Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 2

Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 1998 2:14 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #2

champ-l-digest Thursday, October 29 1998 Volume 01 : Number 002



In this issue:

Re: YAT
Natural Disasters :)
Re: Natural Disasters :)
RE: Natural Disasters :)
Re: Natural Disasters :)
META: The List & Digests
Re: Natural Disasters :)
Re: Natural Disasters :)
Re: Natural Disasters :)
Re: Natural Disasters :)
something odder
Re: something odder
Re: Natural Disasters :)
Re: Natural Disasters :)
Re: something odder
Re: something odder
RE: something odder
Re: Natural Disasters :)
Re: something odder
Re: something odder
Re: something odder
Re: something odder
Re: something odder
Re: something odder
Re: something odder
Re: Intro
Re: Something Odd (was:Re: Enchanting Items in FH)
Re: something odder
FW: something odder
Odd Character:Help needed
Re: Natural Disasters :)
Re: Odd Character:Help needed
Re: Odd Character:Help needed
Re: something odder

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:40:11 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: YAT

At 12:25 PM 10/28/1998 -0500, GothGeek SysAdmin wrote:
>By popular request ( ok, one person ) all my test emails will have the
>subject YAT so you can just ignore them unless you are curious what my
>Rant-o-d-minute is.

Actually I find both helpful (the YAT Subject header, and the progress
reports).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:06:28 -0500
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
Subject: Natural Disasters :)

Talk about natural disasters got me thinking about their after effects, such
as diseases spread due to poor or no sanitation, contaminated water, and so
on. That in urn lead me to think about the really nasty stuff people can
catch.

Has anyone thought of the mechanics for the so-called flesh-eating disease?


Lisa Hartjes

beren@unforgettable.com
http://roswell.fortunecity.com/daniken/79
ICQ: Berengiere (9062561)

"Evil is only victorious when Good chooses not to win."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:29:12 -0600
From: "Michael Nunn" <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: Natural Disasters :)

>Talk about natural disasters got me thinking about their after effects,
such
>as diseases spread due to poor or no sanitation, contaminated water, and so
>on. That in urn lead me to think about the really nasty stuff people can
>catch.
>
>Has anyone thought of the mechanics for the so-called flesh-eating disease?


The simple answer would be a 1pip NND killing attack , (lim Once per day)
defense would be immunity to disease
It took around 2 weeks for the people to die, so it works out pretty close.

Now I am sure there is a more exact way but this is the quick and easy
answer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:21:30 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Natural Disasters :)

> >Has anyone thought of the mechanics for the so-called flesh-eating
> disease?
>
> The simple answer would be a 1pip NND killing attack , (lim Once per
> day)
> defense would be immunity to disease
> It took around 2 weeks for the people to die, so it works out pretty
> close.
>
Sure, aside from that I would check for hit location and mix in
a small drain with delayed effect and variable special effect. So, if
the hit location is on the head, you drain the COM, on the legs, you
drain DEX, on the chest you drain CON, that kind of thing. Remember,
it's a horrible death.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 12:41:56 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Natural Disasters :)

>>Has anyone thought of the mechanics for the so-called flesh-eating
disease?
>The simple answer would be a 1pip NND killing attack , (lim Once per day)
>defense would be immunity to disease
>It took around 2 weeks for the people to die, so it works out pretty close.


You should also toss in Sticky and maybe a bit of Area Effect, so that other
people can catch it.

The only problem is that this has to be Uncontrolled, and Uncontrolled has
to have a way of shutting it off, which would be the (I think?) non-existent
cure. That's a quibble, though, and none of this really comes up for the
actual disaster you want since it only applies if someone wants to buy the
disease as a power. So, nevermind (-;

JAJ, GP

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 12:51:16 -0800 (PST)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: META: The List & Digests

For those interested, digests are now working.

Subscribe by emailing to <champ-l-digest-request@sysabend.org> with
SUBSCRIBE as the body of the message.






==
=======================================
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
Keeper of the Champions / Hero System mailing
list. http://www.sysabend.org/champions
=======================================
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:26:23 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Natural Disasters :)

> Sure, aside from that I would check for hit location and mix in
>a small drain with delayed effect and variable special effect. So, if
>the hit location is on the head, you drain the COM, on the legs, you
>drain DEX, on the chest you drain CON, that kind of thing. Remember,
>it's a horrible death.


I would tend to think of all of that as special effect. After all, if you
shoot someone, those effects can happen to the victim, and these extra
effects aren't modeled in Hero. Or rather, they are modeled using a set of
optional rules, which could be modified slightly to deal with things like
the side effects of terminal diseases, whose primary effect is to, well,
kill you.

JAJ, GP

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:40:45 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: Natural Disasters :)

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I would assume it's a massive BDY drain linked to a Transform (healthy
flesh to easten-away, diseased flesh).....

"'I thought you loved stake-outs."
"Yeah--it's like camping with guns."
--Costas Amdolyr and Tammy Lauren, MARTIAL LAW
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE, Tom Deja's webpage
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Reply-To: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
To: "Hero System Listserv" <hero-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Natural Disasters :)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:06:28 -0500
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Talk about natural disasters got me thinking about their after effects, such
as diseases spread due to poor or no sanitation, contaminated water, and so
on. That in urn lead me to think about the really nasty stuff people can
catch.

Has anyone thought of the mechanics for the so-called flesh-eating disease?


Lisa Hartjes

beren@unforgettable.com
http://roswell.fortunecity.com/daniken/79
ICQ: Berengiere (9062561)

"Evil is only victorious when Good chooses not to win."


- --WebTV-Mail-1830101130-744--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:56:54 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Natural Disasters :)

From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>

>The only problem is that this has to be Uncontrolled, and Uncontrolled has
>to have a way of shutting it off, which would be the (I think?)
non-existent
>cure.

There's a cure. It responds to antibiotics, but poorly, so you have to catch
it early, or you may not save the victim.

Some newer antibiotics are showing more promise, but not everything cured
with antibiotics can be cured fast enough to save a victim of a particular
disease. Bubonic plague is another example.

Filksinger

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:18:29 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Natural Disasters :)

>I would assume it's a massive BDY drain linked to a Transform (healthy
>flesh to easten-away, diseased flesh).....


How about this:

6d6 (or whatever) RPKA, Area Effect (big enough for entire area the GM or
player wishes the epedemic to ultimately cover)
Limitation: Only to affect people as the disaster would naturally effect
them

In the case of the flesh-eating bacteria, you'd have to be exposed to it to
be affected at some point during the course of the disease. Then you would
slowly die from it. The game mechanics are like this: you center the attack
on the first carrier. Everyone in the area of effect is now technically dead
(well, if they'd be killed by the attack), but they won't actually die
unless they get exposed to the disease, and they won't die instantly. This
can also work for a nuclear bomb strike (everyone's dead, those at the outer
fringes get radiation poisoning instead, those who just saw the flash are
"just" blinded instead, and so on) and a variety of other disasters whose
most common effect is to kill or injure you.

"What about resistant defenses?" Well, really, the disease only needs to
kill normal people. We don't know what ultimate effects it would have on
someone with skin like steel. As for people with more normal armor, like
kevlar vests or the ever-popular plate mail: it should be bypassed by
special effect, which could allow the armor a limitation for being
Realistic. An advantage of doing this is that then, you don't need NND
Killing Attacks, which are, well, icky.

Of course, this is not how most people do these things, and would require
some re-tooling of campaigns. So...

6d6 (or whatever) Transform: Human to Human-affected-by-disaster, Area
Effect (big enough ...)

The person who is exposed to the disease will get a Susceptability to
Living, or Physical Limitation: Dying of Flesh-Eating Bacteria. The ones
that aren't are unaffected. The problem with Transform is that there should
be a way to return to your normal form, and I feel badly about it killing
you like this. That's why I like the Killing Attack.

Thirdly:

"Billions and Billions" of Followers, all with a lot of Shrinking and
possibly Desolidification: Affected by certain chemicals, can't penetrate
environmental seals...

Sorry.

JAJ, "I may have to create a 'tooled' world" Philosopher

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:54:05 -0500
From: Wingedwolf <wingedwolf@earthlink.net>
Subject: something odder

Does that mean that my 1d6 Transfer of a targets character points to my

personal experience points is LEGAL? WOW, can't wait to shock my
players
with
that one!

Kenn

> Ah, but there is nothing in the rules that states that points _have_
to
come
> from anywhere. After all, beginning heroes often have points come to
them
> out of the blue, with no one spending the points to create them.
>
> You might also note that, under the 4th Ed. rules, Transform can turn
> someone into something made with more points, and there is no rule
saying
> that the points have to come from anywhere.
>
> Alternately, you can use Summoning, with the SFX that the "Summoned"
being
> is the being you started with, increased in power to match what you
> "summoned".
>
> If you _really_ like doing this, then you could buy Duplication with
bizarre
> SFX and limitations, where your "duplicate" is someone else.:)
>
> Last but not least, what makes you think that the points weren't paid
for?
> Maybe it costs Galactus points to create every herald, or each herald
pays
> the points before leaving Galactus.
>
> Filksinger

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:30:52 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@usa.net>
Subject: Re: something odder

From: Wingedwolf <wingedwolf@earthlink.net>


>Does that mean that my 1d6 Transfer of a targets character points to my
>
>personal experience points is LEGAL? WOW, can't wait to shock my
>players
>with
>that one!


Not quite. _You_ have to get experience points from somewhere, and they
can't come directly from someone else. Transfers are temporary, as well.

However, the rules do not explicitly state that you cannot Transform
_someone else_ into something more powerful than themselves. Creating
superheroes can be done this way, for example, and could, conceivably, also
be done with Summon. However, neither power adds points to _you_, and both
require GM special approval, as they have magnifying glasses on them.

It could also be the SFX of replacing ultra-powerful followers.

Filksinger

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:18:50 -0500
From: Mathieu Roy <matroy@abacom.com>
Subject: Re: Natural Disasters :)

Filksinger wrote:

> From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
>
> >The only problem is that this has to be Uncontrolled, and Uncontrolled has
> >to have a way of shutting it off, which would be the (I think?)
> non-existent
> >cure.
>
> There's a cure. It responds to antibiotics, but poorly, so you have to catch
> it early, or you may not save the victim.
>
> Some newer antibiotics are showing more promise, but not everything cured
> with antibiotics can be cured fast enough to save a victim of a particular
> disease. Bubonic plague is another example.

Amputation can also be used in some cases, such as Quebec's current Premier. Of
course, that wouldn't qualify as a reasonable way to shut off the power in most
campaigns. =)

Mathieu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:34:00 -0500
From: "dflacks" <dflacks@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Natural Disasters :)

- -----Original Message-----
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
To: Hero System Listserv <hero-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Natural Disasters :)


>>>Has anyone thought of the mechanics for the so-called flesh-eating
>disease?
>>The simple answer would be a 1pip NND killing attack , (lim Once per day)
>>defense would be immunity to disease
>>It took around 2 weeks for the people to die, so it works out pretty
close.
>
>
>You should also toss in Sticky and maybe a bit of Area Effect, so that
other
>people can catch it.
>
>The only problem is that this has to be Uncontrolled, and Uncontrolled has
>to have a way of shutting it off, which would be the (I think?)
non-existent
>cure. That's a quibble, though, and none of this really comes up for the
>actual disaster you want since it only applies if someone wants to buy the
>disease as a power. So, nevermind (-;
>
>JAJ, GP
>
My understanding is a bit different, unless I am thinking of the wrong
disease. The inital symptoms are the same as a flu. Then the ifected part
of the body begins to rot away, for want of a more scientific term. The
desease is actually quite rapid. The leader of the Block Quebec party here
in canada, bouchard (sp?) was hospitalized with it and lost a leg within a
couple days.

Before the rotting starts, I believe it can be treated with antibiotics,
ect. but as most victims think it is just a cold or flu, they don't go for
help until the flesh eating begins. Once begon, the only method I am aware
of for treating it is to surgically remove the infected area. Physcialy
limiting if the infection is in the leg, deadly if the infection is
somewhere like in the head.

Such a disease would be gradual as well as uncontrolled. It can be stopped
by medication before it starts to rot and surgary afterwards. Regeneration
and AID would also stop the rotting.

I believe that varius medical treatments have been tried to stop the rot,
but I do not know if any of them worked. I believe they tried a few before
bouchard lost his leg.


Daniel Flacks dflacks@ican.net

Give me ambiguity or give me something else

------------------------------

Date: 28 Oct 1998 23:22:20 -500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: something odder


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"W" == Wingedwolf <wingedwolf@earthlink.net> writes:

W> Does that mean that my 1d6 Transfer of a targets character points to my
W> personal experience points is LEGAL? WOW, can't wait to shock my
W> players with that one!

Well, no. Experience points and character points have no intrinsic active
point cost -- you cannot buy them with experience points or character
points -- therefore cannot be adjusted.

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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.

------------------------------

Date: 28 Oct 1998 23:23:46 -500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: something odder

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"F" == Filksinger <filksinger@usa.net> writes:

F> However, the rules do not explicitly state that you cannot Transform
F> _someone else_ into something more powerful than themselves.

They used to, and they currently strongly advise against doing so. Giving
someone or something else the ability to use a Power is the purview of the
'Usable by Others' advantage and should not be 'duplicated' with other
powers.

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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:06:32 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: RE: something odder

From: Stainless Steel Rat
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> "F" == Filksinger <filksinger@usa.net> writes:
>
> F> However, the rules do not explicitly state
> that you cannot Transform
> F> _someone else_ into something more powerful
> than themselves.
>
> They used to, and they currently strongly advise
> against doing so.

In which rule book?

Other than that, I agree. That's why the power has a
Magnifying Glass.

Filksinger

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 98 11:27:44
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Natural Disasters :)

On Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:18:50 -0500, Mathieu Roy wrote:

>
>
>Filksinger wrote:
>
>> From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
>>
>> >The only problem is that this has to be Uncontrolled, and Uncontrolled has
>> >to have a way of shutting it off, which would be the (I think?)
>> non-existent
>> >cure.
>>
>> There's a cure. It responds to antibiotics, but poorly, so you have to catch
>> it early, or you may not save the victim.
>>
>> Some newer antibiotics are showing more promise, but not everything cured
>> with antibiotics can be cured fast enough to save a victim of a particular
>> disease. Bubonic plague is another example.
>
>Amputation can also be used in some cases, such as Quebec's current Premier.

You mean, at the neck level? :}

qts

Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:22:32 -0600
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: something odder

> F> However, the rules do not explicitly state that you cannot Transform
> F> _someone else_ into something more powerful than themselves.
>
> They used to, and they currently strongly advise against doing so. Giving
> someone or something else the ability to use a Power is the purview of the
> 'Usable by Others' advantage and should not be 'duplicated' with other
> powers.

They used to, but don't anymore as it is generally better to allow a
system to be more inclusive. And UBO is for a more temporary granting
of a power or two. Transform is for just that, transforming someone.
Possibly (semi) permanently. However, I'd say the method for turning
normals into new supers would best be handled by the "gamemaster's fiat"
mechanic.

- --

-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"

------------------------------

Date: 29 Oct 1998 10:25:48 -500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: something odder

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"TG" == Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu> writes:

TG> However, I'd say the method for turning normals into new supers would
TG> best be handled by the "gamemaster's fiat" mechanic.

Also known as the 'radiation accident' and the investiture of character
points.

I mean, if Transformation could be used routinely to add character points
to another character... try this on for size, a character with two powers:
Duplication and Transformation into something much more powerful. Each
duplicate uses the Transformation on the other.

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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:18:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: something odder

> to another character... try this on for size, a character with two
powers:
> Duplication and Transformation into something much more powerful.
Each
> duplicate uses the Transformation on the other.

and then your champions game quickly degenerates into
an episode of Calvin and Hobbes
==
Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:17:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: something odder

> TG> However, I'd say the method for turning normals into new supers would
> TG> best be handled by the "gamemaster's fiat" mechanic.

I'd call this a "Microscope Comment" on a power. It's a legitimate
use of transform that should only be allowed on a PC in very unusual games;
such as the 'Olympians' campaign. Or a 'War of the Beyonders' setting...
Otherwise GM's should feel free and be encouraged to limit or ban it's
usage.

- --
Rook WebRPG Town Hall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:29:08 -0600 (CST)
From: gilberg@ou.edu
Subject: Re: something odder

>TG> However, I'd say the method for turning normals into new supers would
>TG> best be handled by the "gamemaster's fiat" mechanic.
>
>Also known as the 'radiation accident' and the investiture of character
>points.

Correct. Though if you really wanted to make up some mechanic to
explain why all of those normals are now supers, I'd think using Transform,
with lots of add-ons of course, would be the way to go.

Personally, I find I need no mechanics justification to make a new NPC.

>I mean, if Transformation could be used routinely to add character points
>to another character... try this on for size, a character with two powers:
>Duplication and Transformation into something much more powerful. Each
>duplicate uses the Transformation on the other.

Hmmmm. But is Transforming your duplicate allowable? Even if so,
would any sane GM allow this? Any and all powers are by GM permission only,
no matter what the book says. GM's need to keep some controls over what is
and isn't allowed in a game.



-Tim Gilberg

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:37:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: something odder

On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Egyptoid wrote:

> > to another character... try this on for size, a character with two
> powers:
> > Duplication and Transformation into something much more powerful.
> Each
> > duplicate uses the Transformation on the other.
>
> and then your champions game quickly degenerates into
> an episode of Calvin and Hobbes

Heh... the Transmogifier for Champions... I like that.

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:11:42 -0800
From: "Capt. Spith" <cptspith@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: something odder

Filksinger wrote:
>
> From: Stainless Steel Rat
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > "F" == Filksinger <filksinger@usa.net> writes:
> >
> > F> However, the rules do not explicitly state that you cannot Transform
> > F> _someone else_ into something more powerful
> > than themselves.
> >
> > They used to, and they currently strongly advise
> > against doing so.

> In which rule book?
>
> Other than that, I agree. That's why the power has a
> Magnifying Glass.
>
> Filksinger

Okay, I can't be the only one to have seen this; in Champions III
(second printing), where transform is introduced as a new power, there
is an example of a 'beneficial' transform which gives people wings (10"
flight @ -1 lim for a value of 10 points), and reduces their SPD by 1.
The original write-up of transform, then, specifically states that you
cannot increase another character's value; benefits must be countered by
other limitations when using transform.

"The only limitation is that the transformed character may not be
worth more points that the target ."
-Champions III, second printing, 1984, page 34.

Now, this is from third edition rules, but since it is not
specifically addressed after that, I assume it still holds. The only
specific prohibition stated in 4th ed. is that you may not use it on
yourself.

- --
-Reverend Spith
"I used to be a heathen, but then I saw the Light. Now I'm a pagan"

- -Anonymous

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:43:32 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Intro

At 03:51 PM 10/26/98 +0000, you wrote:
>I don't know if a brief intro to the list is "form," but I'm going to assume
>that it is <g>.
>
>My name's Justin Eiler. I've been playing Champions (FH, actually) 4th
>ed. since the mid-eighties -- and still vastly prefer it to anything else on
>the market.
>
>OK, now my question. I'm trying to build a series of "sourcebook" pages
>for a world I'm working on -- fairly standard "Epic Fantasy" setting, with
>what I hope is enough of an interesting story line to keep my players
>happy. I'm currently working on a beastiary, but my skills with computer
>art are simply non-existent. Does anyone know of a good "image
>gallery," preferrably royalty-free, for the standard fantasy "monsters?
>
>Some of the more standard ones (dragons, unicorns, etc.) are no
>problem, but where in the world would I find an image for a stirge, or a
>manticore?
>
>Any suggestions or help greatly appreciated.
>
>
Well, if this is just for you and your players, I don't think anyone will
freak over royalties, especially if you charge no money.
That said, Hero Bestiary is well illustrated _AND_ lists where it got the
art, and much of it came from an archive. Let's see here (franticly
rummages around for book)
On the title page, it lists lots of artists and then says "a bibliography
for the Dover Publication art and copyright free art used in this product
can be found on the last page."
The Dover art is mainly from coloring books.
I don't know if any of this stuff is on the web, but if you have access to
a scanner, there are books of public domain art.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:07:06 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Something Odd (was:Re: Enchanting Items in FH)

At 04:52 PM 10/27/98 -0800, you wrote:
>From: Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
>
>
>>>this follower is varies from adventure to adventure. The 'bestowing of
>>>the power cosmic' is a special effect of acquiring a new follower....
>>
>>yes, i agree. but silver surfer kept his powers
>>when nova got hers. plus terrax, air-walker, etc
>>would all still have their powers except they've
>>been pasted in one form or another.
>
>
>Ah, but there is nothing in the rules that states that points _have_ to come
>from anywhere. After all, beginning heroes often have points come to them
>out of the blue, with no one spending the points to create them.
>
I always thought that beginning PCs got their points like this:
First, a mommy and a daddy decide to take a DNPC. They create this as
incompetent (a standard infant).
As time goes on, the parents buy down the point cost of the DNPC until,
finally, it is a competant normal and might even count as a sidekick for
mommy or daddy. Soon, the former DNPC heads off on its own, having been
bought off by it's parents. It might be a fifty point character now.
After several more years of apprenticeship or school, and lots of training,
the former DNPC is a 75 point character and is ready to become a PC.
Works for me.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:24:56 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: something odder

> "The only limitation is that the transformed character may not be
> worth more points that the target ."
> -Champions III, second printing, 1984, page 34.
>
> Now, this is from third edition rules, but since it is not
> specifically addressed after that, I assume it still holds. The only
> specific prohibition stated in 4th ed. is that you may not use it on
> yourself.
>

Now surely that can't be true. What if someone had never seen the first 3
editions, but bought the 4th edition? How would they know what had gone on
in earlier editions?

Guy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:32:32 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: FW: something odder

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Wawrow
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 1998 12:32 PM
> To: 'Brian Wong'
> Subject: RE: something odder
>
>
> I'd call this a "Microscope Comment" on a power. It's a
> legitimate
> use of transform that should only be allowed on a PC in very unusual
> games;
> such as the 'Olympians' campaign. Or a 'War of the Beyonders'
> setting...
> Otherwise GM's should feel free and be encouraged to limit or
> ban it's
> usage.
>
> [Brian Wawrow] How about a full STOP. I can't think of a single good
> reason to ever let a player do anything that so obviously abuses a
> loophole.
>
> This is what Aid is for. Allowing a character to be major transformed
> into the same character plus X character points is ridiculous. You'd
> only have to use it once to completely unbalance the game if you made
> X worth a zillion points. Major Transform Cumulative into a god, no
> thanks.
>
> If you want to crank up your players into Beyonders then use a GM's
> fiat and toss them an extra 10 000 points each and make them fight 20
> 000 point planet eating monsters
>
> Forgive my rant, but I think the whole concept of jacking your points
> through Major Transform is just silly.
>
> BRI

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:31:55 -0500
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campuscw.net>
Subject: Odd Character:Help needed

I've been totally stumped on how to work out this this character idea and
was hoping someone on the list could help. Here goes: The character is a
baby, as yet unborn. Its in the 8th month and already posseses a highly
developed mind and an impressive portfolio of psionic powers including
telepathy, powerful Mind Scan and teleportation abilites (it of course,
carries its mother along when it teleports). Its mother has some limited
psionics as well and is a fully indepentent being, quite aware of her
child's strange nature but not controlled by it in anyway. Just how would
you go about building this character, taking into account its current state.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:14:01 -0500
From: Mathieu Roy <matroy@abacom.com>
Subject: Re: Natural Disasters :)

qts wrote:

> >Amputation can also be used in some cases, such as Quebec's current Premier.
>
> You mean, at the neck level? :}

No, no, I said Quebec's Premier, not Canada's Prime Minister! =)

Mathieu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:31:22 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Odd Character:Help needed

Just buy the mother, don't buy the baby at all. Give her the disadvantage
"Pregnant", buy down her running, and so on. If you want to simulate the two
of them being able to act independantly, add up what there speeds are (say,
3 for the mother and 1 for the baby) and give her that speed score. The
baby, at this point in time, is primarily a special effect, though an odd
one.

Save up points, and when the baby is born either buy the mother as a
Duplicate of the baby (she's probably fewer points), and build the baby.
This requires a revision of the mother, but that shouldn't be too much of a
problem.

Or, you could buy Duplication, with a limitation to be "mental only", and
build the baby separately. Then buy off the limitation when the baby is
born.

JAJ, GP



>I've been totally stumped on how to work out this this character idea and
>was hoping someone on the list could help. Here goes: The character is a
>baby, as yet unborn. Its in the 8th month and already posseses a highly
>developed mind and an impressive portfolio of psionic powers including
>telepathy, powerful Mind Scan and teleportation abilites (it of course,
>carries its mother along when it teleports). Its mother has some limited
>psionics as well and is a fully indepentent being, quite aware of her
>child's strange nature but not controlled by it in anyway. Just how would
>you go about building this character, taking into account its current
state.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:31:39 -0500
From: Chuck Badger <wbandsis@westco.net>
Subject: Re: Odd Character:Help needed

Kim Foster wrote:
> I've been totally stumped on how to work out this this character idea and
> was hoping someone on the list could help. Here goes: The character is a
> baby, as yet unborn. Its in the 8th month and already posseses a highly
> developed mind and an impressive portfolio of psionic powers including
> telepathy, powerful Mind Scan and teleportation abilites (it of course,
> carries its mother along when it teleports). Its mother has some limited
> psionics as well and is a fully indepentent being, quite aware of her
> child's strange nature but not controlled by it in anyway. Just how would
> you go about building this character, taking into account its current state.

which is th pc? You could do up the adult as the "hero" and the baby as
a dependent/follower. I would definitely use the follower rules since
the baby is giving the mother abilities beyond her own.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:14:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: something odder

>>> duplicate uses the Transformation on the other.
>> and then your champions game quickly degenerates into
>> an episode of Calvin and Hobbes
> Heh... the Transmogrifier for Champions... I like it

or then there's the episode of Dexter's Lab where he's
got the Animal Morphing Device, and he and Dee-Dee keep
zapping each other ;)
==
Elliott aka Egyptoid
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------------------------------

End of champ-l-digest V1 #2
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