Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 216
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 12:12 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #216
champ-l-digest Thursday, February 25 1999 Volume 01 : Number 216
In this issue:
Re: Help me with a few concepts
Re: Help me with a few concepts
Re: [ Help me with a few concepts]
Re: Aberrant
Re: Help me with a few concepts
Re: Help me with a few concepts
Re: Skill Web (was Re: Aberrant)
Re: Help me with a few concepts
Re: Help me with a few concepts
Re: Help me with a few concepts
Re: Help me with a few concepts
Re: Help me with a few concepts
Re: Help me with a few concepts
Re: Taser (was Help me with a few concepts)
Re: Temporal Divergence in Games
Help me with a few concepts
RE: Aberrant
RE: Help me with a few concepts
Re: [ Help me with a few concepts]
FOCUS ?!?!?!
Re: Taser (was Help me with a few concepts)
Re: FOCUS ?!?!?!
Re: Help me with a few concepts
Re: Help me with a few concepts
Re: Help me with a few concepts
Re: Help me with a few concepts
RE: Help me with a few concepts
it's all about defense
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 24 Feb 1999 18:57:10 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
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* shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) Wed, 24 Feb 1999
| Don't you think a killing attack is excessive, Rat? I realize someone can
| die from excessive tasering, but a normal attack would seem closer to the
| likelyhood of doing body with it.
That's why I said to keep the base KA low and use a large Stun Multiplier.
Then again, this is for a comic-book tazer. The real thing is more complex
and expensive:
* Base: 1/2d6 RKA, No Range, NND: Electrical Insulation (such as heavy
winter clothing, ballistic fabric body armor, etc), NND Does Body Damage.
* Stun Effect: 5d6 EB, NND: Base RKA must do at least 1 point of Body
damage, No Range.
* Long-term Effect: 5d6 Dexterity Drain, Recovery 5/Minute, NND as Stun
Effect.
The EB and Drain can be increased as voltage increases; the base RKA should
remain the same unless amperage is increased (unlikely in a hand-held unit).
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
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PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:43:40 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
Curt Hicks wrote:
>
> > From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
> >
> > * He wants to do a Running Drain and define it as shooting someone in the
> > leg. Similarly, he wants an RKA defined as shooting someone in the head.
>
> This sounds fine to me. I don't understand your objections. You're not
> incorporating hit locations.
>
> > I really don't like this idea, especially since we don't use the Hit
> > Location table (and I don't want to start). I just don't like using hit
> > location as a special effect.
>
> Matter of taste, I suppose.
>
> His weapon fires energy (as opposed to
> > bullets), so I told him he could just define the drain as a different type
> > of energy that he can fire by pushing a button on the gun or whatever.
>
> In my opinion, this sounds less reasonable than the player's method of
> hit locations as sfx. I'd prefer "I shot him in the leg, so he can't
> move as well" for a commando character over "I have a setting on my blaster
> that slows peoples running speeds".
If he does it as a Running Drain, change the defense from Power
defense to resistant defenses. That may be worth a limitation in
your game depending on the popularity of the two.
In my game, I'd require the +2 vs SFX as well, since it makes sense that
any Leg based power should be affected. (Superleap, killer toenails...)
- -Mark Lemming
------------------------------
Date: 24 Feb 99 17:29:28 MST
From: ANTHONY VARGAS <anthony.vargas@usa.net>
Subject: Re: [ Help me with a few concepts]
David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com> wrote:
> * He wants a hand-held Tazer. I thought this would be an NND EB, but
> what's the defense?
Buy it as a STN-only EB (electrical). For the kind you have to touch the
victim with take no range. For the wire kind, take charges and reduced range.
> * He wants to do a Running Drain and define it as shooting someone in the
> leg. Similarly, he wants an RKA defined as shooting someone in the head.
> I really don't like this idea, especially since we don't use the Hit
> Location table (and I don't want to start). I just don't like using hit
> location as a special effect. His weapon fires energy (as opposed to
> bullets), so I told him he could just define the drain as a different type
> of energy that he can fire by pushing a button on the gun or whatever. He
> really likes the idea of shooting someone in the leg to make them slow
> down, though. How would you handle this?
I don't see anything wrong with the F/X... it's just his skill with the
weapon. However, if you shoot someone in the leg, they /will/ take BOD.
He should probably take the Drain linked to an RKA with the limitation
that the drain has no effect if the RKA fails to do BOD.
For the head shot, he should take Reduced Penetration. Being a marksman
is well and good, but if your shot bounces off the guy's Force Field or
Powered armor, it really doesn't make too much of a difference where
you hit him.
> * He wants to buy Telescopic Sense and link it to EB (his gun). Linking
> these two doesn't make any sense to me.
You're right-on here. That would mean he'd have to shoot at things to
look at them.
> I told him a better idea would be
> to buy Telescopic Sense as a separate power (with the same OAF as his EB),
> and then he could add No Range Penalty to his EB. He doesn't think No
> Range Penalty is realistic enough, though. He said he'd like to be able to
> spend XP later to buy a better scope, just like you'd do in real life.
Tell him to buy Range Levels through the scope, and link them to the
Telescopic vision, if he must absolutely link stuff.
> * He thinks it is perfectly fine for his character to pay the END when his
> gun fires a shot (the EB). I told him this doesn't make sense, and he said
> it's because his character is receiving the recoil and lugging a heavy gun
> and stuff. I told him I still don't buy it--the only way he could pay the
> gun's END would be if there was some mystic link (it feeds off his essence)
> or he has cables running from under his flesh to the gun. I told him to
> buy either an END Battery for the gun, or use Charges. Am I right about
> this one?
You're the GM, your word is law. However, I personaly don't see anything
wrong with the F/X of an energy weapon that has an unlimitted power source
but is exhausting to use. It could be the STR needed to lug and fire the
weapon, or it could be that it's poorly-shielded exotic power source
emits radiations that sap vitality... You may want to let him take STR
Minimum, though that's not really a super-heroic limitation, and you might
want to substantially reduce the bonus.
____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:26:34 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Aberrant
>> A. This one is way too radical, so isn't what you asked about: Eliminate
>I don't know if that would work very well in Hero, but it would be
>a great addition to Fuzion. Fuzion skills are already just bonuses
Great. Thanks a lot. Now I'm going to be thinking about that all night
instead of more important things.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:16:03 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
At 08:42 PM 2/24/99 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Help me with a few concepts
>Cc: "[unknown]" <champ-l-digest@sysabend.org>
>
>I have a player who is building a commando-type character. Basically, he's
>a gun-toter similar to the Punisher or one of the operatives in the Rainbow
>Six computer game. He has a few ideas that either I don't like or am not
>sure how to implement, so I thought I'd hit this list for 2nd opinions:
>
>* He wants a hand-held Tazer. I thought this would be an NND EB, but
>what's the defense? Rubber clothing might work, but is that common enough
>to qualify for the "common set of circumstances" that NND requires? I
>don't think so.... How would you implement a Tazer? Not the ones that
>shoot a cable out, but the ones that just have an electric current at the
>end of the hand-held unit--No Range, in other words.
Forget NND. Just make it a regular EB, with No Range.
>* He wants to do a Running Drain and define it as shooting someone in the
>leg. Similarly, he wants an RKA defined as shooting someone in the head.
>I really don't like this idea, especially since we don't use the Hit
>Location table (and I don't want to start). I just don't like using hit
>location as a special effect. His weapon fires energy (as opposed to
>bullets), so I told him he could just define the drain as a different type
>of energy that he can fire by pushing a button on the gun or whatever. He
>really likes the idea of shooting someone in the leg to make them slow
>down, though. How would you handle this?
I'd allow the desired Powers in a Multipower, with each of these slots
taking Required Skill Roll (where the Skill is an additional Attack Roll),
or a similar house-rule Limitation for Reduced Accuracy (representing the
otherwise unused Hit Location Modifiers).
>* He wants to buy Telescopic Sense and link it to EB (his gun). Linking
>these two doesn't make any sense to me. I told him a better idea would be
>to buy Telescopic Sense as a separate power (with the same OAF as his EB),
>and then he could add No Range Penalty to his EB. He doesn't think No
>Range Penalty is realistic enough, though. He said he'd like to be able to
>spend XP later to buy a better scope, just like you'd do in real life. I
>can't remember...is there an advantage which increases the range
>increments? I think that would handle the situation. If not, how would
>you handle this? I think my suggestion is just fine, but he's resistant to
>No Range Penalty for some reason, even though it's a common technique with
>published characters. I think he just needs to relax on his realism
>requirement a little....
You're right in that it makes no sense to Link the Telescopic Vision to
the Energy Blast. No matter how you see Linked as working under Hero4, it
just doesn't "feel" right that these would be two Powers that "go off"
together.
If he wants to reduce range penalty, have him just get Range Skill Levels.
>* He thinks it is perfectly fine for his character to pay the END when his
>gun fires a shot (the EB). I told him this doesn't make sense, and he said
>it's because his character is receiving the recoil and lugging a heavy gun
>and stuff. I told him I still don't buy it--the only way he could pay the
>gun's END would be if there was some mystic link (it feeds off his essence)
>or he has cables running from under his flesh to the gun. I told him to
>buy either an END Battery for the gun, or use Charges. Am I right about
>this one?
Actually, he does have a point where I can see it, though those more
familiar with real firearms may see things differently.
That said, in the end I'm with you. The thing may cost him END, but its
ammo still has to come from *somewhere,* which means it needs either END
Battery or Charges. The END for its usage could be split (at a fixed
proportion) between himself and the END Battery, or the Charges could cost
END to use, but he still should take one of those.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:03:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
Stainless Steel Rat writes:
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> * Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> Wed, 24 Feb 1999
> | Ok, call it half-normal body or something.
>
> Hero has no such animal. Damage is either 'normal' or 'killing'. So
> rather than going with a needlessly complex linked power structure (see
> another post), I suggest using a small RKA with a big Stun Multiplier.
Sure it does. -0 limitation 'body damage is halved'. Even a 1 pip RKA is
probably too lethal to accurately represent a taser.
------------------------------
Date: 24 Feb 1999 20:33:01 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Skill Web (was Re: Aberrant)
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* Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> Wed, 24 Feb 1999
| Can you default in both directions ? i.e. Unarmed Combat defaults to
| Strength, but Strength defaults to Unarmed Combat ?
Sometimes, sometimes not.
Actually, I goofed again and forgot the diodes that prevent using Unarmed
Combat for Strength (sigh). Strength can be used for Armed or Unarmed
Combat, but not the other way. Quickness could also be used for either,
but not the other way.
You could, however, use Throwing for Quickness, at +4.
| We have a joke about everything defaulting to Military Theory.
| "I don't have Negotiation, but I'll default off of Military Theory".
Yeah... that was first edition, first printing, which had no diodes on the
skill web.
| I think the complementary skill rolls in Hero take the place of the skill
| web in Shadowrun. The only use for a Hero 'skill web' I see would be to
| clarify what skills are complementary to each other.
If you wanted to adapt the web without changing Hero, yeah.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:11:35 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
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>* shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) Wed, 24 Feb 1999
>| Don't you think a killing attack is excessive, Rat? I realize someone can
>| die from excessive tasering, but a normal attack would seem closer to the
>| likelyhood of doing body with it.
>
>That's why I said to keep the base KA low and use a large Stun Multiplier.
>Then again, this is for a comic-book tazer. The real thing is more complex
>and expensive:
Even then, that means against most people the taser will _always_ do at
least a body pip...and having been tazered once, I'm not sure I believe that.
------------------------------
Date: 24 Feb 1999 22:22:16 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
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* shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) Wed, 24 Feb 1999
| Even then, that means against most people the taser will _always_ do at
| least a body pip...and having been tazered once, I'm not sure I believe that.
But you get hit 20 times, I can pretty much guarantee that you will not get
up, ever. Some of that has to be Body damage, unless you want to give
anything with an electrically-based nervous system a 'free' Susceptability.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
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------------------------------
Date: 24 Feb 1999 22:19:22 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
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* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> Wed, 24 Feb 1999
| This is why I recommend a straight EB (No Range). It does BODY damage
| and *can* be lethal, but its *primary* effect is to stun or render
| unconscious.
Yep, that is a good second choice. The reason I shy away from that is that
the ratio of Stun to Body is not as extreme as I think it should be. I
suppose Reduced Penetration could be used to get around that....
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:46:54 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
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>* shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) Wed, 24 Feb 1999
>| Even then, that means against most people the taser will _always_ do at
>| least a body pip...and having been tazered once, I'm not sure I believe that.
>
>But you get hit 20 times, I can pretty much guarantee that you will not get
>up, ever. Some of that has to be Body damage, unless you want to give
>anything with an electrically-based nervous system a 'free' Susceptability
So make it a normal attack. That'll still do Body, but won't do it to
everyone, every time. Under your way if you tasered most people once a day
for six days they'd be dying, and it doesn't work that way.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:39:19 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
>
>I'm with you on this one. While the player's SFX would be legal within the
>rules, it doesn't make a lot of sense, since most other characters with
>guns don't pay END that way.
>
then it's a bigger gun. how much end?
if it's onyl a bit it's quite reasonable, to protray a huge blammo-gun or
just
something with back-breaking kick. .
>- Bill Svitavsky
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:57:25 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
> I'd allow the desired Powers in a Multipower, with each of these slots
> taking Required Skill Roll (where the Skill is an additional Attack Roll),
> or a similar house-rule Limitation for Reduced Accuracy (representing the
> otherwise unused Hit Location Modifiers).
Why needlessly hinder. We're talking about a superhero character
here, in a superhero game. If called-shots don't get the game effects of
increased/decreased stun and bod, then they are merely a matter of SFX.
If I have a special attack defined as a "groin-shot" that does 5d6NND,
only to males, then I wouldn't need to roll to hit the groin everytime--it
would be a matter of SFX. On the other hand, even if called shots were
allowed in this game, they would have no more effect with these powers.
> You're right in that it makes no sense to Link the Telescopic Vision to
> the Energy Blast. No matter how you see Linked as working under Hero4, it
> just doesn't "feel" right that these would be two Powers that "go off"
> together.
Actually, it could. The act of firing illuminates the scope in
some way that allows the character to see really far off. It would do
nothing to help the shot, however, and is probably not what is desired.
> Actually, he does have a point where I can see it, though those more
> familiar with real firearms may see things differently.
> That said, in the end I'm with you. The thing may cost him END, but its
> ammo still has to come from *somewhere,* which means it needs either END
> Battery or Charges. The END for its usage could be split (at a fixed
> proportion) between himself and the END Battery, or the Charges could cost
> END to use, but he still should take one of those.
Why? The gun has a practically limitless source of energy for
some reason, making it a very common 4-color superhero weapon--almost as
common as those revolvers with dozens of bullets. Now, for some reason,
firing the weapon is a tiring activity to the character, and he needs to
occasionally rest up a bit.
Simple, and very 4-color. Why penalize this character for a very
4-color conception?
-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:57:50 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Taser (was Help me with a few concepts)
At 07:10 PM 2/24/99 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
>* Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> Wed, 24 Feb 1999
>| Ok, call it half-normal body or something.
>
>Hero has no such animal. Damage is either 'normal' or 'killing'. So
>rather than going with a needlessly complex linked power structure (see
>another post), I suggest using a small RKA with a big Stun Multiplier.
Why not EB?
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:37:35 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Temporal Divergence in Games
- -----Original Message-----
From: Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net>
>The more I think about this, the more I like the idea. The heroes not only
>get to change the world, but they get to know _how_ they changed the world;
>what was different, and what would have happened. I think that is kind of
>cool.
>
>Filksinger
>
Also I actually linked the confederate cause to a more wide-reaching version
of an alternative
world idea. The result was a group called the south, which took in not only
the confederate
states, but canada, australia and half of south america, which developed in
response to the
development of sorcery in the north and the obliteration of europe after
ww1-2 v 1.2. The eventual
result was a confrontation betweeen a techniologically skilled feudal empire
of southerners and the
magically skilled northern democracy, with a fair number of superheros
thrown in on both sides.
Ths was meant as a semi-standard setting, and i tried to pull as many issues
back into familiar
terms as i could. The campaign eventually turned into a truce and mutual war
when what
was left of europe shambled out of thier caves and headed east, wiping out
the asian provinces
like they were nothing. You think nukes in superhero games cause mutaitons,
you should see what
a really powerful oth death spell does. But the original breakpoint was the
discovery of sorcery in
the north, balanced by a time-traveler giving weapons tech to the south.
This resulted from
two time-travels from the future, one a sorceror seeking to take over the
world via an unnopposed
north trouncing the south and becoming increasingly imperialist (resulting
in a modern day
world rules mostly by the liche version of the original wizard) and a
second by a tech enclave
who tried to balance the odds with weapons tech fro the south. Since all
they had were weapons,
and a war that lasted some time, they techniological evolution was not as
rapid as you'd think.
I based the idea on a vision of an equivalent of the union jack- the brits
ebing kinda revered by the
south after the north wiped them out, or alternatly just close alies. The
flag was the confederate cross, overlayed with the eureka cross (blue and
white horizontal./vertical star cross type thingy) with heraldric symbols in
each gap between crosses.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 03:30:28 -0500
From: Gypsy <klgeorge@mindspring.com>
Subject: Help me with a few concepts
> > Actually, he does have a point where I can see it, though those more
> > familiar with real firearms may see things differently.
> > That said, in the end I'm with you. The thing may cost him END, but its
> > ammo still has to come from *somewhere,* which means it needs either END
> > Battery or Charges. The END for its usage could be split (at a fixed
> > proportion) between himself and the END Battery, or the Charges could cost
> > END to use, but he still should take one of those.
>
> Why? The gun has a practically limitless source of energy for
> some reason, making it a very common 4-color superhero weapon--almost as
> common as those revolvers with dozens of bullets. Now, for some reason,
> firing the weapon is a tiring activity to the character, and he needs to
> occasionally rest up a bit.
I designed a gun for one of my characters that takes the body's
natural energy field and amplifies it, thus the power for the gun comes
from her, hence it costs END and has unlimited charges.
- --
Imagination is the seed of intelligence. Nourish it and watch it grow.
ICQ #3788510
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:51:53 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: RE: Aberrant
From: ANTHONY VARGAS
<snip>
>
> Wouldn't that be a bit like the Language Chart, but for skills?
>
> Hm... Accrobatics has a 3pt similarity to Breakfall, and 2 to
> Contortionist....
Not quite the same, but it does address a number of issues I have with
skills in HERO.
> Of course, given the overwhelming popularity of the
> Language Chart.....
I always liked it. And any major change in skills should be optional,
to reduce impact on people who don't want the change.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:51:40 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: RE: Help me with a few concepts
From: Stainless Steel Rat
>
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> Hash: SHA1
>
> * David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com> Wed, 24 Feb 1999
> | * He wants a hand-held Tazer. I thought this would be an
> NND EB, but
> | what's the defense?
>
> Nah... a hand-held tazer is IMO better defined as a small
> Killing Attack
> with a hefty Stun Multiplier increase, say 1D6 RKA base
> plus whatever you
> he can afford for Stun Multiple increase.
I don't want to restart the flame war, but are you actually claiming
that a taser is as deadly as a Police Special? That a hit to the head
or vitals can be considered lethal to the average man with an average
roll?
Now, I know that you think that the burns from a taser should be
considered a killing attack, though I still do not know why they
couldn't be a normal attack, since they also create burns and can kill
if used over and over again. But do you really think a 1d6, the same
as a .32 caliber pistol, is appropriate?
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:22:29 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: [ Help me with a few concepts]
On 24 Feb 1999, ANTHONY VARGAS wrote:
> > * He wants to do a Running Drain and define it as shooting someone in the
> > leg.
>
> I don't see anything wrong with the F/X... it's just his skill with the
> weapon. However, if you shoot someone in the leg, they /will/ take BOD.
> He should probably take the Drain linked to an RKA with the limitation
> that the drain has no effect if the RKA fails to do BOD.
Not necessarily. I could shoot you in the leg with a rubber bullet or
something else that would hurt, and bruise, but not actually do enough
damage to be considered '1 BODY', but it would almost certainly slow you
down.
> For the head shot, he should take Reduced Penetration. Being a marksman
> is well and good, but if your shot bounces off the guy's Force Field or
> Powered armor, it really doesn't make too much of a difference where
> you hit him.
Um. I'm not sure how 'Reduced Penetration' is supposed to mimic this,
though.
> > * He wants to buy Telescopic Sense and link it to EB (his gun). Linking
> > these two doesn't make any sense to me.
>
> You're right-on here. That would mean he'd have to shoot at things to
> look at them.
It sounds like he wants a telescopic scope. I'd have him buy Telescopic
Vision, OAF Scope, and also several levels vs. range with an OAF Scope.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:48:20 +0100
From: Black Bishop <BISHOP@bdc2.sirnet.it>
Subject: FOCUS ?!?!?!
Hi Folks =)
I had a lot of problems lately with the Focus question :
ok I will try to explain
1) there were in our campaign a guy that had the power to use his bones to
create really sharp blades
that's ok I suppose and does not require Focus of course
But there is another problem : Another player wanted to do a character that
an use his claws to fight and he told me "Well, if someone broke my claws I
can't use 'em (Like Wolverine versus Sabretooth lately) so why I can't get
a -1/4 limitation ???
(Like Panthera in a sourcebook that I can't remember)
I'd agree with it I think it is right but I am not really sure about it
Like it, the Lady Skorpion, a mutant that has a scorpion tail, would a -1/2
Limitation (OIF) 'cause "it is simpler to break my tail that his claws no ?
and I couldn't use my venom powers without it"
and I think it is right again no ?
Well, now, reading the Robot PG idea, one of my players decided to create one
He wanted to use Automaton Rules (and I agree with it)
But now... the weaponry... I think it should be an OIF... am I Right ?
Please tell me if I am right
thank ya all
Black Bishop
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 06:36:02 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Taser (was Help me with a few concepts)
At 10:22 PM 2/24/99 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
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>* shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) Wed, 24 Feb 1999
>| Even then, that means against most people the taser will _always_ do at
>| least a body pip...and having been tazered once, I'm not sure I believe
that.
>
>But you get hit 20 times, I can pretty much guarantee that you will not get
>up, ever. Some of that has to be Body damage, unless you want to give
>anything with an electrically-based nervous system a 'free' Susceptability.
Well, if you get hit with a baseball bat 20 times, I think it's a pretty
good bet that you will not get up, ever, either. But I wouldn't dream of
representing a baseball bat with an HKA; it's pretty clearly HA, just as
the taser is pretty clearly (to my mind) EB.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:40:55 -0500
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: FOCUS ?!?!?!
Your focus questions will really come down to one simple question:
How often can and will the item be taken away or rendered unusable?
That will be up the the GM. If Wolverine's claws can be easily
targeted and destroyed, then you've got basis for a focus limitation.
(In fact, this one's worth a bit more, because you'd have to wait for
the claws to grow back.)
If the robot's weapons can be taken away, they're foci. If it takes
a complete disassembly to remove the weapons -- I don't think so.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 06:23:11 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
At 05:52 AM 2/25/99 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
>cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
>
>> I'd allow the desired Powers in a Multipower, with each of these slots
>> taking Required Skill Roll (where the Skill is an additional Attack Roll),
>> or a similar house-rule Limitation for Reduced Accuracy (representing the
>> otherwise unused Hit Location Modifiers).
>
> Why needlessly hinder. We're talking about a superhero character
>here, in a superhero game. If called-shots don't get the game effects of
>increased/decreased stun and bod, then they are merely a matter of SFX.
>If I have a special attack defined as a "groin-shot" that does 5d6NND,
>only to males, then I wouldn't need to roll to hit the groin everytime--it
>would be a matter of SFX. On the other hand, even if called shots were
>allowed in this game, they would have no more effect with these powers.
>
>> You're right in that it makes no sense to Link the Telescopic Vision to
>> the Energy Blast. No matter how you see Linked as working under Hero4, it
>> just doesn't "feel" right that these would be two Powers that "go off"
>> together.
>
> Actually, it could. The act of firing illuminates the scope in
>some way that allows the character to see really far off. It would do
>nothing to help the shot, however, and is probably not what is desired.
>
>> Actually, he does have a point where I can see it, though those more
>> familiar with real firearms may see things differently.
>> That said, in the end I'm with you. The thing may cost him END, but its
>> ammo still has to come from *somewhere,* which means it needs either END
>> Battery or Charges. The END for its usage could be split (at a fixed
>> proportion) between himself and the END Battery, or the Charges could cost
>> END to use, but he still should take one of those.
>
> Why? The gun has a practically limitless source of energy for
>some reason, making it a very common 4-color superhero weapon--almost as
>common as those revolvers with dozens of bullets. Now, for some reason,
>firing the weapon is a tiring activity to the character, and he needs to
>occasionally rest up a bit.
>
> Simple, and very 4-color. Why penalize this character for a very
>4-color conception?
The answer to all your concerns here is the same: the *player* is
looking for realistic representations.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:55:41 -0600
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
At 10:57 PM 2/24/99 -0600, Tim Gilberg wrote:
> Why? The gun has a practically limitless source of energy for
>some reason, making it a very common 4-color superhero weapon--almost as
>common as those revolvers with dozens of bullets. Now, for some reason,
>firing the weapon is a tiring activity to the character, and he needs to
>occasionally rest up a bit.
>
> Simple, and very 4-color. Why penalize this character for a very
>4-color conception?
The "very 4-color" route would be 0 END. I'm fairly certain I've seen more
4-color characters run out of ammo (usually at a dramatically appropriate
moment, a la "no more web fluid!") than fatigue themselves by firing a
completely external weapon.
- --
------------------------------
Date: 25 Feb 1999 10:47:36 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
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* shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) Wed, 24 Feb 1999
| So make it a normal attack. That'll still do Body, but won't do it to
| everyone, every time. Under your way if you tasered most people once a day
| for six days they'd be dying, and it doesn't work that way.
As I said, the ratio of Stun to Body of normal attacks is not in keeping
with what tazers do, and applying Stun Multiple to EB is... something you'd
find in European Enemies :).
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: 25 Feb 1999 10:48:38 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Help me with a few concepts
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* Gypsy <klgeorge@mindspring.com> Thu, 25 Feb 1999
| I designed a gun for one of my characters that takes the body's
| natural energy field and amplifies it, thus the power for the gun comes
| from her, hence it costs END and has unlimited charges.
Neat idea. Utterly inappropriate for the character described, though.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:00:33 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: RE: Help me with a few concepts
> Now, I know that you think that the burns from a taser should be
> considered a killing attack, though I still do not know why they
> couldn't be a normal attack, since they also create burns and can kill
> if used over and over again. But do you really think a 1d6, the same
> as a .32 caliber pistol, is appropriate?
Actually, he stated that this would be a good fictional taser.
-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:54:27 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: it's all about defense
G'Day all,
As you may remember, I'm running a FH game where magic is done with VPP's.
The problem I'm running into is that as the pools get bigger, I'm starting
to see some ridiculous rPD's on the characters. The crusader now averages
about 20rPD across his body. So, he's all but invincible against normal
weapons. Likewise, the warlock's force field is getting too big to ...
[ahem] fit the genre.
So, I think I'm going to yank the armour/force field spells from everyone's
grimoires and replace them with alternative defenses. For example damage
reduction, extra BOD, extra non-resistant PD and so on. I'll still allow
force walls but I want to ditch the huge personal force fields in the
interest of keeping mundane weapons dangerous.
As you can imagine, I'm expecting heavy resistance from the players. Does
anybody have any helpful suggestions for other ways I can deal with this?
Oh, by the way, thanks to everyone who helped me with the mechanics for the
zombie stew in my Necrotron adventure. My players were really intimidated by
the whole mess. They procrastinanted for an hour, trying to find something
to do that didn't involve going down... into the pit.
Thanks,
BRI
Brian Wawrow
Financial Models Company
"Do or do not. There is no try."
- - Yoda
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #216
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Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 10:35 AM