Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 276
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 11:38 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #276
champ-l-digest Tuesday, April 13 1999 Volume 01 : Number 276
In this issue:
Re: I am very disappointed with Creation Workshop
Re: Power Help: Final Strike
Re: Power Help: Final Strike
Re: Power Construct: Seeing in the Dark (fwd)
Re: Advantage: Increased STUN multiplier
Re: Advantage: Increased STUN multiplier
Re: CHAR: Tarasque
Re: fire extinguisher
Re: I am very disappointed with Creation Workshop
Re: Gamer's Purity Test! (Off topic - sorry!)
Re: Non-Lethal Weapons
Re: Power Construct: Seeing in the Dark (fwd)
Re: Power Construct: SPD; Costs END
Re: Power Construct: SPD; Costs END
Re: Power Construct: SPD; Costs END
Re: Power Construct: SPD; Costs END
Re: Power Construct: SPD; Costs END
Re: Power Help: Final Strike
Re: CHAR: Tarasque
Re: I am very disappointed with Creation Workshop
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:16:23 -0400
From: "Beren" <beren@unforgettable.com>
Subject: Re: I am very disappointed with Creation Workshop
> The program is superior to Heromaker in capabilities and potential of
what
> is can be used to do. it had POTENTIAL multiple game system support. But
does
> not lend itself to allowing individuals to author them outside of the
company,
> because of the lack of intimate knowledge the original programmer has.
>
[Adam says:]
<<Have you read the tutorial on how to create your own game system? It's
very straightforward and rather easy to follow along. Again, you'll have to
tinker around, and you won't really be able to get a 100% working product
overnight, but then again, I don't think Bruce and anyone else he has
working for/with him on this can spend 24/7 on working on new packages for
CW.>>
I'm in no stretch of the imagination a programmer, and I made up my own
template (however small it is :) in very little time. It took me about 2
hours or so to figure most of the stuff out, and the people on the Creation
Workshop mailing list are friendly and helpful.
> of the new update.. One in the Hero template that causes a conflict with
older
> level 2 files, and there is no conversion script to update them. And the
> HeroFuzion has an error that causes it to abort because COM is not
recognized
> in conversion. So I ripped out CW completely and reinstalled it completely
to
> the state I had it before the update.
>
Regarding the conflict.... I haven't had a conflict, but I have had the
messages saying that the file is a level 2 character sheet, and it should be
converted to Level 3. All you have to do is open the character sheet, go to
Files | Convert, and tell it to convert the sheet. Make sure that in the
window that lists the scripts that you have "none" highlighted. I've done
that to several of my characters with no apparent ill effects.
Lisa
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:19:43 EDT
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Power Help: Final Strike
On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:50:23 -0500 (CDT) "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
writes:
>The Problem:
> What value should be given to 'caster dies when all Aided points
>are gone'? I'm pondering using 'one charge never recovers (-4)'
(possibly
>along with 'costs end (-1/2)'), but even that isn't really enough,
because
>then one could happily cast the spell and still go on with their lives.
>Side Effects might be usable (they ought to do several dice of killing
>damage with no defenses), but what limitation do you get for 'Side
Effects
>always occur'?
By "always occur", do you mean that even if the caster fails to channel
his life energy into the other spell he falls over dead? As written,
Side Effects always kick in when the power with that lim is activated.
If you want them to go off even if the main power (the Aid) fails, I'm
not sure -- maybe doubling the value of the Side Effects? Alternately,
buy the Aid and a "self-destruct" type Killing Attack and (triggering
forcefield) link the two powers.
> As a lesser version, how would one do 'caster loses all magical
>power when Aided points are gone'? I guess one could use Side Effects
and
>make a nice Drain with the recovery rate bought way down, or maybe a
>Transform.
I'd probably go with Transform: Mage to normal person, with the reversal
method defined as a mystic ritual to "reconnect" the former mage to the
flows of magic energy, but that's going to depend on how you run magic in
your game.
Leah
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:44:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Power Help: Final Strike
On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Leah L Watts wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:50:23 -0500 (CDT) "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
> writes:
> >The Problem:
> > What value should be given to 'caster dies when all Aided points
> >are gone'? I'm pondering using 'one charge never recovers (-4)'
> (possibly
> >along with 'costs end (-1/2)'), but even that isn't really enough,
> because
> >then one could happily cast the spell and still go on with their lives.
> >Side Effects might be usable (they ought to do several dice of killing
> >damage with no defenses), but what limitation do you get for 'Side
> Effects
> >always occur'?
>
> By "always occur", do you mean that even if the caster fails to channel
> his life energy into the other spell he falls over dead?
Yep, that's it exactly. If you cast 'Final Strike' you're going to die,
one way or another. The Magic Skill Roll is to direct your life force
into the spell...fail that and it just goes flinging off everywhere.
> As written,
> Side Effects always kick in when the power with that lim is activated.
Don't they normally only occur if you fail the Skill Roll? (Did I forget
'Requires Magic Skill Roll' in the writeup?)
> If you want them to go off even if the main power (the Aid) fails, I'm
> not sure -- maybe doubling the value of the Side Effects?
I was pondering something like that...I think I've seen 'double lim value
if Side FX always opccur' but I wasn't sure if it was a house rule or
what.
> Alternately,
> buy the Aid and a "self-destruct" type Killing Attack and (triggering
> forcefield) link the two powers.
Urk...the fact that the caster bites it at the end of the spell is
supposed to be a limitation, and bring the cost down...not increase it.
Heh.
> > As a lesser version, how would one do 'caster loses all magical
> >power when Aided points are gone'? I guess one could use Side Effects
> and
> >make a nice Drain with the recovery rate bought way down, or maybe a
> >Transform.
>
> I'd probably go with Transform: Mage to normal person, with the reversal
> method defined as a mystic ritual to "reconnect" the former mage to the
> flows of magic energy, but that's going to depend on how you run magic in
> your game.
(nods) That's probably what I'd do...and a big enough Transform to make
certain it occurred. "Bob, wasn't that spell you cast supposed to drain
all of your magical powers?" "Yup, I guess I got lucky." (At least if I
went with the drain, the powers would be weakened at best...)
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:40:21 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Power Construct: Seeing in the Dark (fwd)
why not get discriminatory spacial awareness?
You can that, ya know. . . also, i tend to
place spacial awareness in whatever sense groups make the most sense. This
avoids the ridiculous
'invisible to all spacial awareness', that, for 20 points
proofs you against mystic sight, spirit vision, temporal flux
sensors, subspace scans, ect, ect, ect. . .. .
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 4:59 PM
Subject: Power Construct: Seeing in the Dark (fwd)
I need a power that will allow a character to see as well at night
as during the day.
This is not infravision, where one may see things in heat
patterns.
Rather, it is a "mystical" sight, in which there is no darkness.
It does not require any from of ambient radiation. It functions similar
to normal sight, the only drawback (perhaps) being the sight "in the
dark" is ever so slighty dimmed towards monochrome color shifts.
It is not Spatial Awareness, because it can sense fine details.
N-Ray vision and Detect/Sense also can't be used to simulate this power,
nor can a bonus to PER only for the purposes of seeing in the dark.
It is a directional, targeting, ranged, discriminatory sense,
based on the Sight sense group.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:16:07 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Advantage: Increased STUN multiplier
At 11:56 PM 4/12/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> I was wondering if it would be possible to construct the following
>Advantage on a power:
> xd6 Attack, Increased STUN Multiplier, where the STUN Multiplier
>increases +1 for every 2 points the Attack roll was made by.
>
> Would this be Increased STUN multiplier with a Limitation, or
>Increased STUN multiplier with an Advantage (like Trigger), or something I
>haven't thought of yet.
If it was "+1 STUN Multiplier, Only if Attack Roll Made by +2 or More,"
it would be ISM with a Limitation; though arguably you could just buy the
most you expect to ever get (say, +4) with the appropriate Limitation (I'd
call it -1), or buy a number of ISMs each with an appropriate Limitation.
Personally, while the above is probably the technically "correct" way to
do it, for the sake of simplicity I'd just call it a new house-rule +3/4
Advantage.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:17:31 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Advantage: Increased STUN multiplier
At 11:39 PM 4/12/1999 -0500, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
>At 11:56 PM 4/12/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>>
>> I was wondering if it would be possible to construct the following
>>Advantage on a power:
>> xd6 Attack, Increased STUN Multiplier, where the STUN Multiplier
>>increases +1 for every 2 points the Attack roll was made by.
>>
>> Would this be Increased STUN multiplier with a Limitation, or
>>Increased STUN multiplier with an Advantage (like Trigger), or something I
>>haven't thought of yet.
>
>Sounds more like Activation, but wouldn't it be simpler to leave the ISM at
>a fixed level and buy extra d6 of attack power (with Activation or just
>Limited Power "Only when attack roll is exceeded by x")? If this is an EB
>attack, just specify that the extra dice do no BODY.
Since we're talking about Increased STUN Multiplier, it's pretty clear
that we're talking about a Killing Attack, *not* Energy Blast (unless you
actually *like* that construct from European Enemies).
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:42:05 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Tarasque
At 11:29 PM 4/12/1999 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
>5 Tail: Extra Limb: Tail
Is this tail really that handy? (It should at least have a Limitation
for No Fine Manipulation and Limited Prehensibility).
>Appearance:
>The Tarasque (pronounced tar-ask) is a huge water dragon. The appearance
>of the dragon varies depending on the exact story, but all agree that the
>Tarasque is of great size. Combing the various legends, we get a large
>water-dwelling dragon, half-mammal, half-fish. It is covered in thick
>scales, has a lionish head, bear-like paws, a long tail, and many sharp
>teeth. One description gives it great forward-pointing tusks. One
>version of the stay says the Tarasque is a male, while the other describes
>it as a female (and the daughter of Leviathan).
Could there be two Tarasques, one of each? (Or even an entire grouping
of them, enough to define them as a breed or species?) Some of the
variations could represent secondary sexual characteristics, and others
just individual markings.
>Ecology:
>The Tarasque lives in the river Rhone, where it preys on travelers of all
>sorts. The creature will gladly devours humans, horses, cattle and game
>of all sorts. It will ravage the countryside, destroying buildings and
>bridges and eating all those that it can catch. The Tarasque cannot be
>reasoned with, and unlike many other dragons, cannot readily be appeased
>with offers of fair maidens and the like.
Of course not! Why would a dragon who likes to eat virgins go to
France? ;-]
>Motivations:
>Normal animal motivations. Unlike many other dragons, the Tarasque does
>not collect or guard treasure and seems to be driven more by hunger than
>anything else. It guards its territory jealously and will destroy and
>devour any intruders.
On a more serious (albeit related) note than the above, they seem to
have animal-level intelligence, as properly reflected on the character sheet.
>Combat Techniques:
>The Tarasque's usual method of combat lay in wait in a river, thicket or
>lake and then spring upon an unsuspecting victim. It's great jaws and
>sharp teeth are usually more than sufficient to eliminate any foe, but if
>confronted with a large number of targets (or if heavily outnumbered) it
>won't hesitate to use it fiery breathe or its tail to reduce the number of
>opponents quickly. If sorely pressed or wounded, it will retreat back to
>its river.
>
>Other Names: None
Hm... the Combat Techniques remind me somewhat of certain radical
environmentalist groups.... No? ;-]
>Game Master may or may not want to utilize the ability for holy objects
>and characters to utterly pacify the Tarasque. If this is true, the GM
>needs to decide what constitutes a true 'holy' object or character. In
>general, the character should be truly saintly, most player characters
>will *not* fall under this category.
Still, a Susceptibility that manifests as Cumulative Mind Control might
be something to have on the character sheet (Uncommon, 3d6/segment).
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:44:18 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: fire extinguisher
At 06:19 PM 4/13/1999 -0700, Rick Holding wrote:
>geoff heald wrote:
>
>> Well, I'd call it TK. The idea is to push down on the fire. Admittedly,
>> the thing you're pushing down is very like a force wall, but since it isn't
>> stationary, I thought it would be TK.
>> Just like stamping out the fire, but using telekinetic "feet".
>
> I don't know where you got the idea that they were pushing down on the
>fire to put it out. It would make more sense that they use the force
>field to smother the fire by starving it of oxygen. After all, the
>force fields they have are airtight. They use them for windows and
>hatches in the hanger bays. Hell, they even use them as emergency hull
>plates when they have a breach.
>
> Forcewall can be used to simulate all of these so easily.
Force Wall doesn't simulate any of these. Use Dispel or Suppress for
fire suppression, and Life Support for keeping the air in. Those are the
proper game effects. The force field is just the Special Effect.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:01:45 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: I am very disappointed with Creation Workshop
At 11:04 PM 4/12/1999 -0700, Lizard wrote:
>Well, I finally got around to using CW. I am very disappointed. After
>struggling through three characters (which took me an hour), the system
>just crashed. I'm going back to CW.
I assume you mean you're going back to HM (HeroMaker)....
>I find the interface confusing and ugly (too many windows, too many of the
>lists have a random blend of folders and 'naked' items). And, as I noted,
>it crashed for no readily apparent reason.
I hardly have a program on my system that hasn't crashed for no readily
apparent reason at some time or another within the first 6 months of use,
from Word Perfect to Betrayal in Antara.
The windows aren't a problem if you organize them on the desktop in a
way that resembles a character sheet. When you save the sheet, it
remembers the positions of the windows, and brings them back up in the same
spot when you reload it. If you leave them where they are when they come
up, then certainly it's going to get confusing.
Whether something is a folder or 'naked' item isn't random. If it's
just one type of item, it's a 'naked' item; if it's multiple types (like
Enhanced Senses or Life Support) it's a folder. In large part, the system
is organized like the HSR itself, with groupings together where the HSR
groups things.
>Lots of people seem to like this product, though. How is it superior to HM?
>What am I missing?
The main thing I jumped on it for was the far-superior print utility; it
uses the Windows print interface rather than its own. With HM I was
getting the last two lines of every character sheet on a separate sheet of
paper (though I'm not sure that would happen now that I have an HP-722C
instead of a BJ-200e).
Another problem I was having with HeroMaker was that it seems to get
badly screwed up by extremely long lists. For example, when I was putting
together the manuscript for The Ultimate Vehicle, I used HM to do the math
on both the sample characters and the sourcebook of vehicular equipment.
Whenever a file in the latter got to a certain size, the mouse would just
quit working for moving up and down the Powers list, and other odd things
would happen as well.
I'm also pleased with the ability to include a character illustration to
be printed right on the sheet.
So far, in fact, the only major disappointment I'm having with CW:Hero
is the lack of a clear way to do Limited Advantages (a facility for this
exists, but its use isn't nearly as intuitive as the rest of the interface).
I have a lesser disappointment in the current difficulty with
customizing the rules and similar things, but a few people have managed to
learn the procedures and a couple of them have been kind enough to make the
needed files for me (not that they weren't going to use the same files
themselves). The developers are currently busy with all the other Creator
systems that they've contracted to do, but I do hold out hope that an
easy-to-use system for customization will be in the works sooner or later.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:48:07 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Gamer's Purity Test! (Off topic - sorry!)
You can blame Gary Townsend for bringing this to the Fuzion ML, and
Geoff Heald for that last paragraph....
>>I caught this on the MZML, took it, and laughed my butt off.
>>
>>For the record, I scored 60% pure.
>>
>>http://www2.tower.org/purity/gamer.html
>>
>>Check it out! :)
>>
>>-GT
>>
>Gary, you fool, you've allowed the madness to spread! Soon this will get
>to the Hero list and from there god knows where it will go.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:12:33 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Non-Lethal Weapons
At 03:40 PM 4/12/1999 -0700, Filksinger wrote:
>From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
>
>> At 12:25 PM 4/12/1999 -0700, Filksinger wrote:
>> >From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
>> >>
>> >> Well, then I'm back to the AVLD. a 12DC AVLD is 4-1/2d6, which
will do
>> >> 4 BODY on the average; vs a 2 PD normal, this will do 2 BODY, which is
>> >> fairly minimal, while it will do its full 4 BODY against concrete or an
>> >> airplane body, neither of which has any non-resistant PD.
>> >
>> >Let's see if I understand this. AVLD, defense is any PD that is
>> >non-resistant. Resistant PD is not a defense.
>>
>> That's the idea, yes.
>
>Unfortunately, that gives you a weapon that can readily destroy tanks, or
>even Questonite, but doesn't hurt human beings, unless they buy Resistant
>PD, in which case they are toast. Not quite what I had in mind.
No no no.... it's not NND where the defense is "Having No Resistant PD";
it's an AVLD where the defense is "non-resistant PD".
(And I messed up my math above, BTW; in a 60-point/12 DC game, this
would be at most a 3-1/2d6 attack.)
Look at it this way: On the average, a 3-1/2d6 Normal Attack rolls 13.5
STUN, 3.17 BODY. Let's assume a typical roll is 14 STUN, 3 BODY.
A normal human being has 2 PD, which is non-resistant and thus works.
The normal ends up taking 12 STUN and 1 BODY. It's no worse than getting
punched by a really strong bully.
That normal human might be wearing armor worth 12 PD, but that armor is
resistant and so has no effect. It does *not* increase the damage, nor
does it negate the usefulness of his natural PD.
A car has 3 PD, but it's resistant and thus offers no defense. It takes
no STUN, but all 3 BODY. It's damaged.
If a superpowered human buys Damage Resistance, then yes indeedy, that
will negate the usefulness of his natural PD. I'm not uncomfortable with
that, but if you are, you can buy a Limitation on the AVLD Advantage for
"Not vs soft targets."
>How about:
>
>6d6 EB, Stun Only, and 6d6 EB, Linked to first EB, only vs rigid targets
>(-1/2). This gives an attack that only knocks normal human beings out, and
>affects superheroes, but only does BODY damage against rigid objects. Thus,
>buying a tough suit defined as "Resistant PD", that simply makes your normal
>PD resistant, doesn't make you any worse off.
>
>But Crystal Boy is in trouble.:)
If I've made myself clear above, you should see that this is different
from the AVLD method only in how complicated it is to build, and much
damage can be done for 60 points.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:14:03 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Power Construct: Seeing in the Dark (fwd)
At 02:58 AM 4/13/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> I need a power that will allow a character to see as well at night
>as during the day.
> This is not infravision, where one may see things in heat
>patterns.
> Rather, it is a "mystical" sight, in which there is no darkness.
>It does not require any from of ambient radiation. It functions similar
>to normal sight, the only drawback (perhaps) being the sight "in the
>dark" is ever so slighty dimmed towards monochrome color shifts.
>
> It is not Spatial Awareness, because it can sense fine details.
>N-Ray vision and Detect/Sense also can't be used to simulate this power,
>nor can a bonus to PER only for the purposes of seeing in the dark.
> It is a directional, targeting, ranged, discriminatory sense,
>based on the Sight sense group.
Why are Detect/Sense and a Limited form of Enhanced Perception not
acceptable?
Why is Spatial Awareness, Discriminatory not acceptable?
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:20:32 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Power Construct: SPD; Costs END
At 12:31 AM 4/13/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> This came up on this list previously.
>
> Here is the construct:
> X amount of +SPD; Costs END (draws from an END pool)
>
> How would END expenditure work for this power?
> When could you activate it? How long would each "expenditure"
> cost?
>
> Also, when you're using your total enhanced SPD, do you pay END
>for the +SPD or the entire SPD?
In general, I'd handle it with a large, rusty knife and some Cool Whip
applied to the fringes of my beard and moustache. If that doesn't deter
the player....
Seriously, though, one thing that someone mentioned is that SPD changes
can only be made at Post-12 time (except where Multiform is involved), and
the player should be made aware of it.
The END Cost would only be charged for the extra SPD, but would have to
be paid on every Phase during the Turn (meaning the character would be
unable to take a Recovery during that Turn -- though someone may have
knowledge about END Reserves that overrules that). Each expenditure of the
END would last for only that Phase, but because a change in SPD can only
take place at Post-12 time, that expenditure is mandatory for the entire Turn.
To make things simpler, you could just multiply the END Cost of the
extra SPD by the new SPD, and charge the entire block when it's activated.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:23:42 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Power Construct: SPD; Costs END
At 12:24 AM 4/13/1999 -0500, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
>At 09:36 PM 4/12/1999 -0700, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>>
>>> X amount of +SPD; Costs END (draws from an END pool)
>>>
>>> How would END expenditure work for this power?
>>>
>>> Also, when you're using your total enhanced SPD, do you pay END
>>>for the +SPD or the entire SPD?
>>
>>Each SPD point would cost 1 END (since it's a 10 active point power) and
>>would cost that Endurance every phase in rounds it was active. So if you
>>had a normal SPD of 4, with +2 SPD that cost END, it'd cost you 2 extra END
>>every Phase, for a total of 12 in the round.
>
>Huh? I was with you until "...for a total of 12 in the round."
>
>Assuming by "round" you mean Turn (12 segments), he should pay a total of 2
>END per Turn, not 12, to boost his SPD by +2. Where does 12 come from --
>what am I missing?
You're missing that the extra SPD is active through the entire Turn, so
he has to pay for the END on every Phase, whether it's one of the extra
ones or not.
Boosting from 4 SPD to 6 SPD costs 2 END per Phase, and gives him Phases
2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12. So he has to pay 2 END on each of those 6 Phases,
for a total of 12 END through the Turn.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:29:06 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Power Construct: SPD; Costs END
At 02:37 AM 4/13/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>On Mon, 12 Apr 1999, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>> > Example:
>> > Captain Zoom normally has a SPD of 2. Captain Zoom has +6 SPD,
>> >Costs END.
>> > It costs him 6 points of END...
>> > b) Every phase Captain Zoom goes on (total of 8)
>> > for 48 END
>> Case 'b.' Just like any other constant power.
>
> This is a very interesting construct. A power that makes itself
>(and all other constant powers) cost more by it's own use, which is why I
>think it's a bit buggy. Also, the higher the "base SPD", the more the
>powers costs to use. Compare two characters, one with a natural SPD of 2
>and a SPD, Costs END of +3, and another character with a natural SPD of 10
>and a SPD, Costs END of +2. The former costs 15, the latter costs 24, and
>the total SPD of the first is less than the second.
> Perhaps this is counterbalanced by the fact that Constant AoE
>powers would also be effected by the increase of SPD (but would still cost
>more per phase, anyhow).
> Very odd. Very odd, indeed. Makes you wonder if it's even worth
>it...
This is how SPD works. It's how SPD has always worked in the Hero
System, from First Edition onward. And, along with the sheer cost of it, I
think it's a darn good way to keep those "I want to have a 12 SPD"
characters under control.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:26:19 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Power Construct: SPD; Costs END
At 01:12 AM 4/13/1999 -0500, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
>At 10:27 PM 4/12/1999 -0700, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>Uh, no: 1 END per SPD point per phase. So the +9 SPD would cost 9 END
>>_every phase_./
>
>Whatever the perceived "extra benefits", 1 point of SPD only grants 1 extra
>Phase during a Turn; that 1 point of SPD -- at 10 Active Points -- should
>have a net END cost of 1 during that Turn. This is true whether the END
>cost is paid during each "bonus" Phase (@ 1 END per extra Phase) or at the
>beginning of Segment 12.
>
>Pushing this example to the extreme, a SPD 2 character has +10 SPD
>available to him as a Power; this is "only" 100 AP woth of power, no matter
>how long he uses it. You want to charge the character 100 END every Turn
>for this. No other 100 AP Power costs this much to use, no matter what the
>benefits.
Actually, that would be 120 END every Turn, and *every* other 100 AP
Power costs this much to use. If I have a 50 PD, 50 ED Force Field (100
AP, costing 10 END per Phase) and a SPD of 12, I will pay 120 END per Turn
to use it.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:40:24 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Power Construct: SPD; Costs END
At 06:58 AM 4/13/1999 -0500, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
>At 10:58 PM 4/12/1999 -0700, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>>Pushing this example to the extreme, a SPD 2 character has +10 SPD
>>>available to him as a Power; this is "only" 100 AP woth of power, no matter
>>>how long he uses it. You want to charge the character 100 END every Turn
>>>for this. No other 100 AP Power costs this much to use, no matter what the
>>>benefits.
>>
>>Really? Tried running 100 AP force field all turn lately? If you had ten
>>phases, that would cost you 100 END too. Any constant power costs every
>>phase; I don't see why SPD should get to be an exception.
>
>I will concede that a 100 AP force field, used over the space of 10 Phases,
>does and should cost 100 END over the course of the Turn. However, in this
>case you get the full benefit of the 100 AP field on every Phase.
>
>Captain Zoom buys a 60 AP "extra SPD" Power, which gives him the chance to
>take six extra actions. Can he take six extra actions per Phase? No.
>Then why make him pay END as if he could? It only acts as a 60 AP Power
>over the course of a full Turn; on each of the bonus Phases, it's
>effectively a 10 AP Power that lasts for one Phase. This may seem an odd
>way of thinking of it, but it beats billing a character full END cost for
>something every Phase that they only get full benefit from every Turn.
This doesn't scan, Damon. Of course the benefit of SPD stretches over
the full Turn. But he gets the full benefit from it throughout the Turn.
Let's stick with the earlier example of 4 SPD, +2 (Costs END). When the
character is operating at 6 SPD, he spends the END, right? When Segment 2
comes around, he's at 6 SPD. He's operating with something that costs END,
and so should pay the full END cost for it. When Segment 4 comes around,
he's still at 6 SPD, because he's operating with that Power that costs END,
and so should pay the full END cost for it. Even at Segment 6, a Phase
he'd take normally, he's at 6 SPD (and *not* 4 SPD), because he has that
Power going, and he still has to pay END for it. And the same happens on
Segments 8, 10, and 12.
The player may not like it, and you may not like it, but Powers that
cost END and are in effect throughout a Turn must be paid for on every
Phase.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:50:16 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Power Help: Final Strike
At 07:50 AM 4/13/1999 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>The Spell:
> By channelling the caster's life force into magical energy, this
>spell can greatly increase the power of any spell cast immediately after
>it. The catch? You have to channel /all/ of your remaining life energy,
>so as soon as you're done casting that other spell, your body falls
>lifeless to the floor.
>
>The Power:
> xd6 Aid (5x) to any one spell (+1/4) or possibly to all spells
>(+2), gestures (-1/4), incantations (-1/4), requires magic skill roll
>(-1/2)
>
>The Problem:
> What value should be given to 'caster dies when all Aided points
>are gone'? I'm pondering using 'one charge never recovers (-4)' (possibly
>along with 'costs end (-1/2)'), but even that isn't really enough, because
>then one could happily cast the spell and still go on with their lives.
>Side Effects might be usable (they ought to do several dice of killing
>damage with no defenses), but what limitation do you get for 'Side Effects
>always occur'?
Side Effects that always occur even with a chance for the spell's
failure double in value (IMO).
I think I'd skip on that Limitation, though, since the effect takes
place on the phase *after* the spell is used (if not later). One Charge
that Never Recovers, Costs END is a good start; I think I'd just call
"Caster Dies When Aided Spell is Used" a -4 Limitation. That gives you a
good -9-1/2 Limitation to work with.
As a related suggestion, I'd have the number of dice equal the caster's
BODY (or perhaps twice that number).
> As a lesser version, how would one do 'caster loses all magical
>power when Aided points are gone'? I guess one could use Side Effects and
>make a nice Drain with the recovery rate bought way down, or maybe a
>Transform.
For this one, the Side Effects would be the way to go (IMHO). Also,
I've heard rumblings that Disadvantages will soon be available as Side
Effects. :-]
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:08:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Tarasque
On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 11:29 PM 4/12/1999 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> >
> >5 Tail: Extra Limb: Tail
>
> Is this tail really that handy? (It should at least have a Limitation
> for No Fine Manipulation and Limited Prehensibility).
It seems that things with multiple limbs and tails buy this power in the
Hero Bestiary. I was wondering myself, but decided to include it rather
than leave it out. It does allow the creature to strike with it (I
guess).
> >Appearance:
> >The Tarasque (pronounced tar-ask) is a huge water dragon. The appearance
> >of the dragon varies depending on the exact story, but all agree that the
> >Tarasque is of great size. Combing the various legends, we get a large
> >water-dwelling dragon, half-mammal, half-fish. It is covered in thick
> >scales, has a lionish head, bear-like paws, a long tail, and many sharp
> >teeth. One description gives it great forward-pointing tusks. One
> >version of the stay says the Tarasque is a male, while the other describes
> >it as a female (and the daughter of Leviathan).
>
> Could there be two Tarasques, one of each? (Or even an entire grouping
> of them, enough to define them as a breed or species?) Some of the
> variations could represent secondary sexual characteristics, and others
> just individual markings.
The original is a unique creature (just like the Shaggy Beast was), but
this write up allows one to presume it is a seperate species of dragon.
Of course, one has to wonder about reports giving it 6 legs, others 4 and
one says it is larger than "a dozen elephants".
> >Ecology:
> >The Tarasque lives in the river Rhone, where it preys on travelers of all
> >sorts. The creature will gladly devours humans, horses, cattle and game
> >of all sorts. It will ravage the countryside, destroying buildings and
> >bridges and eating all those that it can catch. The Tarasque cannot be
> >reasoned with, and unlike many other dragons, cannot readily be appeased
> >with offers of fair maidens and the like.
>
> Of course not! Why would a dragon who likes to eat virgins go to
> France? ;-]
No comment.
> >Game Master may or may not want to utilize the ability for holy objects
> >and characters to utterly pacify the Tarasque. If this is true, the GM
> >needs to decide what constitutes a true 'holy' object or character. In
> >general, the character should be truly saintly, most player characters
> >will *not* fall under this category.
>
> Still, a Susceptibility that manifests as Cumulative Mind Control might
> be something to have on the character sheet (Uncommon, 3d6/segment).
I was thinking more of a Phys Lim myself (unable to harm the truly holy).
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an
infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even
considering if there is a man on base. - Dave Barry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:36:17 EDT
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: I am very disappointed with Creation Workshop
In a message dated 4/12/99 11:08:01 PM, lizard@mrlizard.com writes:
>Well, I finally got around to using CW. I am very disappointed. After
>struggling through three characters (which took me an hour), the system
>just crashed. I'm going back to CW.=20
I assume you mean you're going back to HeroMaker.
>I find the interface confusing and ugly (too many windows, too many of
>the
>lists have a random blend of folders and 'naked' items). And, as I noted,
>it crashed for no readily apparent reason.=20
The interface for Creation Workshop (or HERO Creator) is indeed different=20
than HeroMaker, and that takes some adjustment for veteran HeroMaker users.=20
It's pretty easy, though, once you understand a couple of basic things. I=20
find that showing people that you call up the window you want from the Data=20
menu (such as, for instance, Powers), then press the INS key to bring up the=20
list of things to add, it goes quite smoothly. (Once you add a Power, click=20
the New button to bring up options such as Advantages, Limitations, and so=20
on.) Keeping an eye on the Tips window helps walk you through these things a=
s=20
they proceed.
The lists are not "random" blends of naked items and folders; the folders=20
represent sublists. So something like Enhanced Senses will be represented by=20
a folder, since there are many different things under one title. (This was=20
also true in HeroMaker, though it was shown differently.)
As for the crash you experienced, without some idea of how to replicate it,=20
we can't help you with that. I can say that we haven't seen any crash bugs=20
reported since two versions ago, though (over a year). That doesn't mean one=20
might be lurking somewhere, but it's pretty well-hidden if it does exist.=20
Unfortunately, there are lots of reasons for computers to crash, including=20
all the different hardware and software you have running, so it's quite=20
possible something else about your system caused the crash. Still, if you ca=
n=20
replicate what caused the crash, we'd really like to know about it.
>Lots of people seem to like this product, though. How is it superior to
>HM?
>What am I missing?
The main advantage cited is the customizability of HERO Creator. You can=20
easily change names, add new skills, and such. With Creation Workshop, you=20
can go even further and completely implement your house rules, changing basi=
c=20
formulae in the game (assuming you have the time and the skills; programming=20
experience is almost a necessity for this level of customization). Also, you=20
can customize your output, altering the printouts or creating new output=20
filters. And with Creation Workshop you can run conversion scripts between=20
game systems. Now that the Call of Cthulhu template is out, and we've=20
announced many more (including Ars Magica, GURPS, Deadlands, and Legend of=20
the Five RIngs), this feature becomes very handy indeed. Several fans have=20
told me they bought the Cthulhu template not because they play CoC, but=20
because they plan on using CoC monsters in their Champions campaign.
=97 Steve Peterson, Hero Games=20
------------------------------
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