Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 17

Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 2:58 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #17

champ-l-digest Wednesday, November 4 1998 Volume 01 : Number 017



In this issue:

Re: Dark Side (???)
Re: Breadth vs. Depth
Luck House Rule
Re: City book layout question
Re: Cyber-Hero
Re: Indexes in Game Books
Re: CHAR: The Commando
Re: Campaign Styles/Types
Re: Hero Games News
Re: Martial Limitations
Re: 2 things
Re: Expanded gestures and incantations
Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)
Re: Power Pool Deja Vu
Re: Natural Disasters :)
Re: What's that name?
Re: body count/GMing philosophy and the building blocks of high adven ture

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:23:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Dark Side (???)

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> Heh... I've have the fan-subbed tapes with all the original puns as well.
> I picked up a subbed copy, but haven't watched it yet, but based on the
> back cover, they've hacked up some of the names bigtime.

Well...Meta-Rikana (the one that I remember from the back of the tape I
looked at) actually makes some kind of sense - the Japanese voice actors
do sound like they're saying 'Metarikana' instead of 'Metallicana'. What
other changes did they make?

Why did they change the names? I would have thought that they aren't
close enough for legal problems, especially since it's not in a musical
context...

> Dark Schneider has a mega-point spell called "Megadeath!" that can wipe
> out whole castles. Yeah, he's a lot of points...

Well, 'Megadeth' really, since it's named after the band.

So when can we expect the writeup for Dark, the princess, Bon Jovina*, and
the others? ;)

J

* Bon Jovina would, in GURPS, be a perfect example of 'Hard to Kill'. The
guy has no chance against any of the things he faces off against, but
somehow he manages to survive. I guess the best way to do this in HERO
would be buying extra Body with the limitation 'Only to stave off death'?

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 05:55:18 -0700
From: Darrin Kelley <backflash@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Breadth vs. Depth

Rook wrote:

> > There was a What If? recently, the only comic I read in full for years, I
> > think, where Spiderman, retired for about 20 years due to losing a leg,
> > found himself being hunted by the new Green Goblin, whose father had died in
> > the battle that cost Spiderman his leg. There was this wonderful scene where
> > Peter Parker went to the Avenger's mansion to get help. Looking at all the
> > "youngsters", he left with a "Never mind."
> >
> > He just couldn't see having a bunch of "kids" go into battle for him.
> >
> > Then his daughter shows up and kicks GG's butt.:)
> >
> > Filksinger
>
> That's not a what if. It's a new regular monthly series set 15 years
> into the future. It's part of a new line that includes I think 4 titles.
> One a future Avengers, one a future Juggernaut (as a hero, his son I
> think), and one a future X-title.

A-Next, J2, Spidergirl. Collectively known as the M2 line.

The story behind the birth of this project is pretty interesting. It started
with Spidergirl, which started originally as a story in What If. Marvel decided to
take it farther. And the M2 line is the result.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:21:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Luck House Rule

On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, Brian Wawrow wrote:

> Does anyone want to talk about champs? The world's most
> versatile game system? I still haven't heard about any really good house
> rules for luck.

In our games we have adopted the following system for Luck:

At the beginning of a session (or a fight if a long time elapses between
fights in game), the PC rolls his luck dice. He then counts the BODY of
these dice. This is how many 'luck points' he has. The points can be
used to alter die rolls in the PC's favor. A miss can become a hit and a
hit on the PC can be come a miss. Basically, it is 'x' number of
automatic successes for the PC for that night. This can be 'to hit'
rolls, skill rolls, CHAR rolls, what have you. Unluck work in reverse, it
being the number of time the GM can alter your die rolls in bad way.
Having more than 4 dice allows one to affect fellow PCS, in both good and
bad ways.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:40:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: City book layout question

> What I have in mind is a complementary pair of writeups for a single
> campaign city, in the form [City] By Day/[City] By Night. The "...By Day"
> sourcebook would describe a four-color superheroic campaign setting,
> emphasizing those areas of the City most relevant to that type of campaign.
> The "...By Night" sourcebook would describe the same campaign city, but
> emphasis would be on those areas appropriate to a heroic-level Dark
> Champions game.
>
You've obviously never been in a project, or you wouldn't use the
day/night analogy. :)

I'd do something like uptown/downtown, or 'the ville' and 'the hood'...

> Campaign cities already available could be used for either Champions or
> Dark Champions, of course. Would there be an advantage for the GM in
> having the material for the two types of campaign separated and organized
> as described above for future releases? Also, would it be better to
> release the material as two separate books (reducing cost for GM's who only
> want to run one of the two campaign types) or as a single "flipbook"
> (increasing cost for those who want to use both faces of the city, and
> requiring the duplication of some material for both books)?

Might I suggest you read San Angelo for ideas. They presented the whole
city in it's fullness and let you pick what parts to emphasize. It can be happy
and four color; and mean and in the streets.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:20:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Cyber-Hero

On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Jay P Hailey wrote:

> Hi Everyone
>
> I just got a copy of Cyber-Hero. I am officially happy. But I have
> heard a few whispered words on this NG that indicate that it might not be
> viewed favorably by everyone. Why? What Wrong with Cyber-Hero?

Re-read the cybernetics design rules. They blow chunks and make little
sense. They also violate the "if it's not a limitation it has no value
rule". In other words, the cyberware, regardless of system has "Does not
affect characteristics" as a limitation. They also have repeating
limtations relating to psychological problems from cyberware. The vehicle
designs are a laugh, since they don't have DEX numbers and every vehicle
has a DEF of 2 or 4, even armored cars and other vehicles. I also don't
like the netrunning rules, which seem to be very clunky. The guns don't
make a whole lot of sense either.

And... well, there are a lot of little things about the book that bug me.

When Kazei 5 comes out, get that, it has a lot of better stuff - some of
which was adapted from Cyberhero.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:46:45 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Indexes in Game Books

Lisa Hartjes writes:
> Would you like to see an index in a sourcebook? If so, what kinds of things
> would you want to be able to find quickly?

Definitely. All of the books should be indexed; I find the lack
of an index a major flaw in them. Indexes are a pain in the ass to
do, but they're essential. Modern indexing software (like the kind
used in FrameMaker) make it somewhat less difficult - you tag words or
phrases and generate an index from the tags.

Even a computer generated concordance would at least provide
something. Actually, I think it would be interesting to start from a
word concordance and maybe a phrase concordance and prune from there
to generate a first set of index tags. But even then, you need to go
through and add logical indexing as well as literal indexing, plus you
need to do noun/verb and verb/noun permutations.

As a (non-champions) example of that, if you have a section about
opening files, you need to index it under "opening files" and "file,
opening", plus as a subindex under a more general heading like "file
manipulation". You also might have to think of other phrases that
might occur to your reader, like "i/o" or "input" or "output", or
"reading a file" or "writing a file", etc.

Indexing is a skill, and believe it or not there are actually
people out there who love doing it and do it professionally. You can
probably find more information at www.stc.org, the Society for
Technical Communicators. It's the leading professional organization
for tech writers. Specifically there's www.stc.org/pics/indexing, and
you might also want out check out the American Society of Indexers at
www.asindexing.org.

Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 11:33:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Re: CHAR: The Commando

On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote:
<snippage>
In regards to CON, I will increase it. In regards to INT, I
didn't want to make him that much more intelligent than the average man or
woman. >
> Someone's using Dark Champions I see...
Yep. ...and in regards to the Cammo and VPP, the Cammo is his
'costume' and that's where the character conception began. I'm not used
to working with VPPs, so I'll have to refigure his VPP.

> Okay, not bad. I'd like to point out that your EGO roll is 11-, this is a
> -1 limitation if you treat it like an Activation roll.
> > 3 Range Skill Levels w/ sniper rifle: +4 OCV;
> > Only vs. Hit Location Modifiers (-1)
> Nope. You can't use Range levels to reduce hit location mods. You use
> normal combat levels. This is a 10 point power.
As for EGO, he might increase it. As for the levels, they will be
ammended.

> > 2 John Doe
> ? What Perk is this? DC's 'Deep Cover'?
It's from 'Underworld Enemies'

> > 8 Distinctive Features: Full Cammoflauge (Easily Concealable; Is
> > always noticed); Only in Hero ID (-1/4)
> Okay, I disagree with a limitation on a disad. For this case you should
> make it a conditional DF and subtract -5 points. Note: if this is his
Didn't know you could limit DF that way. I'll fix it.
> 'hero costume' you normally don't get a DF for this. And what is his Hero
> ID?
His hero ID is the full cammo with makeup and mask, armor, and
equipment.
Mystery ID is for all of the Arnie _Total Recall_ and _Dark City_
citizens. Often, the points are replaced by other Disads. after the
'true' identity is found. For the Commando, he may have a family (DNPC),
or he may be part of a government sponsored brainwashing/supersoldier
program.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:07:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: thomas deja <tdj723@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Campaign Styles/Types

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Welll lessee....i've played a Cyberpunk style Hero game based on THE
PSYCHO (A great DC miniseries), two different 'Teen Games' where the
players built normal teens first on 1000 points, then placed 75 points
of powers on them, a Mega-Hero game with unlimited power points as long
as they balanced.....

"'N I fell for all that'die-like-a-warrior' crap. I've seen clowns fall
off their bikes with more honor"
--Xander Haris, BUFFY TVS #1
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE, Tom Deja's webpage
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj



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Reply-To: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
To: "Hero System Listserv" <hero-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Campaign Styles/Types
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:25:19 -0400
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I am trying to figure out the different styles and types of campaigns that
people have for their games. Silly me, right now I can only think of two:
Dark Champions/Street Level and Four Color. I'd really appreciate it if
anyone could help me expand my list.


Lisa Hartjes

beren@unforgettable.com
ICQ: Berengiere (9062561)





- --61174483--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:53:18 EDT
From: <HeroGames@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Hero Games News

In a message dated 9/28/98 1:08:08 PM, tdj723@webtv.net writes:

>I've gotta say that I *really* doubt the wisdom of continuing with
>CHAMPS: New Millenium, which I thought was a failure--it pracitcally
>forced players into creating cookie-cutter characters (almost all the
>sample characters were the same in stats and powers), gave us a bland
>background and vague game mechanics.
>
>I *liked* the original Champs Universe; it *felt* like a real comic book
>universe....NM felt like an Image book--all style and no substance.
>
>But then, that's me....
>

To each their own. Champions: New Millennium products have sold far better
than any of the 4th Edition products except for the rules themselves... and
that only because the Champions: New Millennium rules haven't been out as
long. The New Millennium setting is a much easier setting for a new GM to use
because it requires very little work; all the elements are designed to fit
together. That doesn't matter much to most of the people on this list, who
mostly create their own settings, but it does matter to the larger audience of
gamers who don't have as much time, talent, or desire for worldbuilding as
those on this list. The Fuzion rules have brought in a much larger audience
because they are simpler; it's easier to generate characters and combat runs
faster. Again, not an advantage to a Hero System expert who can create
characters swiftly and run Hero System fast; but new players have a hard time
with both of those things. So we're happy with what the New Millennium line
has accomplished; it's brought in new players and increased sales.

Besides, all the forthcoming New Millennium products will have both Hero
System and Fuzion stats. Those who create their own settings can use them just
like any of our old products got used -- take out the parts you like and
ignore what you don't like.

- -- Steve Peterson, Hero Games

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:07:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Martial Limitations

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, geoff heald wrote:

> Perhaps I was unclear. Who much is it worth to specify that a given
> maneuver is _not_ usable with a weapon. If I learn a weapons element for
> my style, I may use it with any appropriate maneuver. What if I want to
> specify that _this_ maneuver _must_ be used empty-handed?

Apply a -1/4 modifier to the Weapons Element: Cannot be used with X
maneuver.

Of course, a -1/4 limitation on 1 point still equals 1 point...and powers
or whatever can't go below 1 point anyway. So this is basically my way of
saying, 'it's not worth enough to make a difference, just write it down
on the sheet and play it.

Why is it not worth anything? Let's look at examples:

Bob buys four (4-pt) maneuvers for bare hands (total 16 pts), and then
buys the 'swords' weapon element (total 17 pts). /IF/ a maneuver dropped
in cost by even 1 point for 'only usable with sword' or 'only usable
bare-handed', then he could put that one one of his maneuvers, and lo and
behold, he's got 3 barehanded & weapon maneuvers and 1 barehanded
maneuver, all for the price that Bob paid for 4 barehanded maneuvers.
Hmm. Not too good.

To make matters worse, what if Bob had something like Aikido: he's
purchased Martial Throw, Martial Grab, Martial Block, and a Strike. He
buys it bare-handed and with a katana (since Aikido does teach sword
forms to the higher ranks). Now he sells back the Weapon Element on the
Throw, Grab, and Block...he pays 2 points less than Joe (who never picked
up the sword forms) for the same set of maneuvers, /plus/ a sword strike.

So, 'can't use Weapon Element with X Maneuver' is a 'less than 1 pt'
limitation, and should be ignored for play balance.

J

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:38:59 +0100
From: Chris Lynch <chris@lynch1.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 2 things

Batman.
Batman.
Batman.

Oh and if you get the time.... Batman.

Actually I will take this opportunity to shamelessly plug my Batman utility
belt writeup which can be found in the Champions section of my website

http://www.lynch1.demon.co.uk


- -----Original Message-----
From: Matrix Mole <matrixm@on-net.net>
To: egyptoid@bellsouth.net <egyptoid@bellsouth.net&> champ-l@sysabend.org
<champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: 14 October 1998 05:13 AM
Subject: Re: 2 things


>On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:49:18 -0700 (PDT), Egyptoid
><egyptoid@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>1. Here's virtual hats off to Surge
>>for maintaining such a cool RPG site.
>
>Name doesn't sound familiar to me... what's the address?
>
>>2. whence DC heroes archive
>>There used to be a massive archive of character
>>sheets for various DC Heroes RPG write-ups,
>>done in a framed alpha web site, not just
>>an ftp directory. Does anyone have a current/working URL?
>
>The site you speak of sounds very much like Rob Maple's,
>unfortunately, his site is no longer with us on the web for unknown
>reasons. Most of the characters off of his site can be found else
>where though. Below are 3 sites that contain DC Character stats.
>
>http://www.idyllmtn.com/~kynn/dc-heroes/
>http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/DC/
>
>I take it you're looking for stats of people to convert over to
>champions format... I'd be happy to help as I myself am in the process
>of transferring certain characters from DC format into champions.
>
>>thanks.
>>
>>==
>>"and fiery demons will dance
>> when you walk thru that door;
>> don't say you're easy on me, Elliott
>> you're about as easy as a nuclear war." Egyptoid
>>
>>_________________________________________________________
>>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>
>--
>Matrix Mole
>"sig routed to /dev/null"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:25:28 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Expanded gestures and incantations

> To my mind, all powers have some kind of basic 'gesture' -- Firebolt Man
> has to aim his firebolts at his target, if his hands are behind his back,
> he can't hit someone in front of him. Oculon, on the other hand, can shoot
> at anything he can see with his eye-beams...but he can't aim his eyebeams
> at the handcuffs holding his hands behind his back. These are 'no value'
> limitations, they're part of the special effects. If a hero could generate
> an aimable blast from any point of his body, I'd call that a pretty nice
> ADVANTAGE -- indeed, it is, it's called "Indirect".

Nope.

Indirect deals with targeting. Like artillery's indirect fire. I could
use indirect to hit a guy who's location I knew on the other side of a
hill or around a corner.

What you're doing is making a house rule to add a limitation to the
game as mandatory and making it worth -0.

> Gestures means, to me, complex and visible movements EASILY restrained --
> entangle, handcuffs, a grab, etc. 'Must blink eyes' or 'Must wiggle nose'
> are special effects.

Nose and Eyes can be restrained, but that's another point. Gestures
does not say it needs to be easily restrainable. It does say the power
user must be able to move freely. That's not the same thing. It does
also say that is restrained or grabbed the power cannot be turned on.
Also not the same thing.

Jeanie's head wink is actually a perfect case for not only gestures,
but gestures which are easily restrained by being grabbed. As per the
notes in the BBB.
You hold her head still and she can't bob it.

- --
Rook WebRPG TownHall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:36:35 +1000
From: Mad Hamish <h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)

At 11:14 PM 8/23/98 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, m wrote:
>
>> > > > >It's bad enough that the only Kryptonians we see are caucasian in
the
>> > > > >animated series (and in the normal Superman comic book back in
the 70's,
>> > > > >the only place on Krypton you'd find black people was on a tiny
island
>> > > > >called Vathlo).
>> > > well ermn, isn't that a good thing? based on the setting, and if i
>> > > remember correctlythey were kinda super-advanced. . .?
>> > Ethnic segration is advanced? What's advanced about one race not
>> > interacting with another? Persoanlly, I think super-advanced Kryptonians
>> > would have had no qualms about inter-racial relationships, and by the
time
>> > it blew up, you'd have all the seperate 'racial types' of Krypton whipped
>> > up together.
>>
>> well, that's an elitist view of history. . the idea that anyone truly
>> 'advanced'would be behaving the way we think is right.
>
>A case can be made that a morally advanced race or people would recognize
>that all people of the same sepecies (like their own) are equal,

Well to play devil's advocate is it _possible_ that this wasn't true for
the Kryptonians? I haven't read the series with the Vathlosians at all and
consider it extremely unlikely but possible.

I _think_ that the post-Crisis Krypton has a more cosmopolitan look.

>regardless of skin color, nationality, religion or place of birth. Based
>on everything I've even seen (which, admittedly isn't a lot) Krypton wa
>home to a 'morally advanced' people.

I think that varies a lot depending upon what stories based on/around
Krypton you've read. I don't recall the exact details but some of the
stories I've read have suggested that they didn't exactly have much respect
for any non-Kryptonian.

>
>> the group had good
>> background-
>> a 'lost land' of techniologically advanced persons, fit in well with the
>> 'pulp adventure' style of the whole tales of krypton deal. To say that all
>> advanced
>> cultures are automatically polotically correct is a fallacy.
>
>Recognizing that people are equal and should be accorded equal rights and
>recognition is a 'politically correct fallacy'? *That* is a very narrow
>view of the world.

It's a matter of whether the Vathlosians aren't given the rights or choose
to preserve their culture as separate. i.e. a Buddist monk may have the
right to go to a strip club but they may choose not to.
>
>> For all WE know,
>> kryptonians may have actually been a seperate species from the valtho. . .
>> do they STILL have to live together in harmony, tra la la la la? where do
>> you draw the line?
>
>Well, it would be nice. If the one race doesn't psoe a threat to the
>other, then why not? And by posing a threat, I mean by actively
>assulting on another, not the fact that they exist being considered a
>'threat'.

Dunno, I wonder how realistic mutual acceptance of competing (in an
evolutionary niche) species is.

> Human history had far to many cases of one people wiping out
>anotehr 'because they were there'.

Simplistic, in many cases there is a lot more to it than that.

> Look at the American Indian,

largely for land as I understand it.

> the Spanish treatment of the Indians they met in Central America,

Gold combined with the "interesting" religious practices of some of them.

> the crusade vs the heretics in Prussia by the Knights Templar,

I don't know enough about that one to comment.

> the Japanese pushing back the 'barbaric' Ainu and so on.

ditto.
>
>Hmmm... hasn't there been conflict among the Aborigones and white
>Australians to this effect?

Yep, unfortunately there has been.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:17:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Power Pool Deja Vu

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998 Firelynx16@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 9/14/98 5:47:34 PM Central Daylight Time,
> bob.greenwade@klock.com writes:
>
> > >60/10 = 6 is right IF the slots are fixed and not variable, otherwise
> > >it's 60/5 = 12
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > [snip for space]
> > >> > > 60 Multipower Pool (120), OAF Mystic Staff
> > >> > > 6 m 12d6 EB
> > >> > > 6 m 30" Flight
> > >> > > 6 m 30 PD, 30 ED Force Field
> > >> > >
> > >> > > If it isn't legal, please tell me where it breaks down. If it is
> > >> legal,
> > >> > > please tell me how you would design it, if you would design it
> > >> differently.
> > >> >
> > >> > These should be 12 each and not 6.
> > >> > 60/5=12.
> > >>
> > >> Except each slot also gets the -1 OAF limitation as well, so they
> > >> *would*
> > >> cost 6 points each.
> >
> > Both Brians are correct that a variable slot in a 60 point pool would
> > cost 60/5=12 points; but *then* you apply the -1 Limitation for OAF on the
> > above power construct to get a final slot cost of 6 points.
> > ---
>
> That's not right, if I'm reading it correctly. The Multipower is a 120 point
> MP, not a 60, right? So the variable slots would cost 24 points each, before
> the Limitation is applied... which would then result in the correct answer of
> 12 points each. Am I missing something?

No, you're right. I was looking at the 60 instead of the 120 part of the
Multipower.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:40:45 -0500 (EST)
From: thomas deja <tdj723@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Natural Disasters :)

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I would assume it's a massive BDY drain linked to a Transform (healthy
flesh to easten-away, diseased flesh).....

"'I thought you loved stake-outs."
"Yeah--it's like camping with guns."
--Costas Amdolyr and Tammy Lauren, MARTIAL LAW
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE, Tom Deja's webpage
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj



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Reply-To: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
To: "Hero System Listserv" <hero-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Natural Disasters :)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:06:28 -0500
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Talk about natural disasters got me thinking about their after effects, such
as diseases spread due to poor or no sanitation, contaminated water, and so
on. That in urn lead me to think about the really nasty stuff people can
catch.

Has anyone thought of the mechanics for the so-called flesh-eating disease?


Lisa Hartjes

beren@unforgettable.com
http://roswell.fortunecity.com/daniken/79
ICQ: Berengiere (9062561)

"Evil is only victorious when Good chooses not to win."



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:46:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: thomas deja <tdj723@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: What's that name?

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Egon Spengler; the book was Toben's Spirit Guide.....

"'N I fell for all that'die-like-a-warrior' crap. I've seen clowns fall
off their bikes with more honor"
--Xander Haris, BUFFY TVS #1
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
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Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:07:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: What's that name?
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Okay... I'm working on a scenario and I need to know...

What was the name of Harold Ramis' character in "Ghostbuster"?

Egon Spengler? Is the the right spelling?

And what was the book he was always quoting from?

Tobien's Spirit Guide, right? as it Tobien, Tolbien or some other
spelling?

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************



- --27278605--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:09:13 -0700
From: rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: body count/GMing philosophy and the building blocks of high adven ture

> As a player I've seen one other PC get killed when the GM didn't like
> the player and had his PC get attacked by suprise by six agents using AP
> penetrating autofire RKA machine guns.
>
> cheap. I always try to minimize the Jeuvenile Bullshit factor in
> any game. If you're going to totally outgun someone, make sure there's a
> chance to escape or make the attack non lethal. If you keep the fights
> fair, let the enemies take off the kid gloves, the players aren't
> being gentle.

Yes, it was very cheap and obvious when he did it. And those two people
are still mad at each other over it. That game happened in 1988 or so
too. They no longer speak to each other by virtue of living in different
cities; but broke off even before that.

> wow, no deaths in an FH campaign? how do you establish any
> kind of grittiness or sense of drama if your players don't think they can
> die?

Who needs grittiness? I have drama and fantastic wonders.
Different style. My world would likely drive you nuts. And vice versa.

> I never run a fight in which I don't give the players a chance
> to get themselves killed. If they aren't careful and an enemy gets a
> good shot I never fudge. Luckily, shots from enemies mostly blow off
> limbs and things. Yes it's dangerous and potentially traumatic to the
> player but like I always say...
>

> * PC's with berzerks or total psych lims are hard on player
> dynamics and longevity.

This is true.

> * The best fights end with the PC's dragging a couple of their
> buddies away to safety before the enemy's backup shows up.

Not always. The best fights are the ones that have long lasting
repercussions on the story. That could be a clear win, a draw, or a
straight out loss. Or anything in between.
Personally if I'm always losing or just barely getting by it bothers me
as a player. I begin to feel as if I have no power to affect things and
accomplish my goals.

> Over the past 15 years of gaming, I've lost probably a half
> dozen PC's personaly just by having a perfectly reasonable enemy get a
> really nice shot on me. I've killed a couple of characters in the same
> way and I've had PC's wax one another on one occation because they
> were playing their disads properly and things got out of hand.

See. I rarely let groups come together that are going to have this
style of conflict. I prefer other forms of inter-party conflict than
murder theft and betrayal. Different strokes for different folks.

> The long and the short of it is this. You want your players to
> have a good time, right? Walking through every scrap without ever
> getting kicked around gets very boring very quickly. So if you want your
> PC's to feel like they've accomplished something, they can't sail

Actually, most players tend to fear capture of their PC's over all
other events.
And combat and risk are not the goals for everyone. I've seen romance
situations have just as much if not more 'sense of accomplishment'.

> There's no greater satisfaction than making your toughest
> scrapper get really really paranoid. I've been in a long running FH

To some. Paranoia is not my goal. A good yarn is.

> campaign where the GM made sure most tough magic items were
> booby-trapped. Makes sense doesn't it? If you're going to go to all the
> trouble and expense of enchanting some honkin staff, you're going to
> want to make sure no one steals it and walks away, right?

Depends on how magic works. Couldn't see it in my own fantasy world.
Magic there is a reflection of the soul and the spirit world. There are
risks, but they are very differetn than your style.

> Please forgive my rants. I've just been in too many campaigns
> were you always knew how the fight was going to end and the players
> were just along for the ride.

Death isn't the be all end all of the game. Different focus for
different people. Personally I don't believe a PC should ever die unless
it's a major campaign event. The same with a major NPC.
It should be a major dramatic event with lots of buildup that is
remembered for years to come by the players and GM.

Different focus.

If I lost a PC to a 'die roll' or lucky shot of someone; I'd likely
never game with that group again. I think the same could be said for at
least half my current players.


My fantasy Hero world is slowly taking shap at:

http://www.infinex.com/~rook/alluvia

The nations and races are not too well written up yet. Most of my work
has gone into describing magic.

- --
Rook WebRPG Town Hall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

------------------------------

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