi people! I need a few questions answered about some rules I 
>     don't 
> fully understand. 
 
>     #2. How do you determine the velocity at which somone can throw 
> something/somebody, like with Martial Throw? 
 
With ordinary throwing, this is not covered by the BBB, and earlier  
books contradicted each other. 
 
With the Martial Throw, OTOH, the velocity referred to is the velocity  
that the thrown character was traveling at when he was thrown. 
 
Example: Thunderbolt, the flying brick, decides to destroy Greywing.   
Greywing is a highly skilled normal human, with a 20 STR and +2 DC  
with Martial Arts. Knowing that Greywing's best attack (10d6) cannot  
stop him, and wanting to make a grease stain of his opponent,  
Thunderbolt attempts a Move Through at 40"/phs. 
 
Greywing, seeing Thunderbolt coming in, waits for him to arrive, then  
performs a Martial Throw.  Greywing avoids the Move Through easily  
(OCV-8), and does his Martial Throw, STR+v/5, with +2 DC, for a total  
of 14 dice of damage. The reduced DCV caused by the Move-Through  
makes the Martial Throw a critical hit. Thunderbolt becomes known as  
Thunderdolt by his teammates. 
 
Filksinger 
The more I learn about computers, and the more I talk to the experts, the more I realise I will be making stupid mistakes for the rest of my life. 
 
X-Sender: ludator@softfarm.com 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:18:26 -0500 
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren) 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay (revised) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 09:41 AM 6/11/97 -0400, William H. Dover wrote: 
>One other thing that Jay does (as seen in WCVII) is that he has 
>teleported someone (Ti Malice, I think, but I am not completely sure) 
>into his nightmares.  This sounds like Extra-Dimensional teleport to me. 
 
It's been a long time since I read this, but my understanding was not that 
he teleported Ti Malice into his nightmares, but into the SOURCE of his 
nightmares: that is, Malice is now indistinguishable from all the other 
joker babies in formaldehyde at the Jokertown Museum. 
 
-- 
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ 
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely.               | 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ 
   Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: CHAMPIONS - Rule Questions 
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Date: 11 Jun 1997 12:13:20 -0400 
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "DT" == David Tanner <nightmare@total.net> writes: 
 
DT>     #1. How EXACTLY do Turn Modes work? I haven't been able to grasp 
DT> this rule at all! I could use a detailed explanation on this one. 
 
If you have a turn mode of 5" you must move forward 5" before you may make 
a hex side facing change. 
 
DT>     #2. How do you determine the velocity at which somone can throw 
DT> something/somebody, like with Martial Throw? 
 
It's a special effect since they hit "immediately". 
 
DT>     #3. How would you determine damage if you threw a character into 
DT> another character? 
 
Strength. 
 
DT>     #4. How would you determine damage if you threw an object at 
DT> someone? 
 
Strength, with a maximum equal to the DEF+BODY of the object. 
 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin. 
                                    \  
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:41:24 -0400 
From: David Tanner <nightmare@total.net> 
Subject: Thanx! 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 25 
 
    Thanx for the responses people! I have all the answers I need to the 
questions I asked. You guys are great!  :) 
Raymond Tanner 
nightmare@total.net 
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:24:56 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Hero Games Website 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 26 
 
At 01:46 PM 6/10/97 -0500, Todd Hanson wrote: 
>James Van Sickle wrote: 
>>   I have had problems trying to access their site in the past.  It can 
>> be slow to access, doesn't load all graphics, or gives a No DNS error." 
>> While that can all be linked to my provider, I wouldn't put it past it 
>> being their provider also.  Best advice is if you can't get to it now, 
>> try again later in the day. 
> 
>I have never had any of the above problems on the herogames web site 
>(although, with a previous provider I often had the above problems on 
>many web sites).  If I were you, I would complain to my service 
>provider, this is definately a problem on their end. 
 
   I wouldn't say "definitely."  I've had the above problems, plus failure 
to connect at all, with my own website (and the ISP I currently use for 
access is different from the location of my site, not to mention that it's 
often the only place having problems).  But given the nature of these 
problems, it certainly is most likely that it's James' ISP rather than the 
Hero Games computer. 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:25:51 -0400 
From: "William H. Dover" <dover@cs.sc.edu> 
Reply-To: dover@cs.sc.edu 
Organization: University of South Carolina 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay (revised) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 27 
 
Michael Surbrook wrote: 
> He didn't really pull it off, so I'm not going to try and write it up.  I 
> should point out that the write-ups are attempts to translate what is 
> written in the GURPS Wildcards book only, if I adjusted the write-ups for 
> everything that is revealed about the characters in the full series, I'd 
> never get anything done...  (Granted I am considering doing a full 
> re-write of Captain Trips considering what is revealed in "Turn of the 
> Cards", but I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle. 
>  
Jay did an intergalactic teleport in WCX and a "nightmare" 
(Extra-Dimensional?) teleport in WCVII. 
 
Will 
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:44:59 -0400 (EDT) 
X-Sender: nexus@uky.campus.mci.net 
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net> 
Subject: Missile Deflection Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At its basic level, Missile deflection sends the deflected attack off in a 
random direction. My question is, how much of an advantage or cost should be 
applied to have the attack "vanish" so to speak. Like a teleporter/ XD mover 
who's missile deflection sfx is teleporting the offending attack to another 
dimenson..... 
	Can God make a plot so twisted even he can't figure it out? 
			Tom Servo -MST 3K "The Island of Dr Fu Manchu"  
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:20:55 -0700 (PDT) 
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Missile Deflection Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 01:44 PM 6/11/97 -0400, Kim Foster wrote: 
>At its basic level, Missile deflection sends the deflected attack off in a 
>random direction. My question is, how much of an advantage or cost should be 
>applied to have the attack "vanish" so to speak. Like a teleporter/ XD mover 
>who's missile deflection sfx is teleporting the offending attack to another 
>dimenson..... 
 
   Frankly, I'd just call this a Special Effect.  If you play with such 
detail that this becomes a definite Advantage (e.g., it destroys recoverable 
charges, there's no chance for teammates and bystanders to be hit by random 
deflections, and so forth), then I'd call it +1/4. 
--- 
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library 
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:25:03 -0700 
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com> 
Reply-To: icepirat@ix.netcom.com 
Subject: Re: CHAMPIONS - Rule Questions 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Stainless Steel Rat wrote: 
> >>>>> "DT" == David Tanner <nightmare@total.net> writes: 
>  
> DT>     #1. How EXACTLY do Turn Modes work? I haven't been able to 
> grasp 
> DT> this rule at all! I could use a detailed explanation on this one. 
>  
> If you have a turn mode of 5" you must move forward 5" before you may 
> make 
> a hex side facing change. 
 
And you can use turn mod levels to reduce that by 1" per level. 
I think it's 2 pts for a level with a specific movement that can only 
adjust your turn mod.  I believe the BBB does have some examples, but 
one would have to check. 
 
-Mark Lemming 
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:51:19 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
Subject: Re: Missile Deflection Question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Kim Foster wrote: 
>  
> At its basic level, Missile deflection sends the deflected attack off in a 
> random direction. My question is, how much of an advantage or cost should be 
> applied to have the attack "vanish" so to speak. Like a teleporter/ XD mover 
> who's missile deflection sfx is teleporting the offending attack to another 
> dimenson..... 
 
Call it a special effect freebie.  It doesn't really gain you anything, 
so it's not worth paying any points for it. 
 
Todd 
 
--  
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 Todd Hanson                       Minnesota: Land of two seasons: 
 BadTodd@dacmail.net               winter is coming, winter is here. 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
From: qts@nildram.co.uk 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 97 22:04:15 +0100 
Subject: Re: Deadhead 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
In <wku3jbl78g.fsf@peorth.gweep.net&> on 06/06/97  
   at 06:03 PM, Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> said: 
 
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes: 
 
>MS> Seriously, that is another good question.  Deadhead absorbs the MS> 
>memories of anything he eats.  If he eats someone's brain, he can MS> 
>absorb their memories and a bit of their personality. 
 
>I would not model this with powers at all.  Instead, I would make 
>judicious use of various skills, especially knowledge skills, to 
>represent the accumulated information. 
 
Why not a Transfer with an obscenely long loss rate? 
 
----------------------------------------------------------- 
qts@nildram.co.uk 
----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: CHAMPIONS - Rule Questions 
X-No-Archive: yes 
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Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 11 Jun 1997 17:29:00 -0400 
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X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
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>>>>> "ML" == Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com> writes: 
 
ML> And you can use turn mod levels to reduce that by 1" per level. 
 
Correct, but they are not called such.  Each skill level with a movement 
power (2 point level) reduces the turn mode for that movement form by 1". 
Obviously, this only applies to movement forms that have a turn mode.  The 
Champions FAQ goes into more detail. 
 
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                                    \  
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Deadhead 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 11 Jun 1997 17:29:47 -0400 
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
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>>>>> "q" == qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> writes: 
 
q> Why not a Transfer with an obscenely long loss rate? 
 
Because Adjustment Powers operate on active points and "memories" have 
none. 
 
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                                    \  
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:31:25 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay (revised) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, William H. Dover wrote: 
 
> Michael Surbrook wrote: 
> > He didn't really pull it off, so I'm not going to try and write it up.  I 
> > should point out that the write-ups are attempts to translate what is 
> > written in the GURPS Wildcards book only, if I adjusted the write-ups for 
> > everything that is revealed about the characters in the full series, I'd 
> > never get anything done...  (Granted I am considering doing a full 
> > re-write of Captain Trips considering what is revealed in "Turn of the 
> > Cards", but I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle. 
> >  
> Jay did an intergalactic teleport in WCX and a "nightmare" 
> (Extra-Dimensional?) teleport in WCVII. 
 
Uh... I've just read WC #10 and I don't remember any such thing.  Tachyon 
stated that he *should* be able to, but he didn't actually pop anyone 
anywhere.  Now in WC #7, when he popped Ti Malice, the exact destination 
is debatable.  It also looks (to me) to be a 'one shot' power, and not 
anything he could do on command, so why bother?   
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:31:53 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay (revised) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Bryan Berggren wrote: 
 
> At 09:41 AM 6/11/97 -0400, William H. Dover wrote: 
> >One other thing that Jay does (as seen in WCVII) is that he has 
> >teleported someone (Ti Malice, I think, but I am not completely sure) 
> >into his nightmares.  This sounds like Extra-Dimensional teleport to me. 
>  
> It's been a long time since I read this, but my understanding was not that 
> he teleported Ti Malice into his nightmares, but into the SOURCE of his 
> nightmares: that is, Malice is now indistinguishable from all the other 
> joker babies in formaldehyde at the Jokertown Museum. 
 
Good point.  It's possible that's where Ti Malice went. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Missile Deflection Question 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 11 Jun 1997 17:33:15 -0400 
Lines: 27 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "KF" == Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net> writes: 
 
KF> At its basic level, Missile deflection sends the deflected attack off 
KF> in a random direction. My question is, how much of an advantage or cost 
KF> should be applied to have the attack "vanish" so to speak. 
 
Add me to the majority so far: +0 SFX advantage.  Just remember that this 
particular effect probably precludes the Reflection options.  An attack 
cannot both completely vanish and be reflected somewhere. 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- 
Version: 2.6.3 
Charset: noconv 
 
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fu6Sy0mXPneH6bR1uWgalIZqTg++VHaBZ+Wjhp8RrYLdz1P8b4LqW5F7litFSkr8 
Ta6v2lUCnw8qUlYfoi/aoo634A0f1wEnWkATfSMdEufD1AyTL85wWnEOseZFCrKH 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds. 
                                    \  
 
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filksinger@pop.netaddress.com> 
From: "David Nasset, Sr." <Filksinger@dns01.ops.usa.net> 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:41:28 +0000 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Fortunato 
Priority: normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 1 
 
> FORTUNATO 
 
> 15	Hunted: The Astronomer (more pow) 8- 
 
I admit to being a bit behind in the Wildcards books, but I thought  
the Astronomer was killed by Demise quite a while back. 
 
Filksinger 
The more I learn about computers, and the more I talk to the experts, the more I realise I will be making stupid mistakes for the rest of my life. 
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:49:27 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Jeremiah Strauss 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
JEREMIAH STRAUSS 
(The Projectionist, The Great Ape, Mr. Nobody) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Jeremiah Strauss stands 5' 10" and weighs only 140 lbs.  He really has no 
set features, since he can change his body's appearance at will.  Born in 
1942, Strauss doesn't quite seem to age.  For an extended period of time 
(over 20 years) he was the Great Ape, a 45' tall gorilla that bore a great 
resemblance to King Kong.  He caused the great New York blackout of 1965 
when he converted enough electricity to mass in order to pull that stunt. 
Nowadays Strauss is limited to humans.  He can mimic men and women, but 
has some trouble with voices.  He can create claws or teeth to fight with, 
and can open most locks by extruding his finger into the mechanism. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		10		0 
Dex		12		6 
Con		10		0 
Body		10		0 
Int		13		3 
Ego		11		2 
Pre		10		0 
Com		10		0 
PD		2		0 
ED		2		0 
Spd		3		8 
Rec		4		0 
End		20		0 
Stun		20		0 
Char Total			19 
Power Total			122 
Total Cost			141 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
40	Shapeshift - any humanoid, 0 END, Persistent 
7	+10 PRE, Linked to Shapeshift 
3	+10 COM, Linked to Shapeshift 
 
15	1d6 HKA (claws and/or teeth), END 1 
17	Lockpicking 18- 
 
1	Contact: Kenneth Strauss (of Latham and Strauss) 8- 
10	Perk: Wealth 
1	Acting 8- 
6	KS: Pre-1965 cinema history and trivia 15- 
5	KS: Famous actors/actresses 14- 
1	Mimicry 8- 
9	Stealth 14- 
7	Streetwise 13- 
 
Disadvantages 
75	Base 
5	Phys: Amneisac - lacks basic knowledge of news and events from 
	1965-1987 
10	Psych: Romantic, lacking in common sense 
10	Psych: Loves old movies, tends to mimic old film stars 
41	Experience 
 
(Jeremiah Strauss created by Walton Simons, character sheet created by 
Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:05:59 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Fortunato 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
FORTUNATO 
 
Designers Notes: 
Fortunato is a middle-aged man who stands 6'4" and weighs 170 lbs.  Of 
mixed parentage, he has light brown skin, black hair and eyes with 
epicanthic folds.  He normally dresses in fine suits or kimonos decoreated 
with mystical symbols.  Fortunato's wildacard power has granted him 
immense telepathic powers.  He can control minds, fly, create force walls, 
throw mental blasts, read the future (and the past), slow time (his SPD 
increase) and generally has a whole host of powers he can use.  Tachyon 
states that he is Earth's most powerful mental wildcard (Starshine may be 
the most power non-mental).  Fortunato derives all his power from tantric 
'sex' magic.  Tantric rituals feed his END Reserve, which then allow him 
to utilize his power pool.   
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		13		3 
Dex		18		24 
Con		16		12 
Body		14		8 
Int		23		13 
Ego		28		36 
Pre		20		10 
Com		14		2 
PD		5		2 
ED		5		2 
Spd		4		12 
Rec		6		0 
End		32		0 
Stun		30		1 
Char Total			125 
Power Total			356 
Total Cost			481 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
100	100 Point Variable Power Pool: Telepathic/Telekinetic Powers 
100	VPP Control Cost: No Skill Roll Needed, 0 Phase to Change Powers,  
	Limited Special Effects (-1/2) 
 
53	+8 Speed, Costs End, 8 END 
19	END Reserve: 120 END, 10 REC, Recovery requires Tantric Ritual 
	(-2) Feeds Power Pool and Speed Increase 
 
	MA: Karate 
4	Block  +2 OCV  +2 DCV  Abort 
4	Disarm  -1 OCV  +1 DCV  23 STR Disarm 
4	Dodge  +0 OCV  +5 DCV  Abort 
3	Legsweep  +2 OCV  -1 DCV  3 1/2d6 Strike; Target falls 
4	Punch/Snap Kick  +0 OCV  +2 DCV  4 1/2d6 Strike 
5	Side/Spin Kick  -2 OCV  +1 DCV  6 1/2d6 Strike 
 
10	Mental Defense: 16 DEF 
 
10	Wealth 
5	High Society 14- 
3	KS: 'Karma Sutra' 14- 
3	KS: Occultism 14- 
3	PS: 'Karma Sutra' 14- 
3	PS: Pimp 14- 
3	SC: Accounting 14- 
5	Seduction 14- 
7	Streetwise 15- 
3	Trading 14- 
1	WF: Pistol 
4	Lang:JEnglish (native), Japanese 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
10	DF: Mixed race (Japanese-black) man.  Very tall, thin, handsome 
	with a bulging forehead. 
15	DNPC: Geishas (normal) 11- 
15	Hunted: The Astronomer (more pow) 8- 
15	Psych: Protective of his women 
15	Psych: Impulsive, tends to be reckless in combat 
15	Psych: Tends to avoid the outside world, tries to stay to himself 
10	Rep: Pimp 11- 
286	Experience 
 
(Fortunato created by Lewis Shiner, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:19:35 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Modular Man 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
MODULAR MAN 
 
Designers Notes: 
Modular Man (aka Mod Man) has to be one of the more... unusual characters 
in Wildcards.  He is synthetic android, standing 6'2" and weighing 
anywhere from 200 to 400 pounds.  He is very handsome, although hairless 
and has a transparent skull.  Modular Man gains all of his power from his 
'flux capacitors', which allow him to fly, resist attacks and go 
insubstantial.  He also can mount an assortment of weapon modules into 
slots upon his shoulders.  Modular man is under the control of one Dr. 
Travnicek and is subject to the following orders: Obey my creator.  Guard 
his identity and well-being.  Test myself and my equipment under combat 
conditions by fighting the enemies of society in a way to gain maximum 
publicity for Modular Man Enterprises.  Preserve my own existence and 
well-being.  Note that Modular man, with an Ego roll, cantry and creativly 
'reinterpret' an order he doesn't really like.  Note that since he is a 
robot, he will lose powers if damaged and that he must be repaired by Dr. 
Travnicek if he is damaged. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		45		35 
Dex		24		42 
Con		25		30 
Body		20		20 
Int		18		8 
Ego		18		16 
Pre		20		10 
Com		18		4 
PD		9		0 
ED		8		3 
Spd		5		16 
Rec		14		0 
End		50		0 
Stun		56		0 
Char Total			184 
Power Total			447 
Total Cost			631 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
47	Multipower: Heavy Weapons, OAF, Can only switch slots in lab 
	(-1/2), Can only select one Heavy weapon and one Light weapon, or 
	two Light weapons from list (-1/2) 
4	u 20mm Cannon (H): 3d6+1 RKA, +1 Stun, AF 5, +2 RMod, 20 Shots 
4	u .30 cal MG (L): 2d6+1 RKA, +1 Stun, AF 5, +2 OCV, +3 RMod, 100 
	Shots  
2	u Dazzler (L): 4d6 Flash vs Sight, Explosive, END 6 
2	u Grenade Launcher, Explosive (L): 8d6 EB, Explosive, 5 Shots  
1	u Grenade Launcher, Smoke (L): Darkness vs normal sight, 3" 
	radius, 5 shots of 1 minute each (-0) 
3	u Grenade Launcher, Tear gas (L): 3d6 Flash vs Sight, 1d6 NND (Def 
	is not needing to breathe), AoE Radius 3", 5 shots of 1 Turn each 
3	u Lightning gun (H): 16d6 EB, 1/2 END, END 5 
5	u X-ray Laser (H): 4d6 RKA, Invisible to Sight (+1/2), No Range 
	Mod, +4 OCV, 1/2 END, END 7 
 
20	Desolidification: x3 End, END 12 
40	Force Field: 20 DEF, END 4 
30	Life Support: Full 
26	Mental Defense: 30 DEF 
150	Flight: 60" (x8 noncombat, 480"), 1/2 END, END 6 
18	Enhanced Perception: +6 
10	High Range Radio Hearing 
5	IR Vision 
25	Radar, 360 degrees 
 
3	Absolute Time Sense 
3	Ambidexterity 
3	Bump of Direction 
10	Eidetic Memory 
3	Lighting Calculator 
 
5	AK: New York City 
5	AK: USA 
3	AK (choice) 13- 
2	WF: Small Arms 
15	CSL: +3 with HTH 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
5	DF: Totally Hairless and has a transparent skull 
15	Phys: Does not heal Body damage (must be repaired) 
10	Phys: Still isn't totally sure how to be 'human' 
20	Psych: Must obey Dr. Travenick (VC, S) 
15	Psych: Determined to try everything (VC) 
10	Psych: Likes to romance 
456	Experience 
 
(Modular Man created by Walter Jon Williams, character sheet created by 
Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Comments: Authenticated sender is <slockard@oak.ncs.pvt.k12.va.us> 
From: "Shawn Lockard" <slockard@ncs.pvt.k12.va.us> 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:05:07 +0000 
Subject: Champions: New Millenium 
Reply-to: slockard@ncs.pvt.k12.va.us 
Priority: normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 5 
 
Hi. I am new to Champions, specifically starting with New Millenium.  
I bought Champions (3rd?) edition and some other books that go with  
it at discount, but never got to read them. Fuzion sounded  
interesting, and I am a fan of things Super, so I decided to get it. 
 
To make a long email shorter, i subscribed here to learn about C:NM  
and see what Champions fans thought of it, but  I haven't even seen  
it mentioned.SO I am curious... is it that bad? 
 
 
Shawn Lockard 
slockard@ncs.pvt.k12.va.us 
NCS System Admin & Webmaster - http://www.ncs.pvt.k12.va.us 
My Home Page - http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4074/ 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com> 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:06:30 -0400 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay (revised) 
Newsgroups: october.hero 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october.com!not-for-mail 
Organization: Prometheus Corp. 
Lines: 24 
X-Sender: richberg@nrf-as5s46.erols.com 
Nntp-Posting-Host: nrf-as5s46.erols.com 
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 2 
 
 
 
herolist wrote: 
>  
> From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
> Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
> Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay (revised) 
> To: champ-l@omg.org 
>  
> On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Bryan Berggren wrote: 
>  
> > At 09:41 AM 6/11/97 -0400, William H. Dover wrote: 
> > >One other thing that Jay does (as seen in WCVII) is that he has 
> > >teleported someone (Ti Malice, I think, but I am not completely sure) 
> > >into his nightmares.  This sounds like Extra-Dimensional teleport to me. 
> > 
> > It's been a long time since I read this, but my understanding was not that 
> > he teleported Ti Malice into his nightmares, but into the SOURCE of his 
> > nightmares: that is, Malice is now indistinguishable from all the other 
> > joker babies in formaldehyde at the Jokertown Museum. 
>  
> Good point.  It's possible that's where Ti Malice went. 
 
Possible, but Jay pictured the Nightmare itself as the destination, and when asked  
where he sent Malice he said he had no idea. He was pretty weirded out by the whole  
thing. I keep expecting a story where Malice manifests in Jay's mind. 
 
Comments: Authenticated sender is <slockard@oak.ncs.pvt.k12.va.us> 
From: "Shawn Lockard" <slockard@ncs.pvt.k12.va.us> 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:27:04 +0000 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
Reply-to: slockard@ncs.pvt.k12.va.us 
CC: champ-l@omg.org 
Priority: normal 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 10 
 
 
>  
> in the C:NM book.  Granted that's a bit of an over generalization, but the 
> common consenses was 'why switch?' (especally with my local gaming 
> group). Now, there are a few people on the list who liked the book and the 
> game system, and there is a mailing list dedicated to the Fuzion system. 
Do you know the address of that list? 
 
> Personally, I saw a few nice ideas, but nothing to make me dump all my old 
> 4th edition books and switch over. 
Reasonable enough. Will you buy the new source material and convert  
it to Champions 4th ed? Or do most people on the list develop their  
own settings? 
 
 
Shawn Lockard 
slockard@ncs.pvt.k12.va.us 
NCS System Admin & Webmaster - http://www.ncs.pvt.k12.va.us 
My Home Page - http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4074/ 
 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:57:36 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Fortunato 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 3 
 
On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, David Nasset, Sr. wrote: 
 
> > FORTUNATO 
>  
> > 15	Hunted: The Astronomer (more pow) 8- 
>  
> I admit to being a bit behind in the Wildcards books, but I thought  
> the Astronomer was killed by Demise quite a while back. 
 
Yes, but since I'm going to post The Astronomer and since this is ment to 
be a 'generic' Fortunato I included it.  The Astronomer does get the 
"Hunted by Fortunato" disad as well. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Opal@october.com (Opal) 
Date: 12 Jun 97 16:19:00 GMT 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Mille 
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october!opal 
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *  
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 21 
 
 
 
 h > Reasonable enough. Will you buy the new source material and convert  
 h > it to Champions 4th ed? Or do most people on the list develop their  
 h > own settings?  
 h >  
 h > Shawn Lockard  
 h > slockard@ncs.pvt.k12.va.us  
  
Since you asked about 'most people'.....  
  
I've never used a published game setting for a Champions game.  I've  
used Hero to run Super-Hero champaigns, Fantasy, and Science Fiction  
games.  Probably the oddest of these was a Science-Fantasy campaign  
I ran, set in the bizarre 'Dark Wheel Galaxy' - it included super-  
science, mutants, aliens, FTL travel, extradimensional beings, psionics,  
and even several types of magic.  The Hero System handled all of that  
with no problem.  
___  
 * OFFLINE 1.58  
 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:06:41 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: The Astronomer 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 4 
 
THE ASTRONOMER 
 
Designers Notes: 
The Astronomer is (was) one of the most evil beings to exist in the 
Wildcards universe.  He is an old man (born in 1925), who stands 5'5" and 
weighs all of 110 lbs.  He has thinning white hair, wears glasses and is 
best described as 'mole-like'.  He is usually confined to a wheelchair, 
although the proper use of his powers can allow him to bypass that 
problem.  The Astronomer practices a horrific form of death magic, gaining 
immense energy through the ritualistic slaying of his victims (usually 
young women).  Once the ritual is completed, The Astronomer is blessed 
with an huge energy reserve allowing him the utilize the following powers: 
astral projection, clairsentience, minor precognition, mind control, the 
ability to selectively erase memories, flight, invisibility to visual and 
mental senses, ego attacks, hand killing attacks, suppression vs *any* 
wildcard power, force fields and minor force walls, telepathy and an 
assortment of energy blasts.  The Astronomer is a *very* dangerous 
opponent. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		3/18		-7 
Dex		10		0 
Con		8		-4 
Body		8/23		-4 
Int		30		20 
Ego		36		52 
Pre		20		10 
Com		8		-1 
PD		2/4		1 
ED		2		0 
Spd		3		10 
Rec		3/6		0 
End		16/216		0 
Stun		14/36		0 
Char Total			77 
Power Total			629 
Total Cost			706 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
150	150 Point Variable Power Pool: Telepathic/Telekinetic Powers 
300	VPP Control Cost: No Skill Roll Needed, 0 Phase to Change Powers,  
	Limited Special Effects (-1/2) 
 
33	+200 END, Requires extended bloody ritual to use (-2) 
10	+15 STR, Linked to END bonus (-1/2), +1 STR per 7 END 
13	+15 Body, Linked to END bonus (-1/2), +1 BODY per 5 END 
18	Mental Defense: 20 DEF, Hardened 
 
3	Enhanced Perception +1 
10	Wealth 
10	Eidetic Memory 
 
3	KS: Egyptian Freemasons 15- 
3	KS: Occultism 15- 
7	Interrogation 15- 
3	Oratory 13- 
3	Persuasion 13- 
2	SC: Astronomy 15- 
2	SC: Mathmatics 15- 
2	SC: Physics 15- 
2	SC: Psychology 15- 
13	Ancient Greek (3), Cuneiform (1-literacy only), English (native), 
	Eygptian hieroglyhics (1-literacy only), French (4), German (4), 
	Latin (4) 
3	Linguist 
3	Scientist 
20	CSL: +4 with Variable Power Pool 
16	CSL: +2 with Combat 
 
Disadvantages 
150	Base 
5	DF: Short, old man with glasses and a mole-like appearence 
10	Hunted: Fortunato (AsPow) 8- 
10	Phys: Bad Sight 
10	Phys: Lame, must use a wheelchair (sometimes) 
15	Psych: Bad Tempered 
15	Psych: Bloodlust 
15	Psych: Meglomania 
15	Psych: Sadistic 
10	Rep: The Astronomer: evil leader of the Masons (ext) 8- 
451	Experience 
 
(The Astronomer created by Lewis Shiner, character sheet created by 
Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:17:50 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Xavier Desmond 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 6 
 
[I decided that I should give equal time to everyone in the Wild Cards 
books, so I'm going to also be presenting an assortment of jokers and nats 
(all taken from the GURPS Wild Cards books) in an attempt to 'fill out' 
the universe.] 
 
XAVIER 'DES' DESMOND 
 
Designers Notes: 
Xavier Desmond is a large man, standing 6' tall and weighing 180 lbs.  He 
was born in 1917, and was afflicted with the wildcard virus when Jetboy 
fought Dr. Tod over New York in 1946  He became a joker, having a two-foot 
trunk, complete with seven fully functional fingers, in place of a nose. 
He lost his wife, his job and his home soon after.  Moving to Jokertown, 
he found work at the Funhouse, eventually becoming the owner.  With time, 
he founded the JADL (Joker Anti-Defamation League) fighting for joker's 
rights.  His work resulted in his being called "The Mayor of Jokertown". 
Xavier died in 1987 (at the end of WildCards Book VII). 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		7		-3 
Dex		8		-6 
Con		8		-4 
Body		7		-6 
Int		18		8 
Ego		15		10 
Pre		15		5 
Com		6		-2 
PD		2		1 
ED		2		1 
Spd		2		2 
Rec		2		0 
End		16		0 
Stun		15		0 
Char Total			6 
Power Total			35 
Total Cost			41 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
3	Perk: The 'Mayor of Jokertown' 
5	Perk: Wealth 
1	High Society 8- 
2	KS: Economics 11- 
4	KS: Politics and Political scene 14- 
3	Oratory 12- 
3	Persuasion 12- 
3	PS: Investment banking 13- 
2	PS: Owner/manager of the Funhouse 11- 
3	PS: Writer 13- 
3	Streetwise 12- 
3	Trading 13- 
 
Disadvantages 
0	Base 
10	Age: 60+ 
10	DF: Man with 2' pink trunk (with 7 fingers) in place of a nose 
15	Psych: Feels a sense of duty to aid his fellow jokers (everywhere) 
6	Experience 
 
(Xavier Desmond created by George R R Martin, character sheet created by 
Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:22:28 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 7 
 
On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Shawn Lockard wrote: 
 
> To make a long email shorter, i subscribed here to learn about C:NM  
> and see what Champions fans thought of it, but  I haven't even seen  
> it mentioned.SO I am curious... is it that bad? 
 
Almost everone on this list plays 4th Edition Champions, and almost 
everyone on this list was either: 
 
A) unimpressed or 
B) uninterested  
 
in the C:NM book.  Granted that's a bit of an over generalization, but the 
common consenses was 'why switch?' (especally with my local gaming 
group). Now, there are a few people on the list who liked the book and the 
game system, and there is a mailing list dedicated to the Fuzion system. 
Personally, I saw a few nice ideas, but nothing to make me dump all my old 
4th edition books and switch over. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:51:06 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Leo Barnett 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 8 
 
REVEREND LEO BARNETT 
 
Designers Notes: 
Barnett is a tall, handsome man with blond hair, blue eyes and an 
excellent physical build.  He stands 6' and weighs 170 lbs.  A popular and 
well known TV evangelist, he truly believes that the wild card virus is 
the tool of the Devil.  He is disgusted by jokers and feels they their 
jokerdom is an expression of their sins.  On the other hand, he does try 
and feel compassion for the jokers themselves, as sort of 'hate the sin, 
but love the sinner' attitude.  Eventually, he becomes President (in the 
Cards Sharks books) and his ambition and disgust has grown to genocidal 
proportions. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		12		2 
Dex		14		12 
Con		13		6 
Body		12		4 
Int		20		10 
Ego		23		32 
Pre		18		8 
Com		18		4 
PD		3		1 
ED		3		0 
Spd		3		6 
Rec		5		0 
End		26		0 
Stun		25		0 
Char Total			85 
Power Total			65 
Total Cost			150 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
1	Perk: Priest 
2	Perk: Well respected preacher 
10	Perk: Wealthy 
2	Contact: Colonel Fincastle (his very wealthy father) 11- 
3	Acting 13- 
3	Bureacratics 13- 
5	High Society 14- 
4	KS Politics 14- 
3	KS: Psychology and Crowd Manipulation 13- 
3	KS: Theology 13- 
13	Oratory 18- 
13	Persuasion 18- 
2	PS: TV Evangelist 11- 
1	Seduction 8- 
 
Disadvantages 
75	Base 
15	Psych: Code vs Killing (personally, will *not* kill) 
15	Psych: Fanatical opposition to the wildcard and it's victims 
15	Psych: Protective of innocents (even jokers) 
15	Rep: Anti-joker priest 14- 
15	Experience 
 
(Leo Barnett created by Arthur Byron Cover, character sheet created by 
Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 97 15:01:31 -0400 
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net 
From: "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 9 
 
On 6/12/97 10:05 AM, Shawn Lockard (slockard@ncs.pvt.k12.va.us) Said: 
 
> 
>To make a long email shorter, i subscribed here to learn about C:NM  
>and see what Champions fans thought of it, but  I haven't even seen  
>it mentioned.SO I am curious... is it that bad? 
> 
There is a great deal of discussion of C:NM & Fuzion on the newsgroup  
rec.games.frp.super-heroes . There is also a Fuzion Mailing List that  
discusses C:NM and Fuzion rather heavily. You can subscribe by sending  
email to 
   "lists@pjh.org&" subscribe fuzion 
You may only post to that list from the account under which you are  
subscribed.  To send a message to that list, email the following address: 
     fuzion@pjh.org 
They also have a web site at:  http://pjh.org/~jad/fuzion/ 
 
Most of us here ar fans of Champions (4th edition) and have found  
Fuzion/C:NM somewhat lacking in it's coverage of the genre; However, we  
have been spoiled by having the best genre-simulating game around ;-) 
 
  .oooO        | 
  (   ) Oooo.  | David A. Fair 
   \ (  (   )  | SDS International 
    \_)  ) /   | dfair@sdslink.com 
        (_/    | 
 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:38:36 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 11 
 
On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Shawn Lockard wrote: 
 
> > in the C:NM book.  Granted that's a bit of an over generalization, but the 
> > common consenses was 'why switch?' (especally with my local gaming 
> > group). Now, there are a few people on the list who liked the book and the 
> > game system, and there is a mailing list dedicated to the Fuzion system. 
 
> Do you know the address of that list? 
 
No, but I'm sure someone on this list can tell you. 
 
> > Personally, I saw a few nice ideas, but nothing to make me dump all my old 
> > 4th edition books and switch over. 
 
> Reasonable enough. Will you buy the new source material and convert  
> it to Champions 4th ed? Or do most people on the list develop their  
> own settings? 
 
Depends on what the material is.  I have always worked within my own 
settings, ranging from a 1990's superheroic New York to a futuristuc 
anime-cyberpunk universe.  I buy all sorts of game books (GURPS, Feng 
Shui, etc) and borrow ideas from those.  If C:NM comes out with something 
interesting, I'll buy and convert it.  But I won't but it just to see what 
the new version of Dr. Destroyer looks like. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: ROJASA%BALIN.DECNET@UTHSCSA.EDU 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:43:29 -0500 (CDT) 
X-To: hero-l@october.com 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay (revised) 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: elzip.uthscsa.edu ip 129.111.1.11 
X-Smtp-Mail-From: ROJASA%BALIN.DECNET@UTHSCSA.EDU 
X-Vms-To: ELZIP::IN%"hero-l@october.com" 
X-Vms-Cc: ROJASA 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 12 
 
 
 
<begin previous message> 
 
herolist wrote: 
>  
> From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
> Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
> Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay (revised) 
> To: champ-l@omg.org 
>  
> On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Bryan Berggren wrote: 
>  
> > At 09:41 AM 6/11/97 -0400, William H. Dover wrote: 
> > >One other thing that Jay does (as seen in WCVII) is that he has 
> > >teleported someone (Ti Malice, I think, but I am not completely sure) 
> > >into his nightmares.  This sounds like Extra-Dimensional teleport to me. 
> > 
> > It's been a long time since I read this, but my understanding was not that 
> > he teleported Ti Malice into his nightmares, but into the SOURCE of his 
> > nightmares: that is, Malice is now indistinguishable from all the other 
> > joker babies in formaldehyde at the Jokertown Museum. 
>  
> Good point.  It's possible that's where Ti Malice went. 
 
Possible, but Jay pictured the Nightmare itself as the destination, and when asked  
where he sent Malice he said he had no idea. He was pretty weirded out by the whole  
thing. I keep expecting a story where Malice manifests in Jay's mind. 
 
<end previous message> 
 
It's been a while since I read them also, but I thought that he telported Ti 
Malice to the moon.  And the fact that Jay had never been to the moon, is what 
made the teleport seem strange. 
 
 
Alex  
 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:07:35 -0400 (EDT) 
From: "Jason A. Dour" <jad@bcc.louisville.edu> 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
Comments: Getting paid to be a geek is cool... 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 13 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Shawn Lockard wrote: 
> Do you know the address of that list? 
 
	Fuzion Mailing List: Hosted By PJH.ORG 
 
	To subscribe, send a message with "subscribe" as the subject to: 
 
			fuzion-request@pjh.org 
 
	There is a FML website at: 
 
			http://pjh.org/~jad/fuzion/ 
 
> Reasonable enough. Will you buy the new source material and convert  
> it to Champions 4th ed? Or do most people on the list develop their  
> own settings? 
 
	I create my own...borrowing when necessary or desired from tons of 
RPG materials, tons of novels, tons of movies, et cetera.  8) 
 
Jason 
# Jason A. Dour <jad@bcc.louisville.edu>                            1101 
# Programmer Analyst II; Department of Radiation Oncology; Univ. of Lou. 
# Finger for URLs, PGP public key, geek code, PJ Harvey info, et cetera. 
 
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Version: 2.6.2 
 
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Date: 	Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:51:27 -1000 
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu> 
X-Sender: rscott@uhunix4 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Fortunato 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 15 
 
could just put a caveat in - pre and post book such and such, as well. 
Simple enough. 
 
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu) 
--You were spectacular, Bob.  But not very effective. 
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win 
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals. 
 
On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
 
> On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, David Nasset, Sr. wrote: 
>  
> > > FORTUNATO 
> >  
> > > 15	Hunted: The Astronomer (more pow) 8- 
> >  
> > I admit to being a bit behind in the Wildcards books, but I thought  
> > the Astronomer was killed by Demise quite a while back. 
>  
> Yes, but since I'm going to post The Astronomer and since this is ment to 
> be a 'generic' Fortunato I included it.  The Astronomer does get the 
> "Hunted by Fortunato" disad as well. 
>  
> *************************************************************************** 
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
> *               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
> *            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
> *************************************************************************** 
>  
>  
 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:23:10 -0700 
From: Mike Sprague <sprague@VivaNET.com> 
Reply-To: sprague@VivaNET.com 
CC: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 14 
 
I've been pretty quite the last three years, due to workload, but 
now that I have email at home, homefully I'll be able to become an 
active member again.  :-) 
 
Shawn Lockard wrote: 
>> Personally, I saw a few nice ideas, but nothing to make me dump 
>> all my old 4th edition books and switch over. 
> 
> Reasonable enough. Will you buy the new source material and convert 
> it to Champions 4th ed? Or do most people on the list develop their 
> own settings? 
 
I do a bit of both.  I can convert most anything to the Hero System 
(current examples are Space 1889, Star Wars, Marauder and Man From 
U.N.C.L.E.).  What I look for is a well written supplement.  I really 
couldn't care less what gamming system it's written for!! 
 
For example, I reciently picked up the Babylon 5 book, and I like 
it!!  I couldn't care less whether the rules had gone through 
enough playtest or not or how well they worked, because I won't 
be using them. 
 
I intend to get Champions: The New Millenium soon (the local gaming 
store, Crazy Igor's, is having trouble keeping it in stock), but 
doubt I'll switch to Fuzion.  While the system looks fine, it just 
doesn't look good enough to bother switching to.  The jury is still 
out on that though. 
 
Fuzion or Hero (or GURPS or whatever) it really doesn't matter!  I 
can and do use it all.  Even if I switch from Hero to Fuzion, I can 
still use most of my 4th (and earlier) edition stuff.  No need to 
"dump" any of it. 
 
			~ Mike  (sprague@vivanet.com) 
 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:07:08 -0400 
From: The THUNDERBIRD <thunder@bconnex.net> 
Organization: The Kingdom of Thunder 
Subject: (no subject) 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 25 
 
subscribe thunder@bconnex.net 
 
From: DocTough@aol.com 
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:51:34 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 16 
 
In a message dated 97-06-12 14:42:42 EDT, Shawn writes: 
 
<< Hi. I am new to Champions, specifically starting with New Millenium.  
 I bought Champions (3rd?) edition and some other books that go with  
 it at discount, but never got to read them. Fuzion sounded  
 interesting, and I am a fan of things Super, so I decided to get it. 
  
 To make a long email shorter, i subscribed here to learn about C:NM  
 and see what Champions fans thought of it, but  I haven't even seen  
 it mentioned.SO I am curious... is it that bad?>> 
  
Doc replies... 
 
     Its not that it's bad, but after some serious and somewhat venomous 
debate on this 'List, a separate 'List was created to extinguish the Flame 
wars.  Fortunately, this arrangement has worked well and is the best for the 
situation as it now stands. 
 
     As a system by itself it not bad, but should have been better in its 1st 
edition considering the talent and the experience behind it.  On the whole it 
has some serious holes (no power generation system, many errors between what 
is written as a rule and what is shown in examples, etc) that should be 
addressed and are going to be corrected in the near future. 
     Its quicker and less complicated than Hero System Rules, but thats 
because they cut out a lot of the mechanisms that make characters in HSR a 
bit more unique and removed those complex aritnmetic calculations  ;-). 
 
     Will I switch?  No.  I find the current system has problems, but is 
still overwhelmingly better.  Since Hero/RTG is not ready to make a Champions 
5th ed yet, I'll continue to patch up the rules with home systems. 
 
     Will I use it?  Only by means that some of the concepts in Fuzion that I 
like are rules that I already use in my Paradigm Homerules.  I might even 
useit to run a short Fantasy Hero campign for some friends of mine who have 
only played AD&D and need a bridge to HSR rules and mechanisms. 
 
     Will I buy additional source materials?  As an serious fan of superhero 
genre games I have bought CNM (but then I also bought Superhero 2044 :-/). 
 However, I will probably have to really think about getting further 
CNM/Fuzion materials.  GURPs turned me off by the sheer volume of books you 
had to be aware of to get a good idea of the current rules, so.... 
 
     Give CNM a shot...if for no other reason than to givethe folks at Hero 
Games the capital to try to do a real C5 or print HSR/C4 material stright to 
paper instead of their planned marketting of new material  in electronic 
form. 
 
Doc Tough 
 
      
 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:17:54 +1000 
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au 
From: HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
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you really are better off learning championt 4th edition as well. both systems have their strenths, but hero is way better imho, and deffinitly a system any gamer should have a look at. 
 
 
At 02:05 PM 6/12/97 +0000, you wrote: 
>Hi. I am new to Champions, specifically starting with New Millenium.  
>I bought Champions (3rd?) edition and some other books that go with  
>it at discount, but never got to read them. Fuzion sounded  
>interesting, and I am a fan of things Super, so I decided to get it. 
> 
>To make a long email shorter, i subscribed here to learn about C:NM  
>and see what Champions fans thought of it, but  I haven't even seen  
>it mentioned.SO I am curious... is it that bad? 
> 
> 
>Shawn Lockard 
>slockard@ncs.pvt.k12.va.us 
>NCS System Admin & Webmaster - http://www.ncs.pvt.k12.va.us 
>My Home Page - http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4074/ 
> 
 
 
and now for my brand new signoff thingie. .  
 
 
 
HAPPYELF!!!    AKA    Michael John Jones        AKA      DIEHARD!                                                        
lord of               "How's my typing?               "last of the                       
goofy carnage:        phone: 1-800-BITEME"            tough-guy heros"                   
look fer me in                                        coming to a PBEM                   
iseek.com/                                            near YOU! (maybe)                  
TheGathering       (jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au)          
   :->~                       :-<~                        B->~ 
 
 
 
wow, i realy oughta cut that down,. . *lol* 
 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:20:55 +1000 
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From: HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
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>> Personally, I saw a few nice ideas, but nothing to make me dump all my old 
>> 4th edition books and switch over. 
>Reasonable enough. Will you buy the new source material and convert  
>it to Champions 4th ed? Or do most people on the list develop their  
>own settings? 
> 
 
it's mostly 'own settings', i think- he crux is that, for all the hype, D;tNM, still 
lacks what champs always lacked: a really cool setting.  
 
 
 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:37:00 +1000 
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From: HAPPYELF!!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
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doc tough said: 
>     Its quicker and less complicated than Hero System Rules, but thats 
>because they cut out a lot of the mechanisms that make characters in HSR a 
>bit more unique and removed those complex aritnmetic calculations  ;-). 
 
this I must be anal retentive about: Fuzion is not simpler!! hero is way more  
easy-to use overall, it's just that people have gotten used to calling it complex-it isn't: simple (pun) as that. 
 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:51:24 +1000 
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From: R Jacobs <rjacobs@radiks.net> 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:17:00 -0500 
Subject: TOTALLY MASSIVE List of Hero and Villain Names 
Newsgroups: october.hero 
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Hey gang, 
 
	In rec.games.frp.super-heroes, a number of individuals have submitted 
lists of names of various heroes and villains in their campaigns.  I've 
taken those lists and combined them.  The result is: 
	 
	THE TOTALLY MASSIVE LIST OF HERO AND VILLAIN NAMES 
 
        This list has been edited.  Duplicates have been taken out, 
foreign names without translations were removed and names that I 
basically didn't care for were also cut.  This edited copy of names was 
only supposed to be for my use (that is why I cut names and such) but I 
thought those of you on the list may actually get some use out of it.   
 
        I'm going to continue to maintain a list of Hero/Villain names 
(and eventually I'll probably put them on a web page) so if you've got 
any more villains/heroes or teams send them to me via E-mail and I'll 
get them into the list. 
 
        Also...if you use foreign names please include the name 
translation for those of us who do not speak the language or have a 
foreign dictionary handy...if you don't include a translation I won't 
add it to the list unless it looks really common. 
 
My e-mail is RJACOBS@RADIKS.NET 
 
Rob 
 
Here's the list so far: 
 
The TOTALLY MASSIVE List of Hero and Villain Names 
 
Edited by Robert A. Jacobs 
 
with Contributions from: 
	 
	Gene Ambacher 
	Craig Antoun 
	Sam Bell	 
	Shane Cherniss 
	Matthew Elmslie 
	Andrew S. Goldstein 
	Dennis Hartwiger 
	Terri Hartwiger 
	Sean Heath 
	Robert Jacobs 
	Mark Rouleau 
	Ron Rowe 
 
A 
	Abbess 
	Ablaze 
	Ace 
	Acid 
	Adamant 
	Aegis 
	Airspeed 
	Alaczar (Spanish: Fortress) 
	AlleyCat 
	Animus 
	Anti-Matter Man 
	Aqualung (guy with frog powers) 
	Arc 
	ArchAngel 
	Argus 
	Armadillo 
	Arsenal 
	Asmodeus 
	Astra 
	Atomaestro 
	Avion 
	Axe (a brick with an axe) 
	 
B 
	BackFlash 
	Badger 
	Ballistique 
	Banelord 
	Baron K 
	Barracuda 
	Basalt 
	Battery  
	Bile 
	Billy Blue Blazes (a speedster) 
	Bird of Prey 
	Black Adept 
	Blackbody 
	Black Falcon (Brick/Martial Artist) 
	Black Light 
	Blackmane 	 
	BlackShadow	 
	Blackthorne 
	Black Wolf 
	Blade Song 
 	Blast Off  
	Bloodletter 
	Bloodstone (a magic-based mentalist with a crystal focus) 
	Bloodsword (a big ninja) 
	Blood Warrior 
	Bludgeon 
	Blue Raider	 
	Brain Child (a midget with mental powers) 
	Brain Damage 
	Brain Freeze 
	Brainstorm  
	Briquette 
	Bruja 
	Buck Skin	 
	Bull 
	Bulle  
	Bullet 
	 
 
C 
	Cacophony 
	Calico 
	Captain Combat 
	Captain Gorilla 
	Cat Lord 
	Celcius 
	Chameleon 
	Chaos Hawk 
	Charmer (A mutant mentalist with a 30 comleness) 
	Checkmate 
	Chill 
	Chrome 
	Cinnamon Girl 
	Citius (Latin: Speed) 
	Concussion 
	Condor 
	Core Commander 
	Cortex 
	Cosmos 
	Crimebuster :  A martial artist and violent sociopath	 
	Crimson Advenger 
	Crossfire 
D 
	Damask 
	Darkchilde 
	Dark Elf 
	Darkhail 
	DarkKnight 
	Dayglo 
	Deathbolt 
 	Death Metal 
	Deathsong 
	Decibelle 
	Der Eisenwolf 
	Dervish 
	Destructeur 
	Detonator 
 	Diamond Jim 
	Diana 
	Domino 
	Downsizer 
	Dr. Power 
	Dune 
	Dusk 
	Dwindler 
E 
	Eagle Eye 
 	Eclipse (manipulates light has rod that shoots lazer) 
	Edge 
	Elastique 
	Elementalist   
	Elf 
	Eliminator 
	Elusive Butterfly 
	Eradicator 
	Erg  
	Express 
	Eye Tyrant 
F 
	Falcon  
	F.A.S.T.  
	Farseer 
	Feedback 
	Felina 
	Felon 
	Firefall 
	Firefight 
	FireFly 
	Flame 
	Flashback 
	Flower Child 
	Fly Girl 
	Force 
	Fracas 
	Freak-Out	  
	Frenzy 
	Frequent Flyer 
	Frost 
	Frostbite  	  
	Fuhrer 
	Fuji 
G 
	Gargoyle 
	Gauntlet 
	Geistmeister 
	Gemini 
	Genocide 
	Ghost Girl 
	Giggler 
	Glitter 
	Golden Eagle II 
	Golden Girl 
	Gothyk 
	Green Dragon 
	Grenadier 
	Grido 
	GrimKaiser 
	Ground Zero 
	Guillotine 
H 
	Hammer 
	Hammer of God (Ogre from Champions [only he's found religion]) 
	Hardcase 
	Harlequin  
	Headbanger 
	Headhunter 
	Heavy Metal 
	Hellfire 
	Hellrazor 
	Hemlok 
	Herr Krebs (Mr Cancer) 
	Hitman 
	Holocaust 
	Hornet	 
	Hunter-Killer 
I 
	Ice Fury (Magic User) 
	Ice Storm 
	Imagine 
	Impostor 
	Incandesca 
	Incendie 
	Inferno 
	Infinity 
    	Intuition 
	Iron Mask 
J 
	Jackdaw 
	Javelin 
	Jester 
K 
	Kane 
	Kibosh 
	Krieger 
	Kriegspeil 
	Kutter 
 L 
	Ladykiller 
	Lady Marmalade 
	Lady Steele 
	Lady Willpower 
	Lenz:  Underpowered Light-based character 
	Lichtstrahl 
	Lilith 
	Lithos 
	Lone Star (Defender of Texas) 
	Long Horn (A minotaur who's also a Texas Ranger) 
M 
	Mach 5 
	Machete 
	Macro 
	Magnifico 
	Mandrake:  A magician (duh) 
	Manslaughter 
	Man-Spider 
	Martinet 
	Material Girl  
	Matte Black 
	Mean Mr. Mustard (a villain, natch.) 
	Mecha 
	Mechanon 
	Megalith 
	Megavolt 
	Mentalita 
	Merc 	 
	Merry-Andrew 
 	Mind Blade 
	Mind Flayer 
	Minus 
   	Minx 	 
	Mist Demon 
	Mollock the Eater of Children (a demon) 
	Monsier Diamont 
	Moonshooter 
	Moonstone 
	Mr. Otto 
	Mr. Peppermint Man 
	Mr. Soul 
	Mr. Zero	 
	Multipleman:  The man who can do anything, just not very well 
	Myriad (duplication) 
N 
	Napalm 
	Nefario 
	Negatron 
	Nemesis 
	Neurosis (a mentalist) 
	Nightengale 
	Night Racer (Mutant speedster who runs faster at night) 
	Nightshifter 
	Nightstrike 
	Nightswift 
	Nuetron Star 
	Nukewarm 
O 
	Oberon 
	Olympia 
	Operative 
	Overdrive 
	Overkill 
P 
	Pacificateur 
	Paladin:  A violent, murderous, self-righteous thug  
	Panzer 
	Paragon 
	Parasite  
	Parsec	 
	Particle Man 
	Phantom Woman 
	Phaze 
	Photon 
	Portal 
	Powerhouse 
	Power Princess  
	Predator	 
	Prism	 
	Proletarian (Russian Brick) 
	Prowler 
	Psi-Borg (Cyborg Mentalist) 
	Psifire 
	Psi Mistress 
	Psion 
	Psychedelic 
	Psyke-Out 
	Psy-kill 
	Pulsar	 
	Purple Haze 
	Pyre 
Q  
	Quad 
	Quadrant 
	QuickSilver 
R 
	Radioactive Man 
	Rage  
	Rampager 
	Random 
	Raptor 
	Reaver 
	Recoil 
	Red Baron 
	Red Devil 
	Redline 
	Red Lion 
 	Red Rajah 
	Red Spectrum 
	Reflex 
	Replay 
	Restart 
	Retribution (Brick with titanium claws) 
	Revenant 
	Reverie 
	Rhino 
	Ringmaster 
	Ripclaw 
	Rose 
	Rosetta (rocky skin and universal translator ability) 
	Roulette 
	Rubberband Man 
	Ruckus (a rockstar that can turn light to sound) 
S 
	Sable 
	SabreHawk 
	Sahara 
	Salvo 
	Sandstorm 
	Sargon  
	Savante (Super intellect) 
	Savateuse 
	Scari 
	Scarlet Canary 
	Scathe  
	Screaming Hawk 
	Seizure 
	Seker:  An archaeologist blessed by the Egyptian god of light 
	Serephena (An angel) 
	Seventh Son 
	Sgt Steel:  A Green Beret with a metallic coating in a 	 
post-apocalypse future 
	Shadow Dancer 
	ShadowMaster 
	Shadow Queen  
	Shadowscan 
	Shadow Stalker (Mutant with invisability only in darkness or 		shadows) 
	Shadowsword 
	Shadowweaver 
	Shaman  
	Shapeless 
	Shard  
	Sharpshooter 
 	Shatter 
	She Cat 
	Shiver 
	Shockwave 
	Shooting Star 
	Shrapnel 
	Silk Spider 
	Silverblade	 
	Silverfox 
	Silvershield 
	Silversiren  
	Silver Stilleto 
	Silverstone 
	Silverstreak 
	Silverswift 
	Siphon 
	Sitcom 
	Skylark  
	Smasher 
	Snap 
	Solitaire 
	Soundwave 
	Spartan 
	Spectra 
	Speed Metal 
	Spider 
	Spike 
	Spit 
	Sprite 
  	Spud 
	Squid 
 	Stalker 
	Starmaster 
	Star Raven 
	Steel 
	Stella Polare 
	Stilleto 
	Sting 
	Stone Mage 
 	Stoner (a Thing-like brick) 
	Strafe 
	Stryke 
	Studs 
 	Sturm 
	Succubus  
	Sunburst 
	Sunspot 
 	Supersonic 
	Surf 
	Surge	 
	Suzie Lightning 
T 
	Tabu:  Punk rock singer/guitarist who can manifest the 		horrifying 
power of the ID 
	Talon 
	Tangle 
	Tempest 
	Terra 
	Terrain 
	Testarossa 
	The Adept 
	The Arm 
	The Fool 
	The Horror 
	The Lemurian 
	The Minx 
	The Orb 
	The Ripper 
	The Walrus (and sidekick, Eggman) 
	Thrash 
	Thrasher 
	Thunder  
	Thunderfist 
	Tiffany Jones:  She's got a code against doing stun 
	Tigress 
	Torch 
	Torque 
	Torrid 
	Toxic 
	Transformer Man 
	Tri-clops  
	Trident 
	Tundra 
U 
	Ultimate Warrior 
	Umbriel 
	Underhand 
V  
	V 
	Veil (A magic user that uses belly dancer veils) 
	Vesuvius 
	Vigil 
	Violator 
W 
	Wanderer  
	War Cry 
	Warlord 
	Warp 
	Warp Dragon 
	Warp Mind 
	Warp Speed 
	Warp Stone 
	Warp Witch 
	WetWare 
	Whipcord 
	Whirlwind 
	Whiskeyjack 
	Whitecap 
	Whitefeather 
	Widow Maker 
	Wildthing 
	Windchill 
	Windstorm 
	Winter Wolf (Werewolf Brick) 
	Wraith 
	Wrecker 
X 
	X-1 - The Negative Man:  Energy vampire 
	X-Calibre 
Y 
	Yellow Rose (Blaster/Texas Ranger) 
Z 
	Zapp 
	Zenith 
	Zero 
	Zodiac 
 
TEAMS 
 
Cadre (mercenary group) 
	Camou 
	Assault 
	Ambush 
	Fusillade 
	Recon 
	Evac 
 
Fourshadow (criminal group) 
	Ink 
	Coal 
	Jet 
	Ebony 
 
Asskicker and Nametaker (a good melee combat guy and a mentalist) 
 
ID and Ego (ID's the Brick and Ego is a mentalist -- think MULTIFORM) 
 
Thunder and Lightning (Bro/Sis team -- Close Combat and Ranged Combat) 
 
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified) 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 04:19:46 -0500 
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us> 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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At 02:05 PM 6/12/97 +0000, Shawn Lockard wrote: 
>To make a long email shorter, i subscribed here to learn about C:NM  
>and see what Champions fans thought of it, but  I haven't even seen  
>it mentioned.SO I am curious... is it that bad? 
> 
 
  I can only give my personal opinions: 
 
a) the fuzion game rules suck sh-t! They represent a GIANT step backwards 
in the evolution of the Champions game system. I understand the desire to 
make the rules easier to understand, in an effort to attract new players, 
but going to an entirely new game system was a mistake. 
 
b) the revised "Champions Universe" history, etc generates (at best) mixed 
feelings from me. When I first read it, I was appalled! What have you done 
to my favorite characters?!?  
  Upon forcing myself to re-read it, I understand the logic behind what 
they did (mostly an attempt to "Update" the universe to the '90s style of 
Comic). The only things I still have qualms about are: 
 
	a)	Dr Destroyer as some sort of Cosmic Enitity? Yeah Right. 
	b)	Killing of all of the heroes, but leaving most of the villains 
		either untouched or "improved" (ie: More powerful than ever) 
 
  The entire thing feels like yet another attempt to increase the power 
level of the Champions Universe, which it REALLY didn't need. 
 
------------ 
Related subject: 
 
  Has anyone ever noted the escalating power levels in the Champions Universe? 
In the BBB Seeker is built on (IIRC) 250 points. In the Champions Universe 
"update" this is raised to somewhere around 400 (I don't have the book 
handy), and in Watchers of the Dragon they re-write him yet again to OVER 
500 points. 
 
  I can't speak for everyone, but the longest campaign I ever ran stated at 
250, and after 8 YEARS of play (1 session per week) the highest point total 
was 389... 
Every game I ever started at the 375 level fell apart under it's own weight 
before the players could reach 400 points. 
 
From: Chuff78002@aol.com 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:59:56 -0400 (EDT) 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
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In a message dated 12/06/97  06:42:42pm, you write: 
 
<<  
 Hi. I am new to Champions, specifically starting with New Millenium.  
 I bought Champions (3rd?) edition and some other books that go with  
 it at discount, but never got to read them. Fuzion sounded  
 interesting, and I am a fan of things Super, so I decided to get it. 
  
 To make a long email shorter, i subscribed here to learn about C:NM  
 and see what Champions fans thought of it, but  I haven't even seen  
 it mentioned.SO I am curious... is it that bad? 
  >> 
 
Well, it isn't perfect but then again what is ?  I have very mixed feelings 
for th elife path character creation technique, but on the other hand 
character creation has been speede up somewhat.  
For instance all this -1/4 and +1 1/2 for determing costs has been eliminated 
which, as I'm no great mathematician I find to be of great help. 
On the - side of things, the ability to constantly shift points from the pp 
pool to the op pool and vice versa, is a little off 'cause players could slow 
things down by switching ad infinitum during the creation process.  Perhaps a 
limit should have been imposed, although the 5 points for 1 swap makes people 
think rather a lot more before they do this. 
the above by the way, is great for newbie players who maybe have been put off 
Hero by all that damned number crunching. 
 
Combat has been speeded up considerably with the rule that 5 points of stun 
equals 1 kill ( body ), no more adding up all those 1's and 2's.  Conversion 
of existing characters to Fuzion isn't too hard either but the other way can 
cause a few problems or so I've heard...... 
 
to sum up, yes I DO like fuzion, and you'll always get the die hard's out 
there who won't play it, but I'm more than happy to accomodate players either 
way, i.e quite happy to run Hero or Fuzion or indeed, as the name implies, 
mixture of the two... 
 
Chuff78002. 
 
X-Sender: mgill@mychoice.net 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 11:55:20 +0000 
From: Michael Gillespie <mgill@mychoice.net> 
Subject: Re: Couple of question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
At 11:44 AM 6/13/97 -0400, Patrick Barden wrote: 
>Need some feedback on a few powers. 
> 
>1)      Only in hero ID is a 1/4 limitation.  How much of a limitation would 
>you give to a power that works "Only Out of Hero ID"  I have two characters 
>that I want to have regeneration that only works when they are powered down 
 
IMC, it would depend on how often he was typically in his non-hero ID 
during an adventure.  For most campaigns, I'd say a -1/2 Limit.  If his 
secret or non-hero ID is hardly ever brought out during an adventure, only 
between adventures or when long periods of time elapse, I'd go with a -1. 
And if he spends most of his time in non-hero ID (maybe his powered form is 
dangerous and he dislikes using it), then it wolud only be worth -1/4, but 
then Only in hero ID would be worth at least -1/2. 
 
> 
>2)      I want to create a character whose body learns to resist attacks 
>that are subsequent.  The first time his opponent hits him with a specific 
>type of attack he takes damage normally.  With each subsequent attack he 
>gains a level of damage  reduction for the attack.ie.  
>1st time nornal defenses 
>2nd time 25% damage reduction 
>3rd time 50% damage reduction 
>4th time and up 75% damage reduction 
>This would only last for the current combat and would reset anytime the 
>character leaves combat and powers down. 
>My question is how would you handle pricing the limitations on this. 
 
Assuming you mean it resets with each different attack power (in other 
words, if Durak punches you twice, you'd get 25% on the second strike. Then 
in the same fight, Pantera hits you-- you'd get no Dam.Red. vs. her first 
attack, but her 2nd would give you 25%, and either villains' 3rd hit would 
give you 50%), then I'd buy it as 75% Damage Reduction (on whatever 
defenses you can do this with) with a -1 Limitation. 
 
If you meant that no matter who attacked you, or with what, the damage 
reduction got better each time you were hit, I'd say it's only worth -1/2, 
maybe only -1/4. 
I'd probably say -1/2 if you had a high DCV and otherwise low defenses, 
otherwise -1/4 seems about right. 
 
 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 97 08:46:33 -0400 
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net 
From: "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> 
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On 6/13/97 5:19 AM, Earl Kwallek (earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us) Said: 
 
> 
>  I can't speak for everyone, but the longest campaign I ever ran stated at 
>250, and after 8 YEARS of play (1 session per week) the highest point total 
>was 389... 
>Every game I ever started at the 375 level fell apart under it's own weight 
>before the players could reach 400 points. 
 
Assuming you play for 8 years at only 40 weeks per year (that's 1 week  
per month off) and everyone gets only 1 exp per session, a 250 starting  
character would be at 250+320=570 exp by the end. This is very low in my  
experience. I ran a campaign that lasted about 4 1/2 years, the  
characters were 150+150 to start, and at the end, were between 550 and  
800 points. 
 
  .oooO        | 
  (   ) Oooo.  | David A. Fair 
   \ (  (   )  | SDS International 
    \_)  ) /   | dfair@sdslink.com 
        (_/    | 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Robert Challenger <thanos@zip.com.au> 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:59:47 +1000 
X-To: Multiple recipients of Hero <hero-l@october.com> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Popinjay (revised) 
X-Listname: Hero 
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ROJASA%BALIN.DECNET@UTHSCSA.EDU wrote: 
>  
> It's been a while since I read them also, but I thought that he telported Ti 
> Malice to the moon.  And the fact that Jay had never been to the moon, is what 
> made the teleport seem strange. 
>  
 
 Ok, i have to ask this: 
 
 *WHY* did you think he was sent to the moon?? 
 
 I mean Ti Malice being put in with the joker babies makes some sense, 
but i cant think of any connection between the moon and Jays nightmares 
[well, except they both were observed while jay was asleep 8P] 
 
 Not having a go, just curious?? 
 
--  
Don't think cause I understand, I care..	|	Robert Challenger 
Don't think cause I'm talking, we're friends..	|	Thanos@Zip.Com.Au 
     - 6 Underground, Sneaker Pimps.		| 
		Manic Depressive Dragon			-==(UDIC)==- 
 
 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:28:16 -0600 
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net> 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 28 
 
David A. Fair wrote: 
>  
> On 6/13/97 5:19 AM, Earl Kwallek (earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us) Said: 
>  
> > 
> >  I can't speak for everyone, but the longest campaign I ever ran stated at 
> >250, and after 8 YEARS of play (1 session per week) the highest point total 
> >was 389... 
> >Every game I ever started at the 375 level fell apart under it's own weight 
> >before the players could reach 400 points. 
>  
> Assuming you play for 8 years at only 40 weeks per year (that's 1 week 
> per month off) and everyone gets only 1 exp per session, a 250 starting 
> character would be at 250+320=570 exp by the end. This is very low in my 
> experience. I ran a campaign that lasted about 4 1/2 years, the 
> characters were 150+150 to start, and at the end, were between 550 and 
> 800 points. 
 
The longest campaign I was in lasted 10 years (started under 2nd ed.) 
begining points were around 350-375 (2nd then 3rd ed rules). When the 
campaign folded (due to too many constrainst on the time and energy of 
the GM not due to lack of interest) the oldest character were floating 
around 900-1100 and were doing just fine. 
 
My current campaign has run (off and on) 6 years and the PC are between 
300 (for the new blood) and 450 or so (the characters are 4th ed 
100+150). 
 
All of these played weekly. 
--  
-Mhoram 
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your 
 two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright 
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain: 
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm 
 
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net> 
Subject: Crawling Exp Syndrome (Was: Re: Champions: New Millenium) 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:28:30 -0400 (EDT) 
Organization: VTSFFC 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 29 
 
> experience. I ran a campaign that lasted about 4 1/2 years, the  
> characters were 150+150 to start, and at the end, were between 550 and  
> 800 points. 
 
  A common technique I've seen used to prevent PC's from becoming  
demigods is for each player to have multiple characters.  Alternate which 
ones are played, and the GM can hand out reasonable amounts of exp per 
session.  It also allows some "tailoring" of a plot to the available 
characters. 
 
                                              Daniel Pawtowski 
dpawtows@vt.edu 
 
From: "Clint Fishback (Contractor)" <C-Fishback@mail.dec.com> 
Subject: Computers 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:59:26 -0400 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
I am trying to build a computer for the game I am going to start  
running. The premise is that it will be able to connect to other  
computers via satellite uplink. I've bought the connect as: 
Mind Link- Limited group of minds (computers), Any number, Psychic  
link, 1 turn delay startup, 14< Activation, Only with other computers  
with Mink Link. 
 
The part I am trying to figure out is what Knowledge and/or  
professional skills would you give? 
 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 11:44:39 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: Re: Voice Duplication 
Cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 31 
 
At 11:34 PM 6/7/97 -0400, Urklore The Iron wrote: 
>I was wondering, 
>	How would any of you do the power of voice mimicry. You know, the way Data 
>could sound like any one of the STNG members and the like. The Mimicry 
>skill does not work well, it is a learned skill. It does not function well 
>for 100% accuracy like a computer could. I was thinking maybe change 
>enviroment for the ability to mimic voices? 
 
Okay here goes my version. 
 
Images bought with the limitations audible components only, requires a 
mimicry skill roll for success.  Oponents would get a PER roll with 
appropriate modifiers to notice minor errors in the voice. 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 11:44:40 -0400 
X-Sender: absga@elbertonga.com 
From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> 
Subject: Couple of question 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 32 
 
Need some feedback on a few powers. 
 
1)      Only in hero ID is a 1/4 limitation.  How much of a limitation would 
you give to a power that works "Only Out of Hero ID"  I have two characters 
that I want to have regeneration that only works when they are powered down 
 
2)      I want to create a character whose body learns to resist attacks 
that are subsequent.  The first time his opponent hits him with a specific 
type of attack he takes damage normally.  With each subsequent attack he 
gains a level of damage  reduction for the attack.ie.  
1st time nornal defenses 
2nd time 25% damage reduction 
3rd time 50% damage reduction 
4th time and up 75% damage reduction 
This would only last for the current combat and would reset anytime the 
character leaves combat and powers down. 
My question is how would you handle pricing the limitations on this. 
 
Patrick B. 
 
 
 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Voice Duplication 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 13 Jun 1997 13:02:59 -0400 
Lines: 24 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 34 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "PB" == Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> writes: 
 
PB> Images bought with the limitations audible components only, 
 
This is worth nothing since Images is defined as operating against a sense 
group, such as "sound". 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- 
Version: 2.6.3 
Charset: noconv 
 
iQCVAwUBM6F9QJ6VRH7BJMxHAQF12QQAwKZ949z0rauJWFs8NEQVuOaDBXczjhcw 
RExZIAS1Gtaa3CWLCWhdhnGadJstveUuwHJjWbJRlWKIB7DM693qVKFAMKogM7ia 
Xo5qLJA87UN2SZtJ26vMIKisrzSLDTqlaKAorAcAG3/7D9nh2M14QPy+Ss6Zhk/O 
P/99Aaum4oU= 
=y03L 
-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 
 
--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to 
                                    \ Earth, presumably from outer space. 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Couple of question 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 13 Jun 1997 13:08:25 -0400 
Lines: 36 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 33 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "PB" == Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com> writes: 
 
PB> 1)      Only in hero ID is a 1/4 limitation.  How much of a limitation 
PB> would you give to a power that works "Only Out of Hero ID" I have two 
PB> characters that I want to have regeneration that only works when they 
PB> are powered down 
 
How frequently are they not in their heroic identities, how difficult is it 
for them to switch, and how much of a disadvantage is it for them not to be 
in their heroic identities? 
 
PB> 2)      I want to create a character whose body learns to resist attacks 
PB> that are subsequent.  The first time his opponent hits him with a 
PB> specific type of attack he takes damage normally.  With each subsequent 
PB> attack he gains a level of damage reduction for the attack.ie. 
 
Sounds like you have it.  The limtations are worth no more than a -1/4; it 
really is not that limiting. 
 
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Charset: noconv 
 
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NPWD4KBLcTGtvDHOz6Wf97WcWnD0ZtxbJIUnhrZ39w3WrtIAqMPjzIvvMkHhUmBs 
OfdpoAjchXI2zexOiwSfoT+llyy2H4o5prE1LrXw8j4anA/oHTATBk+inW/FeTA0 
aVpbD2EzIlk= 
=8nEA 
-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 
 
--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover 
                                    \ head. 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: R Jacobs <rjacobs@radiks.net> 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:55:58 -0500 
Subject: Re: TOTALLY MASSIVE List of Hero and Villain Names 
Newsgroups: october.hero 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october.com!not-for-mail 
Lines: 17 
X-Sender: rjacobs@dial110.radiks.net 
X-Reply-To: rjacobs@radiks.net 
Nntp-Posting-Host: dial110.radiks.net 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
Hey gang, 
 
	If anyone is interested: 
 
	The TOTALLY MASSIVE List of Hero and Villain Names 
 
	is available on the web at 
 
	http://users.intercomm.com/redwolf/scm/articles/names.html 
 
	(edited by yours truly, with submissions from all of you and coded by 
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre) 
 
Keep sending me those names!!! 
 
Rob 
rjacobs@radiks.net 
 
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com> 
Subject: RE: Couple of question 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:58:31 -0400 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
> PB> 2)      I want to create a character whose body learns to resist 
> attacks 
> PB> that are subsequent.  The first time his opponent hits him with a 
> PB> specific type of attack he takes damage normally.  With each 
> subsequent 
> PB> attack he gains a level of damage reduction for the attack.ie. 
>  
SSR> Sounds like you have it.  The limtations are worth no more than a 
-1/4; it 
SSR> really is not that limiting. 
 
I disagree. I think they should at least equal the extra time lims.  
 
Assuming an attack every phase, and speeds of 4, the character's 25% 
reduction won't take effect until the next phase, which is a -1/2. His 
75% reduction won't take effect until next turn, a -1. Which means that 
the 50% must fall somewhere in the middle, for a -3/4. 
 
Dave Mattingly 
http://www.geocities.com/soho/5953 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: Opal@october.com (Opal) 
Date: 13 Jun 97 18:15:00 GMT 
Subject: Nonstandard  settings = 
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october!opal 
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *  
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
 h > > I ran, set in the bizarre 'Dark Wheel Galaxy' - it included super-  
 h > > science, mutants, aliens, FTL travel, extradimensional beings,  
 h > psionics,  
 h > > and even several types of magic.  The Hero System handled all of  
 h > that  
 h > > with no problem.  
 h > > ___  
 h > Actually, I'd meant to post to ask people what unusual  
 h > settings they'd used Hero for other then the 'dark champions'  
 h > or '4 color superhero' genres.  
 h >  
 h > Can you tell us more about this ?  
 h >  
 h > Curt Hicks  
  
Hmmm.... Describe the Dark Wheele in an email....  
  
In '86 I asked my players if they'd like to try a 'science fantasy' game.  
Thinking back, it's hard to remember which aspects came first...  
  
The Dark Wheele was populated by human colonists whose jump ship went  
off course through time as well as space.  They apeared in an isolated  
galaxy that was shrouded in thick nebulae (thus the name).  The ship  
apeared in a region of space where 7 stars were visible (a sort of  
buble in the nebulae, called a 'starcave').  The ship was reconfigured  
into multiple vehicles (yes it was designed this way) and the various  
factions among the colonists set off.  The non-colonist crew of the ship  
attempted to make a return journey but succeded only in jumping forward  
in time.  They were forced to settle on the planet nearest them (Stellos).  
  
Over the millinia, the colonists formed many strange, mostly isolated  
societies (they were political and philosophical extremists, that's  
why they were on an intergalactic colony ship, to escape the conformity  
of human space).  After serious underpopulation problems, the decendents  
of the crew, managed to build a society on Stellos, ultimately, they  
set out into space and began conquering the various collony worlds.  
The 1st 7 systems were called (big surprise) the Seven Stars (Stellos,  
Sternen, Kusei, Estrella, Aster, Zveazda, Sideria).  
  Ultimately, the Galaxy is conquered.  Just as inevitably there is  
eventually a revolt - the revolt includes many anti-technological  
factions, one faction, the Sword Masters emerge as a leading force.  
The Galactic Empire is overthrown, and the Seven Stars become fuedal  
states ruled by the Sword Masters (eventually, that was about 1000 years).  
Science & Technology can still be persued, but, officially only by  
individuals.  Centuries pass.  
  A technologist, Aquillar Darrius, (after making himself imortal),  
brings technology to it's ultitmate peak: a divice called the Actuator  
(I later found out this is an actual engineering term - for a robotic  
manipulator or something - 'Actualizer' might be better), a sort of  
wish machine, powered by a black hole in a parallel universe.  He  
conquers the Galaxy (some of the tricks he pulled: teleporting a  
battle fleet across the galaxy, putting out a star, transfroming an  
opposing warp fleet into precious metals and jewels).  Darrius made  
one mistake, though - his 'Actuator' had tapped a finite univers, he  
litterally used it up.  Before he could build a new device, Darrius  
was killed by a Swordmaster (Victor Regis I), subsequent King of  
Stellos.  
  The backlash against technology is even more pronounced this time.  
In the Dark Wheele it is taboo (not just illegal) to buy or sell any  
crafted item (in some places art is OK, in others 'necessities' can  
be traded), Computers are taboo, as are organizations like Corporations.  
Starships and buildings, however are considered real property, and  
can be traded, so there is still a small interstellar culture  
(individuals very rarely manage to build spacecraft), but most worlds  
are isolated.  
  
Some of the 'color' in the Dark Wheele:  
  
Masters of Life (and Masters of Death) - the ability to build a  
weapon capable of killing makes one a 'master of death.'  Masters  
of Death are often villains in the game, they are not well liked  
or trusted.  Characters who know how to build killing weapons, and  
know how to heal, and have a proper  ethical framework (belong  
to certain groups) are among the respected 'Masters of Life.'  
Masters of Life include:  The Pure Heart Poisoners (poisons, medicines)  
Waynesmen (fire arms, surgery), Sword Masters (indestructable swords,  
mystic healing), and Flame Bearers (energy weapons, laser surgery).  
Masters of Death include:  Blade Brothers (knives), Black Poisoners 
 
(guess), Bombers (guess), Red Death (death rays), and others.  
  
Other groups:  Most Hierarchical groups are taboo in the Dark Wheele,  
but there are sort of Fraternal orders and guilds.  The Masters of  
Life are the most powerful.  Others include:  The Fighter's Guild  
(trained fighters who use normal-damage weapons), The Lawwiors guild  
(ritual fighters who perform trial by combat for thier clients),  
The Merchants' Trust (for what little trade can be had), the Pysician's  
Guild (a para-military organization headed by the Surgeon General -  
lowest rank: Private Practitioner), Thieves' Trust and so forth.  
  
As you may have noticed, the Dark Wheele got very tongue-in-cheek.  
In addition to the above, there was also a lot of transplanting  
from various settings - one of the players like Anime, so the  
KIRA were a major villain (I don't even remember which show they  
were from...), there were 'Xenomorphs' lurking in the Star Shallows  
(rimward areas), spacefaring Kelts, the Krell thought machine f/  
Forbidden Planet, and lots of other stuff.  As I told my players:  
"The first law of the Dark Wheele is Steal Shamelessly."  
  
Probably the most fun I had with the background was comming up  
with 'ancient Terran legends.'  The Waynesmen, for instance, based  
thier order on an ancient hero of pre-space Earth, and strove  
to recreate the magical weapons used at that time - like the  
Six Shooter that could slay six foes at a time, or the Scatter Gun  
(a disintegration weapon - it scatters your atoms).  And the PCs  
eventually met a Waynesman who succeeded in making one of those  
(the Scatter Gun, I think).  
  
In retrospect I think I came up with a lot of that as a sort of  
backlash against Cyberpunk - the genre was becoming popular back  
then, and I *really* didn't like it, so of course I came up with  
a setting where 'Hackers' are people who will cut your head off  
if they find out you built a computer, and corporations have a  
reputation comprable to Nazis, while individuals are the only ones  
allowed to develop advanced technologies.  
  
___  
 * OFFLINE 1.58  
 
Subject: Re: Couple of question 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 97 14:36:12 -0400 
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net 
From: "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On 6/13/97 11:44 AM, Patrick Barden (absga@elbertonga.com) Said: 
 
>1)      Only in hero ID is a 1/4 limitation.  How much of a limitation would 
>you give to a power that works "Only Out of Hero ID"  I have two characters 
>that I want to have regeneration that only works when they are powered down 
> 
Depending on the type of character, anywhere from a -1/4 to a -1.  
"Detective" style characters ala Batman or Daredevil, that are still very  
effective when not in Hero ID would be a -1/4. Someone who has few or no  
abilities bought without the Only in Hero ID disad would get more.  
 
>2)      I want to create a character whose body learns to resist attacks 
>that are subsequent.  The first time his opponent hits him with a specific 
>type of attack he takes damage normally.  With each subsequent attack he 
>gains a level of damage  reduction for the attack.ie.  
 
Offhand I'd say this is fairly limiting, if his other defenses are still  
low, so I would probably give it a -1 to -1/2 (but his defenses would  
need to be low, or it would not be very limiting, and thus get a -0) 
 
  .oooO        | 
  (   ) Oooo.  | David A. Fair 
   \ (  (   )  | SDS International 
    \_)  ) /   | dfair@sdslink.com 
        (_/    | 
 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:44:06 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Dr. Tachyon 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
[Due to the scope of this character, I'm using my typical presentation 
format, instead of trying to cram everything into a few paragrahs like I 
did with the rest of the Wild Cards adaptions.] 
 
DOCTOR TACHYON 
(Prince Tisianne brant Ts'ara sek Halima sek Ragnar sek Omian 
of House Ilkazam) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Dr. Tachyon is one of the central characters from the Wild Cards shared 
world series.  He is an alien, a native of the planet Takis, who came to 
earth in 1946 in a vain attempt to prevent the release of an experimental 
virus (aka the "wild card virus") into Earth's atmosphere by other members 
of his family.  He failed in the attempt, and ended up stranded on Earth, 
his fellow Takisians all dead and his own ship (aka Baby) captured by the 
US Government.  Tachyon then spent the next few years trying to help wild 
card victims in the New York area before being brought before HUAC (House 
Un-American Activities Committee) in 1950.  He was then deported as an 
undesirable alien.   
 
Tachyon spent the next 10 years in an alcoholic haze, wandering about 
Europe.  He was recruited by the KBG, who gave him food, and a bed (and 
most importantly, drink) in exchange for information.  After John F 
Kennedy won the 1960 election, however, Tachyon was allowed to return to 
the US.  He came to New York's Jokertown, and lived in the gutter, 
drowning his guilt in sorrow in yet *more* booze.  Finally, in 1963 the 
Turtle managed to bring him around, restoring his confidence and helping 
him pull his life together. 
 
Vowing to cure the effects of the wild card virus, Tachyon founded the 
Blythe van Renssaeler Memorial Clinic in 1966.  Here, he provided medical 
care for jokers and aces of all types, as well as spending time trying to 
devise a cure for the wild card virus.  His life remained relatively 
stable until 1986 when he discovered his grandson, Blaise Jeannot 
Andrieux, who was living in Paris aiding a terrorist cell with his 
powerful mind control powers.  Tachyon brought the 11 year old back to New 
York, setting himself up as the boy's legal guardian. 
 
The version of Tachyon presented is from right about this time.  He will 
contract the wildcard virus from Typhoid Croyd in late 1987, and loose his 
right hand to Mackie Messer in 1988 at the Democratic national convention. 
Eventually, he will have Blaise, who has never been a stable individual, 
turn on him.  The end result of this falling out will have Tachyon's mind 
placed in the body of a young, 16 year old girl, while the girl's mind is 
placed in his body.  Blaise will then get the new, female,  Tachyon 
pregnant before abandoning him on Earth by stealing Tachyon's personal 
spaceship.  Tachyon then pursues Blaise to Takis, where Blaise manages to 
start a world war before being defeated by Tachyon, Tachyon's family, 
Captain Trips and Jay Ackroyd.  After all is said and done, Tachyon has a 
new daughter (Illyana); he is returned to his original body; Kelly (the 
girl he was switched with) stays on Takis; Jay Ackroyd gets a Takisian 
wife, and Starshine (one of Cpt Trips 'friends') dies.  For the full 
story, read Wild Cards Vol X "Double Solitaire". 
 
Description: 
Dr. Tachyon is a short, fine featured man with a long nose and a small 
pointed chin.  Tachyon's hair is a metallic-red shade and falls to his 
shoulders, his eyes are lilac.  He stands 5'3" and weighs all of 115 lbs. 
He is in good physical shape, and is quite strong for his size.  Tachyon 
dresses in fancy outfits using a lot of lace, silk and velvet.  The look 
is reminiscent of early eighteen hundreds formal wear. 
 
Powers Notes: 
Tachyon's powers are pretty straight forward.  He can read, control and 
search for minds, as well as render opponents asleep (his Ego Attack). 
His shields are very powerful, rendering him immune to almost every other 
telepath on Earth.  He is also rather adept at penetrating another's mind 
shields (his Find Weakness).  If faced with a life or death situation, all 
Takisian Psi Lords can erect a powerful mind shield called a "deathlock". 
Breaking this mental barrier (which can take a *very* long time, Tachyon 
took seven hours to do it at one point) is so traumatic that the 
individual will usually die. 
 
Aside from his Psi Lord abilities, Tachyon is reasonably adept at self 
defense.  He learned Takisian fencing, as well as Earth karate.  He often 
carries a .357 magnum revolver when expecting trouble.  
 
Disadvantages Notes: 
Tachyon's disads are pretty simple.  He's an alien, abet a very human 
looking one.  He dresses funny (a least, according to Earth standards), 
and tends to sprinkle his speech with Takisian oaths and curses.  Since 
he's a prince, he acts like one.  He can be arrogant and overconfident at 
times, and tends to carry himself as if he was still a Psi Lord.  On the 
other hand, he does truly care for his patients (although deep down most 
joker deformities disgust him) and has run his hospital for over 30 years. 
His primary weakness is women, alcohol and the deep sense of guilt he has 
over what the virus has done to so many innocent people. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		12		2 
Dex		20		30 
Con		15		10 
Body		12		4 
Int		28		18 
Ego		32		44 
Pre		20		10 
Com		14		2 
PD		5		3 
ED		3		0 
Spd		4		10 
Rec		6		2 
End		40		5 
Stun		26		0 
Char Total			140 
Power Total			484 
Total Cost			624 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
50	EC: Psi Lord Powers 
50	8d6 Ego Attack, 1/2 END, END 5 
55	14d6 Mind Control, 0 END 
50	12d6 Mind Scanning, +10 to Roll, 1/2 END, END 5 
55	14d6 Telepathy, 0 END 
 
19	Mental Defense: 25 DEF 
17	Mental Defense +25, Costs END, "deathlock", END 2 
20	Find Weakness with Psi EC, 13-, Costs END, END 3 
 
	MA: Fencing, usable with swords 
5	Ballestra  +2 OCV  -2 DCV  Weapon +2DC, 1/2 move required 
4	Fleche  +2 OCV  -2 DCV  Weapon +v/5, Full move 
5	Lunge  +1 OCV  -2 DCV  Weapon +2 DC Strike 
4	Parry  +2 OCV  +2 DCV  Block, Abort 
4	Prise de Fer  +1 OCV  +0 DCV 33 STR Bind 
5	Thrust  +1 OCV  +3 DCV  Weapon Strike 
 
	MA:JKarate 
4	Block  +2 OCV  +2 DCV  Block, Abort 
4	Disarm  -1 OCV  +1 DCV  22 STR Disarm 
4	Dodge  +0 OCV  +5 DCV  Dodge vs All, Abort 
3	Legsweep  +2 OCV  -1 DCV  3d6 Strike; Target falls 
4	Punch/Snap Kick  +0 OCV  +2 DCV  4d6 Strike 
5	Side/Spin Kick  -2 OCV  +1 DCV  6d6 Strike 
 
11	1 1/2d6 RKA, +1 OCV, 6 Shots, OAF: .S&W Mdl 19 .357 Mag 
 
3	LS:JVirtually immune to aging 
5	Wealth 
2	Perk:JWell respected doctor 
 
3	Astrogration (Navigation) 15- 
5	Combat Pilot (small starships) 14- 
3	Computer Programming 15- 
7	High Society 15- 
3	KS:JDancing 15- 
1	KS:JFencing 8- 
3	KS:JFlower Arranging 15- 
3	KS:JZero G Operations (DEX) 13- 
3	PS:JPhysician (INT) 15- 
6	PS:JPlay Violin 15- 
3	PS:JSurgeon (INT) 15- 
2	SC:JBiochemistry 15- 
2	SC:JChemistry 15- 
2	SC:JGenetics 15- 
2	SC:JMathematics 13- 
2	SC:JPsychology 14- 
3	WF:JBlades, Pistols 
11	Lang: English (4), French (4), German (4), Russian (2), Spanish 
(2),  
	Takasian (native) 
3	Linguist 
3	Scientist 
16	CSL: +2 with Combat 
10	CSL: +2 with Psi Lord EC 
 
Disadvantages 
100	Base 
10	DF: Alien features and mannerisms, flamboyant manner of dress 
10	DNPC: Blaise Jeannot Andrieux (less pow) 11- 
15	Psych: Impulsive and overconfident 
15	Psych: Lecherousness, inordinately fond of women 
20	Psych: Feels a sense of responsibility to wild card victims 
10	Public ID: Easily recognizable, known in most parts of the world 
15	SID: Tachyon was once an KGB agent 
15	Rep: Dr. Tachyon (actual rep varies, see history) 14- 
20	Suscept: 4d6 Body if "Deathlock" is broken (uncom/inst) 
20	Suscept: 4d6 Stun if "Deathlock" is broken (uncom/inst) 
374	Experience 
 
(Dr. Tachyon created by Melinda Snodgrass, character sheet created by 
Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:21:38 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net, 
        Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&> 
        greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu, 
        Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com, 
        robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca, 
        Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Chrysalis 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
CHRYSALIS 
(Debra Jo Jory) 
 
Designers Notes: 
Chysalis is the current owner/operator of the Cyrstal Palace, one of 
Jokertowns most well know nightclubs.  Chrysalis is 5'5" tall and weighs 
115 lbs.  She has blue eyes, almost toally transparent skin and muscle 
tissue and no hair.  She usually wears minimal amounts of clothing to 
emphasise this fact.  Chrysalis' primary occupation is the brokering of 
information.  She seems to know 8everything* tht happens in New York, and 
will buy and sell anything anyone wants to know... for a price.  She is 
one of the major players in Jokertown, although most of her work is done 
behind the scenes.  Chrysalis was killed at the end of Wild Cards Book VI. 
 
The Character: 
 
STAT		VAL		COST 
Str		8		-2 
Dex		13		9 
Con		10		0 
Body		11		2 
Int		20		10 
Ego		18		16 
Pre		15		5 
Com		14		2 
PD		2		0 
ED		2		0 
Spd		2		0 
Rec		4		0 
End		20		0 
Stun		20		0 
Char Total			42 
Power Total			72 
Total Cost			114 
 
COST	POWERS & SKILLS 
10	Perk: Wealth 
5	Detect: Lies 13- 
 
4	AK: New York City 14- 
4	AK: Jokertown 14- 
7	High Society 14- 
3	Interrogation 12- 
4	KS: English History 14- 
4	KS: The Rumor Mill 14- 
4	KS: Who's Doing What to Whom 14- 
4	PS: Accounting (INT) 14- 
2	PS: Manager/Owner of the Crystal Palace 11- 
15	Streetwise 18- 
5	Trading 14- 
1	Lang: English (native), French 
 
Disadvantages 
50	Base 
20	DF: Woman with transparent skin and flesh, no hair 
15	Psych: Overconfident 
15	Psych: Honest in all her dealings, her word is her bond 
15	SID: Her entire past (she's very secretive) 
 
(Chysalis created by John J Miller, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
Subject: Re: Couple of question 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 97 15:14:32 -0500 
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net> 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
Patrick Barden 
 
>Need some feedback on a few powers. 
> 
>1)      Only in hero ID is a 1/4 limitation.  How much of a limitation would 
>you give to a power that works "Only Out of Hero ID"  I have two characters 
>that I want to have regeneration that only works when they are powered down 
 
I've usually seen and done this as a -1/4 Limitation as well. 
 
>2)      I want to create a character whose body learns to resist attacks 
>that are subsequent.  The first time his opponent hits him with a specific 
>type of attack he takes damage normally.  With each subsequent attack he 
>gains a level of damage  reduction for the attack.ie.  
>1st time nornal defenses 
>2nd time 25% damage reduction 
>3rd time 50% damage reduction 
>4th time and up 75% damage reduction 
>This would only last for the current combat and would reset anytime the 
>character leaves combat and powers down. 
>My question is how would you handle pricing the limitations on this. 
 
Depends on how many hits the characters tend to take in a combat.  If  
it's, for 
example 6 then he's at full 75% reduction half the time and somewhat less  
the rest. 
I'd call that a -3/4 Limitation or if your real strict a -1/2.  If hits  
happen more frequently then lower the Limitation but I'd never drop it  
below 1/4.  Also, if  
hits tend to be BIG, aka the first shot can often put him down, I'd raise  
the  
limitation another 1/4 to 1/2.  So, if fights are lasting about 6 hits  
but the first 
hit tends to do nearly the character's STUN in BODY, call it a -1 1/4 or  
-1. 
 
I know this is kinda subjective, but it seems fair. 
 
PAX.  
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
| Name: John P. Weatherman    | Phone:                             |       
   
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net |    (H) (910) 785-1130              | 
| fax:   (910) 748-4632       |    (O) (910) 545-2722              | 
|_____________________________|____________________________________| 
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives | 
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose   | 
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could  | 
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: | 
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust.       | 
|                              Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384)      | 
|__________________________________________________________________| 
 
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com> 
Subject: RE: CHAR: Chrysalis 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:18:58 -0400 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
You gave her a positive COM? I'm very surprised. A high PRE, definitely, 
but a high COM? For a woan who looks like a walking wound? 
 
Should she also have bribery? 
 
Dave Mattingly 
 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:32:53 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@omg.org 
Subject: RE: CHAR: Chrysalis 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Dave Mattingly wrote: 
 
> You gave her a positive COM? I'm very surprised. A high PRE, definitely, 
> but a high COM? For a woan who looks like a walking wound? 
 
Yeah.  In the books men are either repulsed or fascinated by her.  If she 
was solid, she'd probably have a COM of 14 to 16.  I decided that a 10 COM 
and the 20 point DF summed that up prety well. 
 
> Should she also have bribery? 
 
The GURPS version (written by her creator) didn't, but now that you 
mention it, yeah.  She should alsohave a *mess* of contacts. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Couple of question 
X-No-Archive: yes 
X-Attribution: Rat 
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade 
Date: 13 Jun 1997 16:36:50 -0400 
Lines: 31 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
>>>>> "DM" == Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com> writes: 
 
SSR> Sounds like you have it.  The limtations are worth no more than a 
SSR> -1/4; it really is not that limiting. 
 
DM> I disagree. I think they should at least equal the extra time lims.  
 
I am operating under the (potentially incorrect) assumption that there is a 
carry over between fights.  If there is no carry over of defenses -- that 
is, each encounter requires that the character start from scratch with no 
Damage Reduction (pretty much like how Find Weakness works) -- then the 
limitation is worth a little more.  But it should not be much more because 
the restrictions of the limitation go away quite quickly regardless. 
 
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Version: 2.6.3 
Charset: noconv 
 
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--  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete. 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \  
                                    \  
 
From: "Gordon W. Rycroft" <gwr1@ukc.ac.uk> 
Subject: Re: Champions: New Millenium 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:12:59 -0400 (EDT) 
Priority: NORMAL 
X-Authentication: none 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
X-Status:  
X-UID: 36 
 
On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:27:04 +0000 Shawn Lockard <slockard@ncs.pvt.k12.va.us>  
wrote: 
 
>> Personally, I saw a few nice ideas, but nothing to make me dump all my old 
>> 4th edition books and switch over. 
>Reasonable enough. Will you buy the new source material and convert  
>it to Champions 4th ed? Or do most people on the list develop their  
>own settings? 
 
Don't know about most people, but I use the fourth ed.  background with my own  
modifications, mostly based on whats happened in my previous campaigns... I would  
buy new source material IF the background was compatable with the  C4 background... 
 
Unfortunately, it's not. At least, not without some work...  
 
Gordon 
 
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org 
From: R Jacobs <rjacobs@radiks.net> 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:21:11 -0500 
Subject: Subscribe 
Newsgroups: october.hero 
X-Listname: Hero 
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero) 
Path: october.com!not-for-mail 
Lines: 1 
X-Sender: rjacobs@dial4.radiks.net 
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Nntp-Posting-Host: dial4.radiks.net 
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
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To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
 
rjacobs@radiks.net subscribe 
 
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> 
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:52:04 -0500 (CDT) 
Subject: Nonstandard  settings = Dark Wheel Galaxy 
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org 
X-Hero: champ-l 
To: champ-l@omg.org 
 
 
Opal (Opal@october.com) writes: 
 
> Path: october!opal 
>   
> I've never used a published game setting for a Champions game.  I've  
> used Hero to run Super-Hero champaigns, Fantasy, and Science Fiction  
> games.  Probably the oddest of these was a Science-Fantasy campaign  
> I ran, set in the bizarre 'Dark Wheel Galaxy' - it included super-  
> science, mutants, aliens, FTL travel, extradimensional beings, psionics,  
> and even several types of magic.  The Hero System handled all of that  
> with no problem.  
> ___  
Actually, I'd meant to post to ask people what unusual  
settings they'd used Hero for other then the 'dark champions'  
or '4 color superhero' genres.   
 
Can you tell us more about this ? 
 
Curt Hicks 


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