Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 193
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 1999 3:34 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #193
champ-l-digest Sunday, February 7 1999 Volume 01 : Number 193
In this issue:
Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
Re: blocking the heavy hits
Re: blocking the heavy hits
Re: [Re: The 3d6- system sucks!]
RE: jes' normal folks
Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
Re: [Re: Unity in Nerd Culture [was GenCon 99] ]]
Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
Re: blocking the heavy hits
RE: The 3d6- system sucks!
Re: blocking the heavy hits
Character: Gwaihir
RE: Normal Men as Superheroes
RE: Genre vs. Medium (Was Re: Normal Men as Superheroes)
Character: Imrahil
RE: Strengh Table ?!?! and falling system!!!
Re: Desolidification
Away From List For A While
Re: Character: Gollum
Re: Desolidification
Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
Re: Desolidification
Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
Re: The 3d6- system sucks!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:01:46 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@hotkey.net.au>
Subject: Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
in that case go for the bare minimum. extra negative body, body only dmg
reduction,
ect. then they'll still go squash, just not go too squishy.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jesse Thomas <haerandir@hotmail.com>
To: bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com&>
champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: Normal Men as Superheroes
>
>
>
>Filksinger wrote:
>
>>] >For starters: 50% Damage Reduction, Resistant, BODY Only, only when
>>] >target can avoid (-1/4); SFX Constant Active and Lucky Avoidance of
>>] Severe
>>] >Injury. This is to stimulate how these normal human heroes
>>] can manage to
>>] avoid
>>] >serious injury time and again. The blow grazed his head; he's
>>] >unconscious, but when he wakes up, he's only slightly
>>] bruised. He failed
>>] his "Dive
>>] >for Cover" roll, or didn't even attempt one, but he managed to get
>>] partial
>>] >cover before the grenade went off. The arrow went into his
>>] chest, but it
>>]
>>] >missed the lungs and heart and is easily removed. And so on.
>>]
>
>These are definitely ideas with merit. My only concern would be, what
>if you required all (or even just some) of the characters in your group
>to take these or similar powers? Would someone be put off the notion of
>playing their Longshot-style probability-manipulator because everyone
>else would be stealing his thunder? I've built a few characters along
>those lines, and they're fun to play, but only if that's "their thing",
>and not something everyone else can do... Of course, if you check with
>your players and no one cares, I say go for it.
>
>Jesse Thomas
>
>haerandir@hotmail.com
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:25:48 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@hotkey.net.au>
Subject: Re: blocking the heavy hits
- -----Original Message-----
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: blocking the heavy hits
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
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>"N" == Nuncheon <jeffj@io.com> writes:
>
>N> Er...but I think the point would be that if Person B wasn't as strong as
>N> they were, that the block would have worked. Also, there's no mechanism
>N> in HERO for making Blocks more difficult based on the strength of the
>N> attacker.
>
>Ask any student of Aikido, he'll tell you that the strength of an attacker
>is largely irrelevant to neutralizing his attack. Making Blocks more
>difficult based on the strength of the attacker is just plain wrong.
>
not so. it amkes a nice line, but if you're stong enough youn can break
out of things. also, we're talking class 100 strength here!
they're punching so hard the pavement is shattering beneath their feet. .
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:20:33 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@hotkey.net.au>
Subject: Re: blocking the heavy hits
- -----Original Message-----
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: blocking the heavy hits
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
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>"MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com> writes:
>
>>> Because Superman did not use his full strength.
>
>MS> That I don't buy. You can't just keep saying that for *every* example.
>
>Why not? When it is a consistent answer that works for every example,
>there has to be some merit in it.
again, tell that to rick jones.
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>--
>Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
>Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
>PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:27:47 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@hotkey.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Re: The 3d6- system sucks!]
mathemitically, it;'s a bellcurve really. that means the average
lies in the middle and extremes are tails, it would really be the reverse of
the double-as-increase system or near. it's
also highly invalid, but that's another post.
- -----Original Message-----
From: ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Re: The 3d6- system sucks!]
>
>> Its not neccessarily, its just that one tends to react less poorly to
>> way strength is set up than any other characteristic. What was missed in
>> the post about Intelligence is that +5 points of INT does NOT
neccessarily
>> make you smarter, it makes you quicker of thought and better of memory,
>> which changes to me at least how it feels. If you say that 10 INT is 100
>> IQ and 15 INT is 200 IQ (double the intelligence for the purposes of this
>> argument, IQ actually measures... how well you take IQ tests) then it
looks
>
>And, IQ is not nescisarily a linear measure, itself, either. How's it
>calculated, anyway?
>
>> godawful to say that you only get +1 to your roll. But if you say it
>> doubles your ability of recollection and how quickly you percieve and
>> respond mentally, it is less offensive.
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 18:47:48 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: RE: jes' normal folks
>>>Why bother? We've gone over this before. You insisted that normals can
>>>never buy Powers. We quite as firmly disagreed.
>>
>>I'm not sure what you mean when you use the term 'normal' if you think they
>>can have powers that are beyond the range of normal people then.
>
>I suspect he's refering to the powers-as-talents constructs...things that
>represent supernormal learned abilities or other theoretical non-powers that
>are still most easily simulated by modified powers, but that still leave the
>person an otherwise avowed normal human.
Yeah so I see from a previous post, I would honestly say this would still
be normal for them, but be careful with it (If you are trying to be as
believable as possible I would take a lot of the alleged abilities, for
example the stuff the creator of Aikido supposedly could do, with a block
of salt).
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:32:21 EST
From: ErolB1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
In a message dated 99-02-05 18:41:24 EST, filkhero@usa.net writes:
> >For example, in our current superhero game I'm a martial-artist/gadgeteer
> >named Cavalier who's a physically a normal human. But he's also a
Brilliant
> >Scientist (chemistry type) in his secret ID, and one of his gimicks is a
> >'special chemical treatment' of his costume's fabric that makes it 15 pt
> >armor. But it also has a weakness: The PD portion of the armor has the Lim
> >"only vs Body."
>
>
> Not bad, save that he is now unable to suffer even a cracked rib from a
blow
> that would wreck a Hundai.
Almost. He has only 2 pts of 'native' PD for a total of 17. A 'blow that would
wreck a Hundai' would be 16-17D6 - which Cav may or may not take BODY from.
Part of this is due to the sfx: The 'armor cloth due to super chemistry'
justifies higher defenses than a 'luck and combat skill' sfx would. Part of
this is due to my prejudice against characters with NCM spending *any* points
to raise PD/ED beyond what their STR/CON give them. And part of this is due to
my view that *any* BODY loss is a serious matter in a 4-color game. I play the
20 pt version of "Code vs Killing" as including a "Reluctance to do BODY."
Likewise I consider it a fairly serious matter if my character takes even one
point of BODY. A point of BODY takes about a week to heal for a normal human,
and this assumes that the character got the injury treated and is taking
things easy. It will also be noticable, leading to pesky questions concerning
how the character's Secret ID got hurt.
When a comicbook runs the genre convention "hero knocked out, bedraggled, and
captured by villain" I intrepret this in HERO terms as "hero KOed, probably
into option-land, but has not taken BODY." I only intrepret it as "hero has
taken BODY" if there's visible bandages or slings, or if there are words
(though balloons, speech balloons, or narrative comments) mentioning cracked
ribs, broken bones, internal injuries, etc.
YMMV
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:15:34 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@hotkey.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Re: Unity in Nerd Culture [was GenCon 99] ]]
- -----Original Message-----
From: ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Re: Unity in Nerd Culture [was GenCon 99] ]]
>> >>A hobby only lasts as long as it attracts adherents from each new
>> >>generation. Wargaming started with HG Well's 'Little Wars,' it
>> lasted
>> >>what, a century? Quite an illustrius history, with a very noble
>> begining
>> >>(The idea of 'Little Wars' was that governments could simulate wars
>> >>rather than fighting them). We killed it. Bunch of ignorant punk
>> kids
>> >>playing a lame 1:1 scale game with no historical merit...
>> >>
>> >>Now it's our turn.
>>
>>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't some of the most popular computer
>> games of our day wargames? Wargames haven't passed away--they've
>> instead passed into a new form where the computer takes over the messy
>> work of calculating damage, combat results, movement points spent,
>> fatigue levels, and so on.
>
>So, once CCGs have driven the last nail into the coffin of 'paper and
>pencil' RPGs, we can look forward to playing endles variations of
>Ultima On-line?
>
>I will try to take comfort in that thought....
>
>
>
>
>Nope, can't do it. Thanks for the encouraging words though. ;)
>
>
hey! if the 200+ strong roleplayers group i'm involved with in uol didn't
have an
unusually crappy webpage, i'd toss it brazenly at your feet. All
roleplaying, all the time,
better than most champs games iv'e seen- apart from how unlimtedly cool
champs is as a rule.
As it is, i'd mention
that tabletops aren't dead, this is not a repeat of the miniature thing, and
orpg's
wil EVENTUALLY be very enjoyable. straight from de mountain, aiyah.
____________________________________________________________________
>Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 18:56:44 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
>>>doc ock is a bad example. he's a freak really, and i'd say he's a perfect
>>>candidate for extra armor, ect.
>>
>>He's a fat scientist with extra arms, not anything extra. The fact that
>>they recently gave him combat armor does NOT mean he is anything special,
>>hes still a fat schlub scientist that has arms. Nothing in his
>>description, background or writeup in the OHOTMU even vaguely suggests he
>>has any other powers, rather the opposite.
> base your powers on the comics. he's been through a lot, he's tough,
>and it's a force-field, not armor. he survived a radoiactive blast,
He didnt used to HAVE that forcefield, the time I am referring to was in
1982, far before he had any such thing, and the Official Handbook of the
Marvel Universe plainly showed him to be below normal level of physical
ability. That is the basis of my statement on comics, and it stands,
Spidey hit him incredibly hard yet he was just worried by the attack... not
DEAD which he should have been by all rights (Spidey caught a bus a comic
earlier.. it wasnt easy but he did).
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 21:49:30 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
At 06:56 PM 2/6/1999 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>Spidey hit him incredibly hard yet he was just worried by the attack... not
>DEAD which he should have been by all rights (Spidey caught a bus a comic
>earlier.. it wasnt easy but he did).
My wife catches a bus every morning. What's the big deal? ;)
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:59:09 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: blocking the heavy hits
On 5 Feb 1999, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> "N" == Nuncheon <jeffj@io.com> writes:
>
> N> Er...but I think the point would be that if Person B wasn't as strong as
> N> they were, that the block would have worked. Also, there's no mechanism
> N> in HERO for making Blocks more difficult based on the strength of the
> N> attacker.
>
> Ask any student of Aikido, he'll tell you that the strength of an attacker
> is largely irrelevant to neutralizing his attack. Making Blocks more
> difficult based on the strength of the attacker is just plain wrong.
Strength is largely irrelevant mostly because there really isn't /that/
much human variance in strength. I have never seen an aikidoka attempt
(or even suggest that one /should/ attempt) blocking a car or a falling
telephone pole or anything of the sort. But these are the sort of impact
forces that would be associated with people of the strength found in
comic-book bricks.
> N> So, it's just as easy for Epee Guy to block a hit from another fencer as
> N> it is for him to block a strike from Conan and his mighty thews. (Assuming
> N> the fencer and Conan have equal OCVs).
>
> Assuming Epee Guy's epee is sufficiently strong to withstand being hit by
> Conan's blade, yes.
Ahh. But then again, there's no rule that I know of for breaking the
object used in a block. (If there were, the whole Batman scenario would
work just fine: Batman's arms are not strong enough to use to block
Superman's punch - so they broke.)
> N> Superman attacked Bats. He would have done a certain amount of damage
> N> (probably killing Batman), BUT Batman managed to block the blow. He broke
> N> both forearms,
>
> Then Batman did *NOT* Block the blow. If Batman had successfully Blocked
> the blow, he would have taken *NO* damage. Something else happened. My
> take is that he failed the Block roll. And because Superman would never
> use more than his casual Strength against Batman, all that happened was his
> arms were broken (special effect of a failed Block).
I think the point was that if Batman hadn't done what he did, he would
have been /dead/. Not just taking the same amount of damage to a
different hit location. Your scenario doesn't allow for that.
> I like my answer better than yours.
Good for you.
> Your way. Batman has 8PD and your 50% DR hack,
Pedantic point: not my 50% DR 'hack'. Someone elses.
> and figure 12 Body;
12? The guy's supposed to be at pretty much the pinnacle of human
potential. 12 BODY is ridiculously low for that...
> My way. Same values for everything except no DR. Superman fires off a
> casual Strength punch, 10d6.
Except we haven't verified that Supes was only using casual strength. No
matter how much you say 'he would never use more', even you have to admit
that it is completely up to the writer how much strength Supes is using.
Someone with access to the comicbook: how hard was he hitting?
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:11:19 -0500
From: "Warren E. Taylor" <wtaylor@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: The 3d6- system sucks!
> Why not? If X requires a STR roll (or other CHA roll), then it should
> require a roll, period. Saying, "It requires a roll, except you are
> too wimpy, you can't do it", or "It requires a roll, but you are too
> macho" is kludgey. It also leaves a too narrow difference between
> people "just X enough to have a chance" and "just not-X enough to
> fail".
If a TV repairman circa 1950s with Electronics skill and extensive knowledge
of vacuum tubes encounters one of the new flat screen TVs when a time warap
deposits it in his workshop, do you give him any chance in hell of
understanding it? Personally, I would not. This is an extreme example I
grant. Just because you have a skill and a roll, it does not mean the GM
should allow it. I think the STR roll example is the same way.
That said, in another letter you responded to someone saying you wanted the
roll to be 8+(CHA/3). Actually, I have experimented with exactly that. I
typically run fantasy and wanted to try opening the range up. It works fine.
In fact, I liked it a lot. I felt that it altered the relative value of
characteristics a little. Because DEX is opposed in the CV, it was not
really different. However, I gave STR additional DC based on a 3 divider as
well. This upped the damage compared to the BODY, which had no divisor to
balance against. Therefore, STR should have cost more. I did not charge
more, and combat was just a little more deadly. Oh well. I still liked it.
Warren
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:35:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: Re: blocking the heavy hits
On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
> > N> Er...but I think the point would be that if Person B wasn't as strong as
> > N> they were, that the block would have worked. Also, there's no mechanism
> > N> in HERO for making Blocks more difficult based on the strength of the
> > N> attacker.
> >
> > Ask any student of Aikido, he'll tell you that the strength of an attacker
> > is largely irrelevant to neutralizing his attack. Making Blocks more
> > difficult based on the strength of the attacker is just plain wrong.
>
> Strength is largely irrelevant mostly because there really isn't /that/
> much human variance in strength. I have never seen an aikidoka attempt
> (or even suggest that one /should/ attempt) blocking a car or a falling
> telephone pole or anything of the sort. But these are the sort of impact
> forces that would be associated with people of the strength found in
> comic-book bricks.
I saw someone try and stop a large stack of 36" - 42" diameter terra cotta
bowls from toppling. The force of the fall (which was only a few feet)
tossed the man away , split his lip and removed several teeth. There are
times when all the redirection skill in the world just ins't going to be
ablr to hack it.
> > N> So, it's just as easy for Epee Guy to block a hit from another fencer as
> > N> it is for him to block a strike from Conan and his mighty thews. (Assuming
> > N> the fencer and Conan have equal OCVs).
> >
> > Assuming Epee Guy's epee is sufficiently strong to withstand being hit by
> > Conan's blade, yes.
>
> Ahh. But then again, there's no rule that I know of for breaking the
> object used in a block. (If there were, the whole Batman scenario would
> work just fine: Batman's arms are not strong enough to use to block
> Superman's punch - so they broke.)
It has been pointed out that Fantasy Hero has an optional rule that lets
you determine weapon breakage from blocks.
> > and figure 12 Body;
>
> 12? The guy's supposed to be at pretty much the pinnacle of human
> potential. 12 BODY is ridiculously low for that...
I agree. Bats has more than 12 BODY. I'd figure it up around 15 or so.
> > My way. Same values for everything except no DR. Superman fires off a
> > casual Strength punch, 10d6.
>
> Except we haven't verified that Supes was only using casual strength. No
> matter how much you say 'he would never use more', even you have to admit
> that it is completely up to the writer how much strength Supes is using.
> Someone with access to the comicbook: how hard was he hitting?
Okay, Superman is possessed by a (uhm.. trying to remember) a
extra-dimensional something. He is fighting the Justice Leage and is
trashing them. I think Nucleon (right?) was there too. Anyway, Batman
manages to zap Supers with a length of power cable. Superman gives a yell
of pain and throws one arm back trying to smash Batman whith his forearm.
Bats buts up both forearms and blocks the blow from splattering him, but
has one forearm break. Note that Bat's didn't take any KB from the
shot... Anyway, one could say 'oh that was a reflex action, casual STR'
or you could say 'Supes was pissed full STR'. I don't buy that it was a
mere 10d6 casual STR slap.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I don't care where I go, as long as it ain't here..."
George Thorogood, "Gear Jammer"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 01:26:54 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Character: Gwaihir
GWAIHIR, LORD OF THE EAGLES
30 STR 5* * = Growth Figured In
13 DEX 9
15 CON 10
19 BODY 12*
15 INT 5
14 EGO 8
18 PRE 8
12 COM 1
5 PD 2
4 ED 1
4 SPD 17
10 REC 8
40 END 5
40 STUN 5*
Characteristics Cost: 96
12 +8 Telescopic Sense,Sight Group
66 24" Flight, x4 NonCombat, 1/2 END
20 3 LVLS Growth, Always On, 0 END Persistent
36 3D6 Killing Attack HTH, "Claws or Beak", Reduced Penetration
6 3 Levels: Dive (Move By)
10 2 Levels: Melee
3 Martial Dodge, Only with enough room to maneuver aerially
3 12- Contact: Gandalf
2 11- Contact: Radagast
1 8- Contact: Elrond
1 8- Contact: Galadriel
75 500 150-point Followers
7 Acrobatics 14-
11 Combat Piloting 16-
11 Navigation 15-
0 Lang: Eagles, native
3 Lang: Sindarin, fluent w/accent
3 Lang: Westron, fluent w/accent
2 Lang: Quenya, fluent w/accent
4 KS: Councils of the Wise 13-
6 AK: Eriador 15-
6 AK: Rhovanion 15-
10 AK: Misty Mountains 19-
Powers Cost: 298
Total Cost: 394
Base Points: 75
20 Distinctive Features, "Giant Eagle", not concealable, major
3 Watched, "Minions of Sauron", less powerful, harsh, appear 8
15 Physical Limitation, "No Hands", all the time, slightly
10 Psychological Limitation, "Opposition to Sauron", uncommon,
strong
10 Psychological Limitation, "Allied with Gandalf", uncommon,
strong
261 Big Bird Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 319
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 394
Gwaihir is the King of the giant eagles of Middle Earth, and has
the title Lord of all Birds. He is a descendant of Thorondor, Lord
of the Eagles of the Crissaegrim, who aided the eldar in the First
Age.
Gwaihir is a massive bird, with a wingspan of more than ten meters.
At some time prior to Third Age 2941, he befriended Gandalf when the
wizard cured him of a poison arrow, probably orcish. He served both
Gandalf and Radagast as friend and messenger and was friendly with
both Elrond and Galadriel.
In 2941, he and his followers rescued Gandalf and Thorin's dwarves, and
later led his people in a crucial role in the Battle of Five Armies. During
the War of the Ring, he served the Free People three times. First, he
rescued Gandalf from imprisonment in Orthanc. Second, he bore from
the peak of Celebdil after the wizard had been returned to life. Finally,
he rescued Frodo and Sam from the lava that flowed down the sides of
Orodruin after the destruction of the One Ring.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(What like a bullet can undeceive!)
But now they lie low,
While over them the swallows skim,
And all is hushed at Shiloh.
Herman Melville, Shiloh, A Requiem (April 1862)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:20:09 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: RE: Normal Men as Superheroes
From: Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin
> At 06:56 PM 2/6/1999 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote:
> >Spidey hit him incredibly hard yet he was just worried by
> the attack... not
> >DEAD which he should have been by all rights (Spidey
> caught a bus a comic
> >earlier.. it wasnt easy but he did).
>
> My wife catches a bus every morning. What's the big deal? ;)
I suddenly had this vision of newbies writing themselves up, and not
creating 200 pt characters, but 2,000.
"What does a 50 STR mean?"
"Barely enough to catch a bus, say."
"OK, I guess that gives me about a 100."
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:19:59 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: RE: Genre vs. Medium (Was Re: Normal Men as Superheroes)
From: thomas deja
>
>
> >From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
<snip>
>
> you know, Wayne, early on I said something to the effect that I give
> them opportunities to work things out for themselves, but
> that if they
> proceeded to ignore those opportunities, anddecided to face down the
> Massive Destructor regardless of their imbalance, they
> deserved to be
> squished. But I'm not going to squish a character until I give him
> several chances to avoid the squishing (and use both his brain and
> clever role-playing) in the process....and isn't
> role-playing, and not
> combat, what this game is all about? :)
I have just realized part of the reason for this argument. When I saw
this post, I suddenly realized that I agreed completely with Wayne, in
spite of the fact that I was the one that created the power that
started it all. While I cannot speak for everyone who agrees with me,
for myself, I was viewing Wayne's position entirely wrong.
Wayne, you are quite correct that if Eggshell Man decides to get in
front of Unstoppable Man, he deserves to get squished. This isn't just
genre, it is common sense. Absolutely, squish him. If his Psych Lims
and/or the situation forced him into the confrontation, well, that's
what happens sometimes. Happens in the comic books, too.
However, you might give him an inexpensive power, for which I
recommend highly limited Damage Reduction, solely for the purpose of
allowing him to end up in the hospital rather than the morgue. Just
so, when something eventually falls on our hero (he is doing dangerous
things, after all; that's why he's a hero), he, just like in the comic
books, somehow survives.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 02:31:14 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Character: Imrahil
IMRAHIL, PRINCE OF BELFALAS
16 STR 6
16 DEX 18
14 CON 8
14 BODY 8
14 INT 4
18 EGO 16
16 PRE 6
18 COM 4
8 PD 5
6 ED 3
5 SPD 34
10 REC 8
46 END 9
50 STUN 21
Characteristics Cost: 150
5 WF,Lances,Common Melee,Common Missile
32 4 Levels,all combat
3 Linguist
1 Lang: Westron,native,literacy
3 Lang: Adunaic,fluent w/accent,literacy
3 Lang: Sindarin,fluent w/accent,literacy
1 Lang: Harad,literacy
9 Bureaucratics 15-
7 Conversation 14-
3 Deduction 12-
9 High Society 15-
3 Navigation 11-
7 Oratory 14-
7 Persuasion 14-
7 Riding 14-
11 Tactics 16-
1 TF,Boats
3 Scholar
4 KS: Gondorian History 14-
3 KS: Dunedain History 13-
2 KS: The Pelargirean League 12-
6 KS: Politics of Gondor 16-
6 KS: Dunedain Religion 16-
4 KS: Elves 14-
8 AK: Belfalas 17-
6 AK: Gondor and Surroundings 15-
6 PS: Ship Captain 15-
5 14- Contact: Denethor
2 11- Contact: Faramir
1 8- Contact: Aragorn
1 8- Contact: Gandalf
5 Member of Aristocracy
15 Money, filthy rich
5 13- Fast Draw
10 2D6 Luck (the favor of Uinen)
20 Clairsentience,see future, No Conscious Control, 0 END
Powers Cost: 224
Total Cost: 374
Base Points: 75
10 Distinctive Features, "Well-known Face", concealable,minor
8 Watched, "Denethor", more powerful, noncombat influence,
mild, appear 8-
8 Watched, "Minions of Sauron", more powerful, harsh, appear 8-
15 Psychological Limitation, "Loyal to Denethor", common, strong
15 Psychological Limitation, "Protective of Belfalas",
common, strong
10 Public ID, "Prince of Dol Amroth"
10 Reputation, "Honest and Valiant" ,occur 11-
223 Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 299
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 374
Imrahil is the Twenty-Second Prince of Belfalas, and the leader
of Gondor's army during the War of the Ring. He is the second-most
powerful political figure in Gondor (after the Ruling Steward, and later
the King). He was related to Denethor and took over the interim government
of Minas Tirith between the death of Denethor and the crowning of Elessar.
During the war, he led Gondor's armies and distinguished himself at the
Pelennor Fields and at the Battle of the Morannon.
Born in Third Age 2943, he was with Aragorn when, as Thorongil, he
fought the Corsairs in a series of battles and then burned the Umbarean
fleet in 2980. Within just the next few years, Imrahil lost his father, his
brother Adrahil and his sister Finduilas. He was seventy-three years
old at the time of the War of the Ring (middle-aged for a pure dunedain).
During the war, in recognition of Imrahil's deeds and loyalty, Aragorn
greatly expanded his lands, making his line powerful indeed. Imrahil
died in Fourth Age 83, at the age of one hundred fifty-eight.
Imrahil was descended from Imrazor, the great Numenorean prince
who first founded the colonies that would, long centuries later, become
the kingdom of Gondor. Imrazor was favored of the maia Uinen, servant
of Ulmo and Lady of the Coasts, who protected all his line and their people.
Imrazor's brother Murazor was seduced by Sauron and became the Lord
of the Nazgul.
As patriarch of the line of Imrazor, Imrahil is occasionally given visions
of the future by Uinen. Similarly, it is his place to intercede with her on
behalf of his people.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(What like a bullet can undeceive!)
But now they lie low,
While over them the swallows skim,
And all is hushed at Shiloh.
Herman Melville, Shiloh, A Requiem (April 1862)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 01:08:04 -0600
From: hunsaker <hunsaker@mother.com>
Subject: RE: Strengh Table ?!?! and falling system!!!
Why not just use the KE=mgh rule, as the KE(kinetic energy) is what determines damage. Thus, falling damage is linear with height fallen(not counting wind resistance). You can determine what "terminal velocity" you will use, but use this formula. Thus, if you set a standard value, you can work with this. Say m(mass) is set as 100 kg, and g is already set, and with this mass, a body takes , say, 1 DC per meter fallen. Thus, falling one "inch" or 5 meters causes 5 DC, or 5d6(normal damage, not killing).
Then, you can factor in the mass of the person, just divide his mass by 100 kg, and use it as a multiple to the DC. Thus, a 200 kg character takes 10d6 per 5 meters(normal damage). Of course, such heavier characters are usually tougher, so they can take more of a hit, but this system is just the mathematical formula for falling in a constant gravitational field.
You could also modify the damage based on surface type hit. Just class them as very soft(water), soft(mud), normal(grassy field), hard(packed dirt) and very hard(concrete). So damage would be normal for normal, 1/2 damage for soft, 1/4 for very soft, +50% for hard and double for very hard.
The base damage can be modified if you find the 1 DC per meter too much, or too little. But this general formula would model the falling body.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 04:52:22 -0500 (EST)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: Re: Desolidification
" Anytime you think an idea is keen, think of it being used against you.
"
Oh I do I do trust me i do.
and I devise a defense immediately [:8)
Arcus
The Mayor of Munchkin City
Oh and Filksinger, what's wrong with writing yourself up with 2,000 pts.
[:8)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:25:59 EST
From: SteveL1979@aol.com
Subject: Away From List For A While
Guys, because I'm going to be in CA working with Hero and Last Unicorn for a
few weeks, I'll be unsubscribing for the rest of the month. Any questions or
suggestions re: the 5th Ed. should be sent to me directly, or saved until
March. Since we'll be going over final revisions during this time, this is
positively your LAST chance to bring something to my attention if you have
anything you'd like to say. :)
See you in March!
Steve Long
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:21:01 EST
From: ErolB1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Character: Gollum
In a message dated 99-02-06 15:11:18 EST, nolan@erols.com writes:
> GOLLUM, FORMER RING-BEARER
>
> 14 STR 4
I haven't been paying as much attention as I'd like to to your Middle Earth
posts, but this one just jumped out and bit me. 14 STR for Gollum??
Yes, Gollum (and Pippin and Merry) are unusually strong - *for Hobbits* But I
don't think that they're stronger than average for Humans. You've given
Faramir STR 16 (which I think is about right) and he and his men are all much
stronger than Gollum: "'Easy, easy!' said Frodo. 'He [Gollum] has no strength
to match you. Don't hurt him if you can help it. He'll be quieter if you
don't." (_The Two Towers_, Ch 6: The Forbidden Pool)
I'd give the average Hobbit STR 4-5, Frodo STR 5 (instead of the STR 10 you
gave him) and Bilbo STR 5 in his prime and STR 3 at the time of the War. I'd
give Gollum STR 8 or STR 10 at most. Likewise I'd give Merry and Pippin STR 8
prior to their meeting with the Ents, and STR 10 or so after the Ent-drink has
taken effect.
Erol K. Bayburt
Evil Genius for a Better Tomorrow
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:24:30 -0800
From: Jay P Hailey <jayphailey@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Desolidification
>When in desol, could a mentalist use his powers to effect people
> or would he have to by the +2 advantage, affects real world to do
>so?
I answered this before, But it bears repeating.
A mentalist without the Desolid power is vulnerable to counter attack by
non-mental means. Ergo to make a mentalist not subject to conventional
countyer attacks makes him much more effective in comabt. Ergo, yes, as a
balancer, he should take the "Affects Real World" Advantage, Except
spelled correctly.
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!>
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free excercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech..."
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------------------------------
Date: 07 Feb 1999 14:39:04 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
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"E" == ErolB1 <ErolB1@aol.com> writes:
E> Seems obvious to me that "irrational" here means "having to be stupid
E> about it."
As I just informed Mike, irrational and stupid are not synonyms.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ head.
------------------------------
Date: 07 Feb 1999 14:43:01 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Desolidification
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"cs" == chrisopher spoor <arcus@webtv.net> writes:
cs> could we make the assumption that a mentalist with desolid is dealing
cs> with the astral plane?
No. Desolidification makes a character insubstantial. It might have a
partial dimensional shift as a special effect, but that is a relatively
minor special effect. You want to affect something in the real world while
using Desolidification, you buy the +2 Advantage on it.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: 07 Feb 1999 14:37:58 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Normal Men as Superheroes
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"MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com> writes:
MS> Not all characters are Batman and not all characters have spiffy gadgets.
It was an example to demonstrate my point. Different characters would
attempt to resolve the situation by different means.
[...]
MS> Psych lims can make somone act irrationally. See page 123 of teh HSR.
MS> And 'irrational' actions could be considered 'stupid' by some. You
MS> can't expect everyone to live up to your idea of what is the correct
MS> corse of action.
And you cannot expect everyone with a Psych Lim to act stupidly because of
it. Stupidity and irrationality are not synonymous (though they might
appear to be the same thing to the uneducated).
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: 07 Feb 1999 14:49:31 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: The 3d6- system sucks!
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"WET" == Warren E Taylor <wtaylor@mindspring.com> writes:
WET> If a 4-year-old gets a 25% chance, a prepared grown man should _never_
WET> fail, much less a world-class weightlifter. The bell curve is nice,
WET> but it just doesn't do the job.
You forgot something: a properly prepared weightlifter would get upwards of
a +5 bonus to his Strength roll for his preparation. His 14- roll becomes
a 19- roll, which is impossible to fail on a 3d6 roll.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ returned to its special container and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #193
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Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 10:29 AM