Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 189
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 7:47 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #189
champ-l-digest Friday, February 5 1999 Volume 01 : Number 189
In this issue:
General Etiquette Comment
Re: The 3d6- system sucks!
Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
Re: Normal Men as Superheroesg
Re: blocking the heavy hits
Re: Mind Link Question
RE: The 3d6- system sucks!
Re: Multipower Questions
Re: Character: Gandalf The White
Character: Ghan-Buri-Ghan
Re: [Re: Limitations on Multipowers]
Re: Normal Men as Superheroesg
Re: [Re: [Re: Multipower Questions]]
Enemies of San Angelo cover
Re: blocking the heavy hits
Re: [Re: Unity in Nerd Culture [was GenCon 99] ]]
Re: Character: Gandalf The White
Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
Re: Character: Gandalf The White
Re: [Re: [Re: Multipower Questions]]
Re: [Re: [Re: Limitations on Multipowers]]
Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
Re: Strengh Table ?!?! and falling system!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:53:30 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: General Etiquette Comment
I think that some of our recent debates might have
been less rancorous if the list members involved
used phrases like "I think" and "in my opinion",
or best of all "in my campaign".
There are way too many pronouncements handed
down from Mount Sinai around here. In my opinion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(What like a bullet can undeceive!)
But now they lie low,
While over them the swallows skim,
And all is hushed at Shiloh.
Herman Melville, Shiloh, A Requiem (April 1862)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:48:45 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: The 3d6- system sucks!
From: Warren E. Taylor <wtaylor@mindspring.com>
<snip>
>I do not find these things objectionalble. An 11- is a 62.5% success chance
>and a 12- is a 74% chance of success. Looked at another way, the 11- is a
>37.5% chance of failure and the 12- is a 26% chance. This happens to be
>about a 144% greater chance of failure for the 10 INT. I don't happen to
>think that twice the intelligence in real life would yield half the failure
>chance, so these numbers are quite reasonable. The bell curve of the 3d6
>system is a very important consideration.
World-class weightlifter walks up to a door. It is heavy, and requires a
STR-roll to open. He uses his full STR, and he has a 14- to open it (91%),
if you have loose NCM.
My 8-year-old son (a rather large boy) walks up to the same door, and gets a
10-. 50% of the time, he opens the door.
A 4-year-old, with a -5 STR, walks up to the door, tugs hard, and opens it
on a 25% chance.
If a 4-year-old gets a 25% chance, a prepared grown man should _never_ fail,
much less a world-class weightlifter. The bell curve is nice, but it just
doesn't do the job.
In almost any field, you will find people who are skilled at the job, and
others who can consistently do things that the merely skilled find utterly
impossible. The bell curve is not enough to simulate that, in its present
form; it doesn't come close.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:02:03 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
From: ErolB1@aol.com <ErolB1@aol.com>
<snip>
>For example, in our current superhero game I'm a martial-artist/gadgeteer
>named Cavalier who's a physically a normal human. But he's also a Brilliant
>Scientist (chemistry type) in his secret ID, and one of his gimicks is a
>'special chemical treatment' of his costume's fabric that makes it 15 pt
>armor. But it also has a weakness: The PD portion of the armor has the Lim
>"only vs Body."
Not bad, save that he is now unable to suffer even a cracked rib from a blow
that would wreck a Hundai.
>He isn't often hit, since he has a good DEX and a fist full of Levels. But
>when he is hit, he's usually CON-stunned and often KOed, at least if the
>attack is physical rather than energy. The result is a pretty good
>approximation of genre: He has plenty of incentive to dance around and
avoid
>getting hit, and when he is hit he ends up in the genre position of lying
>unconscious on top of some rubble. Furthermore, the aftermath is the
in-genre
>one of his waking up to face a deathtrap or some other evil plot rather
than
>the contra-genre one of lost BODY, broken bones, paramedic first aid, and
>lengthy hospital stays.
But, assuming that a low-DEF hero generally avoids getting hit completely,
which is both smart and in genre, he doesn't end up in a long hospital stay.
He will generally avoid the hospital entirely. Superheroes of this sort
avoid directly getting struck by Juggernaut, or being right next to the
grenade, or other similar fatal events as a rule. It isn't so much genre as
sanity. However, when they do inevitably get caught by the really tough
brick's fist, or are too close to the bomb when it goes off, or the building
falls on them, they don't die, but they also don't take no BODY. They
somehow just take a bit less BODY than they should have.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:25:34 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
At 01:40 PM 2/5/99 -0800, Filksinger wrote:
>>This is the same thing. Even the most careless, berzerk brick will never
>>(okay, almost never) hit someone with his full strength unless that someone
>>could take it. It is not a matter of psychology or disadvantages or game
>>mechanics. It is totally unrealistic, but it is a convention of genre.
>
>I don't think that the list generally agrees with your contention that it is
>a part of the genre.
And however much it might be a part of that genre, this is a game,
not a comic book, as Scott Bennie pointed out. As with movies
made from books, some things don't translate all that well.
In my opinion, Filk's house rule (and that is all it is) allows the
- -story- of the game to proceed much as Rat contends that
the story of the comics proceeds.
Note that Filk never said to give Cyke-like heros straight
Damage Reduction. It only came into play when the blow
would otherwise have been a fatal one. That seems to
me to be an excellent way to model the SFX of "Glancing
Blow from Massive Fist".
The guy with this power would still be best advised not
to take on the Hulk, but if the situation or story demanded
the confrontation, this power would land him in the hospital,
not the morgue.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(What like a bullet can undeceive!)
But now they lie low,
While over them the swallows skim,
And all is hushed at Shiloh.
Herman Melville, Shiloh, A Requiem (April 1862)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:06:08 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Normal Men as Superheroesg
From: Bryant Durrell <durrell@innocence.com>
<snip>
>This all made me lie awake last night thinking about ways to do this
>right in a superhero game. Alas, I wound up thinking about a system in
>which an attack did a single unit of damage, no matter who it came
>from, and everyone could take about the same number of units before
>falling over...
Sounds like those video games where you can play one of a team of
superheroes, such as the X-Men, and Colossus and Cyclops can take the same
amount of damage.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:40:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: Re: blocking the heavy hits
On Fri, 5 Feb 1999 gilberg@ou.edu wrote:
>
> >uhm... wait a moment. I have seen, both in comics and in other
> >genres/media, scenes where person A has tried to block person B's atatck
> >and falied miserably because person B's blow was too
> >powerful/strong/heavy. Happens in fantasy a lot. Hapless redshirt puts
> >up his sword in an attempt to block Stormbringer (or Conan) and the
> >sword blow plows right through the blocking sword (or, sometimes
> >shield) and hits anyway.
>
> Yup. The person rolled to block and failed the roll--the block
> caving in is SFX. If they had made their roll, the SFX would have been
> something like moving aside in order to make that sword-shield contact more
> angled.
I can buy that. And as has been pointed out, one can/should use the
Fantasy Hero rules about blocking with weapons to take into account
shattering things. (I also realized that one could buy magical weapons
with some sort of Damage Shield that only affects blocking weapons,
sheilds and armor - allowing one to destroy an opponets gear)
> >As a side note, I remember "The Wierd", where Batman blocked Superman's
> >blow and broke both forearms in the process. How do you model that? A
> >failed block? Yet he didn't take full damage from the attack. Hmm..
> >Filksinger? This looks like your realm.
>
> I'd say that you don't. This would require, IMO and based on the
> last list discussion of this, a complete rewrite of the combat system. It's
> a mess. The best we came up with last time had people paying more to
> partially block then to fully block. Perhaps this is best modeled with
> "rolling with the punch," merely being a different SFX. You take less
> damage, but you still take some, perhaps much, of it. And a Superman strike
> is pretty damn powerful to begin with, so even if Batman "rolled," he'd be
> in considerable pain.
Good point, I can buy that one too.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"...Nothing is a coincidence if it happens to bolster the conclusions we
already seek. This is how we professionals discover the messages hidden in
seemingly disparate objects or events."
James Finn Garner
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:43:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mind Link Question
> Mind Link is 0 END, Persistent.
> ML never goes away unless shut off by an act
> of will, or the power is Drained, Suppressed, etc
Mind Link: Costs END or not?
We had so many telepaths in the J.L.Alabama game
that we had this argument. Do you know how we solved it?
Here's Stupid HSR Tricks No.504:
We booted up Hero-Maker, made a new guy with one
power, Mind Link, no advantages or
Limitations, and printed the sheet.
Since Hero-Maker had 0 in the END column, we
decide ML cost none. Several PC's got points
back because the lame-oid GM had made'em buy
it Zero-End Pers. !
;)
==
=========================== Elliott aka The Egyptoid ==
=== JLA: Justice League Alabama === Central HQ ===========
=== http://www.sysabend.org/champions/elliott/index.html =
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:16:23 -0800
From: "Jim Dickinson" <ethernut@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: The 3d6- system sucks!
> for Fuzion. A lot more options, and a much greater difference
> between poor,
> fair, good, great, and the very best _you_ will ever see.
...sounds like FUDGE...almost...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 14:11:21 PST
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Multipower Questions
I know I said I was going to stay out of this argument from now on.
Guess what! I lied. I couldn't stop myself from trying one more time.
However, this is IT. I really mean it. No more will you hear from me
on this topic. This is my swan song. Would I lie to you... again?
BTW: I apologize if this post seems needlessly verbose. I'm trying to
cover all of my bases, 'cause I really don't intend to do this again.
On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) wrote:
>
>My argument was that the cost value is clearly broken when a four >slot
multipower with charges can end up with more overall uses than >one of
it's single powers would while costing less. Something is >obviously
wrong at that point. Rat thinks it's the Charges; I think >it's how the
Multipower handles them.
>
My argument is that there's nothing wrong with either Charges or
Multipower is written except that they need to have some examples and
clarifying notes added.
As has been pointed out, by Anthony Vargas among others, a set of
charges is a Limitation. 2 separate sets of charges are 2 separate
Limitations. Therefore, if you apply a set of charges to each of the
slots, and each of those slots can use all of the charges assigned to
it, and none of the charges assigned to the other slots, then they are
all separately limited by discrete Limitations. If those Limitations
have the same name, value, and similar effects, that doesn't make them
the same limitation. Therefore, you cannot apply the value of the
charges limitation to the Multipower as a whole, as the whole Multipower
is not affected by a single overriding limitation that affects all slots
equally and simultaneously.
Conversely, if you want to apply the value of the Limitation to the pool
of the Multipower, then that single Limitation must apply equally and
simultaneously to each and every slot at once. Thus, if you put the
charges limitation on the pool, then there is a group of charges that
all slots of the multipower draw upon. If all of those charges are used
up, then there are no more charges, and none of the slots can be used
until they refresh. In this case, as the rules state, the value of the
limitation can be placed on the pool and all of the slots, as they are
all (as component parts of the Multipower) reduced in effectiveness in
equal proportion. This is all that the rules say! Why make it more
complicated?
These are two entirely separate effects, modeled in different ways, to
acheive different results. One method is more expensive than the other,
but this is good, because that method is the more flexible and powerful
of the two.
In keeping with the trend of comparing the Charges limitation to other
limitations, despite the fact that I believe all of these comparisons
are irrelevant and serve only to distract people from the central issue,
I offer another example:
Consider the 4 charges limitation, and consider OAF. Both have the same
value. Both can be defined by a wide variety of special effects. Both
often represent physical objects. If I apply the OAF limitation to each
slot of a multipower (and I know that this is widely considered
non-kosher, don't worry, I agree). As I said, if I were to apply OAF to
each slot of a multipower, then say that each OAF was a Wand, (e.g. Fire
Wand for Fire Blast, Ice Wand for Ice Blast, et al.) and each slot had
it's own wand associated with it, separate from the other slots, you'd
call me crazy to say that I could apply the OAF to the reserve. After
all, there is no one OAF for the whole Multipower. Nothing that can be
taken away to remove the MP from the player all at once. Each OAF is a
different limitation, because if one of the wands is lost or stolen, the
multipower as a whole is not lost. This is the same sort of thing I'm
talking about with Charges. If you want to have 4 charges each on 5
separate slots in your multipower, that's fine. However, if one of those
slots runs out of charges, the others continue to operate normally.
Thus, the Charges limitations, though they may have the same name,
value, effects, and cost, are separate limitations. They cannot be
applied to the MP as a whole. It says so right there in the BBB that we
all know and love.
Now, if a note to this effect were added to the Multipower rules (or
whatever replaces them) in 5th edition, we could cease this destructive
conflict and rule the galaxy together as fath... Er, I mean, get on
with our lives.
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 18:00:45 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Gandalf The White
>I don't think anyone commented on this before, but: is 'Use risks drawing
>Sauron's attention' really a limitation,
And yes, I think giving the Dark Lord of Mordor, King of the World,
Gorthaur the Cruel, your name and address and the information
that your using what he considers to be his property is one
hell of a limitation. I'd think twice.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(What like a bullet can undeceive!)
But now they lie low,
While over them the swallows skim,
And all is hushed at Shiloh.
Herman Melville, Shiloh, A Requiem (April 1862)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:12:57 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Character: Ghan-Buri-Ghan
GHAN-BURI-GHAN
13 STR 3
15 DEX 15
15 CON 10
13 BODY 6
16 INT 6
18 EGO 16
15/25 PRE 5
8 COM 1
6 PD 3
6 ED 3
4 SPD 15
7 REC 2
40 END 5
40 STUN 12
Characteristics Cost: 100
7 +10 Presence, Only If Viewer knows who Ghan is
7 +5 Recovery, Only to offset Long-term Endurance
28 Clairsentience, x1K Increased Range,Only through the Eyes of
Pukel-Men, Extra Time (5 minutes) only to start power
2 +1 Enhanced Perception, Smell
18 Invisibility to Sight and Hearing groups, Only in Woodland
Settings, Only at half-speed or less, requires a Stealth Check
10 Summon "Pukel Man",100-point creature, OAF, bulky,
Extra Time (1 hour)
70 1,000 100-point Followers
5 WF, Common Melee, Common Missile, Blowgun
5 1 Level: Melee Weapons
10 2 Levels: Missile Weapons
9 3 Levels: Blowgun
3 Simulate Death
3 Climbing 12-
11 Concealment 16-
3 Contortionist 12 -
11 Mimicry 15-
7 Navigation 13-
7 Paramedic 14-
7 Security Systems 14-
11 Shadowing 15-
15 Stealth 18-
11 Survival 15-
3 Tactics 12-
11 Tracking 16-
3 Ventriloquist 11-
9 AK: Druadan Forest 18-
3 Scholar
6 KS: Herbs and Poisons 16-
4 KS: Orcs 14-
5 KS: Pits and Snares 15-
5 KS: Hunting 15-
4 KS: Guerrilla Tactics 14-
4 KS: Pukel-Men 14-
2 KS: Healing Arts 12-
0 Lang: Drughu, Native
1 Lang: Westron, Basic Conversation
1 Lang: Rohirric, Basic Conversation
33 Multipower (67), "Poison Darts", OAF
3u 3D6 Drain v. Con, fades per hour,16 Charges, Ranged
2u 1/2D6 RKA, No Normal Defense (def: Rigid armor),
Does Body, 8 continuing 1-turn Charges,Continuous
Powers Cost: 359
Total Cost: 459
Base Points: 75
5 Age, 40+
15 Distinctive Features, "Druadan", not concealable, minor
15 Hunted, "By the Rohirrim", more powerful, harsh, appear 8-
10 Hunted, "By Orcs", as powerful, harsh, appear 8-
20 Psychological Limitation,"Love of Solitude",very common,
strong
15 Psychological Limitation,"Hatred of Orcs",common,strong
25 Psychological Limitation,"Protective of Druedain",very
common,total
5 Reputation,"Silent Killer with Magical Powers",occur 8-
274 Short n' Ugly Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 384
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 459
Ghan-Buri-Ghan is the clan leader of the few Druedain (sing. Druadan)
who remain alive at the time of the War of the Ring. Despite his
fear of and anger at the Rohirrim who hunted his people like animals, and
had driven them into the last refuge of the Druadan forest, his greater
hatred was for the orcs to whom he knew the Rohirrim were opposed.
He led Theoden's army through the secret paths of the Druadan forest,
allowing them to avoid the army of orcs and Easterlings guarding the
Great West Road. In exchange, Theoden swore that the Rohirrim would
never again hunt the druadan.
The Druedain are a minor race of men who were the first inhabitants
of Gondor, in the First Age. The only contact between them and the
Dunedain scholars was when a small group of them fought in the Wars
of Beleriand as part of the Second House of the Edain. It was said that
their implacable enmity to Morgoth's orcs made them special delights
to the Dark Lord when captured.
Throughout the Second and Third Ages, the Druedain were driven from
their homes in the upland vales of the White Mountains by succeeding
groups of men from the east, who became the common folk of Gondor.
Even in the First Age, the Druedain were known for strange powers
and affinity with stone. Their stone carvings, known as pukel-men,
can be found throughout western Middle-Earth. It is widely believed
that the pukel-men are inhabited by evil spirits summoned by the
Druedain. In fact, Druedain of great power and learning (like Ghan)
can instill part of their own essence into the stones, and see through
their eyes, or even more rarely, cause them to briefly come to life as
great stone guardians.
The word "druedain" is Sindarin. To themselves, they are the "drughu".
In Westron, they are known as the "Woses" or "Wood-Woses". In
Rohirric, they are "Wudu-wasa".
The Druedain are short and stocky, about four feet tall, but heavy
of leg and brow. Adults males are always bald, save for the occasional
whisp of facial hair, which is a mark of distinction. They have no written
tongue and indeed speak little, even among themselves. The druedain
are masters of motion and stillness. They can sit unmoving for days,
or run all day without exhaustion. The druedain are masters of the
forest, and when forced to fight, do so by an ingenious system of
fading into the forest, confusing and separating thier enemies and
killing them in small groups.
Despite this mastery, and the existence within their population of a
number of men and women wise in the brewing of poison, the druedain
dislike killing and will use their blowguns to knock out an opponent
instead, if the situation allows.
NOTES:
1) Ghan is not typical of the Druedain. His "Invisibility" is merely a
measure of his superior ability at stealth. His Clairsentience, Summon
and KS: Herbs are all rare and highly prized abilities within the druedain
society.
2) The Simulate Death ability reflects Ghan's ability to sit unmoving for
days. Druedain are occasionally mistaken for their own carvings.
3) Ghan's Security Systems skill is his ability with setting and avoiding
pits and snares.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(What like a bullet can undeceive!)
But now they lie low,
While over them the swallows skim,
And all is hushed at Shiloh.
Herman Melville, Shiloh, A Requiem (April 1862)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:11:01 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: Limitations on Multipowers]
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>"CT" == Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> writes:
>
>CT> In my opinion the problem isnt with THIS rule, but with the incredibly
>CT> teeny defenses that foci get.
>
>Remember, Focus *IS* a limitation.
True, but in the case of an OIF or an IIF, taking damage automatically when
the Focus supplies defense is unfair. A person with a Breakable Focus is at
a _severe_ disadvantage compared to someone who has the identical power but
an Unbreakable focus, but gets no points for this major limitation.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:41:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Bryant Durrell <durrell@innocence.com>
Subject: Re: Normal Men as Superheroesg
Filksinger writes:
> From: Bryant Durrell <durrell@innocence.com>
> >I'd actually probably be comfortable with simply buying PD and ED
> >defined as "genre defenses." Automatic rolling with the blow, as it
> >were. That'd require a strong GM hand to avoid twinkism, but it would
> >certainly be the simplest way to simulate the genre convention.
>
> That's a decent one. I'd prefer Damage Reduction. My original suggestion
> wasn't intended to reduce all damage, however, only to avoid death without
> appearing superhuman.
This all made me lie awake last night thinking about ways to do this
right in a superhero game. Alas, I wound up thinking about a system in
which an attack did a single unit of damage, no matter who it came
from, and everyone could take about the same number of units before
falling over...
- --
Bryant Durrell [] durrell@innocence.com [] http://www.innocence.com/~durrell
[----------------------------------------------------------------------------]
"For every prohibition you create you also create an underground."
-- Jello Biafra
------------------------------
Date: 5 Feb 99 16:12:51 MST
From: ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: Multipower Questions]]
owner-champ-l@sysabend.org wrote:
> From: ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net>
>
> <snip>
> >A Multipower with 4 slots, each with 4 charges, is in the same situation.
> >Each slot has a different limitation. What? They all have '4 charges?'
> >Well sure, the name of the limitation is the same. 'Doesn't Work durring
> >the day' and 'Only works durring the Day' are both 'Limited' limitations -
> >that's the name of it. They're each good for a -1. Anyone want to argue
> >they're 'the same' limitation?
>
> Considering that quite a few people already have, on several occasions,
<boggle>
____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:23:51 EST
From: GoldRushG@aol.com
Subject: Enemies of San Angelo cover
The final cover for Enemies of San Angelo (Stock # H301, ISBN 1-890305-13-8)
has been posted to our website. We're in the process of revamping our web
site, but you can get a peek at the cover of our next Champions 4th Ed.
supplement right now! Just click on the link below, or (if the link doesn't
work) point your browser to
http://members.aol.com/goldrushg/eosa/eosacovr.jpg.
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/goldrushg/eosa/eosacovr.jpg">eosacovr.jpg at
members.aol.com</A>
Enemies of San Angelo goes to print next week, and is scheuled for a March
1st release. The 96 page sourcebook contains more than 5 dozen supervillains
and NPC "normals" for any Champions campaign. Written by Mark Arsenault, Steve
Kenson and Patrick Sweeney. Illustrated by Steve Bryant, Nancy Champion, Storn
Cook, Albert Deschesne, Bryce Nakagawa and Greg Smith. The book retails for
$16.
For distributors and retailers, if you'd like to download a 3x4" hi-res
grayscale version, for advertising or placement in catalogs, you can download
it from http://members.aol.com/goldrushvp/eosa/eosacovr.tif.
If you have any questions, please feel free to e-mail me, and I'll respond
as quickly as possible.
Sincerely,
Mark Arsenault
President
Gold Rush Games
http://members.aol.com/goldrushg
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:47:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: Re: blocking the heavy hits
On 5 Feb 1999, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> "MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com> writes:
>
> MS> uhm... wait a moment. I have seen, both in comics and in other
> MS> genres/media, scenes where person A has tried to block person B's atatck
> MS> and falied miserably because person B's blow was too
> MS> powerful/strong/heavy. Happens in fantasy a lot.
>
> Person A failed his Block roll. Happens a lot the other way, too, both in
> fiction and real life.
Yeah, I can buy that. I also realized that was the answer after typing
this.
>
> MS> As a side note, I remember "The Wierd", where Batman blocked Superman's
> MS> blow and broke both forearms in the process. How do you model that? A
> MS> failed block? Yet he didn't take full damage from the attack.
>
> Because Superman did not use his full strength.
That I don't buy. You can't just keep saying that for *every* example.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"...Nothing is a coincidence if it happens to bolster the conclusions we
already seek. This is how we professionals discover the messages hidden in
seemingly disparate objects or events."
James Finn Garner
------------------------------
Date: 5 Feb 99 16:34:12 MST
From: ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: Unity in Nerd Culture [was GenCon 99] ]]
> >>A hobby only lasts as long as it attracts adherents from each new
> >>generation. Wargaming started with HG Well's 'Little Wars,' it
> lasted
> >>what, a century? Quite an illustrius history, with a very noble
> begining
> >>(The idea of 'Little Wars' was that governments could simulate wars
> >>rather than fighting them). We killed it. Bunch of ignorant punk
> kids
> >>playing a lame 1:1 scale game with no historical merit...
> >>
> >>Now it's our turn.
>
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't some of the most popular computer
> games of our day wargames? Wargames haven't passed away--they've
> instead passed into a new form where the computer takes over the messy
> work of calculating damage, combat results, movement points spent,
> fatigue levels, and so on.
So, once CCGs have driven the last nail into the coffin of 'paper and
pencil' RPGs, we can look forward to playing endles variations of
Ultima On-line?
I will try to take comfort in that thought....
Nope, can't do it. Thanks for the encouraging words though. ;)
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:49:20 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Character: Gandalf The White
At 04:41 PM 2/5/99 -0600, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Scott Nolan wrote:
>
>> 362 Package,"Narya The Ring of Fire", IIF,0 END Persistent
>> (13) KS: Fire Magic 20-
>> (108) 10D6 Aid, "To VPP", Use Risks Drawing Sauron's Attention,
>> Extra Time (1 turn), Continuous, Uncontrolled
>> Only for Fire Magic or to bring Courage and Strength
>
>I don't think anyone commented on this before, but: is 'Use risks drawing
>Sauron's attention' really a limitation, or does Sauron just have the
>power 'Sense Ring Use' with a metric buttload of Telescopic etc.? I'd be
>inclined to say the latter...
That'd be reasonable. As with most things, there's more than one
way to do it. But since all the Rings of Power stopped working when
the One was destroyed, I chose to make this a limitation of the
individual ring.
>> (63) 3D6 Aid to Presence, fade rate: per day, Usable By Others,
>> doesn't lose power, usable at range, x16 # Of Targets
>
>Er...doesn't lose power? What does this mean? (Sorry if this got brought
>up before, I may have missed it...)
Under "Usable By Others" (HSR p. 98), UBO is a +1/4 advantage if the
caster loses the power when used by others, a +1/2 advantage if they
can use the power at the same time.
This means that Narya's wearer (Gandalf) can use the Aid, as well
as those people around him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(What like a bullet can undeceive!)
But now they lie low,
While over them the swallows skim,
And all is hushed at Shiloh.
Herman Melville, Shiloh, A Requiem (April 1862)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:00:28 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
>At 01:40 PM 2/5/99 -0800, Filksinger wrote:
>
<snip>
>Note that Filk never said to give Cyke-like heros straight
>Damage Reduction. It only came into play when the blow
>would otherwise have been a fatal one. That seems to
>me to be an excellent way to model the SFX of "Glancing
>Blow from Massive Fist".
>
>The guy with this power would still be best advised not
>to take on the Hulk, but if the situation or story demanded
>the confrontation, this power would land him in the hospital,
>not the morgue.
Exactly. The comics are full of characters who have little or no defenses
save speed and staying at a distance. Such characters work in comic books,
but sooner or later they will be hit with the thrown car, fragmentation
grenade, falling building, etc. The only thing I was trying to simulate is
the genre convention that "if the superhero gets tagged by an obviously
lethal attack, he somehow barely avoids death."
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 99 23:35:22
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Character: Gandalf The White
On Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:41:12 -0600 (CST), Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Scott Nolan wrote:
>
>> 362 Package,"Narya The Ring of Fire", IIF,0 END Persistent
>> (13) KS: Fire Magic 20-
>> (108) 10D6 Aid, "To VPP", Use Risks Drawing Sauron's Attention,
>> Extra Time (1 turn), Continuous, Uncontrolled
>> Only for Fire Magic or to bring Courage and Strength
>
>I don't think anyone commented on this before, but: is 'Use risks drawing
>Sauron's attention' really a limitation, or does Sauron just have the
>power 'Sense Ring Use' with a metric buttload of Telescopic etc.? I'd be
>inclined to say the latter...
Well, using the Ring does tend to focus his interest on you, which is a
trifle worrying. IIRC in MERP, there was a table published about using
magic whereby *any* magic stood a chance of his or a major flunkie's
attention, and the sort of investigator he would send. Besides which, I
would suggest that drawing his attention *is* a disadvantage, and thus
worth points.
>> (63) 3D6 Aid to Presence, fade rate: per day, Usable By Others,
>> doesn't lose power, usable at range, x16 # Of Targets
>
>Er...doesn't lose power? What does this mean? (Sorry if this got brought
>up before, I may have missed it...)
>
>Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
>Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
>
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: 5 Feb 99 16:22:10 MST
From: ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: Multipower Questions]]
> > A Multipower with 2xEND on one slot, Act 14- on another, 8chgs on a third,
> > and OIF on the last, has a 1/2 limitation on each slot, but the Reserve
> > gets no bonus. Why? Because they're /different/ limitations.
>
> As I've mentioned before, some GMs allow the players to stick a 'Variable
> Limitation' on the MP reserve,
Something I don't consider unreasonable myself, though you do have to
be very careful what limitations go into it...
> What I'm curious to hear about from Rat is how one would get a Multipower
> with X powers, that can be used 4 times. Not each power 4 times...but the
> Multipower used 4 times, with any combination of slots desired.
> 50 pt Multipower, 4 charges (-1) 25 points
> Ultra Power A (4 charges) 2 points
> Ultra Power B (4 charges) 2 points
This, is exactly how you'd do it. Each slot in this construct has
a limitation 'not useable once the Multipower has been used 4 times.'
since they both have the same limitation, it can be applied to the
Reserve. The Multipower itself, can be used a total of 4 times.
If you don't put the Limitation on the Reserve, you actually have
two /diferent/ limitations, one on each slot: 'Not useable after Power
A has been used 4 times' (on slot A) and 'Not useable after Power B
has been used 4 times' (on slot B).
This interpretation works even under a tight constructionist view like
Rats. You just have to realize that calling two different limitations
'4 charges' doesn't make them the /same/ limitation.
Semantics? Sure! But, it makes the rule make /sense/.
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------------------------------
Date: 5 Feb 99 17:12:13 MST
From: ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: Limitations on Multipowers]]
> > >I would say you're wrong on this one Rat.
> > >You lose 1d6 per hex you fill. An EB that is spread one die is exactly
> > >like an AoE: Hex; selective. He'd have to roll to hit each focus.
> >
> > That's my take on it; if you cram a whole bunch of people into a hex, I
let
> > you try to hit each of them too.
>
>
> I don't remember the actual rule. But I think -1d per hex, but -2 OCV
> per target after the first, would make more sense (jibing with Sweep,
> for instance).
I obviously stated this poorly. I meant, a -2 OCV for each target
beyond 1 that you're trying to hit. So, if you try to hit three guys
in the same hex, your OCV is -4, and you roll to hit each one at that
- -4 OCV...
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:49:38 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
From: Jesse Thomas <haerandir@hotmail.com>
>
>These are definitely ideas with merit. My only concern would be, what
>if you required all (or even just some) of the characters in your group
>to take these or similar powers? Would someone be put off the notion of
>playing their Longshot-style probability-manipulator because everyone
>else would be stealing his thunder? I've built a few characters along
>those lines, and they're fun to play, but only if that's "their thing",
>and not something everyone else can do... Of course, if you check with
>your players and no one cares, I say go for it.
Well, first of all, I'd typically go for only a bare minimum to be
recommended, much less required. If a character was low defense the most I
would go for is something like this: 25% Damage Reduction, BODY Only, only
if attack does more than 1x BODY after other defenses, plus 50% Damage
Reduction, only if attack does more than 2x BODY after other defenses, never
does less than 1 1/2x BODY. This would be strictly an emergency power,
simply to keep the character alive when he was otherwise doomed.
Even a character with low DEF who frequently gets into one on ones with
really tough guys, and comes back bruised and battered, but not defeated,
shouldn't buy too much of these powers.
If the player of the Longshot-type character is still upset, tell him that
these powers aren't "Luck", but are the character's skill at rolling with
the punch and getting partial cover _anywhere_.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:17:54 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Strengh Table ?!?! and falling system!!!
From: Black Bishop <BISHOP@bdc2.sirnet.it>
<snip>
>Ok now another one : Falling system allows an average superhuman to fall
>for hundreds of meters and stay alive !!
>It is wrong in my opinion so falling should be more lethal...
>Any advice ???
>Thank ya all!!
First, the HERO System assumes that you accelerate to a speed, then fall.
This causes you to travel farther in the same time than you would in real
life, so you hit the ground before accelerating to an appropriate speed
(and, incidentally, heroes have _less_ opportunity to catch you as you
fall). For correct speeds and distances, use the below:
Time in sec Velocity Distance fallen
1 5" 5 meters
2 10" 20 meters
3 15" 45 meters
4 20" 80 meters
5 25" 125 meters
6 30" 155 meters
7 30" 185 meters
8+ 30" 215 meters+30 meters per additional second
above 8.
For the first 5 meters, do 1d6/meter.
This gives correct distances fallen for a particular amount of time and or
distance. Note that this increases your damage more for shorter falls than
longer, and tampers with the HERO System as written barely at all.
If you want, add additional damage for falling on surfaces other than dirt,
up to +3d6 for concrete. Note that this makes a fall of 5 meters damaging
and, if you roll for hit location, potentially fatal to a normal man. This
increases the realism for falling considerably.
Filksinger
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #189
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