Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 326

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 1999 1:56 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #326


champ-l-digest Saturday, May 8 1999 Volume 01 : Number 326



In this issue:

Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
Re: Elementals & Archetypes, naturalistic conceptual structures.
Re: Superman tecnicolor
Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks
Re: Superman tecnicolor
Re: Superman tecnicolor
Re: Superman tecnicolor
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
GURPS Hero
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
GURPS Hero
Re: Superman tecnicolor/Kryptonite spectrum
Re: Female Bricks (was CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks)
Re: Superman tecnicolor
Re: The Five
Re: My problems... as per your request
Re: Yul Brynner (was The Seven Deadly Sins, and before that New age elementals)
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
Re: Superman tecnicolor
Re: Superman weaknesses
Re: My problems... as per your request
Re: My problems... as per your request
Re: RE: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?
Re: My problems... as per your request
Re: Superman weaknesses

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 09:18:00 EDT
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com>
Subject: Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks

>>If the character buys theyre strength up stat as a base stat, they are
huge.
>>If they buy theyre strength as part of theyre power package, they
candictate
>>size.
>
>I always thought that normal looking people whith superstrength had
>bought
>some of their strength with Invisable.

I just go with whatever height and weight fit the character and don't
worry about it. (For instance, I'm running a brick in a Golden Age
Champs game who's 4 feet tall, 135 pounds, and STR 40.)

Leah

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 00:23:44 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Cc: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?


>On Fri, 7 May 1999, Lance Dyas wrote:
>
>> > About the
>> > only thing that does the wild-action style of gaming better is Feng
Shui.
>>
>> I'm not familiar with it?
>
>Feng Shui simulates the wild action of HK cinema. Martial artists, magic,
>gunfighters, wierd science. Think Hard Boiled/The Killer/Once Upon a Time
>in China and you can't go wrong.
>

and the guys who made it also made 'nexus: the infinite city', a
rpg with relativly good multigenre cover and some interesting
ideas about dimensional travel.

>--
>Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
>
> "We are men of action. Lies do not become us."
> Westley, the Man in Black (Cary Elwes), from _The Princess Bride_
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 00:19:26 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Elementals & Archetypes, naturalistic conceptual structures.

We sem to be discussing genre an conceptual ideas as
naturalised states- that is, stuff that can effect the game world.

here's one- if you divide all the genres and
types of character up in order of the following
three pairs of universal themes,
where do superheros end up?

magic vs tech
good vs evil
order vs chaos.

i had a setting where six 'nodes',
each bursting wiht the energy of
one of these concepts, appeared on earth
across the globe. the closer you got
to a given node, the more that node's
form of existance exerted itself, resulting in
a torg-like world of various genres, dependant
on where they were in relation to the nodes. Different
nodes acted differently- for instance if you went anywhere
nere the magic realms yer tech started to go on the
fritz, but at the other extreme, a 'good' person oculd travel into
the 'evil' realms with no trouble. Then again, magic/tech were
a bit more powerful then goood/evil.

Fomr memory, the order node was the north pole (think
massivly detailed clockwork ice sculptures) while
the north pole was the node of chaos (constantly melting, shifting
and reforming- including the stone). The others were on the equator, evil in
western
africa, (which allowed good to turn up in the pacfic where i decided
mu was), with magic on the american eastern seaboard and tech in
indonesia, i think.

The characters were given three stats,
based on these pairs, which determined what they were.
for instance, paladins were magic, good and order,
while most pulp heros were mildly chaotic, good, with
a balance between magic and tech(hence their low level of tech)
and most superheroes were good, mildly orderly and
either magical; or techniological. Different 'classes'
had diffeent stats as primary, for instance superheroes
didn't really have an important order/chaos thing going
usually.

Similarly, different
genres were set up similarly, hence a heroic fantasy setting
was magic, order and good/evil balanced(northern america,
with a more chaotic barbarian realm in the south)
while a cyberpunk realm was tech, mildly evil, with an
opressivly orderly status quo (massive aI-run
arcrologies in western china) an so on.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: Elementals & Archetypes


>At 03:06 PM 5/7/1999 -0700, Harvey, Michael wrote:
>>> For the new age elementals, I 'd recommend: Time, Space, Order, Chaos.
>>>
>>> This gives two pairs of 'related opposites,' just as fire/water and
>>> earth/air are.
>>
>>Ooh, very elegant. I like it!
>>The four classic elements were arranged in a square:
>>
>> Fire HEAT Air
>> DRY WET
>> Earth COLD Water
>>
>>> Fire: Space + Chaos
>>> Water: Time + Order
>>> Earth: Space + Order
>>> Air: Time + Chaos
>>
>>Using your definitions we can place the "new" elements as follows:
>>
>> Fire Chaos Air
>> Space Time
>> Earth Order Water
>>
>>It would be useful to define their attributes. Maybe something like:
>>
>> ENERGY Chaos QUANTUM
>> Space Time
>> DETER. Order ENTROPY
>
> One could possibly make a grand chart from this, starting with Energy,
>Quantum, Deter[whatever that is], and Entropy as the basics; then moving
>down to Chaos, Space, Time, and Order; then Fire, Air, Earth, and Water;
>then Dust, Ice, Lightning, and Steam (the classic para-elements); and then
>Dark, Light, Metal, and Wood (interpolations I made for my Matrix Magic
>Plug-In for Fuzion). Whether one could take it even further is subject to
>interpretation.
> Hm. I may just have a new extension for the MMPI in the works here....
>
>>Blight ...... Order (inevitable corruption)
>>Deviance .... Chaos (energetic and unpredictable)
>>Progress .... Time (adaptive)
>>Firepower ... Space (industrial juggernaut)
>>
>>You could stretch this and say that the "entropic" aspect of Order is
>>vulnerable to Fire, while the "dry" aspect of fire is vulnerable to Time.
>>
>>I dunno. It certainly isn't perfect, but maybe it'll give someone an
idea.
>
> Well, it did. Happy now? :-]
>---
>Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
>Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 00:26:34 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Superman tecnicolor

there was gold. . and blue i think. . . . but i don't know wether they
rehashed all of them post-crisis.

- -----Original Message-----
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: Superman tecnicolor


>At 05:03 PM 5/7/99 EDT, you wrote:
>>>> No, that would be Green Lantern (who was helpless against anything<<
>>>>yellow). <<
>>
>>It was yellow. Ahh. I think i was thinking of Green Lantern, because it
was
>>yellow that i was thinking of.
>>
>>Or it might have just been a delusion of mine. i havent read anything DC
in
>>years and years.
>>
>>
>Kryptonite came in different colors and had different effects on Superman
>depending on the color. One was Red, one was Green. I don't know if there
>was a Yellow.
>
>
>============================
>Geoff Heald
>============================
>So this is Earth. Not what I expected. Oh, well, I'll have to make do.
>"Behold Earthians! Your new lord has arrived!"
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 00:28:08 +1000
From: "happyelf" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks

most incredibly beefy people have extra presence
and distinctive features, imhho.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks


>>>If the character buys theyre strength up stat as a base stat, they are
>huge.
>>>If they buy theyre strength as part of theyre power package, they
>candictate
>>>size.
>>
>>I always thought that normal looking people whith superstrength had
>>bought
>>some of their strength with Invisable.
>
>I just go with whatever height and weight fit the character and don't
>worry about it. (For instance, I'm running a brick in a Golden Age
>Champs game who's 4 feet tall, 135 pounds, and STR 40.)
>
>Leah
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 10:37:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Superman tecnicolor

On Sat, 8 May 1999, geoff heald wrote:

> Kryptonite came in different colors and had different effects on Superman
> depending on the color. One was Red, one was Green. I don't know if there
> was a Yellow.

There is a gold kryptonite... I forget what it does.

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you may still exist,
but you have ceased to live."
Mark Twain

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 10:45:03 -0400
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Superman tecnicolor

At 10:37 AM 5/8/99 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>On Sat, 8 May 1999, geoff heald wrote:
>
>> Kryptonite came in different colors and had different effects on Superman
>> depending on the color. One was Red, one was Green. I don't know if there
>> was a Yellow.
>
>There is a gold kryptonite... I forget what it does.


At one time, they had introduced Kryptonite in just about every
color of the rainbow, and each one had different effects on
Superman. While I never actually saw this in a comic book, it
was summarized in some Superman trivia compilation.

I guess DC finally saw this system for what it was -- just plain
stupid -- and went back to just good ol' green.



====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 10:50:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Superman tecnicolor

On Sat, 8 May 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Sat, 8 May 1999, geoff heald wrote:
> > Kryptonite came in different colors and had different effects on Superman
> > depending on the color. One was Red, one was Green. I don't know if there
> > was a Yellow.
> There is a gold kryptonite... I forget what it does.

Green K would weaken superman.
Blue K effected Bizaro creatures.
Red K would do somthing weird, like change Superman into an
infant, or a giant, or split him into two supermen, or make his hair grow.
White K had two powers... it effected plants or could grant
someone temporary superpowers (not sure about the second one)
Gold K would permantly strip superman of his powers.

I'm not usre if there are more... I've been searching for my
Superman Encylopedia since this post began.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:41:09 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?

>Well whatever the motivations, at this point it appears that the
>realization or decision has been reached to print books and support
>Hero instead of using digital exclusively and abandon it, which clearly
is
>the wisest choice.

I disagree in the strongest possible terms.

I *like* professionally produced Hero games books that I can use to death
with love and enthusiasm.


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-

http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/

___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:38:31 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: GURPS Hero

>He started out with a comment on how broken the system was, so I
>suspect not. GURPS probably, it seems to be a common thread in GURPS
players
>to slam on Hero, and not really talk about how good Gurps is at all.

On the contrary. I started out with GURPS and I love it. It has simple,
yet flexible game mechanics, excellent world books, and unique
customizable spirit and lots of really cool element.

But after I really learned HSR I found that I liked the system just a
touch better including the arbitration and game balance of powers and
power effects, END v Fatigue, EGO v Will, Comliness v Appearance., PRE v
charm and so forth.

But I kept all th stuff I liked from GURPS and grafted it into my HSR
rules. and it was *easy*, almost as if they'd been designed that way.

So what's the problem?


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-

http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/

___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:50:26 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?

>Id be glad to, but i think weve spent the better part of two weeks
>duscussing them. If i must say it one last time, though, id be glad to.
The >whole intelligence issue, and how its used in game i have issues
with.

How so?

>The fact that everyone buys 20+ dex just because it will make them
stronger in
>combat, i have an issue with.

That's not a problem with the game system, that's problem with the
*players*.

> the fact tha strength is practically free, i have an issue with.
>
>:)

I can easily fix all of them.

Step one don't give the plyers as many CPs to start with.

Step two Install automatic normal characteritics maxima in the game. If
some on wants a super human stat then make them pay double or triple for
it.

Step three: Lower the ceiling of Normal Characteristic maxima to 15 or
so,

Step Four: Change the cost of STR to 2 or 3 pts per level as suits you.

Step five- I have no idea what your specific problems with INT are, nor
how to fix them in one fell swoop. I do have a general theory however.
If Captain Brainiac buys a 23 INT, do *not* let the player roll 3d6 and
say "I use my superior INT to figure it out." (Unless it's a last resort
to move the story along.) If the player wants a super smart character,
ask them to do their level best to *play* it.


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-

http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/


___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:38:45 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: GURPS Hero

>Funny...I use GURPS for all my non-supers and non-super-agent games,
>and I don't seem to have a problem with Hero. Or maybe that's because
they
>published something I wrote, I dunno....
>
>But seriously, do we really have to get into this particular pissing
>contest? Can't we go back to arguing about linked or something equally
>amicable? =)
>
>Shelley Chrystal Mactyre
>http://www.mactyre.net/shelley


Howdy. I started out playing GURPS and I still have and use my GURPS
supplements as source material for HSR. Basically I find that if you use
some of the optional rules in GURPS (Fatigue, Will, etc.) you eventually
wind p with a flaky form of the HSR. I also like the HSR rules for
handling Comliness and Presence (Both of which are advantages/disads in
GURPS and harder to quantify)

I did steal the Reaction table and the Fright Check table from GURPS and
well as several other nifty bits of systemry.

I see GURPS and HSR as imminently compatinble and portable between them.
And I have yet to find a game that I could not do just as well or better
with HSR.

We're playing in an AD&D campaign with the "Player's Option" rules and
tens kinds of cionfusing thing from the CORE RULES 2.0 CD-ROM. I keep
telling the GM that there's nothing there that couldn't be done just as

well with HSR and Fantasy Hero.

And Now I am beginning to think that, incredible though it is to say that
Fantasy Hero is simpler and more straight forward to use than AD&D-CR
2.0.

To my mind HSR has always been the best mix of systemry,game balance and
playability. Now it looks like it's the simplest frame work fom which to
hang mutliple house rules and genre specific rules from.

Lord knows that AD&D seems to have well out lived it's usefulness.


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-

http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/


___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 10:30:45 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Superman tecnicolor/Kryptonite spectrum

At 10:50 AM 5/8/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> Green K would weaken superman.
> Blue K effected Bizaro creatures.
> Red K would do somthing weird, like change Superman into an
>infant, or a giant, or split him into two supermen, or make his hair grow.
> White K had two powers... it effected plants or could grant
>someone temporary superpowers (not sure about the second one)
> Gold K would permantly strip superman of his powers.
>
> I'm not usre if there are more... I've been searching for my
>Superman Encylopedia since this post began.

There was also Jewel Kryptonite, and the Superman Sourcebook for DC Heroes
mentions some green varieties I wasn't familiar with:

[ordinary] GREEN neutralizes powers in Kryptonians and causes blood
poisoning, resulting in death in 128-512 phases (DCH phases, not Hero phases).

ANTI-KRYPTONITE (also green) causes blood-poisoning in non-powered
Kryptonians, resulting in death as above. Argo City rested on a chunk of
anti-kryptonite.

SLOW-KRYPTONITE (also green) affects normal human beings in the same way
that Anti-K affects normal Kryptonians; blood poisoning and death. It was
created by an Earth scientist in an unrepeatable experiment.

X-KRYPTONITE (yep, green again) endows humans with powers similar to
Kryptonians. The effect is initially temporary, but can be made permanent.
It was created accidentally by Supergirl during an experiment.

RED K is green K (sigh!) which has passed through a strange red gas cloud
and been altered by it. Each piece of Red K can cause a different bizarre
effect on a Kryptonian, but a given piece will have the *same* effect on
any Kryptonian. One piece of Red K can only affect an individual
Kryptonian once, and the effects usually last 24-48 hours.

WHITE K kills any nearby plant life. The Superman Sourcebook doesn't
mention any other effects.

BLUE K was created by Superman when he used the Bizarro Duplicator Ray on a
piece of -- wait for it -- Greek K. It only affects Bizarros, and affects
them as Green K affects Kryptonians.

GOLD K is debris from the Gold Volcano on Krypton. Any Kyrtonian exposed
to it for even a moment loses all his powers, or any possibility of ever
having powers (even via the use of X-Kryptonite or other means).

JEWEL K is not kryptonite in the usual sense of the word, and gives off no
radiation. All it does is allow inhabitants of the Phantom Zone to focus
and use their mental energies outside the Zone.

Damon





|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|************* Beware of geeks bearing .GIFs ***************|
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
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| Children's Books -- Dolls -- X-Files -- Pulp Magazines |
| Computers -- Gaming -- All Human Knowledge |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 07:02:32 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Female Bricks (was CHAMP: muscular men and slick chicks)

At 04:49 AM 5/8/1999 -0400, geoff heald wrote:
>
>Another female brick can be found on the team The Southern Knights (it was
>a small press comic). She looked like a cheerleader but could punch out a
>building.

Which brings to mind... how many female bricks can people think of in
comics and animated TV? The ones I can think of offhand include:

Big Bertha (of the Female Furies)
Ms Marvel
Power Girl
Rogue
She-Hulk
Supergirl
Wonder Girl
Wonder Woman
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 07:14:24 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Superman tecnicolor

At 04:43 AM 5/8/1999 -0400, geoff heald wrote:
>At 05:03 PM 5/7/99 EDT, you wrote:
>>>> No, that would be Green Lantern (who was helpless against anything<<
>>>>yellow). <<
>>
>>It was yellow. Ahh. I think i was thinking of Green Lantern, because it was
>>yellow that i was thinking of.
>>
>>Or it might have just been a delusion of mine. i havent read anything DC in
>>years and years.
>>
>>
>Kryptonite came in different colors and had different effects on Superman
>depending on the color. One was Red, one was Green. I don't know if there
>was a Yellow.

As I recall them:
Green = Lethal to Kryptonians.
Gold = Took away Kryptonians' super-powers.
Red = Had an unpredictable effect on any Kryptonian which lasts for 48
hours (and I'll never forget when Ambush Bug found a "glowing red rock" and
decided it would make a perfect gift for his buddy Superman, only to learn
that this particular piece of Red K had the effect of exchanging minds).
Blue = Lethal to Bizzaros.
White = Lethal to plant life.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 07:15:36 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Five

At 10:56 PM 5/7/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> I'm making up a group of Anime-esque agents known as "The Five."
>Actually, it's "The Five, remainder 2," but the two don't count, as one is
>there for Comic Relief and Cuteness and the other is there as a Pet (and
>is, as well "cute.")

I'm gonna archive this bunch.

> Then there's Dara's little sister, Okiko, who is the cut and
>annoying aspect.
>
> Dara will also have a "pet baby dragon" or a spirit, or fairy, or
>something equally silly and pokemonish.

These two can probably count as DNPCs for Dara.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 07:09:31 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: My problems... as per your request

At 01:02 AM 5/8/1999 EDT, AndMat3@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 5/7/99 10:38:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
shaw@caprica.com
>writes:
>
>> If Aid could not be used multiple times, with an increased Maximum, it
>> wouldn't be. But the fact you can spend 45 points of STR out of 30 points
>> of Aid under some circumstances has a lot to do with the pricing. Aid
>isn't
>> _supposed_ to be a substitute for buying other abilities after all. It's
>> supposed to be a suppliment to it.
>
>that's not my point. my point is this: you could buy extra STR as "power
>pills" or you could buy it as an aid. (which is most likely is). if (say)
you
>wanted and extra 24 points of STR (that would be 7d6 of aid)... it would
cost
>you 24 points (minus disads) if you purchased it as straight STR. or it
would
>cost you 70 points if you purchased it as aid.

In your calculations, did you figure in either "Usable By Others" on the
STR, or "Self Only" on the Aid?
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 08:55:48 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Yul Brynner (was The Seven Deadly Sins, and before that New age elementals)

At 04:06 AM 5/8/1999 -0400, geoff heald wrote:
>>
>> [sniffs] "Yep. He's dead all right. Been some time, too."
>> (I just checked the Internet Movie Database at www.imdb.com to learn
>>that Yul died of lung cancer on 10 October 1985. His last work was
>>narrating 1980's "Lost to the Revolution.")
>
>Actually, his last work was an ad for the American Cancer Society. It's
>the very famous one where he looks directly into the camera and says "I'm
>dead now, and smoking killed me."

I think John Wayne did a similar ad.
Before "Lost to the Revolution," BTW, Brynner's last work was "Future
World."
Back on topic (and the main reason I kept this on list), I think it'd be
an interesting exercise to come up with a group of characters (heroes, I
think) based on Yul Brynner movies. One could have the robot gunslinger
(West World/Future World), the Siamese (okay, Thai -- The King and I)
martial artist... and what else? Maybe a Mongol warrior, based on his
Mongolian heritage and his real name of Taidje Khan? A mentalist based on
his 1959 role as Solomon?
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 09:03:41 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?

>Me too! If only I could combine the non-super power side of GURPS
character
>creation with the super-power creation of Champions I would be happy.
>*sigh* back to tinkering around the edges.

???? What's the difference between Heroic level HSR and GURPS? I Don't
see such a huge difference between them

>

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Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 09:00:34 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Superman tecnicolor

> Red = Had an unpredictable effect on any Kryptonian which lasts for
48
>hours (and I'll never forget when Ambush Bug found a "glowing red rock"
and
>decided it would make a perfect gift for his buddy Superman, only to
learn
>that this particular piece of Red K had the effect of exchanging minds).

I wish I could have read that one. I loved Ambush Bug. That was a truly
bent little character.


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-

http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/

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Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 10:20:07 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Superman weaknesses

>I know superman has 0 defense vs. any power that has magic for its
>effect,


For the kryptonian clones in the Omega Squad game (the Alphans), instead
of having all the DEFs say "not v Magic" I said "Magic Does 2X effect"

Because with the one, A handgun blessed with a definably magic FX (Or the
bullets) would just chop up an Alphan in no time flat. But the other way
a Handgun with blessed bullets will do 2X damage. Now for a hand gun this
might not be too impressive.

But I lost my favorite Alphan Character to Vampires that the rest of the
party were kicking around easily. So it worked as intended. The Alphans
had to be carful of magic and it hurt them more, but it wasn't an exuces
to wipe out PCs


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 09:59:35 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: My problems... as per your request

>The problem with that is that at that point Consitution is probably
>too expensive. Most of what it does for you is give you figured stats;
2
>points a point is too expensive just to make you harder to stun.

CON checks are also quite useful for determining resistance to disease,
long term fatigue, and massive, quick changes in temperature or other
environmental conditions.

In my games we do't use it just for STUN.


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

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Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 09:35:41 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: My problems... as per your request

>We have also put in some suggestions for those who are concerned about
the
>costs of stats such as STR. Our main suggestion (remember, this is an
>option) to "fix" the perceived problem that some have with STR, CON,
DEX, etc.
>is this: Remove the relationship between the primary stats and the
>figured stats. All figured stats start at the current base level (that
is,
>figured as if the primary stats were 10); you buy up figured stats if
you wish.
>Figured stats get no benefit at all from higher primary stats. This is a

>simple house rule to implement, and solves the perceived problem with
no cost
>changes required.
>
> Steve Peterson, Hero Games


That's a very clever hack. I have a question- You say "cost changes" as
if it's a bad thing. Why would it be bad to snmply say "STR now costs 2
CP per level"?


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 10:44:48 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: RE: Inquest Gamer: Champions is dead?

>Yes, but having an active Internet presence / webpage is unfortunately
>not the same thing as being visible to the retailers. My own
experience
>with Lone Star Comics here in Dallas was essentially being told that
they
>don't have web access (or perhaps *use* the web) to keep track of
>what's happening with their suppliers.
>
>Probably a shock to everybody here on the mailing list, but I'd even
>venture to guess that this is the case with the majority of the
>retailers.
>
>Curt Hicks


Give it a couple of years. I m seeing a slow, grinding change to
internet awareness all around even among people who are resistant to this
sort of thing.

The initial wave of all of us tech-literate types is over. Now the
Internet ad e-mail are slowly but surely penbetrating the cosnciousness
of the people at large. Within a few years even people who hate the idea
today won't know how they lived w/o the internet.


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

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http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/

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Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 09:53:59 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: My problems... as per your request

>My problem with stats is this:
>either... all the stats BUT STR are priced incorrectly...
>or.... STR is too cheap.

Then change to cost of STR in your campaign. What's the problem?

>i'd be perfectly happy if either were corrected. the math works like
>this:

>5 points of STR nets 5.5 points of
>FIGURED stats+damage(3, as per Hand
>Attack)+lifting(??).

So you're calculating the costs of this how? Okay like if I have a
character with 10 STR and want to ad one more die to a punch, and to lift
more, without buying up STR, as well as increase in figured stats as if
the Character had 15 str, then it would cost me more than just boosting
the characters STR to 15?

But wait. If the character can act in all ways as if he had STR 15 then
why not buy STR 15?

> [that's 8.5 points of free stuff.] That means
>that STR is free (actually, it costs -.1 points per point, or somthing
like >that).

I feel that you're missing a point here but I'll be darned if I can track
it down. Your thesis seems to be that say, a 3d6 punch should always
cost the same no matter how a character gets it. And I can see that.

But a STR 10 character should punch like a STR 10 character. If he can
then punch like a STR 15 character than that's an ability over and above
what he'd naturally have given STR 10 physicality.

STR carries a lot of baggage and effect on how the character operates
becaue it describes a fairly large portion of the Chracter's physical
being. It makes sense that it would be cheaper to describe a character
who can lift large thins becaue it's in his nature to be a large mound of
muscles than to descibe a character who is NOT physically large but
manages such feats. This would not ordinarily be in the character's
nature.

How ever, I think this is a truly minor point. A really picayune thing
compared to some other systems I have seen. No Game system is ever going
to be perfect. None is ever going to perfectly model reality. IMHO you
kinda have to pick the one that works best for your characters and the
stories you like best to tell and run with it.

Demanding perfection of it seems alittle futile to me, personally.

>
>How are Ego, Body and Recovery worth TWICE as much?
>How is Int and Pre worth the same?

Because of their relative effects on game play? Just a guess/

>I know, i've been told... but I still feel the same way.
>
>I was told that the reason that STR was not changed is that all the
>characters in the world would have to be changed to comply with the
>new rules.

Why are you demanding that I play *my* Hero games by *your*
sensibilities? Why don't you change the game for you campaign and see
how that works for you?

>and yet... other things changed. i'm sure that nothing as drastic as
>STR changed, but other people will have to re-do their character sheets
to
>comply with the 5th ED rules. Reworking your character to meet the new
rules
>is what rules revision means.

Steve Peterson answered this one nicely.

>I understand that the price of some powers (like aid) have gone up. that
just
>makes STR that much better a deal. Now (as I understand it), you have to
pay
>10 points per die for a STR aid (question: do you get figs from that??).
You
>roll your 1d6 and you add... (on average) 3 points of STR. How is this a
good
>deal? and it fades!!!

I think the price of AID was also achnged about other things too. I have
seen aid abused horribly before. (Absorb to END POOL, END POOL runs AID
to STR. Every time you hit the fellow He get more aid die to STR. I told
the player "as if!!")

>never buy aid... unless you have a huge multipower and want to slightly
aid
>another character... just buy more stats! they don't fade - or, if you
>like, for a disadvantage!

huh? The chief use for an AID in my games, Except to make the GM scream
was healing spells. STUN and BODY aided up to their normal level do not
fade. At least this was my understanding.

>that's my main problem... and again... STR is free. not fixing this
leaves
>the most basic hole in the system.

For *your* game. For mine the HSR works just fine!

>please understand, I do understand your reasons - I just don't agree
>with them.
>
>andy

Andy, you are free to disagree. just don't do it for me. Run your house
rule and don't demand that HERO change to suit your particular opinions.

JMO


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-

http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 10:21:48 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Superman weaknesses

>Superman is like a living solar battery; he doesn't immediately lose
>all his powers when under a red sun, but they don't get replenished
>except under a yellow sun. A couple of years ago a sun-eater completely

>blocked out all the Sun's radiation, and Superman ran out of juice in a
few
>days.
>Of course, he was really, really busy those few days...
>--_
>Guy Hoyle (ghoyle1@airmail.net)

My Alphans, light weight kryptonian clones do loose their powers undera
red sun. it acts like a powerful drain. in a few minutes they're normal
people.

But they do have to recharge normally under a yellow sun when they
return.


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

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http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/

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------------------------------

End of champ-l-digest V1 #326
*****************************


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