Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 232
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 5:38 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #232
champ-l-digest Tuesday, March 9 1999 Volume 01 : Number 232
In this issue:
RE: Teleport Against Other ??? amendment
Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
Re: Teleport Against Other ???
Re: Teleport Against Other ???
Re: Teleport Against Other ???
Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
RE: Teleport Against Other ??? amendment
Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
RE: Teleport Against Other ??? amendment
Re: Teleport Against Other ???
RE: Teleport Against Other ??? amendment
RE: Teleport Against Other ??? amendment
RE: Teleport Against Other ??? amendment
Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
Normally I wouldn't allow this, but...
Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
RE: Normally I wouldn't allow this, but...
Re: Normally I wouldn't allow this, but...
RE: Normally I wouldn't allow this, but...
RE: Normally I wouldn't allow this, but...
Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:36:31 -0600 (CST)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: RE: Teleport Against Other ??? amendment
> From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
>
> While we're on this Usable Against Other page, I'd also like to hear what
> people think about Tunneling UAO, or even more heinous, XDimensional Travel
> UAO
>
Obviously, both need STOP signs. The XDT UAO probably needs a HUGE Stop
sign. I think there should be another way for a victim to escape the
Tunneling UAO other than having tunneling or teleport themselves...
Curt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:33:03 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
Tim Gilberg wrote:
>
> > A defibrillator is nothing more than a tool that allows a medic to properly
> > practice his skills.
>
> Which begs the question: Would a taser do in a pinch?
Only if you reverse the polarity. :)
- -Mark
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:40:26 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
David A. Fair writes:
> bob.greenwade@klock.com writes:
> > And by the way people, while I was hoping to get at least two or
> > three ideas for devices that could be quickly written up in HERO
> > terms and used in emergency medical situations during play, I am
> > finding the suggestions I am getting, which are mainly just nifty
> > "special effects" ideas, to be very helpful. Damon's list was
> > especially good.
> 3. A device which knit broken bones (also Ala Star Trek) possibly an
> Aid to Body (only vs.. injuries that caused a broken bone, -1), Focus
> (bulky), RSR
Or, slightly lower tech, a cybernetic brace (assuming the bone is
appropriately treated by conventional methods first to deal with shock,
realigning the ends, etc), as BODY, Usable By Others, possibly with an
END Reserve to represent a power cell.
> 4. (A similar device could be built for burns or other injuries...)
An advanced version of Liquid Skin; combination of disinfectant,
topical blood clotting agent, pain-killer, protective sealant. Not
sure how you'd write it, perhaps a slight BODY Aid plus an skill bonus
for Paramedic.
> 6. A Tricorder-type device could be Detect vs.. Diseases, Toxins,
> Injuries and Physical Abnormalities, Focus, RSR, only vs. humanoids in
> databases (-1/2).
Actually, that'd be the McCoy "Salt and Pepper Shaker", not a
Tricorder :-).
> 7. A stasis field might be built as a Suppress vs.. Diseases, Toxins
> and Bleeding, Side Effects (STUN Drain), Bulky, RSR
Hm, can you suppress vs. things like that? Then the writeup above
for #4 would be a suppress. And the cybernetic brace would be a suppress
vs. broken limb.
> 10. A device to instantly "stitch-up" open wounds would probably be an
> aid to body AND a suppress vs.. all bleeding effects (all powers of one
> sFX), with RSR and Focus (Bulky).
>
> I will stay away from posting numbers, as that just seems to incite
> riots sometimes...Was that the kind of stuff you wanted? So, what are
> you writing? Emergency Medical Hero, or maybe Champions of the E.R.?
Somewhere, probably among rotting piles of old 3.25 floppies, are
the email archives of the time I ran a doctor in a Traveller (sf rpg)
PBEM. The chief medical oficcer on that ship was run by a medical
student, who kindly gave me all kinds of pointers for dialogue
technobabble :-). Hm, wonder if any of those files are lingering on a
web site or FTP archive somewhere.
Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:43:01 -0800
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport Against Other ???
Black Bishop wrote:
>
> Hi everyone
> one of my famous questions :
>
> I don't have my book so I don't remember if it is written somewhere, but a
> NPC is able to teleport other with a touch
> 3 little questions :
>
> 1) can she teleport enemies in the earth ?
As into a solid object? No.
> 2) Now... she teleport a wall of 2 tons like 40 meters on the head of
> someone... how many dice I should roll for damage ?
I'd base it on how much strength it takes to lift 2 tons. Now is that
English or Metric tons? Metric would be ~32 str so you get 6d6 from
that. Then add velocity damage which could be 15d6 so a grand total of
21d6. But I would also limit the damage to the Def + Body of the wall
just like knockback.
> 3) How I could set a special framework or advantage like "well I have 60
> points in TELEPORT (so VPP isn't good) now... I want to teleport 1600 Kg
> (so 20 points),
> *16inches NCM (20 points) for 20inches (20 points). Later, I want just to
> teleport myself for 50inches *4NCM (60 points), then later again just 2
> people (5 points) for 5inches (5 points) *512 NCM (50 points)"
> How I could do it ? (so could use the pool of teleport like I want)
VPP or a Multipower with different slots.
- -Mark
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 12:52:46 -0600
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Teleport Against Other ???
At 06:16 PM 3/9/99 +0100, Black Bishop wrote:
>Hi everyone
>one of my famous questions :
>
>I don't have my book so I don't remember if it is written somewhere, but a
>NPC is able to teleport other with a touch
>3 little questions :
>
>1) can she teleport enemies in the earth ?
>
Well, she's an NPC, so she can do whatever you want her to do. I wouldn't
model this with a straight Teleport UAO, though, since Teleport UAO
specifically forbids it. How you'd model this depends on what you want the
effect to be - does merging with the dirt disrupt the cells of the
teleportee? Could be a massive KA linked to Teleport. Does it trap the
teleportee? Could be a big Entangle, and if they can't breathe there's an
NND as well.
>2) Now... she teleport a wall of 2 tons like 40 meters on the head of
>someone... how many dice I should roll for damage ?
>
I'd base it on the STR necessary to lift the weight (about 33). And if you
mean you teleport it 40 meters *above* the target's head, I'd add velocity
damage too.
>3) How I could set a special framework or advantage like "well I have 60
>points in TELEPORT (so VPP isn't good) now... I want to teleport 1600 Kg
>(so 20 points),
>*16inches NCM (20 points) for 20inches (20 points). Later, I want just to
>teleport myself for 50inches *4NCM (60 points), then later again just 2
>people (5 points) for 5inches (5 points) *512 NCM (50 points)"
>How I could do it ? (so could use the pool of teleport like I want)
>
I'm not going to try to answer this one without a rulebook handy.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:58:42 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport Against Other ???
Black Bishop writes:
> I don't have my book so I don't remember if it is written somewhere, but a
> NPC is able to teleport other with a touch
>
> 1) can she teleport enemies in the earth ?
Hm, I know that the 3rd edition had "backlash" rules, so if a
teleporter *attempted* to teleport into a solid object, they took
damage (not an attack, i.e. it ignores all defenses and just gets
applied as damage) because of "nervous system shock". I think that if
I were GMing and a teleporter attempted to use their teleport power to
teleport somebody else, I'd rule that both to them take the damage
(if I were in a good mood) or maybe even that the teleporter alone
takes the damage.
The right way to buy the "teleport solid object into somebody"
power is as an RKA. Why it's not an immense RKA that immediately
kills the target is a matter of SFX handwaving. The target/object
only slightly overlap, or objects have a natural system integrity that
"resists" teleportative comb, or the teleport ability instinctively
tries to avoid doing it, or whatever.
> 2) Now... she teleport a wall of 2 tons like 40 meters on the head of
> someone... how many dice I should roll for damage ?
The same as you would if a brick dropped the 2 tone wall on
somebody's head from 10 flights up. I know there are falling rules and
throwing rules in the BBB, don't recall if there are "dropping stuff on"
rules.
> 3) How I could set a special framework or advantage like "well I have 60
> points in TELEPORT (so VPP isn't good) now...
Use a VPP, just with an extreme limited SFX (maybe -1). Talk it
over with the GM (or with the player if you're the GM) and see what
kind of range of FX you'd want. "Limited SFX" is -1/2, but if it's a
fairly "conventional" teleport SFX, I'd say that "limited to
teleporting effects" should be worth maybe -3/4 to -1, particularly
depending on how narrowly the effect will be interpreted. As a GM I'd
prefer to do it based on effect rather than "teleports only", since it
gives me a bit more room for plot devices.
Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 11:09:19 PST
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
On Mon, 08 Mar 1999 Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> wrote:
>
> However, if a taser is a No-Range RKA because its jolt can cause
cardiac
>arrest (as you've been known to assert), I'd have to insist that a
>defribillator has some game mechanic for getting the heart re-started.
>Perhaps a moderate Healing Aid with appropriate Limitations, and some
>bonuses to Paramedic.
How about the Healing Aid with a Limited Power: "Only if patient is
below 0 BOD" (-2)? Or even "Only if patient is at -(Starting BOD)".
Ergo, it only works if the patient's heart is stopped and he is on the
verge of death.
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 11:25:13 PST
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Teleport Against Other ??? amendment
>> From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
>>
>> While we're on this Usable Against Other page, I'd also like to hear
what
>> people think about Tunneling UAO, or even more heinous, XDimensional
Travel
As far as UAO Tunneling is concerned, I think this is one of those cases
where the SFX may be better represented by a different Power. Either
use Entangle to represent relatively shallow burials, or some sort of KA
to represent the old "entrapped under tons of rock effect.
As for XDimensional Travel, I think that there'd have to be some
mechanism within the new dimensional locale for getting back, or I'd
just plain disallow it as anything other than an NPC plot device power
used to kick off a scenario. I.e., "You are transported to the
Legendary Lands of Thrim. You suspect that if you find a powerful
enough wizard, he could probably send you back home, for a price." You
know, quests 'n' stuff.
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:30:45 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jesse Thomas wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Mar 1999 Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> wrote:
> >
> > However, if a taser is a No-Range RKA because its jolt can cause
> cardiac
> >arrest (as you've been known to assert), I'd have to insist that a
> >defribillator has some game mechanic for getting the heart re-started.
> >Perhaps a moderate Healing Aid with appropriate Limitations, and some
> >bonuses to Paramedic.
>
> How about the Healing Aid with a Limited Power: "Only if patient is
> below 0 BOD" (-2)? Or even "Only if patient is at -(Starting BOD)".
> Ergo, it only works if the patient's heart is stopped and he is on the
> verge of death.
IMHO, cardiac arrest and BOD levels are completely separate from each
other. One can go into cardiac arrest without taking any 'damage', and
one can take lots of damage without going into cardiac arrest.
If I really really had to work it in game mechanics, I'd do the zapping
paddles as Transform: Person in Cardiac Arrest to Person Not in Cardiac
Arrest.
On the other hand, I think this is getting to the level of defining a
bonfire as a 1-hex AE RKA vs ED with a linked CE: light and heat. With
continuing charges (firewood). In other words...is the important thing
the writeup, or is it the game effects? I'd say the latter.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 10:13:42 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
At 09:45 AM 3/9/99 -0500, David A. Fair wrote:
>An MRI unit could be built as Detect Injury, Extra Time, Focus (Bulky),
>Requires a skill roll (operators skill), activation (to see if patient
>moved).
Would it be Detect Injury, or a form of Detect Matter (detecting
particular types of matter) with N-Ray and Targeting? (The Targeting
element would be used by the operator to recognize injuries.) After all,
it doesn't come up a blank slate if there's no injury there.
>An X-ray might be similar (no Activation), but based on N-ray vision,
>and perhaps with a teeny tiny thought given to side effects.
I tend to think of the side effects of X-Rays as a Radiation Accident.
(I personally have a similar take on the "cardiac arrest" effect of tasers.)
>An Ultrasound could be bought as Sonar, only inside soft tissue, Extra
>Time, Focus (Bulky), Requires a skill roll (operators skill).
I can buy that.
>I would do a Defib as Aid to Body (1-2d6), only vs.. Body lost due to
>Cardiac Arrest (-2), Bulky, Requires a skill roll, side effects (no
>range RKA)...but then you have to write up the cardiac arrest...or just
>consider it a +5 to paramedic rolls, on vs.. Cardiac arrest patients
>(-2)
Yeah, I think most medical equipment would be bought as 3-point Skill
Levels with Medical Skills (Paramedic, appropriate PSes, appropriate
Sciences), with Focus, Limited Power (only for a certain purpose), and in
many cases RSR.
>For near-high-tech medical:
> 1. Generic Anti-Venom/Toxin: xd6 Dispel vs.. all powers of SF/X:
>Poison/Toxin, Gestures (swallow pill, injection, etc), Focus (Fragile),
>Charges.
Probably.
> 2. HypoSpray (Star Trekian): xd6 Aid to STUN, Gestures (Injection),
>Focus (Fragile), Charges.
Ditto; though in both of these cases I think we're looking at drugs and
chemicals rather than strictly equipment. In other words, while good
stuff, it's a slightly different aspect than what I'm after.
> 3. A device which knit broken bones (also Ala Star Trek) possibly an
>Aid to Body (only vs.. injuries that caused a broken bone, -1), Focus
>(bulky), RSR
> 4. (A similar device could be built for burns or other injuries...)
My current list includes a portable device that quickly cauterizes
wounds. I'd like to come up with a reasonable SFX for the above.
> 5. A Biofeedback system to induce calm and relaxation would possibly
>be bought just as an Aid to Paramedic Skill, or perhaps as a Single
>Command Mind Control (Relax), Bulky, RSR.
A very popular choice! :-] Actually the first thing on my list (that
is, before I even brought this up to the HML) was an Alpha Wave Inducer for
surgical purposes. I bought it as Suppress STUN.
> 6. A Tricorder-type device could be Detect vs.. Diseases, Toxins,
>Injuries and Physical Abnormalities, Focus, RSR, only vs. humanoids in
>databases (-1/2).
> 7. A stasis field might be built as a Suppress vs.. Diseases, Toxins
>and Bleeding, Side Effects (STUN Drain), Bulky, RSR
These two things are just a little bit beyond the tech level I'm working
with, though the former could be a product under development.
> 8. A portable artificial organ (heart, lung, liver, etc.) would likely
>be aid to body (only vs.. damage to that organ) and/or a bonus to
>paramedic rolls (bulky, RSR, . A permanent artificial organ would
>likely be reflected on the character sheet as a disadvantage and
>possibly lowered CHAR's (or higher, if you want the Steve Austin type
>of stuff). I don't think any powers are needed to model those...
Hm. I gotta ruminate on this one. I like the concept, if nothing else....
> 9. A fictional device that repaired internal injuries and hemmohraging
>(spelled wrong, I know) might be bought as an aid to body, or, since
>internal bleeding would likely be "bought" with the gradual effect
>modifier, it could be modeled as a suppress vs.. all bleeding effects
>(all powers of one sFX), with RSR and Focus (Bulky).
This is a good one! I little tweaking ought to make it work nicely.
> 10. A device to instantly "stitch-up" open wounds would probably be an
>aid to body AND a suppress vs.. all bleeding effects (all powers of one
>sFX), with RSR and Focus (Bulky).
The above cauterization device will do nicely, for now; though something
like what you describe here might be in development.
>I will stay away from posting numbers, as that just seems to incite
>riots sometimes...Was that the kind of stuff you wanted? So, what are
>you writing? Emergency Medical Hero, or maybe Champions of the E.R.?
It's a focus book on the high-tech scene in San Angelo, focusing on the
community of Arroyo Verde. The list in question (I'll go ahead and spill
it) is for a company that makes advanced medical equipment.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 10:14:20 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
At 09:33 AM 3/9/99 -0800, Mark Lemming wrote:
>Tim Gilberg wrote:
>>
>> > A defibrillator is nothing more than a tool that allows a medic to
properly
>> > practice his skills.
>>
>> Which begs the question: Would a taser do in a pinch?
>
>Only if you reverse the polarity. :)
Quick! Reverse the polarity of the neutron flow! ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 11:41:31 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: Teleport Against Other ??? amendment
At 12:26 PM 3/9/99 -0500, Brian Wawrow wrote:
>While we're on this Usable Against Other page, I'd also like to hear what
>people think about Tunneling UAO, or even more heinous, XDimensional Travel
>UAO
What I think about any Movement Power UAO is, slap a big Stop Sign on
it. It's an effect that makes logical sense, but it's so potentially
unbalancing that the GM has to be careful in its administration, especially
when a PC has it.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 11:39:46 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport Against Other ???
At 06:16 PM 3/9/99 +0100, Black Bishop wrote:
>Hi everyone
>one of my famous questions :
>
>I don't have my book so I don't remember if it is written somewhere, but a
>NPC is able to teleport other with a touch
>3 little questions :
>
>1) can she teleport enemies in the earth ?
I don't know, so I'll pass on this one.
If it turns out to be a GM's call, though, I'd recommend a "no."
>2) Now... she teleport a wall of 2 tons like 40 meters on the head of
>someone... how many dice I should roll for damage ?
I think there have been a couple of previous discussions on this, either
on this list or elsewhere. The ruling I remember is that it would do a
number of dice equal to the amount that would be caused by falling, with a
maximum based on the STR needed to lift the object and a minimum based on
half that. In this case, it would take 33 STR to lift, so the maximum
would be 6-1/2d6 and the minimum would be 3d6; falling 40m (20") does 15d6,
so this specific application would actually do 6-1/2d6.
>3) How I could set a special framework or advantage like "well I have 60
>points in TELEPORT (so VPP isn't good) now... I want to teleport 1600 Kg
>(so 20 points),
>*16inches NCM (20 points) for 20inches (20 points). Later, I want just to
>teleport myself for 50inches *4NCM (60 points), then later again just 2
>people (5 points) for 5inches (5 points) *512 NCM (50 points)"
>How I could do it ? (so could use the pool of teleport like I want)
There are only two ways to do this under the existing rules, and one
other possibility with a proposed variant.
1. Get a VPP, "Teleport Only" (-2).
2. Get a Multipower with all of the elements in variable slots -- one
with nothing but base inches, one with the minimum in inches and the rest
in NCM, and one with the minimum in inches and the rest in extra mass.
3. Buy Teleport with a +1/2 "Variable Result" Advantage.
Of these three, I'd opt for #2.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 14:48:53 -0500
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: RE: Teleport Against Other ??? amendment
At 11:25 AM 3/9/99 PST, Jesse Thomas wrote:
>
>
>As for XDimensional Travel, I think that there'd have to be some
>mechanism within the new dimensional locale for getting back, or I'd
>just plain disallow it as anything other than an NPC plot device power
>used to kick off a scenario. I.e., "You are transported to the
>Legendary Lands of Thrim. You suspect that if you find a powerful
>enough wizard, he could probably send you back home, for a price." You
>know, quests 'n' stuff.
>
As a general principle, I agree. I could also see it for a PC, though, with
significant limitations to serve a specific role in a given campaign. I'm
thinking of ROM: Spaceknight, whose Neutralizer (I think) could banish the
evil Wraiths to Limbo. This made him Earth's best defender against the
Wraiths, which defined him as a hero.
Maybe the Exorcist can dispel demons & ghosts, or Captain Neilson can
banish the fictional characters who escape from TV Land via the Boob Tube.
These could be cool powers which give PC's their moments of glory without
unbalancing a campaign.
Also, one could allow the X-Dim Travel to work on anyone, but give the
character a powerful incentive not to use it. Maybe The Bishop can banish
people eternally to Hell, but doesn't feel it's his place to do so; a
battle with a formidable villain could become a crisis of conscience for
the character. Or maybe the Teletuber can send people to an idyllic meadow
dimension, but won't do so to villains lest Dr. Destroyer be allowed to
inflict his cruelty on defenseless Ying-Yang, Chip-Dip, Ca-Ca, and Yo.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:01:37 -0600 (CST)
From: gilberg@ou.edu
Subject: RE: Teleport Against Other ??? amendment
>As far as UAO Tunneling is concerned, I think this is one of those cases
>where the SFX may be better represented by a different Power. Either
>use Entangle to represent relatively shallow burials, or some sort of KA
>to represent the old "entrapped under tons of rock effect.
For many cases, yes. But my favorite application of UAO Tunneling
is Tunneling, AE, ranged, UAO to represent the target(s) suddenly being in
some sort of pit. Of course the hole does not close up behind.
>As for XDimensional Travel, I think that there'd have to be some
>mechanism within the new dimensional locale for getting back, or I'd
>just plain disallow it as anything other than an NPC plot device power
>used to kick off a scenario. I.e., "You are transported to the
>Legendary Lands of Thrim. You suspect that if you find a powerful
>enough wizard, he could probably send you back home, for a price." You
>know, quests 'n' stuff.
Very much a plot device. Though how about a "Maze" spell. INT roll
needed to escape from the other dimension.
-Tim Gilberg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 15:06:29 -0500
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: RE: Teleport Against Other ??? amendment
At 02:01 PM 3/9/99 -0600, gilberg@ou.edu wrote:
>
>>As for XDimensional Travel, I think that there'd have to be some
>>mechanism within the new dimensional locale for getting back, or I'd
>>just plain disallow it as anything other than an NPC plot device power
>>used to kick off a scenario. I.e., "You are transported to the
>>Legendary Lands of Thrim. You suspect that if you find a powerful
>>enough wizard, he could probably send you back home, for a price." You
>>know, quests 'n' stuff.
>
> Very much a plot device. Though how about a "Maze" spell. INT roll
>needed to escape from the other dimension.
>
Ooh. I like that one. And the amount you make (or miss) the roll by
determines the number of turns it takes to escape...
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:11:58 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
From: Steven J. Owens <puff@netcom.com>
>David A. Fair writes:
<snip>
>> 6. A Tricorder-type device could be Detect vs.. Diseases, Toxins,
>> Injuries and Physical Abnormalities, Focus, RSR, only vs. humanoids in
>> databases (-1/2).
>
> Actually, that'd be the McCoy "Salt and Pepper Shaker", not a
>Tricorder :-).
It is defined as a "Medical Tricorder".
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:19:44 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for high-tech medical equipment that
>might be appropriate for a superhero world?
> I'm not looking for ultra-advanced technology, but stuff that's just a
>little bit beyond what we have now -- ideally, something that's currently
>in the later stages of development in the real world, or that has only
>recently come into use.
> Equipment for hospitals, clinics, ambulances, medical labs, and just
>about any other aspect of the medical industry is welcome.
Simulate Death, UBO, defined as cryogenics. Why? Because everything happens
at 1/10th normal speed in Simulate Death. This qualifies it at low-level
suspended animation.
I used a variant of this once in a weird campaign where antigravity and
hyperdrive were incredibly simple devices that _everyone_ developed by sheer
random chance somewhere in the Bronze Age. Eventually, alien conquerors
found Earth, and, knowing Earth was primitive because they detected no
antigravity, proceeded to land and terrify the natives with their
blunderbusses. Somehow, the Marine bodyguard for the diplomats and
scientists meeting the ship were not impressed.
Even assuming various factors, I still needed a way for significant numbers
of aliens to survive days or weeks in space. Long practice with primitive
sealants, quicklime, and primitive oxygen plants didn't wash well for a crew
of more than a handful. To get around this, I assumed that a drug from their
planet gave Simulate Death, UBO. They gave this to passengers. For long
trips, they'd wake you up once a week for food, water, and elimination.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 15:24:36 -0500
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Normally I wouldn't allow this, but...
Tim Gilbert and I both came up with some fairly legitimate PC uses of
Extradimensional Travel Usable Against Others. What other powers can people
come up with that would be highly unbalanced in unrestrained use, but might
be balanced by some well chosen Limitations, SFX, or other considerations?
When, for example, might you allow a PC to have an NND RKA? Put Skills in a
VPP? Drastically exceed campaign limits for CV or damage? Create useful
combat equipment with a Transform?
In other words, what are the trickiest situations you can imagine meriting
GM's permission?
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 12:37:22 PST
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999 "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> wrote:
>
>IMHO, cardiac arrest and BOD levels are completely separate from each
>other. One can go into cardiac arrest without taking any 'damage', and
>one can take lots of damage without going into cardiac arrest.
Well, that's an interesting philosophical question. Observe:
Kirk: "How did he die?"
Spock: "His heart has stopped."
McCoy: "Well, of course his heart's stopped. He's dead."
Whether death causes cardiac arrest or cardiac arrest causes death, it
is clear that the two events are closely linked. Since defibrillators
are often used to save the lives of patients whose injuries have sent
them into cardiac arrest long enough for a surgeon to repair the wounds,
I think that it is safe to say that being at negative BOD is a perfectly
good condition for a "defibrillator" Power. This would also work in the
case of cardiac arrest brought on by factors other than 'injury'. After
all, the net effect of a heart attack is that it kills you. It may take
as little as a second or as much as 10 minutes, or even more. Sounds
like an uncontrolled KA or BOD Drain to me. Again, when you hit a
certain level of negative BOD, you die. The defibrillator gives you
back enough "BOD" to allow the doctors to repair the cause of the
KA/Drain. Simple.
>If I really really had to work it in game mechanics, I'd do the zapping
>paddles as Transform: Person in Cardiac Arrest to Person Not in Cardiac
>Arrest.
I hate to say this, because I do respect you, and I've been guilty of
this in the past myself, but I've always regarded a dependence on
Transform to model every effect under the sun a sign of mental weakness.
Dang. I hope the grammar police don't see this...
>On the other hand, I think this is getting to the level of defining a
>bonfire as a 1-hex AE RKA vs ED with a linked CE: light and heat.
>With continuing charges (firewood).
What's wrong with that? I like it. See if I don't use it in my next
game.
>In other words...is the important thing
>the writeup, or is it the game effects? I'd say the latter.
And I say, why should one be more important than the other? Indeed, HOW
can one be more important? The writeup IS the game effects.
I mean, what if I want to design my character, Asbestos, to be able to
survive in a burning building? If I can't look at the stats for a
'typical burning building', I have to wing it and hope my GM agrees with
my interpretation. (I've actually done this. Asbestos is one of my
all-time favorite characters.) Otherwise, the first time my character
walks into a burning building to save a kitten and dies because the GM
thinks smoke inhalation is an NND vs Life Support: Doesn't Breathe and I
bought myself Life Support: Breathe in Hostile Environment (Smoke), I'm
going to be horribly embarrassed. Same thing if I want to design
'Paramedic Boy, the Human Defibrillator'. I have to know what the
conditions of cardiac arrest are, so I can build myself a Power to
counteract it, or I'm just a delusional kid in a silly uniform...
Instead of a delusional kid in a silly uniform with the power to save
lives.
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:53:46 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Normally I wouldn't allow this, but...
I've certainly seen things that looked abusive on paper fit well into a
game.
Here's a spell called Taxis' Terrible Torture Bowl used by a buddy of
mine...
2D6 RKA
NND (does BOD) defense is Faith magic
Continuous, Uncontrolled
0END
Time Delay
Now, as you can see, the active on this thing was about 130 points. There
were a lot of limits on it. The basic idea is that Taxis would go hide in
his lab all morning and build maybe 3 of these because he kept failing his
spell roll and each try took him an hour and he needed obscure components,
etc. etc. His quest for enough limits to make this feasible lead to our
expression 'Eat The Baby' which came to symbolize any really over-the-top
limitations. Munchkie would be an appropriate label here.
Anyway, the special effect was that Taxis would summon these angry spirits
and imprision them in a little iron ball about the size of a honeydew melon.
He would seal the little bowl with C-Clamps so when he threw the torture
bowl at you, the C-Clamps would spring off and the angry spirits would
devour you internally. The harsh thing was that you would take that attack
every one of Taxis' phases for the rest of your life which was usually not
that long.
Certainly, this would be abusive in most games but the GM wasn't to keen on
the whole BOD on a geometric scale thing and had a more linear approach to
BOD, thus we would scrap demons and monsters with BOD in the hundreds.
My own special abuse in that game was a summon spell. Since my character was
a flesh mage, I got into this thing where I would build custom life forms.
So, I had a summon with a limited group that would summon one of six
automatons which were all symbiotic weapons. I had a grenade launcher (other
spells to make the grenades), a big HKA with a linked BOD Transfer, heavy
armour and so on. Very abusive.
My most abusive grenade was called the Berzerker Bomb. You fire it into a
castle, it summons 32 200pt. creatures with massive HKA's and high SPD's.
They had the disad 'Berzerk when conscious'. Their first hit with the HKA
would start a 5 minute timer. When the 5 minutes was up, they disolved into
a cloud of poisonous gas. It turned out to be just a brutal siege weapon.
I don't imagine I'll ever be in such an out-of-control game ever again. We
had to stop it because it just became too much. In fact, there was a PC in
that game for a while that did have a 1 Charge XD Movement. The focus for it
was a big stamp that said 'Void' on it. So harsh.
There was another game where the guy who played Taxis had this guy Chosum.
By the end of it, he could go desolid and do autofire drains against BOD
that effected solid targets. The joke was that Chosum would stick his hand
up your @$$ and drain the $#it right out of you. Draining BOD could
definitely kill you in that game.
Needless to say, now that I'm GMing, I keep a much closer eye on game
balance.
BRI, the moderate
] Tim Gilbert and I both came up with some fairly legitimate PC uses of
] Extradimensional Travel Usable Against Others. What other
] powers can people
] come up with that would be highly unbalanced in unrestrained
] use, but might
] be balanced by some well chosen Limitations, SFX, or other
] considerations?
] When, for example, might you allow a PC to have an NND RKA?
] Put Skills in a
] VPP? Drastically exceed campaign limits for CV or damage?
] Create useful
] combat equipment with a Transform?
]
] In other words, what are the trickiest situations you can
] imagine meriting
] GM's permission?
]
] - Bill Svitavsky
]
]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 21:17:00 GMT
From: mhoram@relia.net (Curtis A Gibson)
Subject: Re: Normally I wouldn't allow this, but...
On Tue, 09 Mar 1999 15:24:36 -0500, you wrote:
>In other words, what are the trickiest situations you can imagine =
meriting
>GM's permission?
>
>- Bill Svitavsky
>
The two most unusuall and somewhat abusive things I've done or
allowed... Combat skill levels in a VPP. The SFX was super martial
abilites so it came off OK- I was the GM there.
As a player. Black Cat my KK style martial artist has damage up near
the campaign max, and then a 10d6 HA on top of that. The HA has
1/2DCV, full phase, 2 charges, takes 15 end and she takes 3d6 of stun
when she uses it. It is her all out push. It gives her 'extreme
damage' on par with the brick's Haymaker, with even greater
restictions. She has only used it 3 times in the year or so she has
had the power (one of those being on the campaign version of
Juggernaut.) two of the times she used it, she KOed herself from the
stun she takes.=20
- -Mhoram
"Sometimes you have to thwap Evil on the nose with
the rolled-up newspaper of Justice! Bad dog! Bad! Bad!" --The Tick
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 17:14:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: RE: Normally I wouldn't allow this, but...
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Brian Wawrow wrote:
<SNIP>
It is at times like this that I wonder if Hero Games would go for
"The Ultimate in F****d-up Hero".
Yes, that was some over-the-top abusive nonsense... it was also really
funny to read.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Let my glory be that I had such friends as these."
W.B. Yeats
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 17:22:17 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Normally I wouldn't allow this, but...
I'd be the first to volunteer for writing it, having played Hero while
f*#@&d-up on many occassions as well as being involved in some really
f*#%##%$^&$&^**?/'d up games.
] It is at times like this that I wonder if Hero Games would go for
] "The Ultimate in F****d-up Hero".
]
] Yes, that was some over-the-top abusive nonsense... it was also really
] funny to read.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 16:37:31 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: High-Tech Medical Equipment
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jesse Thomas wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Mar 1999 "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> wrote:
> >
> >IMHO, cardiac arrest and BOD levels are completely separate from each
> >other. One can go into cardiac arrest without taking any 'damage', and
> >one can take lots of damage without going into cardiac arrest.
> Whether death causes cardiac arrest or cardiac arrest causes death, it
> is clear that the two events are closely linked.
True...I expect that someone going into cardiac arrest will start taking
STUN and BOD damage quite quickly, since they aren't getting any oxygen
flow to the brain.
> Since defibrillators
> are often used to save the lives of patients whose injuries have sent
> them into cardiac arrest long enough for a surgeon to repair the wounds,
> I think that it is safe to say that being at negative BOD is a perfectly
> good condition for a "defibrillator" Power. This would also work in the
> case of cardiac arrest brought on by factors other than 'injury'. After
> all, the net effect of a heart attack is that it kills you. It may take
> as little as a second or as much as 10 minutes, or even more. Sounds
> like an uncontrolled KA or BOD Drain to me.
Hmm. That would cause the condition of someone who goes into cardiac
arrest, but you can't use the paddles on them until they've taken a
certain amount of BOD damage - that's the sort of thing I was trying to
avoid, really.
I don't really see cardiac arrest as an uncontrolled KA any more than I
see Recovery as a variation on AID - they have some similarities, but they
have plenty of differences, too.
> >If I really really had to work it in game mechanics, I'd do the zapping
> >paddles as Transform: Person in Cardiac Arrest to Person Not in Cardiac
> >Arrest.
>
> I hate to say this, because I do respect you, and I've been guilty of
> this in the past myself, but I've always regarded a dependence on
> Transform to model every effect under the sun a sign of mental weakness.
Well, I don't use it to model every effect under the sun...after all, my
'bonfire' writeup didn't include a 'Transform Flammable Objects into
Ash'...;)
But honestly, it does fit in to the basic Transform power type: it's
basically an all-or-nothing effect (either your heart is started or it
isn't), it's a reversible effect (hit them with the defibrillator again
or do something else to stop their heart), and it deals with things that
really aren't part of the game mechanics (cardiac arrest) so there's not
a better way to do it.
Of course, if your GM is the type that compulsively writes up
/everything/, well, then you have more of a point. (But how would you
write up the common cold? /Should/ you even write up the common cold?)
> >On the other hand, I think this is getting to the level of defining a
> >bonfire as a 1-hex AE RKA vs ED with a linked CE: light and heat.
> >With continuing charges (firewood).
>
> What's wrong with that? I like it. See if I don't use it in my next
> game.
Well, nothing's technically /wrong/ with it. But hang on a sec:
> And I say, why should one be more important than the other? Indeed, HOW
> can one be more important? The writeup IS the game effects.
Ah...no...one can have game effects without having a writeup in the HERO
power system. As an example, look at the drowning and falling rules.
Both of those cause damage, but neither are written up as HERO powers.
> I mean, what if I want to design my character, Asbestos, to be able to
> survive in a burning building? If I can't look at the stats for a
> 'typical burning building', I have to wing it and hope my GM agrees with
> my interpretation.
You could always ask them. That's what I generally do...
> Otherwise, the first time my character
> walks into a burning building to save a kitten and dies because the GM
> thinks smoke inhalation is an NND vs Life Support: Doesn't Breathe and I
> bought myself Life Support: Breathe in Hostile Environment (Smoke), I'm
> going to be horribly embarrassed.
Of course, if the GM didn't compulsively write up 'smoke inhalation' in
the HERO powers system (instead just having some guidelines like
'characters take this much STUN, etc per phase), then he can look and say,
'You have Breathe Smoke? OK, you aren't affected.'
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #232
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Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 01:08 PM