Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 118

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 1999 10:35 PM 
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #118 
 
 
champ-l-digest        Saturday, January 2 1999        Volume 01 : Number 118 
 
 
 
In this issue: 
 
    Re: Other Mailing Lists 
    Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements 
    Re: Other Mailing Lists 
    Creation Workshop 
    Re: New Year's Predictions 
    Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN 
    Seattle/Everett Area? 
    Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN 
    GENKI: Final Version 
    Re: New Year's Predictions 
    Re: Conversion to Hero Question (Again :) 
    Re: Other Mailing Lists 
    Re: CSL vs DCV (was CHAR: Anita Carstairs) 
    Re: New Year's Predictions (1998) 
    Re: New Year's Predictions (1998) 
    Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN 
    Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN 
    Hero Creator Patches? 
    Y2k bug (from predictions) 
    Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
    Re: Y2k bug [VCR Fun] 
    Re: Hero Creator Patches? 
    Re: Hero Creator Patches? 
    Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 15:45:49 -0800 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
Subject: Re: Other Mailing Lists 
 
>     I don't want anyone to think that I'm putting down supers games, but 
>they're just not my cuppa. Therefore... 
> 
>     Can anyone direct me to (an)other list(s) that deal(s) specifically with 
>the fantasy and/or hard SF implementation of the HSR? 
 
Hey post some of your ideers and see what spawns from it, we talk about 
Champs mostly cause people bring UP champs stuff mostly, I prefer fantasy 
myself. 
 
- ---------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
- ----------------------------------------------------------- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 98 19:47:18  
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements 
 
On Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:38:59 -0800, Filksinger wrote: 
 
>From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
> 
> 
>>On Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:23:21 -0800, Filksinger wrote: 
><snip> 
> 
>>If the Flash is sufficiently powerful and of the correct SFX, then 
>>covering or closing your eyes will do no good. Here's a test: close 
>>your eyes, and look towards a bright light. Notice how you can still 
>>see light. Make the light sufficiently bright and your eyelids will NOT 
>>protect you. This even applies to steel - pump sufficient (and we're 
>>talking a LOT) energy in, and it becomes transparent. Further, steel is 
>>much more transparent to gamma rays. 
> 
> 
>Yes, but that still doesn't change the point. If Tank is made of steel, and 
>exposed to enough light that he is flashed right through his 8cm armor, then 
>he is vaporized anyway. Furthermore, to simulate that level of Flash 
>Defense, you would need Flash Defense that would protect you from a Flash 
>Attack that would blind a normal for at least a couple of hundred years 
>(since his entire head vaporized). 
 
Repeat after me: SFX, SFX, SFX. 
 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 19:45:02 -0500 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
Subject: Re: Other Mailing Lists 
 
>>     I don't want anyone to think that I'm putting down supers games, but 
>>they're just not my cuppa. Therefore... 
>> 
>>     Can anyone direct me to (an)other list(s) that deal(s) specifically 
with 
>>the fantasy and/or hard SF implementation of the HSR? 
> 
>Hey post some of your ideers and see what spawns from it, we talk about 
>Champs mostly cause people bring UP champs stuff mostly, I prefer fantasy 
>myself. 
 
There was an FH list, years ago.  It died from lack of attention.  There are 
many of us on the list who are interested in fantasy.  This list is used most 
often to hash out the proper modelling of powers, and so I personally, 
don't care which genre is used to explain the mechanics. 
 
But as the above writer said: if you want to have a conversation about Fantasy 
Hero, start one.  If you want a list where you can sit back and read other 
people's 
discussions, you'll have to take what you can get.  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 21:01:36 -0500 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
Subject: Creation Workshop 
 
Would anyone familiar with customizing Creation Workshop who 
wouldn't mind helping me figure the damn thing out please contact 
me offlist? 
 
Thank you. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 21:23:43 -0500 
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net> 
Subject: Re: New Year's Predictions 
 
At 04:05 PM 1/1/99 -0500, you wrote: 
>Well, you missed the first one since they're saying second quarter on the 
>website.  (Of course, the website doesn't list any products what-so-ever 
>but that's a different problem.)  And number 5 moves up to number 1 on this 
>year's list.   
> 
<<snip>> 
>Well, let's see, #1 nearly happened in a bunch of far east nations.  I must 
>have missed #2.  Never heard about a Hanson sitcom (thank God).  Again no 
>retailations that I'm aware of.  I don't morning television so I can't 
>comment on #5. 
> 
>>   Now let's see how I do.  (I figure two from each section will be really 
>>good, and frankly I'm more confident of the second list than I am on the 
>>first!) 
> 
>Not too good, huh? 
>  Joe 
> 
> 
 
He can't have gotten any of them wrong yet: 1999 isn't over yet. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 20:23:00 -0600 
From: "Logan Darklighter" <logand@cyberramp.net> 
Subject: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN 
 
Here's something that's always bugged me. When you hit a vehicle hard enough 
to damage it and/or do knockback, how does the STUN damage from that attack 
tranlate to the Pilot of the vehicle? 
 
I can't find anything in the BBB rules that says STUN damage is even 
translated at all. I seem to recall that Eye for an Eye had a vehicle combat 
system. But I can't find that book anymore and don't recall whether there 
was anything in there on that. 
 
Should STUN damage be translated at all? Surely it must, otherwise, how do 
you handle move-through damage in a collision? 
 
For example, you might have a high powered brick or energy blaster trying to 
take a VIPER tank or mecha suit out of action, but he doesn't have the time 
to just destroy the thing outright before it pounds his teammates to mulch, 
or maybe has a code-vs.-killing that would prevent him from doing so. Can he 
at least hit it hard enough to con-stun the pilot long enough to get some 
breathing room? 
 
Another example might be in a straight anime-type giant robot genre, where 
mecha suits take enough damage to stagger the pilot. That's a common genre 
bit, especially if the mecha suit is linked so that the pilot feels damage 
to the unit as if it were his own body. 
 
On a slightly related tangent, using the Abrams tank from HSA II as an 
example. How do you achieve the classic brick-trick of bending the main 
turret gun barrel up to render the gun useless? Do you have to do more body 
than the DEF of the Tank as a whole? Or could you allow it to be handled via 
a STR roll? 
 
- -Logan 
 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
- -- 
 "God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable 
game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective 
of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex 
version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite 
stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who 
_smiles all the time_." 
   -Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett 
    _Good Omens_ 
*i.e., everybody. 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
- -- 
Web page: http://www.cyberramp.net/~logand/ 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 19:50:11 -0800 
From: "Ron Abitz" <abitz@richpoor.com> 
Subject: Seattle/Everett Area? 
 
Is there anyone on the list in the Seatle/Everett area of Washington State? 
 
               Ron Abitz 
            abitz@richpoor.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:12:05 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN 
 
>Here's something that's always bugged me. When you hit a vehicle hard enough 
>to damage it and/or do knockback, how does the STUN damage from that attack 
>tranlate to the Pilot of the vehicle? 
> 
>I can't find anything in the BBB rules that says STUN damage is even 
>translated at all. I seem to recall that Eye for an Eye had a vehicle combat 
>system. But I can't find that book anymore and don't recall whether there 
>was anything in there on that. 
> 
>Should STUN damage be translated at all? Surely it must, otherwise, how do 
>you handle move-through damage in a collision? 
 
There isn't anything listed in the main rules, probably vehicle armor is 
effectively 'wall' armor, and they don't assume any transferance through 
those.  The situation is a more complex with a vehicle, but that's the 
problem..._it's_ much more complex.  You can well argue that an attack that 
gets no knockback shouldn't do any damage to those inside unless Body 
penetrates. 
 
> 
>For example, you might have a high powered brick or energy blaster trying to 
>take a VIPER tank or mecha suit out of action, but he doesn't have the time 
>to just destroy the thing outright before it pounds his teammates to mulch, 
>or maybe has a code-vs.-killing that would prevent him from doing so. Can he 
>at least hit it hard enough to con-stun the pilot long enough to get some 
>breathing room? 
 
Only if he can aim for the pilot and get at least 1 Body through the 
defenses, far as I can tell. 
 
> 
>Another example might be in a straight anime-type giant robot genre, where 
>mecha suits take enough damage to stagger the pilot. That's a common genre 
>bit, especially if the mecha suit is linked so that the pilot feels damage 
>to the unit as if it were his own body. 
 
I think that latter is a special case, though.  Such Mecha shouldn't 
probably be built as vehicles per se. 
 
> 
>On a slightly related tangent, using the Abrams tank from HSA II as an 
>example. How do you achieve the classic brick-trick of bending the main 
>turret gun barrel up to render the gun useless? Do you have to do more body 
>than the DEF of the Tank as a whole? Or could you allow it to be handled via 
>a STR roll? 
 
Tank Guns can be argued as OAFs on a vehicle, and therefor outside the 
vehicle's defenses per se. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 22:05:21 -0600 
From: "Logan Darklighter" <logand@cyberramp.net> 
Subject: GENKI: Final Version 
 
Okay, this is the final writeup. Modified to take into account some of the 
advice I've received on the list. Thought you might like to see it. 
 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
 
CAUTION!!! 
 
This writeup is EXTREMELY powerful. If you use it in a superhero game, I 
recommend that it be used against heroes who have a lot of experience and/or 
power. I originally designed this with the intent to use it as a VIPER 
mecha. But reconsidered once I had finished. The players weren't anywhere 
near capable of fighting this thing!! Maybe when I get in a game where 
everyone is about 500 points I might reconsider springing this on them. 
 
 
 
 
GENKI 
(Trans: The Dark Devil) 
 
 
Val    Char    Cost    Roll    Notes 
45     STR     15        16-    12.5 Tons 
14     BODY   ---        12- 
4       SIZE     20 
16     DEF     42 
23     DEX     39        14-    OCV: 8 / DCV: 6 
  4     SPD      7          PHASES: 3, 6, 9, 12 
 
Total Characteristics Cost: 123 
 
Movement: Ground: 20" / 40" Superleap: 28" / 56" 
 
Powers: 
 
Twin Pumped Lasers: (OIF, Bulky -1) 
        4d6 RKA, (66) 
            Penetrating (+1/2), 
            No Range Penalty (+1/2), 
            Increased Max Range x5 (+1/4), 
            0 End (+1/2), 
            60 Degree Arc (-1/2) 
 
20MM Vulcan Cannon: (OIF,Bulky -1) 
        3d6 RKA, (45) 
            Autofire x10 (+3/4), 
            60 Charges (+1/2), 
            180 Degree Arc (-1/4) 
 
Multi-Missile Launcher (OIF, Bulky -1) 
        10d6 EB, (55) 
            Autofire x5 (+1/2), 
            Explosion (+1/2), 
            30 Charges (+1/4) 
            Indirect (+1/2), 
            Must Cross Intervening Space (-1/2) 
 
(Note: The Indirect Advantage is not for "phasing through walls" 
  or anything so esoteric, it is simply there to simulate the 
  fact that the missiles can be targeted as indirect fire. 
  They can be fired "over the horizon" over or around 
  buildings and corners.) 
 
Hardened Armor: 
    1 level of Hardening (10) 
 
Legs: (OIF, Bulky -1) 
        +14" Ground Movement (20" Total) (14) 
        Shrinking, 2 Lvls, 
            Only for Folding legs to Fit 2.5 x 2.5 meter Spaces (-1), 
            0 End (+1/2) (10) 
 
Jump Jets: (OIF, Bulky -1) 
        20" Superleap (5) 
 
Leg Spikes: (OIF, Bulky -1) 
        Clinging 45 STR (5) 
 
Communications: (OIF, Bulky -1) 
        High-Range Radio Hearing and Transmit (5) 
 
Optics: (OIF, Bulky -1) 
        Infra-Red Vision (2) 
        Ultra-Violet Vision (2) 
        +6 Telescopic (4) 
        Flash Defense -12 (6) 
 
Sealed Environment: (OIF, Bulky -1) 
        Life Support, Self Contained Breathing, (4) 
            5 Hour Limit, (-1/4) 
            Life Support, Safe in Vacuum/High Pressure, Radiation, Extreme 
            Heat/Cold (4) 
 
Wire Tentacles: (OIF, Bulky -1) 
        Extra Limbs x2 
            No Fine Manipulation (-1/2) (2) 
        4" Stretching, 
            Only on Wire Tentacles (-1/2), 
            0 End (+1/2), (12) 
 
Operator Neurolink System: (OIF, Bulky -1) 
        Multipower (30 Pt Pool), (Real Cost 15) 
                u - +5 DEX, (1) 
                u - +1 SPD, (1) 
                u - +3 Levels with Weapons (1) 
        Another Neurolink System for the Gunner (5) 
 
 
Total Powers Cost: 274 
Total Cost: 397 
 
Disads: 
        Susceptability: 
            1d6 DEX Drain Per Segment in intense Magnetic Fields (20) 
Distinctive Features: 
        Fearsome Spider-like Mecha: Not concealable, Extreme (25) 
Watched: 
        Hou Bang, Mo. Pow. NCI (15) 
Physical Limitations: 
        Incredibly Complex to Maintain and Repair (20) 
        Requires Special Training to Operate, All the time, Slight, (15) 
        Requires Two Operators, All the Time, Greatly (20) 
Reputation: 
        Mysterious Killing machine, Extreme Rep, 14- (20) 
 
Total Cost: 397 
Total Disadvantages: 135 
Base: 262 
Cost:  52 (Divided into 26 Points apiece for the two Operators) 
 
 
 
Creation Notes: This is my Hero System version of one of the coolest mecha 
I've ever seen. The Genki (Dark Devil) from Bubblegum Crisis #7 Double 
Vision. The Genki was truly a fearsome machine, capable of taking on a squad 
of standard BU 55C Combat Boomers and holding it's own. Against anything 
less than a Doberman or a giant superboomer it was nearly unstoppable. The 
armor proved impervious to the KnightSabers weaponry, and Kou, the standard 
gunner and copilot, acting alone, dealt Priss her first outright defeat in 
the series. 
 
Aside from it's deadly weaponry and thick armor, one of the things that made 
the Genki stand out was it's awesome agility and movement abilities. It 
could leap literally ten times it's own height, cling to any surface it 
could sink it's claws into, fold a segment of it's legs to fit into tight 
spaces and still be able to move at a good clip. 
 
A word on how I decided on the stats and powers. Much of the way the basic 
stats were laid out reflected perusal of both the source material, and 
comparison with the M1 A1 Abrams tank that was written up in Hero System 
Almanac 2, as well as comparisons with some of the mecha listed in VIPER. 
I figured if the Abrams could be considered a baseline for average, then 
the VIPER tanks are kind of a cheap knock off with tougher weapons but 
thinner armor. )  I figured if a superhero could get through the armor, 
there should be enough BODY to still take awhile to destroy/disable it. 
While still giving the Genki ample time to dish out damage in return or 
decide to retreat. 
 
I tried to come up with Disadvantages that seemed to fit what I had seen in 
the show, or were reasonable extrapolations based on my conception of how 
things work. The DEX Drain in Intense Magnetic fields was not shown in the 
show, but seemed to me a reasonable limitation based on the idea that it is 
not moved via hydraulics but via myomer style muscles similar to what 
Boomers use. I figure that much like the M-66 (another anime) the Genki's 
performance might start to degrade if someone activated an EMP field around 
it. 
 
Appearance: The Genki is very distinctive. In fact, it's a custom job, and 
there's absolutely no mistaking it for anything else. Also, although there 
might be similar mecha in the world in general, (The Genki is a heavily 
customized and upgraded version of a mecha that is sometimes found on the 
battlefield) you don't generally find them on the streets of MegaTokyo. And 
it would be considered extremely illegal to have it within the city limits. 
The Extreme reaction modifier comes from the fact that the thing seems to be 
pretty terrifying when encountered in the show. It's design does seem to be 
intended specifically to intimidate. 
 
Power Variations: If you want to downpower the Genki for use in your 
campaign, I recommend doing away with the reflex booster multipower, reduce 
the armor from 16 to a more reasonable 14, and reduce the level of the 
attacks by a die or two or removing some of the more obnoxious advantages 
and limitations. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 00:03:27 -0500 
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net> 
Subject: Re: New Year's Predictions 
 
At 09:23 PM 1/1/99 -0500, geoff heald wrote: 
>At 04:05 PM 1/1/99 -0500, you wrote: 
>>Well, you missed the first one since they're saying second quarter on the 
>>website.  (Of course, the website doesn't list any products what-so-ever 
>>but that's a different problem.)  And number 5 moves up to number 1 on this 
>>year's list.   
>> 
><<snip>> 
>>Well, let's see, #1 nearly happened in a bunch of far east nations.  I must 
>>have missed #2.  Never heard about a Hanson sitcom (thank God).  Again no 
>>retailations that I'm aware of.  I don't morning television so I can't 
>>comment on #5. 
>> 
>>>   Now let's see how I do.  (I figure two from each section will be really 
>>>good, and frankly I'm more confident of the second list than I am on the 
>>>first!) 
>> 
>>Not too good, huh? 
>>  Joe 
>> 
>> 
> 
>He can't have gotten any of them wrong yet: 1999 isn't over yet. 
 
Read my email again.  I posted last year's predictions which he couldn't find. 
 
  Joe 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 22:07:52 -0800 
From: jayphailey@juno.com (Jay P Hailey) 
Subject: Re: Conversion to Hero Question (Again :) 
 
>Has anyone heard of the game Dark Conspiracy by GDW?  If >So, has anyone 
tried converting any of it to Hero? 
> 
>Lisa Hartjes 
 
I have heard of Dark Conspiracy. I have never held a copy of it long 
enough to try and figure how I'd run it in Hero System. 
 
 
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> 
 
Get a taste of religion. Eat a missionary. 
 
___________________________________________________________________ 
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. 
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html 
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 22:03:03 -0800 
From: jayphailey@juno.com (Jay P Hailey) 
Subject: Re: Other Mailing Lists 
 
>Ask questions...I wouldn't mind more FH-type discussion on the list. 
> 
>J 
> 
>Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent.              Jeff Johnston  
 
I use HSR for just about all types of gaming I do. For though experiments 
I think about how I'd run lots of different games using the superior HSR 
rules, for instance Shadowrun is more playable as Shadowrun Hero, and 
Rifts actually gains game balance.  
 
I am in an AD&D game and my DM keeps finding these keen new rules, and I 
keep thinking "You can do this better in Fantasy Hero." 
 
And of course my Trek games benefitted strongly from using Hero system. 
 
Anyone else? 
 
 
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> 
 
Get a taste of religion. Eat a missionary. 
 
___________________________________________________________________ 
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. 
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html 
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 05:34:59 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: CSL vs DCV (was CHAR: Anita Carstairs) 
 
At 11:56 PM 1/1/99, qts wrote: 
>On Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:40:41 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote: 
> 
>>At 07:34 PM 12/31/98, qts wrote: 
>>>On Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:44:37 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote: 
>>> 
>>>>At 06:43 PM 12/30/98, qts wrote: 
>>>>>Err, this is what I'm saying! Except you seem to have understood the 
>>>>>reverse. You take a 5 pt CSL, then to make it DCV only, you apply a 
>>>>>Limitation, as per the HSR. 
>>>> 
>>>>   What edition are you reading?  Mine says that +1 to DCV *is* a 5-point 
>>>>Combat Skill Level (3rd paragraph after the first example under CSL). 
>>> 
>>>4th Ed, 2nd col, last para. 
>> 
>>   What page? 
> 
>22. 
 
   Oh, OK.  Yes, that's the part I was referring to. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 06:41:42 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: New Year's Predictions (1998) 
 
At 09:23 PM 1/1/99 -0500, geoff heald wrote: 
>At 04:05 PM 1/1/99 -0500, you wrote: 
>>Well, you missed the first one since they're saying second quarter on the 
>>website.  (Of course, the website doesn't list any products what-so-ever 
>>but that's a different problem.)  And number 5 moves up to number 1 on this 
>>year's list.   
>> 
><<snip>> 
>>Well, let's see, #1 nearly happened in a bunch of far east nations.  I must 
>>have missed #2.  Never heard about a Hanson sitcom (thank God).  Again no 
>>retailations that I'm aware of.  I don't morning television so I can't 
>>comment on #5. 
>> 
>>>   Now let's see how I do.  (I figure two from each section will be really 
>>>good, and frankly I'm more confident of the second list than I am on the 
>>>first!) 
>> 
>>Not too good, huh? 
>>  Joe 
>> 
>> 
> 
>He can't have gotten any of them wrong yet: 1999 isn't over yet. 
 
   This list Joe posted were for 1998. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 05:50:28 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: New Year's Predictions (1998) 
 
At 04:05 PM 1/1/99 -0500, Joe Mucchiello wrote: 
>You mean this list? 
 
   This is the one. 
 
>>   First, five Hero-related predictions: 
>> 
>>   1.  Due to various minor problems, the Fifth Edition Hero System 
>>Rulebook will be delayed until early 1999. 
 
   I was close!  (And may still be correct, if it's out by the end of March.) 
 
>>   2.  There will be four to six Ultimate books released, including my own. 
>> One of them (not necessarily mine) will be so good that even Stainless 
>>Steel Rat will have good words for it. 
 
   Wrong-O. 
 
>>   3.  One more company will approach the Hero Guys about doing licensed 
>>products for Fourth Edition, though negotiations will slow things down so 
>>the first product doesn't appear until 2000. 
>>   4.  There will be at least one mention of Hero Plus, Gold Rush, or both 
>>(whether a news article or a book promotion) on national network or 
>>syndicated television. 
 
   These two, I don't know the answer to, but it appears not.  Both have 
expanded versions in my new list. 
 
>>   5.  Someone will file an intellectual property lawsuit against Hero 
>>Games, only to have it thrown out of court. 
 
   And as you point out, this one also is on my new list in expanded form, 
though it's pretty sure to be as wrong this year as it was for 1998.  :-] 
   (Although this was was really more of a joke than anything else 
originally; I had NBC as the plaintiff in mind.  Ask Letterman about that 
one.) 
 
>>   Now, five predictions for the world at large: 
>> 
>>   1.  At least one Far Eastern nation will suffer a catastrophic financial 
>>collapse that rivals or even exceeds the severity of the Great Depression. 
 
   That one was close, but it didn't come much closer than was already the 
case at the time of the prediction. 
 
>>   2.  There will be a highly publicized but unsuccessful assassination 
>>attempt against Saddam Hussein. 
 
   I suppose one could count Desert Fox for this one. 
 
>>   3.  Hanson's sitcom will be either scuttled, or cancelled after no more 
>>than five episodes. 
 
   On this one I was right.  It wasn't that hard, though. 
 
>>   4.  Somebody will try something violent and ugly in retaliation for one 
>>of the events in the Branch Davidian/Timothy McVeigh line of events. 
 
   Absolutely wrong. 
 
>>   5.  Good Morning America (which already has Tom Bergeron, Laurie 
>>Hibberd, and Jeff MacGregor) will continue to pick up personnel and 
>>material (at least one unit from each category) from the old Breakfast Time 
>>and Fox After Breakfast programs. 
 
   Also wrong; in fact, they went the opposite direction, firing Tom (who 
now hosts the new Hollywood Squares). 
 
>Not too good, huh? 
>  Joe 
 
   I'd say that's being charitable.  Generously speaking I got three; 
strictly speaking I got one.  (Still, I think 10% is better than most 
tabloid psychics.) 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 10:27:35 EST 
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts) 
Subject: Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN 
 
>I can't find anything in the BBB rules that says STUN damage is even 
>translated at all. I seem to recall that Eye for an Eye had a vehicle 
combat 
>system. But I can't find that book anymore and don't recall whether 
there 
>was anything in there on that. 
> 
>Should STUN damage be translated at all? Surely it must, otherwise, how 
do 
>you handle move-through damage in a collision? 
 
(leafing through binder) Eye for an Eye says that the people in a vehicle 
take the Move Through or Move By damage that their vehicle takes, minus 
the vehicle's defenses and their own defenses.  If they're using safety 
equipment, like seatbelts, their damage is halved.  It doesn't discuss 
what happens when a car gets nailed by an Energy Blast, but I'd guess it 
would work the same way -- car gets its DEF, driver and passengers get 
car's DEF plus their own PD or ED. 
 
Leah 
 
___________________________________________________________________ 
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------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 06:39:06 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Vehicle Damage and Pilot STUN 
 
At 08:23 PM 1/1/99 -0600, Logan Darklighter wrote: 
>Here's something that's always bugged me. When you hit a vehicle hard enough 
>to damage it and/or do knockback, how does the STUN damage from that attack 
>tranlate to the Pilot of the vehicle? 
> 
>I can't find anything in the BBB rules that says STUN damage is even 
>translated at all. I seem to recall that Eye for an Eye had a vehicle combat 
>system. But I can't find that book anymore and don't recall whether there 
>was anything in there on that. 
> 
>Should STUN damage be translated at all? Surely it must, otherwise, how do 
>you handle move-through damage in a collision? 
 
   An attack's STUN damage would only translate to the Pilot if a vehicular 
Hit Location system (or something similar) is being used, the pilot's 
compartment is hit, and the BODY of the attack (preferably a Ranged one) 
exceeds the Vehicle's DEF.  In this case, it acts like a Force Wall against 
the attack, subtracting its DEF from the STUN and BODY. 
   It's always possible, of course, that a system will be damaged and cause 
operator damage.  How this is handled depends on the system, and generally 
requires either individualized mechanics (like Side Effects, Susceptibility 
as a Power Limitation, and such) or house rules. 
   In TUV I propose that vehicular DEF has more of an "Armor" effect (as 
opposed to the above "Force Wall" effect) when protecting the passengers 
from Move Through and Move By damage; that is, it protects those inside by 
subtracting its DEF from the STUN and BODY done.  Devices such as seat 
belts and airbags halve the damage from a collision. 
   As an afterthought (meaning I didn't think of it until right now so it 
probably won't be in the book unless Bruce is reading this and decides to 
add it to my manuscript), Move Through and Move By damage could probably be 
applied to those in the target vehicle at a reduced rate, as though they 
were in the initiating vehicle, depending on the GM's preference. 
 
>For example, you might have a high powered brick or energy blaster trying to 
>take a VIPER tank or mecha suit out of action, but he doesn't have the time 
>to just destroy the thing outright before it pounds his teammates to mulch, 
>or maybe has a code-vs.-killing that would prevent him from doing so. Can he 
>at least hit it hard enough to con-stun the pilot long enough to get some 
>breathing room? 
 
   I would say not; whatever "con-stun" is, it's unlikely that a brick 
could hit a vehicle hard enough to do it to the operator. 
 
>Another example might be in a straight anime-type giant robot genre, where 
>mecha suits take enough damage to stagger the pilot. That's a common genre 
>bit, especially if the mecha suit is linked so that the pilot feels damage 
>to the unit as if it were his own body. 
 
   This could be handled by a variation on Vulnerability, or sometimes by 
the Feedback Limitation on Mind Link. 
 
>On a slightly related tangent, using the Abrams tank from HSA II as an 
>example. How do you achieve the classic brick-trick of bending the main 
>turret gun barrel up to render the gun useless? Do you have to do more body 
>than the DEF of the Tank as a whole? Or could you allow it to be handled via 
>a STR roll? 
 
   In general, since the device is being targeted, I'd use the device's DEF 
based on the Focus rules. 
   The main problem I have with this is that the Focus rules gives a DEF 
equal to AP/5, so the Abrams' main gun, at 150 Active Points, would have a 
DEF of 30.  I'm of a mind that the DEF should be AP/10, giving it a more 
reasonable DEF of 15, or even that DEF should be declared at 3 with the 
option of buying up at 1:1.  (I'd say this is grist for the mill in The 
Ultimate Gadgeteer!)  :-] 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:22:27 -0600 
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net> 
Subject: Hero Creator Patches? 
 
What patches are available for Hero Creator, and where can I find them? 
 
Thanks, 
 
Guy 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 13:53:28 EST 
From: MWStrong@aol.com 
Subject: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
 
If anyone is worried about their systems and the Y2k bug, you can try this for 
Windows95: 
1) back up everything important, make a boot disk, and scan for viruses. 
2) go to your control panel, date & time 
3) reset the date for Dec 31, 1999 
4) set the time for about 12:59:00 (2359) 
5) shut down your computer normally 
6) wait a minuet or two, then start up the system. 
If your system and Win95 fails to boot properly, you have a Y2k bug, try to 
reboot using your boot diks (floppy).  You should be able to use the DATE 
command to reset the date to 1/1/99.   
If you can not reboot properly with the boot floppy, you can try to reset the 
date in the BIOS setup. 
If the system loads Win95 properly, try,one at a time, to open your important 
applications, use a few functions (including any date related ones), and close 
them.  If the application fails to function properly, it might have a Y2k bug. 
 
If you suspect that you have a Y2k bug, go to the internet site of the 
programs' maker and check for an update for the software. 
 
Remember to reset the date / time to the proper settings.... 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 15:43:27 -0500 
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net> 
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
 
Ummm, why would Windows 95 fail to boot properly?  I understand that the 
system might display the wrong date, specific applications screwing up time 
stamps or not working with data correctly.  I fail to understand how this 
would keep the system from booting properly. 
 
In my opinion, this is a _very_poor_ test to find out if you have any Y2K 
problems.  While I don't have the links handy, there are utilities that will 
tell you if your BIOS has Y2K problems or not.  You can also go to 
Microsoft's web site and download some Y2K patches ... most of which are for 
specific applications, not the "OS" itself. 
 
Up on my soapbox 
 
Y2K is a serious problem that is going to cause us lots of problems.  At the 
same time (not to pick on MWStrong) I'm tired of all the silly hype that 
says my computer won't boot, that my microwave and VCR are no longer going 
to work, and so on and so forth.  Granted, you might have to play a few 
games to program your VCR to tape at the right time, but over all it will 
still work.  I get a huge chuckle out of the latest sets of advertisements I 
see for laser and ink jet printers (the industry I'm in) claiming Y2K 
compliance.  Of course it's Y2K compliant ... it's a freeking printer!!  Of 
course, we will be doing the same thing when advertising our products this 
coming year.  :-) 
 
Off the soapbox. 
 
Sorry. Y2K is indeed a serious issue, but it also gets blown out of 
proportion by people who don't understand what the problems are (again, I'm 
not picking on MWStrong) .  I have even seen outright untruths about the 
issue on the evening news. 
 
~ Mike 
 
- -----Original Message----- 
From: MWStrong@aol.com <MWStrong@aol.com> 
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Date: Saturday, January 02, 1999 2:23 PM 
Subject: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
 
 
>If anyone is worried about their systems and the Y2k bug, you can try this 
for 
>Windows95: 
>1) back up everything important, make a boot disk, and scan for viruses. 
>2) go to your control panel, date & time 
>3) reset the date for Dec 31, 1999 
>4) set the time for about 12:59:00 (2359) 
>5) shut down your computer normally 
>6) wait a minuet or two, then start up the system. 
>If your system and Win95 fails to boot properly, you have a Y2k bug, try to 
>reboot using your boot diks (floppy).  You should be able to use the DATE 
>command to reset the date to 1/1/99. 
>If you can not reboot properly with the boot floppy, you can try to reset 
the 
>date in the BIOS setup. 
>If the system loads Win95 properly, try,one at a time, to open your 
important 
>applications, use a few functions (including any date related ones), and 
close 
>them.  If the application fails to function properly, it might have a Y2k 
bug. 
> 
>If you suspect that you have a Y2k bug, go to the internet site of the 
>programs' maker and check for an update for the software. 
> 
>Remember to reset the date / time to the proper settings.... 
> 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 13:29:08 -0800 
From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com> 
Subject: Re: Y2k bug [VCR Fun] 
 
At 03:43 PM 1/2/99 -0500, you wrote: 
> 
>to work, and so on and so forth.  Granted, you might have to play a few 
>games to program your VCR to tape at the right time, but over all it will 
 
For anyone out there with a VCR that can't handle the year 2000, set your 
year to 1972, the days of the week in '72 are the same as 2000. 
 
- -Nic 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 16:56:12 EST 
From: HeroGames@aol.com 
Subject: Re: Hero Creator Patches? 
 
In a message dated 1/2/99 10:36:34 AM, ghoyle1@airmail.net writes: 
 
>What patches are available for Hero Creator, and where can I find them? 
> 
> 
 
The latest version is 1.4; if you have 1.0, you can find the updater on our 
web site at www.herogames.com. Sometime later this month (or next) we should 
be posting version 1.5, which will fix the few bugs that we've found and add 
some new features (like making it easy to drop in your own logo on the 
character sheet). 
 
 Steve Peterson, Hero Games  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 23:16:13 GMT 
From: samael@clark.net (Acid Rainbow) 
Subject: Re: Hero Creator Patches? 
 
On Sat, 2 Jan 1999 16:56:12 EST, HeroGames@aol.com sent these symbols into 
the net: 
 
>The latest version is 1.4; if you have 1.0, you can find the updater on our 
>web site at www.herogames.com. Sometime later this month (or next) we should 
>be posting version 1.5, which will fix the few bugs that we've found and add 
>some new features (like making it easy to drop in your own logo on the 
>character sheet). 
   Since you don't have on-line ordering available yet, I'd like to know if 
the order form *has* to be in pdf format. IMO it would be much better to do 
the order form itself in text or html so that arthritic people like myself 
can type in the entries. 
********************************************************************** 
*Lissajous patterns and windmills and don't ask about the connection.* 
*       Acid Rainbow: Semi-professional windmill-tilter.             * 
********************************************************************** 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 19:06:26 -0800 (PST) 
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com> 
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
 
MWStrong@aol.com writes: 
 
> If anyone is worried about their systems and the Y2k bug, you can 
> try this for Windows95: 
 
> 1) back up everything important, make a boot disk, and scan for viruses. 
 
     Also, make sure you know how to get into your BIOS setup to reset the 
date if your machine fails to boot properly. It's probably a good idea to 
check on this one *before* you reset the date :-).  Different systems use 
different keys; some use F1, some use F8, some use odd combinations of keys. 
 
     And make sure you try to actually get into the BIOS setup before you 
change the date - I once spent about a week trying to figure out how to 
reset the CMOS on my system (even going so far as to unsolder the CMOS 
battery to let it reset on its own) before I figured out that the F1 key 
on my keyboard was malfunctioning... :-). 
 
> 2) go to your control panel, date & time 
> 3) reset the date for Dec 31, 1999 
> 4) set the time for about 12:59:00 (2359) 
> 5) shut down your computer normally 
> 6) wait a minuet or two, then start up the system. 
 
> If your system and Win95 fails to boot properly, you have a Y2k bug, try to 
> reboot using your boot diks (floppy).  You should be able to use the DATE 
> command to reset the date to 1/1/99.   
 
> If you can not reboot properly with the boot floppy, you can try to reset the 
> date in the BIOS setup. 
 
> If the system loads Win95 properly, try,one at a time, to open your 
> important applications, use a few functions (including any date 
> related ones), and close them.  If the application fails to function 
> properly, it might have a Y2k bug. 
  
> If you suspect that you have a Y2k bug, go to the internet site of the 
> programs' maker and check for an update for the software. 
>  
> Remember to reset the date / time to the proper settings.... 
>  
 
Steven J. Owens 
puff@netcom.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
End of champ-l-digest V1 #118 
***************************** 


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