Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 166

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 1999 2:54 AM 
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #166 
 
 
champ-l-digest       Thursday, January 28 1999       Volume 01 : Number 166 
 
 
 
In this issue: 
 
    Re: Character: Frodo Baggins 
    Re: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker 
    Re: How much damage should guns do. 
    Re: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker 
    Re: No Conscious Control 
    Re: Multipower Questions 
    Re: [Re: Levels and Limitations (Oh, Mr. Long!)] 
    Re: My thought on guns after your comments 
    OIHID and Focus 
    Re: Character: Frodo Baggins 
    Re: No Conscious Control 
    Re: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker 
    Re: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker 
    Re: My thought on guns after your comments 
    Re: OIHID and Focus 
    Re: Multipower Questions 
    Re: OIHID and Focus 
    Re: My thought on guns after your comments 
    Re: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker 
    Re: No Conscious Control 
    RE: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker 
    Re: Character: Frodo Baggins 
    Char: Titanic Man 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:39:37 -0500 
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us> 
Subject: Re: Character: Frodo Baggins 
 
At 12:26 PM 1/27/99 -0800, Filksinger wrote: 
 
> 
>We know that many people with power strongly desired the Ring, even though 
>they hadn't seen it since Sauron last had it; Saruman(sp?), for example. We 
>know that at least one person who had no power but who traveled with Frodo 
>(Boromir) believed the Ring would give him power. However, we have no 
>evidence either way whether or not the Ring would actually give power to 
>_anyone_ except Sauron. 
> 
 
This is an interesting debate, and I can see the merit on both sides.  
 
However, I'm inclined to believe that the Ring can offer real power. In 
fact I'd say that there _is_ evidence that the Ring provides power to those 
who are not magically inclined - it makes them invisible! It also 
"streches" lives, of course, and it altered Frodo's perceptions of the 
Nazgul. Granted, these are all minor side effects compared to Sauron's 
purpose for the thing, but this does suggest that the Ring can do something 
for its bearer regardless of their innate mystical talents. 
 
I suspect there are more complicated arguments one could make based in 
analyzing the general structure of magic and the supernatural in Middle 
Earth, but it's been too long since I read Tolkien to attempt them. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 27 Jan 1999 17:59:02 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker 
 
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"GH" == Guy Hoyle <ghoyle1@airmail.net> writes: 
 
GH> If anybody has any spare ideas they want to fling my way, I'd love to see 
GH> what you can come up with, no matter how vague; I just need something to 
GH> stimulate my imagination before 1/30, which is when we begin (yoiks!) 
 
Get your hands on a copy of "The New Hackers Dictionary" or "The Jargon 
File".  They are the same thing, except the former is the book version of 
the latter printed by MIT Press.  There is a section within entitled 
something like, "Understanding Your Hacker". 
 
The Jargon File is available out there on the web somewhere, but I couldn't  
tell you off-hand where. 
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- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete. 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \  
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 27 Jan 1999 16:12:50 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: How much damage should guns do. 
 
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"F" == Filksinger  <filkhero@usa.net> writes: 
 
F> Additionally, a .223 is much longer than a .22 round. This is 
F> particularly important when you realize that the .223 tumbles upon 
F> impact, carving a twisted channel through its target. 
 
Not any more.  That particular round has been deprecated in favor of 
standard 5.56mm NATO ball, which does not tumble, for the M-16A2. 
 
FWIW, the tumbling was caused by the bullet having an off-axis center of 
gravity.  It needed a bizarre barrel twist in order to fire straight.  The 
combination made it viscious in combat, but the range and accuracy suffered  
and it cost more to produce. 
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- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ returned to its special container and 
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ kept under refrigeration. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:31:35 PST 
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com> 
Subject: Re: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker 
 
> 
>From: Guy Hoyle <ghoyle1@airmail.net> 
> 
> 
><snip> 
>>I'm trying to create a computer hack&crack specialist, and I've done  
OK in 
>>that bdepartment.  However, I haven't really got a feel for this  
character 
>>yet.  I want to give him some complementary and/or contrasting  
character 
>>traits.  I have no clue about his background or personality. 
> 
> 
 
This reminds me of the basic concept behind an old Feng Shui character  
of mine.  He was a Big Bruiser who sank all of his discretionary skill  
bonuses into Info/Computer Programming.  Gave him a pretty good skill  
level, too.  A 13 (IIRC), on a scale where 10 is above average, and 15  
is action-movie hero level.   
 
Stand the "geeky computer nerd" stereotype on it's head.  Make him big,  
ugly, and brutish.  Make him appear to be dull-witted, even though he  
isn't.  Give him a penchant for wearing army-surplus camouflage gear,  
and a taste for bad cigars.  Make him strong enough to rearrange all of  
the heavy office equipment by hand.  "Where do you want this copier,  
ma'am?"  Make him so big that he has to hunch over to see the computer  
screen, even with his chair set at it's lowest height setting.  Don't  
give him any appreciable combat skills, mind you, just make him look  
like he should have some.   
 
Just a thought.  Not very original, but lots o' fun. 
 
Jesse Thomas 
 
haerandir@hotmail.com 
 
______________________________________________________ 
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:21:43 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: No Conscious Control 
 
At 03:57 PM 1/27/99 +0900, Michael House wrote: 
>I got into a discussion with someone a while back about No Conscious 
>Control. To make a long story short, he said that he played it in such a  
>way that powers with this limitation went off at inopportune times for 
>the character, as well as times when it be useful to the character, 
>because he said it wasn't a limitation otherwise. An example he gave 
>was an EB bought this way might go off while the character was 
>asleep, or something similar. 
> 
>I read and re-read the description of the limitation (in HSR), and couldn't 
>find anything that supported this interpretation. I've never used it this 
>way, and I can't remember ever playing with anyone who did, either. 
 
   The way I read it contradicts the other person's interpretation, at 
least as you explained it above: 
   "The Power only turns on when the GM chooses -- usually when it furthers 
the adventure." 
   In other words, the GM doesn't just activate the character's NCC Energy 
Blast in the middle of the night just to cause him trouble with the 
landlord or compromise his Secret Identity or something like that.  It 
should have to further the story. 
   It's for that reason that the Limitation is generally applied to 
mentalist Powers like Clairsentience or Telepathy. 
   At the same time, though, it doesn't mean that it will *never* happen at 
an inconvenient time, either.  It's a classic "bit" for a psychic hero with 
a Secret ID to suddenly get a "flash" in the middle of dinner at a fancy 
restaurant, or similar events to happen.  This has a dual function, 
however, of furthering the plot at hand *and* making the character work for 
that Disadvantage. 
   (I'd want to wonder what a character wants with an Energy Blast, NCC 
anyway.) 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:47:29 PST 
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com> 
Subject: Re: Multipower Questions 
 
On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, gilberg@ou.edu wrote 
>        Er, no.  We were just discussing this.  The reserve gets the  
common 
>limitations of each slot, in this case, 4 charges per slot.  While a  
good 
>potential house rule, that construction was quite valid by the book. 
> 
> 
>                                        -Tim Gilberg 
 
I've been staying out of this thread so far, but I think I've finally  
figured out why I'm so uncomfortable with this interpretation.  The  
rules state, "If a Limitation is applied to the whole Multipower, then  
the Limitation reduces the cost of the point reserve and the slots."  I  
understand your interpretation of the rules, that if each slot has 4  
charges then the whole Multipower has the Limitation "4 Charges".   
However, I think you're looking at it backwards.  If each slot has 4  
charges, and the Multipower has 5 slots, then the Multipower as a whole  
has 20 charges.  You're giving the reserve, the most expensive part of  
the multipower, the value of a -1 limitation, despite the fact that it  
effectively has a +1/4 advantage!   
 
I think that the criterion of how to apply the 4 charges Limitation is  
found in the phrase "If a Limitation is applied to the *WHOLE*  
Multipower..."  A slot with the Charges Limitation is the only thing  
limited by that Limitation.  Even if every slot in the multipower has  
the same # of charges, each of those sets of charges applies only to the  
individual slots with which they are associated.  Therefore, you cannot  
take the limitation on the reserve.  If the entire Multipower, meaning  
each and every slot, is drawing from the same pool of charges, then you  
can put the Limitation on the Reserve and all of the slots.  This means,  
if you want to get the -1 Limitation on the Reserve, you can only use  
the Multipower 4 times a day.  I believe Mr. West is correct, as was the  
person a couple of days ago who used the "specialty arrow" metaphor.   
 
I agree that the opposing interpretation is, semantically, at least as  
valid as mine, but I find that I can't believe that it is what was  
intended by the author.  After all, "a Limitation that isn't a  
limitation isn't worth any points."   
 
Jesse Thomas 
 
haerandir@hotmail.com 
 
______________________________________________________ 
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 27 Jan 99 14:32:27 MST 
From: ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net> 
Subject: Re: [Re: Levels and Limitations (Oh, Mr. Long!)] 
 
bob.greenwade wrote: 
>    From here, I think we can take a look at how a 2 point CSL actaually 
> works, specifically in relation to weapons.   
>    "Any single attack" is a little broader IMV than "one specific weapon." 
> If a character in a police game gets +1 OCV with his Browning 9mm, then 
> that should only cost 2 points.  For +1 OCV with pistols in general, after 
> all, he'd spend 3 points.  But if he loses his usual Browning 9mm and picks 
> up another, then he still can use the +1 OCV. 
 
Now, he's probably not /paying/ for the weapon in a game like that.  He 
could pick up any number of guns and use them and could chose to carry 
something other than a Browning 9mm - he could also have a snub-nosed 
backup in an ankle holster, and a riot gun in the car, for instance. 
 
That is a /very/ different situation from a Super Hero who takes a 2pt 
level with the blaster that he made in his super-lab.   
 
With the former it's reasonable to apply the 2pt level to a specific 
make and model of gun, since there's such a bewildering variety of 
guns out there that the character might find himself using.  In the  
latter case, the weapon is pretty clearly unique... 
 
With the former, carrying a Browning 9mm is just a matter of choice, in 
the latter, the character paid points for it. 
 
Now, if our Blaster-wielding superhero has his personal, unique, blaster 
taken away, he's not going to apply his two point skill levels (that he 
has because he's trained with it intensively) to anything else.  And,  
anyone else (friend or foe) using the blaster won't get them either. 
OTOH, if he build some 5pt OCV levels into the blaster (linked to the 
blaster's EB), the cost still comes out to exactly 2pts for each level - 
he's paying the same cost - the only difference being the relatively 
nuetral effect of the blaster being a universal focus: if someone steals 
the blaster, or he lets a friend use it, they get the levels. 
 
Now, if he were able to put 2pt levels in the OAF blaster, the effect 
would be identical, but the cost would only be 1pt each. 
 
 
>    Now suppose this same cop gets a gyroscopic stabilizer for his Browning, 
> and attaches it.  (Don't worry about realism for this one, folks.  I'm just 
> going on flights of fancy to illustrate a point.)  The stabilizer gives the 
> gun a +2 OCV, in addition to his intrinsic +1.  But he can't use that +2 
> OCV with any other Browning 9mm, because it's built into his one gun.  By 
> the same token, anyone who picks up the modified Browning (even without WF: 
> Small Arms) gets that +2 when they use it. 
 
Well, if the gyro is plain tech for the game, then he's not paying for 
it, so who cares if it's 2 or 5pt levels? 
 
But say he does pay for it.  A gyro makes a weapon more stable, but it's 
heavy, so I'm assuming it's getting say, OAF, and STR min.  Say he wants 
it to add 5 to STR min of his weapon: 10 Apts.  That's +2 5pt levels, or 
+5 2pt levels... 
 
And then there's the real cost.   
 
+2 5ptLevels, OAF, linked, STR min = 10/3.5= 3 Rpts. 
+5 2ptLevels, OAF, STRmin = 10/3 = 3 Rpts... 
 
Simply bying a +2 OCV with the weapon would be 4pts.  So, either way, 
the relative disadvantage of having the weapon with the gyroscope taken 
away, vs being able to scrounge a second Browning is reflected... the 
question is, does that disadvantage entitle the character to save a point, 
or save a point and get an additional +3 OCV... 
 
>    Okay, fine; that's good for standard-issue weapons.  But what about 
> unique weapons, such as those found in most superhero and many fantasy 
> campaigns? 
>    The real concern, I think, is over the character like the one above, who 
> wants to have a weapon in Personal Focus that gives him Combat Skill 
> Levels.  In this case, it would appear to be an identical case whether OAF 
> is applied to the CSLs or not: the weapon can be taken away but not used 
> against the character, so with or without the Limitation the CSLs can't be 
> used against him. 
>    Mostly, the problem will lie in the "little things."  For one thing, I'm 
> prone to assigning an Active Point penalty for Weaponsmith, and these 
> built-in CSLs can make a difference in that.  The same effect can be seen 
> when dealing with Requires a Skill Roll -- those CSLs might count for the 
> character in OCV, but against him for that RSR. 
 
Actually, that sounds pretty good.  5pt levels would stack up pretty 
quickly (-1 to RSR per 2).  2pt levels would be a piece of cake (-1  
per 5).  The impact levels have on combat really cries out for the  
higher active cost, even though, with limitations the final cost  
savings may be small. 
 
> really, does a PC's ability to speak fluent Japanese save the day?  Are 
> those 3 or 4 points worth the same as the above-described inconvenience, 
> which would provide a character with a savings of about the same amount? 
 
Sure, when you're talking about a level or two the point savings aren't 
worth wrangling about... but, when you're talking investing 5 or 10  
points into something, the difference becomes extreme...   
 
So, I'd rather nip the abuse in the bud, and let the reasonable player 
save 1 or 2 points instead of 3 or 4. 
 
____________________________________________________________________ 
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:23:44 -0800 
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@usa.net> 
Subject: Re: My thought on guns after your comments 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
 
 
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>"F" == Filksinger  <filkhero@usa.net> writes: 
> 
>F> Not bad, but I wouldn't use it with _all_ rifles. Only the medium and 
>F> high powered ones using full-metal jacket ammo. 
> 
>It also does not work.  5.56mm NATO *ignores* light body armor (DEF 3-6) 
>entirely, yet bounces off of light vehicle armor (DEF 12-16).  See my 
>little description of Piercing that I just posted. 
 
 
Which also does not work. Using that method, the body armor may be ignored, 
but the vehicle armor is penetrated frequently. In fact, given a DEF of 12, 
your average shot would go through, if you used even 4 Pts. Piercing. 
 
Filksinger 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:12:47 -0600 
From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net> 
Subject: OIHID and Focus 
 
I know this was discussed not to long ago, but can you take OIHID and 
Focus? My thought is that the Limit for the focus should be halved. 
 
This to me represents a power that can be taken away while in hero ID 
but can revert if they change back and forth. Am I off base here? 
 
Tim Statler 
Taking cover behind the revetments 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:40:16 EST 
From: ErolB1@aol.com 
Subject: Re: Character: Frodo Baggins 
 
In a message dated 99-01-27 11:45:03 EST, nolan@erols.com writes: 
 
> At 10:43 AM 1/27/99 -0500, you wrote: 
>  >>OBHero: IIRC, hobbits/halflings get a bonus with ranged combat/missile 
>  >>weapons. I don't remember any reference to this with Frodo.  
>  > 
>  >I know hobbits were very good with missile weapons (including thrown 
>  >stones), but that may just have been from their high DEX. 
>   
>  The "bonus with missiles" comes from Dungeons and Dragons.   
>  There is no reference to it in any of Tolkien's writings, I believe.  
 
Actually there is: In _The Hobbit_, it's mentioned how "Bilbo was a pretty 
fair shot with a stone, and it did not take him long to find a nice smooth 
egg-shaped one that fitted his hand cosily. As a boy he used to practise 
throwing stones at things, until rabbits and squirrels, and even birds, got 
out of his way as quick as lightining if they saw him stoop; and even grownup 
he had still spent a deal of his time at quoits, dart-throwing, shooting at 
the wand, bowls, ninepins and other quiet games of the aiming and throwing 
sort..." (Chapter 8 "Flies and Spiders") 
 
And in _Lord of the Rings_ in the Prologue (part 1: "Concerning Hobbits") it's 
explained that it isn't just Bilbo: "They shot well with the bow, for they 
were keen-eyed and sure at the mark. Not only with bows and arrows. If any 
Hobbit stooped for a stone, it was well to get quickly under cover, as all 
trespassing beasts knew very well." 
 
Erol K. Bayburt 
Evil Genius for a Better Tomorrow 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:21:23 -0500 (EST) 
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja) 
Subject: Re: No Conscious Control 
 
>I got into a discussion with someone a while 
> back about No Conscious Control. To make a 
> long story short, he said that he played it in 
> such a way that powers with this limitation 
> went off at inopportune times for the 
> character, as well as times when it be useful 
> to the character, because he said it wasn't a 
> limitation otherwise. An example he gave was 
> an EB bought this way might go off while the 
> character was asleep, or something similar.  
 
Actually, I have always read No Concious Control as being a power that 
the player has NO say over--you, the player, are pretty much putting 
that power in the hands of the GM and allowing him to dictate when and 
where that power is used, what the results are, and everything else--a 
pretty scary limitation, and the reason for the  high benefit for taking 
it (-2!). 
 
NCC is not for everyone--but it's great to simulate 'wild psychic talent 
types like clairvoyant who has visions out of nowhere..... 
 
"A trial without witnesses is like the Euro, a monetary system without 
the benefits of paper money or coin--what's the fun of that?" 
- --Harry Shearer 
____________________________________ 
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is 
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley 
_______________________________ 
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP 
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE 
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:12:27 -0600 
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net> 
Subject: Re: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker 
 
At 05:59 PM 1/27/99 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote: 
>Get your hands on a copy of "The New Hackers Dictionary" or "The Jargon 
>File".  They are the same thing, except the former is the book version of 
>the latter printed by MIT Press.  There is a section within entitled 
>something like, "Understanding Your Hacker". 
> 
>The Jargon File is available out there on the web somewhere, but I couldn't  
>tell you off-hand where. 
 
It's available on the web in a *lot* of places. Try: 
 
        http://www.watch-tower.com/Jargon/jargon_toc.html 
 
to begin with. 
 
- -- 
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to  
do nothing." -- attributed to Edmund Burke (1729-1797) 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:56:17 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker 
 
At 01:53 PM 1/27/99 -0600, Guy Hoyle wrote: 
>I'm designing a character for a science fiction game (our "Mission: 
>Impossible" campaign), and have run into some stumbling blocks.  The 
>setting is the 24th century; there are human colonies on Mars and the Moon, 
>and recently star travel has become possible; there are other life forms on 
>the planets of Alpha centauri and elsewhere.  So far, all the planets get 
>along OK. 
> 
>I'm trying to create a computer hack&crack specialist, and I've done OK in 
>that bdepartment.  However, I haven't really got a feel for this character 
>yet.  I want to give him some complementary and/or contrasting character 
>traits.  I have no clue about his background or personality. 
> 
>If anybody has any spare ideas they want to fling my way, I'd love to see 
>what you can come up with, no matter how vague; I just need something to 
>stimulate my imagination before 1/30, which is when we begin (yoiks!) 
 
   Here are a few things to ponder that I can come up with offhand: 
   - Ethnic background (and make it tighter than just "race") 
   - Financial background 
   - Religious background 
   - Setting where he first got interested in his trade 
   - Favorite music 
   - Favorite food 
   - Tastes in literature, TV, etc. 
   - Best friend in high school 
   - Father's occupation 
   - Any siblings? 
   - What kind of sense of humor does he have? 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 27 Jan 1999 21:26:48 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: My thought on guns after your comments 
 
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"F" == Filksinger  <filksinger@usa.net> writes: 
 
F> Which also does not work. Using that method, the body armor may be ignored, 
F> but the vehicle armor is penetrated frequently. In fact, given a DEF of 12, 
F> your average shot would go through, if you used even 4 Pts. Piercing. 
 
Lessee... a 2D6 RKA averages 7 Body.  12 DEF less 4 points of Piercing is 
8.  Spang! 
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- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds. 
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:28:17 -0600 
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net> 
Subject: Re: OIHID and Focus 
 
At 07:12 PM 1/27/99 -0600, Tim Statler wrote: 
>I know this was discussed not to long ago, but can you take OIHID and 
>Focus? My thought is that the Limit for the focus should be halved. 
 
Shake the magic 8-ball ... "Answer unclear". 
 
More precisely, "Yes, you can, if your GM doesn't choke on it." Most GMs on 
this list, I believe, WILL choke on it, ergo you couldn't in their games. 
 
I have allowed the construction in a very few cases -- namely, when a given 
power is in a focus, and the FOCUS is only accessible in the first place "in 
hero ID" ... and is not synonymous with the hero ID (as would be the case 
with Iron Man). 
 
But I would reiterate, most GMs won't allow this at all -- either the Focus 
or the "OHID" will be magicked away as "special effects" of the other. I 
just happen to be something of a softie. 
 
- -- 
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to  
do nothing." -- attributed to Edmund Burke (1729-1797) 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 27 Jan 1999 21:30:54 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Multipower Questions 
 
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"JT" == Jesse Thomas <haerandir@hotmail.com> writes: 
 
JT> However, I think you're looking at it backwards.  If each slot has 4  
JT> charges, and the Multipower has 5 slots, then the Multipower as a whole  
JT> has 20 charges.  You're giving the reserve, the most expensive part of  
JT> the multipower, the value of a -1 limitation, despite the fact that it  
JT> effectively has a +1/4 advantage! 
 
By that logic, a Multipower with 5 slots, each having x2 END, would require 
the Reduced END *advantage* on the reserve. 
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- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to 
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ Earth, presumably from outer space. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:35:00 -0800 
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> 
Subject: Re: OIHID and Focus 
 
From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net> 
 
 
>I know this was discussed not to long ago, but can you take OIHID and 
>Focus? My thought is that the Limit for the focus should be halved. 
> 
>This to me represents a power that can be taken away while in hero ID 
>but can revert if they change back and forth. Am I off base here? 
 
 
Let us assume that a character in power armor is automatically in Hero ID, 
just because he is in the armor. After all, if someone is wearing Iron Man's 
armor, he _is_ Iron Man. Stark couldn't wear the Iron Man armor and go 
around saying, "No, I'm not Iron Man, I'm Tony Stark. I just happened to 
have this suit on hand." 
 
Now, consider two characters. One has bought his armor OIHID, the other as a 
OIF. The character with OIHID cannot have the armor taken away under normal 
circumstances, but he gets the limitations of OIHID. The character with OIF 
_can_ have the armor taken away, _and_ he gets the limitations of OIHID. 
 
The rules indicate that you shouldn't take the Focus Limitation and OIHID on 
the same power. For the most part this is correct. However, where it is 
clearly a case where the character has a Focus that, by its very nature, 
automatically makes the character who uses it in "Hero ID", a Limitation is 
warranted. Because of the overlap between the Focus Limitation and OIHID, I 
believe that in those circumstances OIHID should be allowed, but reduced to 
a -1/4 Limitation. 
 
Filksinger 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:10:19 -0800 
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> 
Subject: Re: My thought on guns after your comments 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
 
 
 
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>"F" == Filksinger  <filksinger@usa.net> writes: 
> 
>F> Which also does not work. Using that method, the body armor may be 
ignored, 
>F> but the vehicle armor is penetrated frequently. In fact, given a DEF of 
12, 
>F> your average shot would go through, if you used even 4 Pts. Piercing. 
> 
>Lessee... a 2D6 RKA averages 7 Body.  12 DEF less 4 points of Piercing is 
>8.  Spang! 
 
 
Sorry. I spaced for a moment, and was considering the 2 1/2 D6 attack that 
was discussed above. Of course, that was neither official nor the 5.56 NATO. 
Oops. 
 
A friend of mine had an interesting solution to this sort of problem in his 
own, personally designed game system. He gave all armor the equivalent of 
DEF, _and_ levels of Resistance. He also gave all weapons damage _and_ 
Penetration. 
 
If a weapon's Penetration was higher than the target's Resistance, the 
target's armor was weakened. If the armor were superior, it would go up, 
within limits (never more than doubled, IIRC). This resulted in armor and 
weapons that could be particularly effective or ineffective against superior 
or inferior equipment, without changing the damage. 
 
For example, a fist might have a Penetration of 0, a martial strike a 
Penetration of 1, a knife a Penetration of 2, and an armor-piercing 
Cold-Steel Tanto a 5. Normal flesh backed by a high (human) PD might have a 
Resistance of 0, a leather jacket or padded armor a resistance of 1, and a 
car door a Resistance of 4, while all have the same DEF and DC. In the above 
example, the weapons would all do the same damage, but the Tanto could go 
through the car door, the knife through the leather, and the fist would be 
resisted effectively even by bare skin. 
 
Filksinger 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:15:31 -0500 (EST) 
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja) 
Subject: Re: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker 
 
>I'm trying to create a computer hack&crack 
> specialist, and I've done OK in that 
> bdepartment. However, I haven't really got a 
> feel for this character yet. I want to give him 
> some complementary and/or contrasting 
> character traits. I have no clue about his 
> background or personality.  
 
I'd work him totally against type--instead of being a techno/trance 
loving anarchist, I'd make him a very cultured individual whose tastes 
run to opera and the ballet (which would lead to cool virus 
names--imagine unleashing the 'Turandot'' or 'Iolanthe' virus on an 
enemy).  Instead of making him on the cutting edge of technology and pop 
culture, I'd make him a throwback--a 'swing kid,' let's say, who prides 
himself on getting into the most secure installations in the world with 
his antique Mac set-up......  
 
"A trial without witnesses is like the Euro, a monetary system without 
the benefits of paper money or coin--what's the fun of that?" 
- --Harry Shearer 
____________________________________ 
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is 
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley 
_______________________________ 
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP 
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE 
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:31:41 +0900 
From: Michael House <macross@gol.com> 
Subject: Re: No Conscious Control 
 
At 16:21 -0500 1999.01.27, Stainless Steel Rat wrote: 
 
> I think the GM was being unfair.  No Conscious Control is a power 
> limitation, not a character disadvantage.  The GM in question was treating 
> it as a disadvantage. 
 
Thanks. My own thinking runs along much the same lines. A power 
bought with limitations will by definition be less useful than the same 
power bought without limitations, but in both cases, the player is 
spending points to buy abilities for the character, not taking points 
as a disadvantage. 
 
I believe that if you spend points, you should get the benefit of those 
points. I don't pretend to know what the game's designers had in mind, 
though, nor do I pretend to know better than they how the game 
should work (if I did, I'd make my own game. 8~}) Which is why I've 
asked for an official ruling, if any of the Hero Games people are here 
and interested. 
 
Be Seeing You... 
- --Michael House, macross@gol.com, www.gainax.co.jp 
GAINAX Co., Ltd. (Opinions expressed are my own unless otherwise specified) 
"Perfection is achieved only by institutions on the point of collapse." 
- --C. Northcote Parkinson 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:18:15 -0500 
From: "Randy Buttram" <dasbutz@hotmail.com> 
Subject: RE: Character ideas needed: sci-fi hacker 
 
On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote: 
 
On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Guy Hoyle wrote: 
 
>> I'm designing a character for a science fiction game (our "Mission: 
>> Impossible" campaign), and have run into some stumbling blocks. 
>> 
>> I'm trying to create a computer hack&crack specialist, and I've done OK 
in 
>> that bdepartment.  However, I haven't really got a feel for this 
character 
>> yet.  I want to give him some complementary and/or contrasting character 
>> traits.  I have no clue about his background or personality. 
 
>Well, let me start off with a request: /please/ don't make him a 
>stereotypical geek.  It's overdone.  But you knew that, I just wanted to 
>get it off of my chest. 
 
>Here's an idea: 
 
>The Rebel: he got into hacking & cracking because he likes to break the 
>rules, and that shows up in the rest of his life, too. Expect him to 
>challenge rules and authority whenever possible.  Play him as the hacker 
>equivalent of the classic 'loose cannon' characters from cop films. 
>Probably wears a leather jacket and drives the 24th century equivalent of 
>a Harley. 
 
Rent "Rebel Without a Clue" and "Harley Davison and the Marlboro Man" to get 
a feel for this kind of character. 
 
My 2 points worth... 
 
Randy Buttram 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 02:09:27 -0500 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
Subject: Re: Character: Frodo Baggins 
 
At 07:40 PM 1/27/99 -0500, ErolB1@aol.com wrote: 
>>  The "bonus with missiles" comes from Dungeons and Dragons.   
>>  There is no reference to it in any of Tolkien's writings, I believe.  
> 
>Actually there is: In _The Hobbit_, it's mentioned how "Bilbo was a pretty 
>fair shot with a stone, and it did not take him long to find a nice smooth 
>egg-shaped one that fitted his hand cosily. As a boy he used to practise 
>throwing stones at things, until rabbits and squirrels, and even birds, got 
>out of his way as quick as lightining if they saw him stoop; and even grownup 
>he had still spent a deal of his time at quoits, dart-throwing, shooting at 
>the wand, bowls, ninepins and other quiet games of the aiming and throwing 
>sort..." (Chapter 8 "Flies and Spiders") 
> 
>And in _Lord of the Rings_ in the Prologue (part 1: "Concerning Hobbits") 
it's 
>explained that it isn't just Bilbo: "They shot well with the bow, for they 
>were keen-eyed and sure at the mark. Not only with bows and arrows. If any 
>Hobbit stooped for a stone, it was well to get quickly under cover, as all 
>trespassing beasts knew very well." 
 
Thanks for the reference, Erol.  This is very helpful, and I will amend the 
hobbits accordingly.  
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
"It yearns me not if men my garments wear; 
Such outward things dwell not in my desire: 
But if it be a sin to covet honour,  
I am the most offending soul alive." 
        William Shakespeare, Henry V 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Scott C. Nolan 
nolan@erols.com   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:34:09 -0800 
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@sprynet.com> 
Subject: Char: Titanic Man 
 
This Guy started out as a randomlu powered/skilled fellow using Creation 
Workshop. In the end I trimmed the stupid stuff (well most of it anyway) 
and this looked pretty interesting. What I turned him into was Titanic 
Man, (really sorry about the name - any one think of a better one? Some 
of this guy won't make sense but I'm trying to smooth him out as  I go. 
Sorry to trouble you with my boredom project but I already started so 
here goes (by the by anyone who liked "Hair of the Dog (the entire 
Album) might consider getting Boogaloo, Nazareth's new album I's pretty 
good - needs a kick @$$ instramental tho') 
 
 
 
Titanic Man 
 Val Characteristic Cost 
 20/100 Strength 10 
 15 Dexterity 15 
 20 Constitution 20 
 12/20 Body 4 
 20 Intelligence 10 
 10 Ego 0 
 15 Presence 5 
 10 Comeliness 0 
 12/20 Physical Defense 8 
 12/20 Energy Defense 8 
 4 Speed 15 
 10 Recovery 4 
 100 Endurance 30 
 60/68 Stun 28 
Characteristic Rolls: STR: 13/29-, DEX: 12-, CON: 13-, INT: 13-, EGO: 
11-, PER: 13- 
Run: 6", Swim: 2", Jump: 20", Lift: 400kg/25 kton 
 Cost Powers END/Roll 
 20 Elemental Control (20-pt reserve); Extra Dimensional Control 
 a-20 20" Teleportation (Long Range 20"); Increased Range: 1, +0; Mass 
Multiplier: 1, +0; Fixed Locations: 0; Floating Locations: 0 4 
 b-20 Extra-Dimensional Movement; Dimensions: Any, +20; Time Travel: 
None, +0; Mass Multiplier: 1, +0; Carrying Mass: None 4 
 c-20 Density Increase-8 (250 mass); Mass: 0 kg/0.00 lbs; Extra PD: +8; 
Extra ED: +8; Extra STR: +40; Knockback: -8" 4 
 d-40 Damage Reduction (Physical, 75% Resistant) 
 e-40 Damage Reduction (Energy, 75% Resistant) 
 f-20 Shrinking-4 (DCV +8, Height 0 cm/0"); Mass: 0 kg/0.00 lbs; 
Knockback Increase: 12; PER Bonus: -8 4 
 g-20 Growth-8 (250 mass, 6.3 height); Mass: 0 kg/0.00 lbs; Height: 0 
cm/0"; Extra STR: 40; Knockback Reduction: -8; Extra BODY: 8; Extra 
STUN: 8; DCV Penalty: -5; PER Penalty: +5 4 
 h-25 3d6 Absorption (Fade/turn, Max. 18); Affects: All Powers of 
Special Effect, +2; Absorbs Dimensional Energy only / Goes to all powers 
in EC: 
 7 Damage Resistance (10 PD/10 ED); OIF: -; Armored Costume 
 2 Knockback Resistance (-1") 
 Cost Skills, Talents, Perks Roll 
 3 Acrobatics 12- 
 3 Combat Driving 12- 
 3 Computer Programming 13- 
 3 Disguise 11- 
 1 Large Ground Vehicles 
 3 Navigation 11- 
 1 Planes 
 2 Science (Bio Chemisry) 11- 
 3 Systems Operation 13- 
 3 Trading 12- 
 100+ Disadvantages 
 20 Susceptibility (2d6 STUN and BODY/Minute); Condition: Uncommon, +5; 
Vibranium 
 10 Watched (8-); Capabilities: More Powerful, 15; Non-combat Influence: 
Extensive, +5; Geographical Area: Unlimited, -0; Only Watching: ׽; 
Punishment: Harsh, 0; Avengers 
 15 DNPC (Incompetent, 8-); Skills: Normal, +0; Sister (Sandra Clemons), 
Frail/Ill 
 10 Accidental Change (11-); If Struck by Extra Dimensional Energy 
Sources 
 10 Vulnerability (2 STUN); Attack: Uncommon, +5; Vibranium Weapons 
 10 Reputation (11-); Gigantic Hero 
 15 Secret Identity; Marvin Clemens 
 20 Code Against Killing (Common, Total) 
 15 Psych. Lim. (Uncommon, Total); Protective of Sandra 
OCV: 5; DCV: 5 / 0 / 13; ECV: 3; Mental Def.: 0; Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12 
PD/rPD: 20/10; ED/rED: 20/10 
COSTS: Char.: 157 Disadv.: 125 
Powers: + 259 Base: + 100 
  Exp.: + 191 
Total: = 416 Total: = 416 
 
 
Origin/Background 
 
Marvin Clemens was a technical assistant up against a wall. His beloved 
sister (and only remaining family member left), Sandra,  was seriously 
ill with leukemia. In desperation he offered his services to AIM to help 
steal some of Dr Henry Pym's secrets. Posing as (obviously) a research 
assistant assigned to aid Dr Pym on one of his current projects (the 
actual grad assistant was "disposed" of, however Marvin didn't know this 
he thought the assignment was forged). During his third night on the job 
he began to down load the files. He was not as clever as he believed and 
the Vision noticed the odd - hour data transmission. He investigated. 
    Marvin was caught off guard and attempted to escape. An accomplished 
athlete in his college days, he attempted to use his gymnastic abilities 
to escape. Out of practice, though he proved no match for the Avenger. 
Marvin, in despteration, used a detonation device to cause a diversion. 
In his panicked state he didn't realize that the booby-trapped device 
was right next to him. Marvin was caught in the explosion. The device 
had been an analytical energy detector (for lack of a neater science 
term), created bt Dr. Pym to study the dimension where his (and other 
mass/size altering heroes' and villians') mass came from and went too 
when he(they) altered his size. The device (as they often do) actually 
opened a momentary gateway to the "mass" dimension (actually there are 
several but we didn't know that at this point). Marvin's body 
disappereared. He reappeard twelve seconds later, dressed in a super 
heroic costume with odd writing on it and surrendered to the Synthezoid 
Avenger. 
    Marvin led the Avengers on a raid of the AIM installation that he 
had worked for. He plead no contest to his crimes and recieved a 
suspended sentance for his efforts. Telling the Avengers of his story 
what happend to him in the other dimensions and his reasons for why he 
had tried to steal from them in the first place, he was given 
probationary (just so they could watch him) status. He is now trying to 
become a hero in every sense of the word and is now able to use the 
resources of the Avengers to aid in treating Sandra. 
 
 
Powers: 
Marvin can alter his size/mass the way many heroes in the Marvel 
Universe can. However he also exibits control over the energies that 
transmit that mass that no one has yet to duplicate. He can grow or 
shrink in size as well as simply increase his density. With full "power" 
on he is a Hercules class powerhouse (although he weighs several hundred 
tons) He can also travel to the dimensions that he gains mass from and 
instantly transport himself to another spot in our dimension. His body 
is significantly tougher, but not bullet proof- he wears a special suit 
to stop killing attacks. Lastly he can absorb dimensional energies (very 
rare, especially as an attack form or power source), as a matter of fact 
he'd love to do battle with Maelstrom....heh. Mostly he is a standard 
"Brick" with some teleportation powers. 
 
Personality: 
Marvin is a nice guy who's whole focus in life was making sure Sandra 
was okay. His desire for a family makes him rush to relationships, he 
often scares others away with his clinginess (?). The Avengers are now 
part of his family (whether they like it or not) and he is very 
protective of them. However his adventures have openned his eyes to the 
world around him. He has a code vs killing and is very uncomfortable 
around those who aren't as dedicated to these ideals. 
 
Appearance: 
 
Titanic Man is well built and taller than he used to be, he looks 
superheroic. He stands 6' 6'' tall and weighs in at 255 lbs. His costume 
resembles a composite of Smasher and Titan of the Shi'air Imperial Guard 
(Titan's design with Smasher's colors) For those who don't have the 
foggiest idea who I am talking about, his costume is typical skin tight, 
with a mask that doesn't cover his face or hair, only his ears and and 
chin, it is white with black gloves, boots, and trunks. There is a red 
symbol on his chest red rectangles lining his gloves and boots and a red 
visor over his eyes. His hair is Black and he wears it long, his eyes 
are now red, but look human (he wears brown contacts). When in civilian 
ID he tends to dress in stylish suits in blacks and dark greys with blue 
silk shirts and white or red or black ties. 
 
 
 
 
Whadda ya think? 
 
Responses welcome 
 
Chad 
 
------------------------------ 
 
End of champ-l-digest V1 #166 
***************************** 


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