Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 116
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 1998 5:37 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #116
champ-l-digest Thursday, December 31 1998 Volume 01 : Number 116
In this issue:
Re: DCV Skill Levels (was Char: Anita Carstairs)
Re: Skill Levels and DEX
Continuing Charges
Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
Re: Continuing Charges
Re: Skill Levels and DEX
Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
Re: Need info on REALLY OLD Hero products
Re: Continuing Charges
Re: Continuing Charges
Re: Need info on REALLY OLD Hero products
Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
Re: Mental Defense Question
Re: Continuing Charges
Re: Need info on REALLY OLD Hero products
Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Precise Measurements
Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Precise Measurements
Re: Continuing Charges
Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Precise Measurements
Re: CHAR: Anita Carstairs (was Stupid Precog Tricks)
Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
Re: Continuing Charges
Re: Skill Levels and DEX
Re: Continuing Charges
Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
Conversion to Hero Question (Again :)
Re: CHAR: Anita Carstairs (was Stupid Precog Tricks)
Re: CSL vs DCV (was CHAR: Anita Carstairs)
OT: Predictions for 1999
Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 30 Dec 1998 22:32:25 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: DCV Skill Levels (was Char: Anita Carstairs)
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"JT" == Jesse Thomas <haerandir@hotmail.com> writes:
JT> So, Leah is correct. +2 DCV that applies all the time in all
JT> situations costs 10 pts. If (for instance) she bought +2 DCV only in
JT> H-to-H, then you could make a good case for it being H-to-H levels with
JT> a -1 limitation, ultimately costing 5 pts.
Except that +2 DCV in hand to hand is a pair of 3-point levels. Actually,
you are better off that way anyway, since those same two levels could be
used for OCV or +1DC (in heroic campaigns).
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
GPG Key: same as my PGP 5 (DH) key \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
------------------------------
Date: 30 Dec 1998 22:28:57 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels and DEX
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"WS" == Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com> writes:
WS> Which is right where you make your mistake, since I'm _not_ assuming
WS> people buying the limited DEX would buy the speed,
I am assuming that most characters buy up their Speed from base, at least a
bit. How many Speed 2 characters do you see? Not many, I would imagine.
If a character has spent any points whatsoever on Speed, No Figured
Characteristics on DEX saves you nothing, which is why I chose to ignore it
in my calculations.
As for "Only for CV", as a GM I would tell you to stop being a munchkin and
buy the skill levels, because its only purpose is "DEX is better than
levels". Even if I did allow it, I can *still* get a better OCV out of
skill levels than you can out of crocked DEX.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
GPG Key: same as my PGP 5 (DH) key \ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 22:41:40 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Continuing Charges
If I want to buy an instant power (e.g., an Energy Blast) with
continuing charges, need I also buy the advantage "Continuous"?
------------------------------
Date: 30 Dec 1998 23:13:10 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
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"F" == Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> writes:
F> Whatever happened to "HERO can simulate virtually anything"?
The very ambiguity you are looking to 'fix' is exactly what makes it
possible to do virtually anything with Hero. So I guess that it went away
with your request to legislate every nit-picky detail.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
GPG Key: same as my PGP 5 (DH) key \
------------------------------
Date: 30 Dec 1998 23:17:57 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
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"F" == Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> writes:
F> Yes, but that still doesn't change the point. If Tank is made of steel,
F> and exposed to enough light that he is flashed right through his 8cm
F> armor, then he is vaporized anyway.
Says who? Who said Flash to the sight group must be visible light?
Besides, exposure to high-energy EM radiation does not fry you, it turns
you into a superhero.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:10:39 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Continuing Charges
>If I want to buy an instant power (e.g., an Energy Blast) with
>continuing charges, need I also buy the advantage "Continuous"?
Yup. But you don't have to buy Uncontrolled.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:08:44 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Skill Levels and DEX
>As for "Only for CV", as a GM I would tell you to stop being a munchkin and
>buy the skill levels, because its only purpose is "DEX is better than
>levels". Even if I did allow it, I can *still* get a better OCV out of
>skill levels than you can out of crocked DEX.
The first half of this is a circular argument; the situation is munchkiny
because the cost of levels relative to DEX is broken; if it was right, it'd
be a nonissue. And you can't get a better overall CV however. Thus it's
still generally more attractive, and gets progressively more so the larger a
level you're buying. Even at 3 point levels, you're getting at best two CV
for 6 points, where the DEX will be doing the same. 5 or 8 point levels are
complete losers.
As to the SPD thing...even if they are buying it, so what? Your guy with
the levels would simply be buying it seperately at the same cost, so it's
not relevant to the discussion.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:00:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Bryant Durrell <durrell@innocence.com>
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
Filksinger writes:
> Yes, but that still doesn't change the point. If Tank is made of steel, and
> exposed to enough light that he is flashed right through his 8cm armor, then
> he is vaporized anyway. Furthermore, to simulate that level of Flash
> Defense, you would need Flash Defense that would protect you from a Flash
> Attack that would blind a normal for at least a couple of hundred years
> (since his entire head vaporized).
>
> So, what do I buy, Flash Defense 3,000,000? Seems rather expensive.
In any game I run, a Flash that powerful will be linked to an EB,
for fairly obvious reasons.
- --
Bryant Durrell [] durrell@innocence.com [] http://www.innocence.com/~durrell
[----------------------------------------------------------------------------]
"The people I distrust most are those who want to improve our lives
but have only one course of action." -- Frank Herbert
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 22:53:08 -0600
From: "Logan D." <logand@cyberramp.net>
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
Christ, I'm sick of this thread.
##PLONK##
- -Logan
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable
game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective
of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex
version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite
stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who
_smiles all the time_."
-Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett
_Good Omens_
*i.e., everybody.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
web page: http://www.cyberramp.net/~logand/
- -----Original Message-----
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>"F" == Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> writes:
>
>F> Whatever happened to "HERO can simulate virtually anything"?
>
>The very ambiguity you are looking to 'fix' is exactly what makes it
>possible to do virtually anything with Hero. So I guess that it went away
>with your request to legislate every nit-picky detail.
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: GnuPG v0.9.0 (GNU/Linux)
>Comment: For info see www.gnupg.org
>
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>JHbbSvl/p5OC3ZxkEtQ44ds=
>=XVrM
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>--
>Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
>PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
>GPG Key: same as my PGP 5 (DH) key \
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 23:54:46 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: Need info on REALLY OLD Hero products
> From: griffin@txdirect.net (Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin)
>>Below is a partial list of pre-4th edition Hero
>> products. Note the ??? entries; these are
>> products I can't identify. I assume they've
>> been out of print for years. I know my
>> chances of finding them are about nil. Right
>> now, I just want to know what they *are*.
Luckily, I have a lot of these, and if you're interested in buying some
of them, contact me off list.....
>>(x) HER006 Enemies II (source book)
This was the second ENEMIES book and the last one to use the original
layout (not to mention Mark Williams artwork)--have this.
>>(x) HER008 Champions II (rules source
>> book)
Actually, a pretty decent product ala' THE HERO SYSTEM ALMANAC featuring
various and sundry rules additions....also features Mark Williams
artwork.....have this.
>>(x) HER009 Deathstroke (adventure)
An adventure module using the super-team Deathstroke, including Mark
Williams artwork...don't have this....
>>(x) HER031 Wrath of the Seven Horsemen
>> (adventure)
An adventure for higher powered heroes featuring characters based on the
Four Horsemen....to be honest, not particularly impressive....have this.
>>( ) HER032 Wings of the Valkyrie
>> (adventure)
(*Grumbles at losing the e-bay bidding war for this one) The infamous
Nazi-themed adventure that Hero pulled after protests....super-powered
holocaustr survivors go back in time to assasinate Hitler, and the
heroes have to decide if they should stop them.....supposedly a
well-written module.
>>(x) HER034 Target: Hero (adventure)
Absolutely awful, DEMON-themed adventure with some of the worst artwork
in the Hero Games canon.....have this.
>>(x) HER035 Robot Gladiators (mecha
>> villain book)
Fairly decent sourcebook/adventure depicting a mecha 'tournament' and
several mechs....only supplement for ROBOT WARRIORS....have this.
>>( ) HER036 Enemies: Villainy Unbound
In my opinion one of the best Villian sourcebooks, with a large variety
of villians with a role playing/characterization emphasis....have this.
>>(x) HER038 V.O.I.C.E. of Doom
>> (adventure) - 2 copies
An adventure introducing a powerful super-villian team and the hero team
they're annihilating....also decent...have this.
>>( ) HER039 Red Doom (adventure)
Actually a sourcebook of Soviet super-villians broken into three
teams....some interesting ideas...have this.
>>(x) HER040 Scourge From the Deep
>> (adventure)
An AWFUL adventure wrapped around some great rules for underwater
combat....the only Hero Games cover to feature a character from the
STRIKE FORCE sourcebook....have this
>>(x) HER042 Strike Force
A sourcebook featuring Aaron Allston's Champions campaign, loaded with
lots of GMing information....I still drag this out every once in a
while...have this.
>>(x) HER044 To Serve and Protect
>> (adventure)
Interesting super-team adventure featuring a super-hero group corrupted
by an Aztec goddess....have this
>>(x) HER046 CLOWN (source book)
Rob Bell's whimsical super-villian group....some interesting
characters...have this.
>>(x) HER047 Neutral Ground (adventure)
A sourcebook on 'Sanctuary,' a place for supers to unwind.
>>(x) HER048 Atlas Unleashed (adventure)
A standard super-adventure module....
>>(x) HER050 Star Hero (space genre book)
This is the space opera-style science fiction sourcebook...to the best
of my knowledge, no supplements were made for this.
>>At some point in the dim past I heard rumors
>> of, or saw listings for, these three titles:
>>The Guardians
The Guardians were the super-heroes who appeared in the earliest
versions of CHAMPIONS--The Marksman, Giant, Gargoyle, The Rose and
Flare....apparently George MacDonald was planning on writing a
sourcebook ala' STRIKE FORCE, but nothing came of it....
>>Shadow of the Vampire (or maybe
>> S.H.A.D.O.W. of the Vampire, a DI
>> adventure?)
Could have been an earlier working title for V.O.I.C.E. of Doom.
>>Terror On Skywatch One
Ditto for ATLAS UNBOUND
"Nothing says Christmas like a green Grinch butt."
--THAT 70's SHOW
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 00:57:57 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Continuing Charges
At 01:10 PM 12/30/98 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>If I want to buy an instant power (e.g., an Energy Blast) with
>>continuing charges, need I also buy the advantage "Continuous"?
>
>Yup. But you don't have to buy Uncontrolled.
On what authority do you base this? I can't find it.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:21:34 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Continuing Charges
>At 01:10 PM 12/30/98 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>>If I want to buy an instant power (e.g., an Energy Blast) with
>>>continuing charges, need I also buy the advantage "Continuous"?
>>
>>Yup. But you don't have to buy Uncontrolled.
>
>On what authority do you base this? I can't find it.
On the way Uncontrolled, Continuous, and Continuous charges are defined.
Continuous makes a power that's instant contstant; Continuous charges run a
constant power until the charge runs out. QED. Otherwise they'd have
mentioned Uncontrolled under the Continuing charges discussion, where they
specifically mention needing Continuous for instant powers. Note that the
language about deactivating a Continuing Charge is also essentially the same
as the one under Uncontrolled...if Uncontrolled was needed, there'd be no
need to make a special note under continuing charges.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 02:01:46 -0700
From: Curtis A Gibson <mhoram@relia.net>
Subject: Re: Need info on REALLY OLD Hero products
thomas deja wrote:
>
> > From: griffin@txdirect.net (Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin)
> >>Below is a partial list of pre-4th edition Hero
> >> products. Note the ??? entries; these are
> >> products I can't identify. I assume they've
> >> been out of print for years. I know my
> >> chances of finding them are about nil. Right
> >> now, I just want to know what they *are*.
>
> >>( ) HER032 Wings of the Valkyrie
> >> (adventure)
>
> (*Grumbles at losing the e-bay bidding war for this one) The infamous
> Nazi-themed adventure that Hero pulled after protests....super-powered
> holocaustr survivors go back in time to assasinate Hitler, and the
> heroes have to decide if they should stop them.....supposedly a
> well-written module.
It is fairly well written. Part of my learning how to run mysteries is
in this module. The set up is faboulous. I've run it very successully in
my campaign. As I understand the Original Alternate timeline was
actually better than our Earth, and ICE made an editorial descision to
make the alternate earth icky, so that the heroes would be motivated to
stop the assassination. The alternate timeline as presented was a pretty
good one, as was.
>
> The Guardians were the super-heroes who appeared in the earliest
> versions of CHAMPIONS--The Marksman, Giant, Gargoyle, The Rose and
> Flare....apparently George MacDonald was planning on writing a
> sourcebook ala' STRIKE FORCE, but nothing came of it....
The write ups for the characters appeared in the back of the Guardians
Comic book. All but Gargoyle.
>
> >>Shadow of the Vampire (or maybe
> >> S.H.A.D.O.W. of the Vampire, a DI
> >> adventure?)
>
SHADOW over scotland. An adventure for Espionage- the forerunner to
Danger Int.
- --
What is called glory, I think, is mostly the relief you feel after
you've fought and lived through battle without getting maimed.
- -Harry Turtledove Krispos Rising
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 06:26:13 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
At 10:53 PM 12/30/98 -0600, Logan D. wrote:
>Christ, I'm sick of this thread.
I don't think He's even on the HML, let alone moderating it.
Of course, you're always free to talk to Him directly whenever you want
to.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:38:49 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Mental Defense Question
At 05:52 PM 12/30/98 -0800, Steven J. Owens wrote:
> However, since it's kosher to have agents and the like take disad
>like "Psych lim: fanatically loyal" and get points for it, then by the
>same logic it's okay for Headmaster's thugs to take Mental Def with a
>limitation not usable vs. headmaster.
Since this does seem to be the consensus, I do think I'll be going with
it (and with the nifty "disguised mental signature" idea to go with it).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 06:16:04 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Continuing Charges
At 10:41 PM 12/30/98 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>If I want to buy an instant power (e.g., an Energy Blast) with
>continuing charges, need I also buy the advantage "Continuous"?
While the HSR doesn't say it explicitly, there's a strong indication
that you don't, in the last sentence of the first paragraph with the header
"Continuing charges" on p.103 of the HSR/BBB:
"This can only be used with Powers that have Charges, (Use [sic] the
Power Advantage Continuous if the Power does not have Charges.) [sic]"
Never mind the two punctuation errors; the strong implication is that
this makes Continuous unnecessary even if the Power is Instant.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:05:01 EST
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Subject: Re: Need info on REALLY OLD Hero products
>At some point in the dim past I heard rumors of, or saw listings for,
these
>three titles:
>
>The Guardians
>Shadow of the Vampire (or maybe S.H.A.D.O.W. of the Vampire, a DI
>adventure?)
>Terror On Skywatch One
Can't help you with numbers one and three, but I have a Danger
International adventure titled S.H.A.D.O.W. Over Scotland (#28) where the
villians were using fake vampires and ghosts to keep the locals away from
the base.
Leah
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 08:20:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Precise Measurements
> Eidetic Memory
> "any subject that the character takes time to memorize will
> be remembered exactly, down to the smallest detail."
Time is relative to Roboti-X, since he's probably got
a 750MHz chip for a brain, and a 500Mhz data bus to
his eye-spots. Probably by definition everything he
looks at he has taken time to study in detail, simply
because he does everything (mentally) so much faster.
Here we take the timing rules from EM and logically tie it
to the SFX of his high INT, and voila, it works for me.
==
Elliott aka The Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:59:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Precise Measurements
On Thu, 31 Dec 1998, Ell Egyptoid wrote:
> > Eidetic Memory
> > "any subject that the character takes time to memorize will
> > be remembered exactly, down to the smallest detail."
>
> Time is relative to Roboti-X, since he's probably got
<snip>
> because he does everything (mentally) so much faster.
>
> Here we take the timing rules from EM and logically tie it
> to the SFX of his high INT, and voila, it works for me.
> ==
You are modifying a rule based on character concept without
spending any more points.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:39:44 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Continuing Charges
At 04:21 PM 12/30/98 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>At 01:10 PM 12/30/98 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>>>If I want to buy an instant power (e.g., an Energy Blast) with
>>>>continuing charges, need I also buy the advantage "Continuous"?
>>>
>>>Yup. But you don't have to buy Uncontrolled.
>>
>>On what authority do you base this? I can't find it.
>
>On the way Uncontrolled, Continuous, and Continuous charges are defined.
>Continuous makes a power that's instant contstant; Continuous charges run a
>constant power until the charge runs out. QED. Otherwise they'd have
>mentioned Uncontrolled under the Continuing charges discussion, where they
>specifically mention needing Continuous for instant powers. Note that the
>language about deactivating a Continuing Charge is also essentially the same
>as the one under Uncontrolled...if Uncontrolled was needed, there'd be no
>need to make a special note under continuing charges.
I'm sorry, I should have been more precise. I meant, on what do you base
the first assertion, that in order to buy continuing charges for an instant
power, you need to buy the Continuous advantage? It doesn't say that, nor
does it say in HSR (that I can find) that continuing charges run a constant
power only, and not an instant one (although of course, it seems logical,
which
is why I asked in the first place).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:24:34 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Precise Measurements
>Time is relative to Roboti-X, since he's probably got
>a 750MHz chip for a brain, and a 500Mhz data bus to
>his eye-spots.
This isn't entirely germaine, but do you realize that that's agonizingly
slow compaired to the human brain? We process information incredibly fast,
it's just that we process so much of it at a given moment that we seem
slower than the machine. For a machine to actually be sentient and have all
of the advantages of the non-sentient machine would require that it have
superior processing power than the brain, not merely that it be a machine.
Which is not to say that we will never build such a machine.
Sorry, I was just discussing this topic a little while ago with someone
else, so it just slipped out (-;
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 98 19:34:03
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Anita Carstairs (was Stupid Precog Tricks)
On Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:44:37 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 06:43 PM 12/30/98, qts wrote:
>>Err, this is what I'm saying! Except you seem to have understood the
>>reverse. You take a 5 pt CSL, then to make it DCV only, you apply a
>>Limitation, as per the HSR.
>
> What edition are you reading? Mine says that +1 to DCV *is* a 5-point
>Combat Skill Level (3rd paragraph after the first example under CSL).
4th Ed, 2nd col, last para.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:16:01 -0800
From: "David Nasset, Sr." <davidn@edmark.com>
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
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>"F" == Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> writes:
>
>F> Whatever happened to "HERO can simulate virtually anything"?
>
>The very ambiguity you are looking to 'fix' is exactly what makes it
>possible to do virtually anything with Hero. So I guess that it went away
>with your request to legislate every nit-picky detail.
Ah. So when two people read the description of a Power, Talent, or Skill,
and can't agree on what it gives the character, that is a good thing.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:24:25 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
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>"F" == Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> writes:
>
>F> Yes, but that still doesn't change the point. If Tank is made of steel,
>F> and exposed to enough light that he is flashed right through his 8cm
>F> armor, then he is vaporized anyway.
>
>Says who? Who said Flash to the sight group must be visible light?
No one at all. However, if it _is_ visible light, this character should be
able to recover immediately from a Flash of even ridiculous intensity.
If your GM is the sort to say, "OK, buy this much, and we'll call it
absolute immunity. If you ever get hit by a bigger flash, you will be
immune," then you have no problem. If you have a GM who promises that he
will never use more than X amount of Flash, and purchasing total immunity
isn't excessively expensive, then you have no problem.
However, some GMs won't do either one, and the amount of Flash Defense that
could be needed to simulate this is ludicrous.
>Besides, exposure to high-energy EM radiation does not fry you, it turns
>you into a superhero.
:P
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: 31 Dec 1998 15:08:22 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Continuing Charges
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"SN" == Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> writes:
SN> I'm sorry, I should have been more precise. I meant, on what do you
SN> base the first assertion, that in order to buy continuing charges for
SN> an instant power, you need to buy the Continuous advantage?
The ruling from Hero Games that is reprinted in the FAQ.
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------------------------------
Date: 31 Dec 1998 15:05:52 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels and DEX
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"WS" == Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com> writes:
WS> The first half of this is a circular argument; the situation is
WS> munchkiny because the cost of levels relative to DEX is broken; if it
WS> was right, it'd be a nonissue.
I disagree.
WS> And you can't get a better overall CV however.
I never said otherwise. I've always stated that I can get a better OCV
through skill levels than you can through DEX. Depth vs. breadth.
WS> Thus it's still generally more attractive, and gets progressively more
WS> so the larger a level you're buying. Even at 3 point levels, you're
WS> getting at best two CV for 6 points, where the DEX will be doing the
WS> same.
Not the same. You get +1 OCV and +1 DCV, whereas I get +2 OCV. Depth
vs. breadth. Neither is inherently better than the other.
WS> 5 or 8 point levels are complete losers.
5-point levels are still a good deal unless you insist on crocking DEX (and
your GM lets you get away with it), and 8-point levels are great if your
DEX exceeds a characteristic maximum.
WS> As to the SPD thing...even if they are buying it, so what? Your guy with
WS> the levels would simply be buying it seperately at the same cost, so it's
WS> not relevant to the discussion.
Which is why I ignored it in my math.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:02:55 -0500
From: "Geoff Depew" <mephron@idt.net>
Subject: Re: Continuing Charges
- -----Original Message-----
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Thursday, December 31, 1998 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: Continuing Charges
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>"SN" == Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> writes:
>
>SN> I'm sorry, I should have been more precise. I meant, on what do you
>SN> base the first assertion, that in order to buy continuing charges for
>SN> an instant power, you need to buy the Continuous advantage?
>
>The ruling from Hero Games that is reprinted in the FAQ.
Okay. Fine. I've asked before, and not gotten a response. I'll ask again.
WHERE IS THE FAQ? I've looked at the Hero Games site, and at a bunch of
Hero sites. And no FAQ is to be seen.
Tell me where it is.
------------------------------
Date: 31 Dec 1998 15:59:01 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
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"DN" == David Nasset, <davidn@edmark.com> writes:
DN> Ah. So when two people read the description of a Power, Talent, or Skill,
DN> and can't agree on what it gives the character, that is a good thing.
Yes, it is. Different styles of campaigns have different requirements.
Eidetic Memory will work one way in an over-the-top supers game, and a
different way in a realistic 'Rainbow Six' tactical espionage game.
With a single 200-page book (the HSR) I can do almost anything. There is
no other game system out there that even comes close to being able to say
that. GURPS requires at least one additional book for any given style of
campaign. Fuzion is more or less the same way, one book for one style,
another book for a different style, etc. There are a few other half-assed
attempts at 'generic' game systems but none approach the versatility of
Hero.
Ultimately, it is the GM who decides what SFX benefits and restrictions are
appropriate for any skill or talent or power in his game. That is the
source of Hero's flexability. When you legislate every detail you take
that ability away from the GM and you lock the system into a particular
style of play.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
GPG Key: same as my PGP 5 (DH) key \ head.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:08:37 -0500
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
Subject: Conversion to Hero Question (Again :)
Has anyone heard of the game Dark Conspiracy by GDW? If so, has anyone
tried converting any of it to Hero?
Lisa Hartjes
beren@unforgettable.com
http://roswell.fortunecity.com/daniken/79
ICQ: Berengiere (9062561)
"It is actions that make the hero, not thoughts."
------------------------------
Date: 31 Dec 1998 15:38:37 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Anita Carstairs (was Stupid Precog Tricks)
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"q" == qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> writes:
q> 4th Ed, 2nd col, last para.
q> qts
"The 5-point Combat Skill Level can serve as a +1 DCV against all attacks
if bought as such. Finally, the 5-point Combat Skill Level is the
smallest Combat Skill Level that can be bought with Limitations."
Those are two distinct sentences, q. DCV-only is *NOT* a limitation on the
5-point CSL.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:40:41 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CSL vs DCV (was CHAR: Anita Carstairs)
At 07:34 PM 12/31/98, qts wrote:
>On Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:44:37 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>>At 06:43 PM 12/30/98, qts wrote:
>>>Err, this is what I'm saying! Except you seem to have understood the
>>>reverse. You take a 5 pt CSL, then to make it DCV only, you apply a
>>>Limitation, as per the HSR.
>>
>> What edition are you reading? Mine says that +1 to DCV *is* a 5-point
>>Combat Skill Level (3rd paragraph after the first example under CSL).
>
>4th Ed, 2nd col, last para.
What page?
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:40:13 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: OT: Predictions for 1999
About a year ago, I posted my predictions for 1998 to the Hero Mailing
List. I do recall that there were ten altogether, of which five were
related to Hero gaming and five were related to the world at large, though
multiple data corruptions have caused me to lose the actual list.
(Of the two that I can remember, one was right and the other was wrong.
If anyone saved that list and is inclined to share it with the rest of us,
along with calls as to how correct I was or wasn't, please go right ahead.)
Anyway, here are my predictions for 1999:
Hero Gaming:
1. Hero Games will be sued for something (probably a supposed copyright
or other creative rights infringement), but the case will be dismissed,
settled out of court to everyone's satisfaction, or judged against but with
a paltry monetary penalty that doesn't even cover the paintiff's legal
costs. The publicity from the suit will help sales enough to more than
make up for Hero Games' expenses.
2. Another company (possibly Atlas Games, probably someone else) will
at least announce a line of licensed products using the Hero System.
3. One of the more significant individuals involved with writing or
producing Hero Games products will be hospitalized for an extended period.
All will work out for the best, however.
4. There will be serious talks about having Hero Games and related
products distributed to Waldenbooks and other major book chains.
5. Hero Games will be featured in an article on a newsmagazine on a
major TV network (Dateline, 20/20, 60 Minutes, etc.).
The World At Large:
6. There will be a serious (Richter 5.5+) earthquake in an area that
doesn't normally get earthquakes.
7. One of the six commercial broadcast networks in the US (ABC, CBS,
Fox, NBC, UPN, or The WB) will feature, or at least announce, a series on
which one of the regular characters is a clergyman who is Christian, but
not Catholic, Episcoplian (Anglican), or non-denominational (in other
words, Methodist, Baptist, Assembly of God, or some such), marking the
first such character on TV.
8. There will be a mechanical disaster in NASA's space shuttle program,
but without fatality (though serious injury is another question).
9. The "Y2K bug" will start causing blackouts, utility failures,
financial miscalculations, and other problems well before the end of the
year, though nothing that causes widespread troubles other than panic.
10. After a Senate trial that lasts longer than anyone now expects,
President Clinton will be left in office, but will lose many rights and
priveleges that most Presidents are allowed, including his pension and the
right to hold elected office after leaving.
As a disclaimer, I make no claims to psychic powers, inside information,
particularly good sense regarding coming events, or anything similar. And,
as with last year's predictions, if anyone wants to keep this list and echo
it back on January 1, 2000 (or when everyone's computer recovers from the
Y2K bug, whichever comes first), that'd be perfectly fine.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:08:08 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements
At 03:59 PM 12/31/1998 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>DN> Ah. So when two people read the description of a Power, Talent, or Skill,
>DN> and can't agree on what it gives the character, that is a good thing.
>
>Yes, it is. Different styles of campaigns have different requirements.
>Eidetic Memory will work one way in an over-the-top supers game, and a
>different way in a realistic 'Rainbow Six' tactical espionage game.
If two people read the description of Eidetic Memory and agree that it will
work one way in an over-the-top supers game, and a different way in a
realistic 'Rainbow Six' tactical espionage game, *that's* a good thing.
If two people read the description and can't agree on what it says, that's
*not* a good thing. The GM is the final artiber, yes, but the less often
the GM is called upon to legislate a house ruling on some unclear bit, the
better the GM and players will probably like the system.
Damon
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #116
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