From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 1999 10:12 PM 
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #219 
 
 
champ-l-digest       Saturday, February 27 1999       Volume 01 : Number 219 
 
 
 
In this issue: 
 
    Re: variable power pools 
    Re: variable power pools 
    Re: variable power pools 
    Re: Hero at Origins 99? 
    Re: variable power pools 
    Instant HERO 
    Re: variable power pools 
    Re: it's all about defense 
    Re: Hero at Origins 99? 
    Re: variable power pools 
    Re: variable power pools 
    Paging Albert Deschensne 
    Industry News 
    Re: Industry News 
    Re: Industry News 
    RE: Help me with a few concepts 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:08:03 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: variable power pools 
 
At 02:34 PM 2/26/99 -0500, Brian Wawrow wrote: 
>A couple of months ago, during the last instance of the horrible 'linked' 
>debate, the issue of firing attack powers in parallel was raised. The idea 
>being that if you have two attack powers that aren't linked or anything and 
>both could be active simultaneously, you could fire both at the same target. 
>The legality of this was hotly debated and left in the 'to be decided by 
>house rules' pile. 
> 
>So, assuming that house rules allow this, what are the nuts and bolts of 
>opening two powers in a VPP and shooting them at the same time. Example. 
>PlasmaPunk has a plasma-based 60pt. cosmic power pool. He opens a 4D6RKA 
>with -1 worth of limitations, thus he's used 30pts. of real cost in his 
>pool. Then, he opens an 8D6EB Explosive with another -1 worth of limits, so 
>his pool is full. Now, can he fire both? Do both attacks have to have the 
>same target? Do they both use the same attack roll? If both have a skill 
>roll as part of their limits, do they use the same skill roll? Would you add 
>the active points together for the penalty on the skill roll? 
> 
>Has anyone dealt with this kind of thing? 
 
   I haven't, but there really isn't anything different in the above from 
just having two attack Powers available at the same time because both were 
bought with separate pools of points.  That they're coming from a VPP 
doesn't change anything, so whatever your house rules would be for handling 
two attack Powers would apply equally to this case. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:46:35 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: variable power pools 
 
At 03:22 PM 2/26/99 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote: 
>>| The legality of this was hotly debated and left in the 'to be decided by 
>>| house rules' pile. 
>> 
>>Fifth edition makes it official: you can use more than one power in a 
>>single attack (and please, there is no such thing as an 'attack power'; 
>>there are powers used to make attacks, a few of which may also be used as 
>>defenses). 
> 
>You know if we keep this up we will end up in the realm of Wizards of the 
>Coast and their godawful rulesmongering for Magic: the Gathering.  The game 
>used to be fun until they made so many rules that no mere mortal can know 
>them all.  IRS agents look at the M:TG rules books and run screaming. 
 
   One point, which may or may not be in HSR5's favor: 
   It's being written by a lawyer.  ;-] 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: 26 Feb 1999 20:05:38 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: variable power pools 
 
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* Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> Fri, 26 Feb 1999 
| You know if we keep this up we will end up in the realm of Wizards of the 
| Coast and their godawful rulesmongering for Magic: the Gathering. 
 
Tell me, how can it be rulesmongering when there is no rule that either 
defines or not-defines 'attack power'? 
 
Hero has powers.  Some may be used for making attacks.  A few of those may 
also be used for defending against attacks.  Calling such a power an 
'attack power' might cause confusion because of the implication that it it 
cannot be used defensively, or that it requires an attack roll to use 
defensively when that might not be the case. 
 
In other words, don't go creating categories of powers that the rules you 
are so worried about do not define. 
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- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core, 
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should 
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 20:28:32 EST 
From: HeroGames@aol.com 
Subject: Re: Hero at Origins 99? 
 
In a message dated 2/26/99 4:10:18 PM, DBStallard@compuserve.com writes: 
 
>Any chance that Hero Games will be at Origins 99?  I think I saw somewhere 
>that Hero was hoping to have preview copies of Hero System 5th Edition 
>available at GenCon, which leads me to believe they don't plan to be at 
>Origins.  Last year Hero said that they were skipping Origins because 
>GenCon is bigger and they wanted to concentrate on being ready for that 
>(or something like that).  It sounds like they're confident that 5th Edition 
>won't be ready until late Q2 at least, but I don't know if any other 
>releases will be out around that time (not sure what's happening with New 
>Millennium supplements, but I use that setting so I'd be happy to see it 
>crank back up).  I'm assuming that having a new product to release is a 
>motivator for companies to show up at cons, but I'd be happy to see them 
>either way. 
 
We have no set date for 5th Edition yet. However, Steve Long is working on his 
final draft, and we expect to get that in the near future. We won't set a 
release date until we're into the layout process. 
 
Origins isn't as big of a show for roleplaying as it used to be, but we're 
planning to attend with whatever new products we happen to have at that point. 
 
— Steve Peterson, Hero Games  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:49:24 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: variable power pools 
 
>>| The legality of this was hotly debated and left in the 'to be decided by 
>>| house rules' pile. 
>> 
>>Fifth edition makes it official: you can use more than one power in a 
>>single attack (and please, there is no such thing as an 'attack power'; 
>>there are powers used to make attacks, a few of which may also be used as 
>>defenses). 
> 
>You know if we keep this up we will end up in the realm of Wizards of the 
>Coast and their godawful rulesmongering for Magic: the Gathering.  The game 
>used to be fun until they made so many rules that no mere mortal can know 
>them all.  IRS agents look at the M:TG rules books and run screaming. 
 
Any rules set as complicated as the Hero System is going to require fine 
tuning and clarification.  I'm just glad they chose to do it.   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:36:50 PST 
From: "Jack Scarecrow" <themadharlequin@hotmail.com> 
Subject: Instant HERO 
 
Where do you find the Instant HERO rules? 
 
I believe there was a post a while back with an address of an online  
site in which they were posted. 
 
______________________________________________________ 
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:52:08 -0800 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
Subject: Re: variable power pools 
 
>| You know if we keep this up we will end up in the realm of Wizards of the 
>| Coast and their godawful rulesmongering for Magic: the Gathering. 
> 
>Tell me, how can it be rulesmongering when there is no rule that either 
>defines or not-defines 'attack power'? 
> 
>Hero has powers.  Some may be used for making attacks.  A few of those may 
>also be used for defending against attacks.  Calling such a power an 
>'attack power' might cause confusion because of the implication that it it 
>cannot be used defensively, or that it requires an attack roll to use 
>defensively when that might not be the case. 
> 
>In other words, don't go creating categories of powers that the rules you 
>are so worried about do not define. 
 
No, no please, I wasn't meaning a flame at all, I just was noting the 
defining of categories and concepts was how it started with M:TG, and hoped 
in a humorous fashion that wouldn't here. 
 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo    	Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 20:48:18 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: it's all about defense 
 
>>>What if magical and normal defenses didn't stack? That way, the first 20 
>>>points or so of a spell would just be catching up to what's already there. 
>> 
>>I suspect that penelizes at exactly the wrong end of it for most people, 
>>since it means the rich get richer but it's almost useless to the starting 
>mage. 
> 
> 
>Good point. But I was thinking along the lines of minimizing starting armors 
>available, too. So a mage with a 4/4 Armor spell could have as good an armor 
>as any starting character. Not as good against stun damage, since normal PD 
>wouldn't stack, but as good for survivability, anyway. 
 
On the other hand, barring limitations, it's cost him 8 character points, 
and costs him Edurance.  Admittedly, it doesn't encumber and he has it 
pretty much anywhere, given time to put it up, but I'm not sure that's much 
consolation. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:31:53 -0500 
From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com> 
Subject: Re: Hero at Origins 99? 
 
>We have no set date for 5th Edition yet. However, Steve Long is working on 
his 
final draft, and we expect to get that in the near future. We won't set a 
release date until we're into the layout process.< 
 
After I posted that message about preview editions of 5E being available at 
GenCon, I started having doubts.  Now that I think about it more, I think I 
was talking about Pinnacle's upcoming supers game, Brave New World.  
- -sheepish grin- 
 
>Origins isn't as big of a show for roleplaying as it used to be, but we're 
planning to attend with whatever new products we happen to have at that 
point.< 
 
Woohoo!  There certainly was a huge miniatures wargaming contingent at 
Origins 98 (my first time to that con), but I think most of the major 
roleplaying companies had booths, as well as some minor ones.  The 
roleplaying booths certainly weren't a minority hidden in a dark corner of 
the hall, though.  I'd guess that Origins 98 was close to a 50/50 split as 
far as role-playing and wargaming went, with collectible card games only 
making a small showing (as far as company representation goes--there were 
plenty of people selling and playing CCGs, but only Wizards of the Coast 
and one or two others were promoting their games). 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:43:58 -0800 
From: Tracy L Birdine <hawk291@juno.com> 
Subject: Re: variable power pools 
 
On Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:13:27 -0800 Bob Greenwade 
<bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes: 
>At 07:09 PM 2/26/99 -0800, you wrote: 
>> 
>> 
>>On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:46:35 -0800 Bob Greenwade 
>><bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes: 
>>>At 03:22 PM 2/26/99 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote: 
>>> 
> 
>   Well, you ended up sending this directly to me, and not to Steve or 
the 
>list  
 
Oops.  My bad.  Wasn't paying attention to the 'TO' box   :-) 
 
 
>(and BTW he Unsubscribed a short while ago so his mailbox wouldn't 
>overflow while he was gone for 3 weeks).   
 
I know how that is.  The comp was down for 5 weeks and when it was back 
up and running I had some 2000 plus email.  Took three separate DLs to 
get it all   ;-\ 
 
>But Steve was an attorney when he 
>got his start at writing.  He's now devoting his whole schedule to 
>freelance game writing, though. 
 
It still astounds me, the vast cross-section of humanity who are avid 
gamers. 
 
Be nice if there were a few million more, then perhaps the world wouldn't 
be experiencing so many problems... 
 
> 
>Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
>   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
>Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
>   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
 
 
 
|- /\ \\/ |< 
CO/Alpha Company, Black Horse Regiment 
ICQ: 32038562 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 04:03:07 +1000 
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au> 
Subject: Re: variable power pools 
 
- -----Original Message----- 
From: Tracy L Birdine <hawk291@juno.com> 
 
>It still astounds me, the vast cross-section of humanity who are avid 
>gamers. 
> 
>Be nice if there were a few million more, then perhaps the world wouldn't 
>be experiencing so many problems... 
> 
 
 
 
Yeah, but what if a lot of them were white wolf gamers?  
Then we'd *have* to go to war, it'd be the right, the only  
 thing we could do to maintain our way of life :-p 
 
(note: the above is a subtle comment on human nature. Do  
not misinterpret! repeat, do not misinterpret!) 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:28:36 -0600 
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net> 
Subject: Paging Albert Deschensne 
 
Something rather weird happened yesterday; some of the email I received 
between 6:00pm and 10:00om, as well as the replies I made to those mails, 
mysteriously vanished from their respective In/Out boxes while I was 
downstairs watching a movie. 
 
One result of this is that I lost two messages from Albert Deschesne 
regarding the sale of the "Enforcers" game; since both his notes to me were 
lost, I have no way of contacting him directly. 
 
Albert, if you're reading this, I'll need your mailing address again. 
 
Damon 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 17:12:11 -0500 
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net> 
Subject: Industry News 
 
Let us all bow our head and observe a moment of silence to note the passing 
of one of America's great game companies, Avalon Hill. 
Avalon Hill were the makers of some of the best military and financial 
boardgames ever, several of which were actually adopted into school 
curriculums, as well as Victory Games (makers of the James Bond RPG) and 
Microcomputer Games who made some of the best games for home computers back 
before disk drive. 
Cause of death was not specified, but foul play is suspected. 
Avalon Hill was a subsidiary of Hasbro at the time of its death. 
 
 
============================ 
Geoff Heald 
============================ 
And it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark Ages. 
Roving bands of well-paid craftsmen fitted two extra beads to abacuses and 
sorted it out. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:07:20 -0800 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
Subject: Re: Industry News 
 
>Let us all bow our head and observe a moment of silence to note the passing 
>of one of America's great game companies, Avalon Hill. 
 
Wow that really sucks big time, I enjoy many of their games, from Panzer 
Blitz to Facts in Five to Magic Realm (which would make a killer computer 
game).  Their military bookcase games were superior to anyone else's and 
they set the standard with games such as Squad Leader.  SPI was great 
too... bummer 
 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo    	Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:06:34 -0800 
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com> 
Subject: Re: Industry News 
 
geoff heald wrote: 
>  
> Let us all bow our head and observe a moment of silence to note the passing 
> of one of America's great game companies, Avalon Hill. 
> Avalon Hill were the makers of some of the best military and financial 
> boardgames ever, several of which were actually adopted into school 
> curriculums, as well as Victory Games (makers of the James Bond RPG) and 
> Microcomputer Games who made some of the best games for home computers back 
> before disk drive. 
> Cause of death was not specified, but foul play is suspected. 
> Avalon Hill was a subsidiary of Hasbro at the time of its death. 
 
I remember seeing something about Hasbro not being interested in the 
non-family games.  Maybe we'll get lucky and somebody will obtain the 
rights. 
 
I don't play many of the AH games anymore.  Even Titan, which I really would 
like to play more of.  I got started in gaming playing Panzer-Death, Red 
Baron, 
and Squad Leader. (Plus lot's of others.)  It was then a quick jump to 
roleplaying with Fantasy Trip and then Champions some years later.  (Brief 
exposure to D&D, but just couldn't deal with it...) 
 
- -Mark 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:11:19 -0800 
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> 
Subject: RE: Help me with a few concepts 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat 
<snip> 
> 
> CHEEZE! 
> 
> I'd suggest using Drain before Transformation, except that 
> a Drain cannot 
> kill -- for that you use a Killing Attack (duh :). 
 
Good grief. 
 
If you don't want to use Drains that kill in your campaign, fine. 
However, making statements that "you can't do this", when there is no 
indication anywhere in the rules that you cannot, the optional rules 
 
for negative characters dismiss it as already covered by the negative 
BODY rules (which clearly do kill), and Steve Peterson stated that the 
other side is how "we've always played it" is overdoing it. 
 
If you want to state "this is how some people read the rules", or "it 
isn't clearly stated either way in the rules", or "this is how it is 
in my game", fine. But you aren't convincing anyone by just stating 
"this is the way it is", especially when you haven't gotten anyone to 
agree with you. Adding in the "Duh" at the end is both insulting and 
makes you look obnoxious and foolish. 
 
Filksinger 
 
------------------------------ 
 
End of champ-l-digest V1 #219 
*****************************