Week Ending November 22, 1997
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:51:23 +0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: TUSV: Dive for Cover and...
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Can a vehicle Dive for Cover? I'm specifically asking about a
specific example... How many people have heard of Secret Service men
"taking a bullet" for the President? Well, in _Air Force One_, an Air Force
pilot "took a MISSLE" for the President... in a fighter jet. Dive for
Cover? Or GM ruling?
Also... Neon Genesis Evangelion. Anime, giant (biologic) mecha...
I really can't say much else about it... I just watched episodes 17-24, and
I'll see 25+26 tomorrow. Right now, I'm having trouble wrapping (warping?)
my brain around it... but it would be a *damn* interesting source for
mecha!!! and... ICK!
- Jerry
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 00:31:34 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Reply-To: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Subject: Marvel Write-ups - Boomerang
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, happyelf wrote:
> me tto. all interpretations are welcome to the lkst i'd say
> , just put them in on epost fer one character. . .and don't
> post EVERYBODY all at once.. .
>
I agree, and as the copies may come quite slow anyway, i will send them
to the list. Here is the first one, one that someone asked for, boomerang.
I used Herobase to type him, and its ASCII converter is larger the screen
so I will just attach a TXT file. The only attribute from the chars I will
send in that was just guessed is PRE and COM, as there is nothing like it
in Marvel RPG.
[]s.
Name : Boomerang Game : Champions
Secret ID: Player:
Value Char Cost Base Max Pts Pts. Powers/Skills End
15 Str........x1 10 N/A 5 40 Multipower - boot jets
24 Dex........x3 10 N/A 42 0 END(+1/2)
20 Con........x2 10 N/A 20 OIF (-1/2)
20 Body.......x2 10 N/A 20
15 Int........x1 10 N/A 5 5 m Flight 10" x 4 0
10 Ego........x2 10 N/A 0
10 Pre........x1 10 N/A 0 7 m Energy Blast 8d6 0
10 Com........x.5 10 N/A 0 Reduced by Range(-1/4)
3 PD.........x1 3 N/A 0
4 ED.........x1 4 N/A 0
4 SPD........x10 3.4 N/A 6 175 Multipower fixed slots - boomerangs
7 Rec........x2 7 N/A 0 0 END (+1/2)
40 End........x.5 40 N/A 0 (no OAF cause not only 1 focus for whole MP)
38 Stun.......x1 38 N/A 0 4 m Energy Blast vs PD: 12d6 EX - explosive boo 0
Characteristics Cost: 98 OAF(-1)
Explosion(+1/2)
Disadvantages 0+ Pts. 1 Charge Only, goes safely back to him on
Reputation (8-) 5 the same Phase if it doesn't hit anything(-1)
Hunted by NYPD (less, NCI, 15
limited to NY, 14-) 4 m HKA 3d6+1K, 4d6+1K with STR - knife boomera 0
PL: Greedy (common, strong) 15 OAF(-1)
May be thrown and return to him safely if
it isn't blocked (+1/4)
Concentrate to 1/2 DCV (-1/4)
2 m Flash 3d6 vs hearing - sound boomerang 0
OAF (-1)
Concentrate to 1/2 DCV (-1/4)
4 m Flash 7d6 vs sight - tear gas boomerang 0
OAF (-1)
Concentrate to 1/2 DCV (-1/4)
1 Charge, continuous for 1 turn (-1 1/4)
Area Effect 7" radius (+1)
3 m Energy Blast 7d6 NND - tear gas boomerang 0
OAF (-1)
Concentrate to 1/2 DCV (-1/4)
NND (+1) defenses for gas attack
Area Effect 7"radius (+1 1/4)
Linked with Flash above (-1/2)
1 Charge, continuous for 1 turn (-1 1/4)
1 m Energy Blast 6d6 - quite normal boomerang 0
OAF (-1)
Cannot spread or bounce (-1/4)
1 Charge Only, goes safely back to him on
the same phase if it doesn't hit anything(-1)
18 4 CS with boomerangs, 2 CS with thrown weapon
Exp: Disadvantages Total: 35 263:Powers / Skills Cost
-326 Experience Spent+ 326 98+Characteristics Cost
Total Points= 361 361=Total Cost
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Creating light
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:39:38 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
It has frequently been pointed out in this list that lights are very
expensive in Champions. I have been trying to find a decent way to get
around this for a while, and when looking at the thread "Shouting
Really Loud", I got an idea.
Levels are often used in Champions for a variety of effects that are
not easily explained. In the Gadgets! book, levels were used to reduce
an opponent's activation roll. The weapon created an energy field that
would crawl around the surface of armor, looking for an opening. It
was described as having 3 levels, only to negate activation rolls. If
your armor activated on a 14-, then the armor would fail on an 11- vs
this weapon.
The use of levels in enhancing your voice caused me to have an idea.
How about using UAO as a way of giving people levels they may not
want, such as positive levels to opponents PER or negative levels to
their own DCV.
Possible uses:
The Peace Field: -5 lvls with OCV (25 pts), AE (+1), UAO (+1), Active
100 pts. "I can't seem to concentrate on hitting him. I just don't
feel like fighting."
Lantern: +3 w/ sight (6), Explosion (+1/2), UAO (+1), only to negate
penalties caused by the dark (-1), OAF Fragile (-1 1/2) Active 15
pts., Real 4.
Headlights: (Note: Headlights use an Explosive Cone advantage. The
cone affects only a 60 degree cone, and costs only half as much as
Explosion, including area increases. The limitation Fragile is the
relative of Restrainable; just as Restrainable simulates those powers
that can be interfered with by grabs or entangles, but not easily
taken away, Fragile simulates those powers easily disabled, but cannot
be taken away easily enough to count as a focus, such as a headlight.)
+4 w/ sight (8 pts), Explosive Cone (+1/4), -1 PER / 9" (+1), UAO
(+1), only to negate penalties caused by the dark (-1), Fragile
(-1/2), can disable car if left on too long without car running
(-1/4), Active 26 pts., Real 8 pts.
The last one is the one we've been talking about most lately; how to
define headlights. There you are, for 8 pts., a power that negates
dark night penalties totally for the first 18 meters, and helps to
see up to 92 meters. It also allows anyone, anywhere, looking into
that area to have the same advantages as the people in the car. Keep
in mind that headlights do not actually light things up that well, it
can still be hard to see people at a distance, even though they are
directly in front of your face and in the middle of a flat, open area.
This is why they are only truly useful up to 92 meters, and in fact
probably deserve considerably less.
Filksinger
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:54:38 -0800
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Funky Powers (the 3rd Generation)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Yes the cost is limited. This is BTW the Hydra thing from the Bestiary.
>
> Medusa (aka Hair-Gal) could have speed 4 (20 points)
> and then 4 more Speed, only to do Hair VPP actions (-1) cost 20 points also.
Too generous IMHO. My schedule for SPD limitations, FWIW.
Cannot Recover or unstun (note 1) -1/4
Cannot abort an action from this phase -1/4
Cannot hold an action from this phase -1/4
Cannot use one power, multipower, VPP, or tight group -1/4
Cannot use several powers -1/2
Linked to a specified power (notes 2,3) -1/2
Limited to an MP/VPP or group of powers (note 3) -1/2
Limited to a restricted MP/VPP or a few powers (note 3) -3/4
Limited to a single power (notes 3,4) -1
Notes:
1) This is implicit in any -1/2 or more limitation except
"cannot use several powers," so no additional limitation
is permitted.
2) Power must require a half-action, END, a charge, or trigger
a side-effect or be otherwise disadvantageous to use.
3) SPD may be entitled to other limitations that apply to the
base power(s). This power may not be used to recover nor unstun.
4) If the power is rarely useful, this may be increased.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 01:46:19 -0800
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Creating light
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Filksinger wrote:
<<Description of 'Eureka' event and various effects detailed>>
> Headlights: (Note: Headlights use an Explosive Cone advantage. The
> cone affects only a 60 degree cone, and costs only half as much as
> Explosion, including area increases. The limitation Fragile is the
> relative of Restrainable; just as Restrainable simulates those powers
> that can be interfered with by grabs or entangles, but not easily
> taken away, Fragile simulates those powers easily disabled, but cannot
> be taken away easily enough to count as a focus, such as a headlight.)
> +4 w/ sight (8 pts), Explosive Cone (+1/4), -1 PER / 9" (+1), UAO
> (+1), only to negate penalties caused by the dark (-1), Fragile
> (-1/2), can disable car if left on too long without car running
> (-1/4), Active 26 pts., Real 8 pts.
>
> The last one is the one we've been talking about most lately; how to
> define headlights. There you are, for 8 pts., a power that negates
> dark night penalties totally for the first 18 meters, and helps to
> see up to 92 meters. It also allows anyone, anywhere, looking into
> that area to have the same advantages as the people in the car.
Good one! I still will probably stubbornly stick with light
illusions and simply fudge the specifics for my own purposes, but that
was a very well considered construct, and quite readily
game-mechanic-friendly as well! Kudos!
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"champ-l@omg.org\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 97 10:34:53
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Big-Top Blow-out!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 19:13:01 -0500 (EST), ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> It has come time for me to ask the greatest of all requests.
>
> I need information.... on anything remotely related to the
>circus.
Try CLOWN :}
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 04:52:15 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Essay: How do I? (long!)
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 10:21 AM 11/14/97 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>Except the TK is "Affects all parts of target" which lets one Grab and
>pull, but not crush or punch.
I know the book says otherwise, but I've never seen where "affects all parts
of target" would affect a crush -- it's definitely possible to squeeze "all
parts of a target" (increase in air pressure, for example, or ... well,
gravity). And losing BOTH grab and punch damage should be a little more
than a -1/4 Limitation.
In any case, I'd say the functionality of this power is enough to just /not
buy that limitation/ and call it part of SFX if you're not comfortable
mucking with the Limitation.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:17:58 +0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: I need a miracle!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:31 PM 11/16/97 -0500, Joe Claffey Jr. wrote:
> I'm having a problem with modeling the consecration rituals, though. I
>want to base it on a Cosmetic Transform, but dirt has a *lot* of BODY
>(16/hex).
But isn't that a *cubic* hex? That is, one hex across (diameter) and one
hex (2m) deep? So, if it only extended down *a little* ways... you'd have
a greater area...
- Jerry
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 03:28:03 -0800
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Heroic characters paying for weaponry?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Richard G Schwerdtfeger wrote:
>
> Here's a question for you:
>
> Do any GMs make their heroic-level characters pay for any weaponry or
> equipment that they might carry?
I would go by a very basic rule-of-thumb. Okay two.
If a character Always has a particular weapon, and the weapon is
considered by the player to be an intrinsic part of the character's
conception, then it costs points. Free weaponry also tends to give the
players more of a variety of weapons used in the course of a campaign,
while 'paid for' weapons will have PCs using the same one all the time.
Unless you set up a 'weapon pool' method of paying for weapons - whether
through a VPP or simply as a game-specific or house rule
If weaponry is available for free to the PC(s), then it will be
available for free to the NPCs. This may seem pointless (so to speak),
but even though NPCs are not required to be at the same CHAR cost level
as PCs, and the GM can spend as many points on NPCs as (s)he bloody well
pleases, it is still a guage as to how evenly matched the combatants
are. Evenly 'matched' NPCs with much more powerful free weaponry will
make more of a difference than NPCs who - after paying points for their
weapons - are on the same point level as PCs who have paid points for
their weapons.
I actually have a small isue going the other direction; I run
SuperHeroic games, but require Weapon Familiarities to negate the -3 OCV
penalty for unfamiliar weapons. Weapons that are part of a Hero's
Powers (thus paid points for) do not require familiarities, as I
consider that as implicit in the points already spent on the weapon,
however, this 'implicit' WF doesn't apply to similar weapons unless the
hero's weapon is bought STRICTLY by the 'real weapon' designs in the
book. Alternately, any available 'normal/real-world' weaponry is
occasionally available for free, but the WF is required to use them
unpenalized.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 06:25:14 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Heroic characters paying for weaponry?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 10:54 AM 11/15/97 +0000, The Ineffable Guy Hoyle wrote:
>Knowing what is and isn't "normal equipment" is hard, though. In my
>pulp campaign, someone wanted to buy shoes with spring-loaded daggers
>in the toes as "normal equipment"! (They had the backing of one of
>the most experienced GMs in our group, too.)
>
>As a rule of thumb, I define "normal equipment" as any item normally
>available in a store or a mail-order catalog. Equipment available to
>policemen and the military (not top-level secret military research)
>is also allowed. Thus, such things as gas masks, bullet proof vests,
>handcuffs, flashlights, etc., are allowed freely in my campaign,
>which is set in the 1930s. Bear in mind that bullet-proof vests and
>portable radio transmitters would automatically be Bulky.
>
>Gas bombs, blackout bombs, tear gas grenades, personal body armor
>(also Bulky), suction-cup climbing gear, battery-powered
>electric cattleprods, "wirepoons", Batarangs, etc., would all be
>bought with points. I really like the term "signature equipment"
>for this kind of gear, which would probably be available to
>top-secret organizations.
I agree with this assessment. "Normal equipment" is something that's
available to the general public. This stuff you describe in the last
paragraph would definitely be "signature equipment."
However, I'd only allow most of the stuff in the second paragraph to be
bought without a point cost if the PCs were police or military.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 06:37:35 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: TUSV: Dive for Cover and...
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 05:51 AM 11/16/97 +0500, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
> Can a vehicle Dive for Cover? I'm specifically asking about a
>specific example... How many people have heard of Secret Service men
>"taking a bullet" for the President? Well, in _Air Force One_, an Air Force
>pilot "took a MISSLE" for the President... in a fighter jet. Dive for
>Cover? Or GM ruling?
I'd call that a Dive for Cover. I hadn't really considered the
distinction of Diving into an attack (which is less restricted than Diving
away from one) until you brought it up here. I did already have the
possibility of a vehicle (with legs, or sometimes with special equipment to
Superleap) Diving for Cover the normal way.
> Also... Neon Genesis Evangelion. Anime, giant (biologic) mecha...
>I really can't say much else about it... I just watched episodes 17-24, and
>I'll see 25+26 tomorrow. Right now, I'm having trouble wrapping (warping?)
>my brain around it... but it would be a *damn* interesting source for
>mecha!!! and... ICK!
I'll take a look and see if it's at Hollywood Video.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 20:05:12 +0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Villains/Folklore
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 05:45 PM 11/16/97 GMT, Michael Adams wrote:
>Remember many Filopinos are Catholic, though some are Muslim. Also thier basic
>racial/cultural roots are Malay. So if you mix Spanish Catholic, some
>psuedo-Buddhist, with Muslim and like you might get an idea.
>
I think this may help out the most, from what I've gotten... it's at least
a starting point.
>I believe there is a few comparitive religion books around, and maybe even one
>on SE Asian/SW Pacific mythologies.
>
If anyone knows some titles... <hopeful>
>PS: Malay as in Maleo-Polynesian (sp).
>
Post Script or Professional Skill? I was just a little confused, as you put
it before your name... and it doesn't look like a PS, more like a KS. : )
- Jerry
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 10:24:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Reply-To: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Creating light
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Filksinger wrote:
> Levels are often used in Champions for a variety of effects that are
> not easily explained. In the Gadgets! book, levels were used to reduce
> an opponent's activation roll. The weapon created an energy field that
> would crawl around the surface of armor, looking for an opening. It
> was described as having 3 levels, only to negate activation rolls. If
> your armor activated on a 14-, then the armor would fail on an 11- vs
> this weapon.
>
> The use of levels in enhancing your voice caused me to have an idea.
> How about using UAO as a way of giving people levels they may not
> want, such as positive levels to opponents PER or negative levels to
> their own DCV.
>
> Possible uses:
>
> The Peace Field: -5 lvls with OCV (25 pts), AE (+1), UAO (+1), Active
> 100 pts. "I can't seem to concentrate on hitting him. I just don't
> feel like fighting."
>
These negative levels are entirely inconsistent with the BBB rules, even
if they did make it into a Hero product. Published Hero characters are
pretty poor adherents to the rules, sadly. I'd rather go with a Suppress
vs. DEX or Suppress vs. Levels.
> Lantern: +3 w/ sight (6), Explosion (+1/2), UAO (+1), only to negate
> penalties caused by the dark (-1), OAF Fragile (-1 1/2) Active 15
> pts., Real 4.
>
> Headlights: (Note: Headlights use an Explosive Cone advantage. The
> cone affects only a 60 degree cone, and costs only half as much as
> Explosion, including area increases. The limitation Fragile is the
> relative of Restrainable; just as Restrainable simulates those powers
> that can be interfered with by grabs or entangles, but not easily
> taken away, Fragile simulates those powers easily disabled, but cannot
> be taken away easily enough to count as a focus, such as a headlight.)
> +4 w/ sight (8 pts), Explosive Cone (+1/4), -1 PER / 9" (+1), UAO
> (+1), only to negate penalties caused by the dark (-1), Fragile
> (-1/2), can disable car if left on too long without car running
> (-1/4), Active 26 pts., Real 8 pts.
>
> The last one is the one we've been talking about most lately; how to
> define headlights. There you are, for 8 pts., a power that negates
> dark night penalties totally for the first 18 meters, and helps to
> see up to 92 meters. It also allows anyone, anywhere, looking into
> that area to have the same advantages as the people in the car. Keep
> in mind that headlights do not actually light things up that well, it
> can still be hard to see people at a distance, even though they are
> directly in front of your face and in the middle of a flat, open area.
> This is why they are only truly useful up to 92 meters, and in fact
> probably deserve considerably less.
>
These lights are brilliant! (Pun intended.)
Actually, by my reading of the vehicle focus rules, I'd give them a focus
bonus (OIF); though they can't be easily taken away (it takes one of those
stupid headlight screwdrivers!), they can be attacked separately from the
rest of the vehicle. Cheesy, yes, but I believe that's how the rules read.
Besides, 8 points is still a lot to pay for headlights.
The one other solution to the headlight/flashlight problem I've enjoyed
(but wouldn't use) was once suggested by someone on this list: 1d6 EB,
Does No Stun, Does No Body, Special Effect: Gives off light.
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:09:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: TUSV: Dive for Cover and...
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> > Also... Neon Genesis Evangelion. Anime, giant (biologic) mecha...
> >I really can't say much else about it... I just watched episodes 17-24, and
> >I'll see 25+26 tomorrow. Right now, I'm having trouble wrapping (warping?)
> >my brain around it... but it would be a *damn* interesting source for
> >mecha!!! and... ICK!
>
> I'll take a look and see if it's at Hollywood Video.
If your are going to watch some mecha anime, then try and find Kishin Corp
from Pioneer. WWII giant robots! They looks to be steam driven, have
engines that require hand cranking, vacuum tubes that blow out when
powering, are run by foot pedals and hand cranks the works! Normally I
can't stand the giant robot gnere (just a bit too silly for me) but this
series is way cool!
Another source for cool vehicle designs is Johji Manage's managa Caravan
Kidd, Drakuun and Outlanders. The latter has a lot of 'living' spaceships
and the like. The main race in the book grows ther spaceships, fighter
craft, shuttle and tanks from different animals. Very similar to the
brood warrior starships in the X-men. In the first two, we see a *lot* of
WWI and WWII technology mixed with high tech. Thus we get immense
Missouri-styled battleships that run off of steam power and float via
anti-grav; tanks mounted on the backs of huge lizards, airships and jets
bombers... all sorts of really cool retro-tech.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 21:38:13 +0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: TUSV: vehicles withi
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 12:45 AM 11/17/97 GMT, Opal wrote:
>I absolutely dispise the guided-missle-bought-bought-as-a-vehicle thing.
>It's an attack, it should be bought as an attack. If it's guided, it
>can have NRM, or extra OCV, and/or something like the Missle limitation
>out of Star Hero or Slow missle out of Robot Warriors.
>
Well, what are the parameters of these Limitations? I've never seen either
Star Hero or Robot Warriors, but I might want to build a Radar-Guided-Missle
someday (or one that homed in on Mutant signatures... hmm.).
- Jerry
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:41:37 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Area of Effect: Joined circles
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Cold-snap can create AE fields of killing cold. They cost no
END to maintain, and once set up, can exist indefinitely on their own.
If he were to set up AE fields of killing cold that joined, would they
do the combined damage of the two fields, the higher of the two damage
rolls, or simply the same damage. Also, where the two 'cold' circles
joined, would it be 'colder'?
Can you push an AE to be larger?
Would an equal ammount of heat vs. cold field cancel each other out?
Tell me what you think.
--Jason
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 16 Nov 97 17:19:10 GMT
Subject: Role Playing Militias
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!michael.adams
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Anyone do such a thing?
Especially for a Dark Champions/HERO game?
Basically ideas for names, organization, motives and like.
Mike Adams
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 09:26:38 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: TUSV: Dive for Cover and... (Mecha Anime)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> > > Also... Neon Genesis Evangelion. Anime, giant (biologic) mecha...
> > >I really can't say much else about it... I just watched episodes 17-24, and
> > >I'll see 25+26 tomorrow. Right now, I'm having trouble wrapping (warping?)
> > >my brain around it... but it would be a *damn* interesting source for
> > >mecha!!! and... ICK!
> >
> > I'll take a look and see if it's at Hollywood Video.
>
> If your are going to watch some mecha anime, then try and find Kishin Corp
> from Pioneer. WWII giant robots! They looks to be steam driven, have
> Another source for cool vehicle designs is Johji Manage's managa Caravan
> Kidd, Drakuun and Outlanders. The latter has a lot of 'living' spaceships
The ultimate 'genre' source for Mecha is anything with "Gundam" in the title.
At least the anime crowd tends to consider it the standard bearer for what is
'mecha genre'.
Another really cool flick is Gunbuster, though it's more into the people behind
the mechs than the mechas themselves.
Patlabor (sp?) is a good example of smaller, street level mecha, as is
Megazone23 (which also presents a really cool postulation for 'fooling all of the
people all of the time').
I think we all already know the value of Macross (Robotech).
For mech in a semi fantasy setting there's Aura Battler Dunbine (sp?) and 5 Star
Stories.
For a good 'car-based' anime there's Riding Bean (cool example of a vehicle that
can turn all four wheels, and of a character who's primary 'tool' is his car.)
I hope I'm not restating what's been said, but those are off the top of my head. :)
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 16 Nov 97 17:28:28 GMT
Subject: In Praise of Bob Quinlan
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!michael.adams
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
I concur with the statement of REF: Red October and Bob Quinlan. I'd say it
even if I did not have any files on Red October. I have been visiting RO since
c.1989 or there abouts. So if anyone has any quality ideas/supplments/etc then
stop by and post it.
Mike Adams
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 16 Nov 97 17:31:50 GMT
Subject: Re: In Praise of Bob Quinlan
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!michael.adams
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
telnet october.com
Where you can peruse history of the HERO game system. Talk to some of the
people who made it happen.
PS: Tell the authors how thier files are for everyone likes kudos.
Mike Adams
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 12:33:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Growth
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Robert A. West wrote:
> Captain Spith wrote:
> >
> >
> > Remember that although Jimmy Jiant is really really big, while his
> > hand is now as large as a cow, his target, relatively speaking, is a
> > small as a - uh - very small thing. Compared to a fly, my hand (and
> > everything else) is HUGE, but this doesn't make the fly easier for me to
> > hit, does it?
>
> Wrong example. If I were to model a real-world fly, I would give it:
>
> Danger Sense (sfx sensitive hairs that sense air movement)
> 360 sense on sight (sfx compound eyes)
> +N PER to sight (sfx 100/sec refresh rate vs 12/sec for human)
> Lightning Reflexes (sfx smaller, specialize nervous system)
> SPD 12 (sfx multiple limbs + high metabolism)
> Superleap and Flight
> Levels in Dive for Cover and Dodge (sfx multiple limbs)
>
I would also give it 50% or 75% Damage Reduction vs. Physical Attacks,
Does Not Work if Struck Against a Surface.
Flying insects (or other small flying creatures for that matter) don't
have much inertia, so if an object strikes them they're quite likely to
bounce away unharmed. Try using a flyswatter to kill a fly in mid-air,
rather than against a surface - it won't work.
This is one of my favorite powers to throw onto Shrinking characters.
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 12:36:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Area of Effect: Joined circles
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> Cold-snap can create AE fields of killing cold. They cost no
> END to maintain, and once set up, can exist indefinitely on their own.
Whew... 0 END, Continuous, Uncontrolled, Persistant and AoE... thats +3.5
in Advantages alone! That's one expensive power!
> If he were to set up AE fields of killing cold that joined, would they
> do the combined damage of the two fields, the higher of the two damage
> rolls, or simply the same damage. Also, where the two 'cold' circles
> joined, would it be 'colder'?
Combining the damage doesn't sound like a good idea. Yes, it is
technically two sepeate atatcks, but I think buy joing the two fields
you've just merged them into one big AoE. Just use one damage roll. I
also don't think it would be any colder in the area where the two fields
joined.
> Can you push an AE to be larger?
I guess so. The problem comes with pushing. You can push a power by 10
Active points (or more). Where do you get to add this? To the base power
before advantages? If so, then pushing your AoE EB by 10 points before
calculating the AoE advantage will certainly increase the AoE as well.
> Would an equal ammount of heat vs. cold field cancel each other out?
Sure. Look under 'Uncontrolled'. You need a reasonably common set of
defenses to turn it off. Heat fields and the like should count.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 12:36:22 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Help the dunce! (Calculating STR)
X-VMS-To: IN%"Champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
I know the ammount you can lift STR wise doubles every 5 points
of STR. Is there a formula I could use to figure out how much you could lift
with a particular STR?
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 16 Nov 97 17:39:22 GMT
Subject: Inspirations for a game world (was: fantasy books in games)
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!michael.adams
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Yes sort of. I have a world (universe - pocket?) that is based on a combo of
celtic/greek mythology, with strong innermixtures of Star Trek tech and Michael
Moorcock/P.J. Farmer/R. Zelazny and Tolkien at times.
Proof of A. Clarkes statement about high enbough tech looks like magic. Or high
enough magic looks like tech.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 16 Nov 97 17:45:44 GMT
Subject: Filipino Heroes/Villains/Folklore
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!michael.adams
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Remember many Filopinos are Catholic, though some are Muslim. Also thier basic
racial/cultural roots are Malay. So if you mix Spanish Catholic, some
psuedo-Buddhist, with Muslim and like you might get an idea.
I believe there is a few comparitive religion books around, and maybe even one
on SE Asian/SW Pacific mythologies.
PS: Malay as in Maleo-Polynesian (sp).
Mike Adams
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 18:38:23 +0000
From: David Cooper <raven@castles.com>
Reply-To: raven@castles.com
Organization: Raventronics
CC: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Xcel Charcter Sheet
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Chris Brecken wrote:
> I have an Xcel charcter sheet for champions, which i wouldent mind if
> some people were evaluate...
> Any one who wants a copy send me a mail message and i wil post them a
> copy. (Idident want to clog up the bandwidth of this board with it!!!)
>
> Cheers
>
> PS anyone interested in some charcter conversions from an old system
> called Golden Heroes to Champions. I have them on paper, but could type
> them up if there was some interest...
>
> Chris
Send please. I've been looking for a good Sheet.
--
"Look, mentally I'm older than Lincoln, emotionally
I'm six years old, physically I look like I'm in my
twenties, my hormones are going top speed, and I'm
something evolved from a slug evolved into something
evolved from an ape. And YOU got the nerve to say
YOU'RE confused?!?"
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:02:04 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect: Joined circles
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 11:41 AM 11/16/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> Cold-snap can create AE fields of killing cold. They cost no
>END to maintain, and once set up, can exist indefinitely on their own.
>If he were to set up AE fields of killing cold that joined, would they
>do the combined damage of the two fields, the higher of the two damage
>rolls, or simply the same damage. Also, where the two 'cold' circles
>joined, would it be 'colder'?
I personally would tend to go with the higher of the two, though the
specific special effects (that is, the "scientific" principles and
assumptions involved) could easily sway my decision.
> Can you push an AE to be larger?
Again, it depends on the SFX. On the whole, though, I'd tend to say no,
though there are some cases where I'd increase the Area Effect in
proportion to the amount that the Power was Pushed.
> Would an equal ammount of heat vs. cold field cancel each other out?
GM's call. Some might figure them to cancel out; others might rule that
it's the system shock more than the actual temperature that does much of
the damage. For me, it would depend on the special effects.
> Tell me what you think.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 19:28:40 +0000
From: Chris Brecken <Christopher.Brecken@sunderland.ac.uk>
Subject: Xcel Charcter Sheet
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
I have an Xcel charcter sheet for champions, which i wouldent mind if
some people were evaluate...
Any one who wants a copy send me a mail message and i wil post them a
copy. (Idident want to clog up the bandwidth of this board with it!!!)
Cheers
PS anyone interested in some charcter conversions from an old system
called Golden Heroes to Champions. I have them on paper, but could type
them up if there was some interest...
Chris
--
"Don't put your trust in foolish promises sworn.
Nor cryptic message scrawled upon every wall"
Tony Clarkin,
The Spirit
X-Sender: jrc@pop1.nai.net
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:31:46 -0500
From: "Joe Claffey Jr." <jrc@mail1.nai.net>
Subject: Re: I need a miracle!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> How to you represent miracles and general holiness in a HERO
>campagin? If you use a VPP, what are valid limitations (the example
>above shows the 'power' used without concious control, but Hothael
>and his brother Hosepth could not control the actual effects)?
>Could a 'base' (the church) possess the same type of holiness?
>...and would it be possible to pool the unfettered righteous might
>of Hosepth, Hothael, the bulky foci 'Cross of the Savior' and the
>holy ground of the church in the midsts of the heroic battle against
>the evil Dhampri Strogo, Overlord of Darkness?
>
> Tell me what you think.
In a Fantasy Hero campaign that I'm working on, demons (and other
creatures of that ilk) tend to have a Succeptibility to being on holy
ground, Vulnerabilities to being hit with holy weapons, and the like. Auras
of holiness are handled with Change Enviroment and Cosmetic Transforms
(ground to holy ground).
I'm having a problem with modeling the consecration rituals, though. I
want to base it on a Cosmetic Transform, but dirt has a *lot* of BODY
(16/hex). I'm trying to come up with a ritual that will allow a priest to
bless a church (or other appropriate site) in a few hours or so, but won't
cost a rediculous amount of points. Change Enviroment w/ O END and
Persistant gives the proper effect, but the power is linked to the priest
and not the gods. Any suggestions?
Joe Claffey | "In the end, everything is a gag."
jrc@ct1.nai.net | - Charlie Chaplin
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 19:31:52 +0000
From: Chris Brecken <Christopher.Brecken@sunderland.ac.uk>
Subject: Lightning Reflexes!!!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
This may sound stupid, but where did this power/advantage come from, and
whats the cost etc etc...
Chris Brecken
--
"Don't put your trust in foolish promises sworn.
Nor cryptic message scrawled upon every wall"
Tony Clarkin,
The Spirit
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:32:29 -0800
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Growth
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Captain Spith wrote:
>
>
> Remember that although Jimmy Jiant is really really big, while his
> hand is now as large as a cow, his target, relatively speaking, is a
> small as a - uh - very small thing. Compared to a fly, my hand (and
> everything else) is HUGE, but this doesn't make the fly easier for me to
> hit, does it?
Wrong example. If I were to model a real-world fly, I would give it:
Danger Sense (sfx sensitive hairs that sense air movement)
360 sense on sight (sfx compound eyes)
+N PER to sight (sfx 100/sec refresh rate vs 12/sec for human)
Lightning Reflexes (sfx smaller, specialize nervous system)
SPD 12 (sfx multiple limbs + high metabolism)
Superleap and Flight
Levels in Dive for Cover and Dodge (sfx multiple limbs)
Of course, the GM might have to run combat using millihexes (2mm) ;-).
Now, try using a flyswatter, which has invisibility to the special effect
of the fly's Danger Sense (sfx air holes). Try hitting an ant or
stepping on a small bug, which lack most of the above powers. Aside from
squeamishness, these are made easier by my size, yet the ant and the bug
are within one or two levels of shrinking of the fly.
A hand is, normally, about 10cm across. The formula to compute points of
growth to make an object that normally has a characteristic linear
dimension of L increase to G is
Growth = 15 * (log G - log L)/log 2.
The base of the logarithm is irrelevant: common or Naperian will do
equally well. This rule implements the rule that 15 points of Growth
doubles height and width (obviously modeling most creatures as
cylinders). For the instant case:
Growth - 15 * (log 2 - log .1)/log 2 = 64.8 rounds to 65.
65 points of growth is 13 levels, but you could argue that someone with
12 levels of growth could get the same effect by using an open hand. If
someone has spent 65 points on Growth, I am willing to *give* him an
AoE/hex attack with his STR for free. Good Lord, the man is 80m tall and
weighs 819 metric tons!
BTW, note that under this interpretation, the character would have to buy
any non-area attacks separately as powers. Fine manipulation is a bit
tough for someone the size of a sequoia!
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 19:33:39 +0000
From: Chris Brecken <Christopher.Brecken@sunderland.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Lightning Reflexes!!!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
I feal a little stupid, but i was talking about lightning reflexes.
Seams my hands were moving faster than my brain could follow them.
>
> This may sound stupid, but where did this power/advantage come from, and
> whats the cost etc etc...
>
> Chris Brecken
> --
> "Don't put your trust in foolish promises sworn.
> Nor cryptic message scrawled upon every wall"
>
> Tony Clarkin,
> The Spirit
--
"Don't put your trust in foolish promises sworn.
Nor cryptic message scrawled upon every wall"
Tony Clarkin,
The Spirit
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 12:09:55 -0800
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Powers and Travel Time
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>
> How fast does a power get to a target?
> What are the velocity of powers? How long does it take a given
> power to reach a given target? If the answer is 'instantaneous,' then how
> would you represent a power that needs time to travel to it's target
> (perhaps giving the defending character time to move out of the way).
>
I have done this as follows:
If the power must be maintained in some way (such as a TV-guided missile)
as it wends its way to the target, then this is just an unusual SFX on
Extra Time.
If the power need not be maintained, but can be stopped by reasonable
means (such as shooting the missle with an EB), or avoided by diving
for cover or running away, then this is both Time Delay Advantage (+1/4)
and Extra Time limitation.
If the power cannot be stopped or avoided by reasonable means (an
intelligent guided missile) then this is the Time Delay advantage, with a
limitation on the advantage that the time is fixed by range (-1). It may
also be better to do the power as a follower or a vehicle if it has a
significant flight time to the target and has targeting intelligence.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:18:49 -0600
From: Max <garymo@ipa.net>
Reply-To: garymo@ipa.net
Subject: unsubscribe
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Unsubscribe.
--
When he concentrates, prepare against him; where he is strong, avoid
him. Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance. Invulnerability
depends on one's self; the enemy's vulnerability on him.
Sun Tzu
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 15:23:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Lightning Reflexes!!!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Chris Brecken wrote:
> This may sound stupid, but where did this power/advantage come from, and
> whats the cost etc etc...
>
It was in one of the Dark Champions supplements - maybe Eye for an Eye. I
know it was a Steve Long book. That alone may be why people are a little
skeptical about it - he's done some pretty questionable things with the
rules.
Lightning Reflexes isn't really a new power/characteristic anyway. It's
simply DEX bought with a -1 limitation that it doesn't affect DCV or most
DEX rolls, acting mainly to determine when you act in the phase.
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 21:37:57 +0000
From: David Cooper <raven@castles.com>
Reply-To: raven@castles.com
Organization: Raventronics
CC: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Xcel Charcter Sheet
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 1
Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
> > "Look, mentally I'm older than Lincoln, emotionally
> > I'm six years old, physically I look like I'm in my
> > twenties, my hormones are going top speed, and I'm
> > something evolved from a slug evolved into something
> > evolved from an ape. And YOU got the nerve to say
> > YOU'RE confused?!?"
>
> What is this quote from?
>
> -Tim Gilberg
It's from a Japanese Anima, called Robotech
--
"Look, mentally I'm older than Lincoln, emotionally
I'm six years old, physically I look like I'm in my
twenties, my hormones are going top speed, and I'm
something evolved from a slug evolved into something
evolved from an ape. And YOU got the nerve to say
YOU'RE confused?!?"
X-Sender: wbandsis@mail.westco.net
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:48:31 -0500
From: "C. Badger" <wbandsis@westco.net>
Subject: Re: Xcel Charcter Sheet
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 19:28 11/16/97 +0000, Chris Brecken wrote:
>I have an Xcel charcter sheet for champions, which i wouldent mind if
>some people were evaluate...
>Any one who wants a copy send me a mail message and i wil post them a
>copy. (Idident want to clog up the bandwidth of this board with it!!!)
>
>Cheers
>
>PS anyone interested in some charcter conversions from an old system
>called Golden Heroes to Champions. I have them on paper, but could type
>them up if there was some interest...
Definitely post both to me if you would. Just make sure the spreadsheet is
pkzipped first if possible.....
Thanks
-----
C. Badger
My Feet hurt and I've forgotten how to dance.
Londo
Babylon 5
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:00:08 -0800
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Growth
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
>
> I would also give it 50% or 75% Damage Reduction vs. Physical Attacks,
> Does Not Work if Struck Against a Surface.
>
> Flying insects (or other small flying creatures for that matter) don't
> have much inertia, so if an object strikes them they're quite likely to
> bounce away unharmed. Try using a flyswatter to kill a fly in mid-air,
> rather than against a surface - it won't work.
>
Good point, although I *have* killed flies by swatting them in mid-air.
Usually, they are killed by knockback damage when they hit a surface, but
sometimes they are dead from the impact.
Why not just take Armor Limited by Knockback(-1/4)? This would have the
desired effect in most cases and be much cheaper. Also, add Roll with
a Punch to the three manoeuvres allowed for the 3-pt levels.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:09:23 -0800
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Help the dunce! (Calculating STR)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>
> I know the ammount you can lift STR wise doubles every 5 points
> of STR. Is there a formula I could use to figure out how much you could lift
> with a particular STR?
OK, you asked for it, but you will need a scientific calculator:
Lift = 25 * 2^(STR/5) kilograms.
Thus, a 37 STR can lift 25*2^(37/5) = 25*2^7.4 = 25*168.9 = 4,222kg. A
kilogram is about 2.2 pounds if you need to think in traditional units,
so the formula becomes
Lift = 55 * 2^(STR/5) pounds,
and a 37 STR lifts 9,288 lb.
The converse formula, the STR to lift an object of weight W, is
STR = 5*(log W - log 25kg)/log 2.
Expressed in pounds,
STR = 5*(log W - log 55lb)/log 2.
For our example, lifting 4,222kg = 9,288lb requires a STR of 36.99927,
which rounds to 37 in anyone's book.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: I need a miracle!
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:19:45 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 3
On Sunday, November 16, 1997 11:03 AM, Joe Claffey Jr. wrote:
<snip>
> I'm having a problem with modeling the consecration rituals, though.
I
>want to base it on a Cosmetic Transform, but dirt has a *lot* of BODY
>(16/hex). I'm trying to come up with a ritual that will allow a
priest to
>bless a church (or other appropriate site) in a few hours or so, but
won't
>cost a rediculous amount of points. Change Enviroment w/ O END and
>Persistant gives the proper effect, but the power is linked to the
priest
>and not the gods. Any suggestions?
Make it a 1d6 Cosmetic Transform, Cumulative, AE 1 hex. Then, have him
walk slowly around the area in question. Up the dice or the area to
increase the effect. Add ritual implements (foci), prayers
(incantations), concentrate, and maybe gestures (repeatedly doing the
"sign of the cross" or equivalent, waving incense, etc.).
Filksinger
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 00:07:06 GMT
Subject: Energy Solidification
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > How would you represent this in Champions? I understand
h > the shaping part would probally be a VPP with the apropiate energy
h > being the Sf/x, but what about a character who could just
h > solidify the powers of others, as well as mundane energy sources.
h > -Jason
Probably linked Force Wall & the energy attack of your choice,
or linked Entangle (sepparate target) and energy attack.
VPP is always an option (i mean that, for anything). Also, someone's
bound to mention Transform (ugh). For the character who solidifies
existing energy, you'd probably just have a limited form of Force
Wall or Entangle - if he can solidify just about any energy ("I'll
solidify the light in the room so no one can move!"), an F/X for
same.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 00:20:08 GMT
Subject: I need a miracle!
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > How to you represent miracles and general holiness in a HERO
h > campagin? If you use a VPP, what are valid limitations (the example
h > above shows the 'power' used without concious control, but Hothael
h > and his brother Hosepth could not control the actual effects)?
h > Could a 'base' (the church) possess the same type of holiness?
h > ...and would it be possible to pool the unfettered righteous might
h > of Hosepth, Hothael, the bulky foci 'Cross of the Savior' and the
h > holy ground of the church in the midsts of the heroic battle against
h > the evil Dhampri Strogo, Overlord of Darkness?
h >
h > Tell me what you think.
h > -Jason
In that particular case, it was probably a Suceptiblity on the part
of the Undead, not a particular power of the area that was functioning.
Uncontrolled is a good limitation for representing miracles that a
diety choses to bestow on the faithful from time to time. Discretionary
powers supplied by a diety could take a minor limitation: Power comes
from a Soruce -1/4, which just means that the given power might not
function, or might function differently depending on the motivation
of the being providing it. Such a character might also have a
Watched by the diety (talk about 'more powerful').
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 00:21:10 GMT
Subject: Re: TUSV (Vechiles/Weapo
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h >
h > Rad Dude is a character who has an Ubatanium reinforced
h > skateboard. He uses it to bat evil villians over the head, as
h > a shield whilst in the midsts of battle, and as a really speedy
h > ground vechile.
h >
h > Lasher, the whip weilding hero, wants to build a handheld
h > swing line as a vechile, as well as adding powers on to it
h > (like entangle) in a power pool.
h >
h > What do you think of this idea?
h > -Jason
h >
I hope you're kidding. These are clearly foci.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 00:35:12 GMT
Subject: Two weapon style
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
h >
h > Wolfram the Mongoose is a theif with style. He often fights
h > with two weapons at the same time, and likes to strike with them
h > simultaneously. He also uses two crossbows at the same time during
h > interrogations, pointing one each at the king's men, promising he'll
h > shoot
h > the man who gives him the least information.
h >
h > How would you simulate this effect?
h >
The crossbows aren't a problem... he's only going to fire one of
them. I doubt he could use a 'cover' manuever on both simultaneously,
but as long as they're just sitting there. Likewise, when using two
ranged weapons simultaneously the only major advantage you have is
more ammo, and a backup you don't have to waste a 1/2phase drawing
if the other jams.
In melee you have a number of options. You could just use the
WF: off hand from Ninja Hero & UMA (costs 1pt, gives you a +1 DCV
whenever you fight with two weapons). By the same token you could
take some extra levels when using two weapons (+2 w/ two-weapon
style). If you actually want to hit two opponents at once, you can
use a Sweep manuever, with the F/X of stricking each victim with
a different weapon. If you want to hit the same sucker twice, you
can buy limited Autofire on your attack. If you're useing dissimilar
weapons (rapier & baton, for instance), you can link them, with a
limitation that you have to hit by at least 2 for both to strike.
One thing I did in 3rd Ed, was to buy the 1st weapon as a KA
(or whatever), OAF, and the 2nd as an Extra Limb, (OAF). Back
then, Extra Limb cost 10pts per limb and each one gave you a
+1 OCV. The idea was that the 1st OAF taken away was the Extra
Limb, the 2nd was the KA...
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 00:39:14 GMT
Subject: Re: Growth
X-Ftn-To: Opal
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> Remember that although Jimmy Jiant is really really big, while his
> hand is now as large as a cow, his target, relatively speaking,is a
> small as a - uh - very small thing. Compared to a fly, my hand (and
> everything else) is HUGE, but this doesn't make the fly easier for me
> hit, does it?
> --
Doesn't it? Try hitting a fly with your hand, or with a slightly
larger fly swatter. Tough, but you can do it, right? Now try
hitting one with a broomhandle....
Actually, it's pretty easy to hit exactly the spot a fly is sitting
at with a flyswatter. When you don't get them, it's because they
fly off at the last second. You see, they have compound eyes that
are very good at spoting movement, and an instinctive reaction to
flee at first sign of movement. In other words, they have levels
with sight, 360 vision, Lightning Reflexes.... and they Dive for
Cover away from the flyswatter. hee hee :)
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 00:45:16 GMT
Subject: Re: TUSV: vehicles withi
X-Ftn-To: Opal
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
> At 09:52 PM 11/8/97 GMT, Opal wrote:
>>One question though: Vehicles are bought as Followers, & you can
>> doublethe number of followers for +5 points. Say I buy a big vehicle
>>50 points (250pt vehicle) I want it to have a 50pt shuttle craft,
>>if I spend 5 pts, I get another 250pt vehicle (which as far as I know
>>scratch, it cost 10pts. What do I do? Have the 250pt vehicle pay 10
>>it's points for the 50pt one? That means it costs me 2 pts for
>> 10pt >power... but then, for 5pts I can get another 250pt one.
>>
> A vehicle may own another vehicle if the second vehicle is tied
> to the first one. An elevator, a *dedicated* carrier, or a
> "guided missile" weapon are three examples. The shuttles would gener
I absolutely dispise the guided-missle-bought-bought-as-a-vehicle thing.
It's an attack, it should be bought as an attack. If it's guided, it
can have NRM, or extra OCV, and/or something like the Missle limitation
out of Star Hero or Slow missle out of Robot Warriors.
> bought separately (unless the GM decided that they're close enough to
> a part of the main vehicle that they can be bought as sub-vehicles).
I see, so a shuttle with Flight as it's only movement power would be
very dependent on the mothership with FTL, if it's a campaign where
star-hopping is the major focus. But if characters made only very
infrequent interplanetary trips, it would be bought sepparately.
>>Back in Champions III they had a process called 'breaking down
>>you could do something simillar here. Something like:
> [example snipped]
>>Buying followers is simpler in the 4th ed, the Camps III bit was
>>really messy. :)
> I thought about reviving this, but for this very reason decided not to
> (especially since one of the Sample Campaign Settings involves owning
> scads of vehicles).
> ---
The problem is that if you don't do something like that, it's
enormously expensive to have a few vehicles of different point levels
compared to having a huge fleet of high-powered vehicles.
And, adapted to 4th ed, it's not that messy, beacuse the math is
much simpler (that's what I meant to say, anyway).
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 00:46:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Acronyms
X-Ftn-To: Opal
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > >
h > > Come up with one for "GENOCIDE" and I'll really be impressed.:)
h >
h > Global Eugenic Normalization Organization for Classification,
h > Identification, Detection and Elimination.
h >
h > You may substitute "Genome" for "Global," but I think that is
weaker.
h > <------------------------------------------------------->
h > Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
OK, I'm impressed. How bout substituting Extermination for
Elimination.
Make's em sound nastier. :)
Or maybe I just like Daleks.
ex-ter-min-ate! Ex-Ter-Min-Ate! EX-TER-MIN-ATE!
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 00:47:20 GMT
Subject: Spirit rules...
X-Ftn-To: Opal
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> I'm planning a present-day paranormal investigations campaign,
> not sure about the Spirit rules.
> Some of the opposition will be ghosts and demons. Are the
> rules as presented in Horror Hero and the Almanac a good way
> rid of these bad guys? Are the Shift Spirit powers priced
> what they are worth, or are they overpriced (as they seem)?
> Any comments?
>
> Richard
>
The Spirit Rule are Horrible. The Powers are definite not overpriced,
infact, I couldn't immagine them being overpriced, no matter how
much you charged for them. They just shouldn't exist.
You're better off representing spirits, ghosts and such as
Desolid characters.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 00:50:22 GMT
Subject: Filipino Heroes/Villains
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
h > I was wondering... has anyone on the list written up Filipino
h > heroes or villains, or know of where I could get information on
h > myth or folklore? Seems I will be running a game or two for my friend
h > his sister and maybe two others... and they're all Filipino, and I'm
h > some ignorant white dude. I may set the game in the Philippines, but
h > like to include some real life background flavor in the NPC
h > Any help at all would be appreciated.
h >
h > - Jerry
You're just some ignorant white guy, and you should set your game
somewhere you're familliar with. Or at least somewhere that you
and your players are equally unfamilliar with.
Trust me.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 00:55:24 GMT
Subject: Moveable Force Wall
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h >
h > What advantages/limitations would you give to a Force Wall that move
h > with his creator but also can only be created so that its creator is
h > its
h > center ?
h > And what more if its size and form is fixed ?
I assume that FW move with the creator, if centered on him. Otherwise,
they're stationary. No Range 1/2 gives you a force wall that can only
be centered on your hex, or the ring of hexes around you. If it's
a small (1 hex) or variable shape FW, it might be worth an additional
limitation if it can only be centered on you (means you can never
use it to entrap people). For a fixed size and form, probably a -1/4
(akin to the Beam limitation).
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Lightning Reflexes!!!
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 16 Nov 1997 19:56:52 -0500
Lines: 35
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "BS" == Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu> writes:
BS> It was in one of the Dark Champions supplements - maybe Eye for an
BS> Eye. I know it was a Steve Long book. That alone may be why people are
BS> a little skeptical about it - he's done some pretty questionable things
BS> with the rules.
While I am one of Long's more vociferous detractors, I consider "Lightning
Reflexes" to be one of Long's few elegant solutions to a real-world
problem: zanshin.
Zanshin is a mental state in which thought and action are the same thing.
It really exists, and it is impressive to see a master Iaidoka
(practicioner of Iaido). It is not that he is superhumanly fast, it is
that his reaction time is astounding -- because he does not need to waste
time thinking about what to do. The thought to strike and the strike
itself occour simultaneously.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNG+WUZ6VRH7BJMxHAQFf6QQApaAZfFmka6OdKM+9cQyaa492ZqQCFjnA
PdbzgWUt29zZPug18gI0W00jeZjdQ5gwblOlZqwK30CgS3nbOGOsTvBueBbr37Of
tmwS1aIyp3jpu2Z+32m2iUG+TJ0rNnz4RBUE9snNNxfk0ZJ3tTWobi8J7U4gPKca
dOPwQcblDDI=
=39Xr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 00:59:26 GMT
Subject: Btilc
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > even before the 'magic potion'. Though I really wonder what that magic
h > potion does -
h >
h > "See things no one else can see, do things no one else can do!"
h >
h > I was thinking maybe a whole bunch of little Aids (STR, DEX, CON, PRE,
h > (+1/2), Fade Rate: 5 CP per 5 Hours (+1), OAF Magic Potion (-1),
h >
h > That's 44 real points, but really spiff for assaulting Lo Pan's
h > underground
h > sanctuary.
The potion may just have enabled the whole adventure. If you think
of the strange temple that Lo Pan had underneath his building as
being an alternate, mystical realm, it could only be reached by people
able to percieve and act on it. That would make the potion
Extra Dimensional Movement...
h > Then there's the Six Demon Bag "Wind, Fire, Thunder, all that good
h > stuff!"
h > ------
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 01:05:28 GMT
Subject: Screaming Really Loud
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > I'm trying to figure out how to implement two fairly minor powers
h > in an affordable way.
h >
h > 1. Being able to scream really loud: loud enough to be heard from
h > miles around. Does no damage, just loud. (and obnoxious, I guess)
h >
h > 2. Generating a light, like a lantern. Just a light, nothing
h > special.
h >
That's easy: Change Environment, or if you want people to understand
the scream, Images.
h > Any ideas how to build these powers _cheaply_?
h > -Eric
Oh, cheaply, never mind. The problem is that the way you buy
up area for CE and Images is +5 pts per doubling, while the way
you buy up area for AE attacks is a +1/4 advantage. Usualy the
CE is cheaper, but when you buy a minimum cost attack it falls
appart. It's much cheaper (at 2.5 Apt per doubling) to buy an
area effect: huge, 2d EBp hail storm, than an area effect: huge
Change environment: Rain.
In your example, it's cheaper to buy a 1d Flash: hearing F/X scream
over a huge area than to buy the Image over that area. Mind you,
with images you might not need to - the sound occurs in one hex
but could carry some distance, assign your Image's per roll penalties
as bonuses to hearing it from a distance. :)
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 01:38:30 GMT
Subject: Heroic characters paying
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > From: RGSchwerdtfeger@directv.com (Richard G Schwerdtfeger)
h > Here's a question for you:
h >
h > Do any GMs make their heroic-level characters pay for any
h > weaponry or equipment that they might carry?
h >
h > For my paranormal investigations campaign, I'm thinking of making
h > the players pay for those items that they would always be carrying,
h > like a personal sidearm, or a magic dagger, or a bullet-proof vest.
h > Then, if they need some heavier fire-power for an adventure, they can
h > request it from their bosses. If I deem it proper, I'll give them what
h > they need.
h >
Generally, I think it's a good idea for players to pay for anything
unusual for the setting. If your investigators are in modern day
America, there's nothing unusual about the side arm (assuming the
character has the Perk for the permit), the bullet-proof vest would
be a bit odd (grey area), the magic dagger would certainly have
to be bought with character points.
h > Considering this will probably only be 10 or 15 points (out of a
h > total of 150), do you think this is a good idea or a bad idea? Do you
h > think it will cause players to want to spend more on weaponry (like an
h > assault rifle) and less on investigative skills, since they have
h > to pay the points anyways?
h >
h > Richard
I think you'll find that if you allow 'normal' weaponry, some players
will react by concentrating on skills, since combat is 'covered,' others
will take advantage of it by picking up lots of levels with the available
weapons, and some will try to come up with thier own offensive abilities
for the sake of 'uniqueness' and end up wasting points. If you have
players build thier own equipment, then all of them will spend some
points on getting what they think they need. Some will, thus have
fewer skills, and others will buy something 'unique' like they wanted
anyway, and be about the same.
I think it helps to give characters some flexibility. If you want to
use perfectly ordinary equipment you should be able to, and focus on
skills and abilities. If you want some 'special' equipment or abilities
you should pay for them, though not quite as much if the 'special'
stuff accomplishes about the same thing as is generally available.
Star Hero had a 'Replaceable -1/2' limitation for any power that was
largely duplicated by existing equipment (I believe the example was
an alien with 2d RKAe 'laser beam eyes' in a game where 2d RKAe 'blasters'
were readily available. You probably won't be able to find Star
Hero, but here's a more detailed version of Replaceable:
Replaceable -1/4 to -1
Replaceable is a limitation given to powers that are
duplicated by easily obtainable, independent, foci. For instance
a warrior buying a sword in a fantasy game or a superhero who
wears an ordinary bullet-proof vest. In no case can a power be
both replaceable and independent.
A focus that is virtually identical to independent foci
commonly available in the campaign receives a -1 replaceable
limitation. Such a power must be bought almost exactly the same
way as the independent item it resembles. Its special effects
can differ only slightly. Advantages and limitations should vary
by only 1/4 each. And, the power should be bought to within 1
DC, 1 DEF, or about 5 Apts of the independent one.
A power that has different special effects and limitations
than the available independent foci that most closely duplicates
it can get a -1/2 Replaceable limitation. It must be of about the
same power level (+/-1 or 2 DC, DEF or about 10 or 15 Apts) as
similar independent foci and have no more than +1/2 more in
advantages.
Powers that are different from those commonly available as
independent foci but which still have similar effects and
employment and are not of a radically different power level can
receive a -1/4 Replaceable limitation.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 01:45:32 GMT
Subject: TUSV: Bibliography
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
h >
h > Maybe some of you folks on the list will know better than me...
h > How well would the "Planet of the Apes" moves and TV series fit in
h > the
h > index for TUSV? I remember for sure that there were wagons and such
h > (pretty standard far as these things go), but I'm trying to recall if
h > there
h > were any horse-drawn tanks or contraptions like that.
h > ---
It was a long time ago, but I seem to remember something like that
in the TV show.
However, you want wierd low-tech Vehicles, watch re-runs of
Wild! Wild! West.
Also, there was John Wayne movie called The War Wagon that had
an armored, gattling gun armed, stage coach. (of course you
spend the entire film asking 'Why don't they shoot the horses?")
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 18:53:29 -0800
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Nuclear (not Necular) Bombs - long
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Catching up on some old reading, I just perused the thread on
"Thermonecular Bombs." Here are some random observations, that may or
may not be relevant to your game, depending on your style.
The real-world information comes from various sources over the years. If
you can find it, I commend a wonderful monograph entitled, "The Effects
of Nuclear Weapons," published in 1963 by the Atomic Energy Commission,
the predecessor to the Department of Energy.
*Why do it?*
Putting in a terrorist group with a nuke can make for an exciting plot.
Of course, the bomb is never *supposed* to go off -- the heroes are
supposed to win, after all, but they *might* fail, and it is reasonable
for a GM to quantify what would happen if they did.
How far must the PCs go to save themselves when that counter hits zero?
How much destruction would there be? If a flying PC elects to fly the
bomb out to sea, how far does the PC have to take it, and what would be
the effects if he did? How far must he lob it to survive?
*Size matters.*
Terrorists are more likely to make use of subkiloton tactical devices
(such as obsolete 155mm atomic shells and Atomic Demolition Munitions)
than Strategic weapons. Thermonuclear devices are *always* strategic
weapons, because there is a lower limit of about 40kt on their size,
assuming that they are fission-triggered. A pinch-field-trigger (see
Larry Niven's Protector) would have no lower limit, but is beyond current
technology.
Estimates of the Hiroshima weapon have been recently downgraded to 12kt.
Most people tend to overestimate the yield of strategic warheads.
High-yield warheads were designed in the 1950s and early 60s to destroy
hardened military installations. The huge size was necessitated by the
fact that our CEP (circular error probable) was more than 1 kilometer for
missile launched weapons, and problematic for gravity bombs. Since any
nuke will produce 3000psi overpressure within 100m of ground zero, it is
better to produce many precisely-aimed 40kt explosions than one
multimegaton explosion, and this has been the trend since about 1965.
The standard warhead for a solid-fueled ICBM or SLBM ranges from 1
megaton (for a single warhead) down to as small as 40kt for the smallest
MIRV warheads in the inventory. A Trident missile allegedly will carry
twenty 40kt warheads, or a smaller number of larger warheads. The Titan
missile (liquid-fueled) carried a warhead of up to nine megatons, but was
retired around 1985 after a missile exploded in its silo. (A worker
dropped a wrench, puncturing the skin and rupturing a fuel line. The
warhead was hurled, intact, about a mile.)
The huge 20 megaton and larger weapons were all gravity bombs. These
weapons have been largely obsolete for about twenty years, since the
nuclear-tipped cruise missile became practical. I know of no published
material covering whether any B-1 or B-2 bombers are so equipped, but I
doubt it.
*Escaping or throwing nuclear bombs:*
The radius of destruction of a nuclear bomb goes up less-than-linearly in
the yield. This is obvious, if you think about it, since a larger
warhead will waste a lot of energy atomizing things that the smaller
warhead will merely pulverize, and pulverizing is usually more than
enough.
IIRC, the formula is
Pressure = K*F(h/W)*W/r^2.5
K*W^.4, where W is the warhead yield, F(h/W) is a function of the height
of burst relative to yield, and K is a constant of nature. Since, in
game terms, static overpressure is roughly equivalent to damage class,
for an optimum airburst, we get a given DC at
Radius = Constant * W^0.4
For a Hiroshima-class weapon at optimum airburst, destruction of
reinforced concrete buildings (about 6D6K AoE, I estimate) occurs up to
about 2500m (1250") from ground zero IIRC. This will kill many, but not
all, 250-pt characters, especially when combined with other effects. A
groundburst (which would be more likely for terrorists) would have this
effect over about half the radius (625").
For a subkiloton weapon, this would be reduced to 462", 231" for a
groundburst. This means that many PCs, seeing the counter nearing zero,
could escape to ranges at which their defenses would be relevant.
In fact, considering that bombs are dropped by real-world planes that
must then exit the area of destruction before the bomb explodes, this
should not even be that difficult. The standard method, developed by
Chuck Yeager, is to release the bomb while in a steep climb at an
altitude greater than the optimum airburst. The bomb is thus lobbed for
a considerable distance, while the plane completes an Immelman turn and
runs for home using afterburners. For planes that cannot do this, such
as the B-52D, the bomb must be dropped from near-maximum altitude, or the
plane must use a SRAM.
*EMP*
What is commonly referred to as Electromagnetic Pulse is probably
a combination of three effects. There is very little unclassified
research on this subject, so the following information is based on
articles in Scientific American and Jane's Defense Weekly in the early
1980's.
1) Prompt ionizing radiation from the blast can cause irreversable
transitions in doped semiconductors, thereby "frying" the active
components on which the circuits rely. For small ordinary nuclear
blasts, this effect is important only in areas of over 100psi
overpressure, which will destroy most devices outright.
2) A sufficiently high-yield burst will cause Compton scattering in the
ionosphere, particularly if the burst is high-altitude as well. This
will expose a wide area to X-rays and high-energy electrons.
3) When a conductor is exposed to ionizing radiation (such as X-rays), a
potential difference accumulates along it. This potential is
proportional to the length of the conductor and the intensity of the
radiation. Along a transmission line, the potential difference could be
thousands of volts, which would take out the power grid over large areas
and destroy any equipment hooked up to the grid without massive surge
protection.
IIRC, true EMP is a combination of effects 2 and 3. This
probably requires an ionospheric burst of 20 or 30 megatons.
*Neutron Bomb*
This is one of the most misunderstood weapons in history. If you want to
use the comic-book version in your campaign, fine. I only want people to
realize that they are implementing a parody of a real device.
The official term for the device is the "Enhanced Radiation Weapon,"
because it produces more *prompt* radiation than an ordinary nuclear
weapon of similar yield will. If dropped on a city, it will destroy both
life and property about as well as any other nuclear device of similar
yield; it was designed to solve a specific problem.
If Soviet tanks were to break through NATO defensive lines and threaten
German cities, the tanks would be too close to the cities to use ordinary
nuclear explosives. Destroying a tank requires about 300psi of static
overpressure, and a tank column would cover about a 2km-4km front. A
device that would produce that much overpressure over so wide an area
would easily destroy buildings (20 psi static) several miles away.
Moreover, tall buildings can be toppled by dynamic overpressure at even
greater ranges.
Enter the following thought: tanks contain sensitive equipment and human
beings that are vulnerable to prompt radiation. Since radiation is
absorbed by the atmosphere, prompt radiation falls off in intensity even
faster with radius than does blast. If a weapon could be devised to
produce more of its yield in the form of radiation, and less as blast,
then it could be used to defend a city without destroying the city, or to
defend troops without killing them.
This is, of course, the point that was picked up by our scientifically-
illiterate press, and twisted into a bomb that could be dropped on a city
and kill only the people. There were two flies in the ointment. One was
that the press's version was tailor-made for Anti-American propaganda:
"Here is the perfect capitalist weapon!" The second is that, although
the crews would be given a lethal dose of radiation, they would not die
for about three hours. Fighting a battle against an army that *knows* it
is going to die is not a pleasant prospect. Afterwards, Soviet reserve
crews could easily man the remaining tanks, most of which would not have
dangerous levels of residual radiation inside.
Again, the fictional version can make a good story, but some GMs may
prefer to attempt a writeup that is closer to the real thing.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 21:30:13 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Xcel Charcter Sheet
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> "Look, mentally I'm older than Lincoln, emotionally
> I'm six years old, physically I look like I'm in my
> twenties, my hormones are going top speed, and I'm
> something evolved from a slug evolved into something
> evolved from an ape. And YOU got the nerve to say
> YOU'RE confused?!?"
What is this quote from?
-Tim Gilberg
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 22:32:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Role Playing Militias
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
In my JLA campaign the KKK is heavily funded by GENOCIDE.
The biggest and beefiest of the bigots get to be agent trainees.
--
elliott
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 03:48:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Creating light
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > >
h > > The Peace Field: -5 lvls with OCV (25 pts), AE (+1), UAO (+1),
h > Active
h > > 100 pts. "I can't seem to concentrate on hitting him. I just don't
h > > feel like fighting."
h > >
h >
h > These negative levels are entirely inconsistent with the BBB rules,
h > even
h > if they did make it into a Hero product. Published Hero characters are
h > pretty poor adherents to the rules, sadly. I'd rather go with a
h > Suppress
h > vs. DEX or Suppress vs. Levels.
h >
I agree about the negative levels, but in this case, they're completely
unnesciary, since you can just make them + DCV levels instead with
the same effect. Acutually my group did this a while back. We called
it 'The A-Team Theme' when you played it, everyone got +8 DCV. (the
character was called the 'Conductor' all his powers had a specific
theme music to go with them)
___
* OFFLINE 1.58 * --------------------------------------------------
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 03:56:02 GMT
Subject: Area of Effect: Joined
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > Cold-snap can create AE fields of killing cold. They cost no
h > END to maintain, and once set up, can exist indefinitely on their own.
h > If he were to set up AE fields of killing cold that joined, would they
h > do the combined damage of the two fields, the higher of the two damage
h > rolls, or simply the same damage. Also, where the two 'cold' circles
h > joined, would it be 'colder'?
Presumably, if each one is set up at a diffent time, and doing it's own
damage, the higher roll would apply, so in a sense it might be slightly
'colder' where the circles overlap. But in general, the area is just
being extended and overlaps can be ignored.
h > Can you push an AE to be larger?
Sure.
h > Would an equal ammount of heat vs. cold field cancel each other out?
h > Tell me what you think.
h > --Jason
GM call. If the F/X are just right, maybe. Otherwise, you might get
frozen solid and then incenerated, or vice versa.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 03:59:04 GMT
X-To: herolist@october.com (herolist) h > I would also give it 50% or 75% Damage Reduction vs. Physical Attacks, h > Does Not Work if Struck Against a Surface. h > h > Flying insects (or other small flying creatures for that matter) don't h > have much inertia, so if an object strikes them they're quite likely h > bounce away unharmed. Try using a flyswatter to kill a fly in mid-air, h > rather than against a surface - it won't work. h >
Subject: Re: Growth
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
To: herolist@october.com (herolist)
h > I would also give it 50% or 75% Damage Reduction vs. Physical Attacks,
h > Does Not Work if Struck Against a Surface.
h >
h > Flying insects (or other small flying creatures for that matter) don't
h > have much inertia, so if an object strikes them they're quite likely
h > bounce away unharmed. Try using a flyswatter to kill a fly in mid-air,
h > rather than against a surface - it won't work.
h >
Don't ask me why, but when I was a kid I went to a lot of trouble doing
exactly that. And, yes, the flys did die. BTW, they're easier to hit
if you swing into they're flight path. :)
h > This is one of my favorite powers to throw onto Shrinking characters.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 04:08:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Essay: How do I? (lo
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h >
h > I know the book says otherwise, but I've never seen where "affects all
h > of target" would affect a crush -- it's definitely possible to squeeze
h > parts of a target" (increase in air pressure, for example, or ...
h > gravity). And losing BOTH grab and punch damage should be a little
h > than a -1/4 Limitation.
h >
I think the idea is it affects all parts of the target at once, and in
the same way. So you could move the target to the left, but crushing
the target would require moving the left side to the right, and the
right side to the left.... It's just semantics.
I think the reason it exists is just to simulate pre-4th Ed TK. Which
was 5pts/5 STR and couldn't be used to punch or squeeze (it also had
a limited range of 1 hex / Apts instead of 1/5).
h > In any case, I'd say the functionality of this power is enough to just
h > /not buy that limitation/ and call it part of SFX if you're not comfort
h > mucking with the Limitation.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 17 Nov 97 04:17:08 GMT
Subject: Nuclear (not Necular) Bo
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Thanks for the info. Expecially the Nuetron Bomb stuff. I've
tried to explain the tactics behind it so many times (not in
the list, but real life) and people never seemed to get it.
I did not know that it took so long to kill it's victims
though. I always thought it was more effective than that.
Nice to know that it was dropped ... er cancelled ...
for a practical reason too.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 20:46:59 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Villains
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> h > From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
> h > I was wondering... has anyone on the list written up Filipino
> h > heroes or villains, or know of where I could get information on
> h > myth or folklore? Seems I will be running a game or two for my friend
> h > his sister and maybe two others... and they're all Filipino, and I'm
> h > some ignorant white dude. I may set the game in the Philippines, but
> h > like to include some real life background flavor in the NPC
> h > Any help at all would be appreciated.
> h >
> h > - Jerry
>
> You're just some ignorant white guy, and you should set your game
> somewhere you're familliar with. Or at least somewhere that you
> and your players are equally unfamilliar with.
>
Wow. Now that's an incredably racist statement to make.
Here we have a guy who has found himself a group of players all of the same
ethnicity, but one
diferent from himself. In a show of good faith he has put out a call for help
in learning as much as he
can about his new players' culture.
I wish I could find more people willing to take that step.
It's the step I took when I was living in Korea. And I got comments like yours
from countless other americans I encountered. However every Korean I met was
absolutley flattered and amazed that I had
put forth so much effort to learn about them with no obvious reward or goal for
it.
I left that country with countless friends and experiences I will treasure
for the rest of my life.
And I left a lot of Koreans behind who could point to at least one American
with appreciation.
No. I'd whole heartedly encourage this guy to learn as much as he can. And
if he can impress his players with whatever inklings he learns, it will be well
worth it. It's been my experience that most people appreciate it when outsiders
try to learn their ways and understand them. Providing it's done in good faith
and friendship.
I just wish I knew something about the Philipines so that I could help this
guy.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 22:56:50 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Essay: How do I? (lo
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 13
At 04:08 AM 11/17/97 GMT, Opal wrote:
>I think the idea is it affects all parts of the target at once, and in
>the same way. So you could move the target to the left, but crushing
>the target would require moving the left side to the right, and the
>right side to the left.... It's just semantics.
Okay, I can buy this explanation. But IMO, such a drastic change should be
at least -1/2, not -1/4 -- "cannot punch" and "cannot squeeze" would be
worth -1/4 apiece. (*Sigh* back to the old HOMERULE.TXT ...)
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 22:56:52 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: FAQ?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 12
At 02:32 AM 11/17/97 -0500, Eric Pawtowski wrote:
>Where is the FAQ? I have a simple issue that has to be answered in
>it. (Essentially, if a character standing 5" from a wall takes
>10" of KB and hits said wall, does the character take 10d6 or 5d6
>damage?)
You take 10d6 damage, IF the combined DEF/BODY of the wall is 10 or
more.
If you hit a wall or other obstruction, you take 1d6 per inch of KB,
up to the DEF+BODY of the structure; if the DEF+BODY is less than the total
KB, you blow through the structure, subtracting the DEF+BODY from the
remaining KB.
So if the wall is DEF 2, BODY 2, your character will take 4d6 damage
and land one hex behind the wall. If the wall is DEF 4, BODY 4, you'll take
8d6 damage and land in a pile of rubble in the middle of the wall hex. If
the wall is DEF 8, BODY 8, you'll take the full 10d6 damage and stop in the
hex in front of the wall.
(Has anyone else wondered why KB damage isn't x"/3 to conform with
Move-Through and other collision/velocity damages?)
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 22:56:54 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Xcel Charcter Sheet
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 14
At 09:37 PM 11/16/97 +0000, David Cooper wrote:
> It's from a Japanese Anima, called Robotech
<Nitpick>
[1] I think you meant "anime", in which case you don't have to put the
nation of origin in front of it. There is no Canadian or German anime to the
best of my knowledge. :]
[2] "Robotech" isn't precisely Japanese -- much like Saban chopped up and
redubbed a number of 'sentai' shows to create =Mighty Morphin' Power
Rangers=, and Sandy Frank hacked up "Gatchaman" to give us =Battle of the
Planets=, Carl Macek strung three unrelated anime series (Macross, Southern
Cross, and Mospeada) together and redubbed them to create a unified plot,
then called the entire product "Robotech". (The quote, incidentally, I'm
guessing comes from the third portion).
Whether products like Robotech, including "Battle of the Planets" (which
Saban recently redid under the name "Eagle Riders"), and the short-lived
"Technoman", still count as 'anime' is a question I'll leave to someone else. :/
</Nitpick>
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
From: Eric Pawtowski <epawtows@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu>
Subject: FAQ?
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 02:32:45 -0500 (EST)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
Where is the FAQ? I have a simple issue that has to be answered in
it. (Essentially, if a character standing 5" from a wall takes
10" of KB and hits said wall, does the character take 10d6 or 5d6
damage?)
Eric
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Acronyms
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 01:01:21 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sunday, November 16, 1997 5:52 PM, Opal wrote:
<snip>
>
>Or maybe I just like Daleks.
>
>ex-ter-min-ate! Ex-Ter-Min-Ate! EX-TER-MIN-ATE!
>
Daleks. The only villains ever created with the Psych Lim: Must say
exterminate a number of times proportional to the number of points
that living targets are based on before attacking.
Thus, a random normal gets maybe one "Exterminate" tops, soldiers get
two or three, and the Doctor gets six before someone says, "Wait! We
want the Doctor alive!"
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: FAQ?
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 01:16:51 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sunday, November 16, 1997 10:57 PM, Eric Pawtowski wrote:
>Where is the FAQ? I have a simple issue that has to be answered in
>it. (Essentially, if a character standing 5" from a wall takes
>10" of KB and hits said wall, does the character take 10d6 or 5d6
>damage?)
10d6. If hit with 10" knockback, and the wall is 9" away, he would
still take 10d6.
I'll email you the FAQ.
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Villains
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 01:21:52 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sunday, November 16, 1997 8:14 PM, Rook wrote:
<snip>
>
> Wow. Now that's an incredably racist statement to make.
>
>Here we have a guy who has found himself a group of players all of
the same
>ethnicity, but one
>diferent from himself. In a show of good faith he has put out a call
for help
>in learning as much as he
>can about his new players' culture.
> I wish I could find more people willing to take that step.
<snip>
I agree with everything you say, except the very first comment. The
_original_ poster referred to _himself_ as an "ignorant white dude".
The other poster was merely using the same term, albeit misquoted. I
don't believe there was any racist intent, the poster was simply
trying to prevent the person from embarrassing themselves.
I have seen GMs thoroughly embarrassed by attempting to do what the
original poster suggested, and in one case it wrecked the game. I
suspect that is an experience the second poster has had as well, and
is simply recommending that he not repeat it. No racism was involved.
Filksinger
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 02:43:24 -0700
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
Subject: Re: Screaming Really Loud
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 4
>
> h > I'm trying to figure out how to implement two fairly minor powers
> h > in an affordable way.
> h >
> h > 1. Being able to scream really loud: loud enough to be heard from
> h > miles around. Does no damage, just loud. (and obnoxious, I guess)
I haven't yet seen a suggestion for the way the groups around here do
this....
Images (details to follow). The rationale behind our interpertation;
images area defines the area of the image, not the area of those that
can percieve it. Those outside the image still sense it... ie someone
has a huge area of images, and creates the image of a skyscraper then
anyone who could normally see the skyscraper can see the image whether
they are in the 'area' of the images or not.
Now for a loud scream you buy images, base size (ie the sound is coming
from one hex) and you buy up the per roll, with the modifier _not_ to
disbelieve but to sense the thing in the first place (same cost). I have
a character with a loudspeaker in his supersuit and he has +6 to per
rolls IE when he uses the loudspeaker everyone has +6 to hearing
perception to hear what he is saying.
A quick glance at the optional hearing perception roll modifiers (page
138 HSR) shows that a +6 is the equivilant of a grenade going off. That
is usually enough for most people.
A linked presence attack is great for the kiai shock screamer types too.
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"Rook\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 97 11:43:45
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Villains
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 5
On Sun, 16 Nov 1997 20:46:59 -0800, Rook wrote:
>> h > From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
>> h > I was wondering... has anyone on the list written up Filipino
>> h > heroes or villains, or know of where I could get information on
>> h > myth or folklore? Seems I will be running a game or two for my friend
>> h > his sister and maybe two others... and they're all Filipino, and I'm
>> h > some ignorant white dude. I may set the game in the Philippines, but
>> h > like to include some real life background flavor in the NPC
>> h > Any help at all would be appreciated.
>> h >
>> h > - Jerry
>>
>> You're just some ignorant white guy, and you should set your game
>> somewhere you're familliar with. Or at least somewhere that you
>> and your players are equally unfamilliar with.
>>
>
> Wow. Now that's an incredably racist statement to make.
<snip>
Hear hear!
I do hope that when you go abroad to do business, you attempt to fit in
with their society - you'll do far better that way than by acting the
arrogant American
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 07:42:23 -0500 (EST)
X-To: hero-l@october.com
Subject: Re: TUSV: vehicles withi
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: jcs1.jcstate.edu ip 204.117.72.52
X-Smtp-Mail-From: RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu
X-Vms-To: IN%"hero-l@october.com"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 7
What's the Missile Limitation from Star Hero like?
What's the Slow Missile Limitation from Robot Warriors like?
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 07:46:09 -0500 (EST)
X-To: hero-l@october.com
Subject: Re: TUSV (Vechiles/Weapo
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: jcs1.jcstate.edu ip 204.117.72.52
X-Smtp-Mail-From: RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu
X-Vms-To: IN%"hero-l@october.com"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 6
I wasn't kidding.
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 05:29:13 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect: Joined circles
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 9
At 11:02 AM 11/16/97 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> Can you push an AE to be larger?
>
> Again, it depends on the SFX. On the whole, though, I'd tend to say no,
>though there are some cases where I'd increase the Area Effect in
>proportion to the amount that the Power was Pushed.
After seeing some other folks' responses to this, I'm changing my
thoughts. I'd say that you can either Push a Power with certain
Advantages, or without, as defined in cooperation with the GM when the
Power is bought. Thus, an AE EB could either be pushed 2d6 without an
increase in area, or 1d6 with an increase (determined, like I said, when
the Power is bought).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 05:35:56 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Lightning Reflexes!!!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
At 07:31 PM 11/16/97 +0000, Chris Brecken wrote:
>This may sound stupid, but where did this power/advantage come from, and
>whats the cost etc etc...
It originally appeared in An Eye For An Eye, and was reprinted in a
sidebar in The Ultimate Mentalist.
Lightning reflexes costs 3 points for +2 DEX for purposes of combat
order, or 1 point for +1 DEX for purposes of combat order for one action
only.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 05:46:50 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: TUSV: vehicles withi
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 10
At 12:45 AM 11/17/97 GMT, Opal wrote:
>> A vehicle may own another vehicle if the second vehicle is tied
>> to the first one. An elevator, a *dedicated* carrier, or a
>> "guided missile" weapon are three examples. The shuttles would gener
>
>I absolutely dispise the guided-missle-bought-bought-as-a-vehicle thing.
>It's an attack, it should be bought as an attack. If it's guided, it
>can have NRM, or extra OCV, and/or something like the Missle limitation
>out of Star Hero or Slow missle out of Robot Warriors.
That's my general feeling, though there are occasional cases where a
guided missile is better bought as a vehicle. For example, what you
describe would miss once and then be gone. If bought as a sub-vehicle, it
could miss the target the first time out and then turn around for another
try. It's much easier to do it that way than to try to develop some new
Advantage and then determine stuff like flight speed and turn mode.
>> bought separately (unless the GM decided that they're close enough to
>> a part of the main vehicle that they can be bought as sub-vehicles).
>
>I see, so a shuttle with Flight as it's only movement power would be
>very dependent on the mothership with FTL, if it's a campaign where
>star-hopping is the major focus. But if characters made only very
>infrequent interplanetary trips, it would be bought sepparately.
That's it precisely. (Though in the latter case, it might be
permissible to have the shuttles get together to buy the mothership.)
>>>Back in Champions III they had a process called 'breaking down
>>>you could do something simillar here. Something like:
>> [example snipped]
>>>Buying followers is simpler in the 4th ed, the Camps III bit was
>>>really messy. :)
>
>> I thought about reviving this, but for this very reason decided not to
>> (especially since one of the Sample Campaign Settings involves owning
>> scads of vehicles).
>
>The problem is that if you don't do something like that, it's
>enormously expensive to have a few vehicles of different point levels
>compared to having a huge fleet of high-powered vehicles.
>
>And, adapted to 4th ed, it's not that messy, beacuse the math is
>much simpler (that's what I meant to say, anyway).
Based on this argument, I'll give it some serious consideration.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 17 Nov 97 14:28:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Villains
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!michael.adams
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 11
I doubt Opals comments are racist. More like from experiance. Most DM/GMs are
not experianced enough to do another culture. Basically start with the familiar
and work to the different. After all in any culture there is alot of social
rules that most non-native people are totally confused by, and often end up
insulting someone (unless the locals are willing enough to relaize that you are
ignorant and forgive and work with you, after all racism goes both way).
First maybe the GM should play in a cultural setting closer to his own, then
work it towards the one his players will understand. Especially since most
rules and supplements are often eurocentrical (not as much as it once was).
I give the GM who wants to play for his players cultural benefit my best,
he/she has her/his work cut out and it will be interesting, but many DM/GMs
just do not h ave the experiance to do it, but well worth the try.
Mike Adams
try spending 6 years in an Eskimo town/village.
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 10:19:35 -0500
From: Bruce Crow <BCROW@cnmc.org>
Subject: Filipino Heroes/Villains/Folklore -Reply
Content-Disposition: inline
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 15
Michael Adams said:
snip
>Remember many Filopinos are Catholic, though some are Muslim. Also
>thier basic
>racial/cultural roots are Malay. So if you mix Spanish Catholic, some
>psuedo-Buddhist, with Muslim and like you might get an idea.
snip
Many of the filipino friends I have met in my asian wanderings have also
been descendants of aztec slaves brought from mexico by the spanish
and liguistically Tagolag has many Aztec words. I also read a figure that
said that as many as 30% of filipinos have ethnic chinese origins too. Of
all the foreign cultures, filipino is not the easiest with which to start.
snip
>First maybe the GM should play in a cultural setting closer to his own,
>then
>work it towards the one his players will understand. Especially since
>most
>rules and supplements are often eurocentrical.
snip
I agree. But there are many GMs who do a decent job portraying cultures
other than their own. It is just far more work than for which most people
have time. As if GMs aren't busy enough as it is. Doing it poorly is worse
than not doing it at all, especially if you're doing it for people familiar with
culture.
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 10:07:57 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: FAQ?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 17
> Where is the FAQ? I have a simple issue that has to be answered in
> it. (Essentially, if a character standing 5" from a wall takes
> 10" of KB and hits said wall, does the character take 10d6 or 5d6
> damage?)
So simple it's not in the FAQ. But that doesn't stop many GMs I
know from messing this ruling up.
You take your total KB in damage when hitting a solid upright
surface, like a wall, up to the def and bod total of said surface. If
you go your whole KB distance and land on the ground, you take your total
KB/2 in damage.
So in the above example, the damage would be 10d6, unless of
course that wall has less than 10 in def+bod.
-Tim Gilberg
X-Sender: champion@mailhost.cyberhighway.net
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 08:57:58 -0800
From: Jim Dickinson <champion@cyberhighway.net>
Subject: Re: FAQ?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 18
At 02:32 AM 11/17/97 -0500, Eric Pawtowski wrote:
>Where is the FAQ? I have a simple issue that has to be answered in
>it. (Essentially, if a character standing 5" from a wall takes
>10" of KB and hits said wall, does the character take 10d6 or 5d6
>damage?)
That would depend on the DEF and BOD of the wall. If the wall is only 2/2,
then he would take 4D6 and go through the wall an inch. If the wall was a
5/5 wall, then he would take 10d6 and break the wall.
(This is from memory...I'm sure if it's wrong, someone will correct me.)
Jim
_________________________________________________________________
Jim Dickinson -=- Portland. OR USA -=- champion@cyberhighway.net
WWW Role-Playing Resource:
Castle Game Knight: http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/cgk
Join the Circle of HEROs: http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jd/coh
-----------------------------------------------------------------
X-Originating-IP: [206.88.2.1]
From: "Todd Hanson" <badtodd@hotmail.com>
Subject: fantasy hero campaign help
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:03:56 CST
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 19
Well, this weekend's gaming ended with me being voted to begin running
Fantasy Hero (lucky me). My few experiences with Fantasy Hero have not
been good ones (mostly due to a few powergamers who insisted on building
campaign-imbalancing characters - I wasnt the GM so I had no control).
Anyway, my reason for posting: I would like to ask some help from any
experienced Fantasy Hero GMs out there.
My specific questions:
1. Do you allow martial arts? If so, do you allow them to be used with
weapons?
2. What magic system do you use? I'm leaning towards the one they use
in the books (with the colleges), but I'm not real thrilled with some of
the limitations that they include (especially the 'must have x points in
the college')
3. What kind of damage/defenses should these guys be throwing around?
I'll be starting with (probably) 150 pt characters (is that too high?)
4. Do you restrict adjustment powers? a couple of dice of
aid/drain/transfer in a fantasy campaign (where power defense will be
next to non-existant) seems to be VERY overpowered.
5. Are there any limitations you encourage/disallow on magic?
6. What do you do about races? I don't like the way the packages in the
book do them, especially the characteristic maxima part and some of the
hokey psych lims. I'm thinking about rewriting them to not include the
hokey psych lims (hates goblins? This seems more like a role playing
issue than a psych lim), and to just buy the extra stats outright - a
dwarf will start with a 13 strenght instead of a 10. If he wants to buy
it above 20, he pays double just like everyone else. (the way the
packages are NOW, he is paying the extra pts to go to 23 whether he does
it or not)
7. Do you do anything with gods? I'm thinking about using the 'Faiths
and Avatars' book for AD&D (one of the best books they ever put out). If
a PC wants to play a religous based character, I'll write up the granted
powers and make them part of a package. Is this more trouble than its
worth?
Any help would be VERY much appreciated. In fact, if anybody would like
to discuss this further off-list, please email me at badtodd@dacmail.net
(not the address on this message - I only send email from that address)
Thanks!
Todd
-------------------------------------------------------
Please note that I only SEND from this address - I do
not receive email at this address. Please reply to me
at badtodd@dacmail.net :) thanks!
-------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:37:09 -0500
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: fantasy hero campaign help
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 20
> 1. Do you allow martial arts? If so, do you allow them to be used with
> weapons?
In general, no. The world I run most often had one culture that could use
Martial Arts, but that culture had some drawbacks that compensated (like not
using weapons for the most part). However, even that had problems; at this
point, I would either use Skill levels or an alternate cost system for martial
arts that I devised but haven't used yet.
> 2. What magic system do you use? I'm leaning towards the one they use
> in the books (with the colleges), but I'm not real thrilled with some of
> the limitations that they include (especially the 'must have x points in
> the college')
I, like many others, just plain don't like the system in the books. Apart from
the rules restrictions, I feel that the book system has no consistency, and
thus is an excellent way to ruin any atmosphere you might try to create in
your game.
I use a magic system based tightly on the world, which includes a couple
different types of mages (VPPs where you must buy a KS for each spell; buy
each spell seperately with no framework; and other, sneakier methods :-).
> 3. What kind of damage/defenses should these guys be throwing around?
Defenses should be low low low. 8 PD (not armor, just PD) is amazingly useful,
and high DEF armor is very effective as well. On the other hand, anyone who's
willing to take the penalties can get whatever armor your society
provides. The same goes for weapons.
This means that you have to /carefully/ watch defense magic; a 15/15 Force
Field is godlike, and should probably not be allowed.
As guidelines, I'd say 2.5d6K should probably be the upper limit. Season to
taste.
> I'll be starting with (probably) 150 pt characters (is that too high?)
IMO it's too high, but I like low fantasy. For low fantasy, I'd try 50 +
25. One thing to watch for with 75 + 75 is that you rapidly run out of disads
(since few fantasy characters have Susceptibilities and the like). I'd
consider raising the category limit from 25 to 50.
> 4. Do you restrict adjustment powers? a couple of dice of
> aid/drain/transfer in a fantasy campaign (where power defense will be
> next to non-existant) seems to be VERY overpowered.
I closely restrict all powers, but yes, adjustment powers need to be watched.
> 5. Are there any limitations you encourage/disallow on magic?
Too many to mention, and it all depends on what you want to do with your
campaign world. In general, consider what the effects of a given spell/ability
would have on society (example: if a 1d6 RKA fire spell is easy and reliable,
blacksmiths go out of business; if flight is easy and reliable, mages towers
lose their doors, etc.).
> 6. What do you do about races? I don't like the way the packages in the
> book do them, especially the characteristic maxima part
I keep the cost breakpoints for maxima the same for all races, but change the
point at which GM permission is required. Thus, the big strong race might be
able to go to STR 23 without GM permission (still paying 16 points), while at
the same time they might require permission for INT 18. That way there's no
question of cost imbalance.
> and some of the
> hokey psych lims. I'm thinking about rewriting them to not include the
> hokey psych lims (hates goblins? This seems more like a role playing
> issue than a psych lim), and to just buy the extra stats outright - a
I give the player a breakdown on what the race and its culture are like, and
let them (within limits) take it from there.
> 7. Do you do anything with gods? I'm thinking about using the 'Faiths
> and Avatars' book for AD&D (one of the best books they ever put out). If
> a PC wants to play a religous based character, I'll write up the granted
> powers and make them part of a package. Is this more trouble than its
> worth?
In order to preserve the concept of faith, gods don't play a direct role in my
world.
There are a bunch of other issues that leap to mind, and I feel like
typing. :-)
If you are playing with a bunch of hardened Champs players, get ready for
transition difficulties. Most Champs games let players build whatever they
want; in a fantasy game, the GM has to exercise a lot more control if he wants
to create a consistent atmosphere for the game. I even go so far as to require
players to commit to a race (with minimal information on that race) before
I'll show them the details of what the race is like.
I'd suggest a "dream sequence" sample combat before you start in earnest, so
that everyone gets a better idea of the differences between heroic and
superheroic combat.
I would use hit locations, impairing/disabling, and encumbrance. I wouldn't
use Bleeding. I have a bunch of house rules (including an alternate way to do
encumbrance) at http://oasis.ot.com/~myrrh/hero.html which you might want to
look at.
One thing to watch out for is high stats. Especially in a 150 pt game, it's
very easy for a player to buy lots of 18s and 20s and become a pain in the
neck. :-)
Hope this helps,
Geoff Speare
(If you want to talk more in private, send to geoff@omg.org, although this
seems a fine topic for general list discussion.)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:43:33 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Power questions...
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 21
Captain Pureheart has an ability that lets him see through illusions.
His True Sight would be purchased as ?
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:46:23 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Questionable powers...
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 23
How do simulate a hero with the power of Animate Matter (i.e. he
can create golems out of thin air from readily available materials, like
giant boulders... or he could animate a car...). The effects are temporary.
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:56:45 -0500
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: Power questions...
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 22
> Captain Pureheart has an ability that lets him see through illusions.
> His True Sight would be purchased as ?
Enhanced Senses?
Geoff Speare
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:00:19 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: The Abyss
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 24
The Abyss is a villain who can summon disgusting, decaying hands
out of cracks which form underneath her opponents. The arms grow stronger
as the opponent's life force wanes.
I was thinking of modeling this as an Entangle (takes no damage
from attack, no 'walls' can be made with entangle, Area of Effect: Radius,
Indirect, Personal Immunity, Uncontrolled, Concentration (1/2 DCV, activation
only), Gestures, Limited Power: Only works from the ground)...
...how do I model the 'life force wanes, arms get stronger' part?
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 11:30:18 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: fantasy hero campaign help
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 28
all my Fantasy Hero stuff is posted on my web page, including the magic
system, what martial arts I allow, skills, weapons, and so forth. Its all
in Word format, and zipped up.
In general, I have players start at 100 points, 150 is Conan level
characters, I like the guys to be more simple at first. I dont allow just
ANY martial arts, only the maneuvers and packages I create. Most of them
are simply fighting styles and local training, very little is actual
'martial arts'.
and anything over 6DC is high in my opinion, any defenses over 8 resistant
are extreme. This keeps the fear of normal people alive, even that loser
peasant can kill you if he gets lucky that way. The magic system I use is
somewhat complex, but really works well once you are used to it.
For races, I made them all balance out to 0 points with their inherent
disads, and didnt count the package against PC points... and then made the
world predominantly human (so getting armor for your guy or finding anything
that fits is unlikely, plus the world thinks other races are wierd).
Religious stuff I didnt use at ALL in my first game, and in the second I
made it very simple, one diety, with several different temples, and each one
had its own rituals and powers that you could access. The priests werent in
control of the pool, but could request things... and sometimes they get
nothing at all.
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:30:45 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Xcel Charcter Sheet
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 9
At 11:28 PM 11/17/97 -0500, Tokyo Mark wrote:
>Depends on how technical you want to get.:) The commonly accepted use of
>anime in the US is for Japanese animation. But in Japan anything animated
>is anime. My Japanese teacher already corrected one of my speaches to
>remind me that if I like Japanese animation and want to be clear I need to
>say Japanese anime (nihon no anime).
Ah, but we weren't speaking Japanese, were we?
(Ha! I've never been out-semanticed! :] Look out, sonny! ;])
"Japanese sashimi", "German autobahn", "Russian perestroika", etc. are all
redundant terms in this fashion. We borrow the latter term without
forgetting its country of origin, and therefore the corresponding national
adjective is not needed; the shift in language acts in its stead.
Ergo, "anime" = "Japanese (for) animation" = "Japanese animation".
(There is an exception to this, that being Latin: when one shifts
unexpectedly to a Latin phrase, all that is implied is that the speaker is
pretentious. ;] )
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
From: Bill Burcham <bburcham@summitelectric.com>
Subject: FW: Power questions...
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:32:28 -0700
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 26
How about a Detect Illusion, Sense, Ranged, and Discriminatory (to see
what is reality behind the illusion).
============
Bill Burcham (bburcham@summitelectric.com)
Network/Systems Administrator
SUMMIT Electric Supply
Hear-Forget, See-Learn, Do-Understand
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Speare [SMTP:geoff@omg.org]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 1997 11:57 AM
To: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Power questions...
> Captain Pureheart has an ability that lets him see
through illusions.
> His True Sight would be purchased as ?
Enhanced Senses?
Geoff Speare
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Questionable powers...
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 17 Nov 1997 14:33:37 -0500
Lines: 27
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 25
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "AAM" == ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu> writes:
AAM> How do simulate a hero with the power of Animate Matter (i.e. he
AAM> can create golems out of thin air from readily available materials,
AAM> like giant boulders... or he could animate a car...). The effects
AAM> are temporary.
For the umpteenth time, define the special effects first, then pick powers
that simulate those effects.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNHCcBp6VRH7BJMxHAQFSFAP+NCgO7EhlfaRd+apV+D5c4blgqRVOTXYw
1ivvJdmaghqcfIENtyGA0yPA+FvNLdKhLxdY2laWvsh38r2LLMSwhzItyB5Omau2
0m8gUK8+WYr+Qq0CtXCKKARojuTSDwxs07OS5BMHe5FlpLYzvP4fxaZZlYZ81aKQ
YBn6VNrZjyE=
=5zep
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 11:39:32 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: fantasy hero campaign help
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 30
Todd Hanson wrote:
> Well, this weekend's gaming ended with me being voted to begin running
> Fantasy Hero (lucky me). My few experiences with Fantasy Hero have not
> been good ones (mostly due to a few powergamers who insisted on building
> campaign-imbalancing characters - I wasnt the GM so I had no control).
>
> Anyway, my reason for posting: I would like to ask some help from any
> experienced Fantasy Hero GMs out there.
>
> My specific questions:
>
> 1. Do you allow martial arts? If so, do you allow them to be used with
> weapons?
>
I do. But if you think you may have powergamers; don't. If you do allow
it, allowit with weapons and make the styles available yourself. Build up a
fencing style, a staff-combat
style, and a few others proper for the setting you choose.
Don't allow combat levels over 3. You can break this rule once you're
more comfortable with the
game, but keep it for now. More than 3 levels will unbalance a character who
lacks some other offsetting weakpoint.
> 2. What magic system do you use? I'm leaning towards the one they use
> in the books (with the colleges), but I'm not real thrilled with some of
> the limitations that they include (especially the 'must have x points in
> the college')
>
I've never used the spells in the books.I use a system whereby all mages
had VPP's with powers built using a combination of skills. But I DON'T
Recommend you do that until you are VERY familiar with balancing a FH game.
So what do I recommend for a newcommer?
First, give them all a 5 point VPP, no more or less. Call this their cantrip
and tweaking ability.
Then let them design spells on their own. Set power limits as you would for
a champions game.
I think no powers over 30 active points works fine for a starter game.
This limits attacks to 6d6 EB or
2d6 KA. About the worst a player with a non magical weapon might do. If you
feel uncomfortable there,
cut it to 25. Don't cut it to less than that or your mages will be too weak
in comparision to the your non-mages.
Make each player who wishes to play a mage design a magic system for
that mage, plus at least a page of info on how and why that system is the
way it is.
I find if I make a player rationalize it into an essay; they're less
likely to abuse it.
> 3. What kind of damage/defenses should these guys be throwing around?
> I'll be starting with (probably) 150 pt characters (is that too high?)
>
150 is ideal. 75 points + 75 diads. Les than this encourages shallow 2D
combat monsters.More than this may be hard to deal with for a new GM.
> 4. Do you restrict adjustment powers? a couple of dice of
> aid/drain/transfer in a fantasy campaign (where power defense will be
> next to non-existant) seems to be VERY overpowered.
>
No. Just stick them to the same 30 active point limit. That will cut
it's power enough in mostcases.
> 5. Are there any limitations you encourage/disallow on magic?
>
No. But don't let in any Extra Dimensional movement usable against
others attacks. Most powerful PCI ever saw was built on 120 points. He had
just enough defense to survive one round of being hit, then
an extradimensional movement power to move outside of time...
> 6. What do you do about races? I don't like the way the packages in the
> book do them, especially the characteristic maxima part and some of the
> hokey psych lims. I'm thinking about rewriting them to not include the
> hokey psych lims (hates goblins? This seems more like a role playing
> issue than a psych lim), and to just buy the extra stats outright - a
> dwarf will start with a 13 strenght instead of a 10. If he wants to buy
> it above 20, he pays double just like everyone else. (the way the
> packages are NOW, he is paying the extra pts to go to 23 whether he does
> it or not)
>
On the psych lim issue. Keep in mind that the racial and cultural
packages are seperate. An Elf raised by Dwarves would have the elf racial,
but dwarf cultural. Rewrite the cultural ones to fit your fantasy world.
Don't rewrite the racial unless you think your players can handle something
called and elf that doesn't resemble what they ussually think of when they
think elf.
Also keep in mind that the disads in a package deal reduce the package
deals cost, not add to the total disads a player has. There are difering
views on this ruling, but unless you choose it that way (which is the way
heromaker does it) it becomes restrictive to play a non-human.
I tend to agree with you on the Stats issue.
> 7. Do you do anything with gods? I'm thinking about using the 'Faiths
> and Avatars' book for AD&D (one of the best books they ever put out). If
> a PC wants to play a religous based character, I'll write up the granted
> powers and make them part of a package. Is this more trouble than its
> worth?
>
I always do Clerics as a VPP.write it up like this:
VPP, no choice on powers selection.
Cleric prays to her faith and gets whatever the gods feel like giving.
Now, that's from the players point of view. From you point of view, have a
list of likely things that they will get depending on how faithful they are,
and what they need.
Keep in mind my 30 active point limit guide.
The VPP should be:
30 point pool, no choice of how powers change (-1/2), skill roll (-0, as is
default setting on VPP), side Effect: Unknowingly gets a spell that is
harmful to current needs as next spell cast. (-1/2), restricted type of
powers: only those spells fitting the nature of Clerics Diety (-1/2).
That's 36 points. Leaving the Cleric with 114 points for skills/stats.
45-70 of which will go to stats.
Other guidelines:
Force the players to spend at least 20 points on 'background'
non-combat/adventuring stuff.
Set up stat guidlines as per page 35 of FH.
Don't worry about the detailed math of a power made from a VPP, just make
sure it's cheap enough to fit in. Getting detailed will only slow you down.
Make everyone take at least one package deal. Even if it's a custom built
one.
Provide as much setting info as possible BEFORE character creation. This
will encourage more role-play oriented PC's and less roll-play oriented
ones.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 11:45:09 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Questionable powers...
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 27
> How do simulate a hero with the power of Animate Matter (i.e. he
> can create golems out of thin air from readily available materials, like
> giant boulders... or he could animate a car...). The effects are temporary.
Special effect on summoning, follower, or even telekinisis, EB, Force Wall,
etc...
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"champ-l@omg.org\" <champ-l@omg.org&>
\"Todd Hanson\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 97 19:45:37
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: fantasy hero campaign help
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:03:56 CST, Todd Hanson wrote:
>Well, this weekend's gaming ended with me being voted to begin running
>Fantasy Hero (lucky me). My few experiences with Fantasy Hero have not
>been good ones (mostly due to a few powergamers who insisted on building
>campaign-imbalancing characters - I wasnt the GM so I had no control).
>
>Anyway, my reason for posting: I would like to ask some help from any
>experienced Fantasy Hero GMs out there.
>
>My specific questions:
>
>1. Do you allow martial arts? If so, do you allow them to be used with
>weapons?
If running a European campaign, VERY restricted.
>2. What magic system do you use? I'm leaning towards the one they use
>in the books (with the colleges), but I'm not real thrilled with some of
>the limitations that they include (especially the 'must have x points in
>the college')
I prefer a Vancian VPP with seperate KS:Particular Style of Magic (eg
KS Ice Magic 18-) for mages. This allows the mage to change spells,
which is very important.
For priest types, I use a VPP where all powers are controlled by the
power concerned, and the petitioner must make a roll (one skill per
deity).
>3. What kind of damage/defenses should these guys be throwing around?
>I'll be starting with (probably) 150 pt characters (is that too high?)
If they're going to be Kights, then DEF 8 is appropriate, but a PD of 6
is ok.
>4. Do you restrict adjustment powers? a couple of dice of
>aid/drain/transfer in a fantasy campaign (where power defense will be
>next to non-existant) seems to be VERY overpowered.
Power Defense is very appropriate for Holy Warriors.
>5. Are there any limitations you encourage/disallow on magic?
Foci, incantations, gestures for a Vancian system. Side effects are
fun.
>6. What do you do about races? I don't like the way the packages in the
>book do them, especially the characteristic maxima part and some of the
>hokey psych lims. I'm thinking about rewriting them to not include the
>hokey psych lims (hates goblins? This seems more like a role playing
>issue than a psych lim), and to just buy the extra stats outright - a
>dwarf will start with a 13 strenght instead of a 10. If he wants to buy
>it above 20, he pays double just like everyone else. (the way the
>packages are NOW, he is paying the extra pts to go to 23 whether he does
>it or not)
Agreed.
>7. Do you do anything with gods? I'm thinking about using the 'Faiths
>and Avatars' book for AD&D (one of the best books they ever put out). If
>a PC wants to play a religous based character, I'll write up the granted
>powers and make them part of a package. Is this more trouble than its
>worth?
Priests in my last campaign were rather different. They took their
powers from a *pantheon*, and within that pantheon had a patron. There
were no 'granted powers', but requests for particular miracles got
bonuses (eg asking the goddess of healing to cure a wound) or penalties
as apropriate.
>Any help would be VERY much appreciated. In fact, if anybody would like
>to discuss this further off-list, please email me at badtodd@dacmail.net
>(not the address on this message - I only send email from that address)
Don't try mailing me directly from hotmail - I've had so much spam from
there that anything from hotmail.com is automatically deleted.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 11:45:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Power questions...
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 31
ALONE AT MIDNIGHT writes:
> Captain Pureheart has an ability that lets him see through illusions.
> His True Sight would be purchased as ?
>
This depends on what 'illusions' are. In general, this would be one of:
+perception, enhanced senses, or mental defense.
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 11:46:18 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
CC: hero-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: The Abyss
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 29
ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> The Abyss is a villain who can summon disgusting, decaying hands
> out of cracks which form underneath her opponents. The arms grow stronger
> as the opponent's life force wanes.
> I was thinking of modeling this as an Entangle (takes no damage
> from attack, no 'walls' can be made with entangle, Area of Effect: Radius,
> Indirect, Personal Immunity, Uncontrolled, Concentration (1/2 DCV, activation
> only), Gestures, Limited Power: Only works from the ground)...
> ...how do I model the 'life force wanes, arms get stronger' part?
Transfer from body into the entangle.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:49:44 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Apologia
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 11
Apologies to the list -- the last message (Re: Xcel Charcter Sheet) I posted
was meant as a private reply (I doubt the list really cares to hear me
quibble amateur linguistics :/). My mailer tacked the champs-l address in
both the To: and CC: fields, and I'd forgotten to check both. Frack.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:03:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: The Abyss
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 32
On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> The Abyss is a villain who can summon disgusting, decaying hands
> out of cracks which form underneath her opponents. The arms grow stronger
> as the opponent's life force wanes.
> I was thinking of modeling this as an Entangle (takes no damage
> from attack, no 'walls' can be made with entangle, Area of Effect: Radius,
> Indirect, Personal Immunity, Uncontrolled, Concentration (1/2 DCV, activation
> only), Gestures, Limited Power: Only works from the ground)...
> ...how do I model the 'life force wanes, arms get stronger' part?
>
BODY Transfer into STR.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: FW: Power questions...
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 17 Nov 1997 15:05:29 -0500
Lines: 33
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 33
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "BB" == Bill Burcham <bburcham@summitelectric.com> writes:
BB> How about a Detect Illusion, Sense, Ranged, and Discriminatory (to see
BB> what is reality behind the illusion).
Um, won't work. That will detect the illusion, not what the illusion is
masking, even with discriminatory.
So it is time to back up and define "illusion". Once you do that, the
"defense", what is used to see through the illusion, should be readilly
apparant.
I am leaning towards a few plusses to sight perception rolls, as per
Geoff's comment, based on the assumption that the "illusion" is created
with Images.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNHCjhZ6VRH7BJMxHAQFo3AP9Gx/ZNNu++PieJ4twzCSxn/reBCJbhC5c
GPs8sp2PVbiwlfSQ1fTw0ujA8hkTmYbE9cRltqb9kqZzc3T2xlN76EXcj2H3icy3
uZ3jcSQqdeCUDHNrJj0wCTrvTlvxQBYftfeGjHPvIXUzSXImfgFbwLafulicmkF2
x6l7kb9mwic=
=Vl8H
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:11:17 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Power questions...
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 35
At 01:43 PM 11/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
> Captain Pureheart has an ability that lets him see through illusions.
>His True Sight would be purchased as ?
I bought this as truesight, NRAY blocked by opaque objects... you can see in
the dark and totally see through any illusion, see invisible, etc... dragons
have this, but you cant see through objects.
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:14:45 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: The Abyss
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 34
At 02:00 PM 11/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
> The Abyss is a villain who can summon disgusting, decaying hands
>out of cracks which form underneath her opponents. The arms grow stronger
>as the opponent's life force wanes.
> I was thinking of modeling this as an Entangle (takes no damage
>from attack, no 'walls' can be made with entangle, Area of Effect: Radius,
>Indirect, Personal Immunity, Uncontrolled, Concentration (1/2 DCV, activation
>only), Gestures, Limited Power: Only works from the ground)...
> ...how do I model the 'life force wanes, arms get stronger' part?
Transfer, goes to entangle dice/damage... kinda spendy cause it has to be
uncontrolled, continuous, and even indirect... but it works... I made a
heinous Genocide bomb that was an ED transfer to damage dice then it went off.
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:23:19 -0500
From: Bruce Crow <BCROW@cnmc.org>
Subject: fantasy hero campaign help -Reply
Content-Disposition: inline
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 36
>1. Do you allow martial arts? If so, do you allow them to be used with
weapons?
No, I have found that in the Fantasy Hero game I run, it doesn*t blend
well. The problem is that not every one used it and GMing style for
combat is different with martial arts than with what most people think
of as *Fantasy*. I favor skill levels for weapons.
>2. What magic system do you use? I'm leaning towards the one they use
in the books (with the colleges), but I'm not real thrilled with some of
the limitations that they include (especially the 'must have x points in
the college')
I created my own magic system. Not something I suggest you do in an
hour or two you happen to have free. But on the off chance you have a
system from fiction that you like, you could try to duplicate it for a single
character.
At the very least pick a few colleges and flesh them out. Dump the rest.
>3. What kind of damage/defenses should these guys be throwing around?
I'll be starting with (probably) 150 pt characters (is that too high?)
Take a look at your standard fantasy weapon. A sword in most cases. Don*t
let your players do much more damage than it could do, unless you want
swords to be obsolete. Same goes with defenses. If the baddest normal suit
of armor is an 8 rDEF, don*t let your players run around with more than that.
The two should be close in level to each other as well. Once the English had
the longbow, plate armor lost its attractiveness.
I certainly wouldn*t go any higher than 150 pts. But I have started with
ranges from 75 to 150 total.
>4. Do you restrict adjustment powers? a couple of dice of
aid/drain/transfer in a fantasy campaign (where power defense will be
next to non-existent) seems to be VERY overpowered.
Yes, a couple of dice is very powerful. I use a magic system that significantly restricts such powers and other powers as well. For example, I don*t allow flight or teleport, except as an independent (he he) OAF. Needless to say, the number of PCs with such powers was small enough to control.
>5. Are there any limitations you encourage/disallow on magic?
I don*t discourage magic, but I encourage non magic using characters by
not letting spell casters have a clear advantage. I*ve only had a few spell casters over the years. Most players elected to find a spell casting NPC as a friend, rather than play one. The few who did play spell casters, seemed to enjoy it. Many elected for magic items though few put large numbers of points in them.
>6. What do you do about races? I don't like the way the packages in the book do them, especially the characteristic maxima part and some of the
hokey psych lims. I'm thinking about rewriting them to not include the
hokey psych lims (hates goblins? This seems more like a role playing
issue than a psych lim), and to just buy the extra stats outright - a
dwarf will start with a 13 strenght instead of a 10. If he wants to buy
it above 20, he pays double just like everyone else. (the way the
packages are NOW, he is paying the extra pts to go to 23 whether he does it or not)
I write my own racial packages, but generally allow what ever in the way of PC races. I do limit it to non flying races. I did allow a pixie PC once, though it couldn't fly very fast.
>7. Do you do anything with gods? I'm thinking about using the 'Faiths
and Avatars' book for AD&D (one of the best books they ever put out). If
a PC wants to play a religious based character, I'll write up the granted
powers and make them part of a package. Is this more trouble than its
worth?
It is only a problem if gods don't play a part in you campaign. It can be done. I use religions and churches in mine, but not much in the way of gods (as far as the PCs know. Far more goes on behind the scenes than most PCs realize). They just aren*t that predictable to mortals.
_________
Over all remember what you want the world to look like. If you want castles, don*t make magic so powerful, or common, that any spell caster (or PC) could waste one in three minutes. If you want a world where travel from one place to the next takes time (*Brave heroes, you only have one month to reach the evil keep and rescue the princess*), don*t give out teleport or flying. And don*t worry about limiting you PCs too much. A good PC will find all the holes in your limitations.
Watch out for players who want to play Champions in a fantasy world. It is a different genre, not just a different setting.
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"champ-l@omg.org\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 97 20:33:56
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: The Abyss
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:00:19 -0500 (EST), ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> The Abyss is a villain who can summon disgusting, decaying hands
>out of cracks which form underneath her opponents. The arms grow stronger
>as the opponent's life force wanes.
> I was thinking of modeling this as an Entangle (takes no damage
>from attack, no 'walls' can be made with entangle, Area of Effect: Radius,
>Indirect, Personal Immunity, Uncontrolled, Concentration (1/2 DCV, activation
>only), Gestures, Limited Power: Only works from the ground)...
> ...how do I model the 'life force wanes, arms get stronger' part?
>
Linked (aarrgh!) Absorb to Entangle
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 01:59:35 +0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Everyman Skills and Perks
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 14
What sort of variants on Everyman Skills do other GMs use (for
Modern Campaigns, primarily)? The list in the BBB seems fairly complete...
but I'm sure someone has added to it. My other question about the skills
is: how many people interpret AK(Hometown), PS(Profession) and
Language(Native) to be improvable skills? As in, these are "freebie" skill
points.
The other aspect arises from the discussion of TUSV on the list.
Everyman Vehicles have already been discussed, and seems to be fairly
resolved (for me, anyway). What about Everyman Computers? Being *very*
lenient with Disadvantages, you could make a pretty good one for 0 points...
Even limiting the Disads, a passable one could be purchased for nothing.
How much of this should be allowed?
Any input on this would be appreciated. Thanx.
- Jerry
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:04:47 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Fantasy Hero stuff
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
I noticed after that post on what I do with FH games I neglected to put the
URL to my web page on it, like a stunning idiot (which, on reflection, is
better than being just ANY idiot):
http://www.cyberis.net/~lancec/fhero.htm
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 02:06:01 +0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Non-BBB Perks
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 13
I have seen (on some web-sites, I think) some non-BBB, or GM
defined, Perquisites. Things like "Black Belt," "Master's Degree,"
"Accredited Martial Arts Instructor," and "Doctorate." Are these from any
specific books, or were they truly GM defined? Do other GMs charge for
these? I'm trying to decide on it myself...
If these are not charged for, what are appropriate KS or PS levels
for each of the above Perks? I am assuming an earned degree, not a
hand-out... although charging for the Perk, as above, would still be
appropriate for a hand-out diploma/belt.
- Jerry
Reply-To: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
From: "\"Lisa Hartjes\" <beren@unforgettable.com>
\"John \\"BioStorm\\" Jerles\"" <jjerles@pacificnet.net&>
"Jason \"Jezebel\" G." <Legionair@aol.com&>
"Greg \"Boreas\" Haslam" <greg@apvco.com&>
"E. David \"Totem\" Miller" <seleena@fred.net&>
"Duane \"Nathan Phillips\" Morris" <duane@turing.sci.yorku.ca&>
"Tad Kelson" <remmie@null.net&> "Rob Wallace" <knight@sympac.com.au&>
"Paul Koch" <pkoch@isd.ne&> t, "Neale Davidson" <nealed@erols.com&>
"Michelle Knight" <mlknight@mindspring.com&>
"Mia Karen Sherman" <seraph@wam.umd.edu&>
"Matt Korth" <korthmat@pilot.msu.edu&>
"Kenneth W. Crist Jr." <kayuucee@cfar.umd.edu&>
"David W Toomey" <dwtoomey@juno.com&> <d005608c@dc.seflin.org&>
"Charles T. Badger" <wbandsis@westco.net&>
"Luke Whitehead" <magician@bc1.com&> "Wyrdlyng" <wyrdlyng@g&>
eocities.com, "Michael Telford" <mtelford@vancouver.net&>
"Len Undy" <bryce144@fan.net.au&>
"Cheryl Sheppard" <clas@telusplanet.net&>
"Alex Hunter" <alex_hunter@email.fpl.com&>
"Aaron & Mary in Maryland" <AAMW@EARTHLINK.NET&>
"Rafael Sant'Anna Meyer" <avatar@br.homeshopping.com.br&>
"Gary Ciaramella" <BlkDoogan@aol.com&> "Erik Yocum" <ecy@umich.edu&>
"David Holst" <dh@cray.com>
Subject: Change in Home Page address
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 18:25:32 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Sorry to anyone who gets this message more than once.
My home page has changed, and all the Quantum Universe pages have moved.
There are now at the url below.
Lisa Hartjes
beren@unforgettable.com
Home: http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/daniken/79
"What do you mean, don't press the red button......."
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:46:59 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Abyss
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:00 PM 11/17/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> The Abyss is a villain who can summon disgusting, decaying hands
>out of cracks which form underneath her opponents. The arms grow stronger
>as the opponent's life force wanes.
> I was thinking of modeling this as an Entangle (takes no damage
>from attack, no 'walls' can be made with entangle, Area of Effect: Radius,
>Indirect, Personal Immunity, Uncontrolled, Concentration (1/2 DCV, activation
>only), Gestures, Limited Power: Only works from the ground)...
Drop the "No Walls" Limitation (I *think* this is defined when the Power
is bought) and the Personal Immunity, and reduce the AoE to One Hex
(arguable), and I think you have a winner there.
> ...how do I model the 'life force wanes, arms get stronger' part?
Use a Transfer for this (STUN, END, and/or BODY to the Power itself).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:48:24 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: fantasy hero campaign help
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 12:03 PM 11/17/97 CST, Todd Hanson wrote:
>1. Do you allow martial arts? If so, do you allow them to be used with
>weapons?
I do, to a limited extent. I allow the simpler styles (such as boxing,
wrestling, and dirty infighting), and some of the Japanese weapon-based
styles with the names changed. A player can also request another published
martial arts style, or make up one of his own, as long as it's reasonable.
Whether any given GM should allow them or not should depend more on the
setting than any concerns about game balance; as far as I can tell, the
latter isn't much to worry about.
>2. What magic system do you use? I'm leaning towards the one they use
>in the books (with the colleges), but I'm not real thrilled with some of
>the limitations that they include (especially the 'must have x points in
>the college')
I use the one in the books, as published (plus those on my own website,
and one or two invented by players). However, that's mostly because I
didn't want to take the extensive time that would be needed in making up a
whole new system. (I have used a home-brewed system in the past, but I
don't have the notes for that any more; I may redevelop it at some time in
the future.)
>3. What kind of damage/defenses should these guys be throwing around?
>I'll be starting with (probably) 150 pt characters (is that too high?)
150 pt characters (75+75) is probably about right. I told the players
in my PBEM that I allowed anywhere from 75-125 points in Disads, depending
on how complicated they wanted their characters' lives to be, and I got
folks at both ends of that range and in between.
As for damage/defenses, I allow PCs to start with up to 3 DEF total in
worn armor, and a general maximum of 6-8 DEF for spells and purchased
armor. Attacks typically max out at 6 DCs to start, 8 DCs overall.
>4. Do you restrict adjustment powers? a couple of dice of
>aid/drain/transfer in a fantasy campaign (where power defense will be
>next to non-existant) seems to be VERY overpowered.
Personally, I haven't come across any problems so far. Someone else may
have different experiences.
>5. Are there any limitations you encourage/disallow on magic?
Since I follow the published magic system, I go by the guidelines there.
One characteristic of my old homebrew system was that any spell required
fuel or energy of some sort. Thus any spell had to either cost END or use
an Expendable Focus.
>6. What do you do about races? I don't like the way the packages in the
>book do them, especially the characteristic maxima part and some of the
>hokey psych lims. I'm thinking about rewriting them to not include the
>hokey psych lims (hates goblins? This seems more like a role playing
>issue than a psych lim), and to just buy the extra stats outright - a
>dwarf will start with a 13 strenght instead of a 10. If he wants to buy
>it above 20, he pays double just like everyone else. (the way the
>packages are NOW, he is paying the extra pts to go to 23 whether he does
>it or not)
Now this one is a crazy thing. Since my setting is that described in
Flying Buffalo's CityBook series (and related tomes), I get to use some of
the classic races, but (thanks to CityBook V: Sideshow) there are a lot of
strange "Exotic" races ranging from Trolls and Orcs to Chervka, Ruffiri,
and Lurkkans (don't ask). I even have a half-Elf, half-Troll as a PC!
These I've had to work up myself, and I don't have that section done yet.
I use the Characteristic Maxima; that can become an issue in
development. (I also didn't want to deal with the issue of explaining to
the players why this particular detail is different; it was an ease of use
thing.)
As to the Psych Limits, I just figure that these are things that are
taught to children of those races as they're brought up by their own
people. Most of the Exotics were raised by Humans anyway, so it hasn't
become an real issue.
>7. Do you do anything with gods? I'm thinking about using the 'Faiths
>and Avatars' book for AD&D (one of the best books they ever put out). If
>a PC wants to play a religous based character, I'll write up the granted
>powers and make them part of a package. Is this more trouble than its
>worth?
Maybe, maybe not. Personally I just wrote up synopses of all of the
gods in the published books and my own works, and let the priestly PCs take
whichever Church would apply to their individual characters (treating the
Churches more as ministry styles than separate institutions). This has
turned out to be fairly successful thus far, though I haven't gotten far
into things with any of my priest PCs. What you describe doesn't seem like
it's much more or less work than that.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 13:01:08 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
From: happyelf <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Questionable powers...
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 1
At 02:33 PM 11/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>> "AAM" == ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu> writes:
>
>AAM> How do simulate a hero with the power of Animate Matter (i.e. he
>AAM> can create golems out of thin air from readily available materials,
>AAM> like giant boulders... or he could animate a car...). The effects
>AAM> are temporary.
>
>For the umpteenth time, define the special effects first, then pick powers
>that simulate those effects.
>
um, he did? it's an actual entity, i'd advise useing summon. . .
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: 2.6.3a
>Charset: noconv
>
>iQCVAwUBNHCcBp6VRH7BJMxHAQFSFAP+NCgO7EhlfaRd+apV+D5c4blgqRVOTXYw
>1ivvJdmaghqcfIENtyGA0yPA+FvNLdKhLxdY2laWvsh38r2LLMSwhzItyB5Omau2
>0m8gUK8+WYr+Qq0CtXCKKARojuTSDwxs07OS5BMHe5FlpLYzvP4fxaZZlYZ81aKQ
>YBn6VNrZjyE=
>=5zep
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>--
>Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
>PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
> \
>
>
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: fantasy hero campaign help
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 20:03:51 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 12
On Monday, November 17, 1997 9:41 AM, Todd Hanson wrote:
<snip>
>My specific questions:
>
>1. Do you allow martial arts? If so, do you allow them to be used
with
>weapons?
Generally, I'll allow both. An armed version of Dirty Infighting could
be used for generally skilled warriors, while some other arts could be
used for other concepts.
Mostly, this is an effect of setting than it is a game mechanics
problem.
>2. What magic system do you use? I'm leaning towards the one they
use
>in the books (with the colleges), but I'm not real thrilled with some
of
>the limitations that they include (especially the 'must have x points
in
>the college')
Use that one unless you plan on creating your own. Alternatively, if
someone else created a homegrown magic system that you like, you can
use that instead.
Don't drop the standard system without replacing it _and_ carefully
thinking about the consequences of your new system.
>3. What kind of damage/defenses should these guys be throwing around?
>I'll be starting with (probably) 150 pt characters (is that too
high?)
The damage and defenses shouldn't get much beyond human norms. An ogre
character might have a 10 PD, a 300-year-old elven mage may have a 23
INT.
To determine the damage that you intend to allow, calculate the damage
done by a strong fighter with a good weapon, including levels and
martial arts. Then, make that your damage ceiling for wizards and that
sort.
>4. Do you restrict adjustment powers? a couple of dice of
>aid/drain/transfer in a fantasy campaign (where power defense will be
>next to non-existant) seems to be VERY overpowered.
A warrior gets his 1d6+1 HKA (or more) for free, simply by buying a
sword, the wizard gets to pay points for his. It balances.
>5. Are there any limitations you encourage/disallow on magic?
Depends upon the effect you are going for. In some campaigns wizards
are powerful only with considerable time, equipment, etc. This
simulates ritual magic, where you would be a fool to make an enemy of
a wizard, but can easily kill one if he isn't prepared for you. Other
possibilities are where wizards are largely limited by effort (Extra
END, no End Reserve allowed), or get their powers from other sources
(source may refuse, or otherwise involve risk), or where spells must
be prepared in advance (D&D, or "The Dying Earth").
>6. What do you do about races? I don't like the way the packages in
the
>book do them, especially the characteristic maxima part and some of
the
>hokey psych lims. I'm thinking about rewriting them to not include
the
>hokey psych lims (hates goblins? This seems more like a role playing
>issue than a psych lim), and to just buy the extra stats outright - a
>dwarf will start with a 13 strenght instead of a 10. If he wants to
buy
>it above 20, he pays double just like everyone else. (the way the
>packages are NOW, he is paying the extra pts to go to 23 whether he
does
>it or not)
I think your way is best. I have found that when people have to pay
for a higher CHA maxima, they tend to make characters who are the
maximum all around, to make up the lost points.
>7. Do you do anything with gods? I'm thinking about using the
'Faiths
>and Avatars' book for AD&D (one of the best books they ever put out).
If
>a PC wants to play a religous based character, I'll write up the
granted
>powers and make them part of a package. Is this more trouble than
its
>worth?
Details can be worked out with the input of the player, sometimes. The
gods don't need to be spelled out, only the religion as it affects the
players.
<snip>
Filksinger
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:28:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Xcel Charcter Sheet
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
> <Nitpick>
> [1] I think you meant "anime", in which case you don't have to put the
> nation of origin in front of it. There is no Canadian or German anime to the
> best of my knowledge. :]
Depends on how technical you want to get.:) The commonly accepted use of
anime in the US is for Japanese animation. But in Japan anything animated
is anime. My Japanese teacher already corrected one of my speaches to
remind me that if I like Japanese animation and want to be clear I need to
say Japanese anime (nihon no anime).
</Nitpick>
Tokyo Mark
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 18 Nov 97 04:53:46 GMT
Subject: Re: TUSV: vehicles withi
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 3
h> Well, what are the parameters of these Limitations?
h> I've never seen either
h> Star Hero or Robot Warriors, but I might want to
h> build a Radar-Guided-Missle
h> someday (or one that homed in on Mutant signatures... hmm.).
My coppies are both packed away, but as I remember it a Slow
Missle could be shot down (targeted like a focus) and took
the balance of the phase to reach the victim. It was a -1/2.
(Again to the best of my memory from almost 10 years ago)
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 18 Nov 97 04:57:24 GMT
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Villains
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 4
h> No. I'd whole heartedly encourage this guy to
h> learn as much as he can. And
h> if he can impress his players with whatever inklings
h> he learns, it will be well
h> worth it. It's been my experience that most people
h> appreciate it when outsiders
h> try to learn their ways and understand them.
h> Providing it's done in good faith
h> and friendship.
All I can say is that my experiences have been the oposite
of yours. When I have tried to gather cultural information for
a game or portray an ethnic character or setting - to persons
from that setting - I have gotten nothing but grief for
inaccuracy or insensitivity. Thus I make it a point to run
either settings that I am very familliar with from personal
experience, completely fictional ones (the best alternative),
or ones that all my players are unfamilliar with. Games really
suffer when players are constantly correcting the GM.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 18 Nov 97 05:05:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Villains
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 5
h> I do hope that when you go abroad to do business, you attempt to fit in
h> with their society - you'll do far better that way than by acting the
h> arrogant American
h> qts
You've got me dead backwards there. Many people are offended by
the use of thier culture by those (especially whites) not of
that culture. Witness the powwow thread that blazed though
this list not long ago.
When you run a game, you as GM, are creating a universe, basicly
whatever you say is truth within the game. If you aren't very
very knowledgeable about another culture, you can deeply offend
someone, by setting your game in that culture and flubbing up.
It's safer to run what you know.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 18 Nov 97 05:10:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Villains
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!michael.adams
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 6
I had forgotten about the Chinese part of the filipino genome, but there is
also a Japanese as well from just before Japan closed it's borders.
But I did not know of the Mexican Indian part.
Morgoth
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 18 Nov 97 05:19:14 GMT
Subject: Re: TUSV: vehicles withi
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
h> That's my general feeling, though there are occasional cases where a
h> guided missile is better bought as a vehicle. For example, what you
h> describe would miss once and then be gone. If
h> bought as a sub-vehicle, it
h> could miss the target the first time out and then
h> turn around for another
h> try. It's much easier to do it that way than to try
h> to develop some new
h> Advantage and then determine stuff like flight speed and turn mode.
:) You mean like this:
Tenacious +1/2 <NEW>
The Tenacious advantage represents an attack (like a guided
missile) that keeps trying to hit its target on consecutive
phases. Tenacious attacks 'lock on' a target using a targeting
sense chosen from those of the character purchasing it.
Additional or alternate senses can be bought linked to the
attack. To use a tenacious attack, the character attacks the
target's hex. If it hits the hex, the tenacious attack makes a
perception roll (based on the INT of the character that bought
it) to lock on to the target. If their are several possible
targets in the same hex, a failed perception roll (-1 per
additional figure in the hex) will cause the attack to lock on to
the wrong target.
Once it has locked on, the attack tries to hit the target on
each of the attacker's phases. The tenacious attack can travel
its maximum range each phase (divide by the number of segments in
the character's phase to determine its velocity) in pursuit of a
target. The tenacious attack has the OCV of the character that
bought it plus any levels that have been Linked to the attack.
The attacker must spend END on the attack for each phase he
wishes it to attack. Once it hits, the tenacious attack is
dissipated, regardless of how much END it has left. It is
certainly possible to escape a tenacious attack. Obvious tactics
include: moving into densely populated hexes, hiding in smoke or
darkness, or flashing the attack's sense. Attacks bought through
a focus can also be attacked in flight (DCV = OCV +2).
Or this:
Seeking +1 <NEW>
A seeking attack behaves in a manner similar to a tenacious
one but is more sophisticated. To use a seeking attack the
character simply programs the target's appearance (to the
attack's sense) and releases the attack. The attack travels its
maximum range per phase (either in a straight line or in some
other pre-determined search pattern) until it finds its target or
runs out of END.
When it passes within detection range of its target the
attack makes a perception roll (taking no special penalties for
number of figures in a hex). Success indicates that the attack
has locked on and will begin making hit rolls like a tenacious
attack. Failure indicates that the target was not acquired and
another perception roll can be made next phase if the target is
still nearby. Seeking attacks will only lock on to the wrong
target on a roll of eighteen or when some form of disguise of
Images is used. Seeking attacks can be programmed to move more
slowly to increase the chances of spotting a difficult target.
-Opal
Have Variants, will email.
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:28:51 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Reply-To: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Villains
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 7
> I doubt Opals comments are racist. More like from experiance. Most DM/GMs are
> not experianced enough to do another culture. Basically start with the familiar
> and work to the different. After all in any culture there is alot of social
I think I have to concur to an extent. It's possible to do, and
to do well, but it takes some research. Without that extra work, the
mistakes will be problematic _especially_ if one of the players knows more
about the subject than you.
For example, I know very little about LA. I have a player that
lived in LA for quite a while. For me to run a campaign set in LA would
only invite problems with the player pointing out the obvious mistakes.
Now, I could do extra research into the city, but I don't really
have the time. I'll stick with a city none of my players know more about
than me.
-Tim Gilberg
X-Originating-IP: [207.24.16.23]
From: "Garrett Hashimoto" <constantine1000@hotmail.com>
Subject: Need converters please.
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 21:58:11 PST
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 10
Hello, I need some help. Can anyone send me or direct me to any
champions-Marvel converters out there please. I know their is one out
there I had it before but lost it when My harddrive decided to die on
me.:( Thanks for anyone who can help me.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 18 Nov 97 07:59:02 GMT
Subject: fantasy hero campaign he
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 17
h > 1. Do you allow martial arts? If so, do you allow them to be used
h > with weapons?
h >
Yes and yes. Would you like to see some examples?
h > 2. What magic system do you use? I'm leaning towards the one they use
h > in the books (with the colleges), but I'm not real thrilled with some
h > of the limitations that they include (especially the 'must have x point
h > in the college')
h >
Must have X points in the college is practically like using EC's -
may as well do that.
There's a lot of room to be flexible with magick, it depends on what
you want. Should wizards have a few, specific spells they're really
good at (maybe only 1 combat spell), then a modified college system,
without too many limitations is a good idea. If they should have
a slightly broader repretoir, but still conected in some way, Colleges
or ECs. If wizards can have a variety of flashy powers, let them
take Multipowers. If they have less potent, but versatile improvisational
magick, VPPs might be in order. Generally, the greater the versatility
the lower the Apts should be. A wizard with a handful of spells might
have one at 60+Apts, one with a multipower should be kept under 50,
a VPP user you might want to cap at 30.
If you're not using Frameworks, wizards should be pointed towards
Variable Advantage as an alternative. A 'fire wizard' can cover a lot
of special effects with a single Variable advantage energy KA.
h > 3. What kind of damage/defenses should these guys be throwing around?
h > I'll be starting with (probably) 150 pt characters (is that too high?)
h >
150pts is good for heroic characters, it makes the warriors very tough
and highly skilled (the stuff of legend, or at least impressive bar
fights), and allows for wizards to get a reasonable level of magic.
People die in the typical fantasy genre. Attacks can range from 4 DC
for relatively whimpy (but still likely dangerous to some opponents) to
8, 10, even 12+
Defenses on the other hand should be *low* and kept that way. Don't
let wizards have force fields. Keep the armor you design relatively
low-def (6 is reasonable, 8 DEF plate should be really encumbering,
magickal armor should be less encumbering but similar DEF). If
wizards want DEF, Force Wall is a good option - it's actual DEF
is low for the Apts, but it's still a good defense - keep the DEF of
force walls similar to that of Armor.
Keep to this for the monsters too, don't go throwing 20 resitant
defense dragons at your party (10 or 12 maybe) :) And consider
making some of the automata (ie not taking stun), in genre mighty
hero's rarely KO the beasts, but they do skewer them through the
heart.
I'd suggest using at least some of the optional damage rules, and
keeping the default body for 'normals' and throw-away villains
low (5-8).
h > 4. Do you restrict adjustment powers? a couple of dice of
h > aid/drain/transfer in a fantasy campaign (where power defense will be
h > next to non-existant) seems to be VERY overpowered.
h >
I don't restrict adjustment powers (except that you might want to define
several different sub-F/X for magic). But, Power Defense wasn't that
rare, there were plenty of minor magickal wards and charms for protection.
I did allow for less-than-minimum cost Power DEF.
h > 5. Are there any limitations you encourage/disallow on magic?
h >
I like the D&D flavor: Incantations, Gestures, expendable materials,
Foci, and extra time.
h > 6. What do you do about races? I don't like the way the packages in
h > the book do them, especially the characteristic maxima part and some of
h > the hokey psych lims. I'm thinking about rewriting them to not include
h > the hokey psych lims (hates goblins? This seems more like a role playin
h > issue than a psych lim), and to just buy the extra stats outright - a
h > dwarf will start with a 13 strenght instead of a 10. If he wants to
h > buy it above 20, he pays double just like everyone else. (the way the
h > packages are NOW, he is paying the extra pts to go to 23 whether he
h > does it or not)
h >
Yeah, the current packages aren't ideal, but they are far less abusive
than the ones they replaced. Do design your own.
h > 7. Do you do anything with gods? I'm thinking about using the 'Faiths
h > and Avatars' book for AD&D (one of the best books they ever put out).
h > a PC wants to play a religous based character, I'll write up the
h > powers and make them part of a package. Is this more trouble than its
h > worth?
Some things to consider for priests. Some priests might have powers
that are consistent and useable - they might have a small limitation
(-1/4) because thier diety might occasionally withold thier abilities.
Others might have some awe-inspiring powers that aren't really there's
to use (Uncontrolled -2). Activation rolls can be used for those
in between. Conceptually there's really no differnece between 'priest
spells' and 'granted powers' and I'm not sure I'd want priests using
the same type and breadth of spells as wizards.
A Package is a good idea for a priesthood - their abiliteis are
likely to be closely proscribed.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 18 Nov 97 08:03:04 GMT
Subject: Power questions...
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 16
h > From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
h > Captain Pureheart has an ability that lets him see through illusions.
h > His True Sight would be purchased as ?
h > ---
Ego Defense vs Mental Illusions.
+ to perception for Images or
If your GM will let you do it. Levels that add to either perception
vs Images, or to the Ego roll vs Mental Illusions only. Say 3pts
apiece? Maybe 5? It can be a dangerous precedent. I once added
my two overall levels to my Ego roll to break out of a mental
power.... led to days of back and forth about wether it was ballanced,
and those were 10pt levels. :)
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 18 Nov 97 08:07:06 GMT
Subject: Questionable powers...
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 15
h > From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
h > How do simulate a hero with the power of Animate Matter (i.e. he
h > can create golems out of thin air from readily available materials,
h > like
h > giant boulders... or he could animate a car...). The effects are
h > temporary.
h > ---
The classic aproach to this is Telekinisis, possibly with a limitation
depending on what sort of things can be animated. There was version
called 'Animate Object' TK at a -1/2 limitation, only worked on
objects that had some potential to move, like cars or articulated
figures.
Summon is the other option, and should be fairly self explanitory.
Transform really shouldn't be an option. (possible exception for
vehicles and the like that are already built on points - adding
INT and EGO to a vehicle (and paying for it with psychlims like
'Uncontrollable bloodlust') has some precedent in really bad
movies.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 03:12:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Villains
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 18
> h> I do hope that when you go abroad to do business, you attempt to fit in
> h> with their society - you'll do far better that way than by acting the
> h> arrogant American
> h> qts
>
> You've got me dead backwards there. Many people are offended by
> the use of thier culture by those (especially whites) not of
> that culture. Witness the powwow thread that blazed though
> this list not long ago.
I'm actually a little puzzled by this. In the gaming sense, when GMing I
stick with what I know as a GM. If I HAVE to run a game in a place
someone else knows more about than me, I'll usually ask they correct me
if I have something wrong. But when I have lived or traveled
in other countries I've found I get a far more friendly reaction from
people if I make an attempt to learn the language and fit in.
TokyoMark
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:33:26 +0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Villains
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 11:15 AM 11/18/97 -0800, Mark Lemming wrote:
>Seems like what a lot of people are saying is that you shouldn't try
>to portray any thing but what you're intimaetly familiar with. If you
>get anything wrong, you'll start a blood feud.
>Is everyone so thin skinned now? If the people you game with are
>friends, then you should already know to some extent how easily they
>are offended. Then try not to overstep that.
>The person who was thinking of doing a Filipino game can start off
>with easily obtained info and as the campaign progresses branch
>into more specific parts of the culture. This sounds like an excellent
>way to learn more.
>
As the "ignorant white dude" who started all this (my own words), I've been
concerned by the reaction as well. Problem is, I only know one of the guys
who'll be playing. He's a great friend, and a regular player. He was
bragging up our exploits, and his sister and a few other friends from back
home want to play now.
Looks like it might just be a one shot, too, at least for now. So, learning
as I go along isn't really an option. I'm trying to get the "easily
obtained info," and I'm even having problems with that! I'm also trying to
talk to the Players about it, to at least get their general overviews of the
islands. I had intended to change some of it, anyway, to fit in with my
not-exactly-real-world game world. I have until just after Christmas to get
it together...
Pray for me, if your gods would help someone like me, and I'll keep ya'll
updated...
- Jerry
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 03:35:52 -0600 (CST)
X-Sender: mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: TV Characters
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 20
I have two quick questions...
Has anyone done a write-up of the main characters from the Hercules TV show?
Is there a Champ's / AD&D conversion?
How's this for bad, I am the editor of "Herozine" a Fanzine for Super Hero
RPG's, focusing on Champions, but in order to play in a real game I have to
run AD&D at least half the time to keep my players...
:(
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine The Superhero RPG Fanzine...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 06:29:22 -0500 (EST)
X-To: hero-l@october.com
Subject: Re: TUSV: vehicles withi
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: jcs1.jcstate.edu ip 204.117.72.52
X-Smtp-Mail-From: RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu
X-Vms-To: IN%"hero-l@october.com"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 22
Do you have any homeborne Adv./Lim.? These were good.
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 09:52:18 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Reply-To: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Subject: Marvel Char : Sentinel VII
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 23
This is the anti-mutant robot. I'm sure that everyone who reads X-Men
know exactly what it is. He is pretty tough indeed... just don't get hit
by his attacks and you shall be okay :)
For you who think strange the -3 PER and the +3" Running, that's
because I just tried to convert exactly what it would be from Marvel
Superheroes, where for example, its PER roll is not as good as it got from
its big intelligence in Hero.
Name : Sentinel VII Game : Champions
Value Char Cost Base Max Pts Growth
33 Str........x1 10 N/A 23 + 25 = 58 Str
20 Dex........x3 10 N/A 30
47 Con........x2 10 N/A 74
42 Body.......x2 10 N/A 64 + 5 = 47 Body
32 Int........x1 10 N/A 22
0 Ego........x2 10 N/A -20
20 Pre........x1 10 N/A 10
12 Com........x.5 10 N/A 1
7 PD.........x1 7 N/A 0 + 5 = 12 PD
9 ED.........x1 9 N/A 0
4 SPD........x10 3.0 N/A 10
16 Rec........x2 16 N/A 0 + 5 = 21 Rec
94 End........x.5 94 N/A 0
83 Stun.......x1 83 N/A 0 0 Stun, takes no stuns
Characteristics Cost: 214
Disadvantages Pts.
Distinctive Features 25
(not concealable, extreme)
pts Powers END
Automaton
? Immune to any mental attacks
45 Takes no Stun
41 Armor (11, 11) 0
Hardened (+1/4)
150 Variable Power Pool - Countermeasures 120 pts
Only occurs when is attacked (-1/2)
Only powers to conter-attack or defend
from an enemy (-1/2)
3 Countermeasure Skill Roll INT-Based 15-
55 Flight 25" x 4 1/5"
33 Growth: 6m height, 3m width, 3200kg, +5 BODY, 0
-3 DCV, +3 PER rool against, +4m additional
reach, +25 STR, -5" Knockback
0 END (+1/2)
Persistent (+1/2)
Always On (-1/2)
Life Support
10 Doesn't need to breath
3 Immune to Disease
3 Safe in Vacuum/High Pressure
5 Doesn't need to eat, excrete or sleep
67 Regeneration 20 Body/Turn (fixing himself up) 1/Body
Only if raw material is available (-1/2)
Power costs Endurance (-1/2)
Concentrate at 0 DCV while fixing himself
up, for at least 1 turn (cannot stop in middle
of fixing) (-1)
Enhanced Senses
-6 -2 PER roll with all senses
35 Telescopic (+4) Ranged Discriminatory
Tracking Life Type Detection with +3 PER roll
(detects mutants)
154 RKA 5d6-1K (plasma on palms) max:10
2 Armor Piercing (+1)
Penetrating (+1/2)
1/2 END (+1/4)
No KnockBack (-1/4)
175 Energy Blast 7d6+7d6 (eye beams) max:13
2 Armor Piercing (+1)
1/2 END (+1/4)
Reduced Penetration (-1/2)
Continuous (+1)
Uncontrolled (+1/2)
190 Energy Blast 14d6 (heat ray on chest) max:15
2 Armor Piercing (+1)
Penetrating (+1/2)
1/2 END (+1/4)
Reduced by Range (-1/2)
Continuous (+1)
Uncontrolled (+1/2)
No KnockBack (-1/4)
Area Effect (hex) and can spread this area (+3/4)
6 Running +3"
19 Ambidexterity, Bump of Direction, Eidetic Memory,
Lightining Calculator
Exp: Disadvantages Total: 25 1012:Powers / Skills Cost
-1201 Experience Spent+1201 214+Characteristics Cost
Total Points=1226 1226=Total Cost
CV (Dex/3): 7 Phases: 3 6 9 12
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 05:53:22 -0800
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
CC: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Apologia
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 21
Vox Ludator! wrote:
>
> Apologies to the list -- the last message (Re: Xcel Charcter Sheet) I posted
> was meant as a private reply (I doubt the list really cares to hear me
> quibble amateur linguistics :/).
Apologia n. A statement in defense of principles.
I think that you meant, "apology," pure and simple. ;-)
> (Ha! I've never been out-semanticed! :] Look out, sonny! ;])
Ha! Well, now you have! ;-D ;-P :-)
No apologies for this message, let's just not turn it into a major
thread!
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 06:46:16 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Non-BBB Perks
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:06 AM 11/18/97 +0500, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
> I have seen (on some web-sites, I think) some non-BBB, or GM
>defined, Perquisites. Things like "Black Belt," "Master's Degree,"
>"Accredited Martial Arts Instructor," and "Doctorate." Are these from any
>specific books, or were they truly GM defined? Do other GMs charge for
>these? I'm trying to decide on it myself...
> If these are not charged for, what are appropriate KS or PS levels
>for each of the above Perks? I am assuming an earned degree, not a
>hand-out... although charging for the Perk, as above, would still be
>appropriate for a hand-out diploma/belt.
Black Belt and Accredited Martial Arts Instructor are in TUMA; each
costs 1 point.
The Master's and Doctorate I've never seen in print, and would define as
a Professional Skill in the field anyway (at the Characteristic Roll for a
Masters, +2 for Doctorate). If one were to assume that such degrees are
Perks (they do open a few doors that one can't get through with just a
Bachelor's, after all), then I'd charge 1 point for a Master's and 2 for a
Doctorate.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: scm@mail.aci.net
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:08:49 -0800
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <shelley@mactyre.net>
Subject: Re: Non-BBB Perks
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 06:46 AM 11/18/97 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> The Master's and Doctorate I've never seen in print, and would define as
>a Professional Skill in the field anyway (at the Characteristic Roll for a
>Masters, +2 for Doctorate). If one were to assume that such degrees are
>Perks (they do open a few doors that one can't get through with just a
>Bachelor's, after all), then I'd charge 1 point for a Master's and 2 for a
>Doctorate.
I've been making players pay points for degrees for a couple of years now
(that info's posted somewhere on one of my PBEM pages), as well as
meticulous accounting for the years they spent in school in their
backgrounds. I got *so* tired of seeing every other character submission
having five masters and four Ph.Ds (yes, that one really happened, and of
course from a guy who'd never finished college -- and he was outraged I
made him tone it down!)
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
www.mactyre.net
Your children will see the stars.
--Robert A. Heinlein
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Xcel Charcter Sheet
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:55:36 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Monday, November 17, 1997 8:53 PM, Vox Ludator! wrote:
<snip>
>(There is an exception to this, that being Latin: when one shifts
>unexpectedly to a Latin phrase, all that is implied is that the
speaker is
>pretentious. ;] )
>
And better educated than you are, probably.
Filksinger
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 12:25:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Non-BBB Perks
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Shelley Chrystal Mactyre wrote:
> At 06:46 AM 11/18/97 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> > The Master's and Doctorate I've never seen in print, and would define as
> >a Professional Skill in the field anyway (at the Characteristic Roll for a
> >Masters, +2 for Doctorate). If one were to assume that such degrees are
> >Perks (they do open a few doors that one can't get through with just a
> >Bachelor's, after all), then I'd charge 1 point for a Master's and 2 for a
> >Doctorate.
>
> I've been making players pay points for degrees for a couple of years now
> (that info's posted somewhere on one of my PBEM pages), as well as
> meticulous accounting for the years they spent in school in their
> backgrounds. I got *so* tired of seeing every other character submission
> having five masters and four Ph.Ds (yes, that one really happened, and of
> course from a guy who'd never finished college -- and he was outraged I
> made him tone it down!)
>
The one problem I can see with this meticulous accounting is that it could
easily discourage characters from having rich backgrounds. I'm no power
gamer, but if I'm just barely managing to scrape together the points for
my basic concept, I'm going to be a little reluctant to spend 10 points on
my degrees, my liberal arts education, my memberships in professional
organizations, and so on.
One fault of the Hero System is that it's difficult to have a lot of minor
skills, perks, etc. If you get too picky, a character with a well-rounded
education, a few hobbies, and an active professional and social life is
going to be unable to afford the kind of powers that a poorly conceived
two-dimensional character can buy easily.
I tend to get around this problem by making some generous assumptions. If
you've got Physics 14-, you probably have a graduate degree in it and know
a fair amount about math as well. I do encourage people to buy PS:
Physicist as well as SC: Physics, reflecting that they know their
colleagues, know how to apply for grants, etc. as well as to do stuff in
the lab.
A friend of mine favors the more detailed approach, but to allow it gave
250 point characters an additional free 50 "Background Points" which we
could spend on job skills, education, hobbies, contacts, etc. This could
get quite ambiguous ("But computer hacking is my hobby!"), but with a
group of good role-players resulted in a lot of character depth.
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 13:06:04 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Doppleganger
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Greetings,
I'm writing an adventure for Champions. At one point, the characters
are confronted (at seperate times) by evil Dopplegangers of themself.
The Dopplegangers exist to eventually possess the hero, but may
only possess a hero when he 'kills' it (think of it as a symbolic surrender
to the hero's darker side).
The Dopplegangers know all of the characters' fears and limitations;
the Dopplegangers themselves lack a certain number of these fears or
limitations (ex: a character who was horribly mutilated in a fire would
have a doppleganger who wasn't [probally because that would frustrate the
hero even more]; a character who has a Code vs. Killing would have a
Doppleganger who would lack the character's Code vs. Killing).
Since the Dopplegangers are evil, I was thinking of actually giving
them Psychological Limitations of an 'evil' nature (ex: the character who has
the Code vs. Killing might have a Doppleganger who would have Casual Killer).
Does anybody out there have any advice or comments as to how
the confrontation might run? Do you think the heroes will get splattered or
their Dopplegangers smashed?
I'm basing this scenerio loosely off of an issue of Teen Titans where
Trigon has each of the heroes battling their own dark nemesi...
I was also inspired by evil Ash from Evil Dead III: Army of Darkness.
Tell me what you think.
-Jason
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 97 18:33:44
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: TV Characters
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Tue, 18 Nov 1997 03:35:52 -0600 (CST), Michael Nunn wrote:
>I have two quick questions...
>
>Has anyone done a write-up of the main characters from the Hercules TV show?
>
>Is there a Champ's / AD&D conversion?
The Fantasy Hero book has tables and suggestions for converting AD&D to Hero, as
well as several other systems.
>How's this for bad, I am the editor of "Herozine" a Fanzine for Super Hero
>RPG's, focusing on Champions, but in order to play in a real game I have to
>run AD&D at least half the time to keep my players...
AD&D is one of the "constants" in the gaming world. Almost anyone who has ever
gamed knows how to play AD&D. I've been pretty successful at converting AD&D
players to Hero, usually by running Fantasy Hero using one of TSR's game worlds
(Forgotten Realms is my personal fave).
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:15:49 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: McAfee
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Villains
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Opal wrote:
>
> h> I do hope that when you go abroad to do business, you attempt
> h> to fit in
> h> with their society - you'll do far better that way than by
> h> acting the arrogant American
> h> qts
>
> You've got me dead backwards there. Many people are offended by
> the use of thier culture by those (especially whites) not of
> that culture. Witness the powwow thread that blazed though
> this list not long ago.
>
> When you run a game, you as GM, are creating a universe, basicly
> whatever you say is truth within the game. If you aren't very
> very knowledgeable about another culture, you can deeply offend
> someone, by setting your game in that culture and flubbing up.
> It's safer to run what you know.
Seems like what a lot of people are saying is that you shouldn't try
to portray any thing but what you're intimaetly familiar with. If you
get anything wrong, you'll start a blood feud.
Is everyone so thin skinned now? If the people you game with are
friends, then you should already know to some extent how easily they
are offended. Then try not to overstep that.
The person who was thinking of doing a Filipino game can start off
with easily obtained info and as the campaign progresses branch
into more specific parts of the culture. This sounds like an excellent
way to learn more.
-Mark
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:25:17 -0500
From: Gypsy <klgeorge@gte.net>
Subject: Re: DCH to Hero conversion help needed
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 48
Lisa Hartjes wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I've got a really old campaign idea from a DC Heroes game I was a player in
> and I'm thinking of seeing if I can convert it to Hero. The help I need is
> for converting power levels. For example, how many AP's would a level of 2
> be for powers? What skill roll would result from a 2 in Detective?
>
> If there is a conversion chart out there, I'd appreciate it if someone can
> lead me to it.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help!
>
> Lisa Hartjes
> beren@unforgettable.com
> Home: http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/daniken/79
> "What do you mean, don't press the red button......."
There was an article on coverting DC Heros characters to Champions in the
Adventures Club #10, summer 1987, issue. It was by George MacDonald and Steve
Peterson.
Gypsy
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:54:14 -0500 (EST)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Doppleganger
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> Greetings,
> I'm writing an adventure for Champions. At one point, the characters
> are confronted (at seperate times) by evil Dopplegangers of themself.
<Snippity snip>
> Since the Dopplegangers are evil, I was thinking of actually giving
> them Psychological Limitations of an 'evil' nature (ex: the character who has
> the Code vs. Killing might have a Doppleganger who would have Casual Killer).
This is how I would do it. If your characters have unusual
susceptibilities <sp?>, you may want to look intro creating "opposite"
susceptibilities for their dopplegangers. I.E., IIRC, Bizarro was weak
against a certain color of Kryptonite that was harmless to Superman.
> Does anybody out there have any advice or comments as to how
> the confrontation might run? Do you think the heroes will get splattered or
> their Dopplegangers smashed?
Some ideas:
If your heros work well as a team, make each of the dopplegangers
a loner. Give your players bonuses for "switching opponents", instead
going at their own doppleganger. This will reinforce the value of
teamwork, and show how much the characters know about their teammates.
However, if your players are loners themselves, have the
dopplegangers work as a cohesive unit. You'll still be showing the
players the value of teamwork, only this time with negative reinforcement.
If one of your players is taken by his doppleganer, do it "off
camera." Ask the player if he'd like to play the doppelganger, and have
him infiltrate the team. Side plots aplenty!
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
X-Sender: scm@mail.aci.net
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 12:28:14 -0800
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <shelley@mactyre.net>
Subject: Re: Non-BBB Perks
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 12:25 PM 11/18/97 -0500, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>The one problem I can see with this meticulous accounting is that it could
>easily discourage characters from having rich backgrounds. I'm no power
>gamer, but if I'm just barely managing to scrape together the points for
>my basic concept, I'm going to be a little reluctant to spend 10 points on
>my degrees, my liberal arts education, my memberships in professional
>organizations, and so on.
I see your point, but in my games, problems are far more likely to be
solved by thinking and using skills than by using what's in the power
framework. If you pay points for a degree (and let's face it, two points
for a Ph.D is hardly a hardship -- drop your REC or CON down one and get
over it -- heck, that's one night's EPs to make up the difference) then I
assume you have university contacts, have published, and that you're known
in your field. It's actually quite the bonus package. I don't let players
just buy really high skill levels in sciences without some justification,
either, and if you want to be a doctor in my campaigns -- whoof! I've got
a ton of science skills that you have to buy first. I don't, however, make
people pay for an undergrad degree or justify those skills, but I don't
expect them to have skills in excess of INT rolls, either.
I've personally completed twenty credits of chemistry for my minor, but I
couldn't possibly see myself having more than an 8- in chemistry, organic
chemistry, or analytic chemistry, because of the level of depth isn't there
in undergrad coursework. I can do the problems in the book, but put a
professional journal article in front of me and my eyes will glaze over. If
I'd majored in chem, I could see having 11- skills, and if it became my
career afterwards, then an INT roll. If I'd done it my whole life, I can
see it being higher. But to be really, really accomplished in a scientific
field at the young age most Champions characters are at, IMHO, requires
graduate work. Of course there can be exceptions, and players who wished
to do something different could talk to me about it, but I've never had
negative feedback on this front from any of them.
>One fault of the Hero System is that it's difficult to have a lot of minor
>skills, perks, etc. If you get too picky, a character with a well-rounded
>education, a few hobbies, and an active professional and social life is
>going to be unable to afford the kind of powers that a poorly conceived
>two-dimensional character can buy easily.
But perks and skill familiarities are cheap! Powers are usually the very
last thing I think of when making up a Champions character -- buying the
background skills, perks, and talents is the most fun part of character
generation for me. If your GM doesn't reward roleplaying, I can see where
it's a problem, but I don't play or run games where gaming mechanics take
precedence over well rounded characters.
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
www.mactyre.net
Your children will see the stars.
--Robert A. Heinlein
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:51:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: fantasy hero campaign he
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On 18 Nov 1997, Opal wrote:
> Defenses on the other hand should be *low* and kept that way. Don't
> let wizards have force fields. Keep the armor you design relatively
> low-def (6 is reasonable, 8 DEF plate should be really encumbering,
> magickal armor should be less encumbering but similar DEF). If
> wizards want DEF, Force Wall is a good option - it's actual DEF
> is low for the Apts, but it's still a good defense - keep the DEF of
> force walls similar to that of Armor.
I have to disagree here. Fantasy Hero lists a number of different armor
types and their DEF most of which work pretty well.
DEF 6 represent 'average' mail armor, what virtually *everyone* who could
afford it wore during most of the middle ages. The thickest (or heaviest
armor) is full plate, which is DEF 8 (or *maybe* 9). Full plate *isn't*
all that encumbering. A well made suit fits just was well as a suit of
clothing. It is the over all mass of a suit of armor that begins to slow
and tire someone out, but a very strong character can over come that.
The best option with armor is to break down for -0 DCV (no armor), -1 DCV
(1/2 armor) and -2 DCV (full armor). PCs then can buy +1 DCV "Only to
counteract armor penalties" (-1) for 2 points each. This keeps things
simple and playable.
Note that Force Walls stop all Stun, which makes them much more effective
than standard Armor. Force Fields might work better for certain spell
effects.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:22:47 -0600
From: Alex Rojas <rojasa@uthscsa.edu>
Subject: RE: Filipino Heroes/Villains
X-Sender: rojasa@arwen.uthscsa.edu
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>Pray for me, if your gods would help someone like me, and I'll keep ya'll
>updated...
>
>- Jerry
Good luck, hope these help.
http://www.evoserve.com/guest/realms/
http://www.lookup.com/Homepages/77463/option1.html
http://www.pitt.edu/~filipina/legends.html
http://www.pitt.edu/~filipina/mythology.html
Alex
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:49:26 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Non-BBB Perks
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 12:25 PM 11/18/97 -0500, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>One fault of the Hero System is that it's difficult to have a lot of minor
>skills, perks, etc. If you get too picky, a character with a well-rounded
>education, a few hobbies, and an active professional and social life is
>going to be unable to afford the kind of powers that a poorly conceived
>two-dimensional character can buy easily.
Something I've observed over the years is that, while there are a lot
more places to spend points in the Hero System than there were in 1981
(First Edition Champions), there are also a lot more places to get them from.
Sure, in the old days, if my character was filthy rich, had four
degrees, could speak seventeen languages fluently, and was a close personal
friend of the President of the United States, all you had to do was say so;
nowadays it'd take up fifty points or more.
At the same time, the early editions had no Accidental Change,
Dependence, Normal Characteristic Maxima, Reputation, or Rivalry, and
Berserk, Distinctive Features (then called "Unusual Looks,"), and Hunted
weren't as broad. So I could get those 50 extra points by picking up on
those Disadvantages, or by just taking full value for all of my
Psychological Limitations and such.
Originally a superhero (100 base points) was considered well defined if
he had 100 points worth of Disads. When the BBB came out, 150 points was
the norm. These days I'm seeing 200 points in Disads on beginning
characters (such as the Justifiers) and all is well because of the many
innovations now in the Hero System. And as time goes on, even that number
may increase.
Besides, as Shelley points out elsewhere, most of this stuff is pretty
cheap on the whole, at least taken individually. In a lot of sessions,
having 30 points worth of investigative skills is going to be worth a whole
lot more than having an extra 30-point weapon. It will probably also be
worth more than having another 10 Active Points to each of the Powers in
your Elemental Control. So your Energy Blast is 12d6 rather than 10d6;
that's not going to help you stop the bad guy from destroying the state of
Michigan if you can't figure out where he's operating from.
Personally, I'd rather have a PC with a few less points in the primary
Powers and a couple of archetype tricks and background skills than a
full-powered PC with nothing to create around. But maybe that's just the
writer in me.
Of course, 100+100 characters are still absolutely viable. They may be
less powerful overall and/or less well roundedf, but they also have less
problems. It's all a matter of campaign tastes.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 18:32:24 -0800
X-To: Multiple recipients of Hero <hero-l@october.com>
Subject: Missiles (was TUSV: vehicles within vehicles)
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: magic.actonline.com.au ip 203.29.91.2
X-Smtp-Mail-From: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 19
Opal wrote:
>
> :) You mean like this:
>
> Tenacious +1/2 <NEW>
> The Tenacious advantage represents an attack (like a guided
> missile) that keeps trying to hit its target on consecutive
> phases. Tenacious attacks 'lock on' a target using a targeting
> sense chosen from those of the character purchasing it.
> Additional or alternate senses can be bought linked to the
> attack. To use a tenacious attack, the character attacks the
> target's hex. If it hits the hex, the tenacious attack makes a
> perception roll (based on the INT of the character that bought
> it) to lock on to the target. If their are several possible
> targets in the same hex, a failed perception roll (-1 per
> additional figure in the hex) will cause the attack to lock on to
> the wrong target.
> Once it has locked on, the attack tries to hit the target on
> each of the attacker's phases. The tenacious attack can travel
> its maximum range each phase (divide by the number of segments in
> the character's phase to determine its velocity) in pursuit of a
> target. The tenacious attack has the OCV of the character that
> bought it plus any levels that have been Linked to the attack.
> The attacker must spend END on the attack for each phase he
> wishes it to attack. Once it hits, the tenacious attack is
> dissipated, regardless of how much END it has left. It is
> certainly possible to escape a tenacious attack. Obvious tactics
> include: moving into densely populated hexes, hiding in smoke or
> darkness, or flashing the attack's sense. Attacks bought through
> a focus can also be attacked in flight (DCV = OCV +2).
>
> Or this:
>
> Seeking +1 <NEW>
> A seeking attack behaves in a manner similar to a tenacious
> one but is more sophisticated. To use a seeking attack the
> character simply programs the target's appearance (to the
> attack's sense) and releases the attack. The attack travels its
> maximum range per phase (either in a straight line or in some
> other pre-determined search pattern) until it finds its target or
> runs out of END.
> When it passes within detection range of its target the
> attack makes a perception roll (taking no special penalties for
> number of figures in a hex). Success indicates that the attack
> has locked on and will begin making hit rolls like a tenacious
> attack. Failure indicates that the target was not acquired and
> another perception roll can be made next phase if the target is
> still nearby. Seeking attacks will only lock on to the wrong
> target on a roll of eighteen or when some form of disguise of
> Images is used. Seeking attacks can be programmed to move more
> slowly to increase the chances of spotting a difficult target.
>
> -Opal
> Have Variants, will email.
Very nice!!! An interesting variation on the continueing charges or
uncontrolled continueos modifiers. Was this more or less of the cuff or
do you in fact have several more like these?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
X-Sender: bsvitavs@acs-mail.bu.edu
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:36:55 -0500
From: bsvitavs@bu.edu (Bill Svitavsky)
Subject: Re: Non-BBB Perks
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
>At 12:25 PM 11/18/97 -0500, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>>The one problem I can see with this meticulous accounting is that it could
>>easily discourage characters from having rich backgrounds. I'm no power
>>gamer, but if I'm just barely managing to scrape together the points for
>>my basic concept, I'm going to be a little reluctant to spend 10 points on
>>my degrees, my liberal arts education, my memberships in professional
>>organizations, and so on.
>
>I see your point, but in my games, problems are far more likely to be
>solved by thinking and using skills than by using what's in the power
>framework.
I like the sound of your games. But big flashy powers are an important part
of superhero games, too, and I think it takes some effort to leave room for
both.
>
>>One fault of the Hero System is that it's difficult to have a lot of minor
>>skills, perks, etc. If you get too picky, a character with a well-rounded
>>education, a few hobbies, and an active professional and social life is
>>going to be unable to afford the kind of powers that a poorly conceived
>>two-dimensional character can buy easily.
>
>But perks and skill familiarities are cheap! Powers are usually the very
>last thing I think of when making up a Champions character -- buying the
>background skills, perks, and talents is the most fun part of character
>generation for me. If your GM doesn't reward roleplaying, I can see where
>it's a problem, but I don't play or run games where gaming mechanics take
>precedence over well rounded characters.
>
Yes, perks and skill familiarities are relatively cheap, but they can still
add up quickly. There are games out there where characters can easily have
30 or 40 skills to some small degree, and Hero just doesn't do that kind of
thing well.
I'll use myself as an example. I've got 2 Master's degrees, Knowledge
Skills of at least 11- in Literature, the Humanities, and Library Science,
Professional Skills of Teaching and Librarianship, points in French, Old
English, Greek and Latin, I can read music and used to play a few
instruments, I have Area Knowledge of at least 4 places I've lived,
additional KS's of gaming, comics, and speculative fiction, and
familiarities with myth, Jungian psychology, and various other interests.
If I were being really meticulous, I could add some specializations within
the KS's I've already mentioned (18th Century English literature, the Hero
System, etc.) and various minor talents (I'm good with cats, and I can
catch a stack of quarters off my elbow.) Plus, I could probably spend 5-10
points in characteristics. My total could easily be between 35 and 50
points.
Granted, I'm a little overeducated and a big geek. But I'm not all that
exceptional; a librarian would be pretty run of the mill as superhero
Secret ID's go. In fact, many heroes are brilliant scientists or experts on
one thing or another, and frequently that's just backstory. And even
nongeniuses can have diverse bodies of knowledge which become useful on
occasion.
30 points is a lot to a 250 point character. As much as I create and
encourage well-rounded characters, I can understand that the language a
hero took in high school is going to be one of the first things shaved off
when it comes to balancing points, and a player may very well have to
choose between a character's inkwell collection and his or her in-depth
knowledge of Gilligan's Island. And you do see this sort of thing in
comics: Blue Beetle, for example, is pretty knowledgeable about Russian
literature, and who knows how many languages Batman speaks?
I mentioned my friends 50 point "fleshing out" bonus - that's one way to
encourage this sort of depth, but it's easily abused. I prefer to have
characters spend a few points on their major areas of knowledge, but accept
that if the player consistently role-plays a lifestyle or interest, there
may be occasions where he or she should get a relevent INT roll even if the
knowledge skill isn't on the character sheet.
From: "Len Carpenter" <redlion@voicenet.com>
Subject: RE: Fantasy Hero Campaign Help
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 00:18:41 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 3
Having every character in an FH campaign be a mass of 18s and 20s for
primary stats can be a pain, as well as boring. A house rule of mine is
to add a mandatory disadvantage for hero-level campaigns that affects the
cost of the primary characteristics. Up to 15 (or 16, in the case of
Comeliness), the cost is normal. From 16 to 20, (or 17-20, in the case of
Comeliness), the cost is doubled. Above 20, the cost is tripled. Above
25, if the GM permits such high scores, the cost is quadrupled. So a
knight's 20 STR would cost 5+10=15 points, and a barbarian's impressive 25
STR 5+10+15=30 points. A 21 DEX, intended to top those swashbuckling 20
DEX characters, would cost 15+30+9=54 points. (Makes for some hairy
spreadsheet formulas, though.)
This makes the point-cost curve a bit more like GURPS, where stats that
get closer to the human max get more and more costly. It also makes
skills, skill levels, and magic spells seem cheaper in contrast to high
stats. For the sake of simplicity, the figured characteristics I would
leave alone. Heroic characters usually don't buy up to maximum STUN or
END, anyway.
This disadvantage, worth 10 to 20 points, depending on how much the GM
wants to discourage or permit high stats, is not counted against the
character's 75-point maximum for disadvantages. (I do the same thing for
racial and professional package bonuses.) I would limit beginning human
characters to an 18 max in all primary characteristics. A character who
wants a 20 stat has to buy it with experience points: it gives a
character something to look forward to. So I would set the disadvantage
as worth 10 points. The disadvantage would apply to normal character
types only, not to fantastic beings or unusual creatures. The higher cost
of stats has no effect on how adjustment powers like Drain and Aid
work--the official rules still apply.
On a related note, the STR minima for some weapons are absurdly high, so
making STR a little more costly doesn't hurt characters where the GM
reduces the minima to reasonable levels. A STR minimum formula of Active
Points/3 is more reasonable than the official Active Points/2. No melee
weapon should have a STR minimum higher than 13.
Changing CHAR costs like this does affect racial packages. To keep things
simple, I would remove all CHAR maxima and minima from packages. With
these higher point costs, it's tough to balance the package costs. The
character who buys up to or above the max in stats can get points for
nothing, or the more average fellow who doesn't buy up his stats wastes
points by staying average. If a race has a 23 DEX max, this could cost 9
or 18 points in a racial package, depending on how you view the value of
the bonus, normal cost or double cost. Either way, a considerable saving
or waste can be involved.
I consider it a flaw in the HERO system that a CHAR roll or skill roll
doesn't improve enough from an average of 8 to the human max of 20, a base
11- to a 13- roll, roughly a 20% better chance of succeeding. To make
high stats more meaningful, I've tinkered with the way CHAR and skill
rolls are calculated for all HERO campaigns, changing the base roll
formula to 8+(CHA/3). The human max of 20 gets a base 15- roll now.
Instead of having to buy a stat up to 43 to get a base 18- roll, a 29 stat
gets you the same roll, so point inflation for superhero characters loses
a bit of its incentive. If it seems that characters are benefiting too
often from their high skill rolls, be more liberal in assessing difficulty
penalties to rolls. A character's stats need not be a mass of 13s and
18s, with break-points now occurring at 11, 14, 17, and 20. The increased
costs of stats are partly balanced against the higher skill rolls the
characters gain.
Another change--some weapons are easier to master than others.
Historically, the great advantage of the crossbow over the longbow was
that it took soldiers a lot less time to learn the slower crossbow, while
an English yeoman had to spend several years of constant practice to
become a proficient archer, worthy of the battlefields in France. I broke
down weapon familiarities into a lengthier table that assesses each weapon
or weapon group's cost based on this--2 points for familiarity with a
particular crossbow, for example, 5 points for the longbow.
A warrior who wants to learn a wide range of weapons could wind up
spending a lot of points. For this fellow, I offer a new 3-point skill
enhancer: Weapons Master, which reduces the cost of each weapon
familiarity purchased by one point.
Every character's sheet should include at least four Psych. Limitations,
even if several of them are at zero cost because the character has made
his max of 25 points for any one Disadvantage category. It helps to
better define the hero's personality.
Len Carpenter
redlion@early.com
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 19 Nov 97 05:49:48 GMT
Subject: Michael Surbrook and adaptations.
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!michael.adams
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 4
Michael, ever thought about doing a game supplment?
I suspect you could post it here on Red October if you wish (telnet
october.com)
Or .. publish it or ...
Morgoth
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:54:55 +0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: DNPC: Pets
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 31
Has anyone allowed this? Most Pets would be Incompetent, surely...
but I don't have write-ups for a large number of animals. I don't own the
Bestiary. The one I'm specifically looking for is... a Vietnamese
pot-bellied pig. A smart one. If anyone can help me out, I'd really
appreciate it.
- Jerry
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 06:55:38 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Zero-Gravity & Precarious Places
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
What are the penalties assigned to being in zero G or upside down?
Are there any skills or perks that can negate this penalty?
-Jason
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 03:56:35 -0800
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Non-BBB Perks
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 6
Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> >But perks and skill familiarities are cheap! Powers are usually the very
> >last thing I think of when making up a Champions character -- buying the
> >background skills, perks, and talents is the most fun part of character
> >generation for me. If your GM doesn't reward roleplaying, I can see where
> >it's a problem, but I don't play or run games where gaming mechanics take
> >precedence over well rounded characters.
> >
>
> Yes, perks and skill familiarities are relatively cheap, but they can still
> add up quickly. There are games out there where characters can easily have
> 30 or 40 skills to some small degree, and Hero just doesn't do that kind of
> thing well.
(hisself as an example snipped)
> 30 points is a lot to a 250 point character. As much as I create and
> encourage well-rounded characters, I can understand that the language a
> hero took in high school is going to be one of the first things shaved off
> when it comes to balancing points, and a player may very well have to
> choose between a character's inkwell collection and his or her in-depth
> knowledge of Gilligan's Island. And you do see this sort of thing in
> comics: Blue Beetle, for example, is pretty knowledgeable about Russian
> literature, and who knows how many languages Batman speaks?
>
> I mentioned my friends 50 point "fleshing out" bonus - that's one way to
> encourage this sort of depth, but it's easily abused. I prefer to have
> characters spend a few points on their major areas of knowledge, but accept
> that if the player consistently role-plays a lifestyle or interest, there
> may be occasions where he or she should get a relevent INT roll even if the
> knowledge skill isn't on the character sheet.
Actually I've never seen it as that much of a quandry. In the HERO
system, I don't believe that EVERYTHING has to have a point value. I
mean it is assumed that everybody has a place of residence, but nobody
makes their players build their house/apartment as a base (okay, maybe
somewhere SOMEONE does) before buying characteristics and skills...
Basically, a hero with a really big brain full of good stuff will
have to pay a chunk of points for it, but that is because 'a big brain
full of good stuff' will be part of the hero's bag of tricks. Skills
and perks that USUALLY don't impact the adventures should be allowed for
free and - as you said - if they are roleplayed consistently and
established well, can be used on occasion. Also, any KS, AK, Science or
whatnot that is originally included for free as part of the character's
'colour' can always be paid for at a later time with experience if it
gets used too often.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "Sean Pavlish" <pavlish@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:00:01 -0500
X-To: "Multiple recipients of Hero" <hero-l@october.com>
Subject: Re: Michael Surbrook and adaptations.
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: smtp1.erols.com ip 205.252.116.101
X-Smtp-Mail-From: pavlish@erols.com
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 10
Mike is currently writing a book for Hero; Kazei 5. The manuscript is
supposed to go in for review at the first of the year... The book is a dark
champs type setting, very cool.
Sean
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Adams <Michael.Adams@october.com>
To: champ-l@omg.org <champ-l@omg.org>
Date: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 1:08 AM
Subject: Michael Surbrook and adaptations.
Michael, ever thought about doing a game supplment?
I suspect you could post it here on Red October if you wish (telnet
october.com)
Or .. publish it or ...
Morgoth
Reply-To: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
Subject: DCH to Hero conversion help needed
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:15:39 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 11
Hi!
I've got a really old campaign idea from a DC Heroes game I was a player in
and I'm thinking of seeing if I can convert it to Hero. The help I need is
for converting power levels. For example, how many AP's would a level of 2
be for powers? What skill roll would result from a 2 in Detective?
If there is a conversion chart out there, I'd appreciate it if someone can
lead me to it.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Lisa Hartjes
beren@unforgettable.com
Home: http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/daniken/79
"What do you mean, don't press the red button......."
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:15:31 -0500
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: Fantasy Hero Campaign Help
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 12
> On a related note, the STR minima for some weapons are absurdly high, so
> making STR a little more costly doesn't hurt characters where the GM
> reduces the minima to reasonable levels. A STR minimum formula of Active
> Points/3 is more reasonable than the official Active Points/2. No melee
> weapon should have a STR minimum higher than 13.
I disagree; you just have to remember that it's quite possible to use weapons
with a STR min higher than your STR. I had a STR 13 character who used a
greatsword on a regular basis: the -1 OCV for being understrength was
countered by the +1 OCV of the sword, making it a great way to do 2d6K.
Geoff Speare
From: "Sean Pavlish" <pavlish@erols.com>
Subject: Possession type question
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:05:06 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 15
I'd like some feedback from you all on the list about a creature I'm
attempting to write up for Fantasy Hero.
The creature in itself has Desolid and Invisibility with no fringe. I got
this part down, no problems here.
The problem comes from the creatures ability to jump into a dead corpse and
use that corpse to affect the real world.
I would like some feedback on how to best write this ability up. Oh, and I
don't have horror hero, so that doesn't help me much.
It had been suggested to write up stats and such with the lim that it requires
a corpse or something like that, and I thought about giving him TK to move the
body around with no range on it. Anyone know of better examples?
Sean
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:25:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Michael Surbrook and adaptations.
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 17
On 19 Nov 1997, Michael Adams wrote:
> Michael, ever thought about doing a game supplment?
Actually, I'm working a worldbook for Hero Games called "Kazei 5", an
anime/cyberpunk sourcebook. I hope to have it out to Hero by the end of
the year. For a preview, visit my website.
I have several other minor suppliemnt/worldbooks on my site, including
a barebones fantasy universe, an SF universe and some extesive notes on my
Silent Mobius universe adaption.
I wouldn't mind doing some more, although time constraints would limit
how much I could do by myself.
Did you have a particular subject matter in mind?
Me, I wanna do "Wuxia Hero" - a Hero sourcebook for HK action flims.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:45:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Campaign Help
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 18
On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Geoffrey Speare wrote:
>
> > On a related note, the STR minima for some weapons are absurdly high, so
> > making STR a little more costly doesn't hurt characters where the GM
> > reduces the minima to reasonable levels. A STR minimum formula of Active
> > Points/3 is more reasonable than the official Active Points/2. No melee
> > weapon should have a STR minimum higher than 13.
>
> I disagree; you just have to remember that it's quite possible to use weapons
> with a STR min higher than your STR. I had a STR 13 character who used a
> greatsword on a regular basis: the -1 OCV for being understrength was
> countered by the +1 OCV of the sword, making it a great way to do 2d6K.
And I'm going to disagree with your disagreement. ^_^
I probably have an STR of 8 or 9 and I can use a standard broadsword with
no problem. I can also weild a 4 1/2' hand-and-a-hald sword pretty well.
I think that the STR mins are way to high for most weapons. Swords should
have a STR of 10, greatswords maybe 13, polearms the same.
My gaming group did an extensive re-write of weapons from FH and NH (and
UMA), lowering STR Mins (and in some cases damage) all around... Actually,
we axed OCV bonuses for most everything, altered damage scores and removed
such things as +1 Stun mods (and added AP to axes). The numbers come out
much nicer.
As a counter balance to the lowered STR Mins, the cost for STR became 2
points per point of STR. I didn't like *that* response, but hey, you
can't have everything...
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 07:53:22 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Zero-Gravity & Precarious Places
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 22
At 06:55 AM 11/19/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> What are the penalties assigned to being in zero G or upside down?
>Are there any skills or perks that can negate this penalty?
The most current rules about Zero Gravity are in TUMA.
Essentially, combat actions that normally require the character's feet
to be planted formly on the ground or which otherwise make use of gravity
are at -3 OCV, and Martial Arts strikes are at -1 DC. Knockback is at
-1d6, of course, and is divided between the attacker and defender.
There is also a 3-point DEX-based Professional Skill, Zero-G Combat,
that a character can have to negate this penalty.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:02:56 -0500
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: Possession type question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 19
> The problem comes from the creatures ability to jump into a dead corpse and
> use that corpse to affect the real world.
> I would like some feedback on how to best write this ability up. Oh, and I
> don't have horror hero, so that doesn't help me much.
If the creature's abilities don't really vary no matter what corpse is used,
then it seems pretty easy; have it go non-Desolid non-Invisible and give it
the appropriate stats/abilities.
If the abilities vary with the corpse (animating a dragon vs. animating a
person, for example), then you probably have to take the ugly path of defining
the upper power limit and then putting a "based on corpse" limitation on
everything.
Geoff Speare
From: "D. Michael Basinger" <dbasinge@arches.uga.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:06:30 -0500 (EST)
Priority: NORMAL
X-Authentication: IMSP
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 21
I have some character sheets for Champions/Hero 4th edition on my
web page. One is in a Excel 7.0 for Win95 spreadsheet, and the
other is a Acrobat PDF. Try them out and let me know if you like
them. If you have any suggestion let me know.
You can find them at
http://www.arches.uga.edu/~dbasinge/champ4th.html
Thanks,
Mike
--
D. Michael Basinger
dbasinge@arches.uga.edu
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:46:25 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 39
At 04:20 PM 11/19/97 -0500, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>Geist: This spirit actually must enter the target body to control it.
>But instead buying Affect Desolid on her Mind Control, she never becomes
>fully desolid, and actually uses no-size-change shrinking and no range
>mind control. The resulting possessed character looks like a disturbing
>mixture of the two people.
"No size change shrinking"? :[___] <- jawdrop
I suppose after "non-insubstantial Desolidification" and "can-be-seen
Invisibility", the trend of "f*** the purpose and just lift the mechanics"
was bound to continue.
What's next? Multiform, does not change? Swimming, not in water?
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:46:26 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Xcel Charcter Sheet
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 38
At 09:01 PM 11/19/97 -0500, Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>Where does everyone's Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level fall?
I usually play in games that start around 250-300 points. My current PC is
265, but he's explicitly a "rookie" character, equivalent to 'Year One' types.
> All these names are copyright somebody and neither this list nor the
> write-ups referenced could possibly be seen as a challenge to that.
No -- they're TRADEMARKS. You can't copyright singular terms or names.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:57:50 +0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 43
Michael Adams wrote:
>Maybe have a dog or cat hero and have a DNPC human (grin).
>
Yeah, but I haven't had anyone want to play Rin-Tin-Tin, or Rex, The Wonder
Dog, yet...
- Jerry
From: "Sean Pavlish" <pavlish@erols.com>
Subject: Math Question
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:54:52 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 24
Hey,
How does the math work out when figuring advantages and add ons.
For example, lets say you have a gun.
Would you add the points (+5 per) for OCV bonuses to the active points prior
to multiplying advantages or afterwards.
Thus 15 active with one level of ocv at zero end (to keep simple)
would it be 20 x 1/2 = 30
or 15 x 1/2 = 22, then + 5 = 27
I am assuming the first, but am unsure. Also what about the opposite of
negitive add ons and limitations...
Lets say same thing with a -1 OCV
would it be 15/2 (-1 for OAF) - 5 (for the negative OCV Level) = 2
or 15 - 5 = 10, then divide by 2 = 5
Thanks
Sean
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:08:08 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Possession type question
X-VMS-To: IN%"pavlish@erols.com", IN%"Champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 26
>The problem comes from the creatures ability to jump into a dead corpse and
>use that corpse to effect the real world.
Honestly, I'd probally go for a Transform on inanimate corpses
into animated corpses, the animated 'automaton' corpse could then be
used as a body by the incorporeal monster... kind of like riding in
an abondoned car, only yuckier.
You could probally slap on some Lim. to the transform as
well as the animated 'automaton' corpse.
Susept. to holy items, Phys. Lim: Rotting, Distinctive Features:
Dead, corpse like shambler, etc. come to mind for the corpse.
The incorporeal being, on the other hand, will probally have to be
concious and within the corpse for it to stay animated.
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:24:25 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Math Question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 30
At 01:54 PM 11/19/97 -0500, Sean Pavlish wrote:
>Hey,
>
>How does the math work out when figuring advantages and add ons.
>
>For example, lets say you have a gun.
>
>Would you add the points (+5 per) for OCV bonuses to the active points prior
>to multiplying advantages or afterwards.
>
>Thus 15 active with one level of ocv at zero end (to keep simple)
>
>would it be 20 x 1/2 = 30
>or 15 x 1/2 = 22, then + 5 = 27
>
>I am assuming the first, but am unsure. Also what about the opposite of
>negitive add ons and limitations...
>
>Lets say same thing with a -1 OCV
>
>would it be 15/2 (-1 for OAF) - 5 (for the negative OCV Level) = 2
>or 15 - 5 = 10, then divide by 2 = 5
There's no official ruling in any published work that I know of, but
what appears to be the practice (and the way I've generally done it) is
that OCV bonuses and penalties are added after most Advantages, but before
Limitations. Thus your 15 base point weapon with +1/2 Advantage and -1
Limitation would be worth 13 real points.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 01:26:31 +0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 51
At 09:59 PM 11/19/97 -0800, Shelley Mactyre wrote:
>At 10:57 PM 11/19/97 +0500, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>>Michael Adams wrote:
>>>Maybe have a dog or cat hero and have a DNPC human (grin).
>>>
>>Yeah, but I haven't had anyone want to play Rin-Tin-Tin, or Rex, The Wonder
>>Dog, yet...
>
>A fellow player in my husband's GURPS Traveller game, oh, about four years
>ago now, brought in a cat PC. Made raiding the Vargr base *really*
>interesting! =)
>
Unfortunately, I don't know Traveller, so I don't get your reference, but
(according to my bro) there is a woman in Fredericksburg who (at the local
game shop) would always play some version of a cat... either humanoid or
not. The GURPS Supers game that was run there, she was a cat with powers
that had no range, I believe... she was also nigh-invulnerable (really high
DR). They figured out that the most effective attack they could do as a
team was to have the really strong guy *throw* the cat at someone... it
would do damage to the target, none to the cat, and then the cat could use
her powers... Of course, the cat's Player was a little upset by the
suggestion. : )
- Jerry
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"Multiple recipients of Hero\" <hero-l@october.com&>
\"Opal\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 97 20:45:22
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Villains
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 33
On 18 Nov 97 05:05:28 GMT, Opal wrote:
>
>
> h> I do hope that when you go abroad to do business, you attempt to fit in
> h> with their society - you'll do far better that way than by acting the
> h> arrogant American
>
>You've got me dead backwards there. Many people are offended by
>the use of thier culture by those (especially whites) not of
>that culture.
More respect you for trying.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 97 20:45:22
X-To: "champ-l@omg.org" <champ-l@omg.org&> "Multiple recipients of Hero" <hero-l@october.com&> "Opal" <Opal@october.com>
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Villains
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: pluto.nildram.co.uk ip 195.112.4.14
X-Smtp-Mail-From: qts@nildram.co.uk
X-Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 34
On 18 Nov 97 05:05:28 GMT, Opal wrote:
>
>
> h> I do hope that when you go abroad to do business, you attempt to fit in
> h> with their society - you'll do far better that way than by acting the
> h> arrogant American
>
>You've got me dead backwards there. Many people are offended by
>the use of thier culture by those (especially whites) not of
>that culture.
More respect you for trying.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:45:37 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Character sheets
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 29
At 11:06 AM 11/19/97 -0500, D. Michael Basinger wrote:
>I have some character sheets for Champions/Hero 4th edition on my
>web page. One is in a Excel 7.0 for Win95 spreadsheet, and the
>other is a Acrobat PDF. Try them out and let me know if you like
>them. If you have any suggestion let me know.
>
>You can find them at
>http://www.arches.uga.edu/~dbasinge/champ4th.html
I took a look, grabbed the pdf version, and printed it out. It looks
good from here.
I've also bookmarked your website, and will be keeping an eye on it. It
shows some promise. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:20:04 -0500
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 28
Here's how I did it with a character who possesses live bodies.
On page http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/1905/haym15g.html of my
Haymaker Size and Density Powers article, I have this character snippet:
[[
Geist: This spirit actually must enter the target body to control it.
But instead buying Affect Desolid on her Mind Control, she never becomes
fully desolid, and actually uses no-size-change shrinking and no range
mind control. The resulting possessed character looks like a disturbing
mixture of the two people.
]]
The relevant powers looks like this:
40 Desolid MP
4u Desolid
4u Shrinking (no size change) {+8 DCV, -8 PER, +12" KB}
18 -12" KB (linked to Shrinking)
7 Possession EC (no range)
55 18d Mind Control (no range)
5 Mind Link, any one mind (no range)
13 Clinging +30 STR
So instead of worrying about the affects solid cost for his powers, he
just becomes solid, but hard to hit. Perhaps a similar approach could be
used in the corpse-possessing character.
Dave Mattingly
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5953
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:52:58 -0800
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Math Question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 27
Sean Pavlish wrote:
>
> Hey,
> How does the math work out when figuring advantages and add ons.
> For example, lets say you have a gun.
> Would you add the points (+5 per) for OCV bonuses to the active points prior
> to multiplying advantages or afterwards.
>
> Thus 15 active with one level of ocv at zero end (to keep simple)
> would it be 20 x 1/2 = 30
> or 15 x 1/2 = 22, then + 5 = 27
>
> I am assuming the first, but am unsure. Also what about the opposite of
> negitive add ons and limitations...
> Lets say same thing with a -1 OCV
>
> would it be 15/2 (-1 for OAF) - 5 (for the negative OCV Level) = 2
> or 15 - 5 = 10, then divide by 2 = 5
Don't take this as gospel, but I think this is it.
Any add-ons or subtract-ons are included before limitations are
taken. Since the modifiers (OCVs in your examples) are integral parts
of the focii (or whatever powers in question) the take the same
limitations as everything else.
If the OCV were added on after limitations, for example, you might as
well simply buy the OCV level for everything it might apply to. And
since the OCV penalty ONLY affects the power it's attatched to, the
point savings is reduced.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:30:30 -0600 (CST)
X-Sender: psansone@i1.net
From: psansone@i1.net (Sparx)
Subject: Re: Energy Solidification
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 32
>AAM> Energy solidification is a power that allows a hero to
>AAM> solidify energy.
>
>Entangle, maybe Transformation Attack, other powers that simulate the
>effects of what you are trying to accomplish.
>
>Seriously, Jason, you need to take a step back and look at the effects you
>are trying to create and then pick powers to model them, rather than the
>other way around. If you did you would be posting questions much less
>frequently.
Not to insult anyone here, but really, I like the questions. I prefer
someone ask as many questions as possible. Sometimes we think in different
ways to create the same power. That can be seen true by looking at this
list. His questions get us to think and start some conversation, and
probably answer some questions we might have. So in my opinion, though I
haven't done much answering due to work, keep asking!!! Take it easy and
talk at you later.
Sparx
=====================================================
Dog for sale: eats anything and is fond of children.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Check out #herochat on DALnet an IRC for Champions Conversation
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
X-Sender: scm@mail.aci.net
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:22:00 -0800
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <shelley@mactyre.net>
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 35
At 04:54 PM 11/19/97 +0500, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
> Has anyone allowed this? Most Pets would be Incompetent, surely...
>but I don't have write-ups for a large number of animals. I don't own the
>Bestiary. The one I'm specifically looking for is... a Vietnamese
>pot-bellied pig. A smart one. If anyone can help me out, I'd really
>appreciate it.
I don't have problems with DNPC pets, myself. They're worth disadvantage
points, that's for sure! We have two dogs (a Queensland Heeler cross and a
Border Collie) and three ferrets, and a lot of time goes into feeding,
cleaning, and playing with all of them. Nika, the Border Collie is probably
the best example: she has useful skills (barks when the phone rings, when
the washing machine is off balance, knows all my friends and the ferrets by
name, and, on top of it all, she even intimidates Jehovah's Witnesses). I
think the first incarnation of "Glucose Girl" had all the pets made up as
separate DNPCs, and she was listed as competent with useful skills,
occurred 14- (it's seriously limiting when you can't leave the dog alone
for more than five hours or she'll pop!) I've brought DNPC pets into the
game for my PCs -- a 100 IQ German Shepherd, for example. Most people I
know have pets, and are deeply attached to them. Makes sense for pets to
show up in play, too.
Boars, but not pigs, are listed in the Hero Bestiary as follows:
13 STR
17 DEX
15 CON
12 BODY
5 INT
5 EGO
13 PRE
10 COM
8 PD
4 ED
3 SPD
8 REC
30 END
28 STUN
They were given a 1 pip HKA for their bite, a HKA for their tusks, +2 PD
armor, +5 PRE (create fear), UV Vision, +4 smell perception, concealment
12- and +3 HTH combat. Disads were irrelevant to pigs excepting the no fine
manipulation. I don't know if I'd use much of this for pot-bellied pigs.
I think your average pig's brighter than a 5, has shrinking, and a higher
speed than 3 (I've seen pigs move *really* fast!).
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
www.mactyre.net
Your children will see the stars.
--Robert A. Heinlein
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Energy Solidification
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 19 Nov 1997 18:33:09 -0500
Lines: 26
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 36
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "S" == Sparx <psansone@i1.net> writes:
S> Not to insult anyone here, but really, I like the questions. I prefer
S> someone ask as many questions as possible. Sometimes we think in
S> different ways to create the same power.
Then would it not be better to start with ideas for powers for effects,
with a request for comments?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNHN3MZ6VRH7BJMxHAQGVDAP/em/I2z1rptTW6HbHoJ+P370eN+5Owohv
wNZBpkY4ic0pfHO9rbVUjatDtrLSSXast6VMWn8fVMjAOeiuCOMMc0rvXFmQvSm5
DbjudvTpMO9pdh9OW5xIYi07arYc/3Cl/kJ1uvAzI+QshPu+8aQT4WlXZba9Pnfu
jpOMYE54yrU=
=hYgB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:01:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: Xcel Charcter Sheet
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 37
Hero-Game-Masters:
Here's a list of the majority of the comic book characters (and their
point totals) from the Deejay pages as hosted by Shelley. Most of these
were done by Sam, Spock, George, Larson, and many others contributed as
well. Now that I've dropped enough names, I'll get to my point. :)
I figured the average point values for all these characters: 529 points.
To me it seems the majority of these are way over the power
level urged on new players: Meaning the 250 point beginning
hero, 100 base points plus 150 disads. Also around 70% of these
weigh in well high of the "high-powered" character of 375 points.
Even when you toss out the high end like Superboy, and the low-end
such as Tarantula, the average is still a hefty 488 points.
So my question is:
Where does everyone's Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level fall? <<<
Mine is right at 475 points. But then I'm often getting told
what a disgustingly powerful campaign I run. My players started
at 150 point base, plus up to 225 points of Disads, and most have
around 100 points of experience or other bonuses. The Campaign's
been running with basically the same line-up for 7 months, playing
weekly. Comments anyone?
--
Elliott
(Statistics Follow)
Of 158 Heroes Examined:
========================
250 points: 8
375 points: 43
500 points: 45 Information Source:
750 points: 40 ===================
over 750: 22
http://www.mactyre.net/scm/deejay/champs/writeups.html
Mean: 528.53 Duo-Damsel 442
Dream-Girl 441
Median: 487.74 Tellus 439
Tyroc 439
Lightning-Lad 433
Lightning-Lass 433
Black-Panther 428
Superman 1661 Psylocke 427
Supergirl 1650 Robotman 425
Superboy 1583 Tiger-Shark 423
Spectre 1497 Baron-Zemo 422
Mon-El 1479 Rocket-Red 422
Thor 1230 Atmos 414
Flash 1223 Sunspot 414
Martian-Manhunter 1180 Havok 410
Absorbing-Man 1104 Fire 408
Green-Lantern 996 Star-Boy 405
Enchantress 907 Tigra 403
Shrinking-Violet 905 Black-Canary 401
Klaw 883 Black-Knight 399
Iron-Man 854 Hawkman 395
Chameleon-Boy 810 Phantom-Girl 395
Hercules 798 Hawkwoman 390
Storm 793 Invisible-Kid 387
Human-Torch 787 Puck 387
Vision 779 Wasp 385
Captain-Marvel 776 Iron-Monroe 379
Maxima 758 Blue-Beetle 377
Ultra-Boy 752 Fixer 372
Wonder-Woman 752 Shaman 371
Wonderman 727 Beetle 368
Johnny-Quick 720 Warpath 366
Professor-X 714 Shadowcat 362
Wolverine 713 Wrecker 362
Blok 707 Shatterstar 357
Dawnstar 705 Shining-Knight 357
Mr-Fantastic 697 Bouncing-Boy 356
G-A-Flash 695 Magnetic-Kid 355
Goliath 690 Domino 349
Executioner 686 Titania 349
Invisible-Woman 645 Scarlet-Witch 344
Starfox 640 Beast 342
White-Witch 631 Commander-Steel 342
Power-Girl 628 G-A-Hawkman 341
Thing 625 Guardian 341
Cable 624 Fury 340
Moonstone 617 Mockingbird 337
Captain-America 609 Scorpion 333
Grey-Gargoyle 592 Starman 328
Brainiac-5 589 Green-Arrow 325
Radioactive-Man 582 Firebrand 322
Colossal-Boy 579 Hawkeye 322
She-Hulk 579 Sandman 318
Elongated-Man 571 Boom-Boom 314
Uncle-Sam 558 Falcon 314
Colossus 557 Deadpool 311
Timber-Wolf 555 Judomaster 304
Cyclops 552 Ice 302
Batman 546 Screaming-Mimi 296
Iceman 546 Crimson-Avenger 290
Richard-Kent 545 Liberty-Belle 290
Sif 545 Air-Wave 288
Karate-Kid 543 Shocker 277
Archangel 542 Jubilee 274
Mr-Miracle 535 Dr-Mid-Nite 271
Quicksilver 518 Husk 270
Banshee 516 Synch 270
Whirlwind 516 Wrecking-Crew 267
Jocasta 515 Wolfsbane 266
Dr-Light 513 Tarantula 242
Sun-Boy 504 Hourman 239
Chemical-King 499 Wildcat 235
Dr-Fate 497 Amazing-Man 229
Shadow-Lass 496 Atom 227
Yellowjacket 496 Melter 226
Aquaman 492 Matter-Eater-Lad 220
Rogue 492 Egghead 198
Marvel-Girl 490
Blackout 486
Cosmic-Boy 481
Polar-Boy 474
Nightcrawler 472
Sunfire 466
Siryn 452
Black-Widow 449 All these names are copyright
Beast 447 somebody and neither this list nor the
Mr-Hyde 445 write-ups referenced could
Cannonball 444 possibly be seen as a challenge to
that.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 20 Nov 97 03:42:28 GMT
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!michael.adams
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 42
Personnally most animals I know unless they are totally inbred are often less
dependent on their so called master than people think. But heh I live in Alaska
were some people confuses humans with animals. Most cats/dogs and such if cut
off from huamsn will take care of themselves quite nicely (though I know a
chichuaua that was totally useless or two) though not as fat, lazy, and coach
potato as their home bound fellows. I will agree to take care of a dog lot of
dogs can be time consuming and such, but that is the fun of dog mushing
(feeding, training, caring for, and a small multitude of things.). Basically
contrary to what some people liek to think, most pets are pretty competent and
though living with humans is nicer than living the wild life, many times we
need them more than they need us.
Maybe have a dog or cat hero and have a DNPC human (grin).
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 20 Nov 97 03:48:34 GMT
Subject: Star Ship Trooper Game?
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!michael.adams
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 40
Is there any such animal? If there is, how close to the book versus the movie?
Morgoth
X-Sender: scm@mail.aci.net
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:10:13 -0800
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <shelley@mactyre.net>
Subject: Campaign Power Levels
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 41
At 09:01 PM 11/19/97 -0500, Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>Where does everyone's Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level fall? <<<
>
>Mine is right at 475 points. But then I'm often getting told
>what a disgustingly powerful campaign I run. My players started
>at 150 point base, plus up to 225 points of Disads, and most have
>around 100 points of experience or other bonuses. The Campaign's
>been running with basically the same line-up for 7 months, playing
>weekly. Comments anyone?
It depends entirely on what I want to accomplish with a campaign. When I
want heroes that can save the world and have experience, the game (Hudson
Hawks, Golden Gate Guardians, other older games) starts at 400 points (and
that's making them all buy requisite skills and perks, of course <g>).
When I want characters of minimal power level and high skill, the game is
200 points (Armitage Investigations, Inc.). For inexperienced characters
of reasonable power level, it's 250 points (Hudson City 11367). Honestly,
it doesn't matter to me anymore what the power level of the game is.
Combat is usually what happens to in order to find out more of the plot,
and isn't the plot itself (usually -- I do run mindless combats on occasion
just to throw people off...or at least, that's my excuse when I'm really
unprepared).
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
www.mactyre.net
Your children will see the stars.
--Robert A. Heinlein
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:19:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Star Ship Trooper Game?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 44
On 20 Nov 1997, Michael Adams wrote:
> Is there any such animal? If there is, how close to the book versus the movie?
Avalon Hill had/has such a beast, and from what I've heard it follows the
book quite well.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:02:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Star Ship Trooper Game?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 47
> On 20 Nov 1997, Michael Adams wrote:
>
> > Is there any such animal? If there is, how close to the book versus the movie?
>
> Avalon Hill had/has such a beast, and from what I've heard it follows the
> book quite well.
It was a pretty cool wargame. The Skinny's were easy but the bugs were
pretty tough. The tunnel system was tricky at times to use in the game,
because it was done on a separate sheet. A computer game version would be
really good.
TokyoMark
X-Sender: scm@mail.aci.net
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:59:01 -0800
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <shelley@mactyre.net>
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 50
At 10:57 PM 11/19/97 +0500, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>Michael Adams wrote:
>>Maybe have a dog or cat hero and have a DNPC human (grin).
>>
>Yeah, but I haven't had anyone want to play Rin-Tin-Tin, or Rex, The Wonder
>Dog, yet...
A fellow player in my husband's GURPS Traveller game, oh, about four years
ago now, brought in a cat PC. Made raiding the Vargr base *really*
interesting! =)
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
www.mactyre.net
Your children will see the stars.
--Robert A. Heinlein
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:06:35 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 49
> "No size change shrinking"? :[___] <- jawdrop
A little out there, but valid.
> I suppose after "non-insubstantial Desolidification" and "can-be-seen
> Invisibility", the trend of "f*** the purpose and just lift the mechanics"
> was bound to continue.
Oh, come off it! Champions is a game of mechanics used to define
effects. There's no such thing as a default effect, repeat, no such thing
as a default effect. I'd actually call the above Shrinking with the Invis
Power effect -- it's an advantage, not a limitation.
> What's next? Multiform, does not change? Swimming, not in water?
Can't really think of any uses for the other two, mostly because
of what mechanics they grant. Gliding, only along the ground is a very
valid mechanic, however.
-Tim Gilberg
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 02:00:29 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 12:06 AM 11/20/97 -0600, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
> Oh, come off it! Champions is a game of mechanics used to define
>effects. There's no such thing as a default effect, repeat, no such thing
>as a default effect. I'd actually call the above Shrinking with the Invis
>Power effect -- it's an advantage, not a limitation.
I'm not talking about a "default effect". This is written into the
mechanics: Shrinking is defined from sentence one as "A character with this
Size Power can decrease in size". That's what the power DOES -- it makes
you smaller. That's ALL it does. Everything else under the description is
merely an explanation of the benefits of being that small.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 02:00:31 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 10:51 AM 11/20/97 -0600, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>> > Can't really think of any uses for the other two, mostly because
>> >of what mechanics they grant. Gliding, only along the ground is a very
>> >valid mechanic, however.
>>
>> Yep. Put it in an OAF and call it a skateboard. :-]
>
> Heck, I was thinking just to not leave traces of passing.
It would be far more valid to just buy Invisible Power Effects on one's
running, and just about as cheap. "Gliding along the ground" is a nonce
construction, since you must drop 1" per Phase to maintain your forward
velocity, and you don't HAVE the 1" to drop.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: nezmaster@ntr.net
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 05:05:04 -0500
From: Nez Master <nezmaster@ntr.net>
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 52
At 10:57 PM 11/19/97 +0500, you wrote:
>Michael Adams wrote:
>>Maybe have a dog or cat hero and have a DNPC human (grin).
>>
>Yeah, but I haven't had anyone want to play Rin-Tin-Tin, or Rex, The Wonder
>Dog, yet...
If in the same point class, I'll do it. IT would be really neat! Especially
in a heroic game. The difficulty would be being left out of the
communicating. But I'd love doing it for a few games. And I refuse to
pantomine with it, (not having hands and all.).
>
>- Jerry
>
>
-------------------------Nez Master--------------------
Second founder of the backwards philosophy
http://www.ntr.net/~nezmaster
Nothing is certain
_______________________________________________________
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:47:12 +0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 12:27 PM 11/20/97 -0800, mcallahan@home.com wrote:
>I was in a game where the Gm allowed a DNPC:pet dog, the player had also
>thought that it should be taken as incompetent. So the GM gave him an
>incopetent dog...
>GM "You hear a "woof, thunk" from the bedroom
>Player "Oh great, Sparkys locked himself in the closet again"
>It ended up as a running joke for the whole campaign.
>
<snicker...> No, I wouldn't make it an incompetent, just Incompetent.
After all, it's point total is -25... as you wrote it, anyway. I might even
give it some skills, or something... And, yes, it'll be a running gag, but
only really because I'm going to have it get hit with a Growth Ray or
something... : )
>An "about this big" Pot bellied pig writeup
<greatly appreciated write-up snipped>
>1 pip HKA reduced penetration (bite)
What would this *do*, anyway? 1/2 pip of damage x2, applied against
Resistant Defenses... it works *exactly* like the same power w/o Reduced
Penetration. It's still completely stopped by 1 rPD. I might translate it
to 1d6 No Range EB... still has a (theoretical) chance to do BODY, but
won't, usually. Maybe even make it Reduced Penetration, to reflect how most
bites are written up.
>Total cost -25 pts
>
See? I told you it was Incompetent! lol
>You might want to up the int to 7, that would put it in the
>dolphin/great ape range of intelligence
>
What *are* the intelligence ranges for animals, anyway?
>"Have you seen anything unusual"
>"We saw an elephant make love to a pig"
>"No, no, I said UNUSUAL
>
Maybe I should ask for a write-up for an elephant, too... lol
"Kick ass!"
- Jerry
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 05:54:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
X-Sender: bastet@iquest7
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 54
>
> If in the same point class, I'll do it. IT would be really neat! Especially
> in a heroic game. The difficulty would be being left out of the
> communicating. But I'd love doing it for a few games. And I refuse to
> pantomine with it, (not having hands and all.).
>
I'd be tempted (If the GM allowed) to get a mind link with another PC so
we could do the classic Lassie stuff.
Lassie: Bark!
Billy: What's that, girl? Mom's in the barn and it's on fire?
TokyoMark
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 03:30:54 -0800
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: DCH to Hero conversion help needed
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 53
Gypsy wrote:
>
> Lisa Hartjes wrote:
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > I've got a really old campaign idea from a DC Heroes game I was a player in
> > and I'm thinking of seeing if I can convert it to Hero. The help I need is
> > for converting power levels. For example, how many AP's would a level of 2
> > be for powers? What skill roll would result from a 2 in Detective?
> >
> > If there is a conversion chart out there, I'd appreciate it if someone can
> > lead me to it.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your help!
> >
> > Lisa Hartjes
> > beren@unforgettable.com
> > Home: http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/daniken/79
> > "What do you mean, don't press the red button......."
>
> There was an article on coverting DC Heros characters to Champions in the
> Adventures Club #10, summer 1987, issue. It was by George MacDonald and Steve
> Peterson.
>
> Gypsy
If you find it, though, be careful and only use the results as a
_guideline_ for your characters; that's the conversion system which
gave Batman a SPD 7....
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Subject: Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 97 07:46:24 -0500
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <DFair@sdslink.com>
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 55
>Where does everyone's Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level fall? <<<
I long ago got disgusted by how much you couldn't buy with the standard
250 points (background skills, perks, etc). To design an average
professional person in america today takes anywhere from 150-175 points.
To do myself (several hobbies, college degree, Combat Flight [A-10], car,
base, other skills) took 168 points!
These days our characters are built as people first, with all the
experiences & background stuff you want to fit your conception. It's all
free. You can then spend up to 250 points on combat/adventuring stuff. If
your background is used heavily in your adventuring, then you have to pay
for half of it.
| David A. Fair
Think Different | SDS International
| dfair@sdslink.com
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:12:00 +0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Reduced END Movement & NCM
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 06:57 PM 11/20/97 -0500, Eric Burns wrote:
>Flight - 10" (20pts), x16 NCM (x32) (+20pts = 40pts)
>
>So far so good. Now here's the rub: GFH wants to buy the advantage
>1/2 END (+1/4) for his flight power. Does this advantage apply
>just to the 10", or does GFH have to purchase it on the whole
>power. In other words, does GFH's flight power look like this:
>
>Flight - 10" (20pts), 1/2 END [+1/4] (+5 = 25pts);
> x16 NCM (x32) (+20pts = 45pts)
>
I would let the Player buy this, and it would mean that he only gets the 1/2
END cost at speeds up to his base x2 NCM. If he goes faster, he burns full END.
I also let Players buy differing END costs on parts of a Power. Ex: EBs
that are exponentially difficult (higher END cost for additional dice).
>or like this:
>
>Flight - 10" (20pts), x16 NCM (x32) (+20pts = 40pts),
> 1/2 END [+1/4] (+10pts = 50pts)
>
This is the way most characters buy it. This is standard.
>I tend to think the second is correct, but an example in the BBB
>(mosquito) seems to do it the first way. What do you think, folks?
>
Actually, if you look at him, he's only supposed to have TEN inches of
Flight... the give away is that this now works out to the 45 points listed,
and gives the 80" listed under max flight speed, after NCM.
Flight - 10"(20pts), +x4 NCM (total: x8, 80" Noncombat) (+10pts = 30pts), 0
END [+1/4] (+15pts). 45 points.
- Jerry
ps - I never caught this before, because I never looked that closely at
Mosquito...
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 06:02:56 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 56
At 12:06 AM 11/20/97 -0600, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>> What's next? Multiform, does not change? Swimming, not in water?
>
> Can't really think of any uses for the other two, mostly because
>of what mechanics they grant. Gliding, only along the ground is a very
>valid mechanic, however.
Yep. Put it in an OAF and call it a skateboard. :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:07:22 -0500 (EST)
From: "D. Michael Basinger" <dbasinge@arches.uga.edu>
X-Sender: dbasinge@archa13.cc.uga.edu
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: DCH to Hero conversion help needed
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 57
On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, Captain Spith wrote:
> Gypsy wrote:
> >
> > There was an article on coverting DC Heros characters to Champions in the
> > Adventures Club #10, summer 1987, issue. It was by George MacDonald and Steve
> > Peterson.
> >
> > Gypsy
>
> If you find it, though, be careful and only use the results as a
> _guideline_ for your characters; that's the conversion system which
> gave Batman a SPD 7....
The way Batman is written in the comics, he is one of the few "Normals" I
would let have a SPD 7.
Mike
--
D. Michael Basinger
dbasinge@arches.uga.edu
http://www.arches.uga.edu/~dbasinge
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 19:07:54 +0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 03:43 PM 11/20/97 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 07:02 PM 11/20/97 -0500, Eric Burns wrote:
>>> Int 2 fish, sharks, snakes
>>> Int 3 rabbits, bats, owls
>>> Int 4 rats, wolverines, mules
>>> Int 5 Horses bears, eagles
>>> Int 6 cats, dogs, dumb monkies
>>> Int 7 dolphins, smart monkies
>>> At least thats what the beastiary has to say
>>>
>>> mcallahan@home.com
>>>
>>
>>Int 4 the average television writer
>>Int 3 people who call psychic hotlines
>
> Int 2 Fox TV Network daytime programming executives
>
Especially whoever decided to axe The Tick.
- Jerry
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:12:09 -0500 (EST)
From: "D. Michael Basinger" <dbasinge@arches.uga.edu>
X-Sender: dbasinge@archa13.cc.uga.edu
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 58
On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, David Fair wrote:
> >Where does everyone's Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level fall? <<<
>
> I long ago got disgusted by how much you couldn't buy with the standard
> 250 points (background skills, perks, etc). To design an average
> professional person in america today takes anywhere from 150-175 points.
> To do myself (several hobbies, college degree, Combat Flight [A-10], car,
> base, other skills) took 168 points!
I usually start with a base of 125, and encourge people to use those 25
pts to flesh out the character.
Mike
--
D. Michael Basinger
dbasinge@arches.uga.edu
http://www.arches.uga.edu/~dbasinge
X-Authentication-Warning: listbox2.cern.ch: Host sp052.cern.ch [137.138.129.237] claimed to be sp052
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:57:38 +0100
From: Maiko Real <Maiko.Real@cern.ch>
Organization: CERN. European Lab. for Particle Physics
Subject: (no subject)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 59
Hi, I'm desperatly searching for a champion's fantasy-hero campaign(s)
and characters....
I hope that you can help me please!
Cheers,
Maiko
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:34:08 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Marvel Conversions: Doctor Doom
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Anyone here have the stats for Doctor Doom converted from
Marvel into Champions?
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:25:30 -0600 (CST)
X-Sender: psansone@i1.net
From: psansone@i1.net (Sparx)
Subject: Re: fantasy hero campaign help
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>Anyway, my reason for posting: I would like to ask some help from any
>experienced Fantasy Hero GMs out there.
>
>My specific questions:
>
>1. Do you allow martial arts? If so, do you allow them to be used with
>weapons?
My gaming group has built specific martial arts packages that can be allowed
in Fantasy Hero. Usually these packages come with the disadvantage: Code vs
Weapons stating that the person would never rely upon a mere weapon when he
or she can do so much better. There is also a limited armor class we allow
due to the fact it is hard to do a flying kick in plate mail. I don't
remember all of the different packages right now, but there were 4 or 5, I
know one we had was a weapon specialist martial arts class, they were the
only ones that were allowed weapons and usually had Find Weakness with a
specific weapon and/or different levels with that weapon.
>2. What magic system do you use? I'm leaning towards the one they use
>in the books (with the colleges), but I'm not real thrilled with some of
>the limitations that they include (especially the 'must have x points in
>the college')
We use the Colleges from the book, but usually when building the character
take out the X points in college, however I have had players that use it,
either way is fine with me as long as they stick to the limitation if they
take it.
>3. What kind of damage/defenses should these guys be throwing around?
>I'll be starting with (probably) 150 pt characters (is that too high?)
We started our last game with 250 points, though it was kind of high, it was
a heavily skills oriented game so many points when into skills, then magic
items, and spells. Weapons that could be bought with gold were just bought
with gold. Experience points were handed out very rarely on account of the
fact we started a high campaign and when you have the chance to buy better
stuff with gold (including some magic items), that sort of replaces the need
for experience points in a way. Starting the game we were allowed no more
than 45 active points offense and no more than 12 points of DEF.
>4. Do you restrict adjustment powers? a couple of dice of
>aid/drain/transfer in a fantasy campaign (where power defense will be
>next to non-existant) seems to be VERY overpowered.
Powers weren't a major part of any of our campaigns unless they came from
magic, in which case we normally ran spells straight from the book with very
few changes.
>5. Are there any limitations you encourage/disallow on magic?
None I can think of off hand.
>6. What do you do about races? I don't like the way the packages in the
>book do them, especially the characteristic maxima part and some of the
>hokey psych lims. I'm thinking about rewriting them to not include the
>hokey psych lims (hates goblins? This seems more like a role playing
>issue than a psych lim), and to just buy the extra stats outright - a
>dwarf will start with a 13 strenght instead of a 10. If he wants to buy
>it above 20, he pays double just like everyone else. (the way the
>packages are NOW, he is paying the extra pts to go to 23 whether he does
>it or not)
Personally, I like the packages. That's me though. I like your idea, but
now you are re-writing every package, which gives you little time to come up
with new packages. We managed to extend are races about 5 or 6 more before
gametime by brainstorming package ideas. As for the Hates Goblins, well,
yes, that very well could be role played, but it could be a psych lim. I
don't remember what package has that off hand, but if it were a Dwarf you
could claim there has been a great Dwarven-Goblin War going on for the past
years in your RPG world and most Dwarves would naturally hate goblins due to
that fact.
>7. Do you do anything with gods? I'm thinking about using the 'Faiths
>and Avatars' book for AD&D (one of the best books they ever put out). If
>a PC wants to play a religous based character, I'll write up the granted
>powers and make them part of a package. Is this more trouble than its
>worth?
I don't really make much use of gods yet. In the AD&D campaign I ran a
while back I had a Paladin of Artemis so she came into play. I woiuld bring
them into Fantasy Hero if it ever got around to a religious area of the
cleric in question, but for the most part my players aren't that concerned.
The only Sun Priest we have worships the Sun, no god, just the Sun. That
was one way he could have played the character and he did a good job of it.
I suppose he could have made it a god, but he knew it was the sun, and he
honored it. Did a good job role playing it too.
>Any help would be VERY much appreciated. In fact, if anybody would like
>to discuss this further off-list, please email me at badtodd@dacmail.net
>(not the address on this message - I only send email from that address)
>
>Thanks!
Well, hope I helped out a bit. If you do want to discuss this off list,
feel free to e-mail me. Granted I only check this mailbox about once or
twice a week so I can't guarantee how quickly I'll get back with you. Take
it easy and talk at you later.
Sparx
=====================================================
Dog for sale: eats anything and is fond of children.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Check out #herochat on DALnet an IRC for Champions Conversation
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net (Mike Lehmann)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:37:12 -0800
Organization: Terminal BBS (403)327-9731
Subject: Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 9
>Where does everyone's Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level fall? <<<
Lemme see...
For heroes, 100 Base + 0 to 20 Gift Points + 130 to 150 Disads.
For villains, 100 Base + 150 Disads + 11 to 30 XP/"Villain bonus".
Gift points are given for character writeup, creativity, and all-around
effort by a new player. Villains are given a little extra "oomph", but
heroes tend to have a few less flaws.
Some of our oldest players have earned approximately 20 XP (1 week of
game time or 2 years of real time ;), but we also have new players
coming into the campaign.
GM: mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net | Justice Krewe
Webpage: http://www.dfw.net/~aronhead/justice_krewe.html | Knightwatch
Short waiting list, lurkers welcome (Write to me!)... | Enigma Watch
... The tyrant is never safe from those whom he oppresses.
~~~ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net <<<<<<<<<<<
The TERMINAL BBS Fidonet; 1:358/17
Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada 1:358/18
This message was processed by NetXpres (403)327-9741
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:47:05 -0600 (CST)
X-Sender: psansone@i1.net
From: psansone@i1.net (Sparx)
Subject: Re: Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>> >Where does everyone's Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level fall?
My normal Super Hero Campaign falls at around 300 points.
I usually run Heroic (Star Guardians and Fantasy Hero) around 150 points to
200 points.
Dark Champions I was thinking of doing around 250 points but have yet to run
one, Suggestions??
Lately I've run some lower level SuperHeroic 200 pts and I'm getting a 250
point ready prepped now, but for my normal game group we started at 300 some
of the players after years of playing are around the 400 - 500 point area
now. Take it easy and talk at you later.
Sparx
=====================================================
Dog for sale: eats anything and is fond of children.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Check out #herochat on DALnet an IRC for Champions Conversation
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:48:58 -0500
From: Bruce Crow <BCROW@cnmc.org>
Subject: (no subject) -Reply
Content-Disposition: inline
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>Hi, I'm desperatly searching for a champion's fantasy-hero campaign(s)
>and characters....
>I hope that you can help me please!
> Cheers,
> Maiko
Are you looking for a campaign to join locally or published materials?
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:51:27 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> > Can't really think of any uses for the other two, mostly because
> >of what mechanics they grant. Gliding, only along the ground is a very
> >valid mechanic, however.
>
> Yep. Put it in an OAF and call it a skateboard. :-]
Heck, I was thinking just to not leave traces of passing.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:40:40 -0800
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
Subject: Re: Marvel Conversions: Doctor Doom
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-> From RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu Thu Nov 20 07:31:58 1997
-> Subject: Marvel Conversions: Doctor Doom
-> X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
-> MIME-version: 1.0
-> X-Hero: champ-l
-> To: champ-l@omg.org
->
-> Anyone here have the stats for Doctor Doom converted from
-> Marvel into Champions?
->
Dr Doom (Victor von Doom)
18 Str 8 15 +15 Str, Doesn't Add to Figured, 0 End
20 Dex 30 120 32/32 Hardened Armor
18 Con 16 60 1/2 Resistant Physical and Energy Damage Reduction
14 Bod 8 22 Life Support: Self Contained Breathing, Pressure,
28 Int 18 Temperature, Radiation, Disease
23 Ego 26 5 Lack of Weakness
23 Pre 13 10 Flash Def
10 Com - 15 23pts Mental Def
8 Pd 4 89 33" Flight, 0 End, x8 non-combat, 1/2 DCV (-1/4)
8 Ed 4 3 Bump of Direction "Gyroscopic Guidance System"
5 Spd 20
8 Rec - 135 18d6 Energy Blast, 0 End
36 End - 200 30/30 Forcewall, Hardened, Personal Immunity, 0 End, No Rng
40 Stn 8
--- 9 Telescopic Vision, +6 vs Range Mods
155 25 Radar, 360 degrees
10 High Range Radio Hearning
3 Linguist
10 4pts English, 4pts German, 3pts French, 3pts Latin
6 KS: Magical Planes, Talismans, Extra-dimensional Beings 11-
9 Bureacratics, High Society, Oratory 14-
24 Comp Programming, Cryptography, Deduction, Inventor,
Paramedic, Sec Systems, Systems Op, Tactics 15-
6 Electronics, Mechanics 11-
6 Weaponsmith: Slugthowers, Energy 11-
3 Scientist
6 Astrophysics, Biophysics, Chemistry, Metallurgy,
Robotics, Temporal Physics 11-
30 3 Overall levels
15 +3 w/Int Based Skills
25 +5 w/Science Skills
6 +3 w/Robotics
15 Filthy Rich
10 Head of State
---
+892 = 1047
100+
25 Distinctive Features: Either mask or horribly scarred face. Not concealable,
Extreme reaction
25 Psyche: Megalomaniac (Very Common, Total)
25 Psyche: Honorable (Very Common, Total)
20 Psyche: Protects subjects (Common, Total)
15 Psyche: Protects works of art (Uncommon, Total)
15 Psyche: Wants to redeem mother (Uncommon, Total)
20 Psyche: Hates Reed Richards (Common, Total)
20 Psyche: Arrogant (Common, Strong)
10 Public ID
20 Reputation: Megalomaniacal dictator & global threat, 14-
752 The rest of his Psyche disads
----
1047
This is a rather simple version of Marvel's ultimate baddy. He has used a lot of
different weapons down the years, but he always comes back to simple gauntlet-blasters.
The forcewall I gave him is pretty wimpy, since the real thing is supposed to
let him survive a close range a-bomb. It should suffice for most campaigns.
His 10 Com is with the mask on. Without the mask, it is considerably lower.
===============================================================================
Character write-up by Sam Bell. Permission granted to duplicate and trasmit,
as long as this note is not removed. Send comments to sam@shonen.Eng.Sun.COM
===============================================================================
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:35:39 -0500
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Vox said:
>I'm not talking about a "default effect". This is written into the
>mechanics: Shrinking is defined from sentence one as "A character
>with this Size Power can decrease in size". That's what the power
>DOES -- it makes you smaller. That's ALL it does. Everything else
>under the description is merely an explanation of the benefits of
>being that small.
Something I sometimes do when identifying the effects of a power is to
imagine: "What if there were no visible effects to this at all?" I then
look at merely the effects and see what else might possibly fit it.
That's how I designed the Shrinking possessor.
The same method led me to invisible Invisibility (an oxymoron if I ever
heard one). Is has the result of putting attackers without special
senses at 0 OCV. This makes it a reasonable approximation of an
invulnerability field.
Dave Mattingly
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 97 18:44:23
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Nested Force Walls
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:58:39 -0600, Jeff Hebert wrote:
>I have a player who wants his character to throw nested force walls -- one
>transparent to PD, the other to ED. When centered together, they would
>effectively make one force wall.
>
>My question to the list is, can he throw both in one phase, or must he
>throw them separately?
>
>The BBB states that to establish a FW at range requires an attack roll to
>target the hex. My argument is that when he throws the first one, that
>attack roll terminates his phase, and he can't throw the second one until
>his next phase. His argument is that in terms of special effects they are
>basically the same wall, and since he isn't targeting a person or doing
>actual damage, we should bend the rules a bit to allow them both to go off
>at once.
>
>What are your thoughts on the matter?
What you really have is three versions of one power. So either buy it
as a multipower with ultra slots, or as a power with a Partially
Limited Variable Advantage and/or Variable Limitations
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
X-Sender: jhebert@texas.net (Unverified)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:58:39 -0600
From: Jeff Hebert <jhebert@texas.net>
Subject: Nested Force Walls
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
I have a player who wants his character to throw nested force walls -- one
transparent to PD, the other to ED. When centered together, they would
effectively make one force wall.
My question to the list is, can he throw both in one phase, or must he
throw them separately?
The BBB states that to establish a FW at range requires an attack roll to
target the hex. My argument is that when he throws the first one, that
attack roll terminates his phase, and he can't throw the second one until
his next phase. His argument is that in terms of special effects they are
basically the same wall, and since he isn't targeting a person or doing
actual damage, we should bend the rules a bit to allow them both to go off
at once.
What are your thoughts on the matter?
Jeff
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeff Hebert
jhebert@texas.net
Visit the home page of The Crusaders! --
http://lonestar.texas.net/~jhebert/crusaders.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:17:48 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Subject: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
This is Professor X's half-brother. He found a mystical stone which
gave him powers. See if your heroes can scratch this guy :p
Name : Juggernaut
Secret ID:
Value Char Cost Base Max Pts
50 Str........x1 10 N/A 40
7 Dex........x3 10 N/A -9
49 Con........x2 10 N/A 78
47 Body.......x2 10 N/A 74
10 Int........x1 10 N/A 0
16 Ego........x2 10 N/A 12
23 Pre........x1 10 N/A 13
10 Com........x.5 10 N/A 0
10 PD.........x1 10 N/A 0
10 ED.........x1 10 N/A 0
1 SPD........x10 1.7 N/A -7
20 Rec........x2 20 N/A 0
98 End........x.5 98 N/A 0
99 Stun.......x1 97 N/A 2
Characteristics Cost: 203
Disadvantages 0+ Pts.
Income Level Poor 5
DF: his size 20
Physical Lim: can't swim 15
PL: Overconfidence 15
Reputation (11-) 10
pts. Power/Skill END
438 Armor (73, 73) 0
4 x Hardened (+1)
13 Growth: 400kg, +10 STR, -2"KB, -1DCV, 0
+1 PER roll against, +2 BODY and STUN,
height: 3m
Always on (-1/2)
0 END (+1/2)
Persistent (+1/2)
32 Mental Defense: -43 to mental attacks 0
Provided by his helmet IIF(-1/4)
40 Regeneration: 6 BODY/Turn 0
Only if he takes no dam during a turn(-1/2)
-3 Enhanced Senses: -1 PER roll with all senses 0
Life Support
3 immunity to radiation
10 need not to breath
1 immunity to intense cold
3 immunity to disease
4 Knowledge: Military (13-)
25 5 Combat Skills with melee combat
68 Running +34"
Exp: Disadvantages Total: 65 634:Powers / Skills Cost
-772 Experience Spent+ 772 203+Characteristics Cost
Total Points= 837 837=Total Cost
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 00:18:02 +0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
Looks like this write-up is translated right from a certain MSH web-page I
been lookin' at. Seems like Rodrigo did a pretty good job, too. Pretty
faithful to their home-brew write-up of Juggy, which is supposed to be current.
- Jerry
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Nested Force Walls
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 20 Nov 1997 14:18:47 -0500
Lines: 44
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "JH" == Jeff Hebert <jhebert@texas.net> writes:
JH> I have a player who wants his character to throw nested force walls --
JH> one transparent to PD, the other to ED. When centered together, they
JH> would effectively make one force wall.
Um, not quite, but close enough.
JH> My question to the list is, can he throw both in one phase, or must he
JH> throw them separately?
Unless he is somehow limited, such as with a Multipower, there is nothing
preventing him from using as many powers in his action phase as he desires,
other than the need to spend Endurance.
JH> The BBB states that to establish a FW at range requires an attack roll
JH> to target the hex. My argument is that when he throws the first one,
JH> that attack roll terminates his phase, and he can't throw the second
JH> one until his next phase.
Nothing in the BBB prevents him from "throwing" both Force Walls at once,
as a single action. There are several examples in the BBB of multiple
powers being used simultaneously to make a single attack. Whether or not
you, as the GM, decide that this requires a power modifier is your call as
a GM. My opinion is that it does not, but there is no solid, "official"
ruling at this time.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNHSNE56VRH7BJMxHAQGqqAP+J9fSEs+aNQEYAqOO11FIcsuOEpXfDRZc
UQp4V1u4DOSyxOFOpLbakZzwXhI5D0jvDNZ4FTuyBanQmqf7Q0PnWxzdt1ARup21
1+YueCTHqYWuoH+af2P+ThZNyrm2GydCKb3Kj4B921xx+WoB+3zVaDBdeZ5vd0v4
SQfU6xGTIHE=
=0J6J
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:21:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Nested Force Walls
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Jeff Hebert writes:
> I have a player who wants his character to throw nested force walls -- one
> transparent to PD, the other to ED. When centered together, they would
> effectively make one force wall.
>
> My question to the list is, can he throw both in one phase, or must he
> throw them separately?
>
> The BBB states that to establish a FW at range requires an attack roll to
> target the hex. My argument is that when he throws the first one, that
> attack roll terminates his phase, and he can't throw the second one until
> his next phase. His argument is that in terms of special effects they are
> basically the same wall, and since he isn't targeting a person or doing
> actual damage, we should bend the rules a bit to allow them both to go off
> at once.
>
> What are your thoughts on the matter?
See the Great Linked Debate (tm) rear its ugly head! Basically, the answer to
this depends on your answer to the GLD.
Camp 1 says you can use more than one power in a phase, you just can't make
more than one attack roll. This means that if you have two attack powers, you
can use them simultaneously on a target with a single attack roll. If you take
this choice, he can clearly use both force walls at once, as long as its on a
single target.
Camp 2 says that the linked disadvantage is somehow _special_, and that you can
only use two attack powers at once if they're linked. In this case, he could
use the force walls together if he takes the 'linked' disadvantage on one of
them -- and he would _have_ to take the linked disadvantage, and would have to
use them together.
Incidentally, _why_ does he want to do this in the first place? So he can have
a wall where if the PD goes down the ED doesn't? So he can _choose_ to block
physical, energy, or both? The first one doesn't make much sense, the second
one can probably be resolved better with a multipower (1 slot with regular FW,
one with PD-transparent, 1 with ED-transparent).
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 20 Nov 1997 14:26:24 -0500
Lines: 27
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "DM" == Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com> writes:
DM> Something I sometimes do when identifying the effects of a power is to
DM> imagine: "What if there were no visible effects to this at all?"
The flaw in your reasoning is to assume that powers have effects. They do
not. Effects have powers. You look at the effect to determine the powers
to use, not the other way around. Otherwise you wind up with exactly this
situation: misuse of a power when another will work better.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNHSO256VRH7BJMxHAQHmZwP/VhfwEfmYtmQpicQ4W+6TMfJyT55qRLqn
ONQ1pOtzEbeeWeq1oorn2xaPY+IoRP6D2qv2dGPClp2v+Z75k0cKZIeHxgq+0jGv
9yliDHDXIzoZomoBTsTW9R8n5JlKGU4gRK1MnU4OIjY94L8erklwEP1OardSP3QG
3qYDUram28A=
=TVsh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:31:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria writes:
>
> This is Professor X's half-brother. He found a mystical stone which
> gave him powers. See if your heroes can scratch this guy :p
Probably...the stun lottery is your friend. Not a very accurate conversion
anyway.
>
> Name : Juggernaut
> Secret ID:
> Value Char Cost Base Max Pts
> 50 Str........x1 10 N/A 40
Going by OHTMU stats, Juggernaut has STR 60. Going by demonstrated abilities,
he has a strength of 80-90, with extra strength only usable to avoid being
stopped.
> 7 Dex........x3 10 N/A -9
Rather low. Juggernaut is less agile than most heroes, but he isn't notably
more clumsy than a normal human. I'd give him 10 or 11.
> 1 SPD........x10 1.7 N/A -7
The closest equivalent to 'spd' in comic books is 'number of panels received'.
By this measure Juggs has a SPD of at least 4.
>
> Disadvantages 0+ Pts.
> Income Level Poor 5
Um...no. He has plenty of money, from Black Tom and all. He doesn't care much
about money, though.
>
>
> pts. Power/Skill END
> 68 Running +34"
Um...just give him +4" running with a speed of 4. He doesn't teleport about
the battlefield or anything.
Also, he should have at least 10" of knockback resistance, probably more like
15-20".
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:41:10 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: McAfee
Subject: Re: Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
David Fair wrote:
>
> >Where does everyone's Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level fall? <<<
Current Campaign:
17 PC's ranging from 520 to 1263; averaging at 781.
-Mark
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:43:05 -0800
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Here's a different way to do it:
Juggernaut
100 Str 80 7 1 level Growth, Always On
14 Dex 12 7 1 level Density Increase, Always On
63 Con 106 50 0 End Str
20 Bod 18 140 Fully Hardened Resistant Pd & Ed
13 Int 3 70 2x Hardened Resistant 40/40 Pd/Ed
20 Ego 20 10 Lack of Weakness
28 Pre 18 10 Flash Def vs Visual
10 Com - 10 Power Defense
80 Pd 61 10 Flash Def vs Hearing group
80 Ed 76 30 Full Life Support
4 Spd 16 11 20pts Mental Defense, OIF "Skullcap"
31 Rec - 5 +10 Mental Defense, OAF "Outer Helmet"
126 End - 20 10" Knockback Resistance
97 Stn - 27 +20" Knockback Resistance,
--- Only vs being pushed backwards (-1/2)
410 62 1" Tunneling, 20 Def
30 +20d6 Hand Attack, 0 End, Only w/Move Throughs (-1/2),
Body Only (-1/2), Only to insure at least 1" of
Knock-back (-1)
35 7 OCV levels
---
+544 = 954
Here's Cain before his recent trip inside the Ruby. He claims to
be tougher now, but I haven't seen it yet.
===============================================================================
Character write-up by Sam Bell. Permission granted to duplicate and trasmit,
as long as this note is not removed. Send comments to sam@shonen.Eng.Sun.COM
===============================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:58:50 -0500 (EST)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> This is Professor X's half-brother. He found a mystical stone which
>gave him powers. See if your heroes can scratch this guy :p
>
>
>Name : Juggernaut
>Secret ID:
>Value Char Cost Base Max Pts
> 50 Str........x1 10 N/A 40
+10 STR for growth. 60 STR?? That's it??
> 7 Dex........x3 10 N/A -9
Juggsey is not that clumsy. I'd rate him at 12 DEX.
> 49 Con........x2 10 N/A 78
> 47 Body.......x2 10 N/A 74
Yeah, these are right.
> 10 Int........x1 10 N/A 0
> 16 Ego........x2 10 N/A 12
> 23 Pre........x1 10 N/A 13
> 10 Com........x.5 10 N/A 0
> 10 PD.........x1 10 N/A 0
> 10 ED.........x1 10 N/A 0
> 1 SPD........x10 1.7 N/A -7
Come on...Juggs take on supers on a regular basis. He's slow, but faster
than the average Joe. 3 SPD.
> 20 Rec........x2 20 N/A 0
> 98 End........x.5 98 N/A 0
> 99 Stun.......x1 97 N/A 2
> Characteristics Cost: 203
>
>Disadvantages 0+ Pts.
>Income Level Poor 5
Given that Juggs has total life support, his needs are low, and he can
always swipe $$$, this isn't warranted.
>DF: his size 20
>Physical Lim: can't swim 15
>PL: Overconfidence 15
>Reputation (11-) 10
Not to mention Vulnerability: 2x STUN from Ego Attack, which is about the
ONLY way he _ever_ gets taken down - though Nimrod did paralyse him with a
sonic attack (probably a DEX Suppress). Cain was also a 'troubled' soul -
abused by his father at a young age - though I'm not sure how to model this
in Champs terms. Probably Psych.Lim.: Angry at the whole world (Com., Moderate).
> pts. Power/Skill END
>
> 438 Armor (73, 73) 0
> 4 x Hardened (+1)
Why the odd numbers? And Double Hardened would suffice.
> 13 Growth: 400kg, +10 STR, -2"KB, -1DCV, 0
> +1 PER roll against, +2 BODY and STUN,
> height: 3m
> Always on (-1/2)
> 0 END (+1/2)
> Persistent (+1/2)
>
> 32 Mental Defense: -43 to mental attacks 0
> Provided by his helmet IIF(-1/4)
>
> 40 Regeneration: 6 BODY/Turn 0
> Only if he takes no dam during a turn(-1/2)
Huh? Where's the justification for this lim?
> -3 Enhanced Senses: -1 PER roll with all senses 0
>
> Life Support
> 3 immunity to radiation
> 10 need not to breath
> 1 immunity to intense cold
> 3 immunity to disease
I'm pretty sure Juggs rated Total Life Support. He got stuck in space for a
couple years at one point, didn't he?
> 4 Knowledge: Military (13-)
> 25 5 Combat Skills with melee combat
>
> 68 Running +34"
What? Juggs wasn't a fast runner - even if you are trying to account for the
lack of SPD you give him.
IMHO, this is not an accurate representation of Juggernaut's abilities. What
about his 'unstoppability'? Basically, if he started walking in a direction,
NOTHING (practically) could stop him. Probably an amalgam of Clinging, Extra
STR for forcing his way forward, and Tunnelling with a low distance but VERY
high DEF penetration.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"By all that's unholy, the Enigma Force has given Captain Universe the power
to back up his sickening platitudes!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:03:16 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: McAfee
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria wrote:
>
> This is Professor X's half-brother. He found a mystical stone which
> gave him powers. See if your heroes can scratch this guy :p
>
> Name : Juggernaut
> Secret ID:
> Value Char Cost Base Max Pts
> 50 Str........x1 10 N/A 40
Probably on par if you go by Marvel stats, but in a champs write-up
he should be stronger.
> 7 Dex........x3 10 N/A -9
Seems silly. 8 dex I could see since he doesn't seem that clumsy
compared to most normals. And if you're going to give him a 7, you
might as well give him a 5.
> 1 Speed ....
Seems a bit slow to me. I'd give him a three at least.
> Disadvantages 0+ Pts.
> Income Level Poor 5
> DF: his size 20
> Physical Lim: can't swim 15
I disagree with the Income Level, but I gave up on reading X-Men when
Caine was still hanging out with Black Tom.
DF: size. In theory, the Always On limitation with the Growth already
reflects this disad.
Can't swim: 10 points maybe, but I lean toward 5.
On powers and skills:
Knockback resistance should be higher that the -2" that the Growth gave
him.
I feel he's lacking in the skill department, but can't think of some
off the top of my head.
-Mark
X-Sender: jhebert@texas.net
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:06:24 -0600
From: Jeff Hebert <jhebert@texas.net>
Subject: Re: Nested Force Walls
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 11:21 AM 11/20/97 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Jeff Hebert writes:
>> I have a player who wants his character to throw nested force walls -- one
>> transparent to PD, the other to ED. When centered together, they would
>> effectively make one force wall.
>>
>> My question to the list is, can he throw both in one phase, or must he
>> throw them separately?
<<snip>>
>See the Great Linked Debate (tm) rear its ugly head!
...
>Incidentally, _why_ does he want to do this in the first place? So he can
have
>a wall where if the PD goes down the ED doesn't? So he can _choose_ to block
>physical, energy, or both? The first one doesn't make much sense, the second
>one can probably be resolved better with a multipower (1 slot with regular
FW,
>one with PD-transparent, 1 with ED-transparent).
Actually, he already has it in a multipower on two multi slots.
He's a magnetic character, and he wants to be able to tune the force wall
to screen out specific things -- it can either screen out matter, energy,
or both. The problem with 1 regular FW slot is that the defense isn't
variable -- he couldn't "fine tune" it.
If it were a force field, there wouldn't be a problem -- you make one multi
slot that has +x PD, another multi slot with xED, and mix and match the
levels to fine tune the defense to whatever kind of attacker you're facing
(as long as the active point total of both slots combined doesn't exceed
the reserve, of course). So with a 20PD force field in one slot and a 20ED
in the other, you could have 20/0, 15/5, 10/10, etc. He wants to do the
same with a Force Wall to protect others, but the attack roll is the
sticking point. This particular character is a strong code vs killing guy,
so he wants to be able to offer maximum protection to crowds -- "Look, a
rock fall!" and he whips out the maximum PD wall. "Look, it's Flame Guy!"
and he whips out a maximum ED wall. "Look, it's Flame Guy falling with a
rock slide!" and he mixes them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeff Hebert
jhebert@texas.net
Visit the home page of The Crusaders! --
http://lonestar.texas.net/~jhebert/crusaders.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:16:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
I like the write-up, but I didn't see anything on there to reflect that
NOTHING can stop Juggy from moving, no matter what the DEF. I'd suggest
adding either a BODY Drain vs. obstacles, a 1 pip NND HKA vs. obstacles,
or maybe NND Tunneling.
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:18:14 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>I'm not talking about a "default effect". This is written into the
>mechanics: Shrinking is defined from sentence one as "A character with this
>Size Power can decrease in size". That's what the power DOES -- it makes
>you smaller. That's ALL it does. Everything else under the description is
>merely an explanation of the benefits of being that small.
It works well for simulating density decrease, as it works out as well. You
lose the benefits but weigh a lot less, and get the extra KB. My Vision
type character used it, get really light, have someone toss you, and fire up
the Density increase for the big punch. Very nasty move throughs that way.
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:27:51 -0800
From: mcallahan <mcallahan@home.com>
Reply-To: mcallahan@home.com
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> Has anyone allowed this? Most Pets would be Incompetent, surely...
>but I don't have write-ups for a large number of animals. I don't own the
>Bestiary. The one I'm specifically looking for is... a Vietnamese
>pot-bellied pig. A smart one. If anyone can help me out, I'd really
>appreciate it.
I was in a game where the Gm allowed a DNPC:pet dog, the player had also
thought that it should be taken as incompetent. So the GM gave him an
incopetent dog...
GM "You hear a "woof, thunk" from the bedroom
Player "Oh great, Sparkys locked himself in the closet again"
It ended up as a running joke for the whole campaign.
An "about this big" Pot bellied pig writeup
-5 str
10 dex
10 con
5 body
6 int
5 ego
8 pre
10 com
2 pd
2 ed
2 spd
4 rec
20 end
10 stun
-2" Running
10 pts shrinking persistant always on (-2 per rolls, +2dcv, +3KB)
1 pip HKA reduced penetration (bite)
Tracking scent
+3 to smell perception
Phys Lim: No fine Manipulation
Total cost -25 pts
You might want to up the int to 7, that would put it in the
dolphin/great ape range of intelligence
mcallahan@home.com
"Have you seen anything unusual"
"We saw an elephant make love to a pig"
"No, no, I said UNUSUAL
X-Originating-IP: [206.88.2.1]
From: "Todd Hanson" <badtodd@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:38:57 CST
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria says:
> This is Professor X's half-brother. He found a mystical stone which
>gave him powers. See if your heroes can scratch this guy :p
Well.. I'd be willing to be that my players (all based on 275 pts, max
of 12 DCs, none of them built to be combat monsters) would take this guy
out by the bottom of phase 3. Heck, the majority of them would take
this guy out in a 1 on 1 fight.
Speed 1? DCV 1?? Let's see, between move-throughs, hay-makers,
attacks vs special defenses (drains, NND's, etc), this guy would be
toast.
Juggernaut should be MUCH tougher, and on about half of the points.
Todd
Name : Juggernaut
Secret ID:
Value Char Cost Base Max Pts
50 Str........x1 10 N/A 40
7 Dex........x3 10 N/A -9
49 Con........x2 10 N/A 78
47 Body.......x2 10 N/A 74
10 Int........x1 10 N/A 0
16 Ego........x2 10 N/A 12
23 Pre........x1 10 N/A 13
10 Com........x.5 10 N/A 0
10 PD.........x1 10 N/A 0
10 ED.........x1 10 N/A 0
1 SPD........x10 1.7 N/A -7
20 Rec........x2 20 N/A 0
98 End........x.5 98 N/A 0
99 Stun.......x1 97 N/A 2
Characteristics Cost: 203
Disadvantages 0+ Pts.
Income Level Poor 5
DF: his size 20
Physical Lim: can't swim 15
PL: Overconfidence 15
Reputation (11-) 10
pts. Power/Skill END
438 Armor (73, 73) 0
4 x Hardened (+1)
13 Growth: 400kg, +10 STR, -2"KB, -1DCV, 0
+1 PER roll against, +2 BODY and STUN,
height: 3m
Always on (-1/2)
0 END (+1/2)
Persistent (+1/2)
32 Mental Defense: -43 to mental attacks 0
Provided by his helmet IIF(-1/4)
40 Regeneration: 6 BODY/Turn 0
Only if he takes no dam during a turn(-1/2)
-3 Enhanced Senses: -1 PER roll with all senses 0
Life Support
3 immunity to radiation
10 need not to breath
1 immunity to intense cold
3 immunity to disease
4 Knowledge: Military (13-)
25 5 Combat Skills with melee combat
68 Running +34"
Exp: Disadvantages Total: 65 634:Powers / Skills Cost
-772 Experience Spent+ 772 203+Characteristics Cost
Total Points= 837 837=Total Cost
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:41:00 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 11:41 AM 11/20/97 -0800, you wrote:
>David Fair wrote:
>>
>> >Where does everyone's Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level fall? <<<
Fantasy Hero campaign: 50+50 with about 20 xps
Champions campaign I run: 150+100 disads, plus around 40 xps
Champions campaign I play: 35+150 disads, plus about 5 xps
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:45:16 -0800
From: mcallahan <mcallahan@home.com>
Reply-To: mcallahan@home.com
Subject: Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>I long ago got disgusted by how much you couldn't buy with the standard
>250 points (background skills, perks, etc). To design an average
>professional person in america today takes anywhere from 150-175 points.
>To do myself (several hobbies, college degree, Combat Flight [A-10], car,
>base, other skills) took 168 points!
So, you're a 150pt character with some xp, don't forget you're a heroic
level character, so you didn't pay character points for your car or
house,
or any equiptment. With a little brual honesty (gee, my strength is only
an 11 isn't it) most people I know build comforably at the 100 pt
competent
normal level (plus exp).
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:48:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>Where does everyone's Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level fall? <<<
Lesse:
Fantasy Hero (feudal Japan): 125 to 140
Anime/cyberpunk game 1: 250 to 375
Anime/cyberpunk game 2: 250 to 300
Anime/cyberpunk game 3: ~350
Wild Martial Arts: 200 tp 225
4 Color game 1: 260 to 275
4 Color game 2: 250
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
X-Originating-IP: [206.88.2.1]
From: "Todd Hanson" <badtodd@hotmail.com>
Subject: Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:03:22 CST
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
mcallahan says:
>or any equiptment. With a little brual honesty (gee, my strength is
only
>an 11 isn't it) most people I know build comforably at the 100 pt
competent
>normal level (plus exp).
This is the key point. Whenever somebody claims that they have written
themselves up and it took an unrealistic amount of points, I ask to see
the write up. It never fails that they over-estimate their own
abilities. Because they went to the gym a couple times, they have an 13
STR (I've seen people give themselves an 18!), they finished college, so
they must have at least a 15 int, they consider themselves attractive,
so a 16 com is called for, they can drive a car, so of COURSE they have
combat driving...
if you want a realistic write up, ask a friend to decide all of the
stats.. you would be surprised at the difference in opinion.
Todd
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:26:34 -0500
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Here's a toned-down 250-point Juggernaut I've used in the past.
Juggernaut
60 STR 50
11 DEX 3
35 CON 50
15 BOD 10
10 INT
10 EGO
30 PRE 20
10 COM
20 PD 8
15 ED 8
3 SPD 9
19 REC
70 END
63 STN
60 Armor +20 DEF
15 +5 w/ punch, haymaker, move through
8 Ego Def 10
6 Power Def 6
3 Streetwise 15-
10 Public ID
20 Rep: Super Villain
15 DF: Juggernaut
10 Enraged in Combat,11,11
25 Overconfident (vc,tot)
15 Combative (com,str)
15 Hunted: Police 14-
25 Hunted: Supergroup 14-
15 3d Unluck
Dave Mattingly
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5953
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:54:13 -0800
From: mcallahan <mcallahan@home.com>
Reply-To: mcallahan@home.com
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>>1 pip HKA reduced penetration (bite)
>What would this *do*, anyway? 1/2 pip of damage x2, applied against
>Resistant Defenses... it works *exactly* like the same power w/o Reduced
>>Penetration. It's still completely stopped by 1 rPD. I might translate it
to 1d6 No Range EB... still has a (theoretical) chance to do BODY, but
>won't, usually. Maybe even make it Reduced Penetration, to reflect how most
>bites are written up.
It seems to be the opinion of the hero beastiary that all bites are
reduced pen
even 1 pip ones (I agree it's odd, but hey, it saves you a point)
>>You might want to up the int to 7, that would put it in the
>>dolphin/great ape range of intelligence
>>
>What *are* the intelligence ranges for animals, anyway?
Int 2 fish, sharks, snakes
Int 3 rabbits, bats, owls
Int 4 rats, wolverines, mules
Int 5 Horses bears, eagles
Int 6 cats, dogs, dumb monkies
Int 7 dolphins, smart monkies
At least thats what the beastiary has to say
mcallahan@home.com
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:58:29 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> DM> Something I sometimes do when identifying the effects of a power is to
> DM> imagine: "What if there were no visible effects to this at all?"
>
> The flaw in your reasoning is to assume that powers have effects. They do
> not. Effects have powers. You look at the effect to determine the powers
> to use, not the other way around.
Almost got it there, Rat.
Effects need powers to define them.
Powers come with set mechanics.
Therefore, to define an effect, find the mix of mechanics that
will do what you want. Powers _do_ have effects, in game terms. They are
used to make the special effect desired.
> Otherwise you wind up with exactly this
> situation: misuse of a power when another will work better.
Hmmm. Seems to have worked fine to me. Might not be my first
choice, but it used existing game mechanics of game powers to fit a
desired SFX. That's Champions.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:04:18 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Nested Force Walls [Or, the Linked Debate once Again]
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Well, it was available for YDLD (Ye Dread Linked Debate) to be
avoided, but the Champion of the "Yes you cans" had to fire an unexpected
and unwise attack furthering that particular position. That said, take
cover.
> JH> My question to the list is, can he throw both in one phase, or must he
> JH> throw them separately?
>
> Unless he is somehow limited, such as with a Multipower, there is nothing
> preventing him from using as many powers in his action phase as he desires,
> other than the need to spend Endurance.
And, of course, the one attack per phase rule.
> Nothing in the BBB prevents him from "throwing" both Force Walls at once,
> as a single action. There are several examples in the BBB of multiple
> powers being used simultaneously to make a single attack. Whether or not
He doesn't point out that these examples include a certain
(necessary) power modifier.
> you, as the GM, decide that this requires a power modifier is your call as
> a GM. My opinion is that it does not, but there is no solid, "official"
> ruling at this time.
At least an attempt at recognizing the confusing status of this
subject. There actually once was two official rulings, of varying degrees
of obfusacation, taking opposite points of view. Common sense (from the
"No you can't" camp) will say an attack power (read, power requiring an
attack action) is just that, an attack. You'll see logic trying to state
otherwise.
-Tim Gilberg [diving for cover -- how much AOE do
you think YDLD has?]
Subject: Writing Up Yourself
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 97 17:06:27 -0500
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <DFair@sdslink.com>
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>>or any equipment. With a little brutal honesty (gee, my strength is only
>>an 11 isn't it) most people I know build comfortably at the 100 pt
>>competent normal level (plus exp).
>
>This is the key point. Whenever somebody claims that they have written
>themselves up and it took an unrealistic amount of points, I ask to see
>the write up. It never fails that they over-estimate their own
>abilities. Because they went to the gym a couple times, they have an 13
>STR (I've seen people give themselves an 18!), they finished college, so
>they must have at least a 15 int, they consider themselves attractive,
>so a 16 com is called for, they can drive a car, so of COURSE they have
>combat driving...
>
>if you want a realistic write up, ask a friend to decide all of the
>stats.. you would be surprised at the difference in opinion.
I don't have my write up of myself (168 points) with me, but I was
realistic according to the other players in my group (I did us all,
ranging from 153-181 points, as I recall; it was about 2 years ago).
IIRC, i had no stats over 13, and only bought 3-4 skills past the base
level. I did buy a LOT of skills. Lets face it, I've got a masters degree
(electrical engineering), I have been in the military for 15 years (so
you can put me down for combat driving, combat piloting and more
transport familiarities & weapons familiarities than you may believe
should even exist), worked as a network admin for 3 years, ran a 3-star
hotel (Crowne Plaza, assistant manager) for 2, was a talk-radio DJ for 3
(part-time), etc. And that doesn't even cover my hobbies, perks (can you
say contacts?), home and car(s).
100 points wouldn't do a complete write-up of my kids. Ok, that's a gross
exaggeration, but my point is this: 250 points ain't near enough to write
up an adult human who has lived, worked, and studied in civilized society
_AND_ give them superpowers to boot.
PS. My COM was an 8, my INT was a 13. I used our SAT & OCS scores to
determine the latter, my own opinion for the former.
| David A. Fair
Think Different | SDS International
| dfair@sdslink.com
X-Sender: matthew@mail.mactyre.net (Unverified)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:10:54 -0800
From: Matthew Mactyre <mm@mactyre.net>
Subject: Re: Nested Force Walls
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
At 12:58 PM 11/20/97 -0600, Jeff Hebert wrote:
>I have a player who wants his character to throw nested force walls -
one
>transparent to PD, the other to ED. When centered together, they
would
>effectively make one force wall.
>
>My question to the list is, can he throw both in one phase, or must
he
>throw them separately?
I would consider them separate attacks and thus end his phase. Sounds
like he is trying to exceed some point limitation in the game with
some creative rule bending.
Another possibility is to allow him to make a "standard" force wall
that blocks both PD and ED and just call it special effect for them to
appear as separate force walls. There are a couple of other ideas
that come to mind, a modification of a power framework, etc. However,
I wouldn't allow his first idea in any of my games. IMHO
Matthew
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5
iQCVAwUBNHS1bWVMPMbkLaa1AQG6GgP+NQAV2suKV/iod6Aiwk/LdM1LiMktPdn4
PioLS43G0F10BD+ErZENrIQ8PnlRZ4ix/lpdjyeQun4A0Miyqu4rK7Nf1zteJaOo
we8lTv7h8NO3WzNUNDTh3ZiS29bJZ1poKgJDpyRivmyrrBwG3pKZ1vB2Y16NPlOy
skbBGZ0q0FA=
=H7G6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________
Matthew Mactyre
mm@mactyre.net http://www.mactyre.net/
Join us on Dalnet in #gurpschat or #herochat
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:50:57 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 10:47 AM 11/20/97 -0600, Sparx wrote:
>>> >Where does everyone's Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level fall?
>My normal Super Hero Campaign falls at around 300 points.
I'm not sure how I missed the original question (not written by Sparx,
just so everyone understands), but...
In the past, I've run and played in a number of superhero campaigns, all
with 100 base points but with various levels of Disadvantages including
100, 150, 200, and no true limit (most characters in this case ranged
250-325 -- the latter being my guy, who had 8 Hunters, a complication which
the GM didn't exploit as much as he could have).
I've found that, while all have worked, the 100+200 games have worked
best. The characters have the most depth and enough problems that
adventures (and other stories) keep rolling along more or less naturally,
at least with a mature group.
Similarly, of the numerous heroic-level (75 base point) games I've been
involved with, the ideal has been 75+125. I've tried 75+150, but it ends
up too loaded down (just as the "no true limit" superhero game did).
As with most things in gaming, others' experiences may vary.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:00:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: writing up yourself / points for skills
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
My own two bits:
I started thinking about this after the other day's discussion about
rounding out characters...
Depending on how 'detailed' ? / 'intensive' ? / 'anal' ? you want to get, I can
see somebody spending a GREAT deal of points just on their careers/jobs.
For instance, I've been working at one company for over 10 years.
If I wanted to, I could easily spend background points on
contacts / allies / favors / knowledge skills / different or more
specified professional skills (i.e. not just software engineer, but
design group leader, project test leader, tester, etc. etc.) / reputation..
Curt Hicks
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:06:52 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Nested Force Walls
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 12:58 PM 11/20/97 -0600, Jeff Hebert wrote:
>I have a player who wants his character to throw nested force walls -- one
>transparent to PD, the other to ED. When centered together, they would
>effectively make one force wall.
>
>My question to the list is, can he throw both in one phase, or must he
>throw them separately?
>
>The BBB states that to establish a FW at range requires an attack roll to
>target the hex. My argument is that when he throws the first one, that
>attack roll terminates his phase, and he can't throw the second one until
>his next phase. His argument is that in terms of special effects they are
>basically the same wall, and since he isn't targeting a person or doing
>actual damage, we should bend the rules a bit to allow them both to go off
>at once.
>
>What are your thoughts on the matter?
Personally, if face with this situation, I'd be very tempted to kill the
player.
But seriously, folks... [Who? Me?]
Clearly, these are *not* one Force Wall. What this player is trying to
do is use a simple +1/2 Advantage to create a Force Wall whose PD stays up
when its ED is broken, and vice versa. That is definitely not according to
Hoyle; they are two different Force Walls.
Either the Force Wall has PD and is Transparent to Energy attacks, or it
has ED and is Transparent to Physical attacks.
Part of the problem may be that these two Powers are bought completely
separately; I'd have them bought as fixed slots in a Multipower.
Another possible ruling is that the "transparent" element on one Force
Wall cancels out all the defense of the other when the coexist in the same
space. The main trouble with this, though, is that it's dirty pool the
first time it's used ("What? The spitwad went *right through*? How could
that be?"), and easily circumvented later ("I'll just stagger them a few
inches apart" -- or even putting them a full scale inch apart would make
life difficult for any opponents).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:27:10 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Not-so-normal write-ups
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
I'd like to see some normal write ups of you people. Yeah, you.
I wouldn't mind if they were a bit humorous, either...
I double dare you.
...OK! OK! It's my pathetic half-arsed way of wanting to get to know
all of you better. :)
All that is good and pure! His Psychological Limitations!
Jason Sullivan
Reply-To: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
From: "\"Lisa Hartjes\" <beren@unforgettable.com>
\"Hero System Listserv\"" <hero-l@emerald.omg.org&>
"Tad Kelson" <remmie@null.net&> "Rob Wallace" <knight@sympac.com.au&>
"Paul Koch" <pkoch@isd.net&> "Neale Davidson" <nealed@erols.com&>
"Michelle Knight" <mlknight@mindspring.com&>
"Mia Karen Sherman" <seraph@wam.umd.edu&>
"Matt Korth" <korthmat@pilot.msu.edu&> "Kenneth W. Crist Jr." <kayuuc>,
ee@cfar.umd.edu,
"Duane \"Nathan Phillips\" Morris" <duane@turing.sci.yorku.ca&>
"David W Toomey" <dwtoomey@juno.com&> <d005608c@dc.seflin.org&>
"Charles T. Badger" <wbandsis@westco.net&>
"Luke Whitehead" <magician@bc1.com&>
"Wyrdlyng" <wyrdlyng@geocities.com&>
"Michael Telford" <mtelford@vancouver.net&>
"Len Undy" <bryce144@fan.net.au&>
"Cheryl Sheppard" <clas@telusplanet.ne&> t,
"Alex Hunter" <alex_hunter@email.fpl.com&>
"Aaron & Mary in Maryland" <AAMW@EARTHLINK.NET&>
"tina mcgeraldsmith" <tmcsmith14@hotmail.com&>
"Women In Gaming ListServ" <wig@dedaana.otd.com&>
"Women In Gaming Open List" <wig@list.pitt.edu&>
"Rafael Sant'Anna Meyer" <avatar@br.homeshopping.com.br&>
"Gary Ciaramella" <BlkDoogan@aol.com&> "Erik Yocum" <ecy@umich.edu&>
"David Holst" <dh>,
"@cray.co" <AlexBobb@aol.com&>
\"Alex Rojas\" <rojasa@uthscsa.edu&> \"John S. Turner\" <avery1@flash.net&>
\"Stormme Kinkade\" <stormme@earthling.net&>
\"John \\"BioStorm\\
Subject: Bouncing email
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:43:35 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
If anyone was wondering why email being sent to me in the past 48 hours has
been bouncing, my former ISP decided to close down my account without
informing it was going to happen, or why.
So, if you sent me mail in the past 48 hours, please resend it. It might
not have made it to me.
For the listserv managers, please make sure that the email address for me
has been changed to beren@unforgettable.com otherwise it will never make it
to me ever again.
Lisa Hartjes
beren@unforgettable.com
Home: http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/daniken/79
"What do you mean, don't press the red button......."
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:43:59 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 07:02 PM 11/20/97 -0500, Eric Burns wrote:
>> Int 2 fish, sharks, snakes
>> Int 3 rabbits, bats, owls
>> Int 4 rats, wolverines, mules
>> Int 5 Horses bears, eagles
>> Int 6 cats, dogs, dumb monkies
>> Int 7 dolphins, smart monkies
>> At least thats what the beastiary has to say
>>
>> mcallahan@home.com
>>
>
>Int 4 the average television writer
>Int 3 people who call psychic hotlines
Int 2 Fox TV Network daytime programming executives
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:48:52 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Reduced END Movement & NCM
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 06:57 PM 11/20/97 -0500, Eric Burns wrote:
>I have a question about the point cost of movement powers. Let's
>say Generic Flying Hero buys 10" of flight with a 16x modifier on
>NCM to make his total non-combat movement 32x as fast as his combat
>movement. So, basically:
>
>Flight - 10" (20pts), x16 NCM (x32) (+20pts = 40pts)
>
>So far so good. Now here's the rub: GFH wants to buy the advantage
>1/2 END (+1/4) for his flight power. Does this advantage apply
>just to the 10", or does GFH have to purchase it on the whole
>power. In other words, does GFH's flight power look like this:
>
>Flight - 10" (20pts), 1/2 END [+1/4] (+5 = 25pts);
> x16 NCM (x32) (+20pts = 45pts)
>
>or like this:
>
>Flight - 10" (20pts), x16 NCM (x32) (+20pts = 40pts),
> 1/2 END [+1/4] (+10pts = 50pts)
>
>I tend to think the second is correct, but an example in the BBB
>(mosquito) seems to do it the first way. What do you think, folks?
I've always done it the second way, and HeroMaker agrees with me (I
checked it out using your example), so I'd just say assume Mosquito's
variance is an error.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Reduced END Movement & NCM
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:57:21 -0500 (EST)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
I have a question about the point cost of movement powers. Let's
say Generic Flying Hero buys 10" of flight with a 16x modifier on
NCM to make his total non-combat movement 32x as fast as his combat
movement. So, basically:
Flight - 10" (20pts), x16 NCM (x32) (+20pts = 40pts)
So far so good. Now here's the rub: GFH wants to buy the advantage
1/2 END (+1/4) for his flight power. Does this advantage apply
just to the 10", or does GFH have to purchase it on the whole
power. In other words, does GFH's flight power look like this:
Flight - 10" (20pts), 1/2 END [+1/4] (+5 = 25pts);
x16 NCM (x32) (+20pts = 45pts)
or like this:
Flight - 10" (20pts), x16 NCM (x32) (+20pts = 40pts),
1/2 END [+1/4] (+10pts = 50pts)
I tend to think the second is correct, but an example in the BBB
(mosquito) seems to do it the first way. What do you think, folks?
-Eric
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 19:02:34 -0500 (EST)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> Int 2 fish, sharks, snakes
> Int 3 rabbits, bats, owls
> Int 4 rats, wolverines, mules
> Int 5 Horses bears, eagles
> Int 6 cats, dogs, dumb monkies
> Int 7 dolphins, smart monkies
> At least thats what the beastiary has to say
>
> mcallahan@home.com
>
Int 4 the average television writer
Int 3 people who call psychic hotlines
-Eric
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: DCH to Hero conversion help needed
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 19:04:33 -0500 (EST)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> The way Batman is written in the comics, he is one of the few "Normals" I
> would let have a SPD 7.
>
> Mike
>
So Batman can run 30 MPH? I guess I missed that issue...
-e
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 20:36:22 -0500
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: Possession type question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> I'm not talking about a "default effect". This is written into the
> mechanics: Shrinking is defined from sentence one as "A character with this
> Size Power can decrease in size". That's what the power DOES -- it makes
> you smaller. That's ALL it does. Everything else under the description is
> merely an explanation of the benefits of being that small.
I knew this was going to come up again. :-)
I personally take the entire set of Shrinking effects (size change, DCV,
increased knockback, etc.) as the effect of the power; thus, Shrinking "no
size change" is a great way to do Density Decrease (if you have some bizarre
need to pay points for it, that is :-). It's a philosophical difference in the
way you and I look at the power descriptions -- so of course we have to argue
about it over several days now. :-)
Geoff Speare
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 12:08:03 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 11:31 AM 11/20/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria writes:
>>
>> This is Professor X's half-brother. He found a mystical stone which
>> gave him powers. See if your heroes can scratch this guy :p
>Probably...the stun lottery is your friend. Not a very accurate conversion
>anyway.
actually, this was a good conversion for the original juggernaught- y'know, the guy
that cyclops managed to kick off him when he fell on him?
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 12:12:07 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 11:43 AM 11/20/97 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Here's a different way to do it:
>
>Juggernaut
>100 Str 80 7 1 level Growth, Always On
i'd object to this. no way he can lift this much, that's why the hulk beat
him recently (my best guess is that 'celestrial hulk' had 100str.)
Give him 100 str- if you want to alter stats, i say make dc heros less
powerful, not marvel guys more powerful. . .
>Here's Cain before his recent trip inside the Ruby. He claims to
>be tougher now, but I haven't seen it yet.
>
>===============================================================================
>Character write-up by Sam Bell. Permission granted to duplicate and trasmit,
>as long as this note is not removed. Send comments to sam@shonen.Eng.Sun.COM
>===============================================================================
>
>
>
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 12:17:25 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:58 PM 11/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>> This is Professor X's half-brother. He found a mystical stone which
>>gave him powers. See if your heroes can scratch this guy :p
>>
>>
>>Name : Juggernaut
>>Secret ID:
>>Value Char Cost Base Max Pts
>> 50 Str........x1 10 N/A 40
>
>+10 STR for growth. 60 STR?? That's it??
>
yes, that's it. class 100 strenth, unerthly in old
marvel talk. .
>>Income Level Poor 5
>
>Given that Juggs has total life support, his needs are low, and he can
>always swipe $$$, this isn't warranted.
>
. . . however he's currently spending all he can curing black tom. ..
>> 40 Regeneration: 6 BODY/Turn 0
>> Only if he takes no dam during a turn(-1/2)
>
>Huh? Where's the justification for this lim?
>
check out x-force (guest starring spidey and juggie)
whichever twonk was writing it decided shatterstar
could stab juggy in the eyes *lol* but he regenerated. .
what this lim means is that *if* the pc's manage to
cancel his defences (like thor did once) they can actually
take him down. . . ..
>
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 12:20:41 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 12:03 PM 11/20/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria wrote:
>>
>> This is Professor X's half-brother. He found a mystical stone which
>> gave him powers. See if your heroes can scratch this guy :p
>>
>> Name : Juggernaut
>> Secret ID:
>> Value Char Cost Base Max Pts
>> 50 Str........x1 10 N/A 40
>
>Probably on par if you go by Marvel stats, but in a champs write-up
>he should be stronger.
>
no, he should not. what are you people on? his main power is
being indestructable. . . . if you give him ultra-ultra strenth as well,
lots of the sneaky ways to undo him won't work. . like when spidey sunk him in
concrete.
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 19:06:29 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
CC: hero-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
David Fair wrote:
> >Where does everyone's Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level fall? <<<
>
> I long ago got disgusted by how much you couldn't buy with the standard
> 250 points (background skills, perks, etc).
> These days our characters are built as people first, with all the
> experiences & background stuff you want to fit your conception. It's all
> free. You can then spend up to 250 points on combat/adventuring stuff. If
> your background is used heavily in your adventuring, then you have to pay
> for half of it.
Taken from my webpage I use:
(The full details are at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/camprule.html
)
Character Formation (How to stuff your Bear, How much cotton to use, what
kinds of buttons can be used for the eyes...)
Power Level should be set to be about as powerful as the
characters depicted in the Basic
Rule-set. If you do not have this rule-set but have
the
Herosystem Rule-set instead, consult me on this.
Point Totals
Exact point totals are not important. What is
important is the power level and concept. Use
however
many or few points it takes to get a fully
fleshed out
character who is about as powerful (give or take
a bit)
as the characters we see in the basic book,
without
being so bland of detail as they are.
Final point total should be between 250 to
300
points. Or perhaps more if needed, or less if
not
needed.
Base points should be around 120. Or rather
the difference between the Final Total and
the Total of the Disads.
Disads Total should be the difference
between Base Points and the Final Total.
Character abilities should be much more diverse than that shown
in the basic rule-set however.
Define your Powers Concept to it's full extant, but keep the
power level down to that mentioned
above. Have all powers fitting the character, yet none which are
there just to fill in gaps or
spend points.
If a power makes sense, is well fleshed out, and is used in a way
that doesn't violate the chosen
power level; it will be allowed.
Variable Power Pools will require at least a page of
explanation into how they work
and what limits them.
Character should have a full compliment of Appropriate Background
skills. Ask yourself what this
person is without their powers, then fill that out completely.
Background Story. I expect a good page or two of detail on the
character's history, personality,
and abilities. An actual story helps as well; showing the
character having to deal with some major
turning point in life, a major moral crisis, or something along
those lines. An illustration, even if
it's a scanned an modified version of some other work, goes a
long way here.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:15:39 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> I knew this was going to come up again. :-)
What!? The list has *seen* this discussion before?!?
> I personally take the entire set of Shrinking effects (size change, DCV,
> increased knockback, etc.) as the effect of the power; thus, Shrinking "no
And on the same token, the entire set of effects of each and every
power is the effect of the power. As limitations allow a power to lose an
effect (it does less, therefor it is less usefull), a power could
conceivably be pared down to merely one of its effects.
Thus, Gliding only allows one to stay off of the ground, though
forward motion is of course severely hampered by lack of descent.
Thus, someone could be desolid yet still be unable to pass through
any substances, merely having attacks seem to pass right through. (Of
course, said character would still be unable to affect the physical world
while in this state.)
Etc. Etc.
This *is* the Hero system. Take one effect, find the powers that
will simulate said effect, shake before using.
-Tim Gilberg
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:57:45 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 13
At 12:18 PM 11/20/97 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote:
> It works well for simulating density decrease, as it works out as well.
> You lose the benefits but weigh a lot less, and get the extra KB. My
> Vision type character used it, get really light, have someone toss you,
> and fire up the Density increase for the big punch. Very nasty move
> throughs that way.
IMO, "density decrease" short of insubstantiality (about the only way the
Vision ever uses this trick) is not a useful ability. After all, look
what's left of the Shrinking Power after removing the size change element:
all that remains is the disadvantageous portion (the extra KB). Sounds more
like a Physical Limitation than a Power to me.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:57:47 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 16
At 03:58 PM 11/20/97 -0600, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
> Almost got it there, Rat.
Actually, I'd say he was exactly right.
> Effects need powers to define them.
> Powers come with set mechanics.
>
> Therefore, to define an effect, find the mix of mechanics that
>will do what you want. Powers _do_ have effects, in game terms. They are
>used to make the special effect desired.
This approach is something like setting up a chessboard with 2 more rooks
instead of bishops. Sure, it could be useful -- but utility != validity.
Powers come with set mechanics, but you do NOT match the mechanics to the
effects. You match the POWERS with the effects, and let the mechanics take
care of themselves.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:57:49 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 14
At 09:15 PM 11/20/97 -0600, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>> I knew this was going to come up again. :-)
>
> What!? The list has *seen* this discussion before?!?
I think he was referring to the "first sentence principle" which was
threaded somewhere into my posts.
> And on the same token, the entire set of effects of each and every
>power is the effect of the power. As limitations allow a power to lose an
>effect (it does less, therefor it is less usefull), a power could
>conceivably be pared down to merely one of its effects.
... at which point one will realize there is a better way of executing that
effect.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:57:51 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: On the ground gliding
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 15
At 06:00 AM 11/21/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> If you have Gliding, only on the ground, so you hovered mere
>inches off the floor, could you use your forward motion from, let's
>say, running, to get you moving?
Yes -- and then you stop when you switch to Gliding, because you can't fall
1" and therefore can't maintain forward velocity. :/ That's the way it
works -- you can't Glide at 0" off the ground.
> How would you simulate the effects of a character with Air Walking
>(the ability to walk in air as if it were sold)?
6" Flight, No Turn Mode (+1/2).
> What sort of powers/limitations would you use to simulate
>Levitation?
If you mean AD&D style levitation, "Flight, Only along vertical plane (-1)".
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 23:25:17 -0600 (CST)
X-Sender: mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 3
I can see both sides of the coin, I wrote up my self using a true Hero
sourcebook aproach, I was very expensive, over 200 points, most of those on
my military training, Army Ranger school, Airborne, Air Assault, Sniper
school, a ton of other military schools plus I was also a EMT. I have my
doubts about some of those CHAR requiriments, I don't think I have a 18+
STR, a reguirement for Ranger school.
On the other hand I did it in a more realistic fashion, I cost under 100 and
still had most of the things I feel I should have.
The level of the game you will be playing in should dictate the approach you
use.
Rising Force Publications
Herozine The Superhero RPG Fanzine...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
From: "D. Michael Basinger" <dbasinge@arches.uga.edu>
Subject: Character: Revanaut
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 02:46:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Priority: NORMAL
X-Authentication: IMSP
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 4
Here is a character I created last night when I could not sleep.
Name: Revanaut
Secret ID: John Digger
Note:
John was a truck driver and factory worker for a living. One month he
could not pay the "protection" money the local mafia wanted. They took
John and his family out and killed them. A Voice (tm) offer John a
cahnce to go back and seek justice againist the ones who killed home.
He came back stronger and very resistance to damage, but still dead. He
trained himself in detective work and martial arts, and became
Revanaut: The Decomposing Detective.
+-----------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
|VALUE CHARACTERISTIC COST BASE PTS|NAME: John Digger |
| 30 Strength x1 10 0|HERO ID: Revanaut |
| 18 Dexterity x3 10 24|PLAYER: |
| 18 Constitution x2 10 16|----------------------------------------+
| 14 Body x2 10 8| PTS POWERS END|
| 15 Intelligence x1 10 5| 10 EC (10),"Dead" |
| 15 Ego x2 10 10|10a) +20 STR 2|
| 15 Presence x1 10 5|10b) +20 PD |
| 8 Comeliness x1/2 10 -1|10c) +20 ED |
| 26 Physical Defens x1 6 0|20d) Life Support,doesn't breathe, |
| 24 Energy Defense x1 4 0| doesn't eat/sleep/excrete,safe |
| 5 Speed x10 2.8 22| in vacuum/pressure,safe in |
| 10 Recovery x2 10 0| radiation,safe in heat/cold, |
| 36 Endurance x1/2 36 0| immune to disease,immune to |
| 40 Stun x1 38 2| aging |
| Characteristics Cost: 91| 8e) 20/20 Damage Resistance,Does not |
+-----------------------------------+ prevent penetration(-1/4) |
|DISADVANTAGES BASE: 100+PTS|15f) 4D6 Ego Attack,"Call from the |
|Secret ID,"John Digger" 15| grave",Must have killed someone |
|Enraged,"When someone is 10| before(-1) 4|
| killed",uncommon,occur 14-, |10g) 2 BODY Regen |
| recover 11- | 4 2 Levels: Ego Attack |
|Psych Lim,"Code vs Killing", 25| 3 Forensic Medicine 12- |
| very common,total | 3 Security Systems 12- |
|Rep,"The Decomposing 10| 3 Streetwise 12- |
| Detective",occur 11- | 3 Disguise 11- |
|Distinctive,"Dead",easily 10| 3 Simulate Death |
| concealable,major | 5 Criminology 13- |
|Hunted,"Game city mafia",more 20| 5 Deduction 13- |
| powerful,non-combat influence, | 5 Interrogation 13- |
| harsh,appear 8- | 3 Lockpicking 13- |
|Psych Lim,"Hatred of Firearms", 15| 3 Paramedic 12- |
| common,strong | 4 M Strike,"Punch" |
|Vuln,"Fire",very common,x1 1/2 15| 5 Off Strike,"Roundhouse" |
| stun | 4 Nerve Strike,"Low Blow" |
|Vuln,"Fire",very common,x1 1/2 15| 4 Martial Disarm |
| body | 4 Martial Escape |
|Unluck,1D6 5| 2 TF,Small (Cars),Large |
|Psych Lim,"Uncomfortable in 10| (Semi-Trucks) |
| social settings",common, | 3 PS: Detective 12-,(INT based) |
| moderate | |
| | |
| |
| Disadvantages Total : 150| 159 : Powers Total |
| Experience Spent + 0| 91 + Characteristic Total |
| Total Points = 250| 250 = Total Cost |
+-----------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
--
D. Michael Basinger
dbasinge@arches.uga.edu
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 23:57:44 -0800
From: mcallahan <mcallahan@home.com>
Reply-To: mcallahan@home.com
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 5
>I can see both sides of the coin, I wrote up my self using a true Hero
>sourcebook aproach, I was very expensive, over 200 points, most of those on
>my military training, Army Ranger school, Airborne, Air Assault, Sniper
>school, a ton of other military schools plus I was also a EMT. I have my
>doubts about some of those CHAR requiriments, I don't think I have a 18+
>STR, a reguirement for Ranger school.
What source book has the ranger shcool with an 18 STR requirment?
As an odd sidenote the strongest man on earth Kirk Karwoski could/can
lift
455Kg, giving him a strength of 21 (ish) (at least I think he's the
strongest,
thoes guys who run the weighlifting/powerlifting webpages have a
language all
their own).
Personaly I write up EMT training as the basic 3 pts of paramedic (I'm
EMT-IA
certified, so I know of which I speak), consider that they always show
up in
pair so they can compliment each others skill rolls, and the equiptmnt
in the
rig is good for a plus or two, so they are more effective than their
skill
alone would indicate. (Also EMT's never actually get sent to real
emergencies,
Paramedics do.)
mcallahan@home.com
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 01:57:52 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 6
On Wednesday, November 19, 1997 7:34 PM, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
<snip>
>Yeah, but I haven't had anyone want to play Rin-Tin-Tin, or Rex, The
Wonder
>Dog, yet...
>
How about Power Pooch?:)
Filksinger
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 06:00:35 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: On the ground gliding
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 7
If you have Gliding, only on the ground, so you hovered mere
inches off the floor, could you use your forward motion from, let's
say, running, to get you moving?
How would you simulate the effects of a character with Air Walking
(the ability to walk in air as if it were sold)?
What sort of powers/limitations would you use to simulate
Levitation?
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 05:39:07 -0600 (CST)
X-Sender: mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 10
At 11:57 PM 11/20/97 -0800, mcallahan wrote:
>>I can see both sides of the coin, I wrote up my self using a true Hero
>>sourcebook aproach, I was very expensive, over 200 points, most of those on
>>my military training, Army Ranger school, Airborne, Air Assault, Sniper
>>school, a ton of other military schools plus I was also a EMT. I have my
>>doubts about some of those CHAR requiriments, I don't think I have a 18+
>>STR, a reguirement for Ranger school.
>
>What source book has the ranger shcool with an 18 STR requirment?
I think it was "Here there be Tigers" or it could have been one of the Dark
Champions books. It's been awhile.
>As an odd sidenote the strongest man on earth Kirk Karwoski could/can
>lift >455Kg, giving him a strength of 21 (ish) (at least I think he's the
>strongest,thoes guys who run the weighlifting/powerlifting webpages have a
>language all their own).
>Personaly I write up EMT training as the basic 3 pts of paramedic (I'm
>EMT-IA certified, so I know of which I speak), consider that they always show
>up in pair so they can compliment each others skill rolls, and the equiptmnt
>in the rig is good for a plus or two, so they are more effective than their
>skill alone would indicate. (Also EMT's never actually get sent to real
>emergencies, Paramedics do.)
I agree, I was an EMT for 2 years, I got 4 days of training in the Army
called combat life savers, I felt like I learned alot more there.
Rising Force Publications
Herozine The Superhero RPG Fanzine...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 03:39:48 -0800
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Campaign Power Levels
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>Where does everyone's Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level fall? <<<
In my current campaign (4-colour Superhero), PCs are 100+175 with the
stipulation that 25 points or more are spent on character development
stuff like hobbies, random talents and other stuff like that.
My last game (which was my current game-world 200 years ago) was
100+50; the first emergence/re-emergence of superheroes in the world. I
wanted them to be basically normals with a power or two; powerful but
still definitely vulnerable.
And every game I have ever played a character in has been 100+150.
It is a very comfortable power level. It's usually hard to get
everything you want into only 250 points, but it makes a player think
about what the character *really* needs, and gives immediately a
direction to go with accrued experience.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
X-Sender: ghost@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 05:52:29 -0600
From: Bryce Berggren <ghost@softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 03:36 PM 11/21/97 -0500, Geoffrey Speare wrote:
>> Are you people beginning to see just how silly this is? Please, work from
>> the effects back to the power(s) that simulate the effects rather than
>> trying to wedge a power into fitting an effect.
>
>I want some of the effects listed in the Shrinking table; thus, I buy
>Shrinking and limit out the ones I don't want. Simple!
>
>Geoff Speare
I dunno, Geoff. Normally you seem on the ball, but ... ignoring the first
sentence principle for a moment here, there are six mechanical elements
to the Shrinking (weight lessen, height lessen, DCV bonus, PER penalty,
KB increase, growth velocity). To use it for "density decrease," you have
to limit out 4 of them. Any time 2/3 of the power isn't right for what
you want to do, somehow I'm thinking the power /period/ isn't right for
what you want to do.
It's like Long's suggestion somewhere of KB with the limitation that
it only prevents the damage, not the actual knocking back. Sure, this
technically is playable from a purely theoretical standpoint, but it
makes more sense to buy extra PD against Knockback, since it's specifically
/meant/ to prevent damage.
H. G.
He beats his fists against the posts
and still insists he sees the ghosts
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 05:49:58 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 12
At 07:07 PM 11/20/97 +0500, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>> Int 2 Fox TV Network daytime programming executives
>>
>Especially whoever decided to axe The Tick.
That would be the Fox Kids' Network. I'm referencing the
all-to-short-lived Fox After Breakfast, which execs retooled into
unrecognizability, and then replaced with a second incarnation of the Vicki
Lawrence Show (which lasted about 8 weeks).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Originating-IP: [206.88.2.1]
From: "Todd Hanson" <badtodd@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Writing up yourself
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:18:38 CST
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 17
David Fair says:
>I don't have my write up of myself (168 points) with me, but I was
>realistic according to the other players in my group (I did us all,
>ranging from 153-181 points, as I recall; it was about 2 years ago).
>IIRC, i had no stats over 13, and only bought 3-4 skills past the base
If you can dig this up, I would be interested in seeing it.
>level. I did buy a LOT of skills. Lets face it, I've got a masters
degree
>(electrical engineering), I have been in the military for 15 years (so
>you can put me down for combat driving, combat piloting and more
What do you consider 'combat driving' and 'combat piloting'? Unless
you've had extensive training/experience driving and flying while in a
combat situation, these would be covered already by your transport
familiarities.
>transport familiarities & weapons familiarities than you may believe
Okay, Transport familarities: Ground vehicles for 2 pts and probably 1
pt for planes (or 2 pts if you also learned helicopters), another 2 pts
for small arms, maybe a pt or 2 in uncommon if you've learned grenade
launchers etc. This is still only 5-8 pts to cover just about anything
earth based (or did you train at area 51?)
>should even exist), worked as a network admin for 3 years, ran a 3-star
>hotel (Crowne Plaza, assistant manager) for 2, was a talk-radio DJ for
3
>(part-time), etc. And that doesn't even cover my hobbies, perks (can
you
>say contacts?), home and car(s).
I'm assuming you have quite a few points tied up in home and car..
unless you consider yourself a superhero, you don't pay points for
those.
As for the skills, you'd be surprised at how few skills most jobs
actually require.. and most of those will be at the familiarity level.
Most hobbies wouldnt even be something that you would pay points for
(KS:Stamp collecting? KS:Hero Rules?). As for contacts, I would bet
that most of them are merely aquaintances.
I still maintain my position that anybody who spends a large amount of
points building 'themselves' is over-estimating their own abilities.
(and/or charging themselves points for things they shouldnt be)
Todd
-------------------------------------------------------
Please note that I only SEND from this address - I do
not receive email at this address. Please reply to me
at badtodd@dacmail.net :) thanks!
-------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:44:31 -0500
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 19
Vox wrote:
>IMO, "density decrease" short of insubstantiality (about the only way
>the Vision ever uses this trick) is not a useful ability. ... Sounds
>more like a Physical Limitation than a Power to me.
What about when you need to cross a rope bridge, or when you need to be
thrown a great distance, or when you use it against others so that you
can knock them back further, or when you reduce your mass for
teleporting purposes, etc.
Here's a few examples from
http://www.geocities.com/area51/cavern/1905/haym15f.html:
Example: The Apparition, besides becoming desolid, can become semi-solid
with 3 levels of no-size-change Shrinking and 12 linked levels of
Knockback Resistance. When semi-solid, he has +6 DCV, he has a -6 to PER
rolls against him, he weighs only 1/2 a pound, and he takes (a net of)
3" less Knockback (since it's hard to push mist around - except for
wind-based attacks -- just like it's hard to throw a balloon as far as a
basketball).
Example: Paperboy can become light as a feather. He buys 5 levels of
no-size-change Shrinking, to weigh 1/10 of an ounce. He'll travel an
extra 15" when knocked back. It's a good thing he has paper-airplane
gliding!
And if only the weight reduction (and not the DCV or PER modifiers) is
desired, Shrinking with a mass-only limitation -1/2 can be bought.
Example: The Walker of Worlds can decrease his mass. With 2 levels of
Shrinking, mass only, he doesn't get +4 DCV or -4 to PER rolls against
him, but he does get 1/64x Mass, and +6" Knockback. He also looks funny
getting around using that half-walk half-leap that the astronauts used
on the moon.
Example: Little John ("Don't let the name fool you - in real life I'm
actually very big.") has 15 points of Growth, always on, giving him a
3/4 ton mass. Dr. Lightfoot runs across a rope bridge to escape, knowing
that the bridge can't hold Little John's weight. What the villain
doesn't realize is that Little John can reduce his mass with some
effort. Using his 1 level of mass-only Shrinking, Little John's weight
is that of a normal man.
Dave Mattingly
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:48:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Reply-To: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 18
On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, David Fair wrote:
> 100 points wouldn't do a complete write-up of my kids. Ok, that's a gross
> exaggeration, but my point is this: 250 points ain't near enough to write
> up an adult human who has lived, worked, and studied in civilized society
> _AND_ give them superpowers to boot.
As much as I love the Hero System, I think this is an inherent flaw which
is not easily remedied by giving characters more points. That was my point
in my original list of my skills, which (I think) started this thread.
If it takes 250 points, or even 50 - 100 points, just to describe a normal
adult, then a lot of the basis of comparison of power levels has already
gone out the window. A 60 point power isn't as significant an addition to
a character already built on dozens - or hundreds - of points. And
something has gone wrong with the scale if my Full Life Support, Flight,
and FTL are comparable in cost to your in depth knowledge of 30 different
role-playing games.
Moreover, the breakdown of levels of skill in Hero doesn't work well in
dealing with typical levels of skill. I used to write BASIC programs back
in high school, and I've taken a course in PASCAL, but I don't know if I'd
go so far as to give myself an 8- in computer programming. And if I do
have an 8-, what did I have when this stuff was fresh in my mind: an 11-?
11- was defined in Champions II as enough to hold a job in the skill!
Hero glosses over an awful lot in dealing with skills. For equal costs, I
could buy KS: Beavis & Butthead Trivia 14- or PS: Concert Pianist 14-.
There's no attempt made to address the difficulty in developing one skill
vs. another, and little attempt to differentiate usefulness.
That's why I still prefer an informal approach to general skills. I assume
a given superhero is a well-rounded, functional adult with a normal range
of interests, unless the character concept says otherwise. Trying to buy
every last skill just doesn't work well in Hero terms.
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:09:57 -0500
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 21
> As much as I love the Hero System, I think this is an inherent flaw which
> is not easily remedied by giving characters more points. That was my point
> in my original list of my skills, which (I think) started this thread.
I don't think it's an inherent flaw of Hero so much as a question of how much
detail is appropriate for simulating reality.
> That's why I still prefer an informal approach to general skills. I assume
> a given superhero is a well-rounded, functional adult with a normal range
> of interests, unless the character concept says otherwise. Trying to buy
> every last skill just doesn't work well in Hero terms.
A perfect solution, since most of the time, buying every last skill doesn't
really enhance game play any.
Geoff Speare
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:11:33 -0500 (EST)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Character: Revanaut
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 20
>Name: Revanaut
>John was a truck driver and factory worker for a living. One month he
>could not pay the "protection" money the local mafia wanted. They took
>John and his family out and killed them. A Voice (tm) offer John a
>cahnce to go back and seek justice againist the ones who killed home.
>He came back stronger and very resistance to damage, but still dead. He
>trained himself in detective work and martial arts, and became
>Revanaut: The Decomposing Detective.
>
>+-----------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
>|VALUE CHARACTERISTIC COST BASE PTS|NAME: John Digger |
>| 30 Strength x1 10 0|HERO ID: Revanaut |
>| 18 Dexterity x3 10 24|PLAYER: |
>| 18 Constitution x2 10 16|----------------------------------------+
>| 14 Body x2 10 8| PTS POWERS END|
>| 15 Intelligence x1 10 5| 10 EC (10),"Dead" |
>| 15 Ego x2 10 10|10a) +20 STR 2|
>| 15 Presence x1 10 5|10b) +20 PD |
>| 8 Comeliness x1/2 10 -1|10c) +20 ED |
Somehow, these don't strike me as 'dead' abilities. Or even Undead
abilities. Definitely a 'not in my campaign' Elemental Control - and I'm
generally pretty lenient with ECs. But raw characteristics in an EC - that
especially sets off bells in my head.
>| 26 Physical Defens x1 6 0|20d) Life Support,doesn't breathe, |
>| 24 Energy Defense x1 4 0| doesn't eat/sleep/excrete,safe |
>| 5 Speed x10 2.8 22| in vacuum/pressure,safe in |
Awfully fast for a dead guy. :-)
>| 10 Recovery x2 10 0| radiation,safe in heat/cold, |
>| 36 Endurance x1/2 36 0| immune to disease,immune to |
>| 40 Stun x1 38 2| aging |
>| Characteristics Cost: 91| 8e) 20/20 Damage Resistance,Does not |
>+-----------------------------------+ prevent penetration(-1/4) |
>|DISADVANTAGES BASE: 100+PTS|15f) 4D6 Ego Attack,"Call from the |
>|Secret ID,"John Digger" 15| grave",Must have killed someone |
>|Enraged,"When someone is 10| before(-1) 4|
>| killed",uncommon,occur 14-, |10g) 2 BODY Regen |
Most of these really don't belong in a 'Dead' EC either. Though I like the
SFX of the EGO Attack - but I'd make it Mental Illusions instead (a big one,
that goes for at least STUN damage).
>| recover 11- | 4 2 Levels: Ego Attack |
>|Psych Lim,"Code vs Killing", 25| 3 Forensic Medicine 12- |
>| very common,total | 3 Security Systems 12- |
Code vs. Killing for a corpse. I find that amusing :-). At least for this
guy, being dead ain't so bad...why should he object? :-)
>|Rep,"The Decomposing 10| 3 Streetwise 12- |
>| Detective",occur 11- | 3 Disguise 11- |
>|Distinctive,"Dead",easily 10| 3 Simulate Death |
Heh. "Simulate" Death. He shouldn't even need to buy it. Just go limp and
fool everyone!
>| concealable,major | 5 Criminology 13- |
>|Hunted,"Game city mafia",more 20| 5 Deduction 13- |
>| powerful,non-combat influence, | 5 Interrogation 13- |
>| harsh,appear 8- | 3 Lockpicking 13- |
>|Psych Lim,"Hatred of Firearms", 15| 3 Paramedic 12- |
>| common,strong | 4 M Strike,"Punch" |
>|Vuln,"Fire",very common,x1 1/2 15| 5 Off Strike,"Roundhouse" |
>| stun | 4 Nerve Strike,"Low Blow" |
>|Vuln,"Fire",very common,x1 1/2 15| 4 Martial Disarm |
>| body | 4 Martial Escape |
>|Unluck,1D6 5| 2 TF,Small (Cars),Large |
>|Psych Lim,"Uncomfortable in 10| (Semi-Trucks) |
>| social settings",common, | 3 PS: Detective 12-,(INT based) |
>| moderate | |
I dunno. You've got some interesting ideas, but I think your Elemental
Control is questionable (at best) and some of your Psych.Lims., while
certainly four-color, are inappropriate for the walking dead. Besides, why
bother with the Martial Arts and Detective skills? He's dead! Give him
spiffy 'talk to the dead' Retrocognition (or Psychometry), Mind Scanning
('Soul Location'), some 'surprise' powers (Tunnelling), 0 END of all his
powers (the dead don't get tired), a Code of Vengeful Justice (or something)
and you've got something appropriately spooky. Oh yeah, you need more PRE.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"By all that's unholy, the Enigma Force has given Captain Universe the power
to back up his sickening platitudes!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:28:14 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 24
> ...is not a useful ability. After all, look
> what's left of the Shrinking Power after removing the size change element:
>all that remains is the disadvantageous portion (the extra KB). Sounds more
>like a Physical Limitation than a Power to me.
Aye, tis' a limitation in a way... but also think of the ability to
walks across rice paper, or pressure plates.
And it tis' a very 'Comic Book' effect.
X-Sender: scm@mail.aci.net
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:23:16 -0800
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <shelley@mactyre.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 26
At 10:09 AM 11/21/97 -0500, Geoffrey Speare wrote:
>> That's why I still prefer an informal approach to general skills. I assume
>> a given superhero is a well-rounded, functional adult with a normal range
>> of interests, unless the character concept says otherwise. Trying to buy
>> every last skill just doesn't work well in Hero terms.
>
>A perfect solution, since most of the time, buying every last skill doesn't
>really enhance game play any.
Oh, I don't know. I've had KS: Comic books become very useful in a game
where the PCs were transported to the Marvel or DC universe. I've had PS:
pianist useful for one of my characters when supervillains attacked the
symphony and the pianist was injured (and it was a public relations coup to
boot). I like to conceive adventures where people use esoteric skills --
I try to give every character I make hobbies that they've spent points on,
because it really rounds them out, and I don't consider dropping points in
skills much of a hardship, because as I mentioned earlier I reward players
for it. =)
KS: wedding coordinator and KS: particle physics may cost the same amount
of points, and they may represent two people's different hobbies or
professions (to take myself and an uncle as an example). What's wrong with
that? If I two PCs with those skills a game, I'd come up with different
adventures where both had a chance to shine in their respective fields.
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
www.mactyre.net
Your children will see the stars.
--Robert A. Heinlein
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:44:16 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Reply-To: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut (long)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 33
First of all this is the Juggernaut of quite a while time ago. I don't
know how he is now (or if he has really changed... I think someone
commented this)
I just translated the Marvel Superheroes RPG to Hero through some rules
I created... the reason of those stats are:
On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria writes:
> >
> > 50 Str........x1 10 N/A 40
> Going by OHTMU stats, Juggernaut has STR 60. Going by demonstrated abilities,
> he has a strength of 80-90, with extra strength only usable to avoid being
> stopped.
Just used the STR equivalent stat, which gave STR of 60, that's 50 +
10 of his growth. He would not be more strong than STR 60 really, but
he can receive some extra strength only usable to avoid being stopped.
And by the way, what is OHTMU ?
> > 7 Dex........x3 10 N/A -9
> Rather low. Juggernaut is less agile than most heroes, but he isn't notably
> more clumsy than a normal human. I'd give him 10 or 11.
This is just the AG (agility) stat of Marvel Superheroes. He has the
2nd worst possible stat in it (Poor)... the worst (feeble) I considered
about 5 and Poor 7. Normal humans would have stat TY (forgot what word
this means) which is the 3rd worst possible stat. According to them he
would be a bit clumsy than a normal human... maybe not 7, but 8, but I
agree that his dexterity is lesser than a normal human.
> > 1 SPD........x10 1.7 N/A -7
> The closest equivalent to 'spd' in comic books is 'number of panels received'.
> By this measure Juggs has a SPD of at least 4.
> >
This I used the average of AG and IN stats. Juggernaut is really very
horrible in this aspect at Marvel Superheroes RPG. I think his SPD should
not be more than 3... probably 2... but maybe also 1... just imagine
juggernaut fighting for example policemen... I don't think he would do a
number of actions more than the number of shots the policemen would fire.
> > pts. Power/Skill END
> > 68 Running +34"
> Um...just give him +4" running with a speed of 4. He doesn't teleport
about
> the battlefield or anything.
That running is just so that his maximum running speed would be
equivalent in the one in Marvel Superheroes... in this case, about 13 m/s
(noncombat). Maybe his big speed is also one of the facts that make him
more unstoppable.
In cases when characters with speed very low are in combat, I usually
treat them as they have double speed but act only half phase in each
phase... this avoids the problem of a character move and then stay
"paralysed" for quite a time. In case of big movements like this, they can
be divided by segments to see each segment where he is. This doesn't let
him teleport. Of course, the combat gets a little more complex, but also
more realistic.
> Also, he should have at least 10" of knockback resistance, probably more like
> 15-20".
>
Not sure if he would have knockback resistance just because if he is
heavy or also have some other reason. If just because he is heavy than he
would have just the knockback resistance given by growth... if there would
also be another reason than that's alright.
Thinking directly on comics, cyclop could only push him as he did if
he has about 24 DC if Juggernaut have about 15-20" KB res.
Actually what I would add is: extra strength and knockback resistance,
both only usable against stopping him; and maybe alter his speed.
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:53:53 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 28
> > It works well for simulating density decrease, as it works out as well.
> > You lose the benefits but weigh a lot less, and get the extra KB. My
> > Vision type character used it, get really light, have someone toss you,
> > and fire up the Density increase for the big punch. Very nasty move
> > throughs that way.
>
> IMO, "density decrease" short of insubstantiality (about the only way the
> Vision ever uses this trick) is not a useful ability. After all, look
> what's left of the Shrinking Power after removing the size change element:
> all that remains is the disadvantageous portion (the extra KB). Sounds more
> like a Physical Limitation than a Power to me.
Well, for some reason you still have an increased DCV, unless you
include that it the limitation (I would in most cases) which would up the
limitation value. Also, specify "no growth attack adds". Which leaves
you with, yes, the (somewhat) disadvantageous increased KB. Not totally,
though, as KB damage *does not* increase. Also, you are light enough to
do _______. Fill in the blank.
-Tim Gilberg
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Nested Force Walls [Or, the Linked Debate once Again]
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 21 Nov 1997 11:54:11 -0500
Lines: 29
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 40
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
TRG> Well, it was available for YDLD (Ye Dread Linked Debate) to be
TRG> avoided, but the Champion of the "Yes you cans" had to fire an
TRG> unexpected and unwise attack furthering that particular position.
TRG> That said, take cover.
Pardon me, Tim, but the list readership was asked for *opinions*, and I
gave mine.
Deal with it.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNHW8rp6VRH7BJMxHAQEcdQP/Q/XG9ZafWJklrfcO4UhtEmqeQwrNN1XR
0wZeV/+92WPU5AC408+3kfQBBOBvT+7ws8NNZNm6PR31/zOOh0lLc6hd92n7pP5k
MuAEAhevjpvg/EL/vinXjmvyTaF0Il8JbzOPHUMjwLiT6jj5m2QvA8TIjvSOltd5
SwyT5lCjVmY=
=fx+e
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:55:36 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 27
> >> I knew this was going to come up again. :-)
> >
> > What!? The list has *seen* this discussion before?!?
>
> I think he was referring to the "first sentence principle" which was
> threaded somewhere into my posts.
Ah. Nope. Never seen it. Must be a figment of your imagination.
> > And on the same token, the entire set of effects of each and every
> >power is the effect of the power. As limitations allow a power to lose an
> >effect (it does less, therefor it is less usefull), a power could
> >conceivably be pared down to merely one of its effects.
>
> ... at which point one will realize there is a better way of executing that
> effect.
Quite possibly. Also, quite possibly not. For instance, I _like_
that 1d6 EB, does no BOD, does no stun, does no KB (SFX-Flashlight).
Cheap and it works.
-Tim Gilberg
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 21 Nov 1997 11:56:27 -0500
Lines: 35
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 39
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
>> The flaw in your reasoning is to assume that powers have effects. They do
>> not. Effects have powers. You look at the effect to determine the powers
>> to use, not the other way around.
TRG> Almost got it there, Rat.
TRG> Effects need powers to define them.
"Effects have powers."
TRG> Powers come with set mechanics.
"[Powers] do not [have effects]."
Where did I misspeak?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNHW9Np6VRH7BJMxHAQFK9AP+Njk56WlPdyDq9iIlWLrNkaKDVqieB3yu
k9bA3VimRf/IXF/jb2ift9o5oImoyrM+7nL+HNfIIzumIMGknu09qKpRhclbbejP
KvQ7BShH2YEFXeuaSE1HwRrvdF4F9Z0WmOUKJgZ9PqNGcvgT/aZppLPco9+X3UrI
us2b5yq7lWA=
=mk/X
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 21 Nov 1997 11:58:12 -0500
Lines: 36
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 36
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "DM" == Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com> writes:
DM> What about when you need to cross a rope bridge,
Flight or gliding.
DM> or when you need to be thrown a great distance,
Ditto.
DM> or when you use it against others so that you can knock them back
DM> further,
Extra KB on the attack.
DM> or when you reduce your mass for teleporting purposes, etc.
Illegal, as it circumvents a mechanic inherent in the power.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNHW9oZ6VRH7BJMxHAQFD1AP/fpclFn1SNtnMTJVWgKGbr+zuXmoTS4CA
g7ZAGwuYyl4wGKTfze0l+3BgBrvwk59a4z2nRPqSOgoyPajTSPTDyEEojD8h99lj
EuDRAstSVAt0SJBqyh7JzNY5CJJJRv4JifGN88ZlX0ceL2uBcuZneZfOU1mltbNa
5y1P3eWYlBw=
=dnnm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: On the ground gliding
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 21 Nov 1997 12:01:29 -0500
Lines: 35
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 35
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "VL" == Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com> writes:
VL> Yes -- and then you stop when you switch to Gliding, because you can't
VL> fall 1" and therefore can't maintain forward velocity. :/ That's the
VL> way it works -- you can't Glide at 0" off the ground.
Yup, which is why I have a problem with using Gliding as a "walk without a
trace" effect. But I suppose it is workable if you balance "cannot lose
altitude" with "cannot gain altitude", leaving you with a +/-0 modifier...
but now you have limited Flight.
>> How would you simulate the effects of a character with Air Walking
>> (the ability to walk in air as if it were sold)?
VL> 6" Flight, No Turn Mode (+1/2).
No, use skill levels to negate the turn mode (or reduce it to 1") instead
of creating a new advantage.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNHW+ZZ6VRH7BJMxHAQGQIwQAkVunmvgT/0kvneWADrg+uE5i+u+Kq8wj
bAJYyHnRnCD0O7+feJZ21pe75tyhLpk1wBiNfJfbu2QBeZyzfzpjcsHeDzvDsV9f
PlrJV9rccY8xY0xvA0xU+hx1SQn/2KKs55iqi1aJg54ryttZDzC9QM25OmIR39Tl
0swFH86Pm18=
=eboL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: writing up yourself / points for skills
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 21 Nov 1997 12:05:55 -0500
Lines: 29
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 38
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "CH" == Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> writes:
CH> Depending on how 'detailed' ? / 'intensive' ? / 'anal' ? you want to
CH> get, I can see somebody spending a GREAT deal of points just on their
CH> careers/jobs. For instance, I've been working at one company for over
CH> 10 years.
So you have a 12- roll, give or take a little bit, in whatever single
professional skill encompasses your job, and maybe a few 8- to 11- skills
to support it. I do not consider 10 points to be a great deal even for a
"normal" person.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNHW/b56VRH7BJMxHAQFsaAP/aMpvEocpPdAkk1LTRGfVeKv3d0f0FMU6
bSYXrIgjTEyr0xBCAC+hrE7E2MWQS1oE4xStLfKk7XEp5TNQSdF8BYh9Ze3DJYTW
HlDGiYEm6DfhH6z4+tS/tav+5h9LPqhY7jMKUWMf9OQrAwv9hFVPUQmSTUw/lyX5
1XHE7r47Kkw=
=AcHl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:27:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut (long)
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 31
Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria writes:
> I just translated the Marvel Superheroes RPG to Hero through some rules
> I created... the reason of those stats are:
You tried to translate certain stats literally, which is generally a bad thing.
> Just used the STR equivalent stat, which gave STR of 60, that's 50 +
> 10 of his growth. He would not be more strong than STR 60 really, but
> he can receive some extra strength only usable to avoid being stopped.
>
> And by the way, what is OHTMU ?
Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. Most likely the same source as where
MSH got its stats. The figures it gives for people's strengths, based on
demonstrated ability (i.e. what they actually do in a comic book), are
generally ludicrously low. You'll be more accurate if you just assume that
someone with supposed lifting ability of 10-100 tons has a Hero strength of
40+(T/2) or thereabout (for lower strength, direct conversion is reasonable),
which gives Juggernaut (class 90, I think) a strength of about 85.
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:02:55 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut - Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 30
On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. Most likely the same source as where
> MSH got its stats. The figures it gives for people's strengths, based on
> demonstrated ability (i.e. what they actually do in a comic book), are
> generally ludicrously low. You'll be more accurate if you just assume that
> someone with supposed lifting ability of 10-100 tons has a Hero strength of
> 40+(T/2) or thereabout (for lower strength, direct conversion is reasonable),
> which gives Juggernaut (class 90, I think) a strength of about 85.
I think that's really too much... STR 85 would be able to lift 3,200
tons.
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:51:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut - Strength
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 32
Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria writes:
>
> I think that's really too much... STR 85 would be able to lift 3,200
> tons.
Juggernaut isn't all that big on the lifting feats, but he has a tendency to go
head to head with the hulk, who is -- and the hulk has a tendency to pick up
mountains. 3200 tons isn't nearly as much as it sounds like; its a small cargo
ship, or a few locomotives, or a ball of rock between 10 and 15 meters across.
Hell, at 60 strength juggs can barely pick up and throw a tank (he'll toss it
about 4 meters), and can only damage it by haymakering on the side walls. Your
average 747 weighs around 150 tons, and I've seen characters who aren't
supposed to be as strong as juggs heave them around.
X-Sender: wga@pop.cwru.edu
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:59:28 -0500
From: Will Austin <wga@po.cwru.edu>
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut - Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 34
<x-rich>At 04:02 PM 11/21/97 -0200, you wrote:
>On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>> Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. Most likely the same source as where
>> MSH got its stats. The figures it gives for people's strengths, based on
>> demonstrated ability (i.e. what they actually do in a comic book), are
>> generally ludicrously low. You'll be more accurate if you just assume that
>> someone with supposed lifting ability of 10-100 tons has a Hero strength of
>> 40+(T/2) or thereabout (for lower strength, direct conversion is reasonable),
>> which gives Juggernaut (class 90, I think) a strength of about 85.
>
> I think that's really too much... STR 85 would be able to lift 3,200
>tons.
But would be plausible for the Juggernaut given the strength he's shown in the comics. . .
============================================================================
Nomad
wga@po.cwru.edu
myrtth@geocities.com
"Wee such stuff as dreams are made on, and our little life is rounded
with a sleep."
--Shakespeare, <bold><italic>The Tempest</italic></bold>,
IV.i.148
============================================================================
</x-rich>
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:59:32 -0800
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut - Strength
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 37
-> From gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br Fri Nov 21 10:10:07 1997
->
-> On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Anthony Jackson wrote:
-> > Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. Most likely the same source as where
-> > MSH got its stats. The figures it gives for people's strengths, based on
-> > demonstrated ability (i.e. what they actually do in a comic book), are
-> > generally ludicrously low. You'll be more accurate if you just assume that
-> > someone with supposed lifting ability of 10-100 tons has a Hero strength of
-> > 40+(T/2) or thereabout (for lower strength, direct conversion is reasonable),
-> > which gives Juggernaut (class 90, I think) a strength of about 85.
->
-> I think that's really too much... STR 85 would be able to lift 3,200
-> tons.
->
I disagree. 3200 tons sounds like a lot, but it translates to a hunk of rock
a little less than 5 hexes on a side. Not that earthshaking, really.
Here's what I wrote on this very subject more than a year ago:
(lifted from the faq to my write-ups)
4.3 Why did you give character X Str Y, when the Marvel Handbook says
they should have Str Z?
A: The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe is a wondeful book.
I have great admiration for Mark Gruenwald and Peter Sanderson,
however, the strengths are wrong at the high end. They do not
correspond to what has been shown in the comics, time and time
again. Let's use the Thing for an example. The OHOTMU says he
can lift 85 tons. 85 tons sounds like a lot, but it corresponds
to a block of stone 2.77m on a side. Ben uses rocks that size
to throw at people, one handed. If we figure backwards for
champions str (85 tons = 58.66 Str) things get worse. Ben can't
uproot a medium sized tree (5def 8 bod) in a single phase,
he can't crush a howitzer barrel (6 def 8 body) with his bare
hands: is this the blue-eyed idol o' millions?
Another problem is that all the brick's strengths come out too
close together if we figure backwards from OHOTMU:
OHOTMU figured str
Doc Samson 50 tons 54.83
Colossus 75 tons 57.75
Thing 85 tons 58.66
Thor 100 tons 59.83
In the comics, Thor is significantly stronger than Colossus, and
2.08 str is not significant enough, IMHO (Yes, I know all about
the logarithmic nature of Champs Str, I just think that Thor is
more than 1.333 times stronger than Colossus).
So what to do? I needed a yardstick from which to measure power
levels, and strength seemed the best. After all, which is better,
Vision's heat vision or the Human Torch's blast? It is hard to tell
from the comics. But it is clear that Wonderman is stronger than
Powerman, even though the two never arm-wrestled. How do we know?
Because there have been enough contests of strength down the years
to accurately gauge everyone's relative Strs (even though the
absolute values are vague). I had to make an executive decision
and arrived at this formula:
Write-up's Str= Greater Of [ Str figured backwards from OHOTMU value,
OHOTMU value in tons]
Not only does this address the problems mentioned above, but it has
the important benefit of 'feeling right' to me. 85 Str sounds about
right for the Thing and 58.66 doesn't, IMHO. I could have done it
any number of other ways, but I had to pick one, and this is what I
picked. Many people don't like this, and I don't blame them. As
soon as they come up with a better way to do it, then write-up and
post 200+ characters using their system, I'll be happy to sit back
and offer my constructive criticism.
-Sam
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:14:10 -0500 (EST)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut - Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria writes:
>>
>> I think that's really too much... STR 85 would be able to lift 3,200
>> tons.
>
>Juggernaut isn't all that big on the lifting feats, but he has a tendency to go
Very true. Juggs doesn't do a whole lot of lifting period - he's more of an
in-yer-face fighter than a tosser. I don't ever recall seeing him strain to
lift things, though. The only way to judge Juggs strength is the amount of
collateral damage he dishes out - which is LOTS. I don't know if he's
actually completely unstoppable, but his 'general' unstoppableness merits a
LOT of STR.
>head to head with the hulk, who is -- and the hulk has a tendency to pick up
>mountains. 3200 tons isn't nearly as much as it sounds like; its a small cargo
>ship, or a few locomotives, or a ball of rock between 10 and 15 meters across.
>Hell, at 60 strength juggs can barely pick up and throw a tank (he'll toss it
>about 4 meters),
Which is rediculous. I'd bet Juggs could toss a tank for a couple miles.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"By all that's unholy, the Enigma Force has given Captain Universe the power
to back up his sickening platitudes!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 21 Nov 1997 15:29:22 -0500
Lines: 30
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
TRG> Well, for some reason you still have an increased DCV, unless you
TRG> include that it the limitation (I would in most cases) which would up
TRG> the limitation value.
If with limited shrinking size does not change, then CV does not change
since the increased DCV is due to decreased size.
Are you people beginning to see just how silly this is? Please, work from
the effects back to the power(s) that simulate the effects rather than
trying to wedge a power into fitting an effect.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNHXvHJ6VRH7BJMxHAQEHAQQAh8ScBcQWzLOFiWi0l+cnzaFDnwYFD2vh
FS/3/HvjGX1rwtEuHAe8j0/vjgx8DmLiW4OLOvxtXRsMZIRSdbRLKpi6vfXK+5Ht
P54f8AvAhmtQ2GSarZNnSxFr4lT2VepSE620nOE3x+vsMe9f3ThTLwns5AIPgaZA
P9sHQmvFViQ=
=U0wt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:36:42 -0500
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: Non shrinking shrinking
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> Are you people beginning to see just how silly this is? Please, work from
> the effects back to the power(s) that simulate the effects rather than
> trying to wedge a power into fitting an effect.
I want some of the effects listed in the Shrinking table; thus, I buy
Shrinking and limit out the ones I don't want. Simple!
Geoff Speare
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:49:33 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Reply-To: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: Marvel Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Sam Bell wrote:
>
> -> From gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br Fri Nov 21 10:10:07 1997
> -> I think that's really too much... STR 85 would be able to lift 3,200
> -> tons.
> ->
>
> I disagree. 3200 tons sounds like a lot, but it translates to a hunk of rock
> a little less than 5 hexes on a side. Not that earthshaking, really.
>
> Here's what I wrote on this very subject more than a year ago:
>
> (lifted from the faq to my write-ups)
<snip>
> OHOTMU figured str
> Doc Samson 50 tons 54.83
> Colossus 75 tons 57.75
> Thing 85 tons 58.66
> Thor 100 tons 59.83
>
<snip>
I understood your point of view, but I think I am one of those, that
as you said, doesn't like to put Thor to 100 STR just to be a lot more of
the others. If you put to 100 STR because you think he can lift more
than I agree, but not just to bystand others. To me, that happens just
because their strength is already so huge, that adding that "little :)"
more doesn't affect much the STR. That's how Hero seems to be in my
vision, that's why his stats are exponencial. In my opinion the stats
would be just that... (the figured)
How did you calculate the size of rock you can lift with X Strength ?
That seems useful.
[]s.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 21 Nov 1997 16:05:30 -0500
Lines: 24
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "GS" == Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org> writes:
GS> I want some of the effects listed in the Shrinking table; thus, I buy
GS> Shrinking and limit out the ones I don't want. Simple!
Like what? List the effects you want.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNHX3lJ6VRH7BJMxHAQFqvwQAvKmtFhy5hqwbPAZWd5x/34tq7EWbptVF
ob60vT8HpkrEO+7al3GDAdKoc02BWZNsv3EEi2tjBCzb+CT0wLfNOkglyPr6BIIs
YeEjbLmJyqXmlGQ3Uvwlle0mz45jQorsNDRVw/g4qT5buqRMQSUQoMtAjqnp5Zge
xpzVzJCnSfs=
=bAH8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:09:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Marvel Strength
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria writes:
>
> How did you calculate the size of rock you can lift with X Strength ?
> That seems useful.
The weight of a boulder is typically 1-2*D^3 tons, where D is diameter in
meters; a spherical boulder has a volume of 4/3*pi*R^3, or roughly .53D^3, and
will probably have a density of 2-4 tons/m^3; most boulders are, of course,
fairly irregular, but this is reasonable as a rough estimate.
Incidentally, a typical comic book boulder (the sort various energy projectors
like to reduce to rubble to demonstrate their power) is usually about 3 meters
across, giving it a weight of about 50 tons; it also has a DEF of 4-5, and
(using the body for simple inanimate objects table) has about 13 body. This
implies that a typical high-end energy projector (cyclops, say) in the MU is
throwing about 18 dice (16 if we're really conservative), and juggernaut's
attacks should at least be on a par with that.
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:24:24 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut (long)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> This I used the average of AG and IN stats. Juggernaut is really very
> horrible in this aspect at Marvel Superheroes RPG. I think his SPD should
> not be more than 3... probably 2... but maybe also 1... just imagine
> juggernaut fighting for example policemen... I don't think he would do a
> number of actions more than the number of shots the policemen would fire.
OK. Here's our problem. This debate is going on with two
different sources being used to justify arguments.
Time to put a stop to something pointless.
The best way, repeat, the best way to "convert" a character is to
look at the abilities from the most reliable source and work out Champions
terms, keeping in mind the Champions mechanics.
In this case, one of our debators is trying to forward the Marvel
RPG as source, which had an awful lot of poorly thought out mistakes.
Here, the solution is to look at the comic book sources.
In this case, even though the RPG says he is only so strong, he
has demonstrated being much stronger, in Champs terms. Same on SPD and
DEX, where he is a little better than typical, rather than worse.
Look at the most reliable source. Repeat after me class -- Look
at the most reliable source.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:25:42 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: On the ground gliding
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> VL> Yes -- and then you stop when you switch to Gliding, because you can't
> VL> fall 1" and therefore can't maintain forward velocity. :/ That's the
> VL> way it works -- you can't Glide at 0" off the ground.
>
> Yup, which is why I have a problem with using Gliding as a "walk without a
> trace" effect. But I suppose it is workable if you balance "cannot lose
> altitude" with "cannot gain altitude", leaving you with a +/-0 modifier...
> but now you have limited Flight.
Which is what Gliding should be, anyway; rather than a seperate
power.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:29:29 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> DM> What about when you need to cross a rope bridge,
>
> Flight or gliding.
>
> DM> or when you need to be thrown a great distance,
>
> Ditto.
Possibly, but a Density Decrease seems to fit better. Though I
could see flight or superleap, UBO for the second.
> DM> or when you use it against others so that you can knock them back
> DM> further,
>
> Extra KB on the attack.
But your "Anti-Inertia" ray will affect your target for your
teammate's attacks as well. Either Density Decrease, UAO, or, perhaps,
suppress/dispell KB resist. (But you'd have to allow those dice normally
rolled for KB resist to be Suppressed/Dispelled. That's messy)
> DM> or when you reduce your mass for teleporting purposes, etc.
>
> Illegal, as it circumvents a mechanic inherent in the power.
Um. Wrong. In that case, someone who is just plain shrunk would
be illegal for circumventing that same mechanic. Try again, Rat. This
time use some real arguments rather than ways to spurriously justify your,
"It's not the way I play Hero" argument.
-Tim Gilberg
From: "VANSICKLE, James" <jvansickle@shl.com>
Subject: RE: empathy
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:31:14 -0600
Encoding: 19 TEXT
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Try "Accidental Change: Effected by mob emotions."
>----------
>From: potroast@theoven[SMTP:darkwraith@worldnet.att.net]
>Sent: Friday, November 21, 1997 3:27 PM
>To: champ-l@omg.org
>Subject: empathy
>
>Hi,
> I'm designing a empathy-based character, I'm haveing a little promblem
>hammering out two disads: "leaking"- projecting the character's emotions on
>normals (and on a really good roll, supers) around her. Also "imprinting"-
>having the surrounding her become her own. your help would greatly be
>appeciated.
> --Potroast
>"Anyone who says "like taking candy from a baby" has, obviously, never
>tried it"
>
>
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:32:51 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> TRG> Effects need powers to define them.
>
> "Effects have powers."
>
> TRG> Powers come with set mechanics.
>
> "[Powers] do not [have effects]."
>
> Where did I misspeak?
More in the Non Sequitur (sp?) you leapt to. I'd go back to your
original post, but I deleated it.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:34:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: empathy
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sat, 22 Nov 1997, potroast@theoven wrote:
> I'm designing a empathy-based character, I'm haveing a little promblem
> hammering out two disads: "leaking"- projecting the character's emotions on
> normals (and on a really good roll, supers) around her. Also "imprinting"-
> having the surrounding her become her own. your help would greatly be
> appeciated.
A few dice of Telepathy, Area Effect, Emotions Only, No Conscious Control
would probably do this, but as you say, these are disadvantages, not
powers as such.
The "leaking" I would call a physical limitation, determining the point
value from the frequency of occurence and the severity of effect. If the
effect were too useful, I'd charge for it as a power as well, but probably
you've already bought some empathic powers already.
The imprinting is more likely a Psych Lim, since I assume she can control
the absorbed feeling to some degree with an EGO Roll, and surely can
control her actions to some extent even when deeply affected.
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:37:58 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> TRG> Well, for some reason you still have an increased DCV, unless you
> TRG> include that it the limitation (I would in most cases) which would up
> TRG> the limitation value.
>
> If with limited shrinking size does not change, then CV does not change
> since the increased DCV is due to decreased size.
No, not actually. That is the rationale, but those are two
seperate mechanics provided by this power. I'd probably go with common
sense and include them together (along with the -PER modifiers) in a
(quite limiting) limitation. Face it, the power ain't all that useful,
therefore, it ain't all that expensive.
> Are you people beginning to see just how silly this is? Please, work from
> the effects back to the power(s) that simulate the effects rather than
> trying to wedge a power into fitting an effect.
Eh? Now you're contradicting yourself. You just agreed with me
that to define a SFX in Champions you must use existing powers and their
mechanics. This does, and quite well as its the only thing that actually
includes the effect of reducing Mass.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:43:50 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: empathy
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> I'm designing a empathy-based character, I'm haveing a little promblem
> hammering out two disads: "leaking"- projecting the character's emotions on
> normals (and on a really good roll, supers) around her. Also "imprinting"-
> having the surrounding her become her own. your help would greatly be
> appeciated.
Ah, interesting.
The first one is a simple mind control with lots (and I mean lots)
of modifiers. First, an AOE to cover a radius of people around her.
Might need some extra area.
Now, limitations. First is Emotions Only, at -1/2. Then, only
emotions character currently under, -? -- maybe -1/2, maybe -1, I'd go
with the latter.
Perhaps this will be at 0END, persistent, always on as well? Or
maybe only when actively using powers.
The second is more difficult. I need some clarification. To what
extent can the character change the area around? Small atmospheric
changes? A drabness or brightness, perhaps? What?
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:46:25 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Marvel Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> I understood your point of view, but I think I am one of those, that
> as you said, doesn't like to put Thor to 100 STR just to be a lot more of
> the others. If you put to 100 STR because you think he can lift more
> than I agree, but not just to bystand others. To me, that happens just
> because their strength is already so huge, that adding that "little :)"
> more doesn't affect much the STR. That's how Hero seems to be in my
> vision, that's why his stats are exponencial. In my opinion the stats
> would be just that... (the figured)
But you miss the point. The problem with going with MSH rules
figured STRs is that game grossly underestimated STRs. You would have
seen that if you had read the entire post. These heros can lift a lot
more than that game grants them. For instance, at that 60 STR, these
heros could, as someone just said, through a tank but 4 meters. That's
just plain wrong.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:53:34 -0800
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
Subject: Re: Marvel Strength
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-> From gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br Fri Nov 21 12:48:23 1997
->
->
-> How did you calculate the size of rock you can lift with X Strength ?
-> That seems useful.
->
Well, first I figure out how many tons they can lift:
lift(tons) = 0.025*2^^(Str/5)
Since 1 cubic meter of water = 1 metric ton, that tells me how much water the character
could lift. Then I just divide by the specific density of the material in question:
Wood 0.5-1.0grams/cm^^3
Rock ~4.0grams/cm^^3
Iron ~8.0grams/cm^^3
Lead ~11.0grams/cm^^3
Gold ~19.0grams/cm^^3
This gives me the volume of material X that a character can lift. Take the cube root to
get the size of one edge.
So 85 Str = 3276.8 tons = 819 m^^3 of rock = a cube 9.35m (a little less than 5") on a side.
-Sam
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:00:34 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Marvel Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> across, giving it a weight of about 50 tons; it also has a DEF of 4-5, and
> (using the body for simple inanimate objects table) has about 13 body. This
> implies that a typical high-end energy projector (cyclops, say) in the MU is
> throwing about 18 dice (16 if we're really conservative), and juggernaut's
> attacks should at least be on a par with that.
And of course, should have a STR high enough to throw said boulder
anywhere from a few dozen meters to a few miles to a few hundred miles.
(More, perhaps?)
-Tim Gilberg
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:04:39 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
With bricks I have been building lately, I buy them extra STR only lift
items (nondamaging, cant hold, only pick things up) and HTA levels, so thier
actual strength isnt titanic and silly, but they will LOOK like characters
from the comics.
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:33:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Strength
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Christopher Taylor writes:
> With bricks I have been building lately, I buy them extra STR only lift
> items (nondamaging, cant hold, only pick things up) and HTA levels, so
> thier actual strength isnt titanic and silly, but they will LOOK like
> characters from the comics.
Why? Just give them the extra strength, it isn't like 15-18d6 is actually all
that much damage, and it usually better matches their ability to do damage to
the scenery as well.
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 23:52:23 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Subject: Re: Marvel Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
> > I understood your point of view, but I think I am one of those, that
> > as you said, doesn't like to put Thor to 100 STR just to be a lot more of
> > the others. If you put to 100 STR because you think he can lift more
> > than I agree, but not just to bystand others. To me, that happens just
> > because their strength is already so huge, that adding that "little :)"
> > more doesn't affect much the STR. That's how Hero seems to be in my
> > vision, that's why his stats are exponencial. In my opinion the stats
> > would be just that... (the figured)
>
> But you miss the point. The problem with going with MSH rules
> figured STRs is that game grossly underestimated STRs. You would have
> seen that if you had read the entire post.
That is why I used an IF in the third line. In one part of the post he
said the STR was very low... this would be IF = true. In other he seemed
to argue against the fact that if one lift 100 tons and other 75 tons the
difference of their strength be only 2... this would be IF = false.
According to you, the IF would be true, in this case, as I said, I
agree and regret the fact that information not being right.
> more than that game grants them. For instance, at that 60 STR, these
> heros could, as someone just said, through a tank but 4 meters. That's
> just plain wrong.
>
I am not in position to argue about how much strength juggs would have
because I saw only a few stories with him.... but what I thought of him by
what I have seen was exactly that... a tank is very heavy... only with a
push he would do a standing throw of 12m. But a car he could make a
standing throw of 24m without any problem. That's one crossroad to
another where I live. These seemed quite reasonable to me based on what I
saw of him. But I am sure there is people here who knows him pretty better
than me. Although this is not really related to the list, I think it would
be OK if someone describe a throw of this kind (car, tank, etc)
that showed in a story just to finish off this topic. If the person
does not want to send to the list, may send to me... I am curious now.
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:57:17 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: McAfee
Subject: Re: Reduced END Movement & NCM
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>
> At 06:57 PM 11/20/97 -0500, Eric Burns wrote:
> >Flight - 10" (20pts), x16 NCM (x32) (+20pts = 40pts)
> >
> >So far so good. Now here's the rub: GFH wants to buy the advantage
> >1/2 END (+1/4) for his flight power. Does this advantage apply
> >just to the 10", or does GFH have to purchase it on the whole
> >power. In other words, does GFH's flight power look like this:
> >
> >Flight - 10" (20pts), 1/2 END [+1/4] (+5 = 25pts);
> > x16 NCM (x32) (+20pts = 45pts)
> >
> I would let the Player buy this, and it would mean that he only
> gets the 1/2 END cost at speeds up to his base x2 NCM. If he goes
> faster, he burns full END.
Problem. You do not spend additional END for Non-Combat Movement.
I'd say the page number, but the BBB is not at my work.
> I also let Players buy differing END costs on parts of a Power.
> Ex: EBs that are exponentially difficult (higher END cost for
> additional dice).
Perfectly OK, but a different topic.
-Mark
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 20:59:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Not-so-normal write-ups
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
you go first...
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:01:57 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 04:33 PM 11/21/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Christopher Taylor writes:
>> With bricks I have been building lately, I buy them extra STR only lift
>> items (nondamaging, cant hold, only pick things up) and HTA levels, so
>> thier actual strength isnt titanic and silly, but they will LOOK like
>> characters from the comics.
>
>Why? Just give them the extra strength, it isn't like 15-18d6 is actually all
>that much damage, and it usually better matches their ability to do damage to
>the scenery as well.
Because they damage the opponents similarly, and I think Champions players
really lose track of just how strong even 30 STR is. Strength does a lot of
different things, including jump and the ability to hold someone in your
arms, not ALL kinds of strength neccessarily include each of strength's
benefits.
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 12:10:53 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
Subject: Re: Strength
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 04:33 PM 11/21/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Christopher Taylor writes:
>> With bricks I have been building lately, I buy them extra STR only lift
>> items (nondamaging, cant hold, only pick things up) and HTA levels, so
>> thier actual strength isnt titanic and silly, but they will LOOK like
>> characters from the comics.
>
>Why? Just give them the extra strength, it isn't like 15-18d6 is actually all
>that much damage, and it usually better matches their ability to do damage to
>the scenery as well.
>
well, how about tk instead? it's not like you can lift a jumbo jet with your hands without tearing it apart anyway. .
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:57:25 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> >> That's why I still prefer an informal approach to general skills. I assume
> >> a given superhero is a well-rounded, functional adult with a normal range
> >> of interests, unless the character concept says otherwise. Trying to buy
> >> every last skill just doesn't work well in Hero terms.
> >
> >A perfect solution, since most of the time, buying every last skill doesn't
> >really enhance game play any.
Yeah.
If you want detailed skill lists, you go to Fuzion or GURPS.
If you want difficulty levels with it, go to GURPS.
Champions started out as a 4 color Super Hero RPG. And this is where it works
best.
It's never been good for serious or detailed genres.
Much as I hate to admit it, Fuzion is a much better choice for a game needing
detailed
skills and a hard core feel. Of course, it loses it in the powers area, but
that's fitting with the
'realism' genre, which likes to ignore the fact that super's have powers as often
as it can...
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:01:08 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
CC: hero-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Hmm
I think for you GURPS Supers would be the perfect RPG choice.
It's always been critisized for the very point you seem to desire. That of doing
comparable damge at lower lifting capacities.
A brick in GURPS on an equal damage ability to a normal power level energy
projector
might have a lifting ability of as little as 1 to 3 tons or so.
> With bricks I have been building lately, I buy them extra STR only lift
> items (nondamaging, cant hold, only pick things up) and HTA levels, so thier
> actual strength isnt titanic and silly, but they will LOOK like characters
> from the comics.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:21:57 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>Hmm
> I think for you GURPS Supers would be the perfect RPG choice.
>It's always been critisized for the very point you seem to desire. That of
>doing comparable damge at lower lifting capacities.
>
> A brick in GURPS on an equal damage ability to a normal power level energy
>projector might have a lifting ability of as little as 1 to 3 tons or so.
um, Im not sure what you are trying to say here, the bricks do as much
damage as energy projectors with the same power level? Exactly how does
this differ from every other game system?
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
X-Originating-IP: [207.24.16.23]
From: "Garrett Hashimoto" <constantine1000@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: On the ground gliding
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:27:30 PST
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> If you have Gliding, only on the ground, so you hovered mere
>inches off the floor, could you use your forward motion from, let's
>say, running, to get you moving?
>
> How would you simulate the effects of a character with Air Walking
>(the ability to walk in air as if it were sold)?
> What sort of powers/limitations would you use to simulate
>Levitation?
>
How about just flying "Only on ground,Only at walking pace"? So maybe
just buying 3" of flying or something.
As for levitation, X" flying "Only for going straight up or down"?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 22:51:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Rook wrote:
> Hmm
> I think for you GURPS Supers would be the perfect RPG choice.
> It's always been critisized for the very point you seem to desire. That of doing
>
> comparable damge at lower lifting capacities.
>
> A brick in GURPS on an equal damage ability to a normal power level energy
> projector
> might have a lifting ability of as little as 1 to 3 tons or so.
Heh, I've always felt that GURPS Supers bricks were *far* to weak. *None*
of them ever seemed to have the lifting ability of many comicbook
characters.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 14:02:44 +1000
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by topaz.cqu.edu.au
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
X-Sender: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 06:57 PM 11/21/97 -0800, you wrote:
>> >> That's why I still prefer an informal approach to general skills. I assume
>> >> a given superhero is a well-rounded, functional adult with a normal range
>> >> of interests, unless the character concept says otherwise. Trying to buy
>> >> every last skill just doesn't work well in Hero terms.
>> >
>> >A perfect solution, since most of the time, buying every last skill doesn't
>> >really enhance game play any.
>
> Yeah.
>
>If you want detailed skill lists, you go to Fuzion or GURPS.
>If you want difficulty levels with it, go to GURPS.
>
>Champions started out as a 4 color Super Hero RPG. And this is where it works
>best.
>It's never been good for serious or detailed genres.
>
excuse me? look, it's often a simple case of a lot of clunky additional rules
being considered 'better' because they're overly complex. Detailed
skill lists can be achieved in any game, if the SOURCE matirial is good.
Remember, HERO is a multi-genre system, it isn't meant to be ultra-
specific. It's childs play to make up skills, and hero involves the
maixm of 'vague vs specific' skill areas so that you don't have to
worry too much about imbalances. If a game needs detailed skill lists,
it's a matter of the sourcebooks you use, or the work you put in, not
the fundamental asects of the system. The only reason champions hasn't
been good for such genres, is that the support for the game has been bad.
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 23:08:43 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> >Hmm
> > I think for you GURPS Supers would be the perfect RPG choice.
> >It's always been critisized for the very point you seem to desire. That of
> >doing comparable damge at lower lifting capacities.
> >
> > A brick in GURPS on an equal damage ability to a normal power level energy
> >projector might have a lifting ability of as little as 1 to 3 tons or so.
>
> um, Im not sure what you are trying to say here, the bricks do as much
> damage as energy projectors with the same power level? Exactly how does
> this differ from every other game system?
Should have been simple.
A 12d6 attack Brick in champs is lifting 100 tons. That's equiv to the energy
projector's 12d6.
Average for most games.
Average for GURPS is about 13d6.
This gives a Brick who lifts 3,000 lbs. or 34,200 lbs. if they push it (extra
effort).
While both characters are average damage capacity for their relative game systems,
one has a much
higher lifting ability than the other.
In this case Hero comes out 4-color, and GURPS modern style.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 23:11:35 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
CC: hero-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> > Hmm
> > I think for you GURPS Supers would be the perfect RPG choice.
> > It's always been critisized for the very point you seem to desire. That of doing
> >
> > comparable damge at lower lifting capacities.
> >
> > A brick in GURPS on an equal damage ability to a normal power level energy
> > projector
> > might have a lifting ability of as little as 1 to 3 tons or so.
>
> Heh, I've always felt that GURPS Supers bricks were *far* to weak. *None*
> of them ever seemed to have the lifting ability of many comicbook
> characters.
Personally I agree. I prefer a more 4-color game. But it seemed like the person
here
was complaining about Hero bricks being able to lift more than they should when made
at the
same power level of the non-brick characters.
A person who feels that way is better using a system like GURPS where the brick
will be on power
with the other PC's without having a very high lifting capacity.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 23:21:13 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
CC: hero-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au wrote:
> At 06:57 PM 11/21/97 -0800, you wrote:
> >> >> That's why I still prefer an informal approach to general skills. I assume
> >> >> a given superhero is a well-rounded, functional adult with a normal range
> >> >> of interests, unless the character concept says otherwise. Trying to buy
> >> >> every last skill just doesn't work well in Hero terms.
> >> >
> >> >A perfect solution, since most of the time, buying every last skill doesn't
> >> >really enhance game play any.
> >
> > Yeah.
> >
> >If you want detailed skill lists, you go to Fuzion or GURPS.
> >If you want difficulty levels with it, go to GURPS.
> >
> >Champions started out as a 4 color Super Hero RPG. And this is where it works
> >best.
> >It's never been good for serious or detailed genres.
> >
>
> excuse me? look, it's often a simple case of a lot of clunky additional rules
> being considered 'better' because they're overly complex.
I disagree. As someone else said, to make a 'detailed character in Hero I
spend about 100 to 200 on skills, then I end up spending only 100 for a set of
super powers, this seems off-balance. The powers should cost about 10 times more.
This is achieved well in both GURPS and Fuzion. where the cost between the
powers
and skills is dramatically diferent enough to justify detailed skills without making
it cost more
than the powers set.
Hero just doesn't do that well, not without totally skewing the way the point
costs work.
Hero is a much better Super Hero game than either Fuzion of GURPS. But only if you
stick to
the genre (as I do). That means it needs to be four color and just totally skip out
on some of the
details.
Personally, when I run a SUPER game I think it's anal to aks for degree perks or
prerequisite
skills on my sciences. That's just not how the genre works. It isn't that 'precise'.
I jot down
PS: Scientist 12- and I'm done.
If I want more, I'll do it in a system set up for it. A system with a very
diferent cost between
powers and skills, or with a dificulty and prerequisite system built in.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
X-Originating-IP: [207.24.16.23]
From: "Garrett Hashimoto" <constantine1000@hotmail.com>
Subject: Hero Conversions
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 02:00:15 PST
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Please can anyone tell me where I can get a Marvel to Hero conversion
rules from? I want to run a Champions game in the Marvel Universe.
Thanks you.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 04:25:56 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 24
On Thursday, November 20, 1997 4:39 AM, David Fair wrote:
>>Where does everyone's Campaign-wide Average PC Power Level fall?
<<<
>
>I long ago got disgusted by how much you couldn't buy with the
standard
>250 points (background skills, perks, etc). To design an average
>professional person in america today takes anywhere from 150-175
points.
>To do myself (several hobbies, college degree, Combat Flight [A-10],
car,
>base, other skills) took 168 points!
I understand the problem, but I think a lot of it comes from what you
decide Familiarity is. Many years ago, before the 4th Ed., some
supplement from Hero said that an 8- was the equivalent of a
_Bachelor's Degree_. No, really.
This partly solves the problem, but it creates new ones. It means, of
course, that many knowledges, professional skills, or sciences that
you may understand well enough to get you a job or allow you to be
called knowledgeable wouldn't even go on the sheet. This is, I
believe, one of the greatest weaknesses of the Hero system.
Filksinger
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:52:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Mikhael Bornstein - AERE/W94 <mbornste@acs.ryerson.ca>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
I've been following this thread closely and I think that either I
overestimate the value of skills in champions or other people
underestimate them. I've been playing since '84 and I think that 2
or 3 points in a skill is a big deal. It represents a fairly significant
level of expertise.
For example, a practising lawyer would have PS: Lawyer (11-) and
PERK: Law license. That's it. For those three point a character would
have to spend 3 or 4 years in an undergraduate program, three years
in law school, at year articling, and pass their bar exam. It would
take that character 8 years to get those three points.
A professional engineer? PS: Mechanical Engineer (11-) and Perk:
Engineering Licence. Those three points represent 4 years in an accredited
engineering program, 3 years of professionally related experience, and the
successful completion of a professional ethics exam.
I have always interpreted this to mean that an 11- rating on a skill
means that the character is good enough to make a living performing that
skill. I have always interpreted familiarity (8-) with a skill to
represent a "talented amteur". The sort of person who with a little
seasoning and experience could become a professional. Anything less that
that would not be worth points although a character could include it in
their background.
You sing with your church choir: No skill
You solo for your church choir
and perform for free at local events: FAM: PS: Singer(8-)
You have performed professionally, would
be asked to do so again, & got paid: PS: Singer (11-)
A skill generally covers a lot of ground. You get a lot of stuff for
those 2 points. Another example. PS: Aerospace
Engineer (11-) would give the character an understanding of who' who in
the aerospace industry, what companies are in that industry, what laws
and regulations govern that industry, what an aerospace engineer does,
stress analysis, calculus, thermodynamics, chemistry, physics, aerospace
vehicles, computer programming, technical writing, aerospace structure
design, aerodynamics, fluid dynamics, propulsion methods, engine design,
rocket design ("Yes, as a matter of fact I am a rocket scientist."),
mechanics, electronics, and a whole lot more. The professional skill
doesn't give you the same knowledge of calculus that someone with SS:
Mathematics (11-) would have but you would have the level of knowledge
that would be typical of someone in that profession.
Obviously if I wanted to buy all those skills it would cost hundreds of
points. I don't have to because it is all covered in the professional
skill. I need all that stuff to practice the profession, so I get it
for 2 points. A specialist (a heart surgeon or an aerospace engineer
working in the stress analysis department) could either buy PS: Heart
Surgeon or PS: Aerospace engineer and SS: Stress Analysis.
In general this is how I've always thought of skill:
11- Most practising members of a profession
11- & KS: 11- A typical specialist
13- Your the guy other members of the profession go to when
they have a really tough problem. You are likely to also
have a complementary skill.
15- or 16- One of the top people in your field. A recognized expert.
17- or 18- Move over Newton or Mozart. Make room for me!
Using this sort of definition, we have no champions style skills at most of
what we all do every day. But that's OK because skills in champions are
supposed to reflect knowledge and abilities that are useful in a
role-playing game. a player who pays points for a skill or ability
should expect to receive some significant advantage for it.
A SKILL THAT WILL NEVER BE USED DURING THE COURSE OF PLAY SHOULD NOT COST
POINTS. It can easily be included in a character's background.
Obviously this requires some judgement on the part of the GM. If a
player has spent a lot of points in an area that I don't think will ever
be useful I would tell him not to spend the points. KS: Beavis &
Butthead (14-) will not be worth any points in any campaign I run because
as I've never seen the show.
I encourage my players to spend about 50 points in skills. As a GM I
want their characters to be hyper-competent. I want them to be top
experts in their fields. I want them to have complementary skills. I
want them to be like comic book or movie characters (Move over Buckaroo,
I'm a rock musician, brain surgeon, particle physicist, and top criminal
lawyer.) I also want them to have some quirky knowledge skills that I
can use as hooks to drag them into a scenario or make them centre of an
adventure (Good thing you know so much about baseball cards Captain
Trivia, or we never would have made it across the American lines.) But I
don't want them to spend points to detail every trivial fact of their
existence (It's OK Bob, you don't have to buy familiarity with toothbushes
to maintain good oral hygiene.) For that I have them type up
descriptions and backgrounds. That is where they put all the stuff that
isn't worth point but helps round out the character and make it seem real.
Sorry for the rant. I went on much longer than I had planned. Let me
finish
by saying that if someone is a Green Beret or SWAT team member they will
probably take between 100 and 150 points to describe in champions. They
are going to have lots of skills that will be useful in combat and other
role playing situations. But most of use can easily be simulated as
normals (5 pts.) or skilled normals (35 pts.).
I would like to hear what you think,
Mikhael
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:16:07 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Not-so-normal write-ups
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 06:27 PM 11/20/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> I'd like to see some normal write ups of you people. Yeah, you.
>I wouldn't mind if they were a bit humorous, either...
> I double dare you.
> ...OK! OK! It's my pathetic half-arsed way of wanting to get to know
>all of you better. :)
> All that is good and pure! His Psychological Limitations!
This is an interesting idea. It might even provide some GMs as a source
of "Normal" NPCs for a superhero fight taking place at a gaming convention.
It'll have to wait a while for my write-up, between the coming holiday
and work on TUSV. Still, I'll try to whip something together.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:25:09 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>> > A brick in GURPS on an equal damage ability to a normal power level
energy
>> >projector might have a lifting ability of as little as 1 to 3 tons or so.
>>
>> um, Im not sure what you are trying to say here, the bricks do as much
>> damage as energy projectors with the same power level? Exactly how does
>> this differ from every other game system?
>
> Should have been simple.
>
>A 12d6 attack Brick in champs is lifting 100 tons. That's equiv to the energy
>projector's 12d6.
> Average for most games.
>
>Average for GURPS is about 13d6.
> This gives a Brick who lifts 3,000 lbs. or 34,200 lbs. if they push it
>(extra effort).
yeah thats a term he lifted from Hero :)
>While both characters are average damage capacity for their relative game
systems,
>one has a much
>higher lifting ability than the other.
> In this case Hero comes out 4-color, and GURPS modern style.
I guess Im still stupid, Im not sure why this is more modern style, seems
like every character in Image can lift 500 tons and carries a gun, how is
this more representative? Why do you think that someone who can do that
much damage should be weaker?
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:34:04 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 09:57 PM 11/20/97 -0600, Vox Ludator! wrote:
>At 12:18 PM 11/20/97 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>> It works well for simulating density decrease, as it works out as well.
>> You lose the benefits but weigh a lot less, and get the extra KB. My
>> Vision type character used it, get really light, have someone toss you,
>> and fire up the Density increase for the big punch. Very nasty move
>> throughs that way.
>
>IMO, "density decrease" short of insubstantiality (about the only way the
>Vision ever uses this trick) is not a useful ability. After all, look
>what's left of the Shrinking Power after removing the size change element:
>all that remains is the disadvantageous portion (the extra KB). Sounds more
>like a Physical Limitation than a Power to me.
Well, there's always the reduced weight, which can be handy when trying
to cross that rickety floor.... um, I'm sure there's more.... :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:51:50 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: On the ground gliding
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 09:57 PM 11/20/97 -0600, Vox Ludator! wrote:
>At 06:00 AM 11/21/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>> If you have Gliding, only on the ground, so you hovered mere
>>inches off the floor, could you use your forward motion from, let's
>>say, running, to get you moving?
>
>Yes -- and then you stop when you switch to Gliding, because you can't fall
>1" and therefore can't maintain forward velocity. :/ That's the way it
>works -- you can't Glide at 0" off the ground.
You can if you're at the top of a hill. (Ever go tobogganing? That's
clearly Gliding, Only On Top of Snow.)
I'd also argue that another entity could provide some initial movement,
and in fact will be saying as much in TUSV. After all, this is the classic
way that gliders (you know, airplanes without motors) get their start;
they're towed by a regular airplane, and then released.
>> How would you simulate the effects of a character with Air Walking
>>(the ability to walk in air as if it were sold)?
>
>6" Flight, No Turn Mode (+1/2).
I tend to agree with you on this one, except that No Turn Mode is only a
+1/4 Advantage (the inverse of the -1/4 Turn Mode Limitation for Running).
>> What sort of powers/limitations would you use to simulate
>>Levitation?
>
>If you mean AD&D style levitation, "Flight, Only along vertical plane (-1)".
Ditto.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 10:09:45 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 11:52 AM 11/22/97 -0500, Mikhael Bornstein - AERE/W94 wrote:
>I've been following this thread closely and I think that either I
>overestimate the value of skills in champions or other people
>underestimate them. I've been playing since '84 and I think that 2
>or 3 points in a skill is a big deal. It represents a fairly significant
>level of expertise.
>
>For example, a practising lawyer would have PS: Lawyer (11-) and
>PERK: Law license. That's it. For those three point a character would
>have to spend 3 or 4 years in an undergraduate program, three years
>in law school, at year articling, and pass their bar exam. It would
>take that character 8 years to get those three points.
The lawyer should also have a KS: Law for the specialty he works in,
whether it's as broad as Civil Law or as narrow as Constitutional Appeals
Law. (Most if not all other phases of the law would get a reduced Roll for
being related.)
I'd also tend to make the PS characteristic-based, using either INT,
EGO, or PRE, depending on how the individual goes about things.
But still, I'm talking about a total of only 6 points to represent a
competent attorney (not really that much more than your 3).
>A professional engineer? PS: Mechanical Engineer (11-) and Perk:
>Engineering Licence. Those three points represent 4 years in an accredited
>engineering program, 3 years of professionally related experience, and the
>successful completion of a professional ethics exam.
Again, some KS for actually knowing the material should be included here.
>I have always interpreted this to mean that an 11- rating on a skill
>means that the character is good enough to make a living performing that
>skill. I have always interpreted familiarity (8-) with a skill to
>represent a "talented amteur". The sort of person who with a little
>seasoning and experience could become a professional. Anything less that
>that would not be worth points although a character could include it in
>their background.
>
>You sing with your church choir: No skill
>You solo for your church choir
>and perform for free at local events: FAM: PS: Singer(8-)
>You have performed professionally, would
>be asked to do so again, & got paid: PS: Singer (11-)
A musical instrument would still cost a 1 point Familiarity. To be good
at it, though, would be worth 2 points (for college-level performing, where
you generally need to be to perform at a nightclub). Studio and similar
work would require higher Rolls (these are *extremely* demanding
environments).
(As though anyone here cared....)
>A skill generally covers a lot of ground. You get a lot of stuff for
>those 2 points. Another example. PS: Aerospace
>Engineer (11-) would give the character an understanding of who' who in
>the aerospace industry, what companies are in that industry, what laws
>and regulations govern that industry, what an aerospace engineer does,
>stress analysis, calculus, thermodynamics, chemistry, physics, aerospace
>vehicles, computer programming, technical writing, aerospace structure
>design, aerodynamics, fluid dynamics, propulsion methods, engine design,
>rocket design ("Yes, as a matter of fact I am a rocket scientist."),
>mechanics, electronics, and a whole lot more. The professional skill
>doesn't give you the same knowledge of calculus that someone with SS:
>Mathematics (11-) would have but you would have the level of knowledge
>that would be typical of someone in that profession.
>
>Obviously if I wanted to buy all those skills it would cost hundreds of
>points. I don't have to because it is all covered in the professional
>skill. I need all that stuff to practice the profession, so I get it
>for 2 points. A specialist (a heart surgeon or an aerospace engineer
>working in the stress analysis department) could either buy PS: Heart
>Surgeon or PS: Aerospace engineer and SS: Stress Analysis.
I tend to agree with you on much of this. A PS gives some of the basic
knowledge and contacts needed to perform a job. However, one would still
need whatever KS or SS the job required; PS: Heart Surgeon would not give
KS: Medicine, and KS: Medicine would not give Paramedic Skill! However,
the three together (plus a License) should be sufficient for a heart surgeon.
>In general this is how I've always thought of skill:
>
>11- Most practising members of a profession
>11- & KS: 11- A typical specialist
I'd call it one KS for the first, two for the second. The rest (which I
snipped I'm in agreement on.
>Using this sort of definition, we have no champions style skills at most of
>what we all do every day. But that's OK because skills in champions are
>supposed to reflect knowledge and abilities that are useful in a
>role-playing game. a player who pays points for a skill or ability
>should expect to receive some significant advantage for it.
>
>A SKILL THAT WILL NEVER BE USED DURING THE COURSE OF PLAY SHOULD NOT COST
>POINTS. It can easily be included in a character's background.
>Obviously this requires some judgement on the part of the GM. If a
>player has spent a lot of points in an area that I don't think will ever
>be useful I would tell him not to spend the points. KS: Beavis &
>Butthead (14-) will not be worth any points in any campaign I run because
>as I've never seen the show.
For this kind of thing I include General Knowledge (8-) as an Everyman
Skill. I give bonuses for things "everyone" would know, and use straight
rolls for "cultural references" (like Beavis and Butthead). If (following
your example) the player determines that the character is a fan of a
certain TV show, this gives a bonus for that show, but a penalty for any
other show, especially one that was unrelated and dissimilar.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Nov 97 18:24:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Filipino Heroes/Vill
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > > You've got me dead backwards there. Many people are offended by
h > > the use of thier culture by those (especially whites) not of
h > > that culture. Witness the powwow thread that blazed though
h > > this list not long ago.
h >
h > I'm actually a little puzzled by this. In the gaming sense, when
h > GMing I stick with what I know as a GM. If I HAVE to run a game in a p
Well, I was speaking in a gaming sense, still.
h > someone else knows more about than me, I'll usually ask they correct
h > me
h > if I have something wrong. But when I have lived or traveled
h > in other countries I've found I get a far more friendly reaction from
h > people if I make an attempt to learn the language and fit in.
h >
h > TokyoMark
Sounds reasonable to me.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Sender: scm@mail.aci.net
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 10:24:36 -0800
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <shelley@mactyre.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 11:21 PM 11/21/97 -0800, Rook wrote:
> Personally, when I run a SUPER game I think it's anal to aks for
degree perks or
>prerequisite
>skills on my sciences. That's just not how the genre works. It isn't that
'precise'.
>I jot down
>PS: Scientist 12- and I'm done.
> If I want more, I'll do it in a system set up for it. A system with a
very
>diferent cost between
>powers and skills, or with a dificulty and prerequisite system built in.
Well, as one of the "anal" people who requires her players to spend points
for the things that will help them out in roleplaying situations, I've
found that skill requirements only add to roleplaying. Besides, I value
realism in all things, roleplaying especially -- I can't stand games or
novels where we have "*Poof* I invent it!" and "*Poof* you're cured!"
Seems to be more laziness on the author or GM's part than anything else.
Of course, I prefer "genre" comics which are grittier and more realistic,
too, so perhaps that's part of my conception. Not everything superhero is
Golden Age anymore.
I like to run games which have a firm "realistic" feel to them, whatever
the genre, and skills are an inherent part of that. When I start hearing
complaints from my players I'll rethink my position -- their opinions,
after all, are really the only ones which matter, all due respect for list
members aside. =)
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
www.mactyre.net
Your children will see the stars.
--Robert A. Heinlein
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Nov 97 18:30:04 GMT
Subject: Missiles (was TUSV: vehi
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
h > Subject: Missiles (was TUSV: vehicles within vehicles)
h > Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
h > To: champ-l@omg.org
h > >
h > > Tenacious +1/2 <NEW>
h > >
h > > Seeking +1 <NEW>
h > >
h > > -Opal
h > > Have Variants, will email.
h >
h > Very nice!!! An interesting variation on the continueing charges or
h > uncontrolled continueos modifiers. Was this more or less of the cuff
h > or do you in fact have several more like these?
h > --
Thank you. Definitely not off the cuff. I came up with Tenacious in
1986. It's actually based Area Effect, the idea was that ultimately,
it just makes a hit much more likely, which is what AE does. It's
been updated to 4th Ed since then. Seeking, one of my players roughed
out for a character, and I later used it in my Robot Warriors game,
and I ultimately, updated it to 4th Ed.
I have a whole file of rules variants that I like to use. An old version
of it is on Red October http://www.october.com/ in the Red October file
areas: VARIANTS.ZIP. I'm trying to get my most recent version U/Ld but
it's not there yet.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 13:47:53 -0500 (EST)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net (Unverified)
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>For example, a practising lawyer would have PS: Lawyer (11-) and
>PERK: Law license. That's it. For those three point a character would
>A professional engineer? PS: Mechanical Engineer (11-) and Perk:
>Engineering Licence.
Hardly. Somebody graduating from any Engineering course wouldn't even have
PS: Engineer. He'd have SS: (type of) Engineering 11-, and SS: Mathematics
8-, SS: Physics 8-, and possibly SS: Chemistry 8- (depending on the branch
of engineering). Being a practicing engineer is a LOT different from just
knowing the science behind it. PS: Engineering involves the actual legal
procedures, protocols, and hands-on experience in the workplace. All the
technical knowledge is really covered by the Science branch of engineering.
It even says in the PS writeup that PS represent practical, not theoretical
knowledge. Somebody wet'n'bloody out of university typically has very little
practical knowledge.
The same goes for a Lawyer. A graduate might have PS: Lawyer 8-, but he'd
probably have KS: Law 11-, PS: Research 8-, Oratory 8-. The 'professional'
aspect of a skill more represents (to my mind at least) the ability to use
your other skills to make money. Someone with a high PS: Lawyer would have a
very good reputation, be able to charge hefty fees, and likely be a partner
in a major firm. Someone with a low PS: Lawyer could still have massive
legal knowledge (KS: Law) but never gets the good cases, or doesn't bring
them off to proper execution (i.e. his courtroom manner needs work).
This attitude that a PS: is all encompassing is a little odd. If a guy has
PS: Truck Driver, he still needs his Transport Familiarity with big rigs.
The PS: helps him find the best routes (shortest, least obstructed), and
helps him follow (or get around) trucking laws, but it doesn't help him
drive (that would be TF: or Combat Driving if he's REAL good), and it
doesn't help him maintain his rig beyond the most basic of things - for that
he'd need Mechanics (and every truck driver I ever met was at least a
halfway decent mechanic - i.e. I'd say they had 8- with Mechanics. A real
auto mechanic would have both Mechanics and PS: Auto Mechanic (and probably
FAM w/ Electronics, too).
>You sing with your church choir: No skill
Depends how good your choir is. Some church choirs generate revenue. If
you've been with the choir a while and are good as a choir singer, I see no
problem with giving PS: Choir Singer 8-, or even higher.
>A skill generally covers a lot of ground. You get a lot of stuff for
>those 2 points. Another example. PS: Aerospace
>Engineer (11-) would give the character an understanding of who' who in
>the aerospace industry, what companies are in that industry, what laws
>and regulations govern that industry, what an aerospace engineer does,
>stress analysis, calculus, thermodynamics, chemistry, physics, aerospace
>vehicles, computer programming, technical writing, aerospace structure
>design, aerodynamics, fluid dynamics, propulsion methods, engine design,
>rocket design ("Yes, as a matter of fact I am a rocket scientist."),
>mechanics, electronics, and a whole lot more. The professional skill
>doesn't give you the same knowledge of calculus that someone with SS:
>Mathematics (11-) would have but you would have the level of knowledge
>that would be typical of someone in that profession.
Note that someone who was a _Mathematician_ would have SS: Mathematics 11-
(or more) AND PS: Mathematician. Someone in Aerospace Engineering has PS:
Aerospace Engineer 11-, SS: Aerospace Engineering 11-, SS: Mathematics 8-,
SS: Physics 8-, SS: Mechanical Engineering 8-, Electrical Engineering 8-,
Computer Programming 8-, and a handful of other skills. Note that this
doesn't make him a 'qualified' general Mech.Eng., or Elec.Eng., or Computer
Programmer, but he would have a background in said skills and be able to
perform minor tasks in those areas, even if they are NOT related to the
aerospace industry.
>Obviously if I wanted to buy all those skills it would cost hundreds of
>points. I don't have to because it is all covered in the professional
>skill.
I don't agree. Champions, by the book, grossly underestimates the skill
requirements of a Doctor. Having Paramedic, KS: Medicine and Licensed Doctor
is NOT enough. My brother's a doctor, and I know what he went through and
what he learned to get there. In Canada at least, you have to have at least
3 years of undergraduate work in a related science. My brother got a degree
in Biochemistry. That alone would give him SS: Biochemistry 11- and probably
SS: Chemistry 8- (if not more) and SS: Mathematics 8-. [BTW, you yourself
call a FAM as a 'good hobbyist' - well, you've got to be more than a
'hobbyist' at math to get a degree in most sciences]. Then he started
medschool. First year alone would have given him KS: Anatomy 11-. He already
had Paramedic 8- (St.John's training) before he hit university. Over the
next few years, he gets KS: Medicine, improves his paramedic, gains basic
surgical skills (PS: Surgery 8-, which certainly goes beyond Paramedic), and
goodness knows what other skills, like SS: Pathology 8-, KS: Pharmacuticals,
and more. And, finally, of course, PS: Doctor and his license. Anybody who
thinks Paramedic and KS: Medicine is enough to get a license has no clue
just what a doctor has to learn.
Champions just tends to abstract in the name of playability. That doesn't
make it _accurate_, just easier. People writing themselves up want to be
accurate, and that costs points.
>A SKILL THAT WILL NEVER BE USED DURING THE COURSE OF PLAY SHOULD NOT COST
>POINTS.
How does this apply to people writing themselves up? Some people do and
would rate KS: Beavis and Butthead. And you can never tell what is or isn't
going to be 'relevant' in a campaign. Most people don't have more than a
handful of hobbies. Some people, however, have had multiple professions,
many hobbies, and lots of other interests. They do rate those skills, b/c
they've invested major time in them.
>existence (It's OK Bob, you don't have to buy familiarity with toothbushes
>to maintain good oral hygiene.)
That's a bit rediculous. But if he collected and/or designed toothbrushes in
his spare time, he certainly should buy KS: Toothbrushes or something. But
few super-types actually have those kind of 'lesser' hobbies. They don't
have the time for them. When was the last time you saw Spiderman display his
great knowledge of current TV programming? Right - Spidey doesn't have the
time to watch much TV.
>Sorry for the rant. I went on much longer than I had planned. Let me
>finish
>by saying that if someone is a Green Beret or SWAT team member they will
>probably take between 100 and 150 points to describe in champions. They
>are going to have lots of skills that will be useful in combat and other
>role playing situations. But most of use can easily be simulated as
>normals (5 pts.) or skilled normals (35 pts.).
Bottom line is that's because they probably KNOW, by direct knowledge, or
serious observation/study, just what a Green Beret/SWAT member has to know.
As opposed to the GM who just wants faceless SWAT members for the villians
to mow down before meeting the super-PCs, who doesn't have the time or need
to find out exactly what they really DO have. He just puts down PS: SWAT
member, gives him a gun, and goes. Good for playability, but not at all
accurate.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"By all that's unholy, the Enigma Force has given Captain Universe the power
to back up his sickening platitudes!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Nov 97 18:53:06 GMT
Subject: Re: fantasy hero campaig
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
h >
h > > Defenses on the other hand should be *low* and kept that way. Don't
h > > let wizards have force fields. Keep the armor you design relatively
h > > low-def (6 is reasonable, 8 DEF plate should be really encumbering,
h >
h > DEF 6 represent 'average' mail armor, what virtually *everyone* who
h > afford it wore during most of the middle ages. The thickest (or
h > heaviest armor) is full plate, which is DEF 8 (or *maybe* 9). Full pla
h > *isn't* all that encumbering. A well made suit fits just was well as a
h >
Oh yes, I know that. (I started playing D&D 17 years ago, I have
heard that from SCA'ers sooooo many times!) And, I'm sorry I didn't
mention that I was speaking from a sort of heroic fantasy (where
you don't want everyone armored up from head to toe, it's just
not that dashing - unless you're going for the sort of fairy
tale knight-in-shining-armour routine (or you really liked the
move Excalibur) in which case you wouldn't want armor to be
encumbering at all) and game-balance perspective. I want players
to have a good reason to choose among the different types of
armor, not just the usual get the highest DEF and buy 'manuevering
in armor' DCV levels to cancel the penalty thing. I understand
that its unrealistic, but I guess I just don't like realism all
that much (or I'd be playing GURPS by Steve 'reality check' Jackson).
h > Note that Force Walls stop all Stun, which makes them much more
h > effective
h > than standard Armor. Force Fields might work better for certain spell
h > effects.
If you're trying to keep DEF low, it's conventient to use FW instead
of FF. FF is very cheap and it can be hard to explain to the character
why he can't have a 5 pt spell to defend himslef. FW keep the costs
(Apts, anyway), more in line, and when DEF is kept low, will be penetrated
much more often. Also they're less convenient the FF - they limit what
you can do when hiding behind them.
For instance, if I set a max resistant DEF of 10, some of the warriors
will go to the trouble of buying Independent magickal armor with that
def, some will take Plate, inspite of the small standard Encumbrance
penalty, and some will prefer slightly lighter armor. But, all the
wizards will buy a 10 DEF Force Field because it is sooo cheap - and
all the powergamers will have 10/10 FF with 0 END & Persistant with
lengthy start-up rituals (for a high limitation) and Dificult to
Dispel.
Of course, that's just my experience, I know some people have players
with more restraint. (heck, I don't have that much restraint, I
like playing wizards, I want my wizard character to live!) :) :)
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Nov 97 19:05:08 GMT
Subject: Possession type question
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > From: "Sean Pavlish" <pavlish@erols.com>
h > Subject: Possession type question
h >
h > I'd like some feedback from you all on the list about a creature I'm
h > attempting to write up for Fantasy Hero.
h >
h > The creature in itself has Desolid and Invisibility with no fringe. I
h > this part down, no problems here.
h >
h > The problem comes from the creatures ability to jump into a dead
h > corpse and use that corpse to affect the real world.
h >
*WARNING: do not use the Spirit Rules!*
(OK, personal bias taken care of)
What you can do is have the creatures Desol and Invis 0 END & Persistant,
and instead of taking 'always on' have them only turned off when there
is a handy body to 'inhabit.' Give the creature stats appropriate for
a dead body. If you think bodies vary greatly in there stats, give
him those of a really useful body, with a Physical Limitation that
he only has those of an availble dead body when solid.
The drawback to this is that the creature could be killed if the
body its inhabiting is destroyed. Just give it lots of BOD and
have it go desolid again before that happens (or you may want it
to have a way it can be killed while manifested - fire perhaps?
magic?).
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Nov 97 19:30:10 GMT
Subject: Campaign-wide Average PC
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > I long ago got disgusted by how much you couldn't buy with the
h > 250 points (background skills, perks, etc). To design an average
h > professional person in america today takes anywhere from 150-175
h > points.
h >
You're going into way too much detail in the skills/perks if it takes
150+pts to buy normals. I'd find broader background skills, and
basic 1 pt familiarities instead of full skills helps. Aside from
that, though, as long as everyone is aware of it, fine. People who
just wander into such games get confused. You buy your 14- Sci:
Physics, and Systems Ops, and find out you can't run an experiment
because you don't have KS: Scientific Method, Prof: Particle
Excelerator Operator, Sci: Data Analysis, and Perk: Liscensed
Particle Excellerator. (Oh, and Sci: Particle Physics, Quantum
Physcis.... list goes on for a few pages...). I'm just guessing
because I know nothing about the subject. But I have run into
situations where perfectly reasonable characters were penalized
for not taking very nit-picky Sciences or KS, it just doesn't seem
to me that it's the point of the game.
h > These days our characters are built as people first, with all the
h > experiences & background stuff you want to fit your conception. It's
h > free. You can then spend up to 250 points on combat/adventuring stuff.
h > If your background is used heavily in your adventuring, then you have t
h > pay for half of it.
h > | David A. Fair
I can't fault you for handling it that way. Though at that point,
I'd say the other option is to drop background skills entirely and
just go back to defining your background, since there's no points
involved.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Nov 97 19:48:12 GMT
Subject: Re: Nested Force Walls
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h >
h > Actually, he already has it in a multipower on two multi slots.
h >
h > He's a magnetic character, and he wants to be able to tune the force
h > to screen out specific things -- it can either screen out matter,
h > or both. The problem with 1 regular FW slot is that the defense isn't
h > variable -- he couldn't "fine tune" it.
h >
Ohhhh.... <going back to delete my original response>
Sure, it's OK to throw them both at once. As long as it's at
exactly the same area.
Just don't let him buy them too high. If you'd normally allow no
more than a 12 DEF force wall, limit each of his to 12/0.
Oh, and you might have to gloss over the area of the force wall,
if you feel that having half your multi points in FW means you
can only affect a smaller area....
The bit about attack rolls is a rules detail, it's not clear
wether you can combine two powers that aren't linked. However
you feel about this, you, as the GM, can make an exception
in this one specific case.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Nov 97 19:51:14 GMT
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > From: mcallahan <mcallahan@home.com>
h >
h > >>1 pip HKA reduced penetration (bite)
h > >What would this *do*, anyway? 1/2 pip of damage x2, applied against
h > >Resistant Defenses... it works *exactly* like the same power w/o
h > Reduced Penetration. It's still completely stopped by 1 rPD. I migh
h >
h > It seems to be the opinion of the hero beastiary that all bites are
h > reduced pen even 1 pip ones (I agree it's odd, but hey, it saves you a
Ummm... I gues if the critter has a STR of 5, that adds to the KA,
and it's two 1 pip KAs against PDr....
Otherwise, I guess that's why they have minimum costs.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:58:57 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> >> > A brick in GURPS on an equal damage ability to a normal power level
> energy
> >> >projector might have a lifting ability of as little as 1 to 3 tons or so.
> >>
> >> um, Im not sure what you are trying to say here, the bricks do as much
> >> damage as energy projectors with the same power level? Exactly how does
> >> this differ from every other game system?
> >
> > Should have been simple.
> >
> >A 12d6 attack Brick in champs is lifting 100 tons. That's equiv to the energy
> >projector's 12d6.
> > Average for most games.
> >
> >Average for GURPS is about 13d6.
> > This gives a Brick who lifts 3,000 lbs. or 34,200 lbs. if they push it
> >(extra effort).
>
> yeah thats a term he lifted from Hero :)
>
> >While both characters are average damage capacity for their relative game
> systems,
> >one has a much
> >higher lifting ability than the other.
> > In this case Hero comes out 4-color, and GURPS modern style.
>
> I guess Im still stupid, Im not sure why this is more modern style, seems
> like every character in Image can lift 500 tons and carries a gun, how is
> this more representative?
It is a reflection of the modern comics theme, which likes less
powerfullHeroes who are more vulnerable to the real world and forced to stay
closer to
real world physics.
It's best an example of "Wildcards", but I think it would hold for several
Image characters
as well, though not all.
Personally, I prefer a Silver Age 4-color feel, so I use Hero or V&V,
depending on preference of
the day. (V&V is ussually lower power than champs, but not always.)
> Why do you think that someone who can do that
> much damage should be weaker?
>
I don't recall saying that, could you please provide an exact quote of where I
said that exact statement?
If you're just disagreeing with me in order to disagree, then I may withdraw
from this. But if you can
quote where you feel I've stated that I agree with GURPS' outlook, then please do
so. I merely presented
their outlook. I believe it would be better suited for someone who wanted Heroes
who were 'closer to
reality'.
Don't confuse my examples with my preferences and opinions.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:06:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
In a message dated 11/22/97 12:24:13 PM, DaveM@FocusSoft.com wrote:
>Here's a toned-down 250-point Juggernaut I've used in the past.
>Juggernaut
>60 STR 50
>11 DEX 3
This wouldn't be the same Juggernaut that held off all the X-Men
and at other times the Avengers?!?
You better post those "toned down 250 point" versions of Wolverine,
Thor, Cpt.America, etc that must've fought this guy.
--
Elliott
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:06:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
In a message dated 11/22/97 8:19:49 AM, mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net wrote:
>I can see both sides of the coin, I wrote up my self using a true Hero
>sourcebook aproach, I was very expensive, over 200 points, most of those on
>my military training, Army Ranger school, Airborne, Air Assault, Sniper
>school, a ton of other military schools plus I was also a EMT. I have my
>doubts about some of those CHAR requiriments, I don't think I have a 18+
>STR, a reguirement for Ranger school.
It's not an unrealistic number. I wrote up Frank Farmer, the ultimate
bodyguard from the Whitney Houston, Kevin Costner movie, "THE BODYGUARD".
I stuck to normal stat levels, and only wrote what he demonstrated competency
with during the movie, and he went over 325 points...
--
Elliott
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Nov 97 20:17:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Possession type ques
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
h >
h > Thus, Gliding only allows one to stay off of the ground, though
h > forward motion is of course severely hampered by lack of descent.
h >
You know, I finally noticed a problem with this one (it's been how
many years?)
"The shoa-lin priest can walk on rice paper without leaving a mark,
but not uphill unless there are thermals." :)
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 12:18:35 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
CC: hero-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre wrote:
> At 11:21 PM 11/21/97 -0800, Rook wrote:
> > Personally, when I run a SUPER game I think it's anal to aks for
> degree perks or prerequisite skills on my sciences. That's just not how
> the genre works. It isn't that 'precise'.
> >I jot down
> >PS: Scientist 12- and I'm done.
> > If I want more, I'll do it in a system set up for it. A system with a
> very diferent cost between
> >powers and skills, or with a dificulty and prerequisite system built in.
>
> Well, as one of the "anal" people who requires her players to spend points
> for the things that will help them out in roleplaying situations, I've
> found that skill requirements only add to roleplaying. Besides, I value
> realism in all things, roleplaying especially -- I can't stand games or
> novels where we have "*Poof* I invent it!" and "*Poof* you're cured!"
> Seems to be more laziness on the author or GM's part than anything else.
It's not that I don't require the skill, it's that I don't feel it needs
to be broken downinto it's component parts. My Super World's don't make any
attempt to rationalize the
existance of super powers. There is no mutant gene, mathematical formula to
magic, or scematic
to a super-gadget. It just is. Reality is warped.
A Super scientist has a PS in 'Super Science' not in physics or genetics
or whatever.
But I'm not golden age either. I love to go into depth on personality
and moral issues.
Astro City says it best: It's not the real world with supers added in.
It's a Super World with real
people added in.
They have lives, emotions, and depth. But they work on a diferent
paradigm. What parts are fuzzy and
what parts are detailed are a bit diferent.
Anyway, that's my take. Comic's like Watchmen or Wild Cards or Punisher
have proved that there are
other valid views to take. Just they're not the one's I use.
> Of course, I prefer "genre" comics which are grittier and more realistic,
> too, so perhaps that's part of my conception. Not everything superhero is
> Golden Age anymore.
>
I for one stopped reading comics around 1990 for this exact reason. When
Iread about something as unreal as Super Heroes, I want it to be 'comicy'.
I've started
reading again now that we have titles like Astro City.
> I like to run games which have a firm "realistic" feel to them, whatever
> the genre, and skills are an inherent part of that.
I like to run my games with a diferent flavor for each genre I choose.If I
did 'hard-core' sci fi I'd obviously require much more depth to these issues
than if I did Super Hero. I run my Super Hero with a 4-color Silver Age feel.
The best
genre example I can give of what I shoot for is Astro City or ThunderBolts.
When I do 'dark'
it comes out like Batman: Animated Series.
I don't do Watchmen or Wildcards.
Shelley I know you've often stated on #herochat or #gurps that you use GURPS
for all but Super Hero.
Considering the flavor I think you're going for above, you might want to give
GURPS Supers a serious
try. It can be made into a runable game with a little work. :) I've done it
before, and the GURPS lists
are any indication, so have others.
Personally I can't stand it. I play Super's for it's un-realism. Which is
why my copy of Dark Champions
has done nothing but collect dust since I bought it...
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Nov 97 20:21:04 GMT
Subject: On the ground gliding
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
h >
h > If you have Gliding, only on the ground, so you hovered mere
h > inches off the floor, could you use your forward motion from, let's
h > say, running, to get you moving?
h >
Sure. But, going uphill would be hard.
h > How would you simulate the effects of a character with Air Walking
h > (the ability to walk in air as if it were sold)?
Flight, to exactly the same inches as your running (including non
combat), and an advantage for no turn mode (if you don't have
too much running, a few levels hould take care of it).
h > What sort of powers/limitations would you use to simulate
h > Levitation?
Flight, heavily limited for Levitating yourself. For levitating
objects & other people, TK.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 22 Nov 97 20:29:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Possession type ques
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!opal
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
h > From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
h > At 09:15 PM 11/20/97 -0600, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
h > >> I knew this was going to come up again. :-)
h > >
h > > What!? The list has *seen* this discussion before?!?
h >
h > I think he was referring to the "first sentence principle" which was
h > threaded somewhere into my posts.
h >
I don't like stuff like 'first sentence' or 'highest cost' or whatever.
Next we'll be using Gematria (sp?) to analyze the BBB and prove
mathmatically that Growth & DI are the same power and Shrinking is
the oposite of Growth and therefore is already Density Decrease... :)
Hero is effects based, if you can get just the effect you want,
who cares what power you used to get it.
h > > And on the same token, the entire set of effects of each and every
h > >power is the effect of the power. As limitations allow a power to
h > >effect (it does less, therefor it is less usefull), a power could
h > >conceivably be pared down to merely one of its effects.
h >
h > ... at which point one will realize there is a better way of executing
h > that
h > effect.
h > --
Actually, I've found that paring away at a power to simulate a difficult
effect almost always works better than heaping Advantages on some
other power with a 'closer effect.' For one thing, "Limitted Power"
gives you a lot of leeway, and there's no corresponding advantage
that allows you that kind of flexibility.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:40:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Mikhael Bornstein - AERE/W94 <mbornste@acs.ryerson.ca>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sat, 22 Nov 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> The lawyer should also have a KS: Law for the specialty he works in,
> whether it's as broad as Civil Law or as narrow as Constitutional Appeals
> Law. (Most if not all other phases of the law would get a reduced Roll for
> being related.)
> I'd also tend to make the PS characteristic-based, using either INT,
> EGO, or PRE, depending on how the individual goes about things.
> But still, I'm talking about a total of only 6 points to represent a
> competent attorney (not really that much more than your 3).
Good point. I probably over stated my point. All my players create
characters who are experts in their fields. PS (14-) and several KS
are the norm. If a player just wanted the PS I would probably let it go.
> A musical instrument would still cost a 1 point Familiarity. To be good
> at it, though, would be worth 2 points (for college-level performing, where
> you generally need to be to perform at a nightclub). Studio and similar
> work would require higher Rolls (these are *extremely* demanding
> environments).
> (As though anyone here cared....)
I have a friend who is a professional singer. She has performed in many
clubs and recorded in the studio. So I tend to be a little bit of a snob
about these things. I'm not sure that she'd agree that the studio is
more demanding
> I tend to agree with you on much of this. A PS gives some of the basic
> knowledge and contacts needed to perform a job. However, one would still
> need whatever KS or SS the job required; PS: Heart Surgeon would not give
> KS: Medicine, and KS: Medicine would not give Paramedic Skill! However,
> the three together (plus a License) should be sufficient for a heart surgeon.
I know two paramedics and neither of them have good things to say
about most doctors skill at emergency medicine. I'm not sure I'd require
a character who was a doctor to buy paramedic skill, but I've never had a
player who created a doctor without it.
> For this kind of thing I include General Knowledge (8-) as an Everyman
> Skill. I give bonuses for things "everyone" would know, and use straight
> rolls for "cultural references" (like Beavis and Butthead). If (following
> your example) the player determines that the character is a fan of a
> certain TV show, this gives a bonus for that show, but a penalty for any
> other show, especially one that was unrelated and dissimilar.
I use an INT roll at -3 for general knowlege/current events. But if a
character had "Beavis and Buttheads biggest fan" in their background I
probably wouldn't make them roll.
Thanks for the feedback.
Mikhael
From: "potroast@theoven" <darkwraith@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: empathy
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 14:44:53 -0600
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Hi,
I'm designing a empathy-based character, I'm haveing a little promblem
hammering out two disads: "leaking"- projecting the character's emotions on
normals (and on a really good roll, supers) around her. Also "imprinting"-
having the surrounding her become her own. your help would greatly be
appeciated.
--Potroast
"Anyone who says "like taking candy from a baby" has, obviously, never
tried it"
X-Sender: scm@mail.aci.net
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 12:52:03 -0800
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <shelley@mactyre.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 12:18 PM 11/22/97 -0800, Rook wrote:
> I for one stopped reading comics around 1990 for this exact reason. When
>Iread about something as unreal as Super Heroes, I want it to be 'comicy'.
>I've started
>reading again now that we have titles like Astro City.
Oh, I don't know. I take the majority of my inspiration from comics like
the early Elementals. They had dark themes, but were real people acting
heroically. Real people are, for me, the key, which is why I find skills
so gosh-darn important to characterization.
>Shelley I know you've often stated on #herochat or #gurps that you use GURPS
>for all but Super Hero.
>Considering the flavor I think you're going for above, you might want to give
>GURPS Supers a serious
>try. It can be made into a runable game with a little work. :) I've done it
>before, and the GURPS lists
>are any indication, so have others.
I own every published edition of GURPS Supers, as a matter of fact. As
soon as I feel that it simulates superheroes as well as Champions, I *will*
likely switch, primarily for the reason that Steve Jackson Games is a
viable company which supports its products.
> Personally I can't stand it. I play Super's for it's un-realism. Which is
>why my copy of Dark Champions
>has done nothing but collect dust since I bought it...
Actually, I find Dark Champions to be anything *but* realistic! I mean, we
have all the technology available in our universe to have vigilantism on
the order of DC, but do we? No, of course not. Realism in the superhero
genre to me means that there are valid physical explanation of phenomena,
there is internal consistency within the universe related to that
phenomena, and people and organizations are also consistent. There's
PRIMUS, for example (http://www.mactyre.net/scm/primus.html). I get mail
all the time thanking me for making them more real-world. That's not
Watchmen-esque, that's just paying attention to detail, and rationally
considering what constitutes a federal agency's involvement in a world with
superpowers.
I think everything superhero can and ought to be quantified, since science
is what it is, and there are always grad students needing thesis topics.
Example: look at "Ghostbusters." The film took the supernatural genre --
one of the most difficult to explain -- and distilled it down to jargon.
The superhero game I *really* want to run will be the one which takes place
in the Ghostbusters universe, about fifteen years after the events in the
film allowed for strong paranormal abilities to exist. Ah, if I only had
more time!
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
www.mactyre.net
Your children will see the stars.
--Robert A. Heinlein
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:19:47 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> >Why? Just give them the extra strength, it isn't like 15-18d6 is actually all
> >that much damage, and it usually better matches their ability to do damage to
> >the scenery as well.
> >
>
> well, how about tk instead? it's not like you can lift a jumbo jet with your hands without tearing it apart anyway. .
Then why could TK do it?
If you want to bring in that type of real-world debate, the whole
argument falls apart. I mean, geez, no one could ever lift anywhere close
to one ton in the real world.
Of course, in the comics, characters lift Jumbo Jets and we don't
see the real world effect of a piece or two ripped off. Go with the
source.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:21:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 1
On Sat, 22 Nov 1997 Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 11/22/97 8:19:49 AM, mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net wrote:
> >I can see both sides of the coin, I wrote up my self using a true Hero
> >sourcebook aproach, I was very expensive, over 200 points, most of those on
> >my military training, Army Ranger school, Airborne, Air Assault, Sniper
> >school, a ton of other military schools plus I was also a EMT. I have my
> >doubts about some of those CHAR requiriments, I don't think I have a 18+
> >STR, a reguirement for Ranger school.
>
> It's not an unrealistic number. I wrote up Frank Farmer, the ultimate
> bodyguard from the Whitney Houston, Kevin Costner movie, "THE BODYGUARD".
> I stuck to normal stat levels, and only wrote what he demonstrated competency
> with during the movie, and he went over 325 points...
Most of which was paid for by the 100 point Physical Limitation of "Must
hang around Whiteny Houston and listen to her crappy singing".
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:31:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: fantasy hero campaig
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 2
On 22 Nov 1997, Opal wrote:
> h > From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
> h > DEF 6 represent 'average' mail armor, what virtually *everyone* who
> h > afford it wore during most of the middle ages. The thickest (or
> h > heaviest armor) is full plate, which is DEF 8 (or *maybe* 9). Full pla
> h > *isn't* all that encumbering. A well made suit fits just was well as a
> h >
>
> Oh yes, I know that. (I started playing D&D 17 years ago, I have
> heard that from SCA'ers sooooo many times!) And, I'm sorry I didn't
> mention that I was speaking from a sort of heroic fantasy (where
> you don't want everyone armored up from head to toe, it's just
> not that dashing - unless you're going for the sort of fairy
> tale knight-in-shining-armour routine (or you really liked the
> move Excalibur) in which case you wouldn't want armor to be
> encumbering at all) and game-balance perspective. I want players
> to have a good reason to choose among the different types of
> armor, not just the usual get the highest DEF and buy 'manuevering
> in armor' DCV levels to cancel the penalty thing. I understand
> that its unrealistic, but I guess I just don't like realism all
> that much (or I'd be playing GURPS by Steve 'reality check' Jackson).
In the FH PBEM game I am in, the GM doesn't restrain the PCs from using
any armor they want, he just makes sure that whatever they use makes sense
for the origin. So, the dwarf warrior wears mail, as does the elven
warrior and the human warrior mage. The half-elf fencer wears heavy
leather, and a couple of wizard types don't wear any armor. The only one
in heavy transitional plate is my paladin.
Unless you're playing with a bunch of munchkins who care more about CV
and DEF than conception, tinkering with the numbers in order to force
the PCs to take accetable (to the GM) stinks. The GM should make sure the
PCs are going by character concept and world background, not taking
whatever gives them the most plusses.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:36:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 3
Around here, we usually consider an 8- to mean that one has a reasonable
amount of practical knowledge in the skill.
An 11- is enough to hold a steady job, and means the character usually
knows the answers to most questions.
A 14- (or most CHA based rolls) means you are *very* good, and can perform
quite well under stressful situtations and not screw up.
The PS: usually covers most one needs to know, while additional KS and SS
skills help round the character out. Most of the area GMs don't require
that much detail in the character sheet. Usually, we prefer to list
skills that will actually affect gameplay.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From: Legionair@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 18:14:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Marvel Conversions: Doctor Doom
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 4
In a message dated 97-11-21 20:15:10 EST, RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu writes:
<< Anyone here have the stats for Doctor Doom converted from
Marvel into Champions? >>
Why not just use the stats for Dr. Destroyer with a small magic pool?
Jason
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:21:38 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 8
At 03:40 PM 11/22/97 -0500, Mikhael Bornstein - AERE/W94 wrote:
>On Sat, 22 Nov 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> The lawyer should also have a KS: Law for the specialty he works in,
>> whether it's as broad as Civil Law or as narrow as Constitutional Appeals
>> Law. (Most if not all other phases of the law would get a reduced Roll for
>> being related.)
>> I'd also tend to make the PS characteristic-based, using either INT,
>> EGO, or PRE, depending on how the individual goes about things.
>> But still, I'm talking about a total of only 6 points to represent a
>> competent attorney (not really that much more than your 3).
>
>Good point. I probably over stated my point. All my players create
>characters who are experts in their fields. PS (14-) and several KS
>are the norm. If a player just wanted the PS I would probably let it go.
I strongly recommend that you require an appropriate KS, SS, or other
Skill, at least for technical and professional jobs.
>> A musical instrument would still cost a 1 point Familiarity. To be good
>> at it, though, would be worth 2 points (for college-level performing, where
>> you generally need to be to perform at a nightclub). Studio and similar
>> work would require higher Rolls (these are *extremely* demanding
>> environments).
>> (As though anyone here cared....)
>
>I have a friend who is a professional singer. She has performed in many
>clubs and recorded in the studio. So I tend to be a little bit of a snob
>about these things. I'm not sure that she'd agree that the studio is
>more demanding
That's a different point for singers vs instrumentalists. My musical
background is in the latter category (two points in sax, one each in flute
& bassoon, by the standards I've set above), and I've done some singing as
well (not sure where I'd fall in on that; probably one point, maybe two).
I could probably get by doing studio work as a singer, but I wouldn't last
ten minutes as a studio sax man.
>> I tend to agree with you on much of this. A PS gives some of the basic
>> knowledge and contacts needed to perform a job. However, one would still
>> need whatever KS or SS the job required; PS: Heart Surgeon would not give
>> KS: Medicine, and KS: Medicine would not give Paramedic Skill! However,
>> the three together (plus a License) should be sufficient for a heart
surgeon.
>
>I know two paramedics and neither of them have good things to say
>about most doctors skill at emergency medicine. I'm not sure I'd require
>a character who was a doctor to buy paramedic skill, but I've never had a
>player who created a doctor without it.
Which, of course, supports what I was saying; I suspect that we're
closer to agreement on this particular point than most would realize.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 18:23:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Mikhael Bornstein - AERE/W94 <mbornste@acs.ryerson.ca>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 6
On Sat, 22 Nov 1997, John and Ron Prins wrote:
> Hardly. Somebody graduating from any Engineering course wouldn't even have
> PS: Engineer. He'd have SS: (type of) Engineering 11-, and SS: Mathematics
> 8-, SS: Physics 8-, and possibly SS: Chemistry 8- (depending on the branch
> of engineering). Being a practicing engineer is a LOT different from just
> knowing the science behind it. PS: Engineering involves the actual legal
> procedures, protocols, and hands-on experience in the workplace. All the
> technical knowledge is really covered by the Science branch of engineering.
> It even says in the PS writeup that PS represent practical, not theoretical
> knowledge. Somebody wet'n'bloody out of university typically has very little
> practical knowledge.
The example I gave was for someone who was a licensed professional
engineer. This person, in Ontario, would have a minimum of three years of
professional experience. I agree that someone who just graduated from
university with an "A" might have SS: (11-). I suspect that for a "B"
or "C" student an 8- might be more accurate. I agree that a practising
engineer would probably have SS: Engineering (11-). However, that SS
would also cover what a typical engineer would know about mathematics,
physics , and chemistry. Remember that to get PS: mechanical engineer
(11-) and SS: mechanical engineer (11-) and PERK: engineering license would
take seven years of relevant education and work experience. That's seven
year for 5 points! those points cover a lot of ground.
> The same goes for a Lawyer. A graduate might have PS: Lawyer 8-, but he'd
> probably have KS: Law 11-, PS: Research 8-, Oratory 8-. The 'professional'
> aspect of a skill more represents (to my mind at least) the ability to use
> your other skills to make money. Someone with a high PS: Lawyer would have a
> very good reputation, be able to charge hefty fees, and likely be a partner
> in a major firm. Someone with a low PS: Lawyer could still have massive
> legal knowledge (KS: Law) but never gets the good cases, or doesn't bring
> them off to proper execution (i.e. his courtroom manner needs work).
> This attitude that a PS: is all encompassing is a little odd. If a guy has
> PS: Truck Driver, he still needs his Transport Familiarity with big rigs.
> The PS: helps him find the best routes (shortest, least obstructed), and
> helps him follow (or get around) trucking laws, but it doesn't help him
> drive (that would be TF: or Combat Driving if he's REAL good), and it
> doesn't help him maintain his rig beyond the most basic of things - for that
> he'd need Mechanics (and every truck driver I ever met was at least a
> halfway decent mechanic - i.e. I'd say they had 8- with Mechanics. A real
> auto mechanic would have both Mechanics and PS: Auto Mechanic (and probably
> FAM w/ Electronics, too).
A PS isn't all encompassing and it won't replace any other
skill. However it does represent the knowledge that a typical member of
that profession would possess.
> Note that someone who was a _Mathematician_ would have SS: Mathematics 11-
> (or more) AND PS: Mathematician. Someone in Aerospace Engineering has PS:
> Aerospace Engineer 11-, SS: Aerospace Engineering 11-, SS: Mathematics 8-,
> SS: Physics 8-, SS: Mechanical Engineering 8-, Electrical Engineering 8-,
> Computer Programming 8-, and a handful of other skills. Note that this
> doesn't make him a 'qualified' general Mech.Eng., or Elec.Eng., or Computer
> Programmer, but he would have a background in said skills and be able to
> perform minor tasks in those areas, even if they are NOT related to the
> aerospace industry.
I wouldn't disagree with the first two, but the rest are not necessary.
If you want to be a better computer programmer than a typical aerospace
engineer then buy the skill, but it isn't neccessary.
> I don't agree. Champions, by the book, grossly underestimates the skill
> requirements of a Doctor. Having Paramedic, KS: Medicine and Licensed Doctor
> is NOT enough. My brother's a doctor, and I know what he went through and
> what he learned to get there. In Canada at least, you have to have at least
> 3 years of undergraduate work in a related science. My brother got a degree
> in Biochemistry. That alone would give him SS: Biochemistry 11- and probably
> SS: Chemistry 8- (if not more) and SS: Mathematics 8-. [BTW, you yourself
The SS: Biochemistry would also include a knowledge of chemistry.
> call a FAM as a 'good hobbyist' - well, you've got to be more than a
> 'hobbyist' at math to get a degree in most sciences]. Then he started
That's not quite what I meant. By a "Talented Amateur" I meant someone
who was almost as good as a professional. Someone who could with some
experience become a professional. Even familiarity with a skill would
represent years of practice with that skill.
> medschool. First year alone would have given him KS: Anatomy 11-. He already
> had Paramedic 8- (St.John's training) before he hit university. Over the
> next few years, he gets KS: Medicine, improves his paramedic, gains basic
> surgical skills (PS: Surgery 8-, which certainly goes beyond Paramedic), and
> goodness knows what other skills, like SS: Pathology 8-, KS: Pharmacuticals,
> and more. And, finally, of course, PS: Doctor and his license. Anybody who
> thinks Paramedic and KS: Medicine is enough to get a license has no clue
> just what a doctor has to learn.
Anyone who has completed a 4 year undergraduate degree will have
completed at least 20 year-long courses, maybe more. That doesn't mean
that that person should have to pay familiarity with 20 skills. I
complete a minor in economics and I don't think that would be worth FAM:
economics (8-). The SS: Medicine would represent all that stuff that a
Doctor would learn in Med school.
It's not that champions underestimates
all the work that goes into becoming a licensed professional. It is just
that almost any skill in champions represents a huge commitment in terms
effort and time. Think about how much time it would take to gain the
abilities that 3 points points in acrobatics would give you. How about 3
points in forensic medicine or security systems.
> Champions just tends to abstract in the name of playability. That doesn't
> make it _accurate_, just easier. People writing themselves up want to be
> accurate, and that costs points.
>
> >A SKILL THAT WILL NEVER BE USED DURING THE COURSE OF PLAY SHOULD NOT COST
> >POINTS.
>
> How does this apply to people writing themselves up? Some people do and
> would rate KS: Beavis and Butthead. And you can never tell what is or isn't
> going to be 'relevant' in a campaign. Most people don't have more than a
> handful of hobbies. Some people, however, have had multiple professions,
> many hobbies, and lots of other interests. They do rate those skills, b/c
> they've invested major time in them.
As a GM I have a pretty good idea what is likely to be useful in a
campaign that I run. If it turns out that I made a mistake and something
in a character description should be on the character's skill list, then
I might shave some experience points or award a couple extra ones. I
think that a detailed description of a character's background is as
important as the character sheet for exactly that reason.
If someone has an exceptional background then of course they will need
more points. I gave the example of a green beret. Anyone who has
lots of combat skill will be expensive because combat skill are
expensive relative to background skills. Someone who has
attained a high level of expertise in several professions might also take
more points to write up, but those people would be pretty rare.
>
> >existence (It's OK Bob, you don't have to buy familiarity with toothbushes
> >to maintain good oral hygiene.)
>
> That's a bit rediculous. But if he collected and/or designed toothbrushes in
> his spare time, he certainly should buy KS: Toothbrushes or something. But
> few super-types actually have those kind of 'lesser' hobbies. They don't
> have the time for them. When was the last time you saw Spiderman display his
> great knowledge of current TV programming? Right - Spidey doesn't have the
> time to watch much TV.
The example was meant to be ridiculous. The Hero system doesn't sweat
the small stuff. The vast personally important minutia of our everyday
lives is simply ignored by the hero system. If a few points represents
years of education and experience then anything less than a major commitment
in your life isn't worth spending points on.
I don't think that this is a flaw in the hero system. I don't think that
a novel doesn't cover every detail of a protagonist's life is a failure
either. Champions focuses on the broad abilities and significant areas
of expertise because that is what is important in a role-playing game.
> >Sorry for the rant. I went on much longer than I had planned. Let me
> >by saying that if someone is a Green Beret or SWAT team member they will
> >probably take between 100 and 150 points to describe in champions. They
> >are going to have lots of skills that will be useful in combat and other
> >role playing situations. But most of use can easily be simulated as
> >normals (5 pts.) or skilled normals (35 pts.).
>
> Bottom line is that's because they probably KNOW, by direct knowledge, or
> serious observation/study, just what a Green Beret/SWAT member has to know.
> As opposed to the GM who just wants faceless SWAT members for the villians
> to mow down before meeting the super-PCs, who doesn't have the time or need
> to find out exactly what they really DO have. He just puts down PS: SWAT
> member, gives him a gun, and goes. Good for playability, but not at all
> accurate.
Champions is my favorite role-playing game. I feel that playibility is
important. I also think that accuracy to a character comes out in the
role-playing, not in the game mechanics.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "By all that's unholy, the Enigma Force has given Captain Universe the power
> to back up his sickening platitudes!"
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> John D. Prins
> jprins@interhop.net
>
>
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:29:54 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 7
At 05:21 PM 11/22/97 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Sat, 22 Nov 1997 Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>> It's not an unrealistic number. I wrote up Frank Farmer, the ultimate
>> bodyguard from the Whitney Houston, Kevin Costner movie, "THE BODYGUARD".
>> I stuck to normal stat levels, and only wrote what he demonstrated
competency
>> with during the movie, and he went over 325 points...
>
>Most of which was paid for by the 100 point Physical Limitation of "Must
>hang around Whiteny Houston and listen to her crappy singing".
Just so nobody ever attributes Kevin Kostner with enough the "imitate
dialects" element for the English language.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 01:49 PM