Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 130

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 11:35 AM 
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #130 
 
 
champ-l-digest        Tuesday, January 12 1999        Volume 01 : Number 130 
 
 
 
In this issue: 
 
    Re: Paying for Equipment 
    Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
    Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
    Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
    Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
    Re: Need help for character design 
    Re: Paying for Equipment 
    Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
    Re: Maps To The Stars Homes... 
    Re: Paying for Equipment 
    Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
    Re: Need help for character design 
    Re: Paying for Equipment 
    Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
    1st & 2nd Edition Hero (the boxed set questions) 
    Re: Hero Creator templates 
    Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
    The Kandris Seal 
    Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
    Re: The Kandris Seal 
    Re: The Kandris Seal 
    Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
    Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
    Re: The Kandris Seal 
    Re: Need help for character design 
    Psych Lim:Vengeful 
    Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
    Re: The Kandris Seal 
    Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
    Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
    Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
    Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
    Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
    [none] 
    Re: Paying for Equipment 
    Re: Paying for Equipment 
    Re: The Kandris Seal 
    Re: The Kandris Seal 
    Re: The Kandris Seal 
    Re: The Kandris Seal 
    Re: The Kandris Seal 
    Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
    Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:40:04 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment 
 
>On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:42:28 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote: 
> 
>>I charge a silver per active point cost of an item for base magic item 
>>value, but you know... few people sell items, cause they are like heirlooms 
>>and treasures for anyone.  Especially the guy who spent XPS makin it. 
> 
>When it comes to magic items which involve investiture of CPs,  these 
>are simply *never* made for cash. If the PC wants a wizard to make him 
>a Ring of Invisibility, he'll have to trade another item for it or do 
>the wizard a real big favour - a quest or other mission. 
 
Of course this assumes that there's no way around investing Character 
Points.  In my last FH campaign, there were various exotic materials worth 
the equivelent of some number of Character Points for purposes of magic item 
construction; at that point it was possible to buy magic items either with a 
lot of money or by procuring enough of one of these materials to both pay 
for the item and provide a profit for the enchanter. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:18:28 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
 
At 01:43 PM 1/11/99 -0600, gilberg@ou.edu wrote: 
> 
>>g>         Box?  What box? 
>> 
>>I believe the first edition of the game came in a box.  I might be confused 
>>with the second edition, though. 
> 
>        I have no clue myself.  I just considered the book a good find. 
>Anyone who can clue us in? 
 
   My recollection is that the boxed set was a 2nd edition item, identical 
in most ways to the stand-alone version except that the cover was 
black-and-white (like the 1st edition, except that the book itself was 
still the 2nd edition). 
   The set (IIRC) included a GM's screen, a hex map, three itty-bitty dice 
(which I ended up using for "half dice" in Killing Attacks and such), and 
maybe an additional book like an adventure module or something. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:51:36 -0500 
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com> 
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
 
>>Did if have the box? 
> 
>        Box?  What box? 
> 
> 
>                                                -Tim Gilberg 
 
 
The box with three 6-sided die, the rules, a hex map and ordering info (the 
complimentary catalogue).  The Box had a colored picture of the 1st ed. b&w 
cover, if I remember right. 
 
- -Miller 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:03:44 -0800 
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com> 
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
 
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre wrote: 
>  
> At 13:43 -0600 1/11/99, gilberg@ou.edu wrote: 
> >>g>         Box?  What box? 
> >> 
> >>I believe the first edition of the game came in a box.  I might be confused 
> >>with the second edition, though. 
> > 
> >        I have no clue myself.  I just considered the book a good find. 
> >Anyone who can clue us in? 
> > 
>  
> The oldest edition I have -- sent to me by Scott Heine, I think I was eight 
> when the first edition came out! -- is a boxed set.  I was pretty sure that 
> was the first, although now I'm wondering. 
 
If my senilty isn't getting it wrong.  I think there was an edition that was 
just before the boxed set.  The boxed set was the first copy I picked up, but 
there was something before it.   I think it was the book that was inside the 
box, 
but in color.  I might be able to check it out tonight. 
 
- -Mark Lemming 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:54:45 -0500 
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com> 
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
 
>The game book had the same art, but just in b&w.  It also came with 6 
>little black d6's, and I think a sample adventure called "Viper's Nest". 
 
 
I'm praying that that was a re-release, otherwise I got ripped off back 
then, grrrrrrr (turning green).  You got three more dice!!!!!  Drat. 
 
Viper's Nest?  Can you give us a hint on what THAT was all about? 
 
- -Miller 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:43:11 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Need help for character design 
 
> 
>>>I'm trying to design a villianess named Contagion. Her primary power is that 
>>>she can change the genetic structure of anyone she an touch, inducing powers 
>>>(and a grotesqupe mutanted appearance). She can tailor these powers and the 
>>>longer seh touches her target, the more extenive changes she can make. Any 
>>>suggestions?  
>> 
>>There is no particularly good way to do this in the Hero System, because it 
>>adds up to a massive infusion of points.  As close to any rule really 
>>permitting it, it's a Transform.  I think I'd personally link it to a Summon 
>>of appropriate size and call it good. 
> 
>        Not at all.  Transform (Major) will do it just fine.  Cumulative, of 
>course, based on the "longer she touches" thing.  Remember, Transform has 
>nothing disallowing the adding of powers.  Just make sure you have GM 
>permission.  As you are the GM. . . . 
 
It's also considered a dubious operation even by the designers of the game. 
Personally, I dislike giving powers to NPCs I'd forbid to a PC, and I'd 
certainly not allow a PC to power people up just with a Transform.  If it 
really is just a plot device, then there's no reason to build it as a power 
at all. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:08:18 -0800 
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to> 
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment 
 
[snip snip snip] 
 
>>When it comes to magic items which involve investiture of CPs,  these 
>>are simply *never* made for cash. 
> 
>Of course this assumes that there's no way around investing Character 
>Points. 
 
It also assumes that the amount of cash could not be worth the points. If 
the Filthy Rich king wants a magic item, it may very well cost him a large 
portion of his wealth to get it, effectively transfering the perk (or some 
portion of it) to the creating character. 
 
JAJ, GP 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:38:45 -0800 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
 
>> I believe the first edition of the game came in a box.  I might be confused 
>> with the second edition, though. 
> 
>Yeah, the box had a blue cover with some flying energy projector on it. 
>The game book had the same art, but just in b&w.  It also came with 6  
>little black d6's, and I think a sample adventure called "Viper's Nest". 
 
thats second edition.  First edition was really crappy, very very low tech, 
cheezy art, stapled together 
 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo    	Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:55:34 -0800 
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@usa.net> 
Subject: Re: Maps To The Stars Homes... 
 
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com> 
 
 
 
>Greetings! 
> 
>     I need some information on an RPG called (I think) "Universe".  It had 
a 
>ponderous character generation system and it was practically impossible to 
>play, BUT... 
> 
>     It had MARVELOUS rules for designing stellar systems and a 
poster-sized 
>star map with the Earth-Sol system at the center and X-Y-Z coordinates for 
all 
>the stellar systems within a certain distance of Earth. By plugging the 
X-Y-Z 
>coordinates into an equation, you could tell the distance between any two 
>stars on the map. 
 
 
I don't know that one, but there was a "Traveler 2300" (or something 
similar) which had a similar star map and a list of all stars with XYZ 
coordinates. I found it invaluable when I was running my first SF campaign, 
as it allowed me to know, not only what was near Earth, but calculate the 
general stellar density of Sol-type stars to the other types. 
 
Filksinger 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:23:32 -0800 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment 
 
>>>I charge a silver per active point cost of an item for base magic item 
>>>value, but you know... few people sell items, cause they are like heirlooms 
>>>and treasures for anyone.  Especially the guy who spent XPS makin it. 
>> 
>>When it comes to magic items which involve investiture of CPs,  these 
>>are simply *never* made for cash. If the PC wants a wizard to make him 
>>a Ring of Invisibility, he'll have to trade another item for it or do 
>>the wizard a real big favour - a quest or other mission. 
> 
>Of course this assumes that there's no way around investing Character 
>Points.  In my last FH campaign, there were various exotic materials worth 
>the equivelent of some number of Character Points for purposes of magic item 
>construction; at that point it was possible to buy magic items either with a 
>lot of money or by procuring enough of one of these materials to both pay 
>for the item and provide a profit for the enchanter. 
 
Seems like a lot of us do that, although I always charge SOME xps to make 
an item, I like em rare and dear to the guys who make them. 
 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo    	Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:35:16 -0800 
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com> 
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
 
Ronald A. Miller wrote: 
>  
> >The game book had the same art, but just in b&w.  It also came with 6 
> >little black d6's, and I think a sample adventure called "Viper's Nest". 
>  
> I'm praying that that was a re-release, otherwise I got ripped off back 
> then, grrrrrrr (turning green).  You got three more dice!!!!!  Drat. 
>  
> Viper's Nest?  Can you give us a hint on what THAT was all about? 
 
I wasn't sure about the dice.  At either Pacificon or DunDraCon, Hero was 
selling those dice at I think $1 a handfull.  With size 15 feet, my hands 
are in proportion.  I think it worked out to around 100 dice per scoop for 
my groups dice box. 
 
- -Mark Lemming 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:56:23 -0500 
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net> 
Subject: Re: Need help for character design 
 
>>        Not at all.  Transform (Major) will do it just fine.  Cumulative, of 
>>course, based on the "longer she touches" thing.  Remember, Transform has 
>>nothing disallowing the adding of powers.  Just make sure you have GM 
>>permission.  As you are the GM. . . . 
> 
>It's also considered a dubious operation even by the designers of the game. 
>Personally, I dislike giving powers to NPCs I'd forbid to a PC, and I'd 
>certainly not allow a PC to power people up just with a Transform.  If it 
>really is just a plot device, then there's no reason to build it as a power 
>at all. 
> 
> 
 
I think I am going to go with the Summon and Tranform options that were 
suggested. They seem to be the closet in effect to what I was looking for. 
By getting several "summons" each with more extra time, I get get across the 
"more time, more power" effect. If I can get it to work, I may post the 
character to the list if anyone is interested.  
 
Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions and for that matter, keep 'em 
coming. :)  
 
 
Oh! Its all hot and sticky. 
Is this blood? Nice.... 
	Lillith-Darkstalkers 3 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:50:24 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment 
 
>Seems like a lot of us do that, although I always charge SOME xps to make 
>an item, I like em rare and dear to the guys who make them. 
 
I didn't, because the world background made enchanted items _comparitively_ 
common; there were people who made their living off of enchanting, and a 
character point cost would have made that impossible. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:01:06 -0800 
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@usa.net> 
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
 
From: Rick Jones <rick@blkbox.com> 
 
 
>Stainless Steel Rat wrote: 
>> I believe the first edition of the game came in a box.  I might be 
confused 
>> with the second edition, though. 
> 
>Yeah, the box had a blue cover with some flying energy projector on it. 
>The game book had the same art, but just in b&w.  It also came with 6 
>little black d6's, and I think a sample adventure called "Viper's Nest". 
> 
 
 
I had that one at one time. It was definitely _second_ edition, however. 
 
Filksinger 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:06:31 -0600 
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net> 
Subject: 1st & 2nd Edition Hero (the boxed set questions) 
 
I have the boxed set in front of me as I write this. 
 
On the bottom of the box, in the upper left-hand corner, it says "2nd 
Edition *Revised*" and one edge of the box gives the product number as 
HER001-B (rather than HER001).  That seems pretty clear. 
 
Contents of the box are listed as: 
* 80 page CHAMPIONS book 
* 16 page VIPER'S NEST scenario 
* Character sheets 
* 17" x 22" street map 
* Six dice 
* Hours of fun! 
 
The 80-page book currently in the box may or may not be the one that 
originally came with the box, but the cover art for this boox and the box 
are identical, and both in color.  The book's dedication reads "The 2nd 
Edition of CHAMPIONS is dedicated to the following people: <list of 
names>".  Note that this is *not* Champions II (HER008), which is also an 
80-page book, and the one I think is most frequently associated with the 
game's 2nd Edition. 
 
VIPER'S NEST is a scenario involving three encounters with VIPER.  George 
MacDonald wrote it.  Included are writeups for UNTIL agents, VIPER agents, 
the VIPER nest leader, Bluejay, Brick and Cheshire Cat. 
 
Damon 
 
 
  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:06:56 -0800 (PST) 
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com> 
Subject: Re: Hero Creator templates 
 
Greetings! 
 
- ---Guy Hoyle <ghoyle1@airmail.net> wrote: 
> 
> In Hero Creator, you can save a character sheet as a "character template".  
> What's the advantage of doing so? 
>  
 
     Guy, I don't have Hero Creator (money is tight right now) but, if I 
understand the concept correctly, templates would be used for mass character 
generation. For instance, you design one agent of evil, save the sheet as a 
template, and just make minor changes to that template for each additional AofE. 
 
     Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please. 
 
Dale A. Ward 
 
_________________________________________________________ 
DO YOU YAHOO!? 
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:00:53 -0800 (PST) 
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com> 
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
 
- ---Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <scm@mactyre.net> wrote: 
> 
> At 13:43 -0600 1/11/99, gilberg@ou.edu wrote: 
> >>g>         Box?  What box? 
> >> 
> >>I believe the first edition of the game came in a box.  I might be 
confused 
> >>with the second edition, though. 
> > 
> >        I have no clue myself.  I just considered the book a good 
find. 
> >Anyone who can clue us in? 
> > 
>  
> The oldest edition I have -- sent to me by Scott Heine, I think I 
was eight 
> when the first edition came out! -- is a boxed set.  I was pretty 
sure that 
> was the first, although now I'm wondering. 
 
Well, I suddenly feel very old.  Thank you very much..... 
 
_________________________________________________________ 
DO YOU YAHOO!? 
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:45:18 -0700 
From: "Robert Bose" <rbose@arcane.com> 
Subject: The Kandris Seal 
 
I was checking out the Hero website and they mention an upcoming product 
called 'The Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this is? Champions, 
Fantasy Hero, sourcebook, adventure, whatever??? 
 
Rob Bose 
rbose@arcane.com 
http://www.arcane.com/press 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:45:59 -0800 
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <scm@mactyre.net> 
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
 
At 05:00 PM 1/11/99 -0800, John Desmarais wrote: 
>> The oldest edition I have -- sent to me by Scott Heine, I think I 
>was eight 
>> when the first edition came out! -- is a boxed set.  I was pretty 
>sure that 
>> was the first, although now I'm wondering. 
> 
>Well, I suddenly feel very old.  Thank you very much..... 
 
My work here is done.....  
 
....I do the same thing to my husband (who is 36), if it makes anyone feel 
better.   
 
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre 
http://www.mactyre.net 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:39:14 -0500 
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com> 
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal 
 
Rob Bose sez: 
 
>I was checking out the Hero website and they mention an upcoming product 
>called 'The Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this is? Champions, 
>Fantasy Hero, sourcebook, adventure, whatever??? 
 
Miller sez: 
 
Ask Bruce, Bruce knows all, Bruce sees all... 
brucehh@earthlink.net  I think. 
 
It's on the HERO page, I'm sure you already know... 
BTW nice work on the FH pages, they're always a good read :) 
 
- -Miller 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:12:13 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal 
 
At 06:45 PM 1/11/99 -0700, Robert Bose wrote: 
>I was checking out the Hero website and they mention an upcoming product 
>called 'The Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this is? Champions, 
>Fantasy Hero, sourcebook, adventure, whatever??? 
 
   It's a Fantasy Hero setting if I recall correctly.  It also seems to me 
that the author has been on this list in the past, though that may have 
changed. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:21:51 -0600 (CST) 
From: gilberg@ou.edu 
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
 
>>> I believe the first edition of the game came in a box.  I might be confused 
>>> with the second edition, though. 
>> 
>>Yeah, the box had a blue cover with some flying energy projector on it. 
>>The game book had the same art, but just in b&w.  It also came with 6  
>>little black d6's, and I think a sample adventure called "Viper's Nest". 
> 
>thats second edition.  First edition was really crappy, very very low tech, 
>cheezy art, stapled together 
 
        Sounds like what I got. 
 
 
 
                                        -Tim Gilberg 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:16:03 -0600 (CST) 
From: gilberg@ou.edu 
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
 
>>>I believe the first edition of the game came in a box.  I might be confused 
>>>with the second edition, though. 
>> 
>>        I have no clue myself.  I just considered the book a good find. 
>>Anyone who can clue us in? 
>> 
> 
>The oldest edition I have -- sent to me by Scott Heine, I think I was eight 
>when the first edition came out! -- is a boxed set.  I was pretty sure that 
>was the first, although now I'm wondering. 
 
        Well, it's quite possible that I only got the book from a boxed set. 
I do know that the book says 1st edition and has a 1981 date. 
 
 
                                        -Tim Gilberg 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:12:39 -0500 (EST) 
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja) 
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal 
 
>From: rbose@arcane.com (RobertBose) 
 
>>I was checking out the Hero website and they 
>> mention an upcoming product called 'The 
>> Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this 
>> is? Champions, Fantasy Hero, sourcebook, 
>> adventure, whatever???  
 
Dunno--but it definitely has the eu-de-FANTASY HERO to it..... 
 
"It's almost Dante's Inferno, except the beer was cheaper in Hell, and 
the damned were smarter than this crowd." 
                    --Evan Dorkin, DORK #2 
____________________________________ 
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is 
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley 
_______________________________ 
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP 
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE 
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:21:19 -0600 (CST) 
From: gilberg@ou.edu 
Subject: Re: Need help for character design 
 
    Not at all.  Transform (Major) will do it just fine.  Cumulative, of 
>>course, based on the "longer she touches" thing.  Remember, Transform has 
>>nothing disallowing the adding of powers.  Just make sure you have GM 
>>permission.  As you are the GM. . . . 
> 
>It's also considered a dubious operation even by the designers of the game. 
 
        Not so much dubious as potentially balance-threatening, but yeah. 
However, not allowing such to occur needlessly hinders the game system.  It 
is best as is--allow it, but with strict controls. 
 
>Personally, I dislike giving powers to NPCs I'd forbid to a PC, and I'd 
 
        I don't.  I can think of interesting 1-dimensional constructs with 
huge attacks or defenses or whatnot that just wouldn't work as PCs.  They 
still have a place in a game world, however. 
 
>certainly not allow a PC to power people up just with a Transform.   
 
        I possibly would if the player had a kick-ass conception and I knew 
he or she was mature enough to handle this power. 
 
>If it 
>really is just a plot device, then there's no reason to build it as a power 
>at all. 
 
        I've never found this particular sour grapes argument at all satisfying. 
 
 
 
                                                -Tim Gilberg 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:28:02 -0500 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
Subject: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
 
In every game I run, at least one player tries to take the disadvantage: 
 
Vengeful, uncommon strong. 
 
I don't see this as limiting, just an excuse to act as the player would 
any way.   
 
What does the list think? 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would  
think of saying except in a desperate case.  It is like saying 
'My mother, drunk or sober.'" 
        G.K. Chesterton 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Scott C. Nolan 
nolan@erols.com   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:20:32 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
 
>In every game I run, at least one player tries to take the disadvantage: 
> 
>Vengeful, uncommon strong. 
> 
>I don't see this as limiting, just an excuse to act as the player would 
>any way.   
> 
>What does the list think? 
 
Like Enraged, it can indeed be limiting, because it means the player will 
sometimes pursue his vengence even when it's obviously a Really Bad Idea. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:36:32 EST 
From: HeroGames@aol.com 
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal 
 
In a message dated 1/11/99 6:09:41 PM, rbose@arcane.com writes: 
 
>I was checking out the Hero website and they mention an upcoming product 
>called 'The Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this is? Champions, 
>Fantasy Hero, sourcebook, adventure, whatever??? 
> 
 
It's actually a Champions adventure, set in the New Millennium universe, but 
really usable anywhere. With heavy mystical elements, as you might expect from 
the title. We expect to get the final in very soon... 
 
 Steve Peterson, Hero Games  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:07:30 -0500 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
Subject: Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
 
>>In every game I run, at least one player tries to take the disadvantage: 
>> 
>>Vengeful, uncommon strong. 
>> 
>>I don't see this as limiting, just an excuse to act as the player would 
>>any way. 
>> 
>>What does the list think? 
> 
>Well, I only had one player do this, and he certainly lived up to it! In 
>real life as well as in the game! So I guess you could say it was only 
>appropriate. (He was a twit and a loser anyway. I wasn't sad at all to see 
>his first two characters go up in blazes of glory due to his own stupidity. 
>He never learned either. Sigh) 
 
Not exactly a glowing recommendation for the limitation! 
 
In what way did you find that it limited your twit player?  
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would  
think of saying except in a desperate case.  It is like saying 
'My mother, drunk or sober.'" 
        G.K. Chesterton 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Scott C. Nolan 
nolan@erols.com   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:04:20 -0600 
From: "Logan D." <logand@cyberramp.net> 
Subject: Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
 
- -----Original Message----- 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
To: champs-l@sysabend.org <champs-l@sysabend.org> 
Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 11:54 PM 
Subject: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
 
 
>In every game I run, at least one player tries to take the disadvantage: 
> 
>Vengeful, uncommon strong. 
> 
>I don't see this as limiting, just an excuse to act as the player would 
>any way. 
> 
>What does the list think? 
 
Well, I only had one player do this, and he certainly lived up to it! In 
real life as well as in the game! So I guess you could say it was only 
appropriate. (He was a twit and a loser anyway. I wasn't sad at all to see 
his first two characters go up in blazes of glory due to his own stupidity. 
He never learned either. Sigh) 
 
- -Logan 
 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
- -- 
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable 
game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective 
of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex 
version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite 
stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who 
_smiles all the time_." 
   -Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett 
    _Good Omens_ 
*i.e., everybody. 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
- -- 
web page: http://www.cyberramp.net/~logand/ 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:18:25 -0500 
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net> 
Subject: Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
 
At 12:28 AM 1/12/99 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote: 
>In every game I run, at least one player tries to take the disadvantage: 
> 
>Vengeful, uncommon strong. 
> 
>I don't see this as limiting, just an excuse to act as the player would 
>any way.   
> 
>What does the list think? 
> 
 
 
It can be used against the character with it. Vengeful means the character 
will go out of his way for revenge. Pursing enemies off the feild (to be 
lead into a trap) for example. Vengence can cloud judgement. Set up 
"enemies" for the character with very public and respected positions, 
powerful minions or both. Once the charcter vengeful nature is known, he an 
be manipulated, distracted and made to look bad in a variety of ways.  
 
  
 
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
>"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would  
>think of saying except in a desperate case.  It is like saying 
>'My mother, drunk or sober.'" 
>        G.K. Chesterton 
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
>Scott C. Nolan 
>nolan@erols.com   
> 
> 
 
 
Oh! Its all hot and sticky. 
Is this blood? Nice.... 
	Lillith-Darkstalkers 3 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:56:40 -0600 
From: "Logan D." <logand@cyberramp.net> 
Subject: Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
 
- -----Original Message----- 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
To: champs-l@sysabend.org <champs-l@sysabend.org> 
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 12:46 AM 
Subject: Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
 
 
>>>In every game I run, at least one player tries to take the disadvantage: 
>>> 
>>>Vengeful, uncommon strong. 
>>> 
>>>I don't see this as limiting, just an excuse to act as the player would 
>>>any way. 
>>> 
>>>What does the list think? 
>> 
>>Well, I only had one player do this, and he certainly lived up to it! In 
>>real life as well as in the game! So I guess you could say it was only 
>>appropriate. (He was a twit and a loser anyway. I wasn't sad at all to see 
>>his first two characters go up in blazes of glory due to his own 
stupidity. 
>>He never learned either. Sigh) 
> 
>Not exactly a glowing recommendation for the limitation! 
> 
>In what way did you find that it limited your twit player? 
 
 
(LOL)  It _didn't_ !! That was the problem!  It fit right in with what you 
might call his _real life_ psych lims! So he was doing in the game what he 
wanted to do in real life and _couldn't get away with_ !! He honestly made 
me nervous at times. I'm glad I'm not playing in that circle of gamers 
anymore. 
 
- -Logan 
 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
- -- 
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable 
game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective 
of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex 
version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite 
stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who 
_smiles all the time_." 
   -Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett 
    _Good Omens_ 
*i.e., everybody. 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
- -- 
web page: http://www.cyberramp.net/~logand/ 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 02:05:27 -0500 
From: David W Cheung <dwcheung@mindspring.com> 
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
 
Viper's nest was cool! 
They even tried to have a "Create the Villain" contest for the bad guy on 
the cover.  That fell through of course. 
It was the second edition, and it is still better than a lot of games.  :) 
BTW, I miss Mark Williams' art... 
 
At 02:08 PM 1/11/99 -0600, Rick Jones wrote: 
>Stainless Steel Rat wrote: 
>> I believe the first edition of the game came in a box.  I might be confused 
>> with the second edition, though. 
> 
>Yeah, the box had a blue cover with some flying energy projector on it. 
>The game book had the same art, but just in b&w.  It also came with 6  
>little black d6's, and I think a sample adventure called "Viper's Nest". 
> 
>--  
>Rick Jones      "'Come to the Bronze before it opens, or we make her our 
meal.'" 
>rick@blkbox.com "They're gonna' cook her dinner? Oh, pretend I didn't say 
that." 
>http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/  --Buffy & Xander,Buffy The Vampire Slayer 
> 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:43:11 -0000 
From: "Mr D P Blewer" <dpblewer@clara.net> 
Subject: [none] 
 
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------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 99 09:36:01  
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment 
 
On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:39:23 -0800 (PST), Wayne Shaw wrote: 
 
>>On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:42:28 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote: 
>> 
>>>I charge a silver per active point cost of an item for base magic item 
>>>value, but you know... few people sell items, cause they are like heirlooms 
>>>and treasures for anyone.  Especially the guy who spent XPS makin it. 
>> 
>>When it comes to magic items which involve investiture of CPs,  these 
>>are simply *never* made for cash. If the PC wants a wizard to make him 
>>a Ring of Invisibility, he'll have to trade another item for it or do 
>>the wizard a real big favour - a quest or other mission. 
> 
>Of course this assumes that there's no way around investing Character 
>Points.  In my last FH campaign, there were various exotic materials worth 
>the equivelent of some number of Character Points for purposes of magic item 
>construction; at that point it was possible to buy magic items either with a 
>lot of money or by procuring enough of one of these materials to both pay 
>for the item and provide a profit for the enchanter. 
 
This is the same idea in reverse - doing the questing up front. 
 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:22:40 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment 
 
>On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:39:23 -0800 (PST), Wayne Shaw wrote: 
> 
>>>On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:42:28 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote: 
>>> 
>>>>I charge a silver per active point cost of an item for base magic item 
>>>>value, but you know... few people sell items, cause they are like heirlooms 
>>>>and treasures for anyone.  Especially the guy who spent XPS makin it. 
>>> 
>>>When it comes to magic items which involve investiture of CPs,  these 
>>>are simply *never* made for cash. If the PC wants a wizard to make him 
>>>a Ring of Invisibility, he'll have to trade another item for it or do 
>>>the wizard a real big favour - a quest or other mission. 
>> 
>>Of course this assumes that there's no way around investing Character 
>>Points.  In my last FH campaign, there were various exotic materials worth 
>>the equivelent of some number of Character Points for purposes of magic item 
>>construction; at that point it was possible to buy magic items either with a 
>>lot of money or by procuring enough of one of these materials to both pay 
>>for the item and provide a profit for the enchanter. 
> 
>This is the same idea in reverse - doing the questing up front. 
 
Perhaps, but the players have a lot more control over the situation there; 
if they can find a way to get the materials another way, they can do it.  In 
addition, they could evaluate how much the enchanter might be ripping them 
off, since the enchanting materials had a 'market value' of sorts that mages 
in their own party could evaluate.  In addition, for small things the 
group's own mages could handle the enchantment themself and save money once 
they got the materials. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:43:15 -0500 
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com> 
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal 
 
> Steve Peterson, Hero Games 
> 
 
Uh, that's what I meant, ask Steve Peterson, Steve Peterson knows all, Steve 
Peterson sees all... 
 
(awkward pause) 
- -Miller 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:53:49 -0500 
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com> 
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal 
 
>I was checking out the Hero website and they mention an upcoming product 
>called 'The Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this is? Champions, 
>Fantasy Hero, sourcebook, adventure, whatever??? 
> 
 
<<It's actually a Champions adventure, set in the New Millennium universe, 
but 
really usable anywhere. With heavy mystical elements, as you might expect 
from 
the title. We expect to get the final in very soon...>> 
 
Umm... I hate to contradict the boss, but The Kandris Seal is a sourcebook 
for Champions, with a bunch of adventures and adventure seeds in it.  It was 
kept deliberately generic so that it can fit into any campaign, though there 
are references to the Champions Universe characters and organisations. 
 
Steve is right when he says there's heavy mystical elements.  Lots of magic 
and other neat stuff, if I do say so myself.  Anyone looking for a mystical 
EVO (Evil Villain Organisation) might find the book useful. 
 
If anyone has any questions, don't hesitate to drop me a line! 
 
 
Lisa Hartjes 
 
beren@unforgettable.com 
http://roswell.fortunecity.com/daniken/79 
ICQ:  Berengiere (9062561) 
 
"Klingons, demons, what's the difference?" 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:26:14 +0000 
From: Chris Hartjes <chris@ergmusic.com> 
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal 
 
Robert Bose wrote: 
>  
> I was checking out the Hero website and they mention an upcoming product 
> called 'The Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this is? Champions, 
> Fantasy Hero, sourcebook, adventure, whatever??? 
>  
> Rob Bose 
> rbose@arcane.com 
> http://www.arcane.com/press 
 
Well, as a *significant* contributor to The Kandris Seal I am in a 
position to tell you exactly what it is (and isn't) 
 
It is NOT a Fantasy Hero supplement, although it could be used in a 
Fantasy Hero setting. 
 
It is NOT set in the C:NM Universe, although it could be used in the 
C:NM Universe. 
 
The Kandris Seal IS a campaign supplement (at least Mr. Peterson was 
right on that account) that covers the mystical side of things, 
specifically the battle between Good and Chaos.  Very heavy-duty 
mystical stuff. 
 
This book grew out of stuff my sister and I had come up with in our own 
campaign world and it expanded out of control into a book. :)  If you 
are looking for a really cool (IMHO) mystical aspect to include in your 
games I think you will enjoy the book. 
 
Chris Hartjes 
Brother of Lisa Hartjes (author of The Kandris Seal) 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:04:06 -0500 (EST) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> 
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal 
 
I take it this a Fuzion-based book then? 
 
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com  
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html 
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:30:24 +0000 
From: Chris Hartjes <chris@ergmusic.com> 
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal 
 
Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>  
> I take it this a Fuzion-based book then? 
>  
> Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com 
> http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html 
> "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion 
 
It has the Fuzion stats for all the characters but is not a Fuzion-based 
book. 
 
Chris Hartjes 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:04:27 -0600 (CST) 
From: Rick Jones <rick@blkbox.com> 
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion 
 
Ronald A. Miller wrote: 
> Viper's Nest?  Can you give us a hint on what THAT was all about? 
 
It had Cheshire Cat, Bluejay and a bunch of Viper Goons. They were gonna 
steal some scientific gizmo from someone, I think.  
 
- --  
Rick Jones       "What are you saying?" 
rick@blkbox.com  "I'm not saying anything. I didn't say anything then, and 
                  I'm not saying anything now." 
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/  --Delenn & Dukhat, Babylon 5,In The Beginning 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:21:13 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful 
 
At 12:28 AM 1/12/99 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote: 
>In every game I run, at least one player tries to take the disadvantage: 
> 
>Vengeful, uncommon strong. 
> 
>I don't see this as limiting, just an excuse to act as the player would 
>any way.   
> 
>What does the list think? 
 
   Well, if the character really would seek vengeance whenever offended, 
then it's legitimate.  As written above, it should come into play at be at 
least a minor plot complication about once every four scenarios or so. 
   Try this test.  Let one of his Hunters show up and hurt him, his 
teammates, and/or his DNPCs.  Not just a minor injury; say, for example, 
that his mother gets hurt in the leg and the doctors aren't sure they're 
going to keep it. 
   At this, the character should go off half-cocked for revenge, to the 
point of endangering himself and possibly his teammates.  If he doesn't 
right away, remind the player of the Psych Limit.  If he still doesn't, 
then he has to spend the 5-10 experience points to reduce or eliminate it. 
   For that matter, a whole plot can be centered around this Psych Limit. 
For example, the write-up of COIL in Champions Presents #2 has them 
disguising their agents as VIPER agents and committing big crimes against 
the PCs, and vice versa; a PC with this Disadvantage would be less likely 
to see through the subterfuge and more likely to take a "smash VIPER" 
stance.  A similar plot could be hatched in the IMAGE-Genocide war (in 
fact, it's an even more likely tactic there). 
   The short form is: if you're not sure that the character is earning a 
Disadvantage, play it up for a session or two just to make certain. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
End of champ-l-digest V1 #130 
***************************** 


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