Week Ending October 25, 1997
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:47:07 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
Subject: Re: What a Timeline is truely good for
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 12:26 PM 10/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Matthew Mactyre wrote:
>
>> You don't know what you are talking about here. I have the advantage of
>> looking over Shelley's shoulder when she is running the G3 games, and she
>> doesn't railroad players into any action. There are times when the players
>> need to be pointed in a certain direction to further the plot.
>
>By definition, this _is_ railroading. Whether you consider it acceptable
>or not is, of course, a matter of play style.
>
>
Precisely. railroading is to be avoided, even if you consider it
'acceptable'. This is another of those behaviours that a gm should
guard against over-using, or even useing at all. .
From: "Len Carpenter" <redlion@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: More on Powwow and Tribal.com
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 00:51:32 -0400
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> From: Tim R. Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
> To: champ-l@omg.org
> Subject: More on Powwow and Tribal.com
> Date: Friday, October 17, 1997 5:14 PM
>
> I just had the opportunity to go meandering through "A Line in the
> Sand Page". I found some references to Tribal.com and Powwow,
things I
> hadn't actually seen before.
>
> It's a lot worse than I orignailly thought. Before, I just would
> refuse to use it and hope others did the same. Now I fervrently
urge
> others to not use the product and to write or e-mail the company
> expressing outrage at the product and site.
>
> The company is *NOT* founded or owned or funded by any natives or
> native tribes. In fact, it is a sub-corporation of McAfee, the
virus
> people. (Whose products I from this time refuse to use.) I didn't
> explore the whole thing before, but it seems to be a great joke to
McAfee.
> Check out the editorial at URL
>
> http://indy4.fdl.cc.mn.us/~isk/editorial.html
>
> Here is a link to an explination on how the page is quite racist
> (yes, I mean that term now) and offensive to native american
cultures.
> There is also some email back and forth from the author to McAfee
where he
> trates the whole subject as a farce.
>
> I'm quite angry after reading it right now, but I urge others to
> check out the editorial. Its a little more justification for my
earlier
> views than I previously provided.
>
>
> -Tim Gilberg
>
Being part Cherokee, I thought it important to check out these
various websites, including the URL
Tim Gilberg lists above, produced by Paula Giese. I agree completely
with Tim Gilberg's views.
Tribal.com is a sham and a tax dodge that would make many hardworking
con artists squirm with
unease. John McAfee's condescending and abusive attitude toward
Paula Giese, who has the
courage and common sense to point out the "emporor has no clothes,"
makes John McAfee a lousy
businessman in addition to being the patron of racist operation.
Smart bigots at least have the sense
to supress their racist attitudes when dealing with potential
customers.
That Tribal Voice, supposedly an educational website, has also
provided links to sites devoted to
tasteless adult material as examples of "Indian humor" is also
disturbing. I'm no prude or advocate of
censorship, but I do think there are things on the Web kids should
not be readily guided toward.
This is one consumer that McAfee Associates has alienated forever.
There are several posters to this mailing list who owe Tim Gilberg an
apology.
Len Carpenter
redlion@early.com
X-Sender: scm@mail.aci.net
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 00:28:34 -0700
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <shelley@mactyre.net>
Subject: Re: What a Timeline is truly good for
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 12:26 PM 10/18/97 -0300, Trevor Barrie wrote:
>On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Matthew Mactyre wrote:
>
>> You don't know what you are talking about here. I have the advantage of
>> looking over Shelley's shoulder when she is running the G3 games, and she
>> doesn't railroad players into any action. There are times when the
players
>> need to be pointed in a certain direction to further the plot.
>
>By definition, this _is_ railroading. Whether you consider it acceptable
>or not is, of course, a matter of play style.
This is another case of just not understanding how to run a PBEM game, I
think, or at least not doing so according to any PBEM I've seen, run, or
played in. I'd be more than willing to create a lurker list for a turn or
two if it would help clear things up.
That being said -- I don't think there's a GM alive who hasn't had to help
out their players with an extra clue or two when they aren't picking up on
things -- if you're running a *storyline* you have a plot, by definition.
If you're a competent GM, then you can roll with the changes. If you're
not, then you can't. Guiding a plot isn't the same thing as beating your
players over the head with it.
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
www.mactyre.net
Your children will see the stars.
--Robert A. Heinlein
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 00:57:08 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Reply-To: rook@infinex.com
Subject: Railroading (Was Re: What a Timeline is truly good for)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> >
> >> You don't know what you are talking about here. I have the advantage of
> >> looking over Shelley's shoulder when she is running the G3 games, and she
> >> doesn't railroad players into any action. There are times when the
> players
> >> need to be pointed in a certain direction to further the plot.
> >
> >By definition, this _is_ railroading. Whether you consider it acceptable
> >or not is, of course, a matter of play style.
>
> This is another case of just not understanding how to run a PBEM game, I
> think, or at least not doing so according to any PBEM I've seen, run, or
> played in. I'd be more than willing to create a lurker list for a turn or
> two if it would help clear things up.
I'm a player in several PBeM games right now by the way.
Only one of them railroads me to any degree. That's also the one that moves
the slowest. And in that one it's a case of a character conception that got it's
definition mixed between me and the GM (we had diferent ideas about what I was
playing, and together failed to sync our ideas well enough ahead of time).
In none of the games I play do my turns or actions get rewritten for me or
am I told
I have to do something or another. Even in the above plot the railroading stops
at:
"Well before you can do that this interupts you:"
In the best run game I'm in, A WW:Mage game (A system I haven't seen a
rulebook for since
1990, but the GM is so good I could care less), we just go with it. The GM
maintinas the games
flow by having two NPC's in the group. These NPC's mere;y ask questions when we
get stalled,
or answer our questions when we have them and when they could reasonably know
the answer.
I've yet to have a turn rewritten, or to have it happen to any other player.
And there are a few
players in there who'se writing styles definatly clash. But we're given the
freedom to go with it.
If I didn't know from the GM telling me, I'd almost think there wasn't one.
Save for the fact that
the guy who 'plays the werewolf' also is the one who describes the scenes and
writes turns for the
random people we meet.
I'd drop all my champs games in a heartbeat if I had to for that game. And I
don't even like
Storyteller that much. But I like that GM.
--
Rook
Also known as Arcady on #herochat #gurps and #Fuzionchat in DALnet IRC
herochat is a channel for discusion of the Hero system
Fuzionchat is for dicussion of Fuzion (C:NM, BGC, et all)
Gurps is for discussion of the GURPS RolePlaying Game
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Also, check out the new version of Villians & Vigilantes at
http://illusionmachines.com/personal/jeff/vandv.html
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:42:05 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Black Hole
X-VMS-To: IN%"Champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
How would you simulate the effects of a black hole?
What about a character whose Sf/x are
powers are those which simulate
the forces and Sf/x of a black hole. (I know this is cosmicly powerful,
but humor a guy, won't ya?)
-Jason
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Black Hole
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 19 Oct 1997 11:43:46 -0400
Lines: 35
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "AAM" == ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu> writes:
AAM> How would you simulate the effects of a black hole?
If you get within a certain distance, the event horizon, you are drawn into
the point singularity at the heart and cease to exist.
Power: Extradimensional Movement, Area of Effect Radius (big radius),
Usable Against Others, No Normal Defense: having no mass (insubstantial,
such as with some forms of Desolidification). Continuous is an option.
Note that radiant energy *does* have mass, so Desolidification SFX based on
radiant energy forms does not qualify as a defense. In other words, there
really is no defense against a real black hole.
"Here, have a point singularity." <Kachunk!> "Have two, they're small."
<Kachunk!>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNEomaJ6VRH7BJMxHAQHMKwQAshKI/GK+MoqydJwAcQcwaecB1Yb1uSse
GPoeG+Y+Okg8+yK42S5OA7WXGwrT5wEOOabiZPf+UgGSPds9711pgk1ysMprmynS
ESMHUft3xYIrgFywke3aMZn8Je64IcVgiX/16nE8LSimaL2thJ+K5H1boH2SRtf6
u3xvGrHCAqY=
=/Ez5
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:48:24 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Multiple Personality syndrome
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
How would you design a character with Multiple Personalities?
We're talking 4 or five seperate, distinct personalities who would
have certains skills (or even powers) unique to each. I'm concearned,
because I don't feel Psychological Limitation defines each well enough.
Some possibilities I've thought of would be 'Accidental Change' or
'Multiform: Only effects mental statistics & personality."
...and if each has it's own Disadvantages.
Crazy for being so lonely,
Jason Sullivan
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:59:33 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Multiple Personality syndrome
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> How would you design a character with Multiple Personalities?
>We're talking 4 or five seperate, distinct personalities who would
>have certains skills (or even powers) unique to each. I'm concearned,
>because I don't feel Psychological Limitation defines each well enough.
>Some possibilities I've thought of would be 'Accidental Change' or
>'Multiform: Only effects mental statistics & personality."
> ...and if each has it's own Disadvantages.
I may be alone on this one, but I'd build the base character, then give him
4 'Followers', which are in fact Artificial Intelligences that can 'take
over' the 'main' personality thanks to Accidental Changes, or maybe even
opposed EGO Rolls (the 'base' personality should probably have the best EGO
roll to keep this under control). The nice thing about AIs is that you only
have to buy DEX, INT, EGO and SPD, plus skills - they aren't that expensive.
50 points each + Disads, x4 Followers, that's 20 points total for a LOT of
variety.
Each AI would have its own Psych.Lims, as well as 'Accidental Change', and
perhaps psychosomatic vulnerabilities/susceptibilities, berserks,
dependancies, etc.
I'd also recommend a Triggered STUN/END Aid when a new personality 'takes
over', mainly to allow the 'main' personality to be knocked out, and one of
the subordinates takes charge.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Guns-ablazin', fu-fightin', spell-chuckin', rubber-monster-stompin' ACTION!"
-John comments on Feng Shui
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
X-Sender: lizard@dnai.com
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 12:25:30 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Black Hole
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
At 10:42 AM 10/19/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> How would you simulate the effects of a black hole?
> What about a character whose Sf/x are
>
>
>
>
> powers are those which simulate
>the forces and Sf/x of a black hole. (I know this is cosmicly
powerful,
>but humor a guy, won't ya?)
A lot of TK, probably with the limit ("Only to pull things towards
me"), density increase (duh), darkness w/no range (possibly bought
with 'explosion', so that it gets darker the closer you get to him).
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBNEpeqTKf8mIpTvjWEQKyDQCg5l4kJE9A2HfkahVMJ/0t3/AfsREAoJpQ
OBxjzO7y9A0q2skLPtKnWBB0
=EYCS
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Black Hole
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 12:55:30 -0700
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
From: On Sunday, October 19, 1997 8:08 AM, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> How would you simulate the effects of a black hole?
> What about a character whose Sf/x are
> powers are those which simulate
>the forces and Sf/x of a black hole. (I know this is cosmicly
powerful,
>but humor a guy, won't ya?)
Telekinesis, only to attract people towards self.
EB, to simulate the energy burst released by rotating black holes as
they suck in matter.
A massively destructive NND 0 Range HKA or BODY Drain, to simulate
objects being sucked into the event horizon, never to escape.
Massive defenses, perhaps based upon Desolidification, to show that
anything that hits him is harmlessly sucked in, doing no damage.
Filksinger
X-Sender: scm@mail.aci.net
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:12:07 -0700
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <shelley@mactyre.net>
Subject: Question about Links Categories
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Greetings, all --
My Champions links page (http://www.mactyre.net/scm/links.html) is becoming
unwieldy -- at last count I had 136 links, and they're listed under a
couple of categories, like PBEM games, organizations, campaign worlds, and
the like. I've had a bunch of requests for me to annotate the dang thing,
but I'm not really sure how I should do it. Should I keep the categories
and maybe include a few comments, should I alphabetize and include a few
comments, should I make value judgements as to the merit of sites, rank
them, what? Obviously there are sites which are much more useful than
others, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with judging the quality of
others' work.
The links page is the most commonly accessed page, receiving around a
hundred hits a day, and I'd wager that members of this list are among those
using it. So what would you all like to see? Should I leave it alone?
Annotate it? Rank it? If I do choose to annotate it, should I come up with
a key (as I believe George Ruban suggested about a year ago), and use that
to say which sites have backgrounds or character sheets or art in a
shorthand form?
Thanks in advance,
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
www.mactyre.net
Your children will see the stars.
--Robert A. Heinlein
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:57:50 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Subject: Secret ID/OIHID against Chars
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
A character was created mostly with only in hero ID disvantages. I
would like some ideas of how these could be used against him, without
isolating him from the rest of the group, making everyone participate in a
single adventure where he would suffer from the OIHID disvantage. I've
being thinking that as noone knows his secret ID, nothing would happen to
him in that ID, as he isn't an important person in it. (he is a priest,
but i guess a more general response might be better)
And if what happened was just near him, he could just walk out,
change to hero id, and would not suffer much from the hero id. The only
think i have thought that does not let that happen was imprisonment, what
is not only very tough, but also kind of nosense with an unimportant
person.
Does anyone have any ideas to offer ?
Thanks.
PS.: Yes, me and the group are kind of newbie in this game.
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Secret ID/OIHID against Chars
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:14:33 -0700
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sunday, October 19, 1997 1:23 PM, Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria
wrote:
> A character was created mostly with only in hero ID disvantages. I
>would like some ideas of how these could be used against him, without
>isolating him from the rest of the group, making everyone participate
in a
>single adventure where he would suffer from the OIHID disvantage.
<snip>
>The only
>think i have thought that does not let that happen was imprisonment,
what
>is not only very tough, but also kind of nosense with an unimportant
>person.
> Does anyone have any ideas to offer ?
Imprisonment is perfect. He is imprisoned in a bank, along with 12
other hostages. He can't get out of sight, and he has his captors
_and_ the other prisoners to think about when it comes to his Secret
ID.
Another is entrapment of some other sort. Trap him in some disaster
with other people, and make certain he can't get away from them in a
convincing manner.
Another possibility is entrap him by a crowd. Try finding a truly
private place at Disneyland, for example. Cameras saw you go in, and
even in a bathroom stall, other people saw you go in and would see you
come out. If they refuse to leave quickly, you are stuck.
Additionally, he could simply be in the middle of a big crowd, and his
problem could be nothing worse than getting out of a panicked crowd
long enough to change.
Put a bug on him when he is a hero. Let the villains track him down as
the priest. Now, let him convince them he has no powers. He doesn't,
so unlike other people with secret IDs, he cannot be caught out by
tests for powers. However, the tests for powers could be inconvenient
or even fatal if he doesn't change. He cannot change into the hero and
go after them even if he gets away, as they are sure to think they
were right, even if they were wrong. Since they are right, he can't
even stand next to himself to prove he is two people.
This should get you started.
Filksinger
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 97 22:46:18
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Black Hole
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 21
On Sun, 19 Oct 1997 12:55:30 -0700, Filksinger wrote:
>From: On Sunday, October 19, 1997 8:08 AM, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>
>
>> How would you simulate the effects of a black hole?
>> What about a character whose Sf/x are
>> powers are those which simulate
>>the forces and Sf/x of a black hole. (I know this is cosmicly
>powerful,
>>but humor a guy, won't ya?)
>
>
>Telekinesis, only to attract people towards self.
>EB, to simulate the energy burst released by rotating black holes as
>they suck in matter.
>A massively destructive NND 0 Range HKA or BODY Drain, to simulate
>objects being sucked into the event horizon, never to escape.
>Massive defenses, perhaps based upon Desolidification, to show that
>anything that hits him is harmlessly sucked in, doing no damage.
Don't forget Absorbtion with a long decay time.
X-Sender: wbandsis@mail.westco.net
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:58:44 -0400
From: "C. Badger" <wbandsis@westco.net>
Subject: Re: Question about Links Categories
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 13:12 10/19/97 -0700, Shelley Chrystal Mactyre wrote:
>The links page is the most commonly accessed page, receiving around a
>hundred hits a day, and I'd wager that members of this list are among those
>using it. So what would you all like to see? Should I leave it alone?
>Annotate it? Rank it? If I do choose to annotate it, should I come up with
>a key (as I believe George Ruban suggested about a year ago), and use that
>to say which sites have backgrounds or character sheets or art in a
>shorthand form?
Annottate it.
For instance
By genre Pulp, modern, sci-fi(futuristic), heroic, fantasy
By type campaign world, characters, package deals, weapons ect.
Nothing else might let the owner give a short paragraph review of what all
the site has.,....
-----
C. Badger
My Feet hurt and I've forgotten how to dance.
Londo
Babylon 5
X-Sender: wbandsis@mail.westco.net
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:58:46 -0400
From: "C. Badger" <wbandsis@westco.net>
Subject: Re: Secret ID/OIHID against Chars
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 18:57 10/19/97 -0200, Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria wrote:
> And if what happened was just near him, he could just walk out,
>change to hero id, and would not suffer much from the hero id. The only
>think i have thought that does not let that happen was imprisonment, what
>is not only very tough, but also kind of nosense with an unimportant
>person.
> Does anyone have any ideas to offer ?
> Thanks.
Your welcome
Well If a group performed a robbery and in getting away their vehicle broke
down and they entered the church during a service and held everyone hostage.
He would now have the problem of being in his secret id, need to use his
powers but not being able to change without letting others know. The rest
of the players would then be in on trying to rescue the hostages without
getting anyone inside killed.
-----
C. Badger
My Feet hurt and I've forgotten how to dance.
Londo
Babylon 5
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 97 23:00:41
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Secret ID/OIHID against Chars
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 22
On Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:57:50 -0200 (EDT), Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de
Faria wrote:
> A character was created mostly with only in hero ID disvantages. I
>would like some ideas of how these could be used against him, without
>isolating him from the rest of the group, making everyone participate in a
>single adventure where he would suffer from the OIHID disvantage. I've
>being thinking that as noone knows his secret ID, nothing would happen to
>him in that ID, as he isn't an important person in it. (he is a priest,
>but i guess a more general response might be better)
> And if what happened was just near him, he could just walk out,
>change to hero id, and would not suffer much from the hero id. The only
>think i have thought that does not let that happen was imprisonment, what
>is not only very tough, but also kind of nosense with an unimportant
>person.
> Does anyone have any ideas to offer ?
> Thanks.
>
>PS.: Yes, me and the group are kind of newbie in this game.
>
What a wonderful secret ID! But you seem to be thinking purely along
combat lines; how about some role-playing?
Do the other characters know he's a priest? If not, maybe you could
have one of them seek spiritual guidance. Or perhaps a supervillian (a
Hunted, perchance?) who wants to go straight. Or is it because the
supervillian thinks he's found out the Hero's Secret ID? How does the
priest use knowledge gained in confidence without breaking his
religious vows?
How about a visit from the Pope/Chief Rabbi/whatever? The PC is in the
middle of a crowd of fellow priests in a televised service when
disaster strikes and super-powered terrorists hold the Pope and
congregation to ransom, live on TV!
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 17:40:35 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Sci-Fi Con
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Well, in a few more weeks, I will be attending Orycon 19 and was
wonsering if there were ano other Convention goers who would be
attending. It is always interesting to actually meet people I have
gotten to "know" online.
OTOH if anybody wants info on the thing, leave a note, and I'll find
the URL of their web page which (mostly) has all the information one
should need....
-Capt. Spith
--
Everything you know is wrong, black is white, up is down and short is
long
And everything you used to think was just so important doesn't matter
Everything you know is wrong, just forget the words and sing along
All you need to understand is everything you know is wrong
-'Wierd Al'
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:22:55 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: More on Powwow and Tribal.com
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 1
Len Carpenter wrote:
>
> > From: Tim R. Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
> >
> > The company is *NOT* founded or owned or funded by any natives
> or
> > native tribes. In fact, it is a sub-corporation of McAfee, the
> virus
> > people. (Whose products I from this time refuse to use.) I didn't
> > explore the whole thing before, but it seems to be a great joke to
> McAfee.
> > Check out the editorial at URL
> >
> > http://indy4.fdl.cc.mn.us/~isk/editorial.html
> >
> > Here is a link to an explination on how the page is quite
> racist
> > (yes, I mean that term now) and offensive to native american
> cultures.
> > There is also some email back and forth from the author to McAfee
> where he
> > trates the whole subject as a farce.
I'd like to point out that Tribal is not a sub-corporation of McAfee
Associates. While John McAfee may have some say at Tribal, he hasn't
been at McAfee Associates for at least two years.
-Mark Lemming
X-Sender: nolan@pop.erols.com
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 22:34:01 -0400
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@pop.erols.com>
Subject: Fantasy Hero Cantrip Question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 5
I run a Fantasy Hero game. All sorcerers in the game have a basic spell
called "Cantrip". Forget the mechanics, they're unimportant to the
question. The intention of the spell is to allow a wide variety of basic
abilities matching the special effects of the particular school of sorcery.
Pyromancers can start fires, dry clothes, make their eyes blaze with
light, etc. All minor, non-combat effects.
A player asked me what that would do for his diviner, a school with
detection and divination abilities. Obviously, it might be able to tell
him where he left the keys to his camel, but what practical usage might
such a spell have for a diviner? Could it allow him to know people's names
when he met them? Could it predict the results of a hand of poker? On
sheer game balance terms, I'd be for the former and against the latter.
What else can you think of?
Scott
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 22:53:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Question about Links Categories
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, Shelley Chrystal Mactyre wrote:
> Greetings, all --
>
> My Champions links page (http://www.mactyre.net/scm/links.html) is becoming
> unwieldy -- at last count I had 136 links, and they're listed under a
> couple of categories, like PBEM games, organizations, campaign worlds, and
> the like. I've had a bunch of requests for me to annotate the dang thing,
> but I'm not really sure how I should do it. Should I keep the categories
> and maybe include a few comments, should I alphabetize and include a few
> comments, should I make value judgements as to the merit of sites, rank
> them, what? Obviously there are sites which are much more useful than
> others, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with judging the quality of
> others' work.
Annotation would be nice. You might try marking sites that seem to be
upadted regularly or have a wide variety (or a lot of in depth) material.
Having the site creatires write a few commetns could be nice. Having a
short list of termas aofter each link (like character sheets, gadgets,
worldbooks etc) could be nice as well as general content (4 color, Dark
Champions, fantasy, pulp, SF, anime).
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filksinger@geocities.com>
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: More on Powwow and Tribal.com
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:21:30 -0700
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 4
On Sunday, October 19, 1997 7:52 PM, Mark Lemming wrote:
>
>I'd like to point out that Tribal is not a sub-corporation of McAfee
>Associates. While John McAfee may have some say at Tribal, he hasn't
>been at McAfee Associates for at least two years.
>
Thanks for the reminder. John McAfee may be partly responsible for
what is happening at Tribal, but McAfee software shouldn't be blamed
because of that.
OTOH, if they do own interest in Tribal, then handle that as you will.
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi Con
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:24:27 -0700
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 3
On Sunday, October 19, 1997 6:01 PM, Captain Spith
>Well, in a few more weeks, I will be attending Orycon 19 and was
>wonsering if there were ano other Convention goers who would be
>attending. It is always interesting to actually meet people I have
>gotten to "know" online.
I live in Seattle, and would like to make it to Orycon, but probably
won't. I haven't for years, because of a con just north of Seattle at
the end of October every year, but they just quit, so maybe I can make
it.
OTOH, my finances are shot. I doubt it, but I'll let you know.
> OTOH if anybody wants info on the thing, leave a note, and I'll
find
>the URL of their web page which (mostly) has all the information one
>should need....
>
Sounds good. I undoubtedly have it only a few clicks away from one of
my bookmarks, but that will be easier.
Filksinger
From: Firelynx16@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 00:11:36 -0400 (EDT)
cc: hero-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Multiple Personality syndrome
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 6
In a message dated 97-10-19 10:52:35 EDT, you write:
<< How would you design a character with Multiple Personalities?
We're talking 4 or five seperate, distinct personalities who would
have certains skills (or even powers) unique to each. I'm concearned,
because I don't feel Psychological Limitation defines each well enough.
Some possibilities I've thought of would be 'Accidental Change' or
'Multiform: Only effects mental statistics & personality."
...and if each has it's own Disadvantages.
Crazy for being so lonely,
Jason Sullivan
>>
I have an NPC called Discordia who has several personalities, some super,
some not, all bought as Multiforms: No Conscious Control. In her case, some
of the personalities come with powers that change her outward appearance.
The NCC allows for the control to be governed by the GM based on the
situations at hand instead of a dice roll.
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:32:56 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Nonstandard Deviations
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 11
Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> At 11:43 PM 10/13/97 -0500, Vox Ludator! wrote:
> >If you read the section on Everyman skills, they seem to fall into two
> >groups: "shadow" skills that represent 'default use' skills (like Deduction
> >or Climbing), and 'freebie' abilities (the AK, PS, and Language) which seem
> >to be "real" points in the same sense as the 10s-in=all-CHAR. Therefore,
> >it's possible this wasn't a deviation, but another of those hidden
> >feature-not-a-bug bits in the HERO rules.
>
> That would be my assumption, except that this is the only book in which
> I've noticed this being done.
I am confused as to why this is even an issue. HSR p. 19, "Everyman
Skills" reads in part:
All characters start with some ability in a few Skills, which
reflects the fact that everybody knows how to do these things
to some extent. * * * These Skills may be purchased and
improved just like any other Skills. In this case the full
cost must be paid - the Everyman familiarity does not reduce
the cost.
All characters begin with 4 Character Points in their native
language; they will be literate if most members of the society
are. Characters also have 1 Character Point (that is,
Familiarity) in Home Area Knowledge, and 1 Character Point
in an appropriate Professional Skill. These should be noted
on the Character Sheet, since they can be improved like normal
Skills. These Skills are given free, so the cost shouldn't be
added in to the character's cost total.
This seems to be explicit and unequivocal: if you want 5 points
(scholarly knowledge, or imitate dialects, or literacy if nonstandard) in
your native language, it costs one point. If you want AK: Home or
PS: Primary Profession at 11-, it will cost one point, not two.
Unfortunately, *every* sample character on pp. 130-134 violates this
rule. Go figure.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 23:27:25 -0700
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi Con
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 7
Filksinger wrote:
<....>
> > OTOH if anybody wants info on the thing, leave a note, and I'll
> find
> >the URL of their web page which (mostly) has all the information one
> >should need....
> >
> Sounds good. I undoubtedly have it only a few clicks away from one of
> my bookmarks, but that will be easier.
The address of the Orycon 19 Home Page is:
http://www.teleport.com/~osfci/orycon19/index.html
For those interested, my wife is running the Art Show and has her own
page for that (and her own personal stuff) @
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5486/artshow.html
Memberships are now up to $45, as they will be at the door. I look
forward to potentially seeing anybody who decides to/is able to go. I
will be spending a good amount of time helping out at the Art Show,
hanging with the DJ at the dance(s), and maybe even gaming. My Badge
name will be, of course:
-Capt. Spith
--
Everything you know is wrong, black is white, up is down and short is
long
And everything you used to think was just so important doesn't matter
Everything you know is wrong, just forget the words and sing along
All you need to understand is everything you know is wrong
-'Wierd Al'
X-Sender: nezmaster@mail.ntr.net
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 02:50:26 -0400
champ-l@omg.org
From: The Nez Master <nezmaster@ntr.net>
Subject: Re: Secret ID/OIHID against Chars
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
At 06:57 PM 10/19/97 -0200, Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria wrote:
> A character was created mostly with only in hero ID disvantages. I
>would like some ideas of how these could be used against him, without
>isolating him from the rest of the group, making everyone participate in a
>single adventure where he would suffer from the OIHID disvantage. I've
>being thinking that as noone knows his secret ID, nothing would happen to
>him in that ID, as he isn't an important person in it.
Ask the player, hey you've got this limitation here. In what game ways do
you think it's limiting. Maybe the player will have some ideas. If neither
of you get any, it's not a limitation, 0 points.
(he is a priest,
>but i guess a more general response might be better)
> And if what happened was just near him, he could just walk out,
>change to hero id, and would not suffer much from the hero id.
Ick. Dozens of reasons this can't happen. Other people watching, police
lines keeping crowds under control, being some part of the focus of
attention, beingin a swarmed crowd (ever try to leave a crowded event
quickly, especially if panic is in the air), or just plain ol needing to be
there.
> The only
>think i have thought that does not let that happen was imprisonment, what
>is not only very tough, but also kind of nosense with an unimportant
>person.
1> Just as a mood effect, stress time. Make him play out the angst of not
having time to devote to people, because he is living two lives. Work not
getting done, just remind him while he's fighting Dr Destroyer that he has
an appointment in 30 minutes with some one for an interview (or in his
case, a counseling, a membership drive, an appearance, a wedding,)
2> Put in situations when he is busy elsewhere when he gets a phone call
from the group. He will have to face making himself look bad in front of
some paritionaers by skipping out on something, or letting Mechanon destroy
humanity. You think villians never attack on Sunday morning.
3> He see's people he personally knows involved in something. He's with a
freind in his id, when he see's some villian attack. The friend or
aquaintence is of course noblein heart, and will not let his preist freind
be endagnered, no way is he getting out of sight.
4>During a time when lots of people are focused on him, soemthing intense
happens. The multitudes look to their freind and leader for focus and
leadership. "Help us decide what to do" would be difficult to meet with
running away changing ids.
Some of these may feel like your taking the pc out of part of the aciton.
You are, that's the nature of the thing. Of course, most of these are plain
ol secret id stuff, but that will bring in the OHID stuff by it's very
nature. (especially for defenses and movement powers.)
Now, ohid with public id is tougher, and some would argue not much of a
limitation. I would say if he also had instant change, it's not really a
limitaiotn at all. Without instant change, it can be really bad. Since
everyone knows who he did (or with no id, can find out), he's a target, and
soonthe villians will figure out 'hit him hard and fast, and he can't change.
> Does anyone have any ideas to offer ?
> Thanks.
>
>PS.: Yes, me and the group are kind of newbie in this game.
>
>
-------------------------Nez Master--------------------
Second founder of the backwards philosophy
http://www.ntr.net/~nezmaster
Nothing is certain
_______________________________________________________
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 97 10:03:42 GMT
X-Sender: smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk
From: smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk (Steve McGinness)
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Cantrip Question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 9
At 10:34 PM 19/10/97 -0400, Scott Nolan wrote:
>A player asked me what that would do for his diviner, a school with
>detection and divination abilities. Obviously, it might be able to tell
>him where he left the keys to his camel, but what practical usage might
>such a spell have for a diviner? Could it allow him to know people's names
>when he met them? Could it predict the results of a hand of poker? On
>sheer game balance terms, I'd be for the former and against the latter.
>
>What else can you think of?
>
>Scott
It depends, there are all kinds of things that would be useful, but it's
difficult to see what would be game imbalancing. I'm just going to give my
head free rein and you can sort them out.
....."Oh! and I think I might just need this!"
an ability to have something to hand when required
....."The chemists shop should be just round the corner"
an ability to know where his way around even unfamiliar towns
....."I _knew_ you were going to say that!"
a constant feeling of deja vu!
......"I wouldn't do that if I were you"
_knows_ the local by-laws, aware of laws commonly known
......."actually it's pronounced "Mill-guy" not Milngavie!"
knows how the locals say something rather than the obvious way
......."Come in!!" knock knock
aware of someone about to enter his domicile
Stephen
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:44:29 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Nonstandard Deviations
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 24
Robert A. West wrote:
>Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> At 11:43 PM 10/13/97 -0500, Vox Ludator! wrote:
>> >If you read the section on Everyman skills, they seem to fall into two
>> >groups: "shadow" skills that represent 'default use' skills (like Deduction
>> >or Climbing), and 'freebie' abilities (the AK, PS, and Language) which seem
>> >to be "real" points in the same sense as the 10s-in=all-CHAR. Therefore,
>> >it's possible this wasn't a deviation, but another of those hidden
>> >feature-not-a-bug bits in the HERO rules.
>>
>> That would be my assumption, except that this is the only book in which
>> I've noticed this being done.
>
>I am confused as to why this is even an issue. HSR p. 19, "Everyman
>Skills" reads in part:
>
> All characters start with some ability in a few Skills, which
> reflects the fact that everybody knows how to do these things
> to some extent. * * * These Skills may be purchased and
> improved just like any other Skills. In this case the full
> cost must be paid - the Everyman familiarity does not reduce
> the cost.
>
> All characters begin with 4 Character Points in their native
> language; they will be literate if most members of the society
> are. Characters also have 1 Character Point (that is,
> Familiarity) in Home Area Knowledge, and 1 Character Point
> in an appropriate Professional Skill. These should be noted
> on the Character Sheet, since they can be improved like normal
> Skills. These Skills are given free, so the cost shouldn't be
> added in to the character's cost total.
>
>This seems to be explicit and unequivocal: if you want 5 points
>(scholarly knowledge, or imitate dialects, or literacy if nonstandard) in
>your native language, it costs one point. If you want AK: Home or
>PS: Primary Profession at 11-, it will cost one point, not two.
>Unfortunately, *every* sample character on pp. 130-134 violates this
>rule. Go figure.
>
I guess you didn't look at the end of the first paragraph that you quoted.
It clearly states that "the Everyman familiarity doesn't reduce the cost."
Yes, it could be argued that the second paragraph seems like it may
contradict this, and so do the characters in Champions of the North (or at
least that's what someone said). *This* is why the discussion is here.
I personally don't allow the Everyman skills to reduce the costs of buying
them up, and I think I'm correct in this. Even if I'm not, it winds up
being "I'm correct IMC." But I have let characters (mostly NPCs, whom some
argue don't necessarily need to be *point* balanced) to get a PS: A at 11-
for 2 points, and PS: B at 8- for 0 points (reflecting the everyman skills).
And that's probaby a work-around to the rules, too.
- Jerry
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Cantrip Question
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 04:27:27 -0700
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOle: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 12
Sunday, October 19, 1997 9:01 PM, Scott Nolan wrote:
>I run a Fantasy Hero game. All sorcerers in the game have a basic
spell
>called "Cantrip". Forget the mechanics, they're unimportant to the
>question. The intention of the spell is to allow a wide variety of
basic
>abilities matching the special effects of the particular school of
sorcery.
> Pyromancers can start fires, dry clothes, make their eyes blaze with
>light, etc. All minor, non-combat effects.
>
>A player asked me what that would do for his diviner, a school with
>detection and divination abilities. Obviously, it might be able to
tell
>him where he left the keys to his camel, but what practical usage
might
>such a spell have for a diviner? Could it allow him to know people's
names
>when he met them? Could it predict the results of a hand of poker?
On
>sheer game balance terms, I'd be for the former and against the
latter.
>
>What else can you think of?
>
Some people might have a Fate written upon them so boldly that
diviners can see it automatically. ("Aaaiiieee!!! I see your Doom
written upon your face! Since before Time began, your fate has been
decided!") You might know more than a person's name, such as what they
wish to do or what happened to them earlier today. Sometimes they
might get no more than, "That one's purpose is so strong that I know
not what it is." This vagueness will help preserve game balance. Other
possibilities might be to know minor things in general, without a
reason for knowing them. ("We're going to freeze out here!" "No, my
friend. There is a fire and warmth waiting for us just over this
hill.") In this case, Danger Sense might be desirable as a adjunct to
the cantrip. ("How was I to know that the fire and warmth were
cannibals?")
Filksinger
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:47:04 -0400
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: Fantasy Hero Cantrip Question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 13
> A player asked me what that would do for his diviner, a school with
> detection and divination abilities. Obviously, it might be able to tell
> him where he left the keys to his camel, but what practical usage might
> such a spell have for a diviner? Could it allow him to know people's names
> when he met them? Could it predict the results of a hand of poker? On
> sheer game balance terms, I'd be for the former and against the latter.
Your calls sound good; other ideas:
See around corners without poking your head around;
Low-resolution, nonspecific detect magic (only works on STRONG magic, vague as
to type and exact location);
Which way the guard is going to turn;
One card in a hand of poker (maybe :-), and;
Which other characters are PCs. :-)
Geoff Speare
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:51:00 -0400
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: Black Hole
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 14
> How would you simulate the effects of a black hole?
Flight, Usable Against Others, AOE. (SFX is gravity; anything which stops
gravity stops the UAO.)
Big Mucking Killing Attack for the EVent Horizon, plus Flash, etc.
Extra dimensional travel. :-)
For a character, I'd probably replace the Flight with TK only because the
Flight gets abusive.
I actually had a brick with AOE TK, only to draw people into him, called
Undertow. Along with his weather-power gal-friend Azimuth they formed Horizon
(where the sky and sea meet), a two-person NPC hero team.
Geoff Speare
From: Brian Wong <rook@sanfran.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Cantrip Question
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:17:05 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 18
>
> >All sorcerers in the game have a basic spell
> >question. The intention of the spell is to allow a wide variety of
> >abilities matching the special effects of the particular school of
> >
> >A player asked me what that would do for his diviner, a school with
> >detection and divination abilities. Obviously, it might be able to
> tell
> >him where he left the keys to his camel, but what practical usage
> might
> >such a spell have for a diviner? Could it allow him to know people's
> >
> >What else can you think of?
>
> Some people might have a Fate written upon them so boldly that
> diviners can see it automatically. ("Aaaiiieee!!! I see your Doom
> written upon your face! Since before Time began, your fate has been
> decided!") You might know more than a person's name, such as what they
> reason for knowing them. ("We're going to freeze out here!" "No, my
> friend. There is a fire and warmth waiting for us just over this
> hill.") In this case, Danger Sense might be desirable as a adjunct to
> the cantrip. ("How was I to know that the fire and warmth were
> cannibals?")
>
My mother reads Tarot and has for some years. She claims she can get
a general feel for people now pretty much right as they come her, before the
cards are even dealt (it's not her occupation btw, she's proffessionally a
college teacher).
So seeing the fate thing is not a bad idea. Other things would be
like the deja vu concept, or getting vague feelings and impressions about
everything you encounter.
The fire and warmth over the next hill might be too detailed. But
saying "I feel it would benifit us to continue up ahead" might be good.
Or even "The road ahead has rewards and can help with our current delima, but
I send it involve some diffulculty to achieve. Let me cast some magics to
fully understand this."
A character who'se day is going to be filled with the promise of
adventure might awake feeling "Something grand will happen today, be
prepared for great change." But not know why or how until a full divination
is cast.
Essentially, just give them automatic divinations of a very vague
and minor nature.
Where a true spell might say the villiage is about to be visited
by Dwarven Traders seeking help in their quest; the auto-divin would just say
"somone is coming bearing tidings of adventure".
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Fw: Multiple Personality syndrome
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 18:27:58 +0100
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 45
-----Original Message-----
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
To: champ-l@omg.org <champ-l@omg.org>
Date: 19 October 1997 04:53
Subject: Multiple Personality syndrome
> How would you design a character with Multiple Personalities?
>We're talking 4 or five seperate, distinct personalities who would
>have certains skills (or even powers) unique to each. I'm concearned,
>because I don't feel Psychological Limitation defines each well enough.
>Some possibilities I've thought of would be 'Accidental Change' or
>'Multiform: Only effects mental statistics & personality."
> ...and if each has it's own Disadvantages.
> Crazy for being so lonely,
> Jason Sullivan
If you can't use the skills of one personality when another is dominant,
then you could set them up as ultra slots in a multipower.
If the player has difficulty in switching from one personality to another,
then apply an activation or skill roll to the changing of the multipower
slots.
If the player has no control at all then this is worth a heavier
disadvantage and then an accidental change on top of this.
Now my question: How about a character who has traumatic flashbacks? I'm
torn between enraged/berserk and physical limitation (the flashbacks are so
vivid that he is incapacitated whilst he is undergoing them)?
X-Sender: dalger@thyme.cisco.com
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:02:57 -0700
From: Douglas Alger <dalger@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Black Hole
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 25
>>> How would you simulate the effects of a black hole?
>>> What about a character whose Sf/x are
>>> powers are those which simulate
>>>the forces and Sf/x of a black hole.
I have a character with the powers of a dwarf star. He has Shrinking,
Density and considerable knockback resistance, in addition to TK to pull
people toward him. Together with Teleport (he can shrink down to
microscopically small and travel along an electron, then grow again), he is
obscenely effective. Nothing like a brick who is difficult to see and hit,
then teleports away when you finally can see him.
He absolutely spattered villains the first time I played him. Although none
of his individual powers were above the average levels found in our
campaign, I had to cut everything back to keep him from giving GMs too hard
a time.
- Doug
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:01:15 -0700
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Cantrip Question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 10
Scott Nolan wrote:
>
> I run a Fantasy Hero game. All sorcerers in the game have a basic spell
> called "Cantrip". Forget the mechanics, they're unimportant to the
> question. The intention of the spell is to allow a wide variety of basic
> abilities matching the special effects of the particular school of sorcery.
> Pyromancers can start fires, dry clothes, make their eyes blaze with
> light, etc. All minor, non-combat effects.
>
> A player asked me what that would do for his diviner, a school with
> detection and divination abilities. Obviously, it might be able to tell
> him where he left the keys to his camel, but what practical usage might
> such a spell have for a diviner? Could it allow him to know people's names
> when he met them? Could it predict the results of a hand of poker? On
> sheer game balance terms, I'd be for the former and against the latter.
>
> What else can you think of?
>
> Scott
-- Predict what the weather is going to be for the next day. Always
knows what pack contains the salt. Find the spot for the bed roll which
doesnt have rocks, ants, etc around it. Perhaps as far as having a short
term (several seconds) view the path to avoid misplacing his feet or
disturbing minor pests.
It depends on just how much power you wish to invest in the cantrip
and what other "spells" are available to the players.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 21 Oct 97 03:41:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Non-Stereotypical Mi
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 34
h > > What sort of Native American heroes would be considered
h > > non-stereotypical and non-offensive? Most of the Marvel ones had
h > some sort
h > > of "Indian" motif. I somewhat imagined that some would do that.
h > I'd like
h > > to interject some minority Supers into my games (probably as NPCs)
h > but would
h > > like them to be non-stereotypes. Yes, some will probably be
h > stereotypical,
h > > but I want some to be surprising, and I would like them all to have
h > depth.
h > > A little help (and some opinions) would be greatly appreciated.
Avoiding stereotypes isn't that hard. One thing to remember is that
just because someone of Native American decent gets superpowers, doesn't
mean he's automatically going to have a 'theme' based on his ancestral
culture. Base his theme on his powers or his personal interest, base
his psychlims on personal experiences, make the character an individual,
don't make race the central theme... First off, don't think "I need to
have a Native American (or Black or whatever) character in this game
to prove I'm not a racist." If you start off on that foot you'll just
be engaging in pointless tokenism.
When I build characters I usually start with an image, so it's easy
for me to decide on the race and sex of the character early on, the
name and powers then flow naturally. Alot of characters can also
start with a name or a power set. How do character ideas 'come to
you'?
Making a character non-offensive is a lot harder. If you make a
stereotyped character some people will jump on you for being
insensitive. If, as I suggest above, you minimize the impact of
race or culture, you might also be attacked for undervaluing that
culture. And, unless you're actually Native American or whatever,
if you try to create a sensitive well researched, cultural super,
you may well face upset people who think you're 'stealing' from
thier culture.
Finally, stereotypes are usefull. Every character can't be fully
developed and deep. Some just need to be quickly described and
understood. No one complains when yet another greedy business
tycoon, racist neo-nazi, or bigoted redneck is cast as a villain -
and those are pretty pervasive stereotypes. Some character types
almost *have* to be stereotypes - the super-patriot, for instance
(when the guy in the red-white-&-blue spandex shows up you just
*know* how he's going to act). And aren't some stereotypes just
plain positive: super-patriot, brave, or knight in armor - don't
they all just scream hero?
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 23:33:40 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: FutureGuy
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 27
FutureGuy is a superhero from the future who uses his nifty
gadgets to fight crime in the past. All of his gear is powered by
special Amirium-369 Power Cells (that are securely mounted on his
belt).
The A-369 PC belt is an END Reserve of 200, with a REC of 50.
The belt is shielded, and contains the dangerous, radioactive element
A-369. Both the belt and shielding are very resistant to damage.
The Amirium element has a side effect of being non-teleportable
due to it's unusual properties.
The unit functions well, in most cases. If the outer
core is breeched, however, the battery leaks it's harmful
stored radiation. This can be mended, however, by FutureGuy...
but not usually 'on the fly.' Amirium radiation, in it's
uncondensed form, has properties akin to that of other
hard radiation types.
Here's my query:
I've figured the END cost for the belt with the following
Adv./Lim.:
*END 200: BC = 20
Hardened AC = 25
IIF (Mobile, Unbreakable, Universal)
RC = 20
[I'm new at this... so if this is wrong, correct me please]
Now, here's my boggle. THe REC of 50 also has the advantage of
Hardened, but, when the battery is breached, the REC gets spotty, sometimes
replenishing the END, getting weaker and weaker with increased damage.
In addition, when it is struck, there is a chance of a radiation leak
with affects the character and the area.
When the REC no longer functions, and all of the END is wasted,
the radiation levels 'die down' doing more subtle damage to the character
(i.e. long term effects like cancer and radiation poisoning).
This is a IIF (Moble, Universal) but the shielding is not
Unbreakable. I was thinking of purchasing Ablative for REC only
to simulate the steady leak, and Side Effect for REC only to represent
the Intense Radiation of the leak (AC of power).
According to game mechanics, how much would the Real Cost be?
Also, the 'Side Effect' would switch from 'Intense Radiation'
to 'Passive Radiation.' Does this effect the Lim 'Side Effect' in any
way? The 'Intense Radiation' should have the following properties:
Continuous (stays around from phase to phase), Explosion (the 'leak'
damages thinsg surroudig it, but range lessens the intensity),
Invisible Power Effects (you take damage, but don't really feel it
or see it glowing), Indirect (goes through barriers like normal
walls), NND (defense is lead/radiation shielding or LS: Radiation).
The radiation would do No Knockback.
First, are my Adv. for the radiation valid or bunk? Can you have
a ranged Special Effect (like an RKA)? What about the Lim. (No KB),
the Side Effect is calculated on Active Points, but the Lim. doesn't
factor into that (or does it?). How often would the character take
damage? When would it stop? Does the Side Effect feed off the END
Reserve as far as the AC goes or is it 0 END?
About the 'secondary' effect of 'Passive Radiation' Would
it go into effect when the REC doesn't function (gone) or when the
END is depleated (through use or 'leakage' [assuming the SE would
feed off the END Reserve])? What would you make the Passive Radiation
SE (Transformation, a Drain, or Phys. Lim.: Radiation Poisioning/Cancer).
Could you even have a 'changing' m
Side Effect?
I have a feeling this is going to be throughly thrashed and
flamed... please do. :) I'm getting used to the system...
-Jason Sullivan
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 21 Oct 97 05:17:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Grey Areas
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 38
h > >characters spend Exp. A multi form is build on the same point
h > >base as the base form. So, if you have a 100 + 150 disads +15 exp
h > >base form, then each of the other forms has the same number of base
h > >points, and the same number of exp (not all of which may be spent)
h > >and a max of 150 in disads. In your example the breakdown would
h > >be:
h > >
h > >Multo = 100 +150 +15 = 265 (50 pts in Multiform)
h > >Mult1 = 100 + 85 +15 = 200
h > >Mult2 = 100 + 0 + 0 = 100 (and has 15 unspent exp)
h >
h > I'll say there's a misunderstanding -- what you're describing here
h > is
h > the Third Edition version of Multiform!
Huh? How so? I will admit that I have version-itis pretty bad,
but what exactly is 3rd Ed about the above?
h > Not that the description you were responding to was much better.
h > In
h > fact, I see nothing in the BBB that says anything about Multiforms
h > earning
h > experience. The only way I can see to increase the point value of a
h > Multiform is to put more points into it, at the usual rate of 1 point
h > spent
h > per 5 points improved. (I see the same rule for Followers and most
h > other
h > "secondary entities.")
Multiforms and Duplicates are not secondary entities. The character
earns exp regardless of which form he's in. The Multiform power defines
the maximum points you can spend on each form, but, all those points
still have to come from somewhere - base points, disadvantages, or
experience.
h >
h > >The character has only earned 15 exp, there is *no way* his
h > >multiforms could have 50 exp! Yes, this does mean adding
h > >disads after the start of the game, which is a little odd.
h > >More often, a Multiform character would keep his disads the
h > >same, and only spend enough exp on multiform to allow each
h > >form to spend the exp he's earned.
h >
h > I'm not quite sure how most of this matches up (or not) with what I
h > said
h > in the above paragraph. Obviously, we disagree on whether Multiforms
h > can
h > have experience points at all, but I *think* the principle of your
h > last
h > sentence is fundamentally correct.
h > However, a Multiform can have more points than the base character
h > if the
h > base character spends 1:1 point for the extras.
h >
You're thinking of Followers. With Multiform, the highest point form is
automatically the 'base' form. If one of the multiforms was bought up
higher than the original, the cost of the Multiform power would have
to be completely recalculated with the highest-point form as the 'base.'
h > >it at 0 pts... Multiform cost: 30pts for a 0 base pt multiform
h > +5/1pt,
h > >15pts +10/1 for each additional form. Forms cannot have more base
h > points
h > >than the base forms base pts + exp, and cannot have more disads than
h > >the normal champaign limit.
h >
h > I like this plan, at least provisionally. I've never liked the
h > rule of
h > paying for points in "secondary entities" that are covered by
h > Disadvantages. It's like paying for them twice, or taking
h > Disadvantages on
h > a character without *really* getting points for them.
h > ---
___
* OFFLINE 1.58 * I am not a Rules Lawyer...I'm a Rules Activist.
X-Sender: champion@mailhost.cyberhighway.net
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:28:40 -0700
From: Jim Dickinson <champion@cyberhighway.net>
Subject: Re: More on Powwow and Tribal.com
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 29
<x-html><html>
At 02:22 AM 10/20/97 +0000, Mark Lemming wrote:<p>
>> > Check out the editorial at URL<br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a
href="http://indy4.fdl.cc.mn.us/~isk/editorial.html">http://indy4.fdl.cc.mn.us/~isk/editorial.html</a><br>
>> ><p>
>From that page:<p>
<blockquote type=cite>In general how Powwow works (for Windows PC's only)
is that a database of information on each registered user is kept by
Tribal Voice, Inc. on its network. The Powwow software is
memory-resident, and opens each computer (or networks) it runs on to
contact and chatting, tripping, tribalizing, etc., from any other user.
It may or may not plant a piece of itself in hidden ways in user systems
(i.e. so you couldn't actually get rid of it or actually "turn it
off". That would be rather hard to determine, and ought to be
grounds for uneasiness about it. Tribal Voice offers a Yellow Page
service for businesses that use it.<br>
</blockquote><br>This is an paragraph that touts her ignorance to anyone
who has dared "desecrate" their computer by installing the
software. It doesn't work this way. If she can be this wrong about the
simple mechanics of the program that I challenge the validity of the rest
of her slanted comments.<p>
This person has clearly formed a strong, one-sided opinion, and has
clearly slanted her entire editorial around it. But I will assume that
any other clear-minded individual might be able to deduce this on their
own. To blindly accept what this person says without looking at the
program or website themselves is making an ignorant mistake as well.<p>
I happen to like PW in a lot of ways. But I formed this opinion through
USING the program, not by poking at it with a virtual
"Anti-Racist" stick. I don't want to argue with anyone about
this -- if you like the program, and aren't offended by the use of the
Native American terms, whether actually made by Native Americans or not,
then have fun. If you are offended by the use of these terms unless used
solely by TRUE (verifiable) Native Americans, or you just don't like the
software, or are paranoid about some aspect of that software burying
itself deep in your system to contact "big brother" (or maybe I
should use some Native American equivalent to Big Brother to be more
genre-oriented) and tell them secrets about you and your computer...well,
then don't use PW. But it that's that case, you must be running Windows
95 because we all know Bill Gates is the Anti-Christ....<p>
Jim<p>
<BR>
<font face="Courier New,
Courier">_________________________________________________________________<br>
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland. OR USA -=-
champion@cyberhighway.net<br>
WWW Role-Playing Resource:<br>
Castle Game
Knight:
http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/cgk<br>
Join the Circle of HEROs:
http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/coh<br>
-----------------------------------------------------------------</font></html>
</x-html>X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 21 Oct 97 05:33:06 GMT
Subject: Unbalanced Mental Power
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 31
h >
h > If someone gets a telepathy, and very good mind scan and ego
h > attack
h > for example. He can make a telepathy link with someone of his team,
h > and
h > then away from the danger of the battle, and receiving information
h > about
h > the battle from his partner he could just mind scan and ego attack any
h > opponent his partner could detect, being almost completely safe. And
h > he
h > could even get these powers by an Elemental Control.
h > Is this right ? What do you think about this ?
h >
h > []s.
It's mechanicall correct (though there might be some question as
to what a telepathic link really lets you do - you might have
to Mind Scan the entire area, rather than getting location info
from the link) but I don't think much of the idea for a super
hero game.
One option that might make the idea more acceptable: If the
character has mind link with one, specific other character
in the group, instead of general Telepath, and could only
project thier other powers to that characters general area
while that character is conscious to act as his eyes and
ears, then it would be OK from a game balance standpoint.
(the character can't be attacked, but if his forward
observer is taken down, he's not a problem anymore).
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 21 Oct 97 05:53:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Foci and Instant Cha
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 37
h > Given that the described use of Instant Change was specifically to
h > overcome
h > any disadvantages to Focus or OHID, I believe that it did need being
h > said.
h > The character in question clearly was *NOT* limited by either Focus or
h > OHID. He was able to retrieve his weapons with no effort; likewise he
h > was
h > able to switch between normal and heroic identities without
h > restriction.
h >
h > So, no bonus.
I think that in this case, it was the way it was run that was in
error. The evil knight should have Instant changed back into
normal (which presumably loses him some SPD and Defenses), lost
the rest of his phase due to the way changing SPD works, gotten
thoughly trashed (I beleive he was about to be hit by his own
sword) if not killed, and if he miraculously survived, changed
back and still not had his weapons (they were OAFs, they were
taken away, live with it). It's not that the combination of
Focus, OIHID, and Instant Change is intrinsicly broken, it just
has to be run correctly. Switching between normal and hero ID
multiple times with Instant Change is no more reasonable than
switching multipower slots more than once in a phase.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 21 Oct 97 07:13:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Grey Areas
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 32
h > > What I was talking about was that, in most cases, a "secondary
h > entity"
h > > based on 75 points with 75 points of Disadvantages costs the main
h > character
h > > just as much as one based on 100 points with 50 points of
h > Disadvantages,
h > > or one based on 150 points with no Disadvantages. This isn't true
h > of
h > > Followers (which use Base Points), but it is true of Duplicates and
h > > Multiforms. (I'm not clear on Summon for this one.)
Sorta... All duplicates and multiforms are built on the same base points
as the main character. So a 100 base point super hero would always get
a 100 + 50 point character when he pays for 150, never 75+ 75 (thoug it
would certainly be OK to give him one), and certainly never 150 pts
flat out. Experience can be thought of as adding to base points, so
if the character were to earn 50 exp, that 150 pt duplicate or multiform
could be 150 pts w/no disads.
h > This shouldn't make any difference, though, since most games will
h > have all players on the same scale (all 100+150 or all 75+75, etc.),
h > thus there would be no character inequities, and as for the
h > follower(s);
h > the comparative savings reflects the fact that a follower is
h > GM-CONTROLLED, based on the player's original conception; Dupes and
h > Multis are directly controlled by the player, thus more expensive to
h > reflect more control.
h >
h > -Capt. Spith
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 00:18:40 -0700
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Nonstandard Deviations: WARNING! Long, Pedagogical.
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 28
Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>
> >
> I guess you didn't look at the end of the first paragraph that you quoted.
> It clearly states that "the Everyman familiarity doesn't reduce the cost."
Forgive me if the following sounds like a review of Reading Comprehension
101, but I think that you are being obtuse.
First, you omitted the beginning of the sentence, "In this case..."
Clearly, there is a contrast being made, but a contrast to what? To
normal skills? Unlikely, since the full cost must be paid for normal
skills as well, so there is no need to say anything, and certainly
nothing unique to this case. What then? Obviously the contrast is to
some other class to be named in the remainder of the passage.
Let's look at the preceding sentence. Emphasis mine.
These Skills may be *purchased and* improved just like any
other Skills.
For now, let's just leave that alone. We'll come back to it after we
consider the second paragraph carefully. The first two sentences read:
All characters begin with 4 character points in their native
language; they will be literate if the most members of the
society are. Characters also have 1 Character Point
(Familiarity) in Home Area Knowledge, and 1 Character Point
in an appropriate Professional Skill.
Ignoring the odd locution, "The most members of the society," note how
this contrasts to the corresponding sentence in the first paragraph:
All characters have Familiarity (an 8- roll) with these Skills.
In the first paragraph, there is a reference to Familiarity as such. In
the second paragraph, the primary reference is to Character Points, and
familiarity is mentioned only parenthetically and therefore
nonrestrictively. Why the distinction? Perhaps these three Skills are
to be treated differently in some way, and that way relates to a
character point.
Continuing with the next sentence:
These should be noted on the Character Sheet, since they can
be improved like normal Skills.
Interesting! The word "these" refers only to those skills mentioned in
the second paragraph. If it were intended to include the skills in the
first paragraph, there would have been a paragraph break at this point.
Moreover, "these" should refer, in careful writing, to the most recent
collection: in this case the trio of LS, AK, PS. If it were intended to
include all Everyman Skills, then the sentence should read, "All these
Skills..."
Now, why is the author so concerned that these skills be noted on the
character sheet, and indifferent whether the other Everyman Skills are so
noted? Well, we have not yet looked at the adverbial clause. Apparently
the author is concerned that we know the reason -- these skills should be
noted because they can be improved, "Like normal Skills."
How are normal skills improved? One just buys them up with normal
character points. What about the other Everyman skills? It says in the
first paragraph that they, "May be *purchased and* improved just like any
other Skills." [emphasis mine again] Hmmm... It seems that the first
group of skills must be purchased before they can be improved, yet the
second may be simply improved. This looks like a contrast, and it seems
to be that the second group has been, in some sense, already purchased.
Perhaps that is why the author went out of his way to mention "Character
Points" in connection with the second set of skills.
Now, on to the last sentence:
These Skills are given free, so the cost shouldn't be addd in
to the character's cost total.
What does this mean? Perhaps these skills cost nothing, no matter how
far up they are bought? Probably not, since that would be a very silly
rule. Are all Everyman skills, of both types, meant? Again, almost
certainly not, since the first paragraph has already made it abundantly
clear that there is no cost associated with those skills. Besides, when
paragraphs correspond to cases that are distinct in some way, any
statements that can be seen as distinct *are* distinct.
This leaves the only reasonable conclusion, that the second set of skills
are noted as being free, precisely to avoid any confusion over the fact
that they were spoken of initially in terms of Character Points, and the
fact that those character points count, even if the skill is bought up.
If, by any chance, this *isn't* what the authors meant, they certainly
did an excellent job of sowing confusion.
> I personally don't allow the Everyman skills to reduce the costs of buying
> them up, and I think I'm correct in this.
If my character's native language is english, and I want to be able to
imitate accents, are you *actually* going to charge me *five* character
points for this??? I hope not. As for PS: vocation and AK: Home, I see
no reason not to grant what the rules plainly say, despite the fact that
most examples do not conform to it.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 21 Oct 97 07:22:12 GMT
Subject: Multiple Personality syn
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 35
h > How would you design a character with Multiple Personalities?
h > We're talking 4 or five seperate, distinct personalities who would
h > have certains skills (or even powers) unique to each. I'm concearned,
h > because I don't feel Psychological Limitation defines each well
h > enough.
h > Some possibilities I've thought of would be 'Accidental Change' or
h > 'Multiform: Only effects mental statistics & personality."
h > ...and if each has it's own Disadvantages.
h > Crazy for being so lonely,
h > Jason Sullivan
I've tried to do this twice. The only way that works really well
for me is Multiform + Accidental Change. The problem is that
you end up with very weak characters after paying for 4 or 5
forms. If you can get your GM to approve a 'mental stats and
personality' limitation, it'd probably work a lot better.
A psych or physical limitation alone doesn't usually do it -
unless there just isn't much of a difference among the forms....
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 21 Oct 97 07:31:14 GMT
Subject: Re: Question about Links
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 36
h > >
h > > My Champions links page (http://www.mactyre.net/scm/links.html) is
h > > unwieldy -- at last count I had 136 links, and they're listed under
h > > couple of categories, like PBEM games, organizations, campaign
h > > the like. I've had a bunch of requests for me to annotate the dang
h > > but I'm not really sure how I should do it. Should I keep the
h > > and maybe include a few comments, should I alphabetize and include a
h > > comments, should I make value judgements as to the merit of sites,
h > > them, what? Obviously there are sites which are much more useful
h > > others, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with judging the quality of
h > > others' work.
I think alphabetize within each category and include a few comments
about each site.
Thank you,
Opal
(Who makes frequent use of your site)
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 21 Oct 97 07:40:16 GMT
Subject: Fantasy Hero Cantrip Que
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 33
h >
h > A player asked me what that would do for his diviner, a school with
h > detection and divination abilities. Obviously, it might be able to
h > tell
h > him where he left the keys to his camel, but what practical usage
h > might
h > such a spell have for a diviner? Could it allow him to know people's
h > names
h > when he met them? Could it predict the results of a hand of poker?
h > On
h > sheer game balance terms, I'd be for the former and against the
h > latter.
OK: low (10x) power magnifier or telescope functions. Tricks
like guessing what card you just picked or what object your'e
thinking of. Using Tarot & similar divination techniques to find
out fairly obvious facts about a person, or make very vague (astrology
column of your local newspaper) predictions. As to the specific things
you mentioned. I'd let him know the name someone is about to give him,
or finish peoples sentences, or tell is someones probably bluffing in
poker, but not True Names (or even real names if the person is concealing
thiers, like a Secret ID, for instance) or exact results of complex
random events (ie 'he's bluffing,' not 'you know exactly what everyone
has in thier hand'.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58 * --------------------------------------------------
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:22:00 +0600
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Foci and Instant Cha
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 48
>Personally, I'd use Restrainable. A 1/4 Limitation from the Hero
>Almanac 1, restrainable is used to simulate innate powers that can be
>restrained. For example, Angel has wings, with which he flies. His
>wings can be grabbed or entangled, taking the power, but they cannot
>be removed.
>
>A similar limitation could be used for the Black Knight. Combined with
>OIHID, it is so close to the effects that we have been discussing that
>I'd probably call the "weapon can be taken outright, but is recovered
>by Instant Change" nothing more than a Special Effect.
>
This sounds like the most acceptable so far, although it has different SFX
than wings and such... I thought I had seen the value for Restrainable at
-1/2, though. I don't actually have the Almanac, just have seen this Lim
used before.
- Jerry
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 06:56:15 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Grey Areas
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 24
At 07:13 AM 10/21/97 GMT, Opal wrote:
> h > > What I was talking about was that, in most cases, a "secondary
> h > entity"
> h > > based on 75 points with 75 points of Disadvantages costs the main
> h > character
> h > > just as much as one based on 100 points with 50 points of
> h > Disadvantages,
> h > > or one based on 150 points with no Disadvantages. This isn't true
> h > of
> h > > Followers (which use Base Points), but it is true of Duplicates and
> h > > Multiforms. (I'm not clear on Summon for this one.)
>
>Sorta... All duplicates and multiforms are built on the same base points
>as the main character. So a 100 base point super hero would always get
>a 100 + 50 point character when he pays for 150, never 75+ 75 (thoug it
>would certainly be OK to give him one), and certainly never 150 pts
>flat out. Experience can be thought of as adding to base points, so
>if the character were to earn 50 exp, that 150 pt duplicate or multiform
>could be 150 pts w/no disads.
Hm... I don't know how I missed that paragraph in Duplication and
Multiform [the same paragraph in two different locations]. You're
approximately right on what you say here, except that I get the impression
that if the base character is 100+150+50 then each duplicate/multiform
should have the same structure.
This does make somewhat more sense than what I thought to be the case
(whether you're interpreting the passage correctly, or I am).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 07:03:41 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Grey Areas
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 25
At 05:17 AM 10/21/97 GMT, Opal wrote:
> h > >Multo = 100 +150 +15 = 265 (50 pts in Multiform)
> h > >Mult1 = 100 + 85 +15 = 200
> h > >Mult2 = 100 + 0 + 0 = 100 (and has 15 unspent exp)
> h >
> h > I'll say there's a misunderstanding -- what you're describing here
is
> h > the Third Edition version of Multiform!
>
>Huh? How so? I will admit that I have version-itis pretty bad,
>but what exactly is 3rd Ed about the above?
Never mind. I was misintepreting part of what you were saying; it was
clarified by a later post of yours.
> h > Not that the description you were responding to was much better.
> h > In
> h > fact, I see nothing in the BBB that says anything about Multiforms
> h > earning
> h > experience. The only way I can see to increase the point value of a
> h > Multiform is to put more points into it, at the usual rate of 1 point
> h > spent
> h > per 5 points improved. (I see the same rule for Followers and most
> h > other
> h > "secondary entities.")
>
>Multiforms and Duplicates are not secondary entities. The character
>earns exp regardless of which form he's in. The Multiform power defines
>the maximum points you can spend on each form, but, all those points
>still have to come from somewhere - base points, disadvantages, or
>experience.
Your first sentence depends on how one defines "secondary entities."
The definition I use stems from the character sheet: if the PC has to pay
points for it, then it's secondary. Followers, Vehicles, Bases, Summonees,
Duplicates, and Multiforms are all "secondary entities" in this sense.
As secondary entities Multiforms do not gain experience for themselves.
The base character earns all experience (even for events centering on a
Duplicate or alternate Multiform), and spends it from there.
> h > However, a Multiform can have more points than the base character
> h > if the
> h > base character spends 1:1 point for the extras.
> h >
>You're thinking of Followers. With Multiform, the highest point form is
>automatically the 'base' form. If one of the multiforms was bought up
>higher than the original, the cost of the Multiform power would have
>to be completely recalculated with the highest-point form as the 'base.'
Actually, I was thinking of Summon.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 97 14:16:01 GMT
X-Sender: smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk
From: smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk (Steve McGinness)
Subject: Re: Unbalanced Mental Power
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 40
At 05:33 AM 21/10/97 GMT, Multiple recipients of Hero wrote:
> h > If someone gets a telepathy, and very good mind scan and ego attack
> h > for example. He can make a telepathy link with someone of his team,
> h > and then away from the danger of the battle, and receiving information
> h > about the battle from his partner he could just mind scan and ego
attack any
> h > opponent his partner could detect, being almost completely safe. And
> h > he could even get these powers by an Elemental Control.
> h > Is this right ? What do you think about this ?
>
[snip]
>
>One option that might make the idea more acceptable: If the
>character has mind link with one, specific other character
>in the group, instead of general Telepath, and could only
>project thier other powers to that characters general area
>while that character is conscious to act as his eyes and
>ears, then it would be OK from a game balance standpoint.
>(the character can't be attacked, but if his forward
>observer is taken down, he's not a problem anymore).
>
I faced a similar problem to this with my old gaming group and wimped out of
a decision. Two fo the players wanted to play a composite hero, one was a
brick type who would be very physical whilst the other was a cripple who
piggy-backed on the brick. They wanted to share damage etc and utilise the
brick as the mobile carrier for the mentalist. If the brick was knocked
unconcious then the mentalist would snap back to his room and if the
mentalist was knocked unconcious the brick would recieve some psychic
feedback due to the enforced withdrawal.
I couldn't decide how to do it and so told them no. I thought I would
mention it because it was so similar to what was just mentioned, and that
perhaps the construction of such a character might be distracting for the
group??
Stephen "interested to see ideas on this" McGinness
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk (Steve McGinness)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 97 14:16:01 GMT
X-To: hero-l@com.october (Multiple recipients of Hero), champ-l@org.omg
Subject: Re: Unbalanced Mental Power
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: hermes.ex.ac.uk ip 144.173.6.14
X-Smtp-Mail-From: smcginn@csm.exeter.ac.uk
X-Sender: smcginn@csm.ex.ac.uk
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 41
At 05:33 AM 21/10/97 GMT, Multiple recipients of Hero wrote:
> h > If someone gets a telepathy, and very good mind scan and ego attack
> h > for example. He can make a telepathy link with someone of his team,
> h > and then away from the danger of the battle, and receiving information
> h > about the battle from his partner he could just mind scan and ego
attack any
> h > opponent his partner could detect, being almost completely safe. And
> h > he could even get these powers by an Elemental Control.
> h > Is this right ? What do you think about this ?
>
[snip]
>
>One option that might make the idea more acceptable: If the
>character has mind link with one, specific other character
>in the group, instead of general Telepath, and could only
>project thier other powers to that characters general area
>while that character is conscious to act as his eyes and
>ears, then it would be OK from a game balance standpoint.
>(the character can't be attacked, but if his forward
>observer is taken down, he's not a problem anymore).
>
I faced a similar problem to this with my old gaming group and wimped out of
a decision. Two fo the players wanted to play a composite hero, one was a
brick type who would be very physical whilst the other was a cripple who
piggy-backed on the brick. They wanted to share damage etc and utilise the
brick as the mobile carrier for the mentalist. If the brick was knocked
unconcious then the mentalist would snap back to his room and if the
mentalist was knocked unconcious the brick would recieve some psychic
feedback due to the enforced withdrawal.
I couldn't decide how to do it and so told them no. I thought I would
mention it because it was so similar to what was just mentioned, and that
perhaps the construction of such a character might be distracting for the
group??
Stephen "interested to see ideas on this" McGinness
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Multiple Personality syn
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 21 Oct 1997 10:50:14 -0400
Lines: 30
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 42
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "O" == Opal <Opal@october.com> writes:
O> I've tried to do this twice. The only way that works really well for me
O> is Multiform + Accidental Change. The problem is that you end up with
O> very weak characters after paying for 4 or 5 forms. If you can get your
O> GM to approve a 'mental stats and personality' limitation, it'd probably
O> work a lot better.
A character I designed but never played (the game folded before it started)
had something similar... except that it was not a disadvantage. I built it
around a Multipower. All the skills available to a "personality mode" were
wedged into an ultra slot.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNEzBIp6VRH7BJMxHAQHCUgP+MKH2UQGmsk1bwPczPrZis20fLtP0wHo9
UsiJA6WNsLF6WMcHYcjVbeqf7hPEdDpg/VlEFzbzXWmvv5y81pl/GareST3TrqpI
/axtSnLIoBLstd8oD0vcTHoGmYEV6ULHsntQtPqO8RDAzX5//+i1GZLC9eGw6Hod
36WYKhRZ6/0=
=O1yn
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 08:34:26 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Mentally Unbalanced
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 33
At 02:16 PM 10/21/97 GMT, Steve McGinness wrote:
>I faced a similar problem to this with my old gaming group and wimped out of
>a decision. Two fo the players wanted to play a composite hero, one was a
>brick type who would be very physical whilst the other was a cripple who
>piggy-backed on the brick. They wanted to share damage etc and utilise the
>brick as the mobile carrier for the mentalist. If the brick was knocked
>unconcious then the mentalist would snap back to his room and if the
>mentalist was knocked unconcious the brick would recieve some psychic
>feedback due to the enforced withdrawal.
>
>I couldn't decide how to do it and so told them no. I thought I would
>mention it because it was so similar to what was just mentioned, and that
>perhaps the construction of such a character might be distracting for the
>group??
This is an interesting concept! I can see a lot of stuff that could be
done to implement, though it utilizes a lot of house rules and probably
doesn't represent what the players wanted quite exactly.
First, of course, I'd want to be sure that both players would be coming
regularly, or at least would always be coming in together. It'd be
terrible to have one of them show and the other not, leaving the one who
came with nothing to do. I gather that most folks on the list have had
considerably less problem with this than I have, so it's probably not a
huge concern.
The sharing of damage, where something felt by one is felt by both, is
something I've seen several different ways. Some take it as a Physical
Limitation, and I've also seen it represented with Susceptibility. I like
the idea of using a variant form of Vulnerability for this type of thing.
Treat it as a 2x Vulnerability to all damage, except that both the extra
damage and the Disadvantage itself are taken by the other character. It's
handled a little differently, in that the targeted character's defenses do
count against the hurt character's damage, but this can be offset by some
modifier like -5 points or 1/2x value. This would be Very Common for most
things, and bought separately (with a GM's call to make it less then Very
Common) for Adjustment, Flash, and Mental attacks.
The mentalist snapping back to his room when the Brick goes down could
be represented with a Teleport, 1 fixed location, with lots of extra
distance. The modifiers most strongly suggested by the description are 0
END Persistent, Trigger, Always On.
The mental feedback felt by the brick would rather obviously be a
Susceptibility, probably 3d6, to the mentalist getting knocked out.
That much said, however, they do seem slightly unbalanced in that the
brick can continue to function without the mentalist but the mentalist is
out of the picture should be brick be rendered unconscious. I'd recommend
the following modifier to the concept: Forget sending the mentalist away
when the brick is knocked out. But as much as the mentalist is dependent
on the brick for mobility, so the brick should be dependent on the
mentalist for something, and I'd suggest senses.
So the brick, on his character sheet, is Blind and Deaf, and has
Clairsentience for Normal Sight and Normal Hearing that only functions
through the mentalist's senses (modify to your own taste and interpretation
of the rules). When the mentalist goes down, the brick can still function
somewhat, but is literally fighting blind. (To make matters worse, he
might even go Berserk when blinded.)
Of course, all of this would make the characters extremely vulnerable,
with an incredibly profound weakness that villains will be constantly
seeking to exploit (which, I can only assume, was the players' intent).
They can make up for it by having good defenses; the brick high PD and ED,
and the Mentalist maybe a level of Shrinking.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:16:16 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Foci and Instant Change
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 20
At 03:34 PM 10/17/97 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>JD> Did you have to waste our time just to chant? Our (mine and Rick
>JD> Ryker's) contention is that it *is* a Limitation. Possibly not a
>JD> *combat* oriented Limitation... but then, if you discount those, get
>JD> rid of 75% of the Disadvantages on your sheet, too.
>
>Given that the described use of Instant Change was specifically to overcome
>any disadvantages to Focus or OHID, I believe that it did need being said.
>The character in question clearly was *NOT* limited by either Focus or
>OHID. He was able to retrieve his weapons with no effort; likewise he was
>able to switch between normal and heroic identities without restriction.
>
>So, no bonus.
"No effort" and "without restriction" are not the only problems to be
overcome in this case. The fact that his opponents did not take advantage
of the fact that he was essentially defenseless for the moment that he was
in civilian ID is not of his own doing -- at least, as far as I can tell.
Also, as far as I could tell, the removed weapons could have been used
against him.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:17:50 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Grey Areas
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 18
At 10:46 PM 10/17/97 -0700, Captain Spith wrote:
>Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> What I was talking about was that, in most cases, a "secondary entity"
>> based on 75 points with 75 points of Disadvantages costs the main character
>> just as much as one based on 100 points with 50 points of Disadvantages,
>> or one based on 150 points with no Disadvantages. This isn't true of
>> Followers (which use Base Points), but it is true of Duplicates and
>> Multiforms. (I'm not clear on Summon for this one.)
>
> This shouldn't make any difference, though, since most games will
>have all players on the same scale (all 100+150 or all 75+75, etc.),
>thus there would be no character inequities, and as for the follower(s);
>the comparative savings reflects the fact that a follower is
>GM-CONTROLLED, based on the player's original conception; Dupes and
>Multis are directly controlled by the player, thus more expensive to
>reflect more control.
But it *does* make a difference, and the fact that all players in most
games are on the same scale is actually what makes it as much of a problem
as it is. If my 250-point PC has paid for a 200-point multiform (at a cost
of 40 points), is there any reason I should make him a 100+100 character as
opposed to a 200+0 character?
I can handle the fact that Duplicates and Multiforms are more expensive
than Followers. It makes perfectly good sense to me. If they did not,
then there should be some other restriction that makes them harder to
handle (like costing END to maintain). The problem is that if the
Dupe/Multi has Disadvantages, then that form is paying for the points
(through the Disadvantage), and so is the base character.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:18:55 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Grey Areas
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
At 12:15 AM 10/18/97 EDT, David W Toomey wrote:
>> However, a Multiform can have more points than the base character
>>if the
>>base character spends 1:1 point for the extras.
>
>
> No, the most expensive version, not counting Multiform costs *is* the
>base character,
>and has to pay the multiform costs for the others. If one of the other
>forms becomes
>more expensive, than *it* becomes the base.
I checked, and you're right; Multiform is the exception among "secondary
entities" to the rule I gave above.
However, I don't know if a secondary Multiform should (strictly
speak