Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 32d

Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 7:55 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #32

champ-l-digest Thursday, November 5 1998 Volume 01 : Number 032



In this issue:

Re: Is this as abnormal as I think it is? (Minority Gamers)
Re: 1st Edition Fantasy Hero
Re: Non-Lethal Weapons
Re: Incorporating Myth without stepping on religion.
Re: Possession?
RE: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)
Re: Where are we all.
Re: Automatons
RE: Campaign Styles/Types
Re: Physical vs. Energy Flash
Re: Physical vs. Energy Flash (was RE: Non-Lethal Weapons)
Re: Look Out! It's Mr. Fist! (SFX: Multi-SFX Gauntlets)
Re: GURPS: GURPS
Re: Everyimmortal skills [long]
Re: Everyimmortal skills [long]
Re: Where are we all.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 16:04:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Is this as abnormal as I think it is? (Minority Gamers)

I'm half Maltese and half other-stuff (mostly European). I am
heterosexual and male. I am also agnostic.

Most of my friends, as well as my neighborhood, is Hispanic. In
all the current games I'm in, the majority of the players are my friends
(ergo Hispanic). I also play with other out of Area friends who are very
Italian, Irish, Polish, German, Jewish, other Euro... and (did I miss
anyone?) mixed... (African American, Native American, and Irish; who is
also 'in area').
Most of my 'in area' RP friends are male. Most of my out of area
RP friends are female. Some groups have been composed of a single gender,
others have been mixed, while in others, I have been the only male.
As for sexual preference, most of my 'in area' RP friends are
heterosexual, and most of my out of area RP friends are (female) bisexual.
As far as religion/philosophy goes, I've played with Catholics,
Prodestants, Jewish, pagans, atheists, etc.
Most regular gamers range from 17-32, averaging in around 21.

My view of things? Well, I like a variety of characters and
personalities. I find many of my male friends will only play straight
young male characters, rarely playing minorities. My female friends tend
to stick withyoung females. Very few of my friends cross the line when it
comes to playing gender, age, or race. I like to mix it up alot, but that
may just be because I like variety. I like player character groups
composed of differing views, races, cultures, nationalities, sexes, and
sexual preferences.

I do have a weakness for playing characters who are dramatic
'romantic hero' (not Harlequin Romance heroes, more like the Byronic
archetype of a hero) ever since my first 2nd grade D&D character. Often
times, they are disfigured, cursed, remorseful, self-sufficent, and not
very typically heroic. They also tend to be very 'weird,' and I have a
hard time playing a mundane character unless everyone else is exotic. I
think to this end, race, at first, is just 'window dressing' to this all
important habit I have... errg.

- -+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+-
"Fools are my theme, let satire be my song."
-Lord Byron; English Bards and Scotch Reviewers. Line 6.
- -=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 21:59:40 -0700
From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com>
Subject: Re: 1st Edition Fantasy Hero

At 11:50 PM 8/4/98 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
>The problems is trying to figure out what 1st ED FH powers are in 4thEd
>terms. I mean 'Killing Blast' is HKA/RKA. Dominate is Mind Control
>(right?). What about the rest of the powers list?
>

1st Edition 4th Edition equivalent or explanation
Accuracy +1 OCV Level, Range/HTH/Weapon 10pts
Adapt Life Support
Aid Aid
Analyze Much like the analyze portion of detect, 1d6/5pts
compared to active of power being analyzed.
Blast Energy Blast
Cloak 10pts for -1 to others Perception rolls to see character.
Create =real points to create independant spells and magic items.
Dazzle Flash
Defense Power Defense
Destroy 15xCHA Cost/1d6 Power Destruct
(Power Drain with _long_ recovery.)
Detect Object Detect an Object
Detect set Detect set of things
Detect Type Detect type of things
Dispel Dispel
Dominate Mind Control
Drain Drain
Haste 2/+1" Running or Swimming
Heal 10/1d6 Heal, restores stun equal to total and body equal to
body rolled on dice.
Illusions Mental Illusions
Images Light Images
Killing Blast RKA
Levitate Flight
Locate Mind Scan
Mind Attack Ego Attack
Mind Defense Mental Defense
Obscure 5/-2 to Detect Rolls
Perceive 5/+1 Perception
Protect 10/+1 DCV of one type
Psychokinesis TK
Restore 10/1d6 CHA Restores destroyed Characteristics
Shadow Darkness
Shapechange Shapeshift into a new form for 20pts, 1/1 point extra in
form
Shield Force Field
Silence 10/-1 Hearing Perception rolls
Sounds Audiable illusions
Summon Summon
Supress Supress
Telepathy Telepathy
Transfer Transfer
Transform Transformation Attack
Transport Teleport
Ward Force Wall


This help? :)

- -Nic

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 01:43:07 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Non-Lethal Weapons

Stainless Steel Rat wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> "o" == opal <opal@technologist.com> writes:
>
> >> So, instead, entangle, based on Ego to break out, +1 advantage.....
>
> o> NOOOO!!! Mental Paralysis was a horrible power, and
> o> Entangle BOECV would be *EVEN WORSE* - don't do it!
>
> Oh, wow. Like, deja-vu, all over again. :)
>
> Okay, what we have here is a classic case of not working from the special
> effects. So, ask yourself, what does a taser do?
>
> Answer: leaves a nasty burn at the point of contact. Leaves the victim
> paralyzed or unconscious for upwards of 15 minutes. Leaves the victim
> incapacitated (though not totally immobile) for upwards of several hours
> after that. Physical or mental fortitude have little, if any, effect on
> these effects.
>
> Game mechanics:
>
> Small RKA (no range for a handheld taser) with an fHuge Stun Multiplier.
> No reason why regular Energy Defense would not apply.
>
> Recovery Drain with appropriate delay on the recovery time, linked to RKA.
> Leave as Power Defense, or shift to an appropriate NND.
>
> There are several ways of dealing with the moderate term effects. Unless
> there is a pressing need to actually pay for them I wouldn't bother. If
> you really have to pay for it, buy a number of 10-point skill levels Usable
> Against Others (literally!).
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: 2.6.3a
> Charset: noconv
>
> iQCVAwUBNd3Lup6VRH7BJMxHAQGGZgQAooRqfBmwYcHGezl8DiU+alJf9v66PADs
> 41BDUK/qHtAb770golniPk+2e27+F9quIfbHKNKaH4io8Hq9dbOlW77FX3sBWp5R
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>
> --
> Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
> PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
> \

Tazer's do little to no physical damage (I can attest to that) and your
physical health does have an effect on how long you are out (I have anecdotal
experience with this). Tasers definately are not any form of killing attack.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:55:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Wong <rook@shell.infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Incorporating Myth without stepping on religion.

> > Yes. But it can be a divisive issue. Let's say I show up to a game
> > full of Soutern Bapist players and pull out my super hero: Jesus Christ. Yes,
> > that's right; the same old guy, recently dug himself out a grave in the middle
> > east to find he was only just a mutant.
>
> OK. Good example. I might argue that you've just demonstrated a sufficient
> lack of common sense that I don't want to play or run in the same game as you.
> i.e. the solution is not to turn around and come up with rules about
> how to handle various mythologies, but just be more selective about the players.But that's really side-stepping the issue.

Well, no; it's no more a lack of sense than playing Thor would be.
They're both mythological figures that if portrayed wrong can cause serious
offense.
I never considered these issues myself until someone showed up in
game with what to them was a cool monster from their D&D days but to me
was a figure of some import in my religious background (Tiamaat, mother of the
earth).
That's when I decided something had to be done to prevent that from
occuring again.

> > Less offensive, but still troubling: My new Japanese SuperHeroine,
> > Amaterasu-ami. She's the real thing. Not a mutant, not a mage, not an alien.
> > This PC singlehandedly made the Japanese people eons ago and is the prime
> > diety. She's got one hell of a VPP, and would only work in a high power game.
> > But of course, playing her would be an uncomfortable thing.
> >
> Not offensive to me, assuming you had enough points to carry it off.
> But granted, potentially offensive to somebody. On the other hand,
> is it going to really make any difference if she truly believes she's
> the 'real thing' or if she actually is the 'real thing' ?
>
Yes. To a player who is Shinto. There is major room for offense if I
choose one path or the other.

I used Jesus in my previous example precisiley because it 'brings the
issue home' to the christian readers on this list.

> > I agree here. My solution was to state that the truth is unknown. And
> > to not determine it for myself either. My delima however arises when I desire
> > to include a mythical being and still maintain that above setting.
>
> Well, what do you mean by 'mythical' ? Centaurs and dragons are mythical.
> Do you really only mean 'beings that were worshipped' ?

Dictionary definition.
Which means being from the myths and theologies of cultures. More or less.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:42:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Douglas Uptegraft <s002cdu@discover.wright.edu>
Subject: Re: Possession?

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, James Jandebeur wrote:

> I think I can field that one: Karma could be interpreted as having a
> seperate "spirit" that she sends out to possess people.

Oh, I see. So, which books that I don't have are these Spirit Rules in?
*Smiles and looks confused* I've been considering getting _The Ultimate
Mentalist_, assuming that I can find it around here. The one for
mages/mystics might be fun, too, as mentalists and mages are my personal
two favorite forms of heroes in the comics.

Besides, what kind of villain is more fun than a telepath? *Grinz as an
evil GM* *Winks*

> Personally, I have significant difficulty with the Spirit Rules in general
> (and went to a lot of trouble to create a compromise system), and I don't
> think they are warranted in this specific case. Since we never see (well, I
> haven't, anyway) Karma's stray spirit form under attack or lost or having
> seperate existance other than the possession itself, it does seem more like
> mind control. But a lot of mind control.

*Nods* I don't seem to recall Karma doing much of anything but getting a
single target to do anything she wanted it to do. It has been a long time,
granted, but I do remember it.

> Hmm, you've seen published stats for that in Champions? Where? I think my
> memory needs refreshing.

It's in _The Mutant File_. The White Queen of Genocide is herself a mutant
with the ability to "vanish" off the face of the Earth. Full Invisibility
and Desolid, basically, linked to each other.

> The joys of Hero system: you get to build everything to your
> specifications. The sadness of the Hero system: you generally have to
> (though some of us think that's fun, too)

Does that mean that working with Hero is like programming in machine
language? *Grinz* *Ponders* The analogy is there, methinks, as are both
the joys and headaches.

I do like this game.

@}-,--'-- * @}-'--,-- @}-,--'- ******* -'--,-{@ * --,--'-{@ * --'--,-{@
| "Every day is a new chapter." ***** C. Douglas Uptegraft |
| *** s002cdu@discover.wright.edu |
| http://www.wright.edu/~s002cdu * OHMagick@hotmail.com |
@}-,--'-- * @}-'--,-- @}-,--'-----------'--,-{@ * --,--'-{@ * --'--,-{@

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:39:00 -0700
From: Wolf, Dave <dave.wolf@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)


> >states?
>
> >>Well let's not forget that most of the comics are written in the US and
> >>the US is the biggest market as I understand it.
>
> Just had to jump in and correct a blaring error.

<Error Snipped>

> Comics started over there and were adopted world wide. It's about the
only
> thing we've ever stolen from them and adopted culturally.

>>I have to jump in and correct *another* blaring error.

>>Comics *are* an American creation. They started in the early 30's
>>really, and collected books of colored Sunday strips were avalaible
>>before then. The first comic books came out in the 20's. In Japan,
>>comics got their start in the 50's, *after* WWII when American sevicemen
>>brought their comics over. The creation of the popular anime style can
>>also be traced to Disney films being shown in post-WWII Japan.

>>Japan created its own unique style of comics, yes, but they are an
>>American creation.

Actually it really depends on your definition of what a comic book is.
If you're talking about something simular to what we have today then
yes, comics have only been around since the 20's and 30's and were
created by the US.

My definition of a comic book breaks it down to the basics, a series
of illustrations used to tell a story combined in a book format. With
that definition comics have been around in japan since the 1600's (a
friend corrected me). They started putting text and stuff in
somewhere around the 17 and 1800's. Of course they didn't have word
baloons and stuff, that didn't come around until the late 1800's and
early 1900's US newspaper funnies. Those of course were also combined
into book format around the same time taking "Comic Books" back before
the 1920's in the US.

As far as Japan adapting the style of the US comics after the 50's
your probably right on that account. But the japanese have had Uokyoe
and pillow books since way before the 1800's. I know what your
thinking, pillow books, how can that be a comic book. But actually
some of them were written with a story line so that technically counts
and those have been around forever.

If you really want to discuss this more, please take it off line. I'm
sure there are plenty of people bored with this discussion. I really
think that if we go off the definitions we are both correct.

Dave


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:40:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: thomas deja <tdj723@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Where are we all.

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I'm in New York City....

"'N I fell for all that'die-like-a-warrior' crap. I've seen clowns fall
off their bikes with more honor"
--Xander Haris, BUFFY TVS #1
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE, Tom Deja's webpage
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj



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Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:25:26 +0100
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
From: Michael Pegg <m.pegg@csl.gov.uk>
Subject: Where are we all.
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I've noticed there seems to be quite a few of us here from the UK.
Where are we all from then?


- --46450500--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:32:57 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Automatons

Filksinger wrote:

> From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
>
> >
> >If that were only true. I was on a contreact about a year ago that was
> >connecting VAXes and DECnet to Digital Unix and TCP/IP. The "Big Iron" is
> still
> >a mixed bag, but it is moving in the right direction. As far as MS
> machines go,
> >here are a couple of my favorite limitations: Looses Speed after 64Meg of
> RAM,
>
> Side effect of certain motherboards, not Win95. Some motherboards (those
> using the VX chipset, I believe, maybe others) do not cache RAM greater than
> 64 MB. Not a Windows failing.
>

Not completely the motherboards, they just get more press. There is an
addressing problem that is a hold over from the old method of using two 16 bit
words rather then one 32 bit longword from addressing. The more 16 bit code the
machine has the more this slows the machine down. At least this is what the MS
tech told me.

> >Very Easily Broken Into,
>
> Win95, absolutely. There are some things you can do to make it harder, _if_
> it is on a network, but it never becomes truly hard.
>
> WinNT, much less so, but still true. Note that, while there are a number of
> ways to break into a WinNT machine if you can get your hands on it, the same
> is true for Unix.
>

NT security is a joke compaired to UNIX, how often will a Unix machine go down
from continuously pinging it as opposed to how often an NT machine will die from
the exact same attack.

> >Crashes on 11 or less when forced to Miultitask (14 or
> >less for Win 1.1 or before, only temp lock up on NT).
>
> I multitask in Win95 and Win98 on a regular basis, and do not, as a rule,
> crash when doing so. Certainly not on an 11-. Note that the lockup is
> generally for the program only for 32-bit programs, but frequently total for
> 16-bit Windows apps.
>

My programs do tend to stress the machine but software the doesn't make linux
brake a sweet can cause NT to slow to a crawl and lock Win 95 up so that it
takes a hard reboot to free it up. Avoid writing socket programs on any MS
system, it is a nightmare.

> > With all these disads is
> >it any wonder there OS's are so cheap (made that is, since MS products are
> the
> >only thing in the computer industry to have gone up in price over the past
> 5
> >years).
>
> Not to defend Microsoft, but I did want to set the record straight.:)
>
> Filksinger

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:17:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: RE: Campaign Styles/Types

On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Brian Wawrow wrote:

> cyberpunk: Anybody got CyberHero? Really a nice supplement for all your
> high tech needs.

I disagree. A lot of the equipment and cyberwear created for thatbook is
very questionable game mechanics wise. At least IMO.

As for games that have been run around here?

Well...

Star Trek - There is a periodic ST game run using Hero rules. The
characters are crew of the USS Venture.

Sengoku - fantasy adventure set in 16th C Japan. defunct

Sons of the Phoniex - Ninja Hero game inspiried by "Big Trouble in Little
China". defunct

Kazei 5 - anime/cyberpunk game. defunct. Game being developed into a
Hero System worldbook.

Silent Mobius Zeta - anime/cyberpunk/horror game set in the anime/manga
universe of "Silent Mobius".

Justiifers - all the supers are mutants. PCs are a Govt team. Uses ideas
taken from Project Sunburst extensively.

Avatar game - gritty '4-color' supers world. defunct

Justice Alliance - 'graphic novel' style supers world. Borrowed some
ideas from Wild Cards and GURPS IST. defunct

Nightwatch - long running (now defunct) supers game that started out with
a 'play yourself' premise. It had two off shoot games, Golden Gate Guard
and the Northern Lights. (also defunct)

Teen supers game - just what it says. Set in 1982 and uses 200 point
characters.

Troubleshooters - set in 2300. A sort of gritty 'Pulp Fiction' feel to
it. on hold.

Bus trip - 0-25 point normals are cast into a strange and wierd world.
Several have developed 'super powers' but no one has a clue as to where
they are...

Twilight 2000 Hero - game set in the universe described in GDWs Twlight
2000.

Uh... and otehr settings and genres

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:49:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Physical vs. Energy Flash

On 24 Aug 1998, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> "N" == Nuncheon <jeffj@io.com> writes:
>
> N> Are you being willfully stubborn to avoid answering the question?
> N> 'Normal' Flash in this case was there to contrast with 'NND Flash'.
>
> No; are you? You are the one insisting on a 'default' special effect for
> powers when no such critter exists.

Excuse me? I'm the one arguing that a bright burst of light and sand in
the face or a poke in the eyes are essentially the same thing - a normal
Flash. I'm not insisting on a default special effect, I'm trying to point
out that one has become common.

> [...]
>
> N> Why, then, do you believe that 'sand in the eyes' should be treated as
> N> 'no normal defense Flash'?
>
> Because if I throw sand in someone's face, either he is affected by it
> rather badly, or not at all.

How do you figure this? The more sand in his eyes (i.e. higher roll on
the Flash Dice) the longer he is going to be blinded - just like the
better look he gets at the bright light, the longer the dazzle takes to
wear off.

Now, if you're arguing that it's relatively easy to completely defuse the
Flash (since it involves something getting put into the eyes) I might
agree with you. But, I would see that as a /limitation/ on the Flash
power, not as the NND advantage. I also think that the Flash Defense
ought to be limited more often than it is...(see below)

> Such an all-or-nothing effect is best modeled
> with NND, with appropriate application of appropriate special effects.
> Someone with Flash Defense defined as having a high tolerance for bright
> light would not get any benefit from it, but a character with Flash Defense
> defined as opaque, nictitating membranes that he can "blink" to completely
> cover his eyes would.

OK, as I understand it, you would do this:

'Sand in the Face' - 2d6 NND Flash (Defense is having eye protection or
covering), OAF Sand, Charges, etc etc

5 pts Flash Defense (sight) - nictating membranes (not affected)
5 pts Flash Defense (sight) - polarized eyes (affected)

Whereas I would be doing the following:

'Sand in the Face' - 2d6 Flash, not vs. protected eyes (-1/4), OAF,
Charges, etc etc

5 pts Flash Defense (sight) - nictating membranes (not affected)
5 pts Flash Defense (sight), only vs. light/dazzle-type attacks (-1/2 or
so) - polarized eyes (affected).

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:53:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Physical vs. Energy Flash (was RE: Non-Lethal Weapons)

On 21 Aug 1998, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> "N" == Nuncheon <jeffj@io.com> writes:
>
> N> Better?
>
> What about special effects that qualify as neither 'physical' nor 'energy'?

What about attack effects that qualify as neither 'physical' nor 'energy'?
Generally, they're done as either a different power or as NND.

> N> Actually - IMHO at least - it's because they're something other than
> N> standard attack powers. Has nothing to do with whether they're physical
> N> or energy.
>
> The one follows from the other, Jeff. A thing that is neither 'physical'
> nor 'energy' as the book defines them is something else.

No, a thing which is not a normal attack or a killing attack is something
else.

Do you deny that 'sand in the face' is physical? That 'bright burst of
light' is energy?

> Why is sand or other caustic agents thrown in someone's face usually
> defined as an NND? Because they are more potent than shining a bright
> light into his face. They can bypass defenses and effects that would stop
> an ordinary Flash attack.

Yes, that's my point - they bypass those defenses BECAUSE everyone assumes
that 'Flash vs. sight' is going to be 'a bright flash of light' by
default.

It is not.

Nowhere in the main rulebook does it say, 'Flash vs. Sight is a bright
burst of light'. Nowhere does it say 'sand in the face should be an NND
Flash'. All of that has been added later, and it is, as far as I can
tell, completely baseless and wrong.

> In Champions, the cost of an attack is borne by the attacker, not by the
> defender. Your proposition shifts the cost to the defender.

Nope. Actually, the cost to the defender is unchanged - if you go back and
look, I suggested '1 point gets you 2 FD/PowD, allocated in whatever way
you wish between physical & mental'.

> All in all, Jeff, you seem to be fixating on what powers are called rather
> than what they do.

How odd. That's exactly what I feel the current stand on Flash is doing.

Please tell me what, in the description of the Flash power, suggests that
a bright burst of light should be a normal Flash, while sand in the face
would be an NND Flash. I've read it several times, and I can't find it.

Alternately, please tell me what in the description of Flash Defense
suggests that 'sand in the face' should bypass it entirely.

J

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:05:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Look Out! It's Mr. Fist! (SFX: Multi-SFX Gauntlets)

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:

> >I suggest HA or HKA, just because they allow the Strength adds.
> >Alternately, you could put a +1/2 advantage on the EB, 'strength adds to
> >damage'.
>
> I'd recomment *not* going this route. No matter how one tries to twist
> around the precise nature of the attack (short of bending the very laws of
> physics), one simply cannot increase the damage done with fire, cold, or
> lightning by adding strength.

But there is also a physical impact - at least, I never got the impression
that Mr. Fist was just laying his hands on someone to cause them damage.
And, equally, some of the given examples were definitely physical attacks
- - so Str should be able to add in those cases. I suggested the HA/HKA/Str
adds just to keep bookkeeping down, so that you're only rolling damage
once instead of trying to fiddle with a system where you roll the punch
damage, and then the fire damage, and applying them separately to
defenses, etc.

> >You might want to consider using Variable Advantage instead of VSFX - this
> >would let you reshape the gauntlets to do AP damage, Penetrating damage,
> >etc.
> >
> >And, of course, you could put 1/4 worth of your Variabel Advantage into
> >VSFX.
> >
> >I had a character with a sword that did this...very nice.
>
> Again, under the given SFX, I'd recommend *not* going this route, and
> for similar reasons (though that sword does sound cool). It just doesn't
> quite describe the desired effect (at least, as I understand it).

Well, I was reasoning that since the gauntlet could change itself, it
could adapt its physical properties to give different advantages. We know
from the examples that it could 'grow' cold iron studs to damage Faerie
folk - why couldn't it grow long iron spikes, to give it Armor Piercing?

There may be a limitation on which advantages the VA could grant, however
- - the gauntlet changing its shape would probably not give the user
Autofire, Trigger, or Time Delay for example.

There also may be other limitations on the VA - for example, AP would only
be used against opponents with over X amount of armor, etc - I don't
recall if the user controls the changing of the gauntlet or not. (If the
gauntlet automatically determines the configuration, some kind of 'sense
weakness' power ought to be built into it as well.)

J

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com

Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:38:08 -0700
From: Darrin Kelley <backflash@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS: GURPS

Egyptoid wrote:

> >Personally, I think the reason WW didn't want...SJG do anymore
> >GURPs adaptations...is that the GURPs versions made more sense.
>
> Well plus its the points thing. Who wants to have this slapped
> in their face: "Your carefully crafted Nosferatu Invisible
> combat dominance machine is worth 900 points and is a
> rules-rape of the highest order, now tone him down a bit
> please..."

3rd Edition Vampire just came out about a week and a half ago. The
entire new rulebook has the rules rapists in an uproar over one little
fact: White Wolf depowered almost all of th Disciplines in Vampire,
changed and clarified the combat rules, and actually gave a sense of at
least an attempt at game balance now. I do own this book. They did a
good job. (NOTE: This is coming from someone that absolutely HATES
Vampire, because of the previous editions.)

GURPS: Mage had an effect on 2nd Edition Mage. White Wolf hired the
writer of GURPS: Mage to do 2nd Edition. The 1st Edition of Mage, which
I read, did not make any sense. The rules were incredibly horrible. 2nd
Edition, the hardcover, gave a consistant and reasonable set of magic
rules now. This was the one White Wolf game that actually got me into
the system. I honestly like Mage. It has some wonderful concepts.

But my big problem with White Wolf stems from the World Of darkness
setting itself, not the mechanics. Human beings, in the World of
Darkness, are not responsable for ANY advances. None of the social,
scientific, or humanitarian. Normal human beings are not responsable for
anything positive in that setting. Only the supernaturals are
responsable for anything positive. This is rediculous. It is anti-human.

> With GURPS you can at least fake "game balance".
> With White Wolf they're wondering why you said that,
> "we're trying to tell a story here".
> JMHO.

Before Vampire 3rd Edition came out, I would tend to agree. Vampire
at that time far overpowered the rest of the White Wolf line. Even Mage.
Now? Well I own all of the White Wolf core books. There is now a sense
of balance. A tenuous balance, at that. But it is there.

However, I am now working on a White Wolf/Fuzion conversion. One
that is as straight over as possible. (Yes, I know an adaptation does
exist. But I wanted to go for more accuracy.) Why Fuzion? Honestly, the
numerical ranges are easier to convert over to than Hero. And it works
better than my prior attempts at a White Wolf/Hero conversion.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:54:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Everyimmortal skills [long]

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Lockie wrote:

> > > > > hmmm. . well if it was REALLy big you could put a city on it. .
> > > >
> > > > Errr... if what was really big?
> > > >
> > > a sloth! broaden your mind!
> >
> > <strained voice> Must... control... Fist... of... Death...
>
> must you destroy everything you don't understand? *l*

It is easier to destroy than to create... easier to pull a trigger than to
play a guitar.

> > Incorrect. My argument was against 'tree-climbing' ferrets. Having
> elves
> > (or halflings) or someting riding giant ferrets instead of horses is no
> > problem, having them climbing trees doesn't sound right.
>
> for one thing, who said anything about vertical clmibing? and anyways
> if you gave them clmibing claws they cou work wonders .

In effect you did. You spoke about 'tree-climbing ferrets'.

> > Now, I doubt that horses 'sucked' for the first thousand years. If they
> > did, who would have kept using them? And many cultures never used
> > horseshoes (American Indians for one), so that analogy doesn't work.
>
> yeah it does. .. horshoes were used in damper locale's, there are other
> examples,

I thought horseshoes were used in dryer locals, to keep the hooves from
being damaged by rocks and such.

> . and the american indian's got horses from the settlers(i think), then
> used them
> as best they could in a relatively short time. .

Nope. Plains indians got their first horses from the Spanish (around
1500-1550) and developed a whole horse culture *very* quickly.

> > >the warpinf effects of domestication
> >
> > The what?
>
> the warping effects of domestication. . just look at what
> mankind did to a beagle in 2000 years. .

Minor correction: dog. Man has managed to 'mutate' the dog into a large
variety of sizes and shapes. OTOH: the cat hasn't changed much at all in
over 2000 years.


***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:11:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Everyimmortal skills [long]

On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:

> > > > Well... yes. Ferrets don't live in the jungle and (AFAIK) don't climb
> > > > trees. OTOH, the large (extinct) ground sloth would make an interesting
> > > > riding animal, and came with rather large claws for defence. If you're
> > > > thinking of a tree-sloth, forget it, there is not practical way to have
> > > a
> > > > giant version one could use as a riding animal.
> > >
> > > hmmm. . well if it was REALLy big you could put a city on it. .
> >
> > Errr... if what was really big?
>
> The tree-sloth? Damn, that's very cool. A city on a giant tree-sloth.
> Maybe there's a whole bunch of these mobile cities moving (slowly) around,
> and whenever the sloths come together, the cities can trade with each
> other - or maybe they can control the sloth's movement...

This sounds like some of the strange fantasy worlds I've seen, where whole
societies live on the bak of an animal or living island or some such.

> The only thing I'd worry about is if the sloth decides to climb a tree (a
> /big/ tree) and hang upside down or something...

The ground sloth I'm speaking of didn't climb, it pushed trees over. It
couldn't hand upside down either, it wasn't designed for it.

> Er. Or when it tried to mate.

Uhh... right...

> But would the young ones have little villages on them?

More interestingly, what would live on them?

> > >and it's not like horses evolved to
> > > have bits of metal nailed to their toenails. .
> >
> > What does that have to do with ferrets?
>
> I think he's saying that since these riding animals were domesticated,
> they could be trained/taught/forced/whatever to do things that they
> wouldn't normally do in the wild.

Point. But I still don't see ferrets climbing trees, they're not rally
built for it; their legs are too short.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:43:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: thomas deja <tdj723@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Where are we all.

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Where else? New york City....

- --Tom, daring you all to get the rope....

"'N I fell for all that'die-like-a-warrior' crap. I've seen clowns fall
off their bikes with more honor"
--Xander Haris, BUFFY TVS #1
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE, Tom Deja's webpage
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj



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Subject: Re: Where are we all.
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:31:01 -0700 (PDT)
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San Francisco California

Where else could one possibly live by choice?

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