Week Ending December 6, 1997
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From: "Vance Scott" <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:53:30 -500
Subject: Re: Champions Campaign Themes
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Micheal Adams, Bob Greenwade, and Dragonfly thanks for the help guys.
Any more ideas are welcome.
Expanded Campaign Themes
Protectors of Earth - These heroes are responsible for protecting
earth and it's inhabitants. They are the earth's first defense
against alien invasions, space monsters, and other world shaking
threats.
Law Enforcers - These heroes are agents of the government who
maintain the peace, and enforce the law. These heroes have the
santion of their government.
Vigilantes - These "heroes" are citizens who take justice into their
own hands, and met out punishment as they see fit.
Specialists - These heroes handle special cases that require unique
skills and talents to handle. These heroes deal with those threats
that the usual hero can't handle. A covert operations team, or a
supernatural investigations and elimination team would qualify.
Social Activists - These heroes are trying to change society. They
are trying to promote social, legal, and/or political change in the
community they live in.
Minority Front - These heroes are members of a minority who's first
interest is the protection, and advancement of the group they
represent. These heroes might be mutants, aliens, or a human minority
group.
Resistance Fighters - These heroes are members of a group who are
trying who are resisting invaders, or an oppressive government.
Professionals - These heroes are paid for their assistance. The hero
business is a job for these heroes. They may be independent
contractors, or work for a regular employer.
Adventurers - These heroes are in it for the adventure. The exotic
encounters, and experiences are reward enough for these heroes.
Investigators - These heroes are in it to learn. This explorers, and
researchers are in it to satisify their curiousity.
I eagerly await any additions to this list of hero teams.
Vance Scott
Vanquisher of all foes
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:21:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: CHAR: Shaggy
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In a message dated 11/28/97 4:49:47 AM, bob.greenwade@klock.com wrote:
> Oh, darn. When I saw the Subject header, I was hoping this would be the
>start of write-ups of Scooby-Doo and the gang.
>---
>Bob
Don't laugh. there's a page out on the www where
someone wrote up the Mystery Machine gang as Hunters
for white wolf's vampire game. I could easily convert it to Hero
for you if you like :) Velma, Fred, Diana, Scrappy, Shaggy, Scooby
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:21:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
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true true, CE was a reach.
"Density Decrease"
it either sounds like a legit new power to me.
-or-
Desolid with strange Limits on it.
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 17:21:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: Writing Up Yourself
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it was a quickie form I used in a
"play yourself as a PC" game a few weeks back
a govt. group called The Shop had kidanpped
the PC's and was running them through
a Virtual Reality where they were mundanes.
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From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
Date: 28 Nov 97 23:11:38 GMT
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition Hero Syste
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I thought HERO was into Fuzion totally and that there would not be a new
edition printed.
Or did I miss something, I stop by here not that often and no longer player
RPGs just design worlds/universes/multiverse.
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From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 19:26:28 -0500 (EST)
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Subject: Re: Odinistic Mercenary
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Actually, it has eight pneumatic 'shafts;' two on each side of the
front and back wheels.... has a limited hyper leap ability like a turbo boost.
From: "Jeff O'Connor" <jtoc@msn.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 01:17:26 -0700
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Subscribe
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From: "Jeff O'Connor" <jtoc@msn.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 01:19:38 -0700
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Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
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Test.
-----Original Message-----
From: Opal <Opal@october.com>
To: champ-l@omg.org <champ-l@omg.org>
Date: Monday, November 24, 1997 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself
>
>
> h > From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
> h >
> h > If you want detailed skill lists, you go to Fuzion or GURPS.
> h > If you want difficulty levels with it, go to GURPS.
>.....
> h > Much as I hate to admit it, Fuzion is a much better choice for a
> h > game needing detailed skills and a hard core feel. Of course, it loses
>
>I'll agree on the hard core feel - Fuzion is lethal compared to
>Hero. But, the way Fuzion works skills makes developing a
>serious skill-based character very difficult. You might be
>able to get a reasonable number of skills to start, but, once
>you move into actual play, the experience system gets in the
>way of improving skills.
>___
> * OFFLINE 1.58
>
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From: "Guy Hoyle the Ineffable" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 11:32:13 +0000
Subject: Re: Champions Campaign Themes
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Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu> said:
> I would also add:
>
> Symbols - These heroes represent an ideal, a cause, belief, or group of
> people. They take direct action in their cause, and even when involved in
> tangental causes strive to embody their motivating ideal.
>
> This is more common as an individual theme (e.g. Captain America), but it
> is possible for a group (The Force of July was a villainous example.)
Another example is the original Teen Titans. They concentrated
mainly on problems facing teenagers, which were quite different back
then. No teen pregnancy or drugs; mostly things like overbearing
adult authority figures who wanted to keep the kids "in line", or
evil masterminds hell-bent on ruining the sock-hop.
----------------------------------
Guy Hoyle (guyhoyle@iname.com)
http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/
Visit The Gamemaster's Bookshelf
and the PANGAEA Project!
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From: "Guy Hoyle the Ineffable" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:24:34 +0000
Subject: Scooby Doo
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I don't have any character writeups, but I do have a rather sinister
interpretation of Scooby-Doo and the gang at
http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/scooby.htm
Guy
----------------------------------
Guy Hoyle (guyhoyle@iname.com)
http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/
Visit The Gamemaster's Bookshelf
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From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"champ-l@omg.org\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 97 13:33:58
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Bio-genetic powers
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On Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:20:42 -0500 (EST), ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>> How do you simulate the power/effect of acidic blood? Think
>>ALIEN.
> HKA with Damage Shield just dosen't do this justice. Blood is drawn
>when BODY is taken. However, in the movie ALIENS the characters were a
>couple of yards away at certain points and they were still caught in the
>acidic gore's path. Also, since the character I'm designing this for is
>sentient, he can cut himself and 'bleed' though locks, doors, etc.
>Also, this would act as a flaw, because any time the character would 'bleed'
>(as per the optional rules), there would be acidic drips.
> So, I'm looking for a way to simulate this...
So what - just make the effect Uncontrolled, and give the Damage Shield
advantage the partial limitation, 'Only when BODY damage taken (-1)'
> ...as for the 'calorie' power, I was thinking a Multipower pool
>based off of an END reserve for the fat fuled heat powers. The END reserve
>could only be 'replenished' by gaining weight. The problem is how to simulate
>'weight gain' (which is most likely a Physical Limitation) that is temporary...
>and how to gain the weight back. (Yeah... How would you construct a Temporary
>Phys Lim? Side Effects = Physical Limitation, Distincitive Features, minuses
>to running, and for the addition PD Only works while fat [or Linked to END
>reserve]????
How about Extra Time on the End Reserve's Recovery?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 06:58:59 -0700
From: Curtis Gibson <Mhoram@apeleon.net>
Subject: Re: Champions Campaign Themes
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Vance Scott wrote:
> Expanded Campaign Themes
> Investigators - These heroes are in it to learn. This explorers, and
> researchers are in it to satisify their curiousity.
>
> I eagerly await any additions to this list of hero teams.
>
> Vance Scott
>
> Vanquisher of all foes
One to add, although it could be shoehorned under Investigators...
Students - The heroes are young, and learning how to use thier powers.
They have adventures related to this, or side effects from whomever is
taking the responsibility to teach them.
The most obvious example are the early New Mutants, and some of the
stories of the Legion acadamy.
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
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From: "Guy Hoyle the Ineffable" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 14:38:31 +0000
Subject: Keeping Track of Damage to NPCs
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Does anyone have a streamlined way of keeping track of damage to NPCs
in combat? I find it hard to determine things like being stunned or
knocked unconscious, especially when I have a number of different
types of agents running around. Wayne Shaw once posted such a
system, but I seem to have lost my copy of it.
Guy
----------------------------------
Guy Hoyle (guyhoyle@iname.com)
http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/
Visit The Gamemaster's Bookshelf
and the PANGAEA Project!
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From: "Guy Hoyle the Ineffable" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 14:38:31 +0000
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Subject: Keeping Track of Damage to NPCs
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Does anyone have a streamlined way of keeping track of damage to NPCs
in combat? I find it hard to determine things like being stunned or
knocked unconscious, especially when I have a number of different
types of agents running around. Wayne Shaw once posted such a
system, but I seem to have lost my copy of it.
Guy
----------------------------------
Guy Hoyle (guyhoyle@iname.com)
http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/
Visit The Gamemaster's Bookshelf
and the PANGAEA Project!
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Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 08:54:25 -0600
From: Earl Kwallek <earl@thewarren.mil.wi.us>
Subject: Re: Re: CHAR: Shaggy
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At 05:21 PM 11/28/97 -0500, Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 11/28/97 4:49:47 AM, bob.greenwade@klock.com wrote:
>> Oh, darn. When I saw the Subject header, I was hoping this would be the
>>start of write-ups of Scooby-Doo and the gang.
>>---
>>Bob
>
>Don't laugh. there's a page out on the www where
>someone wrote up the Mystery Machine gang as Hunters
>for white wolf's vampire game. I could easily convert it to Hero
>for you if you like :) Velma, Fred, Diana, Scrappy, Shaggy, Scooby
>
That should be Daphne not Diana...
And it really scares me that (a) I know this and (b) I'm taking the time
to correct you....
Earl Kwallek - Earl@TheWarren.Mil.Wi.US
A Man with a gun is a citizen;
a man without a gun is a subject.
The best Gun in the World is -
The one that you have ready in your Hand!
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 10:04:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Champions Campaign Themes
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On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, Vance Scott wrote:
> Protectors of Earth - These heroes are responsible for protecting
> earth and it's inhabitants. They are the earth's first defense
> against alien invasions, space monsters, and other world shaking
> threats.
>
This is often seen in a more limited form - Protectors of City or Region.
(Protector of Gotham, Protectors of Detroit, Protectors of Canada, etc.)
I would also add:
Symbols - These heroes represent an ideal, a cause, belief, or group of
people. They take direct action in their cause, and even when involved in
tangental causes strive to embody their motivating ideal.
This is more common as an individual theme (e.g. Captain America), but it
is possible for a group (The Force of July was a villainous example.)
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 07:50:05 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Campaign Themes
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At 02:53 PM 11/28/97 -500, Vance Scott wrote:
>Micheal Adams, Bob Greenwade, and Dragonfly thanks for the help guys.
>
>Any more ideas are welcome.
>
>
>Expanded Campaign Themes
I thought of a couple more:
Reluctant Heroes. These are the folks who would rather do something
else with their powers (maybe just make a decent and honest living), but
get caught up in adventures anyway and just have to deal with it.
Underground Heroes, or Outlaw Heroes. These guys have been framed or
mistakenly convicted of some crime, and are out to clear their names.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
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Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 07:51:35 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Re: CHAR: Shaggy
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At 05:21 PM 11/28/97 -0500, Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 11/28/97 4:49:47 AM, bob.greenwade@klock.com wrote:
>> Oh, darn. When I saw the Subject header, I was hoping this would be the
>>start of write-ups of Scooby-Doo and the gang.
>>---
>>Bob
>
>Don't laugh. there's a page out on the www where
>someone wrote up the Mystery Machine gang as Hunters
>for white wolf's vampire game. I could easily convert it to Hero
>for you if you like :) Velma, Fred, Diana, Scrappy, Shaggy, Scooby
I wasn't laughing.
By the way, it's Daphne, not Diana.
And please, spare me Scrappy.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
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Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 07:56:07 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition Hero Syste
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At 11:25 PM 11/27/97 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>Genre arguments don't really solve the problem. If something has more
>effect (and since it ignore non-resistant defenses, KA's do have more
>effect), it should cost more points.
Killing Attacks only ingore non-resistant defenses for purposes of BODY,
unless the target has no non-resistant defenses at all.
They also do less STUN on average, and less knockback. And they cannot
be Bounced or Spread.
Theoretically, at least, these are supposed to balance out the fact that
KAs do more BODY on average, and ignore non-resistant defenses for purposes
of BODY (and for STUN if the target has no resistant defenses).
---
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Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 07:58:33 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition Hero Syste
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At 11:11 PM 11/28/97 GMT, Michael Adams wrote:
>I thought HERO was into Fuzion totally and that there would not be a new
>edition printed.
>
>Or did I miss something, I stop by here not that often and no longer player
>RPGs just design worlds/universes/multiverse.
I forget where and exactly who, but someone at hero (I *think* it was
Steve Peterson) has said that an "updated Fourth Edition," sort of a Hero
4.5, might be assembled for Hero Plus when all the copies of Fourth Edition
Champions and Champions Deluxe are sold out. This would basically be the
Fourth Edition, plus all the new rules from genre books, Ultimate books,
Alamancs, and so forth -- at least, those that haven't been largely
condemned.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
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Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 08:04:03 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Odinistic Mercenary
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At 07:48 PM 11/28/97 GMT, Opal wrote:
>
>
> h > From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
> h >
> h > >animal followers that Odin has). Anyone out there care to take a
> h > stab at
> h > >that stats for a really kicking Harley hog that's been souped up
> h > >(his 'steed').
> h >
> h > I think I'll take a pass on this one... :-]
> h > ---
>
>You don't think that's a good candidate for TUSV? :)
>
>Wouldn't it have 8 wheels?
My answer to both questions is "arguably, yes." :-]
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
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From: "Guy Hoyle the Ineffable" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 16:24:04 +0000
Subject: Re: Keeping Track of Damage to NPCs
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> > Does anyone have a streamlined way of keeping track of damage to NPCs
> > in combat? I find it hard to determine things like being stunned or
>
> Well, I usually use pushpins with the metal needle to show thugs on
> a map. For Stunned ones, I lay the pin on it's side. For unconscious thugs
> who might get up again, I turn them upside down. ANybody who isn't like to
> get up during the fight is simply removed fromthe board.
>
I should have been a little clearer. Keeping track of them on a map
is easy. I just have a hard time keeping track of all the mental
calculations about how much damage is being done to them in battle,
then figuring out what effect it has on them, then remembering to
give them their recoveries, etc. I hate to take time away from the
game for bookkeeping, and was looking for a simpler method of keeping
track, especially with a large number of agents.
Guy
>
>
----------------------------------
Guy Hoyle (guyhoyle@iname.com)
http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/
Visit The Gamemaster's Bookshelf
and the PANGAEA Project!
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From: "Guy Hoyle the Ineffable" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 16:24:04 +0000
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> > Does anyone have a streamlined way of keeping track of damage to NPCs
> > in combat? I find it hard to determine things like being stunned or
>
> Well, I usually use pushpins with the metal needle to show thugs on
> a map. For Stunned ones, I lay the pin on it's side. For unconscious thugs
> who might get up again, I turn them upside down. ANybody who isn't like to
> get up during the fight is simply removed fromthe board.
>
I should have been a little clearer. Keeping track of them on a map
is easy. I just have a hard time keeping track of all the mental
calculations about how much damage is being done to them in battle,
then figuring out what effect it has on them, then remembering to
give them their recoveries, etc. I hate to take time away from the
game for bookkeeping, and was looking for a simpler method of keeping
track, especially with a large number of agents.
Guy
>
>
----------------------------------
Guy Hoyle (guyhoyle@iname.com)
http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/
Visit The Gamemaster's Bookshelf
and the PANGAEA Project!
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:39:28 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Reply-To: NOSPAMrook@infinex.com
CC: hero-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: CHAR: Shaggy
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> > Oh, darn. When I saw the Subject header, I was hoping this would be the
> >start of write-ups of Scooby-Doo and the gang.
>
> Don't laugh. there's a page out on the www where
> someone wrote up the Mystery Machine gang as Hunters
> for white wolf's vampire game. I could easily convert it to Hero
> for you if you like :) Velma, Fred, Diana, Scrappy, Shaggy, Scooby
http://www.access.digex.net/~catalyst/Scooby/index.html
I've got it on my super hero links page.
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Daniel Pawtowski <dpawtows@access.digex.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:42:45 -0500 (EST)
X-To: hero-l@october.com
Subject: Re: Keeping Track of Damage to NPCs
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>
> Does anyone have a streamlined way of keeping track of damage to NPCs
> in combat? I find it hard to determine things like being stunned or
Well, I usually use pushpins with the metal needle to show thugs on
a map. For Stunned ones, I lay the pin on it's side. For unconscious thugs
who might get up again, I turn them upside down. ANybody who isn't like to
get up during the fight is simply removed fromthe board.
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 17:29:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Keeping Track of Damage to NPCs
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On Sat, 29 Nov 1997, Guy Hoyle the Ineffable wrote:
> Does anyone have a streamlined way of keeping track of damage to NPCs
> in combat? I find it hard to determine things like being stunned or
> knocked unconscious, especially when I have a number of different
> types of agents running around. Wayne Shaw once posted such a
> system, but I seem to have lost my copy of it.
We use a really simple system of "- Stun = out of fight" and "- Body =
dead."
You don't worry about recoveries and the like, although you still need to
keep track of who is stunned and who isn't.
Long has a 1d6 method, which he recommends for gunfights. I'm not certain
of the chart, but it goes something like this:
1 - nothing
2 - wounded
3 - wounded
4 - wounded
5 - wounded and stunned
6 - dead
2 or more 'wounded' results put a character out of the fight (or something
like that).
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
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From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 20:14:18 -0500 (EST)
X-To: hero-l@october.com
Subject: Re: Information request
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Bio-genetic powers
Mail-Copies-To: never
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Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 29 Nov 1997 21:44:00 -0500
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "q" == qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> writes:
q> So what - just make the effect Uncontrolled, and give the Damage Shield
q> advantage the partial limitation, 'Only when BODY damage taken (-1)'
This still does not change the fact that a Damage Shield will not activate
when hit by ranged attacks.
The cleanest way to work it is with Trigger: when Body damage taken. Then
use an Autofire RKA as the basis for the attack itself.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 05:59:37 +0000
From: ORT2 <ORT2@prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ORT2@prodigy.net
Organization: Prodigy Internet
CC: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Scooby Doo
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Guy Hoyle the Ineffable wrote:
>
> I don't have any character writeups, but I do have a rather sinister
> interpretation of Scooby-Doo and the gang at
> http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/scooby.htm
>
> Guy
>
> ----------------------------------
> Guy Hoyle (guyhoyle@iname.com)
> http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/
> Visit The Gamemaster's Bookshelf
> and the PANGAEA Project!
After checking out the above web page this is all I can say about it:
Guy, are you serious? If you really believe that, then why do you play
any sort of role playing game? If this is a joke, then please excuse my
little rant, but if not, I am speechless.
Owen-
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 02:39:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CHAR: KALUU
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To: champ-l@omg.org
KALUU (compadre of DR STRANGE, Marvel Comix)
STR 17 DF: Wizard Garb & Spiky Hair (concealable)
DEX 18 Public ID (super public among cognoscenti)
CON 16 DF: Tibetan Oriental
BODY 11 Psych: Cold, Pragmatic ("Kinda Evil")
INT 18 Psych: Enjoys comforts & wealth
EGO 28 Psych: Domineering
PRE 22 Hunted: various neutral & good beings, from various dimensions
COM 9
PD 9
ED 9
SPD 4
REC 13
END 50
STUN 50
Images: (mirror images)
Sight, Sound, Smell, Touch, Mental, -8 to PER rolls, Skill Roll req.
x5 to Radius, Zero End, Only Images of Self (up to 8 at a time).
Shape-Shift:
Any living Shape, Zero End.
Power Effects Invisible to Magical Senses.
+Density Increase, Shrinking, Growth: Up to 1 Level of Each,
Only for use (linked) (if needed by shape-shift above), Zero End.
Power Effects Invisible to Magical Senses.
Force-Field: Zero End. 13/13
Force-Wall: 18/18, Half-End
Immortality: (Regeneration-Type)
Life-Support: No Aging
Eidetic Memory: photographic
Spells Multi-Power:
a) Energy Blast, 14d6
b) Energy Blast, Area Effect Hex 12d6
c) Telepathy, Penetrating, 13d6
d) Entangle BOECV, 8d6
e) Killing Attack, Explosion, Double Knockback, 4d6
f) Teleport, Area Effect, Transdimensional, Triggered,
20", x1024 NCV, UAO, UBO
g) Mind-Link, Transdimensional, Any Distance, x8 minds
h) Aid, To Magical Powers, BOECV, Linked to Mind-Link, 8d6
i) Change Environment, Variable
j) Teleport, Only in Rain/Storm: Side Effect: CE dissipates said
rain/storm
20", x15625 NCV
k) Summon Undead or Spirits
l) Other Adjustment Powers as GM sees fits (Var.SFX)
Var.Pow.Pool: Magic Knowledge
40 points, Spell Books, Skill Roll, Variable SFX, GEstures, Incantations
Languages: Tibetan, Chinese, Egyptian, English, Latin
AK: World 12-
AK: Asia 14-
AK: Tibet 16-
AK: the Dimensions 17-
KS: Magic: Chaos, Darkhold, Nature, Necromantic, Black, Vishanti, Others
22- 13- 14- 15- 19- 12- 15-
PS: Financier
SC: Philosophy
Skills: Tactics, Administration, Cramming, Agriculture, Business,
Riding, Deduction, Persuasion
Well-Connected: (mostly arcane)
Contacts: Dr.Strange, Clea, the Ancient One, Lords of Chaos, vampires,
demons,
his Wall Street Broker, Lords of Sorcery, various Mystics & Wizards
Wealth: 10
Martial Arts: Jiu Jutsu
Block +2 OCV +2 DCV Abort
Disarm -1 OCV +1 DCV 30 STR Disarm
Dodge +0 OCV +5 DCV Abort
Legsweep +2 OCV -1 DCV 5d6 Strike, Target Falls
Punch/Snap Kick +0 OCV +2 DCV 6d6 Strike
Side/Spin Kick -2 OCV +1 DCV 8d6 Strike
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 02:58:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Density Decrease: (formerly Non shrinking shrinking)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
In a message dated 11/27/97 5:47:12 PM, filkhero@usa.net wrote:
>>for reducing density, I'll be glad to drop all ideas of "no-size
>>shrinking".
>Like, Change Environment, perhaps?
Okay, right, CE was a bad idea..
Here's an idea. Density Increase has a cousin called density decrease.
It exists as an extention of the chart that comes with DI.
When Density Increase is reversed, it becomes a non-standard power
with which a character may become weaker, lighter,
and physically less tough.
POINTS KILOS STR KB" PD ED
15 800 15 -3 3 3 Density Increase (same as book)
10 400 10 -2 2 2 " "
5 200 5 -1 1 1 " "
0 100 0 0 0 0 no points
5 50% 85% 2 -2 -2 Density Decrease (new part)
10 25% 70% 4 -5 -5 " "
15 13% 55% 6 -10 -10 " "
20 6% 40% 8 -5 -5 " "
25 3% 25% 10 -2 -2 " "
30 2% 10% 12 -1 -1 " "
35 1% 1% 14 0 0 " " (stop here)
40 Buy Desolidification
For each 5 points of density decrease, the characters total
weight gets cut in half again, their STR is reduced 15%,
their KB (and throw distance) increase, and their PD & ED
vary. See the chart for exact game effects.
Some special effects allow some of the "negative" effects
columns to be bought off at a .25 Advantage to the power.
As you get less Dense, you get lighter. You also get weaker.
You also get more susceptible to damage, but
only up to a point, and then your wispiness starts
to prevent damage again.
You also get susceptible to knockback, and therefore
your throwable weight/distance increases.
Minimum cost, 5 points.
Only a maximum of 35 points of DensDec may be purchased.
At 40 or more points, you are buying Desolid instead.
Again, I'm trying to avoid any physics questions or "reality",
I'm trying to set up an example of real game powers that
allow for the special effects described. Shrinking is the flip side
of Growth, this chart could be the flip side of DI.
--
Elliott
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"Guy Hoyle the Ineffable\" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net&>
\"Multiple recipients of Hero\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 08:15:33
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Keeping Track of Damage to NPCs
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X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sat, 29 Nov 1997 14:38:31 +0000, Guy Hoyle the Ineffable wrote:
>Does anyone have a streamlined way of keeping track of damage to NPCs
>in combat? I find it hard to determine things like being stunned or
>knocked unconscious, especially when I have a number of different
>types of agents running around. Wayne Shaw once posted such a
>system, but I seem to have lost my copy of it.
For minor characters, it's easy: just say that they can take N hits. EG
an agent can take 2 hits - hits from the Brick counting double.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 08:15:33
X-To: "champ-l@omg.org" <champ-l@omg.org&> "Guy Hoyle the Ineffable" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net&> "Multiple recipients of Hero" <hero-l@october.com>
Subject: Re: Keeping Track of Damage to NPCs
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On Sat, 29 Nov 1997 14:38:31 +0000, Guy Hoyle the Ineffable wrote:
>Does anyone have a streamlined way of keeping track of damage to NPCs
>in combat? I find it hard to determine things like being stunned or
>knocked unconscious, especially when I have a number of different
>types of agents running around. Wayne Shaw once posted such a
>system, but I seem to have lost my copy of it.
For minor characters, it's easy: just say that they can take N hits. EG
an agent can take 2 hits - hits from the Brick counting double.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"Stainless Steel Rat\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 08:43:02
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Bio-genetic powers
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On 29 Nov 1997 21:44:00 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>> "q" == qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> writes:
>
>q> So what - just make the effect Uncontrolled, and give the Damage Shield
>q> advantage the partial limitation, 'Only when BODY damage taken (-1)'
>
>This still does not change the fact that a Damage Shield will not activate
>when hit by ranged attacks.
Since when is that a limitation on Damage Shield? One of the examples
of Damage Shield in the BBB is a ranged attack.
>The cleanest way to work it is with Trigger: when Body damage taken. Then
>use an Autofire RKA as the basis for the attack itself.
Sounds equally good. Make it a Gradual Effect, too, to simulate the
going through floors bit, and the ability to remove an affected piece
of armour.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 08:45:18 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Density Decrease (formerly Non shrinking shrinking)
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Didn't we hash out Density Decrease not more than a week ago
on a different thread? Being lighter than you normally are, well, I
can see that being an advantage. But why would anyone actually
pay points to have a decreased stregnth, PD, ED and be more susceptiable
to Knockback? The only advantageous part of that power is the weight
reduction, and that's already covered by shrinking.
I don't see the justification of 'your whispiness starts to
prevent damage again.' That's assuming alot... making the power like
partial Desolidification (probally better modeled with Damage Reduction
or Armor with the appropiate f/x). What about MoonMan who can become as light
as a feather, but stays just as tangible as before? Sure, he has Jumping,
Gliding, and Flight (bought with the F/X of Levitation) linked in an EC of
'Moon-like gravitational powers' to that there Density Decrease...
And the fluxation in the PD/ED charts makes the power non-linear.
With shrinking, you do get certain penalties to Characteristics, but you also
get advantages to balance it out ("Hey, what's that on the ground? Looks like
a little ma..." *POW* 'Thanks Captain Shrink-o! You've really saved the day
again!' "Thanks to my super-shrink-o uppercut and the fine police officers
of Metro City, young Timmy. Now run along and join the other shrink-scouts
so you can be there when Mayor Johnson presents me with the key to the city."
'Super neat-o!'
...of course, this Density Decrease would do wonders if it was UAO.
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 06:24:38 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Bio-genetic powers
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 08:43 AM 11/30/97, \"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk> wrote:
>>q> So what - just make the effect Uncontrolled, and give the Damage Shield
>>q> advantage the partial limitation, 'Only when BODY damage taken (-1)'
>>
>>This still does not change the fact that a Damage Shield will not activate
>>when hit by ranged attacks.
>
>Since when is that a limitation on Damage Shield? One of the examples
>of Damage Shield in the BBB is a ranged attack.
If you're referring to the Mental Damage Shield, this is a special case
for Mental Powers. Read the description of Damage Shield carefully --
particularly the first sentence of the second paragraph -- and you'll see
that a Damage Shield is meant for hand-to-hand use.
>>The cleanest way to work it is with Trigger: when Body damage taken. Then
>>use an Autofire RKA as the basis for the attack itself.
>
>Sounds equally good. Make it a Gradual Effect, too, to simulate the
>going through floors bit, and the ability to remove an affected piece
>of armour.
No, Trigger is much better because (a) it does activate when the
character is hit by a ranged attack, and (b) it will affect something other
than the attacker.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 06:54:37 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Scooby Doo
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 05:59 AM 11/30/97 +0000, ORT2 wrote:
>Guy Hoyle the Ineffable wrote:
>>
>> I don't have any character writeups, but I do have a rather sinister
>> interpretation of Scooby-Doo and the gang at
>> http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/scooby.htm
>
>After checking out the above web page this is all I can say about it:
>
>Guy, are you serious? If you really believe that, then why do you play
>any sort of role playing game? If this is a joke, then please excuse my
>little rant, but if not, I am speechless.
It's a pretty obvious joke, based (directly or indirectly) on something
that some get-a-lifer did back in the 60s to the song "Puff the Magic
Dragon" (and in that case the writer meant it).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:46:00 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Just some more confusion.
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Tiki has Telekenesis. He can use it to fly around (Flight),
and to carry his friends along with him.
Tiki should buy Flight UAO for his friends. What's the limit
Tink could carry while flying? His STR or his TK's STR? Could
TK 'carry' and object along with him using his TK while flying?
If Tiki picked up an object (like a log), and wanted it
to accelerate towards something, how fast would it travel and how
much damage would it do?
Mechanically, how would TK_ based on EGo, Invisible power
effects (except for mental) effect a target? Would it do BODY?
What defense wouuld be applied against it? Would STR be rolled to break
out of this particular type of TK's grab?
From: "Robert" <baron@stlnet.com>
Subject: Fw: FBI report on Ritual/"Satanic" Abuse
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:48:29 -0600
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----------
> From: Robert <baron@stlnet.com>
> To: Bob Simpson <rsimpson@beasys.com&> , champ-l@omg.org
> Subject: Re: FBI report on Ritual/"Satanic" Abuse
> Date: Sunday, November 30, 1997 10:05 AM
>
> For those of you who MAY have thought that I posted the FBI report and
was
> the original author and didn't remember the last week or so ago when it
was
> originally posted by someone else, it isn't mine. I was trying to bulk
mail
> my own email address so that I could transfer my old emails to my new
> computer and let my fiance' (who will be my wife in five days) have our
old
> computer all to herself. Bob Simpson is the original sender. I am not.
>
> ----------
> > From: Bob Simpson <rsimpson@beasys.com>
> > To: Rob Kemp <baron@mail.stlnet.com>
> > Subject: FBI report on Ritual/"Satanic" Abuse
> > Date: Wednesday, November 26, 1997 5:19 PM
> >
> > I'm curious as to why you reposted my original note to the champ-l list
> without any note as to its source. It was kind of you to save it (and I
> hope you found the attributions useful) but I'd hate to think that you
> might get any nasty note from folks that thought you were the original
> author.
> >
> > -- Bob Simpson <simpson@netcom.com>
> >
> > >Return-Path: <daemon@omg.org>
> > >Received: from beasys.com by svlhome1.beasys.com
(SMI-8.6/SMI-BEA3_SVR4)
> > > id VAA19896; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:09:57 -0800
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> <rsimpson@beasys.com&> Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:09:54 -0800 (PST)
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> 25 Nov 1997 21:14:21 -0800 (PST)
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> > > Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:53:02 -0600 (CST)
> > >Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:53:02 -0600 (CST)
> > >Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19971125225401.0e479b98@mail.stlnet.com>
> > >X-Sender: baron@mail.stlnet.com
> > >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16)
> > >Mime-Version: 1.0
> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > >From: Rob Kemp <baron@mail.stlnet.com>
> > >Subject: FBI report on Ritual/"Satanic" Abuse
> > >Cc: champ-l@omg.org, Collie <collie@netcom.com&>
> > > Scott Ruggels <scott.ruggels@3do.com>
> > >Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
> > >Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
> > >X-Hero: champ-l
> > >To: champ-l@omg.org
> > >Content-Length: 2337
> > >Status:
> > >
> > >At 07:54 24 10 97 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> > >> (It's also pretty clear, especially from his opening comments under
> "The
> > >>Satanic Cult Conspiracy," that he doesn't know what he's talking
about
> when
> > >>it comes to factual matters. Any cop I've ever been in contact with
> and
> > >>discussed the topic with knows for an absolute fact that there really
> are
> > >>Satanists out there making blood sacrifices, and sometimes human
> > >>sacrifices.
> > >
> > >Many of the law enforcement officers I've spoken to also "knows for an
> > >absolute fact that" role-playing games are a tool of the devil. Like
> > >yourself, I think it is important to discount the "conventional
widsom"
> of
> > >any group without evidence.
> > >
> > >
> > >>Shomashak wrote it off as paranoid superstitious poppycock,
> > >>and as far as I can tell did so without doing any research on the
> matter at
> > >>all.)
> > >
> > >I can't comment on anything written by the "Shomashak" person you
> mention,
> > >but as to available research, you might start here:
> > >http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_study.htm
> > >
> > >They also have a copy of a comprehensive FBI study of childhood ritual
> > >abuse: Kenneth V. Lanning, "Investigator's Guide to Allegations of
> 'Ritual'
> > >Child Abuse", Behavioral Science Unit, National Center for the
Analysis
> of
> > >Violent Crime, Federal Bureau of Investigation, FBI Academy, Quantico,
> > >Virginia 22135 (1992) <http://www.religioustolerance.org/fbi_01.htm>
> > >
> > >Kenneth Lanning is a Supervisory Special Agent at the FBI Academy in
> > >Virginia who has combated the sexual victimization of children since
> 1981.
> > >He police forces. works at the FBI Behavioral Science Unit which
assists
>
> > >police forces throughout the US. The group is often called in as
> consultants
> > >by local and state police forces.
> > >
> > >A short quote from the conclusion of the report:
> > > For at least eight years American law enforcement has been
aggressively
>
> > >investigating the allegations of victims of ritual abuse. There is
> little or
> > >no evidence for the portion of their allegations that deals with
> large-scale
> > >baby breeding, human sacrifice, and organized satanic conspiracies.
> > >
> > >Hope this helps people find the relevant research and draw their own
> > >conclusions.
> > >
> > >-- Bob
> > >
> > >>>>> [Modern Education] has produced a vast population able to read
but
> > >unable to distinguish what is worth reading, an easy prey to
sensations
> and
> > >cheap appeals. -- G. M. Trevelyan (1942) <<<<
> > >
> > >
> > >
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"champ-l@omg.org\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 20:59:16
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Just some more confusion.
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:46:00 -0500 (EST), ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> Tiki has Telekenesis. He can use it to fly around (Flight),
>and to carry his friends along with him.
> Tiki should buy Flight UAO for his friends. What's the limit
>Tink could carry while flying?
Tiki should buy Flight Usable BY Others.
> His STR or his TK's STR? Could
>TK 'carry' and object along with him using his TK while flying?
> If Tiki picked up an object (like a log), and wanted it
>to accelerate towards something, how fast would it travel and how
>much damage would it do?
> Mechanically, how would TK_ based on EGo, Invisible power
>effects (except for mental) effect a target? Would it do BODY?
>What defense wouuld be applied against it? Would STR be rolled to break
>out of this particular type of TK's grab?
You seem to be going about this the wrong way: think of all the effects
Tiki can do (Flight, TK, EB vs PD, RKA [when Tiki picks up a nasty
pointy bit of metal], etc) and put them in a framework, either a
Multipower or Elemental Control.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 21:15:09
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Character experience
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I've been having a think (always dangerous!)
Would people agree that there is a general progression of experience
reflected by cost in the various frameworks?
With a multipower, generally a character can only use one or two powers
at the same time.
With an Elemental Control, a character can demonstrate their skill by
performing all their tricks at the same time.
With a Variable Power Pool, a character can demonstrate their mastery
by doing *anything* [related to the SFX and guided by the Limitations,
of course].
Comments? And yes, I know that a VPP can be cheaper than an EC, but
you've got the AP cap.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:46:27 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Dream Powers
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How would you simulate a character who could 'dream walk' --
enter another character's mind through their dreams.
Also, I've noticed that today I only received 5 messages from this
mailing list. Is the mailer down again, or is is just a slow day?
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:36:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Just some more confusion.
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On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
All answers use _The Ultimate Mentalist_ as their basis.
> Tiki should buy Flight UAO for his friends. What's the limit
> Tink could carry while flying? His STR or his TK's STR? Could
> TK 'carry' and object along with him using his TK while flying?
Normally, you can carry up to your STR in weight while flying with no
penalty. In the case above, I'd would say up to your TK STR. Tiki should
have no problems carrying something along with his TK while he uses his
flight power.
> If Tiki picked up an object (like a log), and wanted it
> to accelerate towards something, how fast would it travel and how
> much damage would it do?
Speed is based on throwing distance. TUM recommends using the "Standing
Throw" column on the Throwing Table. Figure the weight of the object and
the STR of TK, look it up on the chart and the distance number is how far
the object can be moved per phase.
Example: Shion has 60 STR TK. She picks up a small runabout (weight
800kg). This gives her 35 extra STR to throw it. Looking at the Throwing
Table, a 35 STR Standing Throw lets her move the car 14" per Phase.
I think that since most TK is continous (you pick up and push the object
the whole phase, not pick up and let go), you should use the Running
Throw. If you do so, Shion can move the car at 28" per Phase.
Impact damage is based on the STR of the TK. So... Shion would do 12d6 to
anyone caught in the path of the object. Since the runabout is 2x1 hexes,
she can whack quite a few people at one time.
Naturally, if Shion moves the runabout over to an open vehicle elevator
shaft and lets it drop, the damage will be a *lot* greater than 12d6..
> Mechanically, how would TK_ based on EGo, Invisible power
> effects (except for mental) effect a target? Would it do BODY?
> What defense wouuld be applied against it? Would STR be rolled to break
> out of this particular type of TK's grab?
TUM talks about this, and here is what is says (boiled down to basics).
1) The character with BOECV TK uses his EGO vs the target's DEX.
2) Yes, it does Body. It is a physical attack, but works like a mental
power for things like LOS and Range Mods. Defense is PD of any type.
3) BOECV TK has no range penalties and is only limited by LOS. TK can be
indirect by default, allowing poeple to affect objects trhough windows and
the like.
4) You can use STR to break out. A +1/2 Advantage makes one use EGO. If
you do this, the EGO costs END and can be pushed. Mental Defense does not
help. Note that in some games (like a PSI-cop scenario) this might be a
disad instead.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
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From: "Vance Scott" <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:51:56 -500
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Subject: Re: Bio-genetic powers
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> h > How do you simulate the power/effect of acidic blood? Think
> h > ALIEN.
>
> Damage Shield that only works when your opponent uses a physcial
> Killing Attack.
4d6 RKA/ Body Drain is a real possiblity too.
+1/2 Area Effect (1 Hex) Spurting
+1/2 sticky
Continous Charges
Charges (after all the character only has so much blood).
Trigger (body taken)
Activation (11-) you aren't necessarily hit by the acid blood.
> h > How do you simulate characters that can be 'deconstructed'
> h > (i.e. a clockwork golem that can have their arms removed; the removed
> h > arms cannot function at range)?
> h >
This limitation would best be simulated using a physical limitation
weakness. The character can be disassembled loses abilities
associated with body part. 15 - 20 points.
Vance Scott
Vanquisher of all foes
Comments: Authenticated sender is <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca>
From: "Vance Scott" <b1tlbx98@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:51:57 -500
Subject: Re: Unusual character concepts : American Star
Reply-to: vances@sympatico.ca
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> You could stop her with a knockout, but if if still conscious she could
> recover any injury damage in
> mere seconds. Even so far as regrouping all those splattered cells together
> within a viewable amount of time.
>
> Something I've always had trouble doing in Hero.
Try buying regeneration equal to your body value or more. I know it's
expensive, but such a powerful regeneration should be expensive.
Maybe not as expensive as this will be, but oh well.
Vance Scott
Vanquisher of all foes
X-Sender: nezmaster@ntr.net
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 07:44:43 -0500
From: Nez Master <nezmaster@ntr.net>
Subject: Re: Dream Powers
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At 08:46 PM 11/30/97 -0500, you wrote:
> How would you simulate a character who could 'dream walk' --
>enter another character's mind through their dreams.
>
Telepathy, Mental Illusions, Mind Link, and Mind Scan can be combined to
create this effect depdning on how much control you want over the dreams.
Add "target must be asleep" as a -1 limitation. (at least).
8 d6 Mind Link (target must be asleep -1) (does not reveal location/only
for targetting -1/4) 17
You can probably surmise the rest for whatever you want to do.
> Also, I've noticed that today I only received 5 messages from this
>mailing list. Is the mailer down again, or is is just a slow day?
>
>
-------------------------Nez Master--------------------
Second founder of the backwards philosophy
http://www.ntr.net/~nezmaster
Nothing is certain
_______________________________________________________
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Re: Dream Powers
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:30:04 -0500
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>How would you simulate a character who could 'dream walk' --
>enter another character's mind through their dreams.
Taken from http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/1905/haym15l.html:
--
The only dream power given in The Ultimate Mentalist was telepathy
versus sleeping targets, but what about a dream controller who shares
the dream with the target? With this type of dream power, both of them
control the dream, but the dreamer with the greatest willpower and most
creative use of dream space prevails -- kind of a cross between Marvel's
Nightmask, the movie Dreamscape, and Piers Anthony's Tarot series.
Example: Morpheus enters a trance, and sends his mind to find his
sleeping foe, The Reaper. He enters The Reaper's dream space, and finds
himself on a dark mountain pathway lined with dead trees and clutter.
Nearby, he hears a horse-drawn wagon approaching. He takes cover behind
a large rock, and sees The Reaper in a Death Carriage, drawn by a
skeletal horse.
Morpheus wills a large troll to come from around the bend and demand
that the rider turn back. When The Reaper insists that he must press on,
the troll swings at him with his club. The troll hits and wounds The
Reaper, who gets knocked back at an angle where he notices Morpheus
hiding. The Reaper wills the troll to notice the hiding Morpheus and
attack him instead.
Here's my attempt:
Mind Scan (only versus sleeping targets -1)
Mental Illusions (only versus sleeping targets, Full Side Effect: Mental
Illusions)
The side effect is of being in the dreamscape illusion along with the
dreamer. Since the dream is controlled by both characters, only EGO and
use of setting modifiers determine the victor -- the illusion power is
the same.
--
Dave Mattingly
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Dream Powers
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Date: 01 Dec 1997 10:39:39 -0500
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "NM" == Nez Master <nezmaster@ntr.net> writes:
NM> Telepathy, Mental Illusions, Mind Link, and Mind Scan can be combined
NM> to create this effect depdning on how much control you want over the
NM> dreams. Add "target must be asleep" as a -1 limitation. (at least).
I have mailed Mr. Midnight about nailing down the effects a bit more.
But without that, I have a simpler idea: Clairsentience.
NM> 8 d6 Mind Link (target must be asleep -1) (does not reveal location/only
NM> for targetting -1/4) 17
Mind Link requires a willing target, and there are no dice involved.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 07:41:06 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Just some more confusion.
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At 11:46 AM 11/30/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> Tiki has Telekenesis. He can use it to fly around (Flight),
>and to carry his friends along with him.
> Tiki should buy Flight UAO for his friends. What's the limit
>Tink could carry while flying? His STR or his TK's STR? Could
>TK 'carry' and object along with him using his TK while flying?
From what I can see, Tiki should *not* buy Flight UAO for his friends.
His telekinetic powers don't enable them or cause them to fly. Rather, he
carries them telekinetically. He therefore could carry them with his
regular TK.
> If Tiki picked up an object (like a log), and wanted it
>to accelerate towards something, how fast would it travel and how
>much damage would it do?
Treat the log like a club being used with normal STR. It can travel as
far per Phase as Tiki could hurl it doing a Standing Throw with the amount
of STR in his Telekinesis (see page 174 of the BBB).
> Mechanically, how would TK_ based on EGo, Invisible power
>effects (except for mental) effect a target? Would it do BODY?
>What defense wouuld be applied against it? Would STR be rolled to break
>out of this particular type of TK's grab?
TK BOECV is a matter that has been hashed over more than once on the
list, and it seems that everyone has a different take. This is mine (and
it differs from Steve Long's in The Ultimate Mentalist, detailed to you by
Michael Surbrook).
TK BOECV is the Power used for "Puppeteering" -- that is, literally
taking control of the target's body. (It is different from simple Mind
Control because of the dynamic involved; Puppeteering is more like grabbing
someone's arm and making it do something, while MC is reaching into the
person's will and subverting it. The former is a STR contest, the latter
an EGO contest.) It cannot to any damage directly, though it could be used
to force the target to jump off a cliff or something similar to do indirect
damage.
This form of TK is typically bought with Fine Manipulation, and the
"Affects All Parts" Limitation (even though that sounds contradictory).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 11:33:19 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Cause Pain
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Hurt-Waltz can cause pain by touching her opponents.
What effects would 'pain' have on a target, and how would you work out
the power(s) involved?
Subject: Ping!
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 13:08:33 -0400
x-sender: DFair@pop.worldweb.net
From: David Fair <DFair@sdslink.com>
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Either the list is real quiet, or is down. This is a test.
| David A. Fair
Think Different | SDS International
| dfair@sdslink.com
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Cause Pain
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "AAM" == ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu> writes:
AAM> Hurt-Waltz can cause pain by touching her opponents.
AAM> What effects would 'pain' have on a target, and how would you work out
AAM> the power(s) involved?
I dunnow... a solid 2x4 upside the head hurts quite a bit. :)
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From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:16:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Density Decrease (formerly Non shrinking shrinking)
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In a message dated 11/30/97 8:58 AM, RAVANOS wrote:
>reduction, and that's already covered by shrinking.
> I don't see the justification of 'your whispiness starts to
>prevent damage again.' That's assuming alot... making the power like
>partial Desolidification
At some point, Decreasing your Density crosses over into Desolidification.
If my molecules are disappearing or spreading apart I'm not going to be
very solid. And who said the powers all had to be linear?
Besides:
I don't think the guy who asked 15 different "how do I" questions
to the list ought to tell me what works & what doesn't :)
--
Elliott
<spade>
It's called "thinking outside the box", you should look into it.
</spade>
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:41:59 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Reply-To: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Subject: Something wrong with force field cost
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A force field bought to No endurance would be the same price as armor.
But it would not be persistent and would have visible power effects. Even
if it is bought to persistent and invisible power effects, and receive the
always on disadvantage, it would be more expensive (hmmm... it is possible
there is a case that this is not true, but mostly is).
Does anyone know why this, or did I say something wrong ?
[]s.
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:46:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Non shrinking shrinking
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Who posted this original question?
my mail doesn't go back that far, I looked...
Wasn't the original idea to be lightweight?
Beyond my chart some simple ways to simulate that could be:
Is DD a power?
Superleap or Gliding, No conscious control, triggered by being
thrown or hit. (i.e. Usable by Others Against Self ?!?)
Multiform, only other form available is a lightweight version of self.
Shapeshift, +1 Advantage, Allows Mass Decrease.
(IMHO, the writers of shape-shift assumed 2 things: No-one would
ever want to decrease their mass, and that decreasing density implied
a size change)
Is DD a disad?
Knockback Increase, a Physical Limitation.
Reverse the values in the DI chart and call it that level of Disad.
--
Elliott
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:57:14 -0500 (EST)
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From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Cause Pain
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> Hurt-Waltz can cause pain by touching her opponents.
> What effects would 'pain' have on a target, and how would you work out
>the power(s) involved?
Energy Blast, NND [non-standard nervous system], No Range, No Knockback,
maybe Invisible to Sight/Sound groups. Continious if you like.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"By all that's unholy, the Enigma Force has given Captain Universe the power
to back up his sickening platitudes!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:26:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Something wrong with force field cost
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Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria writes:
> A force field bought to No endurance would be the same price as armor.
> But it would not be persistent and would have visible power effects. Even
> if it is bought to persistent and invisible power effects, and receive the
> always on disadvantage, it would be more expensive (hmmm... it is possible
> there is a case that this is not true, but mostly is).
> Does anyone know why this, or did I say something wrong ?
Except under fairly special circumstances, force field is less efficient than
armor; this is somewhat historical in nature (long ago, there was 'damage
resistance', which cost 15 points to make half your PD and ED resistant, or 30
points for all, and 'force field'. Armor came later). There is no
particularly good fix for this, though in my current game we don't use END,
which significantly increases the utility of force fields.
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:43:01 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Density Decrease (formerly Non shrinking shrinking)
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...the only thing I don't get is the 'whispy-ness' part. I can
make a reverse gravometric field around myself, making me lighter. It
dosen't mean I become 'whispy' or 'desolid' even if I weigh a pound.
If the power is truly the inverse of Density Increase, then Density
Decrease should be able to simulate the opposite effects.
If the effects 'cross over' into Desolidification, then buy
Desolidification, or buy a power that simulates 'partial Desolidification'
(Damage Reduction and Armor with the Sf/x 'Attacks pass through' come to mind).
I might be wrong, but all of the powers in the HERO system don't
flux back on themselves; at a medium range, the power becomes more
disadvantageous, without any change in it's cost or compensation. At higher
and lower levels, the ammount of lost PD and ED are the same while everything
else changes.
...and I ask alot of questions because I haven't been gifted with
years of Champions gaming experience. A lot of my "how do I" questions
I already have answers for, but I feel it would be better over all to hear
what others have to say about a particular power, effect, or ruling.
Sure, we all have our own approaches... but that is what is so illuminating
about being part of this list-- sharing ideas. Even when my opinion has
differed from an individual, I still feel as if it's granted me with
insight into the game-- or gotten me more in touch with the 'feel'
of the system. Besides, you guys have prevented my from busting many a
precious brain cell! :)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:46:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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Okay, here is a totally useless but amusing question:
What are the top five fight sequences you have ever seen (any media)?
This can include live action, animated, comic book, what ever. The only
requirement is that it be between people, not space ships or fighter
planes.
My five?
(in no real order)
1) The Thing and Johnny Storm vs Terrax in FF issues... (uh, damn, I
forgot). Anyway this is the three issue series that had Doc Doom and the
Silver Surfer show up (And Reed Richards put on trial for saving Galactus)
2) Chun Li vs Vega in "Streetfighter II the Animated Movie".
3) Jet Li vs "The Killing Machine" at the end of "Fist of Legend".
4) Son Goku (and Vegita) vs Metal Kooler in Dragonball Z Movie 6
5) Jackie Chan (you *knew* there had to be a Jacke Chan fight scene in
here, didn't you?), Samo Hung and Yeung Biao vs Yuen Wah, Bennie the Jet
and a zillion mooks at the end of "Dragons Forever".
Honorable mentions include:
The opening gunfight in "Hard Boiled"
The final gunfight in "The Killer"
Chow Yun Fat vs some mooks in in the begining of "Full Contact"
Jubei's fight with Tessa at the begining of "Ninja Scroll"
Jubei's fight with Genma at the end of "Ninja Scroll"
Jubei and Kagero's fight with Utsutsu in the middle of "Ninja Scroll"
(hmm... seem to be in a rut there)
Deunan Knute vs a bunch of terrorists in a collapsed building in Appleseed
book 4 (I think)
Bruce Lee vs a zillion goons in Dr. Han's basement in "Enter the Dragon"
Jackie Chan vs Ken Lo in "Drunken Master II"
Jackie Chan vs Bennie the Jet in "Wheels on Meals"
Hmm... I seem to be a bit sparse in the comic department...
Okay, one last one then:
Manji vs the other immortal guy in Call of the Worm #3 ("Blade of the
Immortal").
Uh... hmmm only one western comic ... oh well.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:42:36 -0500
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The wedding battle from Big Trouble in Little China, especially Wang
versus the spirit sword guy.
Dave Mattingly
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"champ-l@omg.org\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 97 19:48:26
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Bio-genetic powers
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On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 06:24:38 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 08:43 AM 11/30/97, \"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk> wrote:
>>>q> So what - just make the effect Uncontrolled, and give the Damage Shield
>>>q> advantage the partial limitation, 'Only when BODY damage taken (-1)'
>>>
>>>This still does not change the fact that a Damage Shield will not activate
>>>when hit by ranged attacks.
>>
>>Since when is that a limitation on Damage Shield? One of the examples
>>of Damage Shield in the BBB is a ranged attack.
>
> If you're referring to the Mental Damage Shield, this is a special case
>for Mental Powers. Read the description of Damage Shield carefully --
>particularly the first sentence of the second paragraph -- and you'll see
>that a Damage Shield is meant for hand-to-hand use.
>
>>>The cleanest way to work it is with Trigger: when Body damage taken. Then
>>>use an Autofire RKA as the basis for the attack itself.
>>
>>Sounds equally good. Make it a Gradual Effect, too, to simulate the
>>going through floors bit, and the ability to remove an affected piece
>>of armour.
>
> No, Trigger is much better because (a) it does activate when the
>character is hit by a ranged attack, and (b) it will affect something other
>than the attacker.
Ah, a *much* better reason.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"champ-l@omg.org\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 97 19:51:00
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Dream Powers
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On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:46:27 -0500 (EST), ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> How would you simulate a character who could 'dream walk' --
>enter another character's mind through their dreams.
Mental Illusions or Telepathy, Only when Target is Asleep.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Density Decrease (formerly Non shrinking shrinking)
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Date: 01 Dec 1997 14:52:42 -0500
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>>>>> "AAM" == ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu> writes:
AAM> If the power is truly the inverse of Density Increase, then Density
AAM> Decrease should be able to simulate the opposite effects.
If Desolidification = totally insubstantial, then Density Decrease could =
somewhat insubstantial. Damage Reduction is a good way of simulating this
effect.
An important thing to remember is not to get hung up on what a power or
effect is called when trying to determine what power(s) to use to simulate
a particular effect. As I just mentioned, a "density decrease" effect by
which the character becomes less substantial than normal (volume remains
the same but mass decreases), but not completely insubstantial and isolated
from the physical world, physical and energy Damage Reduction will simulate
this effect reasonably well.
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PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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>>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:
MS> Deunan Knute vs a bunch of terrorists in a collapsed building in
MS> Appleseed book 4 (I think)
Yup.
How could you have forgotten Johnny Cage vs. Scorpion and Liu Kang
vs. Reptile, both from "Mortal Kombat". Both were beautifully
choreographed (Robin Shou's work). Liu Kang vs. Shang Tsung, from the same
movie, has an interesting hit: the first time Liu connected, Robin Shou
really did connect, and the blood was real. It was planned that way. You
can't get more real than real. :)
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X-Sender: nezmaster@ntr.net
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:08:44 -0500
From: Nez Master <nezmaster@ntr.net>
Subject: Re: Dream Powers
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At 10:39 AM 12/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>> "NM" == Nez Master <nezmaster@ntr.net> writes:
>
>NM> Telepathy, Mental Illusions, Mind Link, and Mind Scan can be combined
>NM> to create this effect depdning on how much control you want over the
>NM> dreams. Add "target must be asleep" as a -1 limitation. (at least).
>
>I have mailed Mr. Midnight about nailing down the effects a bit more.
>
>But without that, I have a simpler idea: Clairsentience.
>
>NM> 8 d6 Mind Link (target must be asleep -1) (does not reveal location/only
>NM> for targetting -1/4) 17
>
>Mind Link requires a willing target, and there are no dice involved.
>
Argh..i meant mind scan..i thought mind scan..i didn't WRITE mind scan..sorry
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>--
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> \
>
>
-------------------------Nez Master--------------------
Second founder of the backwards philosophy
http://www.ntr.net/~nezmaster
Nothing is certain
_______________________________________________________
X-Sender: nezmaster@ntr.net
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:08:49 -0500
From: Nez Master <nezmaster@ntr.net>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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At 01:46 PM 12/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Okay, here is a totally useless but amusing question:
>
>What are the top five fight sequences you have ever seen (any media)?
>This can include live action, animated, comic book, what ever. The only
>requirement is that it be between people, not space ships or fighter
>planes.
>
1> Final Gunfight in The Killer makes my number one (I noticed it got
honarable mention from you.
2> The brawl In True Romance (Christian Slater versus Gary Oldman)
3> A battle in a long gone comic between Doctor Strange and The hulk.
(mostly because it was funny)
4> Spider man vs Juggernaut..becuase it showed the futility of a high-speed
low damage character vs. a high def character. (wonderful shot full of
after images of spider man, hitting juggy 10+ times while juggy stands there)
5> Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon
>My five?
>
I haven't seen most of your favorites. But at least you like John Woo.
>5) Jackie Chan (you *knew* there had to be a Jacke Chan fight scene in
>here, didn't you?), Samo Hung and Yeung Biao vs Yuen Wah, Bennie the Jet
>and a zillion mooks at the end of "Dragons Forever".
Bruce Lee does it better.
>
>Honorable mentions include:
>The opening gunfight in "Hard Boiled"
>The final gunfight in "The Killer"
>Chow Yun Fat vs some mooks in in the begining of "Full Contact"
>Jubei's fight with Tessa at the begining of "Ninja Scroll"
>Jubei's fight with Genma at the end of "Ninja Scroll"
>Jubei and Kagero's fight with Utsutsu in the middle of "Ninja Scroll"
>(hmm... seem to be in a rut there)
So I take it you would reccomend the film "Ninja Scroll" for our viewing
pleasure?
>Deunan Knute vs a bunch of terrorists in a collapsed building in Appleseed
>book 4 (I think)
>Bruce Lee vs a zillion goons in Dr. Han's basement in "Enter the Dragon"
>Jackie Chan vs Ken Lo in "Drunken Master II"
>Jackie Chan vs Bennie the Jet in "Wheels on Meals"
>
>Hmm... I seem to be a bit sparse in the comic department...
>Okay, one last one then:
>
>Manji vs the other immortal guy in Call of the Worm #3 ("Blade of the
>Immortal").
>
>Uh... hmmm only one western comic ... oh well.
>
My Honarable mentions
* Anything else with Bruce Lee.
* The final Scene of Big Trouble in little china
* Princess bride "You killed my father" scene (from the point where he runs
away, all the way through)
* Project Ako (which is almost one long fight scene in and of itself)
* Elementals vs someone electircal (in which said electrical villian fries
his own team in a story that made it obvious the book was based on a game)
* Ripley vs Alien in Aliens
* Any combat from Raiders of the Lost Ark
* Sonny Chiba in Streetfighter
* theres so many..i'll stop here..
-------------------------Nez Master--------------------
Second founder of the backwards philosophy
http://www.ntr.net/~nezmaster
Nothing is certain
_______________________________________________________
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:17:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Dave Mattingly wrote:
> The wedding battle from Big Trouble in Little China, especially Wang
> versus the spirit sword guy.
That was Rain.
And the other four?
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:47:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Nez Master wrote:
> >Okay, here is a totally useless but amusing question:
> >
> >What are the top five fight sequences you have ever seen (any media)?
> >This can include live action, animated, comic book, what ever. The only
> >requirement is that it be between people, not space ships or fighter
> >planes.
> >
> 1> Final Gunfight in The Killer makes my number one (I noticed it got
> honarable mention from you.
It was a tough choice. I have to admit that in my book, a well done fist
fight wins out over a gunfight most every time.
> 2> The brawl In True Romance (Christian Slater versus Gary Oldman)
Didn't see it.
> 3> A battle in a long gone comic between Doctor Strange and The hulk.
> (mostly because it was funny)
Ditto.
> 4> Spider man vs Juggernaut..becuase it showed the futility of a high-speed
> low damage character vs. a high def character. (wonderful shot full of
> after images of spider man, hitting juggy 10+ times while juggy stands there)
Ditto II.
> 5> Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon
Oh yeah. The man moved with such grace and style, especially when you
consider that one of his legs was something like 1" shorter than the
other.
> >My five?
>
> >
> I haven't seen most of your favorites. But at least you like John Woo.
Yep. Did I mention "Face Off" and the final 'let's trade our guns' bit
from "A Better Tomorrow II"?
> >5) Jackie Chan (you *knew* there had to be a Jacke Chan fight scene in
> >here, didn't you?), Samo Hung and Yeung Biao vs Yuen Wah, Bennie the Jet
> >and a zillion mooks at the end of "Dragons Forever".
>
> Bruce Lee does it better.
Have to disagree with you there. Have you ever seen this sequence?
Bruce had some awesome fights, but not with the flair and intensity of
this one. I guess it's a style thing.
> >Honorable mentions include:
> >The opening gunfight in "Hard Boiled"
> >The final gunfight in "The Killer"
> >Chow Yun Fat vs some mooks in in the begining of "Full Contact"
> >Jubei's fight with Tessa at the begining of "Ninja Scroll"
> >Jubei's fight with Genma at the end of "Ninja Scroll"
> >Jubei and Kagero's fight with Utsutsu in the middle of "Ninja Scroll"
> >(hmm... seem to be in a rut there)
>
> So I take it you would reccomend the film "Ninja Scroll" for our viewing
> pleasure?
Yep. Cool characters (all but one written up for Hero on my website),
excellent animation and soundtrack, cool plot and excellent action scenes.
> >Deunan Knute vs a bunch of terrorists in a collapsed building in Appleseed
> >book 4 (I think)
> >Bruce Lee vs a zillion goons in Dr. Han's basement in "Enter the Dragon"
> >Jackie Chan vs Ken Lo in "Drunken Master II"
> >Jackie Chan vs Bennie the Jet in "Wheels on Meals"
> >
> >Hmm... I seem to be a bit sparse in the comic department...
> >Okay, one last one then:
> >
> >Manji vs the other immortal guy in Call of the Worm #3 ("Blade of the
> >Immortal").
> >
> >Uh... hmmm only one western comic ... oh well.
> >
> My Honarable mentions
>
> * Anything else with Bruce Lee.
Especially Bruce vs the Japanese school in "Fist of Fury" (aka "Chinese
Connection")
> * The final Scene of Big Trouble in little china
I'll buy that.
> * Princess bride "You killed my father" scene (from the point where he runs
> away, all the way through)
And ends with "I want my father back, you son of a bitch!"
Yep, nice fight.
> * Project Ako (which is almost one long fight scene in and of itself)
And more mass destruction than any three Marvel/DC fight scenes!
> * Elementals vs someone electircal (in which said electrical villian fries
> his own team in a story that made it obvious the book was based on a game)
Heh... I just re-read that Sunday. The scene is Fathom vs Electrocutioner
(love that name) in a flooded basement. Elec fires off a bolt and zaps
everyone in room, his own troops included.
> * Ripley vs Alien in Aliens
What, with the power loader?
> * Any combat from Raiders of the Lost Ark
Really?
> * Sonny Chiba in Streetfighter
Haven't seen that yet either... I guess I should.
> * theres so many..i'll stop here..
Do tell.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:54:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On 1 Dec 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> How could you have forgotten Johnny Cage vs. Scorpion and Liu Kang
> vs. Reptile, both from "Mortal Kombat". Both were beautifully
> choreographed (Robin Shou's work). Liu Kang vs. Shang Tsung, from the same
> movie, has an interesting hit: the first time Liu connected, Robin Shou
> really did connect, and the blood was real. It was planned that way. You
> can't get more real than real. :)
I didn't forget (really!).
The Cage/Scorpion match was pretty cool but not one of my tops. Liu Kang
vs Reptile was just fantastic (the music had a lot to do with it) and
should go in my "Honorable Mention".
I had heard that the Liu Kang/Shang Tzung fight was 'real'. Cute trick.
BTW: If anyone mentions any fight scene from MK II, you deserve to get
laughed into oblivion. (I can't beleive I wasted money on that turkey...
oh well, just goes to show that anyone can mkae a flic look good with a 30
sec preview). And can you believe that there are plans for a MK III?
Robin Shou has wisely bowed out of that one.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
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Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 16:17:43 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Just some more confusion
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How would you calculate the KB from a EB Autofire, Indrect, Invisible
Power Effects (except mental), the f/x being 'fluidic fisticuffs,' tiny
poltergeist-like punches and pinches from all directions?
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:21:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> Okay, here is a totally useless but amusing question:
>
> What are the top five fight sequences you have ever seen (any media)?
> This can include live action, animated, comic book, what ever. The only
> requirement is that it be between people, not space ships or fighter
> planes.
>
I don't think I can list a definitive top five - a lot of cool scenes come
to mind, and it's hard to rank them. Off the top of my head, I'll list:
Movies:
Darth Vader vs. Luke Skywalker in The Empire Strikes Back.
The Wedding Battle in Big Trouble in Little China.
The tournament in El Cid. (I think - Ivanhoe also had a lot of great
scenes, and I get those two epic movies mixed up scene for scene.)
Superman vs. the Kryptonian villains in Superman II.
Rutger Hauer as a blind man fighting a bunch of bullies in Blind Fury.
Jackie Chan's entire career.
Comics:
The remnants of the X-Men vs. the Sentinels in Days of Future Past. It's
easy to forget that the book deserved its popularity once.
Any of a number of great fights in The Question.
Superman vs. the Spectre in DC Comics Presents. (Early 1980's, I forget
the issue number.)
Batman vs. Rick Flagg in Suicide Squad.
The JLA vs. the Martians in the current run of JLA.
Firestorm and friends vs. the JLA vs. the Suicide Squad vs. the Parasite.
in Firestorm (around #100, I think.)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 16:25:36 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Lightness
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I want the following end result using HERO mechanics:
The ability to decrease my own weight from the standard 100kg in
regular increments.
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:26:10 -0500 (EST)
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From: jprins@interhop.net (John and Ron Prins)
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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>Okay, here is a totally useless but amusing question:
>
>What are the top five fight sequences you have ever seen (any media)?
>This can include live action, animated, comic book, what ever. The only
>requirement is that it be between people, not space ships or fighter
>planes.
In no particular order:
A.) Deunan's big fight scene in Appleseed Book 4. 22+ pages of dynamism.
B.) Arnold vs. Brigitte in Red Sonya. I'll explain this one - yeah, they're
using hokey swords, but the choraography is decent and they actually _get
tired_ during the fight - something you seldom see. Arnie should've done
more sword-and-sorcery stuff :-).
C.) I don't remember which Jackie Chan flick this is in, but Jackie's trying
to eat w/ chopsticks, while the old dude is beating him up/swiping his food.
Jaw-dropping dexterity.
D.) Arcturus Rann vs. Baron Karza, Micronauts #11. No, wait, make that
Acroyear vs. Shaitan in Micronauts #12. One of the two.
E.) Julia and Theodore Diggers vs. the Gneiss' Sentinel, Gold Digger #29
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"By all that's unholy, the Enigma Force has given Captain Universe the power
to back up his sickening platitudes!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Prins
jprins@interhop.net
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:43:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Reply-To: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Just some more confusion
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On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> How would you calculate the KB from a EB Autofire, Indrect, Invisible
> Power Effects (except mental), the f/x being 'fluidic fisticuffs,' tiny
> poltergeist-like punches and pinches from all directions?
Actually, an atatck like that should probably considered "No KB", since it
doesn't sound like it is going to send anyone anywhere (except, maybe
straight down).
For the record the KB from an Autofire attack is determined by subtracting
2d6 from the largest amount of Body rolled in a single shot with +1 Body
added for each additional hit.
Example: You have a 6d6 AF and hit your target 4 times. You roll 8 Body
on one attack (which is the higest amount rolled on any). So you take
that 8 Body, add 3 Body for the rest of the hits (total 11) and then
subtract 2d6.
***************************************************************************
*"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net * * Visit "Surbrook's Stuff'
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NO CARRIER
aaAAA
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:53:58 -0800
From: RGSchwerdtfeger@directv.com (Richard G Schwerdtfeger)
Subject: Re[2]: Density Decrease (formerly Non shrinking shrinking)
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Rat said:
<quote>
An important thing to remember is not to get hung up on what a power
or effect is called when trying to determine what power(s) to use to
simulate a particular effect. As I just mentioned, a "density
decrease" effect by which the character becomes less substantial than
normal (volume remains the same but mass decreases), but not
completely insubstantial and isolated from the physical world,
physical and energy Damage Reduction will simulate this effect
reasonably well.
</quote>
A few levels in DCV would also work here. A normal attack might pass
through with no damage, but an area effect attack would still cause
normal damage.
Richard
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:56:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, John and Ron Prins wrote:
> >Okay, here is a totally useless but amusing question:
> >
> >What are the top five fight sequences you have ever seen (any media)?
> >This can include live action, animated, comic book, what ever. The only
> >requirement is that it be between people, not space ships or fighter
> >planes.
>
> In no particular order:
>
> A.) Deunan's big fight scene in Appleseed Book 4. 22+ pages of dynamism.
Told ya it was cool!
> B.) Arnold vs. Brigitte in Red Sonya. I'll explain this one - yeah, they're
> using hokey swords, but the choraography is decent and they actually _get
> tired_ during the fight - something you seldom see. Arnie should've done
> more sword-and-sorcery stuff :-).
Ever hear about Arnie's crusader flic he wanted to do? It was supposed to
be *MEGA* budget.
> C.) I don't remember which Jackie Chan flick this is in, but Jackie's trying
> to eat w/ chopsticks, while the old dude is beating him up/swiping his food.
> Jaw-dropping dexterity.
Hmmm... I think that is in "Fearless Hyena"
Which alo features the epic line:
"You wish to challenge me? So, you must be tired of living."
> D.) Arcturus Rann vs. Baron Karza, Micronauts #11. No, wait, make that
> Acroyear vs. Shaitan in Micronauts #12. One of the two.
> E.) Julia and Theodore Diggers vs. the Gneiss' Sentinel, Gold Digger #29
***************************************************************************
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* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
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***************************************************************************
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 14:15:15 -0800
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Cause Pain
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ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>
> Hurt-Waltz can cause pain by touching her opponents.
> What effects would 'pain' have on a target, and how would you work out
> the power(s) involved?
Okay, here is an advantage I've used before, but keep in mind that I
just blindly created it with no actual effort to judge its playability
or cost-effectiveness.
"Painful" - +1/2 (or 1/4 or whatever level one might think it is
worth). This power applied to an attack causes additional pain to a
target beyond that which would be considered 'normal' pain for said
attack. The mechanic is that after such an attack, the target aquires
an EGO roll in order to maintain combatting the 'painful' opponent. The
EGO roll is based on 'BODY' rolled on the dice/2 and modified by the
target's 'heroic' and other applicable Psych lims.
I. E. TortureBoy fires a 10D6 'painful' EB at TargetMan and hits.
Tha attack yields 11 BODY. TargetMan has a Psych Lim.
"self-sacrificing" for 15 points, so his next phase he has to make an
EGO roll at (11/2=5.5=5 - 15/5=3) -2 to attack TortureBoy again.
I.E. Next, TortureBoy attacks The Incredible Lump with his 'painful'
3D6 RKA and yields 9 BODY. The Incredible Lump has a Psych Lim 'Loves
Combat' for 10 points and 'Vengeful' for 15 points. Thus his EGO roll
next time to attack TB is
(9/2=4.5=4 - 10/5=2 - 15/5=3) actually at +1 to his roll, though he
still has to make a roll.
Now maybe the rolls need to be adjusted for armour or base damage, or
maybe the result shouldn't be an EGO roll, but like I said, I blindly
created this on the fly 'cause I wanted the effect for one of my NPCs,
so at the time, I didn't worry about cost or mechanics overmuch.
Perhaps folks might want to take the base concept and develop or
refine it?
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 14:20:53 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Cause Pain
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At 11:33 AM 12/1/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> Hurt-Waltz can cause pain by touching her opponents.
> What effects would 'pain' have on a target, and how would you work out
>the power(s) involved?
For this power, as described, I'd probably call for an AVLD vs Power
Defense, Damage Shield. (YMMV)
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Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 14:27:31 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Dream Powers
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At 07:51 PM 12/1/97, \"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk> wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:46:27 -0500 (EST), ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>
>> How would you simulate a character who could 'dream walk' --
>>enter another character's mind through their dreams.
>
>Mental Illusions or Telepathy, Only when Target is Asleep.
One could also go with Extra-Dimensional Movement (as per Champions in
3-D).
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Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 14:28:54 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Just some more confusion
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At 04:17 PM 12/1/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> How would you calculate the KB from a EB Autofire, Indrect, Invisible
>Power Effects (except mental), the f/x being 'fluidic fisticuffs,' tiny
>poltergeist-like punches and pinches from all directions?
From the fact that it's "from all directions," I'd insist that the Power
be bought with No Knockback.
Otherwise I'd just roll it like any other Autofire attack; the other
stuff doesn't affect Knockback.
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Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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From: dwtoomey@juno.com (David W Toomey)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 17:36:45 EST
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Inego Montoyez vs the Dread Pirate Roberts
Inego Montoyez vs Count Rugen (the six-fingered man)
Both from Princess Bride.
The book version of the first fight is actually better than the movie
version
*Anything* with Errol Flynn fencing, preferrably vs Basil Rathbone.
Guess this just shows my age, huh?
David W Toomey
dwtoomey@juno.com
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 14:39:24 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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At 01:46 PM 12/1/97 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>Okay, here is a totally useless but amusing question:
>
>What are the top five fight sequences you have ever seen (any media)?
>This can include live action, animated, comic book, what ever. The only
>requirement is that it be between people, not space ships or fighter
>planes.
You may be sorry you asked. Here are mine, approximately in order.
1. Xena vs a gang of bounty hunters in a recent episode of "Xena:
Warrior Princess."
2. George of the Jungle vs a lion in the "George of the Jungle" movie.
3. David Carradine vs three thugs in the Lipton's Tea commercial about
five years ago.
4. Rutger Hauer vs a bunch of barroom toughs in the opening scenes of
"Blind Fury."
5. Sgt. Slaughter vs one of the villains (I forget the guy's name) near
the end of "G. I. Joe: The Movie."
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Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:19:01 -0800
From: RGSchwerdtfeger@directv.com (Richard G Schwerdtfeger)
Subject: Re:Favorite battles
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Has everyone forgotten the sword fight between Inigo Montoya and the
Dread Pirate Roberts in the Princess Bride?
"I know something you don't know"
"What?"
"I'm not left handed."
Richard
Reply-To: <903047@ican.net>
From: "dflacks" <dflacks@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Cause Pain
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:50:18 -0500
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ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote;
>
> Hurt-Waltz can cause pain by touching her opponents.
> What effects would 'pain' have on a target, and how would you work out
> the power(s) involved?
>
There is a character named Aura in the Champions of the North supplement.
( A book I find myself referring to again and again.) She can send a
reflection any pain caused her in the last few seconds to someone else.
This was designed as an ego attack with feedback (-3/4). It also had the
limitation doesn't work on beserkers and psychopaths (-1/4).
I think that an ego attack is a good model for a pain inducing power. No
actual physical harm is done, ie. no body, but the target is definetly
effected. The pain effects a target no matter how strong their armour is,
but a high ego may allow them to be unaffected, fighting off the pain.
If the pain is induced through none mental means you may wish to use a
standard energy blast with the Stun only limitation. You, of course, don't
need the feedback limitation if it is not in your character design.
Some who is Berserk is out of control. They are not easily effected by
their surroundings. They are so filled with 'berserker fury' that they do
not feel the pain.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside a dog it's too dark to read.
dflacks@ican.net
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 18:11:04 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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At 05:36 PM 12/1/97 EST, David W Toomey wrote:
>Inego Montoyez vs the Dread Pirate Roberts
>Inego Montoyez vs Count Rugen (the six-fingered man)
>
>Both from Princess Bride.
How about the big swordfight in "The Court Jester?"
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Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 18:12:43 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re:Favorite battles
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At 03:19 PM 12/1/97 -0800, Richard G Schwerdtfeger wrote:
> Has everyone forgotten the sword fight between Inigo Montoya and the
> Dread Pirate Roberts in the Princess Bride?
Whoops, I had!
I'd also forgotten the great swordfight in the climactic scene in "The
Court Jester," where Danny Kaye keeps switching personalities. Stick that
one at #1 on my list, then Xena, then George, then Inigo/Westley, then
David Carridine.
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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Date: 01 Dec 1997 22:25:15 -0500
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "DWT" == David W Toomey <dwtoomey@juno.com> writes:
DWT> Both from Princess Bride.
DWT> The book version of the first fight is actually better than the movie
DWT> version
That would probably be because the fight choreography in that movie
*SUCKED*. Seriously, the dialog is fun, but the fencing bites.
DWT> *Anything* with Errol Flynn fencing, preferrably vs Basil Rathbone.
Ditto for Flynn... he was a boxer, not a fencer, and you can see it in his
footwork (or lack thereof). Rathbone, on the other hand, was an Olympic
fencer.
Which reminds me of another cool fight: from "The Court Jester", Rathbone
vs. Danny Kaye. Another real fight in that it was not choreographed.
Rathbone was fencing (defensively) for real.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\
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Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 23:37:55 -0500
From: "C. Badger" <wbandsis@westco.net>
Subject: Re: Character experience
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At 21:15 11/30/97, qts wrote:
>I've been having a think (always dangerous!)
>
>Would people agree that there is a general progression of experience
>reflected by cost in the various frameworks?
>
>With a multipower, generally a character can only use one or two powers
>at the same time.
>
>With an Elemental Control, a character can demonstrate their skill by
>performing all their tricks at the same time.
>
>With a Variable Power Pool, a character can demonstrate their mastery
>by doing *anything* [related to the SFX and guided by the Limitations,
>of course].
>
>Comments? And yes, I know that a VPP can be cheaper than an EC, but
>you've got the AP cap.
Also depending on what limits you might be able to use more then one power
in a VPP also......
But what are you trying to get at here?
Multipower is fairly easy to (low cost) to add something new, VPP easy to
increase powers of EC is harder to expand overall with new experience.
-----
C. Badger
My Feet hurt and I've forgotten how to dance.
Londo
Babylon 5
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:39:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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On 1 Dec 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> DWT> Both from Princess Bride.
> DWT> The book version of the first fight is actually better than the movie
> DWT> version
>
> That would probably be because the fight choreography in that movie
> *SUCKED*. Seriously, the dialog is fun, but the fencing bites.
I'd say the second fight is better than the first. The fight on the
cliffs is too linear. But hey, who watches _Princess Bride_ for the fight
scenes?
> DWT> *Anything* with Errol Flynn fencing, preferrably vs Basil Rathbone.
>
> Ditto for Flynn... he was a boxer, not a fencer, and you can see it in his
> footwork (or lack thereof). Rathbone, on the other hand, was an Olympic
> fencer.
I'd heard that Rathbone had to really down play his skill in orde to make
Flynn look good on camera.
> Which reminds me of another cool fight: from "The Court Jester", Rathbone
> vs. Danny Kaye. Another real fight in that it was not choreographed.
> Rathbone was fencing (defensively) for real.
So, Danny Kaye knew how to use a sword, or was he just that 'out of
control'?
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:42:17 -0800
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On Monday, December 01, 1997 2:38 PM, David W Toomey
>Inego Montoyez vs the Dread Pirate Roberts
>Inego Montoyez vs Count Rugen (the six-fingered man)
>
>Both from Princess Bride.
Agreed.
>The book version of the first fight is actually better than the movie
>version
Yes, yes, YES. The movie scene was great compared to such scenes in
general, but was only fair compared to the book. For those of you who
didn't know the book was written years in advance, and was very good,
I strongly recommend this book.
>*Anything* with Errol Flynn fencing, preferrably vs Basil Rathbone.
>
Two of the best swordsmen ever to grace the silver screen, beyond a
doubt.
>
>Guess this just shows my age, huh?
>
Not in the days of "American Movie Classics" on cable. Saying it shows
your age is what shows your age.
I generally agree with the votes for the final fight scene from Big
Trouble in Little China.
Also, the fight scene in Willow between Madmardigan, Willow, and one
goat on one side, and an army, trolls and a dragon on the other side
(sort of). The character of Madmardigan did some of the best
swordfighting scenes since Errol Flynn and Basil Rathbone (who was
once reputed to be the second best fencer in Europe).
I have to admit a sneaking liking for the final swordfight between
Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader.
Last but not least, the final fight scene in the Wolverine and Kitty
Pride limited series, where Kitty Pride was possessed by an immortal
ninja (though not in that scene).
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Re:Favorite battles
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:46:39 -0800
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On Monday, December 01, 1997 3:05 PM, Richard G Schwerdtfeger wrote:
> Has everyone forgotten the sword fight between Inigo Montoya and
the
> Dread Pirate Roberts in the Princess Bride?
>
> "I know something you don't know"
> "What?"
> "I'm not left handed."
I didn't forget it. I wasn't sure if I wanted to nominate it, though,
because I had read the book years before the movie, and compared to
the scene in the book, the movie version was disappointing.
Filksinger
X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.istar.ca: jenora owned process doing -bs
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:52:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Bryan Feir <jenora@istar.ca>
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On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> Okay, here is a totally useless but amusing question:
>
> What are the top five fight sequences you have ever seen (any media)?
> This can include live action, animated, comic book, what ever. The only
> requirement is that it be between people, not space ships or fighter
> planes.
I won't give all five, but I'll add one I haven't seen anywhere else
just because I liked it, as being one of the more realistic comic-book
fights I'd seen in a while... the barroom fight in one of the really
early issues of the Desert Peach (I think #2, maybe #3). A classic
example of why you don't bait someone who holds his temper in check...
---------------------------+---------------------------------------------------
Bryan Feir VA3GBF|"Advertising may be described as the science of
bryan@sgl.crestech.ca | arresting human intelligence long enough to get
jenora@istar.ca | money from it." -- Stephen Leacock
---------------------------+---------------------------------------------------
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:27:29 -0800
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On Monday, December 01, 1997 7:58 PM, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On 1 Dec 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
>> DWT> Both from Princess Bride.
>> DWT> The book version of the first fight is actually better than
the movie
>> DWT> version
>>
>> That would probably be because the fight choreography in that movie
>> *SUCKED*. Seriously, the dialog is fun, but the fencing bites.
>
>I'd say the second fight is better than the first. The fight on the
>cliffs is too linear. But hey, who watches _Princess Bride_ for the
fight
>scenes?
I have to agree that the fight choreography of the first scene was
pretty bad, but that isn't why it wasn't as good as the book (well,
not the only reason). The _dialog_ was better in the book, and so was
the situation. Additionally, in the book the Spainiard was _better_
than the Man in Black, at least overall. The Spaniard was the greatest
swordsman in the world. The Man in Black needed to find his special
"edge" in that scene in order to triumph, just like he didn't beat the
giant by strength.
>> DWT> *Anything* with Errol Flynn fencing, preferrably vs Basil
Rathbone.
>>
>> Ditto for Flynn... he was a boxer, not a fencer, and you can see it
in his
>> footwork (or lack thereof). Rathbone, on the other hand, was an
Olympic
>> fencer.
>
>I'd heard that Rathbone had to really down play his skill in orde to
make
>Flynn look good on camera.
That's true. I liked those scenes not because Flynn was a good fencer.
I liked those scenes because Flynn was better than virtually anyone
else in films, ever. Rathbone was better- he wasn't an actor
initially, he was a fencer, but Flynn was still better than anyone
else I could name. I liked those movies, not because of the
choreography, but because they _fenced_. Fencing in the movies, in
"combat" rather than competition (and usually in competition), is
_always_ bad.
I liked it the way I like those rare movies where two people use
actual unarmed combat skills, instead of what is typically shown on
camera. Bruce Lee was reported by a number of people who knew him to
be a truly superb fighter, but often gets a bad rap because he used
such fake fighting in the movies.
>> Which reminds me of another cool fight: from "The Court Jester",
Rathbone
>> vs. Danny Kaye. Another real fight in that it was not
choreographed.
>> Rathbone was fencing (defensively) for real.
>
>So, Danny Kaye knew how to use a sword, or was he just that 'out of
>control'?
>
Neither one. Danny Kaye may have fenced (he did almost anything he
ever wanted in his life, if he wanted to fence, he did it), but that
wasn't why they didn't choreograph the scene. They just knew that Kaye
would never touch Rathbone, so they let him have his fun.
Filksinger
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:30:20 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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> > That would probably be because the fight choreography in that movie
> > *SUCKED*. Seriously, the dialog is fun, but the fencing bites.
>
> I'd say the second fight is better than the first. The fight on the
> cliffs is too linear. But hey, who watches _Princess Bride_ for the fight
> scenes?
Hmmm. Me, for one. They're quite exciting and heroic and all
that.
I'd rank both among my top list -- speaking of which.
> > Ditto for Flynn... he was a boxer, not a fencer, and you can see it in his
> > footwork (or lack thereof). Rathbone, on the other hand, was an Olympic
> > fencer.
>
> I'd heard that Rathbone had to really down play his skill in orde to make
> Flynn look good on camera.
Hmmm. Interesting. I've liked what (little) I've seen of Flynn,
mostly because he has such flair. Flair -- an important component of
movie fights.
Now for my top fights, in no real particular order. (And limited
by what I have and haven't seen)
M*O*V*I*E*S
-Montoya vs Rubin at the end of Princess Bride, and not quite as
good, but up there for the humor and setup, Man in Black vs Montoya on the
cliffs. (I know they've been criticized, but I still find them wonderful
to observe.)
-Rocky vs Creed at the end of Rocky I, and again at the end of
Rocky II. (Hard to differentiate these two)
-Tim Roth's character vs Rob Roy at the end of Rob Roy
-The final fight of The Magnificent Seven
-The "no rules in a knife fight" scene of Butch Cassidy and the
Sundance Kid.
-The final fight in Enter the Dragon
-In Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story -- fight where Bruce proves he can
beat any man in less than 60 seconds.
-Urotsokidoji -- wait, that wasn't a *fight* scene . . .
-Snake Pliskin vs. the big gladiator in Escape from New York (he
was really fighting for his life in that one)
-Dragon Scroll -- fight vs the blind demon in the forest
-Final Gun exchange in Reservoir Dogs
-Honorable Mention (does this count as a fight) to the "Touchdown"
Run at the beginning of The Last Boy Scout
I'll get back with other genres.
-Tim Gilberg
From: "Len Carpenter" <redlion@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: Waste of Bandwidth
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:05:47 -0500
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For comic book fights, the Avengers vs. Count Nefaria when Nefaria
had juiced himself up by stealing the powers of the Living Laser, the
original Power Man, and the Whirlwind, all magnified a hundredfold.
The X-Men vs. Proteus. Iron Man vs. the Hulk, when Iron Man knocked
out the Hulk by putting all of his armor's power into a single punch,
causing an armor shutdown that trapped Tony Stark inside his armor.
For a short fight, "The Philistine" strip in Marvel's Bizarre
Adventures #31. Frank Miller did some great work in black and white.
Also, "Dr. Death with Kip and Muffy" from the same issue, for the
satirical value.
Last but not least, Thrud the Barbarian vs. anyone.
Len Carpenter
redlion@early.com
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:06:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
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Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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At first glance I thought this would be easy, but I have so many choices.
For Comics:
1. The final battle in Kingdom Come. Over 100 super types in a
battleroyal with the fate of the world in the balance. Two sides that
want to destroy the other and a third side that wants to stop the other
two from doing that. And the main event, Superman v. Capt. Marvel, with
Marvel using his lightning to do a number on Supers.
Honorable mention:
The final battle between Wolverine and the Demonninja in the
Wolverine/Kitty Pryde limited series.
Lobo v. Vril Dox back in the early days of LEGION before Lobo went on
steroids and became a total idiot.
Batman v. Bronze Tiger in Suicide Squad, just for the line
Batman: We've fought before.
Bronze Tiger: And I kicked your butt. Want to get out of my way now?
Most of the Lady Shiva appearances, despite the fact that The Question was
the only book that really knew how to use the character.
Movies:
1. I have to agree with Surbrook here. Jackie Chan v. Benny The Jet in
Dragons Forever is my all time favorite fight scene. It didn't have a
great sound track or much comedy, but it was very well choreographed, with
alot of back and forth action. I can't think of a martial arts scene that
is even close, except maybe Chan v. Benny in Wheels on Meals.
Honorable mention:
Bruce Lee in the Dojo in Chinese Connection. Bruce Lee was supremely
skilled and it showed.
The hospital fight in Hardboiled, especially Chow Yun Fat & Tony Leong
(sp?) against Maddog.
Chun Li v.Vega in the animated Streetfighter movie. Nuff said.
Ranma v. Ryoga, when Ryoga learned the breaking point technique.
Michelle Yoeh in general, but especially in Wing Chun.
MacLeod v. Kurgen in the first Highlander movie. Especially the European
release that has additional footage that was cut out from the American
release.
And the worst scenes I've ever seen?
Nearly every fight scene in Mortal Kombat II. Truly awful. After how
good a number of the fights were in MK I, this was especially
disappointing.
Most of the Carradine fights in the new Kung Fu.
TokyoMark
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:11:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
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> -Tim Roth's character vs Rob Roy at the end of Rob Roy
I forgot about this one. I bought 'previously viewed' copy of this movie
just for this fight scene.
> -Urotsokidoji -- wait, that wasn't a *fight* scene . . .
In Urotsukidoji III, the fight between Amano Jyaku and Munihausen on top
of 6 nuclear missles was memorable.:)
>
> -Snake Pliskin vs. the big gladiator in Escape from New York (he
> was really fighting for his life in that one)
Well, consider the gladiator was Ox Baker, from my home town of
Indianapolis. He accidently killed two men in the wrestling ring as a pro
wrestler, so you are right on here. REALLY fighting for his life:)
TokyoMark
From: "Len Carpenter" <redlion@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwidth Question #1
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:25:22 -0500
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For swashbuckling movie fights, The Three Musketeers and The Four
Musketeers films produced in the 1970s, especially the final confrontation
between Michael York and Christopher Lee in the convent, where the two
evenly matched men fight until completely exhausted.
To see how sword fights can be choreographed, check out this video--The
Blow By Blow guide to Swordfighting in the Renaissance Style, presented by
Mike Loades and produced by Running Wolf Productions. It's available from
Barnes & Noble bookseller. The tape is aimed at drama students who wish
for an introduction to stage swordfighting, but most anyone would enjoy
it.
Len Carpenter
redlion@early.com
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:55:51 -0600 (CST)
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From: Michael Nunn <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwidth Question #1
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The best fight scene in any movie has to be the fight between,
Roddy Piper and David Keith in "They Live" not only a great fight
but the reason they fight...
Piper "Put on these glasses."
Keith "No way and I putting on thoses glasses."
Piper "Put on these glasses or eat that trash can."
On a side note Keith was the voice of Spawn on the HBO toon version, they
should have gotten him for the movie.
An awesome comic fight was between the Hulk and Sasquatch in a Hulk form the
early 80's, Sassy took enough knockback to go through 27 "giant" sequya
(sp?) trees!
Michael
Rising Force Publications
Herozine The Superhero RPG Fanzine...
http://members.aol.com/hzineweb/index.htm
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Infra-Red Vision
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:42:41 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
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>
> By default, does someone with powers like infrared vision, ultravision,
> etc. works at the same time with each other and normal sight or the
> character would have to specify which one he is using ?
Depends on the special effect.
Spectrum, a villianess from my 1980's game who was living light across
the entire electromagnetic spectrum. For her it would be all at once.
However, Heavy Metal in his days in the marines might have
used IR glasses. These would have been either or.
> Is Infra-Red and ultravision targeting senses by default ? Ultravision
> I think is because it says it is like normal sight, but what about the
> infrared?
Yes, both are targeting.
> How do you usually consider the way infra-red works? Does it just see
> what we would normally see but seeing the temperature instead of the
> colors (light reflected) of the objects, or could it also see through cold
> things (walls example) and see the hot things in there (people example) ?
>
Depends on special effect. Heavy Metal's IR goggles would simply
make all the temperature detail red and yelow so his normal eyes could
process it.
Spectrum would see it in it's full brilliance. Would she see through
things? She would, but this not the IR vision power. This is N-Ray vision
defined as active IR vision. Blocked by thick areas of the same temperature
gradient.
Game-mechanic wise IR vision is just a see in the dark power that
allows you to diferentiate temperatures.
Unfortunatly the enhanced senses section of the Hero rules is
the one place where they put special effect into the power. So it can
often confuse people.
Rook : a common Old World gregarious bird related to the American crow.
Super Hero Links Page: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Characteristics
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:53:40 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
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>
> I have heard of Penetrating PRE, used in Presence attacks.
> I have also heard of Advantages like Reduced END applied to STR.
> Could you apply other Advantages to Characteristics?
I've used lots of advatnages and lims on stats.
Before I outgrew my power gaming stage in the 80's, I used to try to
stik them all into EC's. But I almost never allow that now. The rules
define it as illegal without a GM ok anyway. Which means to me that it
better be the only way to do it (I'll give a player more points before I
ok that one).
However, often used items are linked (link Dex to shrinking for
example, or even Con and Body to simulate mass to energy conversion).
Invisible power effects could be used on PRE to make people
follow you without reaizing why or who. But that's a long stretch.
Activation rolls on part of a stat are common. As is side effect.
You could put a 1d6 cummulative tranform side effect on all stats above
normal human max on a character who is slowly being transformed into
something undesirable every time they "use the power".
> My questions are: How do the Advantages affect the aspects of
> a Char. (STR used with a weapon, for example; a character with
> a STR 20 Penetrating would be able to lift as much as a character
> with STR 20, I would assume)? How would the primary CHar. affect
> secondary Char. (Difficult to Dispel CON effects on END)
>
The penetrating str guy lifts 20 str points worth. just as a normal
20 str does.
No effects on secondary characteristics, you have to buy that
seperatly.
Rook : a common Old World gregarious bird related to the American crow.
Super Hero Links Page: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:54:25 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Subject: Infra-Red Vision
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By default, does someone with powers like infrared vision, ultravision,
etc. works at the same time with each other and normal sight or the
character would have to specify which one he is using ?
Is Infra-Red and ultravision targeting senses by default ? Ultravision
I think is because it says it is like normal sight, but what about the
infrared?
How do you usually consider the way infra-red works? Does it just see
what we would normally see but seeing the temperature instead of the
colors (light reflected) of the objects, or could it also see through cold
things (walls example) and see the hot things in there (people example) ?
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Bounced messages from hero-l list coming to me for some reason.
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:31:22 +0000 (GMT)
Reply-To: rook@infinex.com
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
Hello;
I just recieved about 7 messages from October which I'd sent to the
list.
I know they got to the list originally as I recall reading them
and having some of them discussed by others.
My assumption is someone who dropped out some time back is finally bounc
ing and for some reason I'm getting it all...
Either that or it's bouncing due to the domain name I had then and the
one I have now being diferent...
Rook : a common Old World gregarious bird related to the American crow.
Super Hero Links Page: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Here's one of them: ####################################################
>
> Please note that the system that this message was addressed to no
> longer exists, or is not a Member of the IMA Gateway system, and
> that the below message is undeliverable. So it is being deleted.
>
> It would be a good idea to confirm that you are using the correct address.
>
> If this is a valid system, but not a valid Member of the IMA, they can
> contact me at the address below about joining our gateway.
>
> Also, if this is a mailing list, please remove the intended recipient
> from all of your configs and listings. The address of the intended
> recipient is listed right after the "Apparently-to:" line towards the
> top of the text below.
>
> Note: If the original message WAS part of a mailing list, and you're
> unable to remove this person from the listing, please forward a copy of
> this message to the list keeper (coordinator) for removal.
>
> Thanks,
> John McAlpin - IMA Gatekeeper
> john.mcalpin@1202.ima.infomail.com
> FidoNet 1:382/1202
>
> (NONODE.TXT)
> Original message:
>
> --
> Date: Fri Oct 24 '97, 13:12:08
> Attr: pvt fwd kil
> From: Brian Wong, (1:382/87.0)
> To : hero-l, (1:382/111.0)
> Subj: Overdoing/Underdoing Disads?
> --
> From: Brian Wong <rook@sanfran.infinex.com>
> @Message-Id: <199710241812.LAA27585@sanfran.infinex.com>
> @Subject: Overdoing/Underdoing Disads?
> @Mime-Version: 1.0
> @Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> @Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
> @Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
> @To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> Overdoing/Underdoing Disads?
>
> How harsh are most of us on character disads?
>
> Do you look for a chance at every turn to stomp on a PC using it's disads?
>
> Do you just ignore them for the most part?
>
> Use them as minor subplots or to flesh out a character?
>
> Or some mix of these methods?
>
> Should a character with a DNPC always find themselves rescuing
> the DNPC from danger? Or they should they mostly find themselves just
> being sidetracked into subplots with that DNPC?
>
> Where does one draw the line on this?
>
> Rook
> Also known as Arcady on #herochat, #Fuzionchat, #gurps, #V&V,
> and #SuperHeroChat in DALnet IRC
>
> My Champions Webpage is at:
> http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
>
> Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
> http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
>
> ---
> --
> | Fidonet: NetMgr+ 1:382/86
> |Internet: NetMgr+@ima.infomail.com
> |
> |Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly their own.
>
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Odd abilities.
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:45:33 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
Reply-To: rook@infinex.com
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>
> On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>
> > Here are some odd abilities I need to simulate:
> >
> > Imposing bad luck on others within a certain of the character
> > generating the power.
>
> Well... there are a number of ways of simulating 'bad luck'. One would be
> to buy 'x' dice of (un)Luck. It say that enough dice of (un)Luck will
> affect your team mates, so... This power should have Ranged, Area of
> Effect and Personal Immunity on it.
>
Making your allies Unlucky:
1. Unluck with personal immunity, get more than 3 dice. personal immunity
makes the disad worth less rather than more. As a disad,
it would only affect those not 'against you'
2. Luck usable by others, only those opposed to you or you allies.
Area affect, lim that anyone in area get's to use it, regardless of
your wishes.
Unluck as an attack:
Luck usable by others, area affect, always on. Selective. Lim that it can
only be used to help people/things opposed to whoever you wish to 'curse'.
Rook : a common Old World gregarious bird related to the American crow.
Super Hero Links Page: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
X-Sender: wga@pop.cwru.edu
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 07:51:58 -0500
From: Will Austin <wga@po.cwru.edu>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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At 01:46 PM 12/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Okay, here is a totally useless but amusing question:
>
>What are the top five fight sequences you have ever seen (any media)?
>This can include live action, animated, comic book, what ever. The only
>requirement is that it be between people, not space ships or fighter
>planes.
Okay, here's some comicbook fights that I think are classic:
1.) Miracleman vs. Kid Miracleman (from Miracleman #1-2)
2.) Miracleman and crew vs. Kid Miracleman (from Miracleman #12-13--I can't
remember offhand. . .)
3.) The Avengers vs. Count Nefaria (Avengers #164-166)
============================================================================
Nomad
wga@po.cwru.edu
myrtth@geocities.com
"Relationships are hard. It's like a full-time job, and we should treat it
like one. If your boyfriend or
girlfriend wants to leave you, they should give you two weeks' notice.
There should be severance
pay, and before they leave you, they should have to find you a temp."
--Bob Ettinger
============================================================================
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 08:01:56 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Characteristics
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
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I have heard of Penetrating PRE, used in Presence attacks.
I have also heard of Advantages like Reduced END applied to STR.
Could you apply other Advantages to Characteristics?
Difficult to DIspel and Useable by Others seem to be
able to adapt to all Char. STR could be coupled with a number
of offensive Advantages (Area of Effect to represent the use of a
long 'brick-ripped' weapon [someone cited this earlier], AP,
Double Knockback, Penetrating, & Reduced END; more questionable
Advantages in my mind: Autofire [how would this function with attacks?
all attacks that utilize STR? what about HtH weapon use?], Affects
Desolidified [would this let you 'touch' Desolid characters?],
Continous, Damage Shield [I don't see these happening], Invisible
Power Effects [...I don't know. Invisible to Touch for a light handed
theif?], NND [leaning towards a negative], No Range Penalty [would this
allow bricks to throw boulders w/o penalty?], Variable Special Effects
[How would this work?].
My questions are: How do the Advantages affect the aspects of
a Char. (STR used with a weapon, for example; a character with
a STR 20 Penetrating would be able to lift as much as a character
with STR 20, I would assume)? How would the primary CHar. affect
secondary Char. (Difficult to Dispel CON effects on END)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:10:48 -0500
From: Connie Bechtel <+CONNIEB@CSI.compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Content-Disposition: inline
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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---No Particular Order---
--The entire final battle between the good guys and the bad guys cumilating
in the death of the mega-villian at the hands of Kurt Russell's knife in Big
Trouble in Little China.
--Most any Steven Segal movie.
--Daredevil vs Bullseye in the battle that ultimately left Bullseye
paralysed.
--The sword battle between Inyo Montoya and Wesley/the Dread Pirate Roberts
from the Princess Bride.
From: Michael Surbrook, >INTERNET:susano@access.digex.net
TO: Champions, INTERNET:champ-l@omg.org
DATE: 12/1/97 2:42 PM
RE: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Okay, here is a totally useless but amusing question:
What are the top five fight sequences you have ever seen (any media)?
This can include live action, animated, comic book, what ever. The only
requirement is that it be between people, not space ships or fighter
planes.
My five?
(in no real order)
1) The Thing and Johnny Storm vs Terrax in FF issues... (uh, damn, I
forgot). Anyway this is the three issue series that had Doc Doom and the
Silver Surfer show up (And Reed Richards put on trial for saving Galactus)
2) Chun Li vs Vega in "Streetfighter II the Animated Movie".
3) Jet Li vs "The Killing Machine" at the end of "Fist of Legend".
4) Son Goku (and Vegita) vs Metal Kooler in Dragonball Z Movie 6
5) Jackie Chan (you *knew* there had to be a Jacke Chan fight scene in
here, didn't you?), Samo Hung and Yeung Biao vs Yuen Wah, Bennie the Jet
and a zillion mooks at the end of "Dragons Forever".
Honorable mentions include:
The opening gunfight in "Hard Boiled"
The final gunfight in "The Killer"
Chow Yun Fat vs some mooks in in the begining of "Full Contact"
Jubei's fight with Tessa at the begining of "Ninja Scroll"
Jubei's fight with Genma at the end of "Ninja Scroll"
Jubei and Kagero's fight with Utsutsu in the middle of "Ninja Scroll"
(hmm... seem to be in a rut there)
Deunan Knute vs a bunch of terrorists in a collapsed building in Appleseed
book 4 (I think)
Bruce Lee vs a zillion goons in Dr. Han's basement in "Enter the Dragon"
Jackie Chan vs Ken Lo in "Drunken Master II"
Jackie Chan vs Bennie the Jet in "Wheels on Meals"
Hmm... I seem to be a bit sparse in the comic department...
Okay, one last one then:
Manji vs the other immortal guy in Call of the Worm #3 ("Blade of the
Immortal").
Uh... hmmm only one western comic ... oh well.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:23:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Infra-Red Vision
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria wrote:
> By default, does someone with powers like infrared vision, ultravision,
> etc. works at the same time with each other and normal sight or the
> character would have to specify which one he is using ?
I would say that IR vision is 'on' by default, unless the IR vision is in
a focus or multipower.
> Is Infra-Red and ultravision targeting senses by default ? Ultravision
> I think is because it says it is like normal sight, but what about the
> infrared?
Both IR and UV are in the sight group, and the sight group is a trageting
sense. So, yes, both are targeting senses by default.
> How do you usually consider the way infra-red works? Does it just see
> what we would normally see but seeing the temperature instead of the
> colors (light reflected) of the objects, or could it also see through cold
> things (walls example) and see the hot things in there (people example) ?
Uh... IR should let you see tempature gradients. Hot things are red,
orange, yellow or white, while cool things are dark red to black. By
nature, IR has some X-ray or N-ray capabilites. I do know that one can
use an IR scope to look into a stand of trees and pick out people and warm
engines that would normally be hidden by leaves. As to looking through
walls? I'll let some of the people with military experience answer that.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Test
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:28:30 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Got your test.
The list is up.
all the bounces are about a month old or more...
so something way out in the boondocks of the net has just figured out it can't
get the lists mail or something...
>
> This is a test.
>
> I've just gotten 20+ bounced messages from numerous people. This is
> getting out of hand.
>
> ***************************************************************************
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
> * Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
> * Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
> * http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
> * Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
> ***************************************************************************
>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:50:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Fights!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Okay, now that people have started to mention their favorite fights, what
suggestions to people have to make Hero fights move (or work) like this
fictional fights?
For example: In a lot of martial arts flims the hero (or heroes) will one
punch his way through the 'popcorn' until he reaches the big boss. In
Feng Shui they handle this with a system where the mooks are either up or
down. There is no damage to worry about.
Example Two: Ever watch a John Woo gunfight? (See Face/Off, The Killer
or Hard Boiled). Any suggestions on how to get the characters moving
around the battle field? I mean people in these fights are leaping
through windows, over tables, sliding down stairs etc.
How about location? Any ideas on how to get the characters to move from
one entire local to another? By this I dont mean bouncing around in the
current fight scene, I'm talking more of the Indiana Jones styled fast
moving sequence where the characters go from point A to point B to point C
in a short period of time (usually battling someone at the same time).
Mega Damage: Cell points his fist and vaporizes a city. Hulk tosses Power
Man through some skyscrapers. Spidey gets the Capt Universe power and
punches Hulk into orbit.
Doinng some (or all) of this is Hero System can get might expensive (or
impossible). Is this a case of differing point values, or should the GM
just 'wing it' when describing certain types of damage. Would it be out
of line for the 60 STR brick to pick up a character and toss him *through*
a building with no damage dice rolled?
Finally, any ideas on how to siumlate the fast and furious action of a
good one-on-one fencing match or martial arts fight? Limit the characters
time to make descisions? Have a lot of stuff rolled out in advance?
Feedback appreciated. I'll probably collect everyone's comments annd
write a Herozine article or something.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:00:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Reply-To: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: RE: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Five Funniest Fight Scenes:
Batman vs. Guy Gardner (ringless!) in Justice League. "One Punch!"
The interminable "Put on these glasses" fight in They Live.
Suicide Squad vs. the Justice League. (The Martian Manhunter & Vixen have
a touching reunion, Deadshot's Psych Lims won't let him shoot Batman,
Captain Atom and Nightshade are *dating*, so Batman & Rick Flagg are the
only ones who actually fight, and beat each other to a pulp.)
King Arthur vs. the Black Knight in Monty Python & the Holy Grail. "It's
just a flesh wound!"
Jack Burton's contribution to the wedding battle in BTILC.
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 07:30:47 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Characteristics
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At 08:01 AM 12/2/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> I have heard of Penetrating PRE, used in Presence attacks.
Only if PRE Defense (PRE, Defensive Only) is in play does this make any
sense at all, and since a PRE Attack gives an "effect" as opposed to
"damage" it wouldn't make any difference in play.
>I have also heard of Advantages like Reduced END applied to STR.
This is actually relatively common among Bricks.
>Could you apply other Advantages to Characteristics?
Sure. It depends on what the player is trying to model.
> Difficult to DIspel and Useable by Others seem to be
>able to adapt to all Char.
To an extent, anyway. DtD would be universal (depending on SFX), but
UBO is a controversial application in the first place. Most GMs would
prefer Aid (though the dynamic in this case is different).
> ...STR could be coupled with a number
>of offensive Advantages (Area of Effect to represent the use of a
>long 'brick-ripped' weapon [someone cited this earlier], AP,
>Double Knockback, Penetrating, & Reduced END; more questionable
>Advantages in my mind: Autofire [how would this function with attacks?
>all attacks that utilize STR? what about HtH weapon use?], Affects
>Desolidified [would this let you 'touch' Desolid characters?],
>Continous, Damage Shield [I don't see these happening], Invisible
>Power Effects [...I don't know. Invisible to Touch for a light handed
>theif?], NND [leaning towards a negative], No Range Penalty [would this
>allow bricks to throw boulders w/o penalty?], Variable Special Effects
>[How would this work?].
This last item is used by Starhand, one of the Hand villain group in
Challenges for Champions. An alien invaded his hand and can alter the way
his strength is focused.
> My questions are: How do the Advantages affect the aspects of
>a Char. (STR used with a weapon, for example; a character with
>a STR 20 Penetrating would be able to lift as much as a character
>with STR 20, I would assume)? How would the primary CHar. affect
>secondary Char. (Difficult to Dispel CON effects on END)
According to what's written, a Characteristic with Advantages
automatically takes No Figured Characteristics with no bonus. The only
cases where I've seen Advantages on a Characteristic, though, have been
with STR (usually Reduced END, but Armor Piercing and Variable Advantage as
well, that I can think of specific examples for), and this rule is not
applied in any case that I'm aware of.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 07:35:35 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Infra-Red Vision
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At 08:54 AM 12/2/97 -0200, Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria wrote:
> By default, does someone with powers like infrared vision, ultravision,
>etc. works at the same time with each other and normal sight or the
>character would have to specify which one he is using ?
By default they are all active at once, just as all other senses (sight,
hearing, touch, etc.) are active at once.
> Is Infra-Red and ultravision targeting senses by default ? Ultravision
>I think is because it says it is like normal sight, but what about the
>infrared?
I've generally treated IR Vision as Targeting.
> How do you usually consider the way infra-red works? Does it just see
>what we would normally see but seeing the temperature instead of the
>colors (light reflected) of the objects, or could it also see through cold
>things (walls example) and see the hot things in there (people example) ?
I've generally allowed the latter application only in specific
circumstances; among them that the things being seen through have to be of
the same temperature as the environment. (The situation hasn't come up
very often, though, so I may be a bad person to ask.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 07:40:15 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwidth Question #1
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At 02:55 AM 12/2/97 -0600, Michael Nunn wrote:
>The best fight scene in any movie has to be the fight between,
>Roddy Piper and David Keith in "They Live" not only a great fight
>but the reason they fight...
>Piper "Put on these glasses."
>Keith "No way and I putting on thoses glasses."
>Piper "Put on these glasses or eat that trash can."
This brings to mind (for reasons unknown to me) what was my first
instinct as an answer to the original question, except that I wasn't sure
it'd qualify.
My all-time favorite battle is from an early episode of "The Young
Indiana Jones Chronicles," where Indy is matching multilinguistic skills
with a young woman who would later become his lady love.
Not a single blow is struck, except to Indy's ego ("With a name like
Jones, you don't speak Welsh?"). Yet I see feints, parries, surprise
moves, and enough action to keep me on the edge of my seat.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Test
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:37:58 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: hero-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> >I am still getting these bounced mail messages. The number is now 40+
>
> Where I'm at, it exceeds 300, and it's still growing. It took nearly an
> hour for me to download it all at 9600 baud. (Hence my proposal re: the
> person responsible in another post.)
Boy I'm glad I'm connected through a telnet session from a terminal
on multiple T3's right now...
I've hit the 'D' key for delete more times than I want to know today...
I hope this clears up before I go home and am stuck downloading 3 gigs on
a 33.6 connection just to read the real mail...
Rook : a common Old World gregarious bird related to the American crow.
Super Hero Links Page: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: End of the bouncing message? Not really
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:53:56 +0000 (GMT)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Hello;
I read a few of the most recent bounces and discovered they were
messages new from today.
As I'm sitting on a T3 right now, I imagine I'm getting this faster
than the rest of you.
So while they will appear to finally drop off, it looks as if they've
only caught up. I'd guess it took about a hundred to reach this point.
Doubtless this message will bounce too.
The bounces seem to be about 4 hours behind right now.
Rook : a common Old World gregarious bird related to the American crow.
Super Hero Links Page: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: NetMgr+@ima.infomail.com (NetMgr+)
Date: 02 Dec 97 12:18:12 -0600
X-To: hero-l@october.com
Subject: Bounced message
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: yakuza.fc.net ip 207.170.70.19
X-Smtp-Mail-From: ima!netmgr+@yakuza.fc.net
Organization: Austin InfoMail Association - Austin, Texas
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Please note that the system that this message was addressed to no
longer exists, or is not a Member of the IMA Gateway system, and
that the below message is undeliverable. So it is being deleted.
It would be a good idea to confirm that you are using the correct address.
If this is a valid system, but not a valid Member of the IMA, they can
contact me at the address below about joining our gateway.
Also, if this is a mailing list, please remove the intended recipient
from all of your configs and listings. The address of the intended
recipient is listed right after the "Apparently-to:" line towards the
top of the text below.
Note: If the original message WAS part of a mailing list, and you're
unable to remove this person from the listing, please forward a copy of
this message to the list keeper (coordinator) for removal.
Thanks,
John McAlpin - IMA Gatekeeper
john.mcalpin@1202.ima.infomail.com
FidoNet 1:382/1202
(NONODE.TXT)
Original message:
--
Date: Sun Oct 26 '97, 23:12:00
Attr: pvt fwd kil
From: Opal, (1:382/87.0)
To : hero-l, (1:382/111.0)
Subj: Re: Comic book martial a
--
From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
@Subject: Re: Comic book martial a
@Message-Id: <cef_9710270035@october.com>
@X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
@Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
@Precedence: bulk
@Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
@Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
@Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
@To: champ-l@omg.org
h >
h > What you've got to do as a GM is to _restrict_ everybody else's DEX to
h > lower levels. Martial Artists built to 'realistic' standards will get
h > creamed every time by those DEX 18 Bricks. Ask the other players (and N
h > villians) why they should, under their character concept, get more than
h > DEX. Suddenly that 23 DEX martial artist isn't looking so bad - especia
Some non-martial artist concepts (speedsters for instance) also call for
superhuman DEX. And, it seems wrong to artificially restrict what
other characters buy. A non-superhuman (DEX 17-20, SPD 4) Martial Artist
can certainly hold his own against serious super-heros, even if everyone
else is running arround at DEX 23, SPD 5. Level can be the great equilizer
in such a situation. If you look at the published stuff, most characters
have either no levels, or only a few. The most you see is 4 or 5.
So, after you've spent say, 40 pts on your martial arts (giving you
say, 4 DC's and a substantial range of manuevers, including an offensive
strike, so you can do 12d with your 20 STR), drop another 15 into
martial arts levels (thats +5), and another 15 into DCV levels to
help out against ranged attacks (+3). Your DCV with a Martial Dodge
is now (assuming 20 DEX) 20! The cool part is that you dodge, and keep
that obscene DCV until your next phase, while higher SPD characters
either save and waste phases or throw attacks at you hoping to roll
a 3. :) I've done pretty well with characters like this, both against
really fast Speedsters and Martial Artists, and tougher brick types.
Of course you better get a little armore so you don't get killed
when your luck runs out and that autofire KA/hurrled car/firball/
whatever taggs you when you least expect it.
Still, the 'normal' (Stat wise) Martial Artist can work, you just
need very abnormal skill.
___
* OFFLINE 1.58
---
--
| Fidonet: NetMgr+ 1:382/86
|Internet: NetMgr+@ima.infomail.com
|
|Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly their own.
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 13:19:20 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Odd abilities.
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
X-UID: 32
Here are some odd abilities I need to simulate:
Imposing bad luck on others within a certain of the character
generating the power.
Having a creature who disappears as soon as sunlight touches it,
and reappears when night time consumes the area again.
The ability of a certain creature to have 'enchanted blood,'
that endows different types of creatures with different abilities.
The effects on one type of creature are consistant (i.e. elves drinking
the blood would grow thorns out of ther flesh, dwarves would become
stone-like, orcs gain stregnth, humans have enhanced perception, etc.),
and the effects eventually wear off.
[I know this would be a transform. I just need to know how one
can 'tap' the 'units' of blood & how to balance out the temporary trans-
formations].
The ability to utterly and totally financially ruin someone within
a period of days with one phone call.
[Things crossed my mind like 'Drain Wealth' and 'Transform: Poverty.'
If you think that's bad, how the heck would you "target" such a person?
Or would you "target" their assets?].
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:51:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Odd abilities.
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> Here are some odd abilities I need to simulate:
>
> Imposing bad luck on others within a certain of the character
> generating the power.
Well... there are a number of ways of simulating 'bad luck'. One would be
to buy 'x' dice of (un)Luck. It say that enough dice of (un)Luck will
affect your team mates, so... This power should have Ranged, Area of
Effect and Personal Immunity on it.
Another way is to buy Invisible & Indirect TK. Possibly with a limitation
of "Bad Luck Effects Only".
The third way is to buy a VPP with Advantages such as No Skill Roll and No
Time to Change. This would be balanced out by limitations such as
"Limited SFX - Bad Luck Effects" and "Can't be conciously activated by
character"
> Having a creature who disappears as soon as sunlight touches it,
> and reappears when night time consumes the area again.
Triggered Extra-Dimensional Movement.
> The ability of a certain creature to have 'enchanted blood,'
> that endows different types of creatures with different abilities.
> The effects on one type of creature are consistant (i.e. elves drinking
> the blood would grow thorns out of ther flesh, dwarves would become
> stone-like, orcs gain stregnth, humans have enhanced perception, etc.),
> and the effects eventually wear off.
> [I know this would be a transform. I just need to know how one
> can 'tap' the 'units' of blood & how to balance out the temporary trans-
> formations].
I don't think this should matter as a power. Sure, you are using
Transform (with a limitation of 'semi-random effects). The rest of that
should be simple plot line. You could say 1 dose per Body in the
creature, although getting all the doses might take some time (you would
have to render the creature down for starters). Balancing the
transformations is easy; just make all of them use the same Active Points.
> The ability to utterly and totally financially ruin someone within
> a period of days with one phone call.
Dunno, but I want that power too.
> [Things crossed my mind like 'Drain Wealth' and 'Transform: Poverty.'
> If you think that's bad, how the heck would you "target" such a person?
> Or would you "target" their assets?].
You don't. This is the realm of plot. Figure who is doing the call, and
who they know. In my cyberpunk game, there is a 200 point fixer who could
do this trick easy. Sge doesn't have any special powers, but she has a
big list of contacts, favors and wealth. For her, ruining someone
finacially would just take 1 call at which point the GM takes over and
decides what happens to the target.
The same holds true for a hacker character from the same game. She
doesn't need any specific powers, she has enough Comp Prog and SC:
Computer Virus Construction to write an asset eating bug in no time (and
set it loose on some poor sap).
This isn't a power, this is where the PC finds out exactly what NCI stands
for next to that Hunted on his character sheet.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:55:36 -0800
From: mcallahan <mcallahan@home.com>
Reply-To: mcallahan@home.com
Subject: Re: Fights!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
>Example Two: Ever watch a John Woo gunfight? (See Face/Off, The Killer
>or Hard Boiled). Any suggestions on how to get the characters moving
>around the battle field? I mean people in these fights are leaping
>through windows, over tables, sliding down stairs etc.
A). Give people DCV plusses for doing cool things
(if you dont want to be arbitrary about it encourage your players
to take dcv levels based on acrobatics (or a dex roll) and then
make them describe their actions)
B). Give them presence attacks
(Player "I run across the restarunt by jumping from tabletop to
tabletop while screaming and rapidfiring both of my 9mils.
GM "Thats good for +3d6 to a pressence attack)
Lost phases here and there among the mooks ('popcorn') does great
thing for the PC's survival rates.
C). Make use of cover, players will be alot more willing to make
dramatic dives for cover if they know that they will get DCV
plusses for being behind things, and extra def if they do get hit
To make them move more have their cover destroyed, after all
the average table can only take so much gunfire befor it stops
blocking bullets
D). Use all the "rude rules" Imparing, disabling, bleeding (the bleeding
rules that let you bleed to death from a 1 body wound) hit locations
all the fun ones. Knowing that damage hurts will encourage players to
do whatever it takes to not get hit. (Just don't use them during
fights between PC's and mooks, well not on the pc's anyway (And always
roll hit locations behind a screen, 'cause mooks never roll head shots
(unless the plot calls for it))).
mcallahan@home.com
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:06:04 PST
From: "Salmon,David" <David_Salmon@wb.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: Infra-Red Vision
Posting-date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 14:11:37 -0500
Priority: normal
Hop-count: 3
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
In regards to Infra-Red seeing "thru" things.
Does anyone remember the movie Robocop? Robo uses infra-red vision to
target the wacked out politician who was holding people hostage. He
saw the guys heat pattern/image/body-outline thru the wall, targeted
him and did a grab thru the wall. It seems to me that there is an
implied x-ray type ability to infra-red vision, depending of course on
wall thickness, variance of temperatures between the wall and the
target, etc. ( sounds like a GM call to me). Hope this clarified it for you.
...Dave S.
----------
From: owner-champ-l@omg.org
To: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Infra-Red Vision
Date: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 7:35AM
At 08:54 AM 12/2/97 -0200, Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria wrote:
> By default, does someone with powers like infrared vision, ultravision,
>etc. works at the same time with each other and normal sight or the
>character would have to specify which one he is using ?
By default they are all active at once, just as all other senses (sight,
hearing, touch, etc.) are active at once.
> Is Infra-Red and ultravision targeting senses by default ? Ultravision
>I think is because it says it is like normal sight, but what about the
>infrared?
I've generally treated IR Vision as Targeting.
> How do you usually consider the way infra-red works? Does it just see
>what we would normally see but seeing the temperature instead of the
>colors (light reflected) of the objects, or could it also see through cold
>things (walls example) and see the hot things in there (people example) ?
I've generally allowed the latter application only in specific
circumstances; among them that the things being seen through have to be of
the same temperature as the environment. (The situation hasn't come up
very often, though, so I may be a bad person to ask.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:36:44 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> > -Tim Roth's character vs Rob Roy at the end of Rob Roy
>
> I forgot about this one. I bought 'previously viewed' copy of this movie
> just for this fight scene.
Beautiful ending to that movie. The earlier fight scenes were
quite good as well, overall the best movie sword combat since Flynn's
heyday.
> > -Urotsokidoji -- wait, that wasn't a *fight* scene . . .
>
> In Urotsukidoji III, the fight between Amano Jyaku and Munihausen on top
> of 6 nuclear missles was memorable.:)
Amano Jyaku was decent in the fight throughout the city in the
first movie, but that isn't a series remarkable for its fights. At least,
not it's major feature.
> > -Snake Pliskin vs. the big gladiator in Escape from New York (he
> > was really fighting for his life in that one)
>
> Well, consider the gladiator was Ox Baker, from my home town of
> Indianapolis. He accidently killed two men in the wrestling ring as a pro
> wrestler, so you are right on here. REALLY fighting for his life:)
Yeah. In the director's release they're talking about the fight,
and Ox just didn't seem to have the point of restraint and "fake" combat.
That club with nail could have easily been the end of Kurt Russel.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:48:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
> > > -Urotsokidoji -- wait, that wasn't a *fight* scene . . .
> >
> > In Urotsukidoji III, the fight between Amano Jyaku and Munihausen on top
> > of 6 nuclear missles was memorable.:)
>
> Amano Jyaku was decent in the fight throughout the city in the
> first movie, but that isn't a series remarkable for its fights. At least,
> not it's major feature.
<cough cough> Ahem... that's one way to put it...
I will admit the fight between Amano and (uhmm) Sweetkakaju (sp?) had a
lot of cool stuff in it.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:51:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Bounced messages from hero-l list coming to me for some reason.
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Brian Wong wrote:
> I just recieved about 7 messages from October which I'd sent to the
> list.
> I know they got to the list originally as I recall reading them
> and having some of them discussed by others.
> My assumption is someone who dropped out some time back is finally bounc
> ing and for some reason I'm getting it all...
I'm getting the same thing. I have no idea where these are bouncing, from
since the 'Assumed To:' address doesn't show in the returned mail.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:37:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Test
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
This is a test.
I've just gotten 20+ bounced messages from numerous people. This is
getting out of hand.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:47:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Character experience
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, qts wrote:
> Would people agree that there is a general progression of experience
> reflected by cost in the various frameworks?
>
> With a multipower, generally a character can only use one or two powers
> at the same time.
>
> With an Elemental Control, a character can demonstrate their skill by
> performing all their tricks at the same time.
>
> With a Variable Power Pool, a character can demonstrate their mastery
> by doing *anything* [related to the SFX and guided by the Limitations,
> of course].
>
I disagree strongly that the frameworks represent a progression of
experience. They *might* represent such a progression, if it suited a
character's special effects, but the frameworks are more likely to be
employed to simulate effects which won't blend into one another with
experience.
A multipower, for example, might represent a limited power supply for a
number of gadgets. No matter how good you are with that laser pistol, it's
still going to cut into the energy for your anti-grav boots. Or it might
consist of ultra-slots of mutually exclusive powers or weapons - no amount
of experience is going to let you assume your flame form and your water
form at the same time. Speaking of ultra slots, consider their inspiration
- Ultra Boy of the Legion of Super Heroes. Pre-Zero Hour, he got quite
experienced but could still only use one power at a time; it was just the
way his powers worked.
Moreover, a VPP is more than the product of experience. There's a
difference between being very very good at using one's abilities and being
able to do *anything*.
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: Miq Millman <miq@teleport.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:29:07 -0800 (PST)
X-To: hero-l@october.com
Subject: Re: Bounced message
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: nmail.netgate.net ip 204.145.147.77
X-Smtp-Mail-From: miq@teleport.com
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
I think its pretty rude to be bouncing messages that are three weeks old
back to a mailing list, as well as rather obtuse. If you send it back, the
same message is going to start a loop of bounces for you. Please stop this
trashing of emailboxes, most of the 850+ recipients can't help and sending
admin stuff to a list is very bad form in any case.
--
__
Miq Millman miq@teleport.com
Tualatin, OR
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@cmi.csc.com>
Subject: Re: Test
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 15:36:03 CST
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> This is a test.
>
> I've just gotten 20+ bounced messages from numerous people. This is
> getting out of hand.
Actually, you're receiving them from one person; all of the list's
messages are bouncing from one site, where I assume someone's lost
their access or their job.
DonM.
--
=========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist, (217) 239-8365 =
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL dmckinne@cmi.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org (217) 469-9917 =
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:59:07 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Infra-Red Vision
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> In regards to Infra-Red seeing "thru" things.
Were talking about the Hero power, not necessarily the over-all
SFX.
> Does anyone remember the movie Robocop? Robo uses infra-red vision to
> target the wacked out politician who was holding people hostage. He
> saw the guys heat pattern/image/body-outline thru the wall, targeted
> him and did a grab thru the wall. It seems to me that there is an
> implied x-ray type ability to infra-red vision, depending of course on
> wall thickness, variance of temperatures between the wall and the
> target, etc. ( sounds like a GM call to me). Hope this clarified it for you.
Nope. You're mistaking a SFX in the movie for a power with a
similar name. That ability (seeing through a wall, heat related) is
actually exactly what N-Ray is meant to simulate. It just has a thermal
vision flavor.
-Tim Gilberg
X-Originating-IP: [206.88.2.1]
From: "Todd Hanson" <badtodd@hotmail.com>
Subject: All these damn bounce messages
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 16:09:59 CST
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
All of these messages are being bounced from the Red October mailing
list. It has started regurgitating old messages from the last month or
so.
Geoff, can you do something at the server level to stop messages from
october.com until they can get this fixed?
Does anybody have the email address of the guy in charge of october.com
(bob quinlan?) so we can let him know of the problem?
Todd
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:22:51 -0500 (EST)
X-Sender: nexus@uky.campus.mci.net
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: Test
Cc: champ-l@omg.org, hero-l@omg.org
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
I am still getting these bounced mail messages. The number is now 40+
I know violence doesn't solve all problems...
But it sure feels good!
Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:02:56 -0800 (PST)
From: hero-l@omg.org
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
Subject: None
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: yakuza.fc.net ip 207.170.70.19
X-Smtp-Mail-From: ima!netmgr+@yakuza.fc.net
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:10:43 -0800 (PST)
From: hero-l@omg.org
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
Subject: None
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: yakuza.fc.net ip 207.170.70.19
X-Smtp-Mail-From: ima!netmgr+@yakuza.fc.net
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:11:13 -0800 (PST)
From: hero-l@omg.org
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
Subject: None
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
X-Smtp-Ip-Host: yakuza.fc.net ip 207.170.70.19
X-Smtp-Mail-From: ima!netmgr+@yakuza.fc.net
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 15:14:04 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: All these damn bounce messages
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 04:09 PM 12/2/97 CST, Todd Hanson wrote:
>All of these messages are being bounced from the Red October mailing
>list. It has started regurgitating old messages from the last month or
>so.
>
>Geoff, can you do something at the server level to stop messages from
>october.com until they can get this fixed?
>
>Does anybody have the email address of the guy in charge of october.com
>(bob quinlan?) so we can let him know of the problem?
They don't look to me like they're being bounced from Red October;
rather, from someone at Austin Imformation Association (ima.infomail.com).
My guess is that someone who subscribed to the list either lost his address
there, or dropped it without telling the list manager.
If this is a case of someone being irresponsible, I hereby nominate that
individual for Deep Bat Guano Diver of the Year.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 02 Dec 1997 18:14:09 -0500
Lines: 32
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:
MS> I'd heard that Rathbone had to really down play his skill in orde to make
MS> Flynn look good on camera.
At least partially.
[...]
MS> So, Danny Kaye knew how to use a sword, or was he just that 'out of
MS> control'?
Kaye was out of control. That is what makes that scene so tense to a fan
of fight choreography.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
\ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 15:23:36 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Infra-Red Vision
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
At 03:59 PM 12/2/97 -0600, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
>> In regards to Infra-Red seeing "thru" things.
>
> Were talking about the Hero power, not necessarily the over-all
>SFX.
>
>> Does anyone remember the movie Robocop? Robo uses infra-red vision to
>> target the wacked out politician who was holding people hostage. He
>> saw the guys heat pattern/image/body-outline thru the wall, targeted
>> him and did a grab thru the wall. It seems to me that there is an
>> implied x-ray type ability to infra-red vision, depending of course on
>> wall thickness, variance of temperatures between the wall and the
>> target, etc. ( sounds like a GM call to me). Hope this clarified it for
you.
>
> Nope. You're mistaking a SFX in the movie for a power with a
>similar name. That ability (seeing through a wall, heat related) is
>actually exactly what N-Ray is meant to simulate. It just has a thermal
>vision flavor.
Just for the record, I'm with Tim on this one.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 15:33:25 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Test
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
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At 05:22 PM 12/2/97 -0500, Kim Foster wrote:
>I am still getting these bounced mail messages. The number is now 40+
Where I'm at, it exceeds 300, and it's still growing. It took nearly an
hour for me to download it all at 9600 baud. (Hence my proposal re: the
person responsible in another post.)
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 18:45:14 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Reduced END Movement & NCM
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Mark Lemming wrote:
>Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>> I would let the Player buy this, and it would mean that he only
>> gets the 1/2 END cost at speeds up to his base x2 NCM. If he goes
>> faster, he burns full END.
>
>Problem. You do not spend additional END for Non-Combat Movement.
>I'd say the page number, but the BBB is not at my work.
>
No, *normally* you don't. But if you only bought 1/2 END on your inches of
Flight, I'd rule that you would burn *normal* END costs at NC speeds.
>> I also let Players buy differing END costs on parts of a Power.
>> Ex: EBs that are exponentially difficult (higher END cost for
>> additional dice).
>
>Perfectly OK, but a different topic.
>
Thank you, I thought it was alright, too. But it *is* related, as (with
this ruling) you could even take Increased END *just* on NCM, and burn
extra END at NC speeds... See? It all relates! (Although I didn't see it
myself, until just now.)
- Jerry
Catching up on 1 1/2 weeks of e-mail...
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From: NetMgr+@ima.infomail.com (NetMgr+)
Date: 02 Dec 97 17:47:30 -0600
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Subject: Bounced message
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Please note that the system that this message was addressed to no
longer exists, or is not a Member of the IMA Gateway system, and
that the below message is undeliverable. So it is being deleted.
It would be a good idea to confirm that you are using the correct address.
If this is a valid system, but not a valid Member of the IMA, they can
contact me at the address below about joining our gateway.
Also, if this is a mailing list, please remove the intended recipient
from all of your configs and listings. The address of the intended
recipient is listed right after the "Apparently-to:" line towards the
top of the text below.
Note: If the original message WAS part of a mailing list, and you're
unable to remove this person from the listing, please forward a copy of
this message to the list keeper (coordinator) for removal.
Thanks,
John McAlpin - IMA Gatekeeper
john.mcalpin@1202.ima.infomail.com
FidoNet 1:382/1202
(NONODE.TXT)
Original message:
--
Date: Tue Dec 02 '97, 12:29:12
Attr: pvt fwd kil
From: NetMgr+, (1:382/87.0)
To : hero-l, (1:382/111.0)
Subj: Bounced message
--
From: NetMgr+@ima.infomail.com (NetMgr+)
@X-To: hero-l@october.com
@Subject: Bounced message
@Message-Id: <1db_9712021255@ima.infomail.com>
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Please note that the system that this message was addressed to no
longer exists, or is not a Member of the IMA Gateway system, and
that the below message is undeliverable. So it is being deleted.
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(NONODE.TXT)
Original message:
--
Date: Fri Nov 28 '97, 00:44:10
Attr: pvt fwd kil
From: Michael Adams, (1:382/87.0)
To : hero-l, (1:382/111.0)
Subj: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
--
From: Michael.Adams@october.com (Michael Adams)
@Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
@Message-Id: <cd7_9711272300@october.com>
@X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
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@To: champ-l@omg.org
Yes, 250 yards with a even brand new Army Colt M1911A1 is rediculous. Most
people can not hit at 25 yards let alone what some people can hit at 50 yards
(people who practice can hit possibly 50 yards, and generally that is at a
pistol match. With no one shooting at you and like.
But in the real world the .45 is brobably been around for a while and the sites
have not been zeroed, the bore/barrel is worn down some, the ammo is possibly
old (been in storage for a while), you have just run 100+ yards zigzag, people
are shooting at you, you are getting orders or giving them (45s normally were
officers/NCO weapons, bombs blowing up around you, chances of mines. Maybe even
wearing a protective mask, and you want me to hit more than 25 yards with it, I
doubt it.
Opps, forgot,you might also be in the prone position (laying down), out of
wind. Major part of shooting is breath control.
Mike Adams
PS: I have shot M60, M16, 9mm competatively, as well as shot M60, M16, M249
(SAW) in mock combat and I am amazed I hit anything, even with the weapon zerod
(mock combat that is).
---
--
| Fidonet: NetMgr+ 1:382/86
|Internet: NetMgr+@ima.infomail.com
|
|Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly their own.
---
--
| Fidonet: NetMgr+ 1:382/86
|Internet: NetMgr+@ima.infomail.com
|
|Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly their own.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Reduced END Movement & NCM
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
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Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 02 Dec 1997 19:04:12 -0500
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To: champ-l@omg.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "JD" == Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu> writes:
JD> No, *normally* you don't. But if you only bought 1/2 END on your
JD> inches of Flight, I'd rule that you would burn *normal* END costs at NC
JD> speeds.
Then by logical extension, if you buy 0 END cost on your movement power,
because it is effortless for whatever reason, it would still require the
normal END cost for all-out movement.
I can understand paying END if one pushes such a power, but not for all-out
movement multiples.
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--
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\
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: "VANSICKLE, James" <jvansickle@shl.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:25:25 -0600
X-To: "'Multiple recipients of Hero'" <hero-l@october.com>
Subject: RE: Bounced message
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
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Is there anyone monitoring the server that could block this? This
message has hit the point of irritating.
>----------
>From: NetMgr+[SMTP:NetMgr+@ima.infomail.com]
>Reply To: Multiple recipients of Hero
>Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 6:23 PM
>To: champ-l@omg.org
>Subject: Bounced message
>
>
>
>Please note that the system that this message was addressed to no
>longer exists, or is not a Member of the IMA Gateway system, and
>that the below message is undeliverable. So it is being deleted.
>
>It would be a good idea to confirm that you are using the correct address.
>
>If this is a valid system, but not a valid Member of the IMA, they can
>contact me at the address below about joining our gateway.
>
>Also, if this is a mailing list, please remove the intended recipient
>from all of your configs and listings. The address of the intended
>recipient is listed right after the "Apparently-to:" line towards the
>top of the text below.
>
>Note: If the original message WAS part of a mailing list, and you're
>unable to remove this person from the listing, please forward a copy of
>this message to the list keeper (coordinator) for removal.
>
>Thanks,
> John McAlpin - IMA Gatekeeper
> john.mcalpin@1202.ima.infomail.com
> FidoNet 1:382/1202
>
>(NONODE.TXT)
>Original message:
>
>--
>Date: Sat Nov 22 '97, 12:53:06
>Attr: pvt fwd kil
>From: Opal, (1:382/87.0)
>To : hero-l, (1:382/111.0)
>Subj: Re: fantasy hero campaig
>--
>From: Opal@october.com (Opal)
>@Subject: Re: fantasy hero campaig
>@Message-Id: <78b_9711221121@october.com>
>@X-Ftn-To: herolist@october.com
>@Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
>@Precedence: bulk
>@Organization: Fidonet: Red October Alpha * Hero Roleplaying * 408-629-4695 *
>@Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
>@Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
>@To: champ-l@omg.org
>
>
>
> h > From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
> h >
> h > > Defenses on the other hand should be *low* and kept that way. Don't
> h > > let wizards have force fields. Keep the armor you design relatively
> h > > low-def (6 is reasonable, 8 DEF plate should be really encumbering,
> h >
> h > DEF 6 represent 'average' mail armor, what virtually *everyone* who
> h > afford it wore during most of the middle ages. The thickest (or
> h > heaviest armor) is full plate, which is DEF 8 (or *maybe* 9). Full pla
> h > *isn't* all that encumbering. A well made suit fits just was well as a
> h >
>
>Oh yes, I know that. (I started playing D&D 17 years ago, I have
>heard that from SCA'ers sooooo many times!) And, I'm sorry I didn't
>mention that I was speaking from a sort of heroic fantasy (where
>you don't want everyone armored up from head to toe, it's just
>not that dashing - unless you're going for the sort of fairy
>tale knight-in-shining-armour routine (or you really liked the
>move Excalibur) in which case you wouldn't want armor to be
>encumbering at all) and game-balance perspective. I want players
>to have a good reason to choose among the different types of
>armor, not just the usual get the highest DEF and buy 'manuevering
>in armor' DCV levels to cancel the penalty thing. I understand
>that its unrealistic, but I guess I just don't like realism all
>that much (or I'd be playing GURPS by Steve 'reality check' Jackson).
>
> h > Note that Force Walls stop all Stun, which makes them much more
> h > effective
> h > than standard Armor. Force Fields might work better for certain spell
> h > effects.
>
>If you're trying to keep DEF low, it's conventient to use FW instead
>of FF. FF is very cheap and it can be hard to explain to the character
>why he can't have a 5 pt spell to defend himslef. FW keep the costs
>(Apts, anyway), more in line, and when DEF is kept low, will be penetrated
>much more often. Also they're less convenient the FF - they limit what
>you can do when hiding behind them.
>
>For instance, if I set a max resistant DEF of 10, some of the warriors
>will go to the trouble of buying Independent magickal armor with that
>def, some will take Plate, inspite of the small standard Encumbrance
>penalty, and some will prefer slightly lighter armor. But, all the
>wizards will buy a 10 DEF Force Field because it is sooo cheap - and
>all the powergamers will have 10/10 FF with 0 END & Persistant with
>lengthy start-up rituals (for a high limitation) and Dificult to
>Dispel.
>
>Of course, that's just my experience, I know some people have players
>with more restraint. (heck, I don't have that much restraint, I
>like playing wizards, I want my wizard character to live!) :) :)
>
>___
> * OFFLINE 1.58
>
>
>---
> --
> | Fidonet: NetMgr+ 1:382/86
> |Internet: NetMgr+@ima.infomail.com
> |
> |Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly their own.
>
>
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:33:24 -0500 (EST)
cc: hero-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Re: Test
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
my mailbox is overfull as well.
Is it just my messages?
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:37:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: Infra-Red Vision
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
In a message dated 12/2/97 6:42:06 PM, bob.greenwade@klock.com wrote:
>> Nope. You're mistaking a SFX in the movie for a power with a
>>>actually exactly what N-Ray is meant to simulate. It just has a thermal
>>vision flavor.
> Just for the record, I'm with Tim on this one.
I agree. Back in the 80's when Predator came out,
did anyone else's (AD&D or HERO) campaign go through that:
"Well now we know how Infravision works & looks" phase?
--
Elliott
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:18:13 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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X-UID: 68
On Tuesday, December 02, 1997 3:50 AM, Rick Holding wrote:
>-- The first fight between the Spaniad and Weslie in the Princess
Bride.
>
> The fight starting with the Spaniad against the guards followed by
the
>chase, again the Princess Bride.
>
> Blind Fury.
>
> Lady Hawk also comes to mind.
There were some good ones in there.
> The first and third Highlander movies. (The second was a waste of
time)
The _third_ Highlander movie? Interesting. You are the first person
I've talked to who didn't consider that to be absolutely awful.
Filksinger
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 21:46:26 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Reduced END Movement & NCM
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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X-UID: 67
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>>>>>> "JD" == Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu> writes:
>JD> No, *normally* you don't. But if you only bought 1/2 END on your
>JD> inches of Flight, I'd rule that you would burn *normal* END costs at NC
>JD> speeds.
>
>Then by logical extension, if you buy 0 END cost on your movement power,
>because it is effortless for whatever reason, it would still require the
>normal END cost for all-out movement.
>
>I can understand paying END if one pushes such a power, but not for all-out
>movement multiples.
>
No, you'd only have to pay this normal END if you *didn't* buy it for the
NCM. The normal x2 NCM is free...
If there's a problem with my reasoning, please point it out... I don't
remember any examples of not paying for Reduced END on NCM.
- Jerry
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:49:12 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert A. Coffin" <rac@MUW.Edu>
Subject: Help?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
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X-UID: 70
A while back on the net a friend of mine assures me he found a rather long
article about "professional" wrestling for Champions. I have dug and dug
and have found almost nothing. I am looking for one of the players who,
after watching 4 hours of WCW wrestling, had a brainstorm and wants to
play a pro wrestler type character...any help would be great.
Robyn
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 20:20:05 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Just some more confusion.
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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"qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> "champ-l@omg.org" wrote:
> > Tiki has Telekenesis. He can use it to fly around (Flight),
> >and to carry his friends along with him.
> > Tiki should buy Flight UAO for his friends. What's the limit
> >Tink could carry while flying?
>
> Tiki should buy Flight Usable BY Others.
I disagree. Tiki is the one who is in control. Flight usable by
others gives control of the flight to the others. Tiki is carrying them
with TK. He should buy AoE or Explosion on his TK to represent him
carrying them with perhaps a selective advantage if he has fine control.
>
> > His STR or his TK's STR? Could
> >TK 'carry' and object along with him using his TK while flying?
> > If Tiki picked up an object (like a log), and wanted it
> >to accelerate towards something, how fast would it travel and how
> >much damage would it do?
> > Mechanically, how would TK_ based on EGo, Invisible power
> >effects (except for mental) effect a target? Would it do BODY?
> >What defense wouuld be applied against it? Would STR be rolled to break
> >out of this particular type of TK's grab?
>
> You seem to be going about this the wrong way: think of all the effects
> Tiki can do (Flight, TK, EB vs PD, RKA [when Tiki picks up a nasty
> pointy bit of metal], etc) and put them in a framework, either a
> Multipower or Elemental Control.
Certainly, an elemental control would be the best way. This would
allow Tiki to both fly and carry things at the same time. Other powers
that could be considered would be force wall, missile de/reflection and
explosive energy blast with double knockback and zero range.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 20:24:20 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Dream Powers
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
X-Status:
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X-UID: 13
Nez Master wrote:
>
> At 08:46 PM 11/30/97 -0500, you wrote:
> > How would you simulate a character who could 'dream walk' --
> >enter another character's mind through their dreams.
> >
> Telepathy, Mental Illusions, Mind Link, and Mind Scan can be combined to
> create this effect depdning on how much control you want over the dreams.
> Add "target must be asleep" as a -1 limitation. (at least).
>
> 8 d6 Mind Link (target must be asleep -1) (does not reveal location/only
> for targetting -1/4) 17
What is an 8d6 mindlink? I wasn't aware that could buy a number of
dice of mindlink.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 23:31:40 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Marvel Conversions: Doctor Doom
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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Filksinger wrote:
>On Thursday, November 20, 1997 11:52 AM, Sam Bell wrote:
><snip>
>> 25 Distinctive Features: Either mask or horribly scarred face. Not
>concealable,
>> Extreme reaction
><snip>
>>His 10 Com is with the mask on. Without the mask, it is considerably
>lower.
>
>
>I've seen Doom's face. His "horribly scarred face" has a single scar
>two inches long on one cheek. He's just psychotic about it.
>
Didn't realize you and Vic were friends...
But, regardless, I haven't seen his face, but current comic mags show close
ups of his eyes continuously, and they have burn scars around them,
reminiscent of Baron Zemo.
- Jerry
Who is 1 1/2 weeks behind on his e-mail...
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 23:40:37 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Reduced END Movement & NCM
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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Donald Tsang wrote:
>My understanding is, you never have to pay for Reduced END on things that
>don't cost END, including NCM, Fine Manipulation for TK, etc.
>
Well, that *is* one interpretation... I could go either way, really. I
dislike my DarkForce PC my friend has paying END for Fine Manipulation, so
I have to write it in on the Heromaker sheet. <shrugs>
As far as 1/2 or 0 END on NCM... I don't think it's come up for a PC in my
game yet. But what I said sounded reasonable... of course, what *you*
said sounded reasonable.
So, you would put:
Flight: 10", 0 END 30pt
+x2 NCM +5pt
Is that right? (The numbers might be off, I lent out my BBB...)
- Jerry
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:16:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: Odd abilities.
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In a message dated 12/2/97 4:21:59 PM, susano@access.digex.net wrote:
>The ability to utterly and totally financially ruin someone within
>> a period of days with one phone call.
>Dunno, but I want that power too.
We've done it. had a villain called the accountant.
4d6 Wealth Drain.
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 00:21:38 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Champions Campaign Themes
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At 06:40 AM 11/24/97 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 07:44 AM 11/25/97 -500, Vance Scott wrote:
>>Campaign Themes
>>
<snippage>
> There are two additions that I can think of.
>
>Professionals - These are the classic "Heroes For Hire" type who do their
>work for a price. They work within the law, and might sometimes capture
>criminals just to be good citizens, but they normally work as private
>investigators, security guards, or in similar functions.
>
>Corporate Heroes - These are similar to the Professionals, except that they
>work for a corporation and have the duty of protecting that corporation's
>interests. How often those interests coincide with the public welfare
>depends, of course, on the corporation.
>
Well <lol> both of these are "Heroes for Hire." The first is the original
concept, and the second is as they are, currently, sorta. They work for
charity, sponsored by Oracle, Inc. But these are both fine additions to
the list.
- Jerry
Who is still 1 1/2 weeks behind on e-mail...
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:08:55 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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Oops, I forgot one of my favorite movie fights -- I'd probably put
it in my top 5:
"Final" fight between Optimus Prime and Megatron in Transformers:
The Movie. Everything is on the line, and these two *really* go at it.
The combat leading up to this fight is good as well -- transformers
actually getting affected like they should from those high powered
attacks.
These two also had some memorable combats in the series.
Heck, speaking of childhood cartoon combats -- I'll nominate one
for worst of all time. In GI Joe the Cartoon, Cobra had a pair of twins
who felt when the other was hit. (I don't remeber their names). At one
point, they fight each other by punching themselves. Utterly inane.
-Tim Gilberg
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 01:43:27 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
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Michael Nunn wrote:
>Getting back to the original scene. We didn't have a lot of time to prepare
>for each shot, only the first one. After the first shot we had 1 minute to
>empty a 30 round clip. There was also a great deal of stress... Not combat
>level stress, but stress none the less.
>
Very much so, actually. How about knowing that you could wash out just for
this reason, and "ruin" your future career... pretty harrowing.
>I can also tell you this, targets don't shoot back. The enemy does, which
>would you be tring harder to hit?
>
True, but you could (somehow) sacrifice your DCV in NonCombat situations
for bonuses to hit... i think you're already doing that w/ Brace or Set
(can't remember which) already.
- Jerry
Who is 1 1/2 weeks behind on e-mail...
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 00:44:57 -0600
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: All these damn bounce messages
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Bob Greenwade wrote:
They don't look to me like they're being bounced from Red October;
> rather, from someone at Austin Imformation Association (ima.infomail.com).
> My guess is that someone who subscribed to the list either lost his address
> there, or dropped it without telling the list manager.
On every one of the messages, the 'reply-to' field is set to
'hero-l@october.com (multiple recipients of Hero)'
This still looks like Red October to me.
Todd
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:46:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
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>
> A while back on the net a friend of mine assures me he found a rather long
> article about "professional" wrestling for Champions. I have dug and dug
> and have found almost nothing. I am looking for one of the players who,
> after watching 4 hours of WCW wrestling, had a brainstorm and wants to
> play a pro wrestler type character...any help would be great.
I keep threatening to write something up on this. Maybe once my classes
are over next week I finally will and post it on the WEB.
The article is out there someplace, but I forget where. My bookmark's
went poof when my HD crashed a while ago.
Basically, required PS: Pro Wrestler (With appropriate KS's for different
styles of pro wrestling, if you are of the school that such things are
needed. I can count about 7 styles that are distinct off the top of my
head).
Optional Skills would include
Acting (For simulating being hurt, as well as interviews)
Oratory (For working the crowd during an interview)
Breakfall
Acrobatics (For those high flyers)
Concealment (For hiding those foreign, errr, international objects:)
Slight of Hand (To use those objects without getting caught)
I'm sure there more I'm forgetting off hand.
For martial arts, standard manuvers would be:
Basic Strike (Can simulate punches, stomps, headbutts, ect)
Running Strike (Clothesline, Leg Lariot, Rolling Kick)
Grab (Headlock, Armbar, Bearhug, ect)
Crush (Suplexs, Power Bombs, Piledrivers)
Choke Hold (Sleeper)
Throw (Armdrag, Dragonscrew Legwhip, Droptoe Hold)
Dodge and Block can be added, but they are rarely used. Block can also be
used to simulate the 'No Sell', but I've never liked this way.
Other powers to add could be
Flash v. Sight (Eye rake, maybe with a small NND for pain)
Aid to a physical stat (Hulking Up)
Additional PD with one phase charges (No Sell)
Additional HTH damage (International objects, maybe with surprise if
slight of hand roll beats opponant's perception)
TokyoMark
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:49:11 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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-- The first fight between the Spaniad and Weslie in the Princess Bride.
The fight starting with the Spaniad against the guards followed by the
chase, again the Princess Bride.
Blind Fury.
Lady Hawk also comes to mind.
The first and third Highlander movies. (The second was a waste of time)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:49:11 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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-- The first fight between the Spaniad and Weslie in the Princess Bride.
The fight starting with the Spaniad against the guards followed by the
chase, again the Princess Bride.
Blind Fury.
Lady Hawk also comes to mind.
The first and third Highlander movies. (The second was a waste of time)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 23:00:22 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question
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The first fight between the Spaniad and Weslie in the Princess Bride.
The fight starting with the Spaniad against the guards followed by the
chase, again the Princess Bride.
Blind Fury.
Lady Hawk also comes to mind.
The first and third Highlander movies. (The second was a waste of time)
Arnie vs the Predator.
And numerous more that are bouncing around in my head but can't put names
to.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 02:02:37 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Bio-genetic powers
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ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>> How do you simulate the power/effect of acidic blood? Think
>>ALIEN.
> HKA with Damage Shield just dosen't do this justice. Blood is drawn
>when BODY is taken. However, in the movie ALIENS the characters were a
>couple of yards away at certain points and they were still caught in the
>acidic gore's path. Also, since the character I'm designing this for is
>sentient, he can cut himself and 'bleed' though locks, doors, etc.
>Also, this would act as a flaw, because any time the character would 'bleed'
>(as per the optional rules), there would be acidic drips.
Well, (slight spoiler), in the new Alien movie (Alienseses), they did just
this, intentionally used the blood... What you could do is think of all
the ways that it could be used, and write a MultiPower, or (more likely)
Elemental Control around it... including the Damage Shield, a Continuous
BODY Drain v. Inanimates... <shrugs> Other stuff you want to be able to do
with it.
>
> Hoe much of a Physical Limitation would Deconstruct be? ...and if
>you actually 'lost' a limb like this, could you assume it could be 'replaced'
>(like a Foci)?
>
If he could get them back like Foci, it would be less limiting...
> ...as for the 'calorie' power, I was thinking a Multipower pool
>based off of an END reserve for the fat fuled heat powers. The END reserve
>could only be 'replenished' by gaining weight. The problem is how to
simulate
>'weight gain' (which is most likely a Physical Limitation) that is
temporary...
>and how to gain the weight back. (Yeah... How would you construct a
Temporary
>Phys Lim? Side Effects = Physical Limitation, Distincitive Features, minuses
>to running, and for the addition PD Only works while fat [or Linked to END
>reserve]????
>
Isn't there a hero in DC's Sovereign Seven comic that does this? In the
two issues I read (at the comic shop), he used a lot of energy, and gained
it back *really* quick... a couple of large platters of burgers.
And we had the Overweight/Fat/Morbidly Obese thread awhile back... Phys
Lim, or Density Increase, or Growth (two-dimensional, no height).
Wouldn't a "temporary" Phys Lim just have a lower occurance? <nods> Yeah,
that's it, I think.
- Jerry
Who is 1 1/2 weeks behind on e-mail
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 01:05:31 -0600
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: Help?
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Robert A. Coffin wrote:
> A while back on the net a friend of mine assures me he found a rather long
> article about "professional" wrestling for Champions. I have dug and dug
> and have found almost nothing. I am looking for one of the players who,
> after watching 4 hours of WCW wrestling, had a brainstorm and wants to
> play a pro wrestler type character...any help would be great.
Your best bet is to not get overly complicated. Have him take the basic
moves, and he can call them whatever he likes. He can even call the same move
more than one thing - the name is basically special effect. Note that many of
the wrestling moves SHOULD have the 'you fall' element as part of them. I
would let the player SFX that part - he 'falls' as part of the move, but hops
right back up before someone can take advantage of his prone position.
a few examples I've used:
martial strike: headbutt, punch or forearm
martial throw: armdrag, hurricarana (frankensteiner), any number of
suplexes
martial crush: bearhug, sharpshooter, boston crab
passing strike: clothesline, drop kick
nerve strike: low shot, throat shot, eye gouge
offensive strike: superkick, dropkick, powerbomb
leg sweep: body slam (or any other maneuver that automatically
takes the opponent off his feet)
You can always let him build his OWN maneuvers, but I found it easier just to
use the maneuvers in the book and rename them to fit.
Todd
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 02:06:30 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?
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Rick Holding wrote:
> As far as throwing a baseball to a base (mentioned in another
>post), the THROWER is aiming for a hex, the hex that the catcher is
>standing in. This makes it so much easier to catch a ball, particully as
>the catcher standing behind the home plate knows fairly well where the
>ball is suppost to be aimed at. All he has to do is get the glove in the
>line of flight. The batter is set and braced and also knows to a lesser
>extent where the ball is going to be passing through. Not being
>American, and hence not having much chance playing the game, it still
>seems relatively easier to bunt, placing the bat in the line of flight
>before the ball is thrown and adjusting up and down. This doesn't seem
>to require to high of an OCV to do. A few more skill levels to get a
>swing bat at the same place as the ball. (Hmmm, that went a bit longer
>than expected. Sorry)
>
If you make it easier on the pitcher, saying he's aiming at the hex, it is
then harder on the catcher, because he *won't* know where the ball is
going. And it is obvious that the pitcher has a *much* tighter control
than that... if he just aims at (actually through) the hex, he'll get a
"ball" more often than a "strike."
And if a batter lines up for a bunt *before* the pitch, the pitcher's gonna
throw a "ball," right? (Maybe this is beyond your experience... hey, it
may be beyond mine!)
The one suggestion of Missle Reflection might be okay, actually...
requiring an OIF of opportunity for the batter...
- Jerry
Who is 1 1/2 weeks behind on e-mail...
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:15:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CHAR: KALUU
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Subject: HERO: KALUU
From: egyptoid@aol.com (Egyptoid)
Date: 30 Nov 1997
07:38:47 GMT
KALUU (compadre of DR STRANGE, Marvel Comix)
STR 17 DF: Wizard Garb & Spiky Hair (concealable)
DEX 18 Public ID (super public among cognoscenti)
CON 16 DF: Tibetan Oriental
BODY 11 Psych: Cold, Pragmatic ("Kinda
Evil")
INT 18 Psych: Enjoys comforts &
wealth
EGO 28 Psych: Domineering
PRE 22 Hunted: various neutral & good
beings, from various dimensions
COM 9
PD 9
ED 9
SPD 4
REC 13
END 50
STUN 50
Images: (mirror images)
Sight,
Sound, Smell, Touch, Mental, -8 to PER rolls, Skill Roll req.
x5 to
Radius, Zero End, Only Images of Self (up to 8 at a time).
Shape-Shift:
Any living Shape, Zero End.
Power Effects Invisible to Magical
Senses.
+Density Increase, Shrinking, Growth: Up to 1 Level of Each,
Only
for use (linked) (if needed by shape-shift above), Zero End.
Power
Effects Invisible to Magical Senses.
Force-Field: Zero End.
13/13
Force-Wall: 18/18, Half-End
Immortality:
(Regeneration-Type)
Life-Support: No Aging
Eidetic Memory:
photographic
Spells Multi-Power:
a) Energy Blast, 14d6
b) Energy
Blast, Area Effect Hex 12d6
c) Telepathy, Penetrating, 13d6
d)
Entangle BOECV, 8d6
e) Killing Attack, Explosion, Double Knockback, 4d6
f) Teleport, Area Effect, Transdimensional, Triggered,
20",
x1024 NCV, UAO, UBO
g) Mind-Link, Transdimensional, Any Distance, x8
minds
h) Aid, To Magical Powers, BOECV, Linked to Mind-Link, 8d6
i)
Change Environment, Variable
j) Teleport, Only in Rain/Storm: Side
Effect: CE dissipates said rain/storm
20", x15625 NCV
k) Summon
Undead or Spirits
l) Other Adjustment Powers as GM sees fits
(Var.SFX)
Var.Pow.Pool: Magic Knowledge
40 points, Spell Books, Skill
Roll, Variable SFX, GEstures, Incantations
Languages: Tibetan, Chinese,
Egyptian, English, Latin
AK: World 12-
AK: Asia 14-
AK: Tibet 16-
AK: the
Dimensions 17-
KS: Magic: Chaos, Darkhold, Nature, Necromantic, Black,
Vishanti, Others
22- 13- 14- 15- 19-
12- 15-
PS: Financier
SC: Philosophy
Skills: Tactics,
Administration, Cramming, Agriculture, Business,
Riding, Deduction,
Persuasion
Well-Connected: (mostly arcane)
Contacts: Dr.Strange, Clea, the
Ancient One, Lords of Chaos, vampires, demons,
his Wall Street
Broker, Lords of Sorcery, various Mystics & Wizards
Wealth: 10
Martial Arts:
Jiu Jutsu
Block +2 OCV +2 DCV Abort
Disarm -1 OCV +1 DCV 30
STR Disarm
Dodge +0 OCV +5 DCV Abort
Legsweep +2 OCV -1 DCV
5d6 Strike, Target Falls
Punch/Snap Kick +0 OCV +2 DCV 6d6 Strike
Side/Spin Kick -2 OCV +1 DCV 8d6 Strike
=====
my conversion of Kaluu,
from OHOTMU volume 7
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:15:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: EARTH FORCE - WIND WALKER
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WIND-WALKER (Earth Force
1)
14 STR 10 x1 DF: Beautiful Blonde (concealable)
22 DEX 10 x3 DF: Glowing Mark of Aton, Left Palm (concealable)
19/10 CON 10 x2 Hunted: Seth
11 BODY 10 x2 Watched: Egyptian Gods
10 INT 10 x1 Watched: Asgardian Gods
20 EGO 10 x2 Psych: Emotional
13 PRE 10 x1 Psych: Overconfident
18 COM 10 x.5 Psych: Protective of Normals
9 PD S5 x1 Psych: Tends not to use powers full force unless
pushed
9 ED C5 x1 Secret ID: Pamela Shaw
6/3 SPD 1D10 x10
13 REC S5C5 x2
58 END Cx2 x.5
39 STUN BS2C2 x1
DemiGoddess of the Air Multi-Power: (100)
m) Change Environ: x16 Radius, Variable Env., Air Effects Only, x5 Max
Range
m) Energy Blast, Wind Based: 11 Dice, x2 Knock-back
m) HKA, Area Effect Radius, x2 Knock-back, 2+1d6 (Tornado)
m) Energy Blast, versus PD, 13d6, variable SFX, OIF (Hurl Object w/Air)
m) Flight, 35" x4 NCV
m) TK, air based, 60 STR
m) Force Wall, 22 PD, 10 ED, 16" wide, Opaque to Hearing & Sound
m) Force Field, 35 PD, 15 ED
(All except Change Env. Only In Hero ID)
Endurance Reserve: 250 End, 5 Rec, Only for Multi-Power
CON: 19, In Hero ID Only
SPD: 3, In Hero ID Only
Instant Change, regular clothes to Hero ID only
Luck: 2 dice
Armor, 3PD, 3ED, Hero ID Only
PS: Home-maker & Mother
AK: New York
Contacts: Egyptian Gods, Thor, Avengers, rest of Earth Force
Favors: Bes, Aton, Thor
Skill Levels Flight: 6
Skill Levels Multi-Power Attacks: 3
Everyperson Skills, AK's, & familiarities
=============================================================================
Not much background here, she lived normally in New York, and Seth gave
her powers in attempting to use her as a pawn versus Thor & his friends.
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:16:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CHAR: SPHINX
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SPHINX (Marvel Write-Up from OHOTMU 6)
Normal Size Grown Size Disadvantages:
43 STR 10 x1 68 STR Psych: Conqueror
18 DEX 10 x3 18 DEX Age: More of a Mental Disad
41 CON 10 x2 45 CON DF: Large Glowing Egyptoid
16 BODY 10 x2 19 BODY Dep: Loses immortality w/out
Stone
28 INT 10 x1 28 INT Hunteds: various
39 EGO 10 x2 39 EGO Phys.Lim: Usually Huge
24 PRE 10 x1 49 PRE Secret ID: True Name Hidden
11 COM 10 x.5 8 COM
16 PD S5 x1 19 PD
16 ED C5 x1 19 ED
4 SPD 1D10 x10 4 SPD
21 REC S5C5 x2 29 REC
90 END Cx2 x.5 99 END
76 STUN BS2C2 x1 79 STUN
Ka Magic Multi-Power:
m) 10d6 Energy Blast (Light)
m) 12d6 Energy Blast (Heat)
m) 35 STR Telekinesis (Force-Beam)
m) 12d6 Telepathy
m) Flight, 24", x4 NCV
Ka Energy Multi-Power:
m) Shrinking: 15, Half-End, returns self to normal human size.
m) Absorption: 6d6 from Energy Attacks
m) Transfer: 4d6 from beings or objects
(these 2 adjustments powers have a 1-minute fade rate, and +44 to maximum,
and they put points into END, INT, EGO, and the Ka MP above)
Ka Growth, 15, Always On, Zero End, Persistent.
( stats figured in above right)
Ka Aid: 3d6 to some stats, only when Grown, Always On, Zero End, Persistent.
(figured in above right)
Life Support: Breathe, Eat, Rad, Vacuum, Pressure, Disease, Aging
Immortality: Summon Self Type, Trigger, 1x per 5 years
Armor: 13PD/13ED
Wizard Powers: 23 pnt VPP, minor tricks (Eg: Hypnotism, Sticks to Snakes)
Base: Flying Pyramid: call it a 150 point vehicle
Wealth: 10
Skills: Scientist, Scholar, Linguist, Jack-o-Trades, Traveler (5000 years
old!)
KS:Chemistry, KS:Physics, KS:Alchemy, KS:Electronics, KS:Mechanics,
KS: Ancient History, KS: Bible, KS: Egyptian Religion, AK: Middle East
KS: Computers, KS: Alien Tech, KS: Magic(Hekau), KS: Occult, KS: Medicine
KS: Surgery, KS Biology, KS: Zoology, PS: Inventor, KS: Genetics,
PS: Doctor, PS: Wizard, PS: Archaeologist, PS: Programmer, PS: Engineer
Lang: Egyptian, Lang: Arabic, Lang: English, Lang: French, Lang: Latin
Contact: Sayge, aka the prophet Veritas
All powers labeled "Ka" above derive from his mystic forehead gem,
which conceivably conceivably can be ripped away non-combat. (IIF)
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Sphinx comes across as a pretty screwed up mental case. He's 5000+ years
old, and he spent 1000 of those years as a wizard in Egypt, 1000 more
seeking a way to commit suicide, 1000 more seeking someone who might
know how to kill him, then he tinkered in various skills for 1000 years,
then he sought a way to get rid of the stone, lately he was looking
for more power. Go figure. He's fought Nova, Galactus, Fantastic Four.
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:16:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HERO: DREAMQUEEN
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poetry in motion
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From: elliott@tmscorp.com (Elliott Davis)
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Date: 97-12-02 15:46:36 EST
DREAMQUEEN
STR 38 DISADS:
DEX 21 # DF: Demonic Vamp, Green Hair, White Skin (concealable)
CON 55 # DF: scans as a demonic succubus to magic
INT 23 # or psionics (not concealable, small group)
EGO 40 # Accidental Change: After becoming pregnant, she
spontaneously
PRE 20(+) # combusts and a new DQ arises from the ashes with her
COM 15 # memories but new body & personality. (rare)
BODY 26 # Psych: Cruel & Bored, enjoys lies & trickery
PD 29
ED 29 +3 Levels with Magic Powers
SPD 6 +1 Level with HtH Combat
REC 34
END 145
STUN 95
Presence is +25 in Live World, +15 at night
Clairvoyance: OIF reflective or crystal surface, Sight, Sound, Past, Mental,
Transdimensional, Other Dimensions, x3165 range.
Life support: Immortal
Life Support: Eat, Sleep, Only if able to feed off emotional energy
Invisibility: All Sense Groups, No Fringe, Use Ego > 20 & Mental Defense as
a bonus to PER rolls to see her.
Variable Power Pool: 40 points, Demonic Magic or Psionics, Gestures &
Incantations, Limited Powers, Transdimensional
Aid: to END, STUN & Multipower: 8 Dice, also affects the maximum gain from
Aid,
but only when people without mental defense are within a mile of her. Power
only works in the Presence of strong emotions, such as people having
nightmares
Transdimensional, Semi-Conscious Control, self-only. See chart below.
# People Dice Available Aid Maximum
1-16 1 30 These numbers represent the maximums
17-32 2 45 It takes a while to build these up.
33-64 3 75 but at least it has limits.
65-124 4 120 The transdimensional allows her to use
people
125-250 5 180 on earth for "fuel" even when she's in
250-499 6 255 her home dimension.
500-999 7 375
1000+ 8 500 Fade: per 5 Hours
Nightmare Control Multi-Power:
Mental Illusions: 10 Dice, Transdimensional, only 10% Effective vs Awake.
Major Transform: 7 Dice, any raw material into artifacts & devices, inside
home dimension only. 250 kilos of matter per day limit.
Major Transform: 7 Dice, any raw material into lifeforms, home dimension
only.
250 kilos of matter per day limit.
Major Transform: 7 Dice, anything non-living into anything, inside home
dimension only, cannot affect beings not from her dimension,
cumulative.
Minor Transform: 10 Dice, any raw material into any other raw material,
matter from her home dimension only, zero endurance
Skills: Psychology, AK: Liveworld, AK: America, KS: Superhero Groups
KS: Nightmares, KS: Magic, KS: Demons, PS: Succubus
Stealth, Breakfall, Mimicry, Tracking
Find Weakness with Mental Powers
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
DQ rules a dimension called Liveworld. She is not the only intelligent thing
in the dimension, but she is the only being of ny power or consequence there.
She can travel to earth, but her power structure makes her prefer to stay at
home mostly. But what she does is stand near the "border" of the two planes
and draw emotional energy. She'll stand in a neighborhood in the suburbs,
use the ambient energy to build herself up, then t-port to where some wizard
or super-hero resides and make his night a living hell.
==============================================================================
=
This is my read of Dreamqueen, the perennial foe of Alpha Flight, from OHOTMU
5
Elliott aka Egyptoid
==============================================================================
=
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:16:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Fights!
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In a message dated 12/2/97 12:09:42 PM, susano@access.digex.net wrote:
>Mega Damage: Cell points his fist and vaporizes a city. Hulk tosses Power
>Man through some skyscrapers. Spidey gets the Capt Universe power and
>punches Hulk into orbit.
When I GM, there's a couple of ways to do these teffects:
a natural 3 on your attack roll accomplishes a lot more than what
your "active points" would normally make happen.
also Luck makes goofy & outlandish things happen.
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:16:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: EARTH FORCE - EARTH LORD
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EARTH-LORD (Earth Force
3)
53/20 STR 10 x1 Reputation: Good Cop (not in Hero Id)
11 DEX 10 x3 DF: Glowing Mark of Aton, Left Palm (concealable)
38/10 CON 10 x2 Hunted: Seth
16 BODY 10 x2 Watched: Egyptian Gods
10 INT 10 x1 Watched: Asgardian Gods
12 EGO 10 x2 Psych: Honest
17 PRE 10 x1 Psych: Helpful
14 COM 10 x.5 Psych: Clever, Not easily duped
15 PD S5 x1 DNPC: wife Marge, 2 kids
15 ED C5 x1 Secret ID: Tyle Brock, Policeman
4 SPD 1D10 x10
20 REC S5C5 x2
100 END Cx2 x.5
70 STUN BS2C2 x1
DemiGod of Rock & Stone Multi-Power: (100)
m) HKA, 3d6, Armor-Piercing, Half-End
m) HtH Atk, 13d6, Armor-Piercing, Half-End
m) Armor, 20 PD, 20 ED
m) Super-Leap, 6 hexes
(All slots Only In Hero ID)
Growth: up to 8 levels, In Hero ID Only, Zero-End
Density Increase: up to 2 levels, In Hero ID Only, Zero-End
STR: 33, In Hero ID Only
CON: 28, In Hero ID Only
Instant Change, regular clothes to Hero ID only
PS: Policeman
AK: New York
Contacts: Egyptian Gods, Thor, Avengers, rest of Earth Force
Contacts: Police Superiors, Informants
Favors: Bes, Aton, Thor
Skill Levels Multi-Power Attacks: 6
Everyperson Skills, AK's, & familiarities
Martial Arts: Police Combat Training, Night-Stick
Martial Arts: Def.Srike, Block, Basic Strike, Take-Down
Weapon Fam: Night Sticks, Pistols, Riot Gear
Combat Skills: +1 w/Ranged Weapons
=============================================================================
Not much background here, he was a regular cop in New York, and Seth gave
him powers in attempting to use him as a pawn versus Thor & his friends.
He tended to argue with Sky-Hawk about team goals & methods.
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:16:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: Characteristics
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In a message dated 12/2/97 2:04:06 PM, bob.greenwade@klock.com wrote:
> Only if PRE Defense (PRE, Defensive Only) is in play does this make any
>sense at all, and since a PRE Attack gives an "effect" as opposed to
>"damage" it wouldn't make any difference in play.
We do junk like this all the time.
Enforcer has Armor Piercing PRE. You resist his PRE attacks
with half your PRE. The few with PRE(defensive only) ignore that
and defend with full PRE.
I'd allow Penetrating PRE. If you got at least 10 "body" on your PRE
dice roll, you'd get at least a PRE+10 result off the chart. That's how
we ran Mind Control: Penetrating.
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:17:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: Density Decrease (formerly Non shrinking shrinking)
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the dd power i made up was valid, but only for certain SFX.
i wrote what i wrote based on what i understood the desired
effect to be. many of the other suggestions from others
are even more valid. ymmv. season to taste.
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:17:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CHAR: Set
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SET Giant Egyptoid Snake Demon from
OHOTMU 7
74 STR 10 x1
32 DEX 10 x3 DF: Huge 7-headed Serpentine Demonic God
99 CON 10 x2 Phys.Lim: Trapped in pocket sub-dimension of hell
48 BODY 10 x2 Dep: Must drain life energy of victim 1xday
73 INT 10 x1 Psych: Devious
99 EGO 10 x2 Psych: Evil
55 PRE 10 x1 Rep: Mythological
-15 COM 10 x.5 DNPC's: several demonic reptilian sons
35 PD S5 x1 Hunted: Egyptian Gods
35 ED C5 x1 Phys.Lim: Portion of essence trapped in vessel on
earth
10 SPD 1D10 x10 Psych: Bitter over death of all dinosaurs
45 REC S5C5 x2 Watched: Gaea
275 END Cx2 x.5 Phys.Lim: no fine manipulation (except via TK)
250 STUN BS2C2 x1
Offensive Magic VPP: 55 Point Pool (RKA, Transforms, Illusions, etc)
Defensive Magic VPP: 65 Point Pool (Armor, Invisibility, etc)
Mental Powers Magic VPP: 75 Point Pool (Mind Control, Mind Scan, BOECV...)
10d6 Aid to Mental Pool: Mental Powers become Transdimensional, Armor
Piercing,
and Area Effect Radius, only as regards Serpent Crown
15d6 Aid, to any power, skill, or characteristic, Transdimensional, only
to wearer of Serpent Crown
Growth, 45 points, (stats not figured in since he changes a lot)
Life Support: Heat, Cold, Vacuum, Aging, Sleep(1 head at a time),
breathe water, breathe fire, breathe acrid fumes of hell, pressure,
disease.
Regeneration: Persistent, 1 Body/Turn, Difficult to Dispel,
Always On, (Well Nigh Immortal)
Extra Limbs: seven mouths, tail.
Ultra-Vision, Infra-Vision, Spatial Awareness
Enhanced PER +7 with Smell
Targeting Scent: Tongues
Combat Sense: 23-
Find Weakness: 19- with venom blast
Immunity: to any & all poisons
KS: History, KS: Ancient History, AK: World, PS: Sorceror, KS: Magic,
KS: Demonology, KS: Cosmology, Seduction, KS: Veterinary, Animal Handler
Tactics, Persuasion, SC:Genetics, Deduction, Tracking
==============================================================================
What can you say about Set? He's a god of evil, god of reptiles.
Huge, monstrous, unearthly, amazing. And that's just his stats. :)
Fought Thor, FF, Avengers, Whole world, really. He's strongly tied to and
cautious of the Serpent Crown, as it's a free link to earth for him.
Otherwise he's trapped extra-dimensionally and really can't interact except
very indirectly with earthlings. Also, he's not very subtle with his power
pools. Nothing fancy, just stuff like Venom Blasts, Domination, Autofire RKA
Biting, massive amounts of killing. Thankfully he's ethereal most of the
time.
--
Elliott
From: Egyptoid@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:18:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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Five favorite Fight Scenes: ( itried to cross media)
Movie:
Quaid versus Draco in Dragonheart
(Honorable mention: 2-head dragon in Willow)
Fun Movie:
BTILC no no no, it pains me to lower myself to it. Martial arts movies,
especially JC's, tsk tsk. I don't know. No i retract that. Scrath btilc.
for my favorite fight scene from a movie I'm going to buck the tide so far:
Sally Field versus Shirley Maclaine in Steel Magnolias.
Fun Comic:
Fightman versus everbody in "Everyone Hates Fightman" ;)
"cuz one-shot is all I need"
Marvel:
X-Men versus the guardians of the M-krann crystal.
"I am Jahf, second guardian..."
:0 :0 :0 I about died, and I was only _reading_ the damn book!
(honorable mention: x-men vs. imperial guard, 1st meeting)
DC:
Superman versus Batman (w/Battlesuit) in Dark Knight
=======
Whatta great thread. thanks to whoever started it.
--
Elliott
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 02:19:22 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: CHAR: Shaggy
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At 05:21 PM 11/28/97 -0500, Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 11/28/97 4:49:47 AM, bob.greenwade@klock.com wrote:
>> Oh, darn. When I saw the Subject header, I was hoping this would be the
>>start of write-ups of Scooby-Doo and the gang.
>>---
>>Bob
>
>Don't laugh. there's a page out on the www where
>someone wrote up the Mystery Machine gang as Hunters
>for white wolf's vampire game. I could easily convert it to Hero
>for you if you like :) Velma, Fred, Diana, Scrappy, Shaggy, Scooby
>
Well, actually, you *should* laugh, as that conversion to WW *was* supposed
to be humorous... and it was pretty good, too. And (THANKFULLY!) didn't
contain that little bugger, Scrappy.
- Jerry
Who is 1 1/2 weeks behind on e-mail...
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 02:27:48 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: CHAR: Shaggy
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I wrote:
>At 05:21 PM 11/28/97 -0500, Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>>In a message dated 11/28/97 4:49:47 AM, bob.greenwade@klock.com wrote:
>>> Oh, darn. When I saw the Subject header, I was hoping this would be the
>>>start of write-ups of Scooby-Doo and the gang.
>>>---
>>>Bob
>>
>>Don't laugh. there's a page out on the www where
>>someone wrote up the Mystery Machine gang as Hunters
>>for white wolf's vampire game. I could easily convert it to Hero
>>for you if you like :) Velma, Fred, Diana, Scrappy, Shaggy, Scooby
>>
>Well, actually, you *should* laugh, as that conversion to WW *was* supposed
>to be humorous... and it was pretty good, too. And (THANKFULLY!) didn't
>contain that little bugger, Scrappy.
Oh, geez, I just had a terrible thought... I seem to vaguely remember that
they *did* have Scrappy... I think I just repressed it. Damn.
- Jerry
Who is 1 1/2 weeks behind on e-mail...
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:27:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
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Subject: Re: Help?
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>
> Your best bet is to not get overly complicated. Have him take the basic
> moves, and he can call them whatever he likes. He can even call the same move
> more than one thing - the name is basically special effect. Note that many of
> the wrestling moves SHOULD have the 'you fall' element as part of them. I
> would let the player SFX that part - he 'falls' as part of the move, but hops
> right back up before someone can take advantage of his prone position.
This is an excellent point. A basic strike could just as easily be an
elbow drop, since the wrestler gets right up before his opponant can.
This also reminds me. In my previous post on this, target falls should be
added to the crush, or crush should be replaced with grappling throw. I
prefer adding the target falls since these moves are supposed to be
devestating.
I rarely use moves that add to DCV with wrestling characters since they
rarely seem to be all that tough to hit:)
TokyoMark
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:33:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Tokyo Mark <bastet@iquest.net>
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Subject: Re: Re: CHAR: Shaggy
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> >Don't laugh. there's a page out on the www where
> >someone wrote up the Mystery Machine gang as Hunters
> >for white wolf's vampire game. I could easily convert it to Hero
> >for you if you like :) Velma, Fred, Diana, Scrappy, Shaggy, Scooby
> >
> Well, actually, you *should* laugh, as that conversion to WW *was* supposed
> to be humorous... and it was pretty good, too. And (THANKFULLY!) didn't
> contain that little bugger, Scrappy.
One of the Garou books (I think) contains Shaggy 20 years after the
Mystery Machine days, though under a different name to avoid copyright, I
suppose. I found the write up to be amusing, but I never could stand the
show and Shaggy ends up a burned out Pentex agent;).
TokyoMark
From: "JERRY MILLER" <jermil@pacbell.net>
Subject: unsubscribe !!! NOW !!!
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:17:43 -0800
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<x-html><html><head></head><BODY bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p><font size=2 color="#000000" face="Arial">this mess is just to much to bear, I WANT MY NAME/ADDRESS OFF THE MAILING LIST NOW !!!<br><br>UNSUBSCRIBE UNSUBSCRIBE UNSUBSCRIBE UNSUBSCRIBE</p>
</font></body></html></x-html>Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 03:58:45 -0800
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> >>>>> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> writes:
>
> MS> I'd heard that Rathbone had to really down play his skill in orde to make
> MS> Flynn look good on camera.
>
> At least partially.
>
> [...]
>
> MS> So, Danny Kaye knew how to use a sword, or was he just that 'out of
> MS> control'?
>
> Kaye was out of control. That is what makes that scene so tense to a fan
> of fight choreography.
Oh, no, no, no. Danny Kaye was very talented with his stage combat.
He knew exactly what he was doing. It was, in fact, his prowess that
allowed him to *look* like he was clueless and out of control.
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: VPP Question
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:51:34 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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>
> In the VPP description, it says that a character with this power
> framework can set aside a pool of points that can be used to create any
> power with a given special effect.
> Later, in the limitations, a example he gives is: -1/2 Limited Special
> Effects.
>
> My question is: is by default the powers in VPP have to be of a
> specific special effects and that limitation is applicable only if this
> special effect is somehow limited (if this is the case, example please...
> I am not sure I understood how would be this case) or is the limitation
> applicable if the powers have common special effects (So the powers
> doesn't need to be of the same special effect by default then?) ?
>
No, it does not have to be of a particular special effect according
to the rules. But don't expect any sane GM to allow a character without one.
On the other hand, what's that lim there for?
Is 'Gadget Powers' worth it? or 'Magic'?
I would say no.
However 'Cybernetic Implants' or 'Voodoo Sorcery' would get it in my book.
The Diff?
The level of detail. The first two are very broad catagories that will give
almost anything. The second two are very detailed and possibly very
restrictive. They are therefore a 'limited special effect' as I call it.
Rook : a common Old World gregarious bird related to the American crow.
Super Hero Links Page: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Baseball in Hero (was Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:04:03 -0500
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I agree that the pitcher isn't just aiming at a hex. But he's not aiming
for the glove, either. He's aiming for the strike zone, which is about
1/4 man-sized, so I'd give it a 3 (hex) + 4 (shrinking) = 7 DCV.
On a related topic, has anyone ever had characters play a sport using
the Hero rules? Once, our superhero team put on a soccer game among
ourselves for a charity event. My speedster against the rest of the
team. The hardest opposition was from the team illusionist...
Dave Mattingly
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 06:32:24 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Characteristics
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At 02:16 AM 12/3/97 -0500, Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 12/2/97 2:04:06 PM, bob.greenwade@klock.com wrote:
>> Only if PRE Defense (PRE, Defensive Only) is in play does this make any
>>sense at all, and since a PRE Attack gives an "effect" as opposed to
>>"damage" it wouldn't make any difference in play.
>
>We do junk like this all the time.
>
>Enforcer has Armor Piercing PRE. You resist his PRE attacks
>with half your PRE. The few with PRE(defensive only) ignore that
>and defend with full PRE.
This has been hacked over before, and the best point that was made was
the difference between the affected characteristic of an attack, and its
defense.
Take a Killing Attack. It is defended against by either resistant PD or
resistant ED, and affects the target's BODY (and his STUN as a secondary
effect). The Armor Piercing doesn't cut the target's BODY in half for
purposes of the effect (that would make such an attack impossibly powerful
in a heroic level game, and worth almost nothing in a superheroic level
one). It cuts the resistant PD/ED in half, unless that defense is Hardened.
I frankly don't know how you came up with the mechanic you did.
>I'd allow Penetrating PRE. If you got at least 10 "body" on your PRE
>dice roll, you'd get at least a PRE+10 result off the chart. That's how
>we ran Mind Control: Penetrating.
Again, this is nothing like what Penetrating does in the book. If it's
how you want to run effect-based Powers as a house rule, then that's
different, but by the printed rules Penetrating Mind Control simply has a
minimum total effect equal to the amount of BODY rolled on it (and is
therefore only useful if it as the Cumulative Advantage also on it).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
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X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 06:40:45 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Help?
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At 09:49 PM 12/2/97 -0600, Robert A. Coffin wrote:
>
>A while back on the net a friend of mine assures me he found a rather long
>article about "professional" wrestling for Champions. I have dug and dug
>and have found almost nothing. I am looking for one of the players who,
>after watching 4 hours of WCW wrestling, had a brainstorm and wants to
>play a pro wrestler type character...any help would be great.
If all else fails, just use the Professional Wrestling package from The
Ultimate Martial Artist (page 72). I've also seen the article you're
looking for, and it's quite good, but the write-up in TUMA should be
sufficient.
Maybe you could try doing a net search (I recommend
http://www.hotbot.com for this one) on the phrase "Ultimate Professional
Wrestler"; that, as I recall, was the title of the article.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
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X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 06:43:00 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Odd abilities.
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X-UID: 105
At 12:16 AM 12/3/97 -0500, Egyptoid@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 12/2/97 4:21:59 PM, susano@access.digex.net wrote:
>>The ability to utterly and totally financially ruin someone within
>>> a period of days with one phone call.
>>Dunno, but I want that power too.
>
>We've done it. had a villain called the accountant.
>4d6 Wealth Drain.
For the stated ability, I'd give it the Gradual Effect Limitation.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:08:16 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rodrigo Cesar Gevaerd de Faria <gevaerd@laranjeiras.lci.ufrj.br>
Subject: VPP Question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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In the VPP description, it says that a character with this power
framework can set aside a pool of points that can be used to create any
power with a given special effect.
Later, in the limitations, a example he gives is: -1/2 Limited Special
Effects.
My question is: is by default the powers in VPP have to be of a
specific special effects and that limitation is applicable only if this
special effect is somehow limited (if this is the case, example please...
I am not sure I understood how would be this case) or is the limitation
applicable if the powers have common special effects (So the powers
doesn't need to be of the same special effect by default then?) ?
[]s.
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:43:55 -0500 (EST)
From: "D. Michael Basinger" <dbasinge@arches.uga.edu>
X-Sender: dbasinge@archa8.cc.uga.edu
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Baseball in Hero (was Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Dave Mattingly wrote:
> I agree that the pitcher isn't just aiming at a hex. But he's not aiming
> for the glove, either. He's aiming for the strike zone, which is about
> 1/4 man-sized, so I'd give it a 3 (hex) + 4 (shrinking) = 7 DCV.
Don't forget skill levels
+1 Pitching Little League
+2 Pitching High School
+3 Pitching College
+4 Pitching Minors
+5 Pitching Major League
Plus athletes proabaly have a slightly higher dex, DEX 13+
> On a related topic, has anyone ever had characters play a sport using
> the Hero rules? Once, our superhero team put on a soccer game among
> ourselves for a charity event. My speedster against the rest of the
> team. The hardest opposition was from the team illusionist...
I have heard of Football rules for Champions. Also, don't forget the old
supplement Autodueling Champions.
Mike
--
D. Michael Basinger
dbasinge@arches.uga.edu
http://www.arches.uga.edu/~dbasinge
From: Eric Burns <burns@cug.dorm.usm.maine.edu>
Subject: Re: Bounced message
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:59:35 -0500 (EST)
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> erm, i've got about 200 of these so far today. . .. anyone else with
> simmilar problems this week?
>
Yeah, I got over 300. Excuse me for a second....
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
erm... okay, I'm better now.
-Eric
X-Forwarding-Note: Was sent to herolist@october.com; forwarding to hero-l@omg.org
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 08:24:51 -0800
X-To: Multiple recipients of Hero <hero-l@october.com>
Subject: Re: Bounced message
X-Listname: Hero
Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
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erm, i've got about 200 of these so far today. . .. anyone else with simmilar problems
this week?
NetMgr+ wrote:
>
> Please note that the system that this message was addressed to no
> longer exists, or is not a Member of the IMA Gateway system, and
> that the below message is undeliverable. So it is being deleted.
>
> It would be a good idea to confirm that you are using the correct address.
>
> If this is a valid system, but not a valid Member of the IMA, they can
> contact me at the address below about joining our gateway.
>
> Also, if this is a mailing list, please remove the intended recipient
> from all of your configs and listings. The address of the intended
> recipient is listed right after the "Apparently-to:" line towards the
> top of the text below.
>
> Note: If the original message WAS part of a mailing list, and you're
> unable to remove this person from the listing, please forward a copy of
> this message to the list keeper (coordinator) for removal.
>
> Thanks,
> John McAlpin - IMA Gatekeeper
> john.mcalpin@1202.ima.infomail.com
> FidoNet 1:382/1202
>
> (NONODE.TXT)
> Original message:
>
> --
> Date: Mon Nov 17 '97, 06:46:08
> Attr: pvt fwd kil
> From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT, (1:382/87.0)
> To : hero-l, (1:382/111.0)
> Subj: Re: TUSV (Vechiles/Weapo
> --
> From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
> @X-To: hero-l@october.com
> @Subject: Re: TUSV (Vechiles/Weapo
> @Message-Id: <01IQ3XB2XHG8BF0IRS@JCS1.JCSTATE.EDU>
> @Reply-To: hero-l@october.com (Multiple recipients of Hero)
> @Precedence: bulk
> @Mime-Version: 1.0
> @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
> @Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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>
> I wasn't kidding.
>
> ---
> --
> | Fidonet: NetMgr+ 1:382/86
> |Internet: NetMgr+@ima.infomail.com
> |
> |Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly their own.
X-Sender: mlknight@pop.mindspring.com
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:43:16 -0700
From: Michelle Knight <mlknight@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Bounced message
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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At 10:59 AM 12/3/97 -0500, Eric Burns wrote:
>> erm, i've got about 200 of these so far today. . .. anyone else with
>> simmilar problems this week?
>>
>
>Yeah, I got over 300. Excuse me for a second....
You think that *you* have it bad. I got home early this morning and found
about 400 of them cluttering my mailbox. Thank God they're gone.
Michelle
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:44:49 -0500 (EST)
From: William K Bushway <wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu>
X-Sender: wbushway@mason2.gmu.edu
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Help?
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On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 09:49 PM 12/2/97 -0600, Robert A. Coffin wrote:
>
> >A while back on the net a friend of mine assures me he found a rather long
> >article about "professional" wrestling for Champions. I have dug and dug
> >and have found almost nothing. I am looking for one of the players who,
> >after watching 4 hours of WCW wrestling, had a brainstorm and wants to
> >play a pro wrestler type character...any help would be great.
>
> Maybe you could try doing a net search (I recommend
> http://www.hotbot.com for this one) on the phrase "Ultimate Professional
> Wrestler"; that, as I recall, was the title of the article.
Being the person who originally posted it to the list, I truly
doubt you'll find it by searching the net. That is because the place
where I found it no longer exists. Doesn't matter much, because their
link to the article was removed before I posted it.
Therefore, though I do not know the original source of the
arcticle (beyond it's authors), I feel justified on putting it up on my
homepage. I did a lot of work converting it to HTML (especially the
tables), so tell me what you think.
*** "The Ultimate Professional Wrestler" can be found by visiting my
horribly incomplete and under construction homepage
(http://mason.gmu.edu/~wbushway/), selecting "Roleplaying" from the menu
on the left, then selecting "Champions" from the sub-menu that pops up
under it. In the main frame (yes, frames, and I'm not apologizing), go to
the very bottom of the page. Follow the link that says "The Ultimate
Professional Wrestler." Oh, and you can check out all my other Champions
stuff, too. ***
However, NOTHING else on my homepage works. None of the links are
active, nor do I have a "No Frames" version up yet. Which is why I
haven't registered with any search engine yet. Which is why I doubt
you'll find it with one.
William K. Bushway, wbushway@osf1.gmu.edu
http://Mason.GMU.edu/~wbushway/index.html
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive."
-The Tick, The Tick Vs.The Breadmaster
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:51:23 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Help?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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> > A while back on the net a friend of mine assures me he found a rather long
> > article about "professional" wrestling for Champions. I have dug and dug
> > and have found almost nothing. I am looking for one of the players who,
> > after watching 4 hours of WCW wrestling, had a brainstorm and wants to
> > play a pro wrestler type character...any help would be great.
>
> I keep threatening to write something up on this. Maybe once my classes
> are over next week I finally will and post it on the WEB.
Well, the article I saw was pretty complete.
> The article is out there someplace, but I forget where. My bookmark's
> went poof when my HD crashed a while ago.
Hmmm. I have a copy somewhere of The Ultimate Professional
Wrestler. I don't have a bookmark, but seem to remember there being a
link from the Herogames web page.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:58:55 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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> Marvel:
> X-Men versus the guardians of the M-krann crystal.
> "I am Jahf, second guardian..."
> :0 :0 :0 I about died, and I was only _reading_ the damn book!
Explain. I didn't see this one.
-Tim Gilberg
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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Date: 03 Dec 1997 12:01:17 -0500
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "CS" == Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com> writes:
>> Kaye was out of control. That is what makes that scene so tense to a
>> fan of fight choreography.
CS> Oh, no, no, no. Danny Kaye was very talented with his stage combat.
CS> He knew exactly what he was doing. It was, in fact, his prowess that
CS> allowed him to *look* like he was clueless and out of control.
By "out of control" I meant that the fight in question was unchoreographed.
As far as Rathbone was concerned it was for real, because he did not know
what Kaye would do.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:02:11 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Re: CHAR: Shaggy
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> One of the Garou books (I think) contains Shaggy 20 years after the
> Mystery Machine days, though under a different name to avoid copyright, I
> suppose. I found the write up to be amusing, but I never could stand the
> show and Shaggy ends up a burned out Pentex agent;).
Hmmm. Gotta see that one.
Anyway, that show was great. At least the first series, anyway.
In the pre-Scrappy (the antichrist of cartoons) days.
Going with the drug-trip reading of that show, where it was seen
as one long acid trip, that must make the second series a bad trip, as all
the monsters were real that time _and_ we had to put up with Scrappy.
-Tim Gilberg
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Baseball in Hero (was Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?)
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Date: 03 Dec 1997 12:04:26 -0500
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "DM" == Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com> writes:
DM> I agree that the pitcher isn't just aiming at a hex. But he's not aiming
DM> for the glove, either. He's aiming for the strike zone, which is about
DM> 1/4 man-sized, so I'd give it a 3 (hex) + 4 (shrinking) = 7 DCV.
Sigh.
One does *NOT* use Hero combat to simulate a baseball game.
You (the GM) look at the PC's "PS: Baseball Player" skill, make up some
numbers for his teammates and the opposing team, roll some dice to give you
an idea of who is winning, then interrupt the game with the villain of the
story. This works better if the villain is one of the PC's Hunteds.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: The Court Jester (was Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:57:52 -0500
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Actually, I heard in an interview with Danny Kaye that the fight WAS
choreographed. But Rathbone couldn't quite get the hang of the scene, so
a stand-in did his fighting. If you'll look closely, there are a LOT of
parts of the swordfight where Rathbone's back is all we see.
Dave Mattingly
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Re: Baseball in Hero (was Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is goo
d?)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:00:29 -0500
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To: champ-l@omg.org
Rat said:
>One does *NOT* use Hero combat to simulate a baseball game.
>You (the GM) look at the PC's "PS: Baseball Player" skill, make up
>some numbers for his teammates and the opposing team, roll some
>dice to give you an idea of who is winning, then interrupt the game
>with the villain of the story. This works better if the villain is one
of
>the PC's Hunteds.
But what if you're attacked in the middle of a play? The pitch is
thrown, the batter hits a pop fly into center field. But just as the
batter hit, the center fielder was shot. The speedster catcher now has
to decide to run into the stands to catch the killer, or run to center
field and catch the ball.
Dave Mattingly
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Baseball in Hero (was Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is goo d?)
Mail-Copies-To: never
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "DM" == Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com> writes:
DM> But what if you're attacked in the middle of a play? The pitch is
DM> thrown, the batter hits a pop fly into center field. But just as the
DM> batter hit, the center fielder was shot. The speedster catcher now has
DM> to decide to run into the stands to catch the killer, or run to center
DM> field and catch the ball.
Then you make him roll his PS, assuming he does something unheroic and goes
after the ball.
But I would say you aren't thinking big enough. He will not have to make
that choice because the villain will have done something dramatic to the
ball (Presence attack) giving him time to do whatever it is he wants to
do... which could be just about anything.
Think big. This is a game in which it is possible for a villain to steal
the biggest diamond in the city... the baseball field itself.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
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\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 14:48:13 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Characteristics
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ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> I have heard of Penetrating PRE, used in Presence attacks.
>I have also heard of Advantages like Reduced END applied to STR.
>Could you apply other Advantages to Characteristics?
Penetrating PRE? How is that useful? I've never seen it...
I've seen AP on STR (Gremlin, Classic Enemies), and Reduced END as well.
These wouldn't affect lifting capacity, or figured CHA at all, IMO.
However, the AP is tricky with a weapon... But I don't see Gremlin using
weapons any time soon, and she's an NPC, so it's less important. Similar
for Penetrating and other combat oriented Advantages. Generally, if you
want these Advantages on STR, especially for Martial Arts, I would say to
buy them as No Range physical EBs with the appropriate Advantages.
- Jerry
Who is 1 1/2 weeks behind on e-mail...
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Characteristics
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "JD" == Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu> writes:
JD> Penetrating PRE? How is that useful?
It is totally useless. Anyone who would be affected by whatever "damage"
that penetrates would be affected more greatly by the attack itself.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
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\
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 97 20:53:02
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Character experience
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Mon, 01 Dec 1997 23:37:55 -0500, C. Badger wrote:
>At 21:15 11/30/97, qts wrote:
>>I've been having a think (always dangerous!)
>>
>>Would people agree that there is a general progression of experience
>>reflected by cost in the various frameworks?
>>
>>With a multipower, generally a character can only use one or two powers
>>at the same time.
>>
>>With an Elemental Control, a character can demonstrate their skill by
>>performing all their tricks at the same time.
>>
>>With a Variable Power Pool, a character can demonstrate their mastery
>>by doing *anything* [related to the SFX and guided by the Limitations,
>>of course].
>>
>>Comments? And yes, I know that a VPP can be cheaper than an EC, but
>>you've got the AP cap.
>
>Also depending on what limits you might be able to use more then one power
>in a VPP also......
>
>But what are you trying to get at here?
I'm not entirely sure. It seems a logical progression, and I'm
wondering what others think.
>Multipower is fairly easy to (low cost) to add something new, VPP easy to
>increase powers of EC is harder to expand overall with new experience.
I disagree about the EC: you just increase the powers you want, and
once you've increased them all, you can increase the EC bonus.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 97 21:01:26
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Character experience
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:47:26 -0500 (EST), Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
>
>On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, qts wrote:
>
>> Would people agree that there is a general progression of experience
>> reflected by cost in the various frameworks?
>>
>> With a multipower, generally a character can only use one or two powers
>> at the same time.
>>
>> With an Elemental Control, a character can demonstrate their skill by
>> performing all their tricks at the same time.
>>
>> With a Variable Power Pool, a character can demonstrate their mastery
>> by doing *anything* [related to the SFX and guided by the Limitations,
>> of course].
>>
>
>I disagree strongly that the frameworks represent a progression of
>experience. They *might* represent such a progression, if it suited a
>character's special effects, but the frameworks are more likely to be
>employed to simulate effects which won't blend into one another with
>experience.
>
>A multipower, for example, might represent a limited power supply for a
>number of gadgets. No matter how good you are with that laser pistol, it's
>still going to cut into the energy for your anti-grav boots. Or it might
>consist of ultra-slots of mutually exclusive powers or weapons - no amount
>of experience is going to let you assume your flame form and your water
>form at the same time. Speaking of ultra slots, consider their inspiration
>- Ultra Boy of the Legion of Super Heroes. Pre-Zero Hour, he got quite
>experienced but could still only use one power at a time; it was just the
>way his powers worked.
Being FH oriented, I'm more interested in wielders of power rather than
modelling items.
Consider Lolly Pop, a cold-oriented super: to start with she has a MP
with ultra slots, as she can't control her powers well enough to do
more than one thing at a time. Later, she gets more control over her
powers, and learns to do more than one thing at a time and thus has an
EC. Later still, she gains complete mastery over her ice powers, and
thus has a VPP.
A side effect of this I've just realised is that it keeps the power
level down
>Moreover, a VPP is more than the product of experience. There's a
>difference between being very very good at using one's abilities and being
>able to do *anything*.
A VPP is limited to a single SFX.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"Rick Holding\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 97 21:05:43
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Just some more confusion.
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Tue, 02 Dec 1997 20:20:05 -0800, Rick Holding wrote:
>"qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> "champ-l@omg.org" wrote:
>
>> > Tiki has Telekenesis. He can use it to fly around (Flight),
>> >and to carry his friends along with him.
>> > Tiki should buy Flight UAO for his friends. What's the limit
>> >Tink could carry while flying?
>>
>> Tiki should buy Flight Usable BY Others.
> I disagree. Tiki is the one who is in control. Flight usable by
>others gives control of the flight to the others. Tiki is carrying them
>with TK. He should buy AoE or Explosion on his TK to represent him
>carrying them with perhaps a selective advantage if he has fine control.
So just limit it 'Must be within X" of Tiki'. This will help out when
they get attacked in the air.
>
>>
>> > His STR or his TK's STR? Could
>> >TK 'carry' and object along with him using his TK while flying?
>> > If Tiki picked up an object (like a log), and wanted it
>> >to accelerate towards something, how fast would it travel and how
>> >much damage would it do?
>> > Mechanically, how would TK_ based on EGo, Invisible power
>> >effects (except for mental) effect a target? Would it do BODY?
>> >What defense wouuld be applied against it? Would STR be rolled to break
>> >out of this particular type of TK's grab?
>>
>> You seem to be going about this the wrong way: think of all the effects
>> Tiki can do (Flight, TK, EB vs PD, RKA [when Tiki picks up a nasty
>> pointy bit of metal], etc) and put them in a framework, either a
>> Multipower or Elemental Control.
>
> Certainly, an elemental control would be the best way. This would
>allow Tiki to both fly and carry things at the same time. Other powers
>that could be considered would be force wall, missile de/reflection and
>explosive energy blast with double knockback and zero range.
Sounds good to me.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"champ-l@omg.org\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 97 21:06:31
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Just some more confusion
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Mon, 01 Dec 1997 16:17:43 -0500 (EST), ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> How would you calculate the KB from a EB Autofire, Indrect, Invisible
>Power Effects (except mental), the f/x being 'fluidic fisticuffs,' tiny
>poltergeist-like punches and pinches from all directions?
If they're all tiny, there is NO knockback.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"Len Carpenter\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 97 21:12:36
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Waste of Bandwidth
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:05:47 -0500, Len Carpenter wrote:
>
>
>For comic book fights,
<snip>
>Last but not least, Thrud the Barbarian vs. anyone.
Yes!
Remember the Elric lampoon? And the 'battering ram'?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 13:18:13 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: McAfee
Subject: Re: All these damn bounce messages
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Todd Hanson wrote:
>
> Bob Greenwade wrote:
> They don't look to me like they're being bounced from Red October;
>
> > rather, from someone at Austin Imformation Association (ima.infomail.com).
> > My guess is that someone who subscribed to the list either lost his address
> > there, or dropped it without telling the list manager.
>
> On every one of the messages, the 'reply-to' field is set to
> 'hero-l@october.com (multiple recipients of Hero)'
>
> This still looks like Red October to me.
>
> Todd
I wrote the sysadm at infomail.
I wrote:
> The champ-l list manager might of already contacted you, but it
> looks like there is a multiple bounce happenning. I've gotten
> ~200 messages in the last couple hours that look like this:
> <snip>
Sorry about that. This was a backlog that got freed up. There should
only be bounced message now when they are sent to a non-existant
address. Sorry for the inconvenience.
John
----
So it looks like it probably was somebody who gets the champs list
forwarded from Red october thru this gate. Actually for a bounce
screw-up, it could of been much worse.
-Mark Lemming
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com (Unverified)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 13:26:53 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: TUSV: Locks
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Here's a little something that just occurred to me, and I typed it into
my manuscript for TUSV this morning. I'd like to see what people think.
(It's been placed under Talents, for lack of a better category.)
Locks
By default, every vehicle has doors that lock, and an ignition that
locks. Each of these may be either a physical lock that uses a key, and
which requires the Lockpicking Skill to bypass, or an electronic lock that
uses a number combination, and which requires the Security Systems Skill to
get past. In both cases the Skill Roll for overcoming the lock without the
key is unmodified.
However, this special, optional Talent can provide penalties to the
Skill Roll for purposes of trying to get in, or for purposes of trying to
start the vehicle. For every point spent in the Talent, those trying to
break in get a -1 to their Lockpicking or Security Systems Roll on one of
the two locks. (If the vehicle has a computer with Skills that would
oppose the character trying to use Lockpicking or Security Systems, then
this Talent simply adds to the Skill Roll for purposes of the one lock.)
Optionally, a vehicle's trunk (cargo space) may be considered a separate
Lock, and must be overcome separately.
Note that, while the exterior, ignition, and optional trunk Locks are
freebies, a separate Lock must be purchased if the designer wants some
other level of security. For example, a player may want the control panel
for the vehicle's weapons to have a lock. Such a lock costs 2 points (per
lock) just to have it locked up, plus 1 point per -1 to the necessary
Lockpicking or Security Systems Roll.
My logic for the costs is this: Even though each point is like buying a
Skill Level with Lockpicking (or whatever skill), which would normally cost
2 points per +/-1, it seemed rather excessive to charge 2 points for just
one set of locks, and it didn't seem logical to charge a blanket cost for
all locks on the vehicle.
The 2 points per additional Lock is because 1 point per +1 is only
available for Background Skills, so I decided to structure a Lock like a
Background Skill that just doesn't use a Roll.
Any feedback would be welcome.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 97 21:27:28
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Fight scenes
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
All this talk about fight scenes leads me to a question:
Can anyone cite a fight scene funnier than those in Braveheart which is
NOT deliberately funny?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:50:43 -0400 (AST)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: VPP Question
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Brian Wong wrote:
> > Later, in the limitations, a example he gives is: -1/2 Limited Special
> > Effects.
> >
> > My question is: is by default the powers in VPP have to be of a
> > specific special effects and that limitation is applicable only if this
> > special effect is somehow limited (if this is the case, example please...
> > I am not sure I understood how would be this case) or is the limitation
> > applicable if the powers have common special effects (So the powers
> > doesn't need to be of the same special effect by default then?) ?
> >
> No, it does not have to be of a particular special effect according
> to the rules.
Yes, it does. Read the first sentence of the section on VPPs. This point
is repeated numerous times throughout the section as well.
> On the other hand, what's that lim there for?
>
> Is 'Gadget Powers' worth it? or 'Magic'?
> I would say no.
> However 'Cybernetic Implants' or 'Voodoo Sorcery' would get it in my book.
>
> The Diff?
>
> The level of detail. The first two are very broad catagories that will give
> almost anything. The second two are very detailed and possibly very
> restrictive. They are therefore a 'limited special effect' as I call it.
Agreed.
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:51:52 -0400 (AST)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Baseball in Hero (was Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On 3 Dec 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> DM> I agree that the pitcher isn't just aiming at a hex. But he's not aiming
> DM> for the glove, either. He's aiming for the strike zone, which is about
> DM> 1/4 man-sized, so I'd give it a 3 (hex) + 4 (shrinking) = 7 DCV.
>
> Sigh.
>
> One does *NOT* use Hero combat to simulate a baseball game.
But if the system works well, you should be _able_ to and expect
semi-reasonable results.
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:53:14 -0400 (AST)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Characteristics
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >I'd allow Penetrating PRE. If you got at least 10 "body" on your PRE
> >dice roll, you'd get at least a PRE+10 result off the chart. That's how
> >we ran Mind Control: Penetrating.
>
> Again, this is nothing like what Penetrating does in the book. If it's
> how you want to run effect-based Powers as a house rule, then that's
> different, but by the printed rules Penetrating Mind Control simply has a
> minimum total effect equal to the amount of BODY rolled on it (and is
> therefore only useful if it as the Cumulative Advantage also on it).
Cumulative? On Mind Control? Does that really belong in a paragraph
allegedly describing the by-the-book rules?
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:58:26 -0400 (AST)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Help?
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Todd Hanson wrote:
> a few examples I've used:
>
> martial strike: headbutt, punch or forearm
> martial throw: armdrag, hurricarana (frankensteiner), any number of
> suplexes
Eh. I know you don't want to get too detailed, but I have difficulty with
the idea of an armdrag and a hurricarana being mechanically identical.
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:59:16 -0400 (AST)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
> > > -Snake Pliskin vs. the big gladiator in Escape from New York (he
> > > was really fighting for his life in that one)
> >
> > Well, consider the gladiator was Ox Baker, from my home town of
> > Indianapolis. He accidently killed two men in the wrestling ring as a pro
> > wrestler, so you are right on here. REALLY fighting for his life:)
>
> Yeah. In the director's release they're talking about the fight,
> and Ox just didn't seem to have the point of restraint and "fake" combat.
Which, if you think about it, is a pretty odd problem for a pro wrestler
to have.
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 17:12:29 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Michael Surbrook wrote:
>Okay, here is a totally useless but amusing question:
>
>What are the top five fight sequences you have ever seen (any media)?
>This can include live action, animated, comic book, what ever. The only
>requirement is that it be between people, not space ships or fighter
>planes.
>
oop. Well, I can list some, not necessarily in order... and not
necessarily *THE BEST*, either...
A) John Cuszack, Dan Aykroyd. "Grosse Point Blank" I enjoyed the whole
movie, especially the gunfight at the end, I've never pictured Aykroyd as
an assassin before.
B) "Demon City Shinjuku" The bit with the
Spider/Human/Demon/Drider-looking thing with the mouth on it's human chest,
and the hero with the bokken.
C) "The Tick v. Filth," from the Tick TV show. Ok, ok, it wasn't that
great a fight, but it seemed really Kirby-esque, and the Urchin was great!
D) JLA #14 (current series). The assault by the heroes on Darkseid's
empire... and he gets taken out by Connor and Ray... (GA and the Atom,
that is)
E) eeeee.... nevermind.
Basically, I was trying to hit some that others didn't...
>2) Chun Li vs Vega in "Streetfighter II the Animated Movie".
>
Good one. Very dynamic.
>4) Son Goku (and Vegita) vs Metal Kooler in Dragonball Z Movie 6
>
Ehh. I don't go in for that sort of thing normally, and I haven't seen
this particular one at all. What draws you to it?
- Jerry
Who has just realized he's caught up on his e-mail now... : D
From: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 97 22:22:13
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <John.Desmarais@ibm.net>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Marvel Conversions: Doctor Doom
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Tue, 02 Dec 1997 23:31:40 -0500, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
>>I've seen Doom's face. His "horribly scarred face" has a single scar
>>two inches long on one cheek. He's just psychotic about it.
>>
>Didn't realize you and Vic were friends...
>But, regardless, I haven't seen his face, but current comic mags show close
>ups of his eyes continuously, and they have burn scars around them,
>reminiscent of Baron Zemo.
The amount of scarring varies wildly from creative team to creative team. I've seen him
appearing in comics at both ends of the scale. Kirby's drawings always implied a
great deal of scarring under the mask - and Kirby did draw him first.
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:25:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Reply-To: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Character experience
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, qts wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:47:26 -0500 (EST), Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
> >
> >On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, qts wrote:
> >
> >> Would people agree that there is a general progression of experience
> >> reflected by cost in the various frameworks?
> >>
[snip]
> >
> >I disagree strongly that the frameworks represent a progression of
> >experience. They *might* represent such a progression, if it suited a
> >character's special effects, but the frameworks are more likely to be
> >employed to simulate effects which won't blend into one another with
> >experience.
> >
>
> Being FH oriented, I'm more interested in wielders of power rather than
> modelling items.
>
> Consider Lolly Pop, a cold-oriented super: to start with she has a MP
> with ultra slots, as she can't control her powers well enough to do
> more than one thing at a time. Later, she gets more control over her
> powers, and learns to do more than one thing at a time and thus has an
> EC. Later still, she gains complete mastery over her ice powers, and
> thus has a VPP.
>
> A side effect of this I've just realised is that it keeps the power
> level down
>
I can see how this approach will work quite well for what you want to do.
My only objection was the implication that this progression might be
inherent in the system, which it certainly is not. Making a progression of
these frameworks part of your magic system, though, is entirely valid and
a good idea.
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 15:06:52 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Baseball in Hero
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 01:58 PM 12/3/97 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>> "DM" == Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com> writes:
>
>DM> But what if you're attacked in the middle of a play? The pitch is
>DM> thrown, the batter hits a pop fly into center field. But just as the
>DM> batter hit, the center fielder was shot. The speedster catcher now has
>DM> to decide to run into the stands to catch the killer, or run to center
>DM> field and catch the ball.
>
>Then you make him roll his PS, assuming he does something unheroic and goes
>after the ball.
Nah. He goes after the ball, catches the fly to win the game, and then
throws the ball to bean the villain.
>But I would say you aren't thinking big enough. He will not have to make
>that choice because the villain will have done something dramatic to the
>ball (Presence attack) giving him time to do whatever it is he wants to
>do... which could be just about anything.
>
>Think big. This is a game in which it is possible for a villain to steal
>the biggest diamond in the city... the baseball field itself.
Good plot for Facet (the closest thing to a cool villain in European
Enemies) to come to the USA.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 15:07:30 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Bounced message
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
At 10:59 AM 12/3/97 -0500, Eric Burns wrote:
>> erm, i've got about 200 of these so far today. . .. anyone else with
>> simmilar problems this week?
>>
>
>Yeah, I got over 300. Excuse me for a second....
>
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>erm... okay, I'm better now.
My count of the total before it stopped is 698.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
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Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:50:27 -0400 (AST)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition Hero Syste
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sat, 29 Nov 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> Killing Attacks only ingore non-resistant defenses for purposes of BODY,
> unless the target has no non-resistant defenses at all.
> They also do less STUN on average, and less knockback.
They don't do less STUN, except against low-defense opponents. A quick
look at the expected damage that a 15 AP killing attack and a 15 AP normal
attack do against various levels of DEF:
Normal Killing
0 DEF 10.5 9.33
5 DEF 5.52 5.08
6 DEF 4.57 4.5
7 DEF 3.66 4.03
8 DEF 2.83 3.56
9 DEF 2.08 3.14
10 DEF 1.46 2.75
15 DEF 0.07 1.33
20 DEF 0 0.53
With more dice it the calculations get longer, but I can't see any reason
why the same trends wouldn't occur at higher levels.
> And they cannot be Bounced or Spread.
I've found no rule stating that they can't be bounced.
> Theoretically, at least, these are supposed to balance out the fact that
> KAs do more BODY on average, and ignore non-resistant defenses for purposes
> of BODY (and for STUN if the target has no resistant defenses).
They do more BODY, comparable STUN, and get a form of AVLD for free.
Against that we have that they can't be spread which, on its own, isn't
even enough to merit a -1/4 Limitation. Doesn't seem balanced to me.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: TUSV: Locks
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 03 Dec 1997 18:57:24 -0500
Lines: 31
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To: champ-l@omg.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
BG> However, this special, optional Talent can provide penalties to the
BG> Skill Roll for purposes of trying to get in, or for purposes of trying
BG> to start the vehicle. For every point spent in the Talent, those
BG> trying to break in get a -1 to their Lockpicking or Security Systems
BG> Roll on one of the two locks.
Just a point, but a lock is only part of the system. Anyone breaking into
a car bypasses the door and ignition locks, the former with a slim jim, the
latter with a screwdriver if the ignition wires are inaccessible. The
former circumvents the keyway, the latter either bypasses it entirely or
breaks it off.
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--
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
\
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:58:19 -0800
From: RGSchwerdtfeger@directv.com (Richard G Schwerdtfeger)
Subject: Re: TUSV: Locks
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part
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To: champ-l@omg.org
Maybe it would just be easier to have a talent give a blanket -3 or 5
to lockpicking roles, rather than have to buy each minus separately.
I know that I don't need *that* much detail in my vehicle designs.
Richard
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:59:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Baseball in Hero
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On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >Think big. This is a game in which it is possible for a villain to steal
> >the biggest diamond in the city... the baseball field itself.
>
> Good plot for Facet (the closest thing to a cool villain in European
> Enemies) to come to the USA.
Just make sure you pick the right team. I mean, no one would notice if
you stole (for example) Fenway Park after September 1st, since the Red Sox
never seem to be using it at that time.
(Now, if it was the Baltimore Orioles...)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 17:19:56 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: McAfee
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
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One fight that no one has mentioned:
The whole comic book: DESTROY!
-Mark
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 17:30:58 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Bounced messages (and bounced and bounced and....)
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-- Well ,that was fun. Some 400+ messages saying the same bloody thing.
Who runs that place?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 21:11:51 -0600
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: Help?
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Trevor Barrie wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Todd Hanson wrote:
>
> > a few examples I've used:
> >
> > martial strike: headbutt, punch or forearm
> > martial throw: armdrag, hurricarana (frankensteiner), any number of
> > suplexes
>
> Eh. I know you don't want to get too detailed, but I have difficulty with
> the idea of an armdrag and a hurricarana being mechanically identical.
Why? The name of the maneuver means nothing, the effect is what is
important. In both cases you are throwing your opponent to the mat (although
the hurricarana obviously uses more force, and should probably include the
'you fall' component).
With the character I played, I had a handful of 'generic' moves and called it
whatever I wanted at the time. Wether I was hitting the guy with a 'belly to
belly suplex' or a 'hurricarana', it was still a martial throw with another
name.
Todd
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 22:55:27 -0800
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Bounced message
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Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> >erm... okay, I'm better now.
>
> My count of the total before it stopped is 698.
Well! I seem to have lucked out at a mere 362! :-(
In the "counting our blessings" department, it could have been worse --
much worse. A friend of mine endured an incident a couple of years ago
where the system containing the closed account bounced messages directly
to members of the list (via the cc: header, I guess) *in addition* to the
list server, *and* kept the closed account as the REPLY-TO line.
Begin Redeeming Champions Value Statement:
Clearly, someone took PS: Programmer at the 8- everyman level!
End Redeeming Champions Value Statement.
The predictable result was double the number of messages per unit time,
until the inevitable happened, and some recipients started to overflow
their inboxes. Their systems replied to the REPLY-TO line, as well as to
the listserver, causing two messages back to the closed account, which
sent a message to the full accounts and to the list server....
Final message count was in the thousands, and in only one day!
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
From: "potroast@theoven" <darkwraith@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Huh???
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:33:59 -0600
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I came back online after three days and found 547 messages in my box, what
gives and what are these "bounced messages"
--Potroast
"When you employ a hostageas a shield, pick one big enough to cover your
whole body or a least the parts you like"
John Pascucci
(former US Marshal)
X-Sender: geoff@emerald.omg.org
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:32:06 -0500
From: geoff@omg.org (Geoff Speare)
Subject: Re: TUSV: Locks
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>
>Locks
>
It seems more logical to give the vehicle a skill which opposes the
Lockpicker's attempts to break in. (I'd say Lockpicking, except the vehicle
doesn't go around opening other vehicles. :-) I guess it would be Locking
Skill. To keep things easy, assume the vehicle always rolls an 11, so the
default is that the lockpicker needs a straight roll to break in, -1 for
every +1 the vehicle gets.
Then you can just limit the Skill if it doesn't apply to every lock (that
way, a vehicle with 10 out of 11 doors locked doesn't cost a huge amount)
or however else you want.
This way, you don't need an extra roll, and you aren't creating a new Talent.
Geoff Speare
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 05:50:05 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Characteristics
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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At 05:53 PM 12/3/97 -0400, Trevor Barrie wrote:
>On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> >I'd allow Penetrating PRE. If you got at least 10 "body" on your PRE
>> >dice roll, you'd get at least a PRE+10 result off the chart. That's how
>> >we ran Mind Control: Penetrating.
>>
>> Again, this is nothing like what Penetrating does in the book. If it's
>> how you want to run effect-based Powers as a house rule, then that's
>> different, but by the printed rules Penetrating Mind Control simply has a
>> minimum total effect equal to the amount of BODY rolled on it (and is
>> therefore only useful if it as the Cumulative Advantage also on it).
>
>Cumulative? On Mind Control? Does that really belong in a paragraph
>allegedly describing the by-the-book rules?
See The Ultimate Mentalist, page 77.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
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X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 05:59:18 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Help?
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At 09:11 PM 12/3/97 -0600, Todd Hanson wrote:
>> > martial throw: armdrag, hurricarana (frankensteiner), any number of
>> > suplexes
>>
>> Eh. I know you don't want to get too detailed, but I have difficulty with
>> the idea of an armdrag and a hurricarana being mechanically identical.
>
>Why? The name of the maneuver means nothing, the effect is what is
>important. In both cases you are throwing your opponent to the mat (although
>the hurricarana obviously uses more force, and should probably include the
>'you fall' component).
>
>With the character I played, I had a handful of 'generic' moves and called it
>whatever I wanted at the time. Wether I was hitting the guy with a 'belly to
>belly suplex' or a 'hurricarana', it was still a martial throw with another
>name.
Pardon a guy totally unfamiliar with the genre cutting in here, but it
looks to me like the hurricarana should be a Sacrifice Throw
(+2/+1/STR/Both Fall).
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
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From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Re: TUSV: Locks
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:03:25 -0500
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Geoff said:
>It seems more logical to give the vehicle a skill which opposes the
>Lockpicker's attempts to break in. I guess it would be Locking
>Skill. To keep things easy, assume the vehicle always rolls an 11,
>so the default is that the lockpicker needs a straight roll to break
>n, -1 for every +1 the vehicle gets.
I prefer Geoff's version. This way, a vehicle's locking skill (11- for
free, +1 per +2) is treated the same way that bases treat laboratories.
My 8-man spaceship has locking at 14- (for 6 points), and security
systems at 15- (3 for the base and 8 for the +4). That covers all of the
locks and alarms by default. But on my brig, I add +5 lockpicking and +5
to security systems for 20 points with a -1 limitation that it only
applies to the brig, for 10 points. The limitation value is up to the
GM. If I'm a space cop, and routinely throw criminals in my brig, the
lim might only be a -1/2. If I'll probably only use my brig once a year,
a -2 should be fine.
Dave Mattingly
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 06:03:27 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: TUSV: Locks
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At 03:58 PM 12/3/97 -0800, Richard G Schwerdtfeger wrote:
> Maybe it would just be easier to have a talent give a blanket -3 or 5
> to lockpicking roles, rather than have to buy each minus separately.
> I know that I don't need *that* much detail in my vehicle designs.
You know, sometimes I get these suggestions and feel like a real idiot
-- but not for the reason you probably think.
What you suggest was my first inclination. Then I thought, why should
the design on one Lock affect any of the others? So I wrote the Talent to
cover them individually.
But your last sentence really struck me. There are a lot of GMs like
you, who might want this rule without that level of detail. There should
also be an option to buy the Lockpicking/Security Systems penalty for all
the locks at 2 points per -1.
Duh.
But, of course, that's why I put these things before other people; one
man alone can't come up with everything.
---
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X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 06:10:50 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: TUSV: Locks
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At 06:57 PM 12/3/97 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>BG> However, this special, optional Talent can provide penalties to the
>BG> Skill Roll for purposes of trying to get in, or for purposes of trying
>BG> to start the vehicle. For every point spent in the Talent, those
>BG> trying to break in get a -1 to their Lockpicking or Security Systems
>BG> Roll on one of the two locks.
>
>Just a point, but a lock is only part of the system. Anyone breaking into
>a car bypasses the door and ignition locks, the former with a slim jim, the
>latter with a screwdriver if the ignition wires are inaccessible. The
>former circumvents the keyway, the latter either bypasses it entirely or
>breaks it off.
That is one part of the vehicle theft rules I'm working up that I'm
having trouble with. I don't know that it really belongs with the Locks
talent, though I may change the name to something like "Integrity" and
broaden it.
What you describe, I think, is a little more akin to using Mechanics (or
even PS: Auto Thief) to bypass the lock system. Now, there might be a
penalty to this, which is where the Integrity Talent would come in.
There's another point to this, too, though. These rules aren't intended
for just automobiles; there are also locks and other security systems on
boats, aircraft, and other vehicles as well. (I'm trying to imagine a
group of chop-shoppers hot-wiring a 747.)
---
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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 06:19:36 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: TUSV: Locks
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At 05:31 PM 12/4/97 -0800, Rick Holding wrote:
>I would put some upper limit as to how good the locks are. It would be
>relatively cheap (especially when brought within a vehicle) to buy enough
of a
>bonus to the lock talent to make it effectively impossible to crack.
I've inserted a note that this may be advisable. Most campaigns can
probably do well with a limit of -5.
>This was going to be one of my suggestions to the thread asking what to
put in
>5th edition champions. There are two different skills to defeat locking
>devices but nowhere is it detailed how to MAKE a lock, be it on a vehicle or
>within a base. How much does it cost to have a combination lock on the cell
>door? Two points per lock in the place (windows are free) is useable.
>
>One thing. Do you have to buy the increased effectiveness of the lock
>seperatly or are all locks considered the same?
As I wrote it, the effectiveness is bought separately. Based on
Richard's point, however, I've also added an option of 2 points per -1 on
all locks (and hopefully the palm-shaped welt on my forehead won't take
long to heal).
---
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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:13:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Mikhael Bornstein - AERE/W94 <mbornste@acs.ryerson.ca>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Fights!
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Here are a few suggestions. Hope they help.
On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> Okay, now that people have started to mention their favorite fights, what
> suggestions to people have to make Hero fights move (or work) like this
> fictional fights?
>
> For example: In a lot of martial arts flims the hero (or heroes) will one
> punch his way through the 'popcorn' until he reaches the big boss. In
> Feng Shui they handle this with a system where the mooks are either up or
> down. There is no damage to worry about.
Try to design expendable agents so that the average attack from a
player will knock an agent out. During play, when a player makes a
successful attack roll, assume the agent is knocked out. Only worry
about calculating damage for Lieutenants and Big Bosses.
> Example Two: Ever watch a John Woo gunfight? (See Face/Off, The Killer
> or Hard Boiled). Any suggestions on how to get the characters moving
> around the battle field? I mean people in these fights are leaping
> through windows, over tables, sliding down stairs etc.
Two suggestions:
1. Have the villians do this. When the players find that they are
constantly getting outmaneuvered (geting shot at from behind, ect.) they
will start moving around a lot more. Don't forget to assign OCV or
DCV bonuses for dramatic maneuvers.
2. It helps to give the players a reason to move around. If they have
to capture a certain henchman, or find an item before the villians do,
then they are less likely to hunker down behind some cover.
> How about location? Any ideas on how to get the characters to move from
> one entire local to another? By this I dont mean bouncing around in the
> current fight scene, I'm talking more of the Indiana Jones styled fast
> moving sequence where the characters go from point A to point B to point C
> in a short period of time (usually battling someone at the same time).
Again, the players will usually follow where they villians lead.
> Mega Damage: Cell points his fist and vaporizes a city. Hulk tosses Power
> Man through some skyscrapers. Spidey gets the Capt Universe power and
> punches Hulk into orbit.
>
> Doinng some (or all) of this is Hero System can get might expensive (or
> impossible). Is this a case of differing point values, or should the GM
> just 'wing it' when describing certain types of damage. Would it be out
> of line for the 60 STR brick to pick up a character and toss him *through*
> a building with no damage dice rolled?
Sit down before combat and spend some time looking at what the hero's can
do. Figure out how many wall the brick can punch a villian though on an
average roll and a good roll. Once you have a good feeling for what your
players can do you can make snap judgements in combat and avoid 15
minutes of calculations.
Here are a couple of ways to simulate Mega damage without upping the
point level.
I've played in a campaign where they GM assumed that the entire city was
built from "shoddy materials" and lowered the DEF and BODY of walls and
inanimate objects. It made it much easier to punch people through
multiple walls.
I had another friend who used what he called the tissue paper effect. If
knockback did more than double the DEF+BODY of a wall then you just
ignored the wall like it was tissue paper. Sort of like casual strength.
You could also steal an idea from Mystic Masters where give everone a X2
effect from mystic mental attack. If you wanted heros and villians
getting knocked around the battle field like in comics you could just
give everyone double knockback for free. I've never played this but it
seems workable.
> Finally, any ideas on how to siumlate the fast and furious action of a
> good one-on-one fencing match or martial arts fight? Limit the characters
> time to make descisions? Have a lot of stuff rolled out in advance?
Make the hero's role play the combat. Have them describe their actions i
a lot of detail. Reward surprise maneuvers. Definitely limit the players
time to make decisions. I've found that this heightens the tension and
makes combat more of a role-playing experience and less of a wargaming one.
Snapping, "What do you do?" every time the player's phase comes up will
work wonders.
Again, do your homework. Before your players show up run a mock combat
between teh hero's and villians. That way you'll have a feel for what
both sides can do and you won't have to spend as much time counting dice.
> Feedback appreciated. I'll probably collect everyone's comments annd
> write a Herozine article or something.
>
> ***************************************************************************
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
> * Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
> * Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
> * http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
> * Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
> ***************************************************************************
>
>
Good Luck,
Mikhael
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 07:31:16 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: TUSV: Locks
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
At 08:32 AM 12/4/97 -0500, Geoff Speare wrote:
>>Locks
>
>It seems more logical to give the vehicle a skill which opposes the
>Lockpicker's attempts to break in. (I'd say Lockpicking, except the vehicle
>doesn't go around opening other vehicles. :-) I guess it would be Locking
>Skill. To keep things easy, assume the vehicle always rolls an 11, so the
>default is that the lockpicker needs a straight roll to break in, -1 for
>every +1 the vehicle gets.
This is basically what I've done.
>Then you can just limit the Skill if it doesn't apply to every lock (that
>way, a vehicle with 10 out of 11 doors locked doesn't cost a huge amount)
>or however else you want.
I'm counting all external doors as one [free] Lock for purposes of the
Talent.
>This way, you don't need an extra roll, and you aren't creating a new Talent.
No, I'm creating a new Skill, which is not really any worse (it's just a
matter of what category it goes in).
---
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From: "Todd Hanson" <badtodd@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Help?
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 10:21:11 CST
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Bob says:
>>Why? The name of the maneuver means nothing, the effect is what is
>>important. In both cases you are throwing your opponent to the mat
(although
>>the hurricarana obviously uses more force, and should probably include
the
>>'you fall' component).
>>
>>With the character I played, I had a handful of 'generic' moves and
called it
>>whatever I wanted at the time. Wether I was hitting the guy with a
'belly to
>>belly suplex' or a 'hurricarana', it was still a martial throw with
another
>>name.
> Pardon a guy totally unfamiliar with the genre cutting in here, but
it
>looks to me like the hurricarana should be a Sacrifice Throw
(+2/+1/STR/Both Fall).
It depends on how you intend on using the character. If you intend to
use it in a 'wrestling campaign', then it should include the 'you fall'
component. But (as I had said earlier in the thread), if you intend to
use this as a character in a superhero campaign, then the part about the
wrestler falling should be special effect - you fall, but you hop back
to your feet before anyone can take advantage of your prone position.
If you make the wrestler take the 'you fall' on all of his maneuvers
(which wrestling SHOULD do) then he is going to end every action lying
on the ground and will spend every combat being GMO'd on phase 12.
So, working under the assumption that the wrestler falling is only
special effect - martial throw can be used for ANY move that throws the
opponent to the mat (and does damage to them). (although maybe legsweep
would be more appropriate for some of them).
This is assuming that you want to use existing maneuvers and not build
your own. Many GMs I've played with won't allow players to build their
own moves - way too much opportunity for abuse (this is my full-move,
adds velocity, throws em to the ground, pokes em in the eye move!)
Todd
______________________________________________________
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From: "Sean Pavlish" <pavlish@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Bounced message
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:42:22 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> erm, i've got about 200 of these so far today. . .. anyone else with
> simmilar problems this week?
>
Unfortunately I went to download all these bounced messages and lost my
connection just before I got them all. So, the messages hadn't gotten erased
off my server yet... And, I got to download them a second time...
Yeah!
Sean
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:44:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: Worlds greatest fights
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
Well, since the thread has died, here are the totals:
10 Princess Bride - Inigo Montoya vs The Man in Black
8 Big Trouble in Little China - The final battle sequence
5 Princess Bride - Inigo Montoya vs Count Rugen
3 Blind Fury - Rutger Hauer vs a bunch of barroom toughs (among
others fights)
3 Dragons Forever - Jackie Chan, Samo Hung and Yeung Biao vs Yuen
Wah, Bennie the Jet and a zillion mooks
3 Enter the Dragon - Bruce Lee vs a zillion goons in Mr. Han's
basement
3 Streetfighter II the Animated Movie - Chun Li vs Vega
2 Any Which Way You Can - Clint Eastwood vs. William Smith
2 Appleseed 4 - Deunan Knute vs a bunch of terrorists in a collapsed
building
2 Court Jester - Danny Kaye vs Basil Rathbone
2 Dark Knight Returns - Batman vs Superman
2 Drunken Master II - Jackie Chan vs Ken Lo
2 The Empire Strikes Back - Darth Vader vs. Luke Skywalker
2 Fist of Legend - Jet Li vs "The Killing Machine"
2 Highlander - MacLeod vs Kurgen
2 Jackie Chan's entire career.
2 The Killer - gunfight in the church
2 Kitty Pride/Wolverine limited series - final fight
2 Ladyhawke - Etienne Navarre (Rutger Hauer) vs. Marquet (Ken
Hutchison),
2 Suicide Squad - Batman vs. Rick Flagg
2 They Live - Roddy Piper vs David Keith
2 Wheels on Meals - Jackie Chan vs Bennie the Jet
A Kid from Tibet - Yeun Baio vs Yuen Wah
Ali vs. Foreman, Kinshasa, Zaire
Aliens - Ripley vs the Queen
Avengers #164-166 - Avengers vs. Count Nefaria
Batman #198 - The Batman vs. Ling
Blade of the Immortal - Manji vs Eiku Shizuma
Bob Probert (Detroit Red Wings) vs. Tie Domi (New York Rangers),
Madison Square Garden(?), 1992(?)
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid - The "no rules in a knife
fight" scene
By the Sword - F Murray Abraham vs Eric Roberts
Casino Royale - final fight
Chinese Connection - Bruce vs the Japanese dojo
Daredevil - Daredevil vs Bullseye in the battle that ultimately
left Bullseye paralysed.
DC Comics Presents (early 80s) - Superman vs. the Spectre
The Death of Electra - The fight between the revived Bullseye,
Daredevil and Electra
Demon City Shinjuku - the hero vs the weird thing weith a mouth in
its chest
Desperado - The "It's him!" bar room gunfight
Desert Peach (#2 or #3) - barroom fight
Doctor Strange vs The Hulk.
Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story - fight where Bruce proves he can beat
any man in less than 60 seconds.
Dragon Scroll - fight vs the blind demon in the forest
Dragonball Z Movie 6 - Son Goku (and Vegita) vs Metal Kooler
Dragonheart - Quaid vs Draco
Drunken Master II - Jackie Chan vs the Ax gang
Elementals - Fathom vs Electrocutinoer
Enter the Dragon - Bruce Lee vs Mr. Han
Errol Flynn vs Basil Rathbone
Escape from New York - Snake Pliskin vs. the big gladiator
Everyone Hates Fightman - Fightman vs everbody
Fantastic Four - She-Hulk vs. The Thing
Fantastic Four #134 - Luke Cage vs. the Thing
Fantastic Four 258-260 - The Thing, Johnny Storm, Sue Richards and
Silver Surfer vs Terrax (and Dr. Doom)
Fearless Hyena - chopstick fight
Firestorm (100?) - Firestorm and friends vs. the JLA vs. the
Suicide Squad vs. the Parasite
Full Contact - Chow Yun Fat's knife fight vs some mooks
G. I. Joe: The Movie - Sgt. Slaughter vs one of the villains (I
forget the guy's name)
George of the Jungle - George vs a lion
Gold Digger #29 - Julia and Theodore Diggers vs. the Gneiss'
Sentinel
Grosse Point Blank - John Cuszack vs Dan Aykroyd
Gyokin - The final duel of the two ex-buddies
Hard Boiled - gunfight in the teahouse
Hard Boiled - hospital gunfight
The Hulk (early 80s) - Hulk vs Sasquatch
Hulk #300 - Hulk vs everyone
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom - Indiana Jones vs Indian
Slave Master on the Conveyor Belt
JLA #14 - The assault by the heroes on Darkseid's empire
JLA (current) - JLA vs the Martians
Justice League - Batman vs. Guy Gardner "One Punch!"
Kingdom Come - final battle
LEGION - Lobo v. Vril Dox
Legion of Superheroes - the adult Legion in the
Dominator-Khund-Earth war
Lipton's Tea commercial - David Carradine vs three thugs
Lone Wolf McQuade - Chuck Norris vs one of the Carradines
The Magnificent Seven - final fight
Micronauts #11 - Arcturus Rann vs. Baron Karza
Micronauts #12 - Acroyear vs. Shaitan
Miracleman #1-2 - Miracleman vs. Kid Miracleman
Miracleman #12-13 - Miracleman and crew vs. Kid Miracleman
Monty Python & the Holy Grail - King Arthur vs. the Black Knight
Mortal Kombat - Johnny Cage vs. Scorpion
Mortal Kombat - Liu Kang vs. Reptile
Nemesis the Warlock - Nemesis vs Torquemada
Ninja Scroll - Jubei vs Tessa
Ninja Scroll - Jubei vs Genma
Ninja Scroll - Jubei and Kagero vs Utsutsu
Predator - Arnold vs the Predator
Project A-ko (entier movie)
The Question - any number of fights
Raiders of the Lost Ark - any fight
Raiders of the Lost Ark - Indiana Jones vs Nazi Mechanic
Ranma 1/2 - Ranma vs Ryoga; after Ryoga learned the breaking point
technique.
Ray Harryhausen - multiple fight scenes
Red Sonjia - Arnold vs. Brigitte
Reservoir Dogs - final gunfight
Return of the Dragon - Bruce Lee vs Chuck Norris
Return of the Jedi - Luke Skywalker vs Darth Vader
Rob Roy - Tim Roth's character vs Rob Roy
Robin Hood - Basil Rathbone vs. Errol Flynn
Rocky & Rocky II - Rocky vs Apollo Creed
Secret Wars - Spiderman vs the X-Men
Song of Roland - Roland's last defense
Spiderman - Spiderman vs Firelord
Spider man vs Juggernaut.
Steel Magnolias - Sally Field vs Shirley Maclaine
The Streetfighter - any Sonny Chiba fight
Steven Segal - any film
Suicide Squad - Batman v. Bronze Tiger
Suicide Squad vs. the Justice League
Superman Annual #11 - Superman (and Wonder Woman, Batman & Robin)
vs Mongul
Superman II - Superman vs. the Kryptonian villains
The Sword and the Sorcerer - Talon's bid for freedom after pulling
himself off the crucifiction
Sword of Doom - The fight in the stone-walled road after the
bokken duel
The Tick - The Tick vs Filth
Thor - Thor vs Juggernaught
Three Musketeers - Gene Kelly vs. Cardinal's Guard
The Three/Four Musketeers (1970s versions)
Transformers: The Movie - Optimus Prime vs Megatron
True Romance - Christian Slater vs Gary Oldman
Twinkle, Twinkle Lucky Stars - Samo Hung vs. Richard Norton
Willow - Madmardigan, Willow and a goat vs an army, trolls and a
dragon
Wing Chun - Michelle Yeoh (or Khan) scene (and other movies)
X-Men #205 - Wolverine vs. Lady Deathstrike and her goons
X-Men: Days of Future Past - X-Men vs. the Sentinels
X-Men - X-Men vs the guardians of the M-krann crystal
Xena: Warrior Princess - Xena vs a gang of bounty hunters
Xena: Warrior Princess - a knock down drag out on _top_ of a crowd
of people
WORST
2 Mortal Kombat II - all of them
Kung Fu: The Legend Continues - any Carradine fight scene
GI Joe - Cobra had a pair of twins who felt when the other was
hit. (I don't remember their names). At one point, they fight each other
by punching themselves. Utterly inane.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: TUSV: Locks
Mail-Copies-To: never
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X-Attribution: Rat
Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 04 Dec 1997 12:47:56 -0500
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> "BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
BG> What you describe, I think, is a little more akin to using Mechanics
BG> (or even PS: Auto Thief) to bypass the lock system. Now, there might
BG> be a penalty to this, which is where the Integrity Talent would come
BG> in.
Not really. Using a slim jim is Lockpicking; it is just a different attack
on the door mechanism. The only way to defeat a slim jim is to encase the
entire mechaism in a box so that the tool cannot reach the mechanism. It
is an all or nothing deal, and seldom used except on the most expensive of
cars because, well, if one locks one's only set of keys inside the only way
in at that point is to break a window.
Hotwiring the vehicle... your guess is as good as mine.
Breaking the steering column lock assembly with a screwdriver, or breaking
a window, is a Strength roll.
BG> There's another point to this, too, though. These rules aren't
BG> intended for just automobiles; there are also locks and other security
BG> systems on boats, aircraft, and other vehicles as well. (I'm trying to
BG> imagine a group of chop-shoppers hot-wiring a 747.)
Easier than you might think. The tough part is getting the beast. Once in
the cockpit, assuming you know how to fly one, the rest is easy.
To be suscinct, locks exist to thwart amateurs. Professional thieves will
find a way to bypass whatever security you can devise. For instance, a
local car theft ring allegedly had a slick trick: a flatbed car carrier
with an insulated shell. They'd pull into a lot, pick out a BMW, quickly
hoist it into the shell. The shell was a faraday cage, so it would block
Lojack signals, and it was padded to shut in the sound of the alarm.
They'd drive the truck up into New Hampshire, out of range of the Lojack
transmitter, and chop up the car (after disconnecting the battery, thus
power to the alarm). I say "allegedly" because when the ring was busted a
few years ago the truck was never recovered.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Baseball in Hero (was Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?)
Mail-Copies-To: never
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Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade
Date: 04 Dec 1997 12:51:55 -0500
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>>>>> "TB" == Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net> writes:
>> One does *NOT* use Hero combat to simulate a baseball game.
TB> But if the system works well, you should be _able_ to and expect
TB> semi-reasonable results.
It does, and you can. But a baseball game is not a fight, so you should
not use the combat rules of the system. If you do, you are not going to
get semi-reasonable results.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
\
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:30:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Fight scenes
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, qts wrote:
> All this talk about fight scenes leads me to a question:
>
> Can anyone cite a fight scene funnier than those in Braveheart which is
> NOT deliberately funny?
Blake's 7 was a great show plagued by the BBC's low budget effects.
Typically, fights on the show tended to look like a bunch of out of shape
actors pretending to shoot or hit one another. On one particular episode,
though, (I don't remember the title) they clearly splurged for some
stuntmen. At first, the action is an exciting surprise for B7. But
evidently they decided to get their money's worth on those stuntmen,
because soon enough the combatants are leaping down small cliffs for no
particular reason. They finally got decent stuntwork on the show, and they
didn't know how to use it.
Obligatory Champions Reference: This is not unlike several beginning Hero
players I've seen getting used to combat maneuvers. I recall one player
who used to Brace and Set in the middle of a brawl for no reason other
than the fact that he could.
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 13:45:26 -0600
From: Alex Rojas <rojasa@uthscsa.edu>
Subject: RE: Waste of bandwith Question #1
X-Sender: rojasa@arwen.uthscsa.edu
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A couple of my favorite fight scenes:
Marvel Fanfare #17
The Hulk vs The Blob, and Unus the Untouchable. That was cool because
it made Unus and the Blob to be real people, and good friends. Plus it had
the Irrisistable Force, and Immovable object thing going. Too bad the Hulk
has both :)
Fantastic Four #249 and #250
Big fight with Gladiator, FF, Spider-Man, Captain America, and some
X-Men/Skrull. Really big fight, lots of damage.
Squadron Supreme #12
It was one of the first comics I had read where some super-heroes
died. Very realistic super-hero combat. I liked the whole 12 part
mini-series.
Elementals #11
This was a pretty mean fight, sometimes I like that they made the
whole thing in verse, sometimes it's annoying. The fight is pretty cool
though.
Amazing Spider-Man #269 and #270
Spider-Man vs Firestorm (My mind blanked out, I think that's his name.
The guy with the staff and he was a herald of Galactus). It's usually
annoying when Spider-man keeps saying, "Oh, I can't beat this guy..." and
then goes and beats him. But this fight was still good. Shows what a High
Dex will do for you :)
Alex
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: RE: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:33:51 -0500
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Alex mentioned Amazing Spider-Man #269 and #270: Spidey versus Fire
Lord.
I completely agree. That was one of my favorite Spideys ever.
Another good Spidey fight was against The Spot in Peter Parker the
Spectacular Spiderman #98-100.
The Spot is a portal-type teleporter with no other abilities. He makes
lots of holes in reality all around Spidey and punches him from them
repeatedly (think Indirect Stretching). But since he's a normal guy,
Spidey barely even notices. Great comedy fight.
A good "power stunt" use of special effects was in New Warriors #2 when
they were fighting Terrax.
Marvel Boy, the telekinetic, theorized that the colored disks that
constantly surround Speedball, the bouncing boy, must have some mass and
velocity associated with them. So he catches Speedball in mid-leap with
a telekinetic entangle, and lets Speedball's disks bounce each other on
the walls until the tension was great enough to burst the TK bubble.
Marvel Boy then aimed the exploding Speedball and Speed-balls at Terrax,
to great effect.
Dave Mattingly
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:34:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: Mage: Introduction
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Well, I finished my adaptions of the Mage cast to Hero. I'll post the
heroes today, the bad guys tomorrow.
MAGE - THE HERO DISCOVERED
INTRODUCTION
_Mage - the Hero Discovered_ is a fantastic 15 issue Arthurian 'romance',
written and illustrated by Matt Wagner. Matt has stated that the idea
behind _Mage_ was to examine the nature of the "Hero that lies within us
all...".
_Mage_ was originally published in 1984 by Comico. Recently, it has been
made available in a three volume set from Donning-Starblaze Graphics.
Just this year, Wagner's long-awaited sequel, _Mage II - The Hero Defined_
was released by Image Comics. I strongly recommend both series.
Before proceeding further, I'd like to point out that all the information
presented below is drawn from the original _Mage_ series. _Mage II_
presents a number of concepts that, in my opinion, don't quite match up
with impression I received while reading _Mage_. For starters, Kevin
seems to be physically weaker, while the bat grants him a greater range of
powers. There is also the matter of all the other 'heroic' incarnations
(Hercules, Coyote, Prester John), as well as the various 'nasties'. Of
course, there is that face that _Mage II_ does occur a number of years
after _Mage_ itself.
THE WORLD OF MAGE
The world of _Mage_ is our world. The time is now, and as far as can be
determined, the past histories of both our universe and the one in _Mage_
are the same. Of course, this similarity is only on the surface.
Central to the world of _Mage_ is an eternal struggle between the forces
of light and dark, good and evil. This battle has been waged many times,
with neither side ever gaining the upper hand for long. Central to this
battle is a being known as The Fisher King. The Fisher King is a living
embodiment of all that is good in man, and is very difficult to find. The
forces of Darkness require the Fisher King's blood to enact a ritual to
weaken the forces of Light for a time. This ritual has been enacted
before; Mirth states that China's Warring States period, the increasingly
decadent reigns of Rome's Caesars' and the two World Wars resulted from
this spell being cast.
The city that _Mage_ take place in is never named or specified. Much like
Kevin himself, who is pretty much an 'everyman', the city could be
anywhere. The city is located in America (that much we can determine,
thanks to the American football field and Edsel's Edsel), and I get the
impression that it is an Eastern City. The city looks to be rather large,
with a subway system and a sports stadium.
The Styx Casino
The Styx is the lair of the Umbra Sprite and his sons. It is a tower
skyscraper, at least 20 stories in height. The building has a casino
located on the ground floor and keeps to a 'devilish' theme (the waitress
all wear red costumes reminiscent of the Playboy bunny outfit).
Internally, the Styx seems to defy the laws of physics and spatial
relationships. An elevator taken down opens on a twentieth floor office;
there is an apparently bottomless pit running down the center of the
casino, and the pit looks to lie both _within_ and _around_ an office next
to it. Finally, there are 'doorways' within the Styx that allow passage
between various portions of the building with crossing the intervening
space.
THE CAST
The main characters in _Mage_ are drawn primarily from Arthurian
mythology, while almost all of the have their origins in Celtic myth.
Here I offer a brief listing of the major and minor characters. See the
individual character sheets for more information.
Cromm Cruich (The Worm of the Mists): Cromm Cruich is a dragon... a very
large and fearsome dragon. He has two forms. The first is that of a man
who is easily seven feet tall or more. This form is dark skinned and
slightly oriental looking, with long black tied into a tight braid and red
eyes with vertical pupils. He is exceedingly strong and can breath great
gouts of flame. His other form is of an immense toad-like dragon, gray
skinned, with a short neck and a long tail. As a dragon, he looks to be
about 100' feet long. In his dragon form, Cromm Cruich is served by 13
ravens, or as he calls them, 'squires'. Cromm Cruich's name can be
translated as 'bloody bent one', a term he uses to describe himself.
A suggested character sheet would give the human form a STR of 30, a COM
of 8 and a PRE of 30+. He should have at least a 12d6 EB (or a 4d6 RKA)
with the "Beam" limitation (and possibly "Cannot half-move and attack"
(-1/4)) and Life Support: Immune to aging. The dragon form is... huge and
should be built accordingly.
The Fisher King: The Fisher King is described as a living embodiment of
all that is good in mankind. He is hard to find, for as Mirth points out
"Think how much harder it is to notice a person's good points...", not to
mention having the ability to change his shape. But, regardless of what
shape he takes, the King is always lame.
Gog Magog: Gog is a giant. He stands about 12' tall (or more) with a long
shaggy beard and thick black hair. He dresses in boots and a loincloth
made from skins. Gog Magog lives in a tunnel behind Cromm Cruich's lair
and challenges anyone who passes to 'tumble'.
A suggested character sheet should have a STR of 50+ and enough Growth to
make him more than twice as tall as a large man. Depending on the GM's
desires, Gog Magog can have either several moves from the Wrestling
Martial Art, or a number of HTH combat levels.
Grackleflint: The five grackleflint bothers (Emil, Lazlo, Piet, Radu &
Stanis) are the sons of the Umbra Sprite.
Kevin Matchstick: An incarnation of the Hero, Kevin was once known as King
Arthur.
Leanhaun Sidhe: This creature is a female Faerie vampire. They seduce men
with their hypnotic voices and drink their blood.
Marhault Ogre: This huge Faerie resident is a creature "...from Kevin's...
other life!". It stands at least 60' tall and looks like a shaggy-furred
monkey with a hairless head with bright red skin. The creature doesn't
have much in the way of resistant defenses, as Kevin beats it into a
bloody pulp with a length of pipe.
A suggested character sheet could have a STR of 70 or more, as well as
enough Growth to make him as tall as a football field goal post. Its COM
would be negligible and it should have the Physical Lim of "Doesn't
speak".
Mirth: The World Mage, Mirth is a powerful wizard and Kevin's advisor
Redcap: These are short, nasty Faerie denizens that get their name from
their habit of dipping their hats in human blood.
Rhiannon's Bane: This is a huge, seemingly disembodied arm that spouts out
of walls and ceiling of the Styx. It has a STR of 50 or more and is
probably best treated as a focused form of Indirect TK.
The Umbra Sprite: The name literally means 'Dark Spirit'. He is an
incarnation of evil and a powerful sorcerer. I didn't create a character
sheet for the Umbra Sprite mainly because he is a "GM's special" who's
main purpose is to summon the creatures that oppose the PCs (ie. Kevin and
co).
The Umbra Sprite is a powerful sorcerer, with the ability to summon all
sorts of creatures from the Faerie lands to do his bidding. He is also
capable of casting more 'traditional' spells and is seen throwing blasts
of energy, flying and using telekinesis to move a body about; he also
seems to possess great physical strength . The Sprite is fairly tall,
with white hair and a face perpetually covered in shadow. Originally, he
was thin, with broad shoulders and a narrow waist. By the end of the
series, he is fat and bloated and never leaves his chair. The Sprite is
always seen dressed in a red pin-striped suit.
A suggested character sheet for the Umbra Sprite would have a high STR,
INT, EGO and PRE. His COM is variable, depending on whether or not he has
assumed his 'public' form. He should have a large sorcery VPP with the
advantages of "No Time" and "No Skill Roll". Finally, he should have the
Summoning Power with the "Limited Group" advantage. For disadvantages he
should have DF: Evil Spirit, Psych: Overconfidence (or Psych:
Underestimates his opposition) and Psych: Hunting Mirth.
MAGIC
Mirth describes magic as a river, swift and restless. Anyone who wishes
to use magic must then dip into its depths. The color of the river is
then altered depending on the nature of the magic performed. Green is
pure magic, the color of the river before it is altered by others. As the
World Mage, this green magical energy flows through Mirth. He doesn't
have to 'dip' into it, he is the source of magic in the world.
On the other hand, Mirth has this to say about the Umbra Sprite; "The
Umbra Sprite is a powerful force. He has learned to hold his head above
the waters, even as he dips his foul bucket. He sees me [Mirth] at the
river's mouth, and he has been sending others to find us."
There look to be no real rules regarding the nature of magic in the _Mage_
universe. Other then green, no other colors are described (although the
Umber Sprite's magic all seems to have a red color to it). About the only
constant is the use of Gestures to cast spells.
FAERIES
In _Mage_, faerie is a generic term for a wide variety of extradimensional
creatures. They hail from a connected series of planes called the 'Faerie
Lands'. Travel to and from the lands can be very difficult and summoning
something from there even more so. All Faeries are inherently magical
creatures, but have no real set form or shape (other than a tendency for
humanoid appearance). About the only major rule concerning the faerie is
that they will vanish from this world when destroyed (not necessarily
killed). GMs may to apply this rule when ever the faerie in question is
reduced to -31 Stun (or 0 Body).
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:38:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Kevin Matchstick
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Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
I posted this write-up to the list sometime ago, but i'm reposting it for
completeness sake. Note, I did rewrite some of the sheet, lowering
Kevin's STR by a bit.
KEVIN LINDBERGH MATCHSTICK
Designers Notes:
Kevin Matchstick is the primary character of Matt Wagner's fantastic 15
issue Arthurian legend _Mage - The Hero Discovered_. In the course of the
series, Kevin discovers that he is an aspect of the Hero (an eternal
ideal), "...the Pendragon who was once called Arthur..." and that he has a
part to play in the eternal battle between darkness and light (whether he
wants to or not). According to Matt Wagner, this examination of the "Hero
that lies within us all" will be continued in _Mage II - The Hero Defined_
and _Mage III - The Hero Denied_.
In the course of the story, Kevin gains a number of unusual allies: Mirth,
the World Mage, who first activates Kevin's power and acts as his advisor;
Edsel, who comes bearing a baseball bat and drives her namesake; and Sean,
who is a ghost who has forgotten he has died.
Kevin is also opposed by a number of enemies: numerous redcaps (short,
nasty creatures that dye their caps in human blood - hence the name); a
leanhaun sidhe (an Irish 'vampire' and patron of poets); the Marhault
Ogre; Cromm Cruich, the Worm of the Mists (a dragon); Gog Magog, a giant;
the five Grackleflint brothers (Emil, Lazlo, Piet, Radu & Stanis) and
their father, the Umbra Sprite.
Description:
Kevin is a big man, standing over 6 feet in height, very broad and
strongly built. He has black hair and a full beard. Towards the end of
the series, his hair has grown long enough to fall to his shoulders. In
Kevin's last appearance (so far), he has lost the beard and his hair falls
past his shoulders.
Kevin has no set costume per say, usually he dresses in jeans, sneakers,
and a black t-shirt with a white, Captain Marvel-styled, lightning bolt
emblazoned on it. Kevin wears shirts like this *all* the time, at one
point he had one on *under* his tuxedo.
Excalibur appears as a white glowing baseball bat.
Powers Notes:
As a hero, Kevin's powers are quite basic. He is extraordinarily strong
and able to endure a great deal of physical abuse without suffering any
harm. His exact strength level was hard to determine, as he never really
lifted anything large. The best clue came in the panel after he defeated
the dragon, Cromm Cruich. Bending down, Kevin flips the dragon over using
only one arm. As the dragon looked to easily be 100' long (about the same
size and mass as a Blue Whale), I decided an 65 STR seemed about right.
The bat was a more difficult problem. Making it a focused form of Hand
Attack would lead to enormous amounts of damage potential. Although the
bat is a very *effective* weapon in Kevin's hands, it did have it's
limits. Looking at the bat's over all effect (inflicting damage on even
the toughest of targets,) made me decide that making it a focused Armor
Piercing advantage was the best course of action. Note: if you feel this
is a rules violation, then redesign it as 'x'-dice of Hand Attack, 0 END,
at what ever power level feels right to you.
Kevin is very tough. At one point Mirth informs him that a 20 story drop
would "... only hurt the sidewalk." He has been run over by trains,
fallen down elevator shafts, dropped large distances, dragged behind cars
and otherwise survived large amounts of abuse with no real lasting
effects. His only real weakness is magic, especially that which affects
the mind.
Kevin's background is never explored to any degree, making him to be sort
of an 'everyman'. I included some likely skills based of sequences from
the series. GMs should fill in what they want based on their desired
character image.
"Does Not Exist (no ID)" means just that. Kevin no longer exists in a
legal sense. There is no trace of him... _anywhere_.
Disadvantages Notes:
As noted, Kevin wears his trademark t-shirt _everywhere_.
His heroic aura can only be seen by certain people. They will recognize
Kevin for what he really is, and most likely help him. This aura is also
easily seen by certain agents of Darkness, who will often dispose of
anyone trying to help Kevin (as well as attacking Kevin directly).
He is hunted by numerous evil creatures, which recognize his aura.
Although Kevin destroyed the Umber Sprite and most of his followers in the
course of "Mage", there are still other beings out there.
Kevin's personality is a difficult thing to quantify. For most of the
book, he tries not to accept what is happening around him. Latter, he
tries to avoid responsibility for his actions, stating, in effect, he was
'forced' to do them. Eventually, he begins to accept his new life, or at
least his mission. To be honest, I recommend picking up the collected
"Mage" volumes for the full insight to Kevin's character.
Since I am presenting the 'post-bat' Kevin, I kept the "Unsure of self,
bouts of self-doubt", psych lim, as he still expressed some of that. He
also has a dislike of killing, but has accepted that some deaths are
necessary and unavoidable (as Mirth said "This is a war we are
fighting..."). He is irresistible drawn to the Struggle and will
participate, like it or not (when asked to let go of the bat, he
responded, "You know I cannot, it is too sweet..."). On the other hand,
his powers only serve the Struggle and won't really protect him from minor
non-threatening injuries (like getting a splinter in his hand). As Mirth
put it once: "Remaining free to continue your quest would've served the
Struggle. Proving yourself to your cell-mates did not."
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 65 55
Dex 15 15
Con 35 50
Body 20 20
Int 10 0
Ego 11 2
Pre 15 5
Com 12 1
PD 40 27
ED 30 23
Spd 4 15
Rec 20 0
End 70 0
Stun 70 0
Char Total 213
Power Total 216
Total Cost 429
COST POWERS & SKILLS
50 Armor Piercing on STR (up to 20d6), 0 END, OAF: Bat (Excalibur)
16 1/2 END on STR, 3 END
35 Full Damage Resistance
10 +20 PRE, Defense Only (-1)
2 Running: +1" (7" total / 14" noncombat), 1 END
55 Superleap: +37" (50"/25"), 0 END
2 AK: Local City 11-
7 Climbing 14-
3 Disguise 11-
4 KS: Creatures of Faerie 13-
1 TF: Ground Vehicles
1 Lang: French
10 Perk: Does Not Exist (no ID)
20 CSL: +4 with HTH
Disadvantages
100 Base
5 DF: T-shirt (black with a white lightning bolt)
10 DF: Heroic Aura (not conc, noticed - limited group)
20 Hunted: Assorted agents of Darkness (varies)
5 Phys: Powers don't work for self-gain
20 Phys: Drawn to the Struggle
15 Psych: Fear of Heights (vertigo)
15 Psych: Protective of his friends and allies
10 Psych: Unsure of self, bouts of self-doubt
10 Psych: Suffers bouts of single-mindedness
219 Hero Bonus
(Kevin Matchstick created by Matt Wagner, character sheet created by
Michael Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:43:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Mirth
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MIRTH
(Myrddin Auerelius Ambrosius)
Designers Notes:
Mirth is the Mage to Kevin Matchstick's Hero. He is the World Mage, and
the source of all the magic that flows through this world. Mirth is also
Merlin to Kevin's Arthur and does his best to guide Kevin as advisor and
teacher.
Mirth remembers *all* his past lives, and recognizes all of the major
characters in the series for what they are and the roles they are to play.
He knows that Edsel is fated to die from the moment he meets her, just
like he knows that Kevin must take up the bat and assume the mantle of the
hero if the current battle with the Umbre Sprite is to be won.
Description:
Mirth is of average height, with a thin but strong build. He has black
hair that hands down over his face in front, but is cut short in back.
His normal costume is of a black body suit with a tank top, white leg
wrappings and a blue serape-styled cloak.
Powers Notes:
As the World Mage, Mirth can juggle the magical energy of this world
easily. Since pure magic is green, and Mirth is the source off pure
magic, all his powers have green effects, such as bubbles, flat green
disks, green bolts of energy, etc. His powers are virtually limitless;
during the series he exhibits Healing, Flight, Teleportation (with a mass
multiple), Extra-dimensional movement (on a whole car), Desolidification,
Entangles, Instant Change (usable on others), Energy Blasts, a Triggered
Energy Blast, Illusions, Mind Control, Force Wall, Telekinesis...
One of Mirth's more useful powers is his mystical sight. This sight warns
him of dangerous events as they happen, both to him and people near him
(as well as people that he should protect). The only problem is that 'the
Sight' can be very painful when it hits, more than once doubling Mirth
(and Sean Knight) over in pain.
Disadvantages Notes:
As the World Mage, Mirth is very visible to those who know what to look
for. Thus, he is hunted by the Umbra Sprite, who believes that Mirth is
his main opponent and should be eliminated as soon as possible.
Although Mirth commands a great deal of power, true offensive powers seem
to be very draining. Any offensive attack he makes looks to drain Mirth's
ability to throw any further attacks for some time. This doesn't stop him
from using his pool for other powers (such as defensive shields, or fixing
Kevin's tattered clothing).
Mirth is also missing his legs. His leg wrappings allow him to walk and
move normally (via a powerful spell), but is they are disrupted or
damaged, his is virtually helpless.
As Kevin's advisor, Mirth has a number of great responsibilities. He is
sworn to uphold the side of good, and is drawn to the struggle with an
almost visible excitement. Mirth also knows all that has happened before
(at least, as it relates to him and Kevin), and slowly informs Kevin of
needed facts as the situation warrants. This infuriates Kevin who feels
that he is being led about by Mirth, and not advised. On the other hand,
Mirth doesn't always remember everything he needs to in time and may miss
a point here and there.
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 13 3
Dex 15 15
Con 20 30
Body 10 0
Int 23 13
Ego 24 28
Pre 20 10
Com 14 2
PD 8 5
ED 8 4
Spd 4 15
Rec 8 2
End 50 5
Stun 30 3
Char Total 135
Power Total 316
Total Cost 451
COST POWERS & SKILLS
75 75 Point Variable Power Pool: Sorcery
89 VPP Control Cost: No Skill Roll Needed, No Time, Gestures (-1/4)
24 Danger Sense: 14-, Any Attack, General Area (city wide), Side
Effect: 6d6 EB
(stun only) (-1/2)
30 Clairsentience: Sight and Hearing, Range 7200", Precognition, 0
END, Linked
to Danger Sense (-1/2), No Conscious Control (-2)
52 Extra-Dimensional Movement: The "Faerie Realms", 0 END, Trigger
(if loses
consciousness) (+1/4)
10 Eidetic Memory
3 AK: The Faerie Lands 14-
3 Conversation 13-
3 Deduction 14-
3 High Society 13-
2 KS: History (especially of 'The Struggle') 14-
2 KS: Magic 14-
2 KS: Magical Creatures (aka Faeries) 14-
2 KS: Myths and Legends 14-
3 Oratory 13-
3 Persuasion 13-
5 Stealth 13-
2 TF: Cars, Sail Craft
3 Scholar
Disadvantages
100 Base
10 DF: Magic Aura (unconcealable, noticed - limited group)
20 Hunted: The Umbra Sprite and his minions (Aspow) 14-
15 Phys: Offensive use of his powers can be very draining
5 Phys: No Legs
20 Psych: "I decide what to tell you."
20 Psych: Sworn to uphold the Good
10 Psych: "So much to remember..."
251 World Mage Bonus
(Mirth created by Matt Wagner, Character sheet created by Michael
Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:45:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Edsel
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EDSEL
Designers Notes:
Edsel is the Lady of the Lake to Mirth's Merlin. She recognizes Kevin for
who he is immediately, calling him 'my lord' and referring to herself as
his 'most humble and loyal servant'. At first she insists that Kevin
should be told everything, until Mirth reminds of the danger this would
present. He does tell her that "when the time comes for him to know, you
will be the cause of it!". Unfortunately, this cause is her death.
Description:
Edsel is a young, slim and dark skinned with shoulder-length curly black
hair. She normally dresses in jeans, a black tank-top and purple gloves,
boots, cap and jacket.
Powers Notes:
Edsel doesn't have an real powers. She has a 1957 Corsair model Edsel and
a baseball bat she keeps on the floor. Mirth 'enchants' this weapon,
resulting in a bright green magic baseball bat that gives Edsel power
"...similar to a cattle-prod...". Later, Kevin picks up the bat, breaking
the spell and revealing the weapon to be Excalibur.
Edsel's main ability is courage. She tackles the Marhault Ogre armed with
just her bat, fights Grackleflints, Redcaps and Leanhaun Sidhe, and is
even ready to toe-to-toe with the Umbre Sprite himself. As Mirth says:
"She was so very brave this time..." The Umbre Sprite comments: "Your
courage grows with each life you lead...".
It is apparent from Edsel's comments that she is a capable auto mechanic,
and has fixed up her car so only she can really get it started.
Disadvantages Notes:
Since she's a minor, Edsel is pursued (to an extent) by her parents.
Fortunately for her, Sean Knight is a Public Defender and can quietly
loose runaway reports for her. As a minor, there are certain places Edsel
can't (or shouldn't) go. A prime example is the Styx Casino.
Edsel is devoted to two things, her car and Kevin. She will leap in to
save (or aid) him, regardless of the situation. At one point she states:
"It was my d--... De-lightful pleasure. 'Nuthin like a good scrap."
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 10 0
Dex 17 21
Con 13 6
Body 10 0
Int 15 5
Ego 13 6
Pre 13 3
Com 16 3
PD 4 2
ED 4 1
Spd 3 3
Rec 5 0
End 26 0
Stun 23 0
Char Total 50
Power Total 40
Total Cost 90
COST POWERS & SKILLS
13 +6d6 Hand Attack, 0 END, OAF: Magical baseball bat
5 +10 Presence, Defensive only (-1)
2 AK: Local City 11-
1 Electronics 8-
2 KS: Auto Mechanics 11-
3 Mechanics 11-
3 Streetwise 12-
1 TF: Small Ground Vehicles
1 WF: Club weapons
4 CSL: +2 OCV with bat
5 CSL: +1 with HTH
Disadvantages
50+ Base
5 Hunted, her parents (Aspow, Lim Geo, Mild) 11-
10 Phys: Youth (she's almost 18)
20 Psych: Devoted follower of Kevin Matchstick
5 (15) Psych: Reckless
0 (10) Psych: Very protective of her car
0 Lady of the Lake Bonus
(Edsel created by Matt Wagner, Character sheet created by Michael
Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:48:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Sean Knight
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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SEAN KNIGHT
Designer's Notes:
Sean is a ghost that has forgotten he has died. He died of a gas leak in
the late 50s in fact, but never really noticed, carrying on his life like
he always had. Currently, he is a public defender, and his position
within the city's police department allows him invaluable access needed
information in Kevin's war wit the Umbre Sprite.
Description:
Sean is tall and thin, with short blonde hair and glasses. His typical
clothing consists of dress pants, white shirt and tie.
Powers Notes:
Sean has a number of powers available to him due to his existence as a
ghost. As Mirth states: "...your mind no longer uses the normal
electromagnetic impulses it's been used to... you have a certain amount of
control over electrical impulses, you're somewhat of an empty battery."
Thus his VPP of powers. He can pick up a light bulb and make it light up
At one point he breaks a lamp and puts his fingers in the empty socket,
sending an electrical charge into his attacker. Naturally, Sean can walk
through walls, he can also bring someone with him, and at one point leans
through a wall to catch someone on the other side. He also can exude
'fear', simple by concentration on being scary. Finally, he has a
tendency to wander into the faire realms without realizing it, at least a
first. He seems to get this power under control later in the series.
Disadvantages Notes:
As a ghost, Sean is slowly loosing control of the electrical impulses of
his brain. He can't remember very much about his past, and his memory
eventually degrades to the point where he can't remember any recent events
(unless prompted).
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 10 0
Dex 13 9
Con 15 10
Body 10 0
Int 18 8
Ego 21 22
Pre 10 0
Com 10 0
PD 4 2
ED 4 1
Spd 3 7
Rec 6 2
End 30 0
Stun 23 0
Char Total 61
Power Total 357
Total Cost 418
COST POWERS & SKILLS
40 40 Point Variable Power Pool: Ghost Powers
40 VPP Control Cost: No Skill Roll Needed, No Time, Limited SFX:
Electrical effects only (-1/2)
150 Desolidification (includes mental powers), Invisible Power Effects
- Sight, Usable by one other (+1/2), 0 END
20 STR Can Affect Solid
11 +30 PRE, Costs END (-1/2), Fear based PRE attacks only (-1),
Concentrate: 1/2 DCV (-1/4)
21 Danger Sense: 14-, Any Attack, Immediate vicinity, Side Effect:
6d6 EB
(stun only) (-1/2)
30 After Life Support: Full
15 Extra-Dimensional Movement: The "Faerie Realms", 0 END, No
Conscious Control
1 Perk: Lawyer
3 Bureacratics 11-
3 Conversation 11-
3 Deduction 13-
1 Gambling 8-
3 KS: Law 13-
3 PS: Lawyer/Public Defender 13-
3 Oratory 11-
3 Tactics 13-
1 WF: Pistol
6 SL: +2 with all PRE skills
Disadvantages
100 Base
10 DF: Ghost (not conc, noticed - limited group)
20 Phys: Loosing his memory, at times can forget even the most recent
of events
20 Psych: Dedicated to aiding and defending Kevin Matchstick
15 Psych: Protective of the Innocent
5 Psych: Not fully comfortable with his status
248 Defender Bonus
(Sean Knight created by Matt Wagner, Character sheet created by Michael
Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 16:57:44 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Re: RE: Waste of bandwidth Question #1
X-VMS-To: IN%"champ-l@omg.org"
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The second series Elements #11 definitely has to be in my
top 5. Vortex being impaled by a telenetically thrown spike, having to
pull himself off it, stuffing his entrails back into place, Morningstar
being crushed under Monolith's earthen body, and Fathom reforming herself
from puddles are highlights. As well as Thor kicking the crap out of
fat TK villian Floater, and getting kis arse kicked by Holocust in an
all out slugfest.
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
From: "Guy Hoyle the Ineffable" <ghoyle1@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:02:09 +0000
Subject: Re: Unusual Fight Settings for Pulp Campaign
Reply-to: ghoyle1@airmail.net
Priority: normal
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X-UID: 4
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:23:55 -0700
> From: Ryan J Franklin <franklir@U.Arizona.EDU>
> rolling. On trains--especially if you can leap from roof to roof of the
> cars on a speeding train, with lots of tunnels ahead and maybe even a
> bridge that's been blown up.
Hmm. What game mechanics can I bring into play here? Climbing and DEX
rolls are all obvious. Penalties to fight skills, surprise maneuvers?
----------------------------------
Guy Hoyle (guyhoyle@iname.com)
http://web2.airmail.net/ghoyle1/
Visit The Gamemaster's Bookshelf
and the PANGAEA Project!
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:16:46 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Baseball in Hero (was Re: Writing Up Yourself how good is good?)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Trevor Barrie wrote:
>
> On 3 Dec 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> > DM> I agree that the pitcher isn't just aiming at a hex. But he's not aiming
> > DM> for the glove, either. He's aiming for the strike zone, which is about
> > DM> 1/4 man-sized, so I'd give it a 3 (hex) + 4 (shrinking) = 7 DCV.
> >
> > Sigh.
> >
> > One does *NOT* use Hero combat to simulate a baseball game.
>
> But if the system works well, you should be _able_ to and expect
> semi-reasonable results.
Besides, just because it CAN be done by two simple dice rolls doesn't mean you
can't do it like a full on combat if thats what you want.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:31:53 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: TUSV: Locks
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-- Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> Here's a little something that just occurred to me, and I typed it into
> my manuscript for TUSV this morning. I'd like to see what people think.
> (It's been placed under Talents, for lack of a better category.)
>
> Locks
>
> By default, every vehicle has doors that lock, and an ignition that
> locks. Each of these may be either a physical lock that uses a key, and
> which requires the Lockpicking Skill to bypass, or an electronic lock that
> uses a number combination, and which requires the Security Systems Skill to
> get past. In both cases the Skill Roll for overcoming the lock without the
> key is unmodified.
> However, this special, optional Talent can provide penalties to the
> Skill Roll for purposes of trying to get in, or for purposes of trying to
> start the vehicle. For every point spent in the Talent, those trying to
> break in get a -1 to their Lockpicking or Security Systems Roll on one of
> the two locks. (If the vehicle has a computer with Skills that would
> oppose the character trying to use Lockpicking or Security Systems, then
> this Talent simply adds to the Skill Roll for purposes of the one lock.)
> Optionally, a vehicle's trunk (cargo space) may be considered a separate
> Lock, and must be overcome separately.
> Note that, while the exterior, ignition, and optional trunk Locks are
> freebies, a separate Lock must be purchased if the designer wants some
> other level of security. For example, a player may want the control panel
> for the vehicle's weapons to have a lock. Such a lock costs 2 points (per
> lock) just to have it locked up, plus 1 point per -1 to the necessary
> Lockpicking or Security Systems Roll.
>
> My logic for the costs is this: Even though each point is like buying a
> Skill Level with Lockpicking (or whatever skill), which would normally cost
> 2 points per +/-1, it seemed rather excessive to charge 2 points for just
> one set of locks, and it didn't seem logical to charge a blanket cost for
> all locks on the vehicle.
> The 2 points per additional Lock is because 1 point per +1 is only
> available for Background Skills, so I decided to structure a Lock like a
> Background Skill that just doesn't use a Roll.
> Any feedback would be welcome.
> ---
> Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
> Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
I would put some upper limit as to how good the locks are. It would be
relatively cheap (especially when brought within a vehicle) to buy enough of a
bonus to the lock talent to make it effectively impossible to crack.
This was going to be one of my suggestions to the thread asking what to put in
5th edition champions. There are two different skills to defeat locking
devices but nowhere is it detailed how to MAKE a lock, be it on a vehicle or
within a base. How much does it cost to have a combination lock on the cell
door? Two points per lock in the place (windows are free) is useable.
One thing. Do you have to buy the increased effectiveness of the lock
seperatly or are all locks considered the same?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
X-Sender: geoff@emerald.omg.org
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:38:01 -0500
From: geoff@omg.org (Geoff Speare)
Subject: Re: TUSV: Locks
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>>Just a point, but a lock is only part of the system. Anyone breaking into
>>a car bypasses the door and ignition locks, the former with a slim jim, the
>>latter with a screwdriver if the ignition wires are inaccessible. The
>>former circumvents the keyway, the latter either bypasses it entirely or
>>breaks it off.
>
> That is one part of the vehicle theft rules I'm working up that I'm
>having trouble with. I don't know that it really belongs with the Locks
>talent, though I may change the name to something like "Integrity" and
>broaden it.
It seems to me that the above actions are part of the skill of breaking
into a car (which I suppose is PS: Auto Theft; an expert lockpicker might
not know this stuff and be stuck breaking in the hard way). I guess you
could call this a limitation on the locks.
> There's another point to this, too, though. These rules aren't intended
>for just automobiles; there are also locks and other security systems on
>boats, aircraft, and other vehicles as well. (I'm trying to imagine a
>group of chop-shoppers hot-wiring a 747.)
I'd imagine that anyone skilled in breaking into a particular real-life
vehicle would know ways of doing it really fast, unless the vehicle was
engineered to be difficult to break into. I can't imagine there are too
many 747 hot-wire artists, but I'm sure there are plenty for boats.
Geoff Speare
X-Sender: geoff@emerald.omg.org
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:38:08 -0500
From: geoff@omg.org (Geoff Speare)
Subject: Re: TUSV: Locks
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>>I would put some upper limit as to how good the locks are. It would be
>>relatively cheap (especially when brought within a vehicle) to buy enough
>>of a
>>bonus to the lock talent to make it effectively impossible to crack.
> I've inserted a note that this may be advisable. Most campaigns can
>probably do well with a limit of -5.
Since it's a super-vehicle book (and the Amazing Lock-Man might have a
car), I suppose saying "this is the real world limit" is the thing to do.
Geoff Speare
From: Egyptoid <Egyptoid@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:47:09 EST
Subject: CHAR: PHOENIX - JEAN GREY
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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PHOENIX
11 STR 10 x1
21 DEX 10 x3
48 CON 10 x2 Vuln: x2 Effect, Magical Attacks
15 BODY 10 x2 Vuln: 1.5x Effect, Mental Illusions
15 INT 10 x1 Psych: Addicted to Passion & Emotions
48 EGO 10 x2 DNPC: Scott Summers
19 PRE 10 x1 Psych: Alternates between Shy & Cosmically Aloof
23 COM 10 x.5 Secret ID: Jean Grey
13 PD S5 x1
13 ED C5 x1
5 SPD 1D10 x10
26 REC S5C5 x2
110 END Cx2 x.5
80 STUN BS2C2 x1
Elemental Control: Phoenix Force (15)
a) Transform: Any basic element into any other, Minor, 8 dice.
b) Instant Change, any clothing, usable by & against others.
c) Force Field: 55 PD, 55 ED, Half-End
d) FTL: Usable by Others at the same time, x2560 Lightspeed
Trigger, Area Effect: 3 Hex gateway, Transdimensional.
e) Regeneration: 1 Body per Day, Persistent (Immortal, rises even from ashes)
f) Energy Blast: 16d6, Increased Max Range x25, No Range Mods.
g) Telekinesis: 60 STR, Increased Max Range x25, No Range Mods, Fine Work.
h) Change Environment: Weather Control, x16 Increased Area Effect, Variable
i) Life Support: Full
j) Transfer: Endurance, from beings, mystic power sources, solar sources,
and probably magic manifestatons. Into END. 8d6, 5 minute Fade.
Shuts off all other powers except Flight.
(EC: all SFX are Cosmic Power)
Telepathy: 16d6
Mind Scan: 12d6, +12 to Roll.
Luck, 2 dice
Danger Sense, 17-, any area, (psychic, cosmic)
High Society, PS: Model, SC: Astrophysics, KS: Mentalism,
AK: Universe, Astronavigation, Persuasion, Seduction, PS: Pilot,
SC: Parapsychology, System Ops,
Flight Skill Levels: 3, Attacks Skill Levels: 2 Mental Skill Levels: 4
Phoenix Force: When any of her EC powers are used, they suffer from
this linked effect. She projects a raptor shaped aura of flame around
herself. This is cosmic flame, often wispy, but sometimes powerful
& intense. Normally it is merely a Change Environment from anywhere
3 hexes or more radius, producing light & mild heat. In times of great
stress, passion, or when pushing powers, the force can manifest as a
Flash, of up to 8 dice or more. Under more usage, or more stress, it
can actually cross over into being a Energy Blast, of up to 10 dice.
It seems to limit it's own appearance to the enclosing size of the area,
but it can be truly huge.
Area Size Conditions Manifest PRE plus
=======================#=======================================#========
Indoors 1 Hex # At Peace CE: Light + Heat # 4
# #
Street 3 Hex Rad # Stress 1d6 Flash, 2d6 EB # 8
# #
Outdoors 6 Hex Rad # Combat 2d6 Flash, 4d6 EB # 12
# #
Flying, 9 Hex Rad # Life & Death 3d6 Flash, 6d6 EB # 16
or in Space # or Pushing
To determine effects, you need to think about where she is and what's
going on. Use both columns for PRE effects. The Manifest & Size columns
are cumulative, so if she were under stress outdoors, there would be
Light, Heat, 3d6 Flash & 6d6 EB in a 10 hex radius, and her PRE would
be plus 20. Needless to say, these powers are also all Zero End, Independent,
No Conscious Control, Linked to her EC, and Triggered by Stress. A
nice GM would allow it to be Selective Fire, since she rarely toasted X-men.
Real Name: Jean Grey Height: 5'6" Weight: 110lbs.
Hair: Red Eyes: Green
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
This is my take on the Green & Gold Marvel, when she was still in her
"I'm half Jean Grey" state of mind. I didn't feel like bothering with
all the Accidental Changes, Shape-shift & junk associated with the Dark
Phoenix problems. This is Phoenix how I wanted her to be, how IMHO the
X-men thought she was, before she got all wierd and cosmic, evil and
let's not even talk about the coccoon, Madeline Pryor, etc. etc. etc.
you know how they can't leave a good idea alone, they gotta change
every good character, rant, rave, grumble, grumble...remember when X
in a title meant something...rant, rave, grumble, grumble...
From: "Case" <wmpc@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Some adventures I'll be running in the NE Area
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:55:21 -0500
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I will be running the following adventure at Total Confusion Feb 19-22,
Andover MA.Their webpage site is: http://www.totalcon.com
This is the email I sent to them describing the event:
I'll be running a (Dark) Champions game that I wrote
called 'Cult of the Vivisectionist'. Maximum number of players is 6 (7 or
more
really gets unwieldy, and not as fun). Desired gaming experience is
moderate to advanced. It should be stressed that people who can 'ROLE PLAY'
(that
is, act out a role) as opposed to 'stat play' (that is, playing a sheet of
stats with no life) will have alot more fun. I don't mind teaching people
CHAMPIONS, as long as they can 'act'.
Characters will be playing 150-200 point pre-generated
'superagent'-quality characters (although players are encouraged to submit
their own characters for approval). This will be a single table event, but
it uses music for ambience- so electricity and privacy would be *GREATLY*
apprieciated. (This event runs about 6 hours- is that a problem?)
Preferred time slot- Fri from 6pm to midnight
Blurb for convention booklet:
"'Cult of the Vivisectionist' by Paul Case: ('Dark' Champions) Set
in the post-Christian Apocalypse of the year 2019, Dr Vivisector, an
performance artist who dissects human victims onstage to a techno-beat,
sets out to finally ascend from the underground and bring his Vivisectionist
movement to 'mainstream'.
Not for kids, this NC-17 adventure reads like a Frank Miller graphic
novel: sexual situations, potentially very graphic violence, techno-music,
and religious themes all intertwine for a fast-moving 6 hour adventure."
Here's an adventure I'll be running at the end of January at Dreamation
1998:
After weeks of exhaustive research and almost endless hours refining the
storyline, the sequel to "Cult of the Vivisectionist" is finally done- it is
called, "...and into the FireStarter".
Here's the blurb for the prereg booklet:
"...and into the FireStarter" by Paul M. Case: (Dark) Champions- Set in
the post-Christian Apocalypse of the year 2019- FireStarter and his bike
gang, 'The Dogs of War' are tearing up the Arizona badlands- extortion,
murder, robbery. Nothing stops them- until they get swept up by an ancient
evil- one that lays claim to FireStarter's pyrokenitic abilities.
Not for the kids, you play the villains in this NC-17 rated adventure-
burning your candle twice as bright: Potential sexual situations, graphic
violence,
and surprising twists all lend them themselves to a fast paced audio-ambient
6
hour adventure.
Max 6 players.
Sounds cool, eh?? Alot of people really enjoyed the "Cult of the
Vivisecionist" adventure I ran at Dexcon 6- and I still get email wondering
about the sequel. So I get the feeling this one'll get booked up pretty
fast!
Here's the Dreamation 1998 webpage and phone no.:
==================================
Double Exposure, Inc.
Gaming the way it was meant to be!
==================================
http://www.io.com/~doublex/
(718) 881-4575
==================================
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 07:35:53 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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At 02:36 PM 12/5/97 +0000, Brian Wong wrote:
> Well, you can fly but no-one can tell you're flying, nor can they
>even tell you've moved at all.
No, no one can tell HOW you're moving. If I have an RKA with IPE, it
doesn't mean you don't feel the pain; the *function* of the power remains
unchanged, merely the *mechanism* is hidden (no flash, no bang, no muzzle
smoke).
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
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X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 07:35:55 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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At 02:55 PM 12/5/97 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> The only question is, just what advantage is there to Flight IPE? I
>mean, the real advantage of IPE is that others can't tell you're using the
>Power. Energy Blast with Invisible Power Effects means that you can use
>the EB without others knowing about it, or at least being able to tell that
>you're the one behind it. Flight with Invisible Power Effects would mean
>that, while it may be obvious that you're moving, others can't tell that
>you're flying. At least, that's how I read it.
This is a little like saying "quarterbacks are useless players in football",
contigent on you using the pre-forward pass rules. After all, you start by
changing part of the game, saying "I don't like Flight requiring visible
FX", THEN make the statement that "IPE has no useful effect on Flight". No,
it has no useful effect on YOUR VERSION of Flight -- it has no useful effect
because you're giving it away for free!
The "canon" (if there is such a thing under the official "wishy-washy"
company stance) rule is that, yes, Flight requires 3 sense groups for SFX.
This is not necessarily a difficult thing to do -- Iron Man, for example,
can be heard (roar of rockets), seen (flame flash under boots) and detected
by thermal senses. All those characters with "force of will" flight,
according to the standard rules, SHOULD buy it IPE.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
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X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 07:38:08 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Invisible Power Effects
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At 06:03 PM 12/5/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> By definition, all powers (excluding mental) have Visible power
>effects. They can be sensed by at least three sense groups. Am I
>correct?
Nope. All Powers =that cost END= have Visible Power effects. Density
Increase may or may not be exempt from this (the wording on the Visible
limitation implies it is).
But, for example, Life Support, Armor, and Absorption don't require visible
effects.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 06:14:43 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Unusual Fight Settings for Pulp Campaign
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At 12:02 AM 12/5/97 +0000, Guy Hoyle the Ineffable wrote:
>> rolling. On trains--especially if you can leap from roof to roof of the
>> cars on a speeding train, with lots of tunnels ahead and maybe even a
>> bridge that's been blown up.
>
>Hmm. What game mechanics can I bring into play here? Climbing and DEX
>rolls are all obvious. Penalties to fight skills, surprise maneuvers?
This is what I currently have in TUSV on this matter (in case it helps):
Hanging Onto the Edge
Sometimes combat takes place outside the vehicle, but not away from it.
In other words, when an enemy manages to climb up the side of your giant
robot or jumps on the roof of your car, sometimes it's more effective to
get out and fight him directly than to try any vehicle-based attacks
against him. (If nothing else, it keeps your vehicle from getting damaged
by collateral damage from its own weapons.)
Two characters who are fighting while hanging on to the side of a
vehicle are considered to be in combat while Climbing. Each phase that a
character is fighting while climbing, he must make a Climbing Roll to keep
from falling off. Any time a character is hit with an attack that does
BODY, he must also make a Climbing Roll at -1 for every 2 pips of BODY the
attack does (even if the character's defenses absorb all the BODY).
A character fighting while Climbing is at ½ DCV, +1 DCV for every 2
points he makes his most recent Climbing Roll by (rounded down). If the
Climbing Roll is missed, the character slips, and must make a DEX Roll at
-1 for every -1 the Climbing Roll was missed by. If the DEX Roll is made,
the character catches himself, but is at ½ DCV and may not make an attack
that Phase. If the DEX Roll is missed, the character falls.
If a character is hit by an attack with enough BODY to do Knockdown or
Knockback, then no Climbing Roll may be attempted. The character
automatically and unavoidably falls. The character may use Breakfall,
Climbing, or any other appropriate Skill to stop the fall, but the fall
cannot be prevented. Of course, certain Powers such as Clinging or
Knockback Resistance (whether natural or bought through a gadget) may be
used to resist that Knockdown or Knockback, but it cannot modify the fall
once it happens. Also, in this particular situation, Density Increase and
Growth do not resist Knockback (depending on the Special Effect, of course).
Of course, how difficult this is can depend on the vehicle's exterior
design. If it's smooth on the outside, with few hand-holds — or, worse,
armor specifically designed to be slick — then all Climbing Rolls would
take a penalty. If there are a lot of hand-holds meant to be used for
climbing, then all Climbing Rolls would get a bonus. If the cockpit hatch
(or whatever the operator uses to get into and out of the vehicle) opens
downward and the characters are standing on it, then no Climbing Rolls
would be called for; this constitutes a normal combat, though on a very
small (and, of course, precarious) map, just as though the characters were
on top of the vehicle.
Fighting on top of a vehicle is somewhat different, and rather easier.
In such a situation, each character must make a DEX Roll every Phase to
keep his balance, or else he falls. If he falls, he may make a DEX Roll
(as above, at -1 for every -1 the first DEX Roll was missed by) to grab the
edge of the vehicle and hang on for dear life. As above, the character is
at half DCV and can only perform limited types of actions (such as climbing
back up, grabbing someone's ankle to try to throw him off, and so forth).
If a character wants to pull himself back on top of the vehicle, he must
take a Phase and make a STR Roll; if the roll is failed, the character
falls off the vehicle.
Characters on top of a vehicle also have to make a DEX Roll when they
are hit, at -1 for every 2 BODY taken, or they will fall down (just as
characters climbing on the side make a Climbing Roll at -1 for every 2 BODY
taken). All characters are at -2 OCV and DCV while fighting on a moving
vehicle. Lastly, all movement is halved; if a character wants to move at
full speed, add a -1 to all DEX Rolls to keep his balance.
Characters may also try to leap from moving vehicle to moving vehicle as
they fight. To jump safely between vehicles, a character has to roll to
hit the vehicle. If he hits, he has landed safely. If he misses by 1, he
has managed to catch on to the edge of the vehicle, and is holding on to
the side for dear life. If he misses by 2 or more, he falls. The operator
of the target vehicle may realize what the character is trying to do, and
deliberately try to maneuver out of his way by performing a "vehicular
dodge" or a sharp turn, as described above; this may add to the vehicle's
DCV or make the character's leap fail outright. On the other hand, if the
operator of either vehicle is trying to help the jumping character, a
Control Roll (with appropriate modifiers) may be attempted as a
complementary Roll to the jumper's Attack Roll.
Knockback off a moving vehicle can be fatal. A character who falls off
a moving vehicle (whether he was standing on top or Climbing on the side),
roll the damage as though the vehicle had done a Move By on him (though
obviously the vehicle wouldn't take a portion of the damage, since it's
actually the ground doing the Move By). At the GM's option, this may
become Move Through damage, such as if the falling character hits something
upright (like a telephone pole).
Another classic situation when fighting on moving vehicles is when the
vehicle gets close enough to a standing object that a character on the
vehicle strikes the object. The classic form of this is when two
characters are on top of a train as it passes into a tunnel, though nearly
every type of vehicle has been used for this bit. In this case, the
character takes the Move Through damage of the vehicle, up to a maximum of
1d6 for every DEF plus BODY the object has.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:36:20 +0000 (GMT)
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> > > >40 10" Flight, Invisible Power Effects - sight, 0 END
> > >
> > > What does the IPE do for his flight?
> >
Well, you can fly but no-one can tell you're flying, nor can they
even tell you've moved at all.
Not sure what special effect would be able to fit that one,
but game mechanics wise, that's what you've got.
If flying required a visable effect of glowing, sound or whatever,
then so would running or swimming. It's default effect is that you are seen
heard and felt to move away.
Rook : a common Old World gregarious bird related to the American crow.
Super Hero Links Page: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Re: Unusual Fight Settings for Pulp Campaign
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:57:32 -0500
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Excellent rules! But I have two questions:
>If a character wants to pull himself back on top of the vehicle,
>he must take a Phase and make a STR Roll;
Why a STR roll, and not a Climbing roll?
>A character who falls off a moving vehicle roll the damage
>as though the vehicle had done a Move By on him
What if the vehicle is going non-combat? Have you decided on the
non-combat move by and move through rules?
Dave Mattingly
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:21:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Grackleflints
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GRACKLEFLINT
Designers Notes:
Grackleflints aren't so much a 'what' as a 'who'. The Umbra Sprite's
sons, there are five of them; Emil, Lazlo, Piet, Radu and Stanis. Evil
through and through they are deadly enemies of mankind and, in particular,
Kevin Matchstick. Matt Wagner has this to say about the Grackleflints:
"Umbra Sprite means simply, dark spirit, but the Grackleflints are utterly
my own creation. In searching for a moniker for a brood born of a demon,
I devised the term in the same way I came up with Matchstick P by
combining common words to form a character name that was descriptive.
Grackles are oily, squacky, nasty birds. Flint is brittle and black P
like their souls. Making them featureless and white stressed the point by
forming an opposite image. Otherwise, there's no mythological base for
these characters P although there are certain mentions in Native American
lore about hideous old women with sharp, spiked elbows."
Description:
The Grackleflints look to stand about six foot even, with a thin, but
strong, build. Their skin is dead white, and they don't have hair,
pupils, ears or fingernails. Normally, the Grackleflints dress in slacks
and black sweaters with the sleeves rolled up. Over this they wear long,
dark blue, trench coats and fedoras.
Powers Notes:
Each Grackleflint can do something different. Their respective powers
are:
Lazlo: Clairvoyance. This ability allows him do touch someone and
determine what that creature is.
Piet: Shapeshifing. Piet uses this power to disguise himself and others.
Radu: Invisibility. Radu can make others invisible as well.
Stanis: Flight.
Emil: Initiative. Emil does not blindly follow his father's lead, and
this makes him very dangerous. Emil also looks to be significantly
brighter than his brothers.
On top of these individual powers, the Grackleflints are very strong,
durable, resistant to harm and fairly quick. They also have a venomous
spur at the base of the elbow. The poison in this spur is *very* lethal
and will kill a man very quickly (and painfully).
Disadvantages Notes:
The Gracs are, as a rule, evil and sadistic, taking great delight in
causing pain and torment. All of them (with the exception of Emil) follow
their father blindly, not question his actions or decisions. Their father
also keeps close tabs on their actions and will harshly punish any one who
commits a serious error (said punishment often putting a Grac out of
commission for a few *days*).
Aside from their unusual looks, the Gracs are highly susceptible to water.
Radu is killed (looking almost to choke to death) after getting drenched
with a blast of water. Gracs also look to affected more than other
creatures by green magic. At times, Edsel's bat looks more effective than
Kevin's fists.
(Grackleflints created by Matt Wagner, character sheets created by Michael
Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:23:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Emil Grackleflint
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X-UID: 12
EMIL GRACKLEFLINT
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 35 25
Dex 18 24
Con 25 30
Body 13 6
Int 20 10
Ego 23 26
Pre 23 13
Com 8 -1
PD 10 3
ED 10 5
Spd 4 12
Rec 12 0
End 50 0
Stun 45 1
Char Total 154
Power Total 242
Total Cost 396
COST POWERS & SKILLS
176 4d6 Body Drain, Recover 5 CP/Month (+2), Continious (+1),
Uncontrolled (+1/2), 0 END, Persistant, Spur must contact flesh
(-1/4)
20 Damage Reduction: 1/2 Physical, Resistant, Stun Only (-1/2)
6 Mental Defense: 10 DEF
3 Acting 14-
2 AK: Local City 11-
3 Bureacratics 14-
3 Gambling 11-
3 High Society 14-
2 KS: Creatures of Fairie 11-
2 PS: Accountant 11-
2 PS: Pit Boss 11-
3 Stealth 13-
3 Streetwise 14-
3 Tactics 13-
1 TF: Ground Vehicles
10 CSL: +2 with HTH
Disadvantages
100 Base
15 DF: White skin; no ears, fingernails, hair or pupils; spurs on
elbows
20 Psych: Rebellious, does not fully follow his father's lead
15 Psych: Sadistic
10 Psych: Considers his brothers to be incompetent fools
15 SID: As a Grackleflint
30 Suscept: Water, 2d6 BODY/segment
10 Vuln: 2x STUN from 'green' magic
10 Watched: The Umbra Sprite (MoPow) 11-
171 Grackleflint Bonus
(Emil Grackleflint created by Matt Wagner, Character sheet created by
Michael Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:30:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: Lazlo Grackleflint
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X-UID: 14
LAZLO GRACKLEFLINT
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 35 25
Dex 18 24
Con 25 30
Body 13 6
Int 10 0
Ego 13 6
Pre 20 10
Com 8 -1
PD 10 3
ED 10 5
Spd 4 12
Rec 12 0
End 50 0
Stun 45 1
Char Total 122
Power Total 272
Total Cost 394
COST POWERS & SKILLS
176 4d6 Body Drain, Recover 5 CP/Month (+2), Continious (+1),
Uncontrolled (+1/2), 0 END, Persistant, Spur must contact flesh
(-1/4)
40 8d6 Telepathy, 0 END, No Range - must touch target (-1/2)
20 Damage Reduction: 1/2 Physical, Resistant, Stun Only (-1/2)
1 Acting 8-
2 AK: Local City 11-
3 Gambling 11-
1 High Society 8-
2 KS: Creatures of Fairie 11-
2 PS: Pit Boss 11-
3 Stealth 13-
3 Streetwise 13-
1 TF: Ground Vehicles
8 CSL: +4 with Telepathy
10 CSL: +2 with HTH
Disadvantages
100 Base
15 DF: White skin; no ears, fingernails, hair or pupils; spurs on
elbows
20 Psych: Unquestionly loyal to their father (The Umbra Sprite)
15 Psych: Sadistic
15 SID: As a Grackleflint
30 Suscept: Water, 2d6 BODY/segment
10 Vuln: 2x STUN from 'green' magic
10 Watched: The Umbra Sprite (MoPow) 11-
179 Grackleflint Bonus
(Lazlo Grackleflint created by Matt Wagner, Character sheet created by
Michael Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:31:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Piet Grackleflint
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***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:34:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Radu Grackleflint
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RADU GRACKLEFLINT
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 35 25
Dex 18 24
Con 25 30
Body 13 6
Int 10 0
Ego 13 6
Pre 20 10
Com 8 -1
PD 10 3
ED 10 5
Spd 4 12
Rec 12 0
End 50 0
Stun 45 1
Char Total 122
Power Total 284
Total Cost 406
COST POWERS & SKILLS
176 4d6 Body Drain, Recover 5 CP/Month (+2), Continious (+1),
Uncontrolled (+1/2), 0 END, Persistant, Spur must contact flesh
(-1/4)
60 Invisibility: Sight, No Fringe, Useable by Radu and up to one
other (+1/2), 0 END
20 Damage Reduction: 1/2 Physical, Resistant, Stun Only (-1/2)
1 Acting 8-
2 AK: Local City 11-
3 Gambling 11-
1 High Society 8-
2 KS: Creatures of Fairie 11-
2 PS: Pit Boss 11-
3 Stealth 13-
3 Streetwise 13-
1 TF: Ground Vehicles
10 CSL: +2 with HTH
Disadvantages
100 Base
15 DF: White skin; no ears, fingernails, hair or pupils; spurs on
elbows
20 Psych: Unquestionly loyal to their father (The Umbra Sprite)
15 Psych: Sadistic
15 SID: As a Grackleflint
30 Suscept: Water, 2d6 BODY/segment
10 Vuln: 2x STUN from 'green' magic
10 Watched: The Umbra Sprite (MoPow) 11-
191 Grackleflint Bonus
(Radu Grackleflint created by Matt Wagner, Character sheet created by
Michael Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:37:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Radu Grackleflint
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X-UID: 15
RADU GRACKLEFLINT
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 35 25
Dex 18 24
Con 25 30
Body 13 6
Int 10 0
Ego 13 6
Pre 20 10
Com 8 -1
PD 10 3
ED 10 5
Spd 4 12
Rec 12 0
End 50 0
Stun 45 1
Char Total 122
Power Total 284
Total Cost 406
COST POWERS & SKILLS
176 4d6 Body Drain, Recover 5 CP/Month (+2), Continious (+1),
Uncontrolled (+1/2), 0 END, Persistant, Spur must contact flesh
(-1/4)
60 Invisibility: Sight, No Fringe, Useable by Radu and up to one
other (+1/2), 0 END
20 Damage Reduction: 1/2 Physical, Resistant, Stun Only (-1/2)
1 Acting 8-
2 AK: Local City 11-
3 Gambling 11-
1 High Society 8-
2 KS: Creatures of Fairie 11-
2 PS: Pit Boss 11-
3 Stealth 13-
3 Streetwise 13-
1 TF: Ground Vehicles
10 CSL: +2 with HTH
Disadvantages
100 Base
15 DF: White skin; no ears, fingernails, hair or pupils; spurs on
elbows
20 Psych: Unquestionly loyal to their father (The Umbra Sprite)
15 Psych: Sadistic
15 SID: As a Grackleflint
30 Suscept: Water, 2d6 BODY/segment
10 Vuln: 2x STUN from 'green' magic
10 Watched: The Umbra Sprite (MoPow) 11-
191 Grackleflint Bonus
(Radu Grackleflint created by Matt Wagner, Character sheet created by
Michael Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:40:51 -0800
From: RGSchwerdtfeger@directv.com (Richard G Schwerdtfeger)
Subject: Re[2]: TUSV: Locks
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part
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X-UID: 20
Bob wrote, upon reading my response to his Locks idea:
<quote>
You know, sometimes I get these suggestions and feel like a real idiot
-- but not for the reason you probably think.
What you suggest was my first inclination. Then I thought, why should
the design on one Lock affect any of the others? So I wrote the
Talent to cover them individually.
But your last sentence really struck me. There are a lot of GMs like
you, who might want this rule without that level of detail. There
should also be an option to buy the Lockpicking/Security Systems
penalty for all the locks at 2 points per -1.
Duh.
But, of course, that's why I put these things before other people; one
man alone can't come up with everything.
</quote>
Glad I could be of help.
Richard
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:44:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint
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X-UID: 18
STANIS GRACKLEFLINT
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 35 25
Dex 18 24
Con 25 30
Body 13 6
Int 10 0
Ego 13 6
Pre 20 10
Com 8 -1
PD 10 3
ED 10 5
Spd 4 12
Rec 12 0
End 50 0
Stun 45 1
Char Total 122
Power Total 264
Total Cost 386
COST POWERS & SKILLS
176 4d6 Body Drain, Recover 5 CP/Month (+2), Continious (+1),
Uncontrolled (+1/2), 0 END, Persistant, Spur must contact flesh
(-1/4)
40 10" Flight, Invisible Power Effects - sight, 0 END
20 Damage Reduction: 1/2 Physical, Resistant, Stun Only (-1/2)
1 Acting 8-
2 AK: Local City 11-
3 Gambling 11-
1 High Society 8-
2 KS: Creatures of Fairie 11-
2 PS: Pit Boss 11-
3 Stealth 13-
3 Streetwise 13-
1 TF: Ground Vehicles
10 CSL: +2 with HTH
Disadvantages
100 Base
15 DF: White skin; no ears, fingernails, hair or pupils; spurs on
elbows
20 Psych: Unquestionly loyal to their father (The Umbra Sprite)
15 Psych: Sadistic
15 SID: As a Grackleflint
30 Suscept: Water, 2d6 BODY/segment
10 Vuln: 2x STUN from 'green' magic
10 Watched: The Umbra Sprite (MoPow) 11-
171 Grackleflint Bonus
(Stanis Grackleflint created by Matt Wagner, Character sheet created by
Michael Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:48:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Leanhaun Sidhe
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X-UID: 19
LEANHAUN SIDHE
Designers Notes:
The Leanhaun Sidhe (pronounced "Lee-annan She"), is an Irish faerie. She
is a noted seducer of men, and drinks the blood of her victims.
Interestingly, she is also the patron of poets, although those that are
blessed by her tend to die young.
Description:
In _Mage_, the two Leanhaun Sidhe seen stand about 5' 6", with a lithe
build. Both of them look virtually identical (although we may have seen
the same one twice), with thick, collar-length, silvery-white hair that
fell down over their eyes. They wore a fishnet bodysuit, a black halter
top and gloves.
Powers Notes:
The Leanhaun Sidhe's main power is her ability to hypnotize men. This
power looks to require her to touch her target, since Kevin's eyes didn't
glaze over until she laid her hand on his arm. It seems likely that they
use their looks and seductive skill to get their target to drop his guard,
at which time they close in for the kill.
The Leanhaun Sidhe will bite their target's neck and drain his blood once
they have him under control. If faced with a target they can't affect
(like another female) they'll get physical, using their clawed hands.
Disadvantages Notes:
Two samples of a Leanhaun Sidhe's speech patterns are as follows:
"So big and so broad. Just dying to wallow in what's under the mesh.
Dear boy, don't you see the trouble you're in? I see you see not, in
which case, I win."
"So, a missy jumps in with weapon and spunk to save he by whom they are
led. Let's see how well he likes you, you meddlesome punk, with your face
all mangled and red."
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 20 10
Dex 18 24
Con 20 20
Body 10 0
Int 15 5
Ego 20 20
Pre 20 10
Com 20 5
PD 6 2
ED 6 2
Spd 3 4
Rec 8 0
End 40 0
Stun 30 0
Char Total 102
Power Total 154
Total Cost 256
COST POWERS & SKILLS
42 12d6 Mind Control, 0 END, Telepathic (+1/4), No Range (-1/2), Men
Only (-1)
50 2d6 Body Drain, Recovers 5 CP per Day (+1 1/4), Continous (+1), 0
END, Must follow Grab (-1/2)
12 1/2d6 HKA (1d6+1 w/STR), 0 END, Reduced Penetration (-1/4)
3 LS: Immune to aging
3 Acting 13-
3 Conversation 13-
5 Contortionist
3 KS: Poetry and rhymes
3 Persuasion 13-
3 Seduction 13-
5 Stealth 13-
10 CSL: +2 with HTH
12 CSL: +6 ECV with Mind Control
Disadvantages
100 Base
10 DF: Highly attractive
5 DF: Speaks in rhyme
10 Psych: Likes to toy with prey
10 Rep: Seducer of men, blood-drinker (ext) 8-
121 Fairie Vampire Bonus
(Leanhaun Sidhe created by Matt Wagner, character sheet created by Michael
Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:51:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Red Cap
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X-UID: 21
RED CAP
Designers Notes:
Red Caps are evil faerie creatures from the Scottish highlands. They are
usually depicted as short, stout and wizened looking and are often armed
with a pike staff or poll-axe and wear metal boots. Red Caps get their
name from the habit of dipping their cloth caps in blood to dye them.
Description:
Red Caps in _Mage_ stand about three feet tall, with thin arms and legs, a
pot belly, large lower jaws and a long nose. Their hair is white and
stringy. When operating in this world, they wear dirty trousers and a
long green coat.
Powers Notes:
Although Red Caps are very short, they weigh quite a bit. They wear
heavy, spiked, metal shoes and will leap feet first at their targets. Red
Caps also carry slings, which fire 'elf-bolts'. They can unleash burst up
five or more if given the chance. Finally, there is a scene is issue 9
which indicates that a Red Cap can control the weather to some extent.
Disadvantages Notes:
The average Red Cap's disads are pretty standard. It should be noted that
their metal boots pretty much prevent them from being truly stealthy. As
Mirth puts it: "Ssh... you can hear the scrape of their boots...".
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 20 0
Dex 14 12
Con 13 6
Body 10 0
Int 10 0
Ego 10 0
Pre 13 3
Com 6 -2
PD 6 2
ED 6 3
Spd 3 6
Rec 6 0
End 30 2
Stun 30 8
Char Total 40
Power Total 151
Total Cost 191
COST POWERS & SKILLS
13 Density Increase: Two levels, 0 END, Persistant, Always on
13 Shrinking: One Level, 0 END, Persistant, Always on
3m tall, 50kg, +10 STR, +2 PD/ED, -2 PER, +2 DCV, +1" KB
33 EB: 6d6, Autofire 5, 0 END (+1), No KB, OAF: Sling
10 HKA: 1d6, Linked to Superleap (-1/2), END 1
3 LS: Immune to aging
4 Superleap: +4", END 1
60 Change Environment: Rain and dreary weather (+1), END 6
3 Shadowing 11-
3 Tracking 11-
1 WF: Pikestaff/poll-axe
8 CSL: +4 OCV with Sling
Disadvantages
100 Base
15 DF: Short, squat, ugly man with metal boots and a red cap (conc,
maj)
10 Phys: Metal boots, no stealth possible (inf, great)
10 Psych: Casual killer
10 Rep: Evil faeries that dip their caps in human blood (Ext) 8-
46 Red Cap bonus
(Red Caps created by Matt Wagner, character sheet created by Michael
Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
From: Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:18:00 -0500
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X-UID: 22
>40 10" Flight, Invisible Power Effects - sight, 0 END
What does the IPE do for his flight?
Dave Mattingly
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Invisible Power Effects
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:00:35 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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>
> ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> > By definition, all powers (excluding mental) have Visible power
> >effects. They can be sensed by at least three sense groups. Am I
> >correct?
> >
> Yes, but the current debate is based upon *what* that default effect must
> be (esp. for Flight). Is it a glowing field, sonic boom, and smell of
> sulfur; or is it that you can see and hear (and smell, I suppose) the guy
> while he is flying.
>
> If the guy looked like he was falling sideways, out of control, would this
> be IPE? 'Cause it looks like he's not really flying... (Greatest American
> Hero, anyone?)
>
Hmmm
I don't think that's the current debate so much.
What is the default? Anything that fits three senses. There is no specific
default to any special effect in Champions or Hero system
I think the debate here is more one of
does being visable flying and obviously moving caount as visable or invisible?
Rook : a common Old World gregarious bird related to the American crow.
Super Hero Links Page: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at: http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:03:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Weasel Attack!!! <weasel-patrol@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Piet Grackleflint (ver 1.2)
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Uh... looks like I missed the first time around.
PIET GRACKLEFLINT
The Character:
STAT VAL COST
Str 35 25
Dex 18 24
Con 25 30
Body 13 6
Int 10 0
Ego 13 6
Pre 20 10
Com 8 -1
PD 10 3
ED 10 5
Spd 4 12
Rec 12 0
End 50 0
Stun 45 1
Char Total 122
Power Total 280
Total Cost 402
COST POWERS & SKILLS
176 4d6 Body Drain, Recover 5 CP/Month (+2), Continious (+1),
Uncontrolled (+1/2), 0 END, Persistant, Spur must contact flesh
(-1/4)
56 Images: Sight and Hearing, 1" radius, -10 PER, Usable by Piet and
up to 4 others at the same time (+1), at Range (+1/2), 0 END, Can
only be used to disguise the features & voice of himself/another
(-1)
20 Damage Reduction: 1/2 Physical, Resistant, Stun Only (-1/2)
1 Acting 8-
2 AK: Local City 11-
3 Gambling 11-
1 High Society 8-
2 KS: Creatures of Fairie 11-
2 PS: Pit Boss 11-
3 Stealth 13-
3 Streetwise 13-
1 TF: Ground Vehicles
10 CSL: +2 with HTH
Disadvantages
100 Base
15 DF: White skin; no ears, fingernails, hair or pupils; spurs on
elbows
20 Psych: Unquestionly loyal to their father (The Umbra Sprite)
15 Psych: Sadistic
15 SID: As a Grackleflint
30 Suscept: Water, 2d6 BODY/segment
10 Vuln: 2x STUN from 'green' magic
10 Watched: The Umbra Sprite (MoPow) 11-
187 Grackleflint Bonus
(Piet Grackleflint created by Matt Wagner, Character sheet created by
Michael Surbrook)
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:40:22 -0800
From: RGSchwerdtfeger@directv.com (Richard G Schwerdtfeger)
Subject: Regarding the Grackleflints...
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Seeing Mike's version of the Grackleflints reminds me of a villain
team I have in my campaign.
One of the interesting aspects in the original Mage series was that
Kevin and crew didn't know there were five Gracks at first. IIRC, He
met one of them, and then when he spied a second, he assumed it was
still the first one. Since he knew the powers of one of them, he
used tactics that would have helped him against those powers. But boy
was he surprised when he found out they all have different powers.
This got me thinking, and creating. What would players do with
bad guys who seemed to have different powers every time they were
encountered? Thus was born the Johnny Squad.
Johnnies are clones utilizing genetic material stolen from other
superpowered individuals. All Johnnies look exactly the same (black
business suits, blond crewcuts, dark glasses), but every one has
a different set of powers. The Johnnies that the group have met
are Johnny Jetstream (with powers similar to Cannonball from the
New Mutants) and Johnny Haymaker (a standard brick), with nearly
a dozen more in the wings (like Johnnies Popgun, Transport, Void,
and Headache).
These clones work for the main villainous agent group in my
campaign: PREDATOR, and during one of the last adventures, managed
to steal genetic samples from two of the PCs. So it probably
won't be too much time before Johnny Elastic and Johnny Fleetfeet
show up.
Richard
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 97 20:22:17
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Character experience
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On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:25:21 -0500 (EST), Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
>
>On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, qts wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:47:26 -0500 (EST), Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, qts wrote:
>> >
>> >> Would people agree that there is a general progression of experience
>> >> reflected by cost in the various frameworks?
>> >>
>[snip]
>> >
>> >I disagree strongly that the frameworks represent a progression of
>> >experience. They *might* represent such a progression, if it suited a
>> >character's special effects, but the frameworks are more likely to be
>> >employed to simulate effects which won't blend into one another with
>> >experience.
>> >
>>
>> Being FH oriented, I'm more interested in wielders of power rather than
>> modelling items.
>>
>> Consider Lolly Pop, a cold-oriented super: to start with she has a MP
>> with ultra slots, as she can't control her powers well enough to do
>> more than one thing at a time. Later, she gets more control over her
>> powers, and learns to do more than one thing at a time and thus has an
>> EC. Later still, she gains complete mastery over her ice powers, and
>> thus has a VPP.
>>
>> A side effect of this I've just realised is that it keeps the power
>> level down
>>
>
>I can see how this approach will work quite well for what you want to do.
>My only objection was the implication that this progression might be
>inherent in the system, which it certainly is not.
Ah, I see. Perhaps I could have phrased it better, for that was not my
intention.
> Making a progression of
>these frameworks part of your magic system, though, is entirely valid and
>a good idea.
It needs a little work, I think.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"champ-l@omg.org\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 97 20:24:05
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Dream Powers
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On Mon, 01 Dec 1997 14:27:31 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 07:51 PM 12/1/97, \"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk> wrote:
>>On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:46:27 -0500 (EST), ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>>
>>> How would you simulate a character who could 'dream walk' --
>>>enter another character's mind through their dreams.
>>
>>Mental Illusions or Telepathy, Only when Target is Asleep.
>
> One could also go with Extra-Dimensional Movement (as per Champions in
>3-D).
I've not read that one, but XDM UAO is a bit hairy!
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 97 20:28:06
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Fight scenes
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On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:30:43 -0500 (EST), Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
>
>On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, qts wrote:
>
>> All this talk about fight scenes leads me to a question:
>>
>> Can anyone cite a fight scene funnier than those in Braveheart which is
>> NOT deliberately funny?
>
>
>Blake's 7 was a great show plagued by the BBC's low budget effects.
>Typically, fights on the show tended to look like a bunch of out of shape
>actors pretending to shoot or hit one another. On one particular episode,
>though, (I don't remember the title) they clearly splurged for some
>stuntmen. At first, the action is an exciting surprise for B7. But
>evidently they decided to get their money's worth on those stuntmen,
>because soon enough the combatants are leaping down small cliffs for no
>particular reason. They finally got decent stuntwork on the show, and they
>didn't know how to use it.
I remember B7! It was an enjoyable romp.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
From: "\"qts\" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
\"champ-l@omg.org\"" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 97 20:51:26
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: TUSV: Locks
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On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 13:26:53 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> Here's a little something that just occurred to me, and I typed it into
>my manuscript for TUSV this morning. I'd like to see what people think.
>(It's been placed under Talents, for lack of a better category.)
>
>Locks
>
> By default, every vehicle has doors that lock, and an ignition that
>locks. Each of these may be either a physical lock that uses a key, and
>which requires the Lockpicking Skill to bypass, or an electronic lock that
>uses a number combination, and which requires the Security Systems Skill to
>get past. In both cases the Skill Roll for overcoming the lock without the
>key is unmodified.
<snip>
How about just modelling it as a Force Field, 0 End Persistent, Only vs
Lockpicking (-1)? Each 1 pt of FF gives -1 on the skill roll. EG A
vehicle with a 6 DEF lock forces the character to make his skill roll
at -6.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:59:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint
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On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Dave Mattingly wrote:
> >40 10" Flight, Invisible Power Effects - sight, 0 END
>
> What does the IPE do for his flight?
Stanis simply lifts off into the air. No wings, glowing trail, blazing
aura etc, etc. Technically, his flight sould be silent too, I forgot that
one.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint
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>>>>> "DM" == Dave Mattingly <DaveM@FocusSoft.com> writes:
>> 40 10" Flight, Invisible Power Effects - sight, 0 END
DM> What does the IPE do for his flight?
It means the effects of his flight are not visible to normal sight.
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Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:45:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>
> > >40 10" Flight, Invisible Power Effects - sight, 0 END
> >
> > What does the IPE do for his flight?
>
> Stanis simply lifts off into the air. No wings, glowing trail, blazing
> aura etc, etc. Technically, his flight sould be silent too, I forgot that
> one.
>
I've seen people build Flight with IPE before, but I've never charged for
it in any of my games. I consider the visible effect of flight to be the
fact that you're hanging in the air. You say a power is supposed to be
visible to at least 3 sense groups? Okay, your voice sounds like it's
coming from above and your scent is clearly drifting down.
It just seems pointless to make the power Flight different from the most
frequent effect of the power in comics. Superman doesn't have wings or
glow - and I always thought the TV show's wooshing was kind of dumb. Thor,
Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, Capt. Marvel, the LSH,
etc. all have this kind of flight - the winged and glowing flyers are
definite minorities.
I realize that Champions powers aren't necessarily built to match the most
frequent depictions of those powers in comics, but rather as the building
blocks necessary to make just about any effects. Hence, Mind Control does
not have Telepathy built into it, and Telepathy doesn't imply Mind
Control. But Flight with invisible effects is where I draw the line - I
just don't want to run games with a bunch of glowing heroes all the time.
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:04:07 -0400 (AST)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint
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On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> > >40 10" Flight, Invisible Power Effects - sight, 0 END
> >
> > What does the IPE do for his flight?
>
> Stanis simply lifts off into the air. No wings, glowing trail, blazing
> aura etc, etc. Technically, his flight sould be silent too, I forgot that
> one.
The discussion of Special Effects at the beginning of the Powers section
implies pretty strongly that the glowing trail schtick is strictly
optional; not having one isn't something you should pay extra for.
Invisible Flight would imply that people can't tell he's flying, just like
you can't tell that somebody firing an Invisible Energy Blast is launching
an attack.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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>>>>> "BS" == Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu> writes:
BS> I've seen people build Flight with IPE before, but I've never charged
BS> for it in any of my games. I consider the visible effect of flight to
BS> be the fact that you're hanging in the air.
The fact that I am hanging in the air is not a special effect. Whatever is
keeping me that way is. If you cannot detect what it is that is holding me
aloft, I need IPE on my Flight.
Or can I get IPE for free on my Energy Blast? I mean, you can see the
damage it does, and hear the breaking of things I hit, etc.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
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\
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:08:08 -0400 (AST)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Help?
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On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Todd Hanson wrote:
> If you make the wrestler take the 'you fall' on all of his maneuvers
> (which wrestling SHOULD do) then he is going to end every action lying
> on the ground and will spend every combat being GMO'd on phase 12.
Body Slam, Power Bomb, Tombstone Piledriver, Backdrop, Shoulderbreaker,
Chokeslam. There are plenty of throws available to a pro wrestler which
don't logically entail the attacker ending up prone.
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:10:14 -0400 (AST)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Characteristics
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On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >Cumulative? On Mind Control? Does that really belong in a paragraph
> >allegedly describing the by-the-book rules?
>
> See The Ultimate Mentalist, page 77.
Can't, I've never seen a copy of said book. The contents of the Ultimate
books really don't count as part of the "book rules" anyway, IMO.
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:12:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> > > >40 10" Flight, Invisible Power Effects - sight, 0 END
> > >
> > > What does the IPE do for his flight?
> >
> > Stanis simply lifts off into the air. No wings, glowing trail, blazing
> > aura etc, etc. Technically, his flight sould be silent too, I forgot that
> > one.
>
> I've seen people build Flight with IPE before, but I've never charged for
> it in any of my games. I consider the visible effect of flight to be the
> fact that you're hanging in the air. You say a power is supposed to be
> visible to at least 3 sense groups? Okay, your voice sounds like it's
> coming from above and your scent is clearly drifting down.
<shrug> All adaptions I send to the list are built according to the lowest
common denominator. No 'house rules' of other GM's permission powers. I
try and design stuff to be in accordance to the basic rules.
> It just seems pointless to make the power Flight different from the most
> frequent effect of the power in comics. Superman doesn't have wings or
> glow - and I always thought the TV show's wooshing was kind of dumb. Thor,
> Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, Capt. Marvel, the LSH,
> etc. all have this kind of flight - the winged and glowing flyers are
> definite minorities.
I can buy that. But powers are used in more than Supers games, and will
usually have all sorts of different effects. Actually, all the other
flyers in _Mage_ *do* have visual effects. Mirth has his green bubbles
and the Umbre Sprite has a glowing yellow field around his body.
House rules are great since they allow the GM to custom make his world to
fit into a certain style. And giving flight IPE by default in a 4-color
game doesn't sound that imbalancing.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:15:48 -0400 (AST)
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Help?
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On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Todd Hanson wrote:
> > Eh. I know you don't want to get too detailed, but I have difficulty with
> > the idea of an armdrag and a hurricarana being mechanically identical.
>
> Why? The name of the maneuver means nothing, the effect is what is
> important. In both cases you are throwing your opponent to the mat (although
> the hurricarana obviously uses more force,
Exactly. The effects are not the same at all in this case. An armdrag is
a low-impact weardown move; a hurricarana is a finisher.
If I were building a pro-wrestler, I'd probably buy extra DCs with a
Limitation giving an OCV penalty proportional to the number used. The DCs
activated would simulate the magnitude of the move being used.
Of course, the problem with this is that the HERO system for some reason
fails to impose CV penalties for worn-down characters. You could rephrase
the Limitation so that you only got the OCV penalty when using it on an
insufficiently-hurt character, though.
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:41:06 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: TUSV: Hanging Onto the Edge
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At 10:57 AM 12/5/97 -0500, Dave Mattingly wrote:
>Excellent rules! But I have two questions:
>
>>If a character wants to pull himself back on top of the vehicle,
>>he must take a Phase and make a STR Roll;
>
>Why a STR roll, and not a Climbing roll?
Brain failure on my part. It should take a Phase and a STR Roll, or a
half Phase and a Climbing Roll.
>>A character who falls off a moving vehicle roll the damage
>>as though the vehicle had done a Move By on him
>
>What if the vehicle is going non-combat? Have you decided on the
>non-combat move by and move through rules?
Actually, no; I should probably make that rule into the less of Move By
or Knockback damage, though.
Oh, and Move Bys and Move Throughs at noncombat speeds are handled just
like normal Move Bys and Move Throughs, except that OCV and DCV are halved
(or DCV determined by velocity) before any other modifiers.
In other words, if a character falls off a sports car going 80 miles per
hour and slams into a telephone pole, he's going to have a really bad owie.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
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Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:50:56 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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At 04:45 PM 12/5/97 -0500, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>> > >40 10" Flight, Invisible Power Effects - sight, 0 END
>> >
>> > What does the IPE do for his flight?
>>
>> Stanis simply lifts off into the air. No wings, glowing trail, blazing
>> aura etc, etc. Technically, his flight sould be silent too, I forgot that
>> one.
>
>I've seen people build Flight with IPE before, but I've never charged for
>it in any of my games. I consider the visible effect of flight to be the
>fact that you're hanging in the air. You say a power is supposed to be
>visible to at least 3 sense groups? Okay, your voice sounds like it's
>coming from above and your scent is clearly drifting down.
>
>It just seems pointless to make the power Flight different from the most
>frequent effect of the power in comics. Superman doesn't have wings or
>glow - and I always thought the TV show's wooshing was kind of dumb. Thor,
>Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, Capt. Marvel, the LSH,
>etc. all have this kind of flight - the winged and glowing flyers are
>definite minorities.
The whooshing is really fairly logical and realistic. It's part of why
skydivers (in real life) can't speak to each other; the rushing wind is too
loud. (OK, that doesn't necessarily imply that people beyond the moving
person hear the whooshing noise too. I know there's an example of that
being demonstrated somewhere, but I'm a little groggy today and can't think
of it right offhand.)
>I realize that Champions powers aren't necessarily built to match the most
>frequent depictions of those powers in comics, but rather as the building
>blocks necessary to make just about any effects. Hence, Mind Control does
>not have Telepathy built into it, and Telepathy doesn't imply Mind
>Control. But Flight with invisible effects is where I draw the line - I
>just don't want to run games with a bunch of glowing heroes all the time.
Aside from the above nitpick, I'm with you, Bill.
---
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Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:55:43 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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At 05:12 PM 12/5/97 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>> It just seems pointless to make the power Flight different from the most
>> frequent effect of the power in comics. Superman doesn't have wings or
>> glow - and I always thought the TV show's wooshing was kind of dumb. Thor,
>> Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, Capt. Marvel, the LSH,
>> etc. all have this kind of flight - the winged and glowing flyers are
>> definite minorities.
>
>I can buy that. But powers are used in more than Supers games, and will
>usually have all sorts of different effects. Actually, all the other
>flyers in _Mage_ *do* have visual effects. Mirth has his green bubbles
>and the Umbre Sprite has a glowing yellow field around his body.
>
>House rules are great since they allow the GM to custom make his world to
>fit into a certain style. And giving flight IPE by default in a 4-color
>game doesn't sound that imbalancing.
I'll go along with this, to an extent -- not as a "house rule," but as
an effect of the campaign setting. A lot of stuff in Hero, even by
default, depends on the campaign setting; the most obvious example is the
layout of Everyman Skills, which vary from one setting to another.
So in most superhero settings, the Power Effect that would be Invisible
with Flight IPE is being overhead; in the Mage setting, everyone has some
kind of visible effect (like the green bubbles and the yellow field),
meaning that IPE lets a character do this without the visible effect.
The only question is, just what advantage is there to Flight IPE? I
mean, the real advantage of IPE is that others can't tell you're using the
Power. Energy Blast with Invisible Power Effects means that you can use
the EB without others knowing about it, or at least being able to tell that
you're the one behind it. Flight with Invisible Power Effects would mean
that, while it may be obvious that you're moving, others can't tell that
you're flying. At least, that's how I read it.
---
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Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 18:03:23 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Invisible Power Effects
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By definition, all powers (excluding mental) have Visible power
effects. They can be sensed by at least three sense groups. Am I
correct?
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:28:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Reply-To: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Invisible Power Effects
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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ALONE AT MIDNIGHT writes:
> By definition, all powers (excluding mental) have Visible power
> effects. They can be sensed by at least three sense groups. Am I
> correct?
>
No. All powers (except mental) which normally cost END are visible (buying a
power to 0 END cost does not make it invisible); I usually call this 'all
powers which are by default persistent' to deal with things such as missile
deflection being by default invisible. Also, the description of density
increase states that it is not visible (except, of course, to things which
detect weight), and many GMs choose to assume that images is also a special
case (i.e. the image itself is visible, but the source of the power is not).
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 18:50:30 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Invisible Power Effects
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ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> By definition, all powers (excluding mental) have Visible power
>effects. They can be sensed by at least three sense groups. Am I
>correct?
>
Yes, but the current debate is based upon *what* that default effect must
be (esp. for Flight). Is it a glowing field, sonic boom, and smell of
sulfur; or is it that you can see and hear (and smell, I suppose) the guy
while he is flying.
If the guy looked like he was falling sideways, out of control, would this
be IPE? 'Cause it looks like he's not really flying... (Greatest American
Hero, anyone?)
- Jerry
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:37:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> The only question is, just what advantage is there to Flight IPE? I
> mean, the real advantage of IPE is that others can't tell you're using the
> Power. Energy Blast with Invisible Power Effects means that you can use
> the EB without others knowing about it, or at least being able to tell that
> you're the one behind it. Flight with Invisible Power Effects would mean
> that, while it may be obvious that you're moving, others can't tell that
> you're flying. At least, that's how I read it.
No, as Vox said, no one can tell *how* you are flying. Also, consider
this, with Flight IPE, I don't have sort of FX that might give me away
*before* I arrive on the scene, or to an observer elsewhere. Also,
consider this, if Stanis is using his flight power at night, or in a dark
room, who is going to know to look up? If I have glowing green bubbles or
a yellow aura, people are going to spot me right away.
***************************************************************************
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* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
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* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
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X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 21:07:06 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Invisible Power Effects
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Rook wrote:
Incidentally, he was replying to me (Jeremiah Driscoll):
>> Yes, but the current debate is based upon *what* that default effect must
>> be (esp. for Flight). Is it a glowing field, sonic boom, and smell of
>> sulfur; or is it that you can see and hear (and smell, I suppose) the guy
>> while he is flying.
>>
>> If the guy looked like he was falling sideways, out of control, would this
>> be IPE? 'Cause it looks like he's not really flying... (Greatest American
>> Hero, anyone?)
>>
> Hmmm
>I don't think that's the current debate so much.
>
>What is the default? Anything that fits three senses. There is no specific
>default to any special effect in Champions or Hero system
>
Very true. With the exception of (maybe) Density Increase (although it's
*possible* to do it w/o an increase in density) or Growth (usually you get
bigger) or Shrinking (usually, Non-Shrinking Shrinking aside : ), you get
smaller).
But Visible Density Increase would still have to be visible to three senses.
I guess there's a difference between SFX and Visibility, anyway.
>I think the debate here is more one of
>does being visable flying and obviously moving caount as visable or
invisible?
>
Yeah, I suppose that was a poor choice of wording on my account. I agree
with the way you put it... does moving through the air count as a Sight
component for visible? Does being able to hear the guy still count as the
Sound component?
That sounds like the debate.
- Jerry
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:53:05 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Re: Characteristics
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> > >Cumulative? On Mind Control? Does that really belong in a paragraph
> > >allegedly describing the by-the-book rules?
> >
> > See The Ultimate Mentalist, page 77.
>
> Can't, I've never seen a copy of said book. The contents of the Ultimate
> books really don't count as part of the "book rules" anyway, IMO.
Actually, they've basically become accepted as such, mostly
because they expand on areas that were under explained and under
fleshed-out in the BBB. In this case, then example of a mind control that
slowly affects it's target -- a valid SFX in the source material, but not
doable in Hero. Therefore, a rule is inserted into a new product to cover
this situation. "Core" rules, maybe not -- "book" rules, yes.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:19:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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On 5 Dec 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> >>>>> "BS" == Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu> writes:
>
> BS> I've seen people build Flight with IPE before, but I've never charged
> BS> for it in any of my games. I consider the visible effect of flight to
> BS> be the fact that you're hanging in the air.
>
> The fact that I am hanging in the air is not a special effect. Whatever is
> keeping me that way is. If you cannot detect what it is that is holding me
> aloft, I need IPE on my Flight.
>
The advantage in this is awfully slim. If my force of will makes me glow,
or turns my eyes green, or makes me smell funny, then my Flight has
visible effects, but observers still can't really tell what is holding me
aloft.
> Or can I get IPE for free on my Energy Blast? I mean, you can see the
> damage it does, and hear the breaking of things I hit, etc.
If you have to point your arm or your weapon to fire the thing, I'd
consider the gestures a visible effect. (I suppose you could call it IPE
with Gestures, but why bother?) Remember the guns in the movie Logan's
Run? They were probably the result of a low budget, but I always
considered them relatively realistic energy weapons - there was a small
burst of flame on the muzzle, but no visible beam.
If it's clear where the source of the power is, whether a Sandman with a
gun, Popinjay with a pointed finger, or Superman confidently floating in
the air, I'd be willing to consider the power visible.
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:38:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 04:45 PM 12/5/97 -0500, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
[snip]
> >
> >It just seems pointless to make the power Flight different from the most
> >frequent effect of the power in comics. Superman doesn't have wings or
> >glow - and I always thought the TV show's wooshing was kind of dumb.
> The whooshing is really fairly logical and realistic. It's part of why
> skydivers (in real life) can't speak to each other; the rushing wind is too
> loud. (OK, that doesn't necessarily imply that people beyond the moving
> person hear the whooshing noise too. I know there's an example of that
> being demonstrated somewhere, but I'm a little groggy today and can't think
> of it right offhand.)
>
I'm glad you agree with me on my main point, Bob, but I'll pick this nit
with you. I doubt the human body displaces enough air to make that loud a
wooshing - certainly not a wooshing which can be heard hundreds of feet
away as often happened in the old Superman TV series. Large birds can be
heard when they flap their wings, but when they're gliding they can be
quite silent despite their size and velocity. In fact, if somebody drops a
piano on my head, I'm not sure I'd hear that wooshing. (I am not
willing to test this.)
A better test case might be someone on a swing. The swinger will hear the
wind whip past his or her ears, but if the swingset isn't squeaky, I
doubt anybody else will hear them moving. Of course, someone on a swing
probably moves a lot slower than most Champs flyers, but I'm not sure the
extra velocity will make that much of a difference.
On a related topic, I have heard pretty convincing arguments that a
human-sized object breaking the sound barrier would *not* cause a
significant sonic boom - once again, because relatively little air is
being displaced.
I will gladly defer to the opinion of anyone with a more expert opinion on
this stuff, though.
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:47:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
[snip]>
> > It just seems pointless to make the power Flight different from the most
> > frequent effect of the power in comics. Superman doesn't have wings or
> > glow - and I always thought the TV show's wooshing was kind of dumb. Thor,
> > Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, Capt. Marvel, the LSH,
> > etc. all have this kind of flight - the winged and glowing flyers are
> > definite minorities.
>
> I can buy that. But powers are used in more than Supers games, and will
> usually have all sorts of different effects. Actually, all the other
> flyers in _Mage_ *do* have visual effects. Mirth has his green bubbles
> and the Umbre Sprite has a glowing yellow field around his body.
>
> House rules are great since they allow the GM to custom make his world to
> fit into a certain style. And giving flight IPE by default in a 4-color
> game doesn't sound that imbalancing.
Since you point out that most flyers in _Mage_ do have visual effects, I
can see the point to buyin IPE. While we could debate the semantics of the
term "house rule", I think I essentially agree with you on this issue.
I also think I'll check out Mage again. I've flipped through it a few
times and never really got into it, but your write-ups have gotten me
curious.
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 00:02:49 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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At 11:19 PM 12/5/97 -0500, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
>On 5 Dec 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
>> Or can I get IPE for free on my Energy Blast? I mean, you can see the
>> damage it does, and hear the breaking of things I hit, etc.
>
>If you have to point your arm or your weapon to fire the thing, I'd
>consider the gestures a visible effect. (I suppose you could call it IPE
>with Gestures, but why bother?) Remember the guns in the movie Logan's
>Run? They were probably the result of a low budget, but I always
>considered them relatively realistic energy weapons - there was a small
>burst of flame on the muzzle, but no visible beam.
>
Okay, so these (and other firearms which are muzzle-flash suppressed, or
silenced) would be IPE: Sight, Gestures, OAF?
>If it's clear where the source of the power is, whether a Sandman with a
>gun, Popinjay with a pointed finger, or Superman confidently floating in
>the air, I'd be willing to consider the power visible.
>
I realize that you probably didn't mean it this way, but I almost thought
you were saying all three of these could be visible *attacks*... Actually,
I would just about allow this. The first two are obvious (I'm not sure who
Popinjay is...) but the third one could be Supes (or J'onn J'onzz) using
his heat vision on the thugs' guns... They get super-hot, and, as long as
Supes is up there, it's *obvious* who did it...
But, actually, I still don't think this is the definition of visible. If
Popinjay (again, I don't know the character) simply points, and there is an
effect, but could point from hiding, and not be discovered... this'd be
IPE, Gestures, as you said in another post. Same thing with Supes,
although w/o Gestures.
I've thought about IPEs before... In the BBB, Viper (excuse me, VIPER)
agents had silenced/flash suppressed guns, which were IPE: Sight + Sound (I
don't know what they *were* visible to...). However, it mentions in the
write-up of Firewing (Classic Enemies) that he can use his Invisible EB
against opponents w/ Missle Deflect, and they cannot deflect it, they can't
tell he's blasting until they get hit.
These seem to be two different versions of this power. I'm not sure which
I *would* use (I've never had a player want this...). Can someone give
their interpretations, official or house rules?
- Jerry
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 05:16:28 +0000
From: ORT2 <ORT2@prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ORT2@prodigy.net
Organization: Prodigy Internet
CC: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Making the Speedster
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Rook wrote:
>
> OK;
> despite 13 years as a Champions GM, I've only ever made one
> speedster, a villian in my first ever
> game.
> However I've decided to try the concept as my PC for an upcoming
> table top game.
>
Rook,
Gee... for the points allowed it has been my experience that it is
really hard to design a decent speedster. Most of the power effects you
described could be used. However, the Flash running through a prism and
being split into 7 different "personalities" seems out there. However
other goods ones are things like autofire punches, area effect punches
with the limitation must be able to run into the area of attact, (both
bought as energy blasts with the proper anount of damage and
limitations) and perhaps desolid.
If you get one worked out I would be interested in seeing it.
Also, your Web Page looks good!
Lastly, I have tried to run a PeBM game once, to much work for
student (which after leaving High School 20 years I am again).
If you get yours off the ground, consider me as a possible
player if you come up short.
Owen
No signature
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 23:31:59 -0600
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: Help?
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Trevor Barrie wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Todd Hanson wrote:
>
> > If you make the wrestler take the 'you fall' on all of his maneuvers
> > (which wrestling SHOULD do) then he is going to end every action lying
> > on the ground and will spend every combat being GMO'd on phase 12.
>
> Body Slam, Power Bomb, Tombstone Piledriver, Backdrop, Shoulderbreaker,
> Chokeslam. There are plenty of throws available to a pro wrestler which
> don't logically entail the attacker ending up prone.
Sure, there are several moves you CAN do without ending up prone, but there
are many more which DO leave you prone. The idea was to take a martial art
(pro wrestling) and make it workable in a super hero campaign. Designing the
moves to be 'realistic' would work fine in a campaign where you fought
opponents one on one, but in a superhero campaign (where you usually fight
another 'team' of supers), a good many of the more colorful moves would be
out of the question because it would leave you as a sitting duck. This
wasn't the effect I was trying to accomplish. I didn't want to have to
avoid the most common wrestling moves because it would result in me being
GMO'd before I got another action.
Todd
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 23:38:58 -0600
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net>
Subject: Re: Help?
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Trevor Barrie wrote:
> If I were building a pro-wrestler, I'd probably buy extra DCs with a
> Limitation giving an OCV penalty proportional to the number used. The DCs
> activated would simulate the magnitude of the move being used.
You're missing the point entirely. The object wasn't to make pro wrestling as
realistic as possible, it was to allow a character to be a colorful pro
wrestler/superhero. Combats are already long enough without putting in all kinds
of unnecessary extra rules and limitations.
It doesn't matter what you CALL the move - what matters is the effect. I can say
I'm using a headbutt or a forearm or kick to the chin - it's still my martial
strike. I hit him, I do damage. If I say I'm using a bodyslam or an arm drag or a
hurricarana, the result is still the same - I damage my opponent and put him on the
ground. If the special effects of the move say I should also hit the ground, then
special effects say I hop back to my feet before anybody takes advantage of my
position (wrestlers do it all the time)
Todd
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 01:12:55 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Organization: Sujin & Brian
Subject: Making the Speedster
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OK;
despite 13 years as a Champions GM, I've only ever made one
speedster, a villian in my first ever
game.
However I've decided to try the concept as my PC for an upcoming
table top game.
I'm dealing with 100 points + disads, as many disads as desired.
The question is what does such a character need powers wise.
Obviously their's having a speed score way above campaign average.
And the high Dex.
I'm also thinking autofire strength. Missile Deflection. And Clinging
with a minimum velocity limitation.
What else do I need, what else fits the concept?
Is there a way to simulate someone who can run and react faster than
light? I went out today and grabbed
one issue each of Flash, Impulse, Quicksilver, and Velocity in order to
get ideas.
Things I saw was Flash outrunning a laser. Flash using his speed to
carry a villian in an air bubble.
Flash running into a prism at faster than light and therefore being
split into seven component personalties /
people. Impulse spinning a hail of bullets into the group with wind.
Impulse waving his hands fast enough
to create enough wind to stop a speeding truck.
The other two comics didn't feature any special power stunts. They
just provided some insight into the
mentality.
Any ideas on speedsters?
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 07:40:36 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Making the Speedster
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Armor or Damage Reduction, requires DEX roll, representing a super-
dodge. Extra SPD, only useable while Running, Teleportation, only places
where the character could run to, Danger Sense, Lightning Calculator,
the ever popular four-color 'molecular agitation' Desolidification or
Dimensional/Time travel powers, HA with Range (the 'wind punch'),
Clinging linked with Running (for running up the sides of those pesky
sky-scrapers), Flight linked with Running (only on the surface of water),
Detect objects that may be in your path that would give you a big
ouchie if you bumped into them, Non-shrinking Shrinking (just because),
Life Support (handy for breathing at Mach 3; also UAO for air pockets),
TK (the four color 'I'll just run in circles until a big tornado picks up
the villian'), Supress: Fire (...wow! Captain speed ran _so_ fast he sucked
all of the oxygen away from the fire!), Missile Deflection/Reflection,
and lots of END. Lots of END.
If your going for a four-color flavor, I'd go with a VPP. They do
'everything' with super-speed.
If you could punch someone so fast that no one (but the person getting
punched) would notice, would that count as invisible power effects?
...and what speedster would be complete without Insta-change?
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:24:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
> At 11:19 PM 12/5/97 -0500, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> >
>
> >If it's clear where the source of the power is, whether a Sandman with a
> >gun, Popinjay with a pointed finger, or Superman confidently floating in
> >the air, I'd be willing to consider the power visible.
> >
[snip]
>
> But, actually, I still don't think this is the definition of visible. If
> Popinjay (again, I don't know the character) simply points, and there is an
> effect, but could point from hiding, and not be discovered... this'd be
> IPE, Gestures, as you said in another post. Same thing with Supes,
> although w/o Gestures.
>
Popinjay is Jay Ackroyd, a character in the Wild Cards books who can
teleport people by pointing his finger like a gun and making a popping
noise. Depending on how far away he was and a hearing PER roll, I suppose
the popping noise could give him away as well. Should he still have IPE?
The visible to 3 senses rule can be really constraining. Sight & Sound can
be pretty easy, but few GM's allow the targets sense of touch as they feel
the effect to be considered a legitimate "visible" effect. Taste is just
plain silly in most cases, the weirder "sense groups" (Radio, etc.) can be
tough to justify, so for the third group we're generally left with Smell.
This means most powers stink.
Should most normal guns be built with IPE because they have no visible
beam? The muzzle flash for a handgun isn't terribly visible in daylight,
after all. While IPE works nicely to simulate silencers, it seems absurd
to have to buy every gun with the advantage.
As somebody already mentioned, the "glowing trail for flight" paragraph in
the special effects section certainly implies that it's an optional effect
for the power. I think this is largely a case where what the Hero writers
intended and what they said aren't quite the same. Yes, this is a slippery
slope, but there are times where I choose to go with the spirit of the
rules rather than the letter.
From: Egyptoid <Egyptoid@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:47:32 EST
Subject: Re: CHAR: Red Cap
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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This ain't anime! You feelin okay?
:)
ell-man
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 09:59:44 -0500 (EST)
From: ALONE AT MIDNIGHT <RAVANOS@jcs1.jcstate.edu>
Subject: Regenerating limbs
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Do characters with regeneration regenerate limbs? If they
can, how much would they need to heal to regenerate, lets say, an
arm?
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 07:31:50 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Characteristics
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At 06:10 PM 12/5/97 -0400, Trevor Barrie wrote:
>On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> >Cumulative? On Mind Control? Does that really belong in a paragraph
>> >allegedly describing the by-the-book rules?
>>
>> See The Ultimate Mentalist, page 77.
>
>Can't, I've never seen a copy of said book. The contents of the Ultimate
>books really don't count as part of the "book rules" anyway, IMO.
But at least what I was citing was by *a* book. You application of
Armor Piercing PRE cutting PRE in half for purposes of effect, and Armor
Piercing Mental Powers cutting EGO in half for purposes of effect, is not.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 07:38:17 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight
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To: champ-l@omg.org
At 07:35 AM 12/5/97 -0600, Vox Ludator! wrote:
>At 02:55 PM 12/5/97 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> The only question is, just what advantage is there to Flight IPE? I
>>mean, the real advantage of IPE is that others can't tell you're using the
>>Power. Energy Blast with Invisible Power Effects means that you can use
>>the EB without others knowing about it, or at least being able to tell that
>>you're the one behind it. Flight with Invisible Power Effects would mean
>>that, while it may be obvious that you're moving, others can't tell that
>>you're flying. At least, that's how I read it.
>
>This is a little like saying "quarterbacks are useless players in football",
>contigent on you using the pre-forward pass rules. After all, you start by
>changing part of the game, saying "I don't like Flight requiring visible
>FX", THEN make the statement that "IPE has no useful effect on Flight". No,
>it has no useful effect on YOUR VERSION of Flight -- it has no useful effect
>because you're giving it away for free!
>
>The "canon" (if there is such a thing under the official "wishy-washy"
>company stance) rule is that, yes, Flight requires 3 sense groups for SFX.
>This is not necessarily a difficult thing to do -- Iron Man, for example,
>can be heard (roar of rockets), seen (flame flash under boots) and detected
>by thermal senses. All those characters with "force of will" flight,
>according to the standard rules, SHOULD buy it IPE.
But that doesn't answer my question. Apparently you misunderstood it,
so I'll state it more specifically: what real advantage, either combat or
campaign oriented, does a character who flies by "force of will" have over
one who, for example, is surrounded by little green spheres when he flies,
especially in light of the brief discussion of Flight special effects under
"Special Effects" in the "General Rules" section of "Powers" (HSR, p 53,
first column, last paragraph)?
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 08:03:52 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Regenerating limbs
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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At 09:59 AM 12/6/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> Do characters with regeneration regenerate limbs? If they
>can, how much would they need to heal to regenerate, lets say, an
>arm?
The last I saw, officially, no. For character concepts that need this,
I usually allow a +1/2 "House Rule" advantage, "Regrows Limbs," which can
be applied to REC, Aid (with the Healing option), or Regeneration.
How much BODY needs to be healed? As much as it took to cut off the
limb.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
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Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:09:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight
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On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
> I've thought about IPEs before... In the BBB, Viper (excuse me, VIPER)
> agents had silenced/flash suppressed guns, which were IPE: Sight + Sound (I
> don't know what they *were* visible to...). However, it mentions in the
> write-up of Firewing (Classic Enemies) that he can use his Invisible EB
> against opponents w/ Missle Deflect, and they cannot deflect it, they can't
> tell he's blasting until they get hit.
>
> These seem to be two different versions of this power. I'm not sure which
> I *would* use (I've never had a player want this...). Can someone give
> their interpretations, official or house rules?
In Dark Champions (as well as my campaigns and at least one other
Champions book) suppressors were bought as IPE Sight (and or sound), OAF:
Gun. This ment they had no real muzzle flash or gunshot effect. About
the only thing they would be visiable to was smell (and only at close
range).
I have felt (and have used) the ruling that Blocks (and Missle
Defelection) can't be used on things you can't see. So someone with IPE
punches or an EB can't have their attacks blocked by people with normal
sight and vision. The IPE punches would require (say...) Spatial
Awareness while Firewings IPE EB would certainly be visible to IR vision.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
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Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 08:10:44 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Making the Speedster
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At 01:12 AM 12/6/97 -0800, Rook wrote:
>OK;
> despite 13 years as a Champions GM, I've only ever made one
>speedster, a villian in my first ever
>game.
> However I've decided to try the concept as my PC for an upcoming
>table top game.
>
>I'm dealing with 100 points + disads, as many disads as desired.
>
>The question is what does such a character need powers wise.
>
>Obviously their's having a speed score way above campaign average.
>And the high Dex.
Don't go overboard on this. If a typical brick is 20 DEX/4 SPD, most
types are 23/5, and martial artists are 26/6, let your speedster start no
higher than 29/7; this will allow more points for "speedster tricks."
>I'm also thinking autofire strength. Missile Deflection. And Clinging
>with a minimum velocity limitation.
I assume that the Clinging is to simulate things like running up and
down the side of buildings, right? Try Flight, Only Along a Surface (which
is typically treated as a -1/2 Limitation). This will also allow running
on the surface of water as well as on the ground and vertical surfaces.
> What else do I need, what else fits the concept?
Keep the actual combat speed moderate, but buy *lots* of Non-Combat
Multiplier on that Flight.
>Is there a way to simulate someone who can run and react faster than
>light? I went out today and grabbed
>one issue each of Flash, Impulse, Quicksilver, and Velocity in order to
>get ideas.
Looking at speedster comics is a good idea. I'd wait on the FTL thing,
though; there's no real good way to work this in Champions. (I personally
waive the "no FTL in atmoshere" rule for Desolid characters, but that's a
house rule.)
> Things I saw was Flash outrunning a laser. Flash using his speed to
>carry a villian in an air bubble.
>Flash running into a prism at faster than light and therefore being
>split into seven component personalties /
>people. Impulse spinning a hail of bullets into the group with wind.
>Impulse waving his hands fast enough
>to create enough wind to stop a speeding truck.
I can only give a suggestion for duplicating this last trick:
Telekinesis, AE: Line, No Range, Only Away From User (-1).
I would recommend taking a complete pass on the prism trick. I don't
have access to the comic in question, but this strikes me as more of a plot
device than a regular trick.
> The other two comics didn't feature any special power stunts. They
>just provided some insight into the
>mentality.
>
>Any ideas on speedsters?
Someone once made a collection of "Speedster Tricks," and if it hasn't
already been posted, expect it real soon. Personally I recommend keeping
it on hand for experience, and just keeping your guy simple at first.
Sure, use the Autofore STR, Missile Deflection, running on water and
vertical surfaces, and such; there are only two other tricks I'd recommend
for a beginning character, though.
One is Instant Change.
The other is Overall Skill Levels bought at -1: Only to Offset Time
Penalties. With four of these, the character can do in a single Phase a
task that would normally take an hour.
Oh, and you could also ask your GM whether he prefers these Skill
Levels, Transform, or Change Environment for the act of cleaning a room in
the blink of an eye. This does seem fitting for a beginning speedster.
---
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Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:18:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Making the Speedster
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Rook wrote:
> Obviously their's having a speed score way above campaign average.
> And the high Dex.
Some people wil argue that point. It's not the DEX and SPD that makes
them speedsters, its the way you use powers.
> I'm also thinking autofire strength. Missile Deflection. And Clinging
> with a minimum velocity limitation.
We've bought the high speed punch affect like this: xd6 Hand Attack, STR
does not add (-1/2), Advantage of your choice.
What this means is that you select the HA dice to your desired level of
affect. Your base STR has no bearing on this damage level, but you still
need to actually throw physical punches to make the atatck work. You
thanadd in advantages like Autofire (5 or more punhces in a split second),
Penetrating (the punches hit so fast and so close together that *some*
STUN will get through), or IPE: sight (you are punch faster than your
opponent can see).
Missile Deflection is fine. Instead of Clinging just buy Flight, "Only
along a surface" (-1/2). This will let your run up buildings and over
water.
> What else do I need, what else fits the concept?
>
> Is there a way to simulate someone who can run and react faster than
> light? I went out today and grabbed
A lot of powers with IPE: sight and Teleportation instead of Running (or
Flight).
> one issue each of Flash, Impulse, Quicksilver, and Velocity in order to
> get ideas.
> Things I saw was Flash outrunning a laser. Flash using his speed to
> carry a villian in an air bubble.
Consider the former note there. How do you out run something that is
moving at the speed of light? Pnce you see the laser, its hit you...
The other part is TK.
> Flash running into a prism at faster than light and therefore being
> split into seven component personalties /
> people.
Uh... well... a really weird version of Duplication?
> Impulse spinning a hail of bullets into the group with wind.
Missile Reflection.
> Impulse waving his hands fast enough
> to create enough wind to stop a speeding truck.
TK.
There is also the Change Enviroment trick of "Super Speed Effects" that
allows you to clean a room in seconds etc.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
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***************************************************************************
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:25:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Making the Speedster
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> Armor or Damage Reduction, requires DEX roll, representing a super-
> dodge.
Sounds good to me. Also adding "Only if Aware of Attack" (-1/4) sounds
good.
> Extra SPD, only useable while Running,
Not in my game. I think it is generally consider very abusive to have
Extra SPD linked to a specific power. It also plays havoc with things
like REC, and recovery from Stunning.
> Teleportation, only places
> where the character could run to, Danger Sense, Lightning Calculator,
> the ever popular four-color 'molecular agitation' Desolidification or
> Dimensional/Time travel powers, HA with Range (the 'wind punch'),
All good effects.
> Clinging linked with Running (for running up the sides of those pesky
> sky-scrapers), Flight linked with Running (only on the surface of water),
See several previous notes about simply buying Flight, "Only along a
surface" (-1/2)
> Detect objects that may be in your path that would give you a big
> ouchie if you bumped into them, Non-shrinking Shrinking (just because),
> Life Support (handy for breathing at Mach 3; also UAO for air pockets),
LS is not specficily needed even if you do run at Mach 3. The air pocket
is part of the SFX. Now, UAO isn't a bad idea if you intend to carry
someone.
> TK (the four color 'I'll just run in circles until a big tornado picks up
> the villian'), Supress: Fire (...wow! Captain speed ran _so_ fast he sucked
> all of the oxygen away from the fire!), Missile Deflection/Reflection,
> and lots of END. Lots of END.
> If you could punch someone so fast that no one (but the person getting
> punched) would notice, would that count as invisible power effects?
Yes. And an IPE punch can't be blocked (unless your target has unusal
senses).
> ...and what speedster would be complete without Insta-change?
Yep.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
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***************************************************************************
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:26:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: CHAR: Red Cap
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Egyptoid wrote:
> This ain't anime! You feelin okay?
I feel fine.
And next up (just for you!): Big Trouble in Little China!
"Do things no one else can do! See things no one else can see!"
"What does this potion do again?"
"Gives buzz!"
"It's all in the reflexes."
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
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X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 13:27:02 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Making the Speedster
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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At 08:10 AM 12/6/97 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 01:12 AM 12/6/97 -0800, Rook wrote:
>>Is there a way to simulate someone who can run and react faster than
>>light? I went out today and grabbed
>>one issue each of Flash, Impulse, Quicksilver, and Velocity in order to
>>get ideas.
>
> Looking at speedster comics is a good idea. I'd wait on the FTL thing,
>though; there's no real good way to work this in Champions. (I personally
>waive the "no FTL in atmoshere" rule for Desolid characters, but that's a
>house rule.)
>
Plus, if you're using the comics as the basis (Wally West, Flash, at
least), you should probably start off slower (say, Mach 1) and work your
way up. Wally didn't do that Speed Force stuff for awhile...
>> Things I saw was Flash outrunning a laser. Flash using his speed to
>>carry a villian in an air bubble.
>>Flash running into a prism at faster than light and therefore being
>>split into seven component personalties /
>>people.
>
> I would recommend taking a complete pass on the prism trick. I don't
>have access to the comic in question, but this strikes me as more of a plot
>device than a regular trick.
>
Well, Wally was fighting the Mirror Master, who uses a *lot* of light
*tricks*... It may well have been a plot device, but it wasn't even one
that Wally had control over... it was set up by Mirror Master (McCullough?).
>> The other two comics didn't feature any special power stunts. They
>>just provided some insight into the
>>mentality.
>>
It was my impression that Quiksilver doesn't *do* a lot of stunts... The
only comic I've seen with him lately was a Thunderbolts issue, and I think
he just did the "run around punching really fast" trick.
- Jerry
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 13:32:58 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Making the Speedster
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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At 11:18 AM 12/6/97 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Rook wrote:
>> Is there a way to simulate someone who can run and react faster than
>> light? I went out today and grabbed
>
>A lot of powers with IPE: sight and Teleportation instead of Running (or
>Flight).
>
High NCM movement.
>> one issue each of Flash, Impulse, Quicksilver, and Velocity in order to
>> get ideas.
>> Things I saw was Flash outrunning a laser. Flash using his speed to
>> carry a villian in an air bubble.
>
>Consider the former note there. How do you out run something that is
>moving at the speed of light? Pnce you see the laser, its hit you...
>
Or this could be SFX. Or you might use the Seeking Advantage that someone
came up with on the list. Or it was all some sort of Image that Mirror
Master came up with.
>The other part is TK.
>
>> Flash running into a prism at faster than light and therefore being
>> split into seven component personalties /
>> people.
>
>Uh... well... a really weird version of Duplication?
>
Probably bought by the Mirror Master, instead of Flash?
- Jerry
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 13:36:35 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Making the Speedster
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
At 11:25 AM 12/6/97 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>> Teleportation, only places
>> where the character could run to, Danger Sense, Lightning Calculator,
>> the ever popular four-color 'molecular agitation' Desolidification or
>> Dimensional/Time travel powers, HA with Range (the 'wind punch'),
>
>All good effects.
>
Even HA with Range? Would you require him to buy it "STR does not add,"
like the HA power you mentioned in a previous post? If so, why not just EB
(Physical), defined as a 'wind punch'?
>> Clinging linked with Running (for running up the sides of those pesky
>> sky-scrapers), Flight linked with Running (only on the surface of water),
>
>See several previous notes about simply buying Flight, "Only along a
>surface" (-1/2)
>
How would one Link Flight with Running, anyway?
- Jerry
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:13:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Making the Speedster
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Jeremiah Driscoll wrote:
> >> Teleportation, only places
> >> where the character could run to, Danger Sense, Lightning Calculator,
> >> the ever popular four-color 'molecular agitation' Desolidification or
> >> Dimensional/Time travel powers, HA with Range (the 'wind punch'),
> >
> >All good effects.
> >
> Even HA with Range? Would you require him to buy it "STR does not add,"
> like the HA power you mentioned in a previous post? If so, why not just EB
> (Physical), defined as a 'wind punch'?
Oops. Sort of missed that. Yeah, a wind punch should just be a nornal EB
(physical). I might even require Reduced by Range (an maybe Gestures).
> >> Clinging linked with Running (for running up the sides of those pesky
> >> sky-scrapers), Flight linked with Running (only on the surface of water),
> >
> >See several previous notes about simply buying Flight, "Only along a
> >surface" (-1/2)
> >
> How would one Link Flight with Running, anyway?
Uh... no real clue there.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:23:40 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Organization: Sujin & Brian
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> [snip]
> > >
> > >It just seems pointless to make the power Flight different from the most
> > >frequent effect of the power in comics. Superman doesn't have wings or
> > >glow - and I always thought the TV show's wooshing was kind of dumb.
>
> > The whooshing is really fairly logical and realistic. It's part of why
> > skydivers (in real life) can't speak to each other; the rushing wind is too
> > loud. (OK, that doesn't necessarily imply that people beyond the moving
> > person hear the whooshing noise too. I know there's an example of that
> > being demonstrated somewhere, but I'm a little groggy today and can't think
> > of it right offhand.)
> >
>
> I'm glad you agree with me on my main point, Bob, but I'll pick this nit
> with you. I doubt the human body displaces enough air to make that loud a
> wooshing - certainly not a wooshing which can be heard hundreds of feet
> away as often happened in the old Superman TV series. Large birds can be
However what if you're moving as fast as Samaritan (Astro City) does.He can
cover the globe in seconds.
> On a related topic, I have heard pretty convincing arguments that a
> human-sized object breaking the sound barrier would *not* cause a
> significant sonic boom - once again, because relatively little air is
> being displaced.
This may be the answer to my question above. Or maybe not.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
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Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
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Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:27:23 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Organization: Sujin & Brian
Subject: Re: Making the Speedster
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> > OK;
> > despite 13 years as a Champions GM, I've only ever made one
> > speedster, a villian in my first ever
> > game.
> > However I've decided to try the concept as my PC for an upcoming
> > table top game.
> >
>
> Rook,
> Gee... for the points allowed it has been my experience that it is
> really hard to design a decent speedster. Most of the power effects you
Yes. I agree on that. It's my experience that lower points makes a 2
dimensional character,but I've yet to convince the others of this; despite the
evidence of the BBB. Well, when it comes my
turn to GM that will change.
But unfortunatly I have to work with what I've got.
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
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Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:38:57 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Organization: Sujin & Brian
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> The visible to 3 senses rule can be really constraining. Sight & Sound can
> be pretty easy, but few GM's allow the targets sense of touch as they feel
> the effect to be considered a legitimate "visible" effect. Taste is just
> plain silly in most cases, the weirder "sense groups" (Radio, etc.) can be
> tough to justify, so for the third group we're generally left with Smell.
> This means most powers stink.
>
Actually, I think touch is totally valid.After all, mental blasts aren't felt
to touch. I could make a power that affects you physically but
is not felt by the nervous system. Like say, a drug.
Or I could fly right past you at mach-345 and not create a single drift of wind
to ruffle your hair...
So invisible to touch can be made to make sense, therefore, it's justifiable as
one of the three sense groups.
However, I'd had to have to figure out the three sense groups for my spider
clinging...
> Should most normal guns be built with IPE because they have no visible
> beam? The muzzle flash for a handgun isn't terribly visible in daylight,
> after all. While IPE works nicely to simulate silencers, it seems absurd
> to have to buy every gun with the advantage.
And if just pointing a finger is not valid for sight (which in my opinion it is
valid) then many guns could
be invisible to sight. When I shot M-16's in the military I never saw a flash or
saw the bullet.
However I did hear, smell, and as either target or shooter I would've felt
it.
So I guess that's three right there. But if not target or shooter, I would have
had only two groups unless I
counted pointing the gun as sight.
Considering how often someone runs in and says "Freeze, I've got a gun!" and
everyone SEES the gun
and freezes, I'd say it's visably obvious the guy with a gun has an attack
power... :)
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
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Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
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Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:40:28 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Organization: Sujin & Brian
CC: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Regenerating limbs
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
> Do characters with regeneration regenerate limbs? If they
> can, how much would they need to heal to regenerate, lets say, an
> arm?
That depends on the special effect of the regeneration. In most
cases I
think the answer is yes.
As to how much time? well, how much body damage was losing the limb?
That's
how much.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
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Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
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Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:49:27 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Organization: Sujin & Brian
CC: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
> I have felt (and have used) the ruling that Blocks (and Missle
> Defelection) can't be used on things you can't see. So someone with IPE
> punches or an EB can't have their attacks blocked by people with normal
> sight and vision. The IPE punches would require (say...) Spatial
> Awareness while Firewings IPE EB would certainly be visible to IR vision.
This should probably be based on special effect. If missile deflection is an
automatic
effect of a character's defensive field, like say a whirlwind, gravity, or
magnetic field, then they
would not need to see the attack to block it.
In issue 29 of Impulse he deflects a hail of hundreds of bullets coming from
all directions by creating a
whirlwind pushing down. In effect he reflected all the bullets down. It wasn't
like a Force Field, it was
missile deflection. He sat there for a moment and debated to himself the best
direction to send all the
bullets. He chose down to eliminate having any innocents (sp?) get hurt. Now, he
certainly didn't see any
of the bullets coming from behind him until he began to spin.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:53:43 -0500 (EST)
X-Sender: nexus@uky.campus.mci.net
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: Making the Speedster
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
An effect I always liked is a physical EB with limitation Only vs targets
you could run to and suffers enviormental effects of passing through hexes
to target (such as damage sheilds, AE attacks "in the way" etc) Special
effect of running up to hte target punching or striking them in some way and
running back to where you where in an intant or if you make a half move
before using your "EB" you ran up, struck and returned to your new posistion.
I know violence doesn't solve all problems...
But it sure feels good!
Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 16:06:56 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight
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At 12:49 PM 12/6/97 -0800, Rook wrote:
[This was Michael Surbrook:]
>> I have felt (and have used) the ruling that Blocks (and Missle
>> Defelection) can't be used on things you can't see. So someone with IPE
>> punches or an EB can't have their attacks blocked by people with normal
>> sight and vision. The IPE punches would require (say...) Spatial
>> Awareness while Firewings IPE EB would certainly be visible to IR vision.
>
> This should probably be based on special effect. If missile deflection
is an
>automatic
>effect of a character's defensive field, like say a whirlwind, gravity, or
>magnetic field, then they
>would not need to see the attack to block it.
>
He'd just have to be aware of it... if he saw the sniper aiming at him, he
could activate the power, but he'd have to do it continuously, as he
doesn't know exactly *when* the attack is coming, especially since he might
not have any other clues, either (if it's silenced).
> In issue 29 of Impulse he deflects a hail of hundreds of bullets
coming from
>all directions by creating a
>whirlwind pushing down. In effect he reflected all the bullets down. It
wasn't
>like a Force Field, it was
>missile deflection. He sat there for a moment and debated to himself the best
>direction to send all the
>bullets. He chose down to eliminate having any innocents (sp?) get hurt.
Now, he
>certainly didn't see any
>of the bullets coming from behind him until he began to spin.
>
Well, Ihaven't seen this issue at all... but, from what I know of Impulse,
he probably *did* sense (not necessarily *see*) these attacks. He moves a
*lot* faster than the average man, or even the average Champions speedster.
The kid beats most console or computer games in less than a minute.
Regardless, he would've had to know that the bullets were coming in order
to deflect them.
DC speedsters are *powerful*... really powerful. Any of them are *well*
beyond 250 point range.
- Jerry
From: "Matt Korth" <korthmat@cps.msu.edu>
Organization: I don't think so, Tim.
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:41:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Priority: normal
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> A) John Cuszack, Dan Aykroyd. "Grosse Point Blank" I enjoyed the whole
> movie, especially the gunfight at the end, I've never pictured Aykroyd as
> an assassin before.
"Will there be meetings?"
"Of course!"
"No meetings!" *blamblamblam*
There was also the bit in the Ultimart between Cusack's character and the
Basque assassin... They're sitting there, blazing away at each other, the
aisles are getting all shot up, the display cases get shattered, the clerk
keeps calmly playing his video game...
> - Jerry
>
> Who has just realized he's caught up on his e-mail now... : D
Lucky you... I still have 80 or so to go (out of nearly 500, NOT counting
the bounce messages from a few days ago...thank *God* for procmail...).
Did I mention that that's just from this list? :) All I can say is, exams
suck.
--
korthmat@cps.msu.edu http://www.cps.msu.edu/~korthmat
*** People who send me UBE/UCE will be crucified. ***
"Believe me, Mike, I calculated the odds of this succeeding
versus the odds that I was doing something incredibly stupid...
and I went ahead anyway." --Crow, _MST3K: The Movie_
From: Firelynx16 <Firelynx16@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:20:17 EST
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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In a message dated 97-12-06 12:14:44 EST, you write:
<< But that doesn't answer my question. Apparently you misunderstood it,
so I'll state it more specifically: what real advantage, either combat or
campaign oriented, does a character who flies by "force of will" have over
one who, for example, is surrounded by little green spheres when he flies,
especially in light of the brief discussion of Flight special effects under
"Special Effects" in the "General Rules" section of "Powers" (HSR, p 53,
first column, last paragraph)?
--- >>
There are some characters who are really held back because of their SFX of
their flight as to what they can and can't do stealth-wise. Fire based fliers
can't use their flight at night (or sometimes during daylight for that matter)
very well if they're trying to remain unseen. At night, they can be seen for
miles in the sky. Same goes for any loud sounding SFX if you're trying to be
stealthy.
I don't know if that makes IPE worth it, but having a character with fire SFX
has made me wish I could have it.
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Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 01:50 PM