Week Ending June 20, 1998

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From: "John Desmarais" <john.desmarais@ibm.net> 
To: "Champions Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org&> 
        "Michael Surbrook" <susano@access.digex.net> 
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 02:42:48 +0500 
Reply-To: "John Desmarais" <john.desmarais@ibm.net> 
Subject: Re: Power Pool Question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 00:19:01 -0400 (EDT), Michael Surbrook wrote: 
 
>Okay, the character in question, through the use of Kirby science, 
>Clairmont and Comic Book Physics, carrys around a small box containing a 
>bunch of little capsules.  Hit the button and toss the capsule and 'pop' 
>instant gadget!  Now, one can cram almost *anything* into one of these. 
>Guns, swords, cars, planes, a boat, a refrigerator full of beer, a small 
>house... anything.   
> 
>I built this power like this: 
> 
>175	HoiPoi Capsules: Variable Power Pool (100 Point Pool) 
>	No Skill Roll (+1), Can Change Powers as 0 Phase Action (+1),  
>	IIF: HoiPoi Capsules (-1/4), Gestures (must throw) (-1/4) 
> 
>Now, this lets me have a mess of gadgets yes... but what about vehicles 
>and bases?  Do GMs have a hard time accepting items like that in a 'gadget 
>pool'?  If yes, how would one go about buying a pool of such things?  Bob? 
>Any suggestions from the TUSV? 
 
As a GM I generally wouldn't allow vehicles or bases to be bought through a pool (or  
any other perk for that matter). Now, as for how you get the effect your after... hmm... 
 
Vehicles: Forget the fact that it's a vehicle and instead concentrate on what you're  
trying to do.  As an example: Want to carry a bunch of folks through the air?  How about  
enough TK to lift the folks in question, a force wall bubble just large enough to contain  
everyone, and the rest of the points in flight: special effect = airplane.  (Yeah, I know, it's  
not perfect, but it is does have the advantage of being entirely kosher within the rules). 
 
Bases: Eh, similar nonsense to my vehicle. 
 
btw, not to nitpick, but shouldn't that pool cost 200 points? 
 
Power Pool = 100 
Control = (50 * 3) / 1.5 = 100 
 
Pool + Control = 200 
 
 
-=>John Desmarais	 
 
 
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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:45:02 -0300 (ADT) 
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net> 
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Cpt Metropolis 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
On Sat, 13 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
 
> > > 15	Secret ID: Nelson Gardner; Homosexual 
> >  
> > Being homosexual should be good for a Distinctive Features, above and 
> > beyond the standard Secret ID that most all of the Minuteman have. 
>  
> How is it a DF?  A DF is something most people can spot just by looking at 
> you. 
 
Well, Western Hero suggests using Distinctive Features to represent 
membership in a group which faces discrimination. I only specifically 
remember them mentioning visible minorities, granted, but I don't think 
it's too much of a stretch to extend it to other groups (who would of 
course take it at the "Easily concealable" level). 
 
Basically, homosexuality is a disadvantage only in that it influences 
society's/people's reactions to the character. Distinctive Features 
is the Disadvantage whose mechanics are suited to represent that. 
 
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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:49:52 -0300 (ADT) 
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net> 
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Dr. Manhattan 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
On Sat, 13 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
 
> > > DR. MANHATTAN 
> > > (Jon Osterman) 
> > >  
> > > Val	CHA	Cost	Roll	Notes 
> > > 75	STR	65	24-	800 tons; 15d6 
> >  
> > I don't know that he ever displays great physical strength, except when 
> > he's grown to immense size. (But then, why would he need to?) 
>  
> Actually he does.  In Chapter 1, when Rorschach is in his lab, we see him 
> casually lift some immense machine while Rorschach and Silk Spectre II 
> talk. 
 
So he does. Seems a bit out of character, though. 
 
> > > 50	INT	40	19-	PER Roll 19- 
> >  
> > Did the accident actually increase his intelligence? 
>  
> Possibly.  But, INT isn't so much a measure of 'smarts' as fast thinking. 
> He can watch neutrinos at play, he needs a pretty good INT to process that 
> sort of data. 
 
I'll buy that. 
 
> > > 30	PRE	20	15-	PRE Attack: 6d6 
> >  
> > This may actually be too low. 
>  
> Hmm... dunno.  This is the base Doctor, it doesn't count what happens when 
> he grows to 60 plus feet high (or melts a tank). 
 
True, but read Hollis Mason's description of meeting Manhattan for the 
first time at a fundraising event of some kind. (From the last excerpt 
from Under the Hood, last page.) 
 
> > > 15	Physical Limitation: All actions are predetermined 
> >  
> > I'd write this up as a Psychological Limitation. After all, the only 
> > difference between Manhattan and everybody else is that he _knows_ his 
> > actions are predetermined. 
>  
> Yes, but he can't use an EGO roll to do something *not* predetermined, now 
> can he? 
 
No, but neither can anybody else. 
 
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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:52:56 -0300 (ADT) 
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net> 
To: Champions News Group <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: New topic: Teleportation & Usable Against Others 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Anthony Jackson wrote: 
 
> I am increasingly fond of removing the 'usable against others' power entirely 
> -- use another power. 
 
Yep. Usable Against Others is pretty much inherently a crock. Teleport 
and XDM would probably need to include some sort of mechanic for making 
them usable against others in the actual Power description (alternately, 
a new Power(s) could be created for this purpose). Any other use for 
UAO can be done with another, more appropriate Power. 
 
> In many cases this will be transform. 
 
Or Telekinesis. 
 
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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:54:45 -0300 (ADT) 
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net> 
Reply-To: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net> 
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Moloch 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
 
> 50	'Mastermind' option (allows Molch to use 250 pts for bases, 
> 	followers and vehicles) 
 
I don't believe the "Mastermind option" made it into 4th Edition... and 
as I recall, the 3rd Edition Mastermind option allowed the villain to 
have a base, etc equal in total points to his or her own point total. 
In Moloch's case, that's less than 250. 
 
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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 21:53:58 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Dr. Manhattan 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
On Sat, 13 Jun 1998, Trevor Barrie wrote: 
 
> > > > 30	PRE	20	15-	PRE Attack: 6d6 
> > >  
> > > This may actually be too low. 
> >  
> > Hmm... dunno.  This is the base Doctor, it doesn't count what happens when 
> > he grows to 60 plus feet high (or melts a tank). 
>  
> True, but read Hollis Mason's description of meeting Manhattan for the 
> first time at a fundraising event of some kind. (From the last excerpt 
> from Under the Hood, last page.) 
 
I upped the Doc's EGO to 30 and his PRE to 40. 
  
> > > > 15	Physical Limitation: All actions are predetermined 
> > >  
> > > I'd write this up as a Psychological Limitation. After all, the only 
> > > difference between Manhattan and everybody else is that he _knows_ his 
> > > actions are predetermined. 
> >  
> > Yes, but he can't use an EGO roll to do something *not* predetermined, now 
> > can he? 
>  
> No, but neither can anybody else. 
 
If this was a PC, this disad would kill all spontinaity of the character. 
A lot of Dr. M's stats are negated by this disad.  He dosn't save Kennedy, 
he doesn't save Comedian from getting his face slashed, he doesn't save 
the woman Comedian shoots.  He can't make an Ego roll to do something 
different 'just this once'.  This Phys lim forces the GM to map out the 
doctor's reactions in advance, as opposed to making an Ego roll to abort 
to some 'other' action.  Basiaclly, I feel this Phys Lim makes Dr. M a 
'puppet' removing him from the equation of 'what if the PCs do 'X'' be 
cuase the Dr. M will never do anything the GM doesn't want him to.  Unlike 
other GMPC which *may* react based on Psych Lims in an 'unwanted matter'.   
 
Does this make sense? 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        *    
*              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             * 
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 21:55:36 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Cpt Metropolis 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
On Sat, 13 Jun 1998, Trevor Barrie wrote: 
 
> > > > 15	Secret ID: Nelson Gardner; Homosexual 
> > >  
> > > Being homosexual should be good for a Distinctive Features, above and 
> > > beyond the standard Secret ID that most all of the Minuteman have. 
> >  
> > How is it a DF?  A DF is something most people can spot just by looking at 
> > you. 
>  
> Well, Western Hero suggests using Distinctive Features to represent 
> membership in a group which faces discrimination. I only specifically 
> remember them mentioning visible minorities, granted, but I don't think 
> it's too much of a stretch to extend it to other groups (who would of 
> course take it at the "Easily concealable" level). 
 
Hmm... possibly.  Persoanlly, I prefer using SID right now.  Once 
discovered it could become a DF (or a Reputation). 
  
> Basically, homosexuality is a disadvantage only in that it influences 
> society's/people's reactions to the character. Distinctive Features 
> is the Disadvantage whose mechanics are suited to represent that. 
 
Right now.  I thik 5th Edition needs to work on this. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        *    
*              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             * 
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*************************************************************************** 
 
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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 21:57:16 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Moloch 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
On Sat, 13 Jun 1998, Trevor Barrie wrote: 
 
> On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>  
> > 50	'Mastermind' option (allows Molch to use 250 pts for bases, 
> > 	followers and vehicles) 
>  
> I don't believe the "Mastermind option" made it into 4th Edition... and 
> as I recall, the 3rd Edition Mastermind option allowed the villain to 
> have a base, etc equal in total points to his or her own point total. 
> In Moloch's case, that's less than 250. 
 
Actually the Mastermind option reappears in Gold Age of Champions.  This 
is not meant to be that sort of option (note the '' around the word).  In 
effect, I cheated a bit and just handed MMoloch a pool of 50 points to use 
for whatever he needs.   
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        *    
*              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             * 
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
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*************************************************************************** 
 
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Reply-To: <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au> 
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Dr. Manhattan 
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:08:12 +1000 
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
>  
> If this was a PC, this disad would kill all spontinaity of the character. 
> A lot of Dr. M's stats are negated by this disad.  He dosn't save 
Kennedy, 
> he doesn't save Comedian from getting his face slashed, he doesn't save 
> the woman Comedian shoots.  He can't make an Ego roll to do something 
> different 'just this once'.  This Phys lim forces the GM to map out the 
> doctor's reactions in advance, as opposed to making an Ego roll to abort 
> to some 'other' action.  Basiaclly, I feel this Phys Lim makes Dr. M a 
> 'puppet' removing him from the equation of 'what if the PCs do 'X'' be 
> cuase the Dr. M will never do anything the GM doesn't want him to.  
Unlike 
> other GMPC which *may* react based on Psych Lims in an 'unwanted matter'. 
  
>  
> Does this make sense? 
>  
 
this is the difference between a character and a pc, or even a character 
and 
an npc. For instance, i could suggest that making the doc infinite in power 
in any rpg would be unfair to any other cosmis types wandering around.  
You might suggest that he'd only be present in otherwise low-power 
settings,  
but the point remains- is this a portrayal of a character simply for 
observations sake,  
or is knows everything boy actually gonna turn up in a cappaign?  
 
 
 
> 
*************************************************************************** 
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion 
*  
> *               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                
*  
> *        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        
*    
> *              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             
* 
> *            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            
* 
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark 
* 
> 
*************************************************************************** 
>  
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 00:19:01 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Power Pool Question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
Okay, the character in question, through the use of Kirby science, 
Clairmont and Comic Book Physics, carrys around a small box containing a 
bunch of little capsules.  Hit the button and toss the capsule and 'pop' 
instant gadget!  Now, one can cram almost *anything* into one of these. 
Guns, swords, cars, planes, a boat, a refrigerator full of beer, a small 
house... anything.   
 
I built this power like this: 
 
175	HoiPoi Capsules: Variable Power Pool (100 Point Pool) 
	No Skill Roll (+1), Can Change Powers as 0 Phase Action (+1),  
	IIF: HoiPoi Capsules (-1/4), Gestures (must throw) (-1/4) 
 
Now, this lets me have a mess of gadgets yes... but what about vehicles 
and bases?  Do GMs have a hard time accepting items like that in a 'gadget 
pool'?  If yes, how would one go about buying a pool of such things?  Bob? 
Any suggestions from the TUSV? 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        *    
*              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             * 
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
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Reply-To: <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au> 
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Hard Light Heroes.  
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:22:36 +1000 
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
2157. Hyper-technology and megacorperations rule over filthy streets  
peopled with cyber-trash and the occasional beaver who took the wrong turn 
at the tubeway. Injustice runs rampant, guns are clearly overused, who will 
step into  
this fray? 
Well, a superheroic poser gang of course! Dressed in guady outfits and 
skilled in martial arts and cyberware, a band of stalwart do-gooders take 
to the streets  
and try to make a difference!  
and fail 
MISerably.  
Several months later, while working on bizzare subspacial generation 
technology,  
one of their members dissapear, and then they all do. A month or two after 
THAT,  
their abandoned super-persona turn up on the streets again- with POWER.  
Ya know, bullet-bouncing, tank lifting, bomb swallowing power. 
It seems this guy has stumbled upon a great breakthrough- secure Hard-light 
Hologramatic generators. With them his friends and he can leap into some  
virtual reality couches and control a pack of physically improbable super 
beings.  
It's like a computer game in the real world. Now, my questions are,  
 
how would you protray this? I figured duplication but *shrug* 
 
What kind of powers could they have, and what kind will they all have? 
(i'm interested both in what people think a hard light hologram can do,  
and what it will do automatically) 
 
What kind of lmits can you think of? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
"Enslave humanity willya?" 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 00:07:52 -0500 
To: champ-l@sysabend.org 
From: "Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net> 
Subject: Re: bases 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
>One of my groups wanted to do a Danger Room, but we found the entire  
>concept grossly underspecified.  IIRC, there was a more extensive  
>discussion in Champions III of Danger Rooms, but my copy is packed away  
>somewhere.   
 
Champions III did indeed devote 15 pages to the design and construction of 
danger rooms and their contents; you may want to dig out your copy. 
According to the article, there are four main types of equipment in a 
Danger Room:  weapons, robots, traps (including Surrounding Traps, Covering 
Traps and Grabbing Traps and walls.   
 
The article describes how to set the Danger Room's base Lethality, 
Accuracy, Toughness and Speed parameters -- without once using the phrase 
"dials and switches" ;) -- upon entering the room.  You can use the Danger 
Room for individual or team practice, exercise, or you can wager XPTS.  I 
found this last to be kind of a silly idea, myself. 
 
The Danger Room article really should be rewritten for 4th/5th Edition.  In 
its current (Champions III) form, the cost of the room is determined by 
adding up the max value of the four ratings (Lethality, Accuracy, Toughness 
and Speed...the Danger Room's LATS number, perhaps?) and dividing by two, 
rather than being based on what's actually in the room.  The contents of 
the room (robots, walls, etc.) is determined by *die roll*, as is the 
combat capability of each item.  The Danger Room really should produce 
these attacks/obstacles from a VPP. 
 
BASE RATINGS VALUES FOR THE DANGER ROOM 
Lethality = Character's Largest Defense / 3 
Accuracy  = Character's Maximum DCV (incl. Dodge) / 2 
Toughness = Character's Maximum Damage in D6 (incl. Push) / 2 
Speed     = Character's SPD 
 
Oh, BTW, the mention of Champions III prompted me to look for other 
references to bases and such.  Steve Peterson describes "The Ultimate Base" 
in Adventurer's Club #26.  This article was supposed to have appeared in 
"Enemies Assemble!" but it was cut for space considerations.  Six pages 
detail the Ultimate Mastermind's 32,000 hex base, with its Command Level, 
Residence Level, Research Level, Manufacturing Level, and Physical Plant 
all tucked away under a mountain. 
 
Damon 
 
|--------------------------------------------------------------------| 
|****************** Beware of geeks bearing .GIFs *******************| 
|--------------------------------------------------------------------| 
|Damon & Peni's homepages: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3401/     | 
|   Children's Books -- Dolls -- X-Files -- Pulp Magazines           | 
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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:11:10 -0700 
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com> 
To: champ-l@sysabend.org 
Subject: Re: bases 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin wrote: 
>  
> At 10:44 PM 6/11/98 -0500, Palace of Dwarves wrote: 
> > 
> >        In my current campaign, my PC's have a base.  They have been trying 
> >to come up 
> >with ideas on how to spend the points for the base.  Any suggestions for 
> them? 
>  
> Danger Room. 
 
One of my groups wanted to do a Danger Room, but we found the entire  
concept grossly underspecified.  IIRC, there was a more extensive  
discussion in Champions III of Danger Rooms, but my copy is packed away  
somewhere.  What are people's suggestions and experiences for pointing  
up a Danger Room?   
 
--  
<-------------------------------------------------------> 
Robert A. West		///  "Censorship is tyranny." 
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113   
http://www.erols.com/robtwest 
 
 
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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:27:26 -0700 
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com> 
To: Hero Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: Hunted... Why? 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
Bob Greenwade wrote: 
>  
>    Here's an exercise in thought.  (Maybe it'll help Steve when he comes to 
> the appropriate part of the Fifth Edition Rulebook, too!) 
>    What are some of the reasons you can think of that a character might 
> have the Hunted Disadvantage?  These are the ones I can come up with: 
> [major snip] 
 
Unrequited Love turned Obsession: the Hunter is someone who is in love  
with the Hero, but the Hero does not reciprocate.  This is quite amusing  
as a mystery hunted.  One of my PCs, who is not on good terms with  
Law Enforcement, wokes up one morning to find lipstick on his cheek and a  
giftwrapped box on his pillow.  Of course, the present was a valuable  
antique from a recent robbery, which complicated things greatly. 
 
"Scientific" Interest: the Hunter wants to perform some experiments:  
possibly to duplicate some power the Hero has, or because the Hunter  
believes that the Hero can provide a needed component.  Whatever it is,  
it will not be pleasant for the Hero.  You can even make the goal  
sympathetic, even if the means are not: Red Dragon wants to cure his  
daughter of a dreadful disease, but the proposed cure requires an extract  
from Mr. Wizard's brain that will leave Mr. Wizard a mental vegetable. 
 
--  
<-------------------------------------------------------> 
Robert A. West		///  "Censorship is tyranny." 
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113   
http://www.erols.com/robtwest 
 
 
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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 23:27:42 -0700 
From: James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com> 
Reply-To: jimalj@best.com 
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: Power Pool Question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
> Now, this lets me have a mess of gadgets yes... but what about vehicles 
> and bases?  Do GMs have a hard time accepting items like that in a 'gadget 
> pool'?  If yes, how would one go about buying a pool of such things?  Bob? 
> Any suggestions from the TUSV? 
 
There are two completely official ways I can see to do this:  first is to buy 
the vehicle and then give it enough Shrinking to be the size of the pill.  The 
Shrinking would need 0 END, possibly Persistent, and I can't think of too many 
limitations for it.  Perhaps it could take Full Power Only for -1/4, and 
possibly be put in a multipower with some other function of the vehicle that it 
doesn't have when shrunk.  You may also need Shape Change into pill form.  Ugh. 
 
The other is to buy everything you want the vehicle to do, presumably including 
movement and defenses, in the Variable Pool and buy it so that it can carry 
other people.  Don't be surprised if you just don't have enough points, even 
with a hundred. 
 
Perhaps you could buy the vehicle as a Summoning, and buy it seperately as a 
vehicle to get rid of the whole "summoned creature is hostile" problem.  Some 
will view this as using Summoning to teleport a character to you, though, and 
wonder where the vehicle is in the interim, and things like that. 
 
On my Incomplete Characters page, I have a Friendly advantage for Summoning 
(not originally my idea, but I don't remember where that one came from).  In my 
version, it would be a +1/4 advantage to Summon a friendly vehicle.  You'd then 
have to leave the Pool in the Summoning power until such time as you sent it 
away. 
 
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher 
www.javaman.to/philosopher.html 
www.javaman.to/hero.html 
www.javaman.to/incomp.html 
 
 
 
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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 23:44:42 -0700 
From: James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com> 
Reply-To: jimalj@best.com 
To: champ-l@sysabend.org 
Subject: Re: Hard Light Heroes. 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
> how would you protray this? I figured duplication but *shrug* 
 
The main problem with Duplication is that the Superhero will disappear when the 
power is unplugged (at least, I would expect it to, considering your 
description).  This is far more expensive to buy than it is probably worth 
under the official rules, the more obvious ways to buy it.  Possibly use 
Extradimensional Movement and have them disappear into nothingness, triggered 
when the power is unplugged, but that would require GM permission, as it is 
"abusive" (I use quotes because it gets the job done, but in a way that is 
quite inexpensive, and could be abusive if used in other contexts), and many 
are reticent to use it that way.  If you have a Mind Link with the Duplicate, 
the Trigger could be set to go off based on the Mind Link. 
 
An interesting note is that, no matter what, the holograms would be the primary 
character, and would purchase the cyberpunks as the duplicates, as they will be 
presumably the higher point characters. 
 
Another problem is that, you need to be sure to have an explanation for why it 
is that the hologram dies permanently.  I wouldn't expect this to be too hard. 
The alternative is to have a very expensive set of abilities to bring it back 
to life. 
 
Lastly, you could have a Summoning/Follower combination or a Friendly 
Summoning.  Have a Mind Link with the summoned "superhero" and have a Side 
Effect of Mental Illusions on the Summoning:  you see what the superhero sees, 
are effectively there.  This is a limitation because it leaves the cyberpunk 
immobile and helpless, the Mind Link power is what causes the information to be 
transmitted.  The Summoning would be bought with an Immobile Focus as well. 
Make sure the base is well defended. 
 
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher 
www.javaman.to/philosopher.html 
www.javaman.to/hero.html 
www.javaman.to/incomp.html 
 
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Reply-To: <jonesmj@topaz.cqu.edu.au> 
From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au> 
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: Hard Light Heroes. 
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 17:46:28 +1000 
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
>  
> > how would you protray this? I figured duplication but *shrug* 
>  
> The main problem with Duplication is that the Superhero will disappear 
when the 
> power is unplugged (at least, I would expect it to, considering your 
> description).  This is far more expensive to buy than it is probably 
worth 
> under the official rules, the more obvious ways to buy it.  Possibly use 
> Extradimensional Movement and have them disappear into nothingness, 
triggered 
> when the power is unplugged, but that would require GM permission, as it 
is 
> "abusive" (I use quotes because it gets the job done, but in a way that 
is 
> quite inexpensive, and could be abusive if used in other contexts), and 
many 
> are reticent to use it that way.  If you have a Mind Link with the 
Duplicate, 
> the Trigger could be set to go off based on the Mind Link. 
>  
 
Well, that actually works in well with the sci-fi-esque basis of the power. 
 
The data is beamed through subspace, and when one takes the physical form  
offline a net-like 'avatar' is left in subspace momentarily. The other idea 
i had was desolid leading up to a teleport. . . 
 
> An interesting note is that, no matter what, the holograms would be the 
primary 
> character, and would purchase the cyberpunks as the duplicates, as they 
will be 
> presumably the higher point characters. 
>  
 
That's one of my problems. These things are indestructable (virtually)  
but if they die. . i guess the feedback would take their controller  
offline, i.e. blow out his frontal lobe. Hmmm, more of a risk is cool. . . 
 
> Another problem is that, you need to be sure to have an explanation for 
why it 
> is that the hologram dies permanently.  I wouldn't expect this to be too 
hard. 
> The alternative is to have a very expensive set of abilities to bring it 
back 
> to life. 
>  
 
Yeah. . .special rare power crystal burns out, ect. . . 
 
> Lastly, you could have a Summoning/Follower combination or a Friendly 
> Summoning.  Have a Mind Link with the summoned "superhero" and have a 
Side 
> Effect of Mental Illusions on the Summoning:  you see what the superhero 
sees, 
> are effectively there.  This is a limitation because it leaves the 
cyberpunk 
> immobile and helpless, the Mind Link power is what causes the information 
to be 
> transmitted.  The Summoning would be bought with an Immobile Focus as 
well. 
> Make sure the base is well defended. 
>  
 
Oh hell yes. in orbit or something. I was thinking of making it it in a 
safe zone,  
, but i might just make it semi-vunerable. .  
 
 
 
> JAJ, Gaming Philosopher 
> www.javaman.to/philosopher.html 
> www.javaman.to/hero.html 
> www.javaman.to/incomp.html 
>  
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:03:05 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Dr. Manhattan 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, happyelf wrote: 
 
<snip> 
 
> this is the difference between a character and a pc, or even a character 
> and 
> an npc. For instance, i could suggest that making the doc infinite in power 
> in any rpg would be unfair to any other cosmis types wandering around.  
> You might suggest that he'd only be present in otherwise low-power 
> settings,  
> but the point remains- is this a portrayal of a character simply for 
> observations sake,  
> or is knows everything boy actually gonna turn up in a cappaign?  
 
Does it matter?  I wrote him up purely for 'observations sake'.  If 
someone wants to use him, go right ahead.  I have no idea if anyone ever 
uses any of the character adaptions I post to the list, and I don't care 
if anyone does.  They are written up for my amusement. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        *    
*              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             * 
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 07:09:42 -0700 
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Power Pool Question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
At 12:19 AM 6/14/1998 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>Now, this lets me have a mess of gadgets yes... but what about vehicles 
>and bases?  Do GMs have a hard time accepting items like that in a 'gadget 
>pool'?  If yes, how would one go about buying a pool of such things?  Bob? 
>Any suggestions from the TUSV? 
 
   Not really, though some of my early notes for TUG lets a gadgeteer have 
Vehicles as part of a Gadget Pool.  Just treat the vehicle as though it 
were already OAF (as part of the 5:1 cost ratio), assume most other 
Limitations are only in regards to bringing the vehicle into being, and go 
from there. 
   BTW, this is what Dave and I have come to call a Walking Department 
Store Pool, from Steven Today's desription of Shag from the Road Rovers. 
Shag is, perhaps, the ultimate cartoon Walking Department Store; he's 
pulled all sorts of things from under his fur, including a laptop computer, 
a rocket launcher, a sofa and matching loveseat, and (on two separate 
occasions) teammates. 
--- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROs member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring!  (Wanna join?) 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 07:13:11 -0700 
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Power Pool Question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
At 11:27 PM 6/13/1998 -0700, James Jandebeur wrote: 
>> Now, this lets me have a mess of gadgets yes... but what about vehicles 
>> and bases?  Do GMs have a hard time accepting items like that in a 'gadget 
>> pool'?  If yes, how would one go about buying a pool of such things?  Bob? 
>> Any suggestions from the TUSV? 
> 
>There are two completely official ways I can see to do this:  first is to buy 
>the vehicle and then give it enough Shrinking to be the size of the pill. 
The 
>Shrinking would need 0 END, possibly Persistent, and I can't think of too 
many 
>limitations for it.  Perhaps it could take Full Power Only for -1/4, and 
>possibly be put in a multipower with some other function of the vehicle 
that it 
>doesn't have when shrunk.  You may also need Shape Change into pill form. 
Ugh. 
 
   I don't think this is really necessary.  From what I gather, the vehicle 
is basically useless until drawn from the Pool, so everything that would be 
covered by Shrinking, Shape Shift, and such can be written off as Special 
Effects (since there's no real benefit that isn't already paid for with the 
Pool Control Cost. 
--- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROs member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring!  (Wanna join?) 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:45:12 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: Power Pool Question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, John Desmarais wrote: 
 
> btw, not to nitpick, but shouldn't that pool cost 200 points? 
>  
> Power Pool = 100 
> Control = (50 * 3) / 1.5 = 100 
>  
> Pool + Control = 200 
 
Actually, I missed a limitation on that write up.  It should look like 
this: 
 
175	HoiPoi Capsules: Variable Power Pool (100 Point Pool) 
	No Skill Roll (+1), Can Change Powers as 0 Phase Action (+1),  
	Limited SFX: 'Normal' gadgets (-1/2), IIF: HoiPoi Capsules (-1/4),  
	Gestures (must throw) (-1/4) 
 
The Limited SFX means that she can only haul out 'real world' stuff. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        *    
*              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             * 
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:47:23 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: Power Pool Question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote: 
 
> At 12:19 AM 6/14/1998 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
> >Now, this lets me have a mess of gadgets yes... but what about vehicles 
> >and bases?  Do GMs have a hard time accepting items like that in a 'gadget 
> >pool'?  If yes, how would one go about buying a pool of such things?  Bob? 
> >Any suggestions from the TUSV? 
>  
>    Not really, though some of my early notes for TUG lets a gadgeteer have 
> Vehicles as part of a Gadget Pool.  Just treat the vehicle as though it 
> were already OAF (as part of the 5:1 cost ratio), assume most other 
> Limitations are only in regards to bringing the vehicle into being, and go 
> from there. 
 
Umm... Explain, please.  Do you mean I just set aside part of the pool 
(say 50 points) and buy a 250 point vehicle?.   
 
>    BTW, this is what Dave and I have come to call a Walking Department 
> Store Pool, from Steven Today's desription of Shag from the Road Rovers. 
> Shag is, perhaps, the ultimate cartoon Walking Department Store; he's 
> pulled all sorts of things from under his fur, including a laptop computer, 
> a rocket launcher, a sofa and matching loveseat, and (on two separate 
> occasions) teammates. 
 
I like that bit.  Very cartoonish.  There have been a few other characters 
from other gneres with similar powers. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        *    
*              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             * 
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:51:38 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: CHAR: Silk Spectre II 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
"'Silk Specter's' too girly, y'know?   
Plus, I want a better costume, that protects me:  
maybe something leather, with a mask over my face... 
Also, I oughta carry a gun." 
 
SILK SPECTRE II 
(Laurel Jane Juspeczyk) 
 
Val	CHA	Cost	Roll	Notes 
13	STR	3	12-	150kg; 2 1/2d6 
20	DEX	30	13-	OCV: 7 / DCV: 7 
13	CON	6	12-	 
10	BODY	0	11-	 
18	INT	8	13-	PER Roll 13- 
13	EGO	6	12-	ECV: 4 
18	PRE	8	13-	PRE Attack: 3 1/2d6 
18	COM	4	13-	 
6	PD	3		Total: 6 PD 
5	ED	2		Total: 5 ED 
3	SPD	0		Phases: 4, 8, 12 
6	REC	0		 
26	END	0		 
25	STUN	1		 
Total Characteristics Cost: 70 
 
Movement:	Running: 7" / 14" 
		Swimming: 2" / 4" 
 
Cost	Powers & Skills 
Combat Training: 
6	Combat Skill Levels: +2 with Karate 
	Martial Art: Karate 
	Maneuver		OCV	DCV	Damage 
4	Block			+2	+2	Block, Abort 
4	Disarm			-1	+1	23 STR Disarm 
4	Dodge			--	+5	Dodge vs all, Abort 
4	Punch, Snap Kick	+0	+2	4 1/2d6 Strike 
5	Side/Spin Kick		-2	+1	6 1/d6 Strike 
 
Background Skills: 
2	Running: +1" (7" Total) 
3	Acrobatics 13- 
3	Breakfall 13- 
3	Climbing 13- 
3	Conversation 13- 
3	Deduction 13- 
3	High Society 13- 
1	KS: Law 8- 
1	KS: Police Procedure 8- 
3	Persuasion 
1	WF: Pistol 
53	Total Powers & Skills Cost 
123	Total Character Cost 
 
75+	Disadvantages 
	Psychological Limitation:  
10	Uncertainty of purpose (Silk Spectre II was pushed into being a 
	superhero by her mother, Silk Specter I) (C, M) 
10	Hates the Comedian (U, S) 
10	Watched: US Govt (MoPow, NCI) 8- 
18	Experience 
123	Total Disadvantage Points 
 
Designers Notes: 
The second Silk Spectre is the daughter of Sally Jupiter, the first Silk 
Spectre.  Sally pushed her daughter into being a 'superhero' at an early 
age, forcing her to follow in her mother's footsteps.  Laurel never felt 
comfortable with this, and was more than happy to retire in 1977 after the 
passage of the anti-vigilantie Keene Act. 
 
Laurel became an active 'superhero' in 1966 (at the age of 16), with the 
meeting of the Crimebusters.  There, she met Dr. Manhattan, falling in 
love with him and eventually living with him until 1985.  In 1985 
Manhattan left Earth and Laurel moved in with Dan Dreiberg (aka Nite Owl 
II).  She then fell in love with Dreiberg.  Together, the two of them 
broke Rorschach out of prison, at which point Manhattan took her to Mars. 
There, she realized who her father really was (the Comedian) and returned 
to Earth to confront Ozymandias in his Antarctica base.  Afterwards she 
took up with Dan Dreiberg and assumed the identity of Sandra Hollis. 
 
Description: 
Silk Spectre is of average height, with long dark brown hair.  She has an 
attractive figure and wears what looks to be a black one piece swimsuit 
under an almost transparent 'shirt'.  A belt, choker and high heels 
complete the outfit. 
 
Powers Notes: 
Aside from her gymnastic training, natural agility and martial arts 
skills, Silk Spectre II has no real 'powers'.  She is more than a match 
for the average thug (or thugs) but way out of her league when compared to 
people like Nite Owl II or Ozymandias. 
 
Disadvantages Notes: 
Silk Spectre's two main personality points is that she resents being a 
crimefighter (she was forced into it my her mother) and that she *hates* 
the Comedian.  As stated before, she was more than happy to give up the 
crimefighter lifestyle in 1977.  Interestingly enough, she returns to 
being a vigilante (along with Dan Dreiberg) in 1985, and by the end of 
"Watchmen" is ready and willing to return to crimefighting.  Silk 
Spectre's attitude towards the Comedian change as well.  In 1966 she 
thought he was 'pretty cool', in 1973 she she confronted him at banquet 
and tossed her drink in his face.  After realizing her was her father (in 
1985) her attitude seemed to... mellow a bit. 
 
(Silk Spectre II created by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, character sheet 
created by Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        *    
*              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             * 
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:57:48 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: CHAR: Ozymandias 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
"Do you seriously think I'd explain my master plan  
if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting it's outcome? 
I did it thirty-five minutes ago." 
 
OZYMANDIAS 
(Adrian Viedt) 
 
Val	CHA	Cost	Roll	Notes 
25	STR	15	14-	800kg; 5d6 
30	DEX	60	15-	OCV: 10 / DCV: 10 
20	CON	20	13-	 
13	BODY	6	12-	 
33	INT	23	16-	PER Roll 16- 
18	EGO	16	13-	ECV: 6 
23	PRE	13	14-	PRE Attack: 4 1/2d6 
20	COM	5	13-	 
12	PD	7		Total: 12 PD 
10	ED	6		Total: 10 ED 
6	SPD	20		Phases: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 
9	REC	0		 
40	END	0		 
36	STUN	0		 
Total Characteristics Cost: 191 
 
Movement:	Running: 6" / 12" 
		Swimming: 2" / 4" 
 
Cost	Powers & Skills 
Combat Training: 
10	Combat Skill Levels: +2 with HTH Combat 
	Martial Arts:  Kung Fu 
	Maneuver		OCV	DCV	Damage 
4	Block			+2	+2	Block, Abort 
4	Disarm			-1	+1	35 STR Disarm 
4	Dodge			--	+5	Dodge vs All, Abort 
4	Escape			+0	+0	40 STR vs Grabs 
4	Joint Lock/Grab		-1	-1	35 STR Grab two limbs 
5	Kick			-2	+1	9d6 Strike 
3	Legsweep		+2	-1	6d6 Strike; Target Falls 
4	Punch			+0	+2	7d6 Strike 
3	Throw			+0	+1	5d6 +v/5; Target Falls 
4	Tien-hsueh Strike	-1	+1	2d6 NND (1) 
 
100% Brain Useage Powers: 
17	Public Trend Predictions: Clairsentience: Precognition,  
	0 END (+1/2), No Range (-1/2), Precog can only be used to predict 
	general ecomomic and social trends (-1/2), OIF - Immobile: wall 
	of TV screens (-1 1/2) 
3	Talent: Eidetic Memory 
3	Talent: Lightning Calculator 
 
Martial Arts Skills: 
10	Talent: Defense Maneuver (Full) 
3	Acrobatics 15- 
3	Breakfall 15- 
2	KS: Chinese Healing 16- 
2	KS: Chinese Philosophy 16- 
2	KS: Kung Fu 16- 
 
Background Skills: 
100	Base: Karnak 
5	Contact: University 14- 
5	Contact: Wall Street 14- 
10	Follower: Bubastis (50 point base) 
15	Money: Filthy Rich 
3	Bureacratics 14- 
3	Climbing 
3	Contortionist 15- 
3	Conversation 14- 
3	Deduction 16- 
9	Forgery 14- 
9	Inventing 18- 
3	High Society 14- 
3	Lockpicking 15- 
3	Oratory 14- 
3	Paramedic 16- 
3	Persuasion 14- 
3	PS: Business Management (Int) 16- 
3	PS: Doctor (Int) 16- 
3	Security Systems 16- 
3	Sleight of Hand 15- 
7	Survival 13- 
4	TF: Air Vehicles, Ground Vehicles 
3	Scientist 
2	SC: Accounting and Finance 16- 
2	SC: Archaeology 16- 
2	SC: Biochemisty 16- 
2	SC: Chemistry 16- 
2	SC: Genetics 16- 
2	SC: Mathmatics 16- 
2	SC: Medicine 16- 
2	SC: Organic Chemistry 16- 
2	SC: Physics 16- 
2	SC: Psychology 16- 
3	Scholar 
2	KS: Ancient History 16- 
2	KS: Geo-political World 16- 
2	KS: Law 16- 
2	KS: Medicine 16- 
2	KS: Philosophy 16- 
2	KS: Police Procedure 16- 
338	Total Powers & Skills Cost 
529	Total Character Cost 
 
100+	Disadvantages 
10	DNPC: Bubastis the Lynx (Less Pow) 11- 
10	Distinctive Features: Very handsome; perfect physique 
	Psychological Limitation: 
15	Modest and withdrawn (VC) 
15	Scientific Curiosity (C, S) 
15	The end justifies the means (Ozymandias kills 3 million people to 
	'save the world') (U, T) 
10	Public ID: Adrian Viedt 
10	Reputation: Smartest man in the world 11- 
344	Experience 
529	Total Disadvantage Points 
 
Designers Notes: 
Born in 1939 to German parents, Adrian Veidt has always been smart.  His 
early test papers always had perfect scores, until he realized the undue 
attention that brought and carefully became an average student after that. 
His parents died in 1956, when he was 17, leaving him him a sizable 
inheritance.  Ozymandias found that wanted to do *something* with his life 
and decided to recreate the conquest of Alexander the Great.  Giving away 
his fortune, he traveled to Turkey and proceeded to follow in Alexander's 
footsteps.  Continuing onwards, past the point where Alexander turned 
back, Ozymandias entered India and China, learning various forms of 
martial arts.  Returning to the city of Alexandria he had a vision that 
transformed him and gave him a sense of purpose.  He would go forth and 
conquer the evils of mankind.   
 
In 1966 at the ill-fated Crimebusters meeting, Ozymandias realized that 
the world was doomed to destruction.  At that point he began his plan on 
how to save the world.  He built a massive economic empire (Veidt 
Corporation) that produces *everything*.  Along the way he patented the 
'spark hydrant' and used the profits to fund Dimensional Developments. 
His plan, which achieves fruition in chapter 11 of "Watchmen", is central 
to the plot of the series and involves the deaths of Comedian, Moloch and 
over 3 million New York citizens. 
 
Description: 
Ozymandias is perfect.  Perfect physique, prefect hair, perfect looks.  He 
is tall, standing 6' or over, blond and blue eyed.  Ozymandias normally 
dresses in fine, expensive suits.  His 'hero' costume (which he tends to 
wear at Karnack, his Antarctica retreat) consists of a gold body stocking 
, gold bracers, a wide golden belt and a very broad gold collar or mantle. 
Over the body stocking he wears a purple tunic and a long, flowing purple 
cape.   
 
Powers Notes: 
Utilizing techniques taught to him by Tibetan monks, Ozymandias utilizes 
100% of his brain capacity.  This grants him immense information 
processing skills, such as the ability to watch an entire wall of monitor 
screens and determine likely social trends based on the imagery depicted. 
He is also a scientific genius and has developed a number of technological 
marvels far ahead of his time.  Examples include cloning and a 
teleportation device.  He has developed his body to the peak of perfection 
and his enhanced mental prowess has granted him almost unheard of levels 
of ability and reaction time.  He is a master of several martial arts (I 
defaulted on 'kung fu') and quite skilled in hand to hand combat.   
 
Even as extensive as Ozymandias' skill list is, I realize that there are a 
few blanks.  I would guess that adding a number of Area Knowledges and 
languages would make sense, although I'm uncertain what languages he 
actually speaks.  His Science and Knowledge Skill could use some 
additions, as he knows just about *everything*.  Finally, in Chapter 12 of 
"Watchmen" Ozymandias catches a bullet fired from a gun.  Exactly how or 
when he perfected *that* stunt is unknown. 
 
Disadvantages Notes: 
Most of Ozymandias' disads are pretty easy to understand.  He is very well 
know and instantly recognizable the world over.  He is considered (rightly 
so) the smartest man in the world, a designation that bring groupies and 
enemies in abundance.   
 
Mentally, Ozymandias is rather interesting.  His intellect puts him far 
above others making in difficult for him to relate.  This results in 
Ozymandias being modest and withdrawn in his dealings with others, an 
attitude that many see as aloofness.  Ozymandias is also a very firm 
believer in the Gordion Knot theory and understands that at times one must 
make very basic decisions about complex problems.  He spends the better 
part of 20 years formulating a plan to 'save the world', he does so, but 
at the cost of over 3 million people's lives.  And although he admits to 
being responsible for their deaths, he doesn't admit to killing his three 
house servants (even though he poisoned their wine).  On a final note, 
Ozymandias idolized Alexander the Great and his achievements, but states 
"He'd not united all the world, nor built a unity that would survive him." 
Nor, if one thinks about it, has Ozymandias. 
 
(Ozymandias created by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, character sheet 
created by Michael Surbrook) 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        *    
*              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             * 
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:01:53 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: CHAR: Watchmen 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
Well, that's it.  If anyone missed any you can find them on my website 
 
http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html 
 
or I can e-mail them to you directly.  Now that he Watchmen are done, I'm 
not certain what what will be next.  I'm currently tinkering with Mian 
Toris and Shion Claris from "Caravan Kidd" as well as some of the 
characters from "Dragonball Z" (Bulma, Chi Chi and Mr. Satan).  I'm also 
working on Grey and Misty Brown from "Gunsmith Cats", Zakuro from "Ninja 
Scroll" (seems I forgot about her), a re-write of Nur al-Allah, Major 
Motoko Kusanagi ("Ghost in the Shell") and The Joker. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        *    
*              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             * 
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark * 
*************************************************************************** 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:53:30 -0500 (CDT) 
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> 
To: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Ozymandias 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
 
> 10	Follower: Bubastis (50 point base) 
 
> 100+	Disadvantages 
> 10	DNPC: Bubastis the Lynx (Less Pow) 11- 
 
Hmmm - I dunno.  Taking a Follower as a DNPC seems a bit dodgy to me.  If 
they're generally useful, they should be a Follower, if they're more of a 
problem than a help, they're a DNPC. 
 
Ozzy doesn't hesitate much before sacrificing Bubastis late in the series.  
Bubastis was a pet, yes, but I'm not sure he had the ties to her that 
would allow her to be a DNPC.  
 
> Finally, in Chapter 12 of 
> "Watchmen" Ozymandias catches a bullet fired from a gun.  Exactly how or 
> when he perfected *that* stunt is unknown. 
 
IIRC, he wasn't /sure/ he could do it - he says something like 'I always 
wondered if I could do that.'  Based on that scene, though, I'd say he 
almost certainly has some level of Missile Deflection - it could normally 
be at the arrows level, and 'pushed' to the bullet level for that scene 
only... 
 
J  
 
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent.              Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com 
Qui annus est?                                   http://www.io.com/~jeffj 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:22:26 -0700 
From: James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com> 
Reply-To: jimalj@best.com 
To: champ-l@sysabend.org 
Subject: Re: Hard Light Heroes. 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
> That's one of my problems. These things are indestructable (virtually) 
> but if they die. . i guess the feedback would take their controller 
> offline, i.e. blow out his frontal lobe. Hmmm, more of a risk is cool. . . 
 
Well, if they die, there is no reason the duplicate has to go.  It's just there 
isn't the original character, anymore.  Of course, you could set it up so that 
the other character dies, too. 
 
> Oh hell yes. in orbit or something. I was thinking of making it it in a 
> safe zone, 
> , but i might just make it semi-vunerable. . 
 
If the "real" person is perfectly safe, then you don't need to buy the 
duplication:  it is just a special effect.  If the "real" person is almost 
perfectly safe, and is never going to be played (the mind is in the Hologram, 
and will stay there if unplugged, but the body needs to be alive), you could 
take a DNPC:  Incompetent, really low roll (5- for a -5 points?  Not legal, but 
anyway...) for the "real" person, and then take a Susceptability to the DNPC 
being dead (the Hologram quickly discorporates if the DNPC is killed, this 
should be worth only a few points, since it is hoped the DNPC won't die in the 
game). 
 
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher 
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:26:25 -0700 
From: James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com> 
Reply-To: jimalj@best.com 
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: Power Pool Question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
>    I don't think this is really necessary.  From what I gather, the vehicle 
> is basically useless until drawn from the Pool, so everything that would be 
> covered by Shrinking, Shape Shift, and such can be written off as Special 
> Effects (since there's no real benefit that isn't already paid for with the 
> Pool Control Cost. 
 
I would tend to agree, but, as I said, I was trying to be as completely "official" 
as possible.  While I would hope it would be unnecessary to go to the lengths I 
just did, I doubt anyone would argue with its legality.  Whereas some will 
certainly argue with most of the other ways I presented, or with putting the 
vehicle in the VPP. 
 
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher 
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:02:47 -0700 
To: champ-l@sysabend.org 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Power Pool Question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
At 03:52 PM 6/14/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote: 
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
>cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
>Subject: Re: Power Pool Question 
>On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote: 
> 
>> At 12:19 AM 6/14/1998 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>> >Now, this lets me have a mess of gadgets yes... but what about vehicles 
>> >and bases?  Do GMs have a hard time accepting items like that in a 'gadget 
>> >pool'?  If yes, how would one go about buying a pool of such things?  Bob? 
>> >Any suggestions from the TUSV? 
>>  
>>    Not really, though some of my early notes for TUG lets a gadgeteer have 
>> Vehicles as part of a Gadget Pool.  Just treat the vehicle as though it 
>> were already OAF (as part of the 5:1 cost ratio), assume most other 
>> Limitations are only in regards to bringing the vehicle into being, and go 
>> from there. 
> 
>Umm... Explain, please.  Do you mean I just set aside part of the pool 
>(say 50 points) and buy a 250 point vehicle?.   
 
   Precisely -- though, of course, this is subject to the same limitations 
as buying a Vehicle directly (such as 1:1 points if the Vehicle has more 
Total Points than the character that owns it). 
--- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROs member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring!  (Wanna join?) 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 16:07:39 -0500 
To: champ-l@sysabend.org 
From: Robert Harrison <rharriso@iastate.edu> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Rorschach 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
 
>RORSCHACH 
>(Joseph Walter Kovacs) 
> 
>Val	CHA	Cost	Roll	Notes 
>20	STR	10	13-	400kg; 4d6 
This seems a little too high for someone as short, runty, and lightly 
-muscled as Kovacs.  Then again, he did kick a toilet bowl to pieces during 
his jail break.  What's the DEF/BODY for a toilet bowl, anyway? :-) 
 
>	Martial Art: Boxing / Dirty Infighting 
 
What?!?  No "Pinky Breaking Maneuver"? :-) 
 
>100+	Disadvantages 
>10	Distinctive Features: Monotone voice and awful smell (C) 
>15	Hunted: New York Police (MoPow, NCI, LimGeo) 8- 
>20	Normal Characteristic Maxima 
>	Psychological Limitation: 
>20	No compromise, not even in the face of Armageddon (VC, T) 
>15	Violent treatment of criminals (C, S) 
>10	Paranoia 
>15	Reputation: Violent and crazy crimefighter (Ext) 11- 
>15	Secret ID: Joseph Walter Kovacs 
I would add Psych. Lim.: Misogynist to this list. 
 
>Description: 
>Rorschach is short and wiry, with reddish hair and an 'ugly' freckled 
>face.  He is very strong for his sizeand keeps himself in excellent 
>physical shape. 
Yeah, a diet of sugar cubes and uncooked beans will do that for you. :-) 
 
Good job on the write-up.  I would scale back his characteristics and 
combat abilities a bit - my impression from the Watchmen series is that 
Rorschach relies on surprise and PRE attacks more than brute strength or 
combat ability.  Then again, I really haven't researched the issue as much 
as you must have.  I would also give him more PRE for attack purposes only 
when he has his "face" on. 
 
____________________________ 
Robert L. Harrison 
Department of Entomology 
411 Science II 
Iowa State University 
Phone: (515) 294-3963 
Fax: (515) 294-5957 
 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 17:34:31 -0700 
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com> 
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: Clinging and Knockback 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
Mark Lemming wrote: 
>  
> Guy Hoyle wrote: 
> > 
> > Galactic Giant appears behind him and attempts to pluck the Clingful 
> > Clinguist off the side of the building. Galagula has a STR of 150, more 
> > than sufficient to overcome the Clingster's mere Clinging STR of 150. 
> > However, since the Blaxter Building is mere steel-and-concrete, and the 
> > Clingster is pushing to his utmost to resist Galagula, won't a chunk of the 
> > building come with him when the World-Devouring Wonder plucks the Capable 
> > Crusader from the Building That Gets Demolished Every Other Issue? 
 
>  
> I'll have to agree with Rat in that there is nothing inherent in Clinging that 
> says an object that somebody is clinging to gets damaged from them peeling 
> bits off.   
 
I am not sure what your point is, here.  The rules on Clinging state  
explicitly that the surface may break.  Presumably, this will happen if  
the attacker's STR does more BODY than the BODY of the material that  
forms the surface, and chunks of the stuff may start hurtling towards the  
Crowd That Always Gathers Directly Beneath Battling Supers. 
 
As for how much damage this would actually do to the building, well, this  
is a weakness (pun intended) in the rules on Breaking Things.  There  
seems to be no clear demarcation between when one is doing BODY to the  
entire building, vehicle or whatever, and when one is just doing overkill  
on blowing a hole through one wall, bulkhead or whatever.  Yes, GMs can  
rule reasonably on this, but this sort of think tends to produce long  
discussions in game, because frequently the players have a strong stake  
in the precise outcome. 
 
--  
<-------------------------------------------------------> 
Robert A. West		///  "Censorship is tyranny." 
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113   
http://www.erols.com/robtwest 
 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 19:40:47 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Another VPP question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
Since we're on the subject of VPP's: 
 
I've started a new character, Charade, who is a shapeshifter.  She has a 
40 point VPP of 'shapeshifting' powers, which has an overall -1 
limitation (which enables her to run 2 40 point powers at the same time) 
 
Now, the question. 
 
At the beginning of her phase, Charade wants to shift her pool to give 
her flight and claws.  She decides on 40 active (20 real) points of 
flight and 30 active (15 real) points of HKA. 
 
She has an 18- shapeshifting skill roll. 
 
Does she make a single skill roll to shift the pool, or does she make a 
seperate skill roll for the flight and the HKA? 
 
And is the penalty to the skill roll based on the active points or the 
real? 
 
 
Thanks for any help, 
 
 
Todd 
 
--  
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 Todd Hanson                       Minnesota: Land of two seasons: 
 BadTodd@dacmail.net               winter is coming, winter is here. 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:25:44 -0500 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: Another VPP question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
Robert A. West wrote: 
 
> I infer from this description that it requires at least a half-phase 
> action to rearrange the pool, and that the Skill Roll required is called 
> Shapeshifting Skill.  Does Charade actually have the Shapeshifting power? 
> I would assume that she does and that this is reflected as the two 
> Limitations Powers Only Change in Given Circumstance(-1/2) and Restricted 
> Type of Powers Available(-1/2).  Since neither of these apply to the 
> powers derived from the pool, but only to the Control Cost, what is the 
> -1 Limitation that applies to all powers in the pool? 
 
 
Why does this matter for the question asked?   
 
I paid the +1 to be able to change the pool as a zero phase action, 
however it DOES take a half phase due to one of the limitations on the 
power. 
 
Yes, Charade does have the shapeshifting power.   
 
The limitations on the pool are -1/2 side effect and -1/2 must 
shapeshift to appropriate form.  The GM allowed the -1/2 for 'must 
shapeshift' because it forces me to use a half phase if I want to change 
my pool (for the shapeshift), and it restricts the way I can use the 
powers - I can't just fly, I have to take obvious wings, my HKA has to 
be claws or teeth or something similar. 
 
 
 
How long does it take to change a VPP if you don't pay for 'change as 
zero phase' and don't take the limitation 'only change in a lab'?? 
 
 
Todd 
 
 
--  
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 Todd Hanson                       Minnesota: Land of two seasons: 
 BadTodd@dacmail.net               winter is coming, winter is here. 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:51:30 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Ozymandias 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Dr. Nuncheon wrote: 
 
> > 10	Follower: Bubastis (50 point base) 
>  
> > 100+	Disadvantages 
> > 10	DNPC: Bubastis the Lynx (Less Pow) 11- 
>  
> Hmmm - I dunno.  Taking a Follower as a DNPC seems a bit dodgy to me.  If 
> they're generally useful, they should be a Follower, if they're more of a 
> problem than a help, they're a DNPC. 
 
Hmm... possibly.  OTOH I could just by 'protective of Bubastis' for 10 
points too.  It works out the same. 
  
> Ozzy doesn't hesitate much before sacrificing Bubastis late in the series.  
> Bubastis was a pet, yes, but I'm not sure he had the ties to her that 
> would allow her to be a DNPC.  
 
Actually, he states "Bubastis, forgive me..." 
  
> > Finally, in Chapter 12 of 
> > "Watchmen" Ozymandias catches a bullet fired from a gun.  Exactly how or 
> > when he perfected *that* stunt is unknown. 
>  
> IIRC, he wasn't /sure/ he could do it - he says something like 'I always 
> wondered if I could do that.'  Based on that scene, though, I'd say he 
> almost certainly has some level of Missile Deflection - it could normally 
> be at the arrows level, and 'pushed' to the bullet level for that scene 
> only... 
 
Hmmm.... yeah.  Ozy looks like he has a *lot* of powers one never sees. 
The orginal DC Heroes write-up gave him Simulate Death for example. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        *    
*              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             * 
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:09:17 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Rorschach 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
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On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Robert Harrison wrote: 
 
>  
> >RORSCHACH 
> >(Joseph Walter Kovacs) 
> > 
> >Val	CHA	Cost	Roll	Notes 
> >20	STR	10	13-	400kg; 4d6 
 
> This seems a little too high for someone as short, runty, and lightly 
> -muscled as Kovacs.  Then again, he did kick a toilet bowl to pieces during 
> his jail break.  What's the DEF/BODY for a toilet bowl, anyway? :-) 
 
But he's not.  Kovacs is *very* strong for his size.  This is shown 
several times during the series. 
  
> >100+	Disadvantages 
> >10	Distinctive Features: Monotone voice and awful smell (C) 
> >15	Hunted: New York Police (MoPow, NCI, LimGeo) 8- 
> >20	Normal Characteristic Maxima 
> >	Psychological Limitation: 
> >20	No compromise, not even in the face of Armageddon (VC, T) 
> >15	Violent treatment of criminals (C, S) 
> >10	Paranoia 
> >15	Reputation: Violent and crazy crimefighter (Ext) 11- 
> >15	Secret ID: Joseph Walter Kovacs 
 
> I would add Psych. Lim.: Misogynist to this list. 
 
No, he doesn't hate women, he just isn't very comfortable around most 
women.  Note that he's okay with Silk Spectre II though.  He just dosn't 
like her costume. 
  
> >Description: 
> >Rorschach is short and wiry, with reddish hair and an 'ugly' freckled 
> >face.  He is very strong for his size and keeps himself in excellent 
> >physical shape. 
 
> Yeah, a diet of sugar cubes and uncooked beans will do that for you. :-) 
>  
> Good job on the write-up.  I would scale back his characteristics and 
> combat abilities a bit - my impression from the Watchmen series is that 
> Rorschach relies on surprise and PRE attacks more than brute strength or 
> combat ability.  Then again, I really haven't researched the issue as much 
> as you must have.  I would also give him more PRE for attack purposes only 
> when he has his "face" on. 
 
He is listed as an excellent amatuer boxer in one of the backups to the 
main chapter.  He fought gangs with Nite Owl and manages to mess up some 
of the prision inmates pretty good on his own.  He's a strong fighter.  As 
to the increased PRE... possibly. But I think a *lot* of the people in the 
Watchemn universe have a PRE of 8 to 10.  In fact, there seem to be very 
few people with stats above ... oh... 13 in the series. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        *    
*              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             * 
*            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            * 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:10:06 -0400 (EDT) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net> 
cc: champ-l@sysabend.org 
Subject: Re: Power Pool Question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
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On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote: 
 
> At 03:52 PM 6/14/1998 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote: 
> >>    Not really, though some of my early notes for TUG lets a gadgeteer have 
> >> Vehicles as part of a Gadget Pool.  Just treat the vehicle as though it 
> >> were already OAF (as part of the 5:1 cost ratio), assume most other 
> >> Limitations are only in regards to bringing the vehicle into being, and go 
> >> from there. 
> > 
> >Umm... Explain, please.  Do you mean I just set aside part of the pool 
> >(say 50 points) and buy a 250 point vehicle?.   
>  
>    Precisely -- though, of course, this is subject to the same limitations 
> as buying a Vehicle directly (such as 1:1 points if the Vehicle has more 
> Total Points than the character that owns it). 
 
This would work perfectly for the power.  Okay, thanks. 
 
*************************************************************************** 
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *  
*               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                *  
*        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        *    
*              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             * 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:55:10 -0700 
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com> 
To: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> 
CC: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net&> 
        Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Ozymandias 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
Dr. Nuncheon wrote: 
>  
> On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>  
> > 10    Follower: Bubastis (50 point base) 
>  
> > 100+  Disadvantages 
> > 10    DNPC: Bubastis the Lynx (Less Pow) 11- 
>  
> Hmmm - I dunno.  Taking a Follower as a DNPC seems a bit dodgy to me.  If 
> they're generally useful, they should be a Follower, if they're more of a 
> problem than a help, they're a DNPC. 
 
This is not infrequently done, rather than taking a Psych Lim: Protective  
of Follower. 
 
 
>  
> Ozzy doesn't hesitate much before sacrificing Bubastis late in the series. 
> Bubastis was a pet, yes, but I'm not sure he had the ties to her that 
> would allow her to be a DNPC. 
 
Well, that may have been when he traded in the DNPC for a Casual Killer. 
 
;-) 
 
--  
<-------------------------------------------------------> 
Robert A. West		///  "Censorship is tyranny." 
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113   
http://www.erols.com/robtwest 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 21:05:27 -0700 
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com> 
To: champ-l@sysabend.org 
Subject: Re: Another VPP question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
Todd Hanson wrote: 
>  
> Since we're on the subject of VPP's: 
>  
> I've started a new character, Charade, who is a shapeshifter.  She has a 
> 40 point VPP of 'shapeshifting' powers, which has an overall -1 
> limitation (which enables her to run 2 40 point powers at the same time) 
 
I infer from this description that it requires at least a half-phase  
action to rearrange the pool, and that the Skill Roll required is called  
Shapeshifting Skill.  Does Charade actually have the Shapeshifting power?  
I would assume that she does and that this is reflected as the two  
Limitations Powers Only Change in Given Circumstance(-1/2) and Restricted  
Type of Powers Available(-1/2).  Since neither of these apply to the  
powers derived from the pool, but only to the Control Cost, what is the  
-1 Limitation that applies to all powers in the pool? 
 
>  
> Now, the question. 
>  
> At the beginning of her phase, Charade wants to shift her pool to give 
> her flight and claws.  She decides on 40 active (20 real) points of 
> flight and 30 active (15 real) points of HKA. 
 
I would assume that this also requires using her Shapeshift power to  
shift to a different shape -- one having wings and claws. 
 
 
>  
> She has an 18- shapeshifting skill roll. 
>  
> Does she make a single skill roll to shift the pool, or does she make a 
> seperate skill roll for the flight and the HKA? 
 
I would rule one roll, based on the total active points being rearranged,  
which is in this case 70: larger than the pool size.  She will make the  
change on 11-. 
 
>  
> And is the penalty to the skill roll based on the active points or the 
> real? 
 
Active points, per the usual Requires a Skill Roll (HSR p. 111). 
 
--  
<-------------------------------------------------------> 
Robert A. West		///  "Censorship is tyranny." 
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113   
http://www.erols.com/robtwest 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:08:47 -0700 
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com> 
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: Another VPP question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
Todd Hanson wrote: 
>  
> Robert A. West wrote: 
> [inferences and questions snipped] 
>  
> Why does this matter for the question asked? 
 
It doesn't matter, but I was curious. 
 
 
>  
> How long does it take to change a VPP if you don't pay for 'change as 
> zero phase' and don't take the limitation 'only change in a lab'?? 
 
HSR p. 116, under Variable Power Pools: 
 
	A character may buy a Skill in manipulating his own Variable 
	Power Pool; with this Skill the character may change the powers 
	in the Power Pool while in combat.  The Skill costs 3 points, 
	has a roll of 9+INT/5 or less and is +1 per 2 points.  Changing 
	Powers with the Skill takes a Full Phase.  The character must  
	make the Skill Roll at -1 per 10 active points being changed 
	in the Power Pool. 
 
 
	 
 
--  
<-------------------------------------------------------> 
Robert A. West		///  "Censorship is tyranny." 
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113   
http://www.erols.com/robtwest 
 
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:49:59 -0700 
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com> 
To: Champions Listserver <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: Vehicles -- the Vulnerability, *2 BODY, of Hero. 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
 
Stainless Steel Rat wrote: 
 
>  
> As an interesting aside, right now nobody in the world knows how to build a 
> Saturn V rocket.  The design notes were accidentally destroyed, and 
> everyone on the design team is dead, now. 
 
Uh, Rat, do you have a source for this?  This has all the earmarks of an  
Urban Legend.  To wit: 
 
- The 1960's were only 30 years ago, and many of the engineers  
involved were in their 20's and 30's.  If they are all dead, then I would  
suggest that we call in Fox Mulder to ferret out the conspiracy. 
 
- The Saturn V was not built by a single contractor, so there had to be  
multiple copies of most of the specifications.  These almost certainly  
exist in archives somewhere. 
 
I am sure that the design specs are scattered, and that some have become  
lost over time.  Anything stored on magnetic media is almost certainly  
unreadable as a result of thermal randomization, even if you can find a  
7-track 800bpi drive.  Hollerith cards last almost forever, but try  
finding a card reader.  In 1983, I found a treasure trove of irreplacable  
data on the effects of local weather conditions on cocoa production in  
the period 1972 to 1979.  Unfortuntely, it was on punched cards.  We had  
to search long and hard to find a company that still had a high speed  
card reader available, and that was fifteen years ago! 
 
 
--  
<-------------------------------------------------------> 
Robert A. West		///  "Censorship is tyranny." 
Phone W:(215)466-3628; H:(215)348-9113   
http://www.erols.com/robtwest 
 
 
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From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au> 
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Cc: <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Dr. Manhattan 
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:24:06 +1000 
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>  
> > this is the difference between a character and a pc, or even a 
character 
> > and 
> > an npc. For instance, i could suggest that making the doc infinite in 
power 
> > in any rpg would be unfair to any other cosmis types wandering around.  
> > You might suggest that he'd only be present in otherwise low-power 
> > settings,  
> > but the point remains- is this a portrayal of a character simply for 
> > observations sake,  
> > or is knows everything boy actually gonna turn up in a cappaign?  
>  
> Does it matter?  I wrote him up purely for 'observations sake'.  If 
> someone wants to use him, go right ahead.  I have no idea if anyone ever 
> uses any of the character adaptions I post to the list, and I don't care 
> if anyone does.  They are written up for my amusement. 
>  
 
And simmilarly, my question was for my OWN amusement, and 
quite rhetorical. Hence i refer to it as a 'point' and not a 'question. 
I think the differences in structure between a 'depiction' and a  
'game ready character' is one of those differences which many do not  
recognise. You oculd also add the catogory of an npc, as seperate from 
a pc, with reguards to power structures, ect. 
 
 
 
> 
*************************************************************************** 
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion 
*  
> *               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                
*  
> *        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        
*    
> *              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             
* 
> *            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            
* 
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark 
* 
> 
*************************************************************************** 
>  
 
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From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au> 
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Cc: <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Dr. Manhattan 
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:24:06 +1000 
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>  
> > this is the difference between a character and a pc, or even a 
character 
> > and 
> > an npc. For instance, i could suggest that making the doc infinite in 
power 
> > in any rpg would be unfair to any other cosmis types wandering around.  
> > You might suggest that he'd only be present in otherwise low-power 
> > settings,  
> > but the point remains- is this a portrayal of a character simply for 
> > observations sake,  
> > or is knows everything boy actually gonna turn up in a cappaign?  
>  
> Does it matter?  I wrote him up purely for 'observations sake'.  If 
> someone wants to use him, go right ahead.  I have no idea if anyone ever 
> uses any of the character adaptions I post to the list, and I don't care 
> if anyone does.  They are written up for my amusement. 
>  
 
And simmilarly, my question was for my OWN amusement, and 
quite rhetorical. Hence i refer to it as a 'point' and not a 'question. 
I think the differences in structure between a 'depiction' and a  
'game ready character' is one of those differences which many do not  
recognise. You oculd also add the catogory of an npc, as seperate from 
a pc, with reguards to power structures, ect. 
 
 
 
> 
*************************************************************************** 
> * "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion 
*  
> *               Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net                
*  
> *        Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at:        
*    
> *              http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html             
* 
> *            Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT            
* 
> * Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark 
* 
> 
*************************************************************************** 
>  
 
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From: "happyelf" <cgtmljon@pronet.net.au> 
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: Hard Light Heroes. 
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:45:41 +1000 
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>  
> > That's one of my problems. These things are indestructable (virtually) 
> > but if they die. . i guess the feedback would take their controller 
> > offline, i.e. blow out his frontal lobe. Hmmm, more of a risk is cool. 
 . 
>  
> Well, if they die, there is no reason the duplicate has to go.  It's just 
there 
> isn't the original character, anymore.  Of course, you could set it up so 
that 
> the other character dies, too. 
>  
 
Yeah that works out pretty well. The avatar can still be used by another,  
or perhaps just goes loco without it's controlller. Also, it's be 
interesting to see what happend if I did the oft-used 'upload your 
conciousness to the net' idea in combination with this avatar idea. Hence, 
when bob the punk dies, his concoiusness gets uploaded to the mainframe. 
IE- the light dude keeps existing, even though his controller is dead.  
 
> > Oh hell yes. in orbit or something. I was thinking of making it it in a 
> > safe zone, 
> > , but i might just make it semi-vunerable. . 
>  
> If the "real" person is perfectly safe, then you don't need to buy the 
> duplication:  it is just a special effect.  If the "real" person is 
almost 
> perfectly safe, and is never going to be played (the mind is in the 
Hologram, 
> and will stay there if unplugged, but the body needs to be alive), you 
could 
> take a DNPC:  Incompetent, really low roll (5- for a -5 points?  Not 
legal, but 
> anyway...) for the "real" person, and then take a Susceptability to the 
DNPC 
> being dead (the Hologram quickly discorporates if the DNPC is killed, 
this 
> should be worth only a few points, since it is hoped the DNPC won't die 
in the 
> game). 
>  
 
Well not perfectly. I was actually meaning 'during a run', with the punks 
doing legwork and thier normal gigs when the holograms aren't online, but 
relativly 
safe when they are online. Actualy, that sounds more like a multiform.  
 
 
> JAJ, Gaming Philosopher 
> http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html 
>  
 
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Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:24:06 -0700 
From: James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com> 
Reply-To: jimalj@best.com 
To: champ-l@sysabend.org 
Subject: Re: Hard Light Heroes. 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
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> Well not perfectly. I was actually meaning 'during a run', with the punks 
> doing legwork and thier normal gigs when the holograms aren't online, but 
> relativly 
> safe when they are online. Actualy, that sounds more like a multiform. 
 
Oh, that can of worms.  It can be a multiform, but in that case the Superhero 
would need that DNPC or something again for the other character (unless that 
character is perfectly safe, in which case it's just Multiform).  The last time 
this was talked about, it caused an argument because there are two of you but 
that is not indicated by the power.  Sounds like the way to go for your needs, 
though. 
 
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher 
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html 
 
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Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 07:52:06 -0300 (ADT) 
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net> 
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: Another VPP question 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
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On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Robert A. West wrote: 
 
> > How long does it take to change a VPP if you don't pay for 'change as 
> > zero phase' and don't take the limitation 'only change in a lab'?? 
>  
> HSR p. 116, under Variable Power Pools: 
>  
> 	A character may buy a Skill in manipulating his own Variable 
> 	Power Pool; with this Skill the character may change the powers 
> 	in the Power Pool while in combat.  The Skill costs 3 points, 
> 	has a roll of 9+INT/5 or less and is +1 per 2 points.  Changing 
> 	Powers with the Skill takes a Full Phase. 
 
And if you don't buy such a skill, the change takes somewhere 
between a turn and a minute. 
 
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Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 07:57:09 -0300 (ADT) 
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net> 
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Silk Spectre II 
Sender: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org 
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On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
 
> Powers Notes: 
> Aside from her gymnastic training, natural agility and martial arts 
> skills, Silk Spectre II has no real 'powers'.  She is more than a match 
> for the average thug (or thugs) but way out of her league when compared to 
> people like Nite Owl II or Ozymandias. 
 
Eh? Where is it suggested that she's significantly less competent than 
Nite Owl? 
 
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Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 07:59:31 -0300 (ADT) 
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net> 
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Cpt Metropolis 
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On Sat, 13 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
 
> > Well, Western Hero suggests using Distinctive Features to represent 
> > membership in a group which faces discrimination. I only specifically 
> > remember them mentioning visible minorities, granted, but I don't think 
> > it's too much of a stretch to extend it to other groups (who would of 
> > course take it at the "Easily concealable" level). 
>  
> Hmm... possibly.  Persoanlly, I prefer using SID right now.  Once 
> discovered it could become a DF (or a Reputation). 
 
I don't think the nature of the Disadvantage should change based on whether 
they hide it or not. 
 
> > Basically, homosexuality is a disadvantage only in that it influences 
> > society's/people's reactions to the character. Distinctive Features 
> > is the Disadvantage whose mechanics are suited to represent that. 
>  
> Right now.  I thik 5th Edition needs to work on this. 
 
Hmm. You favour separating the "Strong/Extreme Reactions" part out from 
Distinctive Features, then? 
 
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From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
To: "champ-l@sysabend.org" <champ-l@sysabend.org&> 
        "Todd Hanson" <badtodd@dacmail.net> 
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 98 13:12:48  
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: Another VPP question 
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On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 19:40:47 -0500, Todd Hanson wrote: 
 
>Since we're on the subject of VPP's: 
> 
>I've started a new character, Charade, who is a shapeshifter.  She has a 
>40 point VPP of 'shapeshifting' powers, which has an overall -1 
>limitation (which enables her to run 2 40 point powers at the same time) 
> 
>Now, the question. 
> 
>At the beginning of her phase, Charade wants to shift her pool to give 
>her flight and claws.  She decides on 40 active (20 real) points of 
>flight and 30 active (15 real) points of HKA. 
> 
>She has an 18- shapeshifting skill roll. 
> 
>Does she make a single skill roll to shift the pool, or does she make a 
>seperate skill roll for the flight and the HKA? 
 
This depends upon the construction of the pool! For a basic pool, you 
just need a roll to change. If the powers within the pool have the RSR 
limitation, then they too Require a Skill Roll. 
 
>And is the penalty to the skill roll based on the active points or the 
>real? 
 
Active. 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
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From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
To: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com&> 
        "Michael Surbrook" <susano@access.digex.net> 
Cc: "Champions Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 98 13:13:53  
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Ozymandias 
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On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:53:30 -0500 (CDT), Dr. Nuncheon wrote: 
 
>On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
> 
>> 10	Follower: Bubastis (50 point base) 
> 
>> 100+	Disadvantages 
>> 10	DNPC: Bubastis the Lynx (Less Pow) 11- 
> 
>Hmmm - I dunno.  Taking a Follower as a DNPC seems a bit dodgy to me.  If 
>they're generally useful, they should be a Follower, if they're more of a 
>problem than a help, they're a DNPC. 
 
Actually, they're mutually exclusive. 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
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From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
To: "Michael Surbrook" <susano@access.digex.net> 
Cc: "Champions Mailing List" <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 98 13:14:59  
Reply-To: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Ozymandias 
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On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:51:30 -0400 (EDT), Michael Surbrook wrote: 
 
>On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Dr. Nuncheon wrote: 
> 
>> > 10	Follower: Bubastis (50 point base) 
>>  
>> > 100+	Disadvantages 
>> > 10	DNPC: Bubastis the Lynx (Less Pow) 11- 
>>  
>> Hmmm - I dunno.  Taking a Follower as a DNPC seems a bit dodgy to me.  If 
>> they're generally useful, they should be a Follower, if they're more of a 
>> problem than a help, they're a DNPC. 
> 
>Hmm... possibly.  OTOH I could just by 'protective of Bubastis' for 10 
>points too.  It works out the same. 
 
Surely not - that's subsumed in the Follower or DNPC cost. 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
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From: Dave Mattingly <dmattingly@platsoft.com> 
To: champ-l@sysabend.org 
Subject: Re: Hard Light Heroes 
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 06:29:15 -0700 
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