Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 138

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 4:51 PM 
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #138 
 
 
champ-l-digest        Friday, January 15 1999        Volume 01 : Number 138 
 
 
 
In this issue: 
 
    Re: Area Effect Question 
    Re: How to explode 
    Re: Aragorn: Character 
    Re: Problems with Uncontrolled and Continuous (Attn: Steve Long) 
    Broken Kingdoms - attn Steve Long 
    Re: Tolkien Characters 
    Re: Broken Kingdoms - attn Steve Long 
    Re: Aragorn: Character 
    Re: Paying for Equipment 
    Re: How to explode 
    Re: Broken Kingdoms - attn Steve Peterson 
    Re: How to explode 
    Re: Paying for Equipment 
    Re: Upcoming Champions books 
    Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
    Re: How to explode 
    Re: How to explode 
    Re: Paying for Equipment 
    Re: How to explode 
    Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
    Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
    Re: Y2k bug [VCR Fun] 
    Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
    Re: Aragorn: Character 
    Cool Game Stuff 
    Re: Aragorn: Character 
    Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
    Re: Upcoming Champions books 
    Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
    Re: Cool Game Stuff 
    Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
    Re: Cool Game Stuff 
    Re: A seriously weird modification to speed 
    Re: Aragorn: Character 
    Re: Point balance vs. Power balance 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:36:57 -0800 
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au> 
Subject: Re: Area Effect Question 
 
Scott Nolan wrote: 
 
> >> The rules specifically prohibit applying the AOE advantage to a power that 
> >> already has an area. 
> > 
> >       I thought that as well.  The only problem is that I couldn't find where 
> >it was written when I went hunting for the reference. 
>  
> After a lengthy look, neither can I.  I suspect it's in that FAQ that they 
> keep hidden alongside the Ark of the Covenant... 
 
	I don't think so.  I have definitely seen it in hardcopy SOMEWHERE!!  
For the life of me, I just can't remember where. 
 
 
- --  
Rick Holding 
 
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common... 
   or if you prefer...  You call this logic ? 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:11:16 -0800 
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au> 
Subject: Re: How to explode 
 
Scott Nolan wrote: 
>  
> At 04:33 PM 1/14/99 -0800, Kirk Lund wrote: 
> >I'm designing a character that has an "explosive" personality.  Well, ok, 
> >what I mean is if he impacts with something going at a minimum of 
> >20" velocity I want to fire off an Energy Blast Explosion, No Range.  Now 
> >Damage Shield doesn't look quite right, nor does Trigger.  Do I simply 
> >need to combine one of these with some Adv or Lim, or is there some 
> >completely other way to do it? 
> > 
> >Let's go further: He also needs to explode if he's smashed under great 
> >weight, even if he isn't travelling fast.  Is there a way to make the whole 
> >thing work with one power and some Advs/Lims? 
>  
> 15d6 EB, Explosion (+1/2), Damage Shield (+1/2), Only if impacted at 
> high speed (20") or with crushing force (-1/2), No Range  (-1/2) 
>  
> 150 AP, 75 real. 
 
	Close.  Damage shield automatically makes the attack no range.  So 150 
AP, 100 real.  Still will need other disads to bring the cost down.  
Should also need to have personal immunity and reduced endurance 
otherwise the character will be asleep till Doomsday. 
 
	On the other hand, can it be considered that the damage shield 
advantage confers personal immunity?  Hmmm.... 
 
- --  
Rick Holding 
 
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common... 
   or if you prefer...  You call this logic ? 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:23:21 -0800 
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au> 
Subject: Re: Aragorn: Character 
 
Scott Nolan wrote: 
>  
> ARAGORN 
>  
> 18      STR     8 
> 14      DEX     12 
> 18      CON     16 
> 16      BODY    12 
> 16      INT     6 
> 23      EGO     26 
> 23      PRE     13 
> 8       COM     -1 
 
Only 8? While, IIRC, he had some facial scars, I think he was still 
considered to be good looking, if a bit rugged. 
 
> 12      PD      8 
> 10      ED      6 
> 5       SPD     26 
> 20      REC     24 
> 60      END     12 
> 75      STUN    41 
> Characteristics Cost: 209 
>  
> 4       WF,Common Melee,Common Missile 
> 30      3 Levels,all skills (Figured in below) 
> 32      4 Levels,all combat 
>  
> 3       Concealment 15- 
> 3       High Society 17- 
> 3       Mimicry 14- 
> 9       Navigation 17- 
> 3       Oratory 17- 
 
	And conversation? 
 
> 3       Riding 15- 
> 5       Shadowing 15- 
> 5       Stealth 16- 
> 7       Survival 16- 
> 9       Tactics 18- 
> 7       Tracking 17- 
 
	I would probarly consider adding a few inches of extra running here as 
well.  While an increase in speed increases overall running speed, an 
extra 2 inches could be justified. 
 
> 1       TF,Ships 
>  
> 3       Linguist 
> 1       Lang: Westron,native,literacy 
> 3       Lang: Numenorean,fluent w/accent,literacy 
> 3       Lang: Sindarin,fluent w/accent,literacy 
> 3       Lang: Quenya,fluent w/accent,literacy 
> 2       Lang: Harad,fluent conversation,literacy 
>  
> 3       AK: Eriador 15- 
> 3       AK: Gondor 15- 
> 3       KS: Dunadan History 15- 
> 3       KS: Elven History 15- 
> 3       KS: Hidden Councils of the Wise 15- 
> 5       KS: Herb Lore 17- 
>  
> 20      6D6 Healing,"Healing Hands", Gradual 
>  
> 3       Bump Of Direction 
> 7       14- Combat Sense 
> 5       Defense Maneuver 
>  
> 10      Head of State 
>  
> 24      Package,"Anduril",OAF,unbreakable,extremely hard        4 
> (15)    3D6 Killing Attack  HTH,STR Min 13      4 
> (4)     5 Levels 
 
	I get the impression that these are 2 point levels.  If so, they can 
not be placed under any limitations.  They would need to be 5 point 
levels. 
 
> (5)     +2 Detect,"Orcs and other Dark Creatures",make into sense, 
>         Desc: Glowing Blade, Ranged 
>  
> Powers Cost: 228 
> Total Cost: 437 
>  
> Base Points: 75 
> 10      Distinctive Features,"Dunadan",concealable,minor 
> 10      Hunted,"Sauron's Minions",as powerful,harsh,appear 8 
> 5       Watched,"The Wise",as powerful,harsh,appear 8 
> 10      Psychological Limitation,"Driven to Reunite Kingdom", 
>          uncommon,strong 
> 15      Psychological Limitation,"Love for Arwen",uncommon,total 
> 20      Psychological Limitation,"Must Protect The Weak",common, 
>          total 
> 5       Reputation,"Drifter",occur 8 
> 15      Secret ID,"Isildur's Heir" 
> 272     Feel Foul, Seem Fair Bonus 
>  
> Disadvantages Total: 362 
> Experience Spent: 0 
> Total Points: 437 
 
- --  
Rick Holding 
 
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common... 
   or if you prefer...  You call this logic ? 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 99 12:32:20  
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: Problems with Uncontrolled and Continuous (Attn: Steve Long) 
 
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:00:16 -0500, Joe Mucchiello wrote: 
 
>Order the advantages?  They are not the same power: 
>a) 1D6 RKA, AOE Radius, Continuous, Uncontrolled (Until fire put out), 1D6 
>RKA, Continuous, Uncontrolled (Until fire put out), Trigger (Leaving the 
>original AOE), Linked (AOE attack).  (Requires a linked power so that it 
>will continue to affect the target if they leave the area.) 
 
As an aside, you don't need two linked powers, you just need the Sticky 
Advantage. 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 99 14:54:55  
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Broken Kingdoms - attn Steve Long 
 
How do I get hold of this? I can't seem to order it from the Web site 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 99 14:49:29  
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: Tolkien Characters 
 
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:35:03 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote: 
 
>In all the repositories of Hero Characters out there, has anyone  
>ever done all the characters from "The Lord of the Rings" 
>or "The Silmarillion"? 
 
ICE did a Lords of Middle Earth - did that have Hero conversions? 
 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:22:28 -0500 (EST) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> 
Subject: Re: Broken Kingdoms - attn Steve Long 
 
On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, qts wrote: 
 
> How do I get hold of this? I can't seem to order it from the Web site 
 
Steve Long has nothing to do with that.  Try Hero games directly. 
 
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com  
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html 
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 99 14:31:50  
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: Aragorn: Character 
 
On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:17:25 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote: 
 
>30	3 Levels,all skills (Figured in below)	 
 
Don't do this! A Skill level can only be applied to one skill at a time 
(HSR p 38), so when Complementary Skills are used, the Skill Level will 
apply to one or the other, but not both. 
 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 99 14:46:03  
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment 
 
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:18:06 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote: 
 
> Alchemists 
>and herbalists make potions no problem, thats a question of combining the 
>right things, 
 
But those are just Effects with the Trigger Advantage, and do not 
involve the actual expenditure of CPs. 
 
And before anyone comes along with Aid, losing 5 CP/century or similar, 
remember (1) Dispel (2) Aids are only cumulative up to the maximum 
possible on the dice, unless specifically increased. 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:55:54 -0600 (CST) 
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> 
Subject: Re: How to explode 
 
On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Rick Holding wrote: 
> Scott Nolan wrote: 
> 	On the other hand, can it be considered that the damage shield 
> advantage confers personal immunity?  Hmmm.... 
 
Nope, it doesn't, any more than a No Range Explosion does.  You normally 
aren't affected by your own Damage Shield for the same reasons you 
normally aren't affected by your own punches, but if you have an Explosive 
or AE Damage Shield, you'll need PI or enough other defenses to shrug it 
off if you don't want to take the damage. 
 
J 
 
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent.              Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com 
Qui annus est?                                   http://www.io.com/~jeffj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:32:56 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Broken Kingdoms - attn Steve Peterson 
 
At 02:54 PM 1/15/99, qts wrote: 
>How do I get hold of this? I can't seem to order it from the Web site 
 
   The Hero Games Online Store is currently down, so you'll have to either 
wait for it to come back up or try to order it through your local game 
store.  (If you have no luck with that, don't feel badly; I've been having 
similar problems with getting a copy of PRIMUS.) 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 99 14:38:19  
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: How to explode 
 
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:33:15 -0800, Kirk Lund wrote: 
 
>I'm designing a character that has an "explosive" personality.  Well, ok, 
>what I mean is if he impacts with something going at a minimum of 
>20" velocity I want to fire off an Energy Blast Explosion, No Range.  Now 
>Damage Shield doesn't look quite right, nor does Trigger.  Do I simply 
>need to combine one of these with some Adv or Lim, or is there some 
>completely other way to do it? 
> 
>Let's go further: He also needs to explode if he's smashed under great 
>weight, even if he isn't travelling fast.  Is there a way to make the whole 
>thing work with one power and some Advs/Lims? 
 
EB, Explosion, No Range. If he doesn't get hurt by the EB, then add in 
Personal Immunity. Add in a Limitation: Power goes off automatically if 
X for -1/4 to -1/2 depending upon how likely this is. 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 99 14:42:26  
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment 
 
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:22:58 -0500, Robert A. West wrote: 
 
>Christopher Taylor quoted someone, whose identity I have lost track of: 
>>  
>> >>I charge a silver per active point cost of an item for base magic item 
>> >>value, but you know... few people sell items, cause they are like heirlooms 
>> >>and treasures for anyone.  Especially the guy who spent XPS makin it. 
> 
>If you don't think that heirlooms and treasures are sold for money, go 
>to an auction house sometime.  If a magical sword is inherited by a 
>burgher with no interest in fighting, he may well sell it for a 
>substantial sum.  What about the aging warrior who wishes to retire to a 
>quiet life, and could really use the cash? 
 
IMC in each case they'd *trade* it for a something of equal worth - a 
patent of nobility or sinecure respectively as examples - or keep it to 
be used by a trusted servant or as an inheritance/dowry. 
 
YMMV 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:57:28 -0600 
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net> 
Subject: Re: Upcoming Champions books 
 
Not sure exactly; the player in question was Will Tharp.  If pressed to 
answer I would say Hollywood Knights, but I could easily be wrong.  I'll 
ask him this weekend. 
 
Guy 
 
- ---------- 
> From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com> 
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org 
> Subject: Re: Upcoming Champions books 
> Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 2:06 PM 
>  
> >From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com> 
> > 
> >||I can't speak for Tarot, but Gestalt is _anything_ but generic, and 
I've 
> >|always thought Strike Force had enough clever bits and odd corners to 
be 
> >|distinctive.  Of course, I think that's true of the New Millenium 
setting 
> >too. 
> > 
> >FWIW, one of the players in my cgroup used to be in the original Gestalt 
> >campaign, and he's always spoken highly of it. And there are several 
files 
> >related to Gestalt on the Red October website, at 
> >http://www.mactyre.net/october 
>  
> Which of the originals?  There have been three Gestalt campaigns: the New 
> Columbians, the Hollywood Knights (which I was in) and, hurm, I've done a 
> blank on the third one suddenly. 
>  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:22:56 -0500 
From: Glen Sprigg <borealis@cois.on.ca> 
Subject: Re: Y2k bug (from predictions) 
 
>	Interesting.  Anyway, I'm not gonna buck popular opinion, though 
>two straight new years of parties sounds good to me.  Instead of calling 
>the 20th century the only one with only 99 years, just consider that first 
>one to be a bit short--or to include 1 BC as a shared year or something. 
>Just a bit of RetConning, nothing new. 
> 
How about this little tidbit?  Research by biblical scholars determined 
that Christ wasn't even born in the year 1 AD; he was actually born between 
3 and 7 BC. So we've already actually passed the second millenium since 
Christ's birth. 
 
All those who will allow this information to dampen their enthusiasm for 
the World's Ultimate Party in less than 12 months may raise their hands... 
 
Glen 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:26:47 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: How to explode 
 
At 04:33 PM 1/14/99 -0800, Kirk Lund wrote: 
>I'm designing a character that has an "explosive" personality.  Well, ok, 
>what I mean is if he impacts with something going at a minimum of 
>20" velocity I want to fire off an Energy Blast Explosion, No Range.  Now 
>Damage Shield doesn't look quite right, nor does Trigger.  Do I simply 
>need to combine one of these with some Adv or Lim, or is there some 
>completely other way to do it? 
> 
>Let's go further: He also needs to explode if he's smashed under great 
>weight, even if he isn't travelling fast.  Is there a way to make the whole 
>thing work with one power and some Advs/Lims? 
 
   I think I'd call it a Damage Shield Explosion, with a Limitation that it 
only goes off under these certain circumstances (when he takes a certain 
level of Normal Physical damage, it looks like). 
   A question: does he explode himself (hopefully to later reassemble), or 
is it just some energy inside him that explodes? 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:38:39 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: How to explode 
 
At 10:11 PM 1/15/99 -0800, Rick Holding wrote: 
>Scott Nolan wrote: 
>> 15d6 EB, Explosion (+1/2), Damage Shield (+1/2), Only if impacted at 
>> high speed (20") or with crushing force (-1/2), No Range  (-1/2) 
>>  
>> 150 AP, 75 real. 
> 
> Close.  Damage shield automatically makes the attack no range.  So 150 
>AP, 100 real.  Still will need other disads to bring the cost down.  
 
   Disadvantages won't affect it one way or the other. 
 
>Should also need to have personal immunity and reduced endurance 
>otherwise the character will be asleep till Doomsday. 
 
   Don't worry about Personal Immunity; as you theorize, I think that this 
can be considered part of the Damage Shield package (except under rare and 
strange circumstances -- certainly where this Explosion is concerned). 
   OTOH you have a good point re: Reduced Endurance.  You might even 
consider making it 0 END Persistent, Always On. 
   (Someone wanna run the numbers on that for 10d6?  I don't have my 
materials quite handy at the moment....) 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:01:52 -0800 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
Subject: Re: Paying for Equipment 
 
>> Alchemists and herbalists make potions no problem, thats a question of 
combining the 
>>right things, 
> 
>But those are just Effects with the Trigger Advantage, and do not 
>involve the actual expenditure of CPs. 
 
Right, they dont cost experience at all (not all the effects they give 
require trigger, but many do yes). 
 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo    	Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:31:30 -0800 
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to> 
Subject: Re: How to explode 
 
>> Close.  Damage shield automatically makes the attack no range.  So 150 
>>AP, 100 real.  Still will need other disads to bring the cost down. 
>   Disadvantages won't affect it one way or the other. 
 
 
He meant Limitations, I'm sure. A lot of people make that mistake when 
talking or writing about Champions. 
 
>   Don't worry about Personal Immunity; as you theorize, I think that this 
>can be considered part of the Damage Shield package (except under rare and 
>strange circumstances -- certainly where this Explosion is concerned). 
>   OTOH you have a good point re: Reduced Endurance.  You might even 
>consider making it 0 END Persistent, Always On. 
>   (Someone wanna run the numbers on that for 10d6?  I don't have my 
>materials quite handy at the moment....) 
 
81 points: 10d6 EB (50), Damage Shield (+1/2), Explosion (+1/2), 0 END 
Persistent (+1), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Always On (-1/2), Only when 
impacting or impacted at x velocity (-1/2) 
 
It's 75 if you don't think it needs Personal Immunity. 
 
Since the last limitation tends to nullify Always On (which would normally 
mean you're a constant walking explosion), it might not be worth a 
limitation, or a reduced one. It's 111 points if it is not used, 100 if it 
is not used and Personal Immunity is not needed. 
 
JAJ, GP 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 15 Jan 1999 12:06:04 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
 
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
Hash: SHA1 
 
Given the premise that you may use multiple powers in a single attack 
action, there is no reason why those multiple powers cannot be in an 
Elemental Control or a Multipower, so long as you can pay the Endurance and 
meet any other requirements of the framework. 
 
 
The things I want to be sure are made clear are: 
 
  Campaign DC guidelines must be enforced.  If you have a 12DC cap, the 
  total DCs in your attack cannot exceed 12DCs.  Which means if you have a 
  12D6 EB and a 4D6 RKA in a 12DC campaign, you cannot use both together at 
  full power.  You can use any combination of powers and power levels, so 
  long as the campaign guidelines are not exceeded.  Among other things, 
  this also makes the 'Beam' limitation for EB worth something. 
 
  Multiple powers are applied individually against defenses.  Two 6D6 
  Energy Blasts are treated as two 6D6 Energy Blasts, not a single 12D6 
  Energy Blast. 
 
  Stun from multiple powers does NOT combine for purposes of stunning. 
  Alternately, all powers in such an array require an advantage to allow 
  this. 
 
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- 
Version: GnuPG v0.9.1 (GNU/Linux) 
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org 
 
iD8DBQE2n3V8gl+vIlSVSNkRAjXiAKDCJRcOlmUiEVvdbXQc6UdwlYdfYgCgjba4 
/iiOEdDe/vQLX4QKMvO2HKE= 
=iGch 
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 
 
- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ returned to its special container and 
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ kept under refrigeration. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:12:41 -0800 (PST) 
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> 
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
 
Stainless Steel Rat writes: 
> The things I want to be sure are made clear are: 
>  
>   Campaign DC guidelines must be enforced.  If you have a 12DC cap, the 
>   total DCs in your attack cannot exceed 12DCs.  Which means if you have a 
>   12D6 EB and a 4D6 RKA in a 12DC campaign, you cannot use both together at 
>   full power.  You can use any combination of powers and power levels, so 
>   long as the campaign guidelines are not exceeded.  Among other things, 
>   this also makes the 'Beam' limitation for EB worth something. 
 
Huh?  The beam limitation does not reduce its damage classes.  Incidentally, 6 
DC + 6 DC does _not_ match a 12 DC attack; its more like 8+8 is 12.  Rule of 
thumb is probably to add the active points of the larger and half the active 
points of the smaller (this is a balance issue, not a mechanical issue). 
>  
>   Stun from multiple powers does NOT combine for purposes of stunning. 
>   Alternately, all powers in such an array require an advantage to allow 
>   this. 
 
Hm...I'd probably call it a manuever to allow someone to coordinate with 
themselves. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:42:37 -0800 
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> 
Subject: Re: Y2k bug [VCR Fun] 
 
Forget VCR fun, how about real fun? Have a party New Years Eve. At exactly 
midnight, flip the master circuit breaker switch. See how long it takes them 
to figure out the other houses on the street have power. 
 
If they do. 
 
Filksinger 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:49:55 -0600 
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net> 
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
 
> From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
>  
> Given the premise that you may use multiple powers in a single attack 
> action, there is no reason why those multiple powers cannot be in an 
> Elemental Control or a Multipower, so long as you can pay the Endurance 
and 
> meet any other requirements of the framework. 
>  
 
I don't know if I agree here. Each power has to go through defenses on 
their own, so this is a consideration here; if you were using an energy 
attack and a physical attack, you'd really be screwed. 
 
Also, how does this have anything to do with the Beam attack? Beam only 
makes you have to use all dice in an EB or RKA.  I don't understand how 
your ruling affects it at all. 
 
Guy 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:28:55 -0500 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
Subject: Re: Aragorn: Character 
 
At 09:00 AM 1/15/99 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote: 
>I would give Anduril the ability to five Aragorn a PRE bonus, and give it 
>affects desolid (it hurt Sauron).  Every time he drew it everyone 
>practically fell to their knees, which is either a perk for the sword or 
>presence bonus to Aragorn. 
 
I think I agree with the PRE bonus, but not the affects desolid.  Sauron 
was in his mortal form when harmed, and it shattered the sword.  We 
are specifically told that -nothing- can harm Sauron's current form except 
the destruction of the One Ring. 
 
>>NOTES: 
>> 
>>Aragorn is an epic hero, but nothing in Tolkien's stories makes him 
>superheroic. 
> 
>He is, however, superhuman, as he is half elf sort of :) 
 
As I noted, not only does he have eldar blood, he has maia blood, 
but Tolkien's characters are reserved, and live in a non-super world. 
Gandalf doesn't throw fireballs, and Aragorn isn't Spider-Man.  He's 
a human with some very good -human- stats.  
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would  
think of saying except in a desperate case.  It is like saying 
'My mother, drunk or sober.'" 
        G.K. Chesterton 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Scott C. Nolan 
nolan@erols.com   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:55:04 -0500 (EST) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> 
Subject: Cool Game Stuff 
 
While on the subject of Hero books, I thought I'd toss out a few non-Hero 
items that I had found ot be very useful. 
 
1 - Quake: Take the Quake game CD and pop it into your CD player.  Skip 
the first track (it's program noise) and you are rewarded with ~55 minutes 
of strange and unsettling background music.  The worst has to be the 
'chewing' sounds in Track 4.  Perfect for horror games. 
 
2 - GURPS Lands of Mystery: A great sourcebook detailing real world 
archelogical sites and what may have really happened there.  Includes a 
number of maps and floor plans as well as adventure seeds.  An excellent 
source for fantasy, horror and pulp games. 
 
3 - Call of Cthulthu ver 5.5: A nicely laid out book with some great art 
and articles.  New spells (over 200), monsters, gods, magical artifacts 
and other details make it fun to read.  CoC stats can almost be used 
straight up as Hero stats (STR for STR, POW for EGO, HP for BODY etc) and 
the new SIZ chart gives an idea of scale (and thus, how much Growth or DI 
to give the creature in question.  A must for horror GMs (or, if you are 
like me and run a supernatural/cyberpunk game - that too).  Also good for 
fantasy GMs looking for some strangeness. 
 
4 - Back for Seconds: This Feng Shui book is probably hard to find, but is 
great fun to read.  It is full of creatures, characters, monsters and 
devices.  Conversion is a matter of taste since the rules don't lend 
themselves to adaption to other system easily.  OTOH: the descriptions are 
good enough to allow GMs to pretty much decide what they want with ease. 
A great book for cyberpunk, horror, fantasy and wild martial arts games. 
 
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com  
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html 
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:47:11 -0500 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
Subject: Re: Aragorn: Character 
 
At 10:23 PM 1/15/99 -0800, you wrote: 
>Scott Nolan wrote: 
>>  
>> ARAGORN 
>>  
>> 18      STR     8 
>> 14      DEX     12 
>> 18      CON     16 
>> 16      BODY    12 
>> 16      INT     6 
>> 23      EGO     26 
>> 23      PRE     13 
>> 8       COM     -1 
> 
>Only 8? While, IIRC, he had some facial scars, I think he was still 
>considered to be good looking, if a bit rugged. 
 
Upon meeting in Bree, Sam and Aragorn hold a colloquy about 
'seeming fair and looking foul'.  I have always thought that Aragorn 
was very plain.  Perhaps it was just a disguise. 
 
>> 12      PD      8 
>> 10      ED      6 
>> 5       SPD     26 
>> 20      REC     24 
>> 60      END     12 
>> 75      STUN    41 
>> Characteristics Cost: 209 
>>  
>> 4       WF,Common Melee,Common Missile 
>> 30      3 Levels,all skills (Figured in below) 
>> 32      4 Levels,all combat 
>>  
>> 3       Concealment 15- 
>> 3       High Society 17- 
>> 3       Mimicry 14- 
>> 9       Navigation 17- 
>> 3       Oratory 17- 
> 
>       And conversation? 
 
I thought about it.  We don't see him use it, though. 
- -Anybody- can talk in a bar. 
 
>> 3       Riding 15- 
>> 5       Shadowing 15- 
>> 5       Stealth 16- 
>> 7       Survival 16- 
>> 9       Tactics 18- 
>> 7       Tracking 17- 
> 
>       I would probarly consider adding a few inches of extra running here as 
>well.  While an increase in speed increases overall running speed, an 
>extra 2 inches could be justified. 
 
Good point.  I'll put that in the final version. 
 
>> 1       TF,Ships 
>>  
>> 3       Linguist 
>> 1       Lang: Westron,native,literacy 
>> 3       Lang: Numenorean,fluent w/accent,literacy 
>> 3       Lang: Sindarin,fluent w/accent,literacy 
>> 3       Lang: Quenya,fluent w/accent,literacy 
>> 2       Lang: Harad,fluent conversation,literacy 
>>  
>> 3       AK: Eriador 15- 
>> 3       AK: Gondor 15- 
>> 3       KS: Dunadan History 15- 
>> 3       KS: Elven History 15- 
>> 3       KS: Hidden Councils of the Wise 15- 
>> 5       KS: Herb Lore 17- 
>>  
>> 20      6D6 Healing,"Healing Hands", Gradual 
>>  
>> 3       Bump Of Direction 
>> 7       14- Combat Sense 
>> 5       Defense Maneuver 
>>  
>> 10      Head of State 
>>  
>> 24      Package,"Anduril",OAF,unbreakable,extremely hard        4 
>> (15)    3D6 Killing Attack  HTH,STR Min 13      4 
>> (4)     5 Levels 
> 
>       I get the impression that these are 2 point levels.  If so, they can 
>not be placed under any limitations.  They would need to be 5 point 
>levels. 
 
Oops.  True. 
 
>> (5)     +2 Detect,"Orcs and other Dark Creatures",make into sense, 
>>         Desc: Glowing Blade, Ranged 
>>  
>> Powers Cost: 228 
>> Total Cost: 437 
>>  
>> Base Points: 75 
>> 10      Distinctive Features,"Dunadan",concealable,minor 
>> 10      Hunted,"Sauron's Minions",as powerful,harsh,appear 8 
>> 5       Watched,"The Wise",as powerful,harsh,appear 8 
>> 10      Psychological Limitation,"Driven to Reunite Kingdom", 
>>          uncommon,strong 
>> 15      Psychological Limitation,"Love for Arwen",uncommon,total 
>> 20      Psychological Limitation,"Must Protect The Weak",common, 
>>          total 
>> 5       Reputation,"Drifter",occur 8 
>> 15      Secret ID,"Isildur's Heir" 
>> 272     Feel Foul, Seem Fair Bonus 
>>  
>> Disadvantages Total: 362 
>> Experience Spent: 0 
>> Total Points: 437 
 
 
 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would  
think of saying except in a desperate case.  It is like saying 
'My mother, drunk or sober.'" 
        G.K. Chesterton 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Scott C. Nolan 
nolan@erols.com   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:04:01 -0600 
From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> 
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
 
>Given the premise that you may use multiple powers in a single attack 
>action, there is no reason why those multiple powers cannot be in an 
>Elemental Control or a Multipower, so long as you can pay the Endurance 
>and meet any other requirements of the framework. 
 
Like the Elemental Control requirement that "powers in different slots 
cannot be linked to go off together"?  It's not clear whether they 
mean Linked (-1/2) or linked (setting two attack powers off together). 
 
My interpretation has always been the stricter one: when you take an EC, 
only one of your attack powers in that EC may be activated per phase. 
 
 
>  Campaign DC guidelines must be enforced.  If you have a 12DC cap, the 
>  total DCs in your attack cannot exceed 12DCs.  Which means if you have a 
>  12D6 EB and a 4D6 RKA in a 12DC campaign, you cannot use both together at 
>  full power.  You can use any combination of powers and power levels, so 
>  long as the campaign guidelines are not exceeded.  Among other things, 
>  this also makes the 'Beam' limitation for EB worth something. 
 
For people who have been wondering, Rat (I believe) means that, in a 12 DC 
cap world, you cannot set off two 7d6 beam EBs.  (The Beam limitation is 
sorta like Ultra slots, regarding Damage instead of Multipower Reserve) 
 
And, I disagree.  Since two 6 DC attacks are _not_ generally equivalent to 
one 12 DC attack, I would make it some sort of sliding scale (perhaps 
double the number of attacks requires each attack to be 3 DC smaller, 
or that each additional attack that's half the size of the main attack 
only counts as +1 DC for determining DC max...) 
 
  Donald 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:43:55 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Upcoming Champions books 
 
>Not sure exactly; the player in question was Will Tharp.  If pressed to 
>answer I would say Hollywood Knights, but I could easily be wrong.  I'll 
>ask him this weekend. 
 
Oh, yes, Will was with the Knights.  Say hello to him for me. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:25:24 -0800 
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> 
Subject: Re: Adjusting cost of power in Hero Creator 
 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
 
<snip comments upon Aid> 
 
> 
>It still works :) try it some time heheh its not infinite but the numbers 
>are pretty phenomenal. 
 
 
You think that's bad? Try Transfer from BODY and DEF, and let the character 
lose in a rock quarry. 
 
Hmmm. I may have just figured out how Galactus feeds.... 
 
Filksinger 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:57:36 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Cool Game Stuff 
 
>4 - Back for Seconds: This Feng Shui book is probably hard to find, but is 
>great fun to read.  It is full of creatures, characters, monsters and 
>devices.  Conversion is a matter of taste since the rules don't lend 
>themselves to adaption to other system easily.  OTOH: the descriptions are 
>good enough to allow GMs to pretty much decide what they want with ease. 
>A great book for cyberpunk, horror, fantasy and wild martial arts games. 
 
I've often thought Feng Shui villains would be adaptable to Champions ones 
with just a bit of a power up in some cases. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:30:00 -0700 
From: Curtis A Gibson <mhoram@relia.net> 
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
 
Guy Hoyle wrote: 
>  
> > From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
> > 
> > Given the premise that you may use multiple powers in a single attack 
> > action, there is no reason why those multiple powers cannot be in an 
> > Elemental Control or a Multipower, so long as you can pay the Endurance 
> and 
> > meet any other requirements of the framework. 
> > 
>  
> I don't know if I agree here. Each power has to go through defenses on 
> their own, so this is a consideration here; if you were using an energy 
> attack and a physical attack, you'd really be screwed. 
>  
> Also, how does this have anything to do with the Beam attack? Beam only 
> makes you have to use all dice in an EB or RKA.  I don't understand how 
> your ruling affects it at all. 
>  
> Guy 
 
I saw this one immediately. It's a bit intuitive though. If you adhere 
to strick Active point caps (as Rat suggested), and you have 2 attacks 
at the campaign limit both with beam on them, you could not use them 
together.  
 
- -Mhoram  
 
- --  
What is called glory, I think, is mostly the relief you feel after 
you've fought and lived through battle without getting maimed. 
- -Harry Turtledove   Krispos Rising 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:36:47 -0500 
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com> 
Subject: Re: Cool Game Stuff 
 
<<1 - Quake: Take the Quake game CD and pop it into your CD player.  Skip 
the first track (it's program noise) and you are rewarded with ~55 minutes 
of strange and unsettling background music.  The worst has to be the 
'chewing' sounds in Track 4.  Perfect for horror games.>> 
 
I'm going to have to remember that. 
 
<<3 - Call of Cthulthu ver 5.5: A nicely laid out book with some great art 
and articles.  New spells (over 200), monsters, gods, magical artifacts 
and other details make it fun to read.  CoC stats can almost be used 
straight up as Hero stats (STR for STR, POW for EGO, HP for BODY etc) and 
the new SIZ chart gives an idea of scale (and thus, how much Growth or DI 
to give the creature in question.  A must for horror GMs (or, if you are 
like me and run a supernatural/cyberpunk game - that too).  Also good for 
fantasy GMs looking for some strangeness.>> 
 
Heh heh.  I can hardly wait for Cthulhu Creator to come out.  A lot of the 
monsters and the like would would perfectly as Chaos creatures. 
 
 
 
 
Lisa 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:19:34 -0800 
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> 
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to speed 
 
From: Melinda and Steven Mitchell <mdmitche@advicom.net> 
 
 
>> From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
>That is why I suggested that only 
>the GM roll, then apply the same roll to everyone.  Now it is impossible 
>for a high SPD to get nailed. 
 
 
Unfortunately, it is subject to the same sort of manipulation you are trying 
to prevent. A character with even +1 SPD over his opponents _knows_ that any 
round they go, he goes, too. If he has a higher DEX as well (likely), then 
he can say, "OK, only I go this phase, so I will put all 5 levels into OCV", 
and keep his levels there until the die roll says other people get to go, at 
which point he takes advantage of his superior DEX and switches the levels. 
 
Filksinger 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:29:08 -0500 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
Subject: Re: Aragorn: Character 
 
>>>I would give Anduril the ability to five Aragorn a PRE bonus, and give it 
>>>affects desolid (it hurt Sauron).  Every time he drew it everyone 
>>>practically fell to their knees, which is either a perk for the sword or 
>>>presence bonus to Aragorn. 
>> 
>>I think I agree with the PRE bonus, but not the affects desolid.  Sauron 
>>was in his mortal form when harmed, and it shattered the sword.  We 
>>are specifically told that -nothing- can harm Sauron's current form except 
>>the destruction of the One Ring. 
> 
>Hmm hard to say, its true about Sauron.  I dont remember if he hurt a 
>RingWraith with it or not, they arent corporeal, there were some other 
>creatures that were ghostly in the books too and they were fought at Minas 
>Tirith. 
 
Despite the name, I don't think the ringwraiths -are- incorporeal.  I'd like 
to see some evidence to that effect.  And I know of nothing else that was  
fought at the Pelennor Fields that was incorporeal.  If you have a reference, 
please tell me. 
 
>>>>Aragorn is an epic hero, but nothing in Tolkien's stories makes him 
>>>superheroic. 
>>> 
>>>He is, however, superhuman, as he is half elf sort of :) 
>> 
>>As I noted, not only does he have eldar blood, he has maia blood, 
>>but Tolkien's characters are reserved, and live in a non-super world. 
>>Gandalf doesn't throw fireballs, and Aragorn isn't Spider-Man.  He's 
>>a human with some very good -human- stats.  
> 
>Right, well 23s arent precisely human, but thats why I said superhuman, he 
>is practically immortal and has skills he never demonstrated.  The world 
>was shown to be awfully dangerous for even a small group in both the Hobbit 
>and LOTR, and Aragorn wandered around ALONE in it. 
 
Aragorn is -not- immortal.  He lived for more than 200 years because of his 
dunadan blood, but is definitely mortal.  
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
"'My Country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would  
think of saying except in a desperate case.  It is like saying 
'My mother, drunk or sober.'" 
        G.K. Chesterton 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Scott C. Nolan 
nolan@erols.com   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:50:53 -0800 (PST) 
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com> 
Subject: Re: Point balance vs. Power balance 
 
- ---Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com> wrote: 
> 
> Joe Mucchiello wrote: 
> > Who is on this list who doesn't care about point balancing the 
heroes?  I 
> > know there are a few GMs on this list only set of Active Point and 
Defense 
> > limitations and let the players spend as many points as they want 
to create 
> > a character.  I have to try that some time. 
>  
> I'm one of them.  Though the usual proposal is have the player write 
the 
> character up and then have the GM edit it to balance in power. (Up 
or down) 
> It's a lot of work for the GM if he wants to be completely 
impartial.  Usually 
> it takes a few games before it settles.  My last campaign had 
characters from 
> 500 - 1000 points. 
 
My typical Champions campaign is 100 points base plus whatever number 
of disads you come up with (no more than 50 points of any give type) 
with a defined expected active point average of 50 points.  I'll then 
read through all the characters and make sure that nothing jumps out 
as being blatantly out of whack and that the active point average 
across all the characters is what I'm looking for. 
 
 
== 
======================================= 
John Desmarais  <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org> 
Keeper of the Champions / Hero System mailing 
list.  http://www.sysabend.org/champions 
======================================= 
_________________________________________________________ 
DO YOU YAHOO!? 
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
End of champ-l-digest V1 #138 
***************************** 


Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 03:11 PM