Week Ending July 26, 1997
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:08:19 +1000
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From: happyelf! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Signs of the Apocalypse! (was: Mage)
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At 03:19 PM 7/19/97 +0000, you wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:17:19 -0500, Bryan Berggren wrote:
>
>>At 10:29 PM 7/17/97, qts wrote:
>>>>4. A major rpg producer, with a loyal following, abandons them when they
>>>>completely rewrite their game system, saying "The setting sells...".
>>>
>>>Hero, GDW (RIP), TSR (RIP)...
>>
>>1. When, precisely, did TSR completely rewrite their game system? That is,
>>are you referring to 2nd Ed. AD&D or SAGA?
>
>I'm referring to (a) the Complete... series and (b) to the Players
>Options series.
>
u-huh? didn't we just get done about revising game systems? they did way less, man!
i'd call fuzion the worst example ever of this kinda flip-flop- especially with
reguards to the value of the hero system, and the aformentioned 'setting sells, so let's change the rules!' paradox. .
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:09:50 +1000
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From: happyelf! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Signs of the Apocalypse! (was: Mage)
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At 11:53 AM 7/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
> Personal theory: it's one of those "alternate universe" things.
>You encounter ones with good/evil switched, etc. Welll, this happens
>to be a dimension that would _really_ foul up travelers playing the
>"Champs in 3D" book.
>
> Daniel Pawtowski
hmmm. .. anyone out there heard of the . .
GOLDEN HAWKS universe?
now THERE'S an alterative take with style!
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:11:39 +1000
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From: happyelf! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Signs of the Apocalypse! (was: Mage)
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At 03:29 PM 7/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>They're no longer their own masters. Nuff said.
>
>i'm not my own master at the moment (unemployed, financially dependent on
>another). That hardly makes me RIP. :/
>
yeah, but your support is hardly saying things like "is there any
way we can give away a free card with this product?" 24 hours a
day. . . .or are they? *g* *j/k*
>==
>Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
>+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
>+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
> Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
>
>
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:14:02 +1000
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From: happyelf! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Signs of the Apocalypse! (was: Mage)
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At 02:18 PM 7/19/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Hey, I wrote off TSR when Gygax was ousted.
>
>-Nic
>
>
I only started playing when they dumped the bum! *l*
> +------------------------------------------------------+
> | naneiden@iswest.com |
> | Justice, Like Lightning, Thunderbolts! |
> | http://www.iswest.com/~naneiden/comics/thunder.html |
> | Costumed Heroines |
> | http://www.iswest.com/~naneiden/comics/ |
> +------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
ps: is it me, or is black widow going to replace citizen V as the leader of the thunderbolts when/if they 'convert'??? just a thought. . .
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From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:38:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Signs of the Apocalypse! (was: Mage)
Newsgroups: october.hero
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herolist wrote:
>
> From: happyelf! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: Signs of the Apocalypse! (was: Mage)
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> ps: is it me, or is black widow going to replace citizen V as the leader of the
> thunderbolts when/if they 'convert'??? just a thought. . .
No, I really think it's more likely to be Black Widow than you. Good luck though.
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 05:20:25 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
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Subject: Re: Signs of the Apocalypse! (was: Mage)
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David W Toomey sez:
> Having said that, I HATE the way they've twisted EVERYBODY's origin
> around. Creating new characters with these new origins would have been
> ok, that's how I'm actually using them in my game, but why throw out
> everything???
Because Gaming companies - like comic companies - foolishly think
that they have found a way to keep the 'old market' (by keeping
[technically] the old characters), but by rewriting/reconceiving them in
'today's' style of useless murderous heroes. Of course, it never works,
but they keep doing it anyway. Just look at the whole couple of years
woth of clone bulsh*t they've done with/to Spiderman. I'm a Die-Hard
Spidey-Fan, but have been really p*ssed off with the direction they've
gone for a looong time; and simply for the sake of trying to appeal to a
new audience (and apparently assuming the old audience will stay no
matter how they screw things up).
BTW, I use the Champions (Fourth ed.) with alternate origins _anyway_
so while the concept rather reeks, logistically that particular
application wouldn't actually affect me so much....
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
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From: "Marc Seebass" <kitsune-bi@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Nibiki
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 97 10:49:33 PDT
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Hiya, I know someone did a write up for Nibiki and posted it some time ago. Could I have a copy?
X-Sender: wbandsis@mail.westco.net
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 14:03:10 -0400
From: Charles Badger <wbandsis@westco.net>
Subject: Re: Nibiki Tendo
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This the one you're looking for MArc Seebass?
At 11:09 07/05/96 -0400, Marc Seebass wrote:
>
>
>On Fri, 5 Jul 1996, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 4 Jul 1996, Marc Seebass wrote:
>>
>> > Has anyone done stats on Nabiki Tendo. I'm trying to get her as a DNPC as
>> > my characters Buisness Manager in a PBEM, and it would probably save a
>> > lot of time if someone already had her writen up, or was willing to write
>> > her up. Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Nabiki would have (IMO) rather normal stats for a 17 year old girl (8 STR,
>> 10 CON, 2 SPD etc). I would give her a good (ie. 13 to 18) INT, EGO
>> & PRE and a COM of 12 to 14. She should have skills like: Persuasion, KS:
>> Finance, Shadowing, Stealth, High Society etc. Based on the setting you
>> are describing, I'd give her Bribery, Bureaucratics, KS: Business
>> Management, PS: Business Manager, Forgery and Seduction as well. Oh yeah,
>> don't forget at least 10 points of Wealth.
>Okay all you Otaku, lets get involved. THis could be fun.
> Were talking an adult version of her, and for a high level campaing.
>So I'm overestimating a little bit on the stats.
> cost
>13 STR 3 (She is a Tendo and she does work out)
>15 DEX 15 (See above)
>18 CON 16 (Well, this is a bit high. But not superhuman)
>18 Body 16 (This is will to live.)
>18 INT 8 (Maybe not in IQ scale, but it's works out this way with
> perception and skill levels.)
>18 EGO 16 (I think she has a strong will. I'm open to discussion though,
> that's why I'm posting.)
>21 PRE 12 (Nabiki is good at convincing people, a high prescene
> represents her ability to manipulate.)
>16 COM 3 (20 if the view is a lag man)
> 4 PD 1
> 4 ED 0
> 4 SPD 15 (She thinks and acts quickly)
> 7 REC 0
>36 END 0
>31 Stun 0
>
>
>skills
>Acting -18
>Persuasion -18
>Conversation -18
>High Society -15
>Seduction -18
>Bribery -14
>Stealth -14
>PS: Photography -12
>Trading -18
>KS: Finanace -15
>KS: Music Industry -14
>Minor Martial Arts package that I don't have time to work out now.
>
>Perk Wealth 10
>Dissads
>5 DF Fantastic Legs. EC
>15 Psyc Lim Greedy CS
><Can't think of any more right offhand>
>
>
-----
Charles T. Badger
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From: "Stephen B. Mann" <sm6439@cnsvax.albany.edu>
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:38:12 -0400
Subject: Spell-like abilities
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I'm starting a Fantasy Hero game and have a problem making up my
mind about something. In this game, I've got people who have spell-like
abilities that can be suppressed by certain spells. There also people
who's powers are not suppressable by magic. I want to give the
"spell-like abilities" people a small point break, so do I:
1) give the s-la people a limitation (suppressable)
or
2) give the other group an advantage (not suppressable)
and
3) how much of a point break (1/4 or 1/2)? These suppression spells are
common, but not a dime a dozen.
--
Stephen B. Mann sm6439@cnsvax.albany.edu
SUNY Learning Network http://sln1.esc.edu
From: John.Desmarais@ibm.net
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 97 10:59:13
Subject: Re: Invisible Question
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In <199707211415.KAA20258@usmcug.usm.maine.edu&> on 07/21/97
at 10:15 AM, Eric Burns <burns@usmcug.usm.maine.edu> said:
>If you hit someone with an Ego Attack, Energy Blast, or whatever that has
>the Invisible power advantage, will he, she, or it know he, she, or it
>has been attacked? Could you make a continuous Ego Attack that works as
>a sleep spell. lulling the target to sleep? Or would you need to use
>mind control?
Yes, the target will know they have been attacked, they simply won't know
from where or by whom (unless they have some special sense to "see" the
invisible power effect). Even though I don't think it's actually stated
in the rules, it has always been my opion as a GM that Ego Attacks hurt.
OTOH, I would (although some GMs probably would not) allow a drain or
transfer to be used to painlessly put a target to sleep.
>And also, a general question on mental powers: does the LOS range limit
>apply for maintaining a telepathic contact, mental illusions, or
>whatever, or just to initialize it? That is to say, could you start to
>read someone's mind while you are in the same room with them, and then
>leave the room and continue to read their mind?
I've always run mental powers such that once you had a lock, as long as
you maintained the power, you maintained the lock.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
John.Desmarais@ibm.net
-----------------------------------------------------------
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Invisible Question
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:15:12 -0400 (EDT)
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If you hit someone with an Ego Attack, Energy Blast, or whatever
that has the Invisible power advantage, will he, she, or it know
he, she, or it has been attacked? Could you make a continuous
Ego Attack that works as a sleep spell. lulling the target to
sleep? Or would you need to use mind control?
And also, a general question on mental powers: does the LOS range
limit apply for maintaining a telepathic contact, mental illusions,
or whatever, or just to initialize it? That is to say, could you
start to read someone's mind while you are in the same room with
them, and then leave the room and continue to read their mind?
-Eric
a.k.a. Turkey Volume Guessing Man (tm)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:11:46 -0500
From: Joel Vallejo <jvallejo@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jvallejo@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Invisible Question
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Eric Burns wrote:
>
> If you hit someone with an Ego Attack, Energy Blast, or whatever
> that has the Invisible power advantage, will he, she, or it know
> he, she, or it has been attacked? Could you make a continuous
> Ego Attack that works as a sleep spell. lulling the target to
> sleep? Or would you need to use mind control?
>
An ego attack is already invisible to most senses. Making it invisible
to mental awareness or the victim will render it invisible to the victim
of the ego attack. As for other attacks, my understanding is that they
all have some type of effect that makes them visible to normal senses,
such as a blazing blue light, some type of sound effect, etc. You could
buy the invisible power advantage to all senses, but that would be
really expensive. I have always allowed my players to make a perception
roll with appropriate modifiers for surprise, distance, cover, etc. in
this type situation.
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:31:33 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Alternate Universes (was: Signs of the Apocalypse!)
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At 11:53 AM 7/19/97 -0400, Daniel Pawtowski wrote:
>>
>> Having said that, I HATE the way they've twisted EVERYBODY's origin
>> around. Creating new characters with these new origins would have been
>> ok, that's how I'm actually using them in my game, but why throw out
>> everything???
>
> Personal theory: it's one of those "alternate universe" things.
>You encounter ones with good/evil switched, etc. Welll, this happens
>to be a dimension that would _really_ foul up travelers playing the
>"Champs in 3D" book.
This happens to be precisely the use I intend to put my copy of CNM (when
I get one).
"Who are you?"
"I'm Quantum."
"Quantum? Interesting new outfit."
"New? It's the same one I've worn for four years now."
I can just drop the Justifiers in there in early 2000, and probably start
things out with the included scenario.
---
This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:31:35 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Alternate Universes (was: Signs of the Apocalypse!)
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At 11:09 AM 7/20/97 +1000, happyelf! wrote:
>> Personal theory: it's one of those "alternate universe" things.
>>You encounter ones with good/evil switched, etc. Welll, this happens
>>to be a dimension that would _really_ foul up travelers playing the
>>"Champs in 3D" book.
>
>hmmm. .. anyone out there heard of the . .
>GOLDEN HAWKS universe?
>now THERE'S an alterative take with style!
http://users.intercomm.com/redwolf/scm/original.html :-]
---
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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:04:02 +1000
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From: happyelf! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Signs of the Apocalypse! (was: Mage)
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At 01:10 PM 7/22/97, you wrote:
>At 05:20 AM 7/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
>> Because Gaming companies - like comic companies - foolishly think
>>that they have found a way to keep the 'old market' (by keeping
>>[technically] the old characters), but by rewriting/reconceiving them in
>>'today's' style of useless murderous heroes. Of course, it never works,
>>but they keep doing it anyway. Just look at the whole couple of years
>>woth of clone bulsh*t they've done with/to Spiderman. I'm a Die-Hard
>>Spidey-Fan, but have been really p*ssed off with the direction they've
>>gone for a looong time; and simply for the sake of trying to appeal to a
>>new audience (and apparently assuming the old audience will stay no
>>matter how they screw things up).
>
>really? i think that characters can change- and their change was
>cool, the method (yeasr of clone-junk) was not, and they should
>have left them both alive- two spideys, that woulda been cool! *g*
>
>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:17:22 +1000
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From: happyelf! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Alternate Universes (was: Signs of the Apocalypse!)
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At 10:31 AM 7/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>At 11:09 AM 7/20/97 +1000, happyelf! wrote:
>>> Personal theory: it's one of those "alternate universe" things.
>>>You encounter ones with good/evil switched, etc. Welll, this happens
>>>to be a dimension that would _really_ foul up travelers playing the
>>>"Champs in 3D" book.
>>
>>hmmm. .. anyone out there heard of the . .
>>GOLDEN HAWKS universe?
>>now THERE'S an alterative take with style!
>
>http://users.intercomm.com/redwolf/scm/original.html :-]
>---
>This mail was sent from the Corvallis Public Library
>
>
doh, i really should have put this in myself- the reason i mentioned it is
it manages to be different- with none of the 'oo ahh' type epoch crap of things like C:tnm: ie, it doesn't seek to say "this is not the bad old normal setting, look at all the radical variations we make! for instance, we have 40% more spikes! all our hero's wear mirroshades! " *lol* ect, ect. 'course, that's just my opinion.
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 00:38:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Women in Gaming Mailing List <wig@list.pitt.edu&>
Weasel Attack!!!" <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: New Web Page!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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I'm pleased to announce the grand opening of my new wepage. Located at:
http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html
It is meant to serve as a resource for Hero System 4th edition. It will
eventually include all of my assorted character adaptions, as well
as gadgets, worldbooks and misc articles. There are a few things up right
now, so drop by and tell me what you think.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:02:22 +0000
Subject: Re: Hero Web Page?
Reply-to: filkhero@usa.net
Priority: normal
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> I know you guys said that the new page would be up soon, but I was
> wondering if it was actually going to be up before GenCon?
>
InterNEC, the people in charge of domain names, have messed up
royally lately, and www.herogames.com has been one of their victims.
Hang on, and cross your fingers.
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:51:52 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Signs of the Apocalypse! (was: Mage)
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happyelf! sez:
> > I'm a Die-Hard
> >Spidey-Fan, but have been really p*ssed off with the direction they've
> >gone for a looong time; and simply for the sake of trying to appeal to a
> >new audience (and apparently assuming the old audience will stay no
> >matter how they screw things up).
>
> really? i think that characters can change- and their change was
> cool, the method (yeasr of clone-junk) was not, and they should
> have left them both alive- two spideys, that woulda been cool! *g*
That was actually my main problem; they kept setting up what *could*
have been really interesting situations, then bailing on the concepts to
try to still 'keep everything the same again'. It seemed to be that
they were making change for the sake of making change rather than
actually trying for legitimate character development.
I have no problem with unusual character/story development if it's
done sincerely, but what burns me is when comics/games/etc. change
things simply to become more superficially marketable; it doesn't work,
because it's not motivated by concern over quality.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:07:39 -0400
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From: Patrick Barden <absga@elbertonga.com>
Subject: Urban Myth: Headcase
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I am adding one more member to my Urban Myth villian group. I am not sure
what is the most practical way of building his main power.
Headcase has the ability to transfer minds. Here is how I want it to work.
Flunky A falls asleep at headcase's request. Headcase then replaces his
targets mind with the mind of the flunky so that the flunky can use the
targets powers to committ whatever dastardly deed Headcase wants done. I am
leaning towards an ego transfer with the flunky's ego being transfered into
the target while the target's ego is drained off. The switch of minds would
be the special effect. Can anyone think of a simpler or more effective way
to do this.
Oh by the way I have finally given the team a name:
The Midnight Hand
I hope to have a finished write up in the next few weeks. I seem to be
stuck on writing an effective version of The Living House.
Patrick B.
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: Urban Myth: Headcase
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:04:39 -0400
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Major Transform: Your body with my mind
Side Effect -1/2: My body with your mind
Dave Mattingly
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:15:52 -0500
From: Joel Vallejo <jvallejo@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jvallejo@bellsouth.net
Subject: Hero Web Page?
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I know you guys said that the new page would be up soon, but I was
wondering if it was actually going to be up before GenCon?
Joel Vallejo
"I've got your new world order right Here."
-Weatherman One, Stormwatch #37
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/8456/
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 01:37:11 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: move thru vs force wall
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Is the list still up? I havent received any messages from it all day...
Anyway, assuming it IS up, I've got a question for the list:
The situation:
Flying-strong-guy sees the hated Mind-Mistress across the battlefield,
all alone and unprotected. He charges at her, intent on doing bodily
harm with his mega-dice move through. What he doesnt know is that
Mind-Mistress has a held action, and uses it to erect her impenatrable
(sp) force wall directly in his path. (for the purposes of this
example, assume that the wall is put up close enough in front of him
that he can't avoid it)
Now the question: What are Flying-Strong-Guy's options? If he hits the
force wall, how much damage does he take (assume str=60, flight=21")?
How I intend to handle it:
Flying-Strong-Guy can make a choice:
1) he can attempt to casual strength his way through the force wall. If
he succeeds, he takes no damage (or half damage, which will be
effectively no damage) and can continue his action. If he fails, he
takes full damage as if he had done a move thru on a non-moving object
at half str (ie. 6d6 for the str plus 7d6 for the flight=13d6 total) In
this case I would give him the full 13d6 to attempt to break through the
force wall. I MIGHT even be nice and give him the option of
decelerating for a hex and only use 16" of flight.
2) he can attempt to do a full strength move through on the force wall -
same situation as above, but with increased chance of succeeding (and
increased risk as well - if he DOESNT break through the force wall, he
will take the full 12d6 str + 7d6 flight=19d6 damage!)
3) he can use zero strength (and even decelerate (sp) for a hex down to
16" of flight) and take the piddly 5d6 damage (but have little chance of
breaking through the force wall) and end his action.
Does the above sound fair? Any suggestions? I am pretty sure that the
above situation will take place - the move through is
Strong-Flying-Brick's favorite maneuver, and the team will be facing a
team that has had a chance to study the PC team's combat style so they
will be ready for the PCs favorite 'tricks'.
Todd
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 07:57:44 GMT
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From: smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk (Steve McGinness)
Subject: Re: Urban Myth: Headcase
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At 02:07 PM 22/7/97 -0400, Patrick Barden wrote:
>the target while the target's ego is drained off. The switch of minds would
>be the special effect. Can anyone think of a simpler or more effective way
>to do this.
Surely Mind Control, usable by others....
>Patrick B.
>
Stephen McGinness
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 03:12:16 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: move thru vs force wall
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Todd Hanson wrote:
> How I intend to handle it:
>
> Flying-Strong-Guy can make a choice:
>
> 1) he can attempt to casual strength his way through the force wall. If
> he succeeds, he takes no damage (or half damage, which will be
> effectively no damage) and can continue his action. If he fails, he
> takes full damage as if he had done a move thru on a non-moving object
> at half str (ie. 6d6 for the str plus 7d6 for the flight=13d6 total) In
> this case I would give him the full 13d6 to attempt to break through the
> force wall. I MIGHT even be nice and give him the option of
> decelerating for a hex and only use 16" of flight.
>
> 2) he can attempt to do a full strength move through on the force wall -
> same situation as above, but with increased chance of succeeding (and
> increased risk as well - if he DOESNT break through the force wall, he
> will take the full 12d6 str + 7d6 flight=19d6 damage!)
>
> 3) he can use zero strength (and even decelerate (sp) for a hex down to
> 16" of flight) and take the piddly 5d6 damage (but have little chance of
> breaking through the force wall) and end his action.
>
> Does the above sound fair? Any suggestions? I am pretty sure that the
> above situation will take place - the move through is
> Strong-Flying-Brick's favorite maneuver, and the team will be facing a
> team that has had a chance to study the PC team's combat style so they
> will be ready for the PCs favorite 'tricks'.
Well, as far as I see your basic mechanics seem right for the
different situations, but I would add a 'surprise' modifier to limit his
ability to choose; I would say a DEX vs. PER check. Evil Mind Maid
would roll her DEX roll (I would even allow combat levels to be applied
for the sake of timing the force wall's creation), then FlyingStrongGuy
would a) make a PER-roll-as-OCV vs. EvilMindMaid's DEX-roll-as-DCV. If
FSG "hits" then he would have a second to choose his response. If he
"misses", then it's just option 2, no questions asked.
IE; EMM makes her DEX roll by 5 when popping up her Force Wall - FSG
makes a PER roll, but only makes it by 1 to see it in time. EMM's
success was greater, so managed to surprise FSG enough to give him no
chance to change his plans. This could get messy....
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Urban Myth: Headcase
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:14:52 -0400 (EDT)
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> Headcase has the ability to transfer minds. Here is how I want it to work.
> Flunky A falls asleep at headcase's request. Headcase then replaces his
> targets mind with the mind of the flunky so that the flunky can use the
> targets powers to committ whatever dastardly deed Headcase wants done. I am
> leaning towards an ego transfer with the flunky's ego being transfered into
> the target while the target's ego is drained off. The switch of minds would
> be the special effect. Can anyone think of a simpler or more effective way
> to do this.
>
How about a Transform?
Or, and this is a bit overcomplicated:
Mind Control: usable against others (to make your target mind control your
other target) bought twice with the second one linked.
Telepathy: only to ask question "what are you sensing", usable against
others bought twice with the second one linked.
Or, just write your own Mind Swap power. GM's can do that ;-).
> Oh by the way I have finally given the team a name:
> The Midnight Hand
>
Neat name.
> I hope to have a finished write up in the next few weeks. I seem to be
> stuck on writing an effective version of The Living House.
>
> Patrick B.
>
>
-Eric
aka Turkey Volume Guessing Man (tm)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:19:14 -0400
From: seleena@fred.net (E. David Miller)
Subject: Re: Urban Myth: Headcase
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
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>I am adding one more member to my Urban Myth villian group. I am not sure
>what is the most practical way of building his main power.
>
>Headcase has the ability to transfer minds. Here is how I want it to work.
>Flunky A falls asleep at headcase's request. Headcase then replaces his
>targets mind with the mind of the flunky so that the flunky can use the
>targets powers to committ whatever dastardly deed Headcase wants done. I am
>leaning towards an ego transfer with the flunky's ego being transfered into
>the target while the target's ego is drained off. The switch of minds would
>be the special effect. Can anyone think of a simpler or more effective way
>to do this.
>
>Oh by the way I have finally given the team a name:
>The Midnight Hand
>
>I hope to have a finished write up in the next few weeks. I seem to be
>stuck on writing an effective version of The Living House.
>
>Patrick B.
Not to be a pain in the @$$, but why not build the way it sounds: Mind
Control, Usable By Others?
David Miller
___________________________________________________________________________
| seleena@bigdog.-> |There are 3 temporal dimensions, just as there are 3 |
| ->fred.net |spatial; T, the passage of time; Tau, the changes in |
|-------------------|possible outcomes/decisions; Teh, the alternate bases|
| E. David Miller |of reality. Thus, all that ever has been dreamed, |
|-------------------|IS, somewhen. And somewhen, we are all simply a |
|Faith, and Dreams. |dream. Or, by perspective, a nightmare. |
|___________________|_____________________________________________________|
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Information Gathering Powers (TVGM)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:39:50 -0400 (EDT)
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I was watching Mystery Science Theater 3000 the other day and one of the
skits involved Crow T. Robot declaring himself a superhero, Turkey Volume
Guessing Man! His power was to accurately guess how many turkeys would
be needed to fill any given volume (if you don't watch MST3K, you probably
are shaking your head right now and muttering, "what a dork, who let this
joker on the champs list...").
Anyway, this got me thinking. Exactly how would you build this sort of
power? Detect seems like it is for a sense that returns a boolean value
("this is gold", or "this is not gold"). Detect with discriminating sense
and range, maybe? Awfully expensive for a relatively weak power (offset
by "distinguishing feature: is always talking about turkeys"?). On a
slightly less neurotic note, what about special senses or information
gathering powers that are invasive. For instance, what about the power to
detect the exact age of any living creature, accurate to the day? Could
this be done in enhanced senses, or would you need telepathy?
Oh, and I promise you that as soon as I have the time to type it up, I
will post the transcript to the MST3k TVGM skit. I think you folks would
appreciate the humor (at least, I _hope_ so...).
-Eric
aka Turkey Volume Guessing Man
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:04:18 -0400
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: Information Gathering Powers (TVGM)
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> His power was to accurately guess how many turkeys would
> be needed to fill any given volume
> Anyway, this got me thinking. Exactly how would you build this sort of
> power? Detect seems like it is for a sense that returns a boolean value
> ("this is gold", or "this is not gold"). Detect with discriminating sense
> and range, maybe? Awfully expensive for a relatively weak power (offset
> by "distinguishing feature: is always talking about turkeys"?). On a
> slightly less neurotic note, what about special senses or information
> gathering powers that are invasive. For instance, what about the power to
> detect the exact age of any living creature, accurate to the day? Could
> this be done in enhanced senses, or would you need telepathy?
[house rule alert]
IMO, Enhanced Senses are the way to do this sort of thing, but as you note,
the HSR Enhance Senses section gives you unbalanced costs (just like if you
try to build a radio using Detect). I wrote house rules for senses, available
at http://oasis.ot.com/~myrrh/senses.html. Here's how I would use those rules
to write this up, and how much it would cost.
I'll assume the sense works in such a way that you have to see an area to
gauge it's turkey-holding potential: if you're blinded, the sense doesn't
work.
Clearly, this sense is rated as Cheap, unless you are playing in a very
/weird/ game where turkey volume filling is vital. Thus, the elements below
are not going to cost much:
Sense Volume, Range, Discriminatory: 3 points. No Blockage Advantage.
Limitations:
Discriminatory only gives "turkey measurement": -1/2
Linked to Sight: -1/2
Final Cost: 1 point. I think that's about right. :-)
Geoff Speare
X-Sender: champion@mailhost.cyberhighway.net
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:26:19 -0700
From: Jim Dickinson <champion@cyberhighway.net>
Subject: Re: move thru vs force wall
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At 01:37 AM 7/23/97 -0500, Todd Hanson wrote:
>Is the list still up? I havent received any messages from it all day...
>
>Anyway, assuming it IS up, I've got a question for the list:
>
>The situation:
>
>Flying-strong-guy sees the hated Mind-Mistress across the battlefield,
>all alone and unprotected. He charges at her, intent on doing bodily
>harm with his mega-dice move through. What he doesnt know is that
>Mind-Mistress has a held action, and uses it to erect her impenatrable
>(sp) force wall directly in his path. (for the purposes of this
>example, assume that the wall is put up close enough in front of him
>that he can't avoid it)
Well, I'd always give the Brick a DEX roll to avoid it. Or at least make the Brick do a DEX v DEX roll against the Mistress.
>Now the question: What are Flying-Strong-Guy's options? If he hits the
>force wall, how much damage does he take (assume str=60, flight=21")?
If he fails to "avoid the wall" I'd give him two choices. He can take on the wall with Casual STR, or he can attack the wall. Attacking the wall will force him to waste his action on the wall, while Casual STR might allow him to proceed with his Move Through.
Jim
_________________________________________________________________
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland. OR USA -=- champion@cyberhighway.net
Castle Game Knight: http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/cgk
Join the Circle of HEROs: http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/coh
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:44:07 -0700
From: Jim Dickinson <champion@cyberhighway.net>
Subject: Re: Urban Myth: Headcase
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
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At 11:19 AM 7/23/97 -0400, E. David Miller wrote:
>>I am adding one more member to my Urban Myth villian group. I am not sure
>>what is the most practical way of building his main power.
>>
>>Headcase has the ability to transfer minds. Here is how I want it to work.
>>Flunky A falls asleep at headcase's request. Headcase then replaces his
>>targets mind with the mind of the flunky so that the flunky can use the
>>targets powers to committ whatever dastardly deed Headcase wants done. I am
>>leaning towards an ego transfer with the flunky's ego being transfered into
>>the target while the target's ego is drained off. The switch of minds would
>>be the special effect. Can anyone think of a simpler or more effective way
>>to do this.
>>
>>Oh by the way I have finally given the team a name:
>>The Midnight Hand
>>
>>I hope to have a finished write up in the next few weeks. I seem to be
>>stuck on writing an effective version of The Living House.
>>
>>Patrick B.
>
>Not to be a pain in the @$$, but why not build the way it sounds: Mind
>Control, Usable By Others?
I think people have missed the point -- or maybe it's me that has! Let's see:
Headcase takes Person A and Person B. A is the "Flunky", I am guessing by the description that the flunky is working for Headcase, and B is the Hero. Headcase swaps the minds of A and B so that the Flunky can now use the Hero's body to do whatever flunky's do.
Seems like the only real way to do this sort of thing is with a transformation attack. Si? or No?
Jim
_________________________________________________________________
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland. OR USA -=- champion@cyberhighway.net
Castle Game Knight: http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/cgk
Join the Circle of HEROs: http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/coh
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Attachment Converted: "g:\eudora\attach\Re Urban Myth Headcase"
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:46:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Information Gathering Powers (TVGM)
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On Wed, 23 Jul 1997, Eric Burns wrote:
> I was watching Mystery Science Theater 3000 the other day and one of the
> skits involved Crow T. Robot declaring himself a superhero, Turkey Volume
> Guessing Man! His power was to accurately guess how many turkeys would
> be needed to fill any given volume (if you don't watch MST3K, you probably
> are shaking your head right now and muttering, "what a dork, who let this
> joker on the champs list...").
Personally, I liked Crows otehr desired superhero power:
"I get to decide who lives and who dies"
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: Information Gathering Powers (TVGM)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:09:52 -0400
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>Turkey Volume Guessing Man! His power was to accurately guess how
> >many turkeys would be needed to fill any given volume
> >Anyway, this got me thinking. Exactly how would you build this sort
> of
> >power? Detect seems like it is for a sense that returns a boolean
> value
> >("this is gold", or "this is not gold"). Detect with discriminating
> sense
> >and range, maybe? Awfully expensive for a relatively weak power
> (offset
> >by "distinguishing feature: is always talking about turkeys"?).
>
> A Discriminatory Detect is probably the way to go, but I'd probably
> allow a 3-point volume sense perk similar to direction or time sense.
> Or else a KS: Turkey Volume Guessing.
>
> >On a slightly less neurotic note, what about special senses or
> information
> >gathering powers that are invasive. For instance, what about the
> power to
> >detect the exact age of any living creature, accurate to the day?
> Could
> >this be done in enhanced senses, or would you need telepathy?
>
> Detect Age or Telepathy (only to determine age -2) is probably best,
> but as an off-the-wall suggestion, how about Absolute Time Sense,
> Usable Against Others? Or KS: Age Guessing.
>
>
> Dave Mattingly
> http://www.geocities.com/soho/5953
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"Eric Burns\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 18:57:37
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Information Gathering Powers (TVGM)
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On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:39:50 -0400 (EDT), Eric Burns wrote:
>I was watching Mystery Science Theater 3000 the other day and one of the
>skits involved Crow T. Robot declaring himself a superhero, Turkey Volume
>Guessing Man! His power was to accurately guess how many turkeys would
>be needed to fill any given volume (if you don't watch MST3K, you probably
>are shaking your head right now and muttering, "what a dork, who let this
>joker on the champs list...").
>
>Anyway, this got me thinking. Exactly how would you build this sort of
>power?
Lightning Calculator, with appropriate limitations.
qts
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"Jim Dickinson\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Cc: "hero-l@omg.org" <hero-l@omg.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 19:05:46
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Urban Myth: Headcase
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On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:44:07 -0700, Jim Dickinson wrote:
>At 11:19 AM 7/23/97 -0400, E. David Miller wrote:
>>>I am adding one more member to my Urban Myth villian group. I am not sure
>>>what is the most practical way of building his main power.
>>>
>>>Headcase has the ability to transfer minds. Here is how I want it to work.
>>>Flunky A falls asleep at headcase's request. Headcase then replaces his
>>>targets mind with the mind of the flunky so that the flunky can use the
>>>targets powers to committ whatever dastardly deed Headcase wants done. I am
>>>leaning towards an ego transfer with the flunky's ego being transfered into
>>>the target while the target's ego is drained off. The switch of minds would
>>>be the special effect. Can anyone think of a simpler or more effective way
>>>to do this.
>>>
>>>Oh by the way I have finally given the team a name:
>>>The Midnight Hand
>>>
>>>I hope to have a finished write up in the next few weeks. I seem to be
>>>stuck on writing an effective version of The Living House.
>>>
>>>Patrick B.
>>
>>Not to be a pain in the @$$, but why not build the way it sounds: Mind
>>Control, Usable By Others?
>
>I think people have missed the point -- or maybe it's me that has! Let's see:
>
>Headcase takes Person A and Person B. A is the "Flunky", I am guessing by the description that the flunky is working for Headcase, and B is the Hero. Headcase swaps the minds of A and B so that the Flunky can now use the Hero's body to do whatever flunky's do.
>
>Seems like the only real way to do this sort of thing is with a transformation attack. Si? or No?
How about Shift Spirit from the Hero Almanac?
Alternatively, sice you're suggesting that the abilities go along with
the bodies, a Mind Control 'Behave as a Flunky' with the Side Effect
'Flunky behaves as Hero' This way, you get the OAF: Flunky limitation
<g>.
qts
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: move thru vs force wall
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Date: 23 Jul 1997 16:13:15 -0400
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Just one point: MM cannot erect her Force Wall anywhere other than
immediately arround herself -- anything else requires an attack roll.
With that out of the way...
Force Wall works almost exactly like a real wall, the difference being that
it has no Body. If FSG hits it, he treats it just as if he ran into a real
wall, and I would dig into the section in Ninja Hero about barriers.
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--
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\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:40:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Information Gathering Powers (TVGM)
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On Wed, 23 Jul 1997, Geoffrey Speare wrote:
> > His power was to accurately guess how many turkeys would
> > be needed to fill any given volume
>
> I wrote house rules for senses, available
> at http://oasis.ot.com/~myrrh/senses.html. Here's how I would use those rules
> to write this up, and how much it would cost.
>
> I'll assume the sense works in such a way that you have to see an area to
> gauge it's turkey-holding potential: if you're blinded, the sense doesn't
> work.
>
> Clearly, this sense is rated as Cheap, unless you are playing in a very
> /weird/ game where turkey volume filling is vital. Thus, the elements below
> are not going to cost much:
>
> Sense Volume, Range, Discriminatory: 3 points. No Blockage Advantage.
>
> Limitations:
> Discriminatory only gives "turkey measurement": -1/2
> Linked to Sight: -1/2
>
> Final Cost: 1 point. I think that's about right. :-)
>
> Geoff Speare
At one point, this power just REALLY kicks ass. I believe I just
might write up a 250-point "Useless Sense Man" for our "Legion of
Substitute Superheroes" campaign. Heck, at 1 point apeice, I could give
him a 5pt. variable power pool, "only for useless senses" (about a -1,
seeing as each time he wanted to use the pool, he'd only be able to
simulate senses that are useless in the current situation).
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:59:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Information Gathering Powers (TVGM)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997, Eric Burns wrote:
> I was watching Mystery Science Theater 3000 the other day and one of the
> skits involved Crow T. Robot declaring himself a superhero, Turkey Volume
> Guessing Man! His power was to accurately guess how many turkeys would
> be needed to fill any given volume (if you don't watch MST3K, you probably
> are shaking your head right now and muttering, "what a dork, who let this
> joker on the champs list...").
Y'know, I think I saw this one. Did one of them come up with
"Professor Hitler and His Invisible Knee Machine"? Me and my friends have
spent many hours contemplating and debating this concept. Is it a
invisible machine that creates knees? A machine that creates invisible
knees? A machine and makes knees invisible? We finally decided on the
following concept:
Professor Hitler's work is based on the "space folding"
concept, wherein the "fabric" of space is "folded", bringing two points
closer together. Rather than seeing space as a piece of cloth that can be
folded, Professor Hitler saw space as a "prosthetic leg" that can be
"bent." However, as anyone knows, space has no knees! So, the Prof. set
out to give it some. However, he found the sight of giant metaphysical
knees mildly disturbed some people, so after some tinkering, he discovered
a way to hide them from mundane senses.
See how bored I am?
> Oh, and I promise you that as soon as I have the time to type it up, I
> will post the transcript to the MST3k TVGM skit. I think you folks would
> appreciate the humor (at least, I _hope_ so...).
Please do, so that I may reassure myself of my sanity... myself.
> -Eric
> aka Turkey Volume Guessing Man
>
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 11:04:51 GMT
X-Sender: smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk
From: smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk (Steve McGinness)
Subject: Re: Urban Myth: Headcase
Cc: hero-l@org.omg
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At 09:44 AM 23/7/97 -0700, Jim Dickinson wrote:
>I think people have missed the point -- or maybe it's me that has! Let's see:
Always nice to see a mail which allows for misunderstandings!
>Headcase takes Person A and Person B. A is the "Flunky", I am guessing by
the >description that the flunky is working for Headcase, and B is the Hero.
Headcase >swaps the minds of A and B so that the Flunky can now use the
Hero's body to do >whatever flunky's do.
I think we are working on the same basis. Flunky has no powers of his own.
Headcase wants Flunky to use the hero's body to commit crime.
Same thing we're talking about??
>Seems like the only real way to do this sort of thing is with a
transformation attack. >Si? or No?
Not really. That's what David and I were saying. You could use Mind Control
usable by others.
To go into a long explanation (gulp!) if you wanted Headcase to be able to
make the hero do something against his will then you would use Mind Control.
That's the effect you want, a limitation might be that whilst you controlled
the hero's body then he controlled yours!! (Now I've got _myself_
thinking!!) Instead Headcase wants Flunky to control the actions of the hero
therefore he has Mind Control usable by Flunky and the hero will do whatever
he is told to by Flunky. Again the side effect might be that Flunky is now
controlled by the hero (it _is_ a disadvantage).
Is this a clearer explanantion of what we mean??
Mind Control seems the obvious way to go.
>Jim
Stephen
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:55:31 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: TVGM
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Ahhhhh Crow...... poor misguided Crow. Done up like a mime and hanging
around with a raven.
Ooops wrong Crow.
Anyway, I'd think that the Spatial Awareness power would pretty much
cover this..... assuming the character could do the math. Working off
the given that a turkey takes up so much volume and that a given area
has so much space..... it just comes down to simple mathmatics. The next
question is.... Live Turkeys or frozen turkeys? ;)
On a somewhat related note....... quite a while back someone mentioned
the ability to accurately guage thingls like Ht., Wt., Velocity and
such. Like Lt.Data, I think some said. At the time I suggested said
power be called Exact Measure.
I sat down and tried to tinker this one out...... the best I could do
was a 5pt Enhanced Senses with the built in limitations of Full Phase to
use and an INT based skill roll.
Anybody have a better idea?
Jerry
aka Puzzleboy---Foxbat's Best Friend
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:05:47 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: Density Increase
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Debate topic of the week for my group........
Does Density Increase also make a Character "harder" or just heavier and
stronger?
I know it also adds PD and ED but does the extra mass in the same volume
become tangibly harder?
Like a brick wall as opposed to normal human flesh?
In other words if you poke Obsidian with your finger does his flesh
distent any?
I guees we could lump Armor, Damage Resistance and Damage Reduction in
this too.
Jerry
aka Puzzleboy---Foxbat's Best Friend
From: why@saturn.superlink.net (Joe Mucchiello)
Subject: Re: Urban Myth: Headcase
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:37:01 -0400 (EDT)
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smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk said:
>[Why you should not use Transform for possession stuff deleted]
> To go into a long explanation (gulp!) if you wanted Headcase to be able to
> make the hero do something against his will then you would use Mind Control.
> That's the effect you want, a limitation might be that whilst you controlled
> the hero's body then he controlled yours!! (Now I've got _myself_
> thinking!!)
If you do this, don't forget Uncontrolled, otherwise the Hero could just
turn the Mind Control off, since he is in the body which initiated it.
> Instead Headcase wants Flunky to control the actions of the hero
> therefore he has Mind Control usable by Flunky and the hero will do whatever
> he is told to by Flunky. Again the side effect might be that Flunky is now
> controlled by the hero (it _is_ a disadvantage).
The problem with Mind Control though is that most possession senarios
include the possibility that the Flunky is killed (or even the Hero's
body is killed). This ends a mind control. With a Transform, you
continue to live in body you possess.
Joe
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:04:25 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: Density Increase
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At 09:05 AM 7/24/97 -0500, Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>Does Density Increase also make a Character "harder" or just heavier and
>stronger?
The Champions Power itself just makes you heavier. Beyond that, it depends
on special effects (if I'm trying to represent Nuklon of Infinity, Inc., yes
it does; if I'm trying to simulate a sumo wrestler with a couple levels of
DI, no, it doesn't).
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Turkey Volume Guessing Man!!!
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:51:14 -0400 (EDT)
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As per my promise (threat?), here is the transcript to the
TVGM skit. Enjoy! :-)
-Eric
aka Turkey Volume Guessing Man (tm)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
MST3k, The Turkey Sketch
Cast:
Mike Nelson: A goofy looking guy in a jumpsuit.
Tom Servo: A red robot that looks like a bubblegum machine with a
beak.
Crow T. Robot: A yellow robot whose head looks like a bowling pin
attached to a lacross mit.
We Begin:
>> Mike and Tom are hanging out, and Crow leaps onstage wearing a
>> super-hero costume.
Crow: Da-da-duh!!! It is I, Turkey Volume Guessing Man!!! Ah, let
me explain. All this talk of turkeys in today's movie led me to
realize the true nature of my super-power, and hence am I now
revealed as: Turkey Volume Guessing Man!!!
Mike: So you can guess the volume of any turkey?
Crow: No!!!
Tom Servo: You're able to deliver a whole lot of guesses about
turkeys, thereby achieving certain economy-
Crow: No!!!
Mike: Uh, you help turkeys out by guessing the volume of their pens?
Crow: No!!!
Tom Servo: Ah! You guess how high the volume of a stereo would have
to be before it annoyed the average turkey.
Crow: No!!!
Mike: Would you just tell us what you do please!
Crow: Alright! Would you agree that for any given space, it would
require a certain amount of turkeys to fill it up? In other words,
that the volume of any space might be expressed in terms of turkeys?
Mike: ...yes.
Crow: Well, behold! That is my power! I can guess the number of
turkeys it would take to fill up any given space! For I am Turkey
Volume Guessing Man!!!
Tom Servo: And this is useful because...
Crow: Sadly, it is not useful at all. And so my powers isolate me,
and I am a puzzle to the ordinary run of man; although women are
drawn to me for my powers are fascinating. And yet there is no woman
that can hold me, for always am I confronted with spaces of various
sizes, and I _must_ guess the number of turkeys it would take to fill
them! For I am Turkey Volume Guessing Man!!!
Mike: And, uh, nobody else can do this?
Crow: Well, try it.
Mike: Well, okay, I mean like, okay. This, this space here, I mean
from window to window, the door...
Crow: Uh-huh.
Mike: Okay, uh, 11,550 turkeys.
<silence>
Crow: ...that's right.
Tom Servo: Mike?
Crow: You, you would do this Mike! You know, I tell you that I'm
Turkey Volume Guessing Man, and you just sonter up and guess how many
turkeys it takes to fill this space!
Tom Servo: Oh boy.
Crow: Well BITE ME, okay Mike?!!
Mike: It was just a lucky guess, Crow!
Crow: Something special about Crow? Well, here's Mike to spit up all
over it! Just think of it, Mike! I can't even switch to chicken
volume guessing, 'cause it just doesn't work! I-I hate you, Mike!
Mike: Come on!
Crow: I hate you! I don't want to talk to you again!
Mike: Come on, Crow, I didn't mean- hey, hey come on, let's get some
lunch, huh? Come on.
Crow (weeping): I guess...
Mike: Hey, uh, I got some turkey.
Crow: Oh, great I- heey!
Everyone: <laughter>
Crow: Well, thanks for breaking me out of my funk, Mike.
Mike: Yeah, sure.
Crow: I've learned a valueble lesson that I shouldn't take turkey
volume guessing too seriously.
Mike: No sir. We'll be right back-
Crow: -In fact, just because you can guess turkey volume, doesn't
mean I can't go ahead and guess turkey volume, too.
Tom Servo: Sure it doesn't. We'll be right-
Crow: -In fact, we can be partners! We are Turkey Volume Guessing
Men! Off! Shhhhh... <"flies" offstage>
Mike: We'll be right back. Sad little man...
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:39:35 -0700
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
Subject: Re: TVGM
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
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To: champ-l@omg.org
-> From jnealis@OnRamp.NET Thu Jul 24 07:20:01 1997
->
-> I sat down and tried to tinker this one out...... the best I could do
-> was a 5pt Enhanced Senses with the built in limitations of Full Phase to
-> use and an INT based skill roll.
->
-> Anybody have a better idea?
->
I don't know about better, but I have a different idea:
Make 'Accurate Measure' a 3pt Talent, just like:
Absolute Time Sense
Lightning Calculator
Perfect Pitch
I think 'Accurate Measure' would fit in nicely with these.
-Sam
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:46:36 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Urban Myth: Headcase
Cc: hero-l@org.omg
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
At 11:04 AM 7/24/97 GMT, Steve McGinness wrote:
>To go into a long explanation (gulp!) if you wanted Headcase to be able to
>make the hero do something against his will then you would use Mind Control.
>That's the effect you want, a limitation might be that whilst you controlled
>the hero's body then he controlled yours!! (Now I've got _myself_
>thinking!!) Instead Headcase wants Flunky to control the actions of the hero
>therefore he has Mind Control usable by Flunky and the hero will do whatever
>he is told to by Flunky. Again the side effect might be that Flunky is now
>controlled by the hero (it _is_ a disadvantage).
>
>Is this a clearer explanantion of what we mean??
>
>Mind Control seems the obvious way to go.
>
It seems to me this is EXACTLY what the Spirit rules, especialy Shift
Spirit, in Almanac I and Horror Hero, were written to handle. Headcase has
a damn powerful Shift Spirit, at range, usable against others, yada yada
yada. Mega points.
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: Urban Myth: Headcase
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:28:40 -0400 (EDT)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> >Mind Control seems the obvious way to go.
> >
> It seems to me this is EXACTLY what the Spirit rules, especialy Shift
> Spirit, in Almanac I and Horror Hero, were written to handle. Headcase has
> a damn powerful Shift Spirit, at range, usable against others, yada yada
> yada. Mega points.
>
Would any of you kind, benevolant people who own the Hero Almanac be
willing to post a brief synopsis of shift spirit for those of us who are
too cheap to buy it? (It never hurts to ask)
-Eric
aka Turkey Volume Guessing Man
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 14:03:22 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: TVGM
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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At 10:39 AM 7/24/97 -0700, Sam Bell wrote:
>
>
>I don't know about better, but I have a different idea:
>
>Make 'Accurate Measure' a 3pt Talent, just like:
>
> Absolute Time Sense
> Lightning Calculator
> Perfect Pitch
>
>I think 'Accurate Measure' would fit in nicely with these.
>
Heck, just buy Lightning Calculator with the limit:Only to calculate number
of turkeys needed to fill a given volume (-2)
This would make it cost 1 point.
("How many ways can TVGM's power be built in the Hero system? What's the
cheapest? What's the most expensive? Find out in Hero System Almanac III!")
Addendum to above:I'd permit someone to buy 'Variable Special Effect' on
the above, and switch to any form of domestic fowl, from Rock cornish Game
Hens to Ostritches.
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:06:24 +0000
Subject: Re: Urban Myth: Headcase
Reply-to: filkhero@usa.net
Priority: normal
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> Shift Spirit:
>
> 20 points for 1d6, affects spirits, no range, recover 5/Turn
>
> Major Transformation (target spirit to target spirit on different
> plane), +1 Based on ECV, No Range -1/2, Affects Desol +1/2, Requires
> Grab and EGO roll (-1/2), Cumulative +1/2, based on EGO rather than
> BODY -0, lost EGO recovers 5 per Turn -1/2 (can be bought up for
> +1/4 per time shift)
>
> Major Transformation -- 15
> Based on ECV, Affects Desol, 1/2 END, Cumulative -- 49
> No Range, Requires Grab & Ego Roll, rec. 5/Turn -- 20
>
> Transformation can be healed by: Another Shift Spirit; finding your
> physical body and willing the shift (Astral Projection, p. 13); any
> other power or special effect which would reasonably restore a
> spirit to a physical container. (Note that the GM may wish to rule
> that some methods of removing the Transformation leave the spirit in
> a container other than his own.)
>
> [Write description of what exactly being a spirit entails.
> Preferably a bulleted list oriented toward game effects. Note on
> using Transform against yourself.]
>
Also note that the Almanac says that you have to use Spirit Shift
twice to switch bodies- once to get to the spirit plane, and once to
get to a body. For a dual switch, this would involve four uses, one
to empty the target body, one to empty the flunky's body, and one
each to refill the bodies.
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:13:02 -0400
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
CC: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Urban Myth: Headcase
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> From: Eric Burns <burns@usmcug.usm.maine.edu>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:28:40 -0400 (EDT)
> Content-Type: text
> Sender: owner-champ-l
> X-Hero: champ-l
> Content-Length: 526
>
> > >Mind Control seems the obvious way to go.
> > >
> > It seems to me this is EXACTLY what the Spirit rules, especialy Shift
> > Spirit, in Almanac I and Horror Hero, were written to handle. Headcase has
> > a damn powerful Shift Spirit, at range, usable against others, yada yada
> > yada. Mega points.
> >
>
> Would any of you kind, benevolant people who own the Hero Almanac be
> willing to post a brief synopsis of shift spirit for those of us who are
> too cheap to buy it? (It never hurts to ask)
Here are my notes on translating the Spirit rules to standard HSR
powers...make of them what you will. :-)
Geoff Speare
Shift Spirit:
20 points for 1d6, affects spirits, no range, recover 5/Turn
Major Transformation (target spirit to target spirit on different
plane), +1 Based on ECV, No Range -1/2, Affects Desol +1/2, Requires Grab
and EGO roll (-1/2), Cumulative +1/2, based on EGO rather than BODY
-0, lost EGO recovers 5 per Turn -1/2 (can be bought up for +1/4 per
time shift)
Major Transformation -- 15
Based on ECV, Affects Desol, 1/2 END, Cumulative -- 49
No Range, Requires Grab & Ego Roll, rec. 5/Turn -- 20
Transformation can be healed by: Another Shift Spirit; finding your
physical body and willing the shift (Astral Projection, p. 13); any
other power or special effect which would reasonably restore a spirit
to a physical container. (Note that the GM may wish to rule that some
methods of removing the Transformation leave the spirit in a container
other than his own.)
[Write description of what exactly being a spirit entails. Preferably
a bulleted list oriented toward game effects. Note on using Transform
against yourself.]
==========
Astral Projection:
Transform only on self, -1
Alternatively, the GM could allow this limitation to be applied to
Desolidification to produce a similar effect. (Moving into the Spirit
world with Desol might be a little different; the player could return
to his body at any time by ceasing to pay END, and the character's
spirit does have BODY, STR, etc.)
==========
Consume Spirit:
30 points for 1d6, affects spirits, no range, recover 5/Turn
RKA, +1 Based on ECV, +1 1/2 AVLD Power Defense, No Range -1/2,
Affects Desol +1/2, Requires Grab & EGO roll -1/2, based on Ego rather
than BODY (-0), no wounding or bleeding (-1/2), lost EGO recovers 5 per Turn
-1/2 (can be bought up for +1/4 per time shift), does no STUN -1/2
(Since this power is essentially paying for "Affects weird defenses"
twice with the Based on ECV and AVLD Advantage, it seems reasonable to
allow it to do BODY. It is definitely a power that requires GM
permission to use.)
RKA -- 15
based on ECV, AVLD, Affects Desol, 1/2 END -- 64
No Range, Requires Grab & Ego Roll, lost EGO recovers, no STUN,
no wounding or bleeding -- 26
Aid, based on ECV +1, Affects Desol +1/2, Requires Grab and EGO
roll -1/2, linked to RKA -1/2
Aid -- 5
based on ECV, Affects Desol, 0 END -- 15
Requires Grab & Ego Roll, No Range, linked -- 6
If you want to toss away the points gained, just don't buy the Aid.
==========
Spirit Summoning:
Same as in the book, save that Affects Desolid should be substituted
for Affects Spirits.
==========
Astral Vision:
Sense Spirit, Ranged, Discriminatory, only free floating spirits
(-1/2)
Detect Spirit, Sense, Range, Discriminatory -- 15
only free floating spirits -- 10
Note that this power is restricted by physical barriers; you can't
sense a spirit through a wall, for example.
==========
Aura Vision:
Same as in the book.
==========
Clairsentience:
The "see into related group of dimensions" option for Clairsentience
(HSR, p. 60) is used here. It is up to the GM exactly how broad the
related group is (does it cover the depths of hell, etc.).
==========
Detect Spirit:
Same as in the book.
==========
Normal Senses:
Same as in the book. The cost of Normal Senses is not defined anywhere
else. The GM may wish to charge less for Taste, Touch, and Smell,
since they generally less useful than Sight and Hearing.
==========
Sensitive:
Same as in the book.
==========
Spirit Combat:
In Horror Hero, based on ECV Against Spirits is a +1/2 Advantage.
The book does not make it clear, however, whether a power bought with
this advantage works only against spirits or against all targets.
(Point-wise, it seems odd for an Advantage to limit a character's
choice of targets; on the other hand, if the power works against all
targets there is no reason for the Advantage to be worth less than its
usual +1 value).
Rather than create a new advantage, GMs may wish to require the full
+1 Based on ECV Advantage, then apply a Limitation "Only against
Spirits," the value of which would vary depending on the number of
spirits in a campaign.
==========
Mental Powers and Spirits:
[There's a lot of rule-oriented stuff in here that isn't pointed out
clearly, such as "non-dominant spirits require an extra level on
Mental Power charts to be affected". Summarize.]
==========
Blocking Spirits:
Requiring an extra Advantage for Power Defense is unnecessary under
standard HSR rules. (GM's who don't wish standard Power Defense to
work against spirit powers should require characters to take a
Limitation on their Power Defense.) Similarly, Power Defense will by
default work against spirit powers going both into and out of the
character's body, unless a Limitation is applied.
[Maybe this is wrong; consider whether or not Affects Desolid is
needed to stop spirit attacks, since they are technically going from
spirit plane to spirit plane.?]
==========
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:15:33 -0500
From: Joel Vallejo <jvallejo@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jvallejo@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Density Increase
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
Jerry & Jamie Nealis wrote:
>
> Debate topic of the week for my group........
>
> Does Density Increase also make a Character "harder" or just heavier and
> stronger?
>
> I know it also adds PD and ED but does the extra mass in the same volume
> become tangibly harder?
>
> Like a brick wall as opposed to normal human flesh?
>
> In other words if you poke Obsidian with your finger does his flesh
> distent any?
>
> I guees we could lump Armor, Damage Resistance and Damage Reduction in
> this too.
>
Doesn't this really depend on the SFX of the character? Big Metal Guy
could have Armor, extra STR, etc, and Density Increase. He defines his
Density Increase as adding layers of metal to his body, and there you
go.
Joel Vallejo
The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/8456/
From: DocTough@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Density Increase
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Doc sez...
The classical veiw of Density Increase would be that it does start to
make the sin harder. However, in the play of the game it really a mader of
the player's special effect. A character's skin could become tougher without
the need to say that past 8 PD it is inflexible.
A favored character of mine, Doc Tough, had 30 rPD/30 rED via
combination of Growth, DI, extra PD/ED, and Damage Resistance. I always
considered his skin to significantly harder than normal, but not at all
inflexible. Most bullets just sort of squashed against his body and wouldn't
ricochet for ala Superman.
Doc Tough
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:44:13 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: 4 color principles
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I've been thinking recently about some of the implied assumptions or
basic principles of typical superhero settings.
I'm sure I've missed some, but here's what I have so far.
1** alien races exist and are interested in earth
2** super-humans typically assume a costumed identity in which to use
their powers
3** super-powers can be caused by many different sources
4** the presence of super-humans has had no real effect on society or history
(this is the old "why doesn't everybody have blasters ?" comment, or that
the outcomes of wars and the like weren't changed by the presence of supers)
So what ? The point being, that if you change some of these assumptions,
then you can get less generic settings. If you change 4, then you get a
'Watchmen' or 'IST supers' setting. If you change 3, then you can get a
Wildcards setting.
Does anybody have any more principles and suggestions for how varying them
can create different settings ? Thoughts and comments welcome. Curt Hicks
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:09:25 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Urban Myth: Headcase
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At 04:28 PM 7/24/97 -0400, Eric Burns wrote:
>> >Mind Control seems the obvious way to go.
>> >
>> It seems to me this is EXACTLY what the Spirit rules, especialy Shift
>> Spirit, in Almanac I and Horror Hero, were written to handle. Headcase has
>> a damn powerful Shift Spirit, at range, usable against others, yada yada
>> yada. Mega points.
>>
>
>Would any of you kind, benevolant people who own the Hero Almanac be
>willing to post a brief synopsis of shift spirit for those of us who are
>too cheap to buy it? (It never hurts to ask)
>
My Almanac just went into the packing crates for The Move. IIRC, though, it
was something like this...
Shift Spirit, 1d6/15 points. Do double EGO to target to shift spirit (The
'personality', essentially) to a container (such as a body with no Spirit
in it).
So headcase must:
Shift Spirit from Target 'A' to Spirit Plane.
Shift Spirit from Target 'B' to now-empty Target 'A'
Shift Spirit of Target 'A' from Spirit Plane to the now-empty body of
Target 'B'.
There's some other powers that would be useful, but that's the gist of it.
(To *Destroy* a spirit is 30/1d6, making it the most expensive power in Hero)
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:55:14 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
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At 05:44 PM 7/24/97 -0500, Curt Hicks wrote:
>I've been thinking recently about some of the implied assumptions or
>basic principles of typical superhero settings.
>I'm sure I've missed some, but here's what I have so far.
<deletia>
>Does anybody have any more principles and suggestions for how varying them
>can create different settings ? Thoughts and comments welcome. Curt Hicks
>
Magic works;gods, demons, and angels are real, and nearly all myths and
legends are based on fact.
The Earth is home to many races, usually hidden until discovered by
superheroes;the knowledge that there are other 'native' races on Earth does
almost nothing to day-to-day life. (Altanteans, the gorillas in the DC
Universe, the Eternals, etc)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:25:11 -0500
From: Jerry & Jamie Nealis <jnealis@OnRamp.NET>
Reply-To: jnealis@OnRamp.NET
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
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Curt Hicks wrote:
>
> I've been thinking recently about some of the implied assumptions or
> basic principles of typical superhero settings.
> I'm sure I've missed some, but here's what I have so far.
>
> 1** alien races exist and are interested in earth
>
> 2** super-humans typically assume a costumed identity in which to use
> their powers
>
> 3** super-powers can be caused by many different sources
>
> 4** the presence of super-humans has had no real effect on society or history
> (this is the old "why doesn't everybody have blasters ?" comment, or that
> the outcomes of wars and the like weren't changed by the presence of supers)
>
> So what ? The point being, that if you change some of these assumptions,
> then you can get less generic settings. If you change 4, then you get a
> 'Watchmen' or 'IST supers' setting. If you change 3, then you can get a
> Wildcards setting.
>
> Does anybody have any more principles and suggestions for how varying them
> can create different settings ? Thoughts and comments welcome. Curt Hicks
The Average citizen is only mildly impressed by the presence of a
Superhero
changing this would mean that Superheroes would be the most popular ppl
around....... Pesence would actually be a useful stat
A Villain's henchmen are never paid enuff and will desert at the first
sign of trouble
2 words...... epic battles
DNPCs are completely clueless
much more strain on that Secret ID
X-Sender: why@mars.superlink.net
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:28:27 -0400
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net>
Subject: New spin on Variable Advantage and Multipower
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Up front, I just want to say that I don't like Multipower. Sometimes it is
the only way to go with some things, but in general, I find it cheesy.
I was looking at Variable Advantage and I could not understand why it costs
+1 in addition to the advantage granted. Seems to me that it's value is
overestimated.
60 Multipower (blasts of fire)
6u EB 12d6 6 END
6u EB 8d6 Explosion 6 END
6u EB 6d6 AoE Line 6 END
6u EB 8d6 Penetrating 6 END
6u EB 6 1/2d6 Double KB 6 END
---
90
The equivolent VarAd version would be 6d6 EB +1 in Variable advantage(+2).
Granted, it could do more than the above Multipower, but you always have to
have +1 in advantages. Each full shot also always uses 9 END. The
Explosive or Penetrating versions would need to find another +1/2 you want
to add to it.
A Multipower with 5 ultra slots is the same as a +1/2 advantage on the base
power. And yet you do not have to pay extra END for that advantage. VPP
is almost the the same, except that it takes a 1/2 phase action to change
instead of a 0 phase action. But the VPP version also does not cost
additional END.
So here's a new advantage I suggest:
VARIABLE ACTIVE COST (looking glass)
Like a Variable Power Pool, a power with Variable Active Cost can trade
active points for power advantages. Thus, if an EB with 60 active points
is purchased with Variable Active Cost, it can have no advantages and cause
12d6 damage (60 pts), or it can have a +1/2 advantage, such as Penetrating
or Explosion and do 8d6 damage (40 pts w/ +1/2 = 60 pts). When the power
is chosen, all such variations are described. The number of variations
determines the advantage:
Variations Advantage
3 +1/4
6 +1/2
any number +1
--------------
This is still not quite as good a MP (especially since a MP can hold more
than one power type), but I think it simulates the
gun-with-various-kinds-of-bullets type of MP that is so common.
Comments?
Joe
X-Sender: why@mars.superlink.net
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:48:14 -0400
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net>
Subject: Re: Urban Myth Group
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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Sorry this is so old, but I was very behind in this group. (I've given up
on the De-petrification is or is not Summon/Transform)
At 12:48 PM 7/8/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Patrick Barden wrote:
>
>> House: a living house. Can manipulate its interior walls, floors,
>> furniture etc. Has the ability to "disappear" by shifting itself into
>> another dimension. This is the character I need some help on.
>> 2) How would you handle this effect: Anytime a person inside tries to
>> exit through a door or window they are automatically transported back
>> through another door or window elsewhere in the house preventing them from
>> leaving.
This is simple. Buy an Entangle, 12d6 (too high?), Blocks all senses
(include Mental Sense), Sticky, AoE (the house) and declare that the
special effect teleports the person back into the house. In fact, state
that the person's entire experience inside the "Haunted house" is just a
special effect of the Entangle.
"Everyone who goes into that house, never leaves."
>> 3) Has the ability to produce virtually anything it feels the people
>> inside it needs (ie. food, clothing, other small items.) it can also make
>> these items disappear at will.
Sounds like lots of Mental Illusion (link it to entangle if you want) and
requires the Does Not Interact With Real World level of MI. (Well, you
didn't say that the things created had to actually exist.)
"Wouldn't it be great if there was a salami sandwich in the fridge?"
>> 5) Are their any other effects that you think would be effective. The
>> feeling I am going for is like being caught is some sort of nightmare house
>> that is constantly changing and attempting to prevent the people inside
from
>> leaving. I am not really concerned with the point totals so have fun.
I think the Mental Illusion version is best. The characters are stuck in
an Entangle and cannot see one another. The Mentalist will not be affected
by the house for long but will not be able to escape the Entangle. The
Brick will be crashing through walls, defeating bad guys and returning back
to his normal life in no time. Of course, the mentalist will not be able
to help the brick escape the Mental Illusion, but you can give him hints
that something is not right inside of the Illusion. Giving him a chance to
escape the illusion before everyone starves to death.
"What is this goo? Hardhead! Help!"
"Now where's the mayo?"
Of course, this is expensive. But, you're the GM and you can always use
the Base rules. (Don't forget to give is a good SPEED, otherwise it won't
be able to react fast enough to keep the Mental Illusion stable.)
Joe
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:36:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: vanadium@ix.netcom.com (Carl Gilchrist)
Subject: Re: TVGM
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You wrote:
>
>
>-> From jnealis@OnRamp.NET Thu Jul 24 07:20:01 1997
>->
>-> I sat down and tried to tinker this one out...... the best I could do
>-> was a 5pt Enhanced Senses with the built in limitations of Full Phase to
>-> use and an INT based skill roll.
>->
>-> Anybody have a better idea?
>->
How about _failing_ and INT roll...
Later...
--
Vanadium@ix.netcom.com | "Life is no longer about 'just surviving',
| that's why we have refrigerators."
| -O. Stephens
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 00:24:51 -0500
From: Joel Vallejo <jvallejo@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jvallejo@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
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Curt Hicks wrote:
>
> I've been thinking recently about some of the implied assumptions or
> basic principles of typical superhero settings.
> I'm sure I've missed some, but here's what I have so far.
>
> 1** alien races exist and are interested in earth
>
> 2** super-humans typically assume a costumed identity in which to use
> their powers
>
> 3** super-powers can be caused by many different sources
>
> 4** the presence of super-humans has had no real effect on society or history
> (this is the old "why doesn't everybody have blasters ?" comment, or that
> the outcomes of wars and the like weren't changed by the presence of supers)
>
> So what ? The point being, that if you change some of these assumptions,
> then you can get less generic settings. If you change 4, then you get a
> 'Watchmen' or 'IST supers' setting. If you change 3, then you can get a
> Wildcards setting.
>
> Does anybody have any more principles and suggestions for how varying them
> can create different settings ? Thoughts and comments welcome. Curt Hicks
Your principles are pretty right on, but I think I have a few additions,
changes for you.
More of an assumption than a principle:
The government is aware of super-humans and have created agencies to
handle, research, investigate, use, or hunt super-humans.
If you take away this assumption, you have governments and/or government
agencies scrambling to control/dissect/destroy your super-humans. In
essence, you get an X-Men: Zero Tolerance situation, where the
super-humans are running for cover.
Definitely a principle:
Superheroes do not deter crime. Criminals will still try to rob banks
or commit crimes where superheroes live despite the chance that they may
be beaten, webbed, charred, etc.
Humans can achieve superhuman status through training and the martial
arts. Everyone knows Batman will kick Superman's butt, because the
Batman will find a way!
By varying/removing these principles, you get bored superhumans. Either
they try to lead normal lives, or they use their powers to achieve
god-like status. For example, the later issues of Miracleman show what
can happen in this situation.
Joel Vallejo
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/8456/
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:37:23 +0000
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
Reply-to: filkhero@usa.net
Priority: normal
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> I've been thinking recently about some of the implied assumptions or
> basic principles of typical superhero settings. I'm sure I've missed
> some, but here's what I have so far.
<snip>
> Does anybody have any more principles and suggestions for how
> varying them can create different settings ? Thoughts and comments
> welcome. Curt Hicks
"Crime is easy to find, anyone in a funny suit will find violent
crime everywhere."
If you think it is easy to find crime, try this sometime. On second
thought, leave out the funny suit. It may make it too easy to find
violent crime.<VBG>
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:37:24 +0000
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
Reply-to: filkhero@usa.net
Priority: normal
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> In a message dated 97-07-24 19:23:00 EDT, exucurt@exu.ericsson.se
> writes:
>
> > I've been thinking recently about some of the implied assumptions or
> > basic principles of typical superhero settings.
> > I'm sure I've missed some, but here's what I have so far.
> >
> [snip]
> >
> > Does anybody have any more principles and suggestions for how varying them
>
> > can create different settings ? Thoughts and comments welcome. Curt
> Hicks
>
> I wrote up a bunch of these some time back as part of a critique of
> GURPS Supers:
>
<snip>
> * Very strong characters can pick up large objects without them breaking
> under their own weight - even if they would realistically do so.
Don't forget: The laws of balance don't apply to supers. Thus, a
super can lift a small car by its front end, even though in real life
he would have to weigh many times as much as the car, or he would
never get it off the ground, no matter what his strenght, unless he
were under its center of gravity.
> * Masks are extremely effective at hiding identities.
I forgot about this one. One of my favorite bits of sillyness. It is
even worse when you realize that, unlike the early supers, modern
supers don't even hide their hair. (I had one character in one of my
campaigns with red hair, and a different shade of red hair coming out
the back of her headpiece. If you tried to pull her hair, the wig
would come off, revealing wisps of blonde hair.<g>)
OTOH, Christopher Reeves convinced me that a pair of glasses could
hide Superman.<G> (Well, almost.)
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
From: ErolB1@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:47:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
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In a message dated 97-07-24 19:23:00 EDT, exucurt@exu.ericsson.se writes:
> I've been thinking recently about some of the implied assumptions or
> basic principles of typical superhero settings.
> I'm sure I've missed some, but here's what I have so far.
>
[snip]
>
> Does anybody have any more principles and suggestions for how varying them
> can create different settings ? Thoughts and comments welcome. Curt
Hicks
I wrote up a bunch of these some time back as part of a critique of GURPS
Supers:
* People are hard to kill or seriously injure with superpowers. Powers can
cause great property damage and throw people around like rag dolls, but even
normals will survive being thrown around like rag dolls by superpowers.
Fights with superpowers usually result in lots of property damage and the
losers getting rendered unconscious without anyone being seriously hurt in
the process.
* People with superpowers are hard to hurt or kill by any means.
* The more damage an attack will do to a super, the less likely it is to
connect. It is essentially impossible to tag a super with an attack that can
kill him with a single hit. This is how super-types with little or no armor
avoid getting hurt. In a streetfight, it is almost impossible to hit the
Masked Maurader with a gun, very difficult to hit him with a knife, and not
so difficult to hit him with a fist. (Unless you're a supergoon whose fist
does more damage than a gun. In that case, hitting him with your fist is
even harder than hitting him with a gun.)
* It is very difficult for a super to injure himself with his own powers.
* Very strong characters can pick up large objects without them breaking
under their own weight - even if they would realistically do so.
* Masks are extremely effective at hiding identities.
* The flimsiest of excuses are also effective at hiding identities (but the
super trying to hide his secret must come up with *some* excuse).
* Typical costumes can survive the use of superpowers just as well as normal
clothing survives normal human activities. They will sometimes come out worse
for wear, but rarely will be utterly destroyed.
* Thugs and gangsters can easily equip themselves so as to outgun the police
(and no, this is not realistic). Not that all their "sexy" full-auto guns and
sci-fi superweapons do them much good against superheroes.
* Guns are about as good for civilian self-defense as Handgun Control
Incorporated (HCI) claims - i.e. not very. (If ordinary civilians could
defend themselves against criminals, what need would there be for
superheroes?)
* Non-super hunters are cruel and cowardly yahoos who would do better to stay
home and beat their wives.
* Most superheroes are "no killing" pacifists. Exceptions tend to have weaker
and less exotic powers.
* Villians are strangely reluctant to kill other supers. Even villians who
are casual killers of normals or who put great effort into murder plots
against their opponents avoid out-and-out killing of superheroes. Instead,
they capture them and/or throw them into deathtraps.
* Superpowers work effectively only for those few who are *fated* to be
supers. They they can only be reproduced by and/or for those so fated and (to
a lesser extent) their chosen followers. But those who are so fated can
acquire them fairly easily. This means that a few special individuals can
build grav sleds out of chicken wire and old radios while most people must
continue to use ordinary cars.
* The existance of superpowers will not cause major social, political or
historical changes - at least not in the US or in areas Americans are
familiar with. Superpowers can cause great social, political, and historical
changes in places that most Americans haven't heard of. Life in the
USA-with-supers will generally be just like life in the "real" USA.
************************
Vox Ludator has been kind enough to put the above on his web site, along with
some of my other scribblings. (http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html)
Erol K. Bayburt
Evil Genius for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:09:41 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: New spin on Variable Advantage and Multipower
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Joe Mucchiello wrote:
>
> Up front, I just want to say that I don't like Multipower. Sometimes it is
> the only way to go with some things, but in general, I find it cheesy.
Cheesy? Why? It is a servicable way to express a whole host of character
options, and the costs are (usually) not too out of line. Whatever its
shortcomings, *I* prefer to avoid inventing new powers and/or advantages
until all other options have been exhausted twice over.
>
> I was looking at Variable Advantage and I could not understand why it costs
> +1 in addition to the advantage granted. Seems to me that it's value is
> overestimated.
Agreed. Why not take the obvious step of making it the dual of Variable
Limitation: 2x the actual advantage. Thus:
Variable Advantage: choose +1/4 from AP, Penetrating.
would add to active points as a +1/2 advantage. This does not change the
pointing of your Variable Advantage example, since it is +1, but I think
that the cost is correct in this case.
>
> The equivolent VarAd version would be 6d6 EB +1 in Variable advantage(+2).
> Granted, it could do more than the above Multipower, but you always have to
> have +1 in advantages. Each full shot also always uses 9 END.
Well, you could allow 1/2 END as an option. :-)
>
> So here's a new advantage I suggest:
>
> VARIABLE ACTIVE COST (looking glass)
> Like a Variable Power Pool, a power with Variable Active Cost can trade
> active points for power advantages. Thus, if an EB with 60 active * * *
> is chosen, all such variations are described. The number of variations
> determines the advantage:
> Variations Advantage
> 3 +1/4
> 6 +1/2
> any number +1
Good heavens! Why not just limit Multipowers in your campaign to
different aspects of a single power, or to simulating real-world devices
(however you would interpret that for your campaign)?! Tons simpler, and
you aren't inventing new rules.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: 4 color principles
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:31:56 -0400 (EDT)
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To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
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> I've been thinking recently about some of the implied assumptions or
> basic principles of typical superhero settings.
> I'm sure I've missed some, but here's what I have so far.
>
> 1** alien races exist and are interested in earth
>
> 2** super-humans typically assume a costumed identity in which to use
> their powers
>
> 3** super-powers can be caused by many different sources
>
> 4** the presence of super-humans has had no real effect on society or history
> (this is the old "why doesn't everybody have blasters ?" comment, or that
> the outcomes of wars and the like weren't changed by the presence of supers)
>
> So what ? The point being, that if you change some of these assumptions,
> then you can get less generic settings. If you change 4, then you get a
> 'Watchmen' or 'IST supers' setting. If you change 3, then you can get a
> Wildcards setting.
>
> Does anybody have any more principles and suggestions for how varying them
> can create different settings ? Thoughts and comments welcome. Curt Hicks
>
Great topic! There does seem to be a huge amount of strange assumptions
in comics. Here's my contribution:
* Super-types _always_ come back from the dead (Magneto has died 27
times). Deaths are very rare, despite constant danger.
* Super-villians often become heroes, usually with an edge to them (like
Magneto, for instance).
* Even after super-villians have their secret identities revealed, they
continue to wear masks and costumes (like... Magneto!!!).
* No one with super-powers ever runs for or achieves political office...
unless they are EVIL!!!
* Super-types often have a hodgepodge of unrelated powers (eg
Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Superman/girl/boy, Wonder Woman)
* Super-powers are uncommon.
* The government has no problem with super-heroes stopping crime (without
first being trained and liscensed as law-enforcement).
* Super-types are not used as a political tool, do not support specific
political candidates, and have either generic or non-existant politics.
* Super-types have no religion, or if they do it involves ancient
mythology (eg Thor, Wonder Woman, Hercules).
* Super-advanced technology exists, but is only in the hands of
super-types, such as the JLA, X-Men, or Fantastic Four.
* Super-powers are almost always of the useful variety (with a special
exemption for Arms Fall Off Boy and Matter Eater Lad).
* Super-types do not use their powers and fame to make money through
legitimate means (product endorsement, autograph signings, speaking
tours).
* The study of super-powers and magic are not part of the standard offered
programs in a college, and are not considered a legitimate science.
* Super-powers are a fairly recent occurance (within the past 100 years)
and represent an evolutionary leap.
* Unstable molecules allow super-types to use their powers without
worrying about their costumes being burnt off, shredded, etc.
* Their is an easy, but undescribed, way for super-types to obtain
costumes with their insignia on them, without leaving a paper trail.
* Super-types prefer to wear skin-tight costumes to armor or anything that
might be practical or provide protection.
* Everyone who has super-powers is extremely attractive.
* Everyone with super-powers is in their late teens or 20's. No one ever
ages, but time passes, presidents change, year after year of adventures
continue (how old is Shadowcat? how old was she 20 years ago?).
This is all I can think of for the moment. I'm sure there are many more.
-Eric
aka Turkey Volume Guessing Man
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Fishy Powers and Underwater Action!
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:51:42 -0400 (EDT)
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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X-UID: 13
Hey, everybody! I have a two-fin... er, two-fold question to ask. Are
there any rules about underwater action/combat? What sorts of penalties
would be appropriate? And how would you counteract those penalties for an
aquatic hero (a la Aquaman, Submariner, etc.).
Secondly, does anyone have any ideas for "underwater tricks", creative
super-powers that fit into the underwater hero paradigm? Has anyone
created an aquatic character that they are particularly proud of, and is
availible online? Tanks- I mean thanks!
-Eric (with water on the brain)
aka Turkey Volume Guessing Man
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:45:34 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
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The mere act of putting on tights and giving yourself a cool name grants
you all the 'story' privileges of a super. Anyone with an hours training in
karate can put on tights, run around beatingup muggers, and get invited to
hang out with Superman and Green Lantern, as if he was actually useful.
(This altered somewhat after WW2, but has not entirely vanished)
There are a virtually infinite number of nations, most of which are less
than one square mile in area but which still manage to raise an equip
world-conquering armies.
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:49:30 -0400
Subject: Caliber/Damage
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-24
From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
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I could use some help. I asked Steve Long for an expansion of said chart
from his Dark Champions book, since I'm writing up military vehicles. He
does not have easy access to his notes, and said it'll take a while.
However, I'm working against deadline, and leaving town in a few days.
What do you suggest for the following?
Caliber Damage
.50/12.7mm 3d6
14.5mm 3d6+1
? 3.5d6
? 4d6-1
? 4d6
? 4d6+1
? 4.5d6
? 5d6-1
? 5d6
? 5d6+1
? 5.5d6
? 6d6-1
? 6d6
? 6d6+1
? 6.5d6
? 7d6-1
etc.
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:21:23 -0400
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: Spell-like abilities
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> I'm starting a Fantasy Hero game and have a problem making up my mind about
> something. In this game, I've got people who have spell-like abilities that
> can be suppressed by certain spells. There also people who's powers are not
> suppressable by magic. I want to give the "spell-like abilities" people a
> small point break, so do I:
> 1) give the s-la people a limitation (suppressable)
> or
> 2) give the other group an advantage (not suppressable)
> and
> 3) how much of a point break (1/4 or 1/2)? These suppression spells are
> common, but not a dime a dozen.
This is technically a special effect difference, but when special effect makes
that much of a difference, it's worth a limitation. (I wouldn't use an
advantage because there's no generic "Advantaged Power" advantage, while there
is "Limited Power".)
If the PCs will face someone with a suppress spell every other episode or so,
I'd give it a -1/2; if less than that, -1/4.
Geoff Speare
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: New spin on Variable Advantage and Multipower
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>>>>> "JM" == Joe Mucchiello <why@mars.superlink.net> writes:
JM> I was looking at Variable Advantage and I could not understand why it
JM> costs +1 in addition to the advantage granted. Seems to me that it's
JM> value is overestimated.
Because you are making a flawed comparison. Multipower has a limited
number of potential advantages, limited by the number of slots you
purchase. Variable Advantage allows for theoretically infinite
combinations of advantages, limited only by the "size" of the Variable
Advantage.
Try comparing Variable Advantage with Variable Power Pool instead.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
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X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:57:04 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Fishy Powers and Underwater Action!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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At 10:51 AM 7/25/97 -0400, Eric Burns wrote:
>Hey, everybody! I have a two-fin... er, two-fold question to ask. Are
>there any rules about underwater action/combat? What sorts of penalties
>would be appropriate? And how would you counteract those penalties for an
>aquatic hero (a la Aquaman, Submariner, etc.).
>
There was a supplement (short) devoted to that, 3rd edition, I think. It's
packed at the moment. ("Scourge of the Seas"? "Attack From The Deep"?
Something like that...)
It had a killer dolphin, IIRC.
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:37:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: New spin on Variable Advantage and Multipower
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Stainless Steel Rat writes:
>
> Because you are making a flawed comparison. Multipower has a limited
> number of potential advantages, limited by the number of slots you
> purchase. Variable Advantage allows for theoretically infinite
> combinations of advantages, limited only by the "size" of the Variable
> Advantage.
Not that variable advantage _isn't_ somewhat fishily priced, but for different
reasons. The ability to switch between many different +1/4 advantages is not
worth the same as the ability to switch between many different +1 advantages
(or combinations of advantage), but both are just a flat +1 advantage on top of
the base power.
Incidentally, how should 'variable advantage' combine with extra damage classes
(from strength/whatever)? Variable advantage itself doesn't affect either your
way of hitting or your way of doing damage; depending on the advantage bought,
that advantage might or might not. Will an HKA with variable advantage do
different damage depending on what advantage you are using at the moment?
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: New spin on Variable Advantage and Multipower
Mail-Copies-To: never
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>>>>> "AJ" == Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> writes:
AJ> The ability to switch between many different +1/4 advantages is not
AJ> worth the same as the ability to switch between many different +1
AJ> advantages
Yes, it is: the +1 is the ability to alter one's advantage "configuration"
much as one can alter allocation of skill levels. How much is being
configured has no bearing on one's ability to do so. That is why it is
based on the cost of the base power rather than the amount of advantages
one may play with.
- From another angle, you are right, though. There is a difference between a
+1/4 Variable Advantage and a +1 Variable Advantage: the size "pool" of
advantages. The respective costs, +1 1/4 and +2, do reflect this.
AJ> Incidentally, how should 'variable advantage' combine with extra damage
AJ> classes (from strength/whatever)?
Does the Variable Advantage itself affect the Damage Classes of the attack?
The answer to that question answers your question.
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From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:38:18 -0400
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
Newsgroups: october.hero
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Just to be a jerk, counter examples follow.
People, please use the words often or usually, not always.
herolist wrote:
>
> From: Eric Burns <burns@usmcug.usm.maine.edu>
> Subject: 4 color principles
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> > I've been thinking recently about some of the implied assumptions or
> > basic principles of typical superhero settings.
> > I'm sure I've missed some, but here's what I have so far.
> >
> > 1** alien races exist and are interested in earth
But never seem to accomplish anything.
> >
> > 2** super-humans typically assume a costumed identity in which to use
> > their powers
> >
> > 3** super-powers can be caused by many different sources
Increasingly and unfortunately rarer these days. Re DC's metagene and Marvels'
the Celestials dis it rifs.
> >
> > 4** the presence of super-humans has had no real effect on society or history
> > (this is the old "why doesn't everybody have blasters ?" comment, or that
> > the outcomes of wars and the like weren't changed by the presence of supers)
> >
> > So what ? The point being, that if you change some of these assumptions,
> > then you can get less generic settings. If you change 4, then you get a
> > 'Watchmen' or 'IST supers' setting. If you change 3, then you can get a
> > Wildcards setting.
> >
> > Does anybody have any more principles and suggestions for how varying them
> > can create different settings ? Thoughts and comments welcome. Curt Hicks
> >
>
> Great topic! There does seem to be a huge amount of strange assumptions
> in comics. Here's my contribution:
>
> * Super-types _always_ come back from the dead (Magneto has died 27
> times). Deaths are very rare, despite constant danger.
Barry Allen, Captain Marvel. Still dead.
>
> * Super-villians often become heroes, usually with an edge to them (like
> Magneto, for instance).
>
> * Even after super-villians have their secret identities revealed, they
> continue to wear masks and costumes (like... Magneto!!!).
>
> * No one with super-powers ever runs for or achieves political office...
> unless they are EVIL!!!
>
Superman, Captain America, and Howard the Duck have all run. Supes won.
> * Super-types often have a hodgepodge of unrelated powers (eg
> Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Superman/girl/boy, Wonder Woman)
>
> * Super-powers are uncommon.
Increasingly false. :)
>
> * The government has no problem with super-heroes stopping crime (without
> first being trained and liscensed as law-enforcement).
Really? Various issues of Batman, X-Men, Avengers etc.
>
> * Super-types are not used as a political tool, do not support specific
> political candidates, and have either generic or non-existant politics.
Various issues of Captain America.
>
> * Super-types have no religion, or if they do it involves ancient
> mythology (eg Thor, Wonder Woman, Hercules).
Exceptions too numerous to mention.
>
> * Super-advanced technology exists, but is only in the hands of
> super-types, such as the JLA, X-Men, or Fantastic Four.
And SHIELD! They aren't supers.
>
> * Super-powers are almost always of the useful variety (with a special
> exemption for Arms Fall Off Boy and Matter Eater Lad).
>
> * Super-types do not use their powers and fame to make money through
> legitimate means (product endorsement, autograph signings, speaking
> tours).
Wally West Flash. Booster Gold.
>
> * The study of super-powers and magic are not part of the standard offered
> programs in a college, and are not considered a legitimate science.
DC and Marvel now have courses in meta-human genetics.
>
> * Super-powers are a fairly recent occurance (within the past 100 years)
> and represent an evolutionary leap.
Or deliberate tampering by extraterrestrial forces.
>
> * Unstable molecules allow super-types to use their powers without
> worrying about their costumes being burnt off, shredded, etc.
Explicity stated only for Marvel.
>
> * Their is an easy, but undescribed, way for super-types to obtain
> costumes with their insignia on them, without leaving a paper trail.
It's called sewing.
>
> * Super-types prefer to wear skin-tight costumes to armor or anything that
> might be practical or provide protection.
Iron Man.
>
> * Everyone who has super-powers is extremely attractive.
Ben Grim.
>
> * Everyone with super-powers is in their late teens or 20's. No one ever
> ages, but time passes, presidents change, year after year of adventures
> continue (how old is Shadowcat? how old was she 20 years ago?).
Jay Garrick. Members of the Blasters.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Gary G MIles <GGM1201@dmacc.cc.ia.us>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:23:18 -0700
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
Newsgroups: october.hero
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herolist wrote:
>
> From: Eric Burns <burns@usmcug.usm.maine.edu>
> Subject: 4 color principles
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> > Does anybody have any more principles and suggestions for how varying them
> > can create different settings ? Thoughts and comments welcome. Curt Hicks
> >
>
> Great topic! There does seem to be a huge amount of strange assumptions
> in comics. Here's my contribution:
>
> * Super-types _always_ come back from the dead (Magneto has died 27
> times). Deaths are very rare, despite constant danger. Barry Allen (Flash), Hal Jordan (Green Lantern), Kara (Supergirl)
>
> * Super-villians often become heroes, usually with an edge to them (like
> Magneto, for instance).
>
> * Even after super-villians have their secret identities revealed, they
> continue to wear masks and costumes (like... Magneto!!!).
>
> * No one with super-powers ever runs for or achieves political office...
> unless they are EVIL!!! Captain America ran for President.
>
> * Super-types often have a hodgepodge of unrelated powers (eg
> Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Superman/girl/boy, Wonder Woman)
>
> * Super-powers are uncommon.
>
> * The government has no problem with super-heroes stopping crime
>(without
> first being trained and liscensed as law-enforcement).
>
> * Super-types are not used as a political tool, do not support specific
> political candidates, and have either generic or non-existant politics. Doctor Doom leads an entire nation. Many supervillains are
political terrorists.
>
> * Super-types have no religion, or if they do it involves ancient
> mythology (eg Thor, Wonder Woman, Hercules). Marvel has Bonita Juarez (?)(I don't remember her hero ID).
And of course, theirs Sister Shannon (Warrior Nun Areala)!
>
> * Super-advanced technology exists, but is only in the hands of
> super-types, such as the JLA, X-Men, or Fantastic Four. Or SHIELD, the Metropolis SCU, the Vault, etc.
>
> * Super-powers are almost always of the useful variety (with a special
> exemption for Arms Fall Off Boy and Matter Eater Lad).
>
> * Super-types do not use their powers and fame to make money through
> legitimate means (product endorsement, autograph signings, speaking
> tours). Booster Gold does dozens of endorsements.
>
> * The study of super-powers and magic are not part of the standard offered
> programs in a college, and are not considered a legitimate science.
>
> * Super-powers are a fairly recent occurance (within the past 100 years)
> and represent an evolutionary leap.
>
> * Unstable molecules allow super-types to use their powers without
> worrying about their costumes being burnt off, shredded, etc.
>
> * Their is an easy, but undescribed, way for super-types to obtain
> costumes with their insignia on them, without leaving a paper trail.
>
> * Super-types prefer to wear skin-tight costumes to armor or anything that
> might be practical or provide protection.
>
> * Everyone who has super-powers is extremely attractive. Unless they're supervillains.
>
> * Everyone with super-powers is in their late teens or 20's. No one ever
> ages, but time passes, presidents change, year after year of adventures
> continue (how old is Shadowcat? how old was she 20 years ago?).
>
> This is all I can think of for the moment. I'm sure there are many more.
>
> -Eric
> aka Turkey Volume Guessing Man
My comments are not to try and take away from your excellent commentary.
I just like to point out the exceptions on rules (call it a quirk...). :)
Gary
ggm1201@dmacc.cc.ia.us
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From: "Stephen B. Mann" <sm6439@cnsvax.albany.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:34:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Spell-like abilities
Newsgroups: october.hero
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From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
> If the PCs will face someone with a suppress spell every other episode or so,
> I'd give it a -1/2; if less than that, -1/4.
Thanks. I'm toying with the idea of making the suppression spells
more specific that the generic AD&D "Dispel Magic" spell. For instance,
some one with flame powers might be suppressed by someone with a
"control flame" spell, and only with that spell. That'll probably make
the limitation -1/2.
--
Stephen B. Mann sm6439@cnsvax.albany.edu
SUNY Learning Network http://sln1.esc.edu
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:42:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Caliber/Damage
Cc: champ-l@omg.org, champ-l@omg.org
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William G Geiger writes:
> I could use some help. I asked Steve Long for an expansion of said chart
> from his Dark Champions book, since I'm writing up military vehicles. He
> does not have easy access to his notes, and said it'll take a while.
> However, I'm working against deadline, and leaving town in a few days.
> What do you suggest for the following?
Defining the power of weapons is always slightly complicated, as Hero is
somewhat inconsistent about what a damage class _means_. Judging by the
strength table, +1 DC is equal to a doubling in kinetic energy. Judging by the
armor weights table, +2 DC is a doubling in penetration. Judging by some of
the explosives tables, +2 DC is a doubling in explosive force. The table below
assumes that the first of those is the most accurate. Using that:
Dam Bore Example
3d6 12.7 heavy machine gun
3d6+1 16 essentially nonexistent
3.5d6 20mm typical aircraft cannon
4d6 25mm chaingun on a modern APC
4d6+1 30mm A-10
4.5d6 40mm essentially nonexistent
5d6 50mm early WWII tank
5d6+1 60mm mid-WWII tank
5.5d6 80mm tank, late-WWII and 50s
6d6 100mm tank from 60s and 70s
6d6+1 120mm modern tank
In addition, modify for ammunition type:
hollow point: reduced penetration, +1 stun mod
steel: list damage
AP/APC: -1 damage class, AP (typical of tanks before the 70s)
APDS/APFSDS: AP (typical of modern tanks)
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:53:45 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 10:31 AM 7/25/97 -0400, Eric Burns wrote:
>Great topic! There does seem to be a huge amount of strange assumptions
>in comics. Here's my contribution:
>
>* Super-types _always_ come back from the dead (Magneto has died 27
>times). Deaths are very rare, despite constant danger.
Except for Bucky Barnes (Agamemnon doesn't count), Captain Mar-Vell, and
Junior Juniper. (Okay, so the last one isn't really a "super type").
>* Super-types often have a hodgepodge of unrelated powers (eg
>Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Superman/girl/boy, Wonder Woman)
Eh -- they just as often DON'T have said hodgepodge. And Wolvie's powers
aren't really a "hodgepodge" -- he's just a standard issue feral.
>* The government has no problem with super-heroes stopping crime (without
>first being trained and liscensed as law-enforcement).
The existence of Henry Peter Gyrich in Marvel storylines implies quite the
opposite -- rather, "The government's problems with superheroes stopping
crimes are irrelevant, unless the government is represented by someone EVIL
(Bastion)."
>* Super-types have no religion, or if they do it involves ancient
>mythology (eg Thor, Wonder Woman, Hercules).
Thor & Hercules don't have religion, they ARE religion. :]
>* Super-advanced technology exists, but is only in the hands of
>super-types, such as the JLA, X-Men, or Fantastic Four.
See below.
>* Super-types do not use their powers and fame to make money through
>legitimate means (product endorsement, autograph signings, speaking
>tours).
See Spider-man's origins for the reason WHY. ;]
>* Unstable molecules allow super-types to use their powers without
>worrying about their costumes being burnt off, shredded, etc.
Actually, Marvel deserves a little credit for at least trying to explain
this phenomena -- in other superhero universes, supertypes can use their
powers with neither worry NOR unstable molecules.
>* Everyone who has super-powers is extremely attractive.
Actually, this can be more generalized: "Any major character is either
extremely attractive or extremely ugly. There is no middle ground."
>* Everyone with super-powers is in their late teens or 20's. No one ever
>ages, but time passes, presidents change, year after year of adventures
>continue (how old is Shadowcat? how old was she 20 years ago?).
This isn't quite as absurd as you think -- it's a consequence of fictional
time dilation, the difference between "story time" (akin to "game time") and
real time. Think about this for a moment -- just because a whole month
passes for YOU between issues doesn't mean it does for the characters -- it
can take a whole year to tell a story which only represents a week or so for
the characters.
The real problem is that, while keeping the time progression more or less
consistent within story time, they then use all the same temporal landmarks
(holidays, milestone events, etc.) as the real world.
>This is all I can think of for the moment. I'm sure there are many more.
1. "Good" and "Evil" are tangible forces in the world, not just
abstract and arbitrary concepts.
2. Possessing superhuman powers forces one to take sides on the
morality scale -- there are no neutral superhumans. Attempts
to remain neutral will lead to tragedy, since (all together
now) with great power also comes great responsibility.
3. Those who *create* advanced abilities (science or magic) will
hoard it, since (if they are Good) they do not want it to fall
in The Wrong Hands or (if they are Evil) they do not want to
share their power and risk losing it.
(This genre convention explains the technology gap between local
police and HYDRA/VIPER/SKULL/what-have-you, without having to
resort to Illuminatistic plot contortions as suggested in =High
Tech Enemies=)
4. Those who =gain= advanced abilities via accident will find their
origins unrepeatable under controlled conditions.
5. The probability of any attack hitting is inversely proportional
to the intensity of the attack relative to the target's durability.
Spider-man can dodge bullets but not punches or melee strikes;
"bricks", even those described as having above-average agility,
cannot avoid the broad side of a barn (say, being thrown by
another brick).
6. Superhuman strength has exactly the same effects as normal human
strength, multiplied by the factor of the strength. Hitting
someone with a fist capable of lifting 200 toos does not create
the same effects as 200 tons of force (say, from a jackhammer) --
going right through the target -- but rather the same effects as
a punch from 200 lbs. of strength, except the person will be
knocked backwards 2000 times further and stay unconscious 2000
times longer.
By extension, center of gravity is meaningless -- if you have
strength sufficient to lift a dense block of X weight, you can
lift any object of X weight, no matter how awkard its shape or
fragile its construction (i.e. you can lift a building without
it falling apart).
7. It is possible to knock people unconscious through brute force
without risk of serious injury (i.e., "STUN" exists). Popping
someone in the side of the head won't cause concussions if you
didn't want it to, it will just knock someone out cold.
8. Like attracts like. Having superhuman powers will exponentially
increase your likelihood of encountering superhuman individuals.
Certain phenomena of reality can ONLY be percieved or encountered
by superhumans (such as Marvel's Eternity).
9. "Normal" people stubbornly insist on remaining "normal", such
that society does not radically change from our own due to the
presence of supers. "Normal" people still consider magic,
mysticism, mythology, and other real world improbabilia (such
as conspiracy theory and UFOs) to be bunko, or at best taken
with a grain of salt, despite the overwhelming evidence to the
contrary (Thor's presence as a famous superhero does not convince
the general public of the existence of Norse gods, Zataana's
presence on the JLA does not make magic a household word, etc.)
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
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X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:53:50 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: Signs of the Apocalypse! (was: Mage)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:59 PM 7/17/97 -0400, Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote:
>> Hero Games publishes a 5th Edition?
>
>Won't happen. Change it to Fuzion becomes an enjoyable and playable system.
That's sort of the point. Signs of the Apocalypse should be unthinkable
occurrences -- if something THIS improbable happens, The End Is Near.
>> A *successful* science fiction game from TSR?
>
>TSR who?
(*sigh*) I've said it before: did ABC sign off the air when Disney bought
Capital Cities? Did Velveeta evaporate off the shelves when Dart bought
Kraft? TSR got bought out, they didn't get DISMANTLED (yet).
>Change it do D+D once again becomes an enjoyable and playable system.
I wasn't aware it ever WAS a playable system. :]
>BTW, TSR does have a new SF game coming out supposedly. Don't know many
>details but looks like a more mystical Traveller. B5 clone maybe?
Again, something of the point. TSR has worse luck with SF games than NBC has
with news magazines. Metamorphisis Alpha, Gamma World (4-5 editions), Star
Frontiers, Proton Fire (The Game That Never Was), Buck Rogers XXVc, Buck
Rogers Cliffhangers, Bughunters ... I give Alternity 2 years, max.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
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X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:53:52 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:38 PM 7/25/97 -0400, Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote:
>> > 3** super-powers can be caused by many different sources
>
> Increasingly and unfortunately rarer these days. Re DC's metagene and
> Marvels' the Celestials dis it rifs.
Even here, though, there are still multiple sources -- these only limit the
causes of "standard" (innate) superpowers amongst human beings. There's
still magic, super-science, previously unknown alien backgrounds, etc.
>> * Super-types _always_ come back from the dead (Magneto has died 27
>> times). Deaths are very rare, despite constant danger.
>
>Barry Allen, Captain Marvel. Still dead.
Barry Allen isn't dead, he's in the Marvel Universe hanging out with the
Runner. (Long story).
For what it's worth, Marvel editors have stated before that two characters
(Bucky Barnes and Captain Mar-Vell) have permanent death status -- everyone
else is up in the air.
>> * No one with super-powers ever runs for or achieves political office...
>> unless they are EVIL!!!
>
>Superman, Captain America, and Howard the Duck have all run. Supes won.
Actually, Captain America did NOT run -- he shut down the campaign after
realizing that the ideal of "Captain America" could not be constrained to
any single political party or ideology.
Howard the Duck isn't a super-type -- he's just a normal, everyday kind of
person who just happens to be a duck. Let's not be judgemental, okay? :]
>> * Super-types often have a hodgepodge of unrelated powers (eg
>> Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Superman/girl/boy, Wonder Woman)
>>
>> * Super-powers are uncommon.
>
>Increasingly false. :)
Remembering the population of the world (5 billion), even given the amount
of supers running around in comics it's still true that powers are
=relatively= uncommon.
==
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
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Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:53:52 -0500
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero),champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: www.softfarm.com ip 207.40.36.2
X-Smtp-Mail-From: ludator@softfarm.com
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:38 PM 7/25/97 -0400, Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote:
>> > 3** super-powers can be caused by many different sources
>
> Increasingly and unfortunately rarer these days. Re DC's metagene and
> Marvels' the Celestials dis it rifs.
Even here, though, there are still multiple sources -- these only limit the
causes of "standard" (innate) superpowers amongst human beings. There's
still magic, super-science, previously unknown alien backgrounds, etc.
>> * Super-types _always_ come back from the dead (Magneto has died 27
>> times). Deaths are very rare, despite constant danger.
>
>Barry Allen, Captain Marvel. Still dead.
Barry Allen isn't dead, he's in the Marvel Universe hanging out with the
Runner. (Long story).
For what it's worth, Marvel editors have stated before that two characters
(Bucky Barnes and Captain Mar-Vell) have permanent death status -- everyone
else is up in the air.
>> * No one with super-powers ever runs for or achieves political office...
>> unless they are EVIL!!!
>
>Superman, Captain America, and Howard the Duck have all run. Supes won.
Actually, Captain America did NOT run -- he shut down the campaign after
realizing that the ideal of "Captain America" could not be constrained to
any single political party or ideology.
Howard the Duck isn't a super-type -- he's just a normal, everyday kind of
person who just happens to be a duck. Let's not be judgemental, okay? :]
>> * Super-types often have a hodgepodge of unrelated powers (eg
>> Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Superman/girl/boy, Wonder Woman)
>>
>> * Super-powers are uncommon.
>
>Increasingly false. :)
Remembering the population of the world (5 billion), even given the amount
of supers running around in comics it's still true that powers are
=relatively= uncommon.
==
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
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Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 17:20:19 -0400
X-Sender: nez@pop3.thepoint.net
From: The Nez Master <nez@thepoint.net>
Subject: Re: Fishy Powers and Underwater Action!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 10:51 AM 7/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey, everybody! I have a two-fin... er, two-fold question to ask. Are
>there any rules about underwater action/combat? What sorts of penalties
>would be appropriate? And how would you counteract those penalties for an
>aquatic hero (a la Aquaman, Submariner, etc.).
>
>Secondly, does anyone have any ideas for "underwater tricks", creative
>super-powers that fit into the underwater hero paradigm? Has anyone
>created an aquatic character that they are particularly proud of, and is
>availible online? Tanks- I mean thanks!
>
The vastly underrated supplement Atlantis is chock full of how to handle
underwater combat, ideas for underwater hereos/villians/powers.
>-Eric (with water on the brain)
> aka Turkey Volume Guessing Man
>
>
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: ROJASA%BALIN.DECNET@UTHSCSA.EDU
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:21:39 -0500 (CDT)
X-To: hero-l@october.com
Subject: Re: Spell-like abilities
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: arwen.uthscsa.edu ip 129.111.11.81
X-Smtp-Mail-From: ROJASA%BALIN.DECNET@UTHSCSA.EDU
X-Vms-To: ARWEN::IN%"hero-l@october.com"
X-Vms-Cc: ROJASA
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>I'm starting a Fantasy Hero game and have a problem making up my
>mind about something. In this game, I've got people who have spell-like
>abilities that can be suppressed by certain spells. There also people
>who's powers are not suppressable by magic. I want to give the
>"spell-like abilities" people a small point break, so do I:
>
>1) give the s-la people a limitation (suppressable)
>or
>2) give the other group an advantage (not suppressable)
>and
>3) how much of a point break (1/4 or 1/2)? These suppression spells are
>common, but not a dime a dozen.
>
>--
>
>Stephen B. Mann sm6439@cnsvax.albany.edu
How about giving the second group Power Defense (only vs Power suppression).
This way if someone casts a spell that drains their strength, it will still
work. You could even make it part of a package deal for that group.
Alex
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:43:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Bryan Berggren writes:
> Eh -- they just as often DON'T have said hodgepodge. And Wolvie's powers
> aren't really a "hodgepodge" -- he's just a standard issue feral.
Actually, he might be considered 'prototypical feral'. I can't think of any
characters like him which predate him, though there's plenty since him.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:39:19 -0400
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
Newsgroups: october.hero
X-Listname: Hero
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Path: october.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Prometheus Corp.
Lines: 6
X-Sender: richberg@nrf-as7s09.erols.com
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-UID: 35
Bryan Berggren wrote:
>
> Howard the Duck isn't a super-type -- he's just a normal, everyday kind of
> person who just happens to be a duck. Let's not be judgemental, okay? :]
He has the power to grow feathers. Can you do that?
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richberg@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:49:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Signs of the Apocalypse! (was: Mage)
Newsgroups: october.hero
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october.com!not-for-mail
Organization: Prometheus Corp.
Lines: 45
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Nntp-Posting-Host: nrf-as7s09.erols.com
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-UID: 34
herolist wrote:
>
> From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
> Subject: Re: Signs of the Apocalypse! (was: Mage)
> To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> At 02:59 PM 7/17/97 -0400, Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote:
> >> Hero Games publishes a 5th Edition?
> >
> >Won't happen. Change it to Fuzion becomes an enjoyable and playable system.
>
> That's sort of the point. Signs of the Apocalypse should be unthinkable
> occurrences -- if something THIS improbable happens, The End Is Near.
If it won't occur how can we ever have an Apocalypse? C'mon keep things fair.
God'll wrap up the show some day.
>
> >> A *successful* science fiction game from TSR?
> >
> >TSR who?
>
> (*sigh*) I've said it before: did ABC sign off the air when Disney bought
> Capital Cities? Did Velveeta evaporate off the shelves when Dart bought
> Kraft? TSR got bought out, they didn't get DISMANTLED (yet).
It was a joke, son. Calm down.
>
> >Change it do D+D once again becomes an enjoyable and playable system.
>
> I wasn't aware it ever WAS a playable system. :]
We used to play it. I won't vouch for how though.
>
> >BTW, TSR does have a new SF game coming out supposedly. Don't know many
> >details but looks like a more mystical Traveller. B5 clone maybe?
>
> Again, something of the point. TSR has worse luck with SF games than NBC has
> with news magazines. Metamorphisis Alpha, Gamma World (4-5 editions), Star
> Frontiers, Proton Fire (The Game That Never Was), Buck Rogers XXVc, Buck
> Rogers Cliffhangers, Bughunters ... I give Alternity 2 years, max.
Sad to say I agree. I actually liked Amazing Engine, but where is it now...
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "Larian" <vmsmith@execpc.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 17:56:34 -0500
X-To: "Multiple recipients of Hero" <hero-l@october.com&> <champ-l@omg.org>
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: mailgw00.execpc.com ip 169.207.16.5
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X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
----------
> > > Does anybody have any more principles and suggestions for how varying
them
> > > can create different settings ? Thoughts and comments welcome.
Curt Hicks
> > >
> >
> > Great topic! There does seem to be a huge amount of strange
assumptions
> > in comics. Here's my contribution:
> >
Here are just a couple off the top of my head:
*No female(or male for that matter) super (Wonder Woman or Vamprella for
example) ever pop out of there scanty costumes, or have them ride up,
during all the various splits, tumbles, dives and rolls they go thru in an
average fight. Katarena Witt poped out of her skating out fit on TV, and
she was only doing a spin. what holds those outfits on, superglue?
*No super Heros have ever gotten into politics, only villans!
*supers always seem to have better responce time than even the best police
force.
*No hero ever gets hit in the groin, or the knee. (two great targets,
taught in most all martial arts classes.) and no female super ever gets hit
in those mammoth PFD's(Personal Flotation Devices) they all seem to have
these days.
*All master villans are Meglomanical fools that build there plans with
holes you could drive a mack truck through. or they play with the heros
when they should just kill them.
*Villans have massive sensors covering every inch of there base, that can
detect a flea's fart at fifty paces, but the captured hero always manages
to keep a hidden lock pick, or weapon.
*why dosent the Hulks, or Supermans fist go completely throught someone?
with the kind of force behind those punches, most people should explode
like water ballons.
all for now
LATER:)
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: john.desmarais@ibm.net
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 97 19:31:19 -0400
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: out2.ibm.net ip 165.87.194.229
X-Smtp-Mail-From: john.desmarais@ibm.net
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
In <199707252257.RAA26148@mailgw00.execpc.com&> on 07/25/97
at 05:56 PM, "Larian" <vmsmith@execpc.com> said:
>*No super Heros have ever gotten into politics, only villans!
Batman (pre-Crisis, both Earth-1 and Earth-2 versions), Green Arrow
(pre-Crisis but may still be part of continuity), and Nighthawk (the
Squadron Supreme version) are three heroes I can name off the top of my
head who were politicians at some point in their lives. Quick, who can
name some more?
>*why dosent the Hulks, or Supermans fist go completely throught someone?
>with the kind of force behind those punches, most people should explode
>like water ballons.
Because it would be icky.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
john.desmarais@ibm.net
-----------------------------------------------------------
From: john.desmarais@ibm.net
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 97 19:35:29 -0400
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
In <ML-2.3.869867010.6212.ajackson@ping&> on 07/25/97
at 02:43 PM, Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> said:
>Bryan Berggren writes:
>
>> Eh -- they just as often DON'T have said hodgepodge. And Wolvie's powers
>> aren't really a "hodgepodge" -- he's just a standard issue feral.
>Actually, he might be considered 'prototypical feral'. I can't think of
>any characters like him which predate him, though there's plenty since
>him.
Hmmm... The earliest "feral" character I can think of is Timber Wolf
(Legion of Super Heroes), although he ceased being quite so noticable in
his feral-ness shortly after joining the LSH.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
john.desmarais@ibm.net
-----------------------------------------------------------
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:59:03 -0700
X-To: champ-l@omg.org, hero-l@october.com
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: mercury.Sun.COM ip 192.9.25.1
X-Smtp-Mail-From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-> From john.desmarais@ibm.net Fri Jul 25 16:47:55 1997
->
-> >*No super Heros have ever gotten into politics, only villans!
->
-> Batman (pre-Crisis, both Earth-1 and Earth-2 versions), Green Arrow
-> (pre-Crisis but may still be part of continuity), and Nighthawk (the
-> Squadron Supreme version) are three heroes I can name off the top of my
-> head who were politicians at some point in their lives. Quick, who can
-> name some more?
->
Batgirl (pre-crisis) was a senator, El Diablo held some sort of office,
Vigilante was a DA (an elected position, may or may not be considered
a politician). But Matter-Eater Lad became President (of Bismoll).
-Sam
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:54:00 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>>> * Super-types _always_ come back from the dead (Magneto has died 27
>>> times). Deaths are very rare, despite constant danger.
>>
>>Barry Allen, Captain Marvel. Still dead.
>
>Barry Allen isn't dead, he's in the Marvel Universe hanging out with the
>Runner. (Long story).
>
>For what it's worth, Marvel editors have stated before that two characters
>(Bucky Barnes and Captain Mar-Vell) have permanent death status -- everyone
>else is up in the air.
Heck, even being dead doesn't stop some heroes - like Drax the Destroyer
(thought applying 'hero' to Drax is kinda iffy...). And Mar-Vell did offer
some handy advice to the Silver Surfer from beyond the grave during the
whole Infinity Gauntlet thing. Dead does not equal gone in 4 color comics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"GINA, do know how RUDE it is to build a THERMONUCLEAR DEVICE in someone
else's house?"
-NHS #56
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:18:13 -0500
From: Joel Vallejo <jvallejo@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jvallejo@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Larian wrote:
>
> *No super Heros have ever gotten into politics, only villans!
>
Actually Captain America ran for president. In a couple of Elseworlds,
Alan Scott the original Green Lantern has been portrayed as a Senator.
Aquaman and Namor are both kings of Atlantis, and Val Cooper of X-Factor
is a govenment employee.
> *No hero ever gets hit in the groin, or the knee. (two great targets,
> taught in most all martial arts classes.) and no female super ever gets hit
> in those mammoth PFD's(Personal Flotation Devices) they all seem to have
> these days.
Actually in Gen 13, people get hit in the crown jewels all the time.
Comments: Authenticated sender is <filkhero@pop.netaddress.com>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:20:40 +0000
Subject: Re: Spell-like abilities
Reply-to: filkhero@usa.net
Priority: normal
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> Stephen B. Mann wrote:
> >
> >
> > 1) give the s-la people a limitation (suppressable)
> > or
> > 2) give the other group an advantage (not suppressable)
Well, simply declare the two groups to be different special effects,
then make the suppress in question a suppress vs. one of those special
effects and not the other. Just because the two types of powers are
mystical doesn't necessarily mean they have the same special effect.
Filksinger
"Keeping in mind that the notes we sing are never, ever, wrong!"
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:00:28 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
From: happyelf! <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 08:54 PM 7/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>>> * Super-types _always_ come back from the dead (Magneto has died 27
>>>> times). Deaths are very rare, despite constant danger.
>>>
>>>Barry Allen, Captain Marvel. Still dead.
>>
>>Barry Allen isn't dead, he's in the Marvel Universe hanging out with the
>>Runner. (Long story).
>>
yeah- but that's 'buried alien' to you! and he is dead, he melted into the
speed field. . . .'less savitar turns up in a spidey mag. . .
>>For what it's worth, Marvel editors have stated before that two characters
>>(Bucky Barnes and Captain Mar-Vell) have permanent death status -- everyone
>>else is up in the air.
>
ben reilly? i'm still hopin' they bring him back
>Heck, even being dead doesn't stop some heroes - like Drax the Destroyer
>(thought applying 'hero' to Drax is kinda iffy...). And Mar-Vell did offer
>some handy advice to the Silver Surfer from beyond the grave during the
>whole Infinity Gauntlet thing. Dead does not equal gone in 4 color comics.
>
yes- so dead should not be restricted- think of it as the ultimate radiation accident. . .
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"GINA, do know how RUDE it is to build a THERMONUCLEAR DEVICE in someone
>else's house?"
>-NHS #56
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>John D. Prins
>jprins@interhop.net
>
>
>
>
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:38:50 -0700
X-To: Multiple recipients of Hero <hero-l@october.com>
Subject: Re: Spell-like abilities
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: smtp3.erols.com ip 205.252.116.103
X-Smtp-Mail-From: robtwest@erols.com
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Stephen B. Mann wrote:
>
>
> 1) give the s-la people a limitation (suppressable)
> or
> 2) give the other group an advantage (not suppressable)
Why not use the book advantage designed for this purpose? Difficult to
Dispel(+1/4) is described on p.94. It affects both Dispel and Suppress
by doubling the effective Active Points. It can be purchased multiple
times with successive doublings: +1/2 acts as 4xActPts, +3/4 acts as 8x,
etc. +1 (x16) would be almost impossible to Dispel/Suppress unless it
were a puny power.
> --
>
> Stephen B. Mann sm6439@cnsvax.albany.edu
> SUNY Learning Network http://sln1.esc.edu
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:37:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Urban Myth Group
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-20,29-38,40-51,54-57,59-60
From: willggeiger@juno.com (William G Geiger)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Aloha, WillGGeiger@juno.com
12:48 PM 7/8/97 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>>On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Patrick Barden wrote:
>>
>>> House: a living house. Can manipulate its interior walls, floors,
>>> furniture etc. Has the ability to "disappear" by shifting itself
>into
>>> another dimension. This is the character I need some help on.
>>> 2) How would you handle this effect: Anytime a person inside
>tries to
>>> exit through a door or window they are automatically transported
>back
>>> through another door or window elsewhere in the house preventing
>them from
>>> leaving.
>
>>
>"Everyone who goes into that house, never leaves."
You should read the short story, "And He Built A Crooked House," by
Robert Heinlein. This house is a tesseract, a construct with four
spatial dimensions instead of three, with most of the properties you
describe above. Picture a cube, unfolded so it is six squares in the
shape of a cross. Now put a cube on each square. When refolded, the
hypercube has six times the area of a 3D cube, and each egress is an
ingress to what appears to be another 3D cube. Since you may arrange your
floorplan any way you like, there may not be an extra cost for this.
Write me off-list if you want a diagram.
>
>>> 3) Has the ability to produce virtually anything it feels the
>people
>>> inside it needs (ie. food, clothing, other small items.) it can
>also make
>>> these items disappear at will.
>
>"Wouldn't it be great if there was a salami sandwich in the fridge?"
Most of this is simply Life Support, perhaps with some Transform thrown
in.
>
>>> 5) Are their any other effects that you think would be
>effective. The
>>> feeling I am going for is like being caught is some sort of
>nightmare house
>>> that is constantly changing and attempting to prevent the people
>inside
>from
>>> leaving. I am not really concerned with the point totals so have
>fun.
Images are good powers for what you are looking for. Bleeding walls, the
sound of a couch-and-four outside, something moving just beyond your
peripheral vision, etc.
Incidentally, all my suggestions are pretty inexpensive.
>
Aloha,
WillGGeiger@juno.com
>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:22:42 -0500
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Larian wrote:
> *No female(or male for that matter) super (Wonder Woman or Vamprella for
> example) ever pop out of there scanty costumes, or have them ride up,
> during all the various splits, tumbles, dives and rolls they go thru in an
> average fight. Katarena Witt poped out of her skating out fit on TV, and
> she was only doing a spin. what holds those outfits on, superglue?
Heh, Lucy Lawless (Xena) popped out of HER top.. and all SHE was doing
was singing the national anthem!!! Makes you wonder how her top stays
on during all of her flips and stuff on the show, huh!
Todd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
badtodd@dacmail.net
http://www.badtodd.webcabin.com
Interested in original TSR Marvel Superhero Lead miniatures?? Email
me!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 23:09:37 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: 4 color principles
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Todd Hanson wrote:
> Heh, Lucy Lawless (Xena) popped out of HER top.. and all SHE was doing
> was singing the national anthem!!! Makes you wonder how her top stays
> on during all of her flips and stuff on the show, huh!
...That's called "editing"...
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 23:21:55 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Fishy Powers and Underwater Action!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
The Nez Master wrote:
>
> Eric Burns wrote:
> >Hey, everybody! I have a two-fin... er, two-fold question to ask. Are
> >there any rules about underwater action/combat? What sorts of penalties
> >would be appropriate? And how would you counteract those penalties for an
> >aquatic hero (a la Aquaman, Submariner, etc.).
> >
(.......)
> The vastly underrated supplement Atlantis is chock full of how to handle
> underwater combat, ideas for underwater hereos/villians/powers.
> >-Eric (with water on the brain)
> > aka Turkey Volume Guessing Man
I bought 'Atlantis' for the underwater stuff and was impressed enough
that I decided to use several elements of the book's "Atlantis world
view" to actually bring Atlantis into my campaign. It has a lot of
underwater-specific rules and options (I can post a few of the main 'new
powers/abilities if'n you'd like) plus it has a lot of interesting
background and history which can very well be plundered for use
anywhere.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: Fishy Powers and Underwater Action!
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:36:50 -0400 (EDT)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> > The vastly underrated supplement Atlantis is chock full of how to handle
> > underwater combat, ideas for underwater hereos/villians/powers.
> I bought 'Atlantis' for the underwater stuff and was impressed enough
> that I decided to use several elements of the book's "Atlantis world
> view" to actually bring Atlantis into my campaign. It has a lot of
> underwater-specific rules and options (I can post a few of the main 'new
> powers/abilities if'n you'd like)
I would be grateful for anything you'd be willing to post, thanks 8^)
Mostly, I'm interested in what penalties Captain Strong-guy, the dry-land
hero, would take while fighting underwater.
-Eric
> plus it has a lot of interesting
> background and history which can very well be plundered for use
> anywhere.
>
> --
> -Capt. Spith
> Savior of Humanity
> Secular Messiah
>
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Comics Code Authority (was: 4 color principles)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:05:47 -0400 (EDT)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> Larian wrote:
>
> > *No female(or male for that matter) super (Wonder Woman or Vamprella for
> > example) ever pop out of there scanty costumes, or have them ride up,
> > during all the various splits, tumbles, dives and rolls they go thru in an
> > average fight. Katarena Witt poped out of her skating out fit on TV, and
> > she was only doing a spin. what holds those outfits on, superglue?
>
I just found a copy of the Comics Code. This is funny as all-heck, read
what it has to say about costumes:
> Costume:
>
> 1.Nudity in any form is prohibited, as is indecent or undue exposure.
> 2.Suggestive and salacious illustration or suggestive posture is
> unacceptable.
> 3.All characters shall be depicted in dress reasonably acceptable to
> society.
> 4.Females shall be drawn realistically without exaggeration of any
> physical qualities.
The complete CC is too long to post here, but if you want to take a look
at the full thing, go to http://mcgurkus.circus.com/~omni/comics/cca.html.
About 95% of the CC seems to be completely ignored in even the CC approved
comics these days (Marvel and DC are still CC approved, right?). I wonder
if this online copy is an old version.
-Eric (appoved by the comics code authority)
Comments: Authenticated sender is <korthmat@pilot.msu.edu>
From: "Matt Korth" <korthmat@cps.msu.edu>
Organization: I don't think so, Tim.
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 13:13:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Comics Code Authority (was: 4 color principles)
Priority: normal
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> > Larian wrote:
> >
> > > *No female(or male for that matter) super (Wonder Woman or Vamprella for
> > > example) ever pop out of there scanty costumes, or have them ride up,
> > > during all the various splits, tumbles, dives and rolls they go thru in an
> > > average fight. Katarena Witt poped out of her skating out fit on TV, and
> > > she was only doing a spin. what holds those outfits on, superglue?
> >
>
> I just found a copy of the Comics Code. This is funny as all-heck, read
> what it has to say about costumes:
>
> > Costume:
> >
> > 1.Nudity in any form is prohibited, as is indecent or undue exposure.
> > 2.Suggestive and salacious illustration or suggestive posture is
> > unacceptable.
> > 3.All characters shall be depicted in dress reasonably acceptable to
> > society.
> > 4.Females shall be drawn realistically without exaggeration of any
> > physical qualities.
>
> The complete CC is too long to post here, but if you want to take a look
> at the full thing, go to http://mcgurkus.circus.com/~omni/comics/cca.html.
> About 95% of the CC seems to be completely ignored in even the CC approved
> comics these days (Marvel and DC are still CC approved, right?). I wonder
> if this online copy is an old version.
>
> -Eric (appoved by the comics code authority)
Well, the page *does* say, "Standards of the Comics Code Authority for
editorial matter *as originally adopted*" (emphasis added). Meaning that
the document is probably 40+ years old, and making it virtually certain
that there have been a large number of changes since...
--M
--
korthmat@cps.msu.edu http://www.cps.msu.edu/~korthmat
*** People who send me UCE or UBE will be crucified. ***
"Held: The CDA's 'indecent transmission' and 'patently offensive display'
provisions abridge 'the freedom of speech' protected by the First
Amendment. Pp. 17-40." --Justice John Paul Stevens, US Supreme Court
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:09:46 -0700
From: Darrin Kelley <flashbak@pacbell.net>
Reply-To: flashbak@pacbell.net
CC: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Comics Code Authority (was: 4 color principles)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Matt Korth wrote:
>
> > > Larian wrote:
> > >
> > > > *No female(or male for that matter) super (Wonder Woman or Vamprella for
> > > > example) ever pop out of there scanty costumes, or have them ride up,
> > > > during all the various splits, tumbles, dives and rolls they go thru in an
> > > > average fight. Katarena Witt poped out of her skating out fit on TV, and
> > > > she was only doing a spin. what holds those outfits on, superglue?
> > >
> >
> > I just found a copy of the Comics Code. This is funny as all-heck, read
> > what it has to say about costumes:
> >
> > > Costume:
> > >
> > > 1.Nudity in any form is prohibited, as is indecent or undue exposure.
> > > 2.Suggestive and salacious illustration or suggestive posture is
> > > unacceptable.
> > > 3.All characters shall be depicted in dress reasonably acceptable to
> > > society.
> > > 4.Females shall be drawn realistically without exaggeration of any
> > > physical qualities.
> >
> > The complete CC is too long to post here, but if you want to take a look
> > at the full thing, go to http://mcgurkus.circus.com/~omni/comics/cca.html.
> > About 95% of the CC seems to be completely ignored in even the CC approved
> > comics these days (Marvel and DC are still CC approved, right?). I wonder
> > if this online copy is an old version.
> >
> > -Eric (appoved by the comics code authority)
>
> Well, the page *does* say, "Standards of the Comics Code Authority for
> editorial matter *as originally adopted*" (emphasis added). Meaning that
> the document is probably 40+ years old, and making it virtually certain
> that there have been a large number of changes since...
>
> --M
Actually, no. It hasn't been changed at all. The CCA is something
that is just plain being ignored by most comic book companies these
days. And as strange as it sounds, it was followed pretty strictly by
the mainstream comics publishers up until about '90 to '92. So, really,
it can be counted as yet another casualty of the modern age.
The CCA was established willingly by the comic book companies of its
age to avoid facing Federal regulation. Due to the oppressive of
influence of McCarthyism and the like. It was a token gesture at
self-regulation. And quite alot of interesting material was created
because of the presence of the CCA.
Much of what Jack Kirby became famous for wouldn't have seen light
if not for the presence of the CCA. It forced the comic book publishers
to look for new and different ways to entertain the audience, without
violating those rules.
What we are seeing today, now that the CCA is being ignored, is what
I believe to be a backslide. A backslide into material that does have an
audience, but whose presence is not leaving room for new and original
ideas. Vampires, werewolves, zombies, high amounts of gunplay, and
characters of dubious morality really aren't leaving that much room for
the public to get a view of much of anything else. Let alone, new and
original ideas.
I, for one, really don't see this as a good era for comics. It isn't
stagnation, but an active decline. What the industry really needs is
more new ideas and approaches and to pay less attention to what has
already been done to death.
Am I saying that superheroes should be scrapped? No. I like
superheroes. But I do think that there are plenty of approaches to the
superhero and other genres that either haven't been touched or are just
being ignored because the companies are more interested in making money
than taking a few risks.
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:47:54 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Comics Code Authority (was: 4 color principles)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 01:13 PM 7/26/97 -0400, Matt Korth wrote:
>Well, the page *does* say, "Standards of the Comics Code Authority for
>editorial matter *as originally adopted*" (emphasis added). Meaning that
>the document is probably 40+ years old, and making it virtually certain
>that there have been a large number of changes since...
>
Very minor ones.
a)You can now have anti-drug stories (not pro-drug ones)
b)You can have vampires
c)You can show the villains evil plan, as long as the crime is too
ridiculous to be duplicated (i.e, hyno rays and the like)
The CC is a great example of why even 'voluntary' codes of conduct are
inherently censorious.
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:08:33 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: Comics Code Authority (was: 4 color principles)
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 07:33 PM 7/26/97 -0400, William K Bushway wrote:
>> I, for one, really don't see this as a good era for comics. It isn't
>> stagnation, but an active decline. What the industry really needs is
>> more new ideas and approaches and to pay less attention to what has
>> already been done to death.
>
> It sounds like when you say "industry", you're really only talking
>about the Big Three. Try looking into some small-press and self-published
>titles.
Well, yes, but there is a reason why we call them the BIG three. (Of
course, I've only been aware of a big two, but ...) This would be something
like me saying that "television isn't a wasteland -- what about local access
and independent stations?" Well, maybe said stations are good in MY
zone-of-access, but you may never even see the programs I'm watching. By
the same token, the Big Guys of the comicbook business both possess the
lion's share of the industry and represent that portion accessible to the
entire market. I live in Hicksville, Redneck County, and I can still pick
up Spider-Man and/or X=Men at my local grocery store.
> That'll never change. Comic books are a business, as are almost
>all forms of entertainment. They cost money to make, and publishers
>expect a good return on their investment. Therefore, they'll continue to
>follow trends that sell well, and ignore those that don't.
>
> By the same token, we as consumers have the ability to exert
>tremendous influence on said industry. If you don't like certain books of
>genres, don't buy them. Tell your friends not to buy them either. Write
>a letter to the company in question, telling them what kind of books you'd
>like to see.
"Tremendous" is a bit of an exaggeration. Maybe if comicbook buyers
unionized, you'd have "tremendous" influence. But, say, everyone on this
mailing list together is just a drop in the proverbial bucket to your
typical comicbook company.
> It's all well and good to bemoan the state of comics today, but if
>you can't offer a solution, then you're just adding to the noise
>pollution.
ObSolution: Play roleplaying games. Your friends are probably more talented
superheroic storytellers than 90% of people in comicbooks today (and Kurt
Busiek doesn't count, since he IS -- or at least was -- a roleplayer). :]
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: ludator@207.40.36.2
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:08:36 -0500
From: ludator@softfarm.com (Bryan Berggren)
Subject: Re: Comics Code Authority (was: 4 color principles)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 10:49 AM 7/27/97 +1000, happyelf! wrote:
>okay, i urge everyone to buy thunderbolts!
Well, skipping the tall cool glass of smarmy, I have to at least second this
opinion. THUNDERBOLTS may be the best superhero comicbook in print today --
kinda depressing, since there's a strong possibility that it's less a full
title than a 12-issue limited series.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Files corrupt; absolute files corrupt absolutely. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 19:33:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Comics Code Authority (was: 4 color principles)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sat, 26 Jul 1997, Darrin Kelley wrote:
> What we are seeing today, now that the CCA is being ignored, is what
> I believe to be a backslide. A backslide into material that does have an
> audience, but whose presence is not leaving room for new and original
> ideas. Vampires, werewolves, zombies, high amounts of gunplay, and
> characters of dubious morality really aren't leaving that much room for
> the public to get a view of much of anything else. Let alone, new and
> original ideas.
Well, I'm afraid it's a cross-media affliction. Take a look at
what's popular in TV and film these days.
> I, for one, really don't see this as a good era for comics. It isn't
> stagnation, but an active decline. What the industry really needs is
> more new ideas and approaches and to pay less attention to what has
> already been done to death.
It sounds like when you say "industry", you're really only talking
about the Big Three. Try looking into some small-press and self-published
titles.
> Am I saying that superheroes should be scrapped? No. I like
> superheroes. But I do think that there are plenty of approaches to the
> superhero and other genres that either haven't been touched or are just
> being ignored because the companies are more interested in making money
> than taking a few risks.
That'll never change. Comic books are a business, as are almost
all forms of entertainment. They cost money to make, and publishers
expect a good return on their investment. Therefore, they'll continue to
follow trends that sell well, and ignore those that don't.
By the same token, we as consumers have the ability to exert
tremendous influence on said industry. If you don't like certain books of
genres, don't buy them. Tell your friends not to buy them either. Write
a letter to the company in question, telling them what kind of books you'd
like to see.
It's all well and good to bemoan the state of comics today, but if
you can't offer a solution, then you're just adding to the noise
pollution.
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 10:51 AM