Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 213
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 2:14 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #213
champ-l-digest Tuesday, February 23 1999 Volume 01 : Number 213
In this issue:
Re: Is the list dead?
Re: 'unfathomable quantum power'
Re: Aberrant
Re: Robot PCs
Re: 'unfathomable quantum power'
Re: CHAR: Cybermen
RE: Robot PCs
Re: 'unfathomable quantum power'
Re: Robot PCs
Re: CHAR: Cybermen
Re: DunDraCon thoughts
Re: Robot PCs
RE: Robot PCs
Re: DunDraCon thoughts
Re: Aberrant
Re: CHAR: Cybermen
Re: DunDraCon thoughts
Re: CHAR: Cybermen
Re: DunDraCon thoughts
Re: Aberrant
Re: DunDraCon thoughts
If you don't see it, ask.
Re: Aberrant
Re: Aberrant
Re: Robot PCs
Re: Aberrant
WotanThor...
Attn Steve:Speaking of Dr. Who...
Re: Aberrant
falling damage guns should do... and physics comic style
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:06:16 EST
From: CptPatriot@aol.com
Subject: Re: Is the list dead?
In a message dated 2/20/99 11:21:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, WyldWsel@aol.com
writes:
<< Actually I have hit a bit of a snag trying to set up ECM/ECCM powers
for a SiFi game. >>
Use Suppress with a Skill Roll for the ECM systems and
either levels of Hard to Dispel with a Skill Roll or
Suppress "Suppress" for ECCM
Archie
Cptpatriot@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:28:38 -0800
From: Bryant Durrell <durrell@innocence.com>
Subject: Re: 'unfathomable quantum power'
On Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 12:40:22PM -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Curt Hicks wrote:
>
> >
> > > ... a normal human being to have the power of a god.
> > > ... the power to individually change the world,
> > > to hold the destiny of millions in their hands
> >
> > > ... beings of unfathomable quantum power.
> > > ... holds the potential to drastically change the world.
> > > .. the to ability level a city with your hands
> >
> > > ... Not only could an aberrant rob the corner jewelry store with
> > > impunity, she could take over half of South Africa and control
> > > worldwide diamond production with no one to stop her.
> >
> > >...an individual who can challenge a nation...
> >
> > So, what point level would we be talking about in the Hero System ?
>
> 1000? These guys sounds like that have some serious high-level attacks
> and defenses.
Sounds like something like that.
> > More interestingly, what are the ideal powers for 'drastically changing
> > the world' and 'holding the destiny of millions in your hands' ?
> >
> > Telepathy ? Mind Control ? Immortality ?
>
> 30d6 EB? 200" of Flight? The ability to create plauges or fire of
> thermonuclear blasts? To create rain in the Saraha?
10d6 Marketing Hype? *grin*
This is actually an interesting question in that it's not just about
power level. In the campaign I'm currently in (Carl Rigney's World
of the Four Hundred), the PCs are fairly powerful in the grand scheme
of things despite being teenagers who started at about 200-225 active
points. (OK, so we're up to 350-400 now...)
It's not so much that 9d6 of Emotions Only Mind Control is really
powerful as it is that there are only five or six known mentalists in
the world, and Carl doesn't allow high EGOs without a good excuse.
So each mentalist has a pretty big effect on things.
I think this is the way it should be in an emergent power campaign,
such as Aberrant -- when powers are new, nobody's figured out how to
handle them yet.
- --
Bryant Durrell [] durrell@innocence.com [] http://www.innocence.com/~durrell
[----------------------------------------------------------------------------]
"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations,
if you live near him." -- J. R. R. Tolkien
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:51:58 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Aberrant
>>Wayne Shaw wrote: That was pretty obvious from the advanced press. Trinity
>itself is pretty
>>much a varient superhero game, and it was obvious that when they were >sane
>the aberrants where much the same. Of course it strikes me as
>>pretty
>>depressing playing a bunch of people who, far as I can tell from the
>Trinity
>>history, _all_ went mad or died.
>
>
>
>
>I don't agree with him at all. I've played Trinity. It's nothing like a
>superhero game. The characters have psionics, which is completely different
>than being bitten by a radioactive spider. It's very much along the same
>genre as the WOD, just with a sci-fi spin, instead of the horror. It is
>still very political, with various psionic guilds vying for control of the
>known universe, each in keeping with their own psionic specialty.
Given the nature of the psions, the whole 'protecting against the Aberrents'
thing, and a number of other things, I think you've got a much narrower
definition of what constitutes a superhero game than some of us.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:27:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Robot PCs
David Stallard writes:
> One of my players is considering playing a Robot character. This idea
> started out as a generic Gadgeteer type, but now the character wants to be
> some sort of sentient machine that can repair/enhance itself to meet
> different situations. Essentially, this would still be a generic Gadgeteer
> but the gadgets would probably be OIF instead of OAF. Below are some
> thoughts/questions about this sort of PC...please let me know what you
> think!
>
> * Should this character be built as an automaton? I've never really made
> use of that section of the rules, so I'm only vaguely familiar with it, but
> it certainly seems to make sense.
I don't recommend it. Just assume that 'stun' corresponds to shaking up
delicate internal machinery (which might need to reboot or something), etc.
Its bad to have a character in a game who the GM can't defeat without killing
the character.
>
> * The player can't decide if he wants this to be like Inspector Gadget (he
> looks human but stuff sprouts out of his head, arms, and whatnot), or if it
> will actually look like a robot (metal body). I think this would mainly be
> special effect, but do you see any major differences in these two
> approaches? All I can see is that Armor might be better justified with a
> robot body, as well as a more valuable Distinctive Feature. If he chose
> the Inspector Gadget option, the character would still be entirely a
> machine--it would just have a human appearance except for the technology
> sprouting from various places.
It's just special effect and degree of distinctive features, though I might
suggest density increase for the more robotic body.
>
> * If the gadgets are OIF, I assume they couldn't be blown off during combat
> (we don't use hit location). Is that right?
Hm...I'm not sure I'd allow the character to take any sort of focus, since if
its rebuilding itself you presumably can't remove this ability without
dismantling the robot (i.e. to qualify for OIF, you have to be able to remove
it without killing the person using it; you also need to be able to remove it
outside of combat within about a turn, without a skill roll).
>
> * I can already see this character having an interesting relationship with
> Mechanon....
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:41:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: 'unfathomable quantum power'
On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Curt Hicks wrote:
> > From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
> >
> > 30d6 EB? 200" of Flight? The ability to create plauges or fire of
> > thermonuclear blasts? To create rain in the Saraha?
<Michael smites a few typo demons>
How about: "The ability to create plagues or fire off thermonuclear
blasts?"
> OK, you've got a 30D6 EB, defenses to match, 200" of flight and the other
> powers. What are you going to do with it ?
Take over a small third-world country? With powers like that you could
easly wreck most any military target, as well as destroy such items as
the Hoover Dam. You could carve your own rivers, chop up a small
mountain, changecoast lines and otherwise rework the face of the planet.
And the military would be hard pressed to track you down and stop you.
> Put another way, what's the best way to 'dominate the world' ?
> I'd submit that a telepath working behind the scenes would probably be more
> effective than an in-your-face overt type.
Massive amounts of money. As for a superpower, telepathy or mind control
work best.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"We're Americans -- with a capital 'A', huh? Do you know what that means?
Do you? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent
nation on Earth. We are the wretched refuse!"
John Winger (Bill Murray), from _Stripes_
------------------------------
Date: 22 Feb 1999 16:49:00 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Cybermen
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:21:35 -0500 (EST)
| CYBERMEN
*sigh*
And here I thought you were starting up with Dr. Who conversions.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ Earth, presumably from outer space.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:11:24 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Robot PCs
I'd be very careful about letting PC's take automaton powers. 'Takes no
Stun' combined with a decent DEF is a quick way to build someone who's
really hard to take down. Take a hard look at what kind of attacks your bad
guys use and make sure your PC's droid isn't invincible compared to the rest
of the PC's.
] One of my players is considering playing a Robot character. This idea
] started out as a generic Gadgeteer type, but now the
] character wants to be
] some sort of sentient machine that can repair/enhance itself to meet
] different situations. Essentially, this would still be a
] generic Gadgeteer
] but the gadgets would probably be OIF instead of OAF. Below are some
] thoughts/questions about this sort of PC...please let me know what you
] think!
]
] * Should this character be built as an automaton? I've never
] really made
] use of that section of the rules, so I'm only vaguely
] familiar with it, but
] it certainly seems to make sense.
]
] * The player can't decide if he wants this to be like
] Inspector Gadget (he
] looks human but stuff sprouts out of his head, arms, and
] whatnot), or if it
] will actually look like a robot (metal body). I think this
] would mainly be
] special effect, but do you see any major differences in these two
] approaches? All I can see is that Armor might be better
] justified with a
] robot body, as well as a more valuable Distinctive Feature.
] If he chose
] the Inspector Gadget option, the character would still be entirely a
] machine--it would just have a human appearance except for the
] technology
] sprouting from various places.
]
] * If the gadgets are OIF, I assume they couldn't be blown off
] during combat
] (we don't use hit location). Is that right?
]
] * I can already see this character having an interesting
] relationship with
] Mechanon....
]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:04:33 PST
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 'unfathomable quantum power'
Someone or other wrote:
>> So, what point level would we be talking about in the Hero System ?
>
>Shrug. It depends on whether the game mechanics match the verbiage,
and on
>what sort of capabilities that represents. Assuming people don't lob
nukes at
>you, an efficiently constructed 400 point character is essentially
unstoppable
>by mundanes.
Given White Wolf's track record, I would say that 2 different "starting
level" (and therefore theoretically equal) characters in a WW game could
easily differ by as much as 500 Hero System points. Furthermore, the
same character converted from WW to Hero by 2 different players might
produce a similar disparity in point values. White Wolf can be a little
vague. Not that that's neccessarily a bad thing. Like Paranoia, a good
Vampire session approached in the right manner can be a fun break from
GURPS or HeroSystem. I just wouldn't want to make a steady diet of
it...
>> More interestingly, what are the ideal powers for 'drastically
changing
>> the world' and 'holding the destiny of millions in your hands' ?
>>
>> Telepathy ? Mind Control ? Immortality ?
>
>Area effect cumulative major transform with enough area to cover the
planet.
>
Dang. Someone beat me to it. Only I was going to say, "VPP: Only for
Cumulative Major Transforms..." Or words to that effect.
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:15:01 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Robot PCs
At 12:27 PM 2/22/99 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>
>> * Should this character be built as an automaton? I've never really made
>> use of that section of the rules, so I'm only vaguely familiar with it, but
>> it certainly seems to make sense.
>
>I don't recommend it. Just assume that 'stun' corresponds to shaking up
>delicate internal machinery (which might need to reboot or something), etc.
>Its bad to have a character in a game who the GM can't defeat without killing
>the character.
The GM can just reduce the character to 0 BODY. The character won't
become "dead" until it reachines negative its normal BODY, just like
regular characters.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:57:35 EST
From: CptPatriot@aol.com
Subject: Re: CHAR: Cybermen
In a message dated 2/22/99 5:19:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ratinox@peorth.gweep.net writes:
<< *sigh*
And here I thought you were starting up with Dr. Who conversions. >>
I have the FASA Dr. Who RPG. I'll see what I can do about conversions for ya.
Archie
CptPatriot@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/cptpatriot
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:38:25 -0800
From: Scott Bennie <sbennie@dowco.com>
Subject: Re: DunDraCon thoughts
> Would you mind telling us, those that couldn't make it to DunDraCon, about
> the seminar presented by you and Aaron Allston? Any juicy bits would be
> appreciated.
Problem is that I rarely remember juicy bits out of a seminar I'm giving (I'm just
trying to get my message across, not look like a complete dork, and survive!). For
Gestalt, I tried to present the distinctiveness of the world and the unifying
concept. For Strike Force, Aaron described the breath of the work. Aaron did
mention a couple of things I hadn't heard before, such as the Governor being
involved in the origin of super-abilities to an extent not hinted at in the
original supplement. Beyond that, Aaron's plans are mostly those he describes on
the Hero Games web site.
> Any due date for the RTG DBZ game? Oh, and a Super-Saiyajin vs Cthulhu?
> The Big C looses Big Time!
This begs the question on whether *anyone* can beat them. Which quickly turns into
a religious debate.
> I read a note on Aaron's page that made it sound like Strike Force may
> several books - Blood, Circle etc.
I directed people to the Hero Games site (www.herogames.com) because Aaron
describes his plans in his own words there. The only new things I really got from
the seminar on Aaron's stuff was this was going to be a *long* term project, and
there'd be a lot of emphasis on campaign advice. Both of which makes me really
forward to them even more than I was before.
Oh, at the Hero Conference Bruce mentioned something called "Kazei Five" or
something like that which is due out soon. Anime fans made happy motions and
noises.
> White Wolf does superheroes... wonderful.
I feel the love. One does wonder when someone will come up with a *real* White
Wolf parody game. The ad copy for Abberent is more pretentious than a bad Watchman
clone. But ad copy is just ad copy, and WW has always had solid talent working for
them, and Abberent will certainly be worth taking a look.
Scott Bennie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:10:01 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Robot PCs
At 08:17 PM 2/22/99 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Robot PCs
>Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l-digest@sysabend.org>
>
>One of my players is considering playing a Robot character. This idea
>started out as a generic Gadgeteer type, but now the character wants to be
>some sort of sentient machine that can repair/enhance itself to meet
>different situations. Essentially, this would still be a generic Gadgeteer
>but the gadgets would probably be OIF instead of OAF. Below are some
>thoughts/questions about this sort of PC...please let me know what you
>think!
Some of the gadgets could be bought as no Focus at all -- the character
just enhances his own structure in the appropriate way.
>* Should this character be built as an automaton? I've never really made
>use of that section of the rules, so I'm only vaguely familiar with it, but
>it certainly seems to make sense.
Though I'm normally very wary of using the Automaton rules for PCs, I
think that this would be an appropriate case for it.
>* The player can't decide if he wants this to be like Inspector Gadget (he
>looks human but stuff sprouts out of his head, arms, and whatnot), or if it
>will actually look like a robot (metal body). I think this would mainly be
>special effect, but do you see any major differences in these two
>approaches? All I can see is that Armor might be better justified with a
>robot body, as well as a more valuable Distinctive Feature. If he chose
>the Inspector Gadget option, the character would still be entirely a
>machine--it would just have a human appearance except for the technology
>sprouting from various places.
Assuming there's nothing unusual about the universe, the only real
difference here would Distinctive Features; the rest would be just special
effects.
>* If the gadgets are OIF, I assume they couldn't be blown off during combat
>(we don't use hit location). Is that right?
Hmmm.... yeah, I think I'd go with that, with a strict interpretation of
the rules.
>* I can already see this character having an interesting relationship with
>Mechanon....
Naturally! In fact, Hunted by Mechanon (assuming Mechy's used in the
campaign at all) should be required! :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:19:18 -0600
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: RE: Robot PCs
At 04:11 PM 2/22/99 -0500, Brian Wawrow wrote:
>I'd be very careful about letting PC's take automaton powers. 'Takes no
>Stun' combined with a decent DEF is a quick way to build someone who's
>really hard to take down. Take a hard look at what kind of attacks your bad
>guys use and make sure your PC's droid isn't invincible compared to the rest
>of the PC's.
>
In addition, most comic book hero androids do get "knocked out" - though
the unconsciousness might described as damage which can be repaired by
damage control systems or whatever. The Vision, Red Tornado, and just about
every other complex robot in comics do take STUN; it's generally the simple
mindless machines that don't.
Still, I wish there was a smoother way to use the Automaton rules for PC's
should a concept require it. I like the "Incomplete" rules a lot, and I
hope the 5th edition includes something like them.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:36:19 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: DunDraCon thoughts
Don McKinney wrote:
>
> > Played in Glen Thain's FH/Champs/Petal Throne game. Confusing, but enjoyable.
> > I was introduced to Hero rules I never knew existed. And I've been playing
> > for 17 years now.
> > Example: Occupied hexes have a DCV of 5. Wonder if that's true if it's
> > occupied by an invisible character.
>
> Where's that rule at?
>
> DonM.
I don't think it was ever in any of the official rules, but may of been a
playtest version at one point. Anybody have the playtest version of the
first Fantasy Hero?
- -Mark
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:54:38 -0600
From: "Michael Nunn" <mlnunn@blue.net>
Subject: Re: Aberrant
>>I don't agree with him at all. I've played Trinity. It's nothing like a
>>superhero game. The characters have psionics, which is completely
different
>>than being bitten by a radioactive spider. It's very much along the same
>>genre as the WOD, just with a sci-fi spin, instead of the horror. It is
>>still very political, with various psionic guilds vying for control of the
>>known universe, each in keeping with their own psionic specialty.
>
>Given the nature of the psions, the whole 'protecting against the
Aberrents'
>thing, and a number of other things, I think you've got a much narrower
>definition of what constitutes a superhero game than some of us.
>
Maybe, but I have allways considered the "Hero" part of Super hero fairly
important in the playing of a super hero game. Trinity is a Sci Fi version
of World Of Darkness, the existance of psionic's, the only super power,
hardly makes it a Super Hero game, in my opinion.
Michael
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:54:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Cybermen
On 22 Feb 1999, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> * Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:21:35 -0500 (EST)
> | CYBERMEN
>
> *sigh*
>
> And here I thought you were starting up with Dr. Who conversions.
Sorry, I never watched the series. I did borrow a tech book that had a
diagram of a Dalek and considered a Dalek write-up at one point. I might
do that one anyway.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Benito Mussolini is...a gift of Providence, a man free from the prejudices
of the politicians of the liberal school."
Pope Pius XI
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:57:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: DunDraCon thoughts
On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Scott Bennie wrote:
> > Would you mind telling us, those that couldn't make it to DunDraCon, about
> > Any due date for the RTG DBZ game? Oh, and a Super-Saiyajin vs Cthulhu?
> > The Big C looses Big Time!
>
> This begs the question on whether *anyone* can beat them. Which quickly turns into
> a religious debate.
Sure. Azathoth. A few other guys. But I will admit that universe gets
just silly after a point. Outlandish fun, but silly.
> Oh, at the Hero Conference Bruce mentioned something called "Kazei Five" or
> something like that which is due out soon. Anime fans made happy motions and
> noises.
Wahooooo!!! Yeah! Yipppe! All right!
Who's the man?
Ahem...
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Benito Mussolini is...a gift of Providence, a man free from the prejudices
of the politicians of the liberal school."
Pope Pius XI
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:10:10 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Cybermen
At 04:49 PM 2/22/99 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>* Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:21:35
- -0500 (EST)
>| CYBERMEN
>
>*sigh*
>
>And here I thought you were starting up with Dr. Who conversions.
As was I. In fact, I was nearly ready to get the online Yellow Pages to
find the mental health authorities in Michael's area.... ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:33:10 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: DunDraCon thoughts
At 12:38 PM 2/22/99 -0800, Scott Bennie wrote:
>> Any due date for the RTG DBZ game? Oh, and a Super-Saiyajin vs Cthulhu?
>> The Big C looses Big Time!
>
>This begs the question on whether *anyone* can beat them. Which quickly
turns into
>a religious debate.
Well, neither of them holds a candle to Ambush Bug IMO. ;-]
>> I read a note on Aaron's page that made it sound like Strike Force may
>> several books - Blood, Circle etc.
>
>I directed people to the Hero Games site (www.herogames.com) because Aaron
>describes his plans in his own words there. The only new things I really
got from
>the seminar on Aaron's stuff was this was going to be a *long* term
project, and
>there'd be a lot of emphasis on campaign advice. Both of which makes me
really
>forward to them even more than I was before.
Ditto.
>Oh, at the Hero Conference Bruce mentioned something called "Kazei Five" or
>something like that which is due out soon. Anime fans made happy motions and
>noises.
Hmmmm... Did he mention anything about upcoming Ultimate books, Scott?
;-]
>> White Wolf does superheroes... wonderful.
>
>I feel the love. One does wonder when someone will come up with a *real*
White
>Wolf parody game.
I actually have one in mind -- actually, it parodies a number of popular
RPGs, White Wolf's among them (AD&D and Paranoia are two others). Imagine
a world where the best way to shake that werewolf that's chasing you is to
run past a fire hydrant....
PS: I didn't reply to your original post on this because I was too busy
giggling at the guy who insisted that RPGs have no educational value. I
wanna buy that guy copies of Golden Age Champions, Kingdom of Champions, An
Eye For An Eye, and some of the other Hero books that have not only become
factual reference works for me, but have inspired broader research on
various topics.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:04:46 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Aberrant
>>>I don't agree with him at all. I've played Trinity. It's nothing like a
>>>superhero game. The characters have psionics, which is completely
>different
>>>than being bitten by a radioactive spider. It's very much along the same
>>>genre as the WOD, just with a sci-fi spin, instead of the horror. It is
>>>still very political, with various psionic guilds vying for control of the
>>>known universe, each in keeping with their own psionic specialty.
>>
>>Given the nature of the psions, the whole 'protecting against the
>Aberrents'
>>thing, and a number of other things, I think you've got a much narrower
>>definition of what constitutes a superhero game than some of us.
>
>
>Maybe, but I have allways considered the "Hero" part of Super hero fairly
>important in the playing of a super hero game. Trinity is a Sci Fi version
>of World Of Darkness, the existance of psionic's, the only super power,
>hardly makes it a Super Hero game, in my opinion.
>
>
My reading of Trinity is that many of the psions are, indeed, heroic in
bent. In fact, that's not unique in the WoD games; I've seen both Werewolf
and Mage games that were effectively superhero games in a dark setting.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:20:30 -0800
From: Scott Bennie <sbennie@dowco.com>
Subject: Re: DunDraCon thoughts
> Hmmmm... Did he mention anything about upcoming Ultimate books, Scott?
> ;-]
I think Shapeshifter is next. It sounded like there a number of ones close to
completion, but Bruce and Steve are being a lot more guarded about upcoming
releases than they have been in past years. And Steve Long vowed that the
Ultimate Power Armor curse ends with him.
> >> White Wolf does superheroes... wonderful.
> >
> >I feel the love. One does wonder when someone will come up with a *real*
> White Wolf parody game.
>
> I actually have one in mind -- actually, it parodies a number of popular
> RPGs, White Wolf's among them (AD&D and Paranoia are two others). Imagine
> a world where the best way to shake that werewolf that's chasing you is to
> run past a fire hydrant....
I dunno. I think WoD deserves one of its own. Generic parody has already been
done (Hol, Spawn of Fashawn, Knights of the Dinner Table, various Toon stuff);
parody is funnier when it's focused than when it's scattershot. And Champions
probably deserves one too, more because the passion of its devotees (myself
included) invites a certain skewering, than for its content (*anyone* can do a
superhero parody).
> PS: I didn't reply to your original post on this because I was too busy
> giggling at the guy who insisted that RPGs have no educational value. I wanna
> buy that guy copies of Golden Age Champions, Kingdom of Champions, An Eye For
> An Eye, and some of the other Hero books that have not only become factual
> reference works for me, but have inspired broader research on various topics.
I gotta admit, making that statement in front of me, Steve Long, and Collie
Collier, and doing so with the subtlety of an Iraqi diplomat and a voice registry
that made Monty Python's "Mr. Gumby" sound soft and melodious by comparison
was... an experience.
Scott Bennie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:43:25 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: If you don't see it, ask.
Many online game shops will make an effort to post their inventory, but a
lot of them say, "If you don't see what you're looking for, ask."
I asked about something I hadn't seen listed in anyone's online inventory,
and I now have a copy of WINGS OF THE VALKYRIE. I was told "Yeah, I have
one of those, I just never got around to putting it on the list."
When I received it, it was Mint in the original shrinkwrap. I left it that
way for about two minutes, then devalued it by removing the plastic and
reading the book. :)
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:48:45 -0600
From: "Michael Nunn" <mlnunn@blue.net>
Subject: Re: Aberrant
>My reading of Trinity is that many of the psions are, indeed, heroic in
>bent. In fact, that's not unique in the WoD games; I've seen both Werewolf
>and Mage games that were effectively superhero games in a dark setting.
>
Ok I see where your coming from now. While I have never seen a WoD game I
would consider a "Super-Hero" game, I have seen games that were heroic in
nature, and the characters had "powers", while I still would have put them
under the banner of Fantasy or Sci Fi, they could be under a broad
definition be called Superhero.
Michael
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:52:01 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Aberrant
>>My reading of Trinity is that many of the psions are, indeed, heroic in
>>bent. In fact, that's not unique in the WoD games; I've seen both Werewolf
>>and Mage games that were effectively superhero games in a dark setting.
>>
>
>Ok I see where your coming from now. While I have never seen a WoD game I
>would consider a "Super-Hero" game, I have seen games that were heroic in
>nature, and the characters had "powers", while I still would have put them
>under the banner of Fantasy or Sci Fi, they could be under a broad
>definition be called Superhero.
There you go. I just think it's more obvious with Trinity because the
Aberrants at least pretty clearly _were_ comic style supers (sort of) when
they were around.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:52:05 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Robot PCs
At 02:39 PM 2/22/1999 -0500, David Stallard wrote:
>One of my players is considering playing a Robot character. This idea
>started out as a generic Gadgeteer type, but now the character wants to be
>some sort of sentient machine that can repair/enhance itself to meet
>different situations. Essentially, this would still be a generic Gadgeteer
>but the gadgets would probably be OIF instead of OAF. Below are some
>thoughts/questions about this sort of PC...please let me know what you
>think!
>
>* Should this character be built as an automaton? I've never really made
>use of that section of the rules, so I'm only vaguely familiar with it, but
>it certainly seems to make sense.
This was made to work pretty well in Enemies of San Angelo.
>
>* The player can't decide if he wants this to be like Inspector Gadget (he
>looks human but stuff sprouts out of his head, arms, and whatnot), or if it
>will actually look like a robot (metal body). I think this would mainly be
>special effect, but do you see any major differences in these two
>approaches?
It shouldn't require any difference in the Powers (SFX, as you say). But
the Disadvantages will be very different, depending on which option you go
with.
>* If the gadgets are OIF, I assume they couldn't be blown off during combat
>(we don't use hit location). Is that right?
That'd be up to the GM, but they could not be *targeted* during combat.
Accidents do happen, so if you're too near the explosion...
Damon
------------------------------
Date: 22 Feb 1999 23:32:57 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Aberrant
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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* shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:04:46 -0800 (PST)
| My reading of Trinity is that many of the psions are, indeed, heroic in
| bent. In fact, that's not unique in the WoD games; I've seen both Werewolf
| and Mage games that were effectively superhero games in a dark setting.
Sure... it is easy to turn Storyteller into a low-level superhero game. In
the three or five years I've played a weretiger, an unaffiliated mage, a
Verbena mage, an otherwise human Shinto priest/demon hunter, and two
radically different trolls. More often than not I found myself consciously
resisting the slide into munchkinism. For all of White Wolf's posturing
about role-playing, when their rules aren't bogging things down they are
not-so-subtly guiding characters into becoming combat machines.
Take all this with a grain of salt: I've generally disliked Storyteller from
the point that I realized that White Wolf took Shadowrun and discarded
everything good about the system. Why have I played in so many Storyteller
games? GM's choice of system.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:56:21 -0600
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@binary.net>
Subject: WotanThor...
Check out this... some ideas for a "god" character
http://www.binary.net/lancelot/poetry/wotans.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:40:47 -0800
From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
Subject: Attn Steve:Speaking of Dr. Who...
Let me once again issue my perennial whine for an 'official' (i.e, in 5th
edition) ruling on how to do 'serial' characters -- characters who
continually incarnate in new forms, with differing skills, abilities, and
sometimes personalities.
Three examples:
"The Sleeper" from Wild Cards.
Dial 'H' for Hero! from DC.
And Dr. Who.
Probably others, as well. To a certain extent, the Molecule Man, who
continually possessed different bodies, falls into this category.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:13:29 -0600
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@binary.net>
Subject: Re: Aberrant
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> * shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:04:46 -0800 (PST)
> | My reading of Trinity is that many of the psions are, indeed, heroic in
> | bent. In fact, that's not unique in the WoD games; I've seen both Werewolf
> | and Mage games that were effectively superhero games in a dark setting.
>
> Sure... it is easy to turn Storyteller into a low-level superhero game.
Doesnt seem like mages are low level at all...
> In
> the three or five years I've played a weretiger, an unaffiliated mage, a
> Verbena mage, an otherwise human Shinto priest/demon hunter, and two
> radically different trolls. More often than not I found myself consciously
> resisting the slide into munchkinism. For all of White Wolf's posturing
> about role-playing, when their rules aren't bogging things down they are
> not-so-subtly guiding characters into becoming combat machines.
You've played more of White Wolfs stuff than me... but I dont see combat machine
construction or how to get the most bang for your points going on in the game
- ->hint hint
> Take all this with a grain of salt:
MMMMMM love granular saline
> I've generally disliked Storyteller from
> the point that I realized that White Wolf took Shadowrun and discarded
> everything good about the system.
You liked the massive number of dice needed to perform actions? Actually I hadnt
noticed the correllation could you elaborate... I'm a system buff.
> Why have I played in so many Storyteller
> games? GM's choice of system
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>
> iD8DBQE20i95gl+vIlSVSNkRAjVfAJ91CDQyDzOq39R5MevT7EESWk84lACgp35T
> cmLpTogGflOd56HF9gFeols=
> =VRKo
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> --
> Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
> Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
> PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:47:49 -0600
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@binary.net>
Subject: falling damage guns should do... and physics comic style
Falling damage seems linearly based on velocity... ergo momentum derived not energy
based... which most of those discussing gun damage seem to be assuming.
just thought id mention it...
Additionally this kind of assumption applied to strength (which doubles in lifting
power every 5 pts so could generate double momentum every 10 pts ) and damage dealt
from it could result in a table similar to the below (yes im ignoring mass
differences)
0 base/2 d6
5 base/1.41 d6+2
10 base 2d6
15 1.41 b 3d6-1
20 2 b 4d6
25 2.82 b 6d6-2
30 4 b 8d6
35 5.64 b 11d6+1
40 8 b 16d6
45 11.28 b 22d6+2
50 16 b 32d6
Wow the ability of high strength character to deal damage in HERO must be really
underestimated .... perhaps it's a genre convention, like the underestimation of the
power of guns and explosives.
Lance
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #213
*****************************
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Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 10:35 AM