Week Ending June 28, 1997
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Jun 97 02:59:00 GMT
Subject: The Harlequin Challenge
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h >
h > My solution, was to build Harlequin as the "main character" with a
h > Multiform. The Multiform was Comedian, and he had the power of
h > Duplication with the limitation, 1 Body, Always On. The balance of
h > points between the three forms was absolute hell. Thespian was built
h > a certain amount of points, Comedian the same amount, plus duplication
h > (strong enough to create the Thespian Body) and the Harliquin had to
h > have Multiform powerful enough for the Comedian's total points.
h > (Whew!!!!)
h >
h > Does anyone out there have a simpler way of creating one individual,
h > that splits into two unique beings, less powerful than the first?
Usually when you have a duplicating character like this - with two
duplicates that are less powerful than the combined character,
you build the full power character with some of his powers bought
'not when duplicated' (-1/2?) and duplication.
If the two weaker characters are substantially different from the
combined form (or you just don't want one of the duplicates
staggering under the wieght of more disadvantages) you could buy
The 'combined' form as the 'primary' character, who would take
Duplication to produce one of the lesser characters, and a (probably
linked) Multiform to change into the other. This way, the two
Duplicates can be built on equal total points and Disadvantages,
and only the primary form need bear the cost of the Duplication
and Multiform.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:33:43 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Babylon 5 probabilities
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At 06:31 PM 6/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
(blah)
> TBP has found a way to use only two regular six-sided dice and generate
>many bell-curve distributions. This game assigns a Difficulty rating to
>tasks a character might have to perform. Difficulty labels are rather
>arbitrary, such as Basic, Average, Tricky, or Difficult, and each is assigned
>a target number. The player must add the values of a character's appropriate
>Attribute, a relevant Skill, a +2 bonus for a Specialty, and a Random
>Modifier.
(blah)
they didn't find anything. Daeldalus used the same system in it's Nexus game-
incidentally the only other good multigenre i've found.
All in all, this is what i object to. No one on the list persisted with the
"50%-50%" thingie fer long. A few people just said the game sucked.
Please, can we stay away from purposless stuff like this? Nobody cares about the
brilliant nuances of non-linear probability!! It all just makes it harder
for the GM to improvise with numbers. Yes, i say this afteer reading the whole thing, so please don't repost it.
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:37:15 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Super Kids
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At 03:44 PM 6/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> > Simon Says - mind control with the limitation that he must do whatever
>> > he commands other people to do. (and say "Simon says" of course!)
>>
>> Hopefully, he gives up his evil(?) ways before he reaches high
>> school. Can you imagine a teenage boy with this power? "Go to the
>> Clairmont Hotel, enter room 210, and have a wild night of sex with
>> the first person you see in the room." Could get ugly.
>>
>> Filksinger
>>
>
>Yeah, especially when the girl reports him for rape, and police telepaths
>confirm what happened. Or when Simon finds out that "Rebecca Wayne"'s
>dad Bruce ain't exactly even-tempered.
>
>-Eric
>
>
i still like my slimebeast idea better. . . .
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:41:45 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
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>> but that's not roleplaying!! that's character conception and skills!! who
>> was roleplaying a dancer better? personality wise??
>
> That was debateable, but no matter what one character did, they allways
>lost when they crossed over to the other's speciality. The dancer and the
>singer were just one example. If the characters were playing the their characters the GM wanted them to, they could do no wrong. It didn't matter
>what they had down on their character sheet. It was even worse with games
>other than Champions, (like anything by RTG). Where one particular player's
>characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The
>characters weren't faking it either. They were panicing because the player
>thought it was cuite, and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+
>PRE would also do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with
>all sorts of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for
>because it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
>
>
uh-huh? and this is bad why? roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be
commended! for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
and as for supes. . . .
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Jun 97 05:16:00 GMT
Subject: ego power
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h > From: darkage@juno.com (Daemon Devillore)
h > To: champ-l@omg.org
h >
h > I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
h > multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
h > on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
h >
h > Thanx
You're probably starting with the wrong power (Ego Attack). Instead,
buy an NND or AVLD Energy Blast, with the AE:Line Advantage. That's
a +2 advantage for the NND - 4d6 for 60 Apts. If you must, you could
take an EB with Based on Ego Combat Value instead. Same cost as the
NND, but will require a ECV roll against each victim, and goes against
EGO defense. Both are visible and take range mods, unlike an AE Ego
Attack, but the cost is more reasonable. Also, are you picturing a
line coming from the character or an AE that he puts out at a distance?
If the former, you can bring the cost down further with a 'no range'
limitation.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58 * I am not a Rules Lawyer...I'm a Rules Activist.
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:50:50 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: ego power
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Daemon Devillore wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
> multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
> on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
Hmmm...
4d6 Energy Blast, +1 Based on ECV, +1 Area Effect Line (or radius, or
cone...)
60 active points and a downright nasty power.
Of course, if you want to get even UGLIER:
3d6 Energy Blast, +1 Based on ECV, +1-1/2 Autofire vs Special Defenses,
+1/2 half end.
60 active points and usually doing 9-12 dice of NND damage to most
people (assuming the egoist has a decent ECV and mental defense is
fairly uncommon in the campaign)
Good luck on getting a GM to approve the last one though ;) (or still
having it after the first or second time you use it)
Todd
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:51:54 PST
Subject: ego power
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-7
From: darkage@juno.com (Daemon Devillore)
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I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
Thanx
From: mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net (Mike Lehmann)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 03:39:35 -0800
Organization: Terminal BBS (403)327-9731
Subject: PBEM
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-=> Quoting to Mike Lehmann <=-
> I have been considering running a PBEM game, but I have never done so
> before. Does anyone know where I can find good information on running
> such a game, rather than web pages about a particular game? I am
> particularly interested in ideas about how to handle Hero's already
> slow combat system when it might be a week before someone tells me
> their move. Any ideas?
I can offer what I use for my PBEM. Here's an explained Tactical Sheet, which is how my players inform me of their actions each phase or turn.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Champions Tactics Sheet Battle # ___
Player: _________________________ Character: ______________________
Scenario: ______________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stance:
Total Offense Active Offense Balance Active Defense Total Defense
- Only pick one, please. This will give me an idea of what types of
actions you may take, as well as power levels you'll be using. Please
do not take "Total Offense", then ask to be defending as your
objective.
(IOW, how are your combat levels, if any, used, and what types of
attacks are you likely to use: Haymakers over nerve strikes, for
example).
Primary Objective:
- Engaging/avoiding a specific opponent
- For example, blasting the big tank, or dousing the flaming guy.
- Taking/avoiding a specific action
- Hitting that switch with my Batarang (tm) or avoiding being
pushed into the spinning blades of evisceration...
- Ensuring/preventing a specific event
- Making sure the President gives his speech, or preventing Dr. Mad
Scientist from pulling the death ray "ON" lever...
- Using/opposing a specific skill
- Setting up a security program for the base or disarming a bomb
laid by Doctor Demolition...
- Only 1 of the above for Primary Objective
Secondary Objective:
- Same rules as Primary
General Objectives:
- Can be up to 3 other actions of minor importance.
- Like deal with flying dudes, or cover my buddies... general
actions (which could be as detailed as you want 'em to be).
These priorities will give me an idea of what you'd plan on doing during
the fight. You can be as detailed as you like, but there is a 5-action
limit for most (1 primary, 1 secondary, 3 general)...
Observing:
- You can observe many things, but your perception of each is reduced.
1-2 things of key importance should be sufficient.
- Watching out for "unseen" foes may cause some firing at shadowy
figures.
Of course, if you're watching the shadows and someone springs out of
them, you'll have a good shot at them...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
It can get a little confusing using it the first few times, but once you
get the hang of using it, it gives a lot of flexibility to the player
and (especially) the GM, who usually writes up the results of combat
actions...
mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net - - - - - Justice Krewe / Enigma Watch GM
- - - - - - http://www.dfw.net/~aronhead/justice_krewe.html - - - - - -
... "Auto Repair Service. Try us once, you'll never go anywhere again."
~~~ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:49:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: GURPS to Hero (long)
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CONVERTING GURPS SUPERS TO HERO
The following is a rough outline of how to convert your typical GURPS
Supers character into Hero System character sheet. Note that this is
really a 'quick-and-dirty' guide to systems conversion, I am not all that
familiar with GURPS mechanics to try anything more complex than the
basics. This is also not an attempt to breakdown GURPS posers into their
HERO equivalents. I highly recommend that anyone trying to convert from
GURPS have (at least ) GURPS Supers available.
PART I: Characteristics
For converting from GURPS to Hero using the following chart (adapted from
Fantasy Hero 2nd Edition).
STR see below
DEX (DX x 2) -10
CON (HT x 2) -10
BODY HT and see below
INT (IQ x 2) -10
EGO see below
PRE 10 + (Charisma x 2.5) and see below
COM see below
PD Figured x 2 (note: this may result in very odd numbers)
ED Figured x 2 (ditto)
SPD Figured(Round Up) and see below
REC Figured
END Figured
STUN Figured
Note: the (CHAR x 2) -10 system works well enough for most translations.
When adapting low-level characters (ie. normals) this will result in Hero
Characteristics from 10 to 30. This may be a bit extreme for some GMs.
It tends to work out fine for Super Hero characters.
STR: this stat is a mess as far as translations go. GURPS STR is linear
(20 STR is 2x as strong as a 10 STR, 40 is as twice as strong as 20 etc.),
while Hero is exponential (each 5 points of STR is doubles your lifting
capacity). After some rough figuring based upon stated values in source
material and the GURPS maximum lifting rules I offer the following system:
GURPS HERO
15 13
16 14
17 15
18 16
19 17
20 18
21 19
22 20
26 23
30 25
33 28
35 30
45 33
55 35
65 38
75 40
90 43
110 45
130 48
150 50
180 53
210 55
250 58
290 60
350 63
410 65
BODY: some characters have the power of "Extra Hit Points". Add these to
the HT score to find the characters final BODY total.
EGO: There are several ways to handle this. One is to use (IQ x 2) -10,
which means that any smart character is going to have a high Ego as well.
Another is to use ((IQ + Strong Will) x2) -10. The third is to use IQ +
(Strong Will x 2) to determine EGO. The final is to use 10 + (Strong Will
x 2). The best method seems to be the third way.
PRE: Another way is to give the character +3 PRE for ever level of
Charisma they have.
COM: A rough correlation is as follows:
GURPS HERO
Hideous 0-2
Ugly 4-6
Unattractive 8
Attractive 12-14
Handsome/Beautiful 16-18
Very Handsome/Beautiful 20-22+
SPD: This is very tough. The move score given for characters only
reflects their actual movement. The character's Speed stat helps to
determine over all quickness. a very high GURPS Speed should mean a very
good Hero SPD. In many cases refer to the character description.
MOVE: use the GURPS movement score straight over as the Hero Running.
Some characters may have Flight, and some will have different Flight
numbers (such as a base flight and a "super" flight. In many cases the
Flight listed is a top speed. Usually these numbers can help determine
the characters actual SPD as well.
PART II: GURPS Advantages
A lot of this are similar to Hero Talents. Others are simulated by a
characteristic boost. See the chart below. Note: any GURPS Advantage not
listed is something that doesn't translate to Hero easily.
GURPS HERO
Absolute Direction Bump of Direction
Absolute Timing Absolute Time Sense
Acute Hearing PER bonus to hearing
Acute Taste and Smell PER bonus to taste/smell
Acute Vision PER bonus to sight
Alertness PER bonus
Ambidexterity Ambidexterity
Attractiveness see COM
Charisma see PRE
Clerical Investment Perk: Priest
Combat Reflexes Increase DEX or CSL with HTH
Danger Sense Danger Sense
Double-Jointed Double Jointed
Eidetic Memory Eidetic Memory
High Pain Threshold Add to PD or ED, 1/4 Damage Resistance,
Physical, Stun Only (-1/2)
Immunity to Disease Life Support: Immunity to Disease
Language Talent Linguist
Legal Enforcement Powers Perk: Legal Enforcement Powers (var)
Lightning Calculator Lightning Calculator
Luck: 15 Points 1d6 Luck
Luck: 30 Points 3d6 Luck
Military Rank Perk: Rank (var)
Night Vision UV Vision (except *total* darkness)
Strong Will see EGO
Toughness Add to PD or ED, Damage Resistance or Armor
Wealth see below
GURPS HERO
Dead Broke Destitute
Poor Poor
Struggling Middle Class
Average Middle Class
Comfortable Middle Class
Wealthy Well Off
Very Wealthy Wealthy
Filthy Rich Filthy Rich
Allies Follower
Patron Contact
PART III: Disadvantages
These are pretty simple. Most of them translate right over to Hero disads
pretty easy. I'd recommend getting a hold of a GURPS rule book to
determine exactly what some of the disads mean, but... A rough breakdown
of GURPS Disadvantages would be as follows:
GURPS HERO
SOCIAL see below
Odious Personal Habit Usually a DF, or a Psych Lim
Poverty see Wealth
Primitive Phys Lim: Doesn't understand/unfamiliar with 'x'
Reputation Reputation
Social Stigma Usually a DF, or a Rep.
PHYSICAL usually a Phys Lim. Note that some GURPS Physical
Limitations may or may not be consider "valid"
limitations by Hero GMs.
MENTAL usually a Psych Lim. See notes below.
Addiction Possible Psych and Phys Lim
Berserk Berserk/Enraged
Dyslexia Phys Lim
Illiterate Phys Lim
Split Personality Phys Lim, as well as possible Accidental Change
Unluckiness 1d6 Unluck
Weak Will Lower the character's EGO
DEPENDENTS DNPC
DUTIES usually a Watched
ENEMIES Hunted
QUIRKS May be a DF or a minor Psych Lim. Some GMs allow
1 point Quirks for Hero as well (I do)
PART IV: Super Advantages, Powers and Super Skills
Get a copy of GURPS Supers and read the power description. There are far
to many powers and skills and so one to even try and define them all in
Hero terms. Such a project is feasible, but far beyond the intended scope
of this posting. Needless to say, most if not all questions such as power
level, damage amounts and such will often be determined by the GM's
preferences as well as information gained via translation. For example,
the author of this post tended to keep to a standard 60 Active Points for
powers when adapting the Wild Cards characters. The numbers tended to
work out alright and provide a nice consistent base for others to modify
from.
PART V: Super Disadvantages:
GURPS HERO
Dependency Dependence (or, possibly a Phys Lim)
Uncontrolled Change Accidental Change
Vulnerability Vulnerability
Weakness Susceptablity
PART VI: Skills
Skills tend to be pretty straight forward. Most skills have Hero
counterparts. Note that GURPS skills often have numbers that far exceed
the typical 3-18 range that Hero uses. A rough listing of easy to
translate skills is as follows:
GURPS HERO
Acrobatics Acrobatics, Breakfall
Acting Acting. Mimicry
Administration Bureaucratics
Animal Handler Animal Handling
Armory Weaponsmith
Bard Oratory
Climbing Climbing
Criminology Deduction
Demolitions Demolitions
Diplomacy Conversation
Disguise Disguise
Escape Contortionist
Fast Talk Bribery, Persuasion
First Aid Paramedic
Hobby Skill Knowledge Skill
Hold Out Concealment
Intelligence Analysis Criminology
Forgery Forgery
Gambling Gambling
Interrogation Interrogation
Lip Reading Lipreading
Lockpicking Lockpicking
Mechanic Mechanics
Merchant Trading
Navigation Navigation
Pick Pockets Sleight of Hand
Professional Skill Professional Skill
Riding Riding
Savoir-Faire High Society
Science Skills Science Skills
Sex Appeal Seduction
Shadowing Shadowing
Sleight of Hand Sleight of Hand
Strategy Tactics
Stealth Stealth
Streetwise Streetwise
Surgery Forensic Medicine
Swimming Swimming
Tactics Tactics
Traps Security Systems
Vehicle Skills Transport Familiarity
Ventriloquism Ventriloquism
Weapons Skills Weapon Familiarity
Martial Arts:
GURPS HERO
Brawling Dirty Infighting, or HTH CSL (either 3 point or 5
point levels
Fencing Fencing or Kenjutsu - any martial arts that relies
mainly upon use of a sword
Judo Akido, Judo, Wrestling - any martial arts that
concentrates upon throws and holds
Karate Karate, Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do - any martial arts
that concentrates upon punching and kicking
Note: some characters may have more than one martial skill. Moonchild
(from GURPS Wild Cards) had both Judo and Karate. The game description
mentioned her using Akido, but her nationality was Korean. I remembered
her using Tae Kwon Do maneuvers in one of the books and gave her those
packages. Other characters should get martial arts based upon origin and
character description.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:24:02 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
X-Sender: tbarrie@drollsden
Subject: Re: Related subject:
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On Sun, 22 Jun 1997, HAPPYELF!!! wrote:
> >Where one particular player's characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but
> >go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The characters weren't faking it
> >either. They were panicing because the player thought it was cuite,
> >and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+ PRE would also
> >do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with all sorts
> >of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for because
> >it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
> uh-huh? and this is bad why?
Because it's generally considered appropriate to role-play your character
the way he or she was defined. If you want to play a character who's
weak-willed and/or easily frightened, buy the stats to represent that. If
you want certain powers and skills, buy them.
> roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be commended!
Why? What makes it any better or worse than playing your character as if
he or she were better than their stats indicate?
> for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
I don't see how that relates at all.
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:42:13 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
X-Sender: tbarrie@drollsden
cc: champ-l@omg.org, catdrag@vnet.net, champion@cyberhighway.net,
deejay@cu-online.com, greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu,
mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu, sourdust@ix.netcom.com,
robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: CHAR: Hiram Worchester
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Fri, 20 Jun 1997 BeerCarboy@aol.com wrote:
> Also he needs a Detect: Gravity Waves: Targetting Sense because he can sense
> the play of gravity waves (when he contemplates killing Fortunato when the
> pimp reports the death of Hiram's friend at the hands of the Alchemist he
> does this).
Unless he's actually done something useful with this ability (preferrably
more than once), I'd say it's purely an SFX thing.
X-Sender: why@mars.superlink.net
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 13:55:03 -0400
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net>
Subject: Re: ego power
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At 12:51 AM 6/22/97 PST, Daemon Devillore wrote:
>I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
>multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
>on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
It looks to me like you have already described the power perfectly:
6d6 EGO Attack, AOE Line (+1), Visible (-1/4). 60 Active, 48 Real cost.
That's a devistating attack. It averages 21 points against everyone but
the enemy mentalist. You don't even need a great ECV, how hard is it to
hit the poor defenseless hex.
Joe
From: Robert Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu>
Reply-To: mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu
Subject: Re: Related subject:
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:27:58 (-0600)
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On Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:41:45 +1000,
HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> wrote about Re: Related subject::
> >> but that's not roleplaying!! that's character conception and skills!! who
> >> was roleplaying a dancer better? personality wise??
> >
> > That was debateable, but no matter what one character did, they allways
> >lost when they crossed over to the other's speciality. The dancer and the
> >singer were just one example. If the characters were playing the their characters the GM wanted them to, they could do no wrong. It didn't matter
> >what they had down on their character sheet. It was even worse with games
> >other than Champions, (like anything by RTG). Where one particular player's
> >characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The
> >characters weren't faking it either. They were panicing because the player
> >thought it was cuite, and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+
> >PRE would also do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with
> >all sorts of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for
> >because it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
> >
> >
>
> uh-huh? and this is bad why? roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be
> commended! for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
> and as for supes. . . .
Roleplyingbelow their stat level is to be commended? Where do you get this
idea? What is your idea of roleplaying, doing sutff that's cuite or funny?
Neither Sups of spiderman run around acting like bimbos, why then should
players playing characters with comprable mental stats be rewarding for
playing their charcters as if they were morons. If I have a character who is
defined as being cooler than the Fonze, whould I be comended for hacing the
character jump and go "Yipe!" everytime some punk gets in his face? Is that
roleplaying to you? If you reward players for playing characters stats lower
than they are, you would love my current group where I have told Charcters
what to do next and they still didn't have a clue as to what they needed to
do. Please, if you want to play an idiot, don't give him an 18 INT.
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 16:11:09 -0500
From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org>
To: why@mars.superlink.net
Subject: Re: ego power
Uhh... 6d6 Ego Attack is 60 active by itself, and AE:line increases that
to 120. 5d6 EB, AE:line, based on ECV would be 75. With "no range", it's
50 real...
Donald
From: "Sean Pavlish" <pavlish@erols.com>
Subject: Re: ego power
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:54:04 -0400
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> It looks to me like you have already described the power perfectly:
>
> 6d6 EGO Attack, AOE Line (+1), Visible (-1/4). 60 Active, 48 Real cost.
> That's a devistating attack. It averages 21 points against everyone but
> the enemy mentalist. You don't even need a great ECV, how hard is it to
> hit the poor defenseless hex.
>
> Joe
>
uhm, I believe that ego attack is 10 per die.. thus, it would be 120 active.... not
60.
Sean
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: R Jacobs <rjacobs@radiks.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:31:45 -0500
Subject: #HEROCHAT on DALNET
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Okay Gang,
Here is your chance to discuss The Hero System Champions game in real
time with other players from around the country (around THE WORLD even
-- hopefully). Just get on your favorite IRC program and hop over to
#HEROCHAT on DALNET.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, grab yourself a copy of mIRC
(available on the web at WWW.MIRC.CO.UK) and choose ANY DALNET server
(you'll understand that part once you get MIRC up and running) and come
join us!!
Currently, the ops of #HEROCHAT include:
Matthew "CHESSMAN" Mactyre
Shelley "WILD_GOOSE" Chrystal Mactyre
Robert "GOTHYK" Jacobs
Mathieu "DREAMWLD" Roy
Come join us!!! Matt and Shell are on around 6-9pm PST and I'm around
too much for my own good...see you there!!
Rob "GOTHYK"
"Keeper of the Lists"
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:34:45 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Seeing as the list is so quiet, I'll offer up a scenario idea... (in
exchange for asking a question on how to do a part of it)
First a little background:
Here in Minneapolis we just had 'OzzFest' - an all day concert with 14
heavy metal bands, including Marilyn Manson. The concert was originally
supposed to be in Somerset Wisconsin (about 1/2 hour away) but a group
of 'concerned christians' got together and started a petition to stop
them from having the concert there if Marilyn was going to play. When
the concert was moved to Minneapolis, a similar christian group tried to
do the same thing here (they were unsuccessful - it's a little tougher
to do this in a city than in a small town).
For those of you unfamiliar with Marilyn Manson - his image is pretty
heavy with satanism undertones. (his tshirts all tout slogans like 'tell
me you love Satan' and 'Dont trust God - the Lord is a shepard') He
looks alot like Edward Scissorhands crossed with the transvestite from
Rocky Horror. He does things on stage like pretending to cut himself
(and despite what the media says, its fake blood - I watched close
tonite), rips up bibles, gets the crowd to chant things like 'We hate
love, we love hate', etc... he REALLY plays up the whole image and
drives the crowd into a real frenzy in the process. Drives the
christian groups (and the media) completely nuts.
disclaimer #1: I'm not a Marilyn Manson fan, I actually went to the
concerts for a couple of the OTHER bands... like Type O Negative! ;)
Anyway, now that I've set the stage, here's the scenario:
(Disclaimer #2 - if this seems to be a bit... disjointed, keep in mind
that I'm writing this after about 8 hours of listening to heavy metal
bands.. and my ears are still ringing)
Marilyn Manson (change the name if you want - I'm leaving it alone
because I know it will push some buttons in my group ;) is coming to
town to do a concert. Your campaign city has one of those groups that
EVERY city has - usually called something like 'Citizens for Decency' or
'Minneapolis Christian Coalition'. This group has made alot of noise
about not wanting this concert to take place.
Nobody is sure WHAT Marilyn Manson's real story is. His following just
gets stronger and stronger. After going to his concerts, his fans can't
wait to run out and buy just about anything with his name on it. The
more outragous he gets, the more the fans love him. Their devotion
borders on fanatacism.
The PCs are asked to go undercover at the concert and see just what is
going on.
What nobody knows: Marilyn's music is his expression of his
superpowers. His early songs work a large area effect ego drain. His
'speeches' in between songs are him using his high Oratory to inspire
the now low-ego fans. His final song is a large area effect mind
control that makes the crowd fanatically loyal to him (at the level to
make them think it is their own idea - not so tough to do to the
currently ego 0 fans).
The fun part: after the final song, when the christian group's own team
of supers breaks in to put a stop to this evil, a good share of the PCs
should already be under the mind control, and be ready to jump to
Marilyn's defense!
The best way to do this: know in advance which PCs have power defense,
how much ego is drained before the final song, what each PCs adjusted
ego (and ego roll) now is. Pre-Roll the mind control for the final
song, ask each PC to make a 3d6 roll (but dont tell them what it is
for). Seperate the PCs into 2 groups: those who are controlled, and
those that arent. Describe the scene of the christian supergroup
busting in to each group the way that they would see it: the controlled
group would see a group of murderous supers busting in and trying to
murder the innocent musician. The PCs who AREN'T controlled see things
as they actually are.. and won't understand why their friends are
fighting AGAINST them! Should provide for some good roleplaying, and a
chance for some of the PCs to go toe to toe with each other (and we all
know they are always looking for a chance to do THAT!)
Eventually the group of controlled PCs should grow smaller and smaller
(either as they are defeated, or as they break the mind-control. Maybe
give them another ego roll to break if a team mate actively tries to
convince them that they are being controlled?)
I'm going to use the above scenario to introduce another Supers group to
the campaign - a team that is considered 'one of the goodguys', but will
not always be working towards the same goals as the PCs are (and will
sometimes have conflicting goals). The above scenario will give them a
built in rivalry..
Okay, I shared the scenario... now the questions:
1. In order for the above scenario to work, the PCs cant realize that
their ego is being drained. Will just buying invisible power effects
take care of that? Or do I need to do something else?
2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
can do the characters...
Well, any comments, suggestions, critisisms? Anybody else want to share
a scenario idea?
Todd
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:25:42 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: RolePlaying(WAS: Related subject:)
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> > >It was even worse with games
> > >other than Champions, (like anything by RTG). Where one particular player's
> > >characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The
> > >characters weren't faking it either. They were panicing because the player
> > >thought it was cuite, and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+
> > >PRE would also do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with
> > >all sorts of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for
> > >because it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
> >
> > uh-huh? and this is bad why? roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be
> > commended! for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
> > and as for supes. . . .
>
> Roleplyingbelow their stat level is to be commended? Where do you get this
> idea? What is your idea of roleplaying, doing sutff that's cuite or funny?
> Neither Sups of spiderman run around acting like bimbos, why then should
> players playing characters with comprable mental stats be rewarding for
> playing their charcters as if they were morons.
(and so on....)
It seems to me that there may be a misinterpretation by some people
between character concept, roleplaying, and character sheets. Allow me
to rant and ramble....
The original complaint had to do with players not playing their
characters' conceptions properly. I have to agree that that is a valid
complaint;
1)Powers and skills not 'paid for' are powers and skills that the
character does not have. Roleplaying cannot make a character understand
how to rebuild a car's engine if (s)he has no mechanics skill; even if
the PLAYER can.
2)Powers and skills that ARE paid for do not simply 'disappear' for
the sake of a humourous reaction or 'take'. If a character has a 25
PRE, (s)he's not going to be frightened or cowed by a thing jumping out
from a bush.
How a person roleplays a character is intimately linked with both the
character's conception AND the character's actual writeup. A Character
with a <19 Computer Programming skill can be roleplayed as a Supreme
Hacker. A character with a <8 Computer Programming roll can only be
roleplayed as a Supreme Hacker WANNABE, or a self-admitted novice. If a
character's concept calls for (in this example) a computer genius, the
player must spend the points, or else change the concept. A Character
with a 23 INT can PRETEND to be an idiot, but (s)he will not actually BE
an idiot.
Roleplaying has to do with personality and psychology, not with
whether or not one has or has not a particular skill; by this I mean
that if you HAVE a skill, you have it, if you don't you don't, period.
ROLEPLAYING has to do with whether that <19 pianist skill makes an
insufferable primadonna or a humble artist. It is important to remember
that in a ROLE PLAYING GAME, a character's ABILITIES are defined by what
is/is not on his/her character sheet, a character's PERSONALITY may be
partially defined by his/her Psych Lims and other Disads; a character's
CONCEPTION must accomodate both of these aspects, and played according
to all three.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:51:54 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Todd Hanson sez;
<Scenario Presented>
> 1. In order for the above scenario to work, the PCs cant realize that
> their ego is being drained. Will just buying invisible power effects
> take care of that? Or do I need to do something else?
Invisible Power Effects is precisely what would be appropriate in
this situation, and you'd probably want to include invisible to mental
as well (+1; invisible to all senses)
> 2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
> use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
> fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
> can do the characters...
I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
has;
Mother Superior
Father Secola
Cardinal Biggles
Cardinal Fang
and Caspar the Holy Ghost
Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
have a specific theme for their powers;
Mother Superior; Moses-style abilities (calling down plagues, nasty
weather against the enemy....)
Cardinal Biggles; A Charismatic preacher w/healing, mind control, and
an aid to give additional powers to the 'converted'.
Cardinal Fang; A Brick (The 'Righteous Fist of God)
Caspar; A multiform of the 'Father'(Aids and Drains), the 'Son'(ability
to do small 'miracles'), and the holy ghost(Desol and the ability to
possess people - at least those who are already righteous....)
Father Secola; Simply transportation (Huge amounts of Teleportation
useable on the whole team.)
--
Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:59:13 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Mind Control
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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The Marilyn Manson Scenario idea has caused me to pose a question
somewhat in relation to its concept;
When a PC is mind-controlled, How do you handle it as a GM; does the
player get to keep playing the character (under new 'orders') or do you
take over the character until the player can break the control?
I would have to assume that this depends on what kind of players one
has; in my group I am exceedingly fortunate that my players are just as
excited at playing their characters as mind-controlled puppets as they
are to trounce the villians. I guess the more accurate question is;
How many GM's have players who can be trusted to play their own
mind-controlled characters?
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:35:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
> Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
> some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
> has;
>
> Mother Superior
> Father Secola
> Cardinal Biggles
> Cardinal Fang
> and Caspar the Holy Ghost
>
> Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
> have a specific theme for their powers;
Alot depends on how seriously you want the PC's to take the group. No
matter how serious the above group was shown to be, I'd never be able to
really take them seriously because of the Monty Python connection.
On good religious group, surprisingly, was done up in the Elementals. The
characters were given names from biblical scripture, the passage relating
to their powers. I don't remember the exact names and passages off hand,
but an example is naming a character Exodus 3:16 (And there was a shroud
of darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness that could be felt) and
give the character darkforce powers.
It should not be too tough to dig up my comics and post the exact names
and passages if there is interest.
TokyoMark
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:52:10 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
Todd Hanson wrote
<edited>
>
> 1. In order for the above scenario to work, the PCs cant realize that
> their ego is being drained. Will just buying invisible power effects
> take care of that? Or do I need to do something else?
maybe throw in a small "Mental Suggestion"..... like you feel nothing
unusual or ignore what is happening to you
> 2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
> use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
> fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
> can do the characters...
some name ideas:
Revelation
Shepard
Holy Trinity
Holy Ghost
Apostle
Angel
Jericho
Cain
Crucifix
Dove
Retribution
Brimstone
Adam
Eve
Disciple (spelling?)
Father...
Sister...
Brother...
Devotion
Vengence (is Mine, sayeth the Lord)
Convert
David
Goliath
Judas
Revival
Miracle
Cleric
Monk
Paladin
Preacher
> Well, any comments, suggestions, critisisms? Anybody else want to share
> a scenario idea?
Hmmmmm scenario idea?........ OK How about a group of 20 something
Superpowered friends..... they aren't really Badguys but the aren't
really Heroes either. In fact they behave a lot like C.L.O.W.N..... but
are more interested in having fun than anything else.
Any ideas on what kinds of things they might do to attract the attention
of the local Superteam?
Jerry aka
Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 05:01:09 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Tokyo Mark wrote:
>
> > I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
> > Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
> > some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
> > has;
> >
> > Mother Superior
> > Father Secola
> > Cardinal Biggles
> > Cardinal Fang
> > and Caspar the Holy Ghost
> >
> > Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
> > have a specific theme for their powers;
>
> Alot depends on how seriously you want the PC's to take the group. No
> matter how serious the above group was shown to be, I'd never be able to
> really take them seriously because of the Monty Python connection.
>
> On good religious group, surprisingly, was done up in the Elementals. The
> characters were given names from biblical scripture, the passage relating
> to their powers. I don't remember the exact names and passages off hand,
> but an example is naming a character Exodus 3:16 (And there was a shroud
> of darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness that could be felt) and
> give the character darkforce powers.
>
> It should not be too tough to dig up my comics and post the exact names
> and passages if there is interest.
>
> TokyoMark
I remember that issue..... if you do find it... I at least would love
to see the list...... if for nothing else than to learn the passages
again..... I always thought that was a neat concept.... but never
bothered to look up the actual quotes.
In the same vein.... Anybody out there of a faith other than Christian
that could contribute names or concepts?
Jerry aka
Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
From: S McGinness <smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 97 11:41:15 GMT
Subject: re: A scenario idea, and a question
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To: champ-l@omg.org
Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@NET.OnRamp>
>Any ideas on what kinds of things they might do to attract the attention
>of the local Superteam?
Well the Temperance League (perhaps teh ideal name for such a group)
have been used on countless occasions within westerns to provide
some light relief. A supergroup based on religion might cause a
disturbance in the local redlight area as they storm through strip
joints etc, saving these young women from degradation, and young
men from the sins of the flesh.....
Slightly stronger, the team may be of a fundamentalist bent (why
else would they be a problem!!) and have plans about a potential
Papal visit.....
Stronger again, they might decide to remove various government
officials who are obviously not fit to be in charge of themselves
never mind the country, obviously without recourse to the ballot box....
Approaching delicate material would be interference in the process
of abortions, most religious organisations are against the practice
and this kind of fundamentalist group might be the opportunity to
explore the issue in your game (if you're into serious stuff, not
very four colour this!)....
One approach might be that used in the Squadron Supreme maxi-series
(yeah, yeah, JLA ripped off by Marvel, but the story was _good_)
where the superheroes take control of government and then use
a mind altering process to force villains etc to be "good" citizens.
This addresses the whole mind rape issue that ripped across the
list some time ago. A scenario based around this had my old group
split in some very odd ways, but it did encourage in-character
debate.
Finally we could go for the strongest theme of all.
They might hail from Texas and be interested in carrying out justice
upon a criminal who has escaped the death penalty in Texas by being
tried in a "decadent" state where the death penalty is not used.
They only want to carry out some "natural justice" and see that the
will of God is carried out properly!
There's a whole range of stuff you can do with a seriously powerful
group of beings who can be programmed to follow any kind of
religious fundamentalism. Obviously how you use them will be
determined by how far you reckon they will go (kidnap, murder, mind
control...) and what their agenda is.
>Jerry aka
>Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
Stephen McGinness
From: Legionair@aol.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:18:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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To: champ-l@omg.org
In a message dated 97-06-23 07:15:14 EDT, badtodd@dacmail.net (Todd Hanson)
writes:
<< Well, any comments, suggestions, critisisms? Anybody else want to share
a scenario idea? >>
The final episode of Macross Plus used a similar situation. You might want
to take a look at that for another view. This one had to do with a computer
AI being the performer.
Jason
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 06:47:23 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
S McGinness wrote:
> some light relief. A supergroup based on religion might cause a
> disturbance in the local redlight area as they storm through strip
> joints etc, saving these young women from degradation, and young
> men from the sins of the flesh.....
>
> Slightly stronger, the team may be of a fundamentalist bent (why
> else would they be a problem!!) and have plans about a potential
> Papal visit.....
>
> Stronger again, they might decide to remove various government
> officials who are obviously not fit to be in charge of themselves
> never mind the country, obviously without recourse to the ballot box....
>
> Approaching delicate material would be interference in the process
> of abortions, most religious organisations are against the practice
> and this kind of fundamentalist group might be the opportunity to
> explore the issue in your game (if you're into serious stuff, not
> very four colour this!)....
> There's a whole range of stuff you can do with a seriously powerful
> group of beings who can be programmed to follow any kind of
> religious fundamentalism. Obviously how you use them will be
> determined by how far you reckon they will go (kidnap, murder, mind
> control...) and what their agenda is.
There is another direction this can go, after a while as well. Something
I've toyed with doing but have never done (yet). Introduce this kind of
extremist group, the kind that embodies the worst of the perceptions of
Christians and Christian groups, and let them run rampant over things
(as described above). After a rivalry between them and PCs are
established, introduce a new group, also with Christian/Religous
overtones, but these are all the "softer" side. A healer, a philospher
Martial Artist who found his truth in the Bible, maybe an angel (if that
is a feature of your campaign), a paranormal priest. The kind of people
who believe in a lot of the attitudes that the other 'Christian' team
does, but only if those values are chosen, not forced. This attitude (IE
not forcing your views, "however right they may be", onto someone else)
brings them into conflict with the first team, and the PCs are (somehow)
caught in the middle.
Make for a lot of soul-searching, I'd think.
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain:
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:19:20 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: Mind Control
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Capt. Spith wrote:
>
> The Marilyn Manson Scenario idea has caused me to pose a question
> somewhat in relation to its concept;
> When a PC is mind-controlled, How do you handle it as a GM; does the
> player get to keep playing the character (under new 'orders') or do you
> take over the character until the player can break the control?
> I would have to assume that this depends on what kind of players one
> has; in my group I am exceedingly fortunate that my players are just as
> excited at playing their characters as mind-controlled puppets as they
> are to trounce the villians. I guess the more accurate question is;
> How many GM's have players who can be trusted to play their own
> mind-controlled characters?
I generally explain to the PC (usually privately) what is going on, and
trust them to roleplay it (with an occasional prodding from me if
necessary). I think I could probably trust 4 out of my 5 players to
roleplay their character being mind controlled (and probably love the
hell out of it at the same time) ;)
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:21:22 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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Tokyo Mark wrote:
> Alot depends on how seriously you want the PC's to take the group. No
> matter how serious the above group was shown to be, I'd never be able to
> really take them seriously because of the Monty Python connection.
>
> On good religious group, surprisingly, was done up in the Elementals. The
> characters were given names from biblical scripture, the passage relating
> to their powers. I don't remember the exact names and passages off hand,
> but an example is naming a character Exodus 3:16 (And there was a shroud
> of darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness that could be felt) and
> give the character darkforce powers.
>
> It should not be too tough to dig up my comics and post the exact names
> and passages if there is interest.
Please do - I want this group to be taken VERY seriously. Eventually
there will be some serious confrontations with this group when their
goals conflict (the PC group being under the control of the government,
the religous group being under the control of a fringe church group)
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:27:16 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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At 01:34 AM 6/23/97 -0500, Todd Hanson wrote:
(Background and Scenrio snipped)
>
>1. In order for the above scenario to work, the PCs cant realize that
>their ego is being drained. Will just buying invisible power effects
>take care of that? Or do I need to do something else?
IPE takes care of this as far as I know, however do not let the PLAYER
know that he has been Ego Drained either, just make the necessary
adjustemnts when
you have to.
>2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
>use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
>fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
>can do the characters...
Having been raised in a Fundamentalist Christian environment (Pentecostal
Church) I can tell you with great authority that they would absolutely not
have a superteam. Anyone with such powers would be considered "In League with
the Devil"... sorry...
>Well, any comments, suggestions, critisisms? Anybody else want to share
>a scenario idea?
It's a neat idea, but I can't see any way to work it based on real-life
Fundamentalist Christian Groups....
limit? The rulebook said that a good guideline for a -1 limit
was something that reduces the power's usefulness in half. It
seems to me if you give up the DCV bonus, the vs perception roll
bonus, and the size reduction, you're giving up at least half
of the power's usefulness. At only -1/2, 6 levels of density reduction
(decreasing your weight to 1/(8^6)th, nearly as light as air) costs
60 * (1 / (1 + 1/2)) = 40 CP. If you want this to cost no END,
that brings the cost to 60 CP! This is increadibly costly, especially
since you have to buy any useful side effects like gliding seperately
(except for the increased leaping you get by being lighter). Also,
you get one heck of a knockback penalty (an old lady could accidently
jostle "Suprisingly Light Man" and send him into orbit!). Although,
I guess you could bring the cost down with a power framework.
-Eric
From ???@??? Wed Jun 18 18:51:21 1997
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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:53:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Power Question - Reply
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>Okay, here's another Wildcards power question.
>
>Lazy Dragon has the ability to animate (and bring to life) anything he
>carves or creates out of folded paper. Thus he can whittle a block of
>soap into a mouse, or create an orgami tiger, possess the creation and
>*persto* instant full size mouse or tiger. The largest thing he's createe
>has been an oriental dragon (one 20' long, the other 40' long). He fall
>unconcious while the creation is active, and if the creature is killed, he
>returns to his own body.
>
>So...
>
>This looks like Duplication with the limitation that one of the Duplicates
>is inactive while the 'duplicate' is active. Also, the Duplicate can be
>damn near anything. Would people feel that giving the duplicate a
> massive cosmic power pool (Only to simulate animal powers) abusive?
> And what sort of lim is it to have one dupliacte fall 'asleep' (and how
> would one handle the 'snap back to original body part'?
>
>Or is this a really wierd form of summon?
>
I like the duplication path. The idea of a variable power pool for the
duplicate works for me.
There is a character called 'Mr. Nobody' in the Allies supplement. This
would be a good template for the duplicate. Mr. Nobody can
shapechange into any animal (if he makes his skill roll). He has
shapeshift, 0 end, persistant [to become the animal]. A 100 point power
pool, control cost reduced by skill roll, extra time full phase, appropriate
animal powers only (-1/2) [to get the animal's abilities]. He also had a 60
pt Multipower with 6lv Growth and 6 lv shrinking in ultra slots [to adjust
his size]. He also had an AID vs multiple characteristics, only for
appropriate animal stats (-1/2) fades 5/day (i think?). [To adjust his
statistics. You could simply buy stats from the power pool.]
Daniel Flacks
dflacks@evron.com
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:42:21 1997
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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:20:51 -0700
From: Mike Sprague <sprague@VivaNET.com>
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Subject: Re: b-b-b-b-b-b-boom......
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TRandom@aol.com wrote:
>
> Are autofire area effect attacks handled normally, or are there
> (should there be) some way of preventing jello-boy in the target
> hex from being automatically liquified?
I think they are handled normally (nasty if it's a big attack).
Hmmm, I wonder if you might get a bonus on Diving for Cover vs. Autofire
AE.
Or maybe one could say that you take one shot for every point you miss
the Dive for Cover Roll by. That is, if you miss it by 1, you take one
shot. You miss it by two, you take two ... and so on.
Note that the BBB (page 92) says that if the attack doesn't require an
attack roll (and since your only attacking a hex rather than a
character, I would think this would apply), then the Autofire Advantage
is +1. Thus, this attack would have a +2 Advantage, and be rather
expensive, if it were to be useful.
~ Mike
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:42:27 1997
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From: "Matt Korth" <korthmat@cps.msu.edu>
Organization: Organi[zs]ation? Boy, do you have the wron
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 23:19:14 -0500
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> Eric says:
>
> >Unfortunately, your email seems a bit garbled. Some of
> >the words in it ar replaced with <BD> or <BE>.
>
> The copy that came back to me looked okay. Did anyone else have this
> problem?
This is somewhat off-topic, but hey--you asked.
You have MIME Quoted-Printable encoding enabled in your mailer.
Quoted-Printable encoding would use =BD to represent 1/2 (½), and =BE
for 3/4 (_).
If anyone wonders just *why* they'd do it that way, you can e-mail me (or
any of the other computer people on the Hero List)--it's not on-topic for
the list.
--
korthmat@cps.msu.edu http://www.cps.msu.edu/~korthmat
*** People who send me UCE or UBE will be crucified. ***
"Were you always this stupid--or did you take lessons?"
"I took lessons!" --_The Long Kiss Goodnight_
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:42:38 1997
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From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:12:56 -0400
Subject: Urban Folklore
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Concerning the Urban Folklore thread, I tried to access the alt.folkloe.urban
group and got the following error:
*News Error!
*News host responded: You're not allowed to read alt.folklor.urban, sorry.
Sounds kinda sinister to me. I think the group is covering it's tracks.
The truth is out there. Trust. Know. One.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:42:49 1997
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From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
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TRandom@aol.com wrote:
>
> Are autofire area effect attacks handled normally, or are there (should there
> be) some way of preventing jello-boy in the target hex from being
> automatically liquified?
According to the write-up in the BBB, (page 147-148) Area affect
attacks are targeted at a hex (DCV 3) with normal modifiers. If an
attack roll misses, the center of the area affect misses by 1" for every
'1' the roll is missed by. Thus, with an autofire AOE, since one hit is
counted for every '2' the roll is made by, then apply all attacks
applicable directly to the target, then those 'hits' which miss the
target will leave a trail of AOE's every 2" in the direction missed.
>EXAMPLE<
A 5-shot AOE flame-ball is fired at Lemmingman. After modifiers and
such are figured, the attack hits the hex by 5 (<14 to hit, rolled a
9). So flame-balls hit the target hex for 9, 11, and 13. But there
were two more shots fired, so a 'missed' direction is rolled.
(Rattlerattle-clickitakatikikatik) and the add'l shots miss to the front
of the target, so the next 'hit' number (15) puts the next AOE center at
1" in front of the target, the next (17) at 3" in front of Lemmingman.
Oops, this puts the last shot too close and Flameboy singes himself with
his own attack. Although, every attack will probably have overlapped
Lemmingman's hex anyway, so he still takes full autofire damage.
And I do agree that an AOE counts as a non-standard attack roll, so
Autofire costs a +1 advantage more.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:42:52 1997
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Subject: Re: Stupid Mind Tricks
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> Reincarnation - everytime the character dies he comes back,
> but somehow different. This could either be like The Doctor,
> who sort of reincarnates in place, or the character's life
> essense could fuse with someone else's somewhere in the
> world (the hero group would get a phone call a week or so
> after the character's death from some guy in Belgium, claiming
> to be the killed hero). I like the latter idea better because
> it is more interesting. The character would lose all the
> knowledge that his previous host had, but gain all the knowledge
> that the new host has. He would also keep a certain amount of core
> knowledge and abilities (including some powers).
>
> I know a variable power pool would probably figure in to the
> changinge characteristics, perks, and skills, but how does
> one simulate the fact that the character does not die? And
> also that the character not only is transported to some other
> spot on the earth (telepotation with huge range and a bunch
> of limits?) but literally becomes someone else (shapechange?).
> Would all that STUN and BODY damage that the character suffered have
> to be healed with a linked aid power? Or whould that be handled by
> special effects?
This one is covered by the Spirit Rules in Hero Almanac #1. Spirits
can have instantaneous transportation, possession, mind swapping,
and other, similar powers. Unfortunately, the rules are to long to
repost here.
Filksinger
The more I learn about computers, and the more I talk to the experts, the more I realise I will be making stupid mistakes for the rest of my life.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:42:58 1997
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Subject: Re: Nonstandard settings = Dark Wheel Galaxy
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>
> > Actually, I'd meant to post to ask people what unusual
> > settings they'd used Hero for other then the 'dark champions'
> > or '4 color superhero' genres.
> >
> > Can you tell us more about this ?
> >
> > Curt Hicks
>
> I have a campaign setting that I haven't used yet, but intend to
> eventually. I call it, "The Unredeemed". It is set in what appears
> to the average man to be the real world, but all of the characters
> know that something is very, very, wrong.
>
> The characters are people who have all had bad lives, or who have
> been outright evil. Then one day, they encounter the _real_ evil,
> and are desperate to stop it.
>
> Characters might include a heroin-addicted housewife turned hooker
> for fun, who was dragged into a sex-death black magic cult; a
> businessman who unknowingly used his mind control powers to
> manipulate and destroy people, who one day has dinner at his boss's
> house where he is offered mentoring in the _real_ uses of such
> power; and a Mob hit man who is haunted by buried memories of
> Something he saw in Viet Nam, something much worse than napalming
> children, something that makes him want to kill every man he sees,
> in case one of Those is riding him.
>
> The idea is that magic is on the rise again after thousands of
> years, but that due to careful planning and unsuspected hidden power
> sources, evil is ready while good is not. The most powerful good
> person has been forced to call together these people, offering them
> the chance to buy back their souls.
>
> Another campaign that I used, though the unusual aspects have been
> mostly bypassed so far, was based upon a short story I once read.
> The aliens land and prepare their terror weapons to intimidate the
> natives, who are unable to resist. After all, they don't even have
> anti-grav and hyperwave, and no race has weapons nearly this
> powerful and frightening without first developing those two forces.
>
> When the diplomats and the scientists come up to the craft, with the
> marines hiding in the bushes, the aliens come out and fire upon the
> diplomats.
>
> With flintlocks.
>
> The human race, as a result, owns working antigrav and hyperdrive
> within about 5 minutes. The devices are actually extremely simple,
> so simple that they are made _by accident_ by most races in the
> Bronze Age. Humans, somehow, missed them entirely for millennia.
>
> In my campaign, the devices turned out to be psionic-based, and
> almost no human could use them. A few could under the influence of
> various drugs that were becoming popular among the neo-hippies of
> the early 21st Century. As a result, a wide variety of extremely odd
> and radical groups became the first humans to colonize the stars.
> Shortly afterwards, the devices were redesigned for non-psionic use,
> and everyone else set out to try to find their own personal planet.
> This happened four hundred years ago.
>
> This allows you to meet anything from spaceships with cannons that
> belong on a galleon, to worlds dominated by every weird religion,
> political system, or lifestyle you can imagine. Additionally, as
> mankind moves out into the galaxy, he is beginning to discover that
> he isn't quite number one in the technological, power, or
> destructiveness circles.
>
> Filksinger
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:02 1997
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From: "David Nasset, Sr." <Filksinger@dns01.ops.usa.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:13:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: Stupid Shrinking Tricks (was RE: Stupid Mind Tricks)
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> Combat Shrinking
<snip>
>
> For hand-to-hand combat, the GM has the option to ignore Shrinking
> DCV bonuses completely, regardless of the size of the combatants.
> Small characters are still hard to hit, but when the attacker's hand
> is bigger than the entire shrinker's body, it can become the
> equivalent of an area effect attack, and cancel out the Shrinker's
> DCV.
This was built into the original shrinking, and I'm sorry they ever
got rid of it. Growth only made you easier to hit at range, by
decreasing range mods, and shrinking only made you harder to hit by
decreasing range mods.
I liked this, because the present rules really don't make a lot of
sense. Consider a man only six inches tall. He runs up to you
(slowly), and tries to punch you in the foot. However, if you move
your foot 3 inches, you are suddenly out of reach.
On the other hand, if you lift your foot out of his reach, then he's
going to have trouble getting out of the way when you stomp.
Characters with Growth should only have difficulty dodging hand to
hand attacks if they move slowly compared to normal man. A fifty foot
tall man can dodge a smaller man forever, simply by lifting whatever
foot he is near.
However, there is one possible justification for the high
Shrinking DCV, but it would make you hard to hit no matter what
size your opponent is. Since shrunk characters in the BBB don't have
slower running (or other movement), their increased DCV makes some
sense. Imagine trying to swat a bug that can move 6"/phs. It takes him
only a fraction of a second to move a few inches, whereupon your fist
misses. This is why flies are so hard to hit, so long as they can
move. However, if this increased mobility compared to body size is the
reason shrunk characters are hard to hit, then it applies no matter
who they fight with, regardless of size.
<snip>
> Travel Through Phone Lines
>
> Some characters can get small enough to travel through the phones
> lines.
<snip>
> Traveling at the speed of sound will still take a few seconds for a
> long-distance call. Nowadays, many phone lines are fiber optic, and
> don't transmit at the speed of sound, but the speed of light.
Uh, phone transmissions under normal circumstances travel at the speed
of electricity, not sound. If they traveled at the speed of sound
(roughly 745mph), it would take an hour for someone 745 miles away to
hear you. Even calling someone a mile away would create an added delay
of several seconds between a question and a reply.
The speed of electricity, under ideal conductivity, is the speed of
light. Through copper wiring, it is still about 1/4 the speed of
light, an insignificant difference at planetary distances on a
segments/phases/turns time scale.
Filksinger
The more I learn about computers, and the more I talk to the experts, the more I realise I will be making stupid mistakes for the rest of my life.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:04 1997
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From: "David Nasset, Sr." <Filksinger@gr.cc.wa.us>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:13:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: Nonstandard settings = Dark Wheel Galaxy
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>
> > Actually, I'd meant to post to ask people what unusual
> > settings they'd used Hero for other then the 'dark champions'
> > or '4 color superhero' genres.
> >
> > Can you tell us more about this ?
> >
> > Curt Hicks
>
> I have a campaign setting that I haven't used yet, but intend to
> eventually. I call it, "The Unredeemed". It is set in what appears
> to the average man to be the real world, but all of the characters
> know that something is very, very, wrong.
>
> The characters are people who have all had bad lives, or who have
> been outright evil. Then one day, they encounter the _real_ evil,
> and are desperate to stop it.
>
> Characters might include a heroin-addicted housewife turned hooker
> for fun, who was dragged into a sex-death black magic cult; a
> businessman who unknowingly used his mind control powers to
> manipulate and destroy people, who one day has dinner at his boss's
> house where he is offered mentoring in the _real_ uses of such
> power; and a Mob hit man who is haunted by buried memories of
> Something he saw in Viet Nam, something much worse than napalming
> children, something that makes him want to kill every man he sees,
> in case one of Those is riding him.
>
> The idea is that magic is on the rise again after thousands of
> years, but that due to careful planning and unsuspected hidden power
> sources, evil is ready while good is not. The most powerful good
> person has been forced to call together these people, offering them
> the chance to buy back their souls.
>
> Another campaign that I used, though the unusual aspects have been
> mostly bypassed so far, was based upon a short story I once read.
> The aliens land and prepare their terror weapons to intimidate the
> natives, who are unable to resist. After all, they don't even have
> anti-grav and hyperwave, and no race has weapons nearly this
> powerful and frightening without first developing those two forces.
>
> When the diplomats and the scientists come up to the craft, with the
> marines hiding in the bushes, the aliens come out and fire upon the
> diplomats.
>
> With flintlocks.
>
> The human race, as a result, owns working antigrav and hyperdrive
> within about 5 minutes. The devices are actually extremely simple,
> so simple that they are made _by accident_ by most races in the
> Bronze Age. Humans, somehow, missed them entirely for millennia.
>
> In my campaign, the devices turned out to be psionic-based, and
> almost no human could use them. A few could under the influence of
> various drugs that were becoming popular among the neo-hippies of
> the early 21st Century. As a result, a wide variety of extremely odd
> and radical groups became the first humans to colonize the stars.
> Shortly afterwards, the devices were redesigned for non-psionic use,
> and everyone else set out to try to find their own personal planet.
> This happened four hundred years ago.
>
> This allows you to meet anything from spaceships with cannons that
> belong on a galleon, to worlds dominated by every weird religion,
> political system, or lifestyle you can imagine. Additionally, as
> mankind moves out into the galaxy, he is beginning to discover that
> he isn't quite number one in the technological, power, or
> destructiveness circles.
>
> Filksinger
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:10 1997
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From: "David Nasset, Sr." <Filksinger@dns01.ops.usa.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:13:01 +0000
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Subject: Re: stupid shrinking tricks
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> But if I really wanted to get picky, an electron from one phone
> isn't the one that travels all the way to the other phone. The real
> world is so unforgiving ;(
In a world where the simple rules of balance (which make it
impossible to grab the trunk of a car and lift it, no matter what
your strength, unless you are much heavier than the car) don't even
apply, you are going to get picky about particle physics?
Filksinger
"No Silicon Heaven? Then where do all the calculators go when they die?"
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:11 1997
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From: "David Nasset, Sr." <Filksinger@dns01.ops.usa.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:13:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: Code vs Killing
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> > looking for a bit of advice..
> >
> > How do other GMs handle a character who has code vs killing.. and
> > kills?
> >
> > Let me point out up front - this hasn't happened.. YET. But I'm
> > expecting it to.
>
> If you don't mind that he doesn't have a Code vs. Killing, let him
> buy it off. Point out that you are the arbiter of what his
> disadvantage means, and that if he won't follow it, he has to pay to
> remove it. After all, "reluctance to kill" is a standard no-point
> Disadvantage for 4-color comics, so if his character is merely
> reluctant to kill, he gets no points.
>
> However, if you want him to stop behaving like that, and live up to
> the disadvantage (as you apparently originally intended), there are
> a few possibilities. Keep in mind that these can backfire, so if it
> starts to cause problems, just insist that he buy it off and leave
> it at that.
>
> I would suggest that you start by privately talking to the other
> players. Point out that, according to official sources, characters
> with 20pt. Code vs Killing will _not_ tolerate killing under any
> circumstances. Point out that their _characters_, at the very least,
> are extremely disturbed by this sort of behavior, and ask that they
> play that in character.
>
> Second, let NPCs start disapproving of the character's behavior. If
> a relationship begins to form with an NPC, let it be damaged or
> ruined when the NPC sees how "trigger happy" he is. Let other heroes
> who see this behavior start to shun him, and by association, the
> rest of the group. If they are part of an official group, sanction
> him.
>
> Next step, give him some publicity. Let his quirk be broadcast by
> Gyro Jim live during a battle. Let the public start showing
> disapproval for him. Have children ask him why he wants to kill
> people.
>
> If this doesn't work, then try the Guilt Complex. This was a
> powerful supervillian group written up in an early Adventurer's
> Club, intended to deal with powergamers, but it can be adapted to
> this purpose. The Guilt Complex was a group of supers who were more
> than a match for police because of their attack powers and high DCV,
> but not the heroes. They could be a little hard to hit at first, and
> give the heroes some trouble to begin with. If the heroes unleashed
> their full might upon them, however, they fell over dead.
>
> Variations include a Viper plot wherein an innocent man is put in
> remote controlled power armor and sent to attack the heroes, or a
> villian is created who humiliates a hero, then a normal is forced to
> play his part in a heist, with the problem character mad enough to
> shoot him dead. Giving a villian a really good motivation to commit
> crime (mother needs $50,000 for operation, etc.) and DNPCs (said
> dying mother works well) who will make the hero feel really bad is
> also a good one.
>
> Basically, though, I don't think there is a solution that will
> change the character's behavior. The player wants to play a hero who
> will kill at times, and will do so no matter what you do. I
> recommend that you either allow him to play that character, perhaps
> after a very minor round of the above to let him know there are
> disadvantages to this behavior in a 4-color campaign, or, if the
> character is unacceptable for the campaign either change or replace
> the campaign, or replace him. That is what I had to do the last time
> I had a player like that, though mine was a much worse case.
>
> Filksinger
The more I learn about computers, and the more I talk to the experts, the more I realise I will be making stupid mistakes for the rest of my life.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:13 1997
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From: "David Nasset, Sr." <Filksinger@gr.cc.wa.us>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 02:13:00 +0000
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Subject: RE: Champions: New Millenium
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> To make a long email shorter, i subscribed here to learn about C:NM
> and see what Champions fans thought of it, but I haven't even seen
> it mentioned.SO I am curious... is it that bad?
No, it isn't bad. In fact, I am considering using it for everything
_except_ my superhero games.
I particularly liked the part where every point of characteristic
counts. If a normal man buys one point of Strength, for instance, he
is actually stronger than a man who didn't, and it impacts the game.
Further, a having a high dexterity or a high skill influences the
odds considerably more than under the Hero System.
Under the old Hero System, a man who had maximum human dexterity was
only +2 at performing DEX-based skills, which isn't much of a
difference. Under the Fuzion system, a character who is very very good
(say 7 for both skill and characteristic) is incapable of failing at
a task that is seriously challenging to your average beginner( say 2
for both skill and characteristic).
It is often stomped for three main reasons. One, the complexity of
the Hero System power design long ago drove off most GMs who don't
like the extreme precision with which you can design powers, or who
can't handle the math. Therefore, this is considered a disadvantage
to most Hero GMs, though many people will find it an advantage.
Secondly, there is, compared to Hero, a severe dearth of powers. This
is especially true when you consider that power Advantages and
Limitations have created a great many power variations that could be
treated as completely separate powers. Two obvious ones that are
often complained about are Damage Shield and Autofire, but there are
many others.
Last, but not least, the rules are very unclear in many cases. In
fact, if you picked up the rules from the 'net, as I did, it is even
worse, as example characters are a must to make sense of these rules.
Filksinger
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:15 1997
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Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:19:14 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:19:14 -0400 (EDT)
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Subject: Uthden Troll stats on the way honest !
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Just a quick note to all on the list that the stats for my mtg/fh conversion
of the Uthden Troll is on it's way at last !
Hopefully, there won't be any great delay in getting The Dragon Whelp posted.
Chuff78002.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:15 1997
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Subject: Transparent force walls
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 06:53:49 -0500
From: Fugazi <fugazi@frontiernet.net>
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-- [ From: Fugazi * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
"A Force Wall can be made transparent to one category of attack by buying
the entire Force Wall witha +1/2 Power Advantage. Of course, the Force
Wall's transparent defense should be 0."
This is the line about Force Walls in the rules book that confuses me.
Okay, so a PD transparent entangle can be shot through without damaging the
entangle, unless the tangle is specifically targeted, right? However,
according to this line, a PD transparent Force Wall will go down the minute
it is targeted, as its "transparent defense should be 0." Even though a PD
transparent entangle still has its PD def, its just ignored until its
concentrated on.
I had originally thought that you can create a Force Wall that cannot be
destroyed by attacks from one category, if it is bought transparent to that
category. Sort of a trade off, as the person "caged" by the Force Wall can
use that category to attack through the wall also. But if it works like an
entangle, and it can be attacked by that category if the attacker
specifically focuses on the force wall, then the instant it is hit its going
down. Which sounds more like a limitation than an advantage to me.
What do you think?
Thanks,
Fugazi
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:18 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:21:59 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
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David Nasset, Sr. wrote:
> > Another campaign that I used, though the unusual aspects have been
> > mostly bypassed so far, was based upon a short story I once read.
> > The aliens land and prepare their terror weapons to intimidate the
> > natives, who are unable to resist. After all, they don't even have
> > anti-grav and hyperwave, and no race has weapons nearly this
> > powerful and frightening without first developing those two forces.
> >
> > When the diplomats and the scientists come up to the craft, with the
> > marines hiding in the bushes, the aliens come out and fire upon the
> > diplomats.
> >
> > With flintlocks.
> >
> > The human race, as a result, owns working antigrav and hyperdrive
> > within about 5 minutes. The devices are actually extremely simple,
> > so simple that they are made _by accident_ by most races in the
> > Bronze Age. Humans, somehow, missed them entirely for millennia.
A small digression.....
"The Road Less Taken" by Harry Turtledove.
it is in the collection _Kaliedascope_.
One of my favorite stories in the world. The anigrav as described in the
story has no ancillary uses the way electricty does, so once it is
discovored all the science goes to perfecting that.
One of the best sequences... The aliens that were captured had just
finished talking to the humans, and nuclear weapons were mentioned.
One says to the other "one weapon that can destroy a city... i don't
believe it"
The other responds "I do, there is fear in his voice when he speaks of
it."
Returning to regular thread.
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain:
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:20 1997
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Message-ID: <33A92639.52E8@apeleon.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 06:29:45 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
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Subject: Re: nonstandard settings
References: <199706142001.PAA20583@b04b17.exu.ericsson.se>
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Curt Hicks wrote:
>
> Mike Sprague <sprague@VivaNET.com> wrote:
> > Curt Hicks wrote:
> > > Actually, I'd meant to post to ask people what unusual
> > > settings they'd used Hero for other then the 'dark champions'
> > > or '4 color superhero' genres.
> > >
> Basically unusual genres or combinations of genres that require a bit of
> background explanation... Actually what I'm thinking about is starting another
> type of game rather than my long-running superhero game..
>
> Curt
My fantasy Hero was a genre bender. I was translational (ie people
coming from earth), but that does exist in the source literature so I'm
not exactly sure that is 'unusual' enough.
The strangest ones I have run was short lived but fun.
One was set in a near future. PC belonged to a multi-sport entertainment
circuit. It combined null grav Boxing/Pro Wrestling (one event),
autoduelling (a second event), a team game reminiscent of the thing seen
in battlestar Galactica ( the third event), and a Rollerball-esque game.
The PCs had to be able to compete in all four, but only had to be
specialized in one (they were a rollerball team, with individual
specializations). Half the adventures were doing the 'sports' (like
doing tourneys in a ninja-hero thing) and the rest were mysteries and
such. Herioc level, but on 200+ points.
Another was a group that lived on a near future frontier world, with a
culture almost identical to the old west, but your horse (in effect) was
a mecha. The PCs were a Rock band/Con artist team. The planet had
dinasour-like native life on a desert terrain.
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain:
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:31 1997
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From: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley)
Date: 18 Jun 97 08:37:04 GMT
Subject: babylon revisited
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Please ignore this message, if you have no interest in this subject
matter, or if you are sick to death of this subject. I simply don't need
the hate mail.
I was asked privately by a Mailing List regular to post a
description of the die rolling method used in The Babylon Project,
to further illustrate why I gave that game such a scathing review.
Though I was quite literal and direct when confronted by the game's
author, I did not not elaborate any further than simply presenting my
own opinion. The following corrects that problem.
The Babylon Project is a target-number based game system. The dice
rolled represent positive or negative modifiers that are applied to a
base which is usually gained from adding the total of a stat plus a
skill.
The actual die rolling method itself is fairly simple. One red
six-sided die and one green six sided die are rolled together to
generate a total for each task. The lowest of the two dice renders the
total. Red equaling negative, green equaling positive. With doubles
equaling zero. Except when rolling snake-eyes or boxcars. Snake-eyes
produces a zero result and a spectacular failure. Boxcars produces a
zero result and a spectacular success. But that success or failure is a
side effect, and does not effect the final outcome of that roll.
My criticisms stemmed from the fact that I percieve the die
rolling method itself as being too random. With almost equal chances of
rolling either positive, negative, or zero modifiers. Zero modifiers
have an almost 50-50 chance of producing success or failure. Negative
modifiers are almost a guarantee of failure. And any positive modifier,
at all, seems to produce success.
This die system, in accordance with a target number system that is
very tight numerically, produces the results in accordance with the
extreme amount of randomness that I described previously. Regardless of
the individual character's stat or skill level, or the combination of
the two, the chance of success or failure stays almost 50-50.
Such a basic problem places a stark limit on The Babylon Project's
playability, as a game system. And because of this problem, the GM is
forced to intervene far more often than in a game system, such as Hero,
whose die rolling system actually operates on a coherent bell curve.
___
X SLMR 2.1a X My reality check just bounced.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:34 1997
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From: Darrin.Kelley@october.com (Darrin Kelley)
Date: 18 Jun 97 08:37:04 GMT
Subject: babylon revisited
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Please ignore this message, if you have no interest in this subject
matter, or if you are sick to death of this subject. I simply don't need
the hate mail.
I was asked privately by a Mailing List regular to post a
description of the die rolling method used in The Babylon Project,
to further illustrate why I gave that game such a scathing review.
Though I was quite literal and direct when confronted by the game's
author, I did not not elaborate any further than simply presenting my
own opinion. The following corrects that problem.
The Babylon Project is a target-number based game system. The dice
rolled represent positive or negative modifiers that are applied to a
base which is usually gained from adding the total of a stat plus a
skill.
The actual die rolling method itself is fairly simple. One red
six-sided die and one green six sided die are rolled together to
generate a total for each task. The lowest of the two dice renders the
total. Red equaling negative, green equaling positive. With doubles
equaling zero. Except when rolling snake-eyes or boxcars. Snake-eyes
produces a zero result and a spectacular failure. Boxcars produces a
zero result and a spectacular success. But that success or failure is a
side effect, and does not effect the final outcome of that roll.
My criticisms stemmed from the fact that I percieve the die
rolling method itself as being too random. With almost equal chances of
rolling either positive, negative, or zero modifiers. Zero modifiers
have an almost 50-50 chance of producing success or failure. Negative
modifiers are almost a guarantee of failure. And any positive modifier,
at all, seems to produce success.
This die system, in accordance with a target number system that is
very tight numerically, produces the results in accordance with the
extreme amount of randomness that I described previously. Regardless of
the individual character's stat or skill level, or the combination of
the two, the chance of success or failure stays almost 50-50.
Such a basic problem places a stark limit on The Babylon Project's
playability, as a game system. And because of this problem, the GM is
forced to intervene far more often than in a game system, such as Hero,
whose die rolling system actually operates on a coherent bell curve.
___
X SLMR 2.1a X My reality check just bounced.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:41 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:52:52 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
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Subject: Re: Transparent force walls
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On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Fugazi wrote:
> I had originally thought that you can create a Force Wall that cannot
> be destroyed by attacks from one category, if it is bought transparent to
> that category.
Correct.
> But if it works like an entangle, and it can be attacked by that category if
> the attacker specifically focuses on the force wall, then the instant it is
> hit its going down.
It doesn't work like an Entangle. The description of the "transparent
Entangle" advantage says that it can still be damaged by an attack
directed at the Entangle itself; the "transparent Force Wall" advantage
makes no such allowance.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:42 1997
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Subject: Extended Characters & Garbled Emails
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 11:06:51 -0400
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net
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On 6/18/97 3:45 PM, Dave Mattingly (DaveM@FocusSoft.com) Said:
>>Unfortunately, your email seems a bit garbled. Some of
>>the words in it ar replaced with <BD> or <BE>.
>
>The copy that came back to me looked okay. Did anyone else have this
>problem?
If you use any extended characters for fractions or other symbols, as it
appears that you did (which is usually a very good practice, from a
readability standpoint), people who read the email on a platform that
uses a different extended character set, will not get the same
characters.
Since Unix, Windows (3.x, 95, NT), and Macintosh systems all use
different character sets for those characters in the 128-255 range of the
ASCII chart, you should not use them for email, or HTML documents. Use
the regular 1/2, 3/4, etc. despite the fact that it is less readable.
.oooO |
( ) Oooo. | David A. Fair
\ ( ( ) | SDS International
\_) ) / | dfair@sdslink.com
(_/ |
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:44 1997
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From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Transparent force walls
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> "A Force Wall can be made transparent to one category of attack by buying
>the entire Force Wall witha +1/2 Power Advantage. Of course, the Force
>Wall's transparent defense should be 0."
>
> This is the line about Force Walls in the rules book that confuses me.
>Okay, so a PD transparent entangle can be shot through without damaging the
>entangle, unless the tangle is specifically targeted, right? However,
>according to this line, a PD transparent Force Wall will go down the minute
>it is targeted, as its "transparent defense should be 0." Even though a PD
>transparent entangle still has its PD def, its just ignored until its
>concentrated on.
> I had originally thought that you can create a Force Wall that cannot be
>destroyed by attacks from one category, if it is bought transparent to that
>category. Sort of a trade off, as the person "caged" by the Force Wall can
>use that category to attack through the wall also. But if it works like an
>entangle, and it can be attacked by that category if the attacker
>specifically focuses on the force wall, then the instant it is hit its going
>down. Which sounds more like a limitation than an advantage to me.
>
> What do you think?
I think you're being unnecessarily literal. Transparant Force Wall does not
equal Transparant Entangle. Two entirely different mechanics. Physical
Attacks pass entirely through PD Transparant Force Walls without bringing
down the wall.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, seeing as how this is a particle projection weapon pushing electrons
and charged protons across a 400 gigawatt laser path, it may be a little
difficult for you magic to absorb the nuclear feedback. So the question you
gotta ask yourself isn't 'Do I feel lucky?'... 'cause I know you don't! The
question IS 'Any last words?'"
"Yup. BYE!" <pop>
-Gold Digger
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:45 1997
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From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: Density Reduction
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:07:50 -0400
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Eric said:
>shrinking with a no size reduction limitation
>but only a -1/2 limit?
I had thought about a -1, but when used by someone with great mass, it
can be quite useful. Especially on a character with Growth or Density
Increase, the ability to walk normally across a floor can be quite
useful. I set the cost at -1/2 because I wanted to prevent abuse.
>I guess you could bring the cost down with a power framework.
Yes, if you look at the sample characters in my article, the density
controller, Inertia, uses this power in a multipower.
Dave Mattingly
http://www.geocities.com/area51/cavern/1905/pwrpnt.html
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:46 1997
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From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: Extended Characters & Garbled Emails
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:06:06 -0400
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>If you use any extended characters for fractions or other symbols, as
it
>appears that you did (which is usually a very good practice, from a
>readability standpoint), people who read the email on a platform that
>uses a different extended character set, will not get the same
>characters.
Actually, I didn't do it on purpose, I just cut-and-pasted from my web
page. That must be why I've never run into this before. I generally type
rather than copy my messages.
Thanks for the info, everyone!
Dave Mattingly
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:47 1997
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You may have noticed that I posted an awful lot of emails lately, and
that most of them seem to be copies of other notes. I have just
discovered that my email software has been sending most of my notes
to the originator, and not to the list. I sent them on again, but
forgot to correct the "quoted text" phenomenon until I was half way
through.
I will be separating all of these notes from my other email to
prevent further problems. To all concerned, while my original email
address was filksinger@usa.net, my new address will shortly be
filkhero@usa.net. All email sent to the old address will still be
received by me, however.
Sorry for the off topic post.
Filksinger
The more I learn about computers, and the more I talk to the experts, the more I realise I will be making stupid mistakes for the rest of my life.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:48 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:06:57 +0000
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Subject: Re: CHAR: Dr. Maxim Travnicek
Priority: normal
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> DOCTOR MAXIM TRAVNICEK
>
> Designers Notes:
> Travnicek is tall (6'2") and thin (165 lbs), with graying blond hair
> and thick glasses. He is ill tempered and a misanthrope, who really
> can't stand most people. His wild card power has turned him into a
> brilliant cyberneticist capable of building amazing inventions (see
> Modular Man). Unfortunately, his creative process seems geared to
> creating one-of-a-kind devices and he has yet to produce the Modular
> Man series of robots like he originally planned.
Actually, he isn't brilliant at all. According to one of the books,
investigation into the incredible devices produced by aces shows that
they are unworkable, often constructed of completely useless
materials (for example, an electronic device made of strings and
bobby pins). Travnicek isn't brilliant, he powers Modular Man by his
own psychic ace powers. This is why he cannot create anything
else, because he is out of power. Modular Man cannot be copied,
because he couldn't work if his creator wasn't an ace.
Note that if Travnicek were to die, Modular Man would probably be
destroyed instantly. It is possible, however, that MM's own sentience
includes the mental power to keep himself running.
Filksinger
The more I learn about computers, and the more I talk to the experts, the more I realise I will be making stupid mistakes for the rest of my life.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:50 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:26:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: CHAR: Dr. Maxim Travnicek
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> > DOCTOR MAXIM TRAVNICEK
> >
> > Designers Notes:
> > Travnicek is tall (6'2") and thin (165 lbs), with graying blond hair
> > and thick glasses. He is ill tempered and a misanthrope, who really
> > can't stand most people. His wild card power has turned him into a
> > brilliant cyberneticist capable of building amazing inventions (see
> > Modular Man). Unfortunately, his creative process seems geared to
> > creating one-of-a-kind devices and he has yet to produce the Modular
> > Man series of robots like he originally planned.
>
> Actually, he isn't brilliant at all. According to one of the books,
> investigation into the incredible devices produced by aces shows that
> they are unworkable, often constructed of completely useless
> materials (for example, an electronic device made of strings and
> bobby pins). Travnicek isn't brilliant, he powers Modular Man by his
> own psychic ace powers. This is why he cannot create anything
> else, because he is out of power. Modular Man cannot be copied,
> because he couldn't work if his creator wasn't an ace.
That is a debatable point. The GURPS Wild Cards sourcebook states that he
did develop some nice 'real world' inventions before creating Modular Man,
and that he had a number of revolutionary theories, but his bad tempered
nature kept them from getting the proper attention. Now as to Mod Man
being powered by Travnicek, that's an interesting idea, but after
Travnicek went joker, Mod Man stil worked (even if Travnicek's enchanced
intellect didn't).
> Note that if Travnicek were to die, Modular Man would probably be
> destroyed instantly. It is possible, however, that MM's own sentience
> includes the mental power to keep himself running.
I'm more likely to support that theory.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:51 1997
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From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Message-Id: <199706191900.PAA24406@usmcug.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Wild Cards Question
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 15:00:10 -0400 (EDT)
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I already bugged one of you about the Wild Cards stuff, but
I have one small question... what's the difference between
a "Joker" and an "Ace"? I'm trying to follow these discussions
a little bit and I have next to zero knowledge about the
series of books. Sorry to be a newbie pain in the neck about
this, but I'm curious...
-Eric
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:52 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:14:36 -1000
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu>
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Subject: Re: Wild Cards Question
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Here is what the wild card virus does :-
Of people infected
Kills 90% horribly painfully
9% it inflicts gross deformities of some kind or another on (jokers)
1% it gives amazing powers to, well they can be useless amazing powers :)
these 1% are the aces.
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu)
--You were spectacular, Bob. But not very effective.
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals.
On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Eric Burns wrote:
> I already bugged one of you about the Wild Cards stuff, but
> I have one small question... what's the difference between
> a "Joker" and an "Ace"? I'm trying to follow these discussions
> a little bit and I have next to zero knowledge about the
> series of books. Sorry to be a newbie pain in the neck about
> this, but I'm curious...
>
> -Eric
>
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:54 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:08:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Hero Character Adaption <catdrag@vnet.net&> champion@cyberhighway.net,
Champions Character List <deejay@cu-online.com&>
greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu,
Rob Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu&> sourdust@ix.netcom.com,
robertni@us.ibm.com, teriaca@omnifest.uwm.edu, vances@sympatico.ca,
Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Fantasy
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970619160737.17136M-100000@access1.digex.net>
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FANTASY
(Asta Lenser)
Designers Notes:
Fantasy is a ballet dancer for the American Ballet Theater. She's 5'5"
tall and weighs 110 lbs. She has the power to mesmerize men when she
dances. She works for Kien Phuc as a spy (and his occasion mistress).
he, in return, keeps her supplied with money and cocaine. Fantasy is
quite amoral and very much a hedonist.
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 11 1
Dex 18 24
Con 13 6
Body 11 2
Int 14 4
Ego 13 6
Pre 10 0
Com 16 3
PD 3 1
ED 3 0
Spd 3 2
Rec 5 0
End 26 0
Stun 24 0
Char Total 49
Power Total 94
Total Cost 143
COST POWERS & SKILLS
60 Mind Control: 12d6, Telepathic (+1/4), Single Message: "You want
me" (-1/2), Radius of Effect (x4) (+1 1/2), 0 END, No Range,
Gestures (dancing) (-1/2), Extra Time (phase) (-1/4), Affects men
only (-1/2), Only affects those in line of sight (-1/2)
5 Wealth
3 Contact: Shadow Fist Society 12-
3 Conversation 12-
3 High Society 12-
3 KS: Dancing (DEX) 13-
5 KS: Shadow Fist Society 14-
5 PS: Ballet Dancer (DEX) 15-
7 Seduction 14-
Disadvantages
75 Base
15 Phys: Addicted to Cocaine
10 Psych: Bad Tempered
15 Psych: Greedy
15 Psych: Lecherousness
10 Watched: Shadowfist Society (MoPow) 11-
3 Experience
(Fantasy created by Melinda Snodgrass, character sheet created by Michael
Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:55 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:42:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Wild Cards Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970619101335.25735A-100000@uhunix2>
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On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Richard Scott wrote:
> Here is what the wild card virus does :-
>
>
> Of people infected
>
> Kills 90% horribly painfully
Well, most die pretty horrible, some die quite quickly... Many of the
deaths seem to be from 'partial' power manifestations. Wild Cards Book I
has an excellent story by Roger Zelazny dealing with Croyd Crensen's
experiences onthe streets when the virus struck. People expolding,
burning up, melting into puddles, dissolving etc.
> 9% it inflicts gross deformities of some kind or another on (jokers)
Some cases the deformities are useful - see Peregrine's wings. Also, one
gets 'joker-aces' like Troll, who is 9' tall and green, but also immune to
pistols and can lift several tons.
> 1% it gives amazing powers to, well they can be useless amazing powers :)
> these 1% are the aces.
"Useless amazing powers" are called 'dueces'.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:56 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:09:06 -0500
From: Alex Rojas <rojasa@uthscsa.edu>
Subject: Re: Wild Cards Question
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I thought most of the 1% that didn't die and didn't become jokers became
Dueces? They actually got a weak power (TK just strong enough to move a
penny).
Alex
From: "rscott@hawaii.edu" "Richard Scott"
>Here is what the wild card virus does :-
>
>Of people infected
>
>Kills 90% horribly painfully
>9% it inflicts gross deformities of some kind or another on (jokers)
>1% it gives amazing powers to, well they can be useless amazing powers :)
>these 1% are the aces.
>
>Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu)
>--You were spectacular, Bob. But not very effective.
>South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win
>South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals.
>
>On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Eric Burns wrote:
>
>> I already bugged one of you about the Wild Cards stuff, but
>> I have one small question... what's the difference between
>> a "Joker" and an "Ace"? I'm trying to follow these discussions
>> a little bit and I have next to zero knowledge about the
>> series of books. Sorry to be a newbie pain in the neck about
>> this, but I'm curious...
>>
>> -Eric
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 20:43:57 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:57:59 -0700 (PDT)
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From: sd131@csufresno.edu (Keith Curtis)
Subject: Re: CHAR: Dr. Maxim Travnicek
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At 5:26 PM 6/19/97, you wrote:
>> Note that if Travnicek were to die, Modular Man would probably be
>> destroyed instantly. It is possible, however, that MM's own sentience
>> includes the mental power to keep himself running.
Actually, Maxim Travnicek DID die, just before the destruction of the Rox.
MM was complicit in his death, and continued to function afterward (albeit
at the loss of a leg).
Keith Curtis
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 21:12:29 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:53:18 -0400
From: The THUNDERBIRD <thunder@bconnex.net>
Organization: The Kingdom of Thunder
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Subject: THE HARLEQUIN CHALLENGE (medium long)
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Another member of this list, provided me with my greatest challenge in
character creation, in my twenty years of gaming.
In Short -
Two brothers - One "good", one "not so good".
A variation on the "Hawk and Dove" theme - (DC Comics)
After a misadventure, the "not so good" brother gets himself chased by
the police, and eventually shot, for stealing an ancient mask from a
museum.
He manages to reach the "good" brother, before death takes him.
In a moment of induced insanity, the good brother reacts to the waste of
life, and the "stupid mask" that indirectly caused his brother's death.
The "good" brother decides to jump from a height and kill himself . .
.he jumps . . . the end?
Not the end . . . the "good" brother wakes up, wearing the mask, in a
brightly coloured costume. Investigation leads him to discover that his
dead brother lives on, in side of him, like a disembodied spirit. In
this form, the brothers are "twice as strong, agile, enduring, etc"
They possess the skills and abilities of both brothers, and control of
the body "flip-flops" from one to the other.
In an attempt to remove the mask, the brothers find that it splits down
the middle, and in a flash, another change occurs. Each brother is now
in a single mask, one of "Comedy" and one of "Trajedy". They each have
a physical form, their own martial art skill, and their own powers: the
ability to conjure "props" (such as cream pies and Shakespearian Skulls)
and to create realistic illusions.
The two become "superheroes" the "Comedian and the Thespian", and in
times of great need, the combined power of the Harlequin. They adopt a
single secret identity, since when the mask is off, only the one body
remains.
OKAY - I guess you get the idea.
Here was the challenge, design a single character, that possesses a
range of powers, that splits into two distinct characters, each with
their own powers and limitations.
Basically, Comedian, the "good" brother, has Judo, and the above listed
powers with the limitations of "Only Comedy Props and Illusions" (Selser
bottles, banana peels, neon signs, Merry Go Rounds, etc.) The "not so
good one", Thespian, has a harsher Martial Art, and a limitation for
"dramatic" events (i.e. Bats, storm clouds, swirling capes, and organ
music). Harlequin possessed the powers of both, but each time he
"reformed" thge other brother was in charge of the body, so both were
reluctant to make the change.
My solution, was to build Harlequin as the "main character" with a
Multiform. The Multiform was Comedian, and he had the power of
Duplication with the limitation, 1 Body, Always On. The balance of
points between the three forms was absolute hell. Thespian was built on
a certain amount of points, Comedian the same amount, plus duplication
(strong enough to create the Thespian Body) and the Harliquin had to
have Multiform powerful enough for the Comedian's total points.
(Whew!!!!)
Does anyone out there have a simpler way of creating one individual,
that splits into two unique beings, less powerful than the first?
I'm anxiously awaiting answers . . .
And if I can find my original solution, I will post those stats . . .
And EZ, If you're out there, just thinking about this character again is
reminding me how cool an idea it was, and how frustrating he(they) were
to create!!!
The THUNDERBIRD
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 21:12:41 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:33:19 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: Transparent force walls
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At 06:53 AM 6/19/97 -0500, Fugazi wrote:
>-- [ From: Fugazi * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>
> "A Force Wall can be made transparent to one category of attack by buying
>the entire Force Wall witha +1/2 Power Advantage. Of course, the Force
>Wall's transparent defense should be 0."
>
> This is the line about Force Walls in the rules book that confuses me.
>Okay, so a PD transparent entangle can be shot through without damaging the
>entangle, unless the tangle is specifically targeted, right? However,
>according to this line, a PD transparent Force Wall will go down the minute
>it is targeted, as its "transparent defense should be 0." Even though a PD
>transparent entangle still has its PD def, its just ignored until its
>concentrated on.
> I had originally thought that you can create a Force Wall that cannot be
>destroyed by attacks from one category, if it is bought transparent to that
>category. Sort of a trade off, as the person "caged" by the Force Wall can
>use that category to attack through the wall also. But if it works like an
>entangle, and it can be attacked by that category if the attacker
>specifically focuses on the force wall, then the instant it is hit its going
>down. Which sounds more like a limitation than an advantage to me.
>
> What do you think?
I've always assumed that if a forcewall is "Transparent" to a particular
type of attack, that type of attack will pass right through (either
direction) without affecting the ForceWall in any way...
Sort of like the FW being "desolid" to that attack.... If you want to
build a Forcewall that you can shoot through, but it will stop the same
attack from outside, buy your attack with Indirect (Starts at outside of
Forcewall)
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 21:12:46 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:25:29 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: Power Question - Reply
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At 05:53 PM 6/18/97 -0500, flacksd@evron.com wrote:
>There is a character called 'Mr. Nobody' in the Allies supplement. This
>would be a good template for the duplicate. Mr. Nobody can
>shapechange into any animal (if he makes his skill roll). He has
>shapeshift, 0 end, persistant [to become the animal]. A 100 point power
>pool, control cost reduced by skill roll, extra time full phase, appropriate
>animal powers only (-1/2) [to get the animal's abilities]. He also had a 60
>pt Multipower with 6lv Growth and 6 lv shrinking in ultra slots [to adjust
>his size]. He also had an AID vs multiple characteristics, only for
>appropriate animal stats (-1/2) fades 5/day (i think?). [To adjust his
>statistics. You could simply buy stats from the power pool.]
>
>Daniel Flacks
>dflacks@evron.com
>
Geez, why didn't you post this when I started the "That (@$&;
SHapeshifter" thread :)
In case you don't remember, person in my game wanted the ability to
become any natural animal... was trying to figure out how to do it, gave it
up as too annoying... ended that campaign as a result.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 21:43:53 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:46:39 -0400
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net>
Subject: Re: Stupid Mind Tricks
In-Reply-To: <199706181633.MAA20661@usmcug.usm.maine.edu>
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At 12:33 PM 6/18/97 -0400, Eric Burns wrote:
>Reincarnation - everytime the character dies he comes back,
>but somehow different. This could either be like The Doctor,
>who sort of reincarnates in place,
I don't know any GM who would allow this but:
Transform, Major, Dead self into new hero, 4d6, Cumulative (+1/2),
Persistent (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Invisible Power Effects(+1),
Trigger (+1/4), Always On (-1/2), 2-3 Charges (How much body do you have?
-1 1/2 - -1 1/4).
Only 75 Real points. 225 AP.
For additional point savings put in your armor (OIF: 64 CP), or an
Independent, Focus (IIF) in a Fantasy Genre (43 CP).
Persistent and Uncontrolled allows the power to work after the character is
dead. Invisible Power Effects prevents the power from being detectable.
If you don't care about someone suppressing your reincarnation, you can
save ~20 real points.
>or the character's life
>essense could fuse with someone else's somewhere in the
>world (the hero group would get a phone call a week or so
>after the character's death from some guy in Belgium, claiming
>to be the killed hero).
Okay, same as above, except it cannot be Cumulative. (Course that allows
it to be 1 Charge.) It also has to target a living being, kinda
non-heroic, ya know.
> I like the latter idea better because
>it is more interesting. The character would lose all the
>knowledge that his previous host had, but gain all the knowledge
>that the new host has. He would also keep a certain amount
>of core knowledge and abilities (including some powers).
This sounds more like the spirit rules. Check them out in Hero Almanac #1.
From ???@??? Thu Jun 19 22:33:54 1997
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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:12:38 -0400
From: Dave Thompson <ezadd@bconnex.net>
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Subject: re:THE HARLEQUIN CHALLENGE (medium long)
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THUNDERBIRD
> And EZ, If you're out there, just thinking about this character again is
> reminding me how cool an idea it was, and how frustrating he(they) were
> to create!!!
Glad to make your life hell!! *BG* I have this other idea for a
character...
EZ
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:46 1997
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Code vs Killing
References: <1.5.4.16.19970620123502.25e706a2@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "H" == HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> writes:
H> not nescisarily- it could be a subconcious compulsion, like hypnotic
H> programming- anything not "physical", or which has an ego-type resist,
H> is "psycoloical".
Regardless of *why* the character has the disadvantage or how it affects
him, he has it, and it means that he will chose not to use lethal force.
He may not want to make that choice but he will make it. He must because
he has that disadvantage. That is why it is a disadvantage: it restricts
what he can do in certain situations.
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: THE HARLEQUIN CHALLENGE (medium long)
References: <33A9720E.399B@bconnex.net>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TT" == The THUNDERBIRD <thunder@bconnex.net> writes:
TT> Another member of this list, provided me with my greatest challenge in
TT> character creation, in my twenty years of gaming.
A classic use of Duplication. You might want to look a the writup of
"Gemeni" in "The Zodiac Conspiracy" book if you can find it.
Powers that may only be used while duplicated or combined is generally a
- -1/2 to -1 limitation, depending on how often (or not) they are combined.
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From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:49 1997
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:56:42 -0500
Subject: RE: That @$& Shapeshifter
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earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us wrote (in response to my thoughts on the
Lazy Dragon Wildcard power question)
> Geez, why didn't you post this when I started the "That (@$&;
>SHapeshifter" thread :)
> In case you don't remember, person in my game wanted the ability to
>become any natural animal... was trying to figure out how to do it, gave
>it up as too annoying... ended that campaign as a result.
I just joined the list. I've only been here for a month, so I missed your
shapeshifter question. I will be posting some questions of my own soon,
most of which have probably already been answered in the past.
Daniel Flacks
dflacks@evron.com
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:55 1997
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From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Transparent force walls
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At 06:53 AM 6/19/97 -0500, Fugazi wrote:
> "A Force Wall can be made transparent to one category of attack by buying
>the entire Force Wall witha +1/2 Power Advantage. Of course, the Force
>Wall's transparent defense should be 0."
>
> This is the line about Force Walls in the rules book that confuses me.
>Okay, so a PD transparent entangle can be shot through without damaging the
>entangle, unless the tangle is specifically targeted, right? However,
>according to this line, a PD transparent Force Wall will go down the minute
>it is targeted, as its "transparent defense should be 0." Even though a PD
>transparent entangle still has its PD def, its just ignored until its
>concentrated on.
> I had originally thought that you can create a Force Wall that cannot be
>destroyed by attacks from one category, if it is bought transparent to that
>category. Sort of a trade off, as the person "caged" by the Force Wall can
>use that category to attack through the wall also. But if it works like an
>entangle, and it can be attacked by that category if the attacker
>specifically focuses on the force wall, then the instant it is hit its going
>down. Which sounds more like a limitation than an advantage to me.
These are two different types of Transparent. Notice that the cost for
the two Advantages is different: Transparent Entangle, which must be
specifically targeted to be damaged, is +1/2 vs all attacks, while
Transparent Force Wall, which cannot be targeted, is +1/2 vs either energy
or physical.
And it's not totally without precedence to apply one version of
Transparent to the other Power. The most obvious use of this is in The
Ultimate Mentalist, where Mental Paralysis is created in part by making
Entangle Transparent to Energy Attacks in the Force Wall manner (also
transferring its vulnerability to Physical Attacks over to Mental Attacks).
I'm sure its been done elsewhere as well, and I might even allow such a
thing in my own campaign if the description of the Power made adequate sense.
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:56 1997
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Something new to talk about...
I'm in the beginning stages of a working up a new scenario and have come
across a couple of things that I could use suggestions from the list
for.
The scenario involves a group of super powered kids - ages range from 11
to 14 - who have begun their own little crime spree. Nothing really
'criminal' - just the kinds of things that kids would do... Hopefully
this will introduce some interesting situations into the game (like how
long will it take the PCs to figure out that the crimes are being
commited by kids? And just how WILL they try to apprehend the kids
without turning public opinion against them?)
Now the things I'd like some suggestions on:
1. Just what kinds of crimes WOULD a bunch of kids commit? I've thought
of the obvious, like trashing the school, and ripping off issue #1 of
Spawn from the local comic shop.. but any other suggestions??
2. I need some names... the kinds of slightly corny names that a group
of kids would give themselves. I havent designed the kids themselves
yet.. I kind of wanted to come up with concepts and names for them. One
theme I want to stick to is kind of the 'Legion of Super Heroes' thing -
they each only have 1 basic power and most have NO defenses (which will
make it REALLY tough for the PCs to capture them without injuring
them... 'Capt Red-White-N-Blue, just how DO you explain putting that
little girl in the hospital??')
3. How would the law handle superpowered criminal kids? It's not like
you can just stick them in juvie hall.. but you can't stick them in
Stronghold EITHER...
thanks in advance for the help...
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:58 1997
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:18:16 -0400 (EDT)
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cc: catdrag@vnet.net, champion@cyberhighway.net, deejay@cu-online.com,
greenlucifer@geocities.com, jdriscol@vt.edu,
mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu, sourdust@ix.netcom.com,
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Subject: Re: CHAR: Hiram Worchester
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Hmmmn, well I think there are just a few changes that should be made. First,
his EB, RKA and TK should all be bought with the Indirect advantage, after
all he is manipulating gravity. Also he needs a Detect: Gravity Waves:
Targetting Sense because he can sense the play of gravity waves (when he
contemplates killing Fortunato when the pimp reports the death of Hiram's
friend at the hands of the Alchemist he does this). Als he should have a
several dice HA for when he makes his fist weigh several tons just before it
strikes someone (mentioned as a tactic he used during his brief career as a
costumed crime-fighter).
Carter Humphrey BeerCarboy@AOL.com
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:59 1997
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:49:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Super Kids
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On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Todd Hanson wrote:
> Now the things I'd like some suggestions on:
>
> 1. Just what kinds of crimes WOULD a bunch of kids commit? I've thought
> of the obvious, like trashing the school, and ripping off issue #1 of
> Spawn from the local comic shop.. but any other suggestions??
I think it would depend upon the powers. If I had invisibility when I was
11-14, I probably would have been severly tempted to make off with all the
gaming books, modules and minatures I could carry. Also, sneaking into
the movies, amusments parks etc.
I could imagine a kid with super strngth trying to steal his own video
game and put it in the basement. And any kid who could fly could get into
more trouble that you can possibly imagine.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:20:00 1997
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:24:31 +0000
From: Michael Gillespie <mgill@mychoice.net>
Subject: 0 END vs. Uses
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I remember a few weeks back, someone (sorry, don't remember who) was
talking about why anyone would get more than 64 uses (or 250 uses for
autofire) when Zero END is cheaper.
I had to agree, and things like this bug the heck out of me (it's an
incurable mental condition), when you can buy things two different ways
with the same point cost, but one of these is in all ways superior. I
don't mind it if there is a difference where one is occasionally more
useful (such as Invisibility vs. Images limited to making things "not
there"), so I tried to think of some minor advantages to taking uses over
reduced END.
Unfortunately, all I could come up with are limitations. I decided that in
my campaign, all powers through charges have the following limits "built
in", receiving no limit for them:
Must be used at full power
Can't be spread
Can't be pushed
Can't be pulled (as in pulling a punch)
Each of these are pretty minor, obviously none of them taken alone is worth
a limitation (maybe a -1/8 in my campaign), although all together they'd be
worth at least -1/4 on powers that they could all apply to. I didn't want
to have to say that all guns and similar conceptions had to tack on this
limit, so I said it's just part of charges.
But all this just makes the difference between 0 END and 64 charges even
worse. Can anyone think of any advantages (no matter how minor) that could
justify putting 64 uses (or more) on a power instead of 0 END?
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:20:02 1997
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From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Re: Super Kids
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:44:40 -0400
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X-Ray vision or Clairvoyance: Peeping Tom
Telepathy: Mental Peeping Tom, blackmail
Mind control: Think of Billy Mumy in the Twilight Zone, or Empath at any
time
Telekinesis: Anyone ever see Zapped or Modern Problems?
Desolid, Teleport, Shapeshift, Shrinking: Unstoppable tresspassing
Look for back issues of Marvel's New Universe's D.P.7. Around issues
15-20 or so, some of the teenagers form a gang, the DDTeens.
Dave Mattingly
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:20:03 1997
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From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
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Subject: Super Kids
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:04:02 -0400 (EDT)
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> Something new to talk about...
>
> 1. Just what kinds of crimes WOULD a bunch of kids commit? I've thought
> of the obvious, like trashing the school, and ripping off issue #1 of
> Spawn from the local comic shop.. but any other suggestions??
>
A big moustache on the Statue of Liberty? Painting the White House pink?
I'm thinking pranks (but financially costly pranks).
> 2. I need some names... the kinds of slightly corny names that a group
> of kids would give themselves. I havent designed the kids themselves
> yet.. I kind of wanted to come up with concepts and names for them. One
> theme I want to stick to is kind of the 'Legion of Super Heroes' thing -
> they each only have 1 basic power and most have NO defenses (which will
> make it REALLY tough for the PCs to capture them without injuring
> them... 'Capt Red-White-N-Blue, just how DO you explain putting that
> little girl in the hospital??')
>
Heavy Hitter - dressed in a baseball uniform. has 0 range telekinesis
focused through a baseball bat. Might also be called "Bat Boy".
Leapin' Lizard - looks like lil' orphin annie and can jump really high.
green costume in a lizard motif.
Simon Says - mind control with the limitation that he must do whatever
he commands other people to do. (and say "Simon says" of course!)
Liliputian Lass - can shrink down to 6" high (a la gulliver's travels)
Giggle Girl - an area effect power to make everyone drop to the ground
giggling.
Kid Kong - can change into a small gorilla with all the mighty powers
a 3' tall gorilla would possess.
Elastic Lad - stretching powers.
Beam-Me-Up Boy - teleportation powers.
Tag - Speedster (as in "you're it")
Hide and Seek - a brother and sister combo: one with invisibility, the
other with clairavoyance.
Miss Anne Thrope - the team's ringleader, their 4th grade teacher. she
has no powers, except to manipulate the minds of young children to EVIL!
um... i think i just got carried away....
-Eric
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:20:04 1997
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:51:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Rothman <drothman@bah.com>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: 0 END vs. Uses
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970620142431.0068c684@mychoice.net>
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On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Michael Gillespie wrote:
> I remember a few weeks back, someone (sorry, don't remember who) was
> talking about why anyone would get more than 64 uses (or 250 uses for
> autofire) when Zero END is cheaper.
>
> I had to agree, and things like this bug the heck out of me (it's an
> incurable mental condition), when you can buy things two different ways
> with the same point cost, but one of these is in all ways superior. I
> don't mind it if there is a difference where one is occasionally more
> useful (such as Invisibility vs. Images limited to making things "not
> there"), so I tried to think of some minor advantages to taking uses over
> reduced END.
>
> Unfortunately, all I could come up with are limitations. I decided that in
> my campaign, all powers through charges have the following limits "built
> in", receiving no limit for them:
> Must be used at full power
> Can't be spread
> Can't be pushed
> Can't be pulled (as in pulling a punch)
>
> Each of these are pretty minor, obviously none of them taken alone is worth
> a limitation (maybe a -1/8 in my campaign), although all together they'd be
> worth at least -1/4 on powers that they could all apply to. I didn't want
> to have to say that all guns and similar conceptions had to tack on this
> limit, so I said it's just part of charges.
>
> But all this just makes the difference between 0 END and 64 charges even
> worse. Can anyone think of any advantages (no matter how minor) that could
> justify putting 64 uses (or more) on a power instead of 0 END?
>
>
Character Concept, Character Concept, Character Concept.
grenade-like weapons may get indirect for free.
The physical charges themselves (if applicable) may have intrinsic use
(i.e. be good power sources, valuable trade items, etc.)
by SFX they may be interchangable for several powers (c.f. End Bat +1/4 adv)
Charged items can be disabled (i.e. bad guy takes away your clip, not your
gun - can't be done with 0-end gun). May cause worthwhile plot points.
daniel
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:20:06 1997
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From: Robert Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu>
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References: <1.5.4.16.19970620123309.27d7d012@topaz.cqu.edu.au&> <33AA4289.3DA8@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:53:41 (-0600)
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On Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:42:49 -0700,
"Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com> wrote about Re: Related subject::
> HAPPYELF!!! sez;
>
> > or you never know, they could flourish!! roleplaying mysteries and
> > simmilar stuff isn't about the players having the right skills so
> > the gm can just write "roll an X roll here" into the story, y'know. . . .
> >
> > a good roleplayer is not nescesariliy the one who bought all the relevant skills:
> > this is just another type of power-playing: having all the skills and demanding
> > rolls on everything in the plot.
>
> Good point; however, a reasonably safe generality to be made here is
> that most 'powergamers' are much more likely not to have the more
> esoteric roleplaying skills as strongly as the less point-obsessive
> types. This is certainly not universally true, but often a safe
> assumption. I presume that if the case were otherwise, the problem
> would be less pronounced in the first place.
True, but I've also seen players make claims about their characters under the
pretence of roleplaying, but not willing to back it up with the skills. An
example what a character who was supposed to be the best dancer in town. An
the GM agreed to this. Her skill was only a 14- compared with another
chaaracter with a Performance Skill of 21- and a dance skill of 17-. Good
roleplaying is one thing, but don't play something you don't have. Don't call
yourself a detective if you have only Deduction, you should fork out the
points to have several other skills to back it up, like Shadowing, Streetwise,
and Conversation.
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:20:08 1997
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Subject: Re: Super Kids
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> From: Eric Burns <burns@usmcug.usm.maine.edu>
> Subject: Super Kids
> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:04:02 -0400 (EDT)
> To: champ-l@omg.org
> > Something new to talk about...
> >
> Simon Says - mind control with the limitation that he must do whatever
> he commands other people to do. (and say "Simon says" of course!)
Hopefully, he gives up his evil(?) ways before he reaches high
school. Can you imagine a teenage boy with this power? "Go to the
Clairmont Hotel, enter room 210, and have a wild night of sex with
the first person you see in the room." Could get ugly.
Filksinger
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:18:55 1997
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:41:02 -0700
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
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> > a good roleplayer is not nescesariliy the one who bought all the relevant skills:
> > this is just another type of power-playing: having all the skills and demanding
> > rolls on everything in the plot.
>
> Good point; however, a reasonably safe generality to be made here is
> that most 'powergamers' are much more likely not to have the more
> esoteric roleplaying skills as strongly as the less point-obsessive
> types. This is certainly not universally true, but often a safe
> assumption. I presume that if the case were otherwise, the problem
> would be less pronounced in the first place.
>
not nesecarily- it is a matter of how likely a given gm is to simply ascribe a
steryotypedue to someone's character- hence they decide super tough RPDR guy is
a power-player, while another character may have say. . skads of telepathy,
but may have just phrased their character outline more "maturely"- both (or
neither) may be power-players, depending on the attitude they cop from
the gm- it's up to the gm to work with the playr's concept, as much as the other way
round. ..
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
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At 12:26 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>On 6/15/97 10:16 AM, Earl Kwallek (earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us) Said:
>
>[snippage on characters generated by the patented Abuse-A-Matic Hero
>Generator]
>
>> In short, these players designed a bunch of Combat-Killer-Death-Machines
>>rather than anything resembling real people... but then that seems to be
>>normal for the games I have run/played in....
>> Oh well....
>
>So throw them into a mystery, or a diplomatic situation. Watch 'em
>squirm. Tell them that these kinds of plots are common, and they can redo
>their characters now, if they want, or never.
>
or you never know, they could flourish!! roleplaying mysteries and
simmilar stuff isn't about the players having the right skills so
the gm can just write "roll an X roll here" into the story, y'know. . . .
a good roleplayer is not nescesariliy the one who bought all the relevant skills:
this is just another type of power-playing: having all the skills and demanding
rolls on everything in the plot.
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:35 1997
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Code vs Killing
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A
>B> But that's all mechanics, what does the Code vs. Killing mean for an
>B> individual character.
>
>It means that the character will consciously and actively avoid the use of
>lethal force.
>
not nescisarily- it could be a subconcious compulsion, like hypnotic programming-
anything not "physical", or which has an ego-type resist, is "psycoloical".
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:36 1997
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At 12:13 AM 6/16/97 +0000, you wrote:
>On Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:02:48 -0500, Earl Kwallek wrote:
>
>>At 12:42 PM 6/15/97 +1000, HAPPYELF wrote:
>>>
>>>>>so? who says bricks have to be slow???
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No one- but I have a minor objection to the team Brick being the FASTEST
>>>>member of the party (I dug up the CHar-Recs for that game)
>>>> The brick Had: DEX 33, SPD 8, and 90 STR as well as 30" of Flight
>>>>
>>>so??? why do we have to chuck this guy in s steryotype he obviously
>>doesn't fit??
>>
>> You are either being deliberately dense here, or missing my point
>>entirely...
>>I have a problem with characters that "Have it all" this guy had the best
>>SPD, highest attack (in dice), Best defenses, and second highest DEX/CV in
>>the game.
>>Now do you understand my objection?
>
><subtle hint coming up :}>
>
>Right, so what was the guy's ECV?
>
>
and what about his power defence?
flash defence?
dnpc's??
how about an evil twin fer the guy??
or am i still being dense???
*lol*
:->~
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:37 1997
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Urban Myth group
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how about. . . .razor-waterslide man!!!
At 02:29 AM 6/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Let's see here... the mysterious street gang that materializes whenever
>a motorist blinks thir high beams, destroying the car and killing
>the occupants.
> A related gang has several unnaturally skinny members who like to hide
>under cars and wait to stab the drivers in the ankle with a syrineful
>of knockout drugs.
> Or, for an old-fashioned approach, a bunch who have the ability to hide
>razor blades in apples that children are about to eat.
>
> Hurm. I suppose all of those could be generated by a single evil mage
>with an odd sense of humor and an addiction to alt.folklore.urban.
>In which case, he probably likes to sling around "Transform: Glass into
>Flowing Glass". :-)
> Daniel Pawtowski
>dpawtows@vt.edu
>
>
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:38 1997
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Urban Myth group
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how about. . .. a tank that gets 1000 miles to the gallon?? or a fleet
of stripped down army surpless jeeps bought for $20 each??
At 01:39 AM 6/18/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Patrick Barden wrote:
>>
>> I am looking to create an NPC team of villians based on urban myths.
>>
>> The only one I have so far is:
>> Candyman
>> A drug dealer who uses mirrors to terrorize his victims and opponents. He
>> also maintains a personal dimension behind the mirrors. He is obsessed with
>> (ie. will be stalking) some of the female members of the hero team.
>
> There's always the good ol' Boogeyman who has incredible stealth,
>possibly invisibility or camoflauge (you never know where he's coming
>from), and who knows what kind of attack once he 'get's ya'.
>
> And of course, every town anywhere has a "house". Some house or place
>that is rumored to have any various kinds of spooky/weird/macabre stuff
>going on inside it. Could be their HQ (Who really wants to attack the
>home front then?), or it could be an actual member of the team, though
>the logistics of this (some kind of sentience occupying whatever
>house/place that is most convenient?) could be an incredible
>headache....
>
>--
> -Capt. Spith
> Savior of Humanity
> Secular Messiah
>
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:40 1997
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Subject: House Rules!(Was:THE HARLEQUIN CHALLENGE)[LONG]
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The THUNDERBIRD wrote:
>
> Another member of this list, provided me with my greatest challenge in
> character creation, in my twenty years of gaming.
>
> In Short -
> Two brothers - One "good", one "not so good".
<Origin Story edited....>
> Not the end . . . the "good" brother wakes up, wearing the mask, in a
> brightly coloured costume. Investigation leads him to discover that his
> dead brother lives on, in side of him, like a disembodied spirit. In
> this form, the brothers are "twice as strong, agile, enduring, etc"
> They possess the skills and abilities of both brothers, and control of
> the body "flip-flops" from one to the other.
>
> In an attempt to remove the mask, the brothers find that it splits down
> the middle, and in a flash, another change occurs. Each brother is now
> in a single mask, one of "Comedy" and one of "Trajedy". They each have
> a physical form, their own martial art skill, and their own powers: the
> ability to conjure "props" (such as cream pies and Shakespearian Skulls)
> and to create realistic illusions.
>
> The two become "superheroes" the "Comedian and the Thespian", and in
> times of great need, the combined power of the Harlequin. They adopt a
> single secret identity, since when the mask is off, only the one body
> remains.
This is a perfect situation for the implementation of the warped way
I've rewritten Duplication and Multiform in my own House Rules. Nothing
here will help you if you're looking for a 'legitimate' solution, but
here goes....
In my games, Duplication and Multiform each have a cost of 1 point
per five of the aternate form(s) cost, for all forms purchased, first
and all subsequent. For Duplication, there is another option, though;
For 'duplicates' which are different from the base character, the cost
is 2 per 5 - effectively the cost of duplication and Multiform
together. Thus the cost of two 'duplicates' that have different
powers/skills than the base form would be 2/5 of the appropriate
character costs for each, or effectively 4/5 of the cost of one
character. Rather spendy, but I'm not done. Since the 'base character'
is lost during duplication, the total duplication cost is given a -1/2
limitation (reducing the cost by 1/3 to reflect losing one third of the
characters paid for by purchasing two duplicates[the general application
being a limitation of 1/x applied to the cost for x duplicates when the
'base' form is lost]), resulting in a grand total of a cost of 8/15 of
the point total of one of the duplicates to give a character who has his
own powers, then splits into two different halves, each less powerful
than the base.
With these costs, you could (for example) have the two thespians
built on 200 points each, which would cost a total of 107 points. If
Harlequin was built on 350, this would leave 243 points for his own
powers. The Duplication cost could also be reduced by a focus or Hero
ID limitation if needed.
Alternately....
Reading through the BBB's writeup, it is actually unclear as to how
identical duplicates actually have to be; the example mentions a
250-point character with a 100-point 'duplicate'. Thus, here is a much
more legal possibility;
Build Harlequin fully as needed, then buy one (1) duplicate at the
listed cost of 2/5 of the duplicate's point total. From what I read of
your origin, it sounds as if each of the three forms has effectively
identical powers, but varying SFX, so the duplicate could be built as
either the Comedian or the Thespian, and the Harlequin would put a
limitation on all his powers and Characteristics and such to reduce them
to the duplicate's level when duplicated. (In pre-4th edition CHAMPS, I
believe this was a -1/4 limitation). I would call the varying SFX
between all the forms merely a free special effect of the concept, since
the individual characters don't vary their individual effects. With
this method, the cost would only be for a singlre duplicate, with
partial limitations on most of the powers of the base, and a little
fudging with SFX.
*Whewh* Any help? Or did I simply ramble too much?
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:42 1997
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HAPPYELF!!! sez;
> or you never know, they could flourish!! roleplaying mysteries and
> simmilar stuff isn't about the players having the right skills so
> the gm can just write "roll an X roll here" into the story, y'know. . . .
>
> a good roleplayer is not nescesariliy the one who bought all the relevant skills:
> this is just another type of power-playing: having all the skills and demanding
> rolls on everything in the plot.
Good point; however, a reasonably safe generality to be made here is
that most 'powergamers' are much more likely not to have the more
esoteric roleplaying skills as strongly as the less point-obsessive
types. This is certainly not universally true, but often a safe
assumption. I presume that if the case were otherwise, the problem
would be less pronounced in the first place.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:43 1997
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Stupid Mind Tricks
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At 03:15 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi Folks,
>I just discovered Champions recently, and am so far very impressed.
>It seems like almost any power is possible to build. I'm stumped
>on a couple of psionic powers, though:
>-
>Psionic Surgery - A lengthy process (can take as long as a day or two
>for severe changes, less time for minor ones) where the target's per-
>sonality is reshaped to to psychic's whim. This can add or remove
>psychological disadvantages, memories, etc. The effects can be
>reversed by a friendly telepath or psychotherepist, given enough
>rehab time.
>
i'd diothis with just a transform. saves time, and you could even have the 'dice' of transform applied as a psyc lim (or other limitation, depending on special effect)
so say u get 20 total points of major transform, u give the character a 20 pt psyc lim!!!
From ???@??? Fri Jun 20 21:19:44 1997
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From: S McGinness <smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 97 09:50:59 GMT
Message-Id: <21543.9706200950@csm.exeter.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: THE HARLEQUIN CHALLENGE
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The THUNDERBIRD <thunder@net.bconnex>
>My solution, was to build Harlequin as the "main character" with a
>Multiform. The Multiform was Comedian, and he had the power of
>Duplication with the limitation, 1 Body, Always On. The balance of
>points between the three forms was absolute hell. Thespian was built on
>a certain amount of points, Comedian the same amount, plus duplication
>(strong enough to create the Thespian Body) and the Harliquin had to
>have Multiform powerful enough for the Comedian's total points.
>(Whew!!!!)
I'm going to suggest that you simply use duplication.....
It should be possible to put the powers in each duplicate with
the limitation [only usable in one duplicate form at a time -??]
Thus you get the unduplicated form (Harlequin) where all of
the powers work. When duplicated then one set of powers are
off limits, and one set of disads will be utilised in one
duplicate. the other set of powers and the second set of
disads will be utilised in the other.
I wouldn't worry about how to swap the disads for Harlequin,
I'd just do it as a special effect. As long as the Harlequin
always had enough disads to balance his points then there
should be balance.
Does that work??
Stephen
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:04 1997
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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:44:04 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
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Subject: Re: Super Kids
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> > Simon Says - mind control with the limitation that he must do whatever
> > he commands other people to do. (and say "Simon says" of course!)
>
> Hopefully, he gives up his evil(?) ways before he reaches high
> school. Can you imagine a teenage boy with this power? "Go to the
> Clairmont Hotel, enter room 210, and have a wild night of sex with
> the first person you see in the room." Could get ugly.
You didn't say "Simon Says...."
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:05 1997
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From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: Super Kids
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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>
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At 03:49 PM 6/20/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Todd Hanson wrote:
>
>> Now the things I'd like some suggestions on:
>>
>> 1. Just what kinds of crimes WOULD a bunch of kids commit? I've thought
>> of the obvious, like trashing the school, and ripping off issue #1 of
>> Spawn from the local comic shop.. but any other suggestions??
>
>I think it would depend upon the powers. If I had invisibility when I was
>11-14, I probably would have been severly tempted to make off with all the
>gaming books, modules and minatures I could carry. Also, sneaking into
>the movies, amusments parks etc.
>
I suspect Invisible Boy would be spending a lot of time sneaking into girl's
locker rooms...
>I could imagine a kid with super strngth trying to steal his own video
>game and put it in the basement. And any kid who could fly could get into
>more trouble that you can possibly imagine.
>
The Mind Controller would spend use his powers to get other kids (and
eventually adults) to give him/her things (try pinning that sown in a court)
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:06 1997
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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:58:09 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Super Kids
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At 02:36 PM 6/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Something new to talk about...
>
>I'm in the beginning stages of a working up a new scenario and have come
>across a couple of things that I could use suggestions from the list
>for.
>
>The scenario involves a group of super powered kids - ages range from 11
>to 14 - who have begun their own little crime spree. Nothing really
>'criminal' - just the kinds of things that kids would do... Hopefully
>this will introduce some interesting situations into the game (like how
>long will it take the PCs to figure out that the crimes are being
>commited by kids? And just how WILL they try to apprehend the kids
>without turning public opinion against them?)
>
i had a simmilar, though more menacing group. they were each mutants, led
by a powerful teenage telepath, who did whatever the hell they wanted and then
pleaded 'victim of society' at trial- plus litle telepathic pushes at the judge,
so they were always let off.
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:07 1997
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
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>True, but I've also seen players make claims about their characters under the
>pretence of roleplaying, but not willing to back it up with the skills. An
>example what a character who was supposed to be the best dancer in town. An
>the GM agreed to this. Her skill was only a 14- compared with another
>chaaracter with a Performance Skill of 21- and a dance skill of 17-. Good
>roleplaying is one thing, but don't play something you don't have. Don't call
>yourself a detective if you have only Deduction, you should fork out the
>points to have several other skills to back it up, like Shadowing, Streetwise,
>and Conversation.
>
>
but that's not roleplaying!! that's character conception and skills!! who was roleplaying a dancer better? personality wise??
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:09 1997
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Subject: Re: Super Kids
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>
>> Simon Says - mind control with the limitation that he must do
>whatever
>> he commands other people to do. (and say "Simon says" of course!)
>
>Hopefully, he gives up his evil(?) ways before he reaches high
>school. Can you imagine a teenage boy with this power? "Go to the
>Clairmont Hotel, enter room 210, and have a wild night of sex with
>the first person you see in the room." Could get ugly.
>
Knowing his luck, the cleaning lady (60 years old) would just be
finishing up as he walked in ;-{
David W Toomey
dwtoomey@juno.com
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:10 1997
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From: The Nez Master <nez@thepoint.net>
Subject: Re: Super Kids
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>Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:31:12
>To: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
>From: The Nez Master <nez@thepoint.net>
>Subject: Re: Super Kids
>
>At 02:36 PM 6/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>Something new to talk about...
>>
>>I'm in the beginning stages of a working up a new scenario and have come
>>across a couple of things that I could use suggestions from the list
>>for.
>>
>>The scenario involves a group of super powered kids - ages range from 11
>>to 14 - who have begun their own little crime spree. Nothing really
>>'criminal' - just the kinds of things that kids would do... Hopefully
>>this will introduce some interesting situations into the game (like how
>>long will it take the PCs to figure out that the crimes are being
>>commited by kids? And just how WILL they try to apprehend the kids
>>without turning public opinion against them?)
>>
>>Now the things I'd like some suggestions on:
>>
>>1. Just what kinds of crimes WOULD a bunch of kids commit? I've thought
>>of the obvious, like trashing the school, and ripping off issue #1 of
>>Spawn from the local comic shop.. but any other suggestions??
>>
>
>My game is probably a shade darker than yours, but I did add yet another
twist. Basically the group of superpowered kids was trying to gain revenge
for the abuse that had been perpetrated on them, by abusive parents/foster
parents/ and the system that put them their. THe kids crimes centered around
attacking the system, the government, individual foster agencies, and the like.
>So of course the government was trying to capture them quietly, so my group
>made as much noise as possible.
>
>
>>2. I need some names... the kinds of slightly corny names that a group
>>of kids would give themselves. I havent designed the kids themselves
>>yet.. I kind of wanted to come up with concepts and names for them. One
>>theme I want to stick to is kind of the 'Legion of Super Heroes' thing -
>>they each only have 1 basic power and most have NO defenses (which will
>>make it REALLY tough for the PCs to capture them without injuring
>>them... 'Capt Red-White-N-Blue, just how DO you explain putting that
>>little girl in the hospital??')
>
>Well, my kids won't fit here. They were pretty tough, which made it
amusing because the group basically wouldn't touch them. (Two members have
protective of kids as disads.) Rainbow, controlling light and color is the
team leader. Shes an agressive teenager, full of hate. Micky and Red are two
teenage boys who follow her for more reasons of hormone than anything,
though both have their axes to grind against the system. Micky is a tough
street kid, with 'powers of persuasion' (read mind control, very subtly
used). Red was russian, his father was killed in a trip to the states, and
he ended up in US homes, unadoptable because of his heritage. Red is
actually a hanger on, who in the course of their first adventure steals some
powered armor. (It's the story I used to get the group involved.)
>Lucy is a 10 year old healer, who is following simply because she thinks if
she doesn't she'll get killed, and she really admires all the teens who have
accepted her. And benny, well benny is only 3. His powers are incredible,
but of course, he's three. Usually he occupies a battle by wondering what's
going on, and if he sees an attack on one of his friends, he unleashes with
one huge tantrum attack of disintigration or something, to make the bad
people go away.
>Benny has a teddy bear that he bestowed with life by sheer will power.
(follower).
>Benny is the most dangerous member of the group, and the easiest to reason
with if the party does not mean him harm. Basically, if you mean well, you
approach him like you would any three year old you want to trust you. If
not, well, he'll turn you into a newt.
>
>>
>>3. How would the law handle superpowered criminal kids? It's not like
>>you can just stick them in juvie hall.. but you can't stick them in
>>Stronghold EITHER...
>
>Better yet, how do you handle superpowered kids that the government would
like to make disapear, but that only works if your willing to let your
government operate in shades of grey.
>
>>
>>thanks in advance for the help...
>>
>>
>>Todd
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
>> BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>
>
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:12 1997
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From: filkhero@pop.netaddress.usa.net
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:53:14 +0000
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Subject: PBEM
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I have been considering running a PBEM game, but I have never done so
before. Does anyone know where I can find good information on running
such a game, rather than web pages about a particular game? I am
particularly interested in ideas about how to handle Hero's already
slow combat system when it might be a week before someone tells me
their move. Any ideas?
Filksinger
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:13 1997
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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:46:34 -0700
From: "happyelf!!!!" <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
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filkhero@pop.netaddress.com wrote:
>
> I have been considering running a PBEM game, but I have never done so
> before. Does anyone know where I can find good information on running
> such a game, rather than web pages about a particular game? I am
> particularly interested in ideas about how to handle Hero's already
> slow combat system when it might be a week before someone tells me
> their move. Any ideas?
>
> Filksinger
hero combat should always be estimated across email. just stick to
action-defence, and make shure the fast ones go first and most often.
When, in about a YEAR at this rate, i get my own possible pbem up, i will
be useing a short subtext system- only one line of it per action/paragraph,
and working from general combat estimates for the rest. I would also advise
you look to IRc, or maybe one of those html-based chat thingies- i find
cutting and pasting is easier in that medium.
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:14 1997
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Subject: Re: Related subject:
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:51:30 (-0600)
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On Sat, 21 Jun 1997 14:00:12 +1000,
HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> wrote about Re: Related subject::
> >True, but I've also seen players make claims about their characters under
> the
> >pretence of roleplaying, but not willing to back it up with the skills. An
> >example what a character who was supposed to be the best dancer in town.
> An
> >the GM agreed to this. Her skill was only a 14- compared with another
> >chaaracter with a Performance Skill of 21- and a dance skill of 17-. Good
> >roleplaying is one thing, but don't play something you don't have. Don't
> call
> >yourself a detective if you have only Deduction, you should fork out the
> >points to have several other skills to back it up, like Shadowing,
> Streetwise,
> >and Conversation.
> >
> >
>
> but that's not roleplaying!! that's character conception and skills!! who
> was roleplaying a dancer better? personality wise??
That was debateable, but no matter what one character did, they allways
lost when they crossed over to the other's speciality. The dancer and the
singer were just one example. If the characters were playing the their characters the GM wanted them to, they could do no wrong. It didn't matter
what they had down on their character sheet. It was even worse with games
other than Champions, (like anything by RTG). Where one particular player's
characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The
characters weren't faking it either. They were panicing because the player
thought it was cuite, and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+
PRE would also do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with
all sorts of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for
because it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:16 1997
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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 97 12:58:03
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Subject: Re: 0 END vs. Uses
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On Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:24:31 +0000, Michael Gillespie wrote:
>I remember a few weeks back, someone (sorry, don't remember who) was
>talking about why anyone would get more than 64 uses (or 250 uses for
>autofire) when Zero END is cheaper.
>
>I had to agree, and things like this bug the heck out of me (it's an
>incurable mental condition), when you can buy things two different ways
>with the same point cost, but one of these is in all ways superior. I
>don't mind it if there is a difference where one is occasionally more
>useful (such as Invisibility vs. Images limited to making things "not
>there"), so I tried to think of some minor advantages to taking uses over
>reduced END.
>
>Unfortunately, all I could come up with are limitations. I decided that in
>my campaign, all powers through charges have the following limits "built
>in", receiving no limit for them:
> Must be used at full power
-1/4 on its own (see HSR).
> Can't be spread
Ditto ('Beam attack')
> Can't be pushed
> Can't be pulled (as in pulling a punch)
>
>Each of these are pretty minor, obviously none of them taken alone is worth
>a limitation (maybe a -1/8 in my campaign), although all together they'd be
>worth at least -1/4 on powers that they could all apply to. I didn't want
>to have to say that all guns and similar conceptions had to tack on this
>limit, so I said it's just part of charges.
>
>But all this just makes the difference between 0 END and 64 charges even
>worse. Can anyone think of any advantages (no matter how minor) that could
>justify putting 64 uses (or more) on a power instead of 0 END?
As an Independent item where the charges do not recover. 'Take this
rod, but beware, child, its power is only good for ...'
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:17 1997
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Subject: Re: PBEM
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 97 12:17:25 -0500
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From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net>
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filkhero@pop.netaddress.usa.net
>I have been considering running a PBEM game, but I have never done so
>before. Does anyone know where I can find good information on running
>such a game, rather than web pages about a particular game? I am
>particularly interested in ideas about how to handle Hero's already
>slow combat system when it might be a week before someone tells me
>their move. Any ideas?
>
>Filksinger
>
Try emailing David Miller (selena@fred.net). He's been running one for
a couple years now and is just completeing a rewrite of the campaign
including house rules that have come up along the way. He may be able
to grant some insights.
PAX.
____________________________________________________________________
| Name: John P. Weatherman | Phone: |
| email: asahoshi@nr.infi.net | (H) (910) 785-1130 |
| fax: (910) 748-4632 | (O) (910) 545-2722 |
|_____________________________|____________________________________|
| He who walking on the sea could calm the bitter waves, who gives |
| life to the dying seeds of the earth; He who was able to loose |
| the mortal chains of death and after three days' darkness could |
| bring again to the upper world the brother of his sister Martha: |
| He, I beleive, will make Damasus rise again from the dust. |
| Pope St. Damasus I (c.305-384) |
|__________________________________________________________________|
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:19 1997
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From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
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Subject: Re: Super Kids
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 15:44:26 -0400 (EDT)
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> > Simon Says - mind control with the limitation that he must do whatever
> > he commands other people to do. (and say "Simon says" of course!)
>
> Hopefully, he gives up his evil(?) ways before he reaches high
> school. Can you imagine a teenage boy with this power? "Go to the
> Clairmont Hotel, enter room 210, and have a wild night of sex with
> the first person you see in the room." Could get ugly.
>
> Filksinger
>
Yeah, especially when the girl reports him for rape, and police telepaths
confirm what happened. Or when Simon finds out that "Rebecca Wayne"'s
dad Bruce ain't exactly even-tempered.
-Eric
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:21 1997
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From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:14:37 -0500 (CDT)
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Subject: PBEM
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> From: filkhero@pop.netaddress.usa.net
>
> I have been considering running a PBEM game, but I have never done so
> before. Does anyone know where I can find good information on running
> such a game, rather than web pages about a particular game? I am
> particularly interested in ideas about how to handle Hero's already
> slow combat system when it might be a week before someone tells me
> their move. Any ideas?
>
> Filksinger
There's supposed to be article on running e-mail games accessible from
Harrigan's web page. http://www1.usa1.com/~davin/rpg/coc/cocmain.html
He's just started an e-mail game himself.
I believe the trick for combats is not to run it phase by phase, but
get general guidelines for each character and run it in half-turn intervals
or stop when the situation changes greatly.
Curt
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:22 1997
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From: Eric Pawtowski <epawtows@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu>
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Subject: Babylon 5 probabilities
In-Reply-To: <199706212214.RAA17645@b04b17.exu.ericsson.se> from Curt Hicks at "Jun 21, 97 05:14:37 pm"
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 18:31:42 -0400 (EDT)
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Well, there was an arguemnt about this the other day, so I'll repost
this here (with the author's permission):
T A S K P R O B A B I L I T I E S I N
T H E B A B Y L O N P R O J E C T R P G
by Pierre Savoie
[If you want to get right down to a useful Master Probability Table, skip a
bit.]
Over the years I have noticed how role-playing games try to distinguish
themselves using exotic dice-rolling systems. Some are content with simple
percentile rolls, where people can clearly see what the odds are in per cent
for the target probability. Almost as easy is the classic d20 system, as old
as the CHAINMAIL wargame which became D&D, based on the laudable premise that
you don't have to cut probabilities too fine to be able to model different
rates of success (in familiar 5% increments).
Gary Gygax once tried to form his own RPG company, New Infinities
Productions Inc. For their only RPG, CYBORG COMMANDO, he suggested a roll
where two d10's were MULTIPLIED together which was then compared to the
target probability. This was usually based on a "percentile" skill, and to
improve this skill experience points were added to it uniformly, but as the
character became expert in that skill the linear increases did less and less
good, with fewer and fewer new dice rolls in the high end which were a
success, reflecting the difficulty of improving an expert character. Games
from Chaosium Inc. use the inverse method of giving skills in their true
linear percentile probability, but reducing the chances of a skill increase
at high percentage values (non-linear percentile improvement).
Some games base themselves on 3d6 or 2d6 rolls, but people get used to
the probability profile and have a feel for how much more likely an "11+" is
than a "14+". Some really go off the deep end such as SHADOWRUN, with
rolling a number of single six-sided dice at a time based on your skill, each
roll of 6 causing you to keep the 6 and add a new roll (ad infinitum), and
then counting up the number of dice which beat a target number and comparing
to the number of such successes you need. Yechhhh!
Anyway, why does THE BABYLON PROJECT RPG (TBP) use the dice-rolling
system it does? For any character actions which are not an automatic "sure
thing", all games seek to create a sufficiently varied range of outcomes.
Increases in skill and situational modifiers will move the probabilities into
some new range in interesting ways, if the game is well designed.
Given a range of outcomes, most games try to model the probabilities of
each dice-roll so that they resemble a chunky bar-graph version of the
Gaussian curve or "bell curve", where extreme results occur but rarely and
average results are much more common.
Recent games (STAR WARS, CYBERPUNK) have been making greater use of a
Target Number system, where there is a certain value you need to "make" or
"beat". Any higher rolls are also winners, and the probability of success
equals the sum of the probabilities of all equal or higher numbers. Because
of the large "hump" in the middle of the probability profile, slight changes
in the target cause the largest changes in probability in this range.
This feature of the bell curve has been very important for decades in
tactical boardgames, encouraging players to marshall all the advantages they
can get, to add "bonuses" to improve their odds when evenly matched. This
was described in a little-known booklet called GAME DESIGN: Volume 1: Theory
and Practice, by Nick Schuessler and Steve Jackson, 1981, chapter 6 (there
were no further Volumes!)
As the 1st-edition AD&D game made clear, the easiest way to simulate
something close to a bell curve was to roll three six-sided dice and add the
numbers (two dice are not enough because the probability is more of a
triangular profile, although this was used in early TRAVELLER.) The extreme
results 3 and 18 each occur on the average only once every 216 throws.
TBP has found a way to use only two regular six-sided dice and generate
many bell-curve distributions. This game assigns a Difficulty rating to
tasks a character might have to perform. Difficulty labels are rather
arbitrary, such as Basic, Average, Tricky, or Difficult, and each is assigned
a target number. The player must add the values of a character's appropriate
Attribute, a relevant Skill, a +2 bonus for a Specialty, and a Random
Modifier.
This Random Modifier causes results to vary according to a distribution.
Two six-sided dice are rolled, one representing "positive" and the other
"negative", but only the smaller die is retained as the result. Since there
are 36 possible combinations of these dice pairs, we can determine the
consequences of each pair and tabulate the results:
Result: # of occurrences (out of 36):
+ 5 1
+ 4 2
+ 3 3
+ 2 4
+ 1 5
0 6 [the result of all tied dice-pairs](*)
- 1 5
- 2 4
- 3 3
- 4 2
- 5 1
So far, simple. In fact, you would get the same spread of probability
just by adding two six-sided dice together and subtracting 7, but TBP avoids
even this minimal arithmetic by simply asking you to focus on the number of
the smaller die-roll.
(*)Rolling two 1's gives an additional Setback result of some minor
sort; rolling two 6's gives a minor Benefit result. Since these are
adjudicated by the GM, they are role-played and add some interest to the
situations but do not affect probabilities.
Since players will want to design characters with some kind of
specialist profession, they will naturally tend to boost the Attribute
important to the skills of that profession by +2, raise a favorite skill to
the beginner maximum of 4, and name a specialty within that skill for a +2
bonus. Assuming an average base racial Attribute of 5, that totals 13.
Although some players will want to spread skill points around or attempt to
have two or more favored specialties, their main skill rolls will equal or
approach that number.
TBP has assigned target numbers to Difficulty ratings on a non-linear
scale, where an unmodified rating of Difficult is 11 but Very Difficult is
15. Since a seasoned professional in a skill is at up to 13, this falls
conveniently in the middle of a very sensitive range, where the Random
Modifier creates small swings in the final number and large swings in the
resulting probability of beating the Difficulty number -- right where a
professional is challenged by tough tasks.
Unskilled characters can only apply their Attribute to an Ability
number, so they are struggling with what to a human professional are
Basic/Average Tasks. Difficulties of 5 to 9 are their critical range.
For routine tasks, set much lower, the player may not even have to
bother rolling at all, although he should anyway to see if he gets "snake
eyes" (the minor, role-played Setback result) or "boxcars" (some extra
Benefit). But for tasks in the challenging range, the GM must be very
careful to use Difficulty number modifiers sparingly, and here's why:
If we consider the Margin obtained by subtracting the Difficulty number
of the task from the Ability number resulting from the character's Attribute,
Skill and Specialty, we can then construct this handy master (monster!)
table:
------------------------------------------------------------
MASTER PROBABILITY TABLE
(chances out of 36)
Margin [PIP=Probability of Injury after Pushing(*);
between (C=Critical, S=Significant, N=Normal, M=Marginal)
Ability + (S=Success, F=Failure) ]
and
Diffi- SUCCESS
culty TOTAL PIP CS SS NS MS | MF NF SF CF
|
11 or more 36 0 36 0 0 0 | 0 0 0 0
|
10 36 0 35 1 0 0 | 0 0 0 0
9 36 0 33 3 0 0 | 0 0 0 0
8 36 0 30 5 1 0 | 0 0 0 0
7 36 0 26 7 3 0 | 0 0 0 0
6 36 0 21 9 5 1 | 0 0 0 0
|
5 36 0 15 11 7 3 | 0 0 0 0
4 35 0 10 11 9 5 | 1 0 0 0
3 33 0 6 9 11 7 | 2 1 0 0
2 30 0 3 7 11 9 | 3 3 0 0
1 26 1 1 5 9 11 | 4 5 1 0
|
0 21 3 0 3 7 11 | 5 7 3 0
|
- 1 15 6 0 1 5 9 | 6 9 5 1
- 2 10 10 0 0 3 7 | 5 11 7 3
- 3 6 15 0 0 1 5 | 4 11 9 6
- 4 3 21 0 0 0 3 | 3 9 11 10
- 5 1 26 0 0 0 1 | 2 7 11 15
|
- 6 0 30 0 0 0 0 | 1 5 9 21
- 7 0 33 0 0 0 0 | 0 3 7 26
- 8 0 35 0 0 0 0 | 0 1 5 30
- 9 0 36 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 3 33
-10 0 36 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 1 35
|
-11 or less 0 36 0 0 0 0 | 0 0 0 36
(*)The probability of physical injury after pushing a physical Attribute by
1 is given for the Margin for the new Ability score derived from the new,
temporary physical Attribute. This probability is equal to SF + CF. Keep in
mind that suggested Impact injury for SF is 3, and CF is 6, and so the
probability distribution and not just the total injury probability will
matter.
To convert these figures to percentage probabilities, multiply the values
given by 2.777777777.
------------------------------------------------------------
By adding up the probability of rolls which meet or exceed the target
Difficulty number, we get probabilities reminiscent of a bell curve
distribution. Notice that an Ability number evenly matched to a Difficulty
gives a slightly larger than 50% probability of success (21/36). This has to
do with the fact that a Random Modifier of zero is in fact counted as a
Success result instead of something neutral, and so Marginal Successes almost
always exceed Marginal Failures. This creates an effect similar to a "house
percentage" in gambling casinos, except here the slight improvement in
probability works to the advantage of characters vs. the cold impersonal
universe.
The sensitive area for fluctuations in the Margin span the area of +1 to
-2. In just that short range, the chance of success goes from over 2/3rds
(26/36) to under 1/3rd (10/36). That is why GMs must be very careful not to
allow too many modifiers, and resist the whining and pleading of the players
to add even a +/- 1 modifier for a trivial reason. However, if there is an
overwhelmingly good reason, the GM can add a large modifier and either make
success in a task almost assured -- or almost beyond the reach of even the
top specialists.
But that's not all! Every roll causes a particular degree of success or
failure, and as the Margin goes up, not only does the probability of success
increase but the quality of successes will shift also. The distributions are
clearly shown along each row of the table, although by this point a math
analysis of success breaks down because most non-combat results are defined
by the GM for what is meant by "Critical Success" or "Marginal Failure". A
player may have fixed an Attribute and Skill to set his Margin rather high,
but the specific quality of the result is still in doubt, with a rough bell
curve profile of results.
Bell-curve profiles occur every which way, in whatever direction on the
table when you keep one variable fixed, and so that yields the desired
diversity of results. That is why I would rate TBP's system as better-than-
average and deceptively simple since you roll only two dice and appear to
have fixed the range of outcomes when you fixed your Attribute and skill levels.
Another outcome of this table has to do with the Probability of taking
an Impact Injury after Pushing a physical Attribute (PIP). This practice
works best when you are already a star athlete, to raise your positive Margin
to achieve really spectacular successes. It should not be tried at the lower
Margins to reduce the severity of failure, since you will indeed shift the
bell-curve distribution of results by moving up one row, but the act of
Pushing will now introduce the risk of Impact Injury (equal to the sum of the
chances of Significant and Critical Failures).
It is unclear whether multiple simultaneous pushes are allowed, but even
sequential use of pushing carries an extra risk of exhaustion when reducing
Endurance down to half.
Once again, I welcome comments to this analysis.
---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net)
-
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that's an "L", not a "one", at the end). For more information on
The Babylon Project, visit Chameleon Eclectic's web site at
http://www.blackeagle.com.
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:26 1997
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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 19:27:54 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
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Subject: Ultimate series
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Has anyone heard anymore on any of the Ultimate Books?
I looked at the Hero Page....... Nice job of being current. ;) But where
do I go for the NEW stuff? My group is getting antsy to build a new team
and wants all the shiney new toys to do it with.
On a related note...... does anyone have a new (well not necessarily
new) VIPER villain they'd like to share or lend out? Preferabley
something devious and cunning. I'm building new Nest in Dallas and
need a Paranormal to run the place. ANY suggestions will be
appreciated.
Thanx
Jerry
aka Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:28 1997
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:33:43 +1000
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Babylon 5 probabilities
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At 06:31 PM 6/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
(blah)
> TBP has found a way to use only two regular six-sided dice and generate
>many bell-curve distributions. This game assigns a Difficulty rating to
>tasks a character might have to perform. Difficulty labels are rather
>arbitrary, such as Basic, Average, Tricky, or Difficult, and each is assigned
>a target number. The player must add the values of a character's appropriate
>Attribute, a relevant Skill, a +2 bonus for a Specialty, and a Random
>Modifier.
(blah)
they didn't find anything. Daeldalus used the same system in it's Nexus game-
incidentally the only other good multigenre i've found.
All in all, this is what i object to. No one on the list persisted with the
"50%-50%" thingie fer long. A few people just said the game sucked.
Please, can we stay away from purposless stuff like this? Nobody cares about the
brilliant nuances of non-linear probability!! It all just makes it harder
for the GM to improvise with numbers. Yes, i say this afteer reading the whole thing, so please don't repost it.
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:29 1997
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Super Kids
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At 03:44 PM 6/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> > Simon Says - mind control with the limitation that he must do whatever
>> > he commands other people to do. (and say "Simon says" of course!)
>>
>> Hopefully, he gives up his evil(?) ways before he reaches high
>> school. Can you imagine a teenage boy with this power? "Go to the
>> Clairmont Hotel, enter room 210, and have a wild night of sex with
>> the first person you see in the room." Could get ugly.
>>
>> Filksinger
>>
>
>Yeah, especially when the girl reports him for rape, and police telepaths
>confirm what happened. Or when Simon finds out that "Rebecca Wayne"'s
>dad Bruce ain't exactly even-tempered.
>
>-Eric
>
>
i still like my slimebeast idea better. . . .
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:30 1997
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From: HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Related subject:
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>> but that's not roleplaying!! that's character conception and skills!! who
>> was roleplaying a dancer better? personality wise??
>
> That was debateable, but no matter what one character did, they allways
>lost when they crossed over to the other's speciality. The dancer and the
>singer were just one example. If the characters were playing the their characters the GM wanted them to, they could do no wrong. It didn't matter
>what they had down on their character sheet. It was even worse with games
>other than Champions, (like anything by RTG). Where one particular player's
>characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The
>characters weren't faking it either. They were panicing because the player
>thought it was cuite, and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+
>PRE would also do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with
>all sorts of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for
>because it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
>
>
uh-huh? and this is bad why? roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be
commended! for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
and as for supes. . . .
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:35 1997
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:51:54 PST
Subject: ego power
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From: darkage@juno.com (Daemon Devillore)
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I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
Thanx
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:36 1997
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From: mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net (Mike Lehmann)
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 03:39:35 -0800
Organization: Terminal BBS (403)327-9731
Subject: PBEM
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-=> Quoting to Mike Lehmann <=-
> I have been considering running a PBEM game, but I have never done so
> before. Does anyone know where I can find good information on running
> such a game, rather than web pages about a particular game? I am
> particularly interested in ideas about how to handle Hero's already
> slow combat system when it might be a week before someone tells me
> their move. Any ideas?
I can offer what I use for my PBEM. Here's an explained Tactical Sheet, which is how my players inform me of their actions each phase or turn.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Champions Tactics Sheet Battle # ___
Player: _________________________ Character: ______________________
Scenario: ______________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stance:
Total Offense Active Offense Balance Active Defense Total Defense
- Only pick one, please. This will give me an idea of what types of
actions you may take, as well as power levels you'll be using. Please
do not take "Total Offense", then ask to be defending as your
objective.
(IOW, how are your combat levels, if any, used, and what types of
attacks are you likely to use: Haymakers over nerve strikes, for
example).
Primary Objective:
- Engaging/avoiding a specific opponent
- For example, blasting the big tank, or dousing the flaming guy.
- Taking/avoiding a specific action
- Hitting that switch with my Batarang (tm) or avoiding being
pushed into the spinning blades of evisceration...
- Ensuring/preventing a specific event
- Making sure the President gives his speech, or preventing Dr. Mad
Scientist from pulling the death ray "ON" lever...
- Using/opposing a specific skill
- Setting up a security program for the base or disarming a bomb
laid by Doctor Demolition...
- Only 1 of the above for Primary Objective
Secondary Objective:
- Same rules as Primary
General Objectives:
- Can be up to 3 other actions of minor importance.
- Like deal with flying dudes, or cover my buddies... general
actions (which could be as detailed as you want 'em to be).
These priorities will give me an idea of what you'd plan on doing during
the fight. You can be as detailed as you like, but there is a 5-action
limit for most (1 primary, 1 secondary, 3 general)...
Observing:
- You can observe many things, but your perception of each is reduced.
1-2 things of key importance should be sufficient.
- Watching out for "unseen" foes may cause some firing at shadowy
figures.
Of course, if you're watching the shadows and someone springs out of
them, you'll have a good shot at them...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
It can get a little confusing using it the first few times, but once you
get the hang of using it, it gives a lot of flexibility to the player
and (especially) the GM, who usually writes up the results of combat
actions...
mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net - - - - - Justice Krewe / Enigma Watch GM
- - - - - - http://www.dfw.net/~aronhead/justice_krewe.html - - - - - -
... "Auto Repair Service. Try us once, you'll never go anywhere again."
~~~ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 10:16:37 1997
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:50:50 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
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Subject: Re: ego power
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Daemon Devillore wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
> multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
> on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
Hmmm...
4d6 Energy Blast, +1 Based on ECV, +1 Area Effect Line (or radius, or
cone...)
60 active points and a downright nasty power.
Of course, if you want to get even UGLIER:
3d6 Energy Blast, +1 Based on ECV, +1-1/2 Autofire vs Special Defenses,
+1/2 half end.
60 active points and usually doing 9-12 dice of NND damage to most
people (assuming the egoist has a decent ECV and mental defense is
fairly uncommon in the campaign)
Good luck on getting a GM to approve the last one though ;) (or still
having it after the first or second time you use it)
Todd
From ???@??? Sun Jun 22 13:55:58 1997
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:49:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: GURPS to Hero (long)
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CONVERTING GURPS SUPERS TO HERO
The following is a rough outline of how to convert your typical GURPS
Supers character into Hero System character sheet. Note that this is
really a 'quick-and-dirty' guide to systems conversion, I am not all that
familiar with GURPS mechanics to try anything more complex than the
basics. This is also not an attempt to breakdown GURPS posers into their
HERO equivalents. I highly recommend that anyone trying to convert from
GURPS have (at least ) GURPS Supers available.
PART I: Characteristics
For converting from GURPS to Hero using the following chart (adapted from
Fantasy Hero 2nd Edition).
STR see below
DEX (DX x 2) -10
CON (HT x 2) -10
BODY HT and see below
INT (IQ x 2) -10
EGO see below
PRE 10 + (Charisma x 2.5) and see below
COM see below
PD Figured x 2 (note: this may result in very odd numbers)
ED Figured x 2 (ditto)
SPD Figured(Round Up) and see below
REC Figured
END Figured
STUN Figured
Note: the (CHAR x 2) -10 system works well enough for most translations.
When adapting low-level characters (ie. normals) this will result in Hero
Characteristics from 10 to 30. This may be a bit extreme for some GMs.
It tends to work out fine for Super Hero characters.
STR: this stat is a mess as far as translations go. GURPS STR is linear
(20 STR is 2x as strong as a 10 STR, 40 is as twice as strong as 20 etc.),
while Hero is exponential (each 5 points of STR is doubles your lifting
capacity). After some rough figuring based upon stated values in source
material and the GURPS maximum lifting rules I offer the following system:
GURPS HERO
15 13
16 14
17 15
18 16
19 17
20 18
21 19
22 20
26 23
30 25
33 28
35 30
45 33
55 35
65 38
75 40
90 43
110 45
130 48
150 50
180 53
210 55
250 58
290 60
350 63
410 65
BODY: some characters have the power of "Extra Hit Points". Add these to
the HT score to find the characters final BODY total.
EGO: There are several ways to handle this. One is to use (IQ x 2) -10,
which means that any smart character is going to have a high Ego as well.
Another is to use ((IQ + Strong Will) x2) -10. The third is to use IQ +
(Strong Will x 2) to determine EGO. The final is to use 10 + (Strong Will
x 2). The best method seems to be the third way.
PRE: Another way is to give the character +3 PRE for ever level of
Charisma they have.
COM: A rough correlation is as follows:
GURPS HERO
Hideous 0-2
Ugly 4-6
Unattractive 8
Attractive 12-14
Handsome/Beautiful 16-18
Very Handsome/Beautiful 20-22+
SPD: This is very tough. The move score given for characters only
reflects their actual movement. The character's Speed stat helps to
determine over all quickness. a very high GURPS Speed should mean a very
good Hero SPD. In many cases refer to the character description.
MOVE: use the GURPS movement score straight over as the Hero Running.
Some characters may have Flight, and some will have different Flight
numbers (such as a base flight and a "super" flight. In many cases the
Flight listed is a top speed. Usually these numbers can help determine
the characters actual SPD as well.
PART II: GURPS Advantages
A lot of this are similar to Hero Talents. Others are simulated by a
characteristic boost. See the chart below. Note: any GURPS Advantage not
listed is something that doesn't translate to Hero easily.
GURPS HERO
Absolute Direction Bump of Direction
Absolute Timing Absolute Time Sense
Acute Hearing PER bonus to hearing
Acute Taste and Smell PER bonus to taste/smell
Acute Vision PER bonus to sight
Alertness PER bonus
Ambidexterity Ambidexterity
Attractiveness see COM
Charisma see PRE
Clerical Investment Perk: Priest
Combat Reflexes Increase DEX or CSL with HTH
Danger Sense Danger Sense
Double-Jointed Double Jointed
Eidetic Memory Eidetic Memory
High Pain Threshold Add to PD or ED, 1/4 Damage Resistance,
Physical, Stun Only (-1/2)
Immunity to Disease Life Support: Immunity to Disease
Language Talent Linguist
Legal Enforcement Powers Perk: Legal Enforcement Powers (var)
Lightning Calculator Lightning Calculator
Luck: 15 Points 1d6 Luck
Luck: 30 Points 3d6 Luck
Military Rank Perk: Rank (var)
Night Vision UV Vision (except *total* darkness)
Strong Will see EGO
Toughness Add to PD or ED, Damage Resistance or Armor
Wealth see below
GURPS HERO
Dead Broke Destitute
Poor Poor
Struggling Middle Class
Average Middle Class
Comfortable Middle Class
Wealthy Well Off
Very Wealthy Wealthy
Filthy Rich Filthy Rich
Allies Follower
Patron Contact
PART III: Disadvantages
These are pretty simple. Most of them translate right over to Hero disads
pretty easy. I'd recommend getting a hold of a GURPS rule book to
determine exactly what some of the disads mean, but... A rough breakdown
of GURPS Disadvantages would be as follows:
GURPS HERO
SOCIAL see below
Odious Personal Habit Usually a DF, or a Psych Lim
Poverty see Wealth
Primitive Phys Lim: Doesn't understand/unfamiliar with 'x'
Reputation Reputation
Social Stigma Usually a DF, or a Rep.
PHYSICAL usually a Phys Lim. Note that some GURPS Physical
Limitations may or may not be consider "valid"
limitations by Hero GMs.
MENTAL usually a Psych Lim. See notes below.
Addiction Possible Psych and Phys Lim
Berserk Berserk/Enraged
Dyslexia Phys Lim
Illiterate Phys Lim
Split Personality Phys Lim, as well as possible Accidental Change
Unluckiness 1d6 Unluck
Weak Will Lower the character's EGO
DEPENDENTS DNPC
DUTIES usually a Watched
ENEMIES Hunted
QUIRKS May be a DF or a minor Psych Lim. Some GMs allow
1 point Quirks for Hero as well (I do)
PART IV: Super Advantages, Powers and Super Skills
Get a copy of GURPS Supers and read the power description. There are far
to many powers and skills and so one to even try and define them all in
Hero terms. Such a project is feasible, but far beyond the intended scope
of this posting. Needless to say, most if not all questions such as power
level, damage amounts and such will often be determined by the GM's
preferences as well as information gained via translation. For example,
the author of this post tended to keep to a standard 60 Active Points for
powers when adapting the Wild Cards characters. The numbers tended to
work out alright and provide a nice consistent base for others to modify
from.
PART V: Super Disadvantages:
GURPS HERO
Dependency Dependence (or, possibly a Phys Lim)
Uncontrolled Change Accidental Change
Vulnerability Vulnerability
Weakness Susceptablity
PART VI: Skills
Skills tend to be pretty straight forward. Most skills have Hero
counterparts. Note that GURPS skills often have numbers that far exceed
the typical 3-18 range that Hero uses. A rough listing of easy to
translate skills is as follows:
GURPS HERO
Acrobatics Acrobatics, Breakfall
Acting Acting. Mimicry
Administration Bureaucratics
Animal Handler Animal Handling
Armory Weaponsmith
Bard Oratory
Climbing Climbing
Criminology Deduction
Demolitions Demolitions
Diplomacy Conversation
Disguise Disguise
Escape Contortionist
Fast Talk Bribery, Persuasion
First Aid Paramedic
Hobby Skill Knowledge Skill
Hold Out Concealment
Intelligence Analysis Criminology
Forgery Forgery
Gambling Gambling
Interrogation Interrogation
Lip Reading Lipreading
Lockpicking Lockpicking
Mechanic Mechanics
Merchant Trading
Navigation Navigation
Pick Pockets Sleight of Hand
Professional Skill Professional Skill
Riding Riding
Savoir-Faire High Society
Science Skills Science Skills
Sex Appeal Seduction
Shadowing Shadowing
Sleight of Hand Sleight of Hand
Strategy Tactics
Stealth Stealth
Streetwise Streetwise
Surgery Forensic Medicine
Swimming Swimming
Tactics Tactics
Traps Security Systems
Vehicle Skills Transport Familiarity
Ventriloquism Ventriloquism
Weapons Skills Weapon Familiarity
Martial Arts:
GURPS HERO
Brawling Dirty Infighting, or HTH CSL (either 3 point or 5
point levels
Fencing Fencing or Kenjutsu - any martial arts that relies
mainly upon use of a sword
Judo Akido, Judo, Wrestling - any martial arts that
concentrates upon throws and holds
Karate Karate, Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do - any martial arts
that concentrates upon punching and kicking
Note: some characters may have more than one martial skill. Moonchild
(from GURPS Wild Cards) had both Judo and Karate. The game description
mentioned her using Akido, but her nationality was Korean. I remembered
her using Tae Kwon Do maneuvers in one of the books and gave her those
packages. Other characters should get martial arts based upon origin and
character description.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:00 1997
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Jun 97 02:59:00 GMT
Subject: The Harlequin Challenge
Message-Id: <5c6_9706221021@october.com>
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h >
h > My solution, was to build Harlequin as the "main character" with a
h > Multiform. The Multiform was Comedian, and he had the power of
h > Duplication with the limitation, 1 Body, Always On. The balance of
h > points between the three forms was absolute hell. Thespian was built
h > a certain amount of points, Comedian the same amount, plus duplication
h > (strong enough to create the Thespian Body) and the Harliquin had to
h > have Multiform powerful enough for the Comedian's total points.
h > (Whew!!!!)
h >
h > Does anyone out there have a simpler way of creating one individual,
h > that splits into two unique beings, less powerful than the first?
Usually when you have a duplicating character like this - with two
duplicates that are less powerful than the combined character,
you build the full power character with some of his powers bought
'not when duplicated' (-1/2?) and duplication.
If the two weaker characters are substantially different from the
combined form (or you just don't want one of the duplicates
staggering under the wieght of more disadvantages) you could buy
The 'combined' form as the 'primary' character, who would take
Duplication to produce one of the lesser characters, and a (probably
linked) Multiform to change into the other. This way, the two
Duplicates can be built on equal total points and Disadvantages,
and only the primary form need bear the cost of the Duplication
and Multiform.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:02 1997
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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 13:55:03 -0400
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net>
Subject: Re: ego power
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At 12:51 AM 6/22/97 PST, Daemon Devillore wrote:
>I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
>multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
>on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
It looks to me like you have already described the power perfectly:
6d6 EGO Attack, AOE Line (+1), Visible (-1/4). 60 Active, 48 Real cost.
That's a devistating attack. It averages 21 points against everyone but
the enemy mentalist. You don't even need a great ECV, how hard is it to
hit the poor defenseless hex.
Joe
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:04 1997
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From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
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Subject: Re: Related subject:
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970622144748.354f1f0c@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
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On Sun, 22 Jun 1997, HAPPYELF!!! wrote:
> >Where one particular player's characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but
> >go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The characters weren't faking it
> >either. They were panicing because the player thought it was cuite,
> >and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+ PRE would also
> >do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with all sorts
> >of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for because
> >it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
> uh-huh? and this is bad why?
Because it's generally considered appropriate to role-play your character
the way he or she was defined. If you want to play a character who's
weak-willed and/or easily frightened, buy the stats to represent that. If
you want certain powers and skills, buy them.
> roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be commended!
Why? What makes it any better or worse than playing your character as if
he or she were better than their stats indicate?
> for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
I don't see how that relates at all.
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:06 1997
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From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
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Subject: Re: CHAR: Hiram Worchester
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On Fri, 20 Jun 1997 BeerCarboy@aol.com wrote:
> Also he needs a Detect: Gravity Waves: Targetting Sense because he can sense
> the play of gravity waves (when he contemplates killing Fortunato when the
> pimp reports the death of Hiram's friend at the hands of the Alchemist he
> does this).
Unless he's actually done something useful with this ability (preferrably
more than once), I'd say it's purely an SFX thing.
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:07 1997
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Jun 97 05:16:00 GMT
Subject: ego power
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h > From: darkage@juno.com (Daemon Devillore)
h > To: champ-l@omg.org
h >
h > I'm thinking about an egotist with an visible ego attack that goes to
h > multiple targets(like in line?) in a single phase. I'm having trouble
h > on keeping the power cheap enough for a well rounded 250pt hero.
h >
h > Thanx
You're probably starting with the wrong power (Ego Attack). Instead,
buy an NND or AVLD Energy Blast, with the AE:Line Advantage. That's
a +2 advantage for the NND - 4d6 for 60 Apts. If you must, you could
take an EB with Based on Ego Combat Value instead. Same cost as the
NND, but will require a ECV roll against each victim, and goes against
EGO defense. Both are visible and take range mods, unlike an AE Ego
Attack, but the cost is more reasonable. Also, are you picturing a
line coming from the character or an AE that he puts out at a distance?
If the former, you can bring the cost down further with a 'no range'
limitation.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58 * I am not a Rules Lawyer...I'm a Rules Activist.
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:10 1997
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From: "Sean Pavlish" <pavlish@erols.com>
Subject: Re: ego power
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:54:04 -0400
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> It looks to me like you have already described the power perfectly:
>
> 6d6 EGO Attack, AOE Line (+1), Visible (-1/4). 60 Active, 48 Real cost.
> That's a devistating attack. It averages 21 points against everyone but
> the enemy mentalist. You don't even need a great ECV, how hard is it to
> hit the poor defenseless hex.
>
> Joe
>
uhm, I believe that ego attack is 10 per die.. thus, it would be 120 active.... not
60.
Sean
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:12 1997
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From: Robert Rutherford <mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu>
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Subject: Re: Related subject:
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:27:58 (-0600)
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On Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:41:45 +1000,
HAPPYELF!!! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> wrote about Re: Related subject::
> >> but that's not roleplaying!! that's character conception and skills!! who
> >> was roleplaying a dancer better? personality wise??
> >
> > That was debateable, but no matter what one character did, they allways
> >lost when they crossed over to the other's speciality. The dancer and the
> >singer were just one example. If the characters were playing the their characters the GM wanted them to, they could do no wrong. It didn't matter
> >what they had down on their character sheet. It was even worse with games
> >other than Champions, (like anything by RTG). Where one particular player's
> >characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The
> >characters weren't faking it either. They were panicing because the player
> >thought it was cuite, and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+
> >PRE would also do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with
> >all sorts of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for
> >because it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
> >
> >
>
> uh-huh? and this is bad why? roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be
> commended! for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
> and as for supes. . . .
Roleplyingbelow their stat level is to be commended? Where do you get this
idea? What is your idea of roleplaying, doing sutff that's cuite or funny?
Neither Sups of spiderman run around acting like bimbos, why then should
players playing characters with comprable mental stats be rewarding for
playing their charcters as if they were morons. If I have a character who is
defined as being cooler than the Fonze, whould I be comended for hacing the
character jump and go "Yipe!" everytime some punk gets in his face? Is that
roleplaying to you? If you reward players for playing characters stats lower
than they are, you would love my current group where I have told Charcters
what to do next and they still didn't have a clue as to what they needed to
do. Please, if you want to play an idiot, don't give him an 18 INT.
--
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|Rob Rutherford |Mandatory Disclaimer: |
|A.K.A. mirage | |
|E-mail |If my views were those of my university |
|mirage@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu |my tuition wouldn't go up every year. |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| URL http://hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu/~mirage/home.html |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:14 1997
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:34:45 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
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Subject: A scenario idea, and a question
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Seeing as the list is so quiet, I'll offer up a scenario idea... (in
exchange for asking a question on how to do a part of it)
First a little background:
Here in Minneapolis we just had 'OzzFest' - an all day concert with 14
heavy metal bands, including Marilyn Manson. The concert was originally
supposed to be in Somerset Wisconsin (about 1/2 hour away) but a group
of 'concerned christians' got together and started a petition to stop
them from having the concert there if Marilyn was going to play. When
the concert was moved to Minneapolis, a similar christian group tried to
do the same thing here (they were unsuccessful - it's a little tougher
to do this in a city than in a small town).
For those of you unfamiliar with Marilyn Manson - his image is pretty
heavy with satanism undertones. (his tshirts all tout slogans like 'tell
me you love Satan' and 'Dont trust God - the Lord is a shepard') He
looks alot like Edward Scissorhands crossed with the transvestite from
Rocky Horror. He does things on stage like pretending to cut himself
(and despite what the media says, its fake blood - I watched close
tonite), rips up bibles, gets the crowd to chant things like 'We hate
love, we love hate', etc... he REALLY plays up the whole image and
drives the crowd into a real frenzy in the process. Drives the
christian groups (and the media) completely nuts.
disclaimer #1: I'm not a Marilyn Manson fan, I actually went to the
concerts for a couple of the OTHER bands... like Type O Negative! ;)
Anyway, now that I've set the stage, here's the scenario:
(Disclaimer #2 - if this seems to be a bit... disjointed, keep in mind
that I'm writing this after about 8 hours of listening to heavy metal
bands.. and my ears are still ringing)
Marilyn Manson (change the name if you want - I'm leaving it alone
because I know it will push some buttons in my group ;) is coming to
town to do a concert. Your campaign city has one of those groups that
EVERY city has - usually called something like 'Citizens for Decency' or
'Minneapolis Christian Coalition'. This group has made alot of noise
about not wanting this concert to take place.
Nobody is sure WHAT Marilyn Manson's real story is. His following just
gets stronger and stronger. After going to his concerts, his fans can't
wait to run out and buy just about anything with his name on it. The
more outragous he gets, the more the fans love him. Their devotion
borders on fanatacism.
The PCs are asked to go undercover at the concert and see just what is
going on.
What nobody knows: Marilyn's music is his expression of his
superpowers. His early songs work a large area effect ego drain. His
'speeches' in between songs are him using his high Oratory to inspire
the now low-ego fans. His final song is a large area effect mind
control that makes the crowd fanatically loyal to him (at the level to
make them think it is their own idea - not so tough to do to the
currently ego 0 fans).
The fun part: after the final song, when the christian group's own team
of supers breaks in to put a stop to this evil, a good share of the PCs
should already be under the mind control, and be ready to jump to
Marilyn's defense!
The best way to do this: know in advance which PCs have power defense,
how much ego is drained before the final song, what each PCs adjusted
ego (and ego roll) now is. Pre-Roll the mind control for the final
song, ask each PC to make a 3d6 roll (but dont tell them what it is
for). Seperate the PCs into 2 groups: those who are controlled, and
those that arent. Describe the scene of the christian supergroup
busting in to each group the way that they would see it: the controlled
group would see a group of murderous supers busting in and trying to
murder the innocent musician. The PCs who AREN'T controlled see things
as they actually are.. and won't understand why their friends are
fighting AGAINST them! Should provide for some good roleplaying, and a
chance for some of the PCs to go toe to toe with each other (and we all
know they are always looking for a chance to do THAT!)
Eventually the group of controlled PCs should grow smaller and smaller
(either as they are defeated, or as they break the mind-control. Maybe
give them another ego roll to break if a team mate actively tries to
convince them that they are being controlled?)
I'm going to use the above scenario to introduce another Supers group to
the campaign - a team that is considered 'one of the goodguys', but will
not always be working towards the same goals as the PCs are (and will
sometimes have conflicting goals). The above scenario will give them a
built in rivalry..
Okay, I shared the scenario... now the questions:
1. In order for the above scenario to work, the PCs cant realize that
their ego is being drained. Will just buying invisible power effects
take care of that? Or do I need to do something else?
2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
can do the characters...
Well, any comments, suggestions, critisisms? Anybody else want to share
a scenario idea?
Todd
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:17 1997
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:25:42 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
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> > >It was even worse with games
> > >other than Champions, (like anything by RTG). Where one particular player's
> > >characters would have a 9 or 10 Cool, but go "eek!" at the drop of a hat. The
> > >characters weren't faking it either. They were panicing because the player
> > >thought it was cuite, and the GM liked it. Characters with 20+ EGO, and 20+
> > >PRE would also do it in Hero. Characters were running around the game with
> > >all sorts of powers and skills, on top of the ones they payed points for
> > >because it was part of the character concept, and it didn't matter.
> >
> > uh-huh? and this is bad why? roleplaying *below* their stat level is to be
> > commended! for instance, spidey can clearly lift more than 10 tons,
> > and as for supes. . . .
>
> Roleplyingbelow their stat level is to be commended? Where do you get this
> idea? What is your idea of roleplaying, doing sutff that's cuite or funny?
> Neither Sups of spiderman run around acting like bimbos, why then should
> players playing characters with comprable mental stats be rewarding for
> playing their charcters as if they were morons.
(and so on....)
It seems to me that there may be a misinterpretation by some people
between character concept, roleplaying, and character sheets. Allow me
to rant and ramble....
The original complaint had to do with players not playing their
characters' conceptions properly. I have to agree that that is a valid
complaint;
1)Powers and skills not 'paid for' are powers and skills that the
character does not have. Roleplaying cannot make a character understand
how to rebuild a car's engine if (s)he has no mechanics skill; even if
the PLAYER can.
2)Powers and skills that ARE paid for do not simply 'disappear' for
the sake of a humourous reaction or 'take'. If a character has a 25
PRE, (s)he's not going to be frightened or cowed by a thing jumping out
from a bush.
How a person roleplays a character is intimately linked with both the
character's conception AND the character's actual writeup. A Character
with a <19 Computer Programming skill can be roleplayed as a Supreme
Hacker. A character with a <8 Computer Programming roll can only be
roleplayed as a Supreme Hacker WANNABE, or a self-admitted novice. If a
character's concept calls for (in this example) a computer genius, the
player must spend the points, or else change the concept. A Character
with a 23 INT can PRETEND to be an idiot, but (s)he will not actually BE
an idiot.
Roleplaying has to do with personality and psychology, not with
whether or not one has or has not a particular skill; by this I mean
that if you HAVE a skill, you have it, if you don't you don't, period.
ROLEPLAYING has to do with whether that <19 pianist skill makes an
insufferable primadonna or a humble artist. It is important to remember
that in a ROLE PLAYING GAME, a character's ABILITIES are defined by what
is/is not on his/her character sheet, a character's PERSONALITY may be
partially defined by his/her Psych Lims and other Disads; a character's
CONCEPTION must accomodate both of these aspects, and played according
to all three.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:19 1997
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From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
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Todd Hanson sez;
<Scenario Presented>
> 1. In order for the above scenario to work, the PCs cant realize that
> their ego is being drained. Will just buying invisible power effects
> take care of that? Or do I need to do something else?
Invisible Power Effects is precisely what would be appropriate in
this situation, and you'd probably want to include invisible to mental
as well (+1; invisible to all senses)
> 2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
> use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
> fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
> can do the characters...
I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
has;
Mother Superior
Father Secola
Cardinal Biggles
Cardinal Fang
and Caspar the Holy Ghost
Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
have a specific theme for their powers;
Mother Superior; Moses-style abilities (calling down plagues, nasty
weather against the enemy....)
Cardinal Biggles; A Charismatic preacher w/healing, mind control, and
an aid to give additional powers to the 'converted'.
Cardinal Fang; A Brick (The 'Righteous Fist of God)
Caspar; A multiform of the 'Father'(Aids and Drains), the 'Son'(ability
to do small 'miracles'), and the holy ghost(Desol and the ability to
possess people - at least those who are already righteous....)
Father Secola; Simply transportation (Huge amounts of Teleportation
useable on the whole team.)
--
Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:21 1997
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:59:13 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
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The Marilyn Manson Scenario idea has caused me to pose a question
somewhat in relation to its concept;
When a PC is mind-controlled, How do you handle it as a GM; does the
player get to keep playing the character (under new 'orders') or do you
take over the character until the player can break the control?
I would have to assume that this depends on what kind of players one
has; in my group I am exceedingly fortunate that my players are just as
excited at playing their characters as mind-controlled puppets as they
are to trounce the villians. I guess the more accurate question is;
How many GM's have players who can be trusted to play their own
mind-controlled characters?
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:23 1997
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:35:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
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Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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> I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
> Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
> some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
> has;
>
> Mother Superior
> Father Secola
> Cardinal Biggles
> Cardinal Fang
> and Caspar the Holy Ghost
>
> Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
> have a specific theme for their powers;
Alot depends on how seriously you want the PC's to take the group. No
matter how serious the above group was shown to be, I'd never be able to
really take them seriously because of the Monty Python connection.
On good religious group, surprisingly, was done up in the Elementals. The
characters were given names from biblical scripture, the passage relating
to their powers. I don't remember the exact names and passages off hand,
but an example is naming a character Exodus 3:16 (And there was a shroud
of darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness that could be felt) and
give the character darkforce powers.
It should not be too tough to dig up my comics and post the exact names
and passages if there is interest.
TokyoMark
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:25 1997
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From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
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Todd Hanson wrote
<edited>
>
> 1. In order for the above scenario to work, the PCs cant realize that
> their ego is being drained. Will just buying invisible power effects
> take care of that? Or do I need to do something else?
maybe throw in a small "Mental Suggestion"..... like you feel nothing
unusual or ignore what is happening to you
> 2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
> use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
> fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
> can do the characters...
some name ideas:
Revelation
Shepard
Holy Trinity
Holy Ghost
Apostle
Angel
Jericho
Cain
Crucifix
Dove
Retribution
Brimstone
Adam
Eve
Disciple (spelling?)
Father...
Sister...
Brother...
Devotion
Vengence (is Mine, sayeth the Lord)
Convert
David
Goliath
Judas
Revival
Miracle
Cleric
Monk
Paladin
Preacher
> Well, any comments, suggestions, critisisms? Anybody else want to share
> a scenario idea?
Hmmmmm scenario idea?........ OK How about a group of 20 something
Superpowered friends..... they aren't really Badguys but the aren't
really Heroes either. In fact they behave a lot like C.L.O.W.N..... but
are more interested in having fun than anything else.
Any ideas on what kinds of things they might do to attract the attention
of the local Superteam?
Jerry aka
Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:26 1997
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From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
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Tokyo Mark wrote:
>
> > I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
> > Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
> > some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
> > has;
> >
> > Mother Superior
> > Father Secola
> > Cardinal Biggles
> > Cardinal Fang
> > and Caspar the Holy Ghost
> >
> > Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
> > have a specific theme for their powers;
>
> Alot depends on how seriously you want the PC's to take the group. No
> matter how serious the above group was shown to be, I'd never be able to
> really take them seriously because of the Monty Python connection.
>
> On good religious group, surprisingly, was done up in the Elementals. The
> characters were given names from biblical scripture, the passage relating
> to their powers. I don't remember the exact names and passages off hand,
> but an example is naming a character Exodus 3:16 (And there was a shroud
> of darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness that could be felt) and
> give the character darkforce powers.
>
> It should not be too tough to dig up my comics and post the exact names
> and passages if there is interest.
>
> TokyoMark
I remember that issue..... if you do find it... I at least would love
to see the list...... if for nothing else than to learn the passages
again..... I always thought that was a neat concept.... but never
bothered to look up the actual quotes.
In the same vein.... Anybody out there of a faith other than Christian
that could contribute names or concepts?
Jerry aka
Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:28 1997
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 97 11:41:15 GMT
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Subject: re: A scenario idea, and a question
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Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@NET.OnRamp>
>Any ideas on what kinds of things they might do to attract the attention
>of the local Superteam?
Well the Temperance League (perhaps teh ideal name for such a group)
have been used on countless occasions within westerns to provide
some light relief. A supergroup based on religion might cause a
disturbance in the local redlight area as they storm through strip
joints etc, saving these young women from degradation, and young
men from the sins of the flesh.....
Slightly stronger, the team may be of a fundamentalist bent (why
else would they be a problem!!) and have plans about a potential
Papal visit.....
Stronger again, they might decide to remove various government
officials who are obviously not fit to be in charge of themselves
never mind the country, obviously without recourse to the ballot box....
Approaching delicate material would be interference in the process
of abortions, most religious organisations are against the practice
and this kind of fundamentalist group might be the opportunity to
explore the issue in your game (if you're into serious stuff, not
very four colour this!)....
One approach might be that used in the Squadron Supreme maxi-series
(yeah, yeah, JLA ripped off by Marvel, but the story was _good_)
where the superheroes take control of government and then use
a mind altering process to force villains etc to be "good" citizens.
This addresses the whole mind rape issue that ripped across the
list some time ago. A scenario based around this had my old group
split in some very odd ways, but it did encourage in-character
debate.
Finally we could go for the strongest theme of all.
They might hail from Texas and be interested in carrying out justice
upon a criminal who has escaped the death penalty in Texas by being
tried in a "decadent" state where the death penalty is not used.
They only want to carry out some "natural justice" and see that the
will of God is carried out properly!
There's a whole range of stuff you can do with a seriously powerful
group of beings who can be programmed to follow any kind of
religious fundamentalism. Obviously how you use them will be
determined by how far you reckon they will go (kidnap, murder, mind
control...) and what their agenda is.
>Jerry aka
>Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
Stephen McGinness
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:29 1997
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Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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In a message dated 97-06-23 07:15:14 EDT, badtodd@dacmail.net (Todd Hanson)
writes:
<< Well, any comments, suggestions, critisisms? Anybody else want to share
a scenario idea? >>
The final episode of Macross Plus used a similar situation. You might want
to take a look at that for another view. This one had to do with a computer
AI being the performer.
Jason
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:30 1997
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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 06:47:23 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
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Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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S McGinness wrote:
> some light relief. A supergroup based on religion might cause a
> disturbance in the local redlight area as they storm through strip
> joints etc, saving these young women from degradation, and young
> men from the sins of the flesh.....
>
> Slightly stronger, the team may be of a fundamentalist bent (why
> else would they be a problem!!) and have plans about a potential
> Papal visit.....
>
> Stronger again, they might decide to remove various government
> officials who are obviously not fit to be in charge of themselves
> never mind the country, obviously without recourse to the ballot box....
>
> Approaching delicate material would be interference in the process
> of abortions, most religious organisations are against the practice
> and this kind of fundamentalist group might be the opportunity to
> explore the issue in your game (if you're into serious stuff, not
> very four colour this!)....
> There's a whole range of stuff you can do with a seriously powerful
> group of beings who can be programmed to follow any kind of
> religious fundamentalism. Obviously how you use them will be
> determined by how far you reckon they will go (kidnap, murder, mind
> control...) and what their agenda is.
There is another direction this can go, after a while as well. Something
I've toyed with doing but have never done (yet). Introduce this kind of
extremist group, the kind that embodies the worst of the perceptions of
Christians and Christian groups, and let them run rampant over things
(as described above). After a rivalry between them and PCs are
established, introduce a new group, also with Christian/Religous
overtones, but these are all the "softer" side. A healer, a philospher
Martial Artist who found his truth in the Bible, maybe an angel (if that
is a feature of your campaign), a paranormal priest. The kind of people
who believe in a lot of the attitudes that the other 'Christian' team
does, but only if those values are chosen, not forced. This attitude (IE
not forcing your views, "however right they may be", onto someone else)
brings them into conflict with the first team, and the PCs are (somehow)
caught in the middle.
Make for a lot of soul-searching, I'd think.
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain:
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm
From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:32 1997
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Message-ID: <33AE7852.50D5@dacmail.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:21:22 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
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Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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Tokyo Mark wrote:
> Alot depends on how seriously you want the PC's to take the group. No
> matter how serious the above group was shown to be, I'd never be able to
> really take them seriously because of the Monty Python connection.
>
> On good religious group, surprisingly, was done up in the Elementals. The
> characters were given names from biblical scripture, the passage relating
> to their powers. I don't remember the exact names and passages off hand,
> but an example is naming a character Exodus 3:16 (And there was a shroud
> of darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness that could be felt) and
> give the character darkforce powers.
>
> It should not be too tough to dig up my comics and post the exact names
> and passages if there is interest.
Please do - I want this group to be taken VERY seriously. Eventually
there will be some serious confrontations with this group when their
goals conflict (the PC group being under the control of the government,
the religous group being under the control of a fringe church group)
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
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From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:34 1997
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Message-ID: <33AE77D8.1B2B@dacmail.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:19:20 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
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Subject: Re: Mind Control
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Capt. Spith wrote:
>
> The Marilyn Manson Scenario idea has caused me to pose a question
> somewhat in relation to its concept;
> When a PC is mind-controlled, How do you handle it as a GM; does the
> player get to keep playing the character (under new 'orders') or do you
> take over the character until the player can break the control?
> I would have to assume that this depends on what kind of players one
> has; in my group I am exceedingly fortunate that my players are just as
> excited at playing their characters as mind-controlled puppets as they
> are to trounce the villians. I guess the more accurate question is;
> How many GM's have players who can be trusted to play their own
> mind-controlled characters?
I generally explain to the PC (usually privately) what is going on, and
trust them to roleplay it (with an occasional prodding from me if
necessary). I think I could probably trust 4 out of my 5 players to
roleplay their character being mind controlled (and probably love the
hell out of it at the same time) ;)
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
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From ???@??? Mon Jun 23 21:13:36 1997
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From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
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Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:13:38 -0400 (EDT)
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> I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
> Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
> some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
> has;
>
> Mother Superior
> Father Secola
> Cardinal Biggles
> Cardinal Fang
> and Caspar the Holy Ghost
>
> Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
> have a specific theme for their powers;
>
I think the good captain is letting his secular streak show. If
there was a serious group of religous heroes, they wouldn't name
themselves after Monty Python and cartoon characters. Check out
the comic Astro City for the only descent example of a religous
superhero group I've ever seen in comics (called, I think, the
Crossbreed).
I can't think of to many good names for religous heroes offhand,
except Lazurus (after the man Jesus brought back to life). Maybe
they could name themselves after saints...
Saint Peter - He's called the rock on which the Church is founded,
so maybe he could be a brick.
Saint Thomas Aquinus
Saint Augustine
Saint Frances - known for love of animals, so could have animal
control powers.
A slightly less corny idea would be for them to name themselves
after knights of the round table. Given, this is one of the
most hackneyed and overused ideas in comics, scifi, et al. but
it seems almost appropriate.
>
> --
> Capt. Spith
> Savior of Humanity
> Secular Messiah
>
-Eric, neither secular nor a messiah
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:36:17 -0400 (EDT)
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> Please do - I want this group to be taken VERY seriously. Eventually
> there will be some serious confrontations with this group when their
> goals conflict (the PC group being under the control of the government,
> the religous group being under the control of a fringe church group)
>
> Todd
>
Fringe church group? How creative. How come non-fringe church
groups never take any action in comics/sci-fi? And how come
non-fringe religous characters are almost completely absent as
well? This is more a criticism of the current state of the genre
then of you, but don't you think it might be a little more
original to present a non-extreme religous hero group? Ah well,
nevermind...
-Eric
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: The Girl, the Gold Watch, and Everything (was Re: Speed Tricks)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:45:37 -0400
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For those interested in powers of this type, check my Time Manipulation
article at http://www.geocities.com/area51/cavern/1905/haym12.html
Dave Mattingly
From: flacksd@evron.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:07:23 -0500
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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>2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
>use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
>fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
>can do the characters...
>
At the local Sci-Fi convention I found an action fiquire for a comic called
'Warrior Nun Ariela'. (I am not sure about the nun's name as I don't have
it with me.) This comic is about a group of warrior nuns and magical
priests who fight demons and other villians. I have not seen the comic
but I can tell you what I found out from to toy and people at the
convention.
The warrior nuns and magic priests where started by a valkyre who
convereted to christianity. Ariela (?) was the first warrior nun, centuries
ago. When a current warrior nun shows special power she is given the
name.
Warrior Nun Ariela has a sword of great spiritual power. it does extra
damage to demons, and can be set to do stun only damage (so as not to
hurt potential innocents). She has a cybernetic right arm / hand created
for her after a demon ripped her real one off. This arm has one of the
original crystals given to Ariela by the valkyre. The actual powers of the
arm are not specified but it has some. She also wears 'God Armor'. A
powerfull body armour that can make it's wearer nearly invincible, but at
great risk to their soul (mega side effects / disadvantages). Absolute
power corrupts absolutly.
Other characters listed include Mother Superion and Shotgun Mary.
The Warrior Nuns also have support clergy, religous agents as it were,
and contacts at the Vatican.
I hope this gives you some ideas
Daniel Flacks
dflacks@evron.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:32:10 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: Texas?!?!
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S McGinness wrote:
>
> Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@NET.OnRamp>
> >Any ideas on what kinds of things they might do to attract the attention
> >of the local Superteam?
>
> Well the Temperance League (perhaps teh ideal name for such a group)
> have been used on countless occasions within westerns to provide
> some light relief. A supergroup based on religion might cause a
> disturbance in the local redlight area as they storm through strip
> joints etc, saving these young women from degradation, and young
> men from the sins of the flesh.....
>
> Slightly stronger, the team may be of a fundamentalist bent (why
> else would they be a problem!!) and have plans about a potential
> Papal visit.....
>
> Stronger again, they might decide to remove various government
> officials who are obviously not fit to be in charge of themselves
> never mind the country, obviously without recourse to the ballot box....
<edit>
>
> Finally we could go for the strongest theme of all.
> They might hail from Texas and be interested in carrying out justice
> upon a criminal who has escaped the death penalty in Texas by being
> tried in a "decadent" state where the death penalty is not used.
> They only want to carry out some "natural justice" and see that the
> will of God is carried out properly!
>
<edit>
>
>
> Stephen McGinness
OK I think you missed my point..... I was asking about a different
group. Not the religious group but a gathering of Superpowered
20somethings who are neither Heroes nor Villains..... just interested in
having a fun, and to Hell with Normal Society.
However, I like the teired approach...... I can even see that as a
Mini-Campaign... the rise of a "Fellow" Supergroup just might be the
catalist a team needs to become Heroes of Epic Proportions!
And lastly....... HEY! I'm from Texas!! LOL....... Why are the Nutjobs
always from Texas? Aren't there any fanatically religous types in the
rest of the country?..... How come you never hear about the
Biblethumpers in Idaho? ;)
Jerry aka
Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:47:42 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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Eric Burns wrote:
>
> > I have a religious group in my campaign who call themselves the
> > Spanish Inquisition. They are a dangerously serious threat, but I took
> > some of the names from Monte Python's Spanish Inquisition. My group
> > has;
> >
> > Mother Superior
> > Father Secola
> > Cardinal Biggles
> > Cardinal Fang
> > and Caspar the Holy Ghost
> >
> > Though the names may be a little on the frivolous side, they each
> > have a specific theme for their powers;
> >
>
> I think the good captain is letting his secular streak show. If
> there was a serious group of religous heroes, they wouldn't name
> themselves after Monty Python and cartoon characters. Check out
> the comic Astro City for the only descent example of a religous
> superhero group I've ever seen in comics (called, I think, the
> Crossbreed).
Well, I DO call myself a _secular_ messiah, now, don't I? Actually,
I run the type of game which is a little more lightheatred overall than
many, and tend to follow my whims when they hit me. The original idea
for the group was inspired by Python's Inquitsition, but my point was to
offer them to the list for their concepts and themes; I actually had
not intended for their names to used as is by anyone else.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:52:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
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On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
> And lastly....... HEY! I'm from Texas!! LOL....... Why are the Nutjobs
> always from Texas? Aren't there any fanatically religous types in the
> rest of the country?..... How come you never hear about the
> Biblethumpers in Idaho? ;)
Because *no one* really lives in Idaho, an anyone who does wouldn't admit
it! It's like admitting you live in Cleveland (or that you're a
Washington Bull--- Wizards fan).
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:53:19 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Eric Burns wrote:
> I think the good captain is letting his secular streak show. If
> there was a serious group of religous heroes, they wouldn't name
> themselves after Monty Python and cartoon characters. Check out
> the comic Astro City for the only descent example of a religous
> superhero group I've ever seen in comics (called, I think, the
> Crossbreed).
This sounds like what I am looking for. Could I convince you to give me
a quick overview of who is in Crossbreed and their powers? (or, a
pointer to which issues of Astro City would give me a good feeling for
this team)
Thanks!
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:55:02 -0700
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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> Fringe church group? How creative. How come non-fringe church
> groups never take any action in comics/sci-fi? And how come
> non-fringe religous characters are almost completely absent as
> well? This is more a criticism of the current state of the genre
> then of you, but don't you think it might be a little more
> original to present a non-extreme religous hero group? Ah well,
> nevermind...
>
> -Eric
Actually in most games, since the PC's are the forces of good, the
most likely opposition from a religious standpoint are from th
'fringes'. Most 'mainstream' religions are more tolerant and less
fanatic and would be far less likely to send out paranormals to fight.
Besides, there is always the possibility of offending a player, or at
least stepping on someone's toes when a GM takes a 'mainstream' religion
and sets them up as opposition in a game, so making them a little more
extreme makes the situation a little more comfortable for everyone.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:58:45 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Eric Burns wrote:
> Fringe church group? How creative. How come non-fringe church
> groups never take any action in comics/sci-fi? And how come
> non-fringe religous characters are almost completely absent as
> well? This is more a criticism of the current state of the genre
> then of you, but don't you think it might be a little more
> original to present a non-extreme religous hero group? Ah well,
> nevermind...
Maybe 'fringe' was the wrong term. I'm not really basing this on any
established religion or church, but on those little 'christian
coalition' groups that pop up in just about every city. You know the
ones I mean - they appoint themselves our official guardians and proceed
to organize protests, petitions, etc. to shut down or ban anything they
feel is a threat to our morality.
I didn't base this on a 'non-fringe' church group because most
'non-fringe' church groups dont try to force their morals on the rest of
the world (other than their own members of course)
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:01:59 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: An Odd one........
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Here's something I'm sure some of you will appreciate....
As the only person in my gaming group with any artistic ability I get
called on to do drawings of characters all the time. I rarely say no, I
like drawing.
But one of the few times I did say no (last week) led to an interesting
situation. My friend used a Char sheet with an outline and came up with
the most HIDEOUS color combination and design. Not to mention that the
entire costume was totally impractical. The entire group took a look at
this thing and we each had basically the same reaction....... "DAMN!!!
That is UGLY!" My friend liked it tho.......
So my question is twofold:
How much of a limitation is Completely Colorblind? And can a costume be
bought as a physical limitation?
The Group has agreed to go with the majority from the list on this
one......
Jerry aka
Puzzleboy--Foxbat's Best Friend
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:28:07 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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At 12:36 PM 6/23/97 -0400, Eric Burns wrote:
>Fringe church group? How creative. How come non-fringe church
>groups never take any action in comics/sci-fi? And how come
>non-fringe religous characters are almost completely absent as
>well? This is more a criticism of the current state of the genre
>then of you, but don't you think it might be a little more
>original to present a non-extreme religous hero group? Ah well,
>nevermind...
Many years ago I ran an "All Mutants" campaign (this was long before Mutant
File came out). I had the Roman Catholic church take an official stance
that mutants were the "Children of the Devil" and created a group called
the New Inquistion...
The Original Members of the team were based on the 4 Horesemen of the
Apocalypse (Death, War, Famine, and Pestilence) and they were lead by the
Grand Inquisitor. All of these characters had supernatural origins.
The odd part of this was that a number of "Fringe religous groups" sided
WITH the mutants, just to oppose the "Damned Cath-o-licks and thier
Anti-Christ Pope".
In that campaign the Pope really was the Anti-Christ, but that's a
different story...
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:37:36 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: An Odd one........
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:01 PM 6/23/97 -0500, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>But one of the few times I did say no (last week) led to an interesting
>situation. My friend used a Char sheet with an outline and came up with
>the most HIDEOUS color combination and design. Not to mention that the
>entire costume was totally impractical. The entire group took a look at
>this thing and we each had basically the same reaction....... "DAMN!!!
>That is UGLY!" My friend liked it tho.......
I have to ask -- exactly what was this travesty of fashion? I'm trying to
imagine a costume so bad it would be worth points /back/. :]
>How much of a limitation is Completely Colorblind?
If you're talking real color-blindness, it's infrequent, great (+10 pts.)
Just being fashion-blind would be infrequent, slight.
>And can a costume be bought as a physical limitation?
If it provides such things like OCV/DCV penalties, probably.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:15:53 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: icepirat@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: An Odd one........
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>
> Here's something I'm sure some of you will appreciate....
>
> As the only person in my gaming group with any artistic ability I get
> called on to do drawings of characters all the time. I rarely say no,
> I
> like drawing.
>
> But one of the few times I did say no (last week) led to an
> interesting
> situation. My friend used a Char sheet with an outline and came up
> with
> the most HIDEOUS color combination and design. Not to mention that the
> entire costume was totally impractical. The entire group took a look
> at
> this thing and we each had basically the same reaction....... "DAMN!!!
> That is UGLY!" My friend liked it tho.......
>
> So my question is twofold:
>
> How much of a limitation is Completely Colorblind? And can a costume
> be
> bought as a physical limitation?
>
> The Group has agreed to go with the majority from the list on this
> one......
Completly colorblind would freguently come up, but not that much of a
disad.
On the costume: We had a character with one of the most hidious
costumes in one of our games. (purple, light red, with lime green. ech.)
It wasn't much of a limitation in our game, since no disad was taken
with it. He was just made fun of.
The greater the disad, the worse the reaction. A 5 point limitation
would probably just land him on the worst dressed list, comments being
made every so often. Pretty much a role-playing only disad.
If he takes a 20 pointer, then he'll probably get picked on by people
with obscuring attacks, get the fashion police as a hunted etc...
-Mark
p.s. Fashion Police have instant change usable on others, etc...
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:09:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: An Odd one........
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:01 PM 6/23/97 -0500, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>
>So my question is twofold:
>
>How much of a limitation is Completely Colorblind? And can a costume be
>bought as a physical limitation?
I'd call Completely Color-Blind (Achromatic Vision) a 5-point Physical
Limitation; in fact, I've had a couple of characters with that precise
Limitation.
As for a costume being a Physical Limitation, that would depend on what
the costume does. Impairing one's Running, DEX, or other abilities would be
bought-down Characteristics with an OIF. A particularly ugly costume that
looks as though it could be dangerous could be a 5- or 10-point Distinctive
Feature (it's Easily Concealable, but whether it's just Noticed or gets a
Major Reaction depends on just how dangerous it looks).
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:09:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Christian Hero Groups
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
At 06:47 AM 6/23/97 -0600, Curtis Gibson wrote:
>There is another direction this can go, after a while as well. Something
>I've toyed with doing but have never done (yet). Introduce this kind of
>extremist group, the kind that embodies the worst of the perceptions of
>Christians and Christian groups, and let them run rampant over things
>(as described above). After a rivalry between them and PCs are
>established, introduce a new group, also with Christian/Religous
>overtones, but these are all the "softer" side. A healer, a philospher
>Martial Artist who found his truth in the Bible, maybe an angel (if that
>is a feature of your campaign), a paranormal priest. The kind of people
>who believe in a lot of the attitudes that the other 'Christian' team
>does, but only if those values are chosen, not forced. This attitude (IE
>not forcing your views, "however right they may be", onto someone else)
>brings them into conflict with the first team, and the PCs are (somehow)
>caught in the middle.
This is not only a cool idea as written, but either team (or both) could
be quite an interested if the PCs are themselves a Christian group.
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:09:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Mind Control
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
At 01:59 AM 6/23/97 -0700, Capt. Spith wrote:
>The Marilyn Manson Scenario idea has caused me to pose a question
>somewhat in relation to its concept;
> When a PC is mind-controlled, How do you handle it as a GM; does the
>player get to keep playing the character (under new 'orders') or do you
>take over the character until the player can break the control?
> I would have to assume that this depends on what kind of players one
>has; in my group I am exceedingly fortunate that my players are just as
>excited at playing their characters as mind-controlled puppets as they
>are to trounce the villians. I guess the more accurate question is;
>How many GM's have players who can be trusted to play their own
>mind-controlled characters?
You're right; it depends on the players. Most of the folks I've played
with are mature enough to "play stupid" when they know something the
characters don't, when the characters are Mind Controlled, and so forth.
(My favorite anecdote along these lines was in a pre-Fantasy Hero game,
where among the other rather odd characters were a werewolf and a bull-man.
A hidden wizard cast a Mental Illusion on the werewolf, who hadn't eaten in
nearly a day, that where the bull-man stood was actually a side of raw beef.
The chaos that ensued had us all giggling for weeks -- you had to be there.)
On the other hand, I know that many other players I've played with would
probably forget about these things; you'd have to explain things the way the
chars would understand them, and trying to get them to play their chars as
Mind Controlled without the chars realizing that they're being Mind
Controlled and trying to snap out of it... well, in these cases it's better
to simply take control of the character. It's also better in these cases,
in fact, to use Mind Control judiciously; the Marilyn Manson scenario would
be too complicated for such a player. (This isn't intended as a put-down
for new, "immature" players; you just don't get into these sophisticated
situations before a player is ready for it, is all.)
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:09:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Super Kids
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:36 PM 6/20/97 -0500, Todd Hanson wrote:
>
>2. I need some names... the kinds of slightly corny names that a group
>of kids would give themselves. I havent designed the kids themselves
>yet.. I kind of wanted to come up with concepts and names for them. One
>theme I want to stick to is kind of the 'Legion of Super Heroes' thing -
>they each only have 1 basic power and most have NO defenses (which will
>make it REALLY tough for the PCs to capture them without injuring
>them... 'Capt Red-White-N-Blue, just how DO you explain putting that
>little girl in the hospital??')
Of your three questions, this is the only one I feel really qualified to
handle.
Some ideas which spring to mind:
Awesome Dude = Super-Strong Guy
Chill = Cold Powers
Froggy = Super-Leaper
Hot Stuff = Flame Powers
Jazzy Jerker = Fast-Hitting Speedster
Putty Boy = Shapeshifter
You could also try to take names from popular heavy-metal rock groups (of
which none spring right to mind).
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:31:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Larry Woestman <larry@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com>
Subject: pre-generated dice roll programs available
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Hi!
I was playing around and came up with a couple of programs that generate
sheets of pre-rolled dice rolls. The programs also compute the amount
of body that would be done with that roll according to the Hero rules.
The first program just does 3d6's.
The second program does 4d6's through 14d6's.
I have included sample output from each program below. If you want a
copy of the source for the programs (in C) please send email to me.
Larry Woestman
larry@cv.hp.com
P.S. Please ignore my automatic vacation script. It is requred by my
job, but your email will get through anyway. I am monitoring email
while I am on vacation at home.
3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6 3d6
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10,2 10,3 11,3 5,1 11,4 11,4 11,3 15,5 14,5 7,2 14,5
11,3 13,4 9,3 10,3 12,4 11,4 9,2 6,1 18,6 11,3 12,4
8,3 10,3 12,3 9,3 9,3 16,5 4,1 7,2 7,3 16,5 12,3
11,4 10,3 11,3 7,2 12,3 6,3 11,2 14,4 7,2 9,3 12,3
9,2 7,3 7,1 12,3 7,2 12,4 16,5 15,4 14,5 8,3 17,5
16,5 8,2 11,3 14,4 7,1 13,4 8,3 7,2 16,5 9,3 8,3
11,3 16,4 10,3 11,3 12,3 16,4 11,4 13,4 9,2 4,1 14,4
4,1 15,4 9,3 14,4 16,5 13,3 11,3 11,3 16,4 8,2 12,4
12,4 11,3 9,2 10,3 11,3 8,3 11,4 8,3 13,4 12,3 13,4
5,1 6,2 6,2 16,4 10,3 10,3 4,1 15,5 9,3 12,3 10,3
8,2 14,4 12,4 11,3 6,1 14,5 10,3 12,4 4,1 14,3 7,2
12,3 6,2 13,4 9,3 16,5 15,4 10,3 8,3 13,4 9,3 10,3
9,3 14,4 14,4 9,3 10,3 6,2 18,6 16,4 14,4 10,3 13,3
15,5 4,1 14,5 17,5 9,3 10,3 11,3 9,3 11,4 13,4 7,2
10,3 7,3 11,2 7,3 12,3 11,4 5,2 10,2 15,4 15,4 10,3
9,3 13,3 16,5 15,3 13,4 9,2 10,3 10,3 9,3 8,2 8,2
17,5 8,2 11,4 10,3 9,3 11,3 10,3 7,1 9,3 14,4 14,4
13,4 6,1 6,2 7,2 14,4 13,4 10,2 8,2 12,3 10,3 8,3
8,3 11,2 14,3 9,3 9,3 10,3 14,4 15,5 13,4 12,3 9,3
9,2 10,3 11,2 15,5 13,3 13,4 13,3 9,2 8,2 12,4 12,3
10,3 13,4 9,2 11,4 14,4 13,3 10,3 7,3 11,4 9,3 11,2
6,2 12,3 6,2 12,3 6,1 8,2 10,3 16,4 12,3 16,4 6,2
9,3 11,3 9,2 12,3 9,2 9,3 12,3 12,4 6,2 14,5 3,0
8,2 12,3 12,4 7,1 11,3 12,3 8,2 11,3 16,5 8,2 13,3
12,4 7,1 14,4 9,3 15,5 12,3 15,5 7,1 11,3 14,4 6,2
10,2 9,3 10,3 10,3 8,2 11,3 12,4 13,4 10,4 13,4 9,3
13,4 10,3 9,3 7,1 8,2 11,3 11,2 11,3 10,3 10,3 10,3
14,3 10,3 5,2 10,2 7,1 9,3 9,2 7,2 17,5 9,2 11,3
17,5 7,2 12,3 8,2 7,2 12,4 10,3 10,2 11,3 14,4 13,3
11,3 15,4 13,4 10,3 13,4 11,3 12,3 11,3 8,3 13,4 8,3
11,4 8,2 13,3 12,3 11,3 6,1 7,2 11,3 9,3 8,3 9,2
10,4 9,3 8,2 14,3 10,3 10,3 7,2 13,3 8,3 12,3 10,3
12,3 12,3 9,2 13,4 9,2 9,2 8,2 9,3 5,1 13,3 14,4
11,4 10,3 12,4 12,4 16,5 10,2 9,2 9,2 9,3 11,3 8,3
11,3 10,2 11,3 10,3 12,4 5,1 7,2 12,3 9,2 11,3 12,3
7,3 12,3 15,5 10,3 9,3 9,3 11,2 15,5 13,4 16,4 10,4
12,4 8,2 11,3 13,4 9,3 17,5 3,0 12,3 9,3 10,3 8,2
9,2 11,3 10,3 11,3 15,4 9,3 8,2 6,2 11,3 11,2 6,2
12,3 7,2 3,0 13,4 11,3 12,4 12,3 13,4 6,2 15,4 4,1
11,3 5,2 15,5 10,3 15,4 11,3 8,2 11,4 14,4 9,3 10,3
12,3 8,3 9,3 7,1 11,3 11,4 10,4 9,3 10,3 8,2 8,2
9,3 9,3 8,2 8,3 10,3 9,2 10,4 8,2 13,4 15,4 14,5
12,3 9,3 8,2 12,3 9,2 10,2 6,3 14,4 4,1 13,3 9,2
9,2 16,5 17,5 10,2 13,3 15,4 13,4 11,4 12,4 10,3 9,2
6,2 8,2 12,4 13,4 11,3 7,2 13,4 12,4 11,3 7,2 10,3
12,3 9,2 7,2 15,4 12,4 8,2 7,2 11,2 12,4 7,2 4,1
9,3 12,3 8,2 5,1 6,2 14,4 9,3 14,5 10,3 14,3 9,3
13,4 8,2 6,1 10,3 8,3 13,4 10,3 12,3 4,1 13,4 6,2
8,2 8,3 11,3 11,3 8,2 7,3 10,4 14,5 13,4 10,3 13,3
11,4 11,2 11,4 12,3 10,3 14,4 6,1 4,1 11,3 8,2 13,4
14,4 9,3 12,3 13,3 11,3 11,4 5,1 14,4 10,3 9,2 13,4
9,3 13,3 7,1 11,3 11,4 13,4 7,3 11,3 11,3 12,3 5,1
9,3 10,3 10,3 7,2 8,3 5,2 15,4 11,3 15,5 6,3 9,2
6,2 11,2 13,4 16,4 5,1 11,3 10,3 17,5 4,1 7,2 15,4
9,3 15,4 10,2 10,3 14,4 8,2 8,2 8,3 14,4 12,3 6,2
6,1 7,2 11,3 12,3 11,3 12,3 10,3 10,2 14,4 10,2 15,4
5,1 13,3 10,3 7,2 6,3 14,4 12,3 15,4 6,1 9,3 6,2
7,3 10,2 14,3 12,3 18,6 7,2 11,3 12,3 12,3 10,2 10,3
9,3 12,3 6,2 4,1 10,3 12,4 4,1 8,2 13,4 15,4 11,3
7,2 9,3 14,4 8,3 11,3 9,2 10,3 10,3 8,3 10,3 7,1
4d6 5d6 6d6 7d6 8d6 9d6 10d6 11d6 12d6 13d6 14d6
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
9,2 23,6 19,5 19,6 31,8 36,9 30,9 47,13 38,12 48,14 60,18
18,5 17,5 11,3 20,6 31,9 35,11 42,13 34,10 44,13 42,10 47,12
16,4 19,5 17,6 22,7 28,8 23,6 36,9 47,12 45,13 46,11 54,14
14,4 16,4 18,5 26,9 26,7 25,7 32,9 48,13 35,11 46,13 44,13
14,3 17,5 20,6 30,9 24,7 35,9 36,9 42,12 46,13 40,12 45,14
12,4 13,5 20,5 29,8 26,7 32,8 36,8 40,11 44,14 51,15 37,10
17,5 18,4 25,8 26,8 27,8 31,8 47,13 45,13 45,12 46,12 66,19
20,5 23,6 29,8 27,8 22,6 34,11 45,13 38,11 41,12 52,16 33,9
11,3 15,5 27,8 18,5 30,9 31,10 40,11 37,11 54,16 53,17 60,18
12,3 20,6 23,7 25,7 18,6 33,10 40,11 35,10 35,11 44,13 51,15
9,2 13,4 26,7 20,5 26,9 37,12 41,11 40,10 47,16 51,14 38,11
13,4 19,5 24,8 31,10 23,7 40,12 28,8 41,14 39,11 41,12 40,10
8,2 21,6 27,8 29,7 21,5 39,11 38,10 42,10 40,13 40,13 52,13
19,5 12,4 26,7 14,3 33,11 44,11 30,10 41,13 34,11 40,10 49,15
20,6 15,4 19,5 28,7 30,8 26,8 37,10 37,8 48,13 48,13 54,15
16,4 15,5 23,6 17,7 25,7 30,8 34,9 42,11 39,11 49,13 56,16
19,5 19,6 23,7 30,10 21,5 25,7 28,9 29,7 28,8 36,11 52,16
14,3 20,5 26,7 33,10 31,9 22,5 36,9 42,11 45,12 49,16 43,12
19,5 22,6 18,5 27,8 22,6 25,9 31,9 46,14 49,13 50,14 47,14
11,3 17,5 23,7 35,11 35,9 27,8 31,8 39,10 40,14 51,16 47,13
21,6 23,6 17,6 19,5 27,8 33,10 30,9 41,12 52,15 41,11 46,13
9,3 19,5 18,6 27,8 27,6 29,8 29,10 35,10 39,11 43,12 43,14
16,5 13,4 26,7 25,9 16,5 32,9 29,8 34,10 52,15 49,14 49,11
12,3 21,6 17,5 24,8 30,8 35,10 43,11 42,12 43,12 43,13 42,12
11,4 14,4 22,7 29,9 29,9 36,10 38,11 36,12 52,15 47,13 44,13
17,4 14,5 14,5 22,6 28,9 31,9 38,12 31,9 37,11 41,10 44,14
18,5 13,5 15,3 25,8 28,9 27,8 33,10 42,13 49,14 43,9 50,14
16,4 16,3 24,7 21,6 26,8 33,10 38,12 31,9 39,11 50,15 51,14
20,5 19,6 28,7 21,5 19,5 42,11 42,12 32,9 47,15 44,12 47,12
11,3 21,6 21,7 25,7 23,7 28,8 27,6 47,14 34,9 51,16 41,11
18,5 12,3 20,5 19,5 27,7 35,10 35,11 46,13 34,11 42,11 58,17
14,3 18,6 20,6 17,6 25,8 32,9 35,9 39,12 41,12 43,11 51,13
13,4 21,5 20,7 20,6 39,11 31,9 34,8 48,13 42,12 44,13 61,17
11,3 18,5 22,8 23,7 21,6 40,11 31,8 42,12 44,13 46,14 47,13
14,4 22,7 18,6 23,8 17,6 22,6 35,11 29,7 39,10 47,13 61,18
14,4 21,6 24,7 21,6 33,10 35,11 48,15 39,12 39,12 52,15 53,14
13,3 24,7 20,6 32,9 25,7 29,8 38,10 43,13 39,11 39,11 39,13
15,3 22,6 22,6 19,5 36,9 31,8 40,12 46,14 43,11 50,12 51,14
14,4 19,5 17,5 26,7 29,7 37,10 40,12 32,11 42,10 46,14 53,14
23,7 11,2 20,5 25,8 25,8 39,11 36,9 33,9 45,11 44,12 53,14
12,3 17,5 17,5 32,8 29,8 38,9 37,12 40,11 34,10 44,13 46,12
12,3 17,5 25,7 23,6 27,7 23,8 34,13 48,15 32,9 48,13 43,12
15,5 20,6 25,7 25,8 35,9 37,11 37,12 33,9 54,15 43,12 48,12
18,5 18,5 18,6 19,6 34,8 35,10 45,14 43,13 40,11 41,10 41,13
15,4 23,6 15,4 29,9 26,7 28,7 38,11 38,10 34,10 53,15 41,11
14,4 18,5 21,4 26,7 21,6 30,10 39,12 43,11 38,9 45,11 54,15
16,5 17,5 19,6 25,6 25,9 26,8 41,13 36,12 43,13 43,11 57,16
12,3 11,5 24,7 32,9 24,7 36,11 38,12 28,8 44,13 34,9 56,17
17,5 18,6 18,5 18,4 18,4 39,10 39,9 40,12 38,10 51,15 38,10
15,4 16,3 22,6 18,5 27,7 28,7 41,12 39,10 42,11 47,15 57,17
14,4 21,7 19,6 23,8 27,8 24,6 30,10 40,12 31,9 43,13 45,14
13,3 23,8 22,7 24,8 26,7 28,8 34,10 31,8 46,12 35,10 47,16
16,5 13,3 19,5 29,9 20,6 32,10 29,8 35,9 48,14 43,13 57,15
13,4 22,7 19,6 28,7 32,8 34,10 40,11 45,15 48,12 42,12 52,13
15,5 15,4 25,7 30,8 30,8 26,6 28,9 44,13 43,12 49,13 51,16
12,4 14,4 21,7 22,5 20,6 25,8 32,8 32,9 43,12 53,14 46,13
23,7 19,6 21,6 24,7 33,9 28,8 38,10 47,15 38,11 55,16 51,15
14,4 23,6 28,8 20,6 28,8 31,9 40,12 36,10 40,12 45,13 63,17
13,3 22,5 22,5 22,6 22,6 33,9 38,11 37,11 45,13 47,12 51,15
14,5 21,6 27,8 30,9 27,8 29,8 34,11 33,9 39,10 45,12 48,12
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:45:27 -0400
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Newsgroups: october.hero
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Prometheus Corp.
Lines: 15
X-Sender: richberg@nrf-as7s50.erols.com
Nntp-Posting-Host: nrf-as7s50.erols.com
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
herolist wrote:
>
>
> >2. I'm just not as 'up' on my religion as I should be.. I could really
> >use some suggestions for religion based characters for this one. In
> >fact, if anybody can think of some cool names with a religious theme, I
> >can do the characters...
>
> Having been raised in a Fundamentalist Christian environment (Pentecostal
> Church) I can tell you with great authority that they would absolutely not
> have a superteam. Anyone with such powers would be considered "In League with
> the Devil"... sorry...
What, like healing, and universal translator? "Our powers are gifts from God
and miracles. The enemies of society have powers that come from Satan."
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From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:53:47 -0400
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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herolist wrote:
>
> From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
> Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> At 12:36 PM 6/23/97 -0400, Eric Burns wrote:
> >Fringe church group? How creative. How come non-fringe church
> >groups never take any action in comics/sci-fi? And how come
> >non-fringe religous characters are almost completely absent as
> >well? This is more a criticism of the current state of the genre
> >then of you, but don't you think it might be a little more
> >original to present a non-extreme religous hero group? Ah well,
> >nevermind...
>
> Many years ago I ran an "All Mutants" campaign (this was long before Mutant
> File came out). I had the Roman Catholic church take an official stance
> that mutants were the "Children of the Devil" and created a group called
> the New Inquistion...
>
Hm, what did you base THAT stance on?
> The Original Members of the team were based on the 4 Horesemen of the
> Apocalypse (Death, War, Famine, and Pestilence) and they were lead by the
> Grand Inquisitor. All of these characters had supernatural origins.
Were they mutants?
>
> The odd part of this was that a number of "Fringe religous groups" sided
> WITH the mutants, just to oppose the "Damned Cath-o-licks and thier
> Anti-Christ Pope".
Not odd at all, good use of real world "grey" morality.
>
> In that campaign the Pope really was the Anti-Christ, but that's a
> different story...
Ah, that explains it. I thought you were slagging the Pope.
We haven't had racist xenophobic Popes in a while.
(Sexist maybe, seperate thread.)
Now, racist xenophobic fringe Southern "Christian" groups are way too common.
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From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:06:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
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herolist wrote:
>
> And lastly....... HEY! I'm from Texas!!
You have our symphony. No wait, that's not quite right...
> LOL....... Why are the Nutjobs
> always from Texas?
Maybe 'cause you guys actually named a town Waco.
(Keep telling us it's pronounced Way-ko. Yeah, right.)
> Aren't there any fanatically religous types in the
> rest of the country?
Yup. Try any state starting with the letters A through Z, among others.
> ..... How come you never hear about the
> Biblethumpers in Idaho? ;)
I can only assume you haven't been paying attention.
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From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:07:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
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herolist wrote:
>
> From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
> Cc: champ-l@omg.org
> Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>
> > And lastly....... HEY! I'm from Texas!! LOL....... Why are the Nutjobs
> > always from Texas? Aren't there any fanatically religous types in the
> > rest of the country?..... How come you never hear about the
> > Biblethumpers in Idaho? ;)
>
> Because *no one* really lives in Idaho, an anyone who does wouldn't admit
> it! It's like admitting you live in Cleveland (or that you're a
> Washington Bull--- Wizards fan).
What, you don't like Bull-Wizards? Which edition stats are you using?
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:38:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
Reply-To: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: A scenario idea <Longish>
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I thought I'd combine Curtis's (Mhoram) scenario ideas with some
of Jerry's (Puzzleboy) names;
> Something I've toyed with doing but have never done (yet). Introduce
> this kind of extremist group, the kind that embodies the worst of the
> perceptions of Christians and Christian groups, and let them run
> rampant over things (as described above).
But, never forget that they are people, too: they haven't truly
been brainwashed (no matter what some people may say). They have as much
right as anyone to choose what they'll believe. Smart PC's will confront
these type of characters with the implicit contradictions between their
beliefs and their actions. If played correctly, this scenario can make
for some very philosophical role-playing.
Without further ado, here's an example of what I think of as a
"realistic extremist." (Ideas stolen from: Marvel's Punisher and Paladin
characters, and Samuel Jackson's character in "Pulp Fiction")
Paladin ("Have Bible, Will Travel");
Paladin spent much of his life earning a feared rep as a mercenary
and hitman. That is, until his mid-life crisis. After a particularly bad
gig, where he was forced to kill a number of innocent people, Paladin put
away his gun, picked up a bible, and began to "walk the earth"; travelling
the country, using his skills to help people in need. Eventually, he
settled down, got married, and became a preacher. His idyllic life was
shattered when his wife and young child were killed by some DEMON
cultists. He prayed for an answer, and he believes he recieved one.
Paladin is a man in his late 40's. He believes that God himself
has transformed him into his instrument of divine retribution. He now
"walks the earth" again, this time using his guns and considerable
mercenary skills to carry out "God's divine will." He can be found in any
campaign city, performing acts of terrorism for local christian extremist
groups (i.e., bombing abortion clinics or gay bars). He believes he is
totally in the right, and if confronted, can usually justify his actions
with at least three biblical quotes.
Unfortunately, Paladin is not easily labeled: he is not evil
(though he has done evil deeds). He is convinced that what he is doing is
"for the good of God's children." If confronted with the true source of
his convictions (the death of his wife and child), he may very well snap.
His beliefs are all that have allowed him to survive his grief: without
them, he will be lost.
> After a rivalry between them and PCs are established, introduce a new
> group, also with Christian/Religous overtones, but these are all the
> "softer" side. A healer, a philospher Martial Artist who found his
> truth in the Bible, maybe an angel (if that is a feature of your
> campaign), a paranormal priest. The kind of people who believe in a lot
> of the attitudes that the other 'Christian' team does, but only if
> those values are chosen, not forced. This attitude (IE not forcing your
> views, "however right they may be", onto someone else) brings them into
> conflict with the first team, and the PCs are (somehow) caught in the
> middle.
I've done the same thing IMC with Disciple (a character mentioned
in the writeup of Angstrom in Champions Presents #1). They say that
basically he's Defender with a religious theme. That wasn't much a help
for me, so I kept the name and threw out the rest. (Ideas stolen from:
Batman comics, almost any of those Kickboxer/Street Fighter movies,
Ozymandias from The Watchmen, and the Confessor from Astro City)
Disciple ("Snatch the wafer from my hand, my son.");
When Disciple was very young, his father was killed while
competing in the Valhalla Mountain tournament. He spent much of his
adolencence seeking the greatest instructors, so that one day he could
enter the tournament and gain his revenge. As he surpassed his
instructors, he moved on, seeking greater masters so he could continue his
training. Soon he was spending more time looking for teachers than
actually learning, and he had become master of multiple fighting styles.
As part of his education, Disciple would spend a lot of time
reading about great warriors throughout history. After much study, he
noticed certain similarities in the myths of several nations: stories of a
great warrior and philospher who had earned immortality by defeating a
horrible monster. He traced these myths, following them from their point
of origin somewhere in Europe, across Asia, to South America. From there,
the tale blended with history. Spanish missionaries reported converting a
wizend old man, and re-christening him Peter.
Disciple traced Peter to America, where he moved in the 20's. He
finally tracked the warrior to New York, where he was known as St.Peter, a
crazy fanatical bum. Disciple took him in, and now he serves as his
teacher.
Of course, Disciple really has no proof that St.Peter is who he
thinks he is. Many of the exercises St.Peter puts him through (such as
Make Me Breakfast, and Do My Laundry) seem ridiculous. St.Peter also
makes Disciple study the bible, and makes him go into the street to help
unfortunates. However, Disciple is still eager to learn, and has made
St.Peter's belief's his own.
The Disciple now acts as a costumed crimefighter with a religious
theme. He's good samaritan, protector of the weak, and christian soldier
all rolled into one. He's very competitive, and this carries over into
his secualr life. He's perfectly willing spar while debating philosphy.
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: An Odd one........
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "J&JN" == Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET> writes:
J&JN> As the only person in my gaming group with any artistic ability I get
J&JN> called on to do drawings of characters all the time. I rarely say no,
J&JN> I like drawing.
Good for you. I stopped drawing a few years ago and as a result my
technique has gone to crap, and I do not have the time now to relearn all
that I have forgotten, and I truely regret it these days.
[...]
J&JN> Not to mention that the entire costume was totally impractical.
Since when have superhero outfits been practical? :)
[...]
J&JN> How much of a limitation is Completely Colorblind?
Realistically, it is not worth much because it is not that limiting. Even
"black and white" vision will have varying levels of grey, and with a
little practice the combination of grey levels and luminescence can
substitute for differentiation of "color". Additionally, where it is
critical that colors not be confused, like traffic signals, they are
arranged in standard patterns, so that even if one cannot distinguish red
from green -- the most common form of color blindness -- one can
distinguish a "stop" light from a "go" light by the luminescence.
Call it a 5 point disadvantage and hit him with it once in a blue moon. :)
J&JN> And can a costume be bought as a physical limitation?
Ummm... probably not. It might be worth a Distinctive Feature, though.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:44:39 -0300 (ADT)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
X-Sender: tbarrie@drollsden
Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
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On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>
> > And lastly....... HEY! I'm from Texas!! LOL....... Why are the Nutjobs
> > always from Texas? Aren't there any fanatically religous types in the
> > rest of the country?..... How come you never hear about the
> > Biblethumpers in Idaho? ;)
>
> Because *no one* really lives in Idaho,
Indeed they do not. This seems like a perfect opportunity to continue
spreading the following important information, first provided by Alan
Lustiger:
THE "STATE" OF IDAHO: THE CASE FOR OPEN DEBATE
----------------------------------------------
If you would ask any schoolchild how many states there are in the
United States, you will get the same answer: 50. Fifty states
in the Union. It is simply an accepted "fact." If you would
disagree with this supposed "fact," you would be branded insane
or worse.
However, mounting evidence shows that there are in fact only 49
states in the US, and the "state" of Idaho is a baseless myth.
We have been trying to distribute and publish this information
for over *two years*, but our scholarship has not been given
any respect. We have been censored, vilified, ridiculed and
spat upon by the "traditional" geographers and historians, but
WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED!
All we ask is that the existence of the state of Idaho be debated,
as every other historical and geographic "fact" can be debated.
Time after time, our opponents have refused to debate us on the
FACTS. This alone should tell you something about the people who
support the "existence" of this "43rd state."
Please read the following evidence VERY CAREFULLY, and you will be
astonished at the veracity of our cause.
THE POPULATION MYTH
Do you know anybody from Idaho? Do you know anybody *who knows
anybody* from Idaho? According to the 1990 "census," there are
over one million (1,000,000, or 1 x 10^6) people living in
Idaho. But if there are so many Idahoers, where are they?
Some people have come forward and claimed that they were born
and raised in "Idaho." But *every single person* who made this
claim have been shown to be frauds and charlatans. These "Idahoan
wannabes" are invariably inconsistent with each other about the
size (in square miles or square kilometers) of "Idaho," about
various town and village names, and even about the names
of "Idaho's mighty rivers."
THE SIZE FARCE
According to traditional geographic sources (created entirely
by people who believe in the existence of Idaho, and probably
the Tooth Fairy, also) the "State" of Idaho is more than twice
the size of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island,
Connecticut and Massachusetts *combined.* Isn't it strange that
a state with such vast land resources has so few people? And
even of you look at a map (created by the Idaho-centric
cartographers) the "State" of "Idaho" is dwarfed by its much
larger neighbor, Montana.
SATELLITE EVIDENCE
Recently declassified weather satellite information, showing
the entire continental United States, shows absolutely *no
evidence* that there is any state where "Idaho" is supposedly
located. Noted experts in the field of interpreting these
pictures unanimously agree that, from outer space, it is
impossible to determine the borders of this elusive "state."
Yet meteorologists and cartographers routinely overlay
these satellite pictures with the outline of states that
would seem to indicate Idaho's existence.
PHOTOGRAPHIC "EVIDENCE"
Many people, skeptical of the clear evidence that Idaho
does not and never did exist, point to photographs that they've
seen in encyclopedias and postcards seeming to show parts of the
state of Idaho.
It is important to note that a photograph without a caption
is often meaningless. A picture of people in boats surrounded
by mountains could have been taken in Colorado or Nevada,
but when the holy *caption* says that this is a picture of
the "Salmon River" in "Idaho," gullible readers tend to
swallow this information whole *without any further examination.*
We have examined literally hundreds of these "photographs," and
the ones that are not outright fakes are all clearly taken in
other parts of the nation.
ASK THE JAPANESE
It is well known that Americans are woefully ignorant about
geography, which is one reason why it is so easy to fake an
entire state here. Not surprisingly, most of the effort to
create the illusion of Idaho has been expended in the USA.
But if you would ask a typical Japanese or French schoolchild
about what he/she knows about Idaho, you will usually get a
blank stare. People who are much better at geography than
Americans have never heard of this "great state."
THE POTATO MYTH
Any given supermarket in the United States has sacks of potatoes
clearly marked "Idaho Potatoes." People make the assumption, that
when they are buying these potatoes, that they were *grown* in
the "state" of "Idaho."
Actually, "Idaho" is a type of potato, just like "McIntosh" is
a type of apple. The FACT is that *many* states have potato crops,
as well as foreign countries, and potatoes that say "Idaho" on
them are no more from Idaho than Baltimore Orioles all come
from Maryland.
SO, WHAT'S THERE?
Nothing. THERE IS NOTHING THERE. We have been so brainwashed
by the traditional mapmaking community to think that if Idaho
doesn't exist, then there must be some sort of vacuum there
instead. This is nonsense.
The very shapes and positions of the states, and indeed of
every nation on the planet, is only known through "information"
provided by cartographers. It is akin to asking "if Santa's
house isn't at the North Pole, then what's there instead?"
THE CARTOGRAPHER CONSPIRACY
The *only evidence* that there is a state called Idaho comes from
maps. Everybody has maps, in almanacs, in encyclopedias, and
on the walls of every elementary school classroom in America.
Astonishingly, *over 99%* of all maps are created by *cartographers!*
If any clearly defined set of people would control any other
important industry to that degree, everybody would be up in arms
about the undue influence given to a meager few. However, for
some reason, Cartographers are immune to such criticism. Any
mention about the Cartographer influence over the mapmaking
industry (and, as a natural extension, OUR VERY THOUGHTS!) is
dismissed as "lunacy."
As an indication of how insidious is this influence, just think:
have you ever questioned a map? Maps, being graphical objects,
require much less effort to assimilate into our very psyches.
Behavioral studies show that people can much more readily understand
maps than printed descriptions of geographical areas; in fact,
the images on maps tend to go directly into the subconsciousness
of Man (Homo Sapiens) without the critical thinking that accompanies
reading. In a very real way, Cartographers are the *real* Thought
Police.
But they do not work in a vacuum. There are much too few of them
to do their real damage unaided. Mapmakers have conspired with the
editors of almanacs and encyclopedias to create a fantastic illusion
of space where there is none, people where there aren't any, and
ski resorts where none exist.
ONLY THE BEGINNING
This is only the tip of the iceberg. We have much more material
on this conspiracy, and we have yet to uncover one iota of evidence
that Idaho has ever existed. All of the so-called "evidence" is
a mixture of falsifications, coersions, lies and exaggerations.
The Cartographers would like nothing better than to silence us.
If you do not see any more postings on this subject, then you
have clear evidence that their Conspiracy of Silence on Idaho
has succeeded, and that Freedom of Speech has been curtailed by
the Cartographical Thought Police.
What can you do? All we ask is that you be open minded. Of course,
you cannot trust any of the second-hand evidence that you would
find in libraries, maps (!), airline schedules or street signs.
All you can trust is what we have written here. We are confident
that once you evaluate all of the valid evidence, you will be
angered by this conspiracy, and motivated to do something about
the scum who perpetated this hoax.
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:27:00 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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At 06:45 PM 6/23/97 -0400, Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote:
>> Having been raised in a Fundamentalist Christian environment (Pentecostal
>> Church) I can tell you with great authority that they would absolutely not
>> have a superteam. Anyone with such powers would be considered "In League
with
>> the Devil"... sorry...
>
>What, like healing, and universal translator? "Our powers are gifts from God
>and miracles. The enemies of society have powers that come from Satan."
>
I've never seen anyone who claimed to have the "gift of healing", Damn
near every pentecostal "Speaks in tongues", and only the Preachers are
allowed to have the "Gift of interpretting tongues"... but then this is
just my "I got better", cynical viewpoint on a particular religous group,
feel free to ignore it...
Do NOT ignore these fringe religous groups however, they would like to
take away your rights as an American citizen, and make you conform to thier
brand of "right".
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 0:04:41 CDT
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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> At 06:45 PM 6/23/97 -0400, Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote:
> >> Having been raised in a Fundamentalist Christian environment (Pentecostal
> >> Church) I can tell you with great authority that they would absolutely not
> >> have a superteam. Anyone with such powers would be considered "In League
> with
> >> the Devil"... sorry...
> >
> >What, like healing, and universal translator? "Our powers are gifts from God
> >and miracles. The enemies of society have powers that come from Satan."
>
> I've never seen anyone who claimed to have the "gift of healing", Damn
> near every pentecostal "Speaks in tongues", and only the Preachers are
> allowed to have the "Gift of interpretting tongues"... but then this is
> just my "I got better", cynical viewpoint on a particular religous group,
> feel free to ignore it...
> Do NOT ignore these fringe religous groups however, they would like to
> take away your rights as an American citizen, and make you conform to thier
> brand of "right".
As a practicing fundamentalist Christian, a member of an Assembly of God
church, and from a long family tradition of "Pentecostal" ministers, and
(before anyone doubts my credentials) trained as a lay minister (or
exhorter, as the technical term goes), first:
Most of this is bogus - you guys read way too many tabloids, or watch way
too much 20/20. More like "fringe of a fringe" - the only Pentecostal
groups which match up with this perspective are the mountain snake-handers
of Kentucky and Tenessee... Don't stereotype everything you don't understand.
Second, recognize there seems to be as many so-called "Fundamentalist"
groups out there as there are Protestant organizations... For every church
someone has seen in their home town, there's probably a "normal" fundamentalist
denomination. So, a massive group of Fundamentalists might take over a
Denny's on Sunday afternoon, but they aren't likely to take over the US
government anytime soon. (They could unify against the reverse, though.)
Third - would paranormals be accepted by such churches? Probably in the
same way normal churches would accept them - by splintering into several
groups, one denouncing, one tolerant but silent, one accepting but silent,
and one vocally accepting. Let's see - Jerry Falwell is Southern Baptist,
Jim Bakker was "Assemblies of God" (in fact, my father went to Bible College
with him, says he was a great minister till he met that "witch") until they
stripped him of his papers long before the scandal - his ministry was too
outspoken and charismatic for them [oh, that's the great break in the
Pentecostal movement - Pentecostals vs. Charismatics], and Jerry Swaggart
was Assembly of God the whole way through, up until the Louisiana officers
seized his ministry and dropped his papers for misconduct.
Now, note that these three men were all different denominations - in fact,
Mr. Falwell is technically Baptist with Holiness influence, not Pentecostal.
Heh. Anyway, knock it off and fight some drug lords or something, instead
of picking on my faith, at least on the list. Or, if you really want to do
this, ask someone the truth before you run a horrible sterotype...
My grandfather would give birth to a calf before being lumped with a Baptist
on any issue (for those who don't understand English, that's "have a cow").
Donald McKinney
"Fundamentalist Pentecostal" Gaming Convention Chairman
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 02:03:26 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: Travesty (a little long)
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OK here's a look at that Char I spoke of earlier....
While I'm thinking of it..... we decided to go with the 5pt PhysLim for
totally colorblind....
Anyway-----
Travesty is your basic "Peak of Human Abilty" Crimefighter....he uses a
few gadgets like a StunPistol.... a swingline.... basic Batman stuff.
Now we get to "The Costume" (shudder)
the main suit is a body stocking (standard Superhero wear) that is
Prison/ConstructionCone Orange (ok nothing too bad so far)
the mask or cowl is a lovely Peagreen with dark purple stripes the eye
lenses are bright primary blue (anybody feeling queezy?) and is tied at
the back of the head.... the ties reaching all the way to the ground
(tripping hazard & and easily grabbed)
on top of this we have an oversized Swashbucklers hat in Yellow ochre
with a neon pink band, the floppy brim of this hat extends out past the
shoulders while the turquoise plume sticks straight up and is almost 3
feet long (everyone OK?)
the cape (made of shiney vinyl) is cream with deep red stripes on the
interior and the exterior is navy with yellow stars (gag)... the cape
does not rest on the shoulders but is tied around the neck with a round
metal clasp over the throat...... this cloak is long enuff to put Spawn
to shame.... unfortunately this one isn't alive let alone sentient
(approx 15feet long and at least 9feet wide)
the trunks, gloves and boots (also shiney vinyl) are pastel pink with
straps and belts of varied colors (hypnotic isn't it?) the cuffs on the
boots and gloves are so large that a small dog (Benji, Tbone, Spuds)
could ride comfortably..... the boots are supposedd to be thigh high ans
will some times stay there but ususally the fall down around the
ankles.... the gloves have no set place of rest but make a nice flapping
noise whenever a gesture is made
finally we get to the Utilitybelt...... flat balck (he messed up trying
to draw in some details) about the diameter of a hula-hoop this belt
rests on the hip opposite the one for the pistol holster..... the other
side rests somewhere above the knee........ the hoster and accompyning
belt are bright candyapple red.... the pistol is ivory.... this belt
hangs in the same manor as the Utilitybelt.... the pistol has a cable
that connects it to a small powerpack on the utility belt and a cable
connecting it to a clasp around the right wrist..... the pistol is
holstered on the leftside of the body
oh yeah... the part of the face not covered by the mask is bubblegum
pink
I told you it was UGLY.... and the player wants to go with it now....
it's become part of the concept..... I've even agrred to draw this
thing.... without changing anything just refining a crude work
Now...... I see at least 1d6 of Unluck coming from this costume.....
possibley some random damage...... but we did agree as a group to get
some objective opinions and go with the consensus
Well folks..... let me know what you think.... is there a set of
limitations for this guys Dex and Running and such?
Jerry aka
Puzzleboy--FoxBat's Best Friend......... Join us, join us!
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 03:10:18 -0400
X-Sender: nez@pop3.thepoint.net
From: The Nez Master <nez@thepoint.net>
Subject: re: A scenario idea, and a question
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In my play group we have reservist characters, back up characters in case
your regular character is unavailable. Well, since a few weren't being used,
just to get the characters a bit more background, I ran a 'reserversist game.'.
Two of the reservists the players had made were of interest to this thread.
One was Hallelujah. She had all light based powers, and some healing, and
believed herself to be an angel. Actually she was a mutation of sorts, but
she didn't know that, and neither did anyone else. As an angel, she placed
herself somewhat above morality, and as the two game series ran, the player
realized she had created more of a villian than a hero.
By odd coincidence, there was another player who had the same realization
about his character. A gargoyle built into a catholic cathedrel, he was
somehow given enlightenment, and learned the ways of the world by listening
in at the church. Until very recently all his learnings were from church.
The player, without putting it all together, had taken "Lives in a black and
white world" and "Berserk at evil" as disads.
During this 'reservist game they were to investigate a blackout in LA, that
was apparently paranormal. During the blackout they saw some looters. The
gargoyle (named AHHGG), went berserk. Before the majority of players were
aware what was going on, both Ahhhg, and Glory had killed three looters.
Before the game was over, both characters reached some agreements, and
became a team. Due to the nature of the scenario, they took the existence of
certain things as a sing from God that the age of technology was at an end,
and that all electricity was to be destroyed. They formed Hallelugah and the
Glory Warriors, dedicated to returning the world to the ways of God.
They are formidable villians, and both players agree there was no
other logical outcome.
Anyone interested in write ups of these characters, let me know.
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:19:59 -1000
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu>
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Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
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Anyone that lives in Idaho, and is not from there, soon leaves. :)
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu)
--You were spectacular, Bob. But not very effective.
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals.
On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>
> > And lastly....... HEY! I'm from Texas!! LOL....... Why are the Nutjobs
> > always from Texas? Aren't there any fanatically religous types in the
> > rest of the country?..... How come you never hear about the
> > Biblethumpers in Idaho? ;)
>
> Because *no one* really lives in Idaho, an anyone who does wouldn't admit
> it! It's like admitting you live in Cleveland (or that you're a
> Washington Bull--- Wizards fan).
>
> ***************************************************************************
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
> * Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
> * Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
> ***************************************************************************
>
>
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:20:30 -1000
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu>
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Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
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Oh, and Idaho has neonazis and Mormons. That's enough, eh?
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu)
--You were spectacular, Bob. But not very effective.
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals.
On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>
> > And lastly....... HEY! I'm from Texas!! LOL....... Why are the Nutjobs
> > always from Texas? Aren't there any fanatically religous types in the
> > rest of the country?..... How come you never hear about the
> > Biblethumpers in Idaho? ;)
>
> Because *no one* really lives in Idaho, an anyone who does wouldn't admit
> it! It's like admitting you live in Cleveland (or that you're a
> Washington Bull--- Wizards fan).
>
> ***************************************************************************
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
> * Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
> * Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
> ***************************************************************************
>
>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <korthmat@pilot.msu.edu>
From: "Matt Korth" <korthmat@cps.msu.edu>
Organization: Organi[zs]ation? Boy, do you have the wron
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 03:54:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Travesty (a little long)
Priority: normal
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> I told you it was UGLY....
That you did...
> Now...... I see at least 1d6 of Unluck coming from this costume.....
> possibley some random damage...... but we did agree as a group to get
> some objective opinions and go with the consensus
>
> Well folks..... let me know what you think.... is there a set of
> limitations for this guys Dex and Running and such?
How about advantages for when the villians fall all over themselves
laughing? Or when they stop to gape at the costume? :)
--M
--
korthmat@cps.msu.edu http://www.cps.msu.edu/~korthmat
*** People who send me UCE or UBE will be crucified. ***
"Were you always this stupid--or did you take lessons?"
"I took lessons!" --_The Long Kiss Goodnight_
From: S McGinness <smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 09:05:07 GMT
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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Don McKinney <dmckinne@com.csc.csci>
>As a practicing fundamentalist Christian, a member of an Assembly of God
>church, and from a long family tradition of "Pentecostal" ministers, and
Hi Don,
I may have been partly responsible for this as it was me who posted
the actions of a group that I labelled fundamentally Christian. I
am a practising Catholic and coming from the West of Scotland I have
been discriminated against due to my religion. I am sensitive to
these issues. honest!
>Most of this is bogus - you guys read way too many tabloids, or watch way
>too much 20/20. More like "fringe of a fringe" - the only Pentecostal
>groups which match up with this perspective are the mountain snake-handers
>of Kentucky and Tenessee... Don't stereotype everything you don't understand.
Unfortunately stereotyping and using the most easily identifiable
characteristic of a very large group is a norm in media communications.
It is often frustrating for people who have been placed in these groups
but it _is_ useful for people writing in the paper, _and_ for GM's who
want their players to pick up a lot of assumed information with as few
words of intro as possible....
>Second, recognize there seems to be as many so-called "Fundamentalist"
>groups out there as there are Protestant organizations... For every church
>someone has seen in their home town, there's probably a "normal" fundamentalist
>denomination. So, a massive group of Fundamentalists might take over a
>Denny's on Sunday afternoon, but they aren't likely to take over the US
>government anytime soon. (They could unify against the reverse, though.)
I think this is where the loose use of language comes in. I think that
there is an implied "extreme" whenever the term fundamentalist Christian
is used in game terms. If they aren't extreme then they wont actually be
much fun as a villain group. just like most supervillains there must
be something they take to the extreme.
>Third - would paranormals be accepted by such churches? Probably in the
>same way normal churches would accept them - by splintering into several
>groups, one denouncing, one tolerant but silent, one accepting but silent,
>and one vocally accepting. Let's see - Jerry Falwell is Southern Baptist,
Well put. But if we are to see one of these groups in a supers game
which of them do you think we'll see. The quiet ones will not be
there, the vocally accepting will be part of the endgame, but the
ones who shout out against the heroes are the ones that will provide
the players with a challenge and so the ones the GM is most
likely to highlight.
>Heh. Anyway, knock it off and fight some drug lords or something, instead
>of picking on my faith, at least on the list. Or, if you really want to do
>this, ask someone the truth before you run a horrible sterotype...
And all drug dealers are similar? :-). You say drug baron and we all get
a lump of information because of the stereotypes grown up around the
phrase. I don't think most people are here to slag off any particular
religion but I do think that stereotypes are useful, even when they
are the abortion hating, contraception detesting, brainwashed Catholic
sterotypes with nuns and priests in full flow!!!
>Donald McKinney
>"Fundamentalist Pentecostal" Gaming Convention Chairman
And here is where you blast some of the conventions about Christians,
the "they all hate gamers" convention anyway. I think it would be
easier for us as Christians if some of our fellows did not run
around trying to ban gaming!!!
Anyway, I think you would have a good input to all of this stuff
and your background should give you the ability to explore issues
that are important to your faith. i do.
Stephen
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:17:09 -1000
From: Richard Scott <rscott@hawaii.edu>
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There was a bunch of extremist nutso super types a bit like this in a
later run of Elementals.
Richard Scott (rscott@hawaii.edu)
--You were spectacular, Bob. But not very effective.
South Melbourne official when the legendary Bob Pratt failed to win
South's 1934 best and fairest despite kicking a league record 150 goals.
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 06:57:49 -0600
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
Subject: Belief diversity in groups...
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The thread(s) about the Christian adventure/groups has got me to
thinking and wondering.... (scary thought there)
What kind of Belief diversity do the groups that you play in/have played
in have. And what kind of effect does that have on the group, the
adventures and the adventure choices for the GM.
I've played in many different dynamics, and have found that the more
"basically similar" the outlook of the players, the greater the
diversity of plots available. as an example: I have a tendancy to run
philosophic/religous campaign worlds, and having a group that 'believes
in a similar fashion' makes it easier for me to set up certain things
and GOOD and EVIL.
It also mean you have to work less hard not to step on someones toes. 8)
Just wanted to throw the question out for debate (and would like to see
it not devolve into a philoso-religous flame war).
If anyone wants to discuss religious ideas over private E-mail I'd be
happy to, but I figured to keep it off the list. 8)
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
Mhoram's Fantasy Hero Domain:
http://apeleon.net/~mhoram/hero/FHsplash1.htm
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:31:07 -0500
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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At 12:04 AM 6/24/97 CDT, Don McKinney wrote:
>> At 06:45 PM 6/23/97 -0400, Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote:
>> >> Having been raised in a Fundamentalist Christian environment
(Pentecostal
>> >> Church) I can tell you with great authority that they would
absolutely not
>> >> have a superteam. Anyone with such powers would be considered "In League
>> with
>> >> the Devil"... sorry...
>> >
>> >What, like healing, and universal translator? "Our powers are gifts
from God
>> >and miracles. The enemies of society have powers that come from Satan."
>>
>> I've never seen anyone who claimed to have the "gift of healing", Damn
>> near every pentecostal "Speaks in tongues", and only the Preachers are
>> allowed to have the "Gift of interpretting tongues"... but then this is
>> just my "I got better", cynical viewpoint on a particular religous group,
>> feel free to ignore it...
>> Do NOT ignore these fringe religous groups however, they would like to
>> take away your rights as an American citizen, and make you conform to thier
>> brand of "right".
>
>As a practicing fundamentalist Christian, a member of an Assembly of God
>church, and from a long family tradition of "Pentecostal" ministers, and
>(before anyone doubts my credentials) trained as a lay minister (or
>exhorter, as the technical term goes), first:
>
>Most of this is bogus - you guys read way too many tabloids, or watch way
>too much 20/20. More like "fringe of a fringe" - the only Pentecostal
>groups which match up with this perspective are the mountain snake-handers
>of Kentucky and Tenessee... Don't stereotype everything you don't understand.
Bogus my behind! I was raised in this shit!
I'm not saying all of the "fundies" are this way, but all the one's
I'm familiar with are...
>
>Heh. Anyway, knock it off and fight some drug lords or something, instead
>of picking on my faith, at least on the list. Or, if you really want to do
>this, ask someone the truth before you run a horrible sterotype...
>
I'm sorry you feel that I am picking on your religion. In truth I
support your right to be any religion you want - provided that you will
grant me the same...
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:08:07 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
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Earl Kwallek wrote:
>
> Bogus my behind! I was raised in this shit!
> I'm not saying all of the "fundies" are this way, but all the one's
> I'm familiar with are...
>
> >
> >Heh. Anyway, knock it off and fight some drug lords or something, instead
> >of picking on my faith, at least on the list. Or, if you really want to do
> >this, ask someone the truth before you run a horrible sterotype...
> >
>
> I'm sorry you feel that I am picking on your religion. In truth I
> support your right to be any religion you want - provided that you will
> grant me the same...
Umm... guys? I think you're taking this beyond the purposes of this
list. If you want to argue over religion please do it in email.
My scenario wasn't designed to insult anybody's religious views - it was
designed to be entertaining. If the subject matter of the scenario
bothers you, then don't use it, but please don't drag the list into
(another) religious war.
Todd
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Todd Hanson Minnesota: Land of two seasons:
BadTodd@dacmail.net winter is coming, winter is here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 9:28:55 CDT
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> Bogus my behind! I was raised in this shit!
> I'm not saying all of the "fundies" are this way, but all the one's
> I'm familiar with are...
Ok. First, what Pentecostal denomination was your church a member of?
Or, was it an independent church? I've seen all sorts of "bible"
interpretations in "independent" or "non-denominational" churches.
Like the minister who was offended by my "New International Version"
bible - I'll quote here, and this is definitely in support of your
stereotype:
"If the King James Version was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough
for me..."
Sigh. I am always astounded at the uneducated ministers who do this stuff...
> I'm sorry you feel that I am picking on your religion. In truth I
> support your right to be any religion you want - provided that you will
> grant me the same...
Oh, come on; I'll do some other "Christian" stereotypes:
Methodist Man: Slow and boring, normally gets beat because he uses
the same tactics over and over again.
Presbyterian Lad: Insists on taking a vote for the next combat move.
Adventist Girl: I'd save you, but if God wanted you saved, he'd do
it himself.
Episcopal Woman: That's right, even women are allowed to save people
now...
et al...
And about Fundamentalists seizing control of America - even if they did for
just a moment, they would just start arguing over it. No worries here
(I've attended a National Association of Evangelical Churches conference,
and trust me, it isn't happening...)
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:30:25 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: Travesty (a little long)
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At 02:03 AM 6/24/97 -0500, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>OK here's a look at that Char I spoke of earlier....
(*suppressing nausea) Good lord, I'm sorry I asked. :]
>the cape (made of shiney vinyl) is cream with deep red stripes on the
>interior and the exterior is navy with yellow stars (gag)... the cape
>does not rest on the shoulders but is tied around the neck with a round
>metal clasp over the throat...... this cloak is long enuff to put Spawn
>to shame.... unfortunately this one isn't alive let alone sentient
Yes, because if it was, it would undoubtedly strangle him in defense of
itself and the world. ;]
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
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From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: A scenario idea, and a question
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 9:32:01 CDT
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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> My scenario wasn't designed to insult anybody's religious views - it was
> designed to be entertaining. If the subject matter of the scenario
> bothers you, then don't use it, but please don't drag the list into
> (another) religious war.
Crusade, crusade... Besides, we Fundamentalists are supposed to make a
lot of noise and be obnoxious, apparently.
Honestly, though. As a GM, I've had Mormons, Presbyterians, Baptists,
Pentecostals, Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Wiccans and EVEN one
declared Budist (he worshipped "Bud", apparently). Needless to say, I
avoid religious plotlines, except I've had bad guys hold a Mormon conference
hostage once...
DonM.
--
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 351-8250 x2365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@csci.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
============================================================================
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Frictionless
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:50:51 -0400
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In the superspeed discussion, the point was brought up that someone who
runs fast and is able to avoid obstacles doesn't necessarily have to
have super reaction speeds. A frictionless character could slip through
the air with no resistance, and slide around obstacles.
I'm looking for suggestions for other powers for a frictionless
character.
I can come up with movement (running, leaping) and defense (extra DCV,
deflection, STR versus entangles & grabs, etc.) powers, but I would
appreciate ideas for an appropriate attack.
Move throughs and move bys would just slide off the target.
Thrown small objects would start out very fast, since the character's
arm and clenched fist ignores friction, but as soon as the object left
the hand, friction would enter the picture again. This would be a
reduced by range EB.
Are there any other good ideas for frictionless powers?
Dave Mattingly
Subject: Re: Texas?!?!
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 11:36:54 -0400
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net
From: "David A. Fair" <DFair@sdslink.com>
cc: <champ-l@omg.org>
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On 06/23/1997 06:51 PM, Michael Surbrook (susano@access.digex.net) Said:
>Because *no one* really lives in Idaho, an anyone who does wouldn't admit
>it! It's like admitting you live in Cleveland (or that you're a
>Washington Bull--- Wizards fan).
This is getting cruel, i mean, our Wizards haven't even played ONE game
as th Wizards, and local media is already saying the uniforms suck, and
now this.
What's a red-blooded Washington sports fan to do?
.oooO |
( ) Oooo. | David A. Fair
\ ( ( ) | SDS International
\_) ) / | dfair@sdslink.com
(_/ |
From: S McGinness <smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 15:40:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Belief diversity in group
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Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@net.apeleon>
>philosophic/religous campaign worlds, and having a group that 'believes
>in a similar fashion' makes it easier for me to set up certain things
>and GOOD and EVIL.
This is along the lines of what I was saying before. We tend to use
words that will convey a whole range of images and suppositions. The
use of the words may no longer be strictly accurate but they are often
very useful. They work best when everyone is of the same mindset.
>It also mean you have to work less hard not to step on someones toes. 8)
Exactly!
>Just wanted to throw the question out for debate (and would like to see
>it not devolve into a philoso-religous flame war).
That sort of thing _never_ happens on this list! :-)
>-Mhoram
Stephen
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@csci.csc.com>
Subject: Re: Belief diversity in group
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:46:26 CDT
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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> >philosophic/religous campaign worlds, and having a group that 'believes
> >in a similar fashion' makes it easier for me to set up certain things
> >and GOOD and EVIL.
>
> This is along the lines of what I was saying before. We tend to use
> words that will convey a whole range of images and suppositions. The
> use of the words may no longer be strictly accurate but they are often
> very useful. They work best when everyone is of the same mindset.
Remember that many religious view certain things as always EVIL - wanton
destruction of society and mass death, for example; often, discri