Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 134
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 11:57 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #134
champ-l-digest Thursday, January 14 1999 Volume 01 : Number 134
In this issue:
Re: Highland Immortality
Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator
A seriously weird modification to speed
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Area Effect Question
HERO/RM Conversion?
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Highland Immortality
Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
Re: HERO/RM Conversion?
Re: CHAR: Son Goku
Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
Re: Highland Immortality
Re: CHAR: Son Goku
Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
Re: CHAR: Son Goku
Re: CHAR: Son Goku
Re: CHAR: Son Goku
Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
Re: Area Effect Question
Re: Paying for Equipment
Re: Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff
Re: Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:38:39 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
>>There are rumors that Champions 5th Edition will have the Regeneration
>>ability modeled like Fuzion, which has "regenerate from death" as one of the
>>options (it would be 20 points). If so, you take that and take the method of
>>permanently killing you as lopping off your head (you have to have a method
>>of being killed permanently).
>
>That bothers me in a basic way. I included a power that has a similar
>effect but really... how often will it come up? Just how many characters
>have you killed as a GM? How many of them didnt really "die" in a comic
>book manner? I mean does this really demand a 20 point power? Highlander
>on the TV show has this power but you know as well as I do he will NEVER
>get his head lopped off on the TV show.
Try to remember that the Hero System is used in a wide variety of campaign
types, some of which have a far higher mortality rate than a superhero
setting...and even superhero settings vary. I may not have killed many
Champions characters...but I've certainly killed Fantasy Hero ones, and
Hero/Bureau 13 ones. Even in Champs, it permits certain designs that
otherwise would be impossible, and some of them have considerable cost
savings. I know, because I have a character who would have been much
cheaper with it.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:48:04 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator
At 06:21 PM 1/13/99 -0600, you wrote:
>(a) by the book, you shouldn't be able to Aid part of a power (like "just
> the Aid Max"); Aid must affect the entire power.
I dont recall reading that, but two linked Aids would have the same effect
if so, just target both maxes with one, you can split the effect of an
adjustment power legally.
>(b) even without (a), Recursive Aid isn't that simple. You run into
> Fade Rate problems.
Just makes the active cost higher,
>(c) the +1/4 "longer fade rate" has to be bought on "Aid Max" extensions, too
I dont recall that being legal, it might be but I dont.. either way, see
above.
>(d) Aid only affects active points
It still works :) try it some time heheh its not infinite but the numbers
are pretty phenomenal.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:05:19 -0800
From: Max Callahan <mcallahan@home.com>
Subject: A seriously weird modification to speed
Problem: The speed chart causes strange artifacts in combat. IE "If I
haymaker now I know it will land 'cause I know my target will not act next
segment" Often players will do things simply because its's advantageous due
to how the phases play out.
Extremely Radical Solution that I put out for comment without actually
having tried:
Get rid of the speed chart entirely. On every segment have each combatint
roll a D12, if they roll their Speed or less they get an action. (As a
side note this also removes any problem with changing speed during a turn
as instead of changinh your action phases one is simply changing their
chance to act per segment.)
So, what do you all think?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:39:20 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
At 07:37 PM 1/13/99 -0500, Michael Sprague wrote:
>For a +1/2 Advantage, you can make a Force Wall transparent to Physical or
>Energy attacks. What I had never considered doing before would be to make
>it transparent to both (a +1 Advantage). I am not sure this is a good idea,
>because the wall needs very little in the line of DEF. You must buy the
>minimum of 10 points, however, so maybe that would work.
While arguably abusive, it gives the desired effect (as I understand it)
almost precisely. I'd probably allow it in my own game.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:41:16 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
At 12:52 AM 1/14/99 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
>cc: Hero List <hero-l@sysabend.org>
>Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
>
>> Considering that evening news consistently gets any tech or science story
>> messed up, this isn't a surprise. I have yet to see a single program that
>> can actually tell you the correct date the millenium will end. (Hint: It
>> isn't Dec 31, 1999.)
>
> Er, sorry. You lose this argument. Common Sense (No Such Animal,
>I know, but anyway) says that those first two digets are what matters.
>There are just too few voices out there trying to base things on a
>medieval Catholic calendar, which started on 1 instead of 0.
>
> Now, if those same people showed up every 10 years to argue that
>1950 was the last year of the 40's, 1970 was the last year of the 60's,
>1980 was the last year of the 70's, etc, then perhaps things would be
>different.
Maybe, maybe not.
Are we talking about the current year being the 1900s, or the 20th
Century? If the former, this is the last year of it, since that started in
1900; if the latter, next year will be the last year of the century, since
it started in 1901.
As someone else said, if we count this year as the last of the 20th
Century, then this Century only has 99 years in it.
It's not just a matter of common sense vs medieval Catholicism; it's a
matter of common opinion vs basic mathematics.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:42:18 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
Scott Nolan wrote:
>
> >>There are many powers in the HSR with their own areas of effect.
> >>Images is an example of what I mean - it covers a single hex,
> >>and you can pay to increase it's radius.
> >>
> >>That's what I have a question about, the radius. Suppose I want
> >>to use Images to simulate a long line of smoke screen. All I want
> >>is a screen 1 hex wide and many hexes long. Do I buy the radius
> >>to the length desired and 'lose' all the rest of the area?
> >
> >Try AOE: Line
>
> The rules specifically prohibit applying the AOE advantage to a power that
> already has an area.
I thought that as well. The only problem is that I couldn't find where
it was written when I went hunting for the reference.
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:36:49 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
>>For a +1/2 Advantage, you can make a Force Wall transparent to Physical or
>>Energy attacks. What I had never considered doing before would be to make
>>it transparent to both (a +1 Advantage). I am not sure this is a good idea,
>>because the wall needs very little in the line of DEF. You must buy the
>>minimum of 10 points, however, so maybe that would work.
>
> While arguably abusive, it gives the desired effect (as I understand it)
>almost precisely. I'd probably allow it in my own game.
I'd be inclined against it for the same reason I'd argue against using Images
or Change Environment to create Darkness: because there's another power
that is supposed to this. That makes it per se abusive, IMHO.
I'd rule that you can make FW transparent to EITHER physical or energy,
but not both.
On the other hand, I gotta say: I like it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would
think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying
'My mother, drunk or sober.'"
G.K. Chesterton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:20:08 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: HERO/RM Conversion?
Are there rules about for Rolemaster/Hero conversions? I've
just read another of ICE's wonderful Middle Earth books and
have a hankering to translate Middle Earth characters into
a -useful- format.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would
think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying
'My mother, drunk or sober.'"
G.K. Chesterton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:17:48 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
At 05:42 PM 1/14/99 -0800, Rick Holding wrote:
>Scott Nolan wrote:
>>
>> >>There are many powers in the HSR with their own areas of effect.
>> >>Images is an example of what I mean - it covers a single hex,
>> >>and you can pay to increase it's radius.
>> >>
>> >>That's what I have a question about, the radius. Suppose I want
>> >>to use Images to simulate a long line of smoke screen. All I want
>> >>is a screen 1 hex wide and many hexes long. Do I buy the radius
>> >>to the length desired and 'lose' all the rest of the area?
>> >
>> >Try AOE: Line
>>
>> The rules specifically prohibit applying the AOE advantage to a power that
>> already has an area.
>
> I thought that as well. The only problem is that I couldn't find
where
>it was written when I went hunting for the reference.
After a lengthy look, neither can I. I suspect it's in that FAQ that they
keep hidden alongside the Ark of the Covenant...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would
think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying
'My mother, drunk or sober.'"
G.K. Chesterton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:09:42 -0800
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
> Uh, probably I'd just import the modifier. They're addint the Immortality
> regeneration, but I don't think they're changing the way Regeneration works,
> and Fuzion regen is rather different than Hero regen.
Good point: just because they're importing the Immortality doesn't mean
they'll use the rest. I rather like the Fuzion rules on this myself,
though.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:26:02 EST
From: DaveKochs@aol.com
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
In a message dated 1/14/99 1:07:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mcallahan@home.com writes:
> Problem: The speed chart causes strange artifacts in combat. IE "If I
> haymaker now I know it will land 'cause I know my target will not act next
> segment" Often players will do things simply because its's advantageous due
> to how the phases play out.
> Extremely Radical Solution that I put out for comment without actually
> having tried:
> Get rid of the speed chart entirely. On every segment have each combatint
> roll a D12, if they roll their Speed or less they get an action. (As a
> side note this also removes any problem with changing speed during a turn
> as instead of changinh your action phases one is simply changing their
> chance to act per segment.)
> So, what do you all think?
Hmm, interesting. It would definitely return an element of uncertainty combat.
But, how that would affect powers/special effects based on speed, I don't
know.
This role could also provide an initiative system; beating your speed role by
x determines what order you would act in that segment.
The down sides that I can think of offhand are increased complexity of an
already loaded turn system, and player disdain for removing an easy rules
rape. (predicting opponents actions)
A solution I once used to solve the predictability problem was to use villains
who simply didn't follow the charts. (a speed 6 martial artist that went on
1,3,5,7,9,11) For the rules purists out there, yes, there are several (costly)
ways to legitimately model this.
Who ever said that the bad guys had to be at the same point level as the
heroes? :}
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 99 10:34:38
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: HERO/RM Conversion?
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:20:08 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>Are there rules about for Rolemaster/Hero conversions? I've
>just read another of ICE's wonderful Middle Earth books and
>have a hankering to translate Middle Earth characters into
>a -useful- format.
In the back of the FH sourcebook.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 99 10:07:39
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Son Goku
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:54:41 -0500 (EST), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>Super-Saiyajin Powers:
>50 Level One: Aid: 4d6 to STR, DEX, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN and
> Ki Powers Multipower (+2), Fades per Minute (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2),
> Full Phase (-1/2)
>32 Level Two: Aid: 4d6 STR, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN and
> Ki Powers Multipower (+2), Fades per 5 Minutes (+1/2),
> 0 END (+1/2),
> Linked to SSJ 1, SSJ 1 must have reched maximum Aid levels (-1),
> Full Phase (-1/2), Side Effect: 8d6 DEX Drain (-1)
Per the HSR, these may mot be cumulative - is that your intent?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 99 10:33:42
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:01:13 -0600 (Central Standard Time), Tim Gilberg
wrote:
>
>> Considering that evening news consistently gets any tech or science story
>> messed up, this isn't a surprise. I have yet to see a single program that
>> can actually tell you the correct date the millenium will end. (Hint: It
>> isn't Dec 31, 1999.)
>
> Er, sorry. You lose this argument. Common Sense (No Such Animal,
>I know, but anyway) says that those first two digets are what matters.
>There are just too few voices out there trying to base things on a
>medieval Catholic calendar, which started on 1 instead of 0.
Why not just be sensible and have two parties?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 99 10:26:59
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:05:19 -0800, Max Callahan wrote:
>Problem: The speed chart causes strange artifacts in combat. IE "If I
>haymaker now I know it will land 'cause I know my target will not act next
>segment" Often players will do things simply because its's advantageous due
>to how the phases play out.
>Extremely Radical Solution that I put out for comment without actually
>having tried:
>Get rid of the speed chart entirely. On every segment have each combatint
>roll a D12, if they roll their Speed or less they get an action. (As a
>side note this also removes any problem with changing speed during a turn
>as instead of changinh your action phases one is simply changing their
>chance to act per segment.)
>So, what do you all think?
Add +1 for each roll that fails. This has been suggested in Adventurers
Club, and several variants proposed here.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:23:32 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Highland Immortality
>> Uh, probably I'd just import the modifier. They're addint the Immortality
>> regeneration, but I don't think they're changing the way Regeneration works,
>> and Fuzion regen is rather different than Hero regen.
>
>Good point: just because they're importing the Immortality doesn't mean
>they'll use the rest. I rather like the Fuzion rules on this myself,
>though.
I have mixed feelings about it; in practice it can make a minimal amount of
regeneration far more expensive than under the current system, which I don't
think is a good idea. I like it on a design issue (it's elegant) but don't
think I like the cost. It's also far less reverse-compatible than any of
the few other small changes they've talked about for Fifth.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:10:10 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
From: Kevin Eav <ukyou@maison-otaku.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Son Goku
> >Super-Saiyajin Powers:
> >50 Level One: Aid: 4d6 to STR, DEX, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN and
> > Ki Powers Multipower (+2), Fades per Minute (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2),
> > Full Phase (-1/2)
> >32 Level Two: Aid: 4d6 STR, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN and
> > Ki Powers Multipower (+2), Fades per 5 Minutes (+1/2),
> > 0 END (+1/2),
> > Linked to SSJ 1, SSJ 1 must have reched maximum Aid levels (-1),
> > Full Phase (-1/2), Side Effect: 8d6 DEX Drain (-1)
>
> Per the HSR, these may mot be cumulative - is that your intent?
> qts
It might require a bending of the rules. The Super Saiyajin
transformations can't be 'skipped', or somesuch--i.e. Goku can't just
choose to go SSJ 2 instead of SSJ 1--so the intent is cumulative.
Hey. These're the Saiyajin, arguably the most physically powerful beings
ever published, along with the Iczers and the Iczelions. You're just
gonna _NEED_ to bend some rules a little to represent 'em. :) Not, I
suspect, that any sane GM would allow a Saiyajin unless they're running a
straight Dragonball game.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
| ukyou@maison-otaku.net | Church of Ryouga (1st Deacon, Sacred Compass |
|http://www.maison-otaku.net/~ukyou/ (Under construction, as always. :) |
| Kaoru no Miko, Yakumo no Miko, Kenshin no Miko, Nima no Miko |
| Shidou Hikaru no Miko, Ryuuzaki Umi no Miko, Hououji Fuu No Miko |
| Yes, I MUCK. Where? Just about everywhere. ;) |
|"We are the music-makers; we are the dreamers of dreams." - Willy Wonka|
| "Yooh! Obake-chan!" - Tasuki, Fushigi Yuugi |
| "Sana-chan, there's trouble! Use your henshin burachaa!" |
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:53:15 EST
From: SteveL1979@aol.com
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
In a message dated 1/14/99 1:07:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mcallahan@home.com writes:
<< Get rid of the speed chart entirely. On every segment have each combatint
roll a D12, if they roll their Speed or less they get an action. (As a
side note this also removes any problem with changing speed during a turn
as instead of changinh your action phases one is simply changing their
chance to act per segment.)
So, what do you all think? >>
One of my gaming groups tried this for a while. It didn't work out. My
character, the big dumb brick (SPD 5) seemed to end up going an average of
about 7 times per Turn. The acrobatic Batman-type (SPD 6) was lucky to go 3
times per Turn average. Just the luck of the dice -- but not much fun for
most of us (me, I had a ball :) ).
Another thing I've seen tried is letting people pick their Phases (i.e., if
you're SPD 5, you go on any five Segments you want to). However, this just
changes the mechanics and logistics of playing the SPD Chart; it doesn't
eliminate the problem.
Steve Long
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:20:53 -0500
From: "Geoff Depew" <mephron@idt.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Son Goku
- -----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Eav <ukyou@maison-otaku.net>
>> >Super-Saiyajin Powers:
>> >50 Level One: Aid: 4d6 to STR, DEX, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN and
>> > Ki Powers Multipower (+2), Fades per Minute (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2),
>> > Full Phase (-1/2)
>> >32 Level Two: Aid: 4d6 STR, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN and
>> > Ki Powers Multipower (+2), Fades per 5 Minutes (+1/2),
>> > 0 END (+1/2),
>> > Linked to SSJ 1, SSJ 1 must have reched maximum Aid levels (-1),
>> > Full Phase (-1/2), Side Effect: 8d6 DEX Drain (-1)
>>
>> Per the HSR, these may mot be cumulative - is that your intent?
>> qts
>It might require a bending of the rules. The Super Saiyajin
>transformations can't be 'skipped', or somesuch--i.e. Goku can't just
>choose to go SSJ 2 instead of SSJ 1--so the intent is cumulative.
>
>Hey. These're the Saiyajin, arguably the most physically powerful beings
>ever published, along with the Iczers and the Iczelions. You're just
>gonna _NEED_ to bend some rules a little to represent 'em. :) Not, I
>suspect, that any sane GM would allow a Saiyajin unless they're running a
>straight Dragonball game.
Is this the part where we all grimace and mutter about the fact that the
writer of the DBZ Fuzion game appears to be SPD 1?
Just think: a game where the GM can literally throw ANYTHING up to and
including a rogue planet at the PCs...
(No, really. Piccolo Daimaioh, in the series, to solve a problem with a
werecreature, blows up the moon. Yet another in a line of "I Am Not
Kidding" concepts from Toriyama Akira, the man whose demented mind brought
you Dragonball Z.)
- ------------------------------
Geoff Depew - mephron@otaking.org - SemiGod without a congregation
webbing at http://www.otaking.org/~mephron/ for gaming information
Now running: Cyberpunk: Flashbacks 2024 - Star Wars: Invocations
Now planning: Final Fantasy VII Hero (the only game where "Images, Linked
To" is a NEED, not a joke).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:00:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Son Goku
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Geoff Depew wrote:
> >Hey. These're the Saiyajin, arguably the most physically powerful beings
> >ever published, along with the Iczers and the Iczelions. You're just
> >gonna _NEED_ to bend some rules a little to represent 'em. :) Not, I
> >suspect, that any sane GM would allow a Saiyajin unless they're running a
> >straight Dragonball game.
>
> Is this the part where we all grimace and mutter about the fact that the
> writer of the DBZ Fuzion game appears to be SPD 1?
Yeah, I think so. Which is why I forged ahead with my conversions
attempt, the 'offical' sourcebook be damned!
> Just think: a game where the GM can literally throw ANYTHING up to and
> including a rogue planet at the PCs...
Or the 'Big Gheti Star'!
> (No, really. Piccolo Daimaioh, in the series, to solve a problem with a
> werecreature, blows up the moon. Yet another in a line of "I Am Not
> Kidding" concepts from Toriyama Akira, the man whose demented mind brought
> you Dragonball Z.)
And may I point out that my conversions are *not* as powerful as the real
DBZ characters? I honestly tried to preserve some element of playability
with the designs (yes, even with the 1000+ point ones).
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:55:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Son Goku
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Kevin Eav wrote:
> > >Super-Saiyajin Powers:
> > >50 Level One: Aid: 4d6 to STR, DEX, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN and
> > > Ki Powers Multipower (+2), Fades per Minute (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2),
> > > Full Phase (-1/2)
> > >32 Level Two: Aid: 4d6 STR, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN and
> > > Ki Powers Multipower (+2), Fades per 5 Minutes (+1/2),
> > > 0 END (+1/2),
> > > Linked to SSJ 1, SSJ 1 must have reched maximum Aid levels (-1),
> > > Full Phase (-1/2), Side Effect: 8d6 DEX Drain (-1)
> >
> > Per the HSR, these may mot be cumulative - is that your intent?
Yes they are cumulative. The SSJ 1 Aid must top out before you can use
the SSJ 2 Aid. One could treat them as a big 8d6 Aid with a number of
special limitations on the latter 4d6 Aid dice.
> It might require a bending of the rules. The Super Saiyajin
> transformations can't be 'skipped', or somesuch--i.e. Goku can't just
> choose to go SSJ 2 instead of SSJ 1--so the intent is cumulative.
Right. But, he can got to SSJ 3 straight from SSJ 1... of course that 3rd
Stage Power Level is pretty silly soo...
> Hey. These're the Saiyajin, arguably the most physically powerful beings
> ever published, along with the Iczers and the Iczelions. You're just
I'm going to take a hack at the Iczers... really... someday.
> gonna _NEED_ to bend some rules a little to represent 'em. :) Not, I
> suspect, that any sane GM would allow a Saiyajin unless they're running a
> straight Dragonball game.
Not a 1110 point character... no, but I was able to create a 450 point
version for a PBEM game. Kayli the Destroyer did pretty well. (And Kayli
followed the DBZ naming convention. Kayli = Kale)
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jan 1999 09:38:38 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"MC" == Max Callahan <mcallahan@home.com> writes:
MC> Problem: The speed chart causes strange artifacts in combat. IE "If I
MC> haymaker now I know it will land 'cause I know my target will not act
MC> next segment"
Wrong on two counts. One: you still have to make an attack roll.
Two: "I abort to dodge".
MC> Often players will do things simply because its's advantageous due
MC> to how the phases play out.
Just like real life, believe it or not.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:45:32 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to speed
At 10:05 PM 1/13/99 -0800, Max Callahan wrote:
>Problem: The speed chart causes strange artifacts in combat. IE "If I
>haymaker now I know it will land 'cause I know my target will not act next
>segment" Often players will do things simply because its's advantageous due
>to how the phases play out.
>Extremely Radical Solution that I put out for comment without actually
>having tried:
>Get rid of the speed chart entirely. On every segment have each combatint
>roll a D12, if they roll their Speed or less they get an action. (As a
>side note this also removes any problem with changing speed during a turn
>as instead of changinh your action phases one is simply changing their
>chance to act per segment.)
>So, what do you all think?
It's been proposed before, and it's playable if there are enough d12s
available to go around, and if people don't mind the weird effect this
would have on the cost of maintaining Continuing Powers.
Based on Steve's remarks, I'd recommend adding a rule that, once a
character has had a number of Phases equal to SPD, that character's Phases
are over for the remainder of the Turn. Once everyone's had all his (or
her, or its) Phases, you have those Post-12 Recovery thingies and start
over.
- ---
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http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:52:41 -0500
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
Redeeming Gaming Value Statement: the subject actually comes up when
writing chronologies for campaigns. If your FH world reckons time by
regnal year, does the King ascend the throne in the year zero, or the
year one? When is the Bicentennial of the Federation celebrated?
;-)
geoff heald wrote:
>
> >can actually tell you the correct date the millenium will end. (Hint: It
> >isn't Dec 31, 1999.)
> >
> >Filksinger
> I read a news story that directly addressed this issue. It pointed out
> that 100 years ago, the scientific and political communities ran pretty
> much without interference from the public, but today, public opinion can
> influence major decisions. So, since the tide of public opinion has turned
> against the official time-keepers, the 20th century will be the only
> century to have only 99 years.
That phraseology originated with Steven Jay Gould, a person for whom, up
to that idiotic statement (and a few others recently made on other
subjects), I had a great deal of respect. As an historian of science,
he should be more careful. After all, we are talking about arithmetic.
Does the fact that a majority thinks that pi is exactly 22/7 change the
value of pi? (all right, a majority of those who even know about pi).
A majority of Americans now believe in astrology. Is Dr. Gould going to
give up his battle against it?
The National Bureau of Standards issued a lovely little booklet entitled
"The Battle of the Centuries" tracing back this argument, unchanged in
its essentials, to the year 1600, at which point the written record gets
thin. They make the point, if I may quote from memory, that, "There has
never been any system of chronology, whether based on the reign of a
King, or the founding of Rome, or any other date real or mythical that
did not begin its era with the year 1."
There was, in fact, a small movement to abandon the use of Anno Domani
reckoning in favor of Year of Independence reckoning. In this system,
the year 1776 AD would become the year 1, not the year zero. In fact,
on official documents you may sometimes see the style, "On the 5th day
of July, in the Year of our Lord the 1800th and of the Independence of
the United States the twenty-fifth." In this reckoning, which kept
January 1 as the beginning of the year, the resolution of Independence
passed the Continental Congress on July 2, 1 US, and the bicentennial of
the Declaration of Independence was celebrated on July 4, 201 US.
Similarly, IIRC, the French Revolutionary calendar abandoned AD
reckoning along with the traditional names of the months and seven-day
weeks. I forget what they chose as the year 1 (the fall of the
Bastille?) but they did start with the year 1, not the year zero.
By the way, the choice of New Year's day has not always been January 1.
In Republican Rome, it was the first New Moon of Spring, based on the
astronomical observations of the priests. Since this was subject to
error and abuse (magistrates often bribed the priests to extend their
terms a few months), the Julian calendar adopted a fixed date: January
1. When Dennis the Short devised Anno Domini reckoning, he did not
change New Year's day; however, for several centuries, most of England
(and the Colonies) celebrated New Years day (and incremented the year)
on March 25th (as the official first day of Spring). This causes no end
of fun when looking at older documents. One has to realize that March
24th, 1665 is likely to be a year *after* March 25th 1665!
Of course, all this gets neatened up when we do modern translations and
editions of older texts. Careful editors footnote such things; others
do not.
Robert A. West
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:51:32 -0500
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions)
Filksinger wrote:
>
> From: Michael Sprague <msprague@eznet.net>
>
> <snip>
> >Sorry. Y2K is indeed a serious issue, but it also gets blown out of
> >proportion by people who don't understand what the problems are (again, I'm
> >not picking on MWStrong) . I have even seen outright untruths about the
> >issue on the evening news.
>
> Considering that evening news consistently gets any tech or science story
> messed up, this isn't a surprise. I have yet to see a single program that
> can actually tell you the correct date the millenium will end. (Hint: It
> isn't Dec 31, 1999.)
>
> Filksinger
Actually, I have seen several newscasters note the facts correctly, and
then get back to their story about the impending champaign shortage on
New Year's eve 1999, or whatever.
What bugs me more, no pun intended, are newscasters who deride
programmers of the late 1960s and 1970s for beign shortsighted, lazy or
just plain stupid.
<soapbox>
While there is IMHO no excuse for two-digit years in any system for
which the basic design was done after 1985, much of the problem results
from code written from 1968 to 1976, including later enhancements to
that code as well as programs that had to accept the date formats layed
down in that era.
I would argue that what we have are the unintended consequences of a
success story. Prior to 1968, when the IBM 360 computer became
ubiquitous, and ANSI issued standards for the COBOL and FORTRAN
compilers, there were many competing and incompatible computer
architectures and languages. Many of these lasted only about three or
four years, before being replaced by something newer, at which point all
the programs had to be completely rewritten.
By that logic, the programs written in 1968 would be rewritten at least
five times before the end of the century. I remember raising the Y2K
issue as early as 1972, and being literally laughed at for my
presumption that any programs would have a useful life of a
quarter-century. Experience up to that time was completely contrary:
programs had a life of three to five years before some new advance made
them obsolete.
As to whether it was really necessary to save those few bytes, most
newscasters don't realize that memory was EXPENSIVE. High-speed main
memory cost around $0.10 per BIT in those days, and a dime bought a loaf
of bread on sale. A mainframe with 64KB of memory was considered a
large machine. CDC6600s with 256K *words* of memory (and a word size of
60 bits) were considered unbelievably HUGE. Virtual storage was a new
and experimental concept, of doubtful practicality.
As an example of the degree of incompatibility between systems, the size
of the byte did not become universally eight bits until around 1980. In
fact, to this day, ANSI defines the byte as the smallest unit of memory
that can be directly addressed in a particular machine. The size of the
unit is up to the manufacturer. Furthermore, there was no
standardization of data representations. There were at least four
character representations in wide use during the period:
EBCDIC (8-bit)
CDC (6-bit)
ASCII (7-bit)
ASCII (8-bit, only after 1974 or so)
There were *six* incompatible ways of representing a binary integer in
general use. For example, using three bits plus sign:
Description +5 -5 Maker (IIRC)
High-order sign, two's complement 0101 1011 IBM, DEC
High-order sign, one's complement 0101 1010 CDC, Univac
High-order sign, non-complement 0101 1101 Honeywell
Low-order sign, one's complement 1010 0101 RCA, Burroughs
Low-order sign, positive high 1011 1010 Sperry-Rand
Low-order first, sign last, 2s comp: 1010 1101 NCR
At some point, most everyone went over to one of the first two methods,
and nowadays everyone uses the first method, but in the days when
assembler code was still considered more efficient than compiled code,
it made a lot of difference.
So, what is the success story? The success is threefold: first, the
fundamentals of CISC machine design layed down by IBM and DEC in that
period are still the fundamentals of CISC machine design used today,
including the Pentium chip. Second, the success of IBM's concept of
upward compatibility, which meant that new design concepts (such as
Virtrual Storage) were implemented in a way that allowed existing
programs to be run. Third, the compilers, applications and concepts
(structured design, multitasking) layed down in the 1968 to 1976 era
mostly continue to do an adequate job today. That isn't bad for
programs that were only supposed to last three to seven years before
being superceded by the next wave of technology!
</soapbox>
Robert A. West
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:44:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question
>>The rules specifically prohibit applying the AOE advantage
>>to a power that already has an area.
REALLY? I don't think I've ever enforced as a GM.
(or had that enforced on a character of mine ;)
What page of the HSR is that on?
==
Elliott aka The Egyptoid
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:22:58 -0500
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment
Christopher Taylor quoted someone, whose identity I have lost track of:
>
> >>I charge a silver per active point cost of an item for base magic item
> >>value, but you know... few people sell items, cause they are like heirlooms
> >>and treasures for anyone. Especially the guy who spent XPS makin it.
If you don't think that heirlooms and treasures are sold for money, go
to an auction house sometime. If a magical sword is inherited by a
burgher with no interest in fighting, he may well sell it for a
substantial sum. What about the aging warrior who wishes to retire to a
quiet life, and could really use the cash?
In the real world (ITRW?) people do sell things they have spent years of
their lives making. In a Corporations campaign, one would certainly
invest XP in building a company, yet NPCs would certainly be selling
small to medium-sized Corporations.
Robert A. West
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:12:46 EST
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Subject: Re: Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff
>Now that Hero Games is going back to doing actual book books, is some
>of
>the Hero Plus material going to be released as standard books?
IIRC, the updated Ultimate Martial Artist will be coming out in both
paper and disk forms. I think other new releases will be in both
formats, but I have no idea if previous releases will be turned into
paper books.
Leah
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:12:46 EST
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Subject: Re: Current Hero/GRG/Hero Plus Stuff
>What new Champions (and C:NM) stuff is out, either in paper or as Hero
>Plus stuff? I have Bay City, Alliances, C:NM (PsychLim:Must buy Hero
>Products, Unc., Total) but the last thing I got from GRG was Heroic
>Adventures Vol. 2. Their Web Site says it is in second printing, but I
>couldn't figure out how to order it on-line.
Last time I was at the GRG web page, they didn't have direct on-line
ordering. If you don't want to phone in an order (toll-free, direct to
them -- you don't need to worry about a telemarketing service messing up
your order), you may want to check out Internet game stores.
San Angelo is here, and I'll join the people giving it rave reviews.
PRIMUS is out on disk, and while I would have run a few things
differently it's a big improvement over the original Organization Book.
(Killing Golden Avenger Kaufman was an improvement all on it's own, but
there's more.) I don't have Unknown Eagles yet, the Hero online store
went down before I could order it. There's a relatively new Dark
Champions setting on disk, Widows and Orphans. I looked at the preview
download, and decided it was too dark for my tastes. I believe there's
some Fantasy Hero on disk, and a SF setting, but I haven't looked at them
so I can't give any details.
Leah
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------------------------------
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