Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 27

Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 2:42 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #27

champ-l-digest Thursday, November 5 1998 Volume 01 : Number 027



In this issue:

Re: Targeting with Darkness
Re: 1st Edition Fantasy Hero
Re: Boon to Mankind: you WILL drive properly
Something Odd (was:Re: Enchanting Items in FH)
Re: Non-Lethal Weapons
Re: Expanded gestures and incantations
Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)
Re: metal armour
Re: "Lab" skills question
Re: Automatons
Re: Physical vs. Energy Flash (was RE: Non-Lethal Weapons)
Re: Problem with San Angelo: The Port of San Angelo
Re: Good Idea/Bad Idea
Re: Is this as abnormal as I think it is? (Minority Gamers)
Re: Look Out! It's Mr. Fist! (SFX: Multi-SFX Gauntlets)
RE: Building the immortal.
Re: Everyimmortal skills [Bob G1]
Re: Cumulative Power Frameworks
Re: Icorporating Myth without stepping on religion.
Re: metal armour
Re: (Sorta Off-Topic) Miniatures & Maps
Re: Everyimmortal skills [long]
Re: Campaign cities
Re: Look Out! It's Mr. Fist! (SFX: Multi-SFX Gauntlets)
Re: Did you have to do that?!? (A Question rears it's ugly head)
Re: Good Idea/Bad Idea
Re: Bringing Out The Dark Side
Re: Amalga In Champions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:31:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Targeting with Darkness

On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, Mike Christodoulou wrote:

> At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> >Is it 'legal' to target a person (not a hex) with the Darkness power? In
> >other words, can I drop a Darkness field on a person, so that the field
> >will follow him around?
> >
> >Would this require me to buy Darkness "Usable on Others"?
>
> Good question. The book talks about stationary Darkness, and
> Darkness centered on the caster, but not Darkness centered on
> the target. Given that, I'd say that Usable on Others would
> be appropriate.
>
> Alternatively, you could just call it a Flash, although it
> obviously would not affect onlookers the same way.

Right. The power does create a radius of darkness, centered on a certain
target.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 05:59:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: 1st Edition Fantasy Hero

On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:

> At 08:13 PM 8/4/1998 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> >I just picked up a copy of Mythic Greece (a great sourcebook) and have a
> >problem...
> >
> >It uses 1st Ed FH terms. Can anyone tell me waht these are in 4th Ed
> >terms?
> >
> >Thanks, I'd really appreciate it.
>
> 2nd Ed FH has an appendix on System Conversions that shows how to rework
> the Skills and Spells from 1st to 2nd (as well as from GURPS, Rolemaster,
> and AD&D). It starts on page 246.

<Mike opens his 2nd Edition Fh to the right page>

DOH!!!

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:13:42 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Boon to Mankind: you WILL drive properly

Curt Hicks wrote:

> > From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
> >
> > On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> > > At 05:31 PM 8/11/1998 -0500, Curt Hicks wrote:
> > > >
> > > >Really ? Even if it's "vehicle cannot turn unless turn signal is on" ?
> > >
> > > That part is easy. The hard part is knowing the difference between a
> > > freeway and a school zone, how far ahead the car in front is, how far
> > > behind the car is that you're about to move in front of, recognizing "Right
> > > Lane Must Turn Right," not moving forward when the light is red...
> >
> > Not being able to turn without using a turn signal is a Bad Idea (tm) if
> > you ever expect to have to swerve out of the way to avoid having an
> > accident, hitting something in the road (animal, unknown box, pothole),
> > etc.
> >
> Point taken. Makes programming the AI a bit more difficult, huh ?
>
> Curt

You haven't even touched the surface yet. The AI with enough computing power to
safely drive a car at our current computing power would be rougly the size of the
moon.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:28:57 -0800 (PST)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Something Odd (was:Re: Enchanting Items in FH)

All of this discussion about enchanting items got me thinking about
different ways to do it with the Hero System and I was struck by an
odd thought. I don't have a rule book handy, so bear with me on some
of the vagueness.


Build the enchanter with a small (rules minimum actually) Variable
Power Pool (yeah, I know, I usually bad mouth the things, but there
are somethings that only work with them). This pool will provide the
points for EVERY MAGIC ITEM HE MAKES, so assign the appropriate
limitations and advantages to the Control.

Next, give him one spell outside of the VPP built using Power Transfer
CON to VPP with a really slow fade rate (like 1 points per decade or
something), and limited to "just enough points to make the item".

Now, if someone wants an item enchanted, the enchanter uses that
persons "life energy" to power the item instead of his own precious
XPs by transfring enough points from the end-users CON to his own VPP
to build the item.

As the enchanter gets better at what he's doing, dump XPs into the
Power transfer to increase the fade delay (he can now make items that
last longer).



Ok, it may not have been a very good thought, but it was a thought.



==
=======================================
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
Keeper of the Champions / Hero System mailing
list. http://www.sysabend.org/champions
=======================================
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:55:42 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Non-Lethal Weapons

Stainless Steel Rat wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> "RR" == Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
> RR> No I am not. A 15D6 EB with the special effect of electricity is just
> RR> a little less deadly then a 5D6 RKA with the special effect of
> RR> electricity. The difference is that the RKA is a High Amperage attack
> RR> while the EB is a High Voltage attack.
>
> Really.
>
> So, tell me, how many Volts does a 5D6 Ranged Killing Attack have? And how
> many Amperes does a 15D6 Energy Blast have?
>
> And tell me if it really matters when modeling a special effect with game
> mechanics.

>

Depend on the GM and the game:) The statement was made that a Taser is a High
Voltage Low Amperage weapon and that it was a killing attack with lots of bonus
stun multipliers added on. I disagree with this opinion since, in my opinion,
low amperage attacks are not killing attacks. Low amperage attacks simply do not
do the kind or amount of tissue damage other killing attacks do.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Sep 98 12:23:47
From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Expanded gestures and incantations

On Tue, 01 Sep 1998 10:03:37 +1000, m wrote:

>aren't minor effects like head bops just part of visible power effects?
>
>
>qts wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:19:58 -0500, Melinda and Steven Mitchell wrote:
>>
>> >> From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk>
>> >> On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 01:24:55 -0500, Melinda and Steven Mitchell wrote:
>> >> >Question:
>> >> >If a 2 handed weapon gets a -1/2, what does a 2 handed gesture require?
>> >>
>> >> a 2H weapon effectively requires continuous gestures, so -1/2 is
>> >> correct.
>> >
>> >Good answer.
>> >>
>> >>snip
>> >
>> >> As I with VPPs, I think you've not read the descriptions closely
>> >> enough.
>> >
>> >I know how it works in standard Hero. I'm experimenting with a house rule
>> >because I don't think the way it works in standard Hero is fair, giving a
>> >FH game.
>>
>> It did not seem that way in your initial post. Given that the current
>> Limitation of -1/4 is for obvious movements/loud magic phrases, and
>> this seems reasonble (how often is a mage restrained?), you'd have to
>> go to -1/8 for more modest movements/normal speech. I do like your idea
>> about shouting, though.

For me, a head-bop does not qualify as Gestures.
qts

Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:24:25 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)

> lack thereof. Sorry to burst your politically correct bubble, but it is a
> FUNDAMENTAL PRECEPT of a genuinly equal sytem that should the two groups
> roles be reversed, they will be given the same considerations, based upon a
> realistic appraisal of the roles involved.

But we don't live in a genuinly equal system.

> Now if you'll excuse me, i'm off to write an all-white version of othello,
> to make up for whitney houstons all-black version of cinderella. Both are
> completly
> valid and justified.

What movie is this? I have a new disney Cinderella movie with Witney
Houstin as the fairy godmother, and Brandy as Cinderella. But the prince
is phillipino, his advisor is white. The stepmother is white. The queen
is black, the king is white.
Doesn't sound all black to me. Sounds multiracial. Genetically
unrealistic in the case of the prince; but it otherwise espouses your
"genuinly equal system" as far as race goes. However it seems that when
presented with a "genuinly equal system" that doesn't make whites more
equal than everyone else; this disturbs you.

BTW, music and acting wise; it's the best version of the story I've
ever seen.

- --
Rook WebRPG TownHall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ Nothing vast enters the life of mortals without a curse.
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 07:09:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: metal armour

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, qts wrote:

> > The net effect is that metal armor should probably provide full
> >defense against
> >electrical attacks (dealing with the ability of a shock to hit multiple hit
> >locations is probably not worth the effort); _however_, the real disadvantage
> >of metal armor against lightning is that metal armor will make electrical
> >attacks somewhat more likely to _hit_ you (figure -1 to -3 DCV).
>
> An interesting take. However, it still doesn't take into account
> metal's near-transparency to electricity. Yes, I might give them 1 DEF
> for the clothes underneath, but that helmet is in full contact with
> your skin...

Actually it's not. The helmet has a lining of some sort, may sit on a
mail coif and there is usually a cloth cap underneath as well.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:39:05 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: "Lab" skills question

On Thu, Sep 24, 1998 at 10:33:20AM -0700, Rook wrote:




>
> These labs all sound like would give skill levels, but not actual
> skill. For an example of actual skill think of the 'sex machine' that
> woody alen gets into in the movie sleepers.

IIRC, that's the function of a 'lab' in Hero -- to improve the skill of those who already have it, not to grant a skill. Thus, if HeroTeam has an HQ with a 'Chemistry Lab', characters like Alchemist, Element Master, and Dr. Transmuter will find it useful, while characters with no Science:Chemistry, PS:Chemist, or KS:Mysteries Of Alchemy will find it just a place with lot of foul-smelling glassware.

The idea of a 'lab' to increase non-science skil is interesting, and opens up a ot of interesting possibilities. However, remember that the main function of a lab is to increase skill while using the lab, not to grant a bonus to skill afterwards. IOW, Dr. Transmuter can gain a +3 to Chemistry if he performs experiments in the lab -- but the fact the lab exists won't give him a bonus to Chemistry when he's out fighting Mendeltron, The Elemental Robot. Likewise, a 'seduction' lab might give a bonus if you can get the object of your affection into the lab, but it shouldn't give a bonus for general use.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:52:46 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Automatons

Mark Lemming wrote:

> Ross Rannells wrote:
> >
> > Once a week is being pretty nice. My Pentuim pro 300 with 128 meg ram and 6
> > gig hard disk running NT 4.0 locked up on me 6 times today. The 486/66 with 16
> > meg of Ram and 3 gigs of disk hasn't locked up for over a year (at least its
> > been that long since I got a service call on that machine).
>
> I'm running Linux, Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, and NCR at a NT oriented company. In
> terms of the junk that I force these machines to do, the Unix boxes may balk,
> but the NT boxes generally have more fatal errors.
> In terms of what OS I prefer to use they rank:
> Linux, Solaris, HP-UX, Windows, AIX, NCR.
>
> -Mark Lemming

I'd probably switch AIX and Windows NT. But then my AIX exposure has been fairly
limited and I've heard some real horror stories about it so I'll take your word for
it. As far as Linux is concerned, wouldn't you say it's head and shoulders above
everything else out there.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:32:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Physical vs. Energy Flash (was RE: Non-Lethal Weapons)

On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:

> You may note here that your examples (all of them good ones) follow a
> pattern of physical attacks going vs PFD, and sensory overloads going vs
> EFD. But what of a chemical attack like pepper spray? That's more like
> something going vs Power Defense than any form of Flash Defense you've
> mentioned.

Well...physical Power Defense would involve having something over the eyes
- - goggles, nictating membranes, cybernetic eyes, etc. which would protect
the eyes from the direct effects of the pepper spray (since it's a
physical thing) - the spray never gets into the eyes.

If you're looking for a tear-gas like effect (causing the eyes to tear up
and such when you breathe it) then I s'pose you could model it as an NND
(at a discount, IMHO, since Flashes are already basically AVLD). It still
wouldn't work against cybernetic eyes, but I wouldn't necessarily give
cybereyes Power Defense.

For that matter, I would probably model a gas mask as some form of LS and
Physical Flash Defense: Sight...so it wouldn't officially work against
your pepper spray, even though realistically it ought to.

J

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Problem with San Angelo: The Port of San Angelo

> Yeah. If you want to get technical and play around with latitude San
> Francisco is Central California. Coastal-wise anything north of San Luis is
> considered Northern California. Who ever you quoted just said he's changing
> the course of the San Joquin River. (I spelled that wrong.) Big deal. GRG is
> letting you place this city to your own liking. We are just about a fictional
> city in a fictional world. Lighten up and enjoy playing the game instead of
> being so anal.
>
I don't think it's anal to try and logically figure out how the city
relates to the rest of the state. As I'd said, I was unaware earlier that the
west coast had any navigatable rivers. I know the SF Bay Area is fed by a
river that has some access; but I'd always assumed this was a very short
pathway and not a hundred miles or so.

That corrected, I know that the idea of a river allowing shipping to
an inland city is not impossible in California.

The other individual suggessted the central valley, I responded that
my undestanding was that it was somewhere in northern california. Nothing
anal in that.
Such a flame was highly uncalled for.

Essentially all I was looking for were ideas on how best to approach
the issue of 'where are we and how long does it take me to drive to X'.
Something I know a player's bound to ask.
I happen to like San Angelo and plan to use it someday. When I do I
want that to be as seamless as possible.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:58:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Good Idea/Bad Idea

Hmm... and I was going to ask what is the *worst* origin someone has tried
to use for their character.

For starters, I'll offer the one told to me last night:

The character was the <fill in the blank> Hammerhand, who had wheels where
his arms should be and hammers instead of legs. He was suppsoed to roll
around trouncing villians. The GM than asked:

GM: How did he get like this?

Player: Uh... he was born that way.

GM: Really? Where are his parents? Where does he live?

P: Uhmmm... he lives in a small shack deep in the woods... and he was
raised by lawn tools.

GM: ...

Do you have anymore?

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 16:27:40 -0700
From: Tanom <tanom@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Is this as abnormal as I think it is? (Minority Gamers)

I had never paid attention till this post came up.

qts wrote:

> On Thu, 01 Oct 1998 17:36:36 -0700, Tanom wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Guy Hoyle wrote:
> >
> >> On 9/30/98, at 9:33 PM, Rick Edwards wrote:
> >>
> >> >I'll have to agree with Bob. I'm black, and I've only very rarely met
> >> >any minorities in my gaming circles so far. (This excepts when I ran
> >> >with my cousins or my current PBeM).
> >>
> >> Now that I've had a chance to think about it, I think that I have only
> >> gamed with one person of Hispanic background, and no other minorities (if
> >> you consider all the European Cacasians as one ethnic background).
> >> Religiously, I think I've gamed with various brands of Protestants, several
> >> Catholics, a few Pagans, some Mormons, some Agnostics, and at least one
> >> Atheist. (I myself came from a lacksadaisical Presbyterian/Church of Christ
> >> background with some Baptist exposure, currently an Agnostic).
> >
> >Sorry to set things in the wrong direction but I game with 2 hispanics every
> >week and have gamed with at least 4 other hispanics and 2 blacks. I guess that
> >is out of the norm?
>
> I've never paid any attention to the ethnicity of my fellow gamers.
>
> qts
>
> Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:02:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Look Out! It's Mr. Fist! (SFX: Multi-SFX Gauntlets)

On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Douglas Uptegraft wrote:

> Are you sure that you want an EB? Wouldn't such an attack be just an HTH
> Attack with a VSFX?
HKA would be appropiate for some energy types, but not for
bludgeoning damage.

As for how he uses the power, he has to conciously choose what SFX
he is going to use, so he'd have to deduce SnoCone's weakness (or find out
through experimentation).

I think you DO need to buy two EB's, HKA's, HA's, etc. to get the
desired results. After all, mechanically, they are applied against
different defenses (PD or ED) so it would be a bit rules abusive to allow
either/or.
I think a multipower would work best for this construct, as I can
include HA, HKA, and EB, as well as Variable Advantage to the entire
kit-n'-kaboddle to acheive a greater number of effects.

Also, as for switching between physical and enegry EB, I though
there was some form of Advantage that delt with this in a previous
edition.

Also, I wanted to have both the normal damage from the punch as
well as the flame (or whatever enegry type) work against the person in
question.

Perhaps Mr. Long could help me with my EB dilemma...
...or someone else tride and true can chime in with a comment...

The gauntlets await! "Mr. Fist will crush you! Grrrr!"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 19:35:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: RE: Building the immortal.

On Sat, 8 Aug 1998, Filksinger wrote:

> BTW, Fuzion's "Athletic" skill is almost perfect for this.
> If I translate the character to Fuzion, I will probably give
> him a 10 in this. Call it "The Jim Thorpe Skill" would
> probably not make much sense to most players, but I would
> have appreciated it.:)

Jim Thorpe - American Indian athelete who won the 1932 pentathalon in
Sweden and when told 'you're the world's greatest athlete' by the King of
Sweden said 'thanks King'.

Had his medal taken away because it was discovered he'd played semi-pro...
baseball (or was it football?), later the medal was returned.

Did I get it right?

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:26:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Everyimmortal skills [Bob G1]

On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin wrote:

> > If your list, other than the addition of KS: Personal History, is
> >essentially identical to the one for Modern characters, then what's the
> >disagreement? If there are no extras, then there's nothing to object to.
>
> While my list isn't any longer, it's...um, deeper?...in that I had a
> rationale for *multiple* AKs, languages, PSs and TFs. You don't really get
> anything that isn't already part of the standard ES list, you just get more
> of it.

So, essentially, you want extra AKs, languages, PSes and TFs for free
because of your character concept. Am I right?

If you're going to do this in your own campaign, you have to answer the
question, "Would I be willing to do this for any player who had a concept
that would give him any of these?" For example, would you give a Swiss
character three native languages as part of her Everyman skill list?

If so, then there's nothing inherently grossly unfair with what you're
doing

* * * BUT * * *

you should be prepared to deal with plenty of character concepts that
require expansions to the ES list, since you've just made that type of
character more attractive.

J

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:28:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Cumulative Power Frameworks

On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:

>>>I also seem to remember that more than one framework per character is
>>>at least discouraged.

> And while there's nothing that I can find in the BBB that addresses this
> issue, I do agree that this should be generally discouraged -- but by no
> means forbidden (Seeker's case being a case in point, where the two
> represent widely divergent things).

I'm uncertain as to why it should be forbidden or discouraged. Granted
multiple VPPS or ECs are a bit much, but Multipowers can simulate *so*
manythings that it is hard to make a blanket ruling against them.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:30:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Icorporating Myth without stepping on religion.

Rook writes:
> Here's a tough one.
>
> In a modern day super world;
>
> How can you incorporate mythology and mythical creatures without
> stepping on religious toes and without belittling the mythical creature.
>
> For instance. Let's say you want to toss in a greek 'Muse' or a
> christian 'Angel' or do a 'shamanic experience' or whatever. Yet at the
> same time you don't want to 'take favorites' and make a declaration over
> which, if any, mythos is accurate to the world.

As a rule, you can't, because religions tend to define themselves as the 'one
true faith' and superior to all other faiths. As it's only possible to have
_one_ faith be superior to all other faiths, any scheme will either (a) favor
one religion (and declare all other religions as inferior) or (b) declare
several of them equal (thus evenhandedly insulting _all_ of them).

As a rule, your best bet is to never do anything to suggest that _any_ of the
religions are correct, and leave open the possibility that whatever entity
you're talking about isn't really 'real' (it may _think_ of itself as real, but
it is reasonably possible that it's wrong).

> (I'm sending this to a few relavent lists, but using Bcc, show hopefully
> it should sperate out and not cause some nasty cross-thread. Hopefully.

Actually, on hero list at least what its doing is eating any reply headers so
we can't reply to list at all, except by adding champ-l to the cc list ;)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:15:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: metal armour

Brian Wawrow writes:
> >
> I was discussing this with one of my players that I work with and we
> decided that in the case of plate, the armour will conduct much more
> efficiently than flesh. However, in the case of chain, oxidization on
> the rings will reduce the conductivity of the armour, thus increasing
> the amount of energy that is conducted through other materials, like
> say, your spine.
Chainmail in good repair doesn't have much surface oxidation -- the rust tends
to be removed. In any case, a reasonably large current will blow any oxidation
off.

> Yes, I agree that metal armour will make you a more 'attractive' target
> to arcing electricity although I think that on the whole, metal armour
> will not provide an ED equal to it's PD. Stopping physical attacks is
> what mundane armour is designed to do. Dissipating energy attacks is a
> byproduct. So I'm thinking [arbitrarily] that chain's ED would be 1/3
> it's PD and plate might be 2/3. But, this assumes a complete suit. If
> you have a steel helmet and a breast plate where does that leave you. I
> don't think you'd observe Faraday's Cage behavior under those
> circumstances.

While mundane armor isn't designed to stop energy attacks, realistically
speaking most energy attacks have essentially zero penetration, so they don't
need to be very good at it. Most likely platemail is _more_ effective against
lethal electrical attacks than it is against normal weapons.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 14:42:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: (Sorta Off-Topic) Miniatures & Maps

On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:

>
> This tangentially relates to my Final Fantasy HERO game, so I thought I'd
> mention it.
>
> 1) I like to use maps and miniatures, especially for games with a strong
> tactical component like HERO.

Same here.

> 2) I hate painting those little metal buggers though.

Painting? I don't like to buy 'em. Far too expensive.

> 3) There's a new line of - I kid you not - Ninja LEGOs out now.

I have managed to pick up a huge quanity cardboard heroes, which are great
to use for any genre. As an added plus you can tote a small army around
in a tiny box.


***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:21:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Everyimmortal skills [long]

On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Lockie wrote:

> you got a problem with giant jungle ferrets? i just figured
> it was a good tree climbing creature- if it was big enough
> you could even wrap a saddle around it. i originally considered
> a type of sloth creature but 'fast moving giant domestic sloth'
> just sounded silly.

Well... yes. Ferrets don't live in the jungle and (AFAIK) don't climb
trees. OTOH, the large (extinct) ground sloth would make an interesting
riding animal, and came with rather large claws for defence. If you're
thinking of a treee-sloth, forget it, there is not practical way to have a
giant version one could use as a riding animal.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:32:19 -0700
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Campaign cities

<snip>
>Not to be rude, but I'd say "tough nuggies" to those GMs.... Hero Games
>can't be expected to provide writeups for the entire planet. They can't
>afford to please everyone, so I think it's best to keep the focus on one or
>two cities/areas and leave those GMs who don't want those settings to
>create their own, perhaps using the "official" settings for ideas.


Maybe, but, depending on how much those little disks cost to produce, could
it be possible for someone living in a given city, who knows it well, to
write a setting book for it and publish it through Hero Plus? Just
curious...

>Actually, I halfway think that there is too much importance put on the
>campaign city in a superhero game. Look at all that detail in San Angelo
>(sorry, Bob...how about C:NM?)--how much of that would you learn by reading
>a comic book series? Just a small fraction! So why are we demanding so
>much detail? Maybe we aren't really trying to recreate what we read in
>comics....


Well, it depends: a very detailed setting can make it easier to come up with
ideas for adventure, even if you never use a quarter of what is in the book.
The game, hopefully, will still be the comic book, but the setting book
shouldn't necessarily be.

JAJ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:06:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Douglas Uptegraft <s002cdu@discover.wright.edu>
Subject: Re: Look Out! It's Mr. Fist! (SFX: Multi-SFX Gauntlets)

On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Jason Sullivan wrote:

> My questions are as follows:
> The Gauntlets are a 0 Range EB with VSFX. I need to buy _two_ of
> these, one to represent physical EB and one to represent energy EB?
>
> What is the best framework to represent said power set?

Are you sure that you want an EB? Wouldn't such an attack be just an HTH
Attack with a VSFX?

Actually, I was wondering about a similar situation myself which is why
I'm answering with a question. There is a DC character who is one of the
Forever People (if memory serves...) called Mark Megaton (or something)
who sort of punches and uses an EB at the same time. I'm not sure how such
a power combo like that would work. Punches go against PD but what does
one do if the character can use an attack against ED at the same time?

Just some thoughts....

@}-,--'-- * @}-'--,-- @}-,--'- ******* -'--,-{@ * --,--'-{@ * --'--,-{@
| "Every day is a new chapter." ***** C. Douglas Uptegraft |
| *** s002cdu@discover.wright.edu |
| http://www.wright.edu/~s002cdu * OHMagick@hotmail.com |
@}-,--'-- * @}-'--,-- @}-,--'-----------'--,-{@ * --,--'-{@ * --'--,-{@

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:59:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Did you have to do that?!? (A Question rears it's ugly head)

On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, qts wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:05:52 -0500 (EST), Jason Sullivan wrote:
> >On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, qts wrote:
> >> On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:20:34 -0500 (EST), JASON SULLIVAN wrote:
> >> >...I must tempt the fates.
> >> > Followers in a Multipower.
> >> > (Hides from the torch and pitchfork weilding pesants.)
> >> NO Way - if you want a 'follower du jour' (qv generic romantic DNPC)
> >> then use a VPP - we hashed this out a few months ago.
> >What makes a VPP (a power framework) more valid than a Multipower
> >(a power framework)?
> It's very nature - it's a *Variable* Power Pool.

It still doesn't explain the mechanical validity of having the
Follower mechanic in a Multipower (which is a Power Framework) and the
Follower mechanic in a Variable Power Pool (which is also a Power
Framework). I believe, according to the guidelines of all Power
Frameworks, there isn't any difference in what powers are allowed to be in
a Multipower or a VPP. Special Powers and Talents are allowed in a Power
Framework with special permission. In fact, while I think certain Perks
could be appropiate in certain Power Frameworks under certain
circumstances with special gamemaster permission, I do believe any Perk
within a Power Framework is rules mechanics invalid.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 16:16:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Good Idea/Bad Idea

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:

> In the interest of lightening the mood around here (don't we all need
> that every once in a while?), I'd like to introduce this thread of Good
> Idea/Bad Idea couplets for Hero Gamers:
>
Good idea: Modeling your unique mystic artifact as Restrainable as it
always returns to your hand, along with all of your powers being Only In
Hero ID
Bad idea: Modeling your unique mystic artifact as an
Independent Fragile OAF with all of your powers in it while you have a
Public ID, many high DEX Hunters, and a Reputation for having an
Independent Fragile OAF

Good idea: Being a villian hunted by a local Police force (Less Powerful,
limited geographic area, to imprison)
Bad idea: Being a villian hunted by Mechanon, Doctor Destroyer, and The
Harbringer of Justice

Good idea: Characters you love to role-play against, like Howler and
Stalker
Bad idea: Characters you hate to role-play with, like Foxbat and Crusader

Good idea: Reasonable stats and a good balance of power with a well
thought out history
Bad idea: Disproportionate stats and powers like No Concious Control
Multiform into a house plant, raged discriminatory 360 degree taste Always
On, LS: Breathe soup, Instant Change UAO, etc., with a history written on
napkins with crayon

Good idea: sloths villages
Bad idea: ferrets climbing trees

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 19:54:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Bringing Out The Dark Side

On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Lisa Hartjes wrote:

> I want to create an item that would make characters more likely to give in
> to their "dark" sides, such as be more violent, lie, steal, and so on. It
> will be built as an IIF that's Independent, 0 END, and damned hard to get
> rid of (think of a really unlucky penny). The only way to get rid of the
> "cursed" item and its effects would be to destroy the item.

If the item also has good effects, then you could make the 'Dark Side'
effect a Side Effect: something on the order of an EGO Drain, with said
drain limited so that it only affects disadvantage rolls.

However, this only works if they a) have 'dark side' disadvantages and b)
they're atthe level that requires an EGO roll to avoid giving in to them.

You could also have the Side Effects impose a Psych Lim - (some GMs allow
the 'Side Effects' disad to give a psych or phys lim of the appropriate
points, especially if the Side Effects are always incurred - that is,
there's no Activation Rollor Side Effects on the power - it's easier to
deal with than a Transform)

Of course, there's also the Transform route. A small cumulative
Transform: Person to Person with 5 pts more of Psych Lims should do the
trick...the way to undo the transform is of course to destroy the item.

J

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 16:22:06 +1000
From: happyelf <jonesmj@cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Amalga In Champions

wow. . cool idea. . we should throw up our current games' hero team and then amalgamate them!
fneeeee! (that's the sound of a sloth-riding simian calling for parley. . honestly. .)

Bob Greenwade wrote:

> At 12:14 AM 8/19/1998 -0400, Marc wrote:
> >>>>
>
> I have an idea. Forget mixing DC and MARVEL. How about mixing diferent CHAMPIONS characters.
>
> For Example;
> POPGUN (C.L.O.W.N.) and FOX BAT
> Emerald (ENEMIES: VILLAINY UNBOUND adnd DOMINO (Enemies Assemble)
>
> OK so I need to reread some of my sourse books more often
>
> <<<<
>
> Well, I did send out a post mixing the Champions first with DC characters, and then with Marvel characters, but nobody responded with more ideas....
> However, mixing characters within the same universe seems... well, somehow unnecessary. One could try amalgamating characters between the Champions Universe and the Strike Force Universe, however, or the CU and some other superhero workd published for game use (like the one for Heroes Unlimited).
> ---
> Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
> Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm

------------------------------

End of champ-l-digest V1 #27
****************************


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