Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 198
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 10:30 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #198
champ-l-digest Tuesday, February 9 1999 Volume 01 : Number 198
In this issue:
Character: The Lord of the Nazgul
Re: [Re: blocking the heavy hits]
Re: Multipower Question
Re: [Re: blocking the heavy hits]
Re: Pre-Crisis supers RPGs
Re: Character: The Lord of the Nazgul
Re: Death was Re: blocking the heavy hits
Re: Death was Re: blocking the heavy hits
Re: Character: The Lord of the Nazgul
Re: The 3d6- system sucks!
Re: Death was Re: blocking the heavy hits
Re: Multipower Questions
Re: The 3d6- system sucks!
Re: Pre-Crisis supers RPGs
Fantasy Spell Colleges
Re: The 3d6- system sucks!
Re: Mimic & Cosmic Pools
Re: <FHList> Fantasy Spell Colleges
Necromacy Limitation / Fantasy World - Revision
Re: Desolidification
Re: Character: The Lord of the Nazgul
Character: Meriadoc ("Merry') Brandybuck
Re: Multipower Questions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 12:47:27 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Character: The Lord of the Nazgul
THE LORD OF THE NAZGUL
18 STR 8
15 DEX 15
25 CON 30
25 BODY 30
18 INT 8
20 EGO 20
25/35 PRE 15
6 COM 2
10 PD 6
10 ED 5
5 SPD 25
12 REC 6
60 END 5
65 STUN 18
Characteristics Cost: 189
30 Full Unlife Support
24 50% Damage Reduction (PD), resistant, Only v. Men
24 50% Damage Reduction (ED), resistant, Only v. Men
2 3/3 Damage Resistance, Only v. Men
12 3D6 Luck, Only v. Men
6 10 Mental Defense
10 10 Power Defense
4 1 BODY Regeneration, per day
4 +2" Running
5 Infrared Vision
5 Ultraviolet Vision
3 +2 Telescopic Sense, Sight Group
3 Mental Awareness
10 Tracking Scent
14 Sense Magic, Discriminatory, +2 PER
22 "Aura of Fear", 4" Change Environment, 0 END
40 "Morgul Touch " - 2D6 Drain v. Stun,
fade rate: per 5 minutes, 0 END
97 Variable Power Pool (65-point pool),restricted type of powers,
can change powers as 0 phase, no skill roll required,
Extra Time (1 turn) Gestures, Incantation
9 16- Combat Sense
20 11- Danger Sense, able to sense, immediate vicinity
5 Defense Maneuver
11 16- Fast Draw
7 16- Contact: Sauron
6 15- Contact: Other Nazgul
40 5 Levels, all combat
6 WF: Lances, Whip, Common Melee, Common Missile
3 Bureaucratics 16-
3 Deduction 13-
5 High Society 17-
11 Interrogation 20-
9 Navigation 14-
3 Oratory 16-
9 Riding 15-
3 Shadowing 11-
11 Tactics 17-
3 Tracking 13-
1 TF, Flying Beasts
3 Linguist
1 Lang: Adunaic, native, literacy
5 Lang: Black Speech, imitate dialects, literacy
3 Lang: Westron, fluent w/accent, literacy
3 Lang: Haradrim, fluent w/accent, literacy
1 Lang: Quenya, literacy
3 Scholar
6 KS: Will of Sauron 17-
6 KS: Sorcery 17-
3 KS: Peoples of Middle-Earth 14-
2 KS: History of Middle-Earth 13-
3 Traveler
8 AK: Angmar 19-
5 AK: Mordor 16-
4 AK: Eriador 15-
4 AK: Rhovanion 15-
3 AK: Gondor 14-
2 AK: Numenor 13-
17 Package, "Ring of Power", OIF
(2) Mind Link w/Sauron, Only to Summon Nazgul
(8) 60/6 End Reserve for VPP
(7) +10 Presence
42 Package, "Morgul Knife", OAF
(15) 1D6+1 Killing Attack HTH, +1 Increased Stun Mult
(27) 4D6 Transform,"to servant wight", major, cumulative,
Knife Must Do Body Damage, 8- Activation, 0 END
22 Package, "Morangurth", OAF, STR Min 13
(16) 2 1/2D6 Killing Attack HTH
(6) 3 Levels,related group
Powers Cost: 666
Total Cost: 855
Base Points: 75
20 Distinctive Features, "Ringwraith", concealable, extreme
13 Watched, "Sauron", more powerful, noncombat influence,
harsh, appear 11-
8 Watched, "Other Nazgul", as powerful, harsh, appear 11-
10 Hunted, "The Wise", as powerful, harsh, appear 8-
25 Psychological Limitation, "Dominated by Sauron",
very common, total
20 Psychological Limitation, "Hatred of Free Peoples", common,
total
10 Public ID, "Witch-King of Angmar"
15 Reputation, "Evil Sorcerer", occur 11-, extreme reputation
5 Reputation, "Cannot be slain by man", occur 8-
15 Susceptibility, "Water", very common, effect is instant,1D6
5 Vulnerability, "Elven Weapons", uncommon, x1 1/2 body
10 Cannot Survive Desruction of the One Ring
624 MIB Bonus
Disadvantages Total: 780
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 855
The Lord of the Nazgul was the first and greatest of Sauron's
mortal servants to fall under the sway of the Rings of Power.
A Numenorean lord of the line of Elros, he had come to worship
Morgoth under the influence of Sauron, and had become
a powerful sorcerer and necromancer. The gift of the Ring
of Power sealed his fate, completely submerging his will to
that of his evil master and granting him immortality at the cost
of becoming a wraith.
He served his master as Warden of Dol Guldur in the Second
Age, but hid when his countrymen of Numenor came to take
Sauron in chains to their island. He returned to serve his master
during the War of the Last Alliance.
He rose again in Third Age 1300 to found the northern realm of
Angmar, in the guise of the Witch-King. His goal was to weaken
the crumbling dunedain realm of Arnor for Sauron. Arnor first split
into three squabbling nations and then finally crumbled. But the
Witch-King's forces were routed in Third Age 1975 at the Battle of
Fornost, and he was forced to flee to his master. It was on this
occasion that the elf Glorfindel spoke the prophetic words that
The Witch-King would not be slain by any man.
Twenty-five years later, in 2000, he led the assault on the Gondorian
city of Minas Ithil, which he then renamed Minas Morgul. This paved
the way for Sauron's return to power in Mordor. In 2043 and 2050,
he challenged Earnur, king of Gondor, to single combat. Earnur's
horse had fled from the Lord of the Nazgul in terror at the battle
of Fornost, and the king was shamed by it. In 2050, he came to
Minas Morgul to accept the challenge and was treacherously slain.
Around 3010, Sauron became aware, through Gollum, that the One
Ring had probably been found. The Lord of the Nazgul was sent to
lead the search for the Ring, and hunted Frodo from the Shire to
Rivendell. He nearly killed him at Weathertop (Amon Sul). During
the War of the Ring, he led the army that assaulted Minas Tirith.
Although the gates of the city were shattered, he was prevented
from entering by Gandalf and the timely arrival of the Rohirrim.
In addition to many others, the Lord of the Nazgul killed King Theoden
of Rohan on the Pelennor Fields, but he was himself slain by the
woman Eowyn and the hobbit Merry Brandybuck.
The Nazgul-king became invisible when he passed into unlife.
Not that he could not be perceived, merely that his own form was
forever after wreathed in shadow. Only someone perceiving him
through magic could see his own, terrible face.
Like his master, the Lord of the Nazgul was not immaterial.
He had a solid body that was able to suffer damage, but which
was immensely vital and hard to permanently damage. Also, like
all of the nine nazgul, he feared water, possibly because of the
power of Ulmo, the only Valar who never left Middle-Earth.
The Lord of the Nazgul has many names. The Black King, The
Witch King, The Morgul King, The Morgul Lord, The Lord of the
Nine Riders, The King of the Nine Riders, The King of Minas Morgul,
The Black Rider, The Black Shadow, The Dwimmerlaik and the
High Nazgul. The word 'nazgul' is Black Speech for "Ring-wraith".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Iron Crown Enterprises excellent "Middle-Earth" series of gaming
supplements has The Lord of the Nazgul as Murazor, twin of the
Numenorean prince Imrazor, who founded the Gondorian
line of the Princes of Belfalas.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTES:
1) because of the name "wraith", it is tempting to create the
Nazgul-king as a spirit possessed of a body focus. But
Tolkien's characters (with the exception of the barrow-wight)
are uniformly solid. Even the valar had to assume bodies to
enter the world.
2) One could as well do without the "only to men" limitations
on his defenses. The prophecy did not create the power, and
these limitations are merely intended to simulate, not to describe.
3) The Lord of the Nazgul could be said to have followers in the form
of the armies he lead, but in reality (except when he was the Witch-King
of Angmar), these are more properly Sauron's followers.
4) The powers of the VPP are limited to non-flashy, dread-inducing
spells for the most part. A subtle mind-control or summoning would
be very appropriate. Energy Blast or Growth would not.
5) The Morgul-Knife, if it cuts a victim, may sometimes have a sliver
break off and stay in the wound. If it reaches the heart, the victim
dies and is reborn as an undead servant of the nazgul.
6) The sword Morangurth (Black-iron-death) is my own supposition.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(What like a bullet can undeceive!)
But now they lie low,
While over them the swallows skim,
And all is hushed at Shiloh.
Herman Melville, Shiloh, A Requiem (April 1862)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 10:51:54 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [Re: blocking the heavy hits]
Filksinger wrote:
>
> From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
>
> >
> >To this I have a knee-jerk reaction against. Strength matters almost
> >nothing when it comes to neutralizing an attack.
>
> Ever work with children in Aikido? If you had, you would know that is only
> partially true. Additionally, that assumes that everyone who tries a Block
> maneuver in Champions knows how to properly negate the attack without
> oppposing the attack with force. Such people would be unable to perform a
> Block against a truly massive attack, or, alternately, would take a penalty
> due to the need to use maneuvers that they are less familiar with than the
> "put your arm in the way" sort of Block.
My two cents on Strength & Blocking:
I'm a 6'8" & 280 lbs. In karate, the blocks that are successful against me
tend
to be the types that do not use strength as the primary means of stopping the
blow. A greater strength does give you more options with blocking, but I
found that my arms tended to get more bruised if I used strength instead of
finesse for blocking. That would happen if I was sparring with someone who
weighed 300 or 100 pounds.
> Changing Block without changing combat in other ways would be unbalancing,
> because it would change the effectiveness of certain characters. Thus, it
> should be left alone in such places as a traditional superhero campaign.
Agreed there.
> However, if realism is desired, a Block just isn't as effective when the
> attacker has 20 times your STR.
Depends on the block. I would say the weaker character could still get out of
the way of the blow and set up for a counter strike.
Maybe we should just rename Block to Counter?
- -Mark Lemming
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 99 20:06:24
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Multipower Question
On Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:52:30 -0500 (EST), Michael Surbrook wrote:
>Suppose I have an attack that is Continous and Uncontrolled. It is an
>ultra slot in a multipower. If I activate that power and then switch
>slots, that power would turn off, right? or does the fact that it is
>Continous and Uncontrolled mean that it keeps running?
If it's Uncontrolled then I think it would hang around.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:59:21 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: blocking the heavy hits]
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
<snip>
>Depends on the block. I would say the weaker character could still get out
of
>the way of the blow and set up for a counter strike.
>
>Maybe we should just rename Block to Counter?
Yes, that should definitely be done.
However, if trying for authenticity, having less STR does reduce options,
and STR is still part of most counters, even if it is a less important one.
In cases where you want authenticity above all, you need a rule making truly
massive STRs at least reduce the chances of a Counter.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:54:25 -0500
From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pre-Crisis supers RPGs
Message text written by Damon:
>Herozine's "Legion of Super RPG's" list a couple of games I've seen to
reference to anywhere else: SUPERSURGE from Merrymeeting Games, and HEROIC
DO-GOODERS AND DASTARDLY DEED-DOERS, publisher unknown. Both these games
are linked from the Legion page, and both the links are dead.<
I can tell you a little about Supersurge. A couple years ago I stumbled
across the web page for this game. I think it may have been called Surge
at that point, but Supersurge was on the way. Anyway, I talked to the
author a little bit via email. Apparantly he was looking for beta testers,
but here's the catch: you had to "register" to get a beta ( ! ) copy,
which meant pay him money. This was apparantly inspired by the shareware
concept in software, but was much worse because you didn't even get to see
an evaluation copy before you decided to help with the testing. I can't
remember if there was going to be any benefit later on, like
discounted/free copies of the final product--I don't think there were any
benefits, but it's such an absurd policy that it makes me doubt myself.
I recall being very interested in Supersurge, so there must have been some
encouraging words about it on the site. I don't remember anything about
the system, though. I also can't remember if this was going to be a "real"
paper RPG or if it was only going to be published via the web. Anyway, I'm
confident that the ludicrous idea of asking people to pay just to help you
test your system is probably what killed this project. I can remember
telling the author repeatedly to reconsider this, but he seemed to think it
was a great idea.
By the way, there is a history of failed superhero games in the Collectible
Card Game realm as well, if you've got any interest in that at all (I tried
almost all of them I could find, just because of the genre). I can give
you a little history on that too if you're interested. I'll go ahead and
say that Wildstorms was by far the best superhero CCG that I ever came
across--quite innovative even compared to the CCG industry as a whole--and
it's a travesty that it has died while the Overpower game (simplistic to
the point of insulting...one step above Go Fish or Old Maid) is still
kicking. Wildstorms had a big and loyal following until they released an
expansion in which all of the new characters were much more powerful than
in any expansion before it, basically making all your old cards too wimpy
to use if you ever wanted to win. After that expansion hit the stores,
many players stormed away in disgust, never to return, and the game died
soon afterward. Trivia: Matt Forbeck, one of the two main people behind
Wildstorms, is now a bigwig at Pinnacle Entertainment, makers of the
popular Deadlands RPG among other things.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:28:34 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Character: The Lord of the Nazgul
On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Scott Nolan wrote:
> 42 Package, "Morgul Knife", OAF
> (15) 1D6+1 Killing Attack HTH, +1 Increased Stun Mult
> (27) 4D6 Transform,"to servant wight", major, cumulative,
> Knife Must Do Body Damage, 8- Activation, 0 END
> 5) The Morgul-Knife, if it cuts a victim, may sometimes have a sliver
> break off and stay in the wound. If it reaches the heart, the victim
> dies and is reborn as an undead servant of the nazgul.
Hmm. The Morgul-knife seems almost right, but not quite...I think the
Transform needs to be tweaked a bit. It's cumulative now, which would
mean that the best way to Transform someone would be to stab them
repeatedly with the knife - it doesn't really reflect the slow, insidious
nature of the thing.
I would suggest a small 0 End continuous uncontrolled Transform attack -
maybe only a pip or so. Take a limitation on it (Extra Time?) to reflect
the fact that it happens far less often than once a phase - I don't
remember how many days it was from Weathertop to Rivendell, but Frodo
survived the journey (barely?), so it should be figurable from
there...it'll probably be once a day or so. The common method of stopping
it isn't really common, but with GM permission that's not an issue. The
one problem is that you can't really heal the BODY of the Transform,
and there's no all-or-nothing way of reversing it either. (Unless you
count destruction of the Ring...) Again, GM fiat must be employed.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:56:23 -0500
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
Subject: Re: Death was Re: blocking the heavy hits
...
It gets ugly if a brick breaks out of mind control and
> you misjudged how far he can jump. I was basically normal, 5pd wearing an
> armored costume 10pd 7pt damage resistance. for some odd reason the brick
had
> gone enraged. He haymakered ,
....
<<Umm... can you haymaker when enraged ? Doesn't it have to be your most
common attack ?>>
According to the BBB it is "the most well known or most often used attack",
but many GM's I know have a house rule that has the character using their
most powerful attack.
Lisa Hartjes
Lead Developer, The Crimson Covenant
beren@unforgettable.com
http://roswell.fortunecity.com/daniken/79
ICQ: Berengiere (9062561)
If the GM smiles, run. If she laughs, it's too late...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:37:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: Death was Re: blocking the heavy hits
> From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
> ...
> It gets ugly if a brick breaks out of mind control and
> > you misjudged how far he can jump. I was basically normal, 5pd wearing an
> > armored costume 10pd 7pt damage resistance. for some odd reason the brick
> had
> > gone enraged. He haymakered ,
> ....
>
> <<Umm... can you haymaker when enraged ? Doesn't it have to be your most
> common attack ?>>
>
> According to the BBB it is "the most well known or most often used attack",
> but many GM's I know have a house rule that has the character using their
> most powerful attack.
>
Thanks Lisa. That's the way I remembered it. But one thing I've learned
from being on the list is to check the rulebooks before being too sure.
Curt Hicks
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 17:14:38 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Character: The Lord of the Nazgul
At 03:28 PM 2/9/99 -0600, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Scott Nolan wrote:
>
>> 42 Package, "Morgul Knife", OAF
>> (15) 1D6+1 Killing Attack HTH, +1 Increased Stun Mult
>> (27) 4D6 Transform,"to servant wight", major, cumulative,
>> Knife Must Do Body Damage, 8- Activation, 0 END
>
>> 5) The Morgul-Knife, if it cuts a victim, may sometimes have a sliver
>> break off and stay in the wound. If it reaches the heart, the victim
>> dies and is reborn as an undead servant of the nazgul.
>
>Hmm. The Morgul-knife seems almost right, but not quite...I think the
>Transform needs to be tweaked a bit. It's cumulative now, which would
>mean that the best way to Transform someone would be to stab them
>repeatedly with the knife - it doesn't really reflect the slow, insidious
>nature of the thing.
>
>I would suggest a small 0 End continuous uncontrolled Transform attack -
>maybe only a pip or so. Take a limitation on it (Extra Time?) to reflect
>the fact that it happens far less often than once a phase - I don't
>remember how many days it was from Weathertop to Rivendell, but Frodo
>survived the journey (barely?), so it should be figurable from
>there...it'll probably be once a day or so. The common method of stopping
>it isn't really common, but with GM permission that's not an issue. The
>one problem is that you can't really heal the BODY of the Transform,
>and there's no all-or-nothing way of reversing it either. (Unless you
>count destruction of the Ring...) Again, GM fiat must be employed.
That's good. I like that. I'll put it in the final version.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(What like a bullet can undeceive!)
But now they lie low,
While over them the swallows skim,
And all is hushed at Shiloh.
Herman Melville, Shiloh, A Requiem (April 1862)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: 09 Feb 1999 18:52:51 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: The 3d6- system sucks!
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"F" == Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> writes:
F> If I am claiming that the rules have a flaw, then how is it irrational to
F> say I want "no chance to fail" and point out that the rules mandate a chance
F> to fail? That is obviously part of the flaw.
This one is so simple... if there is no chance of failure, DON'T ROLL DICE.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ returned to its special container and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
Date: 09 Feb 1999 18:56:08 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Death was Re: blocking the heavy hits
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"LH" == Lisa Hartjes <beren@unforgettable.com> writes:
LH> According to the BBB it is "the most well known or most often used attack",
LH> but many GM's I know have a house rule that has the character using their
LH> most powerful attack.
Hmmm... methinks I am remembering a previous edition's wording of Berserk.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 15:18:01 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Multipower Questions
At 02:59 AM 2/6/99 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>>
>>>Even this doesn't help in one case; what happens once you hit the break
even
>>>or Advantage level?
>>
>>Then it doesn't Limit any more and you adjust the AP of the MP upwards.
>
>I'd rather have something more systematic that dealt with the issue all up
>and down the line, personally. Discontinuities are not a good thing from
>where I sit.
There's already a discontinuity at the same point on the Charges table;
the number of Charges doubles for every +1/4 or -1/2. Making this
clarification shouldn't really hurt things any.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:32:20 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: The 3d6- system sucks!
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
<snip>
>
>This one is so simple... if there is no chance of failure, DON'T ROLL DICE.
Which is A) completely arbitrary without a set guideline, and B) addresses a
"feature" of the present system that I stated was acceptable, without
addressing those which I said I found unacceptable.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 17:29:43 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Pre-Crisis supers RPGs
David Stallard wrote:
> By the way, there is a history of failed superhero games in the Collectible
> Card Game realm as well, if you've got any interest in that at all (I tried
> almost all of them I could find, just because of the genre). I can give
> you a little history on that too if you're interested.
I played around with Power Cardz. I used the first ~140? as ideas for
the various villains in a champions game I did, but in some of the sets I
got the numbers around 200? (Maybe 300) The game went for peanuts real quick,
but it got clear fast that there were some super rares that I would never
see. And
even though I could pick up a case for $5, I gave up quickly. The card game
was kind of amusing, but it had it's share of problems.
- -Mark
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:32:14 -0500
From: "dflacks" <dflacks@ican.net>
Subject: Fantasy Spell Colleges
Hello again.
Thanks once more to everyone who made suggestions for my Necromancy /
Necrourgy question.
I have another question. How usefull do you find Spell Colleges. In the
campaign world I envision, magic is no organized into formal schools. It is
generaly tought by a master to a single apprentice at a time, a few at best.
Also the way I have defined magic means that the spell limitiation vary with
the caster. The more limitations, the less proficent the caster is in that
spell.
There would not be a set of limitiation specific to each college. There are
a few standard limitations for all colleges, such as Requires skill roll,
but that is all.
Has anyone out there done away with the spell colleges successfully? Or
found a good alternative method? Right now I am looking at using a stripped
down set of 10 or so master colleges as a way to groups spells and have
knowledge skills, but without college specific limitations.
Any suggestions or comments chearfully accepted. Flames equally chearfully
ignored.
Daniel Flacks dflacks@ican.net
Give me ambiguity or give me something else
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 17:41:18 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: The 3d6- system sucks!
>F> If I am claiming that the rules have a flaw, then how is it irrational to
>F> say I want "no chance to fail" and point out that the rules mandate a
chance
>F> to fail? That is obviously part of the flaw.
>
>This one is so simple... if there is no chance of failure, DON'T ROLL DICE.
I gotta go with Slippery Jim on this one, the dice represent a random
event, with always a chance of failure or success, and if you dont want a
random result dont use randomizers. Honestly I cannot imagine an event
that is 100% guaranteed to work exactly as desired every time.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 15:06:57 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Mimic & Cosmic Pools
At 03:10 PM 2/8/99 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>"MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com> writes:
>
>>> What if a character with a mimic pool, tried to mimic a character with a
>>> cosmic power pool?
>
>MS> I'd say that the Mimic Pool can only copy the current powers that are
>MS> active in the Cosmic Power Pool.
>
>Seconded.
I'd go along with this as well (unless the SFX of the Cosmic VPP clearly
and strongly suggested otherwise).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 17:38:19 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: <FHList> Fantasy Spell Colleges
>I have another question. How usefull do you find Spell Colleges. In the
>campaign world I envision, magic is no organized into formal schools. It is
>generaly tought by a master to a single apprentice at a time, a few at best.
The only way I use spell colleges is for organizing types of spells for
easy research and for making NPC spellcasters fast (this guy is a
demonologist, this guy is a fire mage, etc). I dont have that organized
magic instruction in my world.
They aren't really colleges, just realms of knowlege, and the mages learn
from various groupings as needed. But it is handy to have necromantic
spells in one group (especially since most of the necromantic spells have
different limitations than other spells).
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:23:57 -0500
From: "dflacks" <dflacks@ican.net>
Subject: Necromacy Limitation / Fantasy World - Revision
> From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk>
>On Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:40:34 -0500, dflacks wrote:
>
>>Thanks to everyone who replied to my Necromancy question. I have been
>>suitably inspired and have come to a decision on how Necromancy will work
in
>
>Great stuff, but aren't your BODY/AP equivalences a little low? How
>about making it the sum, not the average? Otherwise the necromancer's
>going to have to have a very large stable.
>
>And the 0 END advantage is going to make those spells very expensive.
>qts
>
>Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
>
Quite right. After comparing my planned Necromancy limitations to those I
choose for secular magic (Wizardry, Alchemy, Bard spell songs, etc.) and
clerical magic I realized they were not balanced. Using the sum instead of
the average brings it in line with the others. So I will be using sum
instead of average.
As for the 0 END advantage, I am questioning that myself. Because of the
active point caps in the campaign, having the advantage reduces the
effectiveness of Necromancers. Necromancy is releated to Secular magic. A
secular mage powers his spells from the essence around him will a
Necromancer powers them from lifeforce torn from his victums. If the
secular mage must spend END even though the spell power comes from exterior
essence, then why should the Necromancer spend END for spells powered from
exterior life force? In order to keep the six types of magic in balance, I
think I will change my mind. Necromancy will have the standard Must cost
END limitations rather than the 0 END advantage.
It is for feedback like this that I e-mailed the list in the first place.
As for the suggestion made by several people that I use and END reserve for
Necromancy, I don't think so. In my campaign, Secular magic is powered by
individual END while Clerical magic comes from an END reserve. The END
reserve is one of the hallmarks of Clerical magic, and I do not want to give
it to any of the other types.
Thanks Again for your suggestions.
Daniel Flacks dflacks@ican.net
Give me ambiguity or give me something else
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:53:14 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Desolidification
>At 09:34 PM 2/8/1999 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>Desolid _isn't_ an expensive power for what it gives you, which is
>>invulnerability to a large number of attacks, with no top limit as to the
>>raw power, in addition to what adds up to a moderately useful movement
>>power. And all for 20 points.
>
>40 points. The minimum cost for Desolid is 40 points, which incidentally
>makes it -- at the base, minimum cost level -- the single most expensive
>Power in the game. (The next most expensive base-level Power is Spatial
>Awareness at 25 points; no others have a minimum cost above 20 points.)
Now compare it to what you get for that cost. The minimum cost isn't the
point; what you get for it is.
>
>>Simply put, allowing Desolid characters to attack out for no extra cost is
>>abusive. Holes in the Desolid so others can attack in are the way the power
>>cost is kept down to a dull roar.
>
>Where are you getting this? I have *no problem at all* with the fact that
>Desolid characters are affected by mental attacks by default; I totally
>approve of this "hole" that allows them to be attacked by solid characters.
> I have never said anything to suggest I felt otherwise.
>
>I completely support the need for a +2 ARW Advantage and certainly require
>it to be used by any Desolid character who wants to "attack out" using any
>Power that could not be used against him for an "attack in".
>
>My *only* problem with this entire situation was that I thought it make
>sense to treat the "hole" you refer to as a window that would allow the
>free exchange of fire in both directions (and only for mental powers, as
>I've said repeatedly), not some bizarre inverted Force Field that allowed
>outside attacks to freely penetrate, but blocked the same outgoing mental
>attack unless a +2 Advantage was applied.
And as I've said, make sense or not, it's still abusive; it still allows the
Desolid character to rule the battlefield in far too many situations because
there will be no one who can attack him in return.
>
>Filksinger is right: I am looking more at SFX and character concept than
>at mechanics. I don't think that's inappropriate. If you have to bend the
>SFX a little to make it fit the standard game mechanics, okay. If the SFX
>make perfect sense as described, but cannot be modeled in any reasonable
>fashion, you have to consider the possibility that the game mechanics are
>lacking something.
>
Or that the SFX are, by their nature, overpowered. There are things that
work in the comics because the writers chronically underutilize them but
would break a game very thoroughly.
>If you feel that the logical and sensible SFX of the Desolid power are
>going to create imbalance in your game, then simply disallow that power for
>your game. That is why the stop sign is there, folks.
Or, don't permit the situation to occur that makes it unbalanced. That's
what the current rule is there for.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 17:26:00 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Character: The Lord of the Nazgul
>> 5) The Morgul-Knife, if it cuts a victim, may sometimes have a sliver
>> break off and stay in the wound. If it reaches the heart, the victim
>> dies and is reborn as an undead servant of the nazgul.
I got the impression that this wasnt a special power of the knife, but an
effect of weapons, that the deadly nature of the knife was just its metal
and the evil aura that the Nazgul had. That a splinter broke off was just
damage the weapon sustained when it hit him (possibly due to the ring's
protection).
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 20:57:51 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Character: Meriadoc ("Merry') Brandybuck
MERIADOC "MERRY" BRANDYBUCK
10 STR 0
13 DEX 9
10 CON 0
8 BODY -4
12 INT 2
12 EGO 4
8/18 PRE -2
10 COM 0
4 PD 2
3 ED 1
3 SPD 7
6 REC 4
36 END 8
28 STUN 10
Characteristics Cost: 41
7 12 Mental Defense, Only v. Mind Control
7 +10 Presence, Only for Defense
2 WF, Swords, Bows
10 2 Levels: Ranged Combat
3 Animal Handler 11-
1 Navigation 8-
1 Stealth 8-
1 Survival 8-
1 Lang: Hobbitish, native, literacy
3 Lang: Westron, fluent w/accent, literacy (1-point similarity)
4 KS: Hobbitish History 13-
3 KS: Herb-Lore of the Shire 12-
6 AK: The Shire 15-
Powers Cost: 49
Total Cost: 90
Base Points: 75
5 Psychological Limitation, "Brave", uncommon, moderate
10 Psychological Limitation, "Loyal to Frodo", uncommon, strong
Disadvantages Total: 18
Experience Spent: 0
Total Points: 93
Born in Third Age 2982, Meriadoc, son of Saradoc is one of the
heroes of the War of the Ring. Thirty-six at the time of the War
(still a youth by hobbit standards), Merry at first accompanied
Frodo out of friendship, then became a member of the Fellowship
at Rivendell.
When the Fellowship was broken, Merry and his cousin Pippin
were captured by orcs, but escaped into Fangorn forest when the
orc-band was attacked by Rohirrim under Eomer. There, they
befriended Fangorn the Ent (Treebeard) and helped convince
them to launch their attack on Saruman at Orthanc. As a result
of drinking the Ent-draught, Merry and Pippin grew to be the
largest hobbits ever, a full four and half feet tall.
In Edoras, Merry became squire to King Theoden, but was
ordered to stay behind when the Rohirrim rode to war. Merry
secretly disobeyed the king and rode with Eowyn, who was
disguised as the man Dernhelm, and together they slew the
Lord of the Nazgul on the Pelennor Fields while defending
Theoden's body.
After the War, many honors were bestowed on Merry. He
was made a knight of Rohan. He led hobbit troops in the
battle of Bywater, and at the death of his father in Fourth Age
12, became the Master of Buckland. In Fourth Age 14, he
became a Counsellor to the North Kingdom.
Merry married Estella Bolger and became a scholar. He
wrote "Herb-Lore of the Shire", "The Reckoning of Years",
"Old Words and Names in the Shire" and other works. He
probably contributed to The Red Book of Westmarch. In Fourth
Age 64, he and Pippin resigned their posts and travelled south
to see Rohan and Gondor once more. They both died a few
years later in Gondor and were buried in the House of the
Kings.
Meriadoc was also known as Merry. In Rohan, he was called
Master Holbytla and Holdwine of the Shire by Theoden. In
Gondor he was Master Perian (holbytla and perian being the
Rohirric and Westron words for hobbit). "Merry" and "Meriadoc"
are Westron translations. In hobbitish they were originally
"Kali" and "Kalimac".
NOTES:
1) This is an attempt to model Merry at a point before coming to
Rohan, but after drinking the Ent-draught. In later years, one
could not only increase Merry's skills and knowledge set, but add
at least one combat skill level, several contacts and the perk
low nobility. Merry's strength of 10 is intended to reflect the size
and strength of the hobbit after drinking the Ent-draught.
2) The "only for defense" Presence represents the fact that Merry
faces up to danger extraodinarily well for such a small guy. I don't
know if -I- would stab the Lord of the Nazgul, even from behind!
3) Thanks to all the many people who pointed out that hobbits
were better at bows and slings than I had shown with Frodo.
I listened.
4) Merry's lack of disadvantages seem to justify his name.
5) Hobbitish is closely derived from Westron. Thus, I've
given it a 1-point similarity.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I waste him with my crossbow!"
Bob
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
nolan@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 15:19:39 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Multipower Questions
At 08:11 PM 2/8/99 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>"WS" == Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com> writes:
>
>WS> And that's a problem, since it's still more advantageous to have 16
>WS> charges on each slot than 16 charges on the pool as a whole...and there
>WS> are legitimate constructions that should be built each way.
>
>While I agree that they should be built that way, strictly by the book they
>are not legitimate. In one of its rare instances of saying you cannot do
>that, the BBB says you cannot do that.
Where?
(Note: Cite HSR page number, paragraph from top, and give a full quote
along with an explanation of why you think this says so.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
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