Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 131
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 10:05 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #131
champ-l-digest Wednesday, January 13 1999 Volume 01 : Number 131
In this issue:
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: Paying for Equipment
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
The Terminus Faction
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Champions 1st thru 4th Eds.
Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Re: Champions 1st thru 4th Eds.
Re: The Terminus Faction
Re: The Kandris Seal
Re: Champions 1st thru 4th Eds.
Re: Champions 1st thru 4th Eds.
I've been away
Highland Immortality
Area Effect Question
Re: Highland Immortality
Re: Champions 1st thru 4th Eds.
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Highland Immortality
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Champions 1st thru 4th Eds.
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Highland Immortality
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:57:38 EST
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
Well, Bruce told me it was heavy on the adventures, which is a Good Thing as
far as I'm concerned; we haven't done enough of that lately. Not having seen
the manuscript myself yet, I've been going from what Bruce has told me: Which
is that the book has connections with the New Millennium universe but can
easily fit into any campaign.
Like all our supplements nowadays, it will have both Hero System and Fuzion
stats.
And it's nearing completion... that's about all I know.
— Steve Peterson, Hero Games
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:10:59 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
At 10:04 AM 1/12/99 -0600, you wrote:
>Ronald A. Miller wrote:
>> Viper's Nest? Can you give us a hint on what THAT was all about?
>
>It had Cheshire Cat, Bluejay and a bunch of Viper Goons. They were gonna
>steal some scientific gizmo from someone, I think.
If you get the new Viper sourcebook, it is written up in the scenarios
section, with a new chapter added. It included Combat in Christopher Park
and some other stuff, was pretty good, although the new write up was much
better.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 99 18:14:42
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment
On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:22:40 -0800 (PST), Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:39:23 -0800 (PST), Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>
>>>>On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:42:28 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I charge a silver per active point cost of an item for base magic item
>>>>>value, but you know... few people sell items, cause they are like heirlooms
>>>>>and treasures for anyone. Especially the guy who spent XPS makin it.
>>>>
>>>>When it comes to magic items which involve investiture of CPs, these
>>>>are simply *never* made for cash. If the PC wants a wizard to make him
>>>>a Ring of Invisibility, he'll have to trade another item for it or do
>>>>the wizard a real big favour - a quest or other mission.
>>>
>>>Of course this assumes that there's no way around investing Character
>>>Points. In my last FH campaign, there were various exotic materials worth
>>>the equivelent of some number of Character Points for purposes of magic item
>>>construction; at that point it was possible to buy magic items either with a
>>>lot of money or by procuring enough of one of these materials to both pay
>>>for the item and provide a profit for the enchanter.
>>
>>This is the same idea in reverse - doing the questing up front.
>
>Perhaps, but the players have a lot more control over the situation there;
>if they can find a way to get the materials another way, they can do it. In
>addition, they could evaluate how much the enchanter might be ripping them
>off, since the enchanting materials had a 'market value' of sorts that mages
>in their own party could evaluate. In addition, for small things the
>group's own mages could handle the enchantment themself and save money once
>they got the materials.
All very true
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:05:16 -0600 (CST)
From: gilberg@ou.edu
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
>>It had Cheshire Cat, Bluejay and a bunch of Viper Goons. They were gonna
>>steal some scientific gizmo from someone, I think.
>
>If you get the new Viper sourcebook, it is written up in the scenarios
>section, with a new chapter added. It included Combat in Christopher Park
>and some other stuff, was pretty good, although the new write up was much
>better.
Didn't it make an appearance in the 3rd and 4th edition Champions
books as well?
-Tim Gilberg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:32:04 -0500
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
>I was checking out the Hero website and they mention an upcoming product
>called 'The Kandris Seal.' Anyone have a clue what this is? Champions,
>Fantasy Hero, sourcebook, adventure, whatever???
<< It's a Fantasy Hero setting if I recall correctly. It also seems to me
that the author has been on this list in the past, though that may have
changed.>
I'm still here and, as my brother pointed out, the book is a Hero System
sourcebook. It was designed for "standard" superhero games, but has info on
how to use it at various point levels as well as other genres, including
Dark Champions and Horror Hero. I do have to say that it really isn't
easily usable in Fantasy Hero, but it can be adapted with some effort.
Lisa
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:34:12 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
At 02:32 PM 1/12/99 -0500, Lisa Hartjes wrote:
><< It's a Fantasy Hero setting if I recall correctly. It also seems to me
>that the author has been on this list in the past, though that may have
>changed.>
>
>I'm still here and, as my brother pointed out, the book is a Hero System
>sourcebook. It was designed for "standard" superhero games, but has info on
>how to use it at various point levels as well as other genres, including
>Dark Champions and Horror Hero. I do have to say that it really isn't
>easily usable in Fantasy Hero, but it can be adapted with some effort.
Yeah, I was going there on the best that I could remember, and only
because I wasn't sure that the author was around to speak up (I wasn't
connecting the book with you by name).
I'm looking forward to buying this book. My campaign doesn't generally
have a mystic bent to it, but I'm looking toward going through some
mystical adventures at some time in the future, and I think this will be
very helpful.
(Of course, I'm also looking forward to any and all Ultimate books that
come around -- The Ultimate Vehicle of course, The Ultimate Speedster as
announced a few weeks ago, the recently-announced Ultimate Shape Changer,
and whatever else may be in the works.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:19:57 -0500
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
>Actualy he's the biggest fount of misinformation there, or lack of it. he
>may know what it is but i bet you dollars to donuts he couldn't tell you
>when it was going to be released, page count, etc....
Shhh, he might be listening and pull the plug on the whole operation!!!
Miller
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:11:22 -0500
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Oh, "Christopher Park" really rang a bell...
Wasn't that part of the 3rd edition scenarios at the end of the book?
OK, lets get this straight:
1st Ed, two flying combatants, one has a Ceylon-esque helmet, b&w
2nd Ed, that generic white circle hero and swingy-guy and flame girl, right?
or was this the 3rd Ed? and the 2nd Ed was 1st Ed in color?
3rd Ed, drawing a blank
4th Ed, the beloved BBB
Right? (whew)
Miller
- -----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
To: Rick Jones <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
>At 10:04 AM 1/12/99 -0600, you wrote:
>>Ronald A. Miller wrote:
>>> Viper's Nest? Can you give us a hint on what THAT was all about?
>>
>>It had Cheshire Cat, Bluejay and a bunch of Viper Goons. They were gonna
>>steal some scientific gizmo from someone, I think.
>
>If you get the new Viper sourcebook, it is written up in the scenarios
>section, with a new chapter added. It included Combat in Christopher Park
>and some other stuff, was pretty good, although the new write up was much
>better.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
>Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:17:07 -0500
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com>
Subject: The Terminus Faction
Here's a premise I cooked up. I thought it was original, but doesn't is
smack of "Strikeforce Morituri" (ca. 1990 by Marvel)? I couldn't have been
the only one to read that piece of laborious fiction. Let me know what you
think.
- -Miller
The Terminus Faction
A HERO Team Guide for a Parellel Universe
Terminus Faction draws it's premise on the following:
Superheroes exist, but should one recieve super powers, they pay with
an increased metabolism. While this increased metabolism may be beneficial, it
rapidly kills the bearer. In short, Superheroes may live no longer than five
full years once their powers reveal themselves. If you have players who can't
run the same superhero for more than a month without creating a new one, then
TF is perfect for your group.
Vector:
A major pharmaceutical company (MetaChem Pharmaceuticals) has developed
a treatment to expand the horizons of the human body. The effect, called
"SuperNova", unlocks previously "useless" genes in the human genome for
spectacular effects. The manifestation of such an unlocking varies by the
individual and seemingly there is no limit.
ENHANCERS:
Currently, in game time, only soldiers are allowed to go under the SuperNova
program. Each character should start with a military package deal of some kind.
SuperNova is only for the rich and powerful.
A stolen load of SuperNova packets has been stolen and sold on the blackmarket,
where they end up is up to the GM. This allows any and Everyman to have
access to superpowers.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:18:33 -0800
From: Scott Bennie <sbennie@dowco.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
> If you get the new Viper sourcebook, it is written up in the scenarios
> section, with a new chapter added. It included Combat in Christopher Park
> and some other stuff, was pretty good, although the new write up was much
> better.
VIPER wouldn't have been VIPER without the inclusion of "VIPER's Nest". The
new write-up should be pretty close to the old one, except for some of the
framing sequences. "Memories" and "I Love A Parade" were added, and "Microfilm
Madness" was restored, (it was originally part of "VIPER's Nest" but was cut
for space reasons; eventually it was published in Space Gamer). The only other
major change was that the nest in "Doomsday" was changed from three levels to
two levels at George's request.
I always liked the scenario; it was the first that I ran my longest running PC
through.
Scott Bennie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:01:03 -0800
From: Kirk Lund <klund@technologist.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
My first Champs game was 2nd Ed... It basically fits Damon's and
Filksinger's descriptions, except the book was a b&w version of the
color image on the box. It's possible that later "printings" of the 2nd
Ed. had a color rule book. The image was a villain with some sort
of "Cylon helmet" looking visor. As mentioned before, there was a
contest in the pages of AC inviting readers to submit a write-up for
this character. I named my version "Holocaust", but I doubt that my
write-up was very good as I was 12 at the time.
3rd Ed. was the "swingy-guy and flame girl".
I believe there was a book between this 2nd Ed. boxed set and the
3rd Ed. perfect-bound book. This book had a color cover identical
to the 2nd Ed. cover, but I remember that the character images on
the character sheets (stapled into the middle of the book) were
completely different (done by "Witherby" instead of Mark Williams).
Perhaps those images are the ones that finally made it into the 3rd
Ed. book.
Incidentally I've seen "Witherby's" art in comics during the last few
years. I think he started out as an inker for Plasm.
- --Kirk
At 05:11 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Oh, "Christopher Park" really rang a bell...
>Wasn't that part of the 3rd edition scenarios at the end of the book?
>
>OK, lets get this straight:
>1st Ed, two flying combatants, one has a Ceylon-esque helmet, b&w
>2nd Ed, that generic white circle hero and swingy-guy and flame girl, right?
>or was this the 3rd Ed? and the 2nd Ed was 1st Ed in color?
>3rd Ed, drawing a blank
>4th Ed, the beloved BBB
>
>Right? (whew)
>Miller
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
>To: Rick Jones <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 1:58 PM
>Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
>
>
>>At 10:04 AM 1/12/99 -0600, you wrote:
>>>Ronald A. Miller wrote:
>>>> Viper's Nest? Can you give us a hint on what THAT was all about?
>>>
>>>It had Cheshire Cat, Bluejay and a bunch of Viper Goons. They were gonna
>>>steal some scientific gizmo from someone, I think.
>>
>>If you get the new Viper sourcebook, it is written up in the scenarios
>>section, with a new chapter added. It included Combat in Christopher Park
>>and some other stuff, was pretty good, although the new write up was much
>>better.
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
>>Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:31:59 -0800
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
Bah. Children.
First edtion:Standlaone book, color 'wraparound' cover, never-named
guy with energy-visor fighting some other guy on the front, Gargoyle
and some other now-unpeople on the back.
Second edition:Boxed set, same cover on the front of the main
rulebook, no wraparound(iirc), included an advneture module featuring
Brick,Bluejay(?) and someone else as villains.
Third edtion:Single book, color cover
Fourth edition:BBB
Fifth Edition:???
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:23:08 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Champions 1st thru 4th Eds.
At 05:11 PM 1/12/1999 -0500, Ronald A. Miller wrote:
>OK, lets get this straight:
>1st Ed, two flying combatants, one has a Cylon-esque helmet, b&w
>2nd Ed, that generic white circle hero and swingy-guy and flame girl, right?
>or was this the 3rd Ed? and the 2nd Ed was 1st Ed in color?
>3rd Ed, drawing a blank
>4th Ed, the beloved BBB
>
>Right? (whew)
I don't have a copy of 1st Ed, but I do have 2nd, 3rd and 4th:
2nd ed involves two combatants (one with an energy-enhanced fist and the
other with a single eyebeam shooting out of his helmet). I don't think
either one of them is flying, but it looks as if the helmeted character
might have been knocked off balance, or even be in the early stages of
Knockback after being hit by his opponent. The cover is in color, and the
same illustration appears on the front of the box, and the 80-page stapled
book inside the box. The "scale" motif on the helmeted character's boots,
gloves, coif and trunks suggests a VIPER connection.
3rd ed is perfect-bound rather than stapled. Character on the cover are
White Circle Guy, Flame Girl and The Caped Swinger.
4th ed is, as you say, the BBB.
Unless the color scheme is changed, I guess 5th ed will be BBB5 (sounds
like a stuttering reference to a recent sci-fi program: B-B-B5.)
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:20:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Shopping Excursion
On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Lizard wrote:
> Bah. Children.
> First edtion:Standlaone book, color 'wraparound' cover, never-named
> guy with energy-visor fighting some other guy on the front, Gargoyle
> and some other now-unpeople on the back.
Holocaust was the name of teh dude with the energy visor.
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:19:09 -0500
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
Subject: Re: Champions 1st thru 4th Eds.
I believe there were a couple different versions of both 1st and 2nd ed. I
know my original copy was the boxed 2nd. ed. Our first GM had an older
version that was either black and white, or a greenish color ... I don't
exactly remember which, but I do remember that it was monochrome.
~ Mike
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin <griffin@txdirect.net>
To: HERO System Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 8:08 PM
Subject: Champions 1st thru 4th Eds.
>At 05:11 PM 1/12/1999 -0500, Ronald A. Miller wrote:
>>OK, lets get this straight:
>>1st Ed, two flying combatants, one has a Cylon-esque helmet, b&w
>>2nd Ed, that generic white circle hero and swingy-guy and flame girl,
right?
>>or was this the 3rd Ed? and the 2nd Ed was 1st Ed in color?
>>3rd Ed, drawing a blank
>>4th Ed, the beloved BBB
>>
>>Right? (whew)
>
>I don't have a copy of 1st Ed, but I do have 2nd, 3rd and 4th:
>
>2nd ed involves two combatants (one with an energy-enhanced fist and the
>other with a single eyebeam shooting out of his helmet). I don't think
>either one of them is flying, but it looks as if the helmeted character
>might have been knocked off balance, or even be in the early stages of
>Knockback after being hit by his opponent. The cover is in color, and the
>same illustration appears on the front of the box, and the 80-page stapled
>book inside the box. The "scale" motif on the helmeted character's boots,
>gloves, coif and trunks suggests a VIPER connection.
>
>3rd ed is perfect-bound rather than stapled. Character on the cover are
>White Circle Guy, Flame Girl and The Caped Swinger.
>
>4th ed is, as you say, the BBB.
>
>Unless the color scheme is changed, I guess 5th ed will be BBB5 (sounds
>like a stuttering reference to a recent sci-fi program: B-B-B5.)
>
>Damon
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:55:59 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: The Terminus Faction
>Here's a premise I cooked up. I thought it was
> original, but doesn't is smack of "Strikeforce
> Morituri" (ca. 1990 by Marvel)?
Earlier--I was in college when the series was being published, so I
place it at about 1985/86....
>I couldn't have been the only one to read that
> piece of laborious fiction. Let me know what
> you think.
It does smack of STRIKEFORCE (which I *liked a lot*), but that shouldn't
stop you from using it....
"It's almost Dante's Inferno, except the beer was cheaper in Hell, and
the damned were smarter than this crowd."
--Evan Dorkin, DORK #2
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:02:53 -0500
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal
>Actualy he's the biggest fount of misinformation there, or lack of it. he
>may know what it is but i bet you dollars to donuts he couldn't tell you
>when it was going to be released, page count, etc....
<<Shhh, he might be listening and pull the plug on the whole operation!!!>>
Heck, I'm the author and *I* can't tell you exactly when its due out. :)
Lisa
P.S. That is, if you're talking about The Kandris Seal. <sigh> Now that the
first draft is put to bed, I can direct my excitement towards Cthulhu
Creator. If any of my players are on this list and reading this message,
beware. Many of the creatures from that game are *ideal* for Chaos
creatures.... Heh heh heh....
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:55:14 EST
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: Champions 1st thru 4th Eds.
In a message dated 1/12/99 5:07:15 PM, griffin@txdirect.net writes:
>Unless the color scheme is changed, I guess 5th ed will be BBB5 (sounds
>like a stuttering reference to a recent sci-fi program: B-B-B5.)
>
There is no Champions 5th Edition per se planned; the planned book is the Hero
System 5th Edition. There were really three books included under one cover in
the 4th Edition Champions book: The Hero System rules, a brief Champions
campaign book, and a superhero genre book (with advice on creating and running
superhero campaigns). We've decided that all three of those books need more
space, so we're separating them into separate books. This provides another
advantage; we can come out with separate campaign books so fans can mix and
match elements they like from different campaigns. There are two campaign
books already out for Champions; the Champions: New Millennium campaign book
and the San Angelo: City of Heroes campaign book. Scott Bennie is hard at work
on his Gestalt campaign book (which I hope we'll see soon!); Aaron Allston is
working on his new Strike Force campaign book series; and we already have
Jason Vester's Tarot campaign book in the editing process. So we'll be seeing
a lot of different campaigns, along with supplements for many of those
campaigns, which means there'll be a lot of choices for Champions fans.
Dave Mattingly is working on the Champions genre book right now, and of course
we're working with Steve Long on the new edition of the Hero System rules.
Between Gold Rush Games and Hero Games, there'll be a lot of new Champions
material coming out!
BTW, just to clear up the historical record: The first edition of Champions
was a 4-color cover (predominantly blue!) book, 64 pages long, for $10. (You
can still pick up copies of the second printing of this book; see the order
form on our web site. We have a few left for the collectors...) The second
edition was a boxed set with the same cover; the book inside had a gray-scale
cover of the same book. The third edition was initially a boxed set with a new
Mark Williams cover, then was later released as a perfect-bound book. The 4th
Edition (1989) was the hardback edition with the George Perez cover (later
released in a softcover version); the 4.2 Edition is the one currently in
distribution (with the recolored Perez cover and new interior layout, along
with a lot of typos fixed).
— Steve Peterson, Hero Games
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:54:03 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Champions 1st thru 4th Eds.
At 09:55 PM 1/12/1999 EST, HeroGames@aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 1/12/99 5:07:15 PM, griffin@txdirect.net writes:
>
>>Unless the color scheme is changed, I guess 5th ed will be BBB5 (sounds
>>like a stuttering reference to a recent sci-fi program: B-B-B5.)
>>
>
>There is no Champions 5th Edition per se planned; the planned book is the
Hero
>System 5th Edition. There were really three books included under one cover in
>the 4th Edition Champions book: The Hero System rules, a brief Champions
>campaign book, and a superhero genre book (with advice on creating and
running
>superhero campaigns).
I understand that the "5th Ed" book we've spent so much time talking about
over the past several months is 5th Ed Hero, and that the BBB was three
books under one cover, but...
>Dave Mattingly is working on the Champions genre book right now...
Won't that be 5th Ed Champions? "The 4th Edition (1989) was the hardback
edition with the George Perez cover..."
>books already out for Champions; the Champions: New Millennium campaign book
>and the San Angelo: City of Heroes campaign book. Scott Bennie is hard at
work
>on his Gestalt campaign book (which I hope we'll see soon!); Aaron Allston is
>working on his new Strike Force campaign book series; and we already have
>Jason Vester's Tarot campaign book in the editing process. So we'll be seeing
>a lot of different campaigns, along with supplements for many of those
>campaigns, which means there'll be a lot of choices for Champions fans.
How many of these will be paper products, and how many only available in
the Hero "Plus" format? I'll skip the "I hate printing my own books and
having to pay extra for the privelege" tirade -- oops, or not. :)
>BTW, just to clear up the historical record: The first edition of Champions
>was a 4-color cover (predominantly blue!) book, 64 pages long, for $10. (You
>can still pick up copies of the second printing of this book; see the order
>form on our web site. We have a few left for the collectors...) The second
>edition was a boxed set with the same cover; the book inside had a gray-scale
>cover of the same book. The third edition was initially a boxed set with a
new
>Mark Williams cover, then was later released as a perfect-bound book. The 4th
>Edition (1989) was the hardback edition with the George Perez cover (later
>released in a softcover version); the 4.2 Edition is the one currently in
>distribution (with the recolored Perez cover and new interior layout, along
>with a lot of typos fixed).
Thanks for setting the record straight...except...I have a second edition
boxed set, and the book inside has a *color* cover, not grayscale. The
book's dedication clearly marks it as a second edition book, and the box is
also clearly labeled Second Edition. This seems to be at odds with some of
what you've said here, unless the first printing of the second edition book
you describe used the grayscale cover, and later printings used a color
cover (my boxed copy is a Second Edition, Fourth Printing, July 1983).
I guess I haven't seen the third edition boxed set; I have the later
perfectbound version (Third Edition, Fifth Printing, April 1987).
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:05:17 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: I've been away
Well, I'm back in Oklahoma for my second semester of grad school.
By some annoying set of circumstances, I was able to read mail over my
Christmas break, but not send. Anyway, I saved some replies that I am now
sending out. They may rekindle old debates or pass unnonitced, so be it.
-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:35:47 -0600
From: joshua windeknecht <joshuaw@igateway.net>
Subject: Highland Immortality
I was wondering if there has been a discussion about how to work a
Highlander Immortality
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:30:38 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Area Effect Question
There are many powers in the HSR with their own areas of effect.
Images is an example of what I mean - it covers a single hex,
and you can pay to increase it's radius.
That's what I have a question about, the radius. Suppose I want
to use Images to simulate a long line of smoke screen. All I want
is a screen 1 hex wide and many hexes long. Do I buy the radius
to the length desired and 'lose' all the rest of the area?
Or is it reasonable to figure the area covered by the line and buy
that area in radius?
If that wasn't clear enough, here's an example of what I mean.
I want to build a smokescreen 32 hexes long. Do I buy Images
with a 16-hex radius and ignore the fact that only 32 of the 2526
hexes covered actually contain an image?
Or is reasonable to buy a 4-hex radius Images, noting that it covers
38 hexes, and just spread those hexes out in a line?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would
think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying
'My mother, drunk or sober.'"
G.K. Chesterton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:34:26 -0800
From: Scott Bennie <sbennie@dowco.com>
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
I'd say use the Regeneration from Death that's in Hero Creator (+20 points),
then buy down the cost to about 1 BODY per five hours, since the Highlander's
recovery wasn't at a Wolverine level. The hole that the Regeneration doesn't
work against is decapitation.
Scott Bennie
joshua windeknecht wrote:
> I was wondering if there has been a discussion about how to work a
> Highlander Immortality
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:43:46 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Champions 1st thru 4th Eds.
Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
> 3rd ed is perfect-bound rather than stapled. Character on the cover are
> White Circle Guy, Flame Girl and The Caped Swinger.
I just pulled my old third edition (Shows how much I know. I thought
it was earlier) boxed set off the shelf and it has two staples holding
it together. Cover is how you describe it, however.
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:56:42 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
>There are many powers in the HSR with their own areas of effect.
>Images is an example of what I mean - it covers a single hex,
>and you can pay to increase it's radius.
>
>That's what I have a question about, the radius. Suppose I want
>to use Images to simulate a long line of smoke screen. All I want
>is a screen 1 hex wide and many hexes long. Do I buy the radius
>to the length desired and 'lose' all the rest of the area?
>
>Or is it reasonable to figure the area covered by the line and buy
>that area in radius?
I'd assume the rest of the image was 'wasted'. Normally, after all, you
don't get to choose how much of a radius you use once you buy it; with
Images, you just have the benefit that you can key part of the area to not
be any Image that would be relevant.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 99 11:19:11
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:35:47 -0600, joshua windeknecht wrote:
>I was wondering if there has been a discussion about how to work a
>Highlander Immortality
There has :}. The last one was back in September, but there have been
others.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 99 11:13:42
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:30:38 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>There are many powers in the HSR with their own areas of effect.
>Images is an example of what I mean - it covers a single hex,
>and you can pay to increase it's radius.
>
>That's what I have a question about, the radius. Suppose I want
>to use Images to simulate a long line of smoke screen. All I want
>is a screen 1 hex wide and many hexes long. Do I buy the radius
>to the length desired and 'lose' all the rest of the area?
Try AOE: Line
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:16:27 -0500
From: Indiana Joe <jrc3@home.net>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
At 11:13 AM -0500 1/13/99, qts wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:30:38 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>
>>There are many powers in the HSR with their own areas of effect.
>>Images is an example of what I mean - it covers a single hex,
>>and you can pay to increase it's radius.
>>
>>That's what I have a question about, the radius. Suppose I want
>>to use Images to simulate a long line of smoke screen. All I want
>>is a screen 1 hex wide and many hexes long. Do I buy the radius
>>to the length desired and 'lose' all the rest of the area?
>
>Try AOE: Line
>
>qts
You mean to use AOE:Line instead of the default AOE rules for the power
(Images, Darkness, Change Enviroment, etc), right?
Joe Claffey | "In the end, everything is a gag."
jrc3@home.net | - Charlie Chaplin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:12:37 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
>From: nolan@erols.com (Scott Nolan)
>>That's what I have a question about, the
>> radius. Suppose I want to use Images to
>> simulate a long line of smoke screen. All I
>> want is a screen 1 hex wide and many
>> hexes long. Do I buy the radius to the length
>> desired and 'lose' all the rest of the area?
No, you buy Area Effect: Line for as long a line as you want...
"It's almost Dante's Inferno, except the beer was cheaper in Hell, and
the damned were smarter than this crowd."
--Evan Dorkin, DORK #2
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:09:20 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Champions 1st thru 4th Eds.
At 06:43 PM 1/13/1999 -0800, Rick Holding wrote:
>Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
>
>> 3rd ed is perfect-bound rather than stapled. Character on the cover are
>> White Circle Guy, Flame Girl and The Caped Swinger.
>
> I just pulled my old third edition (Shows how much I know. I thought
>it was earlier) boxed set off the shelf and it has two staples holding
>it together. Cover is how you describe it, however.
Thanks to Steve Peterson's rundown of the various editions, this makes
sense to me. You have a third edition boxed set, I have the perfectbound
version of third edition, released later with no box.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:08:35 -0500
From: emiller1@worldbank.org
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> on 01/13/99 02:30:38 AM
To: Champ-L@Sysabend.Org
cc:
Subject: Area Effect Question
There are many powers in the HSR with their own areas of effect.
Images is an example of what I mean - it covers a single hex,
and you can pay to increase it's radius.
That's what I have a question about, the radius. Suppose I want
to use Images to simulate a long line of smoke screen. All I want
is a screen 1 hex wide and many hexes long. Do I buy the radius
to the length desired and 'lose' all the rest of the area?
Or is it reasonable to figure the area covered by the line and buy
that area in radius?
If that wasn't clear enough, here's an example of what I mean.
I want to build a smokescreen 32 hexes long. Do I buy Images
with a 16-hex radius and ignore the fact that only 32 of the 2526
hexes covered actually contain an image?
Or is reasonable to buy a 4-hex radius Images, noting that it covers
38 hexes, and just spread those hexes out in a line?
*******
Pardon me for being a moron, but I assume that there is a decent reason not to
do this the way I am about to suggest. But, since I can't think of it, I'll
suggest it, and let somebody else tell me why it won't work.
My suggestion is-- buy the power as a Force Wall, opaque to a few senses
(smokescreen would be normal vision, probably IR vision as well, and the entire
scent sense group), with the defenses probably set to 0, and then use the rules
of that power to expand it to the needed length/area.
(ducks head and covers behind reinforced lancer's shield, awaiting the assault
of insults)
That's my foolish idea.
David Miller
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:07:05 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
At 02:30 AM 1/13/1999 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>There are many powers in the HSR with their own areas of effect.
>Images is an example of what I mean - it covers a single hex,
>and you can pay to increase it's radius.
>
>That's what I have a question about, the radius. Suppose I want
>to use Images to simulate a long line of smoke screen. All I want
>is a screen 1 hex wide and many hexes long. Do I buy the radius
>to the length desired and 'lose' all the rest of the area?
>
>Or is it reasonable to figure the area covered by the line and buy
>that area in radius?
>
>If that wasn't clear enough, here's an example of what I mean.
>
>I want to build a smokescreen 32 hexes long. Do I buy Images
>with a 16-hex radius and ignore the fact that only 32 of the 2526
>hexes covered actually contain an image?
>
>Or is reasonable to buy a 4-hex radius Images, noting that it covers
>38 hexes, and just spread those hexes out in a line?
Don't use Radius.
If the line must always be straight, use AoE: Line; if you can bend the
line into an arc, or shape it into a box, a circle, etc., use AoE: Any Area.
It's never made sense to me that all these AoE options are +1 Advantages.
Say you have a 40 point Power that you make AoE: the radius option gives
you 360 degree coverage out to 4 hexes, covering a total of 37 hexes; using
A0E: Line on the same Power will cover only 16 hexes, which must be in a
straight line -- much more limited, but it's a +1 Advantage, same as Radius.
The bigger the base power, the bigger the discrepancy. An 80 point Power
with AoE: Radius covers something like 270 hexes -- I'm not sure that
numner is exact -- while the same Power with AoE: Line only covers 32 hexes.
*Either* option allows you to double the coverage for an additional +1/4
Advantage, as well, so you can get that 270 hex coverage for the 40 point
Power for little extra expense.
How screwed up is this?
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:34:48 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
At 12:35 AM 1/13/99 -0600, joshua windeknecht wrote:
> I was wondering if there has been a discussion about how to work a
>Highlander Immortality
Actually there's been multiple long and extensive debates on the topic,
none of them conclusive.
Personally, I say to just wait for 5th Edition. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #131
*****************************
Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 03:10 PM