Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 130
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 11:35 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #130
champ-l-digest Tuesday, January 12 1999 Volume 01 : Number 130
In this issue:
Re: Paying for Equipment
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: Need help for character design
Re: Paying for Equipment
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: Maps To The Stars Homes...
Re: Paying for Equipment
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: Need help for character design
Re: Paying for Equipment
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
1st & 2nd Edition Hero (the boxed set questions)
Re: Hero Creator templates
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
The Kandris Seal
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: Need help for character design
Psych Lim:Vengeful
Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful
Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful
Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful
Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
[none]
Re: Paying for Equipment
Re: Paying for Equipment
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:40:04 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment
>On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:42:28 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>
>>I charge a silver per active point cost of an item for base magic item
>>value, but you know... few people sell items, cause they are like heirlooms
>>and treasures for anyone. Especially the guy who spent XPS makin it.
>
>When it comes to magic items which involve investiture of CPs, these
>are simply *never* made for cash. If the PC wants a wizard to make him
>a Ring of Invisibility, he'll have to trade another item for it or do
>the wizard a real big favour - a quest or other mission.
Of course this assumes that there's no way around investing Character
Points. In my last FH campaign, there were various exotic materials worth
the equivelent of some number of Character Points for purposes of magic item
construction; at that point it was possible to buy magic items either with a
lot of money or by procuring enough of one of these materials to both pay
for the item and provide a profit for the enchanter.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:18:28 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
At 01:43 PM 1/11/99 -0600, gilberg@ou.edu wrote:
>
>>g> Box? What box?
>>
>>I believe the first edition of the game came in a box. I might be confused
>>with the second edition, though.
>
> I have no clue myself. I just considered the book a good find.
>Anyone who can clue us in?
My recollection is that the boxed set was a 2nd edition item, identical
in most ways to the stand-alone version except that the cover was
black-and-white (like the 1st edition, except that the book itself was
still the 2nd edition).
The set (IIRC) included a GM's screen, a hex map, three itty-bitty dice
(which I ended up using for "half dice" in Killing Attacks and such), and
maybe an additional book like an adventure module or something.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:51:36 -0500
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
>>Did if have the box?
>
> Box? What box?
>
>
> -Tim Gilberg
The box with three 6-sided die, the rules, a hex map and ordering info (the
complimentary catalogue). The Box had a colored picture of the 1st ed. b&w
cover, if I remember right.
- -Miller
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:03:44 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre wrote:
>
> At 13:43 -0600 1/11/99, gilberg@ou.edu wrote:
> >>g> Box? What box?
> >>
> >>I believe the first edition of the game came in a box. I might be confused
> >>with the second edition, though.
> >
> > I have no clue myself. I just considered the book a good find.
> >Anyone who can clue us in?
> >
>
> The oldest edition I have -- sent to me by Scott Heine, I think I was eight
> when the first edition came out! -- is a boxed set. I was pretty sure that
> was the first, although now I'm wondering.
If my senilty isn't getting it wrong. I think there was an edition that was
just before the boxed set. The boxed set was the first copy I picked up, but
there was something before it. I think it was the book that was inside the
box,
but in color. I might be able to check it out tonight.
- -Mark Lemming
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:54:45 -0500
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
>The game book had the same art, but just in b&w. It also came with 6
>little black d6's, and I think a sample adventure called "Viper's Nest".
I'm praying that that was a re-release, otherwise I got ripped off back
then, grrrrrrr (turning green). You got three more dice!!!!! Drat.
Viper's Nest? Can you give us a hint on what THAT was all about?
- -Miller
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:43:11 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Need help for character design
>
>>>I'm trying to design a villianess named Contagion. Her primary power is that
>>>she can change the genetic structure of anyone she an touch, inducing powers
>>>(and a grotesqupe mutanted appearance). She can tailor these powers and the
>>>longer seh touches her target, the more extenive changes she can make. Any
>>>suggestions?
>>
>>There is no particularly good way to do this in the Hero System, because it
>>adds up to a massive infusion of points. As close to any rule really
>>permitting it, it's a Transform. I think I'd personally link it to a Summon
>>of appropriate size and call it good.
>
> Not at all. Transform (Major) will do it just fine. Cumulative, of
>course, based on the "longer she touches" thing. Remember, Transform has
>nothing disallowing the adding of powers. Just make sure you have GM
>permission. As you are the GM. . . .
It's also considered a dubious operation even by the designers of the game.
Personally, I dislike giving powers to NPCs I'd forbid to a PC, and I'd
certainly not allow a PC to power people up just with a Transform. If it
really is just a plot device, then there's no reason to build it as a power
at all.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:08:18 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment
[snip snip snip]
>>When it comes to magic items which involve investiture of CPs, these
>>are simply *never* made for cash.
>
>Of course this assumes that there's no way around investing Character
>Points.
It also assumes that the amount of cash could not be worth the points. If
the Filthy Rich king wants a magic item, it may very well cost him a large
portion of his wealth to get it, effectively transfering the perk (or some
portion of it) to the creating character.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:38:45 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
>> I believe the first edition of the game came in a box. I might be confused
>> with the second edition, though.
>
>Yeah, the box had a blue cover with some flying energy projector on it.
>The game book had the same art, but just in b&w. It also came with 6
>little black d6's, and I think a sample adventure called "Viper's Nest".
thats second edition. First edition was really crappy, very very low tech,
cheezy art, stapled together
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:55:34 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Maps To The Stars Homes...
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com>
>Greetings!
>
> I need some information on an RPG called (I think) "Universe". It had
a
>ponderous character generation system and it was practically impossible to
>play, BUT...
>
> It had MARVELOUS rules for designing stellar systems and a
poster-sized
>star map with the Earth-Sol system at the center and X-Y-Z coordinates for
all
>the stellar systems within a certain distance of Earth. By plugging the
X-Y-Z
>coordinates into an equation, you could tell the distance between any two
>stars on the map.
I don't know that one, but there was a "Traveler 2300" (or something
similar) which had a similar star map and a list of all stars with XYZ
coordinates. I found it invaluable when I was running my first SF campaign,
as it allowed me to know, not only what was near Earth, but calculate the
general stellar density of Sol-type stars to the other types.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:23:32 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment
>>>I charge a silver per active point cost of an item for base magic item
>>>value, but you know... few people sell items, cause they are like heirlooms
>>>and treasures for anyone. Especially the guy who spent XPS makin it.
>>
>>When it comes to magic items which involve investiture of CPs, these
>>are simply *never* made for cash. If the PC wants a wizard to make him
>>a Ring of Invisibility, he'll have to trade another item for it or do
>>the wizard a real big favour - a quest or other mission.
>
>Of course this assumes that there's no way around investing Character
>Points. In my last FH campaign, there were various exotic materials worth
>the equivelent of some number of Character Points for purposes of magic item
>construction; at that point it was possible to buy magic items either with a
>lot of money or by procuring enough of one of these materials to both pay
>for the item and provide a profit for the enchanter.
Seems like a lot of us do that, although I always charge SOME xps to make
an item, I like em rare and dear to the guys who make them.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:35:16 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Ronald A. Miller wrote:
>
> >The game book had the same art, but just in b&w. It also came with 6
> >little black d6's, and I think a sample adventure called "Viper's Nest".
>
> I'm praying that that was a re-release, otherwise I got ripped off back
> then, grrrrrrr (turning green). You got three more dice!!!!! Drat.
>
> Viper's Nest? Can you give us a hint on what THAT was all about?
I wasn't sure about the dice. At either Pacificon or DunDraCon, Hero was
selling those dice at I think $1 a handfull. With size 15 feet, my hands
are in proportion. I think it worked out to around 100 dice per scoop for
my groups dice box.
- -Mark Lemming
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:56:23 -0500
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: Need help for character design
>> Not at all. Transform (Major) will do it just fine. Cumulative, of
>>course, based on the "longer she touches" thing. Remember, Transform has
>>nothing disallowing the adding of powers. Just make sure you have GM
>>permission. As you are the GM. . . .
>
>It's also considered a dubious operation even by the designers of the game.
>Personally, I dislike giving powers to NPCs I'd forbid to a PC, and I'd
>certainly not allow a PC to power people up just with a Transform. If it
>really is just a plot device, then there's no reason to build it as a power
>at all.
>
>
I think I am going to go with the Summon and Tranform options that were
suggested. They seem to be the closet in effect to what I was looking for.
By getting several "summons" each with more extra time, I get get across the
"more time, more power" effect. If I can get it to work, I may post the
character to the list if anyone is interested.
Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions and for that matter, keep 'em
coming. :)
Oh! Its all hot and sticky.
Is this blood? Nice....
Lillith-Darkstalkers 3
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:50:24 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment
>Seems like a lot of us do that, although I always charge SOME xps to make
>an item, I like em rare and dear to the guys who make them.
I didn't, because the world background made enchanted items _comparitively_
common; there were people who made their living off of enchanting, and a
character point cost would have made that impossible.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:01:06 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@usa.net>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
From: Rick Jones <rick@blkbox.com>
>Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>> I believe the first edition of the game came in a box. I might be
confused
>> with the second edition, though.
>
>Yeah, the box had a blue cover with some flying energy projector on it.
>The game book had the same art, but just in b&w. It also came with 6
>little black d6's, and I think a sample adventure called "Viper's Nest".
>
I had that one at one time. It was definitely _second_ edition, however.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:06:31 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: 1st & 2nd Edition Hero (the boxed set questions)
I have the boxed set in front of me as I write this.
On the bottom of the box, in the upper left-hand corner, it says "2nd
Edition *Revised*" and one edge of the box gives the product number as
HER001-B (rather than HER001). That seems pretty clear.
Contents of the box are listed as:
* 80 page CHAMPIONS book
* 16 page VIPER'S NEST scenario
* Character sheets
* 17" x 22" street map
* Six dice
* Hours of fun!
The 80-page book currently in the box may or may not be the one that
originally came with the box, but the cover art for this boox and the box
are identical, and both in color. The book's dedication reads "The 2nd
Edition of CHAMPIONS is dedicated to the following people: <list of
names>". Note that this is *not* Champions II (HER008), which is also an
80-page book, and the one I think is most frequently associated with the
game's 2nd Edition.
VIPER'S NEST is a scenario involving three encounters with VIPER. George
MacDonald wrote it. Included are writeups for UNTIL agents, VIPER agents,
the VIPER nest leader, Bluejay, Brick and Cheshire Cat.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:06:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Creator templates
Greetings!
- ---Guy Hoyle <ghoyle1@airmail.net> wrote:
>
> In Hero Creator, you can save a character sheet as a "character template".
> What's the advantage of doing so?
>
Guy, I don't have Hero Creator (money is tight right now) but, if I
understand the concept correctly, templates would be used for mass character
generation. For instance, you design one agent of evil, save the sheet as a
template, and just make minor changes to that template for each additional AofE.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.
Dale A. Ward
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:00:53 -0800 (PST)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
- ---Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <scm@mactyre.net> wrote:
>
> At 13:43 -0600 1/11/99, gilberg@ou.edu wrote:
> >>g> Box? What box?
> >>
> >>I believe the first edition of the game came in a box. I might be
confused
> >>with the second edition, though.
> >
> > I have no clue myself. I just considered the book a good
find.
> >Anyone who can clue us in?
> >
>
> The oldest edition I have -- sent to me by Scott Heine, I think I
was eight
> when the first edition came out! -- is a boxed set. I was pretty
sure that
> was the first, although now I'm wondering.
Well, I suddenly feel very old. Thank you very much.....
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:45:18 -0700
From: "Robert Bose" <rbose@arcane.com>
Subject: The Kandris Seal
I was checking out the Hero website and they mention an upcoming product
called 'The Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this is? Champions,
Fantasy Hero, sourcebook, adventure, whatever???
Rob Bose
rbose@arcane.com
http://www.arcane.com/press
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:45:59 -0800
From: Shelley Chrystal Mactyre <scm@mactyre.net>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
At 05:00 PM 1/11/99 -0800, John Desmarais wrote:
>> The oldest edition I have -- sent to me by Scott Heine, I think I
>was eight
>> when the first edition came out! -- is a boxed set. I was pretty
>sure that
>> was the first, although now I'm wondering.
>
>Well, I suddenly feel very old. Thank you very much.....
My work here is done.....
....I do the same thing to my husband (who is 36), if it makes anyone feel
better.
Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
http://www.mactyre.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:39:14 -0500
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
Rob Bose sez:
>I was checking out the Hero website and they mention an upcoming product
>called 'The Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this is? Champions,
>Fantasy Hero, sourcebook, adventure, whatever???
Miller sez:
Ask Bruce, Bruce knows all, Bruce sees all...
brucehh@earthlink.net I think.
It's on the HERO page, I'm sure you already know...
BTW nice work on the FH pages, they're always a good read :)
- -Miller
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:12:13 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
At 06:45 PM 1/11/99 -0700, Robert Bose wrote:
>I was checking out the Hero website and they mention an upcoming product
>called 'The Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this is? Champions,
>Fantasy Hero, sourcebook, adventure, whatever???
It's a Fantasy Hero setting if I recall correctly. It also seems to me
that the author has been on this list in the past, though that may have
changed.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:21:51 -0600 (CST)
From: gilberg@ou.edu
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
>>> I believe the first edition of the game came in a box. I might be confused
>>> with the second edition, though.
>>
>>Yeah, the box had a blue cover with some flying energy projector on it.
>>The game book had the same art, but just in b&w. It also came with 6
>>little black d6's, and I think a sample adventure called "Viper's Nest".
>
>thats second edition. First edition was really crappy, very very low tech,
>cheezy art, stapled together
Sounds like what I got.
-Tim Gilberg
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:16:03 -0600 (CST)
From: gilberg@ou.edu
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
>>>I believe the first edition of the game came in a box. I might be confused
>>>with the second edition, though.
>>
>> I have no clue myself. I just considered the book a good find.
>>Anyone who can clue us in?
>>
>
>The oldest edition I have -- sent to me by Scott Heine, I think I was eight
>when the first edition came out! -- is a boxed set. I was pretty sure that
>was the first, although now I'm wondering.
Well, it's quite possible that I only got the book from a boxed set.
I do know that the book says 1st edition and has a 1981 date.
-Tim Gilberg
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:12:39 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
>From: rbose@arcane.com (Robert Bose)
>>I was checking out the Hero website and they
>> mention an upcoming product called 'The
>> Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this
>> is? Champions, Fantasy Hero, sourcebook,
>> adventure, whatever???
Dunno--but it definitely has the eu-de-FANTASY HERO to it.....
"It's almost Dante's Inferno, except the beer was cheaper in Hell, and
the damned were smarter than this crowd."
--Evan Dorkin, DORK #2
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:21:19 -0600 (CST)
From: gilberg@ou.edu
Subject: Re: Need help for character design
Not at all. Transform (Major) will do it just fine. Cumulative, of
>>course, based on the "longer she touches" thing. Remember, Transform has
>>nothing disallowing the adding of powers. Just make sure you have GM
>>permission. As you are the GM. . . .
>
>It's also considered a dubious operation even by the designers of the game.
Not so much dubious as potentially balance-threatening, but yeah.
However, not allowing such to occur needlessly hinders the game system. It
is best as is--allow it, but with strict controls.
>Personally, I dislike giving powers to NPCs I'd forbid to a PC, and I'd
I don't. I can think of interesting 1-dimensional constructs with
huge attacks or defenses or whatnot that just wouldn't work as PCs. They
still have a place in a game world, however.
>certainly not allow a PC to power people up just with a Transform.
I possibly would if the player had a kick-ass conception and I knew
he or she was mature enough to handle this power.
>If it
>really is just a plot device, then there's no reason to build it as a power
>at all.
I've never found this particular sour grapes argument at all satisfying.
-Tim Gilberg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:28:02 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Psych Lim:Vengeful
In every game I run, at least one player tries to take the disadvantage:
Vengeful, uncommon strong.
I don't see this as limiting, just an excuse to act as the player would
any way.
What does the list think?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would
think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying
'My mother, drunk or sober.'"
G.K. Chesterton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:20:32 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful
>In every game I run, at least one player tries to take the disadvantage:
>
>Vengeful, uncommon strong.
>
>I don't see this as limiting, just an excuse to act as the player would
>any way.
>
>What does the list think?
Like Enraged, it can indeed be limiting, because it means the player will
sometimes pursue his vengence even when it's obviously a Really Bad Idea.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:36:32 EST
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
In a message dated 1/11/99 6:09:41 PM, rbose@arcane.com writes:
>I was checking out the Hero website and they mention an upcoming product
>called 'The Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this is? Champions,
>Fantasy Hero, sourcebook, adventure, whatever???
>
It's actually a Champions adventure, set in the New Millennium universe, but
really usable anywhere. With heavy mystical elements, as you might expect from
the title. We expect to get the final in very soon...
— Steve Peterson, Hero Games
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:07:30 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful
>>In every game I run, at least one player tries to take the disadvantage:
>>
>>Vengeful, uncommon strong.
>>
>>I don't see this as limiting, just an excuse to act as the player would
>>any way.
>>
>>What does the list think?
>
>Well, I only had one player do this, and he certainly lived up to it! In
>real life as well as in the game! So I guess you could say it was only
>appropriate. (He was a twit and a loser anyway. I wasn't sad at all to see
>his first two characters go up in blazes of glory due to his own stupidity.
>He never learned either. Sigh)
Not exactly a glowing recommendation for the limitation!
In what way did you find that it limited your twit player?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would
think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying
'My mother, drunk or sober.'"
G.K. Chesterton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:04:20 -0600
From: "Logan D." <logand@cyberramp.net>
Subject: Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful
- -----Original Message-----
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
To: champs-l@sysabend.org <champs-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 11:54 PM
Subject: Psych Lim:Vengeful
>In every game I run, at least one player tries to take the disadvantage:
>
>Vengeful, uncommon strong.
>
>I don't see this as limiting, just an excuse to act as the player would
>any way.
>
>What does the list think?
Well, I only had one player do this, and he certainly lived up to it! In
real life as well as in the game! So I guess you could say it was only
appropriate. (He was a twit and a loser anyway. I wasn't sad at all to see
his first two characters go up in blazes of glory due to his own stupidity.
He never learned either. Sigh)
- -Logan
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable
game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective
of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex
version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite
stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who
_smiles all the time_."
-Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett
_Good Omens_
*i.e., everybody.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
web page: http://www.cyberramp.net/~logand/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:18:25 -0500
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful
At 12:28 AM 1/12/99 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>In every game I run, at least one player tries to take the disadvantage:
>
>Vengeful, uncommon strong.
>
>I don't see this as limiting, just an excuse to act as the player would
>any way.
>
>What does the list think?
>
It can be used against the character with it. Vengeful means the character
will go out of his way for revenge. Pursing enemies off the feild (to be
lead into a trap) for example. Vengence can cloud judgement. Set up
"enemies" for the character with very public and respected positions,
powerful minions or both. Once the charcter vengeful nature is known, he an
be manipulated, distracted and made to look bad in a variety of ways.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would
>think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying
>'My mother, drunk or sober.'"
> G.K. Chesterton
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Scott C. Nolan
>nolan@erols.com
>
>
Oh! Its all hot and sticky.
Is this blood? Nice....
Lillith-Darkstalkers 3
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:56:40 -0600
From: "Logan D." <logand@cyberramp.net>
Subject: Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful
- -----Original Message-----
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
To: champs-l@sysabend.org <champs-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful
>>>In every game I run, at least one player tries to take the disadvantage:
>>>
>>>Vengeful, uncommon strong.
>>>
>>>I don't see this as limiting, just an excuse to act as the player would
>>>any way.
>>>
>>>What does the list think?
>>
>>Well, I only had one player do this, and he certainly lived up to it! In
>>real life as well as in the game! So I guess you could say it was only
>>appropriate. (He was a twit and a loser anyway. I wasn't sad at all to see
>>his first two characters go up in blazes of glory due to his own
stupidity.
>>He never learned either. Sigh)
>
>Not exactly a glowing recommendation for the limitation!
>
>In what way did you find that it limited your twit player?
(LOL) It _didn't_ !! That was the problem! It fit right in with what you
might call his _real life_ psych lims! So he was doing in the game what he
wanted to do in real life and _couldn't get away with_ !! He honestly made
me nervous at times. I'm glad I'm not playing in that circle of gamers
anymore.
- -Logan
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable
game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective
of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex
version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite
stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who
_smiles all the time_."
-Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett
_Good Omens_
*i.e., everybody.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
web page: http://www.cyberramp.net/~logand/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 02:05:27 -0500
From: David W Cheung <dwcheung@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Viper's nest was cool!
They even tried to have a "Create the Villain" contest for the bad guy on
the cover. That fell through of course.
It was the second edition, and it is still better than a lot of games. :)
BTW, I miss Mark Williams' art...
At 02:08 PM 1/11/99 -0600, Rick Jones wrote:
>Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>> I believe the first edition of the game came in a box. I might be confused
>> with the second edition, though.
>
>Yeah, the box had a blue cover with some flying energy projector on it.
>The game book had the same art, but just in b&w. It also came with 6
>little black d6's, and I think a sample adventure called "Viper's Nest".
>
>--
>Rick Jones "'Come to the Bronze before it opens, or we make her our
meal.'"
>rick@blkbox.com "They're gonna' cook her dinner? Oh, pretend I didn't say
that."
>http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/ --Buffy & Xander,Buffy The Vampire Slayer
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:43:11 -0000
From: "Mr D P Blewer" <dpblewer@clara.net>
Subject: [none]
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 99 09:36:01
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment
On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:39:23 -0800 (PST), Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:42:28 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>>
>>>I charge a silver per active point cost of an item for base magic item
>>>value, but you know... few people sell items, cause they are like heirlooms
>>>and treasures for anyone. Especially the guy who spent XPS makin it.
>>
>>When it comes to magic items which involve investiture of CPs, these
>>are simply *never* made for cash. If the PC wants a wizard to make him
>>a Ring of Invisibility, he'll have to trade another item for it or do
>>the wizard a real big favour - a quest or other mission.
>
>Of course this assumes that there's no way around investing Character
>Points. In my last FH campaign, there were various exotic materials worth
>the equivelent of some number of Character Points for purposes of magic item
>construction; at that point it was possible to buy magic items either with a
>lot of money or by procuring enough of one of these materials to both pay
>for the item and provide a profit for the enchanter.
This is the same idea in reverse - doing the questing up front.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:22:40 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment
>On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:39:23 -0800 (PST), Wayne Shaw wrote:
>
>>>On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:42:28 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>>>
>>>>I charge a silver per active point cost of an item for base magic item
>>>>value, but you know... few people sell items, cause they are like heirlooms
>>>>and treasures for anyone. Especially the guy who spent XPS makin it.
>>>
>>>When it comes to magic items which involve investiture of CPs, these
>>>are simply *never* made for cash. If the PC wants a wizard to make him
>>>a Ring of Invisibility, he'll have to trade another item for it or do
>>>the wizard a real big favour - a quest or other mission.
>>
>>Of course this assumes that there's no way around investing Character
>>Points. In my last FH campaign, there were various exotic materials worth
>>the equivelent of some number of Character Points for purposes of magic item
>>construction; at that point it was possible to buy magic items either with a
>>lot of money or by procuring enough of one of these materials to both pay
>>for the item and provide a profit for the enchanter.
>
>This is the same idea in reverse - doing the questing up front.
Perhaps, but the players have a lot more control over the situation there;
if they can find a way to get the materials another way, they can do it. In
addition, they could evaluate how much the enchanter might be ripping them
off, since the enchanting materials had a 'market value' of sorts that mages
in their own party could evaluate. In addition, for small things the
group's own mages could handle the enchantment themself and save money once
they got the materials.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:43:15 -0500
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
>— Steve Peterson, Hero Games
>
Uh, that's what I meant, ask Steve Peterson, Steve Peterson knows all, Steve
Peterson sees all...
(awkward pause)
- -Miller
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:53:49 -0500
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
>I was checking out the Hero website and they mention an upcoming product
>called 'The Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this is? Champions,
>Fantasy Hero, sourcebook, adventure, whatever???
>
<<It's actually a Champions adventure, set in the New Millennium universe,
but
really usable anywhere. With heavy mystical elements, as you might expect
from
the title. We expect to get the final in very soon...>>
Umm... I hate to contradict the boss, but The Kandris Seal is a sourcebook
for Champions, with a bunch of adventures and adventure seeds in it. It was
kept deliberately generic so that it can fit into any campaign, though there
are references to the Champions Universe characters and organisations.
Steve is right when he says there's heavy mystical elements. Lots of magic
and other neat stuff, if I do say so myself. Anyone looking for a mystical
EVO (Evil Villain Organisation) might find the book useful.
If anyone has any questions, don't hesitate to drop me a line!
Lisa Hartjes
beren@unforgettable.com
http://roswell.fortunecity.com/daniken/79
ICQ: Berengiere (9062561)
"Klingons, demons, what's the difference?"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:26:14 +0000
From: Chris Hartjes <chris@ergmusic.com>
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
Robert Bose wrote:
>
> I was checking out the Hero website and they mention an upcoming product
> called 'The Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this is? Champions,
> Fantasy Hero, sourcebook, adventure, whatever???
>
> Rob Bose
> rbose@arcane.com
> http://www.arcane.com/press
Well, as a *significant* contributor to The Kandris Seal I am in a
position to tell you exactly what it is (and isn't)
It is NOT a Fantasy Hero supplement, although it could be used in a
Fantasy Hero setting.
It is NOT set in the C:NM Universe, although it could be used in the
C:NM Universe.
The Kandris Seal IS a campaign supplement (at least Mr. Peterson was
right on that account) that covers the mystical side of things,
specifically the battle between Good and Chaos. Very heavy-duty
mystical stuff.
This book grew out of stuff my sister and I had come up with in our own
campaign world and it expanded out of control into a book. :) If you
are looking for a really cool (IMHO) mystical aspect to include in your
games I think you will enjoy the book.
Chris Hartjes
Brother of Lisa Hartjes (author of The Kandris Seal)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:04:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
I take it this a Fuzion-based book then?
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:30:24 +0000
From: Chris Hartjes <chris@ergmusic.com>
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> I take it this a Fuzion-based book then?
>
> Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
> http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
> "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
It has the Fuzion stats for all the characters but is not a Fuzion-based
book.
Chris Hartjes
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:04:27 -0600 (CST)
From: Rick Jones <rick@blkbox.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Ronald A. Miller wrote:
> Viper's Nest? Can you give us a hint on what THAT was all about?
It had Cheshire Cat, Bluejay and a bunch of Viper Goons. They were gonna
steal some scientific gizmo from someone, I think.
- --
Rick Jones "What are you saying?"
rick@blkbox.com "I'm not saying anything. I didn't say anything then, and
I'm not saying anything now."
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/ --Delenn & Dukhat, Babylon 5,In The Beginning
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:21:13 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Psych Lim:Vengeful
At 12:28 AM 1/12/99 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>In every game I run, at least one player tries to take the disadvantage:
>
>Vengeful, uncommon strong.
>
>I don't see this as limiting, just an excuse to act as the player would
>any way.
>
>What does the list think?
Well, if the character really would seek vengeance whenever offended,
then it's legitimate. As written above, it should come into play at be at
least a minor plot complication about once every four scenarios or so.
Try this test. Let one of his Hunters show up and hurt him, his
teammates, and/or his DNPCs. Not just a minor injury; say, for example,
that his mother gets hurt in the leg and the doctors aren't sure they're
going to keep it.
At this, the character should go off half-cocked for revenge, to the
point of endangering himself and possibly his teammates. If he doesn't
right away, remind the player of the Psych Limit. If he still doesn't,
then he has to spend the 5-10 experience points to reduce or eliminate it.
For that matter, a whole plot can be centered around this Psych Limit.
For example, the write-up of COIL in Champions Presents #2 has them
disguising their agents as VIPER agents and committing big crimes against
the PCs, and vice versa; a PC with this Disadvantage would be less likely
to see through the subterfuge and more likely to take a "smash VIPER"
stance. A similar plot could be hatched in the IMAGE-Genocide war (in
fact, it's an even more likely tactic there).
The short form is: if you're not sure that the character is earning a
Disadvantage, play it up for a session or two just to make certain.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #130
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