Week Ending November 29, 1997
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From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 23 Nov 97 01:36:26 GMT
Subject: Red OCtober Listserv HERO
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Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
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There is a listserv at Red October, the unofficial HERO gaming BBS/website.
Send email to
listserv@october.com
for info.
Mike Adams
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 18:20:50 -0800
From: mcallahan <mcallahan@home.com>
Reply-To: mcallahan@home.com
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
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>I know two paramedics and neither of them have good things to say
>about most doctors skill at emergency medicine. I'm not sure I'd require
>a character who was a doctor to buy paramedic skill, but I've never had a
>player who created a doctor without it.
Doctors have to learn the skill Paramedic, then most of them go into
positions where they never have to use it (like the generic family
doctor)
thus, most doctors are not as good at paramedics, as the average
paramedic is.
There is no mechanism for skill atrophy in the hero rules though (and I
personally don't want to see one).
You will probably never see a doctor PC built with out paramedics
however,
because the doctor PC is there to keep the other PC's alive, and you
need
paramedic for that. I wouldn't build a Paramedic character with out at
least a +2 to his Paramedic skill roll keeping Paramedics better at
paramedic
than most doctors (except the trama ward ones).
mcallahan@home.com
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 21:46:58 -0500 (EST)
X-Sender: jprins@interhop.net
From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
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>>I know two paramedics and neither of them have good things to say
>>about most doctors skill at emergency medicine. I'm not sure I'd require
>>a character who was a doctor to buy paramedic skill, but I've never had a
>>player who created a doctor without it.
>
>Doctors have to learn the skill Paramedic, then most of them go into
>positions where they never have to use it (like the generic family
>doctor)
Many family practitioners serve as emergency room staff at least several
days a month. At least in Canada they do.
>thus, most doctors are not as good at paramedics, as the average
>paramedic is.
True. A Paramedic is better at getting you stable. Of course, that's all
they really can do...
>There is no mechanism for skill atrophy in the hero rules though (and I
>personally don't want to see one).
Sure there is. It's called 'trading in X for Y' with the justification (to
the GM) of 'skill atrophy' :-).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"By all that's unholy, the Enigma Force has given Captain Universe the power
to back up his sickening platitudes!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
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Date: 22 Nov 1997 23:42:34 -0500
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>>>>> "m" == mcallahan <mcallahan@home.com> writes:
m> Doctors have to learn the skill Paramedic,
No, they don't. Most physicians and surgeons get to "basic first aid", the
everyman 8- Paramedics roll. Few doctors are trained to deal directly with
the kind of emergency medical response expected of a trained Paramedic.
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Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 22:47:21 -0600
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: DNPC: Pets
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At 10:57 PM 11/19/97 +0500, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>Michael Adams wrote:
>>Maybe have a dog or cat hero and have a DNPC human (grin).
>>
>Yeah, but I haven't had anyone want to play Rin-Tin-Tin, or Rex, The Wonder
>Dog, yet...
>
I played "Biff the Wonder-Dog" in a campaign, unfortunately the GM
secretly hated the concept, so he killed the character off as soon as
possible- the same process that gave Biff human intellegence also gave him
uncurable cancer....
Earl Kwallek - Earl@TheWarren.Mil.Wi.US
A Man with a gun is a citizen;
a man without a gun is a subject.
The best Gun in the World is -
The one that you have ready in your Hand!
X-Sender: wabbit@globaldialog.com (Unverified)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 22:49:33 -0600
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: DCH to Hero conversion help needed
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>Lisa Hartjes wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I've got a really old campaign idea from a DC Heroes game I was a player in
>> and I'm thinking of seeing if I can convert it to Hero. The help I need is
>> for converting power levels. For example, how many AP's would a level of 2
>> be for powers? What skill roll would result from a 2 in Detective?
>>
>> If there is a conversion chart out there, I'd appreciate it if someone can
>> lead me to it.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your help!
>>
>> Lisa Hartjes
>> beren@unforgettable.com
Lisa, the article was in AC#10, if you need more info on it, drop me
E-Mail.
Earl Kwallek - Earl@TheWarren.Mil.Wi.US
A Man with a gun is a citizen;
a man without a gun is a subject.
The best Gun in the World is -
The one that you have ready in your Hand!
Reply-To: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
Subject: Change of address
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 00:27:55 -0500
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This is to remind everyone that my email address has changed, and to ask
that the admin of the list remembers to change it. You're probably getting
all sorts of bounced messages now.
Lisa Hartjes
beren@unforgettable.com
Home: http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/daniken/79
"What do you mean, don't press the red button......."
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 01:34:54 -0600 (CST)
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From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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On the other hand...
When I wrote up my self I had a 3 OCV, with one level. That makes me a 4
and I was being very generous.
During Sniper school I was able to, on a daily basis, put 4 out of five
shots with an M16-A2 into a target the size of a baseball at 100 meters. I
had a grouping not much larger than a quarter most of the time. An M16 is
listed as plus one, I was braced and set.
What would my total OCV have to be?
What is the DCV of a baseball at 100 meters?
Hmmmmmmm
Rising Force Publications
Herozine The Superhero RPG Fanzine...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 00:36:52 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
CC: hero-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
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Michael Nunn wrote:
> On the other hand...
>
> When I wrote up my self I had a 3 OCV, with one level. That makes me a 4
> and I was being very generous.
>
> During Sniper school I was able to, on a daily basis, put 4 out of five
> shots with an M16-A2 into a target the size of a baseball at 100 meters. I
> had a grouping not much larger than a quarter most of the time. An M16 is
> listed as plus one, I was braced and set.
>
> What would my total OCV have to be?
>
> What is the DCV of a baseball at 100 meters?
>
A baseball is probally around 12 cm or so; which is a 1/16 human sized, so
-8 to hit.It is a 'non-combat' object, so it has a base DCV of 0. 100 meters is
50 hexes, so -8 range modifier.
Braced is +2, set is +1.
This gives a total modifier of -13 to your OCV.
80% of your shots hit, this means your final adjusted to hit roll was 13-
To get such a to hit roll you need
X-13-0=13 or a 26 OCV.
Either you're a seriously high point Super, or Hero isn't matching reality
here.
Note that some people would have given the ball a base DCV of 3, like a hex...
This would
mean you'd need an OCV of 29...
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Cc: "hero-l@omg.org" <hero-l@omg.org>
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 97 10:01:57
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
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On Sun, 23 Nov 1997 00:36:52 -0800, Rook wrote:
>Michael Nunn wrote:
>
>> On the other hand...
>>
>> When I wrote up my self I had a 3 OCV, with one level. That makes me a 4
>> and I was being very generous.
>>
>> During Sniper school I was able to, on a daily basis, put 4 out of five
>> shots with an M16-A2 into a target the size of a baseball at 100 meters. I
>> had a grouping not much larger than a quarter most of the time. An M16 is
>> listed as plus one, I was braced and set.
>>
>> What would my total OCV have to be?
>>
>> What is the DCV of a baseball at 100 meters?
>>
>
> A baseball is probally around 12 cm or so; which is a 1/16 human sized, so
>-8 to hit.It is a 'non-combat' object, so it has a base DCV of 0. 100 meters is
>50 hexes, so -8 range modifier.
>Braced is +2, set is +1.
>This gives a total modifier of -13 to your OCV.
> 80% of your shots hit, this means your final adjusted to hit roll was 13-
>To get such a to hit roll you need
>X-13-0=13 or a 26 OCV.
>
> Either you're a seriously high point Super, or Hero isn't matching reality
>here.
>Note that some people would have given the ball a base DCV of 3, like a hex...
>This would
>mean you'd need an OCV of 29...
He'd also get hefty bonuses for extra time and repeat shots (the
baseball isn't doing anything).
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Marvel Conversions: Doctor Doom
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 03:51:20 -0800
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On Thursday, November 20, 1997 11:52 AM, Sam Bell wrote:
<snip>
> 25 Distinctive Features: Either mask or horribly scarred face. Not
concealable,
> Extreme reaction
<snip>
>His 10 Com is with the mask on. Without the mask, it is considerably
lower.
I've seen Doom's face. His "horribly scarred face" has a single scar
two inches long on one cheek. He's just psychotic about it.
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 03:55:12 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
To: champ-l@omg.org <champ-l@omg.org>
Date: Thursday, November 20, 1997 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Marvel Char: Juggernaut
>Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria wrote:
>>
>> This is Professor X's half-brother. He found a mystical stone
which
>> gave him powers. See if your heroes can scratch this guy :p
>>
>> Name : Juggernaut
>> Secret ID:
>> Value Char Cost Base Max Pts
>> 50 Str........x1 10 N/A 40
>
>Probably on par if you go by Marvel stats, but in a champs write-up
>he should be stronger.
This is why, in my campaign, a 60 STR is only able to deadlift around
40-50 tonnes. To get to the same lifting capacity that a 65 gives you
now, you needed about 100. I got tired of a berserk Hulk displaying an
enormous strength of 70, but showing the ability to do damage as if he
had 100 or more.
It was that or give all Marvel bricks HAs.
Filksinger
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 04:53:07 -0800
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Not-so-normal write-ups
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ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>
> I'd like to see some normal write ups of you people. Yeah, you.
> I wouldn't mind if they were a bit humorous, either...
> I double dare you.
> ...OK! OK! It's my pathetic half-arsed way of wanting to get to know
> all of you better. :)
> All that is good and pure! His Psychological Limitations!
> Jason Sullivan
Okay. give me a couple o' days, I have a writeup - mostly realistic -
somewhere around here, and I have no shame, so when I find it, I'll
POST!
(And that's a bonafide threat!)
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 05:02:28 -0800
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Questionable powers...
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ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>
> How do simulate a hero with the power of Animate Matter (i.e. he
> can create golems out of thin air from readily available materials, like
> giant boulders... or he could animate a car...). The effects are temporary.
Okay, I have not seen this mentioned yet, but I'm ABSOLUTELY
CONVINCED that *somewhere* I saw a limitation for TK; only to animate
objects, I believe for (-1/2). I don't know if it was an AC or possibly
3rd ed. BBB, but I saw it somewhere. Please, somebody verify my claim,
'cause it's exACTLy what is being looked for here.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 09:44:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Questionable powers...
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On Sun, 23 Nov 1997, Captain Spith wrote:
> ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> >
> > How do simulate a hero with the power of Animate Matter (i.e. he
> > can create golems out of thin air from readily available materials, like
> > giant boulders... or he could animate a car...). The effects are temporary.
>
> Okay, I have not seen this mentioned yet, but I'm ABSOLUTELY
> CONVINCED that *somewhere* I saw a limitation for TK; only to animate
> objects, I believe for (-1/2). I don't know if it was an AC or possibly
> 3rd ed. BBB, but I saw it somewhere. Please, somebody verify my claim,
> 'cause it's exACTLy what is being looked for here.
I beleive that "Animate Object" was from Champions II or Champions III.
It's not in my copy of 3rd Edition Champions.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 10:01:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org, hero-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
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On Sun, 23 Nov 1997, Rook wrote:
> Michael Nunn wrote:
>
> > On the other hand...
> >
> > When I wrote up my self I had a 3 OCV, with one level. That makes me a 4
> > and I was being very generous.
> >
> > During Sniper school I was able to, on a daily basis, put 4 out of five
> > shots with an M16-A2 into a target the size of a baseball at 100 meters. I
> > had a grouping not much larger than a quarter most of the time. An M16 is
> > listed as plus one, I was braced and set.
> >
> > What would my total OCV have to be?
> >
> > What is the DCV of a baseball at 100 meters?
> >
>
> A baseball is probally around 12 cm or so; which is a 1/16 human sized, so
> -8 to hit.It is a 'non-combat' object, so it has a base DCV of 0. 100 meters is
> 50 hexes, so -8 range modifier.
> Braced is +2, set is +1.
> This gives a total modifier of -13 to your OCV.
> 80% of your shots hit, this means your final adjusted to hit roll was 13-
> To get such a to hit roll you need
> X-13-0=13 or a 26 OCV.
Actually, you missed a few modifers.
Going with your numbers, Mike has an OCV of 3, and is trying to hit a DCV
8 object. He is at -8 OCV due to range.
Mike has a +1 OCV (CSL). He also is using a M-16 which (in Hero terms)
gives a +2 OCV, +1 RMod. He is Braced (+2 RMod) and Set (+1 OCV).
Adding it all up, Mike now has an OCV of 7 and a range modifer of -5. So,
Mike's effective attacking OCV is now a 2. He needs to roll a 5 or less
to hit a DCV of 8. In order to hit on a 13 or less, he would need an OCV
of 15. (15 - 5 = 10 / 10 + 11 - 8 = 13)
The 15 is pretty easy to hit if
A: you give guns in Hero higher Range Modifers (something that was done in
the 3G guns book)
B: Mike uses a targeting scope
C: Mike has more than +1 level in firearms
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
X-Sender: jhebert@texas.net
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 09:51:21 -0600
From: Jeff Hebert <jhebert@texas.net>
Subject: Ranged Martial Arts
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Wind Dragon is a martial artist who can control the winds to do his
bidding. He wants to be able to use the winds to strike at opponents at a
distance with his precise martial strikes and throws.
Is it allowable to use martial arts at range? Specifically, the following
two scenarios have been proposed by the player:
(1) Stretching, with the special effect of the winds reaching out and
smacking around opponents.
(2) TK with fine control, same special effect.
I lean towards allowing the stretching, since the BBB says that is the way
you buy range on strength. TK just gives too much range.
Apologies if this issue has already been beaten to death by the list before
I joined. Then again, what *hasn't* already been beaten to death by this
list? :-)
Jeff
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Ranged Martial Arts
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>>>>> "JH" == Jeff Hebert <jhebert@texas.net> writes:
JH> (1) Stretching, with the special effect of the winds reaching out and
JH> smacking around opponents.
Mechanically legal, but you will have problems because the mechanics do not
model the effects. To wit, things like Damage Shield will be a problem
when the SFX say it should not.
JH> (2) TK with fine control, same special effect.
Maybe... but only in a wild martial arts campaign. Otherwise the player
will have to buy powers and skill levels that simulate the effects of his
art. TK is a good base from which to work, though.
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:
MS> Actually, you missed a few modifers.
You missed one yourself: +5 for total lack of combat stress. This is on
the range, not the battlefield.
Base OCV 3, +1 (CSL) +2 (weapon), +1 (set) +5 = 12. Actually, I would give
him at least one additional CSL for the sniper school training. That
brings his effective OCV up to 13. Adjust the inherent RMod of the weapon
up to something reasonable (+3 RMod or so, but not much more since the
M-16A2 is not a sniping weapon; a sniper's rifle should have upwards of +10
RMod) and you have something approximating reality.
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 23 Nov 97 19:15:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
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h > From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
h >
h > If you want detailed skill lists, you go to Fuzion or GURPS.
h > If you want difficulty levels with it, go to GURPS.
.....
h > Much as I hate to admit it, Fuzion is a much better choice for a
h > game needing detailed skills and a hard core feel. Of course, it loses
I'll agree on the hard core feel - Fuzion is lethal compared to
Hero. But, the way Fuzion works skills makes developing a
serious skill-based character very difficult. You might be
able to get a reasonable number of skills to start, but, once
you move into actual play, the experience system gets in the
way of improving skills.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 14:26:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
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On 23 Nov 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> >>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:
>
> MS> Actually, you missed a few modifers.
>
> You missed one yourself: +5 for total lack of combat stress. This is on
> the range, not the battlefield.
And like that combat mod shows up in any rulebook? Get real Rat, I was
going straight by the book for the modifiers.
> Base OCV 3, +1 (CSL) +2 (weapon), +1 (set) +5 = 12. Actually, I would give
> him at least one additional CSL for the sniper school training. That
> brings his effective OCV up to 13. Adjust the inherent RMod of the weapon
> up to something reasonable (+3 RMod or so, but not much more since the
> M-16A2 is not a sniping weapon; a sniper's rifle should have upwards of +10
> RMod) and you have something approximating reality.
Agreed. If you take any decent rifle, add on a good scope and Set and
Brace, the average character can hit most anything. At one point, one of
the characters in our camapgin could hit targets out to one kilometer
without suffering any Range Modifers.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 11:37:42 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Unusual character concepts : American Star
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Ok, since "Alone At Midnight" is doing it, I thought I'd try sending one
of my 'hard to do in Hero' concepts.
Maybe somebody here can find a better angle than I have for doing
this.
American Star is my old V&V character, She's never quite converted well
for me.
Yuri Inomata comes from an ancient Ninja family in Hiroshima. Her
grandfather was the clans
only survivor after the bombing in WWII. His daughter was her mother,
his only child. She married an
American GI of Apache descent and had two twin children; Yuri and her
Brother.
Yuri has the inborn power to alter the point from which gravity
pulls her. She has so fine a control over
this that she can stand on the tip of a single strand of hair. She also
has the ability to regenerate from any wound. She has even once
recovered from being blown apart into tiny bit. As long as a single cell
survives, so will she; given time.
Her 'clan' heritage gives her acess to Ninjitsu training and 6
Mystic Shuriken, each embeded with the soul of one of her ancestors.
They are capable of independant action and are not under her control so
much as in cooperation and acting as her mentors.
A Living Legends version (3rd edition V&V) of her was made at one point,
though it didn't do the stars
right. It's on the web at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/LLNW/cast/Am_star.htm
How would the gravity power and the regeneration best be done. As well
as the Shuriken.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 23 Nov 97 19:39:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
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h > From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
h >
h > I disagree. As someone else said, to make a 'detailed character in
h > Hero I spend about 100 to 200 on skills, then I end up spending only 10
h > a set of super powers, this seems off-balance. The powers should cost a
h > times more.
h >
That's because they're doing it wrong. Anyone can waste points in
Hero - I can build a character with 500pts worth of powers who is
virtually useless in virtually an situation. So some folks are
really good at wasting points on overly-specific, redundant skills,
that's they're problem, not the system's.
Knowledge skills, Sciences, and such were tossed into Champions II
so that players could add a little background detail to thier
characters. For instance, instead of just saying 'my character is
a lawyer in his secret ID,' you could actually buy a KS: Law or
PS: Lawyer, or whatever, an extra 2 or 3 points and the characters
(relatively unimportant to the game) background is taken care of.
Unfortunately, some people have gotten the idea that - since these
user-defined skills can be very detailed - you *have* to buy every
little skill you can immaging. Instead of KS: Law, you have
KS: Penal Code, KS: Case Law, KS: notorious precedents, KS: judicial
procedings, KS: jurisprudence, KS: Tort Law, KS: Tort reform issues,
KS: Civil procedings, KS: local statutes, KS: Constitution,
KS: 'Technicalities,' KS: Civil rights issues, KS: Corporate Law,
KS: Criminal Justice System, KS: rules of evidence, KS: Probate,
KS: Divorce procedings, KS: History of the Legal System in the US,
KS: Local Politics, KS: Local Judges, KS: Bar Association Rules.
It's totally unnecessary, to represent a character's proffession,
you shouldn't need more than, a KS or Science, for the knowledge ne
a PS for the proffesion, and, maybee a second, more specific KS for
a speciality. Certianly you can get more than that if you want,
for a particularly diverse or detailed character, but the basics
should be enough if your profession ins't going to be a major
focus in game play. (If you're a lawyer and there are going to
be a lot of courtroom scense, more detail might be in order).
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 11:42:15 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
CC: hero-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
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Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> >>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:
>
> MS> Actually, you missed a few modifers.
>
> You missed one yourself: +5 for total lack of combat stress. This is on
> the range, not the battlefield.
>
What page is that on? I can't find it.
> Base OCV 3, +1 (CSL) +2 (weapon), +1 (set) +5 = 12. Actually, I would give
> him at least one additional CSL for the sniper school training. That
> brings his effective OCV up to 13. Adjust the inherent RMod of the weapon
> up to something reasonable (+3 RMod or so, but not much more since the
> M-16A2 is not a sniping weapon; a sniper's rifle should have upwards of +10
> RMod) and you have something approximating reality.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 23 Nov 97 19:44:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Strength
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
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h > From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
h >
h > was complaining about Hero bricks being able to lift more
h > than they should when
h > made at the same power level of the non-brick characters.
h > A person who feels that way is better using a system like GURPS
h > where the brick will be on power
h > with the other PC's without having a very high lifting capacity.
Not at all, if you want a brick with a relatively low lifting capacity
but competative damage in Champions just tack on a simple martial
arts package (like boxing - hardly looks different than what the
supers are doing already). If you want a really strong brick just
get him the STR (if you want him to be a skilled combatant, too,
buy levels instead of martial arts). If you want a *really* strong
brick by extra STR for Lifting & throwing distances, but not damage.
If you're concerned about playing just the character you want,
play Champions.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Mail-Copies-To: never
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:
>> You missed one yourself: +5 for total lack of combat stress. This is on
>> the range, not the battlefield.
MS> And like that combat mod shows up in any rulebook? Get real Rat, I was
MS> going straight by the book for the modifiers.
You're right; I forgot a few, CD, page 18:
+3 to +5 Routine task
+1 to +3 Excelent conditions for performing the skill
Because shooting a target on a range isn't combat.
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From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 15:08:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: Writing Up Yourself
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In a message dated 11/23/97 10:08:58 AM, bsvitavs@bu.edu wrote:
>could buy KS: Beavis & Butthead Trivia 14- or PS: Concert Pianist 14-.
Uhh...heh..heh.. He said "pianist". Heh..heh..heh.
--
Butt-Head
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Unusual character concepts : American Star
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "R" == Rook <rook@infinex.com> writes:
R> How would the gravity power and the regeneration best be done. As well
R> as the Shuriken.
Gravity power: Flight and Acrobatics.
Regeneration: I have seen at least three different ways of accomplishing
this, from Summon to extra Body.
Shuriken: Followers, maybe, or just TK, depending on how complex their
actions are.
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From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 23 Nov 97 22:17:40 GMT
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* Original Area: RO_Internet
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* Original To : Michael Adams (1:143/240)
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From: listserv@october.com (listserv)
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Subject: Information request
To get more help, or to make changes to which mailing lists you are
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Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 17:38:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
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On 23 Nov 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> >>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:
>
> >> You missed one yourself: +5 for total lack of combat stress. This is on
> >> the range, not the battlefield.
>
> MS> And like that combat mod shows up in any rulebook? Get real Rat, I was
> MS> going straight by the book for the modifiers.
>
> You're right; I forgot a few, CD, page 18:
>
> +3 to +5 Routine task
> +1 to +3 Excelent conditions for performing the skill
>
> Because shooting a target on a range isn't combat.
Rat, that has to be the biggest load of crap I have ever seen. Those are
modifers for Skills, not CVs. What skill is the character using to his
his target? You are very big on 'vanilla' Champions rules, and according
to the rulebook, trying to hit something with an attack power (here RKA)
requires an attack roll. Such a roll is derived from one's CV. The
modifers you mention are listed under Skills, not combat.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 17:46:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Unusual character concepts : American Star
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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On Sun, 23 Nov 1997, Rook wrote:
> Yuri has the inborn power to alter the point from which gravity
> pulls her. She has so fine a control over
> this that she can stand on the tip of a single strand of hair.
That's easy. The power would be Flight (with a lot of levels in Turn
Mode, or a "No Turn Mode Needed" advantage). I would also recommend
Acrobatics.
> She also
> has the ability to regenerate from any wound. She has even once
> recovered from being blown apart into tiny bit. As long as a single cell
> survives, so will she; given time.
This is a tough one and is probably a whole mess of points no matter how
you slice it.
Probably the best way to write this up would be to by the character a
*very* large amount of Body with the limitation of "Only to stave off
actual death" (-2?). The idea being that if the character has (say) 10
Body, putting the character at -10 renders them out of the fight but not
dead. If they had bought +50 Body with the above limitation, then you wou
need to reduce them to -60 Body to totally destroy them. A good stunt for
unkillable slashers in hockey masks, vampires and other supernatural
nightmares.
On top of that, buy a Triggered Body Aid (with the Continous advantage so
it will keep working for more than one Phase) and some Regeneration.
Depending on if the GM wil allow Regen to regow lost limbs, you might not
need the Body Aid.
> Her 'clan' heritage gives her acess to Ninjitsu training and 6
> Mystic Shuriken, each embeded with the soul of one of her ancestors.
> They are capable of independant action and are not under her control so
> much as in cooperation and acting as her mentors.
If the shuriken can think by themselves (and move on their own) buy them
as Followers. Actually... they way you have them described, they are
Followers.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
X-Originating-IP: [207.24.16.23]
From: "Garrett Hashimoto" <constantine1000@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Unusual character concepts : American Star
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 15:13:48 PST
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>
>
>
> Yuri has the inborn power to alter the point from which gravity
>pulls her. She has so fine a control over
>this that she can stand on the tip of a single strand of hair.
How about flight ("only while touching surface"?) although counting a
strand of hair as a surface is kinda stretching it but if the concept is
alright I would allow it.
She has even once
>recovered from being blown apart into tiny bit. As long as a single
cell
>survives, so will she; given time.
WOW! Cool power! :)
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 17:25:01 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
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>What is the DCV of a baseball at 100 meters?
>
>
>Hmmmmmmm
I have long thought the perfect combat system would simulate baseball
smoothly, its heinous to figure out in hero.
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
From: "Len Carpenter" <redlion@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: Questionable powers . . .
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:05:51 -0500
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> From: Captain Spith
>
> ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> >
> > How do simulate a hero with the power of Animate Matter (i.e. he
> > can create golems out of thin air from readily available materials, like
> > giant boulders... or he could animate a car...). The effects are
temporary.
>
> Okay, I have not seen this mentioned yet, but I'm ABSOLUTELY
> CONVINCED that *somewhere* I saw a limitation for TK; only to animate
> objects, I believe for (-1/2). I don't know if it was an AC or possibly
> 3rd ed. BBB, but I saw it somewhere. Please, somebody verify my claim,
> 'cause it's exACTLy what is being looked for here.
>
The -1/2 Limitation: Animate Objects, usable on TK only, comes from the
Champions III supplement, pp. 48-9, right next to the comic panels where Foxbat
gets an ice cream cone shoved in his face by Marksman.
To paraphrase, the character can Animate an object to grab, throw, squeeze, or
manipulate things. The character must make a ranged Attack Roll against the
object to be Animated. Once Animated, the object can use STR up to 5x the
total (DEF + BODY) of the object. The object Animated can have a total (DEF +
BODY) of up to (points/5) in Animate Object. If the object has more (DEF +
BODY) than (points/5), the object won't move, but the character must still
expend the END for the power.
The ability of the object to move and do work is based on its shape. If the
shape is appropriate, the Animated Object may perform fine work. The Animated
Object can attack with the character's OCV, -1 per 3" distance from the
controlling character. The object doesn't gain in DEF or BODY from being
animated, and can be damaged by attacks. If the object is attached to
something else, it must uproot itself with its STR for it become mobile. If
the object is mobile, it can move at a rate of 1" per 1 point of Animate Object
not use to Animate the object, so the object's movement is (points in Animate
Object) - 5 x (DEF + BODY) in inches. The DCV of the Animated Object is based
on size mods only.
Incidentally, some of the comic panels in Champions III are pretty funny. It's
a pity the book has been out of print for so long.
Len Carpenter
redlion@early.com
X-Sender: rambler@sowest.net (Unverified)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 21:55:17 -0700
From: Eric Chaves <rambler@sowest.net>
Subject: Re: Star Ship Trooper Game?
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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>Is there any such animal? If there is, how close to the book versus the movie?
>
>Morgoth
I think there are two games based on Starship Trooper. An older one based
on the book and a newer one based on the movie. The old one has the guys
in the power armor on the box and the new one has a scene from the movie.
The new one just came out recently. (I saw it a game store about 2-3 weeks
ago)
Geek Code
****************************************************************************
GCS d++ H s:+ !g !p au+ a- w++ v++ C++++ UL+ P? L+ 3- E? N+++ K- W--- M++ !V
po--- Y+ t++ 5 j R++ G'' tv++ b++ D++ B--- e- u** h+ f+ r n+ y**
****************************************************************************
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From: Eric Chaves <rambler@sowest.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 21:55:17 -0700
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
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Subject: Re: Star Ship Trooper Game?
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>Is there any such animal? If there is, how close to the book versus the movie?
>
>Morgoth
I think there are two games based on Starship Trooper. An older one based
on the book and a newer one based on the movie. The old one has the guys
in the power armor on the box and the new one has a scene from the movie.
The new one just came out recently. (I saw it a game store about 2-3 weeks
ago)
Geek Code
****************************************************************************
GCS d++ H s:+ !g !p au+ a- w++ v++ C++++ UL+ P? L+ 3- E? N+++ K- W--- M++ !V
po--- Y+ t++ 5 j R++ G'' tv++ b++ D++ B--- e- u** h+ f+ r n+ y**
****************************************************************************
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:57:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CHAR: ZATANNA
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HERO: ZATANNA (version 2)
[Characteristics] [Disadvantages]
16 STR Watched: Mystic Powers (MP, NCI, 11-)
20 DEX Distinctive Features: Gorgeous,
30 CON All Powers Obvious when used,
13 BOD Extreme Reaction (Spooky)
38 INT Psych: Must Speak Spells, Backwards
48 EGO Psych: Occasionally gets giddy and afraid
25 PRE "Loose"
32 COM Loves Father & Misses Mother
30 PD Homo-Magi Bonus
30 ED Quite Public ID
5 SPD
25 REC
80 END
80 STN
[Powers]
20/20 Resistant Pd/Ed
Full Life Support
26pts Mental Defense
20pts Power Defense
TK Fine Manip. 0 End 10 Str
360 Degreee Spatial Awareness
Sense Magic at Range, 360 degrees, Targeting,
Discriminatory, +13 to Per Roll
Extra-Dimensional Travel, Any Dimension
125 Point Variable Power Pool, Incantations
req. Skill Roll, Any types of Powers
Luck 5 Dice, Usable by Others, Not at Same Time
+3 Levels with Magic Pool
+25 PRE, Defensive Only
Occultist: 19- Air Magic Skill: 19- Earth Magic Skill: 19-
Flame Magic Skill: 19- Light Magic Skill 19- Ice Magic Skill: 19-
Plant Magic Skill: 19- Sorcery: 18- Water Magic Skill: 19-
Weather Magic Skill: 19- Business 14- Wealth 10
Trader 15- Showmanship 13- Stage Magic 16-
Sleight of Hand 19- KS: Magic 14-
Connection: Mystical Community
Justice League of Alabama
Magic Background
Gender: Female Alter Ego: Zatanna Zatara Height: 5'7"
Weight: 126 pounds Eyes: Blue Hair: Black
This is Zatanna post-modern. She used to have real low defenses and more
magic power (VPP 200). But she gave up part of the pool to permanently
increase her own toughness & battlefield survivability.
This is the re-write version, taking into account the criticisms received,
as well as having played her as an NPC for two game sessions.
--
Elliott
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:25:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: CHAR: ZATANNA
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On Sun, 23 Nov 1997 Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>
> HERO: ZATANNA (version 2)
>
> [Characteristics] [Disadvantages]
> 16 STR Watched: Mystic Powers (MP, NCI, 11-)
Why a 16? If you're shooting for the round offs, go with a 15 or an 18.
> 20 DEX Distinctive Features: Gorgeous,
32 COM? You bet!
> 30 CON All Powers Obvious when used,
I think I'd rephrase that to "Obvious magical
aura when powers are in use."
> 13 BOD Extreme Reaction (Spooky)
> 38 INT Psych: Must Speak Spells, Backwards
Uhh... no. That would an "Incantations" Lim on
her powers. Consider this, can she make an GO roll to cast a spell with
out speaking in reverse?
> 48 EGO Psych: Occasionally gets giddy and afraid
<cough> 38 INT and a 48 EGO? Lawzy, just what was the average power level
of the game?
> 25 PRE "Loose"
> 32 COM Loves Father & Misses Mother
> 30 PD Homo-Magi Bonus
> 30 ED Quite Public ID
> 5 SPD
> 25 REC
> 80 END
> 80 STN
Hey, next time you do this, can you put some numbers in? I'd like to see
the point values for disads and such.
> [Powers]
> 20/20 Resistant Pd/Ed
> Full Life Support
> 26pts Mental Defense
> 20pts Power Defense
> TK Fine Manip. 0 End 10 Str
> 360 Degreee Spatial Awareness
> Sense Magic at Range, 360 degrees, Targeting,
> Discriminatory, +13 to Per Roll
> Extra-Dimensional Travel, Any Dimension
> 125 Point Variable Power Pool, Incantations
> req. Skill Roll, Any types of Powers
> Luck 5 Dice, Usable by Others, Not at Same Time
> +3 Levels with Magic Pool
> +25 PRE, Defensive Only
Okay, but you've got a Psych Lims that says otherwise. Anyone with a
defensive PRE of 50 and an EGO roll of 19- isn't going to have much
trouble with a Psych Lim of Occasionally gets giddy and afraid.
Personally, I'd drop one or the other (or give no points for the Psych).
> Occultist: 19- Air Magic Skill: 19- Earth Magic Skill: 19-
>
> Flame Magic Skill: 19- Light Magic Skill 19- Ice Magic Skill: 19-
>
> Plant Magic Skill: 19- Sorcery: 18- Water Magic Skill: 19-
>
> Weather Magic Skill: 19- Business 14- Wealth 10
Why so many Magic skills? Unless these are KS skills, you only need one
Sorcery skill to manipulate the power pool.
> Trader 15- Showmanship 13- Stage Magic 16-
> Sleight of Hand 19- KS: Magic 14-
> Connection: Mystical Community
> Justice League of Alabama
> Magic Background
>
> Gender: Female Alter Ego: Zatanna Zatara Height: 5'7"
>
> Weight: 126 pounds Eyes: Blue Hair: Black
>
> This is Zatanna post-modern. She used to have real low defenses and more
> magic power (VPP 200). But she gave up part of the pool to permanently
> increase her own toughness & battlefield survivability.
> This is the re-write version, taking into account the criticisms received,
> as well as having played her as an NPC for two game sessions.
How many points does this character come out to? (Just curious)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:50:25 -0500
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: Non shrinking shrinking
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>GS> I want some of the effects listed in the Shrinking table; thus, I buy
>GS> Shrinking and limit out the ones I don't want. Simple!
>
> Like what? List the effects you want.
Specifics are irrelevant; IMO, picking a power and limiting down to the
effects you want is nearly always* a valid technique in Hero.
Geoff Speare
* "nearly always": subject to the standard Hero caveat "except when it creates
serious point imbalances"
From: mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net (Mike Lehmann)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 04:18:42 -0800
Organization: Terminal BBS (403)327-9731
Subject: Question on Disads
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One of my players in my PBEM game has:
15 Enraged (When women or children are attacked, Common, 14-,
8- to recover)
If he is forced into combat with a female (or child) opponent, what
would you say happens? He obviously cannot get Enraged and attack
himself... I've been treating it as a 15 point Psych Limitation (Cannot
attack women or children, Common, Strong) for this type of situation.
Does anyone have any other suggestions on how to deal with this, and if
there is any logical way to circumvent/buy down this disad?
Note: The hero in question is a martial artist with Nerve Strike, which
IMO is the only attack he can use on such a foe.
GM: mike.lehmann@mail.terminal.net | Justice Krewe
Web: http://www.dfw.net/~aronhead/justice_krewe.html | The Illuminators
Short waiting list for new players | Enigma Watch
Lurkers welcome (Write to me!) | KnightWatch
... Quit laughing. I'm trying to humiliate you - Crow
~~~ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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Subject: Re: Writing up yourself
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 97 07:26:24 -0500
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <DFair@sdslink.com>
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I am not sure this reached the list the first time I sent it.
On 11/21/97 9:18 AM, Todd Hanson (badtodd@hotmail.com) Said:
>If you can dig this up, I would be interested in seeing it.
>
I'll look around at home.
>What do you consider 'combat driving' and 'combat piloting'? Unless
>you've had extensive training/experience driving and flying while in a
>combat situation, these would be covered already by your transport
>familiarities.
>
I have been in combat flying A-10 Thunderbolts (5 Years AF, 7 Air
National Guard, active duty during Desert Storm). I have been in
simulated combat in T-38's, F-16's and F-15's. I have driven in combat
situations Humvees, Jeep and other ground support vehicles.
>
>Okay, Transport familarities: Ground vehicles for 2 pts and probably 1
>pt for planes (or 2 pts if you also learned helicopters), another 2 pts
>for small arms, maybe a pt or 2 in uncommon if you've learned grenade
>launchers etc. This is still only 5-8 pts to cover just about anything
>earth based (or did you train at area 51?)
>
There is no way that 1 point should cover all aircraft. They are simply
too different (especially in combat). There is no way I could fly a
SR-71, a DC-9, a 747, or a U-2. Those big planes are vastly different
than flying a small fighter. One point doesn't even cover the
familiarity with the weapons systems of these planes, which not only vary
from airframe to airframe, but varies on a given airframe depending on
the mission. An F-15c pilot may need to learn to use 5 auxiliary systems
and 5 weapons systems just to qualify for full flight status, and even
then he's not checked out for the F-15d!
>I'm assuming you have quite a few points tied up in home and car..
>unless you consider yourself a superhero, you don't pay points for
>those.
>
That's true, but we were writing oursleves up as humans who were about to
be superheros, so that's why they were in there.
>As for the skills, you'd be surprised at how few skills most jobs
>actually require.. and most of those will be at the familiarity level.
>Most hobbies wouldnt even be something that you would pay points for
>(KS:Stamp collecting? KS:Hero Rules?). As for contacts, I would bet
>that most of them are merely aquaintances.
>
Well, I was thinking of Bow Hunting (which needs a weapon familiarity,
btw), coaching pony league baseball, and the time I spend as a lacrosse
referee. All KS & a few complimentary skills (persuasion & oratory come
to mind).
As for contacts, they are. These are people who I served with/under &
worked with/for. They have gotten me jobs, they have influence in the
military, etc. The president of the company I currently work for was my
squadron commander in Aviano, IT. He retired from the AF as a 1-Star
General, worked 10 years inside the Pentagon & now owns a AF Contracting
company that, among other things, helps write defense department policy
and startegy. Knowing him (and working 50 feet away from him) definately
counts as a contact. Another would be my old boss from the days as a DJ.
He is a well known local (CBS) TV reporter now (though not the lead
anchor) and lives less than 3 blocks away from me. I see him at least
once a week.
>
>I still maintain my position that anybody who spends a large amount of
>points building 'themselves' is over-estimating their own abilities.
>(and/or charging themselves points for things they shouldnt be)
>
And I believe that PS: Lawyer, 14- doesn't cut it to describe the
professional with a masters degree and years of experience, contacts, and
complimentary skills.
| David A. Fair
Think Different | SDS International
| dfair@sdslink.com
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 97 07:26:27 -0500
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <DFair@sdslink.com>
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> Quite possibly. Also, quite possibly not. For instance, I _like_
>that 1d6 EB, does no BOD, does no stun, does no KB (SFX-Flashlight).
>Cheap and it works.
>
>
Except that it's not a flashlight, it's a flash bulb (like on a camera).
EB, as a normal power, is defined as having to effect three senses, I'll
go out on a limb and assume Sight, Hearing (fainter than all get out),
and radio.
EB, as an instant power, is only long enough to hit (or miss) the target.
Now you've got a flashbulb (instant), so you've got to add 0 END,
Constant & a lim of say "Needs New Batteries every 5 hours of use, -1".
Plus, using it requires an attack action?
Why not a CE:Light, OAF:Flashlight?
| David A. Fair
Think Different | SDS International
| dfair@sdslink.com
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 97 07:36:38 -0500
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <DFair@sdslink.com>
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>> >A perfect solution, since most of the time, buying every last skill doesn't
>> >really enhance game play any.
>
> Yeah.
>
>If you want detailed skill lists, you go to Fuzion or GURPS.
>If you want difficulty levels with it, go to GURPS.
>
>Champions started out as a 4 color Super Hero RPG. And this is where it works
>best.
>It's never been good for serious or detailed genres.
<Sarcasm On>
Yeah, forget trying to play any genre other than superheroes with HERO
System. Who could possibly have fun playing a game without superpowers.
Why do think they stopped making stuff for _Justice, Inc_ and _Danger
International_?
<Sarcasm Off>
| David A. Fair
Think Different | SDS International
| dfair@sdslink.com
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 97 07:47:08 -0500
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <DFair@sdslink.com>
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>I've been following this thread closely and I think that either I
>overestimate the value of skills in champions or other people
>underestimate them. I've been playing since '84 and I think that 2
>or 3 points in a skill is a big deal. It represents a fairly significant
>level of expertise.
>
>For example, a practising lawyer would have PS: Lawyer (11-) and
>PERK: Law license. That's it. For those three point a character would
>have to spend 3 or 4 years in an undergraduate program, three years
>in law school, at year articling, and pass their bar exam. It would
>take that character 8 years to get those three points.
>
Lets hope to god that he also has Persuasion, Oratory, KS:California
Penal Code (or other specialty) or he would never win a case.
<LONG SNIPPAGE>
>A SKILL THAT WILL NEVER BE USED DURING THE COURSE OF PLAY SHOULD NOT COST
>POINTS. It can easily be included in a character's background.
Corallary: A SKILL THAT WILL BE USED DURING THE COURSE OF PLAY SHOULD
COST POINTS. If the lawyer character above will never actually role-play
being a lawyer, then fine, he's Clarance Darrow. If, OTOH, he will spend
a couple of panels every few issues (once every 3-5 gaming sessions) in a
three-piece suit arguing his breifs, then he should be able to back it up
with points spent.
>I encourage my players to spend about 50 points in skills. As a GM I
>want their characters to be hyper-competent. I want them to be top
>experts in their fields. I want them to have complementary skills. I
>want them to be like comic book or movie characters (Move over Buckaroo,
>I'm a rock musician, brain surgeon, particle physicist, and top criminal
>lawyer.) I also want them to have some quirky knowledge skills that I
>can use as hooks to drag them into a scenario or make them centre of an
>adventure (Good thing you know so much about baseball cards Captain
>Trivia, or we never would have made it across the American lines.) But I
>don't want them to spend points to detail every trivial fact of their
>existence (It's OK Bob, you don't have to buy familiarity with toothbushes
>to maintain good oral hygiene.) For that I have them type up
>descriptions and backgrounds. That is where they put all the stuff that
>isn't worth point but helps round out the character and make it seem real.
I also encourage spending points on skills, esoteric KS's, AK's, & such
make wonderful plot hooks. I just think that to properly reflect the time
spent in something as difficult as a license to practise law, you should
buy complementary skills & KS's as appropriate. IMC, these are all
considered vital aspects of being a lawyer, and help to differentiate
between the different lawyers you might meet.
| David A. Fair
Think Different | SDS International
| dfair@sdslink.com
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 08:34:24 -0500 (EST)
From: aregalad@umiami.ir.miami.edu
Subject: Re: Champions Campaign Themes
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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> Here's a short list of
>
>
> Campaign Themes
>
> Protectors of Earth - These heroes are responsible for protecting
> earth and it's inhabitants. They are the earth's first defense
> against alien invasions, space monsters, and other world shaking
> threats.
>
> Law Enforcers - These heroes are agents of the government who
> maintain the peace, and enforce the law. These heroes have the
> santion of their government.
>
> Vigilantes - These "heroes" are citizens who take justice into their
> own hands, and met out punishment as they see fit.
>
> Specialists - These heroes handle special cases that require unique
> skills and talents to handle. These heroes deal with those threats
> that the usual hero can't handle. A covert operations team, or a
> supernatural investigations and elimination team would qualify.
>
> Social Activists - These heroes are trying to change society. They
> are trying to promote social, legal, and/or political change in the
> community they live in.
>
> Minority Front - These heroes are members of a minority who's first
> interest is the protection, and advancement of the group they
> represent. These heroes might be mutants, aliens, or a human minority
> group.
Hmmm...
I have two games going right now - a Golden Age campaign and a Silver Age
campaign.
Our Golden Age team has been brought together by a mysterious
sorceror/being from another dimension to help prevent the spreading of
evil on a cosmic scale. The nature of this threat is not fully understood,
but it apparently has something to do with a series of mystic artifacts
and the Nazis. The heroes do all sorts of adventures, but these theme will
is ever present and will become more pronounced as the campaign
progresses. I guess this makes them Protectors of Earth by your
definitions, but it is of a more specific nature.
Our Silver Age campaign may offer an addition to your list - Seekers of
the Unknown. Our team shares a motivation with the Challengers of the
Unknown or the Fantastic Four in that the core members of the group
basically go and explore the unexplored either out of curiosity or for the
sake of science. Again, they do all sorts of other stuff too (different
members have different goals), but this is their original drive and
purpose.
Take care,
Dragonfly
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 06:40:48 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Campaign Themes
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 07:44 AM 11/25/97 -500, Vance Scott wrote:
>Campaign Themes
>
>Protectors of Earth - These heroes are responsible for protecting
>earth and it's inhabitants. They are the earth's first defense
>against alien invasions, space monsters, and other world shaking
>threats.
>
>Law Enforcers - These heroes are agents of the government who
>maintain the peace, and enforce the law. These heroes have the
>santion of their government.
>
>Vigilantes - These "heroes" are citizens who take justice into their
>own hands, and met out punishment as they see fit.
>
>Specialists - These heroes handle special cases that require unique
>skills and talents to handle. These heroes deal with those threats
>that the usual hero can't handle. A covert operations team, or a
>supernatural investigations and elimination team would qualify.
>
>Social Activists - These heroes are trying to change society. They
>are trying to promote social, legal, and/or political change in the
>community they live in.
>
>Minority Front - These heroes are members of a minority who's first
>interest is the protection, and advancement of the group they
>represent. These heroes might be mutants, aliens, or a human minority
>group.
There are two additions that I can think of.
Professionals - These are the classic "Heroes For Hire" type who do their
work for a price. They work within the law, and might sometimes capture
criminals just to be good citizens, but they normally work as private
investigators, security guards, or in similar functions.
Corporate Heroes - These are similar to the Professionals, except that they
work for a corporation and have the duty of protecting that corporation's
interests. How often those interests coincide with the public welfare
depends, of course, on the corporation.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 06:45:10 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Ranged Martial Arts
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At 09:51 AM 11/23/97 -0600, Jeff Hebert wrote:
>Wind Dragon is a martial artist who can control the winds to do his
>bidding. He wants to be able to use the winds to strike at opponents at a
>distance with his precise martial strikes and throws.
>
>Is it allowable to use martial arts at range? Specifically, the following
>two scenarios have been proposed by the player:
>
>(1) Stretching, with the special effect of the winds reaching out and
>smacking around opponents.
>
>(2) TK with fine control, same special effect.
Well, according to TUMA, to simulate a martial arts maneuver at range
(specifically one with this Special Effect) one should use Energy Blast
with a number of dice equal to the desired attack.
>I lean towards allowing the stretching, since the BBB says that is the way
>you buy range on strength. TK just gives too much range.
If excessive range is a problem, apply the Reduced by Range Limitation.
>Apologies if this issue has already been beaten to death by the list before
>I joined. Then again, what *hasn't* already been beaten to death by this
>list? :-)
Well, Barney hasn't. He keeps moving.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:00:16 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> EB, as an instant power, is only long enough to hit (or miss) the target.
> Now you've got a flashbulb (instant), so you've got to add 0 END,
> Constant & a lim of say "Needs New Batteries every 5 hours of use, -1".
True, but the New Batteries lim isn't worth that much, maybe, if
generous, a -1/4.
> Plus, using it requires an attack action?
Sure. You gotta turn the thing on and point it, in either order.
Sounds a lot like an attack focus to me.
> Why not a CE:Light, OAF:Flashlight?
I'd think the EB would probably come out a bit cheaper, over all.
The CE has the +5 per range doubling problem to cope with.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:36:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Mikhael Bornstein - AERE/W94 <mbornste@acs.ryerson.ca>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, David Fair wrote:
> >I've been following this thread closely and I think that either I
> >overestimate the value of skills in champions or other people
> >underestimate them. I've been playing since '84 and I think that 2
> >or 3 points in a skill is a big deal. It represents a fairly significant
> >level of expertise.
> >
> >For example, a practising lawyer would have PS: Lawyer (11-) and
> >PERK: Law license. That's it. For those three point a character would
> >have to spend 3 or 4 years in an undergraduate program, three years
> >in law school, at year articling, and pass their bar exam. It would
> >take that character 8 years to get those three points.
> >
> Lets hope to god that he also has Persuasion, Oratory, KS:California
> Penal Code (or other specialty) or he would never win a case.
He could win cases if most lawyers have PS: Lawyer (11-) and KS: Law
(11-). An above average lawyer would have those extra skills.
>
> <LONG SNIPPAGE>
>
> >A SKILL THAT WILL NEVER BE USED DURING THE COURSE OF PLAY SHOULD NOT COST
> >POINTS. It can easily be included in a character's background.
>
> Corallary: A SKILL THAT WILL BE USED DURING THE COURSE OF PLAY SHOULD
> COST POINTS. If the lawyer character above will never actually role-play
> being a lawyer, then fine, he's Clarance Darrow. If, OTOH, he will spend
> a couple of panels every few issues (once every 3-5 gaming sessions) in a
> three-piece suit arguing his breifs, then he should be able to back it up
> with points spent.
>
> >I encourage my players to spend about 50 points in skills. As a GM I
<<<<< Snip, Snip >>>>>
> >isn't worth point but helps round out the character and make it seem real.
>
> I also encourage spending points on skills, esoteric KS's, AK's, & such
> make wonderful plot hooks. I just think that to properly reflect the time
> spent in something as difficult as a license to practise law, you should
> buy complementary skills & KS's as appropriate. IMC, these are all
> considered vital aspects of being a lawyer, and help to differentiate
> between the different lawyers you might meet.
>
> | David A. Fair
> Think Different | SDS International
> | dfair@sdslink.com
Most GM's will go through their player's character sheets looking for
limitations and disadvantages to exploit. I know good GM's will also look
for skills or powers that haven't been used recently. If a player has
paid points for it, I try to make an effort to use it during a game. If
I can, use that skill or power to make the character the centre
of an adventure. However, I don't really need more that 1 or 2 hooks per
character.
I also think that the Hero system gives you character write ups for most
normal people. That's what the normal, skilled normal, and competent
normal write-ups are. That's why 150 point character's are super-agents
and 250 point character's are superhero's.
Mikhael
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:54:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Mikhael Bornstein - AERE/W94 <mbornste@acs.ryerson.ca>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing up yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
David,
If I'm following this thread correctly it seems to me that you have a
master's degree in electrical engineering, 15+ years of military
experience (including combat experience and fighter pilot training),
and spent a significant time working as a network administrator, hotel
manager, and talk-radio DJ. You've suggested a number of contacts and
other skills you seem to think are worth points.
It sounds like you are the sort of person who might take 100 points to
write up in champions. Anyone who has combat experience will cost a lot
of points because combat skills are more expensive.
It doesn't sound like you represent the typical professional or average
electrical engineer. I think I would throw you in with those navy seals,
green berets, and swat team members that take 150 points to write up.
Mikhael
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, David Fair wrote:
>
> I am not sure this reached the list the first time I sent it.
>
>
> On 11/21/97 9:18 AM, Todd Hanson (badtodd@hotmail.com) Said:
> >If you can dig this up, I would be interested in seeing it.
> >
> I'll look around at home.
>
> >What do you consider 'combat driving' and 'combat piloting'? Unless
> >you've had extensive training/experience driving and flying while in a
> >combat situation, these would be covered already by your transport
> >familiarities.
> >
> I have been in combat flying A-10 Thunderbolts (5 Years AF, 7 Air
> National Guard, active duty during Desert Storm). I have been in
> simulated combat in T-38's, F-16's and F-15's. I have driven in combat
> situations Humvees, Jeep and other ground support vehicles.
> >
> >Okay, Transport familarities: Ground vehicles for 2 pts and probably 1
> >pt for planes (or 2 pts if you also learned helicopters), another 2 pts
> >for small arms, maybe a pt or 2 in uncommon if you've learned grenade
> >launchers etc. This is still only 5-8 pts to cover just about anything
> >earth based (or did you train at area 51?)
> >
> There is no way that 1 point should cover all aircraft. They are simply
> too different (especially in combat). There is no way I could fly a
> SR-71, a DC-9, a 747, or a U-2. Those big planes are vastly different
> than flying a small fighter. One point doesn't even cover the
> familiarity with the weapons systems of these planes, which not only vary
> from airframe to airframe, but varies on a given airframe depending on
> the mission. An F-15c pilot may need to learn to use 5 auxiliary systems
> and 5 weapons systems just to qualify for full flight status, and even
> then he's not checked out for the F-15d!
>
> >I'm assuming you have quite a few points tied up in home and car..
> >unless you consider yourself a superhero, you don't pay points for
> >those.
> >
> That's true, but we were writing oursleves up as humans who were about to
> be superheros, so that's why they were in there.
>
> >As for the skills, you'd be surprised at how few skills most jobs
> >actually require.. and most of those will be at the familiarity level.
> >Most hobbies wouldnt even be something that you would pay points for
> >(KS:Stamp collecting? KS:Hero Rules?). As for contacts, I would bet
> >that most of them are merely aquaintances.
> >
> Well, I was thinking of Bow Hunting (which needs a weapon familiarity,
> btw), coaching pony league baseball, and the time I spend as a lacrosse
> referee. All KS & a few complimentary skills (persuasion & oratory come
> to mind).
> As for contacts, they are. These are people who I served with/under &
> worked with/for. They have gotten me jobs, they have influence in the
> military, etc. The president of the company I currently work for was my
> squadron commander in Aviano, IT. He retired from the AF as a 1-Star
> General, worked 10 years inside the Pentagon & now owns a AF Contracting
> company that, among other things, helps write defense department policy
> and startegy. Knowing him (and working 50 feet away from him) definately
> counts as a contact. Another would be my old boss from the days as a DJ.
> He is a well known local (CBS) TV reporter now (though not the lead
> anchor) and lives less than 3 blocks away from me. I see him at least
> once a week.
> >
> >I still maintain my position that anybody who spends a large amount of
> >points building 'themselves' is over-estimating their own abilities.
> >(and/or charging themselves points for things they shouldnt be)
> >
> And I believe that PS: Lawyer, 14- doesn't cut it to describe the
> professional with a masters degree and years of experience, contacts, and
> complimentary skills.
>
> | David A. Fair
> Think Different | SDS International
> | dfair@sdslink.com
>
>
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Strength
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:27:05 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> h > was complaining about Hero bricks being able to lift more
> h > than they should when
> h > made at the same power level of the non-brick characters.
> h > A person who feels that way is better using a system like GURPS
> h > where the brick will be on power
> h > with the other PC's without having a very high lifting capacity.
>
> Not at all, if you want a brick with a relatively low lifting capacity
> but competative damage in Champions just tack on a simple martial
> arts package (like boxing - hardly looks different than what the
> supers are doing already). If you want a really strong brick just
> get him the STR (if you want him to be a skilled combatant, too,
> buy levels instead of martial arts). If you want a *really* strong
> brick by extra STR for Lifting & throwing distances, but not damage.
>
> If you're concerned about playing just the character you want,
> play Champions.
Or GURPS or V&V or DC Heroes. All of which have equal flexability
in what you can make.
Just diferent emphasis, diferent sub-genre.
GURPS is gritty
V&V is early 80's, late 70's post silver age
DC Heroes is four color
Champions is Silver Age or modern, non-gritty.
All of these systems can do the other genres, just all of them do their
own genre better than the others do.
If you own ALL of these RPG's, as I do, then you can dispute this.
But if all you have is Hero, or one or two on the list, or even all without
also owning several of the suppliments, then you're lacking grounds to base
your view on.
I own and have used 90% of what's available for all 4 of the systems
above. All for at least 8 years. I know what they contain. You can tell me you
like Hero, but you can't tell me it's better at EVERYTHING until you can make the
same claim of knowledge about the other systems as well.
GURPS does do a better job for doing a game than goes into heavy detail.
It also does a better job of doing strength's which are limited in lift, yet still
high on damage.
And it has all the martial arts, and more. All the lims and advs of hero
plus several Hero lacks (like richocet).
Personally I still use Hero. I prefer the flavor it was built for.
But I don't think it's the end all system, and I admit to where it fails.
Rook
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:27:05 +0000 (GMT)
X-To: hero-l@october.com
X-Cc: hero-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Strength
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: shell.infinex.com ip 207.201.8.250
X-Smtp-Mail-From: rook@shell.infinex.com
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
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> h > was complaining about Hero bricks being able to lift more
> h > than they should when
> h > made at the same power level of the non-brick characters.
> h > A person who feels that way is better using a system like GURPS
> h > where the brick will be on power
> h > with the other PC's without having a very high lifting capacity.
>
> Not at all, if you want a brick with a relatively low lifting capacity
> but competative damage in Champions just tack on a simple martial
> arts package (like boxing - hardly looks different than what the
> supers are doing already). If you want a really strong brick just
> get him the STR (if you want him to be a skilled combatant, too,
> buy levels instead of martial arts). If you want a *really* strong
> brick by extra STR for Lifting & throwing distances, but not damage.
>
> If you're concerned about playing just the character you want,
> play Champions.
Or GURPS or V&V or DC Heroes. All of which have equal flexability
in what you can make.
Just diferent emphasis, diferent sub-genre.
GURPS is gritty
V&V is early 80's, late 70's post silver age
DC Heroes is four color
Champions is Silver Age or modern, non-gritty.
All of these systems can do the other genres, just all of them do their
own genre better than the others do.
If you own ALL of these RPG's, as I do, then you can dispute this.
But if all you have is Hero, or one or two on the list, or even all without
also owning several of the suppliments, then you're lacking grounds to base
your view on.
I own and have used 90% of what's available for all 4 of the systems
above. All for at least 8 years. I know what they contain. You can tell me you
like Hero, but you can't tell me it's better at EVERYTHING until you can make the
same claim of knowledge about the other systems as well.
GURPS does do a better job for doing a game than goes into heavy detail.
It also does a better job of doing strength's which are limited in lift, yet still
high on damage.
And it has all the martial arts, and more. All the lims and advs of hero
plus several Hero lacks (like richocet).
Personally I still use Hero. I prefer the flavor it was built for.
But I don't think it's the end all system, and I admit to where it fails.
Rook
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:35:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Strength
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Christopher Taylor writes:
> Because they damage the opponents similarly, and I think Champions players
> really lose track of just how strong even 30 STR is. Strength does a lot
> of different things, including jump and the ability to hold someone in
> your arms, not ALL kinds of strength neccessarily include each of strength's
> benefits.
Why is it a problem that they damage the opponents similarly? Just scale up
the overall power level of the game if you want to match the appearance of such
things as high-level Marvel and DC characters. As an earlier post mentioned,
energy projectors such as Cyclops are _also_ doing 15-18 dice (based on
displayed ability to damage inanimate objects).
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:36:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Mikhael Bornstein - AERE/W94 <mbornste@acs.ryerson.ca>
Subject: Fractional accounting
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
If familiarity (8-) in champions is meant to be the equivalent of an
university degree then it becomes impossible to represent the level of
detail that some members in the list want on their character sheets.
It has been suggested that adding points to characters isn't the solution
because it changes the relative values of skills and powers.
I have a suggestion. It wouldn't be exceptionally difficult to introduce
fractions of points into the hero system. Here is an example.
Cost Skill Level Academic Equivalent Real World Equivalent
2 11- Uni. degree + exp. 6-7 years
1 8- University degree 4 years
.5 5- University minor 1 -2 years
.25 3- university course 3-6 months
So, a university graduate majoring in sociology with minors in economics,
english lit, and chemistry would have to spent 2.5 points.
If, for some obscure reason, that person wanted to calculate the price
elasticity of high tech energy weapons during a firefight with viper
their chance of success would be slim [(5-)-2 (non-combat skill in
combat)=3-]
But if that person went to their university's excellent economics
library, and planned to spend a whole day their, then they would have a
fair chance of success [(5-) +3 (good equipment, university library) + 2
(extra time) + 2 (easy task for an economist) = 12-]
fractional accounting would allow players to have more detail on their
character sheets without changing the skill to powers point ratio.
Comments?
Mikhael
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:37:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Mikhael Bornstein - AERE/W94 <mbornste@acs.ryerson.ca>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sat, 22 Nov 1997, Eric Pawtowski wrote:
> >
> > It's not that champions underestimates
> > all the work that goes into becoming a licensed professional. It is just
> > that almost any skill in champions represents a huge commitment in terms
>
> Actually, it's taht Champions places a premium on skills and abilities
> that are needed for personal combat, and is pretty cheap for anything
> else. You only need ten or fifteen points to be fabuliously rich,
> for example, but that won't buy you much of an energy blast.
>
> Eric
>
Absolutely, That's why for 5 or 6 points you can be a lawyer but it would
take at least 13 points to get a black belt.
Mikhael
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Strength
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:52:02 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> >
> >Hm...it was hard to tell, they still didn't fight 'agents' too much. I guess
> >Marvel characters from the 60s and 70s weren't all that powerful
>
> Other than AIM and minions of Mole Man, no. Actually as I read comics it
> doesnt seem that agents really are as high profile as their are in Champions.
>
Yeah; I've noticed this too. But then I've been running Champions since 1985
and I've only used agents once. In the first game I ran; before I became a comic book
reader.
And those agents where just fill in. Along to drive the getaway vehicle of the villians
and guard the door of the bank while the villians robbed it.
Rook --- Incoherent Thinking Specialist
Also known as Arcady on #herochat, #Fuzionchat, #gurps, #V&V,
and #SuperHeroChat in DALnet IRC
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 10:43:59 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 09:35 AM 11/24/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Christopher Taylor writes:
>
>> Because they damage the opponents similarly, and I think Champions players
>> really lose track of just how strong even 30 STR is. Strength does a lot
>> of different things, including jump and the ability to hold someone in
>> your arms, not ALL kinds of strength neccessarily include each of strength's
>> benefits.
>
>Why is it a problem that they damage the opponents similarly? Just scale up
>the overall power level of the game if you want to match the appearance of such
>things as high-level Marvel and DC characters. As an earlier post mentioned,
>energy projectors such as Cyclops are _also_ doing 15-18 dice (based on
>displayed ability to damage inanimate objects).
Well unlike some of the people running games here I run lower powered stuff,
and I am uncomfortable with people having 100 active point powers. a 12D6
blast will kill a normal with one shot, you get more than that and agents
will be slaughtered, not stopped.
The escalation in power level is, to me, absurd, case in point the agents in
Genocide... these guys are superheros in my game, not agents, for crying out
loud, agents should be trouble for cops, but not totally overwhelm them.
I guess I just like heroes to be more like the old comics, not like Image's
all powerful Gods that take mega crossover cataclysmic events to challenge them.
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 10:47:23 -0800
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
Subject: Re: Marvel Conversions: Doctor Doom
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-> From filkhero@usa.net Sun Nov 23 03:51:51 1997
->
-> I've seen Doom's face. His "horribly scarred face" has a single scar
-> two inches long on one cheek. He's just psychotic about it.
->
I think you are misremembering here. In Doom's original origin story
he was horribly scarred by his extra-dimensional experiment (the
one where Reed looked at his calculations and pointed out some
errors that may or may not have been actual errors depending on
who you believe). After the accident he traveled, and ended up
with some mystics in the far east. He built the first version of
his armor and the faceplate, still hot from the forge was put on his
face.
In Byrne's retcon Doom received only a small scar from the
extra-dimensional experiment, but his face was ruined by the red-hot
faceplate.
Either way, Doom is horribly scarred today. This has been confirmed
numerous times when Doom revealed his face (always at an angle where
we couldn't see it) and in close ups where we could see the flesh
around his eyes.
-Sam
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:03:30 -0800
From: Samuel.Bell@Eng.Sun.COM (Sam Bell)
Subject: Re: Strength
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-> From ctaylor@cyberis.net Mon Nov 24 10:45:54 1997
->
-> Well unlike some of the people running games here I run lower powered stuff,
-> and I am uncomfortable with people having 100 active point powers. a 12D6
-> blast will kill a normal with one shot, you get more than that and agents
-> will be slaughtered, not stopped.
How is it that a 12d6 blast kills a normal with one shot? Do normals in your
campaign have 5 Body? Or did you mean that a 12d6 blast could put a normal
into critical condition in one shot?
If your superheroes are slaughtering agents, I think it is a problem with
the "Heroes", not the power level.
-> The escalation in power level is, to me, absurd, case in point the agents in
-> Genocide... these guys are superheros in my game, not agents, for crying out
-> loud, agents should be trouble for cops, but not totally overwhelm them.
If the cops (and the army) can handle the agents, who needs superheroes?
-> I guess I just like heroes to be more like the old comics, not like Image's
-> all powerful Gods that take mega crossover cataclysmic events to challenge them.
Yeah, give me those old, reasonable superheroes like Pre-Crisis Superman, the Silver
Surfer, Green Lantern, Spectre, Thor, Dr Fate...
Image comics is guilty on many counts, but I don't think they upped the power
level any. How could they, when most of their characters were clones of Marvel/DC
characters?
-Sam
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:13:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Strength
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Christopher Taylor writes:
> Well unlike some of the people running games here I run lower powered
> stuff, and I am uncomfortable with people having 100 active point powers.
> a 12D6 blast will kill a normal with one shot, you get more than that and
> agents will be slaughtered, not stopped.
Hm...I'm not convinced I've ever seen an agent who took more than one hit to
take down. For that matter, I can't remember the last time I saw any of the
high-powered characters in Marvel or DC even _fight_ agents (at least, human
agents) -- agents are usually reserved for the street-level characters. I'll
agree that people like Captain America and Spiderman and Daredevil (three
people who frequently fight agents) aren't doing 15-20 dice, but they're also
pretty far down on the raw power scale.
>
> The escalation in power level is, to me, absurd, case in point the agents
> in Genocide... these guys are superheros in my game, not agents, for
> crying out loud, agents should be trouble for cops, but not totally
> overwhelm them.
For a high level game, just don't use agents.
>
> I guess I just like heroes to be more like the old comics, not like Image's
> all powerful Gods that take mega crossover cataclysmic events to challenge
> them.
What old comics would you be thinking of? Superman? Wonder Woman? The Legion
of Superheroes? The Avengers? The Defenders? The Fantastic Four? None of
those people have fought (or, at least, been physically challenged by) 'normal'
criminals in decades. To be honest, Image characters tend to be less powerful
than the high-level Marvel and DC characters (excluding Supreme and its
offshoots, which are the DC universe, thinly disguised).
X-Originating-IP: [206.88.2.1]
From: "Todd Hanson" <badtodd@hotmail.com>
Subject: acronym help
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:33:32 CST
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Okay, I'm going to warn you that this request is going to sound sexist
and non-politically correct. If this type of things offends you, don't
read the rest of this. (god, I hate that I even have to say that)
Anyway, I need a little help coming up with an acronym for a
supervillian team. This will be for a one-shot adventure, and played
mostly for laughs (and a reason to have a senseless combat with old
friends I see once a year).
The team is a group of women supers who are very 'anti-male' - they
aren't out for money, power or fame, but to protest things that they
consider to be sexist, male-elitist, or degrading to women. Their
typical 'crimes' would be trashing a construction site because some of
the workers whistled at them as they walked past (in their secret IDs).
In this scenario, they will be holding BOTH footballs teams hostage at
the Superbowl - protesting that football glorifies violence, only allows
women to participate by dancing on the sidelines in skimpy costumes,
etc...
Now.. for the acronym. These women have an attitude, and have purposely
chosen a name that will annoy men. I want something along the lines of
'BITCH' or 'PMS'... or something similar, but I want the team name to be
an acronym. So far I've come up with 'Better Intelligent Than...', or
'Better Independant Than...' but I'm having trouble finishing.
Anybody out there want to take a stab at this one?
Todd
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Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:34:27 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: Bryce Berggren <ghost@softfarm.com>
To: champ-l@omg.org <champ-l@omg.org>
On Friday, November 21, 1997 1:25 PM, Bryce Berggren wrote:
<snip>
>
>It's like Long's suggestion somewhere of KB with the limitation that
>it only prevents the damage, not the actual knocking back. Sure, this
>technically is playable from a purely theoretical standpoint, but it
>makes more sense to buy extra PD against Knockback, since it's
specifically
>/meant/ to prevent damage.
Absolutely correct. And as soon as I find a power that is specifically
for reducing density, I'll be glad to drop all ideas of "no-size
shrinking".
Filksinger
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
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Date: 24 Nov 1997 16:07:15 -0500
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>>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:
MS> Rat, that has to be the biggest load of crap I have ever seen. Those
MS> are modifers for Skills, not CVs. What skill is the character using to
MS> his his target?
Weapon Familiarity: small arms/rifle.
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Mail-Copies-To: never
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Date: 24 Nov 1997 16:19:01 -0500
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>>>>> "CT" == Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net> writes:
CT> I have long thought the perfect combat system would simulate baseball
CT> smoothly, its heinous to figure out in hero.
Not.
You are looking at baseball as combat rather than the Professional Skill:
Baseball Player.
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
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>>>>> "GS" == Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org> writes:
GS> Specifics are irrelevant; IMO, picking a power and limiting down to the
GS> effects you want is nearly always* a valid technique in Hero.
GS> Geoff Speare
GS> * "nearly always": subject to the standard Hero caveat "except when it
GS> creates serious point imbalances"
When you use limitations to eliminate 3/4 of a power's functions, I think
you have gone beyond the point of "serious point imbalance", especially
when most of what you have left is something that could be accomplished
with judicious use of another power.
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Fractional accounting
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Date: 24 Nov 1997 16:29:23 -0500
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>>>>> "MB" == Mikhael Bornstein <- AERE/W94 <mbornste@acs.ryerson.ca>>
>>>>> writes:
MB> If familiarity (8-) in champions is meant to be the equivalent of an
MB> university degree then it becomes impossible to represent the level of
MB> detail that some members in the list want on their character sheets.
Well, it is not. 11- is considered "professional"; you could hold down a
job with an 11- skill. Remember, most skills used out of combat time will
get significant bonuses for the extra time taken to perform them.
8- is "casual knowledge", or a hobby.
12- to 14- is for someone who has significant experience using that skill
on a regular basis in a professional or equivalent capacity. Few will go
beyond this level, most tending to branch out with a variety supporting
skills.
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
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Date: 24 Nov 1997 16:58:04 -0500
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>>>>> "F" == Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> writes:
F> Absolutely correct. And as soon as I find a power that is specifically
F> for reducing density, I'll be glad to drop all ideas of "no-size
F> shrinking".
Back up. Stop looking at what the powers are called, and ask, what
*EFFECTS* are you trying to achieve by "reducing density"? Then tell the
rest of us what those effects are.
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Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:04:30 -0500
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: Non shrinking shrinking
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> When you use limitations to eliminate 3/4 of a power's functions, I think
> you have gone beyond the point of "serious point imbalance", especially
> when most of what you have left is something that could be accomplished
> with judicious use of another power.
Are you saying that using Shrinking to get Density Decrease is abusively cost
effective?
Geoff Speare
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:18:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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On 24 Nov 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> >>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:
>
> MS> Rat, that has to be the biggest load of crap I have ever seen. Those
> MS> are modifers for Skills, not CVs. What skill is the character using to
> MS> his his target?
>
> Weapon Familiarity: small arms/rifle.
Which doesn't have a SKILL ROLL! How can you give skill modifers to
something that doesn't have a skill roll to begin with? The section on
Skill Modifers itself says that not all Skill will get the modifers and
that the modiers might not be able to be applied to a particular skill.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:19:11 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Fractional accounting
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> I have a suggestion. It wouldn't be exceptionally difficult to introduce
> fractions of points into the hero system. Here is an example.
But it would be very, very messy. As well as pointless. Any
level less than 8- is just about useless.
> Cost Skill Level Academic Equivalent Real World Equivalent
>
> 2 11- Uni. degree + exp. 6-7 years
Maybe. But I'd give 11- to a straight University degree -- in the
main area of the topic. With real-world experience I'd simply add a PS.
> 1 8- University degree 4 years
Low student. Better students get the 11-. Some wouldn't even get
that.
> .5 5- University minor 1 -2 years
>
> .25 3- university course 3-6 months
Messy and uneccesary. Give an 8- if someone wants to stress a
minor or two.
>
> fractional accounting would allow players to have more detail on their
> character sheets without changing the skill to powers point ratio.
Way too awkward to be workable. I'd rather go with the Men In
Black RPG example and allow "Useless skills". These can be anything from
tying a cherry stem with a tongue to knowing everything there is to know
about the Chicago Improv Scene. Allow 5 for free, +5 for every point
spent and assume all rolls at 8- or 11-. There, you got depth for the
things that don't matter. To be nice, try to let one of the useless
skills be useful about once every year or so.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:25:31 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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> Well unlike some of the people running games here I run lower powered stuff,
> and I am uncomfortable with people having 100 active point powers. a 12D6
> blast will kill a normal with one shot, you get more than that and agents
> will be slaughtered, not stopped.
Um. Ever heard of using less than full power? It happens all the
time, both in game and in the Comic Book sources.
> The escalation in power level is, to me, absurd, case in point the agents in
> Genocide... these guys are superheros in my game, not agents, for crying out
> loud, agents should be trouble for cops, but not totally overwhelm them.
I totally disagree. When compared to the power level of the rest
of that book, those Agents are totally outclassed. Part of their problem
and expense, of course, is their large number of skills. Jeez. Why would
anyone pay points for skills? The only think I'd cut down is their levels
-- they hit a bit too often in my games.
> I guess I just like heroes to be more like the old comics, not like Image's
> all powerful Gods that take mega crossover cataclysmic events to challenge them.
Um. Read some more. If anything, power levels are *DOWN*. These
characters have always had high power levels if relative damage is looked
at, especially to the environment. I'd also say that most characters are
holding back their attacks against most opponents -- agents get KOed,
not killed (most of the time).
-Tim Gilberg
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 97 22:36:10
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Unusual character concepts : American Star
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sun, 23 Nov 1997 11:37:42 -0800, Rook wrote:
>Ok, since "Alone At Midnight" is doing it, I thought I'd try sending one
>of my 'hard to do in Hero' concepts.
> Maybe somebody here can find a better angle than I have for doing
>this.
>
>American Star is my old V&V character, She's never quite converted well
>for me.
>
> Yuri Inomata comes from an ancient Ninja family in Hiroshima. Her
>grandfather was the clans
>only survivor after the bombing in WWII. His daughter was her mother,
>his only child. She married an
>American GI of Apache descent and had two twin children; Yuri and her
>Brother.
>
> Yuri has the inborn power to alter the point from which gravity
>pulls her. She has so fine a control over
>this that she can stand on the tip of a single strand of hair.
Easy: Flight, with a few skill levels.
> She also
>has the ability to regenerate from any wound. She has even once
>recovered from being blown apart into tiny bit. As long as a single cell
>survives, so will she; given time.
Not so easy! At the risk of restarting the 'Immortality' thread, I'd
suggest Desolidification, not vs attacks which do 2xBODY (ie instant
obliteration), limited such that she appears to take damage normally.
Or you could use the Spirit rules.
> Her 'clan' heritage gives her access to Ninjitsu training and 6
>Mystic Shuriken, each embeded with the soul of one of her ancestors.
>They are capable of independant action and are not under her control so
>much as in cooperation and acting as her mentors.
Followers.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
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Date: 24 Nov 1997 18:54:50 -0500
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>>>>> "GS" == Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org> writes:
GS> Are you saying that using Shrinking to get Density Decrease is
GS> abusively cost effective?
I am saying that it is abusive, especially when one assumes that specific
effects are irrelevant when determining what power(s) to choose to achieve
desired effects.
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Mail-Copies-To: never
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Date: 24 Nov 1997 19:03:31 -0500
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>>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:
>> Weapon Familiarity: small arms/rifle.
MS> Which doesn't have a SKILL ROLL! How can you give skill modifers to
MS> something that doesn't have a skill roll to begin with?
Because a) it is a skill that is b) used in a nonstressed situation.
MS> The section on Skill Modifers itself says that not all Skill will get
MS> the modifers and that the modiers might not be able to be applied to a
MS> particular skill.
Yes, *MIGHT* not be able to be applied. Under normal use of Weapon
Familiarities -- in combat situations -- they would not apply. A firing
range is a completely different environment. Most importantly, the targets
are not shooting back. That makes a huge impact in a shooter's accuracy.
If you judiciously use the skill modifers you will get effective OCVs that
do come resonably close to what you need to get similar results in the real
world.
Because no marksman is going to consistantly have 8cm shot groups at 100
meters when the targets are firing back at him.
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X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:08:55 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
>Hm...I'm not convinced I've ever seen an agent who took more than one hit to
>take down.
Read the Genocide book for Champions.
>I'll agree that people like Captain America and Spiderman and Daredevil (three
>people who frequently fight agents) aren't doing 15-20 dice, but they're also
>pretty far down on the raw power scale.
And thats the power level I run, play, and am talking about. Write them up
some time, incidentally, and check their 'power level' heh heh...
>> I guess I just like heroes to be more like the old comics, not like Image's
>> all powerful Gods that take mega crossover cataclysmic events to challenge
>> them.
>What old comics would you be thinking of? Superman? Wonder Woman? The Legion
>of Superheroes? The Avengers? The Defenders? The Fantastic Four?
Yes, the Fantastic Four. You already listed characters above that are at
this power level (the FF are pretty cool, but until Byrne got to them were
not especially powerful, even with the Thing).
This really isn't that tough to understand, please try to restrain the knee
jerk sarcasm and think a little... most characters from older comics were
less powerful than characters today, case in point the XMen, who were fairly
modest in power, but are gods that walk the earth now.
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Mail-Copies-To: never
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>>>>> "O" == Opal <Opal@october.com> writes:
[...]
Or, to put it a bit more suscinctly, for myself, as a Unix systems
administrator, I would have the following skills:
PS: Systems Administrator 12-
Computer Programming 8-
The PS makes me pretty good at setting up and maintaining Unix boxes. I
don't need separate skills for the various "flavors" of Unix and Unix-alike
systems I am familiar with. Computer Programming at 8- gives me enough to
write simple scripts and such to make my job easier.
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X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:12:23 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: acronym help
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:33 PM 11/24/97 CST, you wrote:
>Okay, I'm going to warn you that this request is going to sound sexist
>and non-politically correct. If this type of things offends you, don't
>read the rest of this. (god, I hate that I even have to say that)
The hell with PC, its out dated anyway, thats early 90s crap, hopefully
people have grown up since then. I just use Womyn for mine, the
archfeminist alternate
spelling for Woman. They have schools they open for orphaned and abused
girls, teach them feminist dogma and such, sort of a dilemma for square
jawed manly heroes when they first show up, as they get a lot of wierd
publicity.
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:14:50 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>CT> I have long thought the perfect combat system would simulate baseball
>CT> smoothly, its heinous to figure out in hero.
>
>Not.
>
>You are looking at baseball as combat rather than the Professional Skill:
>Baseball Player.
I'm sorry, perhaps you could help me understand why this isnt hard. How do
you simulate someone hitting a baseball with a bat, or throwing to 2nd base
before the runner gets there? Please dont say PS rolls, this should be
possible to simulate in combat... its come up before, but not using those terms.
After all, the comment came up with someone trying to determine the DCV of a
baseball at 100 yards... try to hit a glove at 60'6" while curving the pitch...
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:37:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Strength
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Christopher Taylor writes:
> >Hm...I'm not convinced I've ever seen an agent who took more than one hit
> >to take down.
>
> Read the Genocide book for Champions.
Was referring to comic books, not Champions. IIRC the genocide agents were
notably annoying and stupid. My point was that many agents in Champions, in a
'standard' power game, require two hits to flatten, and that this isn't true in
the comics, which means either the agents are overpowered or the heroes are
underrated.
>
> >I'll agree that people like Captain America and Spiderman and Daredevil
> >(three people who frequently fight agents) aren't doing 15-20 dice, but
> >they're also pretty far down on the raw power scale.
>
> And thats the power level I run, play, and am talking about. Write them up
> some time, incidentally, and check their 'power level' heh heh...
Hm? Oh, their 'point level' is pretty grotesque, but their dice level isn't,
and that's what I meant by 'power level'.
>
> Yes, the Fantastic Four. You already listed characters above that are at
> this power level (the FF are pretty cool, but until Byrne got to them were
> not especially powerful, even with the Thing).
Hm...it was hard to tell, they still didn't fight 'agents' too much. I guess
Marvel characters from the 60s and 70s weren't all that powerful
You are, however, avoiding the question. The basic issue here was high
strength characters -- you gave characters extra strength, only for
lifting/whatever, which didn't apply to damage. None of the characters you
describe as 'reasonable' power level _need_ that much excess strength, none of
them are very strong. Thus, presumably if you want to have earthshaking feats
of strength, etc, you're talking about the _new_ versions of those characters
-- who legitimately should be doing 15-20 dice.
I don't have a problem with you running a game where 60 strength is strong --
just realize that you won't be pulling the earthshaking feats, because the
people who do those mighty feats generally have higher strength than 60.
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:02:58 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>>-> Well unlike some of the people running games here I run lower powered
stuff,
>>-> and I am uncomfortable with people having 100 active point powers. a 12D6
>>-> blast will kill a normal with one shot, you get more than that and agents
>>-> will be slaughtered, not stopped.
>>
>>How is it that a 12d6 blast kills a normal with one shot? Do normals in your
>>campaign have 5 Body? Or did you mean that a 12d6 blast could put a normal
>>into critical condition in one shot?
>
>ED 2, take 12 body = -2 BOD (since normals have 8's for stats in my world
except COM) ... that person is dead in 6 turns, which is longer than it
takes to go to the hospital. Thats what I mean, I guess that means critical
the way you define it.
>
>>If your superheroes are slaughtering agents, I think it is a problem with
>>the "Heroes", not the power level.
>
>No, its an example of power level, if you can totally vaporize a normal
with a stray shot, thats too powerful
>
>>-> The escalation in power level is, to me, absurd, case in point the
agents in
>>-> Genocide... these guys are superheros in my game, not agents, for
crying out
>>-> loud, agents should be trouble for cops, but not totally overwhelm them.
>>
>>If the cops (and the army) can handle the agents, who needs superheroes?
>
>You need superheroes to handle super VILLAINS, and help the cops against
agents... haven't you ever written up a cop? They end up over 50 points
themselves....
>
>>-> I guess I just like heroes to be more like the old comics, not like Image's
>>-> all powerful Gods that take mega crossover cataclysmic events to
challenge >->them.
>
>>Yeah, give me those old, reasonable superheroes like Pre-Crisis Superman,
the >Silver Surfer, Green Lantern, Spectre, Thor, Dr Fate...
>
>Actually, I meant (as you are well aware of, despite your sarcasm)
characters like the original XMen, Spiderman, Daredevil etc... guys that sit
out cosmic events.
>
>>Image comics is guilty on many counts, but I don't think they upped the power
>>level any. How could they, when most of their characters were clones of
Marvel/ >DC characters?
>
>Yes and no, they made clones, but made them more powerful... "this is my
Wolverine, but hes stronger, and regenerates faster, and carries a gun!"
>
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
X-Sender: ctaylor@pop.cyberis.net
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:08:19 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net>
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>> Read the Genocide book for Champions.
>
>Was referring to comic books, not Champions. IIRC the genocide agents were
>notably annoying and stupid. My point was that many agents in Champions, in a
>'standard' power game, require two hits to flatten, and that this isn't true in
>the comics, which means either the agents are overpowered or the heroes are
>underrated.
Right but I was talking about agents and characters in champions, and I
concur with your assessment of Genocide, but I'd expand it to the whole
book. Someone made a comment otherwise about powering down, but in my
experience making characters MORE powerful is easier than less so... and
since the default in the Champions rules is 250, one would assume its best
to build companion books that are within that rather than just toss it out
because they dont think people use that any more.
>Hm? Oh, their 'point level' is pretty grotesque, but their dice level isn't,
>and that's what I meant by 'power level'.
I know, I just thought that was interesting, how high thier cost is without
having the raw power.
>> Yes, the Fantastic Four. You already listed characters above that are at
>> this power level (the FF are pretty cool, but until Byrne got to them were
>> not especially powerful, even with the Thing).
>
>Hm...it was hard to tell, they still didn't fight 'agents' too much. I guess
>Marvel characters from the 60s and 70s weren't all that powerful
Other than AIM and minions of Mole Man, no. Actually as I read comics it
doesnt seem that agents really are as high profile as their are in Champions.
>You are, however, avoiding the question. The basic issue here was high
>strength characters -- you gave characters extra strength, only for
>lifting/whatever, which didn't apply to damage. None of the characters you
>describe as 'reasonable' power level _need_ that much excess strength, none of
>them are very strong. Thus, presumably if you want to have earthshaking feats
>of strength, etc, you're talking about the _new_ versions of those characters
>-- who legitimately should be doing 15-20 dice.
Well, what I was trying to show is that you can build a character that can
do outstanding stuff, while not doing 239486 dice when they hit... on the
whole, though lifting 100 tons is terrifyingly powerful, you can lift two
tanks over your head without real effort... you can dropkick a car a block,
I think champions players get jaded... 100 tons is a LOT.
----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
-----------------------------------------------------------
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:42:50 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sunday, November 23, 1997 8:31 AM, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
<snip>
>That
>brings his effective OCV up to 13. Adjust the inherent RMod of the
weapon
>up to something reasonable (+3 RMod or so, but not much more since
the
>M-16A2 is not a sniping weapon; a sniper's rifle should have upwards
of +10
>RMod) and you have something approximating reality.
Giving you a weapon that, without setting or bracing, will hit a
target at two and a half football fields away as easily as one close
enough to spit on. I have a small problem with that.
Personally, I haven't stopped using the original range modifier rules
from the old version of Champions. Not perfect, but this is one area
in which Champs definitely went downhill with the 4th Ed.
Filksinger
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:28:10 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> Back up. Stop looking at what the powers are called, and ask, what
> *EFFECTS* are you trying to achieve by "reducing density"? Then tell the
> rest of us what those effects are.
Hmmm. I want a character who is a little heavier and denser than
normal, this works out to him being harder to damage. His increased mass
also makes him stronger, pwerhaps a little STR, and also harder to move
around -- KB resist and/or clinging. Lets see, I guess you're trying to
make a point of buying some seperate powers for each effect. I guess the
above shows what someone who want to "increase density" really should buy
-- Increased defenses, STR, and KB resist.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:43:09 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Strength
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> Right but I was talking about agents and characters in champions, and I
> concur with your assessment of Genocide, but I'd expand it to the whole
> book. Someone made a comment otherwise about powering down, but in my
> experience making characters MORE powerful is easier than less so... and
> since the default in the Champions rules is 250, one would assume its best
> to build companion books that are within that rather than just toss it out
> because they dont think people use that any more.
Um. I've really got to disagree. I actually haven't seen much at
the 250 point level anymore. Most I see are around 300-350. Some might
be a lower level plus experience, but even then I've never seen a campaign
starting at less than 275.
The agents aren't bad, but as with anything need a bit of level
tweaking. Their DCs were workable in my campaign, but their CVs were a
little high. That's it. All that was required to make them effective and
dangerous (though not unbeatable) agents was to get rid of a few extra
combat levels.
> >Hm? Oh, their 'point level' is pretty grotesque, but their dice level isn't,
> >and that's what I meant by 'power level'.
>
> I know, I just thought that was interesting, how high thier cost is without
> having the raw power.
Your point? Most of the games I see are like this. Again, those
Genocide agents -- lots of skills. Lots and lots of skills. Most of the
PCs I see have lots of skills.
> Well, what I was trying to show is that you can build a character that can
> do outstanding stuff, while not doing 239486 dice when they hit... on the
> whole, though lifting 100 tons is terrifyingly powerful, you can lift two
> tanks over your head without real effort... you can dropkick a car a block,
> I think champions players get jaded... 100 tons is a LOT.
And again, I don't agree. We see large boulders and chunks of
rock being tossed, with little effort, large distances. We see Buses
being picked up and tossed a few blocks, maybe more. These are very large
weights to deal with -- they require a high STR. Now, not every brick
will have this. Heck, most I see are only around 50 STR and add MA
packages or whatever. I do have one that, with absorbtion, is up to about
77 STR. One or two NPC bricks are at 80 or 85. And of course, there's
Grond at 90.
-Tim Gilberg
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Mail-Copies-To: never
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Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 24 Nov 1997 22:08:56 -0500
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "TRG" == Tim R Gilberg <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu> writes:
TRG> Hmmm. I want a character who is a little heavier and denser than
TRG> normal, this works out to him being harder to damage. His increased
TRG> mass also makes him stronger, pwerhaps a little STR, and also harder
TRG> to move around -- KB resist and/or clinging. Lets see, I guess you're
TRG> trying to make a point of buying some seperate powers for each effect.
Mostly because a "density decrease" power does not already exist.
Thing is, when you get right down to it, the bonuses you get for Density
Increase cost about as much as they would cost if you bought them
separately, give or take a bit. Limiting the hell out of Shrinking gives
you something that is drastically cheaper than buying the powers that would
simulate the desired effects... except that I am still waiting for a
concise list of effects.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
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Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: acronym help
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 19:12:38 -0800
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On Monday, November 24, 1997 12:50 PM, Todd Hanson wrote:
<snip>
>Now.. for the acronym. These women have an attitude, and have
purposely
>chosen a name that will annoy men. I want something along the lines
of
>'BITCH' or 'PMS'... or something similar, but I want the team name to
be
>an acronym. So far I've come up with 'Better Intelligent Than...',
or
>'Better Independant Than...' but I'm having trouble finishing.
>
>Anybody out there want to take a stab at this one?
Beautiful,
Intelligent,
Talented,
Charming, and
Horny.
I'm pretty bad at acronyms, and this is the only one I can remember.
The last word may require tweaking.
Filksinger
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Mail-Copies-To: never
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Date: 24 Nov 1997 22:17:56 -0500
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "CT" == Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@cyberis.net> writes:
CT> I'm sorry, perhaps you could help me understand why this isnt hard.
CT> How do you simulate someone hitting a baseball with a bat, or throwing
CT> to 2nd base before the runner gets there? Please dont say PS rolls,
CT> this should be possible to simulate in combat...
Why do you say that? Playing a game of baseball is *NOT* combat. I can
see an argument for football being run as a brawl, but not baseball, or
basketball, or most other team sports.
Quite simply, you *DON'T* simulate someone hitting a baseball with a bat,
or throwing to 2nd base before the runner gets there. You do not even try.
It is not important to the game the players are playing. If one of the PCs
is a ball player in his secret identity, you look at his PS: Baseball
Player skill, make up some numbers for his teammates and the opposing team,
roll some dice, then interrupt the game with one of the PC's Hunteds.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
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\
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Marvel Conversions: Doctor Doom
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 19:21:10 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Monday, November 24, 1997 11:52 AM, Sam Bell wrote:
>
>-> From filkhero@usa.net Sun Nov 23 03:51:51 1997
>->
>-> I've seen Doom's face. His "horribly scarred face" has a single
scar
>-> two inches long on one cheek. He's just psychotic about it.
>->
>
>I think you are misremembering here. In Doom's original origin story
>he was horribly scarred by his extra-dimensional experiment (the
>one where Reed looked at his calculations and pointed out some
>errors that may or may not have been actual errors depending on
>who you believe). After the accident he traveled, and ended up
>with some mystics in the far east. He built the first version of
>his armor and the faceplate, still hot from the forge was put on his
>face.
>
>In Byrne's retcon Doom received only a small scar from the
>extra-dimensional experiment, but his face was ruined by the red-hot
>faceplate.
>
>Either way, Doom is horribly scarred today. This has been confirmed
>numerous times when Doom revealed his face (always at an angle where
>we couldn't see it) and in close ups where we could see the flesh
>around his eyes.
That's probably correct. The one I am thinking of escapes me at the
moment, but I thought it consisted of Doom losing his mask and
freaking out, when all he had was a tiny scar. I may be remembering
the beginning of the retconned version, or I may be remembering a What
If?, though I can't imagine which one.
Filksinger
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:28:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On 24 Nov 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> >>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:
>
> >> Weapon Familiarity: small arms/rifle.
>
> MS> Which doesn't have a SKILL ROLL! How can you give skill modifers to
> MS> something that doesn't have a skill roll to begin with?
>
> Because a) it is a skill that is b) used in a nonstressed situation.
Here is my last word on the subject: Weapon Familiarity simply allows one
to use a weapon with no CV penalty. There is no characteristic based
skill roll. IMO, that means you can't apply skill modifiers to something
that doesn't have a skill roll to begin with.
If this is how you would play it, fine. This is *not* how I would handle
it.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Mail-Copies-To: never
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>>>>> "F" == Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> writes:
F> Giving you a weapon that, without setting or bracing, will hit a target
F> at two and a half football fields away as easily as one close enough to
F> spit on. I have a small problem with that.
It's called the Barret Model 80, .50 anti-armor sniper rifle. Effective
range against lightly armored targets (people) is on the order of 2.5
miles.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
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\ head.
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:10:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 3
Here's a character that's been in play since 1964......
+-----------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
|VALUE CHARACTERISTIC COST BASE PTS|NAME:
|
| 11 Strength x1 10 1|HERO ID: Ell-Man
|
| 12 Dexterity x3 10 6|PLAYER:
|
| 10 Constitution x2 10
0|----------------------------------------+
| 11 Body x2 10 2| PTS POWERS
END|
| 15 Intelligence x1 10 5| 3 Scholar
|
| 8 Ego x2 10 -4| 7 Computer Programming 14-
|
| 12 Presence x1 10 2| 4 SC: Religion 13-,(INT based)
|
| 12 Comeliness x1/2 10 1| 2 AK: Indiana 11-
|
| 2 Physical Defens x1 2 0| 2 AK: Virginia 11-
|
| 2 Energy Defense x1 2 0| 2 AK: Alabama 11-
|
| 2 Speed x10 2.2 0| 1 KS: History 11-
|
| 4 Recovery x2 4 0| 1 KS: Computers 11-
|
| 20 Endurance x1/2 20 0| 1 KS: Egyptology 11-
|
| 22 Stun x1 22 0| 1 KS: Gaming 11-
|
| Characteristics Cost: 13| 2 PS: Computer Programmer 11-
|
+-----------------------------------+ 2 PS: Teaching 11-
|
|DISADVANTAGES BASE: 0+PTS| 2 AK: Internet 11-
|
|Enraged,"if lied to",common, 5| 1 Gambling 8-
|
| occur 8-,recover 14- | 1 gaming 8-
|
|Dependence,"the puffer",common, 10| 1 PS: Management 8-
|
| effect is instant,1D6 | 1 Conversation 8-
|
|Dependent NPC,"Wife",normal, 15| 1 PS: Cook 8-
|
| useful skills,appear 14- | 1 life-guard 8-
|
|Dependent NPC,"Cat Cujo",less 5| 1 Cryptography 8-
|
| powerful,useful skills,appear | 1 Deduction 8-
|
| 11- | 1 Acting 8-
|
|Watched,"the cops",more 10| 1 Bureaucratics 8-
|
| powerful,non-combat influence, | 1 Electronics 8-
|
| limited area,mild,appear 14- | 1 PS: Jester 8-
|
|Physical Limitation,"wears 15| 1 Systems Operation 8-
|
| glasses",all the time,slightly | 1 SC: Psychology 8-
|
|Physical Limitation,"asthma", 5| 1 Mechanics 8-
|
| infrequently,slightly | 1 Oratory 8-
|
|Psychological Limitation, 5| 1 Paramedic 8-
|
| "conservative",uncommon, | 1 Streetwise 8-
|
| moderate | 1 8- Contact: TK Weisskpf,
|
|Psychological Limitation, 5| publisher-editor
|
| "lecherous",uncommon,moderate | 1 8- Contact: F.K.Freas
|
|Reputation,"womanizer",occur 8- 5| 1 8- Contact: Grace Lee Whitney
|
|Vulnerability,"smoke 5| 1 8- Contact: Lubov, artist
|
| inhalation",uncommon,x1 1/2 | 1 Lang: French
|
| stun | 1 Lang: Latin
|
| | 3 TF,Small (Cars),Boats,Skiing,
|
| | cars
|
| | 3 WF,Swords,Small Arms,fencing
|
| | 3 Galactic Compunet Access
|
| | 1 Intl Drivers License
|
| | 1 Vehicle: Other (5pt)
|
| | 1 Base: Other (5pt)
|
| | 5 1D6 Luck
|
| | 1 +1" Swimming
0|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| Disadvantages Total : 85| 72 : Powers Total
|
| Experience Spent + 0| 13 + Characteristic Total
|
| Total Points = 85| 85 = Total Cost
|
+-----------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
X-Sender: wbandsis@mail.westco.net
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:20:14 -0500
From: "C. Badger" <wbandsis@westco.net>
Subject: Re: acronym help
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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At 14:33 11/24/97 CST, Todd Hanson wrote:
>Okay, I'm going to warn you that this request is going to sound sexist
>and non-politically correct. If this type of things offends you, don't
>read the rest of this. (god, I hate that I even have to say that)
>
>
>Anyway, I need a little help coming up with an acronym for a
>supervillian team. This will be for a one-shot adventure, and played
>mostly for laughs (and a reason to have a senseless combat with old
>friends I see once a year).
>
>The team is a group of women supers who are very 'anti-male' - they
>aren't out for money, power or fame, but to protest things that they
>consider to be sexist, male-elitist, or degrading to women. Their
>typical 'crimes' would be trashing a construction site because some of
>the workers whistled at them as they walked past (in their secret IDs).
>
>In this scenario, they will be holding BOTH footballs teams hostage at
>the Superbowl - protesting that football glorifies violence, only allows
>women to participate by dancing on the sidelines in skimpy costumes,
>etc...
>
>Now.. for the acronym. These women have an attitude, and have purposely
>chosen a name that will annoy men. I want something along the lines of
>'BITCH' or 'PMS'... or something similar, but I want the team name to be
>an acronym. So far I've come up with 'Better Intelligent Than...', or
>'Better Independant Than...' but I'm having trouble finishing.
>
>Anybody out there want to take a stab at this one?
Better Intelligence then Cromagnon humans.....
Don't forget destroying any man made structures that might be seen as
looking like a huge Penis...... or that general shape, including any thing
the looks like a rocket, or shoots water into the air..... you get the idea.
-----
C. Badger
My Feet hurt and I've forgotten how to dance.
Londo
Babylon 5
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 25 Nov 97 04:23:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Writing up yourself
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h > And I believe that PS: Lawyer, 14- doesn't cut it to describe the
h > professional with a masters degree and years of experience, contacts,
h > and complimentary skills.
h >
The 14- skill and the few points wrapped up in it don't represent
years of experience and education. They represent the game mechanic,
and the usefulness in relation to a typical game. It's just not
that aplicable to most situations. Unless, of course, you're
playing Courtroom Hero with PCs like Perry Mason and Matlock.
Then yeah, 50pts in legal skills, no problem, because you're going
for a pianful level of detail, and the most detailed legal KS
or minor police contact is going to be very significant at times.
The super hero doesn't need that kind of detail, in that kind
of skill, he does need to know exactly what his powers do.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:33:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CHAR: SILVER SCORPION
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Here she is Murray:
+-----------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
VALUE CHARACTERISTIC COST BASE PTS NAME: Victoria Jantzen
15 Strength x1 10 5 HERO ID: SILVER SCORPION
26 Dexterity x3 10 48 PLAYER: egyptoid@aol.com
25 Constitution x2 10 30
----------------------------------------+
11 Body x2 10 2 PTS POWERS END
16 Intelligence x1 10 6 22 Multipower (Magic) (30),"sword",
12 Ego x2 10 4 OIF,extremely hard,0 END
13 Presence x1 10 3 1u 2D6 Hand-To-Hand Attack (Magic) 0
16 Comeliness x1/2 10 3 2u 6D6 Energy Blast (Magic),
6 Physical Defens x1 3 3 "magnetic ray",stun only,beam
6 Energy Defense x1 5 1 attack 0
6 Speed x10 3.6 24 1u 20 STR Telekinesis (Magic),"TK
9 Recovery x2 8 2 martial Throw",only vs. targets
50 Endurance x1/2 50 0 of or wearing metal 0
40 Stun x1 32 8 2u 14 OCV Missile Deflection
Characteristics Cost: 139 (Magic),deflect all attacks
+-----------------------------------+ 9 3 Levels: all sword powers,tight
DISADVANTAGES BASE: 150+PTS group
Hunted,"HYDRA",more powerful, 20 3 Basic Strike
non-combat influence,harsh, 4 Martial Block
appear 8- 3 Weapon Groups,Swords/Blades
Hunted,"the Scorpion",more 15 4 Martial Disarm
powerful,harsh,appear 8- 5 Defensive Strike
Reputation,"dingy co-ed",occur 5 4 Martial Throw,Ranged
8- 12 Damage Class +3DC
Public ID,"Victoria Jantzen" 10 5 1 Levels: martial arts,related
Distinctive Features,"faceted 20 group
eyes, scorpion pack", 15 Radar Sense (Radiation)
concealable,extreme 20 Targeting Sense (Radiation),
Physical Limitation,"scorpion 5 Radar
pack permanently on back", 7 Discriminatory Sense
infrequently,slightly (Radiation),Radar,270' sensing
Vulnerability,"electrical",very 30 10 +0 STR Clinging (Mutant Powers)
common,x2 stun 16 8/8 Armor,"reed richards suit",
Psychological Limitation, 15 OIF,personal focus
"overconfident",common,strong 13 +4" Running,x4 Non-Combat 1
Psychological Limitation, 15 3 WF,Swords
"protective of normals", 3 Computer Programming 12-
common,strong 5 5 Flash Defense,Radio Group
Psychological Limitation,"dingy 5 3 5 Flash Defense,Sight Group,IIF,
co-ed",uncommon,moderate fragile
Enraged,"when photographed", 18 3 6 Extra Limbs,"scorpion pack's
very common,occur 14-,recover legs",0 STR, half-hex reach
8- 10 High Range Radio Hearing
Enraged,"normals hurt by 18 5 Discriminatory Sense,Radio
villains",very common,occur 17 Mind Link (Magic),"computers or
14-,recover 8- arthropods",any one mind,any
distance,No Range,computers via
link, scorpions via sword
10 15- Universal Translator,only
computer code or arthropod
speech,Linked,"to mind link",
Extra Time,time: 1 turn,only to
start power
5 Radio Transmit/Receive,"JLBama
cell phone"
2 Federal Police Powers,witness
protection program
Disadvantages Total : 176 224 : Powers Total
Experience Spent + 37 139 + Characteristic Total
Total Points = 363 363 = Total Cost
+-----------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
SS came to be a hero as the side effect of a HYDRA experiment.
She was born a mutant, got some bionic extentions, and acquired a
magic sword, so none of her SFX are unified.
Her appearance bears some describing:
Normal human woman, 5'9", 175 pounds, age 23.
Her eyes have been replaced by faceted crystalline viewers, and
seem insectile.
Permanently attached to her back, about the size of a large book-bag,
is a metallic bionic scorpion. The scorpion is like an AI plugged into
her spine. It's arms usually just clutch around her, and it's tail ends
in a mechanical grab, not a stinger (but she's looking for someone to
modify that). SS usually connects the tail to her sword to keep from
getting disarmed.
Her unusual looks make her unable to have a normal life, and she superheroes
full time. She had studied computers in college, and to some extent the
bionic brain in the scorpion pack enhances that. Despite the burdens on her
she still has a bubbly youthful outlook on things, and her irreverent
comments
often crack a smile on even dour heroes like the Vision.
Her nick-names on some other heroes:
Quantum: Bombasta-bimbo
Animal-Man: That guy the Tiny-Toons underoos
Cptn.Britain: Testosto-Man
Beetle: Bug-eyed Dweebage
Defender: Sparky the wonder Can
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:33:48 -0600
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: acronym help
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Christopher Taylor wrote:
> The hell with PC, its out dated anyway, thats early 90s crap, hopefully
> people have grown up since then.
Umm... you WERE around a couple of weeks ago when we had a major flame war
going because a company used the phrase 'pow wow' for one of its products?
Unfortunately, political correctness is still going strong. Way too many
people go out of their way to find an excuse to be offended.
Todd
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:37:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: ROCKO,part two...
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Here we are stretching special effects almost to the breaking point...
His disads arise from the fact that his followers tend to evaporate
in the presence of policemen... Most of his powers don't work as well in
some situations, like if he were inside Stronghold, or in a spaceship.
But around town, he's always got people around to help out.
His ego attack, entangle, telekinesis, and killing attack are big and
obvious.
Rocko gives the word and a squad of tie-wearing, cigar-smoking thugs shows up
and gives the target a hard time.
The way to run Rocko is to remember that he is like a general of an army.
He commands men to do things and they get done. Rocko does very little in
combat except shout out orders, point at targets, etc.
Certain other powers might suppress or dispel Rocko's powers. For example,
enough dice of Area-Effect mind-cntrol could cause all of Rocko's men to
vanish, for a while. But they are either family or fanatically loyal, and
besides they are technically just special effects. Rocko's men usually figure
out a way to get to his side and help him out.
Special Effects Possibilities:
==============================
Enhanced Perception "cloud of spies" gals watching out for Rocko.
Radio Transmit/Receive (radios, cell-phones)
Rocko carries a phone & a radio, plus "Static" Yablonski listens
to the police bands and tell rocko what's brewing.
Armor,"cover me, boys"
Especially loyal gang members have been known to take bullets for Rocko.
Change Environment (equipment),vary environment
Gang members with Flashlights, Fans, Fire Extinguishers. Whatever Rocko
can dream up, he'll tell Jimmy "go buy a dozen and bring'em down here".
"Go heist me one of them movie-type wind machines".
Clairsentience (telephone call)
Is carried out by moles that actually spy in on conversations, documents,
wire-taps. Then they call up Rocko and tell what they found out.
He could even have a hooker sleep with the governor and learn privy
government info that way. It's hard to tell what Rocko knows about.
Ego Attack "cussing creeps"
Big squad of bullies shoves, yells and intimidates target.
Energy Blast (bullets),"gun molls",vs physical defense
Rocko tells some of his chicks with pistols to spray-down an area.
Entangle
Two big bullies tackle target and hold in full-nelson and sleeper hold.
Extra Limbs "gimme a hand will ya?"
Three or four of Rocko's boys help him out with any menial tasks.
Flash (Laser),"light'em up boys",Sight Group
Snipers with laser-scopes attempt to aim at target's eyes.
Hand-To-Hand Attack "knuckle sandwiches"
If anyone's rude enough to attempt to fight Rocko directly, usually
big Muggsy steps up and punches the dummy's lights out.
Instant Change (bring me some duds),any clothes
Sherrie and the girls will pick up any duds Rocko needs.
Invisibility "blend in with the crowd, boys"
Technically, this power only works in an urban environment, and
normals must be present to blend into.
Life Support (bring me a sweater, Muggsy),"bring me a pizza, Teresa"
Actually this is where the SFX kinda break down. Rocko actually
does breathe, but if he knows a gas attackis coming, he'll have
little Eddie go steal a gas mask from somewhere, see?
Mind Control "horse head" Rocko tends make offers people don't refuse.
Telekinesis "bring'em to me",
Two big bullies tackle target and drag it to Rocko, or throw it
off the pier as Rocko sees fit.
Teleportation "call in the chopper"
Rocko and up to four people step into a chopper and fly off.
Flight Rocko steps into a limo, jet, etc, and zoom!
Killing Attack - Ranged "waste'em, Ollie",
Snipers with scopes, Thugs with Uzis, Rocko don't care, just
get rid of that creep, boys. Doens't have to be indirect, sometimes
in emergencies Rocko gets a tommy-gun himself.
Tunneling "get me outta here"
This can be anything from a mousy little guy with a shovel showing up
to help Rocko out, all the way up to Rocko calling in a favor from a
buddy that owns a construction firm and a big back-hoe shows up...
Drain (smear campaign),"vs. Presence",fade rate: per week
Rocko snaps his fingers and a huge whispering campaign kicks up,
newspaper ads appear lampooning the target, billboards pop up
showing the target as a cartoon... In short, Rocko can make anyone
look like an idiot.
Suppress,"focus-grabbing goons"
Rocko'll say "Frankie, take that wand away from that wizard".
End Reserve (new gang members) The Multipower draws from this reserve.
Presence
Rocko and his boys stare down the target, fingering their weapons.
Good Guy Option:
================
Rocko is still the head of a powerful family, but they haven't done anything
overtly illegal since Prohibition. They kept the docks area clean for the
cops
during the war and even caught a Nazi spy sub. Now Rocko's thugs are a
vigilante gang who oppose VIPER, GENOCIDE, etc. The police turn a blind eye
to
Rocko's excesses because he does such a good job suppressing other cartels.
Rocko uses his network of stool pigeons. informants, inside plants and moles
to fight crime from the inside. Nowadays the only illegal thing Rocko does
is
have a few call girls and smoke black market cigars. Rocko fights super-
villains and paranormals just for the pride of saying "Me and my boys wasted
that Destroyer creep ourselves".
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:37:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: ROCKO part one
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X-UID: 6
VALUE CHARACTERISTIC COST BASE PTS NAME: Rocko Luzianno
6 Strength x1 10 -4 HERO ID: ROCKO the GANGSTER
20 Dexterity x3 10 30 PLAYER: egyptoid@aol.com
23 Constitution x2 10 32
----------------------------------------+
9 Body x2 10 -2 PTS POWERS END
18 Intelligence x1 10 8 15 +5 Enhanced Perception
18 Ego x2 10 16 "cloud of spies",with all senses
20/48 Presence x1 10 10 15 +5 Enhanced Perception
18 Comeliness x1/2 10 4 with all senses
5 Physical Defens x1 1 4 15 Radio Transmit/Receive
5 Energy Defense x1 5 0 (radios, cell-phones)
4 Speed x10 3.0 10 75 Multipower (gang members &
10 Recovery x2 6 8 henchmen) (75),not in vacuum,
57 Endurance x1/2 46 9 not in space,Only In Hero ID,
56 Stun x1 24 38 Incantation,x1 Difficult to
Characteristics Cost: 163 Dispel,Indirect,any location and
+-----------------------------------+ direction
DISADVANTAGES BASE: 150+PTS 15m 25/25 Armor,"cover me, boys"
Accidental Change,"all powers 5 7m 16" Change Environment
shut off around FBI officers", (equipment),vary environment 7
uncommon,occur 8- 3u Clairsentience (telephone call),
Berserk,"if arrested",uncommon, 15 "what's Rogers been saying about
occur 11-,recover 11- me?",Sight Group,Hearing Group,
Dependence,"fine cigars", 25 x125 Increased Range,Extra Time,
uncommon,effect is instant,3D6 time: 1 hour 8
Dependent NPC,"Sweet Marie", 20 15m 7 1/2D6 Ego Attack (Sonics),
incompetent,appear 11- "cussing creeps" 15
Distinctive Features,"looks 15 7u 12D6 Energy Blast (bullets),"gun
like short classic mobster", molls",vs PD, Area One Hex 15
concealable,major 11m 4D6 Entangle (Telekinesis),
Hunted,"police",as powerful, 20 "muscle'em up",target and
non-combat influence,harsh, entangle damaged,backlash 11
appear 11- 1m 30 Extra Limbs (Telekinesis),
Watched,"FBI",as powerful, 10 "gimme a hand will ya?"
non-combat influence,harsh, 15m 6 1/2D6 Flash (Light),"light'em
appear 11- up boys",Sight Group 15
Normal Char Maxima 20 15m 25D6 Hand-To-Hand Attack
Psychological Limitation,"hates 15 (Telekinesis),"knuckle
cops",very common,moderate sandwiches" 15
Public ID,"Rocko Luzianno" 10 1u Instant Change (bring me some
Reputation,"Mobster",occur 14-, 20 duds),any clothes
extreme reputation 14m Invisibility (Light),"blend in
Rivalry,"Sergei the Russian", 5 with the crowd, boys",Sight
professional Group,Hearing Group,Smell/Taste
Susceptibility,"squad cars, 20 Group,Mental Group,no fringe 14
hand-cuffs",very common,per 1m Life Support (bring me a
minute,2D6 sweater, Muggsy),"bring me a
Unluck,1D6 5 pizza, Teresa",doesn't
Vulnerability,"PRE attacks of 5 eat/sleep/excrete,safe in
lawmen",uncommon,x1 1/2 stun heat/cold
Vulnerability,"cop, LE, FBI 30 7u 15D6 Mind Control (Sonics, PRE)
attacks",very common,x2 stun "show him the horse head" 15
DISADS POWERS & SKILLS
Susceptibility,"drain vs MP 30 13m 43 STR Telekinesis
from cops, LE, FBI",very (Telekinesis),"bring'em to me",
common,per turn,3D6 fine manipulation,affects all
Physical Limitation,"short", 15 parts 15
frequently,greatly 15m 25" Teleportation (Telekinesis),
Distinctive Features,"very 15 "call in the chopper",x4
short",concealable,major Increased Mass,x4 Increased
Powers carried out by Flunkies 35 Range,1 Fixed Locations,1
Floating Locations 12
7u 2" Flight (Telekinesis),"lear
jet",x16K Non-Combat, UBO 1
15m 5D6 Killing Attack - Ranged
(Telekinesis),"waste'em, Ollie",
vs physical defense 15
7u 10" Tunneling (Telekinesis),"get
me outta here",5 DEF Increased
Def,can close hole 4
5u 3D6 Drain (smear campaign),"vs.
Presence",fade rate: per week 10
7u 12D6 Suppress,"focus-grabbing
goons",0 END 0
40 200/20 End Reserve (new gang
members)
14 48 Presence doesn't add to figured
,not vs. police, LE, or FBI
This is Rocko the Mobster. He's 20 Followers: henchmen & molls
modeled after the criminal (2pt),16 # of Followers
nemesis of Bugs Bunny. He 2 11- Contact: underworld
embodies every cliche you can 3 Bribery 19-
think of about zoot-suit 3 Bugging 13-
criminals and mafioso of the 40s 3 Bureaucratics 19-
& 50s. He wear a fedora, chain 15 3 Levels w/Multi-Power
smokes cigars, and is always 3 Concealment 13-
surrounded by a gang of blokes 3 Criminology 13-
and dames. Almost all his 3 Disguise 11-
"powers" are accomplished by a 3 Forgery 11-
henchmen (or 5) doing it for 3 Interrogation 19-
him. His energy blast is a hail 3 Lip Reading 11-
of gunfire, his telekinesis 3 Paramedic 13-
consists of big goons hauling 3 PS: Attorney 19-,(PRE based)
the target around. You see, the 3 Security Systems 13-
special effects are all gangmen. 3 Tracking 13-
His lip-reading consists of a 3 3 Favors: underworld
mole telling him what someone 2 Concealed Weapon Permit
said, his teleport means a 1 License for Profession
chopper appears and carries him 10 Head of State (Maffio Don)
to the desired hex, where he 10 Money,wealthy
debarks. etc.etc. 10 Vehicles: limo, lear jet, copter
50
Disadvantages Total : 335 457 : Powers Total
Experience Spent + 135 163 + Characteristic Total
Total Points = 620 620 = Total Cost
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:38:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
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X-UID: 4
In a message dated 11/24/97 4:04:31 PM, filkhero@usa.net wrote:
>Absolutely correct. And as soon as I find a power that is specifically
>for reducing density, I'll be glad to drop all ideas of "no-size
>shrinking".
Like, Change Environment, perhaps?
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 25 Nov 97 04:40:02 GMT
Subject: acronym help
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h >
h > 'BITCH' or 'PMS'... or something similar, but I want the team name to
h > be
h > an acronym. So far I've come up with 'Better Intelligent Than...', or
h >
h > 'Better Independant Than...' but I'm having trouble finishing.
h >
h > Anybody out there want to take a stab at this one?
h >
h >
h > Todd
h > ______________________________________________________
Many years ago I used the Acronym WITCH for a villainous
all-female agency. It stood for Women's International
Terrorist Command Hierarchy. Which doesn't make much
sense, what can I say, I was teenager. And, they were
a high-tech group led by an alien - not a hint of
mystacism. Oh well.
Also, how is a derogatory term like BITCH going to be
offensive to men? Sounds like it's the ladies who
won't think much of this group. Now, if you could
come up with an acronym for GODDESS or AMAZON or
HECATE or something....
How bout FEM - Females Enslaving Men. :)
No, some guys would like that too much.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 25 Nov 97 04:46:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
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h > CT> I have long thought the perfect combat system would simulate
h > baseball
h > CT> smoothly, its heinous to figure out in hero.
h >
I would have thought it was perfect, haven't you noticed how
long baseball takes, the way most of the players just stand
arround while one guy does something. Hours of strategy,
waiting, and comentary, over seconds of action.
That doesn't sound like Champions? :) :) <grin, don't kill me>
h > Not.
h >
h > You are looking at baseball as combat rather than the Professional
h > Skill:
h > Baseball Player.
h >
Oh yeah, that would be exciting... Oh, wait we are talking
about baseball. But how could we simulate Kriket?
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 25 Nov 97 04:48:06 GMT
Subject: Non shrinking shrinking
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h >
h > > When you use limitations to eliminate 3/4 of a power's functions, I
h > think
h > > you have gone beyond the point of "serious point imbalance",
h > especially
h > > when most of what you have left is something that could be
h > accomplished
h > > with judicious use of another power.
h >
h > Are you saying that using Shrinking to get Density Decrease is
h > abusively cost
h > effective?
h >
h > Geoff Speare
h >
No it's abusively *ineffective* producing a whimpy character that
drags the group down.... Seriously, I've seen it happen.
<OK, I'm not really being serious>
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 25 Nov 97 05:12:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Strength
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r > >
r > > If you're concerned about playing just the character you want,
r > > play Champions.
r >
r > Or GURPS or V&V or DC Heroes. All of which have equal flexability
r > in what you can make.
r >
<smothering a laugh>
You can't be serious. GURPS achieves flexibility only by putting
out a new supplement for each and every little thing. GURPS
supers steps back and takes a more effects based aproach, but
it still doesn't come close to Hero (OK, close, but clearly not
there yet). I don't know about Living Legends, but V&V was little
more than a list of superpowers, randomly generated, at that.
Even if you go ahead and pick powers, you're still getting
nowhere by comparison. DC Heroes? Sure you have the flexability
to play any DC character mayfair games published stats on (which
you can't always do in Hero), and yes, there was a side-door
do-anything-you-want rule hidden in there, but it was hardly
workable.
Hero System is an accross the board Universal system, the first
really good one (Basic Roleplaying from Chaosium had to be the
first). GURPS is the only other system that is a close substitute,
and it is too dependent on sourcebooks for it's flexibility, and
too fond of reality checks (this last being for my personal taste,
only).
r > Just diferent emphasis, diferent sub-genre.
r > GURPS is gritty
r > V&V is early 80's, late 70's post silver age
r > DC Heroes is four color
r > Champions is Silver Age or modern, non-gritty.
r >
You're thinking more of how people tend to use the games, than
what they're capable of. Most Champions games and supplements
have been the less gritty sort. GURPS I can see being considered
gritty because of the insistence on realism, which forces the
grit into your game whether you want it or not. Obviously, nothing
is going to do DC games like DC Heroes (how could it?). As for
V&V I played it's, it's D&D in spandex, I never played it again
(Living Legends could be a lot better, I haven't seen it).
r > All of these systems can do the other genres, just all of them do
r > their own genre better than the others do.
Yes, each game has it's own feel, if you try to use Champions to
precisiely simulate V&V it's going to come off pretty badly, but
if really do look at doing genres, you can't beat a good universal
system.
r >
r > If you own ALL of these RPG's, as I do, then you can dispute this.
r > But if all you have is Hero, or one or two on the list, or even all
r > without also owning several of the suppliments, then you're lacking gro
r > base your view on.
"You can only criticize this game if you liked it enough to buy it!"
Right. I played the games, I became familliar with the rules (in the
case of GURPS far more familliar than I wanted to be), and that's
precisely why I didn't buy my own copy.
r > I own and have used 90% of what's available for all 4 of the systems
r > above. All for at least 8 years. I know what they contain. You can
Then obviously you liked them all. Enjoy playing them, by all means.
r > like Hero, but you can't tell me it's better at EVERYTHING
r > until you can make the
r > same claim of knowledge about the other systems as well.
r >
Hero does do Everything better than those other games, though there
are specific things the others might do better. :)
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 03:45:14 -0800
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
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Opal wrote:
>
> h > CT> I have long thought the perfect combat system would simulate
> h > baseball
> h > CT> smoothly, its heinous to figure out in hero.
> h >
>
> I would have thought it was perfect, haven't you noticed how
> long baseball takes, the way most of the players just stand
> arround while one guy does something. Hours of strategy,
> waiting, and comentary, over seconds of action.
>
> That doesn't sound like Champions? :) :) <grin, don't kill me>
Forgive me for squandering bandwidth, but;
GOOD ONE!
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 04:10:25 -0800
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Writing up yourself
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Opal wrote:
>
> h > And I believe that PS: Lawyer, 14- doesn't cut it to describe the
> h > professional with a masters degree and years of experience, contacts,
> h > and complimentary skills.
> h >
>
> The 14- skill and the few points wrapped up in it don't represent
> years of experience and education. They represent the game mechanic,
> and the usefulness in relation to a typical game. It's just not
> that aplicable to most situations. Unless, of course, you're
> playing Courtroom Hero with PCs like Perry Mason and Matlock.
> Then yeah, 50pts in legal skills, no problem, because you're going
> for a pianful level of detail, and the most detailed legal KS
> or minor police contact is going to be very significant at times.
> The super hero doesn't need that kind of detail, in that kind
> of skill, he does need to know exactly what his powers do.
Yes, exactly. The WHOLE point is to decide what area of emphasis
one's campaign takes. Generally, the most commonly used
powers/skills/talents/abilities/whatever will be most detailed in the
character writeup. I believe that all facets of a character should,
indeed, be included in his/her writup, but JUST because HERO is a
point-based system does NOT mean that every little G** D*** thing needs
to be paid for with points. Many things can be included in the
characters' background(s) for free, and some things can and should be
covered by a scant few points; it all depends on the focus of the
campaign.
A Super-Hero who is a lawyer should be able to handle/win a court
case once in a while, as part of a game, with simply a PS, maybe a KS
and optionally one or two specialities. 6 to 8 points MAX. Because it
would be a situation not commonly dealt with. If a character is a
mechanic in his mundane life, it could be given for free if (s)he
virtually never used it in adventuring. A Mechanic skill could allow
him/her to fix the team's SuperVehicle in a pinch. A High Mechanic
skill plus two supplementary specialities and Non-Combat Skill Levels
would probably allow one to alter the SlickMobile to specifications
every other game with little fuss.
Peter Parker is a Professional Photographer. He has his own
darkroom, has had a book of his pictures published, and makes his living
by his skill. Still, Spiderman's character sheet probably only has a
PS; Photographer and KS; Photography and Film Development to cover it.
Because it seldom has significant (if any) effect on his adventuring; it
is how he supports himself and also works as a plot hook to send him
interesting places for new adventures. However, he definitely spent a
number of points on his sciences, since on several occasions, it is Mr.
Parker's knowledge of science(s) that significantly aid him in his
adventuring endeavours.
Basically, more points should generally be spent on those things that
most directly affect the actual game. The more inconsequential (in
terms of game applicability), the fewer points should be required.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:13:44 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Subject: Any Vampire Write-up ?
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Has anyone made a vampire write-up ?
[]s.
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: PowWow & PC again (Re: acronym help)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:15:11 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
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> > > The hell with PC, its out dated anyway, thats early 90s crap, hopefully
> > > people have grown up since then.
> >
> > Umm... you WERE around a couple of weeks ago when we had a major flame war
> > going because a company used the phrase 'pow wow' for one of its products?
> >
> > Unfortunately, political correctness is still going strong. Way too many
> > people go out of their way to find an excuse to be offended.
> >
>
> Sure, PC can be taken to a foolish extreme (e.g. "waitron"), but I think it
> is a small thing to ask for people to be a little bit careful about how their
> word choice in order to avoid hurting others.
Exactly.
Getting Native American or A,erican Indian confused is ok. Objecting is a
little too PC. But using 'Injun' 'Redskin' or 'Savage' is where PC is
justified.
Same thing can be said about 'Babe' 'Bitch' 'Chick'. Clear insults.
'Lady', 'Miss', or 'Woman' may be wrong; depending on usage. It's ussually
not taken as a major slight when missused.
Similarly, if you geta group of actors together and paint their
faces black, with huge white lips. Then have them dance around on stage
and act stupid. Chances are you'll get objections from several groups.
Pow Wow is basically accused of this same slight. It's one thing
to take and model something off of cultural icons. If done, it should be
done in a clear, accurate, and respectful manner.
Pow Wow however, stands accused of catering to negative stereotypes
on Native Americans. Doing so in a public forum with anybody's culture is
wrong. Even if the people behind Pow Wow were Native American it would
still be wrong.
We don't do polish jokes in public anymore. We don't make fun of
Irish, we don't call german's Krouts. Native AMericans should get the same
treatment.
It's that's simple.
It's not some crazed PC witch-hunt. It's just a statement that if you have to
use 'cultural packages' in something; do it right. Don't promote negative
stereotypes of people.
Radical PC happens when we're all called person or it. Or when large
portions of the language which lack negative connotations are pushed out.
There's a clear diference from 'Policeman' and 'Nigger'.
Refusing the first is militant-PC.
Refusing the second is simply politeness and stopping a negative stereotype.
Pow Wow stands accused of the second, not the first.
There is a diference.
Comments: Authenticated sender is <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca>
From: "Vance Scott" <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:44:22 -500
Subject: Re: Possession type question
Reply-to: vances@sympatico.ca
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> The problem comes from the creatures ability to jump into a dead corpse and
> use that corpse to affect the real world.
>
> I would like some feedback on how to best write this ability up. Oh, and I
> don't have horror hero, so that doesn't help me much.
>
> It had been suggested to write up stats and such with the lim that it requires
> a corpse or something like that,
A multiform that has the limitation requires target corpse in order
to function -1/2. You'll also want shapeshift as one of the powers
that the that form possesses so you can appear in the form of the
corpse you're animating. You might be able to get away with a -1/4
limitation shapeshift only when multiform is first activated, and
-1/2 only to appear in the likeness of target corpse. If Geist gets
any special abilities that the form may have such as wings than
you'll need a multipower, or a power pool to simulate any advantages
that the form gives you, much like a classic shapeshifter.
> and I thought about giving him TK to move the body around with no range
on it.
Nix on this idea.
Vance Scott
Vanquisher of all foes
Comments: Authenticated sender is <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca>
From: "Vance Scott" <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:44:23 -500
Subject: Champions Campaign Themes
Reply-to: vances@sympatico.ca
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I'd like some help from my fellow heroes, I'm trying to compile a
list of campaign themes. A campaign theme establishes the nature of
the threat, and opposition that a team will face. A campaign theme
is strongly related to the goals, and objectives of the featured
team.
The XMen's special goal is to promote good relations between
humans, and mutants. The XMen's adventures often involve defending
humans from criminal mutants, and mutants from criminal humans.
The Justice League's special goal is to defend the earth from
threats foreign, and domestic. The Justice League often fights world
conquers, or destroyers.
A campaign theme will have a direct impact on the nature and feel
of a campaign. The campaign's flavour is determined by the goals, and
mission of the team. Sticking to a campaign theme helps establish a
special mood, and feel to your campaign that will set it apart from
other campaigns, and GMs. There is no reason a Superhero Campaign
needs to be Generic.
Here's a short list of
Campaign Themes
Protectors of Earth - These heroes are responsible for protecting
earth and it's inhabitants. They are the earth's first defense
against alien invasions, space monsters, and other world shaking
threats.
Law Enforcers - These heroes are agents of the government who
maintain the peace, and enforce the law. These heroes have the
santion of their government.
Vigilantes - These "heroes" are citizens who take justice into their
own hands, and met out punishment as they see fit.
Specialists - These heroes handle special cases that require unique
skills and talents to handle. These heroes deal with those threats
that the usual hero can't handle. A covert operations team, or a
supernatural investigations and elimination team would qualify.
Social Activists - These heroes are trying to change society. They
are trying to promote social, legal, and/or political change in the
community they live in.
Minority Front - These heroes are members of a minority who's first
interest is the protection, and advancement of the group they
represent. These heroes might be mutants, aliens, or a human minority
group.
There's the the list. I eagerly await any additions that the
collective heroes can think of.
Vance Scott
Vanquisher of all foes
From: Legionair@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:46:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Marvel Conversions: Doctor Doom
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In a message dated 97-11-23 07:00:36 EST, filkhero@usa.net writes:
<< I've seen Doom's face. His "horribly scarred face" has a single scar
two inches long on one cheek. He's just psychotic about it. >>
There's been three versions of this concept for a while...
The initial version was that Victor's face was horribly scarred in that
initial experiment. Then the monks placed the red hot mask on his face,
making the scarring only worse.
The second version was that the initial experiment only made that tiny scar.
The red hot mask was placed on his face anyway, since his vanity said that
his face was already scarred.
Later on, during the Byrne run, Sue managed to see his face and that's when
the one tiny scar concept started.
In all honesty, any one of these concepts could be true and none of them
could be at the same time. The writers are always changing the story... and
with the abundance of robot dopplegangers and clones.. Well...
Jason
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Re: acronym help
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:54:05 -0500
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If you really want the men to hate them, call the the BOBBITS
Dave Mattingly
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:20:07 +0000
From: David Cooper <raven@castles.com>
Reply-To: raven@castles.com
Organization: Raventronics
Subject: HeroMaker
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Hello
Does any one know were you can find updates to HeroMaker. I'm looking
for printer drivers.
Thanks
--
"Look, mentally I'm older than Lincoln, emotionally
I'm six years old, physically I look like I'm in my
twenties, my hormones are going top speed, and I'm
something evolved from a slug evolved into something
evolved from an ape. And YOU got the nerve to say
YOU'RE confused?!?"
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:42:01 -0500
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: Non shrinking shrinking
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>>I want some of the effects listed in the Shrinking table; thus, I buy
>>Shrinking and limit out the ones I don't want. Simple!
> I dunno, Geoff. Normally you seem on the ball, but ... ignoring the first
> sentence principle for a moment here, there are six mechanical elements
> to the Shrinking (weight lessen, height lessen, DCV bonus, PER penalty,
> KB increase, growth velocity). To use it for "density decrease," you have
> to limit out 4 of them. Any time 2/3 of the power isn't right for what
> you want to do, somehow I'm thinking the power /period/ isn't right for
> what you want to do.
I see your point, but given Hero's philosophy of allowing any limitation but
only specific advantages, limiting the heck out of something is often the only
way to go.
> It's like Long's suggestion somewhere of KB with the limitation that
> it only prevents the damage, not the actual knocking back. Sure, this
> technically is playable from a purely theoretical standpoint, but it
> makes more sense to buy extra PD against Knockback, since it's specifically
> /meant/ to prevent damage.
This is certainly a more clear cut situation.
Geoff Speare
X-Sender: wga@pop.cwru.edu
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:40:47 -0500
From: Will Austin <wga@po.cwru.edu>
Subject: Re: Strength
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<x-rich>At 04:08 PM 11/24/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Yes, the Fantastic Four. You already listed characters above that are
at
>this power level (the FF are pretty cool, but until Byrne got to them
were
>not especially powerful, even with the Thing).
Nope--gotta disagree with you here--the FF were/are pretty powerful, and
have been gradually escalating even before Byrne got to them, with the
exception of the Invisible Woman, who <italic>still </italic>seems like a
Stan Lee 'Housewife Heroine' at times. . .
<italic>
</italic>>This really isn't that tough to understand, please try to
restrain the knee
>jerk sarcasm and think a little... most characters from older comics
were
>less powerful than characters today, case in point the XMen, who were
fairly
>modest in power, but are gods that walk the earth now.
I think that more characters from today actually cut loose with their
power, and thus <italic>seem</italic> more powerful. Characters from the
Silver age often held back for fear of harming even their opponents (the
X-Men were an exception, 'cause, let's face it--the original X-Men
<italic>needed </italic>a boost in power. . .)
============================================================================
Nomad
wga@po.cwru.edu
myrtth@geocities.com
"Wee such stuff as dreams are made on, and our little life is rounded
with a sleep."
--Shakespeare, <bold><italic>The Tempest</italic></bold>,
IV.i.148
============================================================================
</x-rich>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:00:45 -0500
From: Geoffrey Speare <geoff@omg.org>
Subject: Non shrinking shrinking
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> GS> Are you saying that using Shrinking to get Density Decrease is
> GS> abusively cost effective?
>
> I am saying that it is abusive,
How? If it's too cheap, just give less of a limitation. If possession of the
power is somehow abusive, how is it worse than for a person with full
Shrinking?
> especially when one assumes that specific effects are irrelevant when
> determining what power(s) to choose to achieve desired effects.
This sounds like "derived from a different viewpoint" rather than abusive. :-)
Geoff Speare
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:53:48 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: acronym help
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> > The hell with PC, its out dated anyway, thats early 90s crap, hopefully
> > people have grown up since then.
>
> Umm... you WERE around a couple of weeks ago when we had a major flame war
> going because a company used the phrase 'pow wow' for one of its products?
Um. That's *stole* the phrase as well as misrepresented it.
> Unfortunately, political correctness is still going strong. Way too many
> people go out of their way to find an excuse to be offended.
And way too many people decide that they can offend with no qualms
and if anyone complains, then their overly PC. There are some problems
out there. This GM has to look at his players to decide how they will
react to this session. Obviously, if he has an avowed millitant feminist
in his group this is probably a bad (very bad) idea. Otherwise, get some
feelers and go with what seems to be OK.
-Tim Gilberg
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Unusual character concepts : American Star
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:09:44 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
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> q> Not so easy! At the risk of restarting the 'Immortality' thread, I'd
> q> suggest Desolidification, not vs attacks which do 2xBODY (ie instant
> q> obliteration), limited such that she appears to take damage normally.
> q> Or you could use the Spirit rules.
>
> I still find myself liking the (mis)use of Summon as described in "Mythic
> Greece". Yes, it does break the rule that Summon cannot summon a specific
> creature -- the PC. Making the allowance for it for this type of effect is
> cleaner than the other ideas I have seen thrown about.
Hmm.
I'm tempted to introduce a house rule. Now let me start by saying that in
my 13 years as a Hero system GM, I've never used any house rules.
And it would also mean I could only use her as an NPC, as she'd no
longer be "tournament legal".
What I'm thinking is using Fuzion's Regeration power.
This power works not by giving back X body per recovery, but by moving
how often you get Body Rec's down the time chart. It then has a +20 point
option for (4 fuzion points btw) being able to still regen after death.
This is then limited by "A common special effect or set of uncommon
effects under which it doesn't work".
All in all, it's a much better regen power than Hero's. Which is
unusual for Fuzion. But then, unlike everything else in Fuzion, it was
designed after the basic book was published by people on the net (the Fuzion
mailing list) and not by Herogames or RTG. It was then added in the second
Fuzion: Champs book (Alliances). So unlike the rest of Fuzion, it was
examined in detail before publication...
However, I may go for duplication, only one at a time, second comes
online whenever first dies instead. Should that be done as a trigger? or
something else?
Rook --- Incoherent Thinking Specialist
Also known as Arcady on #herochat, #Fuzionchat, #gurps, #V&V,
and #SuperHeroChat in DALnet IRC
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@cmi.csc.com>
Subject: Re: acronym help
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:53:31 CST
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> > > The hell with PC, its out dated anyway, thats early 90s crap, hopefully
> > > people have grown up since then.
> >
> > Umm... you WERE around a couple of weeks ago when we had a major flame war
> > going because a company used the phrase 'pow wow' for one of its products?
>
> Um. That's *stole* the phrase as well as misrepresented it.
>
> > Unfortunately, political correctness is still going strong. Way too many
> > people go out of their way to find an excuse to be offended.
ObChamps:
PowWow, the duplicating "Native American" politically correct superhero,
who spends most of his time correcting his teammates (in stereo) than
actually fighting crime. Able to oppose the "Washington Redskins",
the "Fighting Illini", the "Cleveland Indians" and the "Atlanta Braves"
all at the same time.
Recently, however, PowWow has considered going into retirement, after
being assaulted by Quantum at a Washington, DC feminist "drum-in" for
not having a female member, since he has no idea how to accomplish that
feat. Rumors of his being a homosexual have been dismissed as just
being a cheap way for him to get around this problem.
DonM.
--
=========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 239-8365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@cmi.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
=========================================================================
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: acronym help
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:57:46 -0500 (EST)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> > The hell with PC, its out dated anyway, thats early 90s crap, hopefully
> > people have grown up since then.
>
> Umm... you WERE around a couple of weeks ago when we had a major flame war
> going because a company used the phrase 'pow wow' for one of its products?
>
> Unfortunately, political correctness is still going strong. Way too many
> people go out of their way to find an excuse to be offended.
>
> Todd
>
Sure, PC can be taken to a foolish extreme (e.g. "waitron"), but I think it
is a small thing to ask for people to be a little bit careful about how their
word choice in order to avoid hurting others.
-Eric
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: Marvel Conversions: Doctor Doom
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:02:21 -0500 (EST)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> >Either way, Doom is horribly scarred today. This has been confirmed
> >numerous times when Doom revealed his face (always at an angle where
> >we couldn't see it) and in close ups where we could see the flesh
> >around his eyes.
You know, I've always wondered about this. You would think that an incredibly
wealthy master of science and magic would be able to arrange some plastic
surgery...
-Eric
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 12:22:45 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: acronym help
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> PowWow, the duplicating "Native American" politically correct superhero,
Actually, I'd prefer "American Indian" if you please.
> who spends most of his time correcting his teammates (in stereo) than
> actually fighting crime. Able to oppose the "Washington Redskins",
> the "Fighting Illini", the "Cleveland Indians" and the "Atlanta Braves"
> all at the same time.
Well sure, I'm a major political activist in my secret ID.
> Recently, however, PowWow has considered going into retirement, after
> being assaulted by Quantum at a Washington, DC feminist "drum-in" for
> not having a female member, since he has no idea how to accomplish that
> feat. Rumors of his being a homosexual have been dismissed as just
> being a cheap way for him to get around this problem.
Like I said. It's gotta be watched depending on your players.
Insulting them will just make you have less players -- and what good does
that do?
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:32:07 -0800
From: mcallahan <mcallahan@home.com>
Reply-To: mcallahan@home.com
Subject: Baseball
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>I'm sorry, perhaps you could help me understand why this isnt hard. How do
>you simulate someone hitting a baseball with a bat, or throwing to 2nd base
>before the runner gets there? Please dont say PS rolls, this should be
>possible to simulate in combat... its come up before, but not using those terms.
>
>After all, the comment came up with someone trying to determine the DCV of a
>baseball at 100 yards... try to hit a glove at 60'6" while curving the pitch...
A). Pro Pitchers who are payed to do nothing but play baseball probably
have
lots of levels with baseballs (9pts in range levels and there's no range
mod)
B). The glove is trying to be hit, so it's DCV is going to be negative,
and
then there are the catchers level with catiching the ball making it
eaiser.
Heck you might even give the catcher missle reflection (he does throw it
back
after all) then the pitcher needs no skill what so ever as the worse the
pitchers OCV, the eaiser it is for the catcher to catch the ball.
And then theres the batter, he's just trying to use his missle
deflection
(OAF:bat) to block for the catcher.
And next week I'll do water polo (which gets quite pricey when you have
to
buy LS:underwater breathing for all the horses)
mcallahan@home.com
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:40:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Question on Disads
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Mike Lehmann wrote:
> One of my players in my PBEM game has:
>
> 15 Enraged (When women or children are attacked, Common, 14-,
> 8- to recover)
>
> If he is forced into combat with a female (or child) opponent, what
> would you say happens? He obviously cannot get Enraged and attack
> himself... I've been treating it as a 15 point Psych Limitation (Cannot
> attack women or children, Common, Strong) for this type of situation.
>
> Does anyone have any other suggestions on how to deal with this, and if
> there is any logical way to circumvent/buy down this disad?
>
First of all, I'd say don't be too logical in dealing with Berserks and
psych lims. I've seen literal-minded GM's and players try to treat these
disadvantages as if the characters were computers processing instructions:
"IF woman is attacked THEN become enraged." Quite often, the wording
chosen is an off-the-cuff attempt by the player to descibe a character's
personality in the space of one line. While as a player, I try to word
these things as accurately as possible, I recognize that some of my
players aren't as consistent in doing so.
In determining the character's appropriate behavior, I'd have to ask WHY
he goes berserk if women or children are attacked. If he's one of those
"criminals killed my family" types, maybe "attacked" means "unprovokedly
attacked", and doesn't really apply to female or juvenile combatants. Of
course, this sort of interpretation should take into account just how
common the player is claiming the situation is.
On the other hand, maybe the character cannot handle the idea of women or
children being attacked, even if they're combatants. In this case, your
treatment of the Enraged as a virtual Psych Lim seems justified, though I
would have let the character just take the Psych Lim for points in the
first place.
I've also been known to interpret these things a little more broadly than
the literal wording to the *disadvantage* of players. Suppose the PC were
to witness a defenseless female alien creature being attacked. She/it
wouldn't be a woman in the strictest sense, but might be similar enough to
trigger the same reflexes.
I've never had an objection from a player for my nonliteral
interpretations, no matter whose favor they were in, as ultimately I was
just keeping things true to the characters' personalities.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: HeroMaker
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 25 Nov 1997 17:15:38 -0500
Lines: 28
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "DC" == David Cooper <raven@castles.com> writes:
DC> Does any one know were you can find updates to HeroMaker. I'm looking
DC> for printer drivers.
You should be able to find them on redoctober.
If not, one option is to use the PostScript printer driver, and use
GhostView to translate that to something your printer can understand.
GhostView supports many more printers than HeroMaker.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Unusual character concepts : American Star
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 25 Nov 1997 17:20:32 -0500
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To: champ-l@omg.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "q" == qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> writes:
q> Not so easy! At the risk of restarting the 'Immortality' thread, I'd
q> suggest Desolidification, not vs attacks which do 2xBODY (ie instant
q> obliteration), limited such that she appears to take damage normally.
q> Or you could use the Spirit rules.
I still find myself liking the (mis)use of Summon as described in "Mythic
Greece". Yes, it does break the rule that Summon cannot summon a specific
creature -- the PC. Making the allowance for it for this type of effect is
cleaner than the other ideas I have seen thrown about.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:37:46 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: HeroMaker
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 01:20 PM 11/25/97 +0000, David Cooper wrote:
>Hello
>
>Does any one know were you can find updates to HeroMaker. I'm looking
>for printer drivers.
>
>Thanks
It depends largely on what updates/drivers you need. The most recent
stuff is on Red October Online (http://www.redoctober.com) but that's a bit
old, and doesn't cover everything (notably decent drivers for Canon
printers).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: wbandsis@mail.westco.net
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:42:42 -0500
From: "C. Badger" <wbandsis@westco.net>
Subject: Re: Question on Disads
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 04:18 11/24/97 -0800, Mike Lehmann wrote:
>One of my players in my PBEM game has:
>
> 15 Enraged (When women or children are attacked, Common, 14-,
> 8- to recover)
>
>If he is forced into combat with a female (or child) opponent, what
>would you say happens? He obviously cannot get Enraged and attack
>himself... I've been treating it as a 15 point Psych Limitation (Cannot
>attack women or children, Common, Strong) for this type of situation.
>
>Does anyone have any other suggestions on how to deal with this, and if
>there is any logical way to circumvent/buy down this disad?
>
>Note: The hero in question is a martial artist with Nerve Strike, which
>IMO is the only attack he can use on such a foe.
Well he could grab or subdue with non-attack type attacks like a grab.
Taking away weapons is also always an option also. He would just go out of
his way to do non damaging attacks.
-----
C. Badger
My Feet hurt and I've forgotten how to dance.
Londo
Babylon 5
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:30:26 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: HeroMaker
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 02:37 PM 11/25/97 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 01:20 PM 11/25/97 +0000, David Cooper wrote:
>>Hello
>>
>>Does any one know were you can find updates to HeroMaker. I'm looking
>>for printer drivers.
>>
>>Thanks
>
> It depends largely on what updates/drivers you need. The most recent
>stuff is on Red October Online (http://www.redoctober.com) but that's a bit
>old, and doesn't cover everything (notably decent drivers for Canon
>printers).
Oops. That URL should be http://www.october.com -- my mistake. :#]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:18:28 -0700
From: Eric Chaves <rambler@sowest.net>
Subject: Re: 5th Edition Champs
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>Have a general question for the list. If 5th Edition were to become a
>reality and YOU were given the task of WRITING it. What changes, new powers,
>new advantages, new rules, etc would you make to Champs 4th?
I would split the Computer Skills into two skills, Computer Operations and
Computer Programming. Both based on INT.
Computer Operations would allow you to use computer applications, games, etc.
Computer Programming lets you write the computer applications.
Geek Code
****************************************************************************
GCS d++ H s:+ !g !p au+ a- w++ v++ C++++ UL+ P? L+ 3- E? N+++ K- W--- M++ !V
po--- Y+ t++ 5 j R++ G'' tv++ b++ D++ B--- e- u** h+ f+ r n+ y**
****************************************************************************
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:44:50 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: 5th Edition Champs
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 09:18 PM 11/25/97 -0700, Eric Chaves wrote:
>I would split the Computer Skills into two skills, Computer Operations and
>Computer Programming. Both based on INT.
>
>Computer Operations would allow you to use computer applications, games,
>Computer Programming lets you write the computer applications.
I've always considered 1 pt. of Computer Programming to act as "Computer
Operations", in the same way that a Transport Familiarity is roughly equal
to 1 pt. of Combat Pilot or Driving.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:53:02 -0600 (CST)
X-Sender: baron@mail.stlnet.com
From: Rob Kemp <baron@mail.stlnet.com>
Subject: FBI report on Ritual/"Satanic" Abuse
Cc: champ-l@omg.org, Collie <collie@netcom.com&>
Scott Ruggels <scott.ruggels@3do.com>
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 07:54 24 10 97 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> (It's also pretty clear, especially from his opening comments under "The
>Satanic Cult Conspiracy," that he doesn't know what he's talking about when
>it comes to factual matters. Any cop I've ever been in contact with and
>discussed the topic with knows for an absolute fact that there really are
>Satanists out there making blood sacrifices, and sometimes human
>sacrifices.
Many of the law enforcement officers I've spoken to also "knows for an
absolute fact that" role-playing games are a tool of the devil. Like
yourself, I think it is important to discount the "conventional widsom" of
any group without evidence.
>Shomashak wrote it off as paranoid superstitious poppycock,
>and as far as I can tell did so without doing any research on the matter at
>all.)
I can't comment on anything written by the "Shomashak" person you mention,
but as to available research, you might start here:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_study.htm
They also have a copy of a comprehensive FBI study of childhood ritual
abuse: Kenneth V. Lanning, "Investigator's Guide to Allegations of 'Ritual'
Child Abuse", Behavioral Science Unit, National Center for the Analysis of
Violent Crime, Federal Bureau of Investigation, FBI Academy, Quantico,
Virginia 22135 (1992) <http://www.religioustolerance.org/fbi_01.htm>
Kenneth Lanning is a Supervisory Special Agent at the FBI Academy in
Virginia who has combated the sexual victimization of children since 1981.
He police forces. works at the FBI Behavioral Science Unit which assists
police forces throughout the US. The group is often called in as consultants
by local and state police forces.
A short quote from the conclusion of the report:
For at least eight years American law enforcement has been aggressively
investigating the allegations of victims of ritual abuse. There is little or
no evidence for the portion of their allegations that deals with large-scale
baby breeding, human sacrifice, and organized satanic conspiracies.
Hope this helps people find the relevant research and draw their own
conclusions.
-- Bob
>>>> [Modern Education] has produced a vast population able to read but
unable to distinguish what is worth reading, an easy prey to sensations and
cheap appeals. -- G. M. Trevelyan (1942) <<<<
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:56:12 -0600 (CST)
X-Sender: baron@mail.stlnet.com
From: Rob Kemp <baron@mail.stlnet.com>
Subject: 5th Edition Champs
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Have a general question for the list. If 5th Edition were to become a
reality and YOU were given the task of WRITING it. What changes, new powers,
new advantages, new rules, etc would you make to Champs 4th?
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:40:42 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
CC: hero-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: 5th Edition Champs
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> Have a general question for the list. If 5th Edition were to become a
> reality and YOU were given the task of WRITING it. What changes, new powers,
> new advantages, new rules, etc would you make to Champs 4th?
I would:
1. Add an advantage called "Advantaged" which would be the exact counterpart
to "Limited".
2. Rewrite Regeneration to be based on moving how often you get Body
recoveries up or down
the time chart. Then add an option for regenerating past death and regrowing
severed/lost body parts.
3. Add in some actual solid in game uses for COM.
4. Change 'Change Environment' to have some better in-game applications,
and/or make it easier to
cover larger areas.
5. Introduce some options for long-range movement, like a super-sonic flight
or global/Interplanetary
Teleport.
6. Raise the basic point level without raising the basic power level to
account for the fact that there
are more skills available than there where when the 250 limit was set in 3rd
edition. Give guidlines
for how to do higher or lower power levels.
7. Steal a few of the advatages from GURPS, like Richocet.
8. Add more disads. One's like Duty, Addiction (unlike dependancy, doesn't do
damage, is an offshoot
of either psych or phys).
9. Add in a 'Quirks' system like that in GURPS
10. Add a section discussing diferent styles of Super Hero gaming.
11. Publish the Rules in a Hero System Book, and the Champions Source
Material in a book on
the size of that used for Fantasy Hero.
12. Consult fans on the net and elsewhere for ideas which may be better than
mine.
Well, I think that's it for now. Off the top of my head at least that's what
I've got.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:45:18 -0600
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: 5th Edition Champs
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Oh god... PLEASE, lets DONT do this again!!
if you are really interested in this Rob, I believe someone here on the list has
compiled a list of the things suggested the last 4 or 5 times we re-hashed this
subject to death.
Todd
Rob Kemp wrote:
> Have a general question for the list. If 5th Edition were to become a
> reality and YOU were given the task of WRITING it. What changes, new powers,
> new advantages, new rules, etc would you make to Champs 4th?
From: HTC0NY@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 01:40:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Ranged Martial Arts
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
my two monetary units worth:
In a message dated 97-11-24 09:47:59 EST, you write:
> (1) Stretching, with the special effect of the winds reaching out and
> smacking around opponents.
This could work very well, depending on the conception, esp. if you add
Invisible Effects.
> (2) TK with fine control, same special effect.
TK has been combined with Martial Arts in official Hero products (q.v. Alien
Enemies). If it provides too much range, you could use a Reduced Range
(-1/4) limitation, or even Reduced By Range (-1/4).
patric
patricr@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/morpheusxx
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Write-Up Page
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:41:20 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> >what is the current URL for the Champions Write-Up Page?
> >
> I'm not Sam, but...
>
> http://www.mactyre.net/scm/deejay/champs/writeups.html
>
> There are still some links that head back to cu-online, but I'm hopefully
> going to have everything fixed ASAP. It's a remarkably big site, and I'm
> honored to host it.
>
> Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
Point of curiosity here;
Why was it moved from cu-online to your site?
Rook --- Incoherent Thinking Specialist
Also known as Arcady on #herochat, #Fuzionchat, #gurps, #V&V,
and #SuperHeroChat in DALnet IRC
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:29:48 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> At 03:22 AM 11/26/97 -0800, Filksinger wrote:
> >I realize that man is part of his environment, but this is going too
> >far. Under the assumption you seem to be making, I could make an Area
> >Effect Cosmetic Transformation only a Change Environment, with people
> >changing back if they leave the area.
>
> Call me silly, but this sounds to me like a legitimate application, at
> least mechanically. (It would need an appropriate SFX, though -- probably
> some sort of advanced magical "illusion.")
>
"Barbie World"
Anybody coming within a certain distance of 'Barbie' is changed to resemble
somthing from "Barbie World". This includes a looks and voice make-over.
Extended time near her will cause a personality shift (major tranformation 1d6 cummulative, linked to the minor). If the personality shift goes through the victim will be compelled to stay near. At this point a permancy effect kicks in (yet another major tranform, this time to make the effects of the previous two permanent, barring a reverse transformation, and to give the victim the
'Barbies World' 'plague-power'.).
Each victim who is successfully hit with the permanency effects also
feels compelled to 'spread the word'. Thus ensuring the enventual take-over
of reality by 'Barbie World'.
I used something like this in HS and managed to get almost all of
San Francisco before my players figured out how to stop it (in that version
I had it all hinging on one key person remaining asleep and dreaming).
You can substitute 'Archie' or 'Mythic Realm' for Barbie, or whatever
other reality is trying to impose itself.
Rook --- Incoherent Thinking Specialist
Also known as Arcady on #herochat, #Fuzionchat, #gurps, #V&V,
and #SuperHeroChat in DALnet IRC
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 03:19:08 -0800
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On Monday, November 24, 1997 7:40 PM, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
>F> Giving you a weapon that, without setting or bracing, will hit a
target
>F> at two and a half football fields away as easily as one close
enough to
>F> spit on. I have a small problem with that.
>
>It's called the Barret Model 80, .50 anti-armor sniper rifle.
Effective
>range against lightly armored targets (people) is on the order of 2.5
>miles.
Using the scope, taking time to set _and_ brace, _and_ using a bipod.
In Champions, a character can hear a man behind him in one segment,
turn around, and shoot the man in the next segment without taking time
to use the sights (1 second, roughly) without penalty, or with only
a -1, if you consider turning around to be a movement and thus giving
you the half-move penalty.
Try that with a Barret Model 80, .50 anti-armor sniper rifle at six
feet, then at over 500 feet. Sorry, I don't buy it. Distance matters.
Now, if you want to have those +10 RMods used only with setting or
bracing, go right ahead.
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 03:22:29 -0800
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On Monday, November 24, 1997 8:09 PM, Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 11/24/97 4:04:31 PM, filkhero@usa.net wrote:
>>Absolutely correct. And as soon as I find a power that is
specifically
>>for reducing density, I'll be glad to drop all ideas of "no-size
>>shrinking".
>
>Like, Change Environment, perhaps?
>
I realize that man is part of his environment, but this is going too
far. Under the assumption you seem to be making, I could make an Area
Effect Cosmetic Transformation only a Change Environment, with people
changing back if they leave the area.
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Question on Disads
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 03:42:17 -0800
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On Tuesday, November 25, 1997 1:21 PM, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
<snip>
>First of all, I'd say don't be too logical in dealing with Berserks
and
>psych lims. I've seen literal-minded GM's and players try to treat
these
>disadvantages as if the characters were computers processing
instructions:
>"IF woman is attacked THEN become enraged." Quite often, the wording
>chosen is an off-the-cuff attempt by the player to descibe a
character's
>personality in the space of one line. While as a player, I try to
word
>these things as accurately as possible, I recognize that some of my
>players aren't as consistent in doing so.
This is especially true when one realizes just how silly the literal
wording of Berserk is. Under the wording in every version I have ever
seen, if a woman with a bloody nose were to run up to a hero with
"Berserk at the sight of blood" Disadvantage to ask for help, he would
then beat her up! <G>
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Unusual character concepts : American Star
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 03:45:04 -0800
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On Tuesday, November 25, 1997 1:51 PM, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
<snip>
>I still find myself liking the (mis)use of Summon as described in
"Mythic
>Greece". Yes, it does break the rule that Summon cannot summon a
specific
>creature -- the PC. Making the allowance for it for this type of
effect is
>cleaner than the other ideas I have seen thrown about.
>
I'm not too keen on this idea, but it has merit. I always thought the
absolute prohibition on Summoning specific beings was excessive. Have
you ever tried to write up the ability to summon "Hero X" without it?
WAY overpriced.
Filksinger
From: HTC0NY <HTC0NY@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:44:10 EST
Subject: Champions Write-Up Page
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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Sam Bell, et. al.:
what is the current URL for the Champions Write-Up Page?
thanks,
patric
patricr@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/patricr
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 06:08:23 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: 5th Edition Champs
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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At 10:56 PM 11/25/97 -0600, Rob Kemp wrote:
>Have a general question for the list. If 5th Edition were to become a
>reality and YOU were given the task of WRITING it. What changes, new powers,
>new advantages, new rules, etc would you make to Champs 4th?
1. Clarifications on all the classic points of debate, misunderstanding,
and derision, particularly Linked but also certain aspects of
Desolidification, Transform, Change Environment, Regeneration, Hand to Hand
Attack, etc. For a couple of specifics: a. Someone on the list has a
reworking of Hand to Hand Attack that makes it much closer in function as
well as cost to Energy Blast. b. Adapt Fuzion's version of Regeneration --
make it a +1/4 Advantage to REC to bring recovery of BODY up one step on
the Time Chart.
2. Inclusion of all of the special new rules from the Ultimate books,
genre books, and Almanacs, except of course those which have not been
widely well received (such as the Spirit rules from HSA1 and Horror Hero).
3. New rules which are already widely used anyway, such as Quirks.
4. For campaigning purposes, a sketch outline of the Champions Universe,
including short write-ups of all of the historically most popular villains
(not just Mechanon, VIPER, and a bunch of mercenaries, but Dr. Destroyer,
Foxbat, the Ultimates, PSI, and Genocide as well -- and maybe even the
Coalition).
5. I'd also do what you're doing right now -- ask people on the Mailing
List what changes should be in the 5th Edition.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 06:19:17 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 03:22 AM 11/26/97 -0800, Filksinger wrote:
>I realize that man is part of his environment, but this is going too
>far. Under the assumption you seem to be making, I could make an Area
>Effect Cosmetic Transformation only a Change Environment, with people
>changing back if they leave the area.
Call me silly, but this sounds to me like a legitimate application, at
least mechanically. (It would need an appropriate SFX, though -- probably
some sort of advanced magical "illusion.")
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
From: Legionair@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:08:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Marvel Conversions: Doctor Doom
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
In a message dated 97-11-25 10:34:14 EST, you write:
<<Nope--no No-Prize for you, sir. . .:> Sue saw Doom's face unmasked in FF
#236--but it was his current, horribly scarred face. In FF #278, we see Doom
after he was expelled from State U., when he's looking at himself in the
mirror, and Byrne first shows us the tiny scar. . .which story is very
plausible if you know anything of Doom's personality. . .>>
This was the one bit that I wasn't absolutely sure about. I think Sue is the
one Marvel character who has seen Victor's face the most often. It's funny
how she's always shocked about it too.
I remember Sue seeing his face when the FF were shrunk down and put it
"Liddleville" (?) (he was playing piano at the time). It was hinted that
this was only a Doom-bot though and that his face wasn't scarred as badly.
I believe they also encountered a Doom-bot inside Liddleville who's face was
not scarred at all.
Around the same time Sue did manage another look at his face at which point
his face was totally scarred as well.
In all honesty, this is probably going to be one of those plot points that
gets changed and revisited repeatedly. There's just too much margin for
error with all of these robot doppelgangers, clones, supposed deaths, and
alternate reality doubles from the future. :)
Jason
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:43:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Revised Change Environment (Was Re: 5th Edition Champs)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Rook wrote:
>
> 4. Change 'Change Environment' to have some better in-game applications,
> and/or make it easier to
> cover larger areas.
>
Here's my house rule to do this:
Change Environment
A character with this Standard Power can alter or add to the general
conditions in an area. The character could, for instance, create light in
a certain area, change the temperature, or cover the ground with ice. The
character can change the environment in one hex for 5 Character Points;
this radius can be doubled for +5 points. To use Change Environment counts
as a Constant attack, and the Power can be used at range. At the base
level, Change Environment does not have any direct effect on combat,
though with the GM's permission it may have combat effects under
particular circumstances or do measurable damage over long periods.
If the player wants definite game effects from the power, the cost is
increased by the following:
+1 point (cumulative)
+/- 1" Terminal Velocity (minimum 0")
+/- 1" to Turn Mode`
+/- 1 to one sense PER Roll for a particular purpose
or under certain circumstances (e.g. Sight Roll to identify someone)
2 points (cumulative)
+/- 1 to one sense PER roll
+/- 1 to PER rolls for a Sense Group for one purpose or under certain`
circumstances
+/- 1 to one Characteristic Roll for a particular purpose (e.g. DEX Roll
while using hands)
+/- 1 to a particular Skill Roll
+3 Points (cumulative)
+/- 1 to one Characteristic Roll and any Skill Rolls based on that
Characteristic`
+/- 1 to PER roll for one Sense Group
+/- 1 Ranged OCV
+/- 1" Falling Acceleration (minimum 0")
+4 Points (cumulative)
+/- 1" to one Movement Power (including Leaping and Being Thrown,
separately)
+/- 1" Knockback
+5 Points (cumulative)
+/- 1 OCV
+/- 1 DCV
10 points (cumulative)
+/- 1 Encumbrance level (only for campaigns using Encumbrance rules)
10 points (noncumulative)
+/- 1d6 to KB Roll
Movement with no turn mode normally gets a turn mode.
15 points (noncumulative)`
x1/2 OCV
x1/2 DCV
0 Ranged OCV Fall (as O STR Martial Throw: target may take v/5 damage)
30 points (noncumulative)
0 OCV
0 DCV
Other effects of the power may be assigned a cost by comparison with the
above list. Under no circumstances should Change Environment directly
inflict damage or duplicate the effects of another Power. GM's should
watch for abuses of this power, and pay particular attention to its
effects on OCV and DCV; Change Environment's modification should be
taken into account when applying campaign CV limits to the character.
A character must specify the effects of Change Environment when purchasing
the Power. To be able to vary the effects of Change Environment is a +1
Power Advantage. This Advantage may even allow the player to reconfigure
the combat effects of the Power to any of a set of configurations defined
when the power is purchased; each such configuration (and the total
number allowed) requires GM approval. These varied effects must still fit
into a tight group of special effects - the character cannot use the Power
to create any environment.
Examples:
8" Radius Ice Field (5+): x1/2 DCV, DEX Roll Reduces Penalty to -1 DCV
(-1/2)
(10), -1d6 to KB Roll (10), Fall, DEX Roll to Avoid (-1/2) (10), x8
Radius (15). Total Cost = 50
16" Radius Mist (5+): -2 to Sight Rolls to Identify Someone (2), -2 to
Sight PER Rolls (4), x16 Radius (20). Total Cost = 31
Change Environment Cost: 5 point base, x2 Radius for +5 points. See Table
for additional effects. Minimum cost 10 points. A character can vary the
environment to other set configurations for a +1 advantage. Maximum Range
is points x5 inches. Change Environment is a constant power.
X-Sender: scm@mail.aci.net
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:46:06 -0800
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <shelley@mactyre.net>
Subject: Re: Champions Write-Up Page
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 08:44 AM 11/26/97 EST, HTC0NY wrote:
>
>
>Sam Bell, et. al.:
>
>what is the current URL for the Champions Write-Up Page?
>
>thanks,
>patric
I'm not Sam, but...
http://www.mactyre.net/scm/deejay/champs/writeups.html
There are still some links that head back to cu-online, but I'm hopefully
going to have everything fixed ASAP. It's a remarkably big site, and I'm
honored to host it.
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
www.mactyre.net
Your children will see the stars.
--Robert A. Heinlein
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Mail-Copies-To: never
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Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 26 Nov 1997 11:59:45 -0500
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "F" == Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> writes:
>> It's called the Barret Model 80, .50 anti-armor sniper rifle. Effective
>> range against lightly armored targets (people) is on the order of 2.5
>> miles.
F> Using the scope, taking time to set _and_ brace, _and_ using a bipod.
Which someone on a firing range would do. I know I do.
[...]
F> Try that with a Barret Model 80, .50 anti-armor sniper rifle at six
F> feet, then at over 500 feet. Sorry, I don't buy it. Distance matters.
Well... there is one small problem with the example... the Model 80 is more
than 6 feet long and requires a two-man crew to port it. :)
Besides, you're changing things around on me, here. When it was, "hit a
baseball at 6 feet (from the muzzle) being as easy as hitting a baseball at
1000 feet," the Model 80 is a weapon that can do it. It really is that
accurate.
Now you want to use a long-range sniper's weapon at knife range. Me, I'd
use it as a very long club.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:49:07 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: McAfee
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Filksinger wrote:
> In Champions, a character can hear a man behind him in one segment,
> turn around, and shoot the man in the next segment without taking time
> to use the sights (1 second, roughly) without penalty, or with only
> a -1, if you consider turning around to be a movement and thus giving
> you the half-move penalty.
-1 OCV from a half move is no longer an issue.
Our group kept that for quite some time too. I'll most likely never
go to Champs 4 range mods.
With the subject at hand though. I think time bonuses and just the
general stress of not being in actual combat should give plusses.
I think the stress portion is a lot harder to gauge for game play
though. If you're going to be blowing somebodies head off at 1000
yards, it's not going to be much different than shooting a honeydew
melon. (PS: Assasin 11-; maybe not...)
So let's just extend the set bonuses. Currently you get +1 for taking a
phase. Another +1 for a round, etc... for each time step. Of course if
you give a bonus for an hour, that's more of a setup bonus than sitting
there aiming the entire time.
-mark
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"Stainless Steel Rat\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 97 21:18:09
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Unusual character concepts : American Star
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On 25 Nov 1997 17:20:32 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>>>>>> "q" == qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> writes:
>
>q> Not so easy! At the risk of restarting the 'Immortality' thread, I'd
>q> suggest Desolidification, not vs attacks which do 2xBODY (ie instant
>q> obliteration), limited such that she appears to take damage normally.
>q> Or you could use the Spirit rules.
>
>I still find myself liking the (mis)use of Summon as described in "Mythic
>Greece". Yes, it does break the rule that Summon cannot summon a specific
>creature -- the PC. Making the allowance for it for this type of effect is
>cleaner than the other ideas I have seen thrown about.
For cheating death, yes, but it doesn't really fit too well here.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:31:44 -0600 (CST)
X-Sender: psansone@i1.net
From: psansone@i1.net (Sparx)
Subject: Vampire: The Masquerade...
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Hey I was wondering, actually, I wasn't, my wife was. Has anyone ever
converted Vampire the Masquerade powers over to Hero Format? If so, could
you e-mail them out private or over the list? Thanks and talk at you later.
Sparx
=====================================================
Dog for sale: eats anything and is fond of children.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Check out #herochat on DALnet an IRC for Champions Conversation
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:13:12 -0800
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On Wednesday, November 26, 1997 5:53 AM, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 03:22 AM 11/26/97 -0800, Filksinger wrote:
>>I realize that man is part of his environment, but this is going too
>>far. Under the assumption you seem to be making, I could make an
Area
>>Effect Cosmetic Transformation only a Change Environment, with
people
>>changing back if they leave the area.
>
> Call me silly, but this sounds to me like a legitimate
application, at
>least mechanically. (It would need an appropriate SFX, though --
probably
>some sort of advanced magical "illusion.")
Unfortunately, that may well be a valid use. Bad example.
However, Change Environment to create "Density Decrease" is very
similar to using Change Environment for Shapechange, which is not
valid.
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:27:59 -0800
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On Wednesday, November 26, 1997 8:36 AM, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
<snip>
>
>F> Using the scope, taking time to set _and_ brace, _and_ using a
bipod.
>
>Which someone on a firing range would do. I know I do.
Yes. And I have no problem with giving it the Rmods _when using braced
and set_. My objection is giving it the Rmods outright, which would
allow it to ignore range when using "point and shoot", no sights, no
bracing.
>[...]
>
>F> Try that with a Barret Model 80, .50 anti-armor sniper rifle at
six
>F> feet, then at over 500 feet. Sorry, I don't buy it. Distance
matters.
>
>Well... there is one small problem with the example... the Model 80
is more
>than 6 feet long and requires a two-man crew to port it. :)
>
>Besides, you're changing things around on me, here. When it was,
"hit a
>baseball at 6 feet (from the muzzle) being as easy as hitting a
baseball at
>1000 feet," the Model 80 is a weapon that can do it. It really is
that
>accurate.
>
>Now you want to use a long-range sniper's weapon at knife range. Me,
I'd
>use it as a very long club.
I don't want to use it at that range. I am only saying that the Rmods
on a sniper rifle should require braced and set to use, or at least
braced _or_ set. Its an old gripe of mine, weapons that are difficult
to use at short range and without aiming (big rifles) have virtually
the ease of use of a pistol and reduced range mods without even aiming
in Hero supplements. Reduced Rmods should require aiming or high tech.
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:36:46 -0800
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Wednesday, November 26, 1997 11:15 AM, Mark Lemming wrote:
<snip>
>
>So let's just extend the set bonuses. Currently you get +1 for taking
a
>phase. Another +1 for a round, etc... for each time step. Of course
if
>you give a bonus for an hour, that's more of a setup bonus than
sitting
>there aiming the entire time.
>
I think that is a good way to do it. I don't mind adding the skill
modifiers to combat abilities, either, under the right circumstances.
After all, the GM can add any plusses or minuses he wants, based upon
environment and situation at will. If the GM chooses to use a plus or
minus identical to a skill mod, so be it.
One of the other things I didn't like about the new Rmods was that a
+2 doubled your effective range. A person who is so good they can
double the effective range of a rifle gets a lot more than a +2 at the
usual range, as a rule, in Real Life. (So I've heard. I haven't
visited Real Life yet.)
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: HeroMaker
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:39:06 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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On Tuesday, November 25, 1997 6:40 PM, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 02:37 PM 11/25/97 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>>At 01:20 PM 11/25/97 +0000, David Cooper wrote:
>>>Hello
>>>
>>>Does any one know were you can find updates to HeroMaker. I'm
looking
>>>for printer drivers.
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>
>> It depends largely on what updates/drivers you need. The most
recent
>>stuff is on Red October Online (http://www.redoctober.com) but
that's a bit
>>old, and doesn't cover everything (notably decent drivers for Canon
>>printers).
>
> Oops. That URL should be http://www.october.com -- my mistake.
:#]
And for those Canon printers, try the Hero Games website. They posted
some last month.
www.herogames.com
Filksinger
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:56:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CHAR: SILVER SCORPION
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
sorry if you get this twice...
+-----------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
|VALUE CHARACTERISTIC COST BASE PTS|NAME: Victoria Jantzen
|
| 15 Strength x1 10 5|HERO ID: SILVER SCORPION
|
| 26 Dexterity x3 10 48|PLAYER:
|
| 25 Constitution x2 10
30|----------------------------------------+
| 11 Body x2 10 2| PTS POWERS
END|
| 16 Intelligence x1 10 6| 22 Multipower (Magic) (30),"sword",
|
| 12 Ego x2 10 4| OIF,extremely hard,0 END
|
| 13 Presence x1 10 3| 1u 2D6 Hand-To-Hand Attack (Magic)
0|
| 16 Comeliness x1/2 10 3| 2u 6D6 Energy Blast (Magic),
|
| 6 Physical Defens x1 3 3| "magnetic ray",stun only,beam
|
| 6 Energy Defense x1 5 1| attack
0|
| 6 Speed x10 3.6 24| 1u 20 STR Telekinesis (Magic),"TK
|
| 9 Recovery x2 8 2| martial Throw",only vs. targets
|
| 50 Endurance x1/2 50 0| of or wearing metal
0|
| 40 Stun x1 32 8| 2u 14 OCV Missile Deflection
|
| Characteristics Cost: 139| (Magic),deflect all attacks
|
+-----------------------------------+ 9 3 Levels: all sword powers,tight
|
|DISADVANTAGES BASE: 150+PTS| group
|
|Hunted,"HYDRA",more powerful, 20| 3 Basic Strike
|
| non-combat influence,harsh, | 4 Martial Block
|
| appear 8- | 3 Weapon Groups,Swords/Blades
|
|Hunted,"the Scorpion",more 15| 4 Martial Disarm
|
| powerful,harsh,appear 8- | 5 Defensive Strike
|
|Reputation,"dingy co-ed",occur 5| 4 Martial Throw,Ranged
|
| 8- | 12 Damage Class +3DC
|
|Public ID,"Victoria Jantzen" 10| 5 1 Levels: martial arts,related
|
|Distinctive Features,"faceted 20| group
|
| eyes, scorpion pack", | 15 Radar Sense (Radiation)
|
| concealable,extreme | 20 Targeting Sense (Radiation),
|
|Physical Limitation,"scorpion 5| Radar
|
| pack permanently on back", | 7 Discriminatory Sense
|
| infrequently,slightly | (Radiation),Radar,270' sensing
|
|Vulnerability,"electrical",very 30| 10 +0 STR Clinging (Mutant Powers)
|
| common,x2 stun | 16 8/8 Armor,"reed richards suit",
|
|Psychological Limitation, 15| OIF,personal focus
|
| "overconfident",common,strong | 13 +4" Running,x4 Non-Combat
1|
|Psychological Limitation, 15| 3 WF,Swords
|
| "protective of normals", | 3 Computer Programming 12-
|
| common,strong | 5 5 Flash Defense,Radio Group
|
|Psychological Limitation,"dingy 5| 3 5 Flash Defense,Sight Group,IIF,
|
| co-ed",uncommon,moderate | fragile
|
|Enraged,"when photographed", 18| 3 6 Extra Limbs,"scorpion pack's
|
| very common,occur 14-,recover | legs",0 STR, half-hex reach
|
| 8- | 10 High Range Radio Hearing
|
|Enraged,"normals hurt by 18| 5 Discriminatory Sense,Radio
|
| villains",very common,occur | 17 Mind Link (Magic),"computers or
|
| 14-,recover 8- | arthropods",any one mind,any
|
| | distance,No Range,computers via
|
| | link, scorpions via sword
|
| | 10 15- Universal Translator,only
|
| | computer code or arthropod
|
| | speech,Linked,"to mind link",
|
| | Extra Time,time: 1 turn,only to
|
| | start power
|
| | 5 Radio Transmit/Receive,"JLBama
|
| | cell phone"
|
| | 2 Federal Police Powers,witness
|
| | protection program
|
| |
|
| Disadvantages Total : 176| 224 : Powers Total
|
| Experience Spent + 37| 139 + Characteristic Total
|
| Total Points = 363| 363 = Total Cost
|
+-----------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:56:46 -0500 (EST)
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Growler
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
THE GROWLER [aka Shaggy] Size: 1.8m tall Weight: 253kg Run: 7"/12"
---------------------+-------------------------------------------------------
48 STR -- pts | %% 9 Combat Levels
14 DEX -- pts | %% 1 level growth, 1 level DI
58 CON -- pts | %% 6 pd/ed armor
37 BODY -- pts | %% 2.5d6 HKA, x5 Autofire, Zero-End
14 INT -- pts | %% (2 Claws x2, 1 Bite x1)
18 EGO -- pts | %% +1" running 12" SuperLeap
47 PRE -- pts | %% Half-End on STR
10 COM -- pts | %% 7 pd Armor, Blunt & Martial Arts only
36 PD -- pts | %% Life Support, all except Rad & Eat
36 ED -- pts | %% 10 ed armor, fire & electrical only
4 SPD -- pts | %% 10 ed armor, heat/cold only
33 REC -- pts | %% IR, UV, +5 with PER rolls
74 END -- pts | %% Mental Def (20) Power Def (10) alien physio.
74 STUN -- pts | %% Detect Invisibility (Sniffer Extraordinaire) +5
------------------------%% Detect Magic (irritates eyes) +3
%% Enhanced PER: +6 with Smelling & Sniffing
%% Telepathy, 10 Dice, Penetrating, only to find hostile thoughts
%% Universal Translator, Simple Commands & Concepts only, Friends Only.
Naturalistic Multi-Power:
$$ Dispel, 18 Dice, Vs 1 power with Incantations, 3x Day, range touch
$$ Desolid, Only to escape confinement, not through airtight, hour to start
$$ Invisibility (Sight, Hear, Smell) Only in Woods, Jungle, Fields, etc.
$$ STR Drain, 12 Dice, 3x Day, Requires Grab, Halved vs:Hardened Armor
$$ Mind Control, only vs youth or females, 16 Dice (Be my friend)
$$ Regeneration: 2 Body per day, if adequate meat & grass
Indigestion Multi-power:
Six Times a Day, Growler can pass gas for effect. This takes a half-phase
to prepare, and is centered on Growler's hex. these blasts are all 3 Hex
Radius, 2x Day each, Personal Immunity, No Range:
@@ Darkness + Images, Stationery, vs. Smell,Sight,IR,UV,NRay (Foggy Fart)
@@ Energy Blast, 9 Dice NND, vs. Life Sup: Breath (Fetid Fart)
@@ PD Killing Atk, 3 Dice NND, vs. Life Sup: Vacuum (no body) (Fatal Fart)
Skills: Hunting, Tracking, Stealth, Survival, Animal Handling, Breakfall,
Climbing, Concealment, Lipreading, Animal/Bird Mimicry, Paramedic,
Seduction,
Shadowing, KS:Herbalism, AK:Jungle, KS:Zoology (All on 12- or stat bse)
# Berserk: at 10 Body or less (14- go, 8- recover)
# DF: Shaggy, Huge, Smelly, Bestial
# Dependence: a kilogram of meat or blood daily, more is better
# Enraged Versus Magic Using Enemies (14- go, 11- rec)
# Phys Lim: Bulky, Clumsy out of combat
# Phys Lim: non-natural food gives him indigestion & gas (sometimes bad!)
# Psych: Primitive
# Psych: Speaks less than a dozen words a week
# Psych: Superstitious about Wizards, and people who wear jewelry
# Reputation: Cannibal (not true, he's never eaten another shaggy)
# Rivals: Grond, Obsidian, Thing, Garv, Strata, Furball, Blok, etc,etc,etc.
# Susceptibility: 3 Dice PRE Drain per turn: from touching Silver or Gold
# Vulnerability: 1.5 x Stun & Body from Rat Poisons or Antacids
# Watched: by the big shaggy what's up in the sky
Whether Shaggy is a villain or a hero in your campaign depends on who he
meets
first in your world and what crowd he falls in with...
Growler the Shaggy One comes from somewhere very far away and it's easy to
tell he's not from around here. He dislikes wizards, vegetarians, people
bigger than him, people who wear metal, people who wear leather, and people
that talk too much. Shaggy _can_ talk to anyone after observing their
language
for a while, but he seldom chooses speaking as his method of communication.
He can sniff out invisible people, hold his breath for 10 hours, and he can
dispel a power by punching the person activating it in the mouth.
Shaggy can figure out how to escape any jail, figure out who really hates
him,
and figure out how to hide as long as he's outdoors. He's terribly clever,
even though he looks like the stupidest sasquatch that ever left footprints.
---
concept by elliott, with input from joe-x
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Ranged Martial Arts
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 17:03:00 -0800
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On Monday, November 24, 1997 7:21 AM, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 09:51 AM 11/23/97 -0600, Jeff Hebert wrote:
<snip>
>>Apologies if this issue has already been beaten to death by the list
before
>>I joined. Then again, what *hasn't* already been beaten to death by
this
>>list? :-)
>
> Well, Barney hasn't. He keeps moving.
******************************************
Barney the Dinosaur
10 STR 0
2 DEX -24
10 CON 0
20 BODY 20
10 INT 0
10 EGO 0
10 PRE 10
0 COM -5
CHA Total:1
Powers
7 1 lvl. Growth, 0 END, Persistent, Always On
5 +30 COM, only with young children (-2)
15 Perk: Filthy Rich
53 8d6 Mind Control, AE:Radius,16 lvls increased area, Does not need
to
speak commands, 0 END, Persistent, Only vs. young children (-2),
only when children watch Barney on TV, on tape, or in person (-2),
only vs English speaking North Americans (-1/2).
15 Simulate Death (SFX- Turns into a doll)
You may also wish to give him a few million very weak Followers, which
will cost about 60-70 pts.
Other demonic powers, Contacts (TV executive, etc.), the ability to
should be written up by someone without a life, as I won't bother.
Filksinger
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Unusual character concepts : American Star
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 26 Nov 1997 21:34:39 -0500
Lines: 33
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To: champ-l@omg.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "q" == qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> writes:
q> For cheating death, yes, but it doesn't really fit too well here.
You are fixating on the powers rather than the special effects. To wit,
"regeneration" is an effect, but at that extreme -- not only dead but
reduced to nothing more than a few cells -- Regeneration is not a
particularly useful power. That is a lot of "extra Body" to buy to offset
death point to make Regeneration useful.
And how much Body damage does it take to reduce a corpse to a few cells?
By (mis)using Summon -- with "regeneration" for special effects -- in this
fashion you eliminate that question, relegating it to the realm of special
effects.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBNHzcOJ6VRH7BJMxHAQFzGAP+Kv619AD75yLNpC0J8AkGVrJuLK8d221v
0Z1zqxrlLyoe+iY/HpXksqLOLjnsdoOmldNWnLhUWYYruYfhFSqonGUoY5aF5g5W
OgbN8pL3U3k0/8TS5ooIjnfY1ACaGfXDW9hUUFQyuaElCyZ7XPAzfSy7ax+IJqRZ
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=QIm8
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Vampire: The Masquerade...
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:15:54 -0800
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On Wednesday, November 26, 1997 2:02 PM, Sparx wrote:
>Hey I was wondering, actually, I wasn't, my wife was. Has anyone
ever
>converted Vampire the Masquerade powers over to Hero Format? If so,
could
>you e-mail them out private or over the list? Thanks and talk at you
later.
No, but I might. I hadn't really thought of it before.
Hmm.
Filksinger
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:24:53 -0600 (CST)
X-Sender: mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
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>With the subject at hand though. I think time bonuses and just the
>general stress of not being in actual combat should give plusses.
>I think the stress portion is a lot harder to gauge for game play
>though. If you're going to be blowing somebodies head off at 1000
>yards, it's not going to be much different than shooting a honeydew
>melon. (PS: Assasin 11-; maybe not...)
>
>So let's just extend the set bonuses. Currently you get +1 for taking a
>phase. Another +1 for a round, etc... for each time step. Of course if
>you give a bonus for an hour, that's more of a setup bonus than sitting
>there aiming the entire time.
Getting back to the original scene. We didn't have a lot of time to prepare
for each shot, only the first one. After the first shot we had 1 minute to
empty a 30 round clip. There was also a great deal of stress... Not combat
level stress, but stress none the less.
I can also tell you this, targets don't shoot back. The enemy does, which
would you be tring harder to hit?
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine The Superhero RPG Fanzine...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 27 Nov 97 05:56:48 GMT
Subject: Re: Champions Campaign Themes
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
Path: october!michael.adams
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
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I once had a game idea/scenario actually where the heros were a resistance cell
fighting to regain earth from humanoid aliens. The heros were powered like
normal champions games. The earth was different from c.1860 to include the
alien invasion in 1960 or there abouts.
Sort of a combo of Marvel meets V and Sherlock Holmes.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 27 Nov 97 06:01:34 GMT
Subject: acronym help
X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
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Path: october!michael.adams
Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
PMS: Pretty Mean Sister (some change the M and S to less flaterring words)
BITCH: Bravo, It's Time to Kick some He-men Especially Now.
(Bitchen?)
FEM: Female Enforcers against Men.
SLUT: Sister Liberation and Unity Team
Add Super to SLUT and get SLUTS.
Sorry I'm a over sexed masochistic male pervert who exploits women as often as
they will let me.
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:40:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CHAR: Shaggy
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
THE GROWLER [aka Shaggy] Size: 1.8m tall Weight: 253kg Run: 7"/12"
---------------------+-------------------------------------------------------
48 STR -- pts | %% 9 Combat Levels
14 DEX -- pts | %% 1 level growth, 1 level DI
58 CON -- pts | %% 6 pd/ed armor
37 BODY -- pts | %% 2.5d6 HKA, x5 Autofire, Zero-End
14 INT -- pts | %% (2 Claws x2, 1 Bite x1)
18 EGO -- pts | %% +1" running 12" SuperLeap
47 PRE -- pts | %% Half-End on STR
10 COM -- pts | %% 7 pd Armor, Blunt & Martial Arts only
36 PD -- pts | %% Life Support, all except Rad & Eat
36 ED -- pts | %% 10 ed armor, fire & electrical only
4 SPD -- pts | %% 10 ed armor, heat/cold only
33 REC -- pts | %% IR, UV, +5 with PER rolls
74 END -- pts | %% Mental Def (20) Power Def (10) alien physio.
74 STUN -- pts | %% Detect Invisibility (Sniffer Extraordinaire) +5
------------------------%% Detect Magic (irritates eyes) +3
%% Enhanced PER: +6 with Smelling & Sniffing
%% Telepathy, 10 Dice, Penetrating, only to find hostile thoughts
%% Universal Translator, Simple Commands & Concepts only, Friends Only.
Naturalistic Multi-Power:
$$ Dispel, 18 Dice, Vs 1 power with Incantations, 3x Day, range touch
$$ Desolid, Only to escape confinement, not through airtight, hour to start
$$ Invisibility (Sight, Hear, Smell) Only in Woods, Jungle, Fields, etc.
$$ STR Drain, 12 Dice, 3x Day, Requires Grab, Halved vs:Hardened Armor
$$ Mind Control, only vs youth or females, 16 Dice (Be my friend)
$$ Regeneration: 2 Body per day, if adequate meat & grass
Indigestion Multi-power:
Six Times a Day, Growler can pass gas for effect. This takes a half-phase
to prepare, and is centered on Growler's hex. these blasts are all 3 Hex
Radius, 2x Day each, Personal Immunity, No Range:
@@ Darkness + Images, Stationery, vs. Smell,Sight,IR,UV,NRay (Foggy Fart)
@@ Energy Blast, 9 Dice NND, vs. Life Sup: Breath (Fetid Fart)
@@ PD Killing Atk, 3 Dice NND, vs. Life Sup: Vacuum (no body) (Fatal Fart)
Skills: Hunting, Tracking, Stealth, Survival, Animal Handling, Breakfall,
Climbing, Concealment, Lipreading, Animal/Bird Mimicry, Paramedic,
Seduction,
Shadowing, KS:Herbalism, AK:Jungle, KS:Zoology (All on 12- or stat bse)
# Berserk: at 10 Body or less (14- go, 8- recover)
# DF: Shaggy, Huge, Smelly, Bestial
# Dependence: a kilogram of meat or blood daily, more is better
# Enraged Versus Magic Using Enemies (14- go, 11- rec)
# Phys Lim: Bulky, Clumsy out of combat
# Phys Lim: non-natural food gives him indigestion & gas (sometimes bad!)
# Psych: Primitive
# Psych: Speaks less than a dozen words a week
# Psych: Superstitious about Wizards, and people who wear jewelry
# Reputation: Cannibal (not true, he's never eaten another shaggy)
# Rivals: Grond, Obsidian, Thing, Garv, Strata, Furball, Blok, etc,etc,etc.
# Susceptibility: 3 Dice PRE Drain per turn: from touching Silver or Gold
# Vulnerability: 1.5 x Stun & Body from Rat Poisons or Antacids
# Watched: by the big shaggy what's up in the sky
Whether Shaggy is a villain or a hero in your campaign depends on who he
meets
first in your world and what crowd he falls in with...
Growler the Shaggy One comes from somewhere very far away and it's easy to
tell he's not from around here. He dislikes wizards, vegetarians, people
bigger than him, people who wear metal, people who wear leather, and people
that talk too much. Shaggy _can_ talk to anyone after observing their
language
for a while, but he seldom chooses speaking as his method of communication.
He can sniff out invisible people, hold his breath for 10 hours, and he can
dispel a power by punching the person activating it in the mouth.
Shaggy can figure out how to escape any jail, figure out who really hates
him,
and figure out how to hide as long as he's outdoors. He's terribly clever,
even though he looks like the stupidest sasquatch that ever left footprints.
---
concept by elliott, with input from joe
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:40:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: 5th Edition Champs
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
In a message dated 11/26/97 8:43:44 AM, rook@infinex.com wrote:
>3. Add in some actual solid in game uses for COM.
a) Certain situational modifiers for PRE attacks versus opposite sex.
b) Certain modifiers to Psych Disads.
c) Modifiers to certain skills, e.g. seduction, persuasion, fast-talk.
d) ....uh ...uh...
Anybody got any else? That's all we use here.
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:40:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: Question on Disads
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
In a message dated 11/26/97 7:11:08 AM, filkhero@usa.net wrote:
>seen, if a woman with a bloody nose were to run up to a hero with
>"Berserk at the sight of blood" Disadvantage to ask for help, he would
>then beat her up! <G>
Or like the players that argued with me:
I had a villain with Psych: Hates Color Red.
So boy genius PC uses Cosmetic Transform to change
all villain costumes to Red.
Then they got pissed when I didn't make
said villain go berserk, attacking teammates.
--
Elliott
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:40:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
In a message dated 11/26/97 7:11:02 AM, filkhero@usa.net wrote:
>>>for reducing density, I'll be glad to drop all ideas of "no-size
>>shrinking".
>>Like, Change Environment, perhaps?
Change environment, AE One Hex, Selective Fire,
changes object's density to near zero.
game effects:
throw weight changes dramatically,
stealth bonuses perhaps, knockback quadrupled,
fine manipulation ability lost,
there's probably more I'm not hinking of...
you can't go much farther because then you've
got to start buying desolid.
And what if you get tossed out of a plane then? :)
--
Elliott
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:40:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
PLAYER:____YOURSELF_______________
REALISTIX
BODY: _____
DNPC's:_________________________________________|
COM: _____
Psych:__________________________________________|
CON: _____
Psych:__________________________________________|
DEX: _____
Physic:_________________________________________|
ED: _____
Physic:_________________________________________|
EGO: _____
Enraged:________________________________________|
END: _____
Enraged:________________________________________|
INT: _____
Susc:___________________________________________|
PD: _____
Vuln:___________________________________________|
PRE: _____
Dist.Feat:______________________________________|
REC: _____
Unluck:_________________________________________|
SPD: _____ Rivalry:________________________________________
|
STR: _____
Other:__________________________________________|
STUN: _____
Other:__________________________________________|
AreaKno:_________________________
AreaKno:__________________________________
AreaKno:_________________________
Science:__________________________________
Bureaucratics::__________________
Conversation:_____________________________
Deduction:_______________________
Electronix::______________________________
Gaming::_________________________
Etiquette::_______________________________
KnowS:___________________________
AreaKno:__________________________________
KnowS:___________________________
KnowS:____________________________________
KnowS:___________________________
KnowS:____________________________________
Language:________________________
Language:_________________________________
Science:_________________________
Mechanics::_______________________________
Science:_________________________ Science:_________________________________
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Streetwise::_____________________
Language:_________________________________
Systems Ops:_____________________ Computer
Prog:____________________________
Talent:__________________________
Talent:___________________________________
Transport Fam::__________________
Gambling::________________________________
PerK:____________________________
PerK:_____________________________________
PerK:____________________________
PerK:_____________________________________
Follower:_____________________________________________________________________
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Follower:_____________________________________________________________________
_
Base/Home:____________________________________________________________________
_
Gun:_______________ Radio:__________________
Device:_________________________
Gun:_______________ Radio:__________________
Device:_________________________
Gun:_______________ Radio:__________________
Device:_________________________
Vehicle:___________ Computer:_______________
Device:_________________________
Vehicle:___________ Computer:_______________
Device:_________________________
Vehicle:___________ Phone:__________________
Device:_________________________
Vehicle:___________ Phone:__________________
Device:_________________________
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Sit down, take five minutes, fill this out, mail it back to the list.
Only write down things you really own, really know, etc.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:45:27 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
<A character sheet snipped for brevities sake.>
Why are the stats in apparent random order? Actually the whole thing
came out rather wierd due to formatting.
I'd fill it out, but it would just point out that I haven't updated my
resume lately. Not that I put my gaming knowledge, how many HTH
levels I've got, or triavial knowledge of explosives on my resume.
And never put your disads on a resume. They don't like seeing
procrastination sitting there as a 15 pointer.
Other trivial stuff. During college I was a normal. 10 in stats (well
maybe not dex) and was 1 hex tall and 100kg. Champs 3 terms.
-Mark
X-Sender: wbandsis@mail.westco.net
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:34:07 -0500
From: "C. Badger" <wbandsis@westco.net>
Subject: Re: Champions Write-Up Page
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Did you zip those up so I could fix the references for you? I don't recall
seeing an email on that.
At 07:46 11/26/97 -0800, Shelley Chrystal Mactyre wrote:
>http://www.mactyre.net/scm/deejay/champs/writeups.html
>
>There are still some links that head back to cu-online, but I'm hopefully
>going to have everything fixed ASAP. It's a remarkably big site, and I'm
>honored to host it.
>
>Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
>www.mactyre.net
>
>Your children will see the stars.
>--Robert A. Heinlein
>
>
-----
C. Badger
My Feet hurt and I've forgotten how to dance.
Londo
Babylon 5
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 05:26:48 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Question on Disads
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 01:40 AM 11/27/97 -0500, Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 11/26/97 7:11:08 AM, filkhero@usa.net wrote:
>>seen, if a woman with a bloody nose were to run up to a hero with
>>"Berserk at the sight of blood" Disadvantage to ask for help, he would
>>then beat her up! <G>
>
>Or like the players that argued with me:
>I had a villain with Psych: Hates Color Red.
>
>So boy genius PC uses Cosmetic Transform to change
>all villain costumes to Red.
>
>Then they got pissed when I didn't make
>said villain go berserk, attacking teammates.
It was a Psych Limit, not a Berserk. Had I been GM, I would've had the
villain get pissed at the PC who caused the problem.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 05:35:27 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Unusual character concepts : American Star
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 09:34 PM 11/26/97 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>> "q" == qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> writes:
>
>q> For cheating death, yes, but it doesn't really fit too well here.
>
>You are fixating on the powers rather than the special effects. To wit,
>"regeneration" is an effect, but at that extreme -- not only dead but
>reduced to nothing more than a few cells -- Regeneration is not a
>particularly useful power. That is a lot of "extra Body" to buy to offset
>death point to make Regeneration useful.
>
>And how much Body damage does it take to reduce a corpse to a few cells?
By my reckoning, 3X BODY - 1 (IOW one less than it would take to reduce
the character to negative double original BODY).
>By (mis)using Summon -- with "regeneration" for special effects -- in this
>fashion you eliminate that question, relegating it to the realm of special
>effects.
I tend to agree here.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 05:37:29 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 11:45 PM 11/26/97 -0800, Mark Lemming wrote:
>Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>
><A character sheet snipped for brevities sake.>
>
>Why are the stats in apparent random order? Actually the whole thing
>came out rather wierd due to formatting.
Actually, after looking at it I saw that the stats aren't in random
order; the Characteristics, at least, are in alphabetical order.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 05:39:16 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: HeroMaker
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 04:39 PM 11/26/97 -0800, Filksinger wrote:
>>> It depends largely on what updates/drivers you need. The most
>recent
>>>stuff is on Red October Online (http://www.redoctober.com) but
>that's a bit
>>>old, and doesn't cover everything (notably decent drivers for Canon
>>>printers).
>>
>> Oops. That URL should be http://www.october.com -- my mistake.
>:#]
>
>And for those Canon printers, try the Hero Games website. They posted
>some last month.
Where? All I can find on the Hero Games site is a link to a link to
GhostScript, and for mysterious reasons that won't work on my computer
(even the new one).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 05:41:01 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Shaggy
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 01:40 AM 11/27/97 -0500, Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>THE GROWLER [aka Shaggy] Size: 1.8m tall Weight: 253kg Run: 7"/12"
[ . . . ]
>Growler the Shaggy One comes from somewhere very far away and it's easy to
>tell he's not from around here. He dislikes wizards, vegetarians, people
>bigger than him, people who wear metal, people who wear leather, and people
>that talk too much....
Oh, darn. When I saw the Subject header, I was hoping this would be the
start of write-ups of Scooby-Doo and the gang.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: scm@mail.aci.net
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 06:16:53 -0800
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <shelley@mactyre.net>
Subject: Re: Champions Write-Up Page
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 07:34 AM 11/27/97 -0500, C. Badger wrote:
>Did you zip those up so I could fix the references for you? I don't recall
>seeing an email on that.
No, that wacky real life thing keeps getting in the way. Probably won't be
happening until after graduation.
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
www.mactyre.net
Your children will see the stars.
--Robert A. Heinlein
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:05:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Thu, 27 Nov 1997 Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 11/26/97 7:11:02 AM, filkhero@usa.net wrote:
> >>>for reducing density, I'll be glad to drop all ideas of "no-size
> >>shrinking".
> >>Like, Change Environment, perhaps?
>
> Change environment, AE One Hex, Selective Fire,
> changes object's density to near zero.
>
> game effects:
> throw weight changes dramatically,
> stealth bonuses perhaps, knockback quadrupled,
> fine manipulation ability lost,
The problem is that effects like this really start to stretch the "no
direct affect on combat" and the optional "slight affect on combat" rules
that are given in the description of Change Environment. Which means that
either
A: Density Decrease would be a good power to create (probably not a
good idea).
B: The wrong powers are being used (how about TK, only to reduce weight?).
C: Change Environment needs to be beefed up as a power and made more
combat useful (which, after seeing the expanded CE power, is my
suggestion).
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:55:05 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Bio-genetic powers
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
How do you simulate the power/effect of acidic blood? Think
ALIEN.
How do you simulate characters that can be 'deconstructed'
(i.e. a clockwork golem that can have their arms removed; the removed
arms cannot function at range)?
How would you simulate a character who starts out fat, gaining
a (very slight) addition to PD, limitations (like reduced movement and END),
and some pounds, but looses the weight when they use their heat based powers.
(For a mutant NPC known as 'Calorie' :) )
-Jason
X-Sender: nolan@pop.erols.com
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:24:55 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@pop.erols.com>
Subject: Fifth Edition Hero System
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Someone asked what people would want out of an hypothetical Fifth Edition.
I'd like to see killing damage be an advantage, raising it's cost higher
than that of normal damage. Otherwise, I either have to outlaw killing
damage or watch as my players buy the more deadly damage for the same value.
Scott
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:47:58 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Bio-genetic powers
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>
> How do you simulate the power/effect of acidic blood? Think
> ALIEN.
Damage Shield, Only when body taken
> How do you simulate characters that can be 'deconstructed'
> (i.e. a clockwork golem that can have their arms removed; the removed
> arms cannot function at range)?\
Physical Limitation.
-Mark
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:25:08 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Reply-To: NOSPAMrook@infinex.com
Subject: Re: Unusual character concepts : American Star
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> >
> >And how much Body damage does it take to reduce a corpse to a few cells?
>
> By my reckoning, 3X BODY - 1 (IOW one less than it would take to reduce
> the character to negative double original BODY).
>
Lets see, by my reckoning of the character who's power started this debate.
I'd say it's morespecial effect than damage amount.
A really big gun is still just splattering cell tissue around. Individual
cells will remain intact no matter what.
However a disruption at the atomic level might do it. But for this
particular character, coming from a
family which survived Hiroshima, that may be something she is immune to
(radiation that is).
Fire might kill all the cells...
The effect I was looking for when designing it way back in V&V was that of
the 'Thing' from the movie of the same name. She regenerated that fast as well.
You could stop her with a knockout, but if if still conscious she could
recover any injury damage in
mere seconds. Even so far as regrouping all those splattered cells together
within a viewable amount of time.
Something I've always had trouble doing in Hero.
Her gravity power I last trid to do using swinging...
Since it works by having her fall towards objects. Flight works, but the
mechanics are a little off.
This is why V&V works better here, as it leaves room to redefine the mechanics
of any power, using it's
body or mutant power.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:38:41 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Wednesday, November 26, 1997 9:45 PM, Rick Holding wrote:
>I must admit that one of the things that really impressed me
>about Champ 4 was the change in range mods. Back in Champ 1-3,
weapons
>and attack powers had relatively large ranges but, at anything beyond
>about 20 metres, you would be lucky to hit the side of a barn. Champ
4
>allows that there is bugger-all difference between 200 yards and 300
>hundred yards which means that you have some chance of effectively
using
>the ranges that the powers gave you.
Under the old rules, an M-16 had a -1/5" and a +2 to hit (I think).
Braced and set both doubled the range modifier _and_ added a +1 to the
OCV. Lastly, levels could be added to the inches in the Rmod or to the
OCV.
Given a man-sized unmoving target (0 DCV) at 500 meters, to have a
50-50 chance to hit it requires a firer with, say, a DEX of 11 and +2
Range levels. This is the same as a U.S. Army rating of Marksman, that
is, to qualify with the weapon. Note that the specified Ranged only
levels, which cost exactly the same as a single regular level. I used
that for the soldier because the U.S. Army are not taught to fire at
moving targets at short range, giving them pluses to their OCV, but at
immobile targets at long range, giving them pluses to their Rmods. All
of this assuming that the adjustable sights on an M-16 are no better
than iron ones.
The problem you are referring to is caused because nobody bought more
than a -1/3" Rmod with their powers. They bought powers with the range
modifiers of a .45 or a 9mm, and then complained that they couldn't
hit people at 200 meters.
BTW, a .45 had a -1/3" Rmod and a +1 OCV. Assume a firer with the same
skill as above, but assuming that he has a single level that can be
added to his OCV or Rmod rather than two added to the Rmod only (same
cost, but people with .45s practice on targets closer up and
frequently practice "point shooting" and similar close range tactics).
Now, because he is trying for a distance target, let him apply that
single level to the Rmod, as that is more efficient and he has a
choice.
Firing at the same man-sized, immobile target, we discover that he
will hit 50% of the time with the .45 automatic that used to be the
Army sidearm at a range of over 250 meters. Ridiculous, of course, but
that is the accuracy of the weapon using the old system.
A system that allows a .45 Army issue automatic to hit 50% of the time
in the hands of a person who "qualified" with it at 250 meters, when
in the real world it is more like 50, is _not_ overly harsh with range
modifiers. I recommend that you increase your power's accuracy, rather
than complain about game mechanics.
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:43:03 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Wednesday, November 26, 1997 10:01 PM, Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 11/26/97 7:11:02 AM, filkhero@usa.net wrote:
>>>>for reducing density, I'll be glad to drop all ideas of "no-size
>>>shrinking".
>>>Like, Change Environment, perhaps?
>
>Change environment, AE One Hex, Selective Fire,
>changes object's density to near zero.
>
>game effects:
>throw weight changes dramatically,
>stealth bonuses perhaps, knockback quadrupled,
>fine manipulation ability lost,
Which would qualify as being fairly significant combat effects, though
not all positive.
It doesn't change the fact that you aren't changing your environment,
you are changing yourself. A power modeled on Change Environment might
be the best way to go for some methods of changing oneself, but Change
Environment specifically changes ones environment, _not_ oneself.
Filksinger
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"Stainless Steel Rat\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 97 22:14:39
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Unusual character concepts : American Star
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On 26 Nov 1997 21:34:39 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>> "q" == qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> writes:
>
>q> For cheating death, yes, but it doesn't really fit too well here.
>
>You are fixating on the powers rather than the special effects.
Quite the reverse, actually.
> To wit,
>"regeneration" is an effect, but at that extreme -- not only dead but
>reduced to nothing more than a few cells -- Regeneration is not a
>particularly useful power. That is a lot of "extra Body" to buy to offset
>death point to make Regeneration useful.
>
>And how much Body damage does it take to reduce a corpse to a few cells?
In my original response I did suggest that the power be ineffective if
it inflicted 2xBODY in one go.
>By (mis)using Summon -- with "regeneration" for special effects -- in this
>fashion you eliminate that question, relegating it to the realm of special
>effects.
True, but that's the beauty of Hero System.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 17:37:35 -0500 (EST)
X-Sender: nexus@uky.campus.mci.net
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Dark Champions PBEM:Recruiting
Cc: mtucke@sanjuan.edu
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
I'm looking for 2-3 new players for Dark Champions style PBEM. Any
interested please respond. Apologies to any that get this twice.
Character creation guidelines:
I hope to make it more similar to the street level comic books most of you
seem used to. Examples would be Silver Sable, Punisher, Vigilante and the
early Spider man. below is a summary of the guidelines I will use in the
campaign. None of these rules is set in stone, however, so write with any
questions you have.
Style: Hi tech Dark Champions
Base points: 150
Disadvantage points: 150
Campaign level : Street level Superheroic
Characteristic maximums: yes
Pay points for equipment: yes
Hit locations: yes
Bleeding, wounding,impairing: No ( except for dramatically apropriate
moments)
levels rngs max
Damage classes: 5-9 10
resistant defense: 0-7 10
non resistant def: 5-15 20
combat values: 5-10 15
skill rolls: 8-/14- 18-
dexterity: 15-20 22
speed: 3-4 5
attack active pts: 20-40 50
power active pts: min-20 40
(The above guidelines will work in the following fashion. You may have one
thing that is at the max or two thing outside the range. Not both.
Everything else must be in the range. )
Setting: The modern world with certain additions. In this world super
heroes, in the sense of masked vigilantes, have existed on and off since
the 20's. These characters tended to be mystery men (and women) who battled
the evils of their time be it prohibition gangsters or the Nazi's of world
War two. Few, if any of these heroes possessed superhuman abilities beyond
courage and the will to fight for their cause. But now they have faded into
the past. most have been consigned to the realm of legend. Only a few
actually fully believe these people existed or that one man can make a
difference.
Your characters will be the new generation of heroes. For
whatever reasons you have chosen to take up the mantle and enter the
shadow war fought every night in the streets. You may be a street smart
vigilante or an idealist crusading for the good of mankind, but you are
joined with your fellows and predecessors in the spirit of heroism.
Characters: As stated in the above, few of the "Mystery Men" possessed
superhuman abilities,or so most people think. Some may have and, as new
characters you are not bound by the past. But when coming up with concepts
try to think on a more " earthly" level than in other super heroes games.
"Powers" will be most often gadgets and superior training.
Good examples would be martial arts "chi" powers or yoga body
control. To reflect the general rarity of unique and paranormal abilities.
Any character may only have one "power", by power I mean an abnormal
ability (natural super senses or flight etc). This will be the hook for the
character and should be explained thoroughly. "Powers" may be groupings of
abilities that simulate a single special effect.
Disadvantages: Required
Secret ID: This doesn't have to be a costumed identity but simulates
that you keep your vigilante nature secret and that people are looking for you.
Normal char maxima: You are all human beings, extremely talented but
human none the less.
Talents: Disallowed
Find weakness: Simply too powerful
Powers: As the system is so diverse I can't give you on overall list of
allowed and disallowed powers, advantages and limits. It will depend on
special effects and justification.
I know violence doesn't solve all problems...
But it sure feels good!
Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 17:20:32 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Mark Lemming wrote:
>
> -1 OCV from a half move is no longer an issue.
> Our group kept that for quite some time too. I'll most likely never
> go to Champs 4 range mods. I must admit that one of the things that really impressed me
about Champ 4 was the change in range mods. Back in Champ 1-3, weapons
and attack powers had relatively large ranges but, at anything beyond
about 20 metres, you would be lucky to hit the side of a barn. Champ 4
allows that there is bugger-all difference between 200 yards and 300
hundred yards which means that you have some chance of effectively using
the ranges that the powers gave you.
As far as throwing a baseball to a base (mentioned in another
post), the THROWER is aiming for a hex, the hex that the catcher is
standing in. This makes it so much easier to catch a ball, particully as
the catcher standing behind the home plate knows fairly well where the
ball is suppost to be aimed at. All he has to do is get the glove in the
line of flight. The batter is set and braced and also knows to a lesser
extent where the ball is going to be passing through. Not being
American, and hence not having much chance playing the game, it still
seems relatively easier to bunt, placing the bat in the line of flight
before the ball is thrown and adjusting up and down. This doesn't seem
to require to high of an OCV to do. A few more skill levels to get a
swing bat at the same place as the ball. (Hmmm, that went a bit longer
than expected. Sorry)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:20:42 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Bio-genetic powers
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> How do you simulate the power/effect of acidic blood? Think
>ALIEN.
HKA with Damage Shield just dosen't do this justice. Blood is drawn
when BODY is taken. However, in the movie ALIENS the characters were a
couple of yards away at certain points and they were still caught in the
acidic gore's path. Also, since the character I'm designing this for is
sentient, he can cut himself and 'bleed' though locks, doors, etc.
Also, this would act as a flaw, because any time the character would 'bleed'
(as per the optional rules), there would be acidic drips.
So, I'm looking for a way to simulate this...
"Hey, that guy we're suppose to kill is above us..."
*Click* -_-Sizzzzle-_- "YAAAAAA!"
...and more "YAAAAAA!"s for anyone else who passes under his bleeding
body.
(BTW, is molecular acid that eats through everything NND? The defense
being desolid or having a specialy constructed molecular acid proof
shield of some kind?)
Hoe much of a Physical Limitation would Deconstruct be? ...and if
you actually 'lost' a limb like this, could you assume it could be 'replaced'
(like a Foci)?
...as for the 'calorie' power, I was thinking a Multipower pool
based off of an END reserve for the fat fuled heat powers. The END reserve
could only be 'replenished' by gaining weight. The problem is how to simulate
'weight gain' (which is most likely a Physical Limitation) that is temporary...
and how to gain the weight back. (Yeah... How would you construct a Temporary
Phys Lim? Side Effects = Physical Limitation, Distincitive Features, minuses
to running, and for the addition PD Only works while fat [or Linked to END
reserve]????
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:29:48 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Odinistic Mercenary
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There is an Odinistic Mercenary in an upcoming game I am running.
He has certain mental-bsed powers in a EC that he developed after going
up with some neo-pagans in the black forest. His abilities are (supposedly)
gifts from Odin himself.
Now, under certain circumstances his powers will not work... for
example, if he does follow his Odinistic tenants (like rituals performed to
the pantheon on regular occasions, staying within certain ethical/moral
boundaries, etc.)
How would you model this? As a Physical Limitation? A susceptibility?
As a straight-on modifier to the power itself? ...or somthing I haven't
thought of?
Also, can anyone here give me stats for two really intelligent grey
wolves, and two incredibally intelligent ravens (namely, the stats for the
animal followers that Odin has). Anyone out there care to take a stab at
that stats for a really kicking Harley hog that's been souped up
(his 'steed').
Tell me what you think...
Jason
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From: Scott Nolan <nolan@pop.erols.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 23:25:17 -0500
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Subject: Re: Fifth Edition Hero Syste
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> h > Someone asked what people would want out of an hypothetical Fifth
> h > Edition.
> h >
> h > I'd like to see killing damage be an advantage, raising it's cost
> h > than that of normal damage. Otherwise, I either have to outlaw
> h > KAs or watch as my players buy the more deadly damage for the same
> h > value.
> h >
> h > Scott
> h > ---
>
>Well, KAs are supposed to be deadlier (ie do more body), but if
>they're playing heros is that what they really want.
Genre arguments don't really solve the problem. If something has more
effect (and since it ignore non-resistant defenses, KA's do have more
effect), it should cost more points.
Scott
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 28 Nov 97 06:41:02 GMT
Subject: Question on Disads
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h > One of my players in my PBEM game has:
h >
h > 15 Enraged (When women or children are attacked, Common, 14-,
h > 8- to recover)
h >
h > If he is forced into combat with a female (or child) opponent, what
h > would you say happens? He obviously cannot get Enraged and attack
I think the obvious thing is for the player to re-phrase the
Enraged to "When *innocent/helpless* women or children..."
h > himself... I've been treating it as a 15 point Psych Limitation
h > (Cannot attack women or children, Common, Strong) for this type of situ
h >
I honestly think that should be a sepparate psych lim
(with the rephrasing above, perhaps).
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
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From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 28 Nov 97 06:44:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
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Yes, 250 yards with a even brand new Army Colt M1911A1 is rediculous. Most
people can not hit at 25 yards let alone what some people can hit at 50 yards
(people who practice can hit possibly 50 yards, and generally that is at a
pistol match. With no one shooting at you and like.
But in the real world the .45 is brobably been around for a while and the sites
have not been zeroed, the bore/barrel is worn down some, the ammo is possibly
old (been in storage for a while), you have just run 100+ yards zigzag, people
are shooting at you, you are getting orders or giving them (45s normally were
officers/NCO weapons, bombs blowing up around you, chances of mines. Maybe even
wearing a protective mask, and you want me to hit more than 25 yards with it, I
doubt it.
Opps, forgot,you might also be in the prone position (laying down), out of
wind. Major part of shooting is breath control.
Mike Adams
PS: I have shot M60, M16, 9mm competatively, as well as shot M60, M16, M249
(SAW) in mock combat and I am amazed I hit anything, even with the weapon zerod
(mock combat that is).
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From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 28 Nov 97 06:51:28 GMT
Subject: Odinistic Mercenary
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Luck role, and the GM keeping track of when you do your rituals?
The powers might have a activation role basically.,
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From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 28 Nov 97 06:52:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Bio-genetic powers
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Quote: "I would not shoot me at this time" bamn, ahhhhhhhhhh "I told you so".
Might give him a hi resitance to pain.
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 28 Nov 97 06:58:04 GMT
Subject: Re: 5th Edition Champs
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h > From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
h > Subject: Re: 5th Edition Champs
h > At 10:56 PM 11/25/97 -0600, Rob Kemp wrote:
h > >Have a general question for the list. If 5th Edition were to become a
h > >reality and YOU were given the task of WRITING it. What changes, new
h > powers,
h > >new advantages, new rules, etc would you make to Champs 4th?
....
h > Attack, etc. For a couple of specifics: a. Someone on the list has a
h > reworking of Hand to Hand Attack that makes it much closer in function
h > as well as cost to Energy Blast.
Hand-to-Hand (normal) Attack:
A character with this Standard Power can increase the amount
of normal damage he does in hand-to-hand combat. For 5 Character
Points, the character can buy +1d6 HA. The HA must be defined as
physical or energy, normal or stun-only. Strength adds directly
to the damage of any type of HA just as it does with a hand-to-
hand killing attack - no more than doubling the DCs of the
attack. Alternately a small HA can be added directly to STR
damage with any kind of striking maneuver as long as the HA is
defined as doing normal physical damage with no advantages that
would have to be extended to strength.
Though it cannot be 'spread' in the manner of an Energy
Blast, an HA can be manipulated to improve OCV at the price of
damage. Each 1d6 of damage sacrificed gives a +1 OCV. Since an
HA - even when not focused - is assumed to be somewhat separate
from the character using it, it can be used to Block an
opponent's attack. The character is considered armed and has a
+1 OCV per 3d6 of HA employed. If the character does not want to
be able to use his HA to improve OCV, he can take the -1/4 'Beam'
limitation.
Hand-to-Hand Attack cost: +1d6 HA per 5 Apts, minimum cost
10pts.
(Thank you for remembering, I'm glad somebody liked it) :)
>> Use the Fuzion version of Regeneration, +1/4 Adv per step
on the time chart.
A couple of us came up with this (my version follows) before
Fuzion was even out.... :(
Regeneration:
This special power allows a character to recover BOD more
rapidly. Normally, BOD heals at a rate of 1 per point of
Recovery each month. Each 5 pts of Regeneration moves that
recovery rate one step up on the time chart - up to 35 pts which
allows the character to heal his REC in BOD each turn (on post-
segment-12). For 45 pts, the character can heal BOD every time
he takes a recovery (including post-segment-12). Characters
wishing to recover from wounds even faster should consider taking
Damage Reduction with the special effect of instantly healing.
Regeneration can go beyond merely speeding healing. For +10
pts the character's rate of Regeneration is unaffected by
environmental factors or levels of exertion. For +15 pts, he
does not bleed (doesn't lose BOD after being reduced to 0 BOD or
suffer from the effects of the optional bleeding rules). The
character can also regrow lost limbs and recover completely from
the effects of Disabling wounds for +10 pts.
Regeneration cost: 5pts per step on the time chart. Heal
BOD on each Recovery for 45pts. Ignore environment/exertion
for +10 pts. Does not bleed +15pts. Regrow limbs +10.
Minimum cost 10pts.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 01:28:07 -0600 (CST)
X-Sender: mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net
From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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>Yes, 250 yards with a even brand new Army Colt M1911A1 is rediculous. Most
>people can not hit at 25 yards let alone what some people can hit at 50 yards
>(people who practice can hit possibly 50 yards, and generally that is at a
>pistol match. With no one shooting at you and like.
>
>But in the real world the .45 is brobably been around for a while and the sites
>have not been zeroed, the bore/barrel is worn down some, the ammo is possibly
>old (been in storage for a while), you have just run 100+ yards zigzag, people
>are shooting at you, you are getting orders or giving them (45s normally were
>officers/NCO weapons, bombs blowing up around you, chances of mines. Maybe even
>wearing a protective mask, and you want me to hit more than 25 yards with it, I
>doubt it.
I saw two diffrent LT's miss a 55 gallon barrel at about 20 paces, several
times each, in fact one of them emptied two clips and never hit it one time.
But since we were preparing for war I had to pass them any way...
The .45's are being phased out, the one I carried had been to Viet Nam. The
new Baretta's are a big inprovment.
In Champions terms the .45 should have a -2 or at least a -1 OCV.
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine The Superhero RPG Fanzine...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
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From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 01:28:07 -0600 (CST)
X-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero), champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
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>Yes, 250 yards with a even brand new Army Colt M1911A1 is rediculous. Most
>people can not hit at 25 yards let alone what some people can hit at 50 yards
>(people who practice can hit possibly 50 yards, and generally that is at a
>pistol match. With no one shooting at you and like.
>
>But in the real world the .45 is brobably been around for a while and the sites
>have not been zeroed, the bore/barrel is worn down some, the ammo is possibly
>old (been in storage for a while), you have just run 100+ yards zigzag, people
>are shooting at you, you are getting orders or giving them (45s normally were
>officers/NCO weapons, bombs blowing up around you, chances of mines. Maybe even
>wearing a protective mask, and you want me to hit more than 25 yards with it, I
>doubt it.
I saw two diffrent LT's miss a 55 gallon barrel at about 20 paces, several
times each, in fact one of them emptied two clips and never hit it one time.
But since we were preparing for war I had to pass them any way...
The .45's are being phased out, the one I carried had been to Viet Nam. The
new Baretta's are a big inprovment.
In Champions terms the .45 should have a -2 or at least a -1 OCV.
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine The Superhero RPG Fanzine...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Bio-genetic powers
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 23:29:04 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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On Thursday, November 27, 1997 6:43 PM, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
<snip>
> (BTW, is molecular acid that eats through everything NND? The
defense
> being desolid or having a specialy constructed molecular acid proof
> shield of some kind?)
I don't know if the acid in Aliens quite ate through _everything_.
They didn't really test it. Teflon might well have been immune, but we
wouldn't know unless the thing bled on Teflon.
However, if you do create the ultimate acid, one of the defenses
should be Force Field. Not Desolid, as Desolid specifically negates
NNDs in its description.
Filksinger
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From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:54:45 +0000 (GMT)
X-To: hero-l@october.com
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition Hero Syste
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> h > Someone asked what people would want out of an hypothetical Fifth
> h > Edition.
> h >
> h > I'd like to see killing damage be an advantage, raising it's cost
> h > than that of normal damage. Otherwise, I either have to outlaw
> h > KAs or watch as my players buy the more deadly damage for the same
> h > value.
> h >
> Well, KAs are supposed to be deadlier (ie do more body), but if
> they're playing heros is that what they really want.
>
> There is a problem with KAs though - it's the STUN multiplier.
> restrict that in some way (d3 instead of d6-1, fixed at 2,
> or whatever) and you eliminate the problem.
>
Use the hit locations table.
That restricts the stun multiplier pretty well, without needing any house
rules.
I don't think applying it after on whatever gets through fully works.
It lessens it too much.
Rook --- Incoherent Thinking Specialist
Also known as Arcady on #herochat, #Fuzionchat, #gurps, #V&V,
and #SuperHeroChat in DALnet IRC
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 06:05:50 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Bio-genetic powers
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
At 12:55 PM 11/27/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> How do you simulate the power/effect of acidic blood? Think
>ALIEN.
Just offhand, I'd build it as some variation of RKA, Penetrating, 0 END
Persistent, Always On, Gradual Effect, Linked to Bleeding.
How does one work out Linked to Bleeding? I'd say to just give the RKA
one DC (up to the purchased maximum) for every 1d6 to be rolled for Bleeding.
> How do you simulate characters that can be 'deconstructed'
>(i.e. a clockwork golem that can have their arms removed; the removed
>arms cannot function at range)?
As described here, I'd just make it a Physical Limitation.
> How would you simulate a character who starts out fat, gaining
>a (very slight) addition to PD, limitations (like reduced movement and END),
>and some pounds, but looses the weight when they use their heat based powers.
>(For a mutant NPC known as 'Calorie' :) )
Link the increased (and decreased) Powers and Characteristics to the END
Reserve from which the Powers are based, so the more END is used.
(If you're using HeroMaker, a decrease bought at a -1/2 Limitation is
equivalent to an increase bought at a -2 Limitation.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
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X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 06:19:11 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Odinistic Mercenary
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At 10:29 PM 11/27/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> There is an Odinistic Mercenary in an upcoming game I am running.
>He has certain mental-bsed powers in a EC that he developed after going
>up with some neo-pagans in the black forest. His abilities are (supposedly)
>gifts from Odin himself.
> Now, under certain circumstances his powers will not work... for
>example, if he does follow his Odinistic tenants (like rituals performed to
>the pantheon on regular occasions, staying within certain ethical/moral
>boundaries, etc.)
> How would you model this? As a Physical Limitation? A susceptibility?
>As a straight-on modifier to the power itself? ...or somthing I haven't
>thought of?
Fantasy Hero does something similar by giving priests a -1/2 "Priestly
Limitation" to all Powers (spells). It functions just as you describe.
> Also, can anyone here give me stats for two really intelligent grey
>wolves, and two incredibally intelligent ravens (namely, the stats for the
>animal followers that Odin has). Anyone out there care to take a stab at
>that stats for a really kicking Harley hog that's been souped up
>(his 'steed').
I think I'll take a pass on this one... :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
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Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 07:27:07 -0700
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
Subject: Re: Odinistic Mercenary
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ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>
> There is an Odinistic Mercenary in an upcoming game I am running.
> He has certain mental-bsed powers in a EC that he developed after going
> up with some neo-pagans in the black forest. His abilities are (supposedly)
> gifts from Odin himself.
> Now, under certain circumstances his powers will not work... for
> example, if he does follow his Odinistic tenants (like rituals performed to
> the pantheon on regular occasions, staying within certain ethical/moral
> boundaries, etc.)
> How would you model this? As a Physical Limitation? A susceptibility?
> As a straight-on modifier to the power itself? ...or somthing I haven't
> thought of?
There is a varient of Hunted/Monitored in Mystic Masters that you could
use here...
Page 11 Mystic Masters:
<QUOTE>
Prohibition (Hunted)
A hero may be prohibited by oath or by a higher Power from engaging in
some useful activity. This differs from a Psych Lim. A Psych Lim
represents a characters own attitudes; A prohibition is enforced by
someone else. The hero may perform the prohibited activity without an
EGO roll, and perhaps even without suffering mental stress. But if the
violition is discovered, the hero suffers punishment.
..snip..
The GM should be carful when determening how restritive the activity is;
it should be something that the character _must_ do. Renmember, this is
the same as the roll for a Hunted. If the activity is 'frequently'
restricted, that means the at eh character should break the prohibition
every other adventure or so.
..snip..
5 Enforcer is less powerful than PC
10 Enforcer is as powerful as PC
15 Enforcer is More powerful than PC
+5 NCI
-5 limited geographical
+0 will restrict character occasionaly
+5 Will restrict character frequently
+10 will restrict chacter very frequently
-5 Mildly punish (loss of position, banishment, undertake a quest)
+0 Enforcer will harshly punish (loss of power, possessions, or life)
</QUOTE>
Mispellings and abbreviations are mine.
I use this in the position you quoted at the occasionaly (8-) level.
Hope it helps.
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Shaggy
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Date: 28 Nov 1997 09:29:01 -0500
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>>>>> "BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
BG> Oh, darn. When I saw the Subject header, I was hoping this would be
BG> the start of write-ups of Scooby-Doo and the gang.
You, too, huh?
I found myself tempted to write up the cast of "Mortal Kombat" (the movie),
though the poor showing of "Anihillation" has put a bit of a damper on
that. Now I think I've changed my focus. :)
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Unusual character concepts : American Star
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Date: 28 Nov 1997 09:33:07 -0500
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>>>>> "R" == Rook <rook@infinex.com> writes:
R> The effect I was looking for when designing it way back in V&V was
R> that of the 'Thing' from the movie of the same name. She regenerated
R> that fast as well.
Summon takes one phase. Regeneration is, at best, once per Turn.
R> You could stop her with a knockout, but if if still conscious she
R> could recover any injury damage in mere seconds. Even so far as
R> regrouping all those splattered cells together within a viewable amount
R> of time.
R> Something I've always had trouble doing in Hero.
Summon with a Trigger. The rest is special effects.
R> Her gravity power I last trid to do using swinging...
R> Since it works by having her fall towards objects. Flight works, but
R> the mechanics are a little off.
How so?
R> This is why V&V works better here, as it leaves room to redefine the
R> mechanics of any power, using it's body or mutant power.
As said previously: you are fixating on the names of powers rather than
special effects.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
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Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 10:36:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: CHAR: Shaggy
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On 28 Nov 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> I found myself tempted to write up the cast of "Mortal Kombat" (the movie),
> though the poor showing of "Anihillation" has put a bit of a damper on
> that. Now I think I've changed my focus. :)
'Poor'? How about 'pathetic'? Talk about a wasted chance by a movie
company.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
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From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:38:58 +0000 (GMT)
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Subject: Re: Unusual character co
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> h > You could stop her with a knockout, but if if still conscious she
> h > could
> h > recover any injury damage in
> h > mere seconds. Even so far as regrouping all those splattered cells
> h > together
> h > within a viewable amount of time.
> h > Something I've always had trouble doing in Hero.
>
> If you regenerate that quickly, you might want to look into
>
> buying extra defense or Damage Reduction, with the F/X of
> instant or nearly instant regeneration, in addition to
> actual Regen.
>
Hmm.
How much of a lim would it be on a def to only stop body damage?
Rook --- Incoherent Thinking Specialist
Also known as Arcady on #herochat, #Fuzionchat, #gurps, #V&V,
and #SuperHeroChat in DALnet IRC
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Vampires in Hero...
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:40:42 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
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>
> Hi everybody !
>
> I wanna know if someone has a vampire converted to Hero/Champions
> System ? If Yes, please mail me ...
>
Isn't one of the guys in the back of the BBB a vampire?
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:26:04 -0200 (EDT)
From: Leandro Oliveira da Silva <lanso@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Subject: Vampires in Hero...
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Hi everybody !
I wanna know if someone has a vampire converted to Hero/Champions
System ? If Yes, please mail me ...
[]'s all,
Leandro Oliveira da Silva
http://www.lci.ufrj.br/~lanso
e-mail: lanso@lci.ufrj.br
ICQ Number: 4561560
ICQ Nickname: Lanso
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 28 Nov 97 18:46:00 GMT
Subject: Bio-genetic powers
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h > How do you simulate the power/effect of acidic blood? Think
h > ALIEN.
Damage Shield that only works when your opponent uses a physcial
Killing Attack.
h > How do you simulate characters that can be 'deconstructed'
h > (i.e. a clockwork golem that can have their arms removed; the removed
h > arms cannot function at range)?
h >
Duplication.
h > How would you simulate a character who starts out fat, gaining
h > a (very slight) addition to PD, limitations (like reduced movement and
h > END),
h > and some pounds, but looses the weight when they use their heat based
h > powers.
h > (For a mutant NPC known as 'Calorie' :) )
h > -Jason
Wierd special effect, but...
actually, unless he's reeally fat, it is a Special Effect.
Maybe he has an END Battery for his Heat powers, and it
has the -1/4 limitation visible - opponents can tell how
much power you have left by how thin you're getting.
Did you origin have something to do with 'Fat Burner'
diet pills? :)
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 28 Nov 97 18:59:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Unusual character co
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h > You could stop her with a knockout, but if if still conscious she
h > could
h > recover any injury damage in
h > mere seconds. Even so far as regrouping all those splattered cells
h > together
h > within a viewable amount of time.
h >
h > Something I've always had trouble doing in Hero.
h >
If you regenerate that quickly, you might want to look into
buying extra defense or Damage Reduction, with the F/X of
instant or nearly instant regeneration, in addition to
actual Regen.
h > Her gravity power I last trid to do using swinging...
h > Since it works by having her fall towards objects. Flight works,
h > but the
h > mechanics are a little off.
h >
Buy enough flight an levels to duplicate everything you can do
with the power, then put a limitation on it (for whatever seems
reasonable) "Works exactly like that V&V power I'm feeling
nostalgic for."
What are the mechanical differences?
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:08:26 -0500 (EST)
X-Sender: nexus@uky.campus.mci.net
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Dark Champions PBEM:Recruiting Addendum
Cc: mtucke@sanjuan.edu
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>Talents: Disallowed
>Find weakness: Simply too powerful
It was mentioned that this makes it seem like all Talents are not allowed.
Sorry, I meant that find weakness it not allowed.
I know violence doesn't solve all problems...
But it sure feels good!
Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 28 Nov 97 19:36:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Bio-genetic powers
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h >
h > > How do you simulate the power/effect of acidic blood? Think
h > HKA with Damage Shield just dosen't do this justice. Blood is drawn
h > when BODY is taken. However, in the movie ALIENS the characters were
h > couple of yards away at certain points and they were still caught in
h > acidic gore's path. Also, since the character I'm designing this for
Well, that was when the Aliens were being blown to pieces by high
explosive bullets.
h > sentient, he can cut himself and 'bleed' though locks, doors, etc.
h > Also, this would act as a flaw, because any time the character would
h > 'bleed' (as per the optional rules), there would be acidic drips.
So you have to rephrase the DS to 'only while bleeding/taking a wound
that causes bleeding' then you can, for instance, cut your palm and
place it up against something you want to burn through (grab manuever
to use a Damage Shield).
h > So, I'm looking for a way to simulate this...
h > "Hey, that guy we're suppose to kill is above us..."
h > *Click* -_-Sizzzzle-_- "YAAAAAA!"
h > ...and more "YAAAAAA!"s for anyone else who passes under his bleeding
h > body.
That's a little tougher, it doesn't come close to the utility of
a Ranged attack.... I think if you make the power Gradual,
and add in F/X about dripping downward it might be OK. It's
really getting too detailed at this point.
h > (BTW, is molecular acid that eats through everything NND? The
h > defense
h > being desolid or having a specialy constructed molecular acid proof
h > shield of some kind?)
h >
It doesn't eat through everyting, just everything you saw in the
films (Metal blukheads, ceramic breastplates, space helmets, etc..).
If you want to represent it marking and pitting virtually any
substance, no matter how tough, make it Penetrating.
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 28 Nov 97 19:41:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
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m >
m > The .45's are being phased out, the one I carried had been to Viet
m > Nam. The
m > new Baretta's are a big inprovment.
m >
m > In Champions terms the .45 should have a -2 or at least a -1 OCV.
m >
m > Michael
m > Rising Force Publications
m > Herozine The Superhero RPG Fanzine...
m > http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
m >
Aw... but the Colt Commander is just the quintessencial *gun*
all the PI's in old movies had them. I couldn't bear to give
it bad modifiers... it's just so cool.
Probably, it should just have poor range mods, if you must
go for realism, but realism just isn't as much fun. :(
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 28 Nov 97 19:45:08 GMT
Subject: Fifth Edition Hero Syste
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h >
h > Someone asked what people would want out of an hypothetical Fifth
h > Edition.
h >
h > I'd like to see killing damage be an advantage, raising it's cost
h > than that of normal damage. Otherwise, I either have to outlaw
h > KAs or watch as my players buy the more deadly damage for the same
h > value.
h >
h > Scott
h > ---
Well, KAs are supposed to be deadlier (ie do more body), but if
they're playing heros is that what they really want.
There is a problem with KAs though - it's the STUN multiplier.
restrict that in some way (d3 instead of d6-1, fixed at 2,
or whatever) and you eliminate the problem.
Personally, I reigned in Killing Attacks by applying the
Stun multiplier to the BOD damage that got through... thus
high DEF characters just bounced things like bullets of
thier chests with no effect. Made Normal attacks much
more popular in the superhero arena.
___
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From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
Date: 28 Nov 97 19:48:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Odinistic Mercenary
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h > From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
h >
h > >animal followers that Odin has). Anyone out there care to take a
h > stab at
h > >that stats for a really kicking Harley hog that's been souped up
h > >(his 'steed').
h >
h > I think I'll take a pass on this one... :-]
h > ---
You don't think that's a good candidate for TUSV? :)
Wouldn't it have 8 wheels?
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