Week Ending December 13, 1997
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 97 00:44:03
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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On Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:38:06 -0500 (EST), Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>On a related topic, I have heard pretty convincing arguments that a
>human-sized object breaking the sound barrier would *not* cause a
>significant sonic boom - once again, because relatively little air is
>being displaced.
Given that the 'crack' of a whip is actually a sonic boom, methinks
you're mistaken.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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>>>>> "BS" == Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu> writes:
BS> The advantage in this is awfully slim. If my force of will makes me
BS> glow, or turns my eyes green, or makes me smell funny, then my Flight
BS> has visible effects, but observers still can't really tell what is
BS> holding me aloft.
It is not a matter of them being able to determine exactly what it is, it
is a matter of them being abl to determine that there is something there.
They may not understand why you glow or your eyes glow green or you smell
funny, but they will know that whatever causes that is also allowing you to
fly.
The advantages of IPE are clear: if you have IPE on your Flight and you are
flying, various nasties that may wish to kill you (or do other things) will
not be able to trace you by the effects of your Flight.
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight
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Date: 06 Dec 1997 22:24:08 -0500
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>>>>> "BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
BG> But that doesn't answer my question. Apparently you misunderstood
BG> it, so I'll state it more specifically: what real advantage, either
BG> combat or campaign oriented, does a character who flies by "force of
BG> will" have over one who, for example, is surrounded by little green
BG> spheres when he flies, especially in light of the brief discussion of
BG> Flight special effects under "Special Effects" in the "General Rules"
BG> section of "Powers" (HSR, p 53, first column, last paragraph)?
Lets use a bit more blatant special effects: a rocket pack. The most
"visible" aspect is the tremendous noise it makes when in use.
Try sneaking up on *ANYONE* while flying with such a thing.
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From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Making the Speedster
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>>>>> "R" == Rook <rook@infinex.com> writes:
R> Obviously their's having a speed score way above campaign average.
R> And the high Dex.
This trips up many players and GMs. You do *NOT* need a high Speed or DEX
to build a "speedster".
Really.
At the simplest level, speedsters are not particularly "quick" as far as
combat is concerned. In a standard 250-point game you can make a
reasonable speedster type with a DEX 15-18, SPD 3-4, lots of a particular
movement power, skill levels towards Multiple Move-By, and maybe skill
levels to offset the movement power's turn mode. Add a few odd powers to
simulate some basic "super speed" effects, and you have an effective
speedster at a cost of between 150 and 200 points.
Remaining points can go to things like Reduced Endurance on the movement
power, increased Recovery, more END, and whatever else strikes your fancy.
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Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:40:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavs@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, qts wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:38:06 -0500 (EST), Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
>
> >On a related topic, I have heard pretty convincing arguments that a
> >human-sized object breaking the sound barrier would *not* cause a
> >significant sonic boom - once again, because relatively little air is
> >being displaced.
>
> Given that the 'crack' of a whip is actually a sonic boom, methinks
> you're mistaken.
I guess you're probably right that there'd be a boom - which is how I've
generally played things on those rare occasions where it's been relevant.
Unfortunately, I can't remember the details of the argument against the
boom, nor where I heard or read it. Probably a comic book - and you know
how accurate comic book science is. :-) Perhaps the point was that the
boom wouldn't do as much damage as a low flying jet, due to the lesser
amount of displaced air?
I really do reserve judgment on this, until I hear a thorough analysis
from an aeronautics engineer or develop mach-1 flight myself.
As far as the wooshing goes, a glider might be a good example to consider.
I don't really have any firsthand experience with those, but my guess
would be that they don't really woosh. Of course, they're probably
relatively slow too.
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 21:43:46 -0800
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight
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Bob Greenwade wrote:
> But that doesn't answer my question. Apparently you misunderstood it,
> so I'll state it more specifically: what real advantage, either combat or
> campaign oriented, does a character who flies by "force of will" have over
> one who, for example, is surrounded by little green spheres when he flies,
> especially in light of the brief discussion of Flight special effects under
> "Special Effects" in the "General Rules" section of "Powers" (HSR, p 53,
> first column, last paragraph)?
A visible power effect need only be visible enough to make use of the power
likely to be noticed, make it clear who is producing the effect, and make
it clear on what target (if any) the effect is being used. The text on
page 53 makes it clear that there is a wide range of special effect
interpretations that are neither advantages nor limitations. Consider the
following visible flight SFXs:
A. Visible to sight group (boot jets give off flame)
Visible to hearing grp (boot jets roar)
Visible to smell (boot jets give off exhaust)
B. Visible to sight group (wings, restrainable)
Visible to hearing grp (wings make flapping noise ex. in a glide)
Visible to touch (wings do obvious wing-like things)
C. Visible to sight group (glowing character and energy trail,
Radio/Radar (electromagnetic waves from character)
Special/Mystic (character gives off magic aura)
A is unlikely ever to fly in and surprise anyone, and can be detected by
the residual smell of exhaust after he leaves. This will, on rare
occasion, be a good thing, but it will usually just get more Viper agents
on A's trail faster.
B is entitled to a stealth skill roll even if flying, since the special
effect is a more subtle sight and sound. On the other hand, those big,
obvious wings are an invitation to an entangle, which will be very
inconvenient for B. IMHO, this approximately balances.
C is the p. 53 example. Whereas C does not give off a perceptable
"whoosh," C is immediately noticed by Air Traffic Control and/or NORAD.
Fair trade, IMHO. Sorcerous enemies will also realize that this is a
magically-granted power as well. So far, so good. The question raised on
page 53 is whether the glowing energy trail is an advantage, a limitation
or neither. The judgment of the authors is that it is enough of each to
qualify as a minor effect, so no bonus nor limitation. In a Dark Champions
or an Espionage campaign, I would strongly disagree, so YMMV, but in a
four-color campaign I agree with their argument.
Now consider:
AA. Visible to radiation group,+3/4 (antigrav boots)
BB. Totally Invisible,+1 (Angel Wings, restrainable)
CC. Visible to Sight group,+1/2 (Glowing trail as above)
Compare AA to A. AA can fly in silently and without a visible glow.
Unless the enemy has radiation sensors, or happens to look up (PER at a
minus) at the right moment, AA may surprise the enemy.
Compare BB to B. BB has aetherial wings that cannot be perceived, but that
cannot pass through barriers; therefore, they are useless against grabs,
entangles and enclosed spaces. The difference is that, since enemies don't
see those wings, they are much less likely to think about trying to do any
of those things, which would normally not affect flight.
Compare CC to C. Both have the -0 glowing trail, but CC does not attract
the attention of radar nor of sorcerors. This will *usually* be a good
thing.
Other notes:
IMHO, the Size powers are outside the visible/invisible powers rule, since
the size of an object is obvious, and cannot be made inobvious by buying
the power IPE (buy Images instead or combat levels used to offset growth
penalties). This is especially true, since these powers are the ones most
commonly bought Always On. Similarly, a character with Armor usually has
some obvious defense -- Kevlar, armor plates, tough hide, etc. -- but is
not entitled to the Visible Power Effects limitation.
I realized, after I had been GMing for a bit, that I had been granting
Clairvoyance IPE by default, which is not per book. It should be visible
both at the source (user) and at the point of use, which makes it much less
useful. Since I was unwilling to impose the ruling retroactively on the
campaign, I adopted a house rule that Clairvoyance may be visible at only
one end (chosen when the power is bought), but then it must be *very*
visible at that end.
IMHO, a character producing Images is obviously producing the Images,
unless they are bought IPE, or unless the image includes the character's
own hex.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
From: "Case" <wmpc@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Champions Adventures
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 00:59:47 -0500
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I've been subscribing to this list for about a week now, and wish I could
join in and add something constructive. Unfortunately, I tend to get bored
with rules discussions fairly quickly. I could probably add an occasional
'Good idea! I agree!', but that wouldn't help conversation much.
I was wondering if anyone was interested in talking about their _role
playing experiences_ in the Champions universe. How many people still play
the 4-color brand of Champions? We used to play 4-color adventures for the
longest time, until we got into a terrible rut- playing every tired cliche
in the book
1) You walk into a bank, cashing a check, when suddenly...
2) The government has called you all into this meeting because we
have a top-secret mission that only YOU can handle, or course, if you are
caught we will deny everyth...
3) We must raid the super high-tech enemy complex, to
(a) rescue the hostage(s)
(b) stop the doomsday
device/nuclear/biological/chemical/mechanical weapon
(c) destroy it.
(d) steal back the plans/equipment
(e) Kill the evil, vile, manical leader
(f) Oh, and get out quickly, because the central core is making
a weird ticking noise, and counting down backwards...hmmm..."3 minutes and
counting??"
4) Hey, somebodys stealing the nuclear core of that reactor!
5) Wait, let me guess- you want to take over the world, too?
6) You're on patrol one night, and you hear a cry for help in the
alley...
That was one problem we had, the other was getting people out of their
shells and INTO their characters. So many good adventures feel flat when
players acted biligerent- for example- being arrested and sent to jail.
(Yea, so what? I know you can't keep me in here, because it ruins the
adventure for everyone else...) (Yea, I killed the witness, so what? As long
as I keep moving, I can keep this adventure afloat...)
Another problem is when people role play, they tend to forget what it's
really like to be human. Ask yourself next time you're roleplaying- "Am I
hungry? Do I need to get batteries for my TV remote? What's that smell in my
refrigerator?? Damn I forgot to call my mother for her birthday! My stomach
is a bit on the nauseous side today. Who wants to be the witness at my
divorce trial??"
-CaseMan
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 01:04:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
X-Sender: susano@access4.digex.net
Reply-To: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: Hero System Mailing List <champ-l@omg.org>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight
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On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Rook wrote:
> In issue 29 of Impulse he deflects a hail of hundreds of bullets coming from
> all directions by creating a
> whirlwind pushing down. In effect he reflected all the bullets down. It wasn't
> like a Force Field, it was
> missile deflection. He sat there for a moment and debated to himself the best
> direction to send all the
> bullets. He chose down to eliminate having any innocents (sp?) get hurt. Now, he
> certainly didn't see any
> of the bullets coming from behind him until he began to spin.
This could also be considered a Force Wall. The direction could be just
FX.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
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Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 23:11:44 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Organization: Sujin & Brian
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Subject: Re: Champions Adventures
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Case wrote:
> I've been subscribing to this list for about a week now, and wish I could
> join in and add something constructive. Unfortunately, I tend to get bored
> with rules discussions fairly quickly. I could probably add an occasional
> 'Good idea! I agree!', but that wouldn't help conversation much.
>
> I was wondering if anyone was interested in talking about their _role
> playing experiences_ in the Champions universe. How many people still play
> the 4-color brand of Champions? We used to play 4-color adventures for the
> longest time, until we got into a terrible rut- playing every tired cliche
> in the book
>
[snip]There's a lot one can do with four color. Just read Astro City. It's
much more
dynamic a genre than people give it credit for.
> That was one problem we had, the other was getting people out of their
> shells and INTO their characters. So many good adventures feel flat when
> players acted biligerent- for example- being arrested and sent to jail.
> (Yea, so what? I know you can't keep me in here, because it ruins the
> adventure for everyone else...) (Yea, I killed the witness, so what? As long
> as I keep moving, I can keep this adventure afloat...)
Remember the genre. If you're doing four color heroes just don't do those
things.Even most villians don't. And they certainly don't get away with it.
Enforce the genre.
Have something get on them for it. Remind them of their disads, etc.
> Another problem is when people role play, they tend to forget what it's
> really like to be human. Ask yourself next time you're roleplaying- "Am I
> hungry? Do I need to get batteries for my TV remote? What's that smell in my
> refrigerator?? Damn I forgot to call my mother for her birthday! My stomach
> is a bit on the nauseous side today. Who wants to be the witness at my
> divorce trial??"
Focus on what's important to the story at hand. There's some great
discussions
on news:rec.games.frp.advocacy that go into this. Which is important to you?
Playing the Game?
Living the Role?
Simulating the World?
Focus on what's needed and blur out the rest to the level most comfortable
to you.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 01:25:05 -0800
From: Captain Spith <cptspith@teleport.com>
Reply-To: cptspith@teleport.com
Subject: Re: CHAR: Shaggy
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Tim R. Gilberg wrote:
>
> > One of the Garou books (I think) contains Shaggy 20 years after the
> > Mystery Machine days, though under a different name to avoid copyright, I
> > suppose. I found the write up to be amusing, but I never could stand the
> > show and Shaggy ends up a burned out Pentex agent;).
>
> Hmmm. Gotta see that one.
>
> Anyway, that show was great. At least the first series, anyway.
> In the pre-Scrappy (the antichrist of cartoons) days.
>
> Going with the drug-trip reading of that show, where it was seen
> as one long acid trip, that must make the second series a bad trip, as all
> the monsters were real that time _and_ we had to put up with Scrappy.
Yes, Scrappy-Doo *IS* the Antichrist. And just to fly a little
further away from appropriate list topics....
Although through the years Scooby-Doo (the show) continued on a
downhill slide until it became Shaggy, Scooby and Scrappy stumbling into
a random storefront, only to be chased by a monster for 22 minutes,
there was a comeback.
"A Pup Named Scooby-Doo" was an EXCELENT parody/homage to the
original series, starring all the 'kids' as kids. I thoroughly abhor
the entire genre of the "___-kids" rash of several years ago, but this
show surpassed said shortcoming and shone out as a show which celebrated
all the good of Scooby-Doo and reveled in the genre of The Cartoon.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled RPG topic(s)
--
-Capt. Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
From: "Jeff O'Connor" <jtoc@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 02:35:59 -0700
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Case:
Four-color doesn't have to be dull. When it comes down to it, I think every
plot device in comics is pretty tired today. Still, you can have a lot of
fun just with the things you described if you tweak them a bit. For
example:
> 1) You walk into a bank, cashing a check, when suddenly...
Ah, the tired old bank robbery. I played in a DC Heroes campaign a few
years back where a villianous, small-fry computer hacker and a mid-level
super-speedster ran a pretty clever racket. The hacker had written a
computer program that would give him the location of all the ATMs in the
city that had been activated by someone who had entered their ATM card and
code. As soon as someone made a legitimate withdrawl, the speedster would
run by, snatch the cash, and (assuming the PC/NPC failed his or her
perception check) get away clean. As far as the victims could tell, the
ATMs had never paid off in the first place. It was a great scenario - the
hacker's involvement was obvious, but the speedster's wasn't. Moreover, it
turned out that this storyline was just a hook to a "mini-series." The
speedster was stealing to keep buying black-market Velocity-9, which was the
source of his power.
> 2) The government has called you all into this meeting because we
>have a top-secret mission that only YOU can handle, or course, if you are
>caught we will deny everything
Like they say on the X-Files, no matter how paranoid you are - you're not
paranoid enough. When dealing with the government, take a page from Mission
Impossible: The Movie. Things AREN'T what they appear. What happens if
the mission is to destroy a doomsday device that turns out to be a
cold-fusion reactor? You know - clean, cheap, inexhaustibly power for the
whole world, and the heroes get duped into taking it out in the name of
American big business? Better yet, have one super-secret government agency
play the heroes against another? It only a bit less tired of a plot
device - but if you play the USA vs. the UN and put the target in an exotic
location, you can really have a good time with it.
> 3) We must raid the super high-tech enemy complex, to
> (a) rescue the hostage(s)
> (b) stop the doomsday
device/nuclear/biological/chemical/mechanical weapon
> (c) destroy it.
> (d) steal back the plans/equipment
> (e) Kill the evil, vile, manical leader
> (f) Oh, and get out quickly, because the central core is making
> a weird ticking noise, and counting down
backwards...hmmm..."3 minutes and
> counting??"
There's nothing wrong with this classic - just give it an unusual setting
and an unlikely twist or two. A great storyline that came up when I was
playing DC Heroes was to have the PCs have to recover the Spear of Destiny
(an old Justice Society of America plot device) and return it to the
Vatican, where it had been housed since the end of World War II. Sure,
Spear of Destiny = big, nasty weapon. But how often do PCs run into the
Pope as an NPC or end up duking it out at St. Peter's and worrying more
about the statuary than their own super-necks?
> 4) Hey, somebodys stealing the nuclear core of that reactor!
Never look a gift-horse or plot hook in the mouth. Exposure to radiation =
mutation. This is a good plot device for slapping the character with an
unknown disadvantage or new power. I GM'd an adventure where one of the
high-tech geek NPCs got exposed to a mutagen in a plotline like this and
ended up with superhuman strength - and no idea how to use it gently. The
media dubbed her a monster and she left a trail of wreckage to prove it.
The PCs ended up having to protect her from a batch of heroic,
government-issue NPCs who wanted to cart her off. They could fight the
NPCs, but not city hall. In the end, they had to find a cure to keep her
out of a government laboratory.
> 5) Wait, let me guess- you want to take over the world, too?
What's wrong with wanting to take over the city/country/globe? Besides,
it's all in the execution. I have a favorite villian called Dr. Voodoo
whose the exiled dictator of a ficticious Carribean nation. He only wants
to take over his country, but he usually uses a small Army of undead to do
it. This makes for a great Halloween adventure.
> 6) You're on patrol one night, and you hear a cry for help in the
alley...
This seems to work for Spider-Man and Batman. They're always getting into
something with this old chestnut. Again, it doesn't matter what draws you
into the adventure - it is what the adventure is. Suppose the alley is a
gateway to a parallel universe, or another time and the characters are
hearing someone/something on the other side? Maybe it's a trap that's been
set by the newest villian in town? Maybe the characters are hallucinating,
and it's all in their heads? If it isn't broken, don't fix it - use it!
X-Sender: mlknight@pop.mindspring.com
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 03:20:09 -0700
From: Michelle Knight <mlknight@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures
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At 12:59 AM 12/7/97 -0500, Case wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone was interested in talking about their _role
>playing experiences_ in the Champions universe. How many people still play
>the 4-color brand of Champions? We used to play 4-color adventures for the
>longest time, until we got into a terrible rut- playing every tired cliche
>in the book
My advice: Watch the news and read the newspapers and get ideas from
there. True, many ideas aren't really 4 colorish, but it can make for some
interesting Dark Champions adventures. In fact, I'm working on one such
idea as I write this.
Michelle
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 06:33:39 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Regenerating limbs
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 12:39 PM 12/7/97 -0800, Rick Holding wrote:
>Bob Greenwade wrote:
>>
>> At 09:59 AM 12/6/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>> > Do characters with regeneration regenerate limbs? If they
>> >can, how much would they need to heal to regenerate, lets say, an
>> >arm?
>>
>> The last I saw, officially, no. For character concepts that need this,
>> I usually allow a +1/2 "House Rule" advantage, "Regrows Limbs," which can
>> be applied to REC, Aid (with the Healing option), or Regeneration.
>
>And this is written where? Certainly not under the description of
>regeneration in the BBB.
It's not written anywhere. That's what makes it a house rule, Rick.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 97 14:59:16
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Priority: Normal
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:40:29 -0500 (EST), Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
>
>On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, qts wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:38:06 -0500 (EST), Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>>
>>
>> >On a related topic, I have heard pretty convincing arguments that a
>> >human-sized object breaking the sound barrier would *not* cause a
>> >significant sonic boom - once again, because relatively little air is
>> >being displaced.
>>
>> Given that the 'crack' of a whip is actually a sonic boom, methinks
>> you're mistaken.
>
>I guess you're probably right that there'd be a boom - which is how I've
>generally played things on those rare occasions where it's been relevant.
>
>Unfortunately, I can't remember the details of the argument against the
>boom, nor where I heard or read it. Probably a comic book - and you know
>how accurate comic book science is. :-) Perhaps the point was that the
>boom wouldn't do as much damage as a low flying jet, due to the lesser
>amount of displaced air?
This depends upon how you define significant, then, I suppose. My take
is that if you *want* your hero to cause damage, just take a linked <g>
EB vs PD. OTOH if you want your PC to go supersonic without being
heard, you must take IPE: Hearing
Does that help?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
X-Sender: avatar@pop-gw.homeshopping.com.br
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 13:28:06 -0200
From: "Rafael Sant'Anna Meyer" <avatar@br.homeshopping.com.br>
Subject: Help!!!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
Hi Heroes,
I am needing 3 npcs for a game. One must be a Blaster, other a velocist
and the third a sorcerer.
I accept Heromaker files.
Eletric Avatar
avatar@br.homeshopping.com.br
eletric_avatar@hotmail.com
UIN:3291380
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 07:35:45 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 12:59 AM 12/7/97 -0500, Case wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone was interested in talking about their _role
>playing experiences_ in the Champions universe. How many people still play
>the 4-color brand of Champions? We used to play 4-color adventures for the
>longest time, until we got into a terrible rut- playing every tired cliche
>in the book
> 1) You walk into a bank, cashing a check, when suddenly...
> 2) The government has called you all into this meeting because we
>have a top-secret mission that only YOU can handle, or course, if you are
>caught we will deny everyth...
> 3) We must raid the super high-tech enemy complex, to
> (a) rescue the hostage(s)
> (b) stop the doomsday
>device/nuclear/biological/chemical/mechanical weapon
> (c) destroy it.
> (d) steal back the plans/equipment
> (e) Kill the evil, vile, manical leader
> (f) Oh, and get out quickly, because the central core is making
>a weird ticking noise, and counting down backwards...hmmm..."3 minutes and
>counting??"
> 4) Hey, somebodys stealing the nuclear core of that reactor!
> 5) Wait, let me guess- you want to take over the world, too?
> 6) You're on patrol one night, and you hear a cry for help in the
>alley...
You could always go with the Villains Attack Heroes, or Villains Set
Heroes Up to Take a Fall. I've gotten some very positive feedback on some
of the adventures on my website (URL below). One of the plots features
Spectrum setting up the heroes to face criminal charges by tricking them
into committing violent crimes on television; another has VIPER and COIL
playing the heroes off each other.
> That was one problem we had, the other was getting people out of their
>shells and INTO their characters. So many good adventures feel flat when
>players acted biligerent- for example- being arrested and sent to jail.
>(Yea, so what? I know you can't keep me in here, because it ruins the
>adventure for everyone else...) (Yea, I killed the witness, so what? As long
>as I keep moving, I can keep this adventure afloat...)
> Another problem is when people role play, they tend to forget what it's
>really like to be human. Ask yourself next time you're roleplaying- "Am I
>hungry? Do I need to get batteries for my TV remote? What's that smell in my
>refrigerator?? Damn I forgot to call my mother for her birthday! My stomach
>is a bit on the nauseous side today. Who wants to be the witness at my
>divorce trial??"
Something that's been done with a fair amount of success is to just sit
around and say, "OK, we're not going to have an adventure tonight. We're
just going to have a barbecue in the backyard at team headquarters." Of
course, you can substitute whatever other activity the whole group would
enjoy -- poker game, shopping excursion, or whatever. If it's near a
holiday time, have them observe a holiday get-together; this is especially
fitting for Independence Day (in the US at least) and Christmas. But the
point is that they have to interact *in character*, and in the context of
the game. The GM portrays any DNPCs and other NPCs, but the closest thing
that happens to an actual adventure is some minor nusiance created by a
Hunter, or maybe some minor incident foreshadowing an upcoming scenario.
I've seen this done, participated, and GMed it, and it's always helped make
the characters a little more human (or whatever they happen to be) instead
of just a bunch of stats and soliloquies.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 08:46:12 -0700
From: Curtis Gibson <mhoram@relia.net>
Subject: Re: Waste of bandwith Question #1
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
Jumping in late here, but I've had a weeks worth to catch up on...
Favorite Fight scenes:
Comics...Legion of Super Heroes (1st incarantion- Baxter issues) vs the
Legion of SuperVillians. Those were drawn wonderfully. I also liked the
KK death fight. I was pissed and saddened, but it was well done.
As mentioned also, the Superman/Batman fight in Dark Knight Returns. The
ultimate Green arrow. heh.
Movies.. The cliffs of insanity sword duel (hey I love the movie)-
Princess Bride.
There were some edits in it but I also liked the Brandon Lee vs the
'Long haired henchman' in Rapid Fire.
Favorite movie tacitc in a fight....
Godzilla vs the Smog monster.. Smoggie alters and flies away, and
Godzilla watches him, then turns around shoots his halitosis at the
ground, lifts off, flies after Smoggie, and drops on him. Campy but fun.
--
-Mhoram
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your
two cents in. Somebody's makin' a penny somewhere. -Stephen Wright
X-Sender: bob.greenwade@klock.com
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 08:31:21 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Regenerating limbs
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
At 11:00 AM 12/7/97 -0800, Robert A. West wrote:
>Rick Holding wrote:
>>
>> Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> >
>> > At 09:59 AM 12/6/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>> > > Do characters with regeneration regenerate limbs? . . .
>> >
>> > The last I saw, officially, no. . . .
>>
>> And this is written where? Certainly not under the description of
>> regeneration in the BBB.
>
>Actually, the point is that the book says nowhere that Regeneration can
>regrow limbs. Powers do what they are stated to do, modulo special
>effects.
>
>Per book, Regen recovers points of BODY, period. As has been pointed out
>from time to time, the only way to represent limb loss under standard
>rules is as a Major Transform. By the rules for Transform, a completed
>transform may either be reversed by recovering the Transform "BODY" as if
>recovering normal BODY, in which case Regeneration works, or by some
>other method appropriate to the Transform, in which case Regeneration is
>irrelevant.
It's not altogether true that the only way to represent limb loss under
standard rules is as a Major Transform. (It depends somewhat on how you
define the term "standard rules.") On HSR page 164, in the "Hands, Arms,
and Shoulders" section under "Disabling," second sentence, the book states,
"The arm may be totally severed depending upon the nature of the attack and
the GM's judgement." The same sentence (identical except for "arm" being
replaced with "limb") appears under the "Thighs, Legs, and Feet" section.
>Since humans do not, in most campaigns, routinely regrow limbs, this
>implies that the Transform in question is nor reversed by normal BODY
>recovery; therefore standard Regeneration would not work. It would be
>perfectly appropriate to define a SFX for Regeneration that works against
>(and only against) Transforms that represent Amputations, and to require
>that all amputation Transforms include Regeneration/Limb as one of the
>reversal conditions.
>
>BTW, Regeneration is, IMHO, vastly underpriced. For 10 points, a
>character gets to heal 1 BODY/turn, Persistent, indefinitely. This means
>that the character will not "bleed" to death at negative BODY. Once a
>Paramedic roll has been made, the character will heal 300 BODY per hour!
>Wow!
I tend to agree with you here. I tend to keep a tight rein on
Regeneration as it currently stands. The proposal for a +1/4 Advantage to
REC for every step up the Time Chart is much more logical.
---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/merrhome.htm
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com (Unverified)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 11:21:54 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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X-UID: 27
At 06:04 PM 12/5/97 -0400, Trevor Barrie wrote:
>The discussion of Special Effects at the beginning of the Powers section
>implies pretty strongly that the glowing trail schtick is strictly
>optional; not having one isn't something you should pay extra for.
>
>Invisible Flight would imply that people can't tell he's flying, just like
>you can't tell that somebody firing an Invisible Energy Blast is launching
>an attack.
It may seem to, but only if one confuses function with FX. Remember that
visibility issues are related to SFX, while the function of the power is
that which remains constant *regardless* of SFX.
All Powers which are considered 'visible' (all but inherently Persistent
Powers, Mental Powers, and maybe Density Increase) create 3 perceptible
effects /completely apart/ from the function of the Power. Buying IPE
allows you to eliminate these perceptible effects, and only those effects --
you can't use IPE at any level to render the function of the power
imperceptible. For example, one can make it impossible to tell that someone
has launched an attack at you, but that doesn't make the *damage* of the
attack "invisible".
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com (Unverified)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 11:21:56 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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At 11:19 PM 12/5/97 -0500, Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>If it's clear where the source of the power is, whether a Sandman with a
>gun, Popinjay with a pointed finger, or Superman confidently floating in
>the air, I'd be willing to consider the power visible.
Ah, but that's just it -- Superman's flight is NOT clear. If Superman is
flying with his feet touching the surface of a quicksand pit, will someone
charging him realize he IS flying, or will they think he's standing?
Superman's flight more than likely IS Invisible -- there's NO sign that he's
flying except for the fact that he's in the air.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
X-Sender: ludator@mail.softfarm.com (Unverified)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 11:21:58 -0600
From: Vox Ludator! <ludator@mail.softfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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At 07:38 AM 12/6/97 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> But that doesn't answer my question. Apparently you misunderstood it,
>so I'll state it more specifically: what real advantage, either combat or
>campaign oriented, does a character who flies by "force of will" have over
>one who, for example, is surrounded by little green spheres when he flies,
>especially in light of the brief discussion of Flight special effects under
>"Special Effects" in the "General Rules" section of "Powers" (HSR, p 53,
>first column, last paragraph)?
1) For one example, see my comments in another post, where force of will
flight can be used to trick people into walking into a trap (quicksand that
Our Hero appears to be "standing" on).
2) Here's another one: protecting secret IDs. If Superman is pushed out a
window, he can use his flight to slow his fall and "catch" a convenient
outcropping -- "Lucky for you that ledge was there, Clark, you could have
been killed!" Green Lantern tries the same trick, and everyone watching
knows he's Green Lantern, because he surrounds himself with that trademark
glowing green aura when he kicks in the flight.
3) As Rat has pointed out a half-dozen times (frankly, IMO whenever Rat and
I actually AGREE on something, it should be taken as gospel ;] ;] ;]), the
distinction makes a big difference in terms of stealth issues. Lots easier
for Maxima to sneak up on someone than Rocket Red.
4) As Robert West illustrated in an incredibly well-written post, it also
makes a big difference to people trying to COUNTERACT those powers. SFX
give clues to the mechanisms behind powers. If I see someone flying with
wings, I'm going to think I can stop him from flying by 'clipping' them.
Rockets can be clogged, magnetic manipulation can be disrupted, etc. But to
figure out these countermeasures, I have to be able to detect the measure in
the first place.
I don't think there's really much question that the guy with force-of-will
flight is better off. I will admit, it's debatable whether he's that MUCH
better off. I've often felt that Invisible is rather overpriced, at least
in regard to non-attack/damaging/whathaveyou powers like movement modes.
--
Vox 25:17, Patron Saint of Gadflies
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good |
| men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:23:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Help!!!
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Rafael Sant'Anna Meyer wrote:
>
> Hi Heroes,
>
> I am needing 3 npcs for a game. One must be a Blaster, other a velocist
> and the third a sorcerer.
Uh... what is a 'velocist'?
BTW: Rafael, if you have web access (or even access to Lynx) try my
website (listed below), there are well over 200+ write-ups there,
including 65 pretty useful superhero characters adapted from the
_Wildcards_ book
series.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 11:00:46 -0800
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Regenerating limbs
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
Rick Holding wrote:
>
> Bob Greenwade wrote:
> >
> > At 09:59 AM 12/6/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> > > Do characters with regeneration regenerate limbs? . . .
> >
> > The last I saw, officially, no. . . .
>
> And this is written where? Certainly not under the description of
> regeneration in the BBB.
Actually, the point is that the book says nowhere that Regeneration can
regrow limbs. Powers do what they are stated to do, modulo special
effects.
Per book, Regen recovers points of BODY, period. As has been pointed out
from time to time, the only way to represent limb loss under standard
rules is as a Major Transform. By the rules for Transform, a completed
transform may either be reversed by recovering the Transform "BODY" as if
recovering normal BODY, in which case Regeneration works, or by some
other method appropriate to the Transform, in which case Regeneration is
irrelevant.
Since humans do not, in most campaigns, routinely regrow limbs, this
implies that the Transform in question is nor reversed by normal BODY
recovery; therefore standard Regeneration would not work. It would be
perfectly appropriate to define a SFX for Regeneration that works against
(and only against) Transforms that represent Amputations, and to require
that all amputation Transforms include Regeneration/Limb as one of the
reversal conditions.
BTW, Regeneration is, IMHO, vastly underpriced. For 10 points, a
character gets to heal 1 BODY/turn, Persistent, indefinitely. This means
that the character will not "bleed" to death at negative BODY. Once a
Paramedic roll has been made, the character will heal 300 BODY per hour!
Wow!
Consider what one can do with 75 points to spend.
25 2 pts Regeneration Usable by Self and 1 Other*
17 Life Support: Immunity to Disease Aging, Self and 46 Others.*
33 10D6 Dispel any Disease power(+1/4) Area Effect Explosion(+1)**
* = use by Others adv. requires 0 DCV Conc., Gestures,
Incantations.
** = entire power 0 DCV, Gestures, Incantations.
The Dispel will get rid of active disease, while the Life Support will
keep it from coming back long enough for the immune system to rid the
body of the disease organism -- curing virtually any disease. When a
character proposed buying this suite, I told the player (half-jokingly)
that I would also mandate the "Messiah Package"
10 20 PRE
3 PS: Messiah 13- (PRE)
10 Head of Major World Religion
10 Revered as a God
15 Unlimited Wealth
150 200 Million Followers (25-pt Normals)
Disadvantages
25 Hunted by Mulitple Religions as the False Messiah 14-,>pow,NCI.
10 Watched by Followers 14-
15 Watched by all Governments and the Press 14-
25 Extreme Reputation 14- (Messiah or False Messiah)
10 Public Identity
3 Package Bonus
---
110 Net Cost of Package
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
From: "VANSICKLE, James" <jvansickle@shl.com>
Subject: RE: Regenerating limbs
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:45:00 -0600
Encoding: 86 TEXT
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
X-Hero: champ-l
To: champ-l@omg.org
What about BOD loss through loss of limbs? If I have a hand or arm cut
off, do I permenately loose a certain amount of points in BODY. To
represent the fact that part of my BODY is no longer attached?
>----------
>From: Robert A. West[SMTP:robtwest@erols.com]
>Sent: Sunday, December 07, 1997 1:34 PM
>To: champ-l@omg.org
>Subject: Re: Regenerating limbs
>
>Rick Holding wrote:
>>
>> Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> >
>> > At 09:59 AM 12/6/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
>> > > Do characters with regeneration regenerate limbs? . . .
>> >
>> > The last I saw, officially, no. . . .
>>
>> And this is written where? Certainly not under the description of
>> regeneration in the BBB.
>
>Actually, the point is that the book says nowhere that Regeneration can
>regrow limbs. Powers do what they are stated to do, modulo special
>effects.
>
>Per book, Regen recovers points of BODY, period. As has been pointed out
>from time to time, the only way to represent limb loss under standard
>rules is as a Major Transform. By the rules for Transform, a completed
>transform may either be reversed by recovering the Transform "BODY" as if
>recovering normal BODY, in which case Regeneration works, or by some
>other method appropriate to the Transform, in which case Regeneration is
>irrelevant.
>
>Since humans do not, in most campaigns, routinely regrow limbs, this
>implies that the Transform in question is nor reversed by normal BODY
>recovery; therefore standard Regeneration would not work. It would be
>perfectly appropriate to define a SFX for Regeneration that works against
>(and only against) Transforms that represent Amputations, and to require
>that all amputation Transforms include Regeneration/Limb as one of the
>reversal conditions.
>
>BTW, Regeneration is, IMHO, vastly underpriced. For 10 points, a
>character gets to heal 1 BODY/turn, Persistent, indefinitely. This means
>that the character will not "bleed" to death at negative BODY. Once a
>Paramedic roll has been made, the character will heal 300 BODY per hour!
>Wow!
>
>Consider what one can do with 75 points to spend.
>
>25 2 pts Regeneration Usable by Self and 1 Other*
>17 Life Support: Immunity to Disease Aging, Self and 46 Others.*
>33 10D6 Dispel any Disease power(+1/4) Area Effect Explosion(+1)**
> * = use by Others adv. requires 0 DCV Conc., Gestures,
> Incantations.
> ** = entire power 0 DCV, Gestures, Incantations.
>
>The Dispel will get rid of active disease, while the Life Support will
>keep it from coming back long enough for the immune system to rid the
>body of the disease organism -- curing virtually any disease. When a
>character proposed buying this suite, I told the player (half-jokingly)
>that I would also mandate the "Messiah Package"
>
>10 20 PRE
>3 PS: Messiah 13- (PRE)
>10 Head of Major World Religion
>10 Revered as a God
>15 Unlimited Wealth
>150 200 Million Followers (25-pt Normals)
> Disadvantages
>25 Hunted by Mulitple Religions as the False Messiah 14-,>pow,NCI.
>10 Watched by Followers 14-
>15 Watched by all Governments and the Press 14-
>25 Extreme Reputation 14- (Messiah or False Messiah)
>10 Public Identity
>3 Package Bonus
>---
>110 Net Cost of Package
>
>--
><------------------------------------------------------->
>Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
>Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
>http://www.erols.com/robtwest
>
>
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 15:19:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: RE: Regenerating limbs
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
Sender: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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To: champ-l@omg.org
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X-UID: 1
On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, VANSICKLE, James wrote:
> What about BOD loss through loss of limbs? If I have a hand or arm cut
> off, do I permenately loose a certain amount of points in BODY. To
> represent the fact that part of my BODY is no longer attached?
I beleive that the BB states a limb can only take about 1/3 of your Body
score before being destroyed. This might help in determining how far to
reduce someone's Body stat after limb loss.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 12:39:23 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Regenerating limbs
Errors-To: owner-champ-l@omg.org
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Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> At 09:59 AM 12/6/97 -0500, ALONE AT MIDNIGHT wrote:
> > Do characters with regeneration regenerate limbs? If they
> >can, how much would they need to heal to regenerate, lets say, an
> >arm?
>
> The last I saw, officially, no. For character concepts that need this,
> I usually allow a +1/2 "House Rule" advantage, "Regrows Limbs," which can
> be applied to REC, Aid (with the Healing option), or Regeneration.
And this is written where? Certainly not under the description of
regeneration in the BBB.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ricky Holding Email: rholding@ActOnline.com.au
Work is only there to give us time to talk about play
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 13:09:28 -0800
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Organization: Sujin & Brian
Subject: Any Published Champions Speedsters?
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Hello;
In my quest for info on Speedsters I have one more question.
Are they any Speedsters published in any Champions books. So far I've
been unable to find any.
Any edition of the game will do.
--
Rook
Super Hero Links Page:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html
My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:00:48 -0500
X-Sender: matroy@mail.abacom.com
From: Mathieu Roy <matroy@abacom.com>
Subject: Re: Any Published Champions Speedsters?
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At 01:09 PM 12/7/97 -0800, Rook wrote:
>Hello;
> In my quest for info on Speedsters I have one more question.
>
>Are they any Speedsters published in any Champions books. So far I've
>been unable to find any.
>
>Any edition of the game will do.
There are a couple in the latest edition of Golden Age Champions.
Mathieu
From: "Case" <wmpc@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures- Breaking up the monotony...
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:14:22 -0500
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-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
To: champ-l@omg.org <champ-l@omg.org>
Date: Sunday, December 07, 1997 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures
>At 12:59 AM 12/7/97 -0500, Case wrote:
>> I was wondering if anyone was interested in talking about their _role
>>playing experiences_ in the Champions universe. How many people still play
>>the 4-color brand of Champions? We used to play 4-color adventures for the
>>longest time, until we got into a terrible rut- playing every tired cliche
>>in the book
>> 1) You walk into a bank, cashing a check, when suddenly...
Bob Greenwade wrote:
> You could always go with the Villains Attack Heroes, or Villains Set
>Heroes Up to Take a Fall. I've gotten some very positive feedback on some
>of the adventures on my website (URL below). One of the plots features
>Spectrum setting up the heroes to face criminal charges by tricking them
>into committing violent crimes on television; another has VIPER and COIL
>playing the heroes off each other.
I'm sorry- when I wrote that late last night, I didn't wrap up my point the
way I wanted too because I was just plain too tired. What I was trying to
say before my brain rudely kicked out on me was that I've tried in recent
years to take my Champions adventures to a wholly different level. No more
'black and white' heroes and villians. (Not all supervillians want to take
over the world, some just want to have a little fun!) No more big-boobed
babes in skintight costumes. I was at the point where I think I would barf
if I heard "I was on patrol one evening when..." Megalomaniacs OUT. Bar
fights OUT. Bank robberies WAY OUT. Instead, let's try to make stories with
'above average' people in extraordinary circumstances.
Here are some recent examples:
(a) A platoon of space marines is sent to the Mars to quell a major civil
disobedience when they stumble upon a strange discovery...
(b) Correctional officers are in charge of transporting a superpowered
pyromanic across country. Funny thing is, the pyromanic doesn't want out- he
NEEDS to get to Florida in one piece to recue his lover at the Dade County
Stronghold...
(c) You play members of a militant Christian group infilitrating the a
group of "mutilationists"...But before you meet Dr Vivisector- you are
required to perform a live dissection to prove your worth. Do you do it? Or
is there another way?
(d) Later in the Fall of 1998, I hope to have put together Champions 'Toy
Story' spinoff- where the the protagonists play children's toys. The whos
and whys aren't quite sketched out yet.
(e) A great adventure I'm working on for the Summer of '98- a *long*
overdue spoof of Vampire:The Masquerade et al. You play rednecks chasing
after some 'lunatics' who just "gone sucked da blood out ma sons prize
HAWG! Gawd dammit- lets go show 'em some old fashioned Southern JUSTICE!
YEEE HAW!"
(f) The adventure I'm debuting for Dreamation 1998- where you finally get
to play the super villians. (We did the playtesting for it last night it was
the best adventure I've ever done in 14 years of GMing!)
> Something that's been done with a fair amount of success is to just sit
>around and say, "OK, we're not going to have an adventure tonight. We're
>just going to have a barbecue in the backyard at team headquarters." Of
>course, you can substitute whatever other activity the whole group would
>enjoy -- poker game, shopping excursion, or whatever. If it's near a
>holiday time, have them observe a holiday get-together; this is especially
>fitting for Independence Day (in the US at least) and Christmas. But the
>point is that they have to interact *in character*, and in the context of
>the game.
I love this idea! Very cool!
>Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bobg/original.htm
Great page, btw!
-CaseMan
From: "Case" <wmpc@ix.netcom.com>
Cc: <champ-l@omg.org>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:17:58 -0500
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>
> Focus on what's important to the story at hand. There's some great
>discussions
>on news:rec.games.frp.advocacy that go into this. Which is important to
you?
>Playing the Game?
>Living the Role?
>Simulating the World?
>
> Focus on what's needed and blur out the rest to the level most
comfortable
>to you.
Great newsgroup- thanks for the tip...
>My Champions Webpage is at:
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/
>Editor of the Super-Hero Networld project for Living Legends at:
>http://www.infinex.com/~rook/liv_leg.htm
>
>
>
From: "Case" <wmpc@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:42:13 -0500
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>Ah, the tired old bank robbery. I played in a DC Heroes campaign a few
>years back where a villianous, small-fry computer hacker and a mid-level
>super-speedster ran a pretty clever racket. The hacker had written a
>computer program that would give him the location of all the ATMs in the
>city that had been activated by someone who had entered their ATM card and
>code. As soon as someone made a legitimate withdrawl, the speedster would
>run by, snatch the cash, and (assuming the PC/NPC failed his or her
>perception check) get away clean. As far as the victims could tell, the
>ATMs had never paid off in the first place. It was a great scenario - the
>hacker's involvement was obvious, but the speedster's wasn't. Moreover, it
>turned out that this storyline was just a hook to a "mini-series." The
>speedster was stealing to keep buying black-market Velocity-9, which was
the
>source of his power.
In a phrase- that is *awesome*. I love it!
>There's nothing wrong with this classic - just give it an unusual setting
>and an unlikely twist or two. A great storyline that came up when I was
>playing DC Heroes was to have the PCs have to recover the Spear of Destiny
>(an old Justice Society of America plot device) and return it to the
>Vatican, where it had been housed since the end of World War II. Sure,
>Spear of Destiny = big, nasty weapon. But how often do PCs run into the
>Pope as an NPC or end up duking it out at St. Peter's and worrying more
>about the statuary than their own super-necks?
Funny- in my Christian militant adventure, my PC's met the Pope in the Star
Wars-style closing medal ceremony! heh heh
>> 5) Wait, let me guess- you want to take over the world, too?
>
>What's wrong with wanting to take over the city/country/globe? Besides,
>it's all in the execution. I have a favorite villian called Dr. Voodoo
>whose the exiled dictator of a ficticious Carribean nation. He only wants
>to take over his country, but he usually uses a small Army of undead to do
>it. This makes for a great Halloween adventure.
Well, the problem with wanting to take over the world- it's been done to
death. There is almost no spin that hasn't been done. Everybody wants to be
naked and famous.
Here's a valid analogy: Hero and villian are wrestling with a revolver.
Gun goes off- and the villian crumples to the floor holding his stomach.
"You shot...me". Asleep yet??
How about this- Hero and villian are wrestling with gun, and hero
snatches it away. He holds the gun to the villians forehead and says,
"Today- you died. I shot you in the head, and you feel to the ground and
died. Your last view in your fading window of conscious will be the front of
my boots in front of your face."
"The very fact that I haven't taken your life yet means I own it. You
are here listening to me because I am allowing you live long enough to
listen to me."
"Before I kill you, I'm going to tell you what you will miss
tomorrow...and the next day...and the next."
"Before I kill you, I want you to know how important your life was to
your family..."
Who wants to rule the world? No one. Who wants to find a cologne that will
make him irresistable to women? Who wants kill his rival? Who convets your
car? Can't hardly breathe...
>> 6) You're on patrol one night, and you hear a cry for help in the
>alley...
>
>This seems to work for Spider-Man and Batman. They're always getting into
>something with this old chestnut. Again, it doesn't matter what draws you
>into the adventure - it is what the adventure is. Suppose the alley is a
>gateway to a parallel universe, or another time and the characters are
>hearing someone/something on the other side? Maybe it's a trap that's been
>set by the newest villian in town? Maybe the characters are hallucinating,
>and it's all in their heads? If it isn't broken, don't fix it - use it!
Great point! I just think there's a better way...I mean, when I go on
patrol, nothing exciting ever happens to me except that some jerk has cut
off the 'Mystery Machine' on the highway....;D
From: "Case" <wmpc@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:44:45 -0500
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> My advice: Watch the news and read the newspapers and get ideas from
>there. True, many ideas aren't really 4 colorish, but it can make for some
>interesting Dark Champions adventures. In fact, I'm working on one such
>idea as I write this.
Oh forgive me, my message was suppose to be lead-in for dropping the whole
4 color scene in favor of more realistic, darker stories...
(I just never completed the thought because my brain bonked out...)
-CaseMan
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 18:42:12 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: RE: Regenerating limbs
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At 03:19 PM 12/7/97 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, VANSICKLE, James wrote:
>
>> What about BOD loss through loss of limbs? If I have a hand or arm cut
>> off, do I permenately loose a certain amount of points in BODY. To
>> represent the fact that part of my BODY is no longer attached?
>
>I beleive that the BB states a limb can only take about 1/3 of your Body
>score before being destroyed. This might help in determining how far to
>reduce someone's Body stat after limb loss.
>
But BODY does not necessarily have to be a function of *just* physical
structure. It could represent a strong "will to live, as well as size and
mass (Champions II, p 59.)" So, it would depend on character conception.
Yes, the disabling rules *could* be used as a guideline... but what if I
lost 3 limbs? <g> Guess quadraplegics *aren't* valid characters in Hero...
(Start off at negative BODY? <lol>)
You may want the character to lose a BODY or two, as well as that limb.
This might be balanced out by no longer having that hit location. "I
rolled a 10 to hit the one-armed man." "Okay, Fugitive, what hit
location?" "I rolled an 8..." "<flipping a coin> Right arm, no damage." <g>
- Jerry
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 18:43:32 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Any Published Champions Speedsters?
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At 05:00 PM 12/7/97 -0500, Mathieu Roy wrote:
>At 01:09 PM 12/7/97 -0800, Rook wrote:
>>Hello;
>> In my quest for info on Speedsters I have one more question.
>>
>>Are they any Speedsters published in any Champions books. So far I've
>>been unable to find any.
>>
>>Any edition of the game will do.
>
>There are a couple in the latest edition of Golden Age Champions.
>
And there's Vibron, who was in Enemies I, and Classic Enemies. Not really
powerful, but he's a Speedster. (Not very efficient, either...)
- Jerry
From: Egyptoid <Egyptoid@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 18:49:01 EST
Subject: Re: Re: Invisible Flight
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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In a message dated 12/6/97 11:11:19 PM, robtwest@erols.com wrote:
>I realized, after I had been GMing for a bit, that I had been granting
>Clairvoyance IPE by default, which is not per book. It should be visible
>both at the source (user) and at the point of use, which makes it much less
>useful.
Yeah, great big talking head looking around at the far end
"I am the great & powerful Oz!" ain't IPE at all.
--
Ell-Man
From: Egyptoid <Egyptoid@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 18:49:04 EST
Subject: Re: Re: Invisible Flight
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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In a message dated 12/6/97 11:36:33 PM, bsvitavs@bu.edu wrote:
>> >human-sized object breaking the sound barrier would *not* cause a
>> >significant sonic boom - once again, because relatively little air is
>> >being displaced.
>> Given that the 'crack' of a whip is actually a sonic boom, methinks
>> you're mistaken.
>I guess yo're probably right that there'd be a boom - which is how I've
>generally played things on those rare occasions where it's been relevant.
I think you are both correct.
Any object breaking the sound barrier causes a sonic boom.
The end of a snapped towel, the tip of a bull-whip, a bullet,
and a 757 all do it.
The trick is the size. Jets displace TONS of air as they break
sound-speed, and their sound carries for miles.
A cracking whip displaces an ounce or two at most, and can't
be heard a block away.
Supersonic flight could be IPE I supppose, SFX are that you don't
somehow cause a boom like every other object that breaks the
sound "barrier".
From: Egyptoid <Egyptoid@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 18:49:06 EST
Subject: Re: Re: Regenerating limbs
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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In a message dated 12/6/97 10:06:37 PM, rholding@ActOnline.com.au wrote:
>> I usually allow a +1/2 "House Rule" advantage, "Regrows Limbs," which can
>> be applied to REC, Aid (with the Healing option), or Regeneration.
>And this is written where? Certainly not under the description of
>regeneration in the BBB.
I guess I missed the limb-severing portion of the damage rules.
Shall I whip out my Role-Master crit conversions for Hero? :)
--
Ell-Man
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 18:58:03 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures- Breaking up the monotony...
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At 05:14 PM 12/7/97 -0500, "Case" wrote:
>I'm sorry- when I wrote that late last night, I didn't wrap up my point the
>way I wanted too because I was just plain too tired. What I was trying to
>say before my brain rudely kicked out on me was that I've tried in recent
>years to take my Champions adventures to a wholly different level. No more
>'black and white' heroes and villians. (Not all supervillians want to take
>over the world, some just want to have a little fun!) No more big-boobed
>babes in skintight costumes. I was at the point where I think I would barf
>if I heard "I was on patrol one evening when..." Megalomaniacs OUT. Bar
>fights OUT. Bank robberies WAY OUT. Instead, let's try to make stories with
>'above average' people in extraordinary circumstances.
> Here are some recent examples:
>
It just struck me that people in a "four-color" world see things in "black
and white." Huh. I personally think that "black and white" heroes and
villains, Big Busted Babes, and megalomaniacs are pretty darn genre... I
don't have them *all* the time, but, hey, it's a comic, right?
Besides, the bar fights I usually run are more of the action film type, and
usually just for this one mutant FBI agent, whose player really enjoys them.
Bank robberies, yeah, guilty as charged. Sometimes, you just *don't* have
a scenario... that, and fights in a shopping mall.
>(a) A platoon of space marines is sent to the Mars to quell a major civil
>disobedience when they stumble upon a strange discovery...
>
How is this *not* tired? I'm sorry, but I've seen it... and it doesn't
really fit the superhero mold *at all*... unless you're talking
space-faring supers, *maybe*. For a Hero game, sure... pretty easy.
>(b) Correctional officers are in charge of transporting a superpowered
>pyromanic across country. Funny thing is, the pyromanic doesn't want out- he
>NEEDS to get to Florida in one piece to recue his lover at the Dade County
>Stronghold...
>
I'm sorry, but I don't see how this is much of a plot hook. Are the
players the guards? If so, how do they get drawn into the intrigue? I can
see them sitting on their rears eating donuts, guarding a guy who isn't
going to escape... maybe once they get there?
> (c) You play members of a militant Christian group infilitrating the a
>group of "mutilationists"...But before you meet Dr Vivisector- you are
>required to perform a live dissection to prove your worth. Do you do it? Or
>is there another way?
>
Superheroes? huh. I assume so, because of "Doc V." Woulda never thunk
it, tho.
> (d) Later in the Fall of 1998, I hope to have put together Champions 'Toy
>Story' spinoff- where the the protagonists play children's toys. The whos
>and whys aren't quite sketched out yet.
>
Um, yeah. I guess you could do it. Didn't the Micronauts have to pose as
kids toys? Or was it just that their ship was always mistaken for such?
> (f) The adventure I'm debuting for Dreamation 1998- where you finally get
>to play the super villians. (We did the playtesting for it last night it was
>the best adventure I've ever done in 14 years of GMing!)
>
I've been trying to get a good supervillain adventure up for awhile... can
you fill us in? I think it could be great... but it's not *necessarily*
original, either. DC and Marvel have both had out villain books before, I
believe. One of the newer Teen Titans villain groups is getting a one-shot
this month, actually...
Bob Greenwade wrote this:
>> Something that's been done with a fair amount of success is to just sit
>>around and say, "OK, we're not going to have an adventure tonight. We're
>>just going to have a barbecue in the backyard at team headquarters." Of
>>course, you can substitute whatever other activity the whole group would
>>enjoy -- poker game, shopping excursion, or whatever. If it's near a
>>holiday time, have them observe a holiday get-together; this is especially
>>fitting for Independence Day (in the US at least) and Christmas. But the
>>point is that they have to interact *in character*, and in the context of
>>the game.
>
>I love this idea! Very cool!
>
Yeah, I think so, too. I'll have to try it some time.
- Jerry
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 19:11:07 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures
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At 05:42 PM 12/7/97 -0500, "Case" wrote:
> Well, the problem with wanting to take over the world- it's been done to
>death. There is almost no spin that hasn't been done. Everybody wants to be
>naked and famous.
>
Eh? Is this a reference to something...? Sorry, maybe I'm being obtuse. <g>
> Here's a valid analogy: Hero and villian are wrestling with a revolver.
>Gun goes off- and the villian crumples to the floor holding his stomach.
>"You shot...me". Asleep yet??
>
Yeah, okay, it's been used a lot. But, have *I* used it yet? Nope. And,
until I do, I'm gonna consider it open game... (probably won't use it, tho)
> How about this- Hero and villian are wrestling with gun, and hero
>snatches it away. He holds the gun to the villians forehead and says,
>"Today- you died. I shot you in the head, and you feel to the ground and
>died. Your last view in your fading window of conscious will be the front of
>my boots in front of your face."
> "The very fact that I haven't taken your life yet means I own it. You
>are here listening to me because I am allowing you live long enough to
>listen to me."
> "Before I kill you, I'm going to tell you what you will miss
>tomorrow...and the next day...and the next."
> "Before I kill you, I want you to know how important your life was to
>your family..."
>
So, does he kill him? This sounds *almost* what Westley in the Princess
Bride did with Prince Humperdink ("To the death!" "No, to the Pain."), but
he didn't follow through. If the "hero" shot him like this... well, I
wouldn't want that character in my game, is all. I try and steer clear of
the "vengeful hero" type. I think *that*'s been done a little too much.
(And I don't like it.)
- Jerry
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 19:13:48 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: Regenerating limbs
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At 06:49 PM 12/7/97 EST, Egyptoid wrote:
>In a message dated 12/6/97 10:06:37 PM, rholding@ActOnline.com.au wrote:
>>> I usually allow a +1/2 "House Rule" advantage, "Regrows Limbs," which can
>>> be applied to REC, Aid (with the Healing option), or Regeneration.
>>And this is written where? Certainly not under the description of
>>regeneration in the BBB.
>
>I guess I missed the limb-severing portion of the damage rules.
>Shall I whip out my Role-Master crit conversions for Hero? :)
>
Aah! Isn't this the system that, in a fist-fight, generally comes up with
"Black eye" as a result for every other punch? My brother once got 3 of
'em in one fight...
Oh, and the ever popular "Disemboweled" result... that one comes up a lot,
too, right?
- Jerry
From: "Case" <wmpc@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures- Breaking up the monotony...
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 19:42:57 -0500
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>It just struck me that people in a "four-color" world see things in "black
>and white." Huh. I personally think that "black and white" heroes and
>villains, Big Busted Babes, and megalomaniacs are pretty darn genre... I
>don't have them *all* the time, but, hey, it's a comic, right?
>Besides, the bar fights I usually run are more of the action film type, and
>usually just for this one mutant FBI agent, whose player really enjoys
them.
>Bank robberies, yeah, guilty as charged. Sometimes, you just *don't* have
>a scenario... that, and fights in a shopping mall.
I think you may have somehow taken my comments personally. I'm not attacking
you.
I don't even know you. There's nothing wrong with four color adventures if
that's what you really like. I was only suggesting alternative ideas to
GM/Players who felt the same way....
>
>>(a) A platoon of space marines is sent to the Mars to quell a major civil
>>disobedience when they stumble upon a strange discovery...
>>
>How is this *not* tired? I'm sorry, but I've seen it... and it doesn't
>really fit the superhero mold *at all*... unless you're talking
>space-faring supers, *maybe*. For a Hero game, sure... pretty easy.
Superhero 'mold'. To me, your use of that phrase pretty much sums up the
point I'm trying to make. Something must be done about the superhero 'mold'.
>>(b) Correctional officers are in charge of transporting a superpowered
>>pyromanic across country. Funny thing is, the pyromanic doesn't want out-
he
>>NEEDS to get to Florida in one piece to recue his lover at the Dade County
>>Stronghold...
>>
>I'm sorry, but I don't see how this is much of a plot hook. Are the
>players the guards? If so, how do they get drawn into the intrigue? I can
>see them sitting on their rears eating donuts, guarding a guy who isn't
>going to escape... maybe once they get there?
>
Of course you don't see a plot hook. You don't want to. Why are you
slamming me? I'm not sure if I came off as sarcastic to you in that original
message I wrote or what. I was just trying to present different ideas that
we tried that were successful. Am I presenting these ideas in the wrong
forum? Is there another list I should be subscribing to?
Oh- the plot hook isn't immediately obvious on purpose. I want the players
to feel 'comfy'- or incredibly suspicious...
>> (d) Later in the Fall of 1998, I hope to have put together Champions 'Toy
>>Story' spinoff- where the the protagonists play children's toys. The whos
>>and whys aren't quite sketched out yet.
>>
>Um, yeah. I guess you could do it. Didn't the Micronauts have to pose as
>kids toys? Or was it just that their ship was always mistaken for such?
You got me there. I guess it was dumb for me to even suggest it.
>> (f) The adventure I'm debuting for Dreamation 1998- where you finally
get
>>to play the super villians. (We did the playtesting for it last night it
was
>>the best adventure I've ever done in 14 years of GMing!)
>>
>I've been trying to get a good supervillain adventure up for awhile... can
>you fill us in? I think it could be great... but it's not *necessarily*
>original, either. DC and Marvel have both had out villain books before, I
>believe. One of the newer Teen Titans villain groups is getting a one-shot
>this month, actually...
To be honest- I'm a little reluctant now...Everything I've typed has either
been shot done or insulted...
:(
From: "Case" <wmpc@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 19:53:08 -0500
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>> "Before I kill you, I'm going to tell you what you will miss
>>tomorrow...and the next day...and the next."
>> "Before I kill you, I want you to know how important your life was to
>>your family..."
>>
>So, does he kill him? This sounds *almost* what Westley in the Princess
>Bride did with Prince Humperdink ("To the death!" "No, to the Pain."), but
>he didn't follow through. If the "hero" shot him like this... well, I
>wouldn't want that character in my game, is all. I try and steer clear of
>the "vengeful hero" type. I think *that*'s been done a little too much.
>(And I don't like it.)
>
I think almost every story that's ever been done has been done before in
one form or another. I think we all borrow little ideas or snippets of
dialogue from movies, music, books, television. Everybody's a critic, eh?
Are you out to slam EVERYTHING I come with?
No, he doesn't kill him. He let's him go to live a new life- one that
doesn't involve killing or stealing. He's been given a second chance to
enjoy life with his family. (Why- you could say I inadvertantly 'stole' the
idea from A Christmas Carol)
-CaseMan
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 11:47:09 +1000
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> Remember the genre. If you're doing four color heroes just don't do those
>things.Even most villians don't. And they certainly don't get away with it.
>Enforce the genre.
>Have something get on them for it. Remind them of their disads, etc.
>
>
*sigh* can we stop with this sort of reasoning? genre is a guidelin or a limit to be breached, not a club for the gm. . .
From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 11:51:59 +1000
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>Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 11:55:24
>To: hero-l@emerald.omg.org
>From: jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au
>Subject: Re: Champions Adventures
>Cc: champ-l@omg.org, champ-l@omg.org
>
>
>> Remember the genre. If you're doing four color heroes just don't do those
>>things.Even most villians don't. And they certainly don't get away with it.
>>Enforce the genre.
>>Have something get on them for it. Remind them of their disads, etc.
>>
>>
>
>*sigh* can we stop with this sort of reasoning? genre is a guidelin or a limit to be breached, not a club for the gm. . .
>
>
X-Sender: jhebert@texas.net
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 20:28:01 -0600
From: Jeff Hebert <jhebert@texas.net>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures- Breaking up the monotony...
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At 07:42 PM 12/7/97 -0500, Case wrote:
<snip>
> To be honest- I'm a little reluctant now...Everything I've typed has either
>been shot done or insulted...
> :(
I have seen this happen a lot, so don't feel bad -- it's not you, it's just
a kind of feeding frenzy I have seen e-mail on this and most of the other
lists I've been privy to over the years. Something happens to people behind
the veil of e-mail ...
I thought your ideas all were interesting and had merit. Especially don't
give up on the villain idea; we have been thinking of doing much the same
thing. There are two major villain groups in our world; the Fourth Imperium
(your standard world-conquerers) and Predator (a loose gang who is just out
to make money, and will stop at nothing to get it). The campaign we were
thinking of running was to have the players make up new members of
Predator, who would then be given the assignment to rip off some high-tech
weapons from the Imperium for resale to the highest bidder. The players
then get to play completely evil characters if they want, doing whatever
pleases them, completely out of the heroic ethos. And, it makes for some
interesting play later, when the players' regular heroic characters
encounter these nefarious new Predator villains! I think (hope) it will be
a lot of fun.
Maybe even that isn't completely original (hey, what is?) but it is fun,
and that's the important thing, right?
Hang in there!
Jeff
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: TUSV: Locks
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 18:43:05 -0800
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On Thursday, December 04, 1997 9:14 AM, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
<snip>
>Not really. Using a slim jim is Lockpicking; it is just a different
attack
>on the door mechanism. The only way to defeat a slim jim is to
encase the
>entire mechaism in a box so that the tool cannot reach the mechanism.
It
>is an all or nothing deal, and seldom used except on the most
expensive of
>cars because, well, if one locks one's only set of keys inside the
only way
>in at that point is to break a window.
When I lost my only set of keys to a car I had just bought, I called a
locksmith. He took a blank key and a file, put the key in the lock,
wiggled it, examined the marks this made, and filed it with the
cylindrical file.
It took two tries and probably twenty minutes, but the key works
perfectly. Better than most cheaply copied keys I've had made at the
local Fred Meyer store. (A local "has everything" store, like Walmart
but with a full grocery store as well.)
<snip>
>To be suscinct, locks exist to thwart amateurs. Professional thieves
will
>find a way to bypass whatever security you can devise. For instance,
a
>local car theft ring allegedly had a slick trick: a flatbed car
carrier
>with an insulated shell. They'd pull into a lot, pick out a BMW,
quickly
>hoist it into the shell. The shell was a faraday cage, so it would
block
>Lojack signals, and it was padded to shut in the sound of the alarm.
>They'd drive the truck up into New Hampshire, out of range of the
Lojack
>transmitter, and chop up the car (after disconnecting the battery,
thus
>power to the alarm). I say "allegedly" because when the ring was
busted a
>few years ago the truck was never recovered.
A West Coast ring a few years ago didn't have an unusual theft method,
but did have an unusual way of getting their money. They would steal
brand new luxury cars and strip them. The insurance would pay off the
car in full, and the stripped hulk would be sold at auction. They
would buy the car, and put the parts back on it. The sale made the VIN
clear and legal, so they could sell it at legit prices, instead of the
low prices that hot cars get because they can be spotted on a simple
traffic stop.
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Worlds greatest fights
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 18:47:35 -0800
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On Thursday, December 04, 1997 9:15 AM, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>Well, since the thread has died, here are the totals:
Oops. I completely forgot my favorite gunfight: The last fight in True
Grit.
"Reach for your guns, you son of a bitch!"
Filksinger
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 22:07:42 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures
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At 07:53 PM 12/7/97 -0500, "Case" wrote (in response to me):
>>> "Before I kill you, I'm going to tell you what you will miss
>>>tomorrow...and the next day...and the next."
>>> "Before I kill you, I want you to know how important your life was to
>>>your family..."
>>>
>>So, does he kill him? This sounds *almost* what Westley in the Princess
>>Bride did with Prince Humperdink ("To the death!" "No, to the Pain."), but
>>he didn't follow through. If the "hero" shot him like this... well, I
>>wouldn't want that character in my game, is all. I try and steer clear of
>>the "vengeful hero" type. I think *that*'s been done a little too much.
>>(And I don't like it.)
>
> I think almost every story that's ever been done has been done before in
>one form or another. I think we all borrow little ideas or snippets of
>dialogue from movies, music, books, television. Everybody's a critic, eh?
>Are you out to slam EVERYTHING I come with?
>
I can agree with you on your first point. Yes, I borrow ideas constantly
from other media. You almost have to. The originality is in the
presentation. I wasn't out to slam you, I was just curious that you were
going on about not being original, and some of the other ideas were a
little stale, *to me* that is.
> No, he doesn't kill him. He let's him go to live a new life- one that
>doesn't involve killing or stealing. He's been given a second chance to
>enjoy life with his family. (Why- you could say I inadvertantly 'stole' the
>idea from A Christmas Carol)
>
With this one, I was *comparing* it (or trying to) to that scene from the
Princess Bride, because I would absolutely let one of my players get away
with that scene. However, I could also see the monologue you just wrote
being said with bitterness and bile in the character's voice, just to see
the fear and realization in the villain's eyes right before he blew his
head off.
I'm glad that your hero (even if it is just an example) didn't kill him,
and gave him a second chance. Those are the kinds of heroes I would like
in my games.
I'm sorry that my response seemed overly critical to you. The reason that
I wrote so much was to be fair and try and respond to all that you wrote.
I'll try and phrase my posts more concisely from now on.
- Jerry
X-Sender: jdriscol@mail.vt.edu
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 22:27:48 -0500
From: Jeremiah Driscoll <jdriscol@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures- Breaking up the monotony...
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At 07:42 PM 12/7/97 -0500, "Case" wrote:
>>Bank robberies, yeah, guilty as charged. Sometimes, you just *don't* have
>>a scenario... that, and fights in a shopping mall.
>
>I think you may have somehow taken my comments personally. I'm not attacking
>you.
I'm glad to hear it, although I really didn't think you were. I was saying
that I, too, have fallen into this "bank robbery" trap too often...
>I don't even know you. There's nothing wrong with four color adventures if
>that's what you really like. I was only suggesting alternative ideas to
>GM/Players who felt the same way....
>
I like alternative ideas. Again, it seems that *I've* come off the wrong
way in my replies. I'm trying to rein it in.
>>>(a) A platoon of space marines is sent to the Mars to quell a major civil
>>>disobedience when they stumble upon a strange discovery...
>>>
>>How is this *not* tired? I'm sorry, but I've seen it... and it doesn't
>>really fit the superhero mold *at all*... unless you're talking
>>space-faring supers, *maybe*. For a Hero game, sure... pretty easy.
>
>Superhero 'mold'. To me, your use of that phrase pretty much sums up the
>point I'm trying to make. Something must be done about the superhero 'mold'.
>
Okay, I guess I'm not getting the point, then. Is this a definition of
terms disagreement? When I think of Supers, it's usually crime-fighting,
world-saving stuff. I usually don't think of space marines as *super*
heroes, although it would well be within the realm of heroism.
Would it be possible for you to elaborate, please?
>>I'm sorry, but I don't see how this is much of a plot hook. Are the
>>players the guards? If so, how do they get drawn into the intrigue? I can
>>see them sitting on their rears eating donuts, guarding a guy who isn't
>>going to escape... maybe once they get there?
>>
> Of course you don't see a plot hook. You don't want to. Why are you
>slamming me? I'm not sure if I came off as sarcastic to you in that original
>message I wrote or what. I was just trying to present different ideas that
>we tried that were successful. Am I presenting these ideas in the wrong
>forum? Is there another list I should be subscribing to?
>
I *do* want to, really. I see a couple of possibilities. The transport is
assaulted by well-meaning but misguided friends of the incarcerated, and he
has to fight *them* off to get taken away. The PCs get involved with the
other plot because the prisoner asks them to. It could be the prisoner is
a PC himself.
I'm not trying to slam you. I think this is all just coming out so wrong...
This forum is for you, and this, really.
> Oh- the plot hook isn't immediately obvious on purpose. I want the players
>to feel 'comfy'- or incredibly suspicious...
>
Ok. The main reason that I was asking was because I didn't know exactly
what you were getting at with it, and I was curious. That's a good thing,
honest. : )
>>> (d) Later in the Fall of 1998, I hope to have put together Champions 'Toy
>>>Story' spinoff- where the the protagonists play children's toys. The whos
>>>and whys aren't quite sketched out yet.
>>>
>>Um, yeah. I guess you could do it. Didn't the Micronauts have to pose as
>>kids toys? Or was it just that their ship was always mistaken for such?
>
>You got me there. I guess it was dumb for me to even suggest it.
>
I wasn't trying to say that. I was mentioning a possibility... I know I
phrased it wrong. I don't know if that idea would be for me, and I've
never thought of it, so I was curious about the thinking behind it. That's
all.
>>> (f) The adventure I'm debuting for Dreamation 1998- where you finally
>get
>>>to play the super villians. (We did the playtesting for it last night it
>was
>>>the best adventure I've ever done in 14 years of GMing!)
>>>
>>I've been trying to get a good supervillain adventure up for awhile... can
>>you fill us in? I think it could be great... but it's not *necessarily*
>>original, either. DC and Marvel have both had out villain books before, I
>>believe. One of the newer Teen Titans villain groups is getting a one-shot
>>this month, actually...
>
> To be honest- I'm a little reluctant now...Everything I've typed has either
>been shot done or insulted...
> :(
>
I *would* like to hear it. (And *not* because I want to insult it or shoot
it down, Case.) I was just pointing out that you were saying these were
different than the "four color" 'mold' that you wanted to get away from.
Some of them are, but I'm not sure if they're completely outside the
'mold'. Maybe that's what you want, is to take that further step.
- Jerry
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:40:28 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: CHAR: Shaggy
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> Although through the years Scooby-Doo (the show) continued on a
> downhill slide until it became Shaggy, Scooby and Scrappy stumbling into
> a random storefront, only to be chased by a monster for 22 minutes,
> there was a comeback.
Gee, and I thought I was the only one to notice this.
> "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo" was an EXCELENT parody/homage to the
> original series, starring all the 'kids' as kids. I thoroughly abhor
Never watched it, actually.
> the entire genre of the "___-kids" rash of several years ago, but this
I don't know -- Tiny Toons was hillarious, and Muppet Babies had
some really good voice talents working on it, as well as the (quite)
amusing movie clips.
> show surpassed said shortcoming and shone out as a show which celebrated
> all the good of Scooby-Doo and reveled in the genre of The Cartoon.
Hmmm. I'll try to check it out. At least that's some consolation
after what they did to my Transformers. (Beast Wars, shudder.)
> We now return you to your regularly scheduled RPG topic(s)
Yes, now we do.
-Tim Gilberg
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:43:43 -0600 (CST)
From: "Tim R. Gilberg" <trgilber@hilltop.ic.edu>
Cc: champ-l@omg.org
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures
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>
> > I was wondering if anyone was interested in talking about their _role
> >playing experiences_ in the Champions universe. How many people still play
> >the 4-color brand of Champions? We used to play 4-color adventures for the
> >longest time, until we got into a terrible rut- playing every tired cliche
> >in the book
>
> My advice: Watch the news and read the newspapers and get ideas from
> there. True, many ideas aren't really 4 colorish, but it can make for some
> interesting Dark Champions adventures. In fact, I'm working on one such
> idea as I write this.
Exactly. One example, while not exactly Champions: In a White
Wolf Vampire campaign, the GM based a story around the crashing of that
commuter plain a few years back in Gary, Indiana. Something about some
big inconnu thing.
-Tim Gilberg
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 19:50:04 -0800
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On Friday, December 05, 1997 1:36 PM, Michael Surbrook wrote:
<snip>
>The fact that I am hanging in the air is not a special effect.
Whatever is
>keeping me that way is. If you cannot detect what it is that is
holding me
>aloft, I need IPE on my Flight.
Long ago, in the descriptions of special effects, Flight was
specifically stated to be able to be a simple lifting into the air
without visible support. This was not before IPE.
As usual, they neglected to state whether or not this was the same in
the new 4th Ed. rules.
>Or can I get IPE for free on my Energy Blast? I mean, you can see
the
>damage it does, and hear the breaking of things I hit, etc.
Good point, but not quite the same. A key part of a visible EB is that
it shows you clearly where it is coming from. This does not apply to
flight. A Force Field with IPE has the advantage that your attackers
do not know if you are protected or not at any moment. This, also,
does not apply to flight.
I don't necessarily disagree, but it isn't that cut and dried.
Filksinger
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 21:52:13 -0800
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
>
> As far as the wooshing goes, a glider might be a good example to consider.
> I don't really have any firsthand experience with those, but my guess
> would be that they don't really woosh. Of course, they're probably
> relatively slow too.
And, of course, Gliding normally costs no END, therefore is IPE by
default. My word! Do you think that this may have been intentional?
;-)
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 22:12:53 -0800
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Invisible Flight (Was Re: CHAR: Stanis Grackleflint)
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qts wrote:
>
> On Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:40:29 -0500 (EST), Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
> >> >On a related topic, I have heard pretty convincing arguments that a
> >> >human-sized object breaking the sound barrier would *not* cause a
> >> >significant sonic boom
[rejoinders omitted to save bandwidth]
> >boom wouldn't do as much damage as a low flying jet, due to the lesser
> >amount of displaced air?
>
> This depends upon how you define significant, then, I suppose. My take
> is that if you *want* your hero to cause damage, just take a linked <g>
> EB vs PD. OTOH if you want your PC to go supersonic without being
> heard, you must take IPE: Hearing
On the third hand, a sufficiently intense visible SFX can have measurable
(albeit small) game effects. Looking *directly* at a lightning bolt
could result in spots in front of your eyes for a few seconds (1D6 Flash
attack, only reduces CV/PER by 2. A sonic boom can rattle teacups or
break small fragile objects (1/2D6 EB, large Area of Effect).
IMHO the intensity of the light, sound, etc. that a visible power
produces increases monotonically (and often proportionately) with the
active point total of the power. Equivalently, from a game-balance
perspective, I am willing to give people free side effects around 10% of
the active total of the power in question. These effects will generally
be irrelevant to PCs, except as plot hooks, comic relief and the
occasional creative use of powers, such as using a Sonic Boom to attack
the Crystal Creature, which has a BODY Vulnerability to sonics.
--
<------------------------------------------------------->
Robert A. West /// "Censorship is tyranny."
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113
http://www.erols.com/robtwest
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Any Published Champions Speedsters?
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:57:58 -0800
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On Sunday, December 07, 1997 12:41 PM, Rook wrote:
>Hello;
> In my quest for info on Speedsters I have one more question.
>
>Are they any Speedsters published in any Champions books. So far I've
>been unable to find any.
>
>Any edition of the game will do.
The Great Supervillain Contest had The Dash, who was a speedster. He
had an extremely small flying girlfriend named, I believe, Microwave.
She liked to hide in his collar under his hair. If he got knocked out,
she would fly him to safety.
The book suggested that if a player asked, "How can I get flight that
activates when I am unconscious and flies me to safety?" that the GM
reply, "Ask The Dash" and grin evilly.<eg>
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition Hero Syste
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:45:59 -0800
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On Wednesday, December 03, 1997 6:17 PM, Trevor Barrie wrote:
<snip>
>
>They do more BODY, comparable STUN, and get a form of AVLD for free.
>Against that we have that they can't be spread which, on its own,
isn't
>even enough to merit a -1/4 Limitation. Doesn't seem balanced to me.
In the Digital Heroes archives at the Hero Games website
(www.herogames.com), there is an article on optional rules for EBs.
For a +1/4 Advantage, they suggest that an EB can be exactly the same
as it is now, but all damage is done as killing damage. For a -1/4
Limitation, it loses the ability to bounce or spread, and this is
supposed to balance it. The end result is supposed to be a EB that
looses the "stun lottery" effect, but is otherwise equivalent to the
present RKA (and the same price as a normal EB).
Filksinger
Reply-To: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures- Breaking up the monotony...
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:48:13 -0800
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On Sunday, December 07, 1997 4:09 PM, Case wrote:
<snip>
>
> To be honest- I'm a little reluctant now...Everything I've typed has
either
>been shot done or insulted...
> :(
>
Don't give up. I don't think any real insult was intended. As for
shooting things down, this list is good at that. The other poster
didn't prove your ideas worthless, the poster just showed that _he_
didn't like your ideas. That doesn't change the fact that they are
perfectly good ideas.
Filksinger
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 23:53:52 -0800
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Champions Adventures- Breaking up the monotony...
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Case wrote (albeit not in this order):
> To be honest- I'm a little reluctant now...Everything I've typed has either
> been shot done or insulted...
> :(
Oh, come on now! I have been catching up on a thousand-message backlog and