Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 14

Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 2:48 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #14

champ-l-digest Wednesday, November 4 1998 Volume 01 : Number 014



In this issue:

Re: Breadth vs. Depth
Re: Automatons
Re: Breadth vs. Depth
Re: Immortal Challenge!
Re: Immortal Challenge!
Re: Breadth vs. Depth
Re: Immortal Challenge!
Re: Breadth vs. Depth
Re: Campaign cities
Re: Poll Homegrown Universes (was Re: Breadth vs. Depth)
Re: Immortal Challenge!
RE: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)
Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)
Re: Expanded gestures and incantations
Re: Area effect Vs. Hit locations chart
Perceptions of Reality (Re: Immortal supers.)
Re: Hero Creator and Creation Workshop
Re: Physical Stat Limits
Re: German Supers
Re: Physical Stats -> putz game
Re: Alternate Superhero campaigns
Re: Would anyone like to see PCs posted
Re: Would anyone like to see PCs posted
Re: Would anyone like to see PCs posted
Re: OIHID

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:38:34 EDT
From: <HeroGames@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Breadth vs. Depth

In a message dated 9/2/98 3:59:53 PM, rook@shell.infinex.com writes:

>1. Carboard Heroes (I'm a firm believer that anytime a game publisher asks
> what people want; the first answer MUST be Cardboard Heroes. They were
> the coolest game suppliment I ever encountered.)

Actually, we have done a set... they're included in WildStrike! (which should
be up in our online store next week, and in retail stores in about a month).
We may do more if people like them. There's also a company planning on doing
sets for different genres, and we'll be selling those through our online store
when they come out (planned for late fall release, I believe).

>2. A darn good Genre book to accompany 5th edition.

I assume you mean the superhero genre... and we have someone working on that
right now.

>3. Settings

We have a couple more Champions campaign settings that are from distinctive
universes, though of course you can use pieces in any campaign. Jason Vester's
TAROT book is in editing, and we're really looking forward to Scott Bennie's
GESTALT campaign book, which he is working hard to finish this fall.

>4. Generic Setting NPCs

We're including a lot of those in books like Bay City; when Hudson City comes
out next year, you'll see that there, too. I'm not sure if we'd do a whole
book devoted solely to NPCs, though.

>5. Generic Adventure hooks
>6. Specific to a Setting NPC's and Adventures
>
We included adventure seeds in Bay City, and we're planning to do more.

One thing we're planning (and are looking for authors to execute): One Night
Specials, basically a complete adventure for an evening. We'd sell these as
PDF files through direct download from our web site, for something like $5.
The idea being that if you've got the gang coming over, and are stumped for
what to run, you head to the web site and grab an adventure. (Actually, each
one would probably be good for multiple nights of adventure, with interesting
hooks so you could extend it outward as an ongoing plot thread for your
campaign.)

- -- Steve Peterson, Hero Games

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 22:22:35 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Automatons

Filksinger wrote:

> From: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> >
> > Once a week is being pretty nice. My Pentuim
> > pro 300 with 128 meg ram and 6
> > gig hard disk running NT 4.0 locked up on me 6
> > times today. The 486/66 with 16
> > meg of Ram and 3 gigs of disk hasn't locked up
> > for over a year (at least its
> > been that long since I got a service call on that
> > machine).
> >
>
> If it locked up on you six times in one day, you have some
> kind of significant problem beyond just NT 4.0. There was a
> study done recently by some fairly well respected computer
> industry company, I forget which one, which companies like
> SUN were waving around, saying that it showed how unstable
> NT was. The study said that, on a properly running WinNT
> system, NT would crash an average of 3 times a month.
>
> Compared to UNIX, that _is_ unstable. But it is a lot better
> than 6 times in one day. I don't get typically more than one
> lockup on my Win98 work machine, and have that thing on for
> at least 9 hours a day. I'm still trying to figure out what
> it is that keeps crashing Explorer- it really shouldn't even
> be once a day.
>
> Filksinger

Working quite heavily on the socket communications of a client server
app using Net Dynamics (which requires 92 meg of RAM memory to run
properly) on a machine with 96 meg of RAM. In short very little room
for mistakes.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:28:00 EDT
From: <ErolB1@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Breadth vs. Depth

In a message dated 98-09-02 23:11:45 EDT, HeroGames@AOL.COM writes:

> >1. Carboard Heroes (I'm a firm believer that anytime a game publisher asks
> > what people want; the first answer MUST be Cardboard Heroes. They were
> > the coolest game suppliment I ever encountered.)
>
> Actually, we have done a set... they're included in WildStrike! (which
> should
> be up in our online store next week, and in retail stores in about a
month).
> We may do more if people like them. There's also a company planning on
doing
> sets for different genres, and we'll be selling those through our online
> store
> when they come out (planned for late fall release, I believe).

I'd like to suggest making B&W Cardboard Hero files available to download &
print out as shareware, with the colorized version being available only to
those who sent in their shareware $$$.

I'd also like to suggest that your cardboard heroes have proper fronts &
backs, like the original SJG version, rather than having the backside just
read 'FIGURE 1' or having 'janus' heroes with two fronts.

>
> >2. A darn good Genre book to accompany 5th edition.
>
> I assume you mean the superhero genre... and we have someone working on
that
> right now.

What *I'd* like to see is more support for the non-superhero genres - in
particular Fantasy Hero & Star Hero books for 5th ed. Also, a book of science
fiction gadgets done up in Hero terms (i.e. a Hero equivalent to GURPS
Ultratech)

Erol K. Bayburt
Evil Genius for a Better Tomorrow

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 22:33:40 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Immortal Challenge!

>>> A while back someone said 'build an immortal on 250 points'. Well, I'm
>>> working on it. I hope to have the character done in a week or two.
>>
>> With or without house rules?
>>
>>Using the house rule that I can import new powers from Fuzion, I can do it
>>on about 25 points.
>>
>> 20 points- undying, regenerates past death at normal body rec rate.
>> Must define some 'common' effect that you don't regen
>> from.
>>
>> 5+ points- (I forget how much this one cost, maybe 10...) can
>> regenerate lost limbs.
>>
>>Done.
>>
> Remember to multiply those Fuzion point costs by five.

I did. In Fuzion it's 4 power points. Times 5 equals 20 points in Hero.

It's an add on to regeneration.

1 or 2 more to regenerate lost limbs. Basic regeneration in Fuzion is
based on moving your BODY REC along the time chart. A much better system
than Hero uses.

- --
Rook WebRPG TownHall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:45:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Immortal Challenge!

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Brian Wong wrote:

> > A while back someone said 'build an immortal on 250 points'. Well, I'm
> > working on it. I hope to have the character done in a week or two.
>
> With or without house rules?

No house rules, straight BBB rules. I've finihsed the stats and most of
the skills (and the immortal powers), now all I have to do is work on the
disads and the background history.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 22:11:00 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Breadth vs. Depth

> I hope I'm not wasting my time rewriting VOICE, and writing up Cascade
> Champions, in CU terms.... (In the latter case, an update of Project
> Sunburst will be included.)
> What would you guys say if the CU were carefully retooled (either
> gradually or all at once) into a more cohesive place?

I don't think it can be without dropping large sections of it and lots
of legal wrangling to get the rights permanently in Hero's hands. Which
will likely cost more than is profitable for Hero.


> The way things are going, there will be distinct minorities working in
> the CU, homegrown, SA, C:NM, and various other published universes. As
> outstanding as SA:COH apparently is, I don't think that it'll dominate the
> market the way you seem to be implying here. (Of course, I'm saying this
> without having actually seen the book; once I do, I may change my tune.)

Well at present, only San Angelo is slated to be supported with print
(paper) copies of it's material in the Hero system. CU is going to disk
books, CNM is going to Fuzion but with online support. I think that by
nature says that San Angelo will be what future people think of as the
Champions Official Universe. And as I have the book I'll say it deserves
that title. It's singly the best book ever produced in the name of
Champions.
My biggest concern is that I don't think it's possible to maintain a
standard as high as that book set. But I'm desperatley hoping to be
proved wrong. :)

- --
Rook WebRPG TownHall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:12:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Immortal Challenge!

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:

> The problem here is that Fuzion add-ons can be converted to either
> straight points or Advantages. +2 vs lost limbs and +4 vs death can
> translate to either 10 and 20 points respectively, or a +1/2 and +1
> Advantage respectively. Which of the two (if either) is the "correct"
> translation is a decision of the Two Steves (Peterson and Long).

I'm going to go for 'straight points', because it seems to make more sense
to me. If it's straight points, then you can have a character who heals
at the normal rate, but can regrow limbs or come back from the dead. If
it's an advantage, then can I take 'regrows limbs' on my standard (0-pt)
human healing rate?

J

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:34:41 EDT
From: <HeroGames@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Breadth vs. Depth

In a message dated 9/2/98 8:28:00 PM, ErolB1 writes:

>I'd like to suggest making B&W Cardboard Hero files available to download
>& print out as shareware, with the colorized version being available only
>to those who sent in their shareware $$$.
>
>I'd also like to suggest that your cardboard heroes have proper fronts
>& backs, like the original SJG version, rather than having the backside
>just read 'FIGURE 1' or having 'janus' heroes with two fronts.

The cardstock heroes in WildStrike! have a shadow on the back, for a good
reason: the cardstock is coated, so that you can use a dry-erase pen to keep
track of damage on the back of the cardstock figure itself. This is very handy
in WildStrike!

>>
>> >2. A darn good Genre book to accompany 5th edition.
>>
>> I assume you mean the superhero genre... and we have someone working
>on that
>> right now.
>
>What *I'd* like to see is more support for the non-superhero genres - in
>particular Fantasy Hero & Star Hero books for 5th ed. Also, a book of science
>fiction gadgets done up in Hero terms (i.e. a Hero equivalent to GURPS
>Ultratech)
>

We have a new edition of Fantasy Hero in the works, as well as a new author
working on Star Hero. We have also just released Broken Kingdoms, and we have
half-a-dozen or so other fantasy supplements in the works. There's a complete
Star Hero campaign setting being written right now by Pat Sweeney, author of
San Angelo, and we have other support planned.

- -- Steve Peterson, Hero Games

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 10:37:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Miq Millman <miq@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Campaign cities

"Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin" says:
> I freely admit that I can be somewhat oversensitive on this issue, but I am
> certain I'm not the only one. By all means, take pride in your city, but
> please give me a sense that you are saying "My city is interesting and
> worthwhile because..." rather than "My city is better than yours
> because...", and be aware that you can give the latter impression without
> actually singling out another city to suffer by comparison with your own.

And then there are the Oregonians:

The weather is always damp and dreary. It rains all the time. The roads are
filled with slow moving lettuce farmer's in their diesel tractors. There
is no culture of any value here, just plain boring settlers and their
decendents. No professional baseball or football teams. You don't want to
come here. It sucks. Stay whereever you are, because it has to be better
than Portland.

Or the Seattlites:

It's even colder and wetter here than in Portland. The winter time has
practically no daylight--it gets dark really early, and in the summer there
is practically no night, stay light until 11 pm. There are scads of
tourists and the roads are always packed with traffic jams. Now that
grunge is dead, all culture has moved back to Los Angeles and San Francisco
on the west coast. You don't need to come here for the coffee, Starbuck's
is everywhere, and it isn't even Seattle's best coffee anymore (local in
joke, there is a coffee chain call Seattle's Best Coffee--the joke is you
go into a Starbucks and ask, "is this Seattle's Best Coffee?" They grudgingly
say "no it's across the street", then you say, "well I only want the best",
and leave). Stay where you are its better, really.


There wasn't that convincing? No need for a source book for the pacific
northwest now, right?


- --
__
Miq Millman miq@teleport.com
Tualatin, OR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 22:38:13 -0300
From: Trevor Barrie <tbarrie@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Poll Homegrown Universes (was Re: Breadth vs. Depth)

On Thu, Sep 03, 1998 at 01:37:24PM -0700, Lizard wrote:

> Of course, I started back in 1978 when there WERE no published settings;it
> never occured to us back then that we could use someone elses world.

I thought that published settings (specifically, the Blackmoor campaign
setting which later became part of the D&D "Known World"'s backstory)
had been around as long as the RPG itself.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:25:42 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Immortal Challenge!

> >
> > 5+ points- (I forget how much this one cost, maybe 10...) can
> > regenerate lost limbs.
> >
>
> In my book, having Regenerate not restore lost limbs is worth a
> Limitation.

Personally; I agree. But when the Fuzion mailing list guys wrote that
power for Hero, that's how they did it.
Personally, I think they should just add in the part about regenerating
past death as an add on to a REC based Regen power.

- --
Rook WebRPG TownHall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ Nothing vast enters the life of mortals without a curse.
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:42:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: RE: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)

On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Wolf, Dave wrote:

> >states?
>
> >>Well let's not forget that most of the comics are written in the US and
> >>the US is the biggest market as I understand it.
>
> Just had to jump in and correct a blaring error.

<Error Snipped>

> Comics started over there and were adopted world wide. It's about the only
> thing we've ever stolen from them and adopted culturally.

I have to jump in and correct *another* blaring error.

Comics *are* an American creation. They started in the early 30's really,
and collected books of colored Sunday strips were avalaible before then.
The first comic books came out in the 20's. In Japan, comics got their
start in the 50's, *after* WWII when American sevicemen brought their
comics over. The creation of the popular anime style can also be traced
to Disney films being shown in post-WWII Japan.

Japan created its own unique style of comics, yes, but they are an
American creation.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 06:33:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)

> > Must most of the hero populance live in the United
> >states?
>
> Well let's not forget that most of the comics are written in the US and the
> US is the biggest market as I understand it.
>

This is actually indicative of another very different problem with
US society. My wife comes from Korea; a country known internationally for
it's isolationist views. Yet she knowns more about modern european culture
than I could ever dream of. Just yestderday we were at a blockbuster video and
she could tell me the story in about half the foriegn films on the shelf. A
shelf I noted was composed of only about 1 out 50+ racks in the store. When
I lived in her country (3.5 years) I remember hearing music from multiple
nations on the radio and in TV videos. The cinema was likewise an international
mix.

Here I'm lucky if I catch a single glimpse of some cultural item
produced outside our borders once a year. And I live in San Francisco, a city
full of internationalism by US standards. Yet it fails to compare to the small
town of 100000 people I lived in in Korea.

Other people I've met in my travels or here at home have told me similar
stories from all over the world.
Despite the US's incredible power on the world scene; we are possibly
the most isolated nation on earth; second only to maybe North Korea.

I'm routinely embarrassed by my wife when she begins discussing things
popular or known in asia or europe like it was common knowledge. Where she grew
up, despite legal bans on much cultural importation; there was still much
heavier exposure to world thinking than we get here.

In the US; we always think of everything in terms of ourselves. We
completely lack the ability to percieve the world from outside our terms.

And comics, as a small part of culture; reflect this.

When I read comics from Korea, europe, or other parts of asia; a good
half of them take place in settings not within the borders or cultures of the
people that produced them.

> > How many homosexual heroes do we see?
>
> Not many, but what % of the general population are homosexuals?
> What is the deal with the Comic Code which dates back a way?
>
> One member of Gen-13 is a lesbian, I can't think of any others

Go pick up issues 16 and 17 of Young Heroes in Love by DC comics.

Two of the heroes are just realizing their attraction to each other.
Two male heroes. Of course, these are also the issues where everybody elses
relationships are also coming to the fore.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 98 12:40:25 -0400
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Expanded gestures and incantations

Jason Sullivan ravanos@njcu.edu 9/7/98 12:40 PM

>On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, qts wrote:
>>
>> Restrainable isn't a standard limitation.
> What makes it 'non-standard'?

Restrainable isn't in the core rules but was added in
the system almanac (1 I think). Many people don't
count those publications as cannon so it is legitimate
to argue that Restrainable isn't standard. I get the
impression most people do use it however and that
gives rise to an interesting question.

Restrainable just means that a grab or entangle can
disable an ability. The clasic is wings that can't
be extended and/or are entangled. This is rated as a
- -1/2 limitation. Now compare this to gestures,
particularly as represented in this thread. Gestures
disable an ability due to any successful hit (much
easier than restrainables criteria) and are necessarily
very obvious which hinderable doesn't have to be (say
an internal weapon that has to be extended to work.
A grab stops the extention, hence hiderable, but the
extention doesn't have to be obvious to anyone in LoS).
That should mean that gestures is a much more limiting
hinderance, but it only provides 1/2 the benefit as a
- -1/4 Limitation.

Is it possible that gestures should be upgraded to 1/2 and
then allow it to cover the "non-standard" restrainable
limitation as well? Or does restrainable need to be
downgraded to 1/4 and used with Visible, an additional -1/4,
to represent wings that are quite obvious when used, current
gestures then becomming Visible & Restrainable by default?

PAX,
John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:16:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Area effect Vs. Hit locations chart

> Hi, I have a question. I'm currently in a FH game playing a mage and
> have a AE fireball. Since we are also playing with hit locations, how do you
> merge the two :AE technically hitting all locations :and game balance? I
> can see multiple solutions for this, unfortunately not all parties ( including
> physics and common sense ) will not be satisfied. How has the list dealt with
> this problem?? Thank you for listening.

Ignore hit locations when dealing with area effect. Just roll damage
normally. For killing attacks stun modifier use the multiple on the hit location
for stun, but not for body. That's simply because they are more balanced than a
simple 1d6-1.

- --
Rook WebRPG Town Hall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:49:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Perceptions of Reality (Re: Immortal supers.)

> << However, I can see your point in most super worlds. My own is a world
> that has multiple unrealistic assumptions built into the setting on
> purpose. I tweaked more with the 'perceptions of reality / mass
> subconcious' than with things like science and technology. The only
> scientific 'tweak' I have (albeit a major one) is that supers
> essentially individually define their own rules of reality. >>
>
> Well i use a minor cognitive equivalent of this- that many supers
> construct their powers based no their image of how they'd function
> as a superhero, ect. What did you mean by a tweak or reality
> perceptions and mass subconcious? As in, the type of thing we see
> explaining tech in ww's m:ta, or i assume more somehting like
> a general passage of history as defined as an extension
> of the human psyche? Or i could be completly off track. .
>

Lets see...
It's more a thing where the people in my world have a different 'norm'
for how they view reality than we do. Our worlds 'norm' seems to assume that
certain things are real and certain things aren't. Certain thought patterns
are possible in a sane person and certain patterns aren't.
That's what I've tweaked. In my world people assume a few basic things:

1. There is a tangible good vs. evil paradigm.
2. Society accepts the way in which supers operate as natural and normal
for them to do so.
3. The idea of a reality where a certain percentage of the population
breaks the laws of reality that the bulk of the population
lives under is accepted. In fact the suggestion that it could
be anything else is pure fictional fantasy.
4. The 'Heroic Model' of taking on a personal struggle against evil is
an ideal in all cultures. Though group focused cultures will
define it as a group struggle.
5. If you have powers, you will become either a Hero or a Villain.
nobody just ignores it or uses it to help their daily lives.

I could go on for some length... However:
Look at it this way. In horror movies the people always keep doing stuff
that we know is irrational and unessessarily putting them in danger.
Those people in their 'reality' think differently than we do. The way
they behave is not absurd to them. A similar situation is observed in
soap operas and comics.

In most roleplaying however people ignore this and use the logical
thinking of our own reality; rather than that of the realities of their
characters. I've simply written up a bit of info on how people in my
world should function; and told myself and my players that we should
stick to it.

So for instance; I've done such things as telling players that they're
playing out of role when they start questioning the validity of being
heroes, or when they question the usefulness of capturing villains and
handing them over to the authorities. I've also had to stop myself when
I began giving too much 'realistic motivation' to a villain, or
remind myself that a villain with a super virus would not just flush
it into the city sewers and thereby spread it with ease in days into
the entire population; but would rather build a super missile and
launch it into the city from a remote hidden island protected by a team
of villains... etc...
Heroes and villains have to act grand-scale. It's in their
nature. Just like characters in a horror flick have to check out the
basement with the errie noises, or invistaget the spooky lights in the
swamp... Or how soap opera characters have to all conive and complicate
things rather than just be straightforward and honest. :)

> << So, that said; there's potential here for another discussion if we want
> it. :) That being what sort of effect would immortal supers have on a
> world's society?
>
> Well immortal supers can actually function as another level
> as the 'excessive powers' that i mentioned (like reading minds, ect)
> What i mean is that their agenda can span the centuries, ect,
> BUT they are also very hard to get rid of. Like as not they would
> end up raving loonies, however if they did not their abilities and
> mental status would leave everyone else in the dust- think of it
> like a geometric curve, if we postulate that an immortal super
> has mental capabilities which allow them to gain knowlege
> across the ages, then they'd be WAY above a normal human,

True. If we apply realistic models. I'm in that camp that doesn't
like the Super Hero genre to include too much realism. I think in a realistic
setting an immortal would cause serious continuity or balance problems.

- --
Rook WebRPG Town Hall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:11:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Hero Creator and Creation Workshop

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Albert Deschesne wrote:

> >> It's unlikely any time soon. Until the sales of the Creation Workshop get
> >> large enough, it's not cost-effective for us to develop a Macintosh version.
> >> In other words, the cost of development, management and sales would exceed the
> >> revenue from the software until we reach a certain amount of sales, and we're
> >> nowhere near that level. We do know that Creation Workshop works just fine
> >> under Virtual PC on a Macintosh, though.
> >
> >Yes, well some of us don't yet own a Mac that can run that.
>
> I was running it on my 6100/60 (albeit REALLY slowly), and it just flies now
> on my new G3.
>
> (I had to say that) 8-)

Yes, well in two months I hope to have *my* G3 to brag about.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:51:06 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Physical Stat Limits

>
> The other two systems brought up so far have had merits, I'm just not as
> interested in a soft cap. I could do the vaguely defined limits, but I
> expect no matter what is said the limits would be pushed until they found
> where I would draw the line. A soft cap with increasing costs per point
> would slow down the drive toward 20, but not prevent it.

The details of the method I use; the 'averages system'; are shown on
these two pages:

http://www.infinex.com/~rook/alluvia/FH/character.html
http://www.infinex.com/~rook/champs/power.html

It really does work to prevent any concept of power gaming. All
incentives to do such by a player have simply been removed.

- --
Rook WebRPG TownHall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ Nothing vast enters the life of mortals without a curse.
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:20:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: German Supers

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Todd Hanson wrote:

> Again, I don't speak German, so I cant vouch for the validity of the
> names, but they certainly sound good ;)

Speaking of which, here is a name I found that I used for a dragon in a
fantasy game:

Soldatenmangel

Translation? "Soldier-mangler" PCs tend to go white when they find out
what it means.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 00:39:32 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Physical Stats -> putz game

>I'm about to start a new FH campaign and I thought long and hard about
>keeping players from jacking their stats and I've come up with the
>following approach. Consider the first half dozen or so sessions as a
>prelude to the game and start your players at a relatively low point
>total. My players are starting at 50 pts. with 40pts. in disads

I always start at 50+50, was pretty easy to keep the power level down, I
dont understand the need for 150 point pcs right away. Id rather people be
nervous when they see goblins, not laugh. But the magic system has to be
worked on to make it feasible at that level. The system in the book makes
mages totally useless at that level.

- ----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 00:44:11 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Alternate Superhero campaigns

> I'm interested in the strange explanations GM use to explain the
>presence of super powers in their campaigns. I'm familiar with the
>collective unconscious mind of humanity creating heroes to fit Icons
>or ideals like Scott Benie's Gesault World. The WildCards Universe
>where powers are mainly mental powers created by the wildcard virus.
>The WildCats or the Justice Machine Universe where the SuperHeroes
>are all aliens. The X titles of marvel fame where the majority of
>Paranormals are mutants. Or the supernatural "Magic" source of
>paranormal powers in the World of the Elementals. I'm interested in
>the little twists and strange turns you've taken in your campaign
>worlds.

I use an alternate cosmology. The 'dark matter' that is required for the
universe to be in the occilating big bang/big collapse theory (like... 90%
of the universe has to be dark matter -- dont get me started) is in fact a
type of radiation, called Marlon Rays after the guy who discovered them.
Josef Marlon is in fact a nazi ex scientist, but thats another story.
These Marlon Rays are produced by nuclear blasts and are shielded from the
planet by the atmosphere, but any items in space are highly embedded with
this stuff and anyone who goes into space gets affected. Their children
tend to have powers.

So in the past it was very rare, but its more common recently (especially
in Russia, due to nuclear waste and their desire to send lots of guys to
space and make supers...) but in the past sometimes someone would have a
kid after exposure to an asteroid or something, and someone like Merlin or
Tarzan resulted.



- ----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:12:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Would anyone like to see PCs posted

> Would anybody:
> A) Be interested to my posting the player characters from the game I'm
> running.
> B) Care to post the player characters from games they are running.
> It might be nice to see what kinds of characters are being played out
> there.
>
I've always prefered those things being on a website myself, with a
posting here refering to the URL. If you're ISP doesn't give webspace,
there's Geocities.

- --
Rook WebRPG Town Hall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:39:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Would anyone like to see PCs posted

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Max Callahan wrote:

> Would anybody:
> A) Be interested to my posting the player characters from the game I'm
> running.
> B) Care to post the player characters from games they are running.
> It might be nice to see what kinds of characters are being played out
> there.

A: Sure.
B: You can visit my website
<http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html> and find more characters
than you can shake a stick at.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:42:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Would anyone like to see PCs posted

> >> I've always prefered those things being on a website myself, with a
> >>posting here refering to the URL. If you're ISP doesn't give webspace,
> >>there's Geocities.
> >>
> >INCREDABLY slow, but 5 megs for free.
>
> Oh, really? The web hosting here on Around the Klock is also free, the
> speed is decent, you get 10MB, and there are no annoying pop-up ads.
> That, and the sysadmin is one majorly cool guy. :-]
> (Sorry about the off-topic shameless plug... but I just had to speak up!)

I have a Geocities site. No pop-ups (you can disable them, they
tell you how; most people never read the FAQ), fast speed, 10mb, free email
account.

It's at:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/BrightFuture.html

for those who don't believe me or are curious. It's a Champions PBeM
I play in set in the CNM universe but under 4th edition. Won't load
under IE 3.0 or lower though (needs netscape 3.0, or IE 4.0) due
to a script I put in that crashes on old IE browsers. But then, there's
no valid excuse to not upgrade anyway. What with free software and
all...

- --
Rook WebRPG Town Hall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:11:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: OIHID

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Filksinger wrote:

> In a similar vein, what would you give for a limitation where the points
> from something that cannot be part of a Multipower are deducted from the
> Multipower anyway when it is in use?

Er...something that cannot be part of a multipower? Are we talking
'special power' here (in which case I'd say allow it as GM's fiat) or are
we talking another power framework? Hmm. I'd have to say that that's a
pretty hefty limitation, really, since you're effectively tying up twice
the point value of the power. I'd have to go with at least a -1 (which
is, I think, the 'going rate' for this type of 'lockout' limitation
anyway)

J

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

End of champ-l-digest V1 #14
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Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 01:41 PM