Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 139

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 12:05 AM 
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #139 
 
 
champ-l-digest       Saturday, January 16 1999       Volume 01 : Number 139 
 
 
 
In this issue: 
 
    Re: Cool Game Stuff 
    Re: How to explode 
    Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
    Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
    Re: Aragorn: Character 
    RE: A seriously weird modification to Speed 
    Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
    Re: Aragorn: Character 
    Re: How to explode 
    Re: Cool Game Stuff 
    Re: A seriously weird modification to Speed 
    Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
    Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
    Re: Cool Game Stuff 
    Re: Aragorn: Character 
    Re: Y2k bug [VCR Fun] 
    Re: A seriously weird modification to Speed 
    Re: A seriously weird modification to speed 
    Another Odd Idea for Speed 
    Re: Cool Game Stuff 
    Re: Aragorn: Character 
    Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
    RE: Aragorn: Character 
    Re: Cool Game Stuff 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: 15 Jan 1999 16:20:01 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Cool Game Stuff 
 
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"MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> writes: 
 
MS> 1 - Quake: Take the Quake game CD and pop it into your CD player. 
 
Enh.  Trent Reznor can bite me.  The Quake II soundtrack (along with the 
two mission packs) is much better, IMO.  Then again, its hard to beat a 
collaboration including the likes of Ozzy Ozborne and Rob Zombie. 
 
For outright creepy, try Half-Life. 
 
For a more techno-riffic bent, try the audio tracks on WipeOut (the 
original, not Wipeout XL). 
 
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- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete. 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \  
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:10:34 -0800 
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com> 
Subject: Re: How to explode 
 
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Kirk Lund wrote: 
>  
> I'm designing a character that has an "explosive" personality.  Well, ok, 
> what I mean is if he impacts with something going at a minimum of 
> 20" velocity I want to fire off an Energy Blast Explosion, No Range.  Now 
> Damage Shield doesn't look quite right, nor does Trigger.  Do I simply 
> need to combine one of these with some Adv or Lim, or is there some 
> completely other way to do it? 
>  
> Let's go further: He also needs to explode if he's smashed under great 
> weight, even if he isn't travelling fast.  Is there a way to make the whole 
> thing work with one power and some Advs/Lims? 
 
  
James Jandebeur wrote: 
> 81 points: 10d6 EB (50), Damage Shield (+1/2), Explosion (+1/2), 0 END 
> Persistent (+1), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Always On (-1/2), Only when 
> impacting or impacted at x velocity (-1/2) 
 
> It's 75 if you don't think it needs Personal Immunity. 
 
> Since the last limitation tends to nullify Always On (which would normally 
> mean you're a constant walking explosion), it might not be worth a 
> limitation, or a reduced one. It's 111 points if it is not used, 100 if it 
> is not used and Personal Immunity is not needed. 
 
My opinion might carry more weight due to being the GM of this char. 
I'm going to suggest something very close to James: 
15d6 EB, DS, Exp, Per, PI, 0 End (+2.25), AO (-.5) and 
only if 20 body recieved (-2). (Some other conditions apply as well) 
Winds up at 70 points.  I gave the hefty lim of -2 since 20 body will be a 
rare dish and it's likely to cause collaratel damage. It's practically a NCC 
power. 
Plus I'm a sucker for explosions. 
 
Option 2 would be an explosion that varied with how large of an impact 
happens. 
It would look almost exactly the same. 
 
- -Mark Lemming 
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From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to> 
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Subject: Re: How to explode 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:31:30 -0800 
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>> Close.  Damage shield automatically makes the attack no range.  So 150 
>>AP, 100 real.  Still will need other disads to bring the cost down. 
>   Disadvantages won't affect it one way or the other. 
 
 
He meant Limitations, I'm sure. A lot of people make that mistake when 
talking or writing about Champions. 
 
>   Don't worry about Personal Immunity; as you theorize, I think that this 
>can be considered part of the Damage Shield package (except under rare and 
>strange circumstances -- certainly where this Explosion is concerned). 
>   OTOH you have a good point re: Reduced Endurance.  You might even 
>consider making it 0 END Persistent, Always On. 
>   (Someone wanna run the numbers on that for 10d6?  I don't have my 
>materials quite handy at the moment....) 
 
81 points: 10d6 EB (50), Damage Shield (+1/2), Explosion (+1/2), 0 END 
Persistent (+1), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Always On (-1/2), Only when 
impacting or impacted at x velocity (-1/2) 
 
It's 75 if you don't think it needs Personal Immunity. 
 
Since the last limitation tends to nullify Always On (which would normally 
mean you're a constant walking explosion), it might not be worth a 
limitation, or a reduced one. It's 111 points if it is not used, 100 if it 
is not used and Personal Immunity is not needed. 
 
JAJ, GP 
 
 
 
 
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------------------------------ 
 
Date: 15 Jan 1999 16:01:39 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
 
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"AJ" == Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes: 
 
AJ> Huh?  The beam limitation does not reduce its damage classes. 
 
Exactly.  Under this premise, if you are in a 12DC campaign and you have a 
12D6 EB with Beam, if you use the EB you would be unable to use any other 
powers in an offensive capacity, as you would exceed the DC guideline for 
the campaign.  Beam as a Limitation actually means something given this 
premise. 
 
AJ> Incidentally, 6 DC + 6 DC does _not_ match a 12 DC attack; 
 
Never once did I say that two 6DC powers equaled a single 12DC power.  I 
said that the total number of DCs are the same. 
 
[...] 
 
AJ> Hm...I'd probably call it a manuever to allow someone to coordinate with 
AJ> themselves. 
 
I call it a power advantage. 
 
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- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ of skin. 
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:53:47 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
 
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>Given the premise that you may use multiple powers in a single attack 
>action, there is no reason why those multiple powers cannot be in an 
>Elemental Control or a Multipower, so long as you can pay the Endurance and 
>meet any other requirements of the framework. 
> 
> 
>The things I want to be sure are made clear are: 
> 
>  Campaign DC guidelines must be enforced.  If you have a 12DC cap, the 
>  total DCs in your attack cannot exceed 12DCs.  Which means if you have a 
>  12D6 EB and a 4D6 RKA in a 12DC campaign, you cannot use both together at 
>  full power.  You can use any combination of powers and power levels, so 
>  long as the campaign guidelines are not exceeded.  Among other things, 
>  this also makes the 'Beam' limitation for EB worth something. 
 
While I don't disagree with the principal, I don't really think two powers 
should be equal to the sum of their DCs for this purpose.  With the 
exception of NNDs, they rather rarely are, for the reason you state next, 
among others. 
 
> 
>  Multiple powers are applied individually against defenses.  Two 6D6 
>  Energy Blasts are treated as two 6D6 Energy Blasts, not a single 12D6 
>  Energy Blast. 
> 
>  Stun from multiple powers does NOT combine for purposes of stunning. 
>  Alternately, all powers in such an array require an advantage to allow 
>  this. 
 
This ought to be doable just with some sort of skill roll, given the 
Coordinating Attacks rule. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:48:44 -0800 (PST) 
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> 
Subject: Re: Aragorn: Character 
 
Scott Nolan writes: 
>  
> Despite the name, I don't think the ringwraiths -are- incorporeal.  I'd 
> like to see some evidence to that effect.  And I know of nothing else that 
> was  fought at the Pelennor Fields that was incorporeal.  If you have a 
> reference, please tell me. 
 
The ringwraiths are incorporal if you destroy their forms (the ones destroyed 
at the ford became bodiless wraiths which had to return to mordor to reform).  
Aside from that I don't recall any evidence of them being incorporeal. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:32:40 -0500 
From: "Len Carpenter" <redlion@early.com> 
Subject: RE: A seriously weird modification to Speed 
 
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This thread has prompted me to toss out an idea for a SPD system I've = 
been toying with.  For every PC, major NPC, or group of minor NPCs, a = 
number of SPD cards--about a dozen--is written up.  Each card has a = 
different SPD sequence.  For example, a stack of cards for a SPD 4 = 
character has one card with actions on the official Segments 3, 6, 9, = 
12.  Another card has actions on Segments 4, 7, 8, 10.  Another, actions = 
on Segments 2, 5, 9, 11.  And so on. 
 
At the beginning of every Turn, each major character or group of minor = 
characters is randomly assigned a card from the character's SPD stack.  = 
Pick a card, roll a die, pick a number from 1 to 12, whatever.  The = 
randomly chosen SPD card determines the character's action Segments for = 
that Turn.  At the end of the Turn, the SPD card is returned to its = 
original stack for the next Turn's selection. 
 
With a SPD card in front of every player, it's easy to keep track of who = 
gets to act when.  Keeping the NPCs' SPD cards hidden from the players = 
forces the players to guess when their opponents get to act, and the = 
opponents' action Segments change from Turn to Turn. 
 
This method suggests numerous variations.  The card stacks can be = 
changed from one game session to another for more variety.  One card in = 
the stack may have action Segments for a SPD one higher than the = 
character's actual SPD, and one card with Segments for a SPD that is one = 
lower.  Levels of Luck or Unluck might alter the number of = 
advantageous/disadvantageous or higher/lower SPD cards in the stack.  = 
Some cards might include a DEX bonus or penalty that modifies the DEX on = 
which the character gets to act in a Segment. 
 
As a further option, at the beginning of every Turn, each player must = 
decide his character's first action for the Turn before the SPD cards = 
are randomly assigned.  This way, a player won't know when he will first = 
be able to act before deciding on his initial action.  A player who = 
decides on a daring offensive action at the beginning of the Turn and = 
then receives a disadvantageous SPD card may be forced to abort to a = 
defensive action when he finds that his opponents get to act before him. 
 
Len Carpenter 
redlion@early.com 
 
 
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<HTML> 
<HEAD> 
 
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = 
http-equiv=3DContent-Type> 
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> 
</HEAD> 
<BODY bgColor=3D#6e64ff> 
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>This thread has prompted me to toss = 
out an idea=20 
for a SPD system I've been toying with.&nbsp; For every PC, major NPC, = 
or group=20 
of minor NPCs, a number of SPD cards--about a dozen--is written = 
up.&nbsp; Each=20 
card has a different SPD sequence.&nbsp; For example, a stack of cards = 
for a SPD=20 
4 character has one card with actions on the official Segments 3, 6, 9,=20 
12.&nbsp; Another card has actions on Segments 4, 7, 8, 10.&nbsp; = 
Another,=20 
actions on Segments 2, 5, 9, 11.&nbsp; And so on.</FONT></DIV> 
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> 
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>At the beginning of every Turn, each = 
major=20 
character or group of minor characters is randomly assigned a card from = 
the=20 
character's SPD stack.&nbsp; Pick a card, roll a die, pick a number from = 
1 to=20 
12, whatever.&nbsp; The randomly chosen SPD card determines the = 
character's=20 
action Segments for that Turn.&nbsp; At the end of the Turn, the SPD = 
card is=20 
returned to its original stack for the next Turn's = 
selection.</FONT></DIV> 
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> 
<DIV>With a SPD card in front of every player, it's easy to keep track = 
of who=20 
gets to act when.&nbsp; Keeping the NPCs' SPD cards hidden from the = 
players=20 
forces the players to guess when their opponents get to act, and the = 
opponents'=20 
action Segments change from Turn to Turn.</DIV> 
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> 
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>This method suggests numerous = 
variations.&nbsp;=20 
The card stacks can be changed from one game session to another for more = 
 
variety.&nbsp; One card in the stack may have action Segments for a SPD = 
one=20 
higher than the character's actual SPD, and one card with Segments for a = 
SPD=20 
that is one lower.&nbsp; Levels of Luck or Unluck might alter the number = 
of=20 
advantageous/disadvantageous or higher/lower SPD cards in the = 
stack.&nbsp; Some=20 
cards might include a DEX bonus or penalty that modifies the DEX on = 
which the=20 
character gets to act in a Segment.</FONT></DIV> 
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> 
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>As a further option, at the = 
beginning of every=20 
Turn, each player must decide his character's first action for the Turn = 
before=20 
the SPD cards are randomly assigned.&nbsp; This way, a player won't know = 
when he=20 
will first be able to act before deciding on his initial action.&nbsp; A = 
player=20 
who decides on a daring offensive action at the beginning of the Turn = 
and then=20 
receives a disadvantageous SPD card may be forced to abort to a = 
defensive action=20 
when he finds that his opponents get to act before him.</FONT></DIV> 
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> 
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Len Carpenter<BR><A=20 
href=3D"mailto:redlion@early.com">redlion@early.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV><= 
/BODY></HTML> 
 
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------------------------------ 
 
Date: 15 Jan 1999 16:15:32 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
 
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"DT" == Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> writes: 
 
DT> Like the Elemental Control requirement that "powers in different slots 
DT> cannot be linked to go off together"?  It's not clear whether they 
DT> mean Linked (-1/2) or linked (setting two attack powers off together). 
 
Since the only context for "linked" or "Linked" ever used in the BBB is in 
the context of the Limitation, I interpret it to be the same as with 
Multipower: you cannot link a power in one framework slot to another power 
in a different slot.  That is all it means, no more, no less. 
 
DT> My interpretation has always been the stricter one: when you take an EC, 
DT> only one of your attack powers in that EC may be activated per phase. 
 
Then I would insist on some kind of "lockout" limitation bonus for the 
restriction placed on the use of my powers. 
 
[...] 
 
DT> For people who have been wondering, Rat (I believe) means that, in a 12 DC 
DT> cap world, you cannot set off two 7d6 beam EBs.  (The Beam limitation is 
DT> sorta like Ultra slots, regarding Damage instead of Multipower Reserve) 
 
Bingo! 
 
DT> And, I disagree.  Since two 6 DC attacks are _not_ generally equivalent 
DT> to one 12 DC attack, I would make it some sort of sliding scale 
 
Too complex, and it only works if you split the DCs evenly between powers. 
It gets screwey if you use two powers at, say, ~75%/25% of the DC cap, ie a 
12D6 EB and a 2D6 RKA used at 9D6/1D6 (or however you intend to figure it 
out). 
 
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- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to 
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ Earth, presumably from outer space. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:26:09 -0500 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
Subject: Re: Aragorn: Character 
 
At 02:17 PM 1/15/99 -0800, you wrote: 
>>>>I think I agree with the PRE bonus, but not the affects desolid.  Sauron 
>>>>was in his mortal form when harmed, and it shattered the sword.  We 
>>>>are specifically told that -nothing- can harm Sauron's current form except 
>>>>the destruction of the One Ring. 
>>> 
>>>Hmm hard to say, its true about Sauron.  I dont remember if he hurt a 
>>>RingWraith with it or not, they arent corporeal, there were some other 
>>>creatures that were ghostly in the books too and they were fought at Minas 
>>>Tirith. 
>> 
>>Despite the name, I don't think the ringwraiths -are- incorporeal.  I'd like 
>>to see some evidence to that effect.  And I know of nothing else that was  
>>fought at the Pelennor Fields that was incorporeal.  If you have a 
reference, 
>>please tell me. 
> 
>They are typically written up that way... and they are described as turning 
>to shadows in the book, losing their form, which SOUNDS like lack of 
>corporeal substance.  As I understand it normal weapons cannot hurt them 
>either, I think only the heroes with magic items were able to fight them 
>(or Sting, which as it turns out was a damn powerful little sword) 
 
The closest thing I can find to a reference to their form is the way they 
moved on Weathertop.  I often thought of them as incorporeal as well, 
but Tolkien never actually says that.  Two points of evidence in favor 
of their solidity: 1) ICE treats them that way and ; 2) Eowyn killed the 
Lord of the Nazgul.  Nothing anywhere (besides that fact) suggests 
that her sword is magical.  In fact, it is just her sheer skill (and help 
from Merry) that does it. 
 
Another possible point: the nazgul are not spirits in the sense that the 
maiar are.  They are corrupted humans, enslaved in immortality to 
Sauron.  That suggests that they still inhabit their bodies.  Remember 
that even the valar and maiar, although they could move without their 
fana (bodies) did not often do so, and Sauron does so only because 
his fana was permanently destroyed. 
 
I agree that there is no clear evidence either way, and that Tolkien was 
writing for effect, not for game purposes.  But I think that the weight of 
the evidence tends to show that the nazgul are corporeal.  
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
"I distrust all systematizers, and avoid them.  The will to 
a system shows a lack of honesty." 
        Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Scott C. Nolan 
nolan@erols.com   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:53:50 -0800 
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com> 
Subject: Re: How to explode 
 
Mark Lemming screwed up: 
<Stuff deleted> 
 
Sorry about that, didn't realize that the cut and paste I did wound up 
attaching the previous message.  Grrrrr. 
 
- -Mark 
p.s. Of course having a second message doesn't really help things.... 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:09:10 EST 
From: SteveL1979@aol.com 
Subject: Re: Cool Game Stuff 
 
In a message dated 1/15/99 5:19:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
ratinox@peorth.gweep.net writes: 
 
<< Enh.  Trent Reznor can bite me. >> 
 
	Aren't you worried about rabies? 
 
Steve Long :) 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:07:00 -0800 
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com> 
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to Speed 
 
<Speed chart card idea by Len snipped> 
 
Looks like a workable system, but I don't see the benifet outweighing the cost 
of speed during the game. 
 
The dice system where the segment 12 is whenever a one is rolled is the one 
I like the best though I see it best used in games with low speeds.  The 
greater the speed differential in the game and the less likely a post-12 
happenning.  Though you could have some modifier to the die roll, just as 
with people who keep getting missed phases. 
 
- -Mark 
p.s. Len, set your outlook express to text only please. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:34:11 -0600 (Central Standard Time) 
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu> 
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
 
> While I don't disagree with the principal, I don't really think two powers 
> should be equal to the sum of their DCs for this purpose.  With the 
> exception of NNDs, they rather rarely are, for the reason you state next, 
> among others. 
 
	Sheesh.  This was always a given for the "yes you can" camp--AP or 
DC limits were still strictly enforced.   
 
	Now that they've been granted "book" status, they want more. 
Give 'em an inch.  Don't you wish you'd been wrong now, Rat? 
 
	Anyway, it's a balance issue.  No, the two combined powers will 
not be as powerful as one by itself.  However, they could end up being 
more useful.  Breadth vs Depth. 
 
 
 
					-Tim Gilberg 
			-"English Majors of the World!  Untie!" 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 15 Jan 1999 18:54:47 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
 
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"WS" == Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com> writes: 
 
WS> While I don't disagree with the principal, I don't really think two 
WS> powers should be equal to the sum of their DCs for this purpose.  With 
WS> the exception of NNDs, they rather rarely are, for the reason you state 
WS> next, among others. 
 
Why not?  A 1D6 Flash linked to a 10D6 EB is a 12DC attack (the blinding 
light-based attack from the rulebook); a 6D6 EB and a 3D6 Entangle are 
likewise a 12DC attack (hitting someone with a blast of ice the freezes 
into a shell around the victim).  Sure, the EBs are not as directly 
effective as a 12D6 EB.  You are exchanging depth for breadth. 
 
[...] 
 
WS> This ought to be doable just with some sort of skill roll, given the 
WS> Coordinating Attacks rule. 
 
That opens up the way for a pile of abuse with Autofire attacks.  At least 
with an Advantage you are paying a cost proportionate to the power for the 
ability rather than a flat 3 points. 
 
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core, 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should 
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:01:16 -0800 
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to> 
Subject: Re: Cool Game Stuff 
 
><< Enh.  Trent Reznor can bite me. >> 
> 
> Aren't you worried about rabies? 
> 
>Steve Long :) 
 
 
Hmm, I'm suddenly considering losing all respect for ya, Steve. 
 
JAJ, GP (-; 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:14:27 -0500 (EST) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> 
Subject: Re: Aragorn: Character 
 
On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Scott Nolan wrote: 
 
> I agree that there is no clear evidence either way, and that Tolkien was 
> writing for effect, not for game purposes.  But I think that the weight of 
> the evidence tends to show that the nazgul are corporeal.  
 
My impression was that they were solid, but invisible. On Weathertop, when 
Frodo put on the ring, he saw their real bodies which (looked human I 
think). 
 
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com  
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html 
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:01:10 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Y2k bug [VCR Fun] 
 
At 10:42 AM 1/15/99 -0800, Filksinger wrote: 
>Forget VCR fun, how about real fun? Have a party New Years Eve. At exactly 
>midnight, flip the master circuit breaker switch. See how long it takes them 
>to figure out the other houses on the street have power. 
> 
>If they do. 
 
   Personally, my plan is to get a camcorder and stand in the middle of 
downtown Corvallis.  At one second before midnight, as my wife is recording 
the proceedings, I'm going to clap my hands twice. 
   Ah, Bob Saget, where are you when I need you?  ;-] 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:20:22 -0800 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to Speed 
 
The only wierd modification I have started to use for Speed isnt much of 
one at all.  I have a nice collection of precious gem dice and polyhedrals 
from the good ol days of the late 1970s and early 80s that sits unused in 
my dice box.  So I pulled out a lonely D12 and started using it as a 
randomizer for what phase combat starts in.  Instead of starting on phase 1 
(or phase '0' that the rules call for)... You get a random phase to begin 
with, who knows what.  This seems to work well for mixing things up and 
sometimes hey! that Brick gets to move right away! :) 
 
An alternate of this would be to start on the first phase that the 
character with the highest DEX acts on, to represent their swift reaction 
to hostilities.  Never done this though, actually I just thought of it as I 
was typing. 
 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo    	Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:46:15 -0600 
From: "Melinda and Steven Mitchell" <mdmitche@advicom.net> 
Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to speed 
 
> From: Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> 
> To: Hero Mail List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
> Subject: Re: A seriously weird modification to speed 
> Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 3:19 PM 
>  
> From: Melinda and Steven Mitchell <mdmitche@advicom.net> 
>  
>  
> >> From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
> >That is why I suggested that only 
> >the GM roll, then apply the same roll to everyone.  Now it is impossible 
> >for a high SPD to get nailed. 
>  
>  
> Unfortunately, it is subject to the same sort of manipulation you are 
trying 
> to prevent. A character with even +1 SPD over his opponents _knows_ that 
any 
> round they go, he goes, too. If he has a higher DEX as well (likely), 
then 
> he can say, "OK, only I go this phase, so I will put all 5 levels into 
OCV", 
> and keep his levels there until the die roll says other people get to go, 
at 
> which point he takes advantage of his superior DEX and switches the 
levels. 
>  
> Filksinger 
 
This is true, as the idea was presented.  However, I neglected to mention 
that I use a house initiative system (based loosely on Tactics and base 
OCV) that means no one knows for sure who will go next.  IF a character has 
a high OCV and he currently has initiative, then he can reasonably expect 
that he will go first.  But he cannot count on it.  A little uncertainty 
goes a long way :-) 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:19:50 -0800 
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> 
Subject: Another Odd Idea for Speed 
 
When using the HERO System for heroic-level games, I had some players 
complain about the extreme granularity of Speed. Essentially, you could be 
below average, average, fast, or very fast, but that was it. Not only did 
they find this annoying, but I did as well, as most of my groups tended to 
all crowd the upper registers, resulting in games where all players were 
either Speed 3 or 4. 
 
So I created fractional Speed. 
 
Now note that I do not necessarily recommend this. It can slow things down, 
and definitely increases bookkeeping for the players (the GM can just refuse 
to use it, making all NPCs whole Speeds). 
 
How do you get it? 
 
First of all, if you have a DEX which gives you a fractional result for SPD 
(such as a 13, giving you a 2.3), you don't round off. Someone with a 13 DEX 
gets a 2.3 SPD. Anyone who wants more fractional SPD can buy it at a rate of 
1/1 pts. 
 
What does it do? 
 
When a character has a fractional SPD, at the end of the Turn any fractions 
are left over. Thus, at the end of the first Turn of combat, if the 
character has a SPD of 1.3, he has .3 points "left over". This accumulates 
until it becomes a whole SPD point. Thus, if this character somehow survived 
three Turns of combat, in his fourth turn, he would be SPD 3.2 for that 
turn, carrying the additional .2 with him into the next Turn as usual. 
 
If he chooses, he may remain SPD 2 and save this SPD of 3 for a later Turn. 
However, when doing so, he can carry no fractional SPD with him into the 
next Turn. Thus, if this character where to save his extra Speed until the 
fifth Turn, he would have a SPD of 3.3 in the fifth Turn, not SPD 3.5. The 
additional .2 that would have been carried over are lost. 
 
An additional advantage accrues when arranging ambushes. Characters who know 
they are heading for combat may choose to start saving up fractional SPD. If 
they get enough time, they start at phase 12 as usual, and carry over the 
extra point of SPD into the first full Turn. Thus, the character above could 
wait for three Turns, attack at the end of Turn 3, phase 12, and then start 
the next round with a SPD of 3.2. 
 
It allows much wider variance in PCs (and NPCs, if the GM wants the hassle), 
and allows for concepts such as, "I am so lightning fast that master fencers 
recognize that I am very slightly than even they, though only barely", which 
was difficult when your only choice was SPD 4 (the same Speed) or SPD 5 
(significantly faster). 
 
This increases bookkeeping, as I said, and anyone who says it is not in the 
rules will be hit with a BBB (hardcover). Other comments/suggestions 
welcome. 
 
- --Lysdexia is a terrisease dibble. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:49:33 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Cool Game Stuff 
 
At 06:09 PM 1/15/99 EST, SteveL1979@aol.com wrote: 
>In a message dated 1/15/99 5:19:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
>ratinox@peorth.gweep.net writes: 
> 
><< Enh.  Trent Reznor can bite me. >> 
> 
> Aren't you worried about rabies? 
 
   Isn't it a bit late for that?  ;-] 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:37:27 EST 
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts) 
Subject: Re: Aragorn: Character 
 
>> ARAGORN 
 <snip> 
 
>> 8       COM     -1 
> 
>Only 8? While, IIRC, he had some facial scars, I think he was still 
>considered to be good looking, if a bit rugged. 
 
Aragorn was no hunk, but COM in the 10-14 range would make sense.  He was 
in disguise at Bree, so you really can't go by Sam's reaction.  (And, I 
don't have the book handy, but didn't Aragorn have to sneak past the inn 
staff to talk to the hobbits?  Can't blame Sam for being suspicious in 
that situation.) 
 
Leah 
 
___________________________________________________________________ 
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------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:48:22 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Attn: Steve Long/Multiple Attacks in one Phase 
 
At 04:01 PM 1/15/99 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote: 
>AJ> Hm...I'd probably call it a manuever to allow someone to coordinate with 
>AJ> themselves. 
> 
>I call it a power advantage. 
 
   And I'd call it a Skill... so go fig.  :-] 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:13:04 -0500 
From: "Scott A. Colcord" <sacolcor@ic.net> 
Subject: RE: Aragorn: Character 
 
Kudos to Scott for taking on this project...here's my  
$0.02 to throw into the pot...all suggestions are IMHO, 
YMMV, etc. 
 
> ARAGORN 
>  
> 18	STR	8 
> 14	DEX	12 
> 18	CON	16 
 
I'd raise the CON to 20; Aragorn's ability to keep going 
struck me as pushing the limit of what humans can do. 
 
> 16	BODY	12 
> 16	INT	6 
> 23	EGO	26 -> 32 
 
I'd probably stick with a 20 here; he had a strong will, as 
exhibited by his controlling the palantir, but I don't think 
it quite needs to be superhuman.  Then again, I'm usually 
pretty stingy about fantasy characters going over the max. 
If you keep it, you'll have to pay the x2 for the NCM violation. 
Aragorn is still essentially (> 90%) human, and thus gets NCM 
automatically in a fantasy setting. 
 
> 23	PRE	13 -> 16 
 
No problem with this value, but it also needs the x2 penalty. 
 
> 8	COM	-1 
 
I probably wouldn't have bought this down; I think he was 
just slumming in Bree (Even a handsome man can look foul 
after spending a few months in the woods with little or no 
bathing). 
 
> 12	PD	8  -> 12 
> 10	ED	6  ->  8 
> 5	SPD	26 -> 36 
> 20	REC	24 -> 44 
> 60	END	12 -> 17 
> 75	STUN	41 -> 66 
 
Again, I think these stats are a bit on the high side. 
Aragorn is certainly a great fighter, but that should be 
mostly represented through skills.  I would probably 
make them:  PD 8, ED 7, SPD 4, REC 12, END 60, STUN 50 
 
I'd probably throw in 3-4 extra inches of running and 
a couple of swimming too. 
 
> Characteristics Cost: 209 -> 284 
 
> 4	WF,Common Melee,Common Missile	 
> 30	3 Levels,all skills (Figured in below)	 
> 32	4 Levels,all combat	 
 
I'd convert a couple of these combat levels to 3pt 
sword levels, since that's his primary weapon.  I don't 
recall him demonstrating great proficiency with a  
such a large variety of weapons (Though 2 all-combat 
and 3 overall levels are nothing to sneeze at!).  His 
max OCV becomes 10, 12 w/swords; adding in his sword's 
bonus should let him hit nearly anything with ease.  
 		 
> 3	Concealment 15-	 
> 3	High Society 17- 
> 3	Mimicry 14-	 
> 9	Navigation 17-	 
> 3	Oratory 17-	 
> 3	Riding 15-	 
> 5	Shadowing 15- 
> 5	Stealth 16-	 
> 7	Survival 16-	 
> 9	Tactics 18-	 
> 7	Tracking 17-	 
> 1	TF,Ships	 
> 		 
> 3	Linguist	 
> 1	Lang: Westron,native,literacy	 
> 3	Lang: Numenorean,fluent w/accent,literacy	 
> 3	Lang: Sindarin,fluent w/accent,literacy	 
> 3	Lang: Quenya,fluent w/accent,literacy	 
> 2	Lang: Harad,fluent conversation,literacy	 
> 		 
> 3	AK: Eriador 15-	 
> 3	AK: Gondor 15-	 
 
I'd definately give him a *bunch* more AKs... 
probably 15-20 CP worth, and the Traveller  
enhancer. 
 
> 3	KS: Dunadan History 15-	 
> 3	KS: Elven History 15- 
> 3	KS: Hidden Councils of the Wise 15- 
> 5	KS: Herb Lore 17- 
 
I could see him having Scholar...he was quite learned. 
 		 
> 20	6D6 Healing,"Healing Hands", Gradual 
 
I think the 'Hands of a Healer' reference was mostly 
about his herb lore.  His own touch seemed to be more 
specifially aimed at the 'Black Breath'.  Perhaps a 
Dispel vs. that illness would be more appropriate? 
 
> 3	Bump Of Direction	 
> 7	14- Combat Sense	 
> 5	Defense Maneuver	 
> 		 
> 10	Head of State	 
 
He should probably also have Gandalf, Elrond,  
and Thranduil as contacts, and have 30-60 Dunadain 
as followers (100-150 CP each).  A number of lesser 
contacts are probably likely, along with the  
well-connected enhancer. 
 
 		 
> 24	Package,"Anduril",OAF,unbreakable,extremely hard	4 
> (15)	3D6 Killing Attack  HTH,STR Min 13	4 
> (4)	5 Levels	 
 
As someone else stated, these need to be 5pt levels.  I like 
the idea of giving it Affects Desolid, as it makes sense that 
a sword of this power would be able to affect noncorporeal 
creatures.  Five levels also seems a bit excessive...three 
levels would probably be plenty. 
 
> (5)	+2 Detect,"Orcs and other Dark Creatures",make into sense,	 
> 	Desc: Glowing Blade, Ranged	 
 
I'd also put in the green stone that Arwen gave him.  It seemed 
to at times make him more noble, and give him the strength to 
persevere through dark times.  Perhaps a self-only aid to PRE,  
EGO, and END? 
 
He also needs to buy partial immunity to aging. 
  
> Powers Cost: 228 
> Total Cost: 437 
>  
> Base Points: 75 
> 10	Distinctive Features,"Dunadan",concealable,minor 
> 10	Hunted,"Sauron's Minions",as powerful,harsh,appear 8 
> 5	Watched,"The Wise",as powerful,harsh,appear 8 
> 10	Psychological Limitation,"Driven to Reunite Kingdom", 
> 	 uncommon,strong 
> 15	Psychological Limitation,"Love for Arwen",uncommon,total 
> 20	Psychological Limitation,"Must Protect The Weak",common, 
> 	 total 
 
I'd make this Strong, rather than Total; he understands the 
big picture well enough that he could make sacrifices if he 
had to. 
 
> 5	Reputation,"Drifter",occur 8 
> 15	Secret ID,"Isildur's Heir" 
> 272	Feel Foul, Seem Fair Bonus 
 
Umm....isn't that the other way around?  :-) 
 
>  
> Disadvantages Total: 362 
> Experience Spent: 0 
> Total Points: 437 
>  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:47:51 -0600 
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net> 
Subject: Re: Cool Game Stuff 
 
At 01:55 PM 1/15/1999 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
>While on the subject of Hero books, I thought I'd toss out a few non-Hero 
>items that I had found ot be very useful. 
> 
>2 - GURPS Lands of Mystery: A great sourcebook detailing real world 
>archelogical sites and what may have really happened there.  Includes a 
>number of maps and floor plans as well as adventure seeds.  An excellent 
>source for fantasy, horror and pulp games. 
 
I can recommend West End Games' INDIANA JONES and the Lands of Adventure 
for similar reasons.  A 96 page book divided into four sections (Europe, 
Middle East/Africa, The Orient/Australia, and the Americas) that serve as 
geography primer, thumbnail history sketch and sociopolitical overview for 
each region circa the 1930's.  There are several adventure hooks and 
writeups for NPCs, both individual (Captain Hehichiro Matsumori) and 
generic (Typical Dig Assistant, Standard Waterfront Tough, etc.) 
 
>3 - Call of Cthulthu ver 5.5: A nicely laid out book with some great art 
>and articles.  New spells (over 200), monsters, gods, magical artifacts 
>and other details make it fun to read.  CoC stats can almost be used 
>straight up as Hero stats (STR for STR, POW for EGO, HP for BODY etc) and 
>the new SIZ chart gives an idea of scale (and thus, how much Growth or DI 
>to give the creature in question.  A must for horror GMs (or, if you are 
>like me and run a supernatural/cyberpunk game - that too).  Also good for 
>fantasy GMs looking for some strangeness. 
 
I succumbed to the Call of Cthulhu long ago.  I buy virtually every CoC 
product Chaosium puts out -- most of the adventures are great to read, even 
if you never play some of them.  CoC 5.5 was one of the more worthwhile 
purchases, and curious players should stand their ground and not be scared 
off by the $29.95 price tag.  After all, if you're going to let a little 
thing like a price tag scare you, what chance will you have against the 
Dark Young of Shub-Niggurath? 
 
One ancient and blasphemous text -- er, out of print game module -- I found 
recently was Chaosium 2313 "Terror From the Stars".  It contains, among 
other things, The Field Manual of the Theron Marks Society.  This 12-page 
insert is a hilarous read, but it actually has some useful tips for 
successful investigating.  Most of the funny bits are in the form of the 
quotes at the beginning of each section, and the "handwritten" margin notes. 
 
"Frank Glup was one of the all-time great hatchet men.  His kill list read 
like an index of the Necronomicon."  -- Theron Marks 
 
"Sanity is a sawed-off shotgun."  -- Frank Glup 
 
Damon 
 
- ------------------------ 
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability  
of the human mind to correlate all its contents. 
			-- H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu" 
 
------------------------------ 
 
End of champ-l-digest V1 #139 
***************************** 


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