Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 133

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 10:36 PM 
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #133 
 
 
champ-l-digest       Wednesday, January 13 1999       Volume 01 : Number 133 
 
 
 
In this issue: 
 
    Re: Area Effect Question 
    CHAR: Son Goku 
    Re: Clarification 
    Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
    Re: Highland Immortality 
    Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
    Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
    Re: Highland Immortality 
    Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
    Re: CHAR: Anita Carstairs (was Stupid Precog Tricks) 
    Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
    Re: Area Effect Question 
    Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
    Re: Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff 
    Re: Highland Immortality 
    Re: Highland Immortality 
    Re: The Kandris Seal 
    Re: Rules Changes in Hero Creator (was Re: Highland Immortality) 
    Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
    Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
    Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
    Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
    Re: Area Effect Question 
    Re: Highland Immortality 
    Re: Highland Immortality 
    Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:29:42 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question 
 
At 12:42 PM 1/13/99 -0800, James Jandebeur wrote: 
>>   Actually, AE:Line (2"/5AP) is four times the length of the diameter of 
>>AE:Radius  (1"/10AP). 
> 
> 
>Oh, Bob, I knew someone was going to say that right after I posted, but I 
>didn't expect it to be you. I'm so disappointed. 
> 
>1"/10 AP is the radius of the area, not the diameter. Diameter is twice the 
>radius. Hence, AE: Line is twice the diameter. I used diameter because it is 
>closer to what the line is in terms of effect than the radius is. 
 
   [whacks forehead]  You are so correct!  That's what I get for not 
reading carefully enough (my most frequent failing on this list).  For some 
reason, even as I was writing it myself, I was registering "diameter" as 
"radius." 
   (Or maybe that's my slight touch of aphasia coming into play again -- 
though this doesn't seem typical of that.) 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:54:41 -0500 (EST) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Son Goku 
 
[even worse!!!] 
 
SON GOKU 
 
Val	CHA	Cost	Roll	Notes 
48	STR	38	19-	18.75 tons; 9 1/2d6 
30	DEX	60	15-	OCV: 10 / DCV: 10 
35	CON	50	16-	 
20	BODY	20	13-	 
13	INT	3	12-	PER Roll 12- 
18	EGO	16	13-	ECV: 6 
20	PRE	10	13-	PRE Attack: 4d6 
14	COM	2	12-	 
28	PD	18		Total: 28 PD / 6 PDr 
28	ED	21		Total: 28 ED / 6 EDr 
6	SPD	20		Phases: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 
18	REC	2		 
100	END	15		 
65	STUN	3		 
Total Characteristics Cost: 278 
 
Movement:	Flight: 30" / 120" 
		Running: 12" / 24" 
		Superleap: 20" / 40" 
		Swimming: 6" / 12" 
		Teleport: 30" / 7,864,320" 
 
Cost	Powers & Skills 
Combat Training: 
40	Combat Skill Levels: +5 with All Combat 
18	Combat Skill Levels: +6 vs Range, all attacks 
1	Martial Arts: Kamesennin-ryu; use Art with Staff 
	Maneuver	OCV	DCV	Damage 
4	Block			+2	+2	Block, Abort 
4	Dodge			+0	+5	Dodge vs All, Abort 
5	Flying Dodge		+0	+4	Dodge vs All, Abort; Full Move 
3	Joint Lock		-1	-1	Grab Two Limbs, 68 STR to hold 
4	Jan-Ken-Choki		-1	-1	4d6 Sight Group Flash 
5	Kick			-2	+1	17 1/2d6 Strike 
4	Knee/Elbow Strike	+2	+0	15 1/2d6 Strike 
3	Legsweep		+2	-1	14 1/2d6 Strike; Target Falls 
4	Punch			+0	+2	15 1/2d6 Strike 
16	+4 Damage Classes with Martial Arts  
 
Saiyajin Racial Powers: 
6	Toughness: Damage Resistance: 6 PD, 6 ED 
3	Life Support: Immune to Aging 
12	Great Strength: 1/2 END on STR 
 
Super-Saiyajin Powers: 
50	Level One: Aid: 4d6 to STR, DEX, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN and 
	Ki Powers Multipower (+2), Fades per Minute (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2), 
	Full Phase (-1/2) 
32	Level Two: Aid: 4d6 STR, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN and  
	Ki Powers Multipower (+2), Fades per 5 Minutes (+1/2),  
	0 END (+1/2), 
	Linked to SSJ 1, SSJ 1 must have reched maximum Aid levels (-1),  
	Full Phase (-1/2), Side Effect: 8d6 DEX Drain (-1) 
 
Ki Powers: 
270	Ki Powers Multipower: 270 Point Pool 
11	u - Genkidama: RKA: 9d6 E, Radius of Effect (+1), Concentrate: 1/2 
	DCV (-1/4), 5d6 takes Full Phase (-1/2), 7d6 takes Full Turn (-1), 9d6 
	takes One  Minute (-1 1/2), Cannot be used while in Super 
	Saiya-jin Mode (ie. Aid is active) (-1/2), END 27 
8	u - Kamehameha: EB: 40d6, x2 END (-1/2), Full Phase (-1/2),  
	Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4), END 40 
12	u - Ki Blast: EB: 25d6, END 12 
13	u - Kiaiho: 18d6 (physical), Invisible Power Effects:  
	Sight (+1/2), END 13 
8	u - Renzoku Energy Dan: EB: 14d6 Autofire (+1/2), 1/2 END (+1/2),  
	Full Phase (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), END 3 per shot 
4	u - Taiyoken: Flash: 4d6 vs Sight Group, Explosive (+1/2), 
	Personal Immunity (+1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4),  
	No Range (-1/2), END 9 
 
64	Hasshuken: HA: 10d6, Autofire: 10 (+3/4), 1/2 END (+1/2), Cannot 
	move and Attack (-1/4), STR does not add (-1/2) END 2 per 'shot' 
30	Missle Deflection: All Ranged Attacks, +5 OCV 
97	Bukujutsu: Flight: 30", x4 NCM, 0 END (+1/2) 
12	Running: +6" (12" total), END 2 
14	Sanzouken: Teleport: 12", No Non-combat movement (-1/4), Must be 
	able to cross distance normally (-1/2), END 2 
11	Superleap: +11" (20" total), END 2 
4	Swimming: +4" (6" total), END 1 
98	Shunkanido: Teleport: 30", x 262,144 NCM (~10,000 miles), NCM has 
	the following limitations: Can only be used if someone's 'Ki' is 
	in the area (-1), Concentrate 1/2 DCV (-1/4), Full Turn (-1), END 6 
37	Ki Sense: Detect: Ki, Discriminatory, Ranged, Sense, Telescopic 
	+8, 360 degrees 
57	Ki Sense: Clairisentience: use with Sense Ki, x 65,536 range 
	(~10,000 miles), Concentrate: 1/2 DCV (-1/2), Full Phase (-1/2), END 10  
22	Zazoken: Images: Sight, Radius 16", -4 to PER, Must perform a 
	half-move minimum (-1/2), No Range (-1/2) END 4 
20	Invisible Jumping: Invisibility: Sight, No Fringe, Must make a 
	Full Move (-1/2), END 3 
10	Telepathic Link to Son Gohan: Mind Link: Son Gohan, Psychic Bond 
	(+5 pts) 
 
Background Skills: 
2	Contact: Kami-sama (God) 11- 
2	Contact: Kariou-sama (World King) 11- 
3	Acrobatics 15- 
3	Breakfall 15- 
3	Climbing 15- 
7	Combat Sense 14- 
10	Defense Manuever (full) 
5	KS: Analyze Style 14- 
2	KS: Kamesennin-ryu 11- 
5	KS: Martial 'World' 14- 
1	KS: Red Ribbon Army 8- 
2	PS: Sensei 11- 
5	Survival 12- 
2	TF: Car, Small Spaceship 
1	WF: Staff 
1072	Total Powers & Skills Cost 
1350	Total Character Cost 
 
150+	Disadvantages 
15	Distinctive Features: Super Saiya-jin Mode (Gold hair, extremely 
	obvious Ki) 
	DNPC 
15	Chi Chi (normal) 11- 
10	Son Gohan (as pow) 14- 
	Hunted:  
15	Agents of the Red Ribbon Army (more pow) 8- 
15	Assorted Villains (as pow) 11- 
15	Physical Limitation: All Aid effects lost if reduced to negative 
	Stun 
	Psychological Limitation: 
15	Likes to fight (especially powerful opponents) (C, S) 
15	Protective of friends and allies (C, S) 
15	Reckless, often prone to acting without thinking (C, S) 
10	Self-Sacrificing (U, S) 
15	Reputation: Son Goku - most powerful fighter around 14- 
1045	Experience 
1350	Total Disadvantage Points 
 
Designers Notes: 
Son Goku is the star and main character of Dragonball and Dragonball Z. 
As such, he has a somewhat long history.  It runs like this... 
 
Son Goku was sent to Earth while still small child.  The idea was for him 
to soften the planet up in preparation for a full-scale takeover later 
(even as a small child, a Saiyajin is very powerful).  Goku was discovered 
by Son Gohan, who took him in.  Goku was originally very violent, until 
her fell and hit his head, becoming much more manageable.  Life went on 
for the two, with Gohan teaching his 'grandson' martial arts and other 
skills.  Unfortunately, Goku transformed into a were-monkey and stepped on 
Gohan, killing him. 
 
At the start of the manga series, we find Goku as a young boy about the 
age of 10 or so.  He is quite naive but very strong and determined.  He 
meets Bulma, who is searching for the dragonballs and ends up accompanying 
her.  The two have a series of adventures, meeting up with many of the 
reoccurring characters in the book and foiling Pilaf's attempt to take 
over the world.  At this point, Goku leaves the 'group' to train with 
Kame-sennin, avowed martial arts master. 
 
Goku spends some time with Kame-sennin, training along side Kulilin. 
Eventually he enters the Tenkaichi Budoikai and loses in  the finals to 
Jackie Chun (aka  Kame-sennin).  Afterwards, Goku runs afoul of the Red 
Ribbon Army.  They are looking for the dragonballs and Goku and company 
need to beat them to it.  Goku endures all sorts of trials, and is nearly 
killed by the master assassin Tao-Pie-Pie.  Eventually he wins, wrecking 
the Red Ribbon war machine. 
 
Goku then fights in the second Tenkaichi Budoikai, loosing to Tenshinhan 
in the finals.  Afterwards he becomes embroiled in a plot by the evil 
Demon King Piccolo to take over the world.  Goku and friends win, despite 
heavy losses, and Goku spends several years training with Kami-sama (aka 
'god').  He returns in time for the third Tenkaichi Budoikai. 
   
The third Tenkaichi Budoikai sees Goku fight the new Piccolo (aka 'Ma 
Junior') in the finals, and Goku *finally* wins.  Afterwards  he and 
Chi-Chi (who he is due to marry) leave and the first 'half' of Dragonball 
comes to a close.  The action picks up about 4 years later, with the 
arrival of Raditz.  Goku now has a son, Son Gohan.  Goku battles Raditz, 
dies and trains with Karou-sama.  Brought back to life, he arrives in time 
to defeat Nappa and fight Vegita, who have followed Raditz's trail.  Goku 
then pursues Vegita to the planet of the Namecks, where Goku ends up 
fighting Freezer and transforming into the legendary 'Super-Saiyajin.'   
 
Goku finally returns to Earth almost a year after he left.  he meets up 
with Trunks, learns about the cyborg invasion (due to occur in a few 
years) and is given medicine to help him with his heart condition.  This 
plot (the battle with Dr. Gero and his red Ribbon cyborgs) winds up with 
the Cell Game and Goku's death when Cell self-detonates. 
 
Goku isn't done yet.  He eventually is brought back to life and battles 
Majin Buu in an effort to save the world (and the universe).  Along the 
way he reaches Super-Saiyajn 3 (or 'third stage') and almost absurd power 
level, as well as fusing with Vegita to form Vegit (or Gogeta), a 
character of really silly power levels... 
 
All in all, Goku is one of *the* most powerful anime/manga characters ever 
created.  Heck, he out does many Western comics characters!  Initially 
derived from Songoku, the Chinese Monkey King, many of his earlier 
adventures drew heavily upon the Songoku stories.  Akira Toriyama also 
credits Jackie Chan as an inspiration, especially his fighting style. 
Finally, Son Goku's Saiyajin name, 'Kakarot' is a pun on 'carrot'. 
 
Description: 
Son Goku is of average height, with a well-muscled and well-defined build. 
His hair is thick, black and points in a number of different directions. 
Usually, Goku wears a orange, short-sleeved gi over a dark blue shirt. 
Dark blue boots and a belt sash complete the outfit.   
 
In Super Saiya-jin mode, Goku's hair turns bright gold and his whole body 
starts to glow.  His 'power rating' hits an insane level and going to 
Super Saiya-jin will easily shatter the power scanners used in DBZ to 
register a fighter's ability.  At Super Saiya-jin Level 2, his hair grows 
out a bit and his body gains a great deal of muscle mass.  Later in the 
series, Son Goku reaches Super Saiya-jin Level 3, at this point his face 
grows very lean and his hair reaches past his waist. 
 
Powers Notes: 
As a Saiyajin Goku can achieve the high-energy state known as 'Super 
Saiyajin'.  This state is marked by his hair turning bright golden yellow 
and spiky, and his ki manifesting as a visible aura.  His ki reaches such 
high levels that *anyone* with any amount of 'Detect Ki' should be able to 
pick him up.  Super Saiyajin mode is marked by a massive increase in the 
character's strength, agility, durability and so on.  Note that the SSJ 
Aid also feeds into the Multipower pool and the slots, boosting Goku's ki 
blasts as well!  SSJ 2 can pump Goku's fighting ability to astronomical 
levels, but has one major drawback.  One's muscles become so pumped with 
energy, that the Sayajin's agility is shot and his ability to move and 
fight is effectively eliminated. 
 
Son Goku , being the star of the manga series, demonstrates a huge number 
of powers and ki techniques.  A rundown is as follows: 
 
	Genkidama: This is a massive energy ball formed from the 
surrounding life energy of the world.  it takes sometime to form, but is 
capable of disintegrating virtually anything.  It also requires energy to 
draw from, thus, a "sufficent local energy" lim *could* be applied. 
Basically, Goku can create one anywhere but a place that is barren (like 
the moon). 
	Kamehameha: Goku's trademark energy blast.  It took Kame-sennin 50 
years to learn.  Goku picked it up by watching. 
	Ki Blast: Generic energy blast. 
	Kiaiho: An invisible bolt of force 
	Renzoku Energy Dan: Basically an autofire blast of energy bolts. 
	Taiyoken: This technique releases a bright flash of light from the 
body, blinding anyone nearby. 
 
	Hasshuken: Goku's high-speed punching tecnhique. 
	Shunkanido: Goku can teleport to anywhere he can sense ki energy. 
In order to teleport he places his middle and index finger against his 
forehead and concentrates.  Note that the manga Goku can teleport to other 
worlds! 
	Zazoken: Goku moves so fast as to leave afterimages.  Also called 
'one pattern'. 
	Invisible Jumping: Goku now moves so fast that he vanishes from 
view. 
	Telepathic Link to Son Gohan: Goku looks to have a semi-preminant 
link to Son Gohan, much like the one Piccolo has. 
 
Disadvantages Notes: 
Chi-Chi is Goku's long suffering wife  Although Chi Chi (see her sheet for 
more) is a capable fighter, she is *nowhere* in the league of the primary 
characters of the series.  Gohan, is quite powerful in his own right and 
his Super-Saiyajin mode is far more powerful than anyone elses.  Later, 
Goku gains a second son, Goten. 
 
Goku is very much a big kid at times.  He likes to fight, and the more 
powerful his opponent the better.  He doesn't pick fights, but isn't 
adverse to finishing one once it gets started.  Thus, Goku is a trifle 
reckless and can easily jump into something he can't quite handle.  Goku 
has also sacrificed himself to allow others to escape.  He held Raditz 
still so that Piccolo could have time to fire off his ki blast (which 
killed them both), fought Freezer on the dying Namek planet in order to 
let Gohan, Kulilian and the others escape, and teleported away with the 
self-destructing Cell in order to save the Earth. 
 
As a Super-Saiyajin, Vegita's hair turns bright gold and his ki skyrockets 
to phenomenal levels.  He can be easily detected this way, which is not 
always to his advantage.  As with all Super-Saiyajins, being knocked out 
removes *all* benefits of his Aid power, instantly. 
 
(Son Goku created by Akira Toriyama, character sheet created by Michael 
Surbrook) 
 
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com  
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html 
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 13 Jan 1999 17:37:14 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Clarification 
 
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"jw" == joshua windeknecht <joshuaw@igateway.net> writes: 
 
jw> 	This is a clarification of the question I asked about Highlander 
jw> Immortality.  I am going to be playing in a non-immortal campaign, and I 
jw> could possibly be the only character with this ability. 
 
Then wing it.  Have the GM come up with a reasonable cost for the ability 
and pay for it. 
 
Or wait for 5th edition, which could be forever since no release date has 
been hinted at. 
 
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- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \  
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:54:30 -0800 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
Subject: Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
 
>> That, and I have a house rule that any power with personal immunity has the 
>> chance that someone can figure out how to access that. 
> 
>Sounds fine as long as it's used sparingly. 
 
Yeah, it only came up once in the campaign, but it fits comic books well, 
if you think back on the old stories, especially with gadgeteers.  In all 
honesty, being able to exploit this in a character is rarely possible (oh, 
I know about your personal immunity vs your energy blast... not that it 
helps me any, I cant make myself immune). 
 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo    	Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:04:10 -0800 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality 
 
>Or, a fantasy game for that matter.  'regenerate from death' is just what 
>the doctor ordered for certain monsters (trolls, necromancers, various 
>types of undead, etc). 
 
The funny thing is... until this came up I always figured you could regen 
from any amount of damage if you had regeneration, I mean its not stated, 
but its not really rejected either, and if you look at the source material 
(comics AND fantasy) people who regenerate are nearly impossible to kill 
except by a certain way... but now it costs 20 more points? 
 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo    	Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:55:41 -0800 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
Subject: Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
 
At 03:11 PM 1/13/99 -0600, you wrote: 
>One factor you didn't take into account, though: Aid allows you to bypass 
>campaign limits ofcharacteristic maxima, which affects heroic campaigns 
>more than superheroic.  I don't know how that would affect the cost of the 
>power, but it's definitely an Advantage. 
 
Hmm possibly, I have a house rule that it does NOT do so, and it doesnt say 
one way or the other in the rules that Im aware of. 
 
>> >I'm curious about how you figured this up.  Do you still have your 
>figures, 
>> >or would it be too much trouble to reproduce your calculations? 
>>  
>> damn I knew someone was gonna ask LOL let me see if I can remember.   
>>  
>> 					Starting with 6 character points, put the following modifiers on it: 
>>  
>> 									Costs END (-1/2) 
>> 									Fades over time, 5 pts/turn (-1/4) 
>> 									Random Result (unsure on this, so -1/2; you could argue -1/4 I 
suppose) 
>> 									Visible (costs END doesnt make em visible automatically) -1/4 
>> 								Total Limitations: -1 1/2 
>> 									Usable Against Others (not by others, they dont have a choice 
in the matter: +1) 
>> 									Costs END only to turn on (an advantage I use for spells a lot, 
modified slightly here: +1/4) 
>> 								Total Advantages: +1 1/4 
>> 					Base Cost: 6 points 	Active Cost: 13  		Real Cost: 5 
 
 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo    	Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:00:32 -0800 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
Subject: Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
 
>> Aid is very abuasable, but most anything is.  10 points just makes it more 
>> difficult.  Most fixes that Hero puts out either cripples a power 
>> or opens up some new abuse.  And one persons abuse is another persons tool. 
>> It's only when they're in the same campaign that it's a problem. 
> 
>Well, the main problem was usually not aid directly, it was with the +2 
>'affects all powers in a group' advantage, or the +1/2 point per +1 max 
effect. 
>That and at 5 pts/die aid really _was_ too cheap for a healing effect, 
>particularly since it never defined how aid max actually worked for healing. 
 
You pay for what you get using those... they cost points.  But my all time 
favorite was the recursive Aid: half of the points you get from the Aid go 
to the max, half go to the actual power, and as a result you can aid 
someone about 2394816 points, given time.  Absorb and Transfer can be 
bought the same way. 
 
Also there is the super regenerate: 1D6 Aid, invisible, always on, 0 END 
cost, self only, persistent, heals any stat or power below 0. Voila, a 
cheap regenerate of 1D6 character points per phase, conscious or not.  Good 
luck putting THIS guy down. 
 
But honestly, you can do that with all the powers that have a magnifying 
glass or stop sign next to.  The 10 point cost wont really have much affect 
on Superhero games, you usually dont buy more than a couple dice anyway. 
But with say, Fantasy Hero, all the sudden cheap, minor spells based on AID 
(like AID to give a sword extra damage) suddenly cost a ton more and dont 
DO anything else.  And these werent unbalancing either... oh well. 
 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo    	Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 13 Jan 1999 18:58:52 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality 
 
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"CT" == Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> writes: 
 
CT> After all, what fun is it when players get chopped up and die in a hurry? 
 
That depends.  If you are playing Speed Paranoia, it is expected that the 
GM come up with interesting ways to kill clones quickly. 
 
Otherwise, no. 
 
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- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds. 
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:07:26 -0800 (PST) 
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> 
Subject: Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
 
Christopher Taylor writes: 
> You pay for what you get using those... they cost points. 
 
Yes, they cost points.  However, the point cost they have tends to be too low 
for the effect they give, at least in the case of aid. 
 
<zap recursive aid>  True, there's a couple of ways to make infinite characters 
with adjustment powers. 
>  
> Also there is the super regenerate: 1D6 Aid, invisible, always on, 0 END 
> cost, self only, persistent, heals any stat or power below 0. Voila, a 
> cheap regenerate of 1D6 character points per phase, conscious or not.  Good 
> luck putting THIS guy down. 
 
Aid as healing is broken, because it doesn't define what the point max does. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:01:01 -0600 (Central Standard Time) 
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Anita Carstairs (was Stupid Precog Tricks) 
 
	I guess I'll jump in on this one, seeing as I have a character 
with a very similar construction.  My construction could be considered to 
be of questionable legality, but it works quite well. 
 
	First, buy the visions however you want/need them.  (This can 
actually be pretty difficult, and may be good for a totally different 
debate.) 
 
	Add, for disads, X5 END and NCC. 
 
	As a separate item, buy off the NCC with the desired disads. 
Activation or Requires a Skill Roll tend to work well. 
 
	The Stun Drain isn't really needed, as that huge END expenditure 
will quite possibly get the character down to the burning STUN stage, 
possibly BOD.  Depends on the GM, really. 
 
 
					-Tim Gilberg 
			-"English Majors of the World!  Untie!" 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:01:13 -0600 (Central Standard Time) 
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu> 
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
 
> Considering that evening news consistently gets any tech or science story 
> messed up, this isn't a surprise. I have yet to see a single program that 
> can actually tell you the correct date the millenium will end. (Hint: It 
> isn't Dec 31, 1999.) 
 
	Er, sorry.  You lose this argument.  Common Sense (No Such Animal, 
I know, but anyway) says that those first two digets are what matters. 
There are just too few voices out there trying to base things on a 
medieval Catholic calendar, which started on 1 instead of 0. 
 
	Now, if those same people showed up every 10 years to argue that 
1950 was the last year of the 40's, 1970 was the last year of the 60's, 
1980 was the last year of the 70's, etc, then perhaps things would be 
different. 
 
 
					-Tim Gilberg 
			-"English Majors of the World!  Untie!" 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:37:50 -0500 
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net> 
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question 
 
>At 08:08 AM 1/13/99 -0500, emiller1@worldbank.org wrote: 
>>My suggestion is-- buy the power as a Force Wall, opaque to a few senses 
>>(smokescreen would be normal vision, probably IR vision as well, and the 
>entire 
>>scent sense group), with the defenses probably set to 0, and then use the 
>rules 
>>of that power to expand it to the needed length/area. 
> 
>   The problem with this one is that, per the Force Wall rules, as soon as 
>someone walks through it the whole thing goes down. 
 
 
For a +1/2 Advantage, you can make a Force Wall transparent to Physical or 
Energy attacks.  What I had never considered doing before would be to make 
it transparent to both (a +1 Advantage).  I am not sure this is a good idea, 
because the wall needs very little in the line of DEF.  You must buy the 
minimum of 10 points, however, so maybe that would work. 
 
Also note that Darkness works better than images here ... but it suffers 
from a similar area effect problem.  Actually, Darkness is worse, since 
increasing the radius increases the base points and is not an Advantage (in 
my campaign, it is reworded such that it is an advantage). 
 
~ Mike 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:07:38 -0500 
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net> 
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
 
> Now, if those same people showed up every 10 years to argue that 
>1950 was the last year of the 40's, 1970 was the last year of the 60's, 
>1980 was the last year of the 70's, etc, then perhaps things would be 
>different. 
 
 
These people do/did show up.  I remember hearing this sort of thing for 1980 
and 1990.  Of course, it was not as big a deal as 2000, but then it was only 
a decade, not a century. 
 
~ Mike 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:49:26 -0500 (EST) 
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja) 
Subject: Re: Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff 
 
>From: susano@dedaana.otd.com (Michael Surbrook)  
 
>>What is "Unknown Eagles" again? A 
>> sourcebook for WWII or a Golden Age 
>> campaign?  
 
I've been led to believe it's a sourcebook for a Golden Age Campaign 
background--although, as a GAC nut (I'm presently starting up the 
official WWII game of the Vieux Carre Universe, VC: ALLIED FORCES), I 
have to ask: 
 
Now that Hero Games is going back to doing actual book books, is some of 
the Hero Plus material going to be released as standard books? 
 
"It's almost Dante's Inferno, except the beer was cheaper in Hell, and 
the damned were smarter than this crowd." 
                    --Evan Dorkin, DORK #2 
____________________________________ 
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is 
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley 
_______________________________ 
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP 
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE 
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:02:09 -0500 (EST) 
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja) 
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality 
 
>From: ctaylor@viser.net (Christopher Taylor) 
 
>>Yeah but you know, it always ends up the 
>> guy with regeneration sucks up the most 
>> BOD damage, the guy with high defenses 
>> gets shot the most LOL cause as a GM you 
>> want it challenging and scary but you dont 
>> wanna butcher the PCs.  
 
Well, one of the comic book archtypes for immortal characters are those 
like Mr. Immortal, from The Great Lake Avengers/Lightning Rods or (to a 
lesser extent) Ra's ah Ghul.  Since they know they ae immortal, they end 
up taking risks that may be, ummm, inappropriate for the standard 
characters..... 
 
"It's almost Dante's Inferno, except the beer was cheaper in Hell, and 
the damned were smarter than this crowd." 
                    --Evan Dorkin, DORK #2 
____________________________________ 
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is 
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley 
_______________________________ 
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP 
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE 
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:56:53 -0500 (EST) 
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja) 
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality 
 
>From: nolan@erols.com (Scott Nolan) 
 
>>>Depends on the kind of campaign you run. 
>>> In a typical supers game, yeah, Mr 
>>> Immortal is only going to get to use his 
>>> powers if he has really low defenses vs 
>>> killing attacks. OTOH, if you run a game 
>>> where folks don't have Damage Resistance 
>>> or access to armor, guns can get more 
>>> lethal.   
 
>>And not everyone plays in superhero games. 
>> This power will be very useful in my Fantasy 
>> Hero game.  
 
...and not every supers game is totally safe-as-houses.  In World War II 
games, most supers traditionally are just normal guys with one or two 
gimmicks--so at least initially, the risk of life and limb is high.... 
 
"It's almost Dante's Inferno, except the beer was cheaper in Hell, and 
the damned were smarter than this crowd." 
                    --Evan Dorkin, DORK #2 
____________________________________ 
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is 
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley 
_______________________________ 
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP 
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE 
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:13:29 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: The Kandris Seal 
 
>   Not that I begrudge Steve and Bruce for this, at least more than a 
>smidge.  They have a *lot* of stuff going on, between Hero Plus, C:NM, Hero 
>Software, the online store, and other considerations.  If the book's 
 
>available by March 15, I'll be happy.  (If it isn't, I'll be in deep 
>kumquats with my creditors....) 
 
It's why I'm expecting to wait a while to hear from Bruce as to whether 
they'd like me to pick up and finish my old Lords of the Way suppliment, 
something I asked about a week ago.  He's always got a couple dozen balls in 
the air not counting what passes for his normal life. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:32:58 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Rules Changes in Hero Creator (was Re: Highland Immortality) 
 
> 
>> From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to> 
>> I agree with Bob: Wait for 5th Edition. Since the power is in Heromaker, 
>I 
>> think we can assume pretty well that Regeneration is going to include 
>Return 
>> from Death for 20 points.  
> 
>Just noticed this rules change myself. Has anyone spotted any others so 
>far? 
> 
>Guy 
 
I know there are modifications planned to Aid and Hand-to-Hand attack; I'm 
told they're pretty much the ones I use (Aid at 10/die, Hand to Hand attack 
treated as a net Limitation on Energy Blast much as Damage Shield is treated 
as a net advantage, at -1/2).  Since I don't have Win95+ yet, by copy of 
Hero Creator is, as of yet, a paperweight. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 13 Jan 1999 20:42:22 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
 
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Hash: SHA1 
 
"TG" == Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu> writes: 
 
TG> 	Now, if those same people showed up every 10 years to argue that 
TG> 1950 was the last year of the 40's, 1970 was the last year of the 60's, 
TG> 1980 was the last year of the 70's, etc, then perhaps things would be 
TG> different. 
 
Actually, 1985 was the last year of the 70's. 
 
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- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds. 
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 13 Jan 1999 20:39:59 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
 
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
Hash: SHA1 
 
Dunnow who wrote this, sorry: 
 
> One factor you didn't take into account, though: Aid allows you to bypass 
> campaign limits ofcharacteristic maxima, 
 
Since when? 
 
Aid adds character points to something the target has.  If those points 
cause that thing to exceed a characteristic maximum, damn straight the 
doubled cost applies. 
 
Only the GM is allowed to exceed campaign limits. 
 
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- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to 
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ Earth, presumably from outer space. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:52:34 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
 
>Well, the main problem was usually not aid directly, it was with the +2 
>'affects all powers in a group' advantage, or the +1/2 point per +1 max effect. 
>That and at 5 pts/die aid really _was_ too cheap for a healing effect, 
>particularly since it never defined how aid max actually worked for healing. 
 
The combination of the slower fade rate, increased maximum, and the ability 
to use it on multiple targets also got excessively clever.  After watching 
the Speed Booster pills in operation just once, I knew we had a problem: Aid 
Speed, 1D6 Aid (5 points), increase Maximum +14 (7 points)  Fade rate per 
hour (+3/4, adds up to an additional 9 points), 32 charges (another +1/4 or 
3 points).  Net cost, one player (the gadgeteer) spends 24 points to give 
five people an extra two speed points for an hour.  Try to find another 
clearly legal way to pull _that_ stunt. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:00:13 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
 
>But with say, Fantasy Hero, all the sudden cheap, minor spells based on AID 
>(like AID to give a sword extra damage) suddenly cost a ton more and dont 
>DO anything else.  And these werent unbalancing either... oh well. 
 
Actually, Fantasy Hero was the place I saw someone most misuse Aid.  it 
allows you to pull some seriously ugly stunts using the extra time 
Limitation and extended duration Aids. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:11:11 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question 
 
>It's never made sense to me that all these AoE options are +1 Advantages. 
>Say you have a 40 point Power that you make AoE: the radius option gives 
>you 360 degree coverage out to 4 hexes, covering a total of 37 hexes; using 
>A0E: Line on the same Power will cover only 16 hexes, which must be in a 
>straight line -- much more limited, but it's a +1 Advantage, same as Radius. 
 
The reason is, I'd care to hazard, is that it's much more controllable, 
especially in regard to damaging effects.  I may have to work to get full 
value out of the line, but I can still use it on a fairly consistent basis 
and avoid hitting friends and innocent bystanders.  That's not true of Radius. 
 
> 
>The bigger the base power, the bigger the discrepancy.  An 80 point Power 
>with AoE: Radius covers something like 270 hexes -- I'm not sure that 
>numner is exact -- while the same Power with AoE: Line only covers 32 hexes. 
> 
>*Either* option allows you to double the coverage for an additional +1/4 
>Advantage, as well, so you can get that 270 hex coverage for the 40 point 
>Power for little extra expense.   
> 
>How screwed up is this? 
 
See above.  It depends on the premium you put on avoiding the 'friendly 
fire' effect. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:28:26 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality 
 
>>It is a special effect, IMO.  Anyone of any consequence in such a campaign 
>>has the ability.  Since 'everyone' has it, it qualifies as an 'everyman' 
>>ability and costs nothing (which makes things easier on everyone playing). 
> 
> 
>That only helps if the character is being played in a game of that sort. 
> 
>I agree with Bob: Wait for 5th Edition. Since the power is in Heromaker, I 
>think we can assume pretty well that Regeneration is going to include Return 
>from Death for 20 points. As a stopgap measure, you could download the 
>Fuzion Superpowers rules from the Hero site, multiply the desired level of 
>Regeneration by 5 to get the Hero cost, and you're set til the rules change 
 
Uh, probably I'd just import the modifier.  They're addint the Immortality 
regeneration, but I don't think they're changing the way Regeneration works, 
and Fuzion regen is rather different than Hero regen. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:58:10 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality 
 
>>Or, a fantasy game for that matter.  'regenerate from death' is just what 
>>the doctor ordered for certain monsters (trolls, necromancers, various 
>>types of undead, etc). 
> 
>The funny thing is... until this came up I always figured you could regen 
>from any amount of damage if you had regeneration, I mean its not stated, 
>but its not really rejected either, and if you look at the source material 
>(comics AND fantasy) people who regenerate are nearly impossible to kill 
>except by a certain way... but now it costs 20 more points? 
 
Nothing in the rules also says that you have the ability to ignore death 
just because you get back Body rapidly.  And Hero _generally_ doesn't try 
for the maximal case;  there are a lot of rapidly healing individuals out 
there you can put down just by pumping enough damage into them, including 
apparently both Wolverine and Sabertooth (though both of them by Champions 
standards should also have a bit of resistant defense since the small wounds 
heal so fast, and probably fairly massive Body scores, at least around 20). 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:35:49 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
 
>At 10:36 AM 1/13/99 -0600, you wrote: 
>>In the campaign I'm playing in now, Aid costs 10 pts/die, not 5. In Hero 
>>Creator, how can I adjust this cost accordingly? 
> 
>Half the dice result?   I dont know, apparently HS5th is going to have this 
>as the rules, which to me seems... excessive, I ran the numbers on AID, 
>building it as straight character point cost and simulating it with 
>limitations and advantages, and it ends up being about 4.5 points per die 
>as I figured it, so we already are paying more than it is worth by my 
>numbers.  Aid is powerful, certainly, but not so powerful it ruins the game 
>by any thought (any more than transform or power pool).  It just requires 
>the caution that a power like that should require.   
 
You obviously haven't seen some of the more creative things that can be done 
with slow fade rate and/or increased Maximum Aids.  We've found it balances 
out _much_ better at 10/die...and seems more consistent with Transfer (Under 
the current rules, you can build a Cheaper Transfer out of Linking Aid and 
Drain than Transfer costs...which suggests a screwy cost somehwere, and 
since Aid is the Johnny-come-lately...). 
 
 
> 
 
------------------------------ 
 
End of champ-l-digest V1 #133 
***************************** 


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