Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 251
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Monday, March 29, 1999 8:12 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #251
champ-l-digest Monday, March 29 1999 Volume 01 : Number 251
In this issue:
Mechanon Invasion
Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
Re: Rules Mechanics Questions (Desolid & Turn Mode Costs)
Re: Whip Multipower
Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
Re: Entangle Question (oh, Mr. Long?)
Re: Entangle Question (oh, Mr. Long?)
Re: Rules Mechanics Questions (Desolid & Turn Mode Costs)
Re: Whip Multipower
Re: Entangle Question (oh, Mr. Long?)
Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
Re: Absorbtion (Always On) --Is this a crock?
Re: Whip Multipower
RE: CHAR: Beholder
Re: Absorption (Always On) <-Is this a crock?
Re: Swingers
Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:57:47 -0500
From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Mechanon Invasion
I'm not confident this made it to the list, so I'm sending it one more
time:
- -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
A while back I was asked about published robot writeups, because I was
planning to do a Mechanon invasion. A few people said they'd like to hea=
r
how it went, so I thought I'd post a summary of what has transpired so fa=
r.
If you have any suggestions on how to proceed from here, feel free to
throw 'em my way. The story below happens in the New Millennium universe=
and uses the NM version of Mechanon, but we're using 4th Edition rules. =
I'll skip over some of the role-playing moments such as an interview with=
a
newswoman and stuff, so only the major events are mentioned below. Here
goes....
<Caution: Minor spoilers on various robot writeups>
The PC group has 3 heroes:
* Protoman: a golden-age hero was was literally yanked out of a comic bo=
ok
into our reality by a kid with mysterious mutant powers. Recent subplot:=
=
The kid accidentally just brought Protoman's arch-foe, Dr. Blitzkrieg, ou=
t
of the comic as well, but so far the villain has been laying low.
* Dragon-4: An ex-military guy who was essentially modeled after the
soldiers in the Rainbow Six computer game. His gun shoots energy instead=
of real bullets, but he's basically a commando.
* Homicide: This is a darkness controller, sorta...most of his attacks ar=
e
No Range and are just enhanced punches (like Double Knockback or whatever=
).
You may be wondering what that has to do with darkness, and actually I'm=
wondering the same thing--this player is notoriously bad with concepts so=
I've learned to let it slide...this is actually his 3rd concept for this
game and, believe it or not, is more cohesive than the first two. I thin=
k
his murderous name is supposed to indicate his vigilante tendencies. =
<shrug>
The story so far:
* Dragon-4 gets a tip that there's going to be a robbery of a warehouse o=
f
fur coats. Protoman, on patrol, sees Dragon-4 on the roof looking throug=
h
the scope on his sniper rifle, so he flies down to see what's going on. =
The two end up foiling the robbery. This is basically a "first meeting"
scenario...Homicide isn't involved because the player was late and we
didn't want to wait for him. After this battle (one-sided, since the
thieves are normals), the heroes go their own way. At one point, Protoma=
n
catches a glimpse of a small robot (the small cone-shaped floater from th=
e
MAVRIC adventure in Champions Presents #2) watching from the other side o=
f
the alley, but it disappears as soon as it has been spotted.
* There's a big explosion from the direction of the vast PanStar laborato=
ry
complex. The heroes separately rush to the scene, and arrive at about th=
e
same time--Homicide included. They see a big hole blown out of the wall =
on
the 2nd floor of one of the buildings...PanStar security is nowhere to be=
seen. They get close and take a look, and they see a bunch of high-tech
machinery, 6 robots (Techcommandos from the MAVRIC adventure), and two
scientists huddled in a corner. Some of the robots are just guarding, an=
d
others are fiddling with the machinery. The heroes attack. One of the
robots says, "we must secure the power source for our master," but the
heroes are wrapped up in trying to save the hostages. The robots end up
escaping with the "power source" from the machinery, but not before a few=
of them fall to the heroes. Dragon-4 and Homicide both notice a
cone-shaped bot like the one mentioned above, but it slips away.
* The heroes hear of an attack in the park...robots like the ones they sa=
w
at PanStar are walking through the park blasting at monuments, people,
benches, and so on. They rush to the park, and find that the local polic=
e
and a few Guard units have the entire park closed off but they haven't
moved in yet. The heroes charge in, and find the robots near a lake. =
Dragon-4 helps the few normals who are cowering behind bushes and whatnot=
,
while the other two engage the 2 robots that are marching down the path. =
Protoman knocks them over with a big wave of water from the lake
(superstrength...I just made up some rules for it on the fly and had him
roll some dice). Then, 6 more Techcommandos come marching out of the lak=
e,
followed by one of those "leader" type commandos from the MAVRIC adventur=
e
(I forget their name). It was an ambush! As the robots approach, they
suddenly freeze and a sinister robotic voice comes from all of them, as
well as every other speaker in the city--Mechanon basically announces tha=
t
his robot army has taken control of Bay City and resistance is
futile...that sort of thing. About the same time, the heroes notice that=
the sky seems to have a weird green tint to it. <end session 1--nice
cliffhanger, I thought>
* The heroes commence to battling the robot ambush, but they are having a=
tough time of it (those robots were tougher than I thought...high defense=
s,
plus they only take BODY!). The leader type is hardly even scratched. =
They are beginning to despair, when suddenly another cape with sharp claw=
s
appears and shreds one of the robots. He helps some, but the situation
still looks grim. Then the leader robot announces that their master
requires their presence, so the robots all take off at top speed (they're=
faster than any of the PCs), except for one with a damaged leg who is
limping along. The heroes make short work of it. Then they learn that
this other cape is Shadowbeast (see New Millennium source material for mo=
re
details)...he tells them that the entire city has erupted in battle--robo=
ts
are destroying everything and killing people. They talk for a little bit=
but then Shadowbeast rushes off to save lives (a hint to the PCs, which
they didn't take me up on). Shadowbeast had lopped the head off of the
first robot he destroyed, so Dragon-4 wants to take it to the lab to see =
if
he can figure out how to tune in to the frequency that the robots are usi=
ng
to communicate. Before the heroes can split up, though, they hear a
firefight from a few streets over....
* They investigate, and see two police squad cars barricading a street...=
4
cops are behind the cars, firing revolvers and a shotgun at a huge robot
which is marching down the street toward them (this is that big hulking b=
ot
from the Viper sourcebook...I think it's called the Mark VII or
something--it has a claw on one arm, and three gun barrels on the other).=
=
Dragon-4 enters a building so he can get a shot from the 2nd or 3rd floor=
. =
Protoman attempts a move-through but fails, and then he is swatted into a=
building by the robot's claw arm. Homicide jumps in a squad car and just=
rams it into the bot...major knockback occurs. Protoman then flies up to=
the bot and just rips the missile launcher off of its shoulder. Then
Protoman flies straight up and throws the missile pack back at the robot.=
=
A huge explosion results...Dragon-4 gets into his sniper position just in=
time to see the robot go up in flame. (This robot had surprisingly low
defenses as compared to the Techcommando writeups...if I had noticed this=
beforehand, I probably would have swapped their PD/ED values)
* Dragon-4 goes to the lab and they decide to meet back at the park. =
Protoman flies up into the sky to investigate the green tint...he discove=
rs
that there is a big energy dome encompassing a large part of Bay City, as=
well as part of the bay itself. He flies out into the bay, goes underwat=
er
and starts digging at the sea floor, but is not able to find a bottom to
the energy dome. They're trapped! During this time, Homicide's player h=
as
a decided lack of inspiration and basically just stands around waiting fo=
r
the meeting time.
* While Protoman is flying about investigating things, he sees a figure
perched on top of an antenna which is on the roof of a skyscraper. He ge=
ts
closer, and sees that it is Shadowbeast. Shadowbeast tells him more abou=
t
the robot rampage and the deaths of innocent people--the robots now seem =
to
be rounding up some people and taking them off somewhere. He also says
that he has been gathering refugees and is hiding them in the basement of=
that skyscraper. He also wonders aloud where the heck the Champions are,=
and why they aren't helping. Their base on Thunder Island (? -- I can't
remember the name exactly, but that doesn't sound right) is inside the
dome. =
* Protoman then goes to find the kid who brought him out of the comic, to=
make sure he's safe. The kid is crying when Protoman finds him, and
Protoman tries to find out what is wrong. The kid mutters stuff like "it=
was an accident" and "I didn't mean to do it." Finally, the kid looks
Protoman in the eye and says, "I did it again." Protoman's player freaks=
out at this point, because he assumes (correctly, although he hasn't had =
a
chance to verify it yet) that Dr. Blitzkrieg is now loose in this world. =
Meanwhile, Dragon-4 studies the robot skull for some time and finally
figures out the frequency, and is able to listen in on communications.
* Mechanon makes another announcement, saying that some rogue paranormals=
have been skirmishing with his army and it will not be tolerated. =
Paranormals should surrender immediately, as the robot army has been
ordered to kill them on sight. <end session 2>
This is as far as we've gotten. I don't have any hard and fast plans for=
the next session, but I want to have a scenario where the heroes are
amongst refugees and one (or more) of them turns out to be one of those
disguise-bots from the MAVRIC adventure...sorta like something out of the=
Terminator movies, 'cept not so invincible. Just something to make them
watch their back. I'm hoping for some "underground resistance" type
scenarios but it depends on what the heroes do. I think Mechanon is
probably rounding up humans to help him increase the size and power of hi=
s
army so that he can conquer more of the world than just Bay City. Oh, th=
e
missing Champions--I'm going to have them be prisoners of some arch-foe o=
f
theirs, and the PC group will have to break them out. Nice way for the P=
Cs
to meet the Champions and not feel like they are inferior or less
important. This will be a separate adventure that will happen after the
invasion is resolved.
Anyway, let me know what you think and if you have any suggestions for th=
e
rest of the story!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:55:53 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
>Hi all,
>
>Question 1: I have a character who has 50% Damage Reduction Resistant vs PD
>and ED. He has a normal PD/ED of 20/20. He got hit with an Energy Blast
>which did 22 STUN and 6 Body. Now normally, I know, I would only take 1 STUN
>and no BODY, but this attack was bought with Penetrating. The dice were
>rolled as follows; 5, 4, 4, 3, 4, 2. What damage would I take ? 6 STUN ? 3
>STUN ? Do I take any BODY ?
Five stun would have normally Penetrated (Penetrating on a normal attack
allows minimum stun through, not Body) so I'd think he'd take 2 Stun (this
is subject to assuming the 'round in your favor' rule applies to the Damage
Reduction.
>
>Question 2: My character is SPD 6 and I got hit with a flash on phase 12
>which flashed me for 4 phases. Now the question is ... I got flashed AFTER I
>went on phase 12, so does that mean I don't recover from being flashed until
>after phase 8 next turn because I already went on 12 ... OR ... am I flashed
>only until after phase 6 next turn ?
The former. The phase that's already passed doesn't count.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:00:25 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Rules Mechanics Questions (Desolid & Turn Mode Costs)
>
>Two Questions:
>
>1) Desolid: Can not move through solid is a -1/2 flaw.
>
> Does this mean:
> a) You can not move through anything you normally
>couldn't move through (ex: a gate with bars, the underside crack of a
>door).
> b) You can not move through anything air tight seal
>or without an opening (ex: an air tight boiler Dr. Diablo locked Water Boy
>in, a thermos, a hollow bubble of Unobtanium)
The latter for the most part...though in most of the cases watertight would
do, i'd think.
>
>2) Turn Mode:
> How much does a Turn Mode cost? Is their a maxium ammount
>of Turn Modes one can buy?
> (This question specifically is for a Speedster I'm writing up with
>Flight: Only Along Surfaces, who also has clinging, who can run up walls
>and stop on a dime).
The only obvious way within the rules to buy the ability to turn faster is
with Movement levels.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:03:31 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Whip Multipower
>>> >1: 22" Swinging. I think this is a bit much for whip, even a long
>
>What is up with swinging! Shouldn't swinging and gliding be skills, rather
>than powers? Why give them speeds (damn you my glider goes 50 miles per
>hour and yours goes 56! I'll never catch you!)? Isnt any power that
>logically requires a focus a skill? I dunno just seems like to me, why
>isn't climbing a power (I have 45" of climbing, just start going UP and
>I'll catch you).
First of all, neither of them logically requires a focus; someone could have
either as a power (I've had a character who swung by eminating little
telekinetic lines.) And there _are_ differences between the speeds of
gliders; it has to do with amount of drag and loft. In the case of
swinging, the issue is the length of the line. And there _is_ a powered
version of climbing; it's called Clinging.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:25:39 -0500
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
At 12:55 PM 3/29/99 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Question 1: I have a character who has 50% Damage Reduction Resistant vs PD
>>and ED. He has a normal PD/ED of 20/20. He got hit with an Energy Blast
>>which did 22 STUN and 6 Body. Now normally, I know, I would only take 1 STUN
>>and no BODY, but this attack was bought with Penetrating. The dice were
>>rolled as follows; 5, 4, 4, 3, 4, 2. What damage would I take ? 6 STUN ? 3
>>STUN ? Do I take any BODY ?
>
>Five stun would have normally Penetrated (Penetrating on a normal attack
>allows minimum stun through, not Body) so I'd think he'd take 2 Stun (this
>is subject to assuming the 'round in your favor' rule applies to the Damage
>Reduction.
>
I disagree. Penetrating damage takes effect regardless of the defenses,
including the defense of Damage Reduction. The rolls 5, 4, 4, 3, 4, 2 have
6 "BODY" (that is, 6 numbers 2-5), so 6 STUN penetrates. The character
takes 6 STUN. No BODY gets through, for the reason Wayne mentioned. If the
attack had been a 6d6 KA, 6 BODY would have penetrated.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:57:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
I was messing around with some ideas and started tinkering with converting
a few amusing creatures from the old Monster Manual into Hero terms.
First up is the Beholder. This is a rough draft and feed back is gretly
appreciated.
BEHOLDER
Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
15 STR 0 12- 200kg; 3d6
19 DEX 27 13- OCV: 6 / DCV: 6
15 CON 10 12-
14 BODY 8 12-
15 INT 5 12- PER Roll 12-
18 EGO 16 13- ECV: 6
15 PRE 5 12- PRE Attack: 3d6
0 COM -5 9-
6 PD 4 Total: 14 PD / 8 PDr
6 ED 3 Total: 14 ED / 8 EDr
3 SPD 1 Phases: 6, 12
6 REC 2
66 END 18
30 STUN 3
Total Characteristics Cost: 97
Movement: Flight: 3" / 6"
Cost Powers & Skills
Combat Training:
10 Combat Skill Levels: +2 with Eye Blasts Multipower
4 Combat Skill Levels: +2 OCV with Bite
Beholder Powers:
7 Great Size: Growth: 1 Level, 0 END (+1/2), Persistant (+1/2),
Always On (-1/2)
+5 STR, +1 BODY, +1 STUN, -1" KB, 4-6' across, 400 lbs
96 Eye Blasts Multipower: 120 Point Pool, Multipower has a Limited
Arc of Fire, each slot can only affect targets in a 180 degree
arc, arc varies per slot (-1/4)
5 u - Anti-Magic Stare: Dispel: 16d6 vs Magic, Any single power with
a magic Special Effect (+1/4), END 6
5 u - Charm: Mind Control: 12d6, Only vs Humanoids, END 6
5 u - Charm: Mind Control: 12d6, Only vs Animals, END 6
4 u - Cause Serious Wounds: Drain: 2d6 vs BODY, Ranged (+1/2),
Recovers per Day (+1 1/4), END 5
5 u - Death Stare: RKA: 1d6+1, NND: Defense is not being 'alive',
Having Full Life Support, Power Defesne, or being defended by a
magical 'force field' (+1), Does Body (+1), END 6
5 u - Disintigrate: RKA: 1d6, AVLD: Power Defense (+1 1/2), Does
Body (+1), END 6
5 u - Fear: Mind Control: 9d6, Telepathic (+1/4), Single Command:
Run Away (-1/2), END 6
5 u - Flesh to Stone:Transformation Attack: 2 1/2d6 Major (Flesh to
Stone), Cumulative (+1/2), END 6
5 u - Levitation: TK: 40 STR, END 6
5 u - Sleep: Ego Attack: 3d6, AoE: Radius (+1), END 6
5 u - Slow: Drain: 4d6 vs SPD, Ranged, END 6
15 Bite: HKA: 1d6 (2d6 with STR), END 3
24 Chitinous Shell: Armor: 8 DEF
6 Flight: 3", END 1
- -12 Running: -6" (0" Total)
- -2 Swimming: -2" (0" Total)
10 Multiple Eyes: 360 degree Sensing for Sight Group
5 Heat Vision: IR Vision
5 Night Vision: UV Vision
Background Skills:
3 AK: Local Area 12-
0 Beholder (native)
3 "Common Speech" (fluent)
3 Persuasion 12-
3 Stealth 13-
3 Tactics 12-
3 Tracking 12-
240 Total Powers & Skills Cost
337 Total Character Cost
100+ Disadvantages
Distinctive Features: Beholder
Physical Limitation: No manipulatory limbs
Psychological Limitation:
Agressive and hateful
Greedy
Reputation: Eye Tryant, Ext 8-
Experience
Total Disadvantage Points
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"You! Get me a drink! Make it large, strong, and to go,
and put it on Godot's tab!"
Der Rock the Destroyer, from _Buck Godot: PSmIth_
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:38:21 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
>At 12:55 PM 3/29/99 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>Question 1: I have a character who has 50% Damage Reduction Resistant vs PD
>>>and ED. He has a normal PD/ED of 20/20. He got hit with an Energy Blast
>>>which did 22 STUN and 6 Body. Now normally, I know, I would only take 1 STUN
>>>and no BODY, but this attack was bought with Penetrating. The dice were
>>>rolled as follows; 5, 4, 4, 3, 4, 2. What damage would I take ? 6 STUN ? 3
>>>STUN ? Do I take any BODY ?
>>
>>Five stun would have normally Penetrated (Penetrating on a normal attack
>>allows minimum stun through, not Body) so I'd think he'd take 2 Stun (this
>>is subject to assuming the 'round in your favor' rule applies to the Damage
>>Reduction.
>>
>
>I disagree. Penetrating damage takes effect regardless of the defenses,
>including the defense of Damage Reduction. The rolls 5, 4, 4, 3, 4, 2 have
>6 "BODY" (that is, 6 numbers 2-5), so 6 STUN penetrates. The character
>takes 6 STUN. No BODY gets through, for the reason Wayne mentioned. If the
>attack had been a 6d6 KA, 6 BODY would have penetrated.
Damage Reduction, though it acts like one, is not a defense. Armor Piercing
has no direct effect on it, and neither does Penetrating. Arguably, it even
effects NNDs, though the fact NNDs are not usually classified in terms of
physical or energy can make the problematic.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:40:36 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
At 09:17 AM 3/29/1999 -0800, David W. Salmon wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Question 1: I have a character who has 50% Damage Reduction Resistant vs PD
>and ED. He has a normal PD/ED of 20/20. He got hit with an Energy Blast
>which did 22 STUN and 6 Body. Now normally, I know, I would only take 1 STUN
>and no BODY, but this attack was bought with Penetrating. The dice were
>rolled as follows; 5, 4, 4, 3, 4, 2. What damage would I take ? 6 STUN ? 3
>STUN ? Do I take any BODY ?
The character would take 3 STUN (IMHO) and no BODY.
>Question 2: My character is SPD 6 and I got hit with a flash on phase 12
>which flashed me for 4 phases. Now the question is ... I got flashed AFTER I
>went on phase 12, so does that mean I don't recover from being flashed until
>after phase 8 next turn because I already went on 12 ... OR ... am I flashed
>only until after phase 6 next turn ?
The character is Flashed for 2, 4, 6, and 8, and is recovered from being
Flashed on 10.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:02:48 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Entangle Question (oh, Mr. Long?)
At 11:42 AM 3/29/1999 -0500, Mathieu Roy wrote:
>Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to figure out the mechanics for something a little different
>> with an Entangle.
>> Basically, I want to be able to Entangle two targets together. They're
>> not attacked at the same time; the character with the Entangle would have
>> to attack Target A on one Phase, and Target B on the next. But if both
>> attacks are successful, then Target A and Target B are tied together until
>> the Entangle is broken.
>
>What if you used a Sticky Entangle? Your second attack could be some form
of TK
>designed to get the second target into the Entangle (after all, you do
need to
>get them close by). These two powers look like they would fit well in a
>Multipower.
I thought about using Sticky, with a few Limitations on that Advantage
(like 1 Charge, Requires Attack Roll, etc.). The only real problem I'm
having with that is that I'm trying to work up the costs using Creation
Workshop, and I don't have a handle on how to make Limited Advantages work
in that program (my plea for help in that department on the Creation
Workshop Mailing List was met with the sound of crickets chirping).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:00:48 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Entangle Question (oh, Mr. Long?)
At 11:30 AM 3/29/1999 -0500, Mike Christodoulou wrote:
>At 08:00 AM 3/29/99 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> I'm trying to figure out the mechanics for something a little different
>>with an Entangle.
>> Basically, I want to be able to Entangle two targets together. They're
>>not attacked at the same time; the character with the Entangle would have
>>to attack Target A on one Phase, and Target B on the next. But if both
>>attacks are successful, then Target A and Target B are tied together until
>>the Entangle is broken.
>
>
>Some notes:
>
>1. Entangle rules already allow for an entangle to affix the target to
> a nearby object, such as a wall. No reason the nearby object can't
> be another entangled target.
This was my first thought, but the Special Effects and desired
separability of functionality (which I posted a little earlier this
afternoon -- the former being "chain gang" style handcuffs and leg-cuffs,
and the latter term meaning I want separate write-ups for 2, 4, 8, and 16
targets) don't quite fit that way of working it.
>2. I can think of advantages to having two targets tied together, mainly
> the fact that you can carry them around together. But then, with
> sufficient strength, you could do that anyway.
They also can't run away separately, or be taken away separately. If
one goes somewhere, they *all* go somewhere, until they're separated.
>3. I can also think of disadvantages in the converse -- you MUST move
> them around together. On the other hand, is that really all that much
> of a disadvantage?
At most, it's a minor inconvenience. At any rate, it's good enough for
prisons and police when they want to transport prisoners, eh? :-]
>Given that, entangling two targets together is a no-brainer. It's just
>two separate entangles with the special effect being that they're tied
>together.
>
>However, the tricky part comes in your last sentence ... that they must
>simulaneously break out of the combined entangle. I'm not sure that this
>makes sense, either from a rules standpoint, or a special effect
>standpoint. It's much easier if they're allowed to break out separately.
>If you MUST do it that way, then you could treat it as a "reinforced
>entangle" ... that is, the first target is stuck inside an entangle inside
>an entangle. (The second guy is only affected by one entangle, but for
>the sake of this discussion, I'm giving him the disadvantage of having to
>break through both.) The two targets combine their strength against the
>combined strength of the entangle.
Actually, I didn't explain that very clearly (as evidenced by the fact
that at least one other person had the same misunderstanding). What I
meant was that, once the Entangle between the two is broken, they two are
no longer tied together.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:38:23 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Rules Mechanics Questions (Desolid & Turn Mode Costs)
At 04:44 PM 3/29/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: Re: Rules Mechanics Questions (Desolid & Turn Mode Costs)
>
>On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
>> 2) Turn Mode:
>> How much does a Turn Mode cost? Is their a maxium ammount
>> of Turn Modes one can buy?
>
>Youcan buy skill levels with your flight for... 3 points each, I think.
>These will help to counteract your turn mode You could buy as many as you
>want and thus reduce your turn mode to 0.
I think that, officially speaking, 3 points is the "officially correct"
way to do it; however, I postulate that, if it costs 2 points for +1 OCV
with a single weapon or maneuver, it should also cost 2 points for -1 Turn
Mode with a single Movement Power (assuming that's all you want to do with
it).
>Is there an advantage that does this already?
In my manuscript for TUV, I proposed a +1/4 "No Turn Mode" Advantage for
Flight and other Movement Powers that use Turn Mode. Someone sat down and
figured out that the cost of this would cost about exactly what it would
cost to just buy enough Skill Levels to do the trick, at a rate of 2.5
points per Level (so you're pretty close to the score whether you'd charge
2 or 3 points to get it with Turn Mode Skill Levels).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:32:32 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Whip Multipower
At 03:34 PM 3/29/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: Re: Whip Multipower
>
>On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> >I have only two comments:
>> >
>> >1: 22" Swinging. I think this is a bit much for whip, even a long
>> >cinematic bullwhip. This allows the character to cross 145 feet in a
>> >single swing! Wouldn't 4-6" make more sense (since the whip has 4" of
>> Stretching)?
>>
>> This is not quite correct. 22" of Swinging doesn't mean 145' in a
>> single swing; it means 145' in a single *Phase.* After all, 22" of Running
>> doesn't allow the character to cover 145' in a single step. :-]
>
>That may be, but I still find it a bit much.
On this, you'll have little argument, at least from this corner.
>> >2: +11 to Climbing rolls; OAF: Whip (-1), I am very positive that
>> >focused Skill Levels cost more. I think it is at least 3 points per
>> >die, meaning that you only get a +7 with your climbing roll.
>>
>> Again, Jason's correct here (IMO). There's a cost restriction in the
>> HSR on *Combat* Skill Levels in a Focus, but not the regular kind.
>
>Then there should be. I mean, if here isn't I could but a lot of skills
>up to 18- by using OAF: Toolkit or the like.
Yes, you could. But think about it a minute: using a whip as a tool,
one legitimately *could* perform acts of climbing that would seem
incredible (or even Extraordinary -- HSR, page 19) without it. Rapelling
up a sheer wall (a la TV's Batman) is one thing that comes right to mind.
Likewise, a few +1's to Paramedic, with Limitations for specific types
of ailments along with OAF, is arguably the best way to write up the
majority of emergency medical equipment, and a lot of it allows for things
that would be virtually impossible using one's bare hands and/or improvised
stuff.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:34:27 -0500
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@Concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Entangle Question (oh, Mr. Long?)
At 02:00 PM 3/29/99 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> Actually, I didn't explain that very clearly (as evidenced by the fact
>that at least one other person had the same misunderstanding). What I
>meant was that, once the Entangle between the two is broken, they two are
>no longer tied together.
Well, I'm always a firm believer in keeping it simple. Even if the
Rules Lords can find some technical faults with it, at least you've
got something to work with. Try this: Just define it as a series
of separate Entangles, bought through the focus. The special effect
is that everybody in this entangle is stuck together. Then, the
targets can try to break free of their individual cuffs (i.e. break
the entangle), or try to separate their section of the chain from
the other parts of the chain (i.e. target the focus, which is breakable).
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:39:27 -0500
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
At 04:57 PM 3/29/99 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>I was messing around with some ideas and started tinkering with converting
>a few amusing creatures from the old Monster Manual into Hero terms.
>First up is the Beholder. This is a rough draft and feed back is gretly
>appreciated.
>
>BEHOLDER
>
>Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
>15 STR 0 12- 200kg; 3d6
What does this strength represent, since it has neither manipulatory
limbs nor even legs? The STR of it's bite? I'd be inclined to give it
a lesser STR (maybe 10?) and increase the raw damage of the
bite. That's a -big- mouth.
>24 Chitinous Shell: Armor: 8 DEF
One of the classic things about the Beholder is that it was among
the first D&D monsters with multiple armor classes. You could
represent this with a limitation that the eyestalks and central eye
have a lesser DEF. Eyestalks: 6 DEF, Central Eye: 4. Called
Shots, anybody?
See, the thing about that central eye is that eveyone wants to target it,
but by definition, if you can see it, it can see you, and neutralize
any magic you might be trying to use against it...
Also, how about some enhanced perception modifiers for sight?
Other than that, it looks good!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:44:10 -0600
From: Bill Svitavsky <bsvitavsky@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Beholder (rough draft)
At 05:39 PM 3/29/99 -0500, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
>At 04:57 PM 3/29/99 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
>>24 Chitinous Shell: Armor: 8 DEF
>
>One of the classic things about the Beholder is that it was among
>the first D&D monsters with multiple armor classes. You could
>represent this with a limitation that the eyestalks and central eye
>have a lesser DEF. Eyestalks: 6 DEF, Central Eye: 4. Called
>Shots, anybody?
>
I agree, the multiple AC's/DEF are important. However, as I recall D&D
Beholders also have a lot of Hit Dice. In this conversion, their base DCV
is 6. Sure, a -8 location modifer for the central eye would bump that up to
14, but that's still an achievable hit in most FH games, and a sword can
get a lot of damage past a 4 DEF. It seems a bit weaker than the terrors I
remember from D&D. Perhaps a higher STUN & BODY are in order.
- - Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:07:49 PST
From: "Jack Scarecrow" <themadharlequin@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Absorbtion (Always On) --Is this a crock?
> And Always On is a Power Limitation, not a Disadvantage.
> (And we're getting this mistakes from the lists #1 Rules
Theologian!)
He said "disadvantage" (lower case) not Disadvantage.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:18:40 PST
From: "Jack Scarecrow" <themadharlequin@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Whip Multipower
>From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@Concentric.net>
>To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: Re: Whip Multipower
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:01:26 -0500
>
>At 08:55 AM 3/29/99 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>>What is up with swinging! Shouldn't swinging and gliding be skills,
rather
>>than powers?
>Maybe.
>But they're not.
Appropiate ammounts of Swinging, Requires Skill or OCV or DEX Roll...
Appropiate ammounts of Swinging, Requires Skill or OCV or DEX Roll, Must
reset line after every swing (i.e. no "continous" Swinging. Must detach
and reattach line)
These are both constructs I've used in the past.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:33:19 PST
From: "Jack Scarecrow" <themadharlequin@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: CHAR: Beholder
Forgotten Realms has actual statistics for their creatures, (i.e.
Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma).
I also believe there are rules for converting AD&D characters to HERO.
Thus, perhaps you can use these statistics to better aid your statistics
via conversion and comparison.
If I can, I'll forward you a copy.
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------------------------------
Date: 29 Mar 1999 20:09:42 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Absorption (Always On) <-Is this a crock?
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* "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> on Mon, 29 Mar 1999
| No. You're thinking of Drain or Transfer, Always On, not Absorption.
No, I am thinking of how Always On works as a Limitation.
| Absorption does not normally do any of the things you describe.
Since an electric coffee maker costs 0 active points, neither will Drain or
Transfer.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:14:47 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Swingers
>> What is up with swinging! Shouldn't swinging and gliding be skills, rather
>> than powers?
>
>Er...I really don't see why. You could have a skill with your gliding
>(say) to represent the fact that you were good at it - there's already
>mechanics for 'skill levels with flight'.
Because they make more sense to me as skills than powers?
>> Why give them speeds (damn you my glider goes 50 miles per
>> hour and yours goes 56! I'll never catch you!)?
>
>Because they're Movement Powers, and the way you rate how powerful a
>Movement Power is is by how fast it lets you go. It makes as much sense
>as giving speeds to Running or Flight.
Yes I understand how mechanics work, thank you sir, what I'm referring to
is how absurd that is.
>> Isnt any power that
>> logically requires a focus a skill?
>a) No.
>
>b) Neither Swinging not Gliding logically require a Focus. Real World
>Example: Flying Squirrels have the Gliding power but no Focus. Monkeys
>(as well as Tarzan and other brachiators) could be said to have the
>Swinging power with several limitations, but not Focus.
Define how you swing with no focus in the real world (in game terms, ok you
could create an 'energy tendril') but I am referring to examples in
literature and real world.
>> I dunno just seems like to me, why
>> isn't climbing a power (I have 45" of climbing, just start going UP and
>> I'll catch you).
>
>You can do super-fast climbing in several ways. IIRC, your Climbing Speed
>is based on your ground speed.
>
>1) Clinging + Running (only affects climbing speed -1 1/2)
>
>2) Flight (must be touching a solid surface -?)
>
>Either of these could be bought with Requires Skill Roll (Climbing) if you
>like.
Is it my complete obscurity or did you just miss the point?
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 29 Mar 1999 20:11:28 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: 2 Rules questions for you rules wizards ...
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* Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us> on Mon, 29 Mar 1999
| I disagree. Penetrating damage takes effect regardless of the defenses,
| including the defense of Damage Reduction.
Damage Reduction is not strictly speaking a defense, it is an 'after
defense defense'. Case in point: put Damage Reduction in a Focus. Ponder
that for a few minutes and I think you'll see what I mean.
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------------------------------
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