From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 12:46 PM 
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #176 
 
 
champ-l-digest        Monday, February 1 1999        Volume 01 : Number 176 
 
 
 
In this issue: 
 
    Re: Taking BODY 
    Re: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ? 
    Re: Other SRPGs as source material? 
    Re: Martial artist power 
    Off Topic Questions 
    Re: Martial artist power 
    Re: Martial artist power 
    Re: GenCon 99 
    Re: GenCon 99 
    Re: GenCon 99 
    Re: Multipower Questions 
    Re: Limitations on Multipowers 
    Re: How much damage should guns do. 
    Re: How much damage should guns do. 
    Re: Martial artist power 
    Re: Martial artist power 
    Re: Martial artist power 
    Re: Martial artist power 
    Re: Martial artist power 
    Re: Life Support 
    Re: Martial artist power 
    Re: GenCon 99 
    Re: Martial artist power 
    Re: capitol patrol 
    Re: Taking BODY 
    Ultima Online like Project 
    Re: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ? 
    Re: capitol patrol 
    (no subject) 
    Re: Martial artist power 
    Re: Ultima Online like Project 
    Re: Martial artist power 
    Re: capitol patrol 
    (no subject) 
    Re: LS and their effects on attack damage 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:29:28 -0800 
From: "Eric Wylie" <erk@halcyon.com> 
Subject: Re: Taking BODY 
 
Could you elaborate?  Do you disagree with the concept or the 
implementation? 
 
I have been asked by others to provide some additional information here. 
The campaign is essentially a four-color campaign.  We do use elements of 
Dark Champions to create a more realistic campaign.  Hence, this rule.  Each 
player is asked to have a spare character.  (Essentially, the junior varsity 
team.)  Character points start at 250. 
 
I'd really like to know everyone's opinion on this.  (And why...) 
 
Thanks, 
Eric 
 
- -----Original Message----- 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 5:43 PM 
Subject: Re: Taking BODY 
 
 
>"EW" == Eric Wylie <erk@halcyon.com> writes: 
> 
>EW> 9. Body Damage: If you've taken BODY damage, even if it's been healed, 
>EW> the character must come out of play for one Game Session or "Scenario 
>EW> Week" for every 3 BODY taken to allow for proper recuperation from your 
>EW> injuries. 
> 
>See ya, I'll go play in someone else's game. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:49:46 -0600 
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@binary.net> 
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ? 
 
Hmmm the basic abilities considered 'standard' to shadowrun mages could be costly 
in hero terms, astral projection for one... I like the idea even so. 
 
Lance 
 
Stainless Steel Rat wrote: 
 
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> "CH" == Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> writes: 
> 
> CH> Has anybody done a conversion from the Shadowrun magic system to Hero ? 
> CH> I quite like a couple of the Shadowrun assumptions for their system and 
> CH> have been idly thinking of how it would work in Hero. 
> 
> Having been a long-time Shadowrun player, I would say badly.  The mechanics 
> work in Shadowrun because the system was designed with them in mind. 
> Grafting them to Hero would be clunky at best. 
> 
> Or else use Side Effects at half bonus and allow personal defenses to apply 
> against that damage. 
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> -- 
> Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get 
> Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover 
> PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ head. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:15:54 -0500 (EST) 
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja) 
Subject: Re: Other SRPGs as source material? 
 
>From: miles.kim.gary@mcleodusa.net (Gary & Kim Miles) 
 
>IMHO, the best V&V adventures include:  
>  F.O.R.C.E. 
 
I agree wholeheartedly--FORCE and, to a lesser extent, its sequel (which 
for some reason I cannot remember the name of) is one of the most 
interesting and intriguing super-hero modules I've ever seen, filled 
with some excellent characters, a mastermind's base, and more..... 
 
"Many bears talk" 
"Somehow I wouldn't have reckoned they had a lot to say." 
 
"Talk Goddamn head off.  Always got something to say about bees." 
- --Jonah Hex and Spotted Balls, JONAH HEX: SHADOWS WEST 
____________________________________ 
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is 
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley 
_______________________________ 
An except from the new story "Too Needy" can now be found at MAKE UP 
YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE 
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:50:27 -0500 (EST) 
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor) 
Subject: Re: Martial artist power 
 
What are the three senses? I'll take this. 1) visual : you see the dodge 
2) hearing : you hear the huffs and grunts, no to mention the taunts 
3)  smell : that much dodging will really work up a sweat.  [:8) 
 
I worked up the same power for dodging entangles once. How are you 
handling the affect desolid advantage. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 00:13:36 -0500 
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net> 
Subject: Off Topic Questions 
 
I'm sorry to do this on list, but is is kinda on-topic. 
I've written this message backwards: First I'll get to the point, then I'll 
give the long explanation of why I'm asking 
First off, my email is 
gheald@worldnet.att.net 
please send all replys there instead of back to the list, as I'm sure the 
list has enough off-topic posts.  If you would like to see a digest of the 
replys or my final results, email me and I'll send it. 
 
I know this list has some members who are not in the USA and these 
questions are mainly for them. 
 
What kind of cars are sold where you live and who makes them?  Do you know 
who owns that company? 
How about trucks, heavy equipment, motorcycles, ocean-going ships, trains, 
airplanes, or helicotpers? 
 
What TV channels/networks can you watch?  Do you know who owns them or 
which other channels are owned by the same company? 
 
What are the major corporations in your country?  What do they do? 
 
See, I write and play Role Playing games that are set in the near future. 
It is sometimes fun to set these storys or adventures in foreign countries. 
 Brand recognition helps to reinforce a sense of realism. 
 
Also, when plotting out what the major corporations are doing in the 
future, it helps to know a bit about the world.  Like, if I decide that 20 
years from now General Motors is making 65% of the cars sold in the world, 
well, they'd have to take over some foreign markets to do that, either by 
driving a rival out of business or by buying other car makers. 
 
Do you have any notions of likely changes in the near future?  Like, I 
heard that Fiat might be for sale. 
 
Of course, if in 1949 you asked anybody if they thought Volkswagen would be 
one of the 3 largest car companies in the world in 50 years, they'd have 
laughed long and hard, and if you'd suggested that Volkwagen might buy 
Bently, the makers of Rolls Royce automobiles, they'd have hurt themselves 
laughing.  But that happened. 
 
 
============================ 
Geoff Heald 
============================ 
And it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark Ages. 
Roving bands of well-paid craftsmen fitted two extra beads to abacuses and 
sorted it out. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:52:05 -0600 (Central Standard Time) 
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu> 
Subject: Re: Martial artist power 
 
> M> Any comments on the power? 
>  
> Try +8 DCV (40 AP).  Aside from fitting your special effects, it sidesteps 
> all the other problems inherent in abusing Desolidification in this 
> fashion. 
 
	SFX are no attacks, remember--that's part of the desol. 
Therefore, we're looking at 40 points of 2 pt levels with dodge, costs 
end. 
 
	Try +30 DCV with dodge, costs end.  Of course, this way, you are 
still going to be hittable with that 1 in 216 roll of 3 -- something to 
consider. 
 
 
					-Tim Gilberg 
			-"English Majors of the World!  Untie!" 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:59:01 -0600 (Central Standard Time) 
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu> 
Subject: Re: Martial artist power 
 
> the absolute nature of Desolid that's going to draw the most criticism from 
> a potential GM (and/or folks on this list ;]) -- barring true 
> insubstantiality, there ought to be SOME chance of hitting the character, 
> with sufficiently high skill. (Or so a GM might reason.) 
 
	Actually, no.  I think that would be part of a "mystical" level of 
defensive skill--no amount of luck gets you this attack.  You'll need a 
special attack, affects desolid (only for mystical dodges limitation on 
the advantage only).  Of course, while this person is using this "dodge," 
they are completely unable to attack as well--and a well-thrown grenade 
will end things right quick. 
 
 
					-Tim Gilberg 
			-"English Majors of the World!  Untie!" 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:58:15 -0600 
From: "Keldon Mor" <Keldon@NetNitco.net> 
Subject: Re: GenCon 99 
 
>I finally found what looked like a decent site for last year's con, then 
>manually changed the part of the URL that referred to the year.  That 
>brought up a site none of the search engines had noticed: 
> 
>http://www.andonunlimited.com/CONS/GEN99/ 
> 
>This site is slow-loading and at least some of the links seem to go back to 
>their pages on the '98 Con.  I think this is really just a shell waiting 
>for this year's information. 
 
 
    For those who missed GenCon last year, it's in a new convention center 
built next to the old one. It's nice (except the escalators broke down every 
15 minutes). The worst thing was that they didn't put any partitions up 
around the tables. Ever try to game in a room with about 40 tables @ 10 
people/table? It's rather noisy. 
 
    Anyone considering going should watch that web site closely As last year 
they put the game list up so you can pick your games. This helps because if 
you don't get your picks in early, you don't get alot of em. (this goes for 
the hotels also) It helps to early bird register also as I got my hotel 
reservation papers in the mail last week. It really helps planning for 
gencon in January.... 
 
PS-Pay the extra to stay downtown..... 
 
Peace, 
     Keldon Mor 
     Keldon@NetNitco.net 
     http://ww2.netnitco.net/users/keldon 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 00:53:45 -0600 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@home.com> 
Subject: Re: GenCon 99 
 
>     For those who missed GenCon last year, it's in a new convention center 
> built next to the old one. It's nice (except the escalators broke down every 
> 15 minutes). The worst thing was that they didn't put any partitions up 
> around the tables. Ever try to game in a room with about 40 tables @ 10 
> people/table? It's rather noisy. 
 
Ah, but you didnt mention the most important thing!  They seperated the Magic 
players off in their own building!  We didnt have to look at a single Magic card 
during the entire convention last year!! 
 
 
Todd 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:38:00 -0600 (Central Standard Time) 
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu> 
Subject: Re: GenCon 99 
 
> Ah, but you didnt mention the most important thing!  They seperated the Magic 
> players off in their own building!  We didnt have to look at a single Magic card 
> during the entire convention last year!! 
 
	What!  And I missed it?  My first year in 8--sheesh has it been 
that long--with no GenCon, and I miss the year where us oldtimer RPGers 
get a victory.   
 
	I remeber how much the con changed in its first Magic year.  It 
was depressing, in a way, to be one of the old timers watching what Gencon 
had become.  I wonder if the Wargamers felt the same way back in the day 
of _that_ revolution. 
 
 
					-Tim Gilberg 
			-"English Majors of the World!  Untie!" 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:36:44 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Multipower Questions 
 
>If you put 4 Charges on the reserve, you put 4 Charges on the slots.  That 
>is strictly by the book. 
 
Or, that you put four charges collectively on _all_ the slots.  It's just as 
easily read that way. 
 
> 
>If Charges breaks, it is Charges that is broken and needs to be fixed. 
>Making an exception is not fixing the problem, it is covering it up. 
 
Nonsense.  Charges works on every other part of the system; if it comes a 
cropper in the multipower, the multipower application is where the problem lays. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:34:21 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Limitations on Multipowers 
 
>Which means that the 7-in-1 is more fragile than 7-in-7.  7-in-1 has 12 DEF 
>(for example) and 1 Body, whereas 7-in-7 has 7 powers each with up to 12 
>DEF and 1 Body.  7-in-1 can be entirely destroyed by a single attack that 
>does 13 Body; 7-in-7 would require 7 separate attacks (or a couple of big 
>Autofire attacks) doing up to 13 Body each. 
 
Not really, Rat; since an Energy Blast can be spread across a hex for a 
whole loss of one die, you could get a shot at each of those slots for the 
loss of that die...and it's quite argueable that the Body on the slots would 
only be based on the slot cost, not the multipower cost.  At that point, 
most slots would likely be destroyable with pretty small attacks. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:31:27 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: How much damage should guns do. 
 
>WS> And one guy who really didn't mean it as harshly as he took it.  I 
>WS> didn't think there was anything wrong with his adding rules to make 
>WS> Hero do what he wanted.  I just wanted to emphasize that the basic 
>WS> design _was_ cinematic. :P 
> 
>Yes, the basic design is cinematic.  Gun damage can be disturbingly 
>realistic if you use all the optional stuff (especially the hit location 
 
As I've said, I don't altogether agree with this, but it certainly does 
improve it. 
 
>table), but the basic system is still cinematic.  Because of that, grafting  
>on more mechanics to make it more realistic is just going to bog things 
>down in totally unnecessary ways.  If you want a playable system with a 
>more accurate damage scale, try Phoenix Command, or the original 
>incarnation of Cyberpunk, the version with the original Friday Night 
>Firefight. 
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>--  
>Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. 
>Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \  
>PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \  
> 
> 
Well, the problem with this is that one can want a Hero style character 
generation system, with all the special options and detailing, and still 
want more realism.  If you don't find Fuzion, GURPS or CORPS to your taste, 
at that point you pretty much have to fix Hero to do what you want.  But you 
do have to be aware what the basic design is all about to do that effectively. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:44:32 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: How much damage should guns do. 
 
>>>>>How does this seem unrealistic to you?   
>>>> 
>>>>One: one can die a lot faster than the bleeding rules will allow. 
>>> 
>>>But, on the other hand, one can die a lot SLOWER than the bleeding rules 
>>>will allow.  As such the rules seem to be useful, flexible for a range of 
>>>results, but with neither extreme, which are not typically the rule, but 
>>>the exception, wouldn't you agree?  Another thought: perhaps someone who 
>>>died faster from bleeding had a lower BOD (you cant see their character 
>>>sheet after all). 
>> 
>>The difference in Body scores isn't big enough to represent the difference. 
>>And your other point just reinforces mine; no, it isn't particularly 
>realistic. 
> 
>It reinforces your point that the bleeding rules are unrealistic when they 
>believably model reality the majority of the time? 
 
No, because they fail in both directions, and fairly often.  Untreated 
wounds do sometimes stop bleeding, but not as often as the game would 
suggest; in addition, they stop bleeding _more_ often with the bigger 
wounds.  This 
 
> 
>>>What do you mean here?  The BOD damage of a penknife wound is much less 
>>>than a bullet, unless its like a .22 pistol round, I watched an episode of 
>>>cops where a guy with 3 bulletholes in his gut drove around looking for the 
>>>guy who shot him with the cops, he was uncomfortable but not in danger, he 
>>>was hardly bleeding.   
>> 
>>Then the bleeding rules aren't a representation of what you're talking 
>>about.  That's part of the problem with them.  And the minimum damage on a 
>>small firearm and a penknife are about the same, but any wound in the 1-5 
>>range bleeds the same. 
> 
>Actually to me that negates your complaint that you stop bleeding too 
>easily at low levels and that bullet damages are too similar to knife 
>wounds.  A small wound is a small wound, whether its caused by a pitchfork, 
 
Except the minimal damage for most bullets beyond a crease (probably isn't 
even Body damage by the system's standard) should be rather larger than from 
a penknife.  That's part of the problem; the Body damage system is too 
coarse to accurately model such distinctions well.  And even in that case, a 
small deep penetrating wound is far more dangerous than a broader surface 
wound, in genera. 
 
>a forklift or a pinecone.  The source of the damage is insignificant if the 
>trauma is similar (energy causes different effects like cauterization, acid 
>damages differently than a spoon, but a knife and bullet do similar kinds 
>of damage for this argument). 
 
Actually, I don't agree they do. 
 
 
>>>The Death in Impair is given as an option to GMs, an option within an 
>>>option (this is used by me to represent guys who drop like a stone in 
>>>movies from a major hit and never get back up).  Thus it is not what I 
> 
>>>would call a set rule nor an example of poor writing, but a way for GMs to 
>>>have a cinematic effect should they so choose. 
>> 
>>Actually, it happens in reality, too.  Just not too often with small arms, 
> 
>So you are saying that this rule is realistic at least on some level? 
 
The fact a rule can produce a realistic result doesn't make it realistic. 
Frequency matters too. 
 
> 
>>particularly handguns.  And we weren't talking about whether a rule was good 
>>or not; we were talking about whether it was realistic.  Those aren't the 
>>same thing.  A good rule serves it's intended purpose; a bad rule doesn't. 
>>One can only asses that on realism levels if realism is one's intent.  The 
>>death on impair _isn't_ realistic, however; it suffers from the opposite 
> 
>So you are saying it isnt realistic on any level?  Im confoozed. 
 
See above.  Yes people can die from single handgun rounds.  No they don't 
expect to do so nearly as often as the death-on-impair will have them do it. 
That makes it unrealistic even though some of it's results match _some_ real 
world events. 
 
> 
>>problem the system is usually heir to, which is to say that it is _too_ 
>>lethal.  If using the death on impair unmodified, especially in connection 
>>with hit location, it can be hard to hit anyone with a normal range without 
>>killing them instantly.  This is over and above my personal dislike for 
>>rules that apply unequally to PCs and NPCs. 
> 
>Like I pointed out, its an option to an option, hardly enforced, I use it 
>unrealistically to eliminate downed little guys that dont matter or to 
>reward a spetacular hit.  In addition, the PCs are playing a GAME and thus 
>the point is to have fun, and being dropped by a lucky hit isnt fun unless 
>you are playing Paranoia heheh.  This is neither here nor there, but I 
>always hated critical hits for this reason. 
 
Different strokes.  But I'd rather have a rule apply to everyone or no one. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 04:12:24 -0600 
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net> 
Subject: Re: Martial artist power 
 
At 12:50 AM 2/1/99 -0500, chrisopher spoor wrote: 
>What are the three senses? I'll take this. 1) visual : you see the dodge 
>2) hearing : you hear the huffs and grunts, no to mention the taunts 
>3)  smell : that much dodging will really work up a sweat.  [:8) 
 
And I ask again: how does this differ from the 0 pt. Dodge? (A: It doesn't.) 
 
- -- 
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to  
do nothing." -- attributed to Edmund Burke (1729-1797) 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 04:12:26 -0600 
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net> 
Subject: Re: Martial artist power 
 
At 11:59 PM 1/31/99 -0600, Tim Gilberg wrote: 
> 
>> the absolute nature of Desolid that's going to draw the most criticism from 
>> a potential GM (and/or folks on this list ;]) -- barring true 
>> insubstantiality, there ought to be SOME chance of hitting the character, 
>> with sufficiently high skill. (Or so a GM might reason.) 
> 
>	Actually, no.  I think that would be part of a "mystical" level of 
>defensive skill--no amount of luck gets you this attack.  You'll need a 
>special attack, affects desolid (only for mystical dodges limitation on 
>the advantage only). 
 
In your idiom, "Actually, no." It is well within a GM's rights to disbelieve 
the existence of such a "mystical" level of skill, and to answer complaints 
of "but I don't want there to be ANY chance of getting hit!" with "Tough 
noogies." Not all GMs WILL ban it, and I wasn't saying such -- I just said 
that those who WOULD, are going to have issues precisely with the concept of 
"perfect dodge". 
 
- -- 
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to  
do nothing." -- attributed to Edmund Burke (1729-1797) 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:05:56 -0600 (CST) 
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> 
Subject: Re: Martial artist power 
 
On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Bryant Berggren wrote: 
> At 03:20 PM 1/31/99 -0500, Marc wrote: 
> > I am working on a Martial Artist.  A defenceive based M.A. 
> > I gave him.  Desolid.  (Not thgout Solds or flow through cracks). 
> > 
> > He can get hit with mental powers and area fo effect powers. 
>  
> What's your 3 Senses? Desolid isn't Persistent, and therefore is *visible*. 
 
When we did this in a high-powered anime-style Martial Arts game, we used 
the following: 
 
1) Vision - the character 'traced', leaving afterimages behind him 
 
2) Hearing - the power use was accompanied by sound effects which I will 
   not attempt to reproduce here. 
 
3) Chi - Lots of people (comparatively) had a sense that could detect use 
   of mystic powers, and this set it off. 
 
> Also, you get the wierdness of Affects Desolid attacks suddenly neutralizing 
> your dodging effectiveness ... but I consider that a flaw of the advantage, 
> not the construction. 
 
True.  We didn't allow unlimited Affects Desolid in the game.  (Well, OK, 
nobody tried to take it, so we didn't have to make a ruling on what 
possible SFX would be able to affect all possible Desolid SFX). 
  
J 
 
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent.              Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com 
Qui annus est?                                   http://www.io.com/~jeffj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 05:00:01 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Martial artist power 
 
At 06:19 AM 2/1/99 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote: 
>From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu> 
>cc: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
>Subject: Re: Martial artist power 
> 
> Try +30 DCV with dodge, costs end.  Of course, this way, you are 
>still going to be hittable with that 1 in 216 roll of 3 -- something to 
>consider. 
 
   I seem to recall that someone had a list of "You know you're a HERO 
gamer if..." statements.  I don't remember who that is, but I think we can 
add: 
   "You know you're a HERO gamer if you can't remember that 5^3 is 125 or 
that 7^3 is 343, but that 6^3 is 216 comes easily." 
   :-] 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:48:07 -0600 (Central Standard Time) 
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu> 
Subject: Re: Martial artist power 
 
> >What are the three senses? I'll take this. 1) visual : you see the dodge 
> >2) hearing : you hear the huffs and grunts, no to mention the taunts 
> >3)  smell : that much dodging will really work up a sweat.  [:8) 
>  
> And I ask again: how does this differ from the 0 pt. Dodge? (A: It doesn't.) 
 
	It doesn't need to.  If a power that simulates a martial maneuver 
is considered legal with no need for invis in other instances, why should 
this be any different?  Martial attacks can be bought as HAs or EB's with 
no range--there is no need for any sort of invis on the power, even if it 
doesn't look any different than a standard Punch. 
 
 
					-Tim Gilberg 
			-"English Majors of the World!  Untie!" 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 09:25:38 EST 
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com> 
Subject: Re: Life Support 
 
>One of my PC's has recently acquired desolid as a power. 
>         
>in order to have this though, he needs to have life support.  so he has 
>picked that up as well. 
>one thing though, he has decided to throw on a limitation to the lif  
>support 
>saying that it only works while he is desolid. 
 
I don't know _why_ he would have to buy LS before getting desolid, but if 
that's the house rule . . . buy the LS Linked. 
 
Leah 
 
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------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 05:23:35 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Martial artist power 
 
At 12:50 AM 2/1/99 -0500, chrisopher spoor wrote: 
>What are the three senses? I'll take this. 1) visual : you see the dodge 
>2) hearing : you hear the huffs and grunts, no to mention the taunts 
>3)  smell : that much dodging will really work up a sweat.  [:8) 
 
   OTOH you could also take a Xena-esque approach: 
   1.  Sight - you see the dodge, and the character moves around so fast 
that he appears slightly blurred. 
   2.  Hearing - the "whoosh" of air as the character moves about. 
   3.  Ki Sense - anyone with the appropriate Detect or Awareness can 
recognize the Power's presence, even if it's out of sight and hearing. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 09:25:38 EST 
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com> 
Subject: Re: GenCon 99 
 
>    For those who missed GenCon last year, it's in a new convention 
center 
>built next to the old one. It's nice (except the escalators broke down 
every 
>15 minutes). The worst thing was that they didn't put any partitions up 
>around the tables. Ever try to game in a room with about 40 tables @ 10 
>people/table? It's rather noisy. 
 
Thanks for the warning -- a friend of mine and I were thinking about 
going to GenCon, but she's severely hearing-impaired.  No sense in 
shelling out for plane tickets, hotel and con membership if she won't be 
able to play.  (She does lip-read, but trying to get everyone at the 
table to look directly at her when they talk could be tricky.) 
 
Leah 
 
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------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:45:11 -0600 (Central Standard Time) 
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu> 
Subject: Re: Martial artist power 
 
> In your idiom, "Actually, no." It is well within a GM's rights to disbelieve 
> the existence of such a "mystical" level of skill, and to answer complaints 
> of "but I don't want there to be ANY chance of getting hit!" with "Tough 
> noogies." Not all GMs WILL ban it, and I wasn't saying such -- I just said 
> that those who WOULD, are going to have issues precisely with the concept of 
> "perfect dodge". 
 
	And as Rat is sofond of saying, this would be a good campaign to 
not play in.  It is not an unreasonable concept--superhuman mystical 
dodging, especially when the disadvantages--costs END, can't attack, still 
quite vulnerable to certain things--are considered.  If a GM disallows a 
perfectly reasonable concept because he or she just doesn't like that sort 
of thing, then as a player I really wouldn't want to play in that GM's 
campaign. 
 
 
					-Tim Gilberg 
			-"English Majors of the World!  Untie!" 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 05:08:51 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: capitol patrol 
 
At 04:05 PM 1/31/99 EST, DVBaum@aol.com wrote: 
>I was wondering if anybody had any info on the Capitol Patrol.  They were 
>mentioned in Champions Universe.  I also know that they were featured in some 
>convention games.  Unfortunately that is all I know.  If anybody can help me 
>out, I would appreciate it.  They seemed like a cool group of heroes. 
 
   From what I understand, they were originally a playtest group used by 
one of the Hero authors (I don't know which one, but I'm pretty sure it 
wasn't one of the Big Four of Greer, Harlick, MacDonald, and Peterson). 
They were first mentioned and listed in the dedication of an adventure 
supplement (one of the 3rd Ed books, I think) and entered legend status 
when they were put in CU. 
   Scott Jamison and I once discussed collaborating on "Regional Allies" as 
a sequel to the "Allies" book, which would have included them as well as 
the Bayou Brigade and the Minnesota Thunder (moved there from New York), 
but nothing ever came of that (count that as fortunate or unfortunate as 
you will). 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 05:37:52 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Taking BODY 
 
At 09:50 PM 1/31/99 -0800, Eric Wylie wrote: 
> 
>9. Body Damage: If you've taken BODY damage, even if it's been healed, the 
>character must come out of play for one Game Session or "Scenario Week" for 
>every 3 BODY taken to allow for proper recuperation from your injuries.  If 
>the character wants to continue even while trying to recuperate, there'll be 
>the following restrictions: 
 
   As someone else mentioned, this does seem a tad harsh. 
   I'd start by toning down "must" in the above to "will be expected to."  :-] 
 
> Any physical exertion the character makes (i.e., using STR, running, 
>inherent powers) will be considered to be, for the duration of recuperation, 
>on an Activation Roll of 14- (Base).  This Activation will be at a -1 for 
>every 3 BODY taken.  In the event the Activation Roll is unsuccessful, the 
>character will take 1d6 NND (muscle ache & pain) for every point the roll 
>was failed by.  In the event of a fumble on the Activation Roll, that power 
>or ability will be considered to be lost for the duration of the run, and 
>the recuperation period will be doubled. 
 
   Pass on the Activation Roll.  Just make OCV, DCV, and all Skill Rolls 
involving physical exertion at -1 per 2 BODY taken, or per week left of 
recuperation, whichever is more.  Apply the NND and fumble rule to those 
Attack Rolls and Skill Rolls. 
 
>In addition, when a character takes BODY damage in combat, they will be 
>required to make an EGO roll at -1 for every 2 BODY taken that phase 
>(rounding down) before continuing.  If the EGO roll is unsuccessful, it must 
>be made on a successive Active Phase before the character can continue to 
>operate, or until the character has taken a Recovery.  This is the 
>equivalent of pressing forward in spite of your injuries, and will make 
>things more realistic, and will apply equally to heroes and villains. 
 
   Is this any character, or just a recuperating character? 
   In either event, I think I'd only require that a character who misses an 
EGO Roll be required to take one Recovery before going on.  Either that, or 
the character works at half effectiveness in everything (half STR, half 
DEX, half Movement, etc.) until a successful EGO Roll is made. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:12:47 -0500 
From: "Vance Scott" <vances@sympatico.ca> 
Subject: Ultima Online like Project 
 
Greetings, and Salutations: 
 
    I heard something about a group of gamer's / programmers who were trying 
to work together on creating a generic Ultima Online like game network. I'm 
fairly certain it was on this mail list or at on the IRC #herochat if 
someone could send me an email, or a web page address I'd appreciate it. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:24:06 -0600 (CST) 
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> 
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Magic to Hero system ? 
 
> From: "Keldon Mor" <Keldon@NetNitco.net> 
 
> >I'm either misunderstanding you or haven't been clear myself. 
> >The *base* drain is always a *fixed* amount. Regardless of the 
> >effect /power level / damage you achieve the drain would be the same. 
> >The *actual* drain is dependent on how well you resist it. 
> >So, you always 
> > 
> >Curt 
> > 
>  
> Actually with SR3, the drain isn't fixed anymore... Combat spells have a 
> drain based on the damage level cast. Cast a Deadly force spell, resist a 
> Deadly force drain, Light force, Light Drain, etc.  Casting area affect 
 
Yes.  This is still 'fixed' by my definition. You know exactly what the  
drain is going to be when you cast the spell. As opposed to knowing a range 
that the drain is going to fall into.  That is, knowing that you  
have to resist an 8 deadly rather than resist a 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 or 10  
deadly. 
 
Curt   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 10:09:09 +0000 
From: Gary & Kim Miles <miles.kim.gary@mcleodusa.net> 
Subject: Re: capitol patrol 
 
I ran a Capitol Patrol adventure from the RPGA for a con once. I don't have it 
handy, so this is all from memory. 
 
I do know that the adventure was written by Rob Bell. According to the intro, he 
ran a number of Capitol Patrol adventures at a number of cons, including GenCon. 
 
Off the top of my head, the characters included: 
 
    Lightbearer (?), a light-manipulator 
    Max Bowman, a stage magician who dressed in the typical top hat & tails 
    Revenant, a dead cop who refused to die. He looked kind of like a zombie 
        wearing a Grateful Deadhead-type of outfit (torn t-shirt, jeans, etc.) 
    An intelligent panther whose name I forget. 
    Igneous, a rock-like "brick" 
 
I think there were one or two others, but as I ran the adventure about 5 years 
ago, I don't remember who they were. 
 
Hope this answers a few questions. 
 
Gary 
Remember: No Matter Where You Go, There You Are... 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:19:12 -0500 
From: Jorge Cadavid <cadavid@gate.net> 
Subject: (no subject) 
 
unscribe 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:34:29 -0600 (CST) 
From: gilberg@ou.edu 
Subject: Re: Martial artist power 
 
>   I seem to recall that someone had a list of "You know you're a HERO 
>gamer if..." statements.  I don't remember who that is, but I think we can 
>add: 
>   "You know you're a HERO gamer if you can't remember that 5^3 is 125 or 
>that 7^3 is 343, but that 6^3 is 216 comes easily." 
>   :-] 
 
        Too true.  And quickly working out just how to get 40 real points 
with a -1/2 limitation is another necessary skill. 
 
 
                                        -Tim Gilberg 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:42:44 -0600 (CST) 
From: gilberg@ou.edu 
Subject: Re: Ultima Online like Project 
 
>    I heard something about a group of gamer's / programmers who were trying 
>to work together on creating a generic Ultima Online like game network. I'm 
>fairly certain it was on this mail list or at on the IRC #herochat if 
>someone could send me an email, or a web page address I'd appreciate it. 
 
        First I've heard of it.   But if someone here does know anything 
about such a project, I'd like to know as well. 
 
 
                                        -Tim Gilberg 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:39:29 -0600 (CST) 
From: gilberg@ou.edu 
Subject: Re: Martial artist power 
 
><< 	It doesn't need to.  If a power that simulates a martial maneuver 
> is considered legal with no need for invis in other instances, why should 
> this be any different?  Martial attacks can be bought as HAs or EB's with 
> no range--there is no need for any sort of invis on the power, even if it 
> doesn't look any different than a standard Punch. >> 
> 
>               Hey does this mean my powers based martial artist gets the 
>visible limitation. All his martial arts are based on Chi ( visible aura, 
>smell of ozone, and a slight 18k hum). because as I understood it if you pay 
>end you need special effects. 
 
        But the SFX of making the attack is SFX enough.  An invisible attack 
would be just that, invisible.  You never see or hear the attack come 
in--you're just hit.  And that's a whole other construction and conception. 
 
        So yes, with those SFX, I think you just may qualify for an extra 
"visible" limitation if they are also visible to Chi sense--that would make 
4 senses. 
 
 
                                        -Tim Gilberg 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:43:51 -0600 (CST) 
From: gilberg@ou.edu 
Subject: Re: capitol patrol 
 
>Off the top of my head, the characters included: 
> 
>    Lightbearer (?), a light-manipulator 
>    Max Bowman, a stage magician who dressed in the typical top hat & tails 
>    Revenant, a dead cop who refused to die. He looked kind of like a zombie 
>        wearing a Grateful Deadhead-type of outfit (torn t-shirt, jeans, etc.) 
>    An intelligent panther whose name I forget. 
>    Igneous, a rock-like "brick" 
> 
>I think there were one or two others, but as I ran the adventure about 5 years 
>ago, I don't remember who they were. 
 
        Was ShadowWolf a memeber of this team? 
 
 
                                        -Tim Gilberg 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 12:13:03 -0500 
From: Jorge Cadavid <cadavid@gate.net> 
Subject: (no subject) 
 
unsubscribe 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:51:12 -0800 (PST) 
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> 
Subject: Re: LS and their effects on attack damage 
 
Lisa Hartjes writes: 
> I was surfing the web this afternoon and discovered a very useful web site 
> - you pick a major city anywhere in the world, and it will show you the 
> effects of a nuclear bomb exploding there. 
>  
> As any good (and Evil) GM would, I started thinking about the applications 
> of this web site to my game.  I know there is LS: Immune to High Radiation. 
> Now, would having this power make a character immune to the radiation 
> effects of a nuclear bomb?  Of course, they can still be killed by the high 
> pressure wave that will tear through the area, but I'm asking specifically 
> about the radiation. 
 
There are three ways a nuclear weapon kills people: 
a)  A burst of X-rays and neutrons, which kills due to radiation poisoning 
(Game mechanic: NND does body).  LS: Radiation will protect _totally_ against 
this. 
b)  A blast of light, which will cause various thermal effects (Game mechanic: 
energy killing attack).  LS: Radiation will be as effective against this as it 
is against a laser -- i.e. irrelevant. 
c)  A shockwave in the air (Game mechanic: physical energy blast).  Again, LS: 
Radiation has no effect. 
>  
> I'd also like to know if anyone has had a nuclear bomb situation in their 
> games, if the bomb went off, and what happened. 
 
Hm...I've had a couple go off, at varying power levels.  In the normal power 
level game, we ran away.  In the 25-30 die game, the nuclear self-destruct in 
the giant monster knocked almost everyone out and came very close to killing 
some martial-artist types ;) 
 
------------------------------ 
 
End of champ-l-digest V1 #176 
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