Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 152
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 10:36 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #152
champ-l-digest Wednesday, January 20 1999 Volume 01 : Number 152
In this issue:
Re: Character: Celeborn
Re: slippery floors?
Re: Character: Celeborn
Re: slippery floors?
Re: Gambit Write-up...
Re: Character: Celeborn
Elven Rings
Re: slippery floors?
Re: Character: Celeborn
Re: Character: Celeborn
Re: Speedster Flavor
Re; speedster flavor
Re:SAN check! (was slippery floors?)
Re: Speedster Flavor
Re: Killing and Expectations
Re: Re; speedster flavor
Re: slippery floors?
Re: slippery floors?
Re: You know you're a good GM when... (Update)
Re: Loser Heroes
Re: superleap attacks (Dragon's "Bouncing" article)
Re: slippery floors?
Character: Denethor
Unsubscribe
Re: You know you're a good GM when... (Update)
Re: Batman's CAK (and long DC continuity rant)
Re: Batman's CAK (and long DC continuity rant)
Re: Character: Celeborn
Re: Character: Celeborn
Re: superleap attacks (Dragon's "Bouncing" article)
Re: Batman's CAK (and long DC continuity rant)
Re: slippery floors?
Re:SAN check! (was slippery floors?)
Re: superleap attacks (Dragon's "Bouncing" article)
Re: Batman's CAK (and long DC continuity rant)
Re: Loser Heroes
Re: superleap attacks (Dragon's "Bouncing" article)
Re: Character: Celeborn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:48:34 -0800 (PST)
From: miq@teleport.com
Subject: Re: Character: Celeborn
Damn you Scott, as if its not like I don't have a ton of other things to do
in my meager amounts of free time. Now, thanks to your excellent write
ups, I have to go back and reread The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
Bah! thanks for nothin.
- --
__
Miq Millman miq@teleport.com
Tualatin, OR
------------------------------
Date: 20 Jan 1999 15:06:28 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: slippery floors?
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"L" == Lockie <jonesl@cqnet.com.au> writes:
L> idea for slippery floors, stop me if you've heard this one, suggested by
L> one of my players. Martial throw, ae, continuous, uncontrolled. neh??
Aside from the fact that you cannot apply advantages to martial arts
manuevers?
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE2pjdDgl+vIlSVSNkRAg4TAKCiWw4TwKKZ4lC1WQU7fLUJSbUyKwCgmMeh
57GqoYHY4B4fj7HzxK1w0CY=
=uWZ6
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:58:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Celeborn
> When Sauron preyed upon Beren's men, it was as a werewolf.
> When he wished to dismay the Gondorians, he didn't fly over
> their city, writing "Surrender Aragorn" in the sky: he
> caused Orodruin to become active, filling the sky with smoke
> and ash. Tolkien's magic has a flavor to it. It is never
> the center of attention.
> It supports the story, not defines it.
It's real hard to GM a story that way. The commonality of
magic in games like AD&D and Role-Master, as well as
flamboyant Hollywood depictions of swords-n-sorcery,
have largely spoiled the subtlety for many, self included.
==
Elliott aka The Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:08:52 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: slippery floors?
> What's wrong with that? There's no big Cuthulian monster that will
>show up for mentioning that.
>
> Linked, linked, linked.
>
> There, I said it, and noth....
GM rolls 1d100 for sanity loss for everyone on the list that witnesses Mr.
Gilberg's untimely, horrifying end...
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:33:02 -0500
From: David W Cheung <dwcheung@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Gambit Write-up...
Well, if one uses the old Marvel Heroes to Champions Conversions,
Spiderman has about a 33 DEX. I wouldn't have given Gambit above 30 either.
But it should be higher than even "olympic" level since it is technically a
part of his set of powers, at least, according to one issue of X-men... :)
He also, supposedly, had some sort of "persuasion" ability, which was only
shown the very first few issues he appeared. Part of his charm I guess...
Maybe he should have a very high Persuasion and/or COnversation roll to
represent this...
My $.02 at least...
David
At 02:34 AM 1/21/99 +1000, Lockie wrote:
>i dunno. . spiderman level? really? *yeesh* marvel twonks. i'd put spidey at
>45, gambit at flat 30. opinions?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
>>There are a few pages with writeups of everyone, but Gambit is one of those
>>characters that the writers didnt actually flesh out ahead of time and keep
>>adding powers to as time goes on. He started out a quick martial arts guy
>>with energy charging ability and has since gained inhuman (spiderman level)
>>agility and so forth. I personally think hes kind of boring but he would
>>make a fun character to play.
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
>>Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:58:07 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Celeborn
At 12:48 PM 1/20/99 -0800, miq@teleport.com wrote:
>Damn you Scott, as if its not like I don't have a ton of other things to do
>in my meager amounts of free time. Now, thanks to your excellent write
>ups, I have to go back and reread The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
>
>Bah! thanks for nothin.
You're very welcome! I hope you follow up with The Silmarillion,
since you're not busy.
Next up: Denethor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But where is the ambiguity? Over there, in a box."
John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:56:15 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Elven Rings
At 12:49 PM 1/20/99 -0800, you wrote:
>At 02:35 PM 1/20/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>Mmmmmmmm.....Speedster flavor........
>
>now start drooling like Homer Simpson heheheheh
>
>Hey I thought Celeborn was one of the Elves that had a ring? Celeborn,
>Elrond, and Galadriel right? And umm someone gave Gandalf his... dont
>remember who.
Nope. Cirdan the Shipwright had Narya, the Ring of Fire, but gave it to
Gandalf.
Galadriel has Nenya, the Ring of Water, which she got from Celebrimbor, the
maker of the Three Rings. Elrond has Vilya, the Ring of Air, which he got
from Gil-Galad, last King of the Noldor.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But where is the ambiguity? Over there, in a box."
John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:37:08 -0600 (CST)
From: gilberg@ou.edu
Subject: Re: slippery floors?
>L> idea for slippery floors, stop me if you've heard this one, suggested by
>L> one of my players. Martial throw, ae, continuous, uncontrolled. neh??
>
>Aside from the fact that you cannot apply advantages to martial arts
>manuevers?
As much as I might like this particular ruling, do you have a
citation to back this up?
-Tim Gilberg
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:03:49 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Character: Celeborn
>Is that certain, or just speculated? Did he even have that ring in the
>Hobbit? For some reason I thought he was given it in LotR, but it's been
>such a long time that I'm not sure.
Depends on what you mean by "speculated". There is no direct reference to
him using it in the Hobbit or the Lord of the Rings, and I think the
reference to him receiving it is in the Simarillion (sic?). However, the
fireballs in the Hobbit are something that we never see anyone else doing,
so it makes sense, anyway. Even then, it was little used, and didn't
actually get them out of the danger in that circumstance.
>And, I got the impression that he was loathe to use the ring anyway,
>because it would attract the attention of Sauron. Wasn't he worried about
>that in the Hobbit?
I expect he was, but the circumstances were desperate, after all. In any
event, it still didn't figure prominantly in the stories, whether it was his
power or the power of the ring.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:51:01 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Celeborn
At 01:41 PM 1/20/99 -0600, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, James Jandebeur wrote:
>
>> >Um...Gandalf can't fly, true, but he most certainly /can/ hurl fireballs.
>> >Go dig out your copy of the Hobbit and re-read the scene when Thorin,
>> >Gandalf and company have been treed by the wolves.
>>
>> However, that wasn't because of his own powers, that was because he had the
>> Ring of Fire, one of the three Rings of Power given to the elves.
>
>Is that certain, or just speculated? Did he even have that ring in the
>Hobbit? For some reason I thought he was given it in LotR, but it's been
>such a long time that I'm not sure.
Cirdan gave the Ring Narya to Gandalf when the Istari first arrived in
Middle-Earth, about the year Third Age 1000.
>And, I got the impression that he was loathe to use the ring anyway,
>because it would attract the attention of Sauron. Wasn't he worried about
>that in the Hobbit?
Galadriel was worried about using Nenya, the Ring of Water, but Gandalf
seems to have been willing to use Narya in an emergency. Note one of the
first things he says to the Balrog: "I am the Keeper of the Secret Fire".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But where is the ambiguity? Over there, in a box."
John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:52:54 -0800
From: Kirk Lund <klund@technologist.com>
Subject: Re: Speedster Flavor
I think these are very dependent on the GM. Technically you wouldn't
need these since (I think) the rules don't say anything about taking
damage from using your own Flight or Running power at 100" (or similarly
high velocity).
This could be a house rule, where the GM assigns some speed
threshhold such as Mach 1 to be a starting point for gradual increments
of damage taken from friction and difficulty breathing.
I suppose a GM could simply require these LS powers for any super
fast character. Isn't that unfair though? Maybe. "LS: Protection From
Using Your Own Energy Blast" comes to mind. I'm not trying to raz you
Lisa, I'm just wondering if it's fair. The character spent the points on
a power. Why should he or she take damage for using it?
The power is worth less so you could reflect this by adding in Power
Lim's like "Causes friction damage -1/2" and "Cannot breathe, must
hold breath while using power -1/2" (insert whatever modifier values
you feel are right). Then if you buy the specialized LS powers, you're
just sort of making a double negative effect. While such LS and Mods
reflect my thoughts while reading the comics (How does the Flash
avoid burning up his clothes?), I don't think the Hero System actually
requires them in the write up.
- --Kirk
At 02:12 PM 1/20/99 -0500, Lisa Hartjes wrote:
>I almost forgot these:
>
>LS: High Speed Friction (keeps the character's body (and clothing) from
>taking damage from running at such high speeds) for 3 pts. (doesn't affect
>people they're carrying)
>
>LS: Can breathe at high speeds (cost as per breathe in unusual environment)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:14:17 -0600 (CST)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re; speedster flavor
Somebody mentioned LS:Friction caused by High Speed....
How would you actually buy an attack like that ?
Curt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:58:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re:SAN check! (was slippery floors?)
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, James Jandebeur wrote:
> > What's wrong with that? There's no big Cuthulian monster that will
> >show up for mentioning that.
> >
> > Linked, linked, linked.
> >
> > There, I said it, and noth....
>
> GM rolls 1d100 for sanity loss for everyone on the list that witnesses Mr.
> Gilberg's untimely, horrifying end...
When the evil witch Ursla monstered out into a half-human half-octopus in
"Little Mermaid" did anyone else have the reaction I did?
Said reaction being, of course: SAN CHECK!
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"We are men of action. Lies do not become us."
Westley, the Man in Black (Cary Elwes), from _The Princess Bride_
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:25:34 -0500
From: Wingedwolf <wingedwolf@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Speedster Flavor
Go for the 24 Speed and watch the DM cringe.
Kenn
"David A. Fair" wrote:
> Okay, a lllloooonnngggg time ago there was a discussion of the worlds
> most popular speedster tricks. I have never played a speedster, always
> preferring the MA's & Mentalist/Mage types, but I am starting a new
> character in a new campaign and would like some advice: What are some
> really good speedster stunts to add for flavor?
>
> So far I have:
> variable effect minor transform (AE, Radius, Selective, cumulative) for
> changing long grass to cut grass, dirty room to clean room, etc.
> Autofire STR
> a couple levels in move by/through
> sleight of hand
> a high REC & low Regeneration (superfast healing)
>
> I feel like I need some more flavor, though. Any one have any other
> ideas? (If it helps, he gained his powers in an industrial accident; He
> was scrubbing the inside of a super collider when a superfight broke
> out near the control room and the unit got turned on by a stray bolt of
> energy. He was hit by those fast moving particles, which triggered and
> altered his latent mutancy.
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> David A. Fair
> Montgomery County Public Schools
> Office of Global Access Technology
> Elementary User Support Specialist
> David_Fair@fc.mcps.k12.md.us
> ---------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:17:15 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Killing and Expectations
>That's the one thing I didn't like about the Gilt Complex, from an early
>AC. They were set up so a character who was trying not to kill them
>still could (with that Takes BODY from Ego Attacks lim). Of course, the
>storyline had the G.C. going against a "character" who had bought darn
>near every combat power in the book, but it still doesn't seem fair.
The Gilt Complex struck me as way too much a case of a structure to allow
the GM to show how much more clever than you he was, when all it really
demonstrated is that you can make anyone look like a fool when you hold all
the cards. Even characters taking reasonable care would have killed all
these guys...hell, a collection of cops would have killed all these guys.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:46:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Re; speedster flavor
Curt Hicks writes:
>
>
> Somebody mentioned LS:Friction caused by High Speed....
>
> How would you actually buy an attack like that ?
>
I'd probably buy it as damage shield, with a limitation that it only affects
things that I'm holding or are holding on to me, and only when moving at
superspeed.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:56:53 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: slippery floors?
At 02:09 PM 1/20/99 -0600, gilberg@ou.edu wrote:
>
>>My god, someone has brought up slipperiness in Hero, and on the Champ-L
>>no less!
>>Run Away, Run Away....
>>
>>Next thing you know, they'll be a discussion on Lin...<urk>.
>
> What's wrong with that? There's no big Cuthulian monster that will
>show up for mentioning that.
>
> Linked, linked, linked.
>
> There, I said it, and noth....
Just remember:
Whatever you do, don't say, "Hastur." ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:56:06 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: slippery floors?
At 11:53 AM 1/20/99 -0800, John Desmarais wrote:
>---Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net> wrote:
>>
>> At 03:09 AM 1/21/99 +1000, Lockie wrote:
>> >idea for slippery floors, stop me if you've heard this one,
>suggested by one
>> >of my players. Martial throw, ae, continuous, uncontrolled. neh??
>> >
>>
>> We use Running (or gliding), UAO.
>
>I always favored "Supress, vs running, Area Effect."
If you add "Only vs Acceleration, Deceleration, and Turning" (-1/2 to
- -1, depending on your POV) I think you'd have something here. :-]
(If a character enters the space running at 10" per phase, he'll
continue to do so until he leaves the area or strikes an object.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:54:55 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: You know you're a good GM when... (Update)
At 11:02 AM 1/20/99 -0500, Lisa Hartjes wrote:
><<... you get an email from someone who went to your website, asking if one
>of
>the news items for your pbem game is true. :)
>
>Of course, that could say something completely different about the level of
>intelligence of the general population, but I'd just like to think I'm just
>that good. :)>>
>
>Turns out the person did a general search for X-Files conventions, and the
>(fictional) news article I have posted for my Sentinels pbem game came up.
>Guess that's what I get for using real world stuff in my game. :) I have
>added a disclaimer to the bottom of the page in question, letting people
>know that the contents are fictional. :)
The bottom? I've added a disclaimer to the *top* of my online Krav Maga
article, and I *still* get about one email per quarter from someone who
thinks that I know something firsthand about martial arts.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:13:20 PST
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes
On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 Chad Riley <chadriley01@sprynet.com> wrote:
> That's what I'm looking for, really. I have some odd ball master
villain that
>is capturing the half assed heroes and making them truly powerful (or
at least
>average when compared to others). He figures they'll be loyal because
they will
>finally have the power that they've always wanted.
>
Well, if that's the case, how about Unus the Untouchable? He's always
been one of my favorites. I understand he worked for Magneto, but my
only experience of him comes through his appearance in Heros for Hire.
In that issue, they make it clear that my favorite 2-bit hood with a
forcefield is sick 'n' tired of being beat up by the likes of the X-Men.
He'd jump at the chance to get a powerup. I actually did a write-up of
him once. He's got a 35/35 Force Field and a 4d6 baseball bat. Those
are his only powers. He's actually remarkably fun. He can't hurt you,
you have a hard time hurting him, now how do you stop him?
<sigh> Now I want to run a Champs campaign again, and I'm already
committed to 5 other regular gaming commitments. Oh, well.
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:15:06 -0500
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: superleap attacks (Dragon's "Bouncing" article)
Thank you, thank you, thank you Michael! You're check's in the mail, and
I'm going to sleep now. :-P
>I'm not sure which issue this is from, but years ago I photocopied it, cut
>it out and pasted it into a campaign rulesbook:
>
>"BOUNCING 5 pts for INT Roll / +1 per 2 pts
>This is the skill of finding structures in the inner city against which a
>character may bounce. Scenery such as flagpoles and telephone wires can be
>found with a successful use of this skill. An Acrobatics roll is still
>necessary to bounce against the item or to keep from falling from it. If
>the Acrobatics roll is made, the character may leap at five times the
>normal distance allowed for the character's strength; characters with
>Superleap add this extra distance to the end of their normal leaping
>distance. Bouncing is a favorite skill among street heroes."
>
>I believe it was the same Dragon article that included Combat Luck, Extra
>Life, Domination, Enragement, Knockout, Power Healing, Slipperiness,
>Temporal Fugue, Transmutation and Vertigo, though those may have been split
>up into a couple of separate articles. There was at least one more
>article, that offered things like Pliability, Throwing Master, and the Lack
>of Control Limitation.
>
>Damon
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:19:37 -0800 (PST)
From: miq@teleport.com
Subject: Re: slippery floors?
Bob Greenwade says:
> Just remember:
> Whatever you do, don't say, "Hastur." ;-]
"Hastur?"
- --
__
Miq Millman miq@teleport.com
Tualatin, OR
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:34:46 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Character: Denethor
Denethor II, Last Ruling Steward of Gondor
8 STR -2
10 DEX 0
12 CON 8
10 BODY 0
15 INT 5
18 EGO 16
18 PRE 8
12 COM 1
2 PD 0
2 ED 0
2 SPD 0
4 REC 0
24 END 0
20 STUN 0
Characteristics Cost: 36
1 WF,Swords
9 Bureaucratics 16-
9 High Society 16 -
5 Oratory 14-
5 Persuasion 14-
1 Lang: Westron,native,literacy
3 Lang: Adunaic,fluent w/accent,literacy
2 Lang: Rohirric,literacy
8 KS: Gondorian Nobility 17-
8 KS: Politics of Gondor 17-
5 KS: Gondorian History 14-
7 AK: Gondor 16-
11 AK: Minas Tirith 20-
2 11- Contact: Theoden
6 15- Contact: Boromir
6 15- Contact: Faramir
5 5-point Favor: Rohan
90 64,000 75-point followers
10 Head of State
15 Money,filthy rich
67 Package,"The Palantir",OAF,unbreakable
(67) Clairsentience,see future,see past,x250M Increased Range,
Visions Under the Limited Control of Sauron
Powers Cost: 275
Total Cost: 311
Base Points: 75
10 Age,60+
5 Distinctive Features,"Dunadan",easily concealable,minor
5 Watched,"Gondorian Nobility",less powerful,noncombat
influence,harsh,appear 8-
10 Watched,"Sauron",more powerful,noncombat influence,harsh,
appear 8-
20 Psychological Limitation,"Proud",very common,strong
15 Psychological Limitation,"Fear of the Future",common,strong
15 Psychological Limitation,"Under Sauron's Partial
Domination",common,strong
10 Public ID,"Ruling Steward of Gondor"
146 Bonfire Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 236
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 311
Denethor II, son of Ecthelion II was the last Ruling Steward of Gondor.
His family had ruled in the stead of the missing king for a thousand
years (since Third Age 2050) and had been the hereditary steward of
the Kings for hundreds of years before that. Denethor had two sons,
Boromir and Faramir, who were his greatest captains.
Although wise, Denethor was overshadowed in his youth by the great
captain Thorongil. In later life, he realized that Thorongil was Aragorn II
and began to fear that Aragorn and Gandalf plotted to supplant his power
over Gondor. Denethor opposed relinquishing the throne of Gondor
to a descendant of Isildur, as Gondor's kings were descendants of Anarion,
Isildur's brother.
In his pride and concern for Gondor, Denethor chose to look into the palantir
to try to determine the actions of Sauron, and so fell under the Dark Lord's
power, for Sauron had recovered the palantir of Minas Ithil centuries before.
Sauron twisted all that Denethor saw in the stone, thus slowly unhinging the
Steward's mind.
During the War of the Ring, Boromir was killed and Faramir struck with the
Black Breath, a terrible magical disease. This, combined with Denethor's
vision in the palantir of the fleet of Umbar sailing up the Anduin (which
it was,
but under Aragorn's control) caused the Steward to despair, and he tried
to cremate both Faramir and himself. Faramir was rescued, but Denethor
died in the flames, holding the palantir.
NOTES:
The 64,000 followers are Gondor's army. The population of Gondor at the
time is 7,700,000, according to ICE.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"But where is the ambiguity? Over there, in a box."
John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: 20 Jan 99 18:09:20 EST
From: Oscar <o-tibor@usa.net>
Subject: Unsubscribe
unsubscribe
- -I'll continue lurking with my new e-mail-
- -
Champions...Star Wars...AD&D...Battletech...Talisman
Great Games, So Little Time!
____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:24:51 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: You know you're a good GM when... (Update)
Bob Greenwade writes:
> The bottom? I've added a disclaimer to the *top* of my online Krav Maga
> article, and I *still* get about one email per quarter from someone who
> thinks that I know something firsthand about martial arts.
Funny you should mention that :-). There's a Krav Maga place in
Santa Monica that I've been considering checking out.
Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:59:32 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Batman's CAK (and long DC continuity rant)
Mitchel Santorineos writes:
> This is a point I will have to disagree on. Batman does not mind if a
> villain kills dies in his own plan, but he would never kill someone and
> would do what he could to avoid the death.
>
> In the Ras Al Ghul story, Ras' escape takes him through the field of fire.
> If he hadn't taken that route there would have been no problem.
Did you read the comic in question or are you basing this on my
comments? If the latter, I was trying to summarize briefly, but in
point of fact Ras' shuttle took through the field of fire, whereupon
Batman pressed the button that activated the weapon, in the process
mightily pissing off some of the other heroes. In fact, dredging my
memories this was the spark that resulted in Batman leaving the JLA
and starting the Outsiders.
Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:48:54 -0600
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Batman's CAK (and long DC continuity rant)
> In fact, dredging my memories this was the spark that resulted in Batman
leaving the JLAand starting the Outsiders.
This just answered your own comment. The writer need Batman out of the JLA
so they could write the Batman and the Outsiders comic. Don't confuse
corporate profit decisions with character concept.
16 years ago I asked George McDonald about a power that Ironman had used.
His reply was if you don't see it done 3 or more times consider it to be a
writers story crutch and not a true addition to the character.
One Batman story does not change 4 decades of history where Batman has
refused to kill someone.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:21:43 -0800
From: Scott Bennie <sbennie@dowco.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Celeborn
If I recall correctly, Gandalf was wearing it openly when he went to the Grey
Havens at the end of the book. There's been speculation that this Ring was one
of the reasons that Gandalf's magic spells were often fire based (his fireworks
in Hobbiton, for instance), and his possession of this ring was one of the
reasons that Saruman secretly hated him.
In any event Gandalf seems to have used it sparingly, but he definitely
possessed it in the trilogy.
Scott Bennie
James Jandebeur wrote:
> >Is that certain, or just speculated? Did he even have that ring in the
> >Hobbit? For some reason I thought he was given it in LotR, but it's been
> >such a long time that I'm not sure.
>
> Depends on what you mean by "speculated". There is no direct reference to
> him using it in the Hobbit or the Lord of the Rings, and I think the
> reference to him receiving it is in the Simarillion (sic?). However, the
> fireballs in the Hobbit are something that we never see anyone else doing,
> so it makes sense, anyway. Even then, it was little used, and didn't
> actually get them out of the danger in that circumstance.
>
> >And, I got the impression that he was loathe to use the ring anyway,
> >because it would attract the attention of Sauron. Wasn't he worried about
> >that in the Hobbit?
>
> I expect he was, but the circumstances were desperate, after all. In any
> event, it still didn't figure prominantly in the stories, whether it was his
> power or the power of the ring.
>
> JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:46:31 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Character: Celeborn
>If I recall correctly, Gandalf was wearing it openly when he went to the
Grey
>Havens at the end of the book. There's been speculation that this Ring was
one
>of the reasons that Gandalf's magic spells were often fire based (his
fireworks
>in Hobbiton, for instance), and his possession of this ring was one of the
>reasons that Saruman secretly hated him.
Let's not go too much further than this, lest it go too far off topic...
My comment was that there was no direct reference to him USING the ring, not
to him having or not having it. It didn't say that the fireworks were
created by the ring, nor that he used it to fry some orcs, or that him
hurling fire upon the wolves was because of it. It did mention he had it,
yes. And, yes, I am splitting hairs, but I was doing so in the previous post
as well so why break a winning streak? :)
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:35:15 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: superleap attacks (Dragon's "Bouncing" article)
At 05:15 PM 1/20/1999 -0500, Ronald A. Miller wrote:
>Thank you, thank you, thank you Michael! You're check's in the mail, and
>I'm going to sleep now. :-P
As long as the check doesn't -- heh -- bounce. ;)
Hey, I've been in that "I can't sleep until I find this!" state many times.
Couldn't let a fellow gamer suffer if I could provide relief.
On which note: I never did locate "Sunshine Superman", "Mellow Yellow" and
the others, but it's not keeping me up nights...any more. :)
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:43:32 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Batman's CAK (and long DC continuity rant)
> Did you read the comic in question or are you basing this on my
>comments? If the latter, I was trying to summarize briefly, but in
>point of fact Ras' shuttle took through the field of fire, whereupon
>Batman pressed the button that activated the weapon, in the process
>mightily pissing off some of the other heroes.
Well, that's likely partly because the writers decided to do something with
the character that is not supported by past or future behavior. Batman does
not kill: he doesn't believe he has that right, and he believes in saving
lives, not in taking them. While this has not always been true, it is the
character as I prefer to see him, the one light in his otherwise dark
manner.
I am so disappointed that the only movie to date that has maintained this is
the one where George Clooney played him...
Now, I didn't read the story in question: was that the only way to stop Ras?
Was Ras going to be able to immediately cause death and mayhem if not
stopped? If so, Batman may very well have been able to overcome his Code vs.
Killing in favor of his Protective of Innocents. Say, his Code is 10 points:
Common, Moderate, and his Protective is 20: Common, Total.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:25:09 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: slippery floors?
>> What's wrong with that? There's no big Cuthulian monster that will
>>show up for mentioning that.
>>
>> Linked, linked, linked.
>>
>> There, I said it, and noth....
>
>
>GM rolls 1d100 for sanity loss for everyone on the list that witnesses Mr.
>Gilberg's untimely, horrifying end...
Or, if you make your SAN roll only D100-10
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:28:55 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re:SAN check! (was slippery floors?)
>> GM rolls 1d100 for sanity loss for everyone on the list that witnesses Mr.
>> Gilberg's untimely, horrifying end...
>
>When the evil witch Ursla monstered out into a half-human half-octopus in
>"Little Mermaid" did anyone else have the reaction I did?
>Said reaction being, of course: SAN CHECK!
Same thing with Ash in Evil Dead 2... why is he so bold in the Army of
Darkness? HE HAS NO SAN LEFT TO LOSE
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:32:50 -0500
From: "Ronald A. Miller" <rabmiller@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: superleap attacks (Dragon's "Bouncing" article)
>As long as the check doesn't -- heh -- bounce. ;)
>
Stop *jumping* to conclusions... heh (oh now I've made myself ill)
>Hey, I've been in that "I can't sleep until I find this!" state many times.
> Couldn't let a fellow gamer suffer if I could provide relief.
>
>On which note: I never did locate "Sunshine Superman", "Mellow Yellow" and
>the others, but it's not keeping me up nights...any more. :)
That would be Donovan, you hipster you.
>
>Damon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:12:30 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Batman's CAK (and long DC continuity rant)
>16 years ago I asked George McDonald about a power that Ironman had used.
>His reply was if you don't see it done 3 or more times consider it to be a
>writers story crutch and not a true addition to the character.
As an Admin on an X-Men based MUX, I try to emphasize this point to people;
writers are notorious for using the one-off power that you never see before
or after, especially with characters with a fairly broad portfolio or master
villain types. Magneto is a notorious example of this; he's been shown
occasionally exhibiting abilities that if he'd actually had them at other
points would have ended the plot right quick.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:40:41 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: Loser Heroes
>From: dwcheung@mindspring.com (David W Cheung)
>> Of course, the whole Squadron Supreme
>> was a big characiture of JLA, down to the
>> villain: Master Menace. The parallels are
>> both blatant and obvious.
They were meant to be blatant because the Squadron started out as a
cross-company gag in the late 60's--one month, the Avengers fought the
Squadron, while the JLA fought a group of characters based on the
Scarlet Witch (The silver Sorceress), Quicksiler (I wish I remembered),
Ant Man (Blue Jay) and Thor (Wajinda). Both groups of characters were
revived in the 80's--the Squardon in their own miniseries and the
Avengers knock-offs in the Keith Giffen JLA.....
"A trial without witnesses is like the Euro, a monetary system without
the benefits of paper money or coin--what's the fun of that?"
- --Harry Shearer
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:52:15 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: superleap attacks (Dragon's "Bouncing" article)
At 08:32 PM 1/20/1999 -0500, Ronald A. Miller wrote:
>>On which note: I never did locate "Sunshine Superman", "Mellow Yellow" and
>>the others, but it's not keeping me up nights...any more. :)
>
>That would be Donovan, you hipster you.
Um, no. You must have missed the earlier thread. The two names above (and
some others, which may or may not have involved Donovan song titles) were
applied to superhero characters who'd gained drug-based powers. I have
read these writeups but could not remember where. They are not from Bad
Medicine for Dr. Drugs, the Wild Cards series or either of the GURPS Wild
Cards books. They might be from an old article in Pyramid or some other
gaming magazine. They might be in a supplement for almost any superhero
based RPG. No one on the list was able to tell me where I'd seen them, and
I eventually gave up trying to find out.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 99 22:27:23 -0400
From: John P Weatherman <asahoshi@nr.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Character: Celeborn
Scott Nolan nolan@erols.com 1/20/99 4:51 PM
>At 01:41 PM 1/20/99 -0600, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>>On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, James Jandebeur wrote:
>>
>>> However, that wasn't because of his own powers, that was because he had the
>>> Ring of Fire, one of the three Rings of Power given to the elves.
I wouldn't be so sure. On Caradhras Gandolf kindles fire and declairs:
"If there are any to see, then I at least am revealed to them...I have
written
Gandolf is Here in signs that all can read from Rivendell to Anduin."
Gandolf's capacity with fire magic is well documented and, from the
foregoing,
seems to be independent of Narya. While Narya no doubt enhanced his
natural
abilities, fire magic was his independent of the ring whose power he was
lothe to use anyway.
>>And, I got the impression that he was loathe to use the ring anyway,
>>because it would attract the attention of Sauron. Wasn't he worried about
>>that in the Hobbit?
>
>Galadriel was worried about using Nenya, the Ring of Water, but Gandalf
>seems to have been willing to use Narya in an emergency. Note one of the
>first things he says to the Balrog: "I am the Keeper of the Secret Fire".
The actual quote is:
"I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor."
I have always read the Secret Fire to be a referance to the Flame
Imperishable
which Anu hid in the beginning after the fashioning of the Ainur. The
Flame
of Anor is the Light of the Sun or the last light of the Valor in Middle
Earth. I view this quote to be Gandolf declairing his own nature ("I am
a
servant of Eru, of the Great Harmony you (the balrog) fled and the
wielder
of the Valar's authority in Middle Earth"). This seems more reasonable
to me
than his revealing to the Enemy where one of the Free Peoples greatest
treasures was hidden. Further it gives nothing away. The Enemy knows
where
Gandolf is after Caradhras and is fully aware of what the Istarii are and
what they represent (hense his desire to corrupt them as He was corrupted
by the Great Enemy).
All IMHO, of course...
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #152
*****************************
Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 03:13 PM