Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 32g

Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:22 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #32

champ-l-digest Thursday, November 5 1998 Volume 01 : Number 032



In this issue:

Re: Favorite NPC's
RE: Everyimmortal skills [Guy Hoyle]
Re: Jumping on the latest fad...
Re: THIS IS BLOODY RIDICULOUS!!
Filtering Advice
Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)
Re: Power Concept: Short Circuit
Re: Breadth vs. Depth
Re: Last Minute Scenarios
Re: Power Questions
Re: Gaming
Re: Possession?
Re: Breadth vs. Depth
Re: Power Question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 17:00:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Favorite NPC's

On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Bill Svitavsky wrote:

> Interesting NPC's have been mentioned as an element of "Great Campaigns",
> and I mentioned that a character in my current pirate game, Captain "Mad
> Jack" McPhee, is one of my all-time favorites.

> Anybody else care to share accounts of favorite NPC's?

In my recent Kazei 5 game, I was given some high-praise for two
characters. The first was Shion Nys, a 700 point super-powerful
Akira-level psychokinetic who far outstripped in the PCs in power level.
The characters never actually fought her as a group, atlhough two got into
a nasty fight that left one of PCs the embedded in a wall. What the PCs
*did* do was talk to her. They talked, argued, bought-off, despised,
hated, loved (and made love to) her (not all at once...). She went from
'super-villain' to 'super-neutral' to 'possible ally' in the course of the
game.

I was told by one player that Shion was the character he had never been
able to pull off in a game. The villian who is honorable, and isn't
really a villain, they just have their own way of doing things (which
happens to run contrary to the PCS desires). She was, he said, a villain
one could deal with not fight, and he thought this was one of the best
parts about her.

At the end of the game, her greatest enemy (a PC) had turned into her
closest friend (and possible lover), while the rest of the PCS still
couldn't make up their minds ifthey hated her or not. Some were willing
to let her die (or kill her) others were more like 'who are we to judge'.
A very complex situation.

The second NPC was Katherine 'Kitten' Ramis, cyborg bounty hunter from the
same game. She started out as a bit-player, became enamoured of one of
the PCs (the only other cyborg in the game), fell in love and eventually
tired to marry him. She is possibly may favorite NPC out of the cast
(long story on that regard). She was cnetral to several plots, and the
interaction between her and the cyborg PC was pretty interesting. We
wrote a lot of stuff via e-mail (sort of like Bluebooking) which enabled
both of us to generate some intimate conversations (and emotional ones)
without feeling foolish or embarassed.

I was highly pleased when one of my female players said: Shion & Kitten do
not come across as men. They read like female characters, or, at least,
not male characters.

Oh, and both of them will be in the K5 worldbook.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:12:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: RE: Everyimmortal skills [Guy Hoyle]

On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Michael (Damon) or Peni R. Griffin wrote:

> The immortal character, having many homes to remember, will not remember
> any one of them in as much detail as a person who (a) has only had one home
> country and (b) still lives there. This is appropriate and is covered by
> the existing depth-vs.-breadth trade-off applicable to any KS.

Fine by me. He also won't know anythign about the current states of those
countries/cities/whatever.

> There is unfortunately no similar mechanic in place to allow this
> "spreading" of TF, PS and Languages to be handled in the same way. Despite
> that, I think the same rationale that applies collectively to "Places the
> character has lived" should also apply to "Professions the character has
> had to do for a living", "Languages the character has spoken as the primary
> local language" and "Things the character learned to drive as a primary
> (not recreational or frivolous) means of transport".

I would allow this for PS, but the immortal would have to buy any skill he
wanted to make a living at as a separate skill - anything else has
degraded to the point where he can only do the simplest things. I
wouldn't let someone with PS: Past Professions forge a good sword, for
example, even if he had been an armorer back in the 1300s.

As for TFs and languages, though, there's a problem. TFs are either there
or they aren't. You can't make a TF broader but shallower - either you
can drive a car or you can't. Languages are similar. Neither one of
those mechanics has a skill roll attached to it, which is how the GM is
supposed to balance depth vs. breadth.

Example: the comic book skills you mention above. Bob has 'KS: Comic
Books', Mike has 'KS: Australian comic books', and Jones has 'KS: Squadron
Supreme comic books'.

For some bizarre reason, it's important to the plot to know what
Nightfighter always calls Southern Cross. Squadron Supreme is pretty
obscure here in the States, and knowing about the interaction of two of
the characters would be pretty unlikely. Bob gets a -8 to his roll. I'm
not sure how popular SS is down under, but Mike would probably only get a
- -2 or so. Since it's a major part of the comic, though, Jones would get a
+4 or so to his roll, and immediately say, "A poofter."

Er...my point is that you can't do that with TFs or languages, because
there's no skill roll attached. Your immortal with his hypothetical
'Past Languages' skill at 4 can speak French, Spanish and Italian just
as well as native speakers of each of those languages, but without paying
more points?

I've got to ask...why is it so important to your concept that you get
these skills as 'Everyman Skills'? Why don't you want to pay for them?
Do you expect them to be of little use during the campaign (and they're
thus only there for 'flavor'), or would you just like to get a bunch of
Languages, TFs, AKs, and PSes for free? What, /exactly/ are you trying to
accomplish?

J

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:14:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Jumping on the latest fad...

On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Jason Sullivan wrote:

> Also, I've tried to keep with the spirit of the character's
> backgrounds. Both BB and Spidey are named after insects, have sceintific
> tendencies (with gadgets), and let out humours quips in combat; The Big
> Red Cheese and Thor are both 'normals' who go through mystical
> transformations; Batman and Punisher are both vigilante types who have
> lost loved ones by means of violence caused by the criminal element;
> Aquaman and Sub-Mariner are both princes of Atlantis... etc.

One problem you might have is that many of them are too close already -
they're like alternate-world versions of each other. (Sub-Mariner and
Aquaman come to mind) I think the best 'Amalgams' happen when they take
two characters that aren't necessarily related: for example, combining
Spider-man with Superboy (or whatever he called himself) - since they had
similar attitudes, it worked out better than it would have if they had
similar powers/backgrounds. The 'Speed Demon' idea is another good example
of this - you wouldn't normally think of combining Ghost Rider and the
Flash.

Maybe you should put a bunch of cards with Marvel names in one bowl, and a
bunch with DC names in another, and draw them out and match them up. You
might get some unworkable ones, but I bet you'll get some that will fit
well if you work with them for a bit, and be a little more interesting
than a Hawkeye/Green Arrow combo.

Here's some ideas:

Superman & Colossus - Kal-el's rocket was knocked off course by something
that also changed his genetic structure - a chunk of red or gold
kryptonite, perhaps? (I never remember what color does what.) It landed in
the USSR, where he was adopted by the Rasputin family (That is Colossus'
last name, isn't it?). Now, he can only access his Kryptonian heritage by
undergoing a physical transformation into a Man of Steel...
(I got this one from the 'Man of Steel' title that is given to
Superman...and of course matched it up with one a little more literal)

Batman & Iron Man - In this world, the mugger who shot his parents also
shot young Bruce Wayne - but the boy survived, albeit with a fragment of
shrapnel in his heart that required him to use a pacemaker. Turning his
driven mind to technical pursuits, he devised a suit of armor that would
keep him alive and allow him to fight crime...a suit of armor in the shape
of an iron bat.
(Batman & Iron Man are both owners of massive financial empires and users
of technological gadgetry, and their origins can fit together with a
little work.)

Hmm, how about something /really/ odd. How about... Spider-man and the
Joker? No, wait, that'd be the Creeper, nevermind. How about...Wolverine
(gotta have him in a crossover, he's Marvel's cash cow) and the Flash?
He could spin around real fast and be called the Tasmanian Devil...no?
OK, they're not all good ideas. But you get the picture...sometimes the
less obvious connections are the way to go.

J

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:56:58 +0000
From: "J. W. Eiler" <jw_eiler@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: THIS IS BLOODY RIDICULOUS!!

> Let's not assign to enemy action that which might be explained by sheer
> stupidity. This sort of thing has happened before, usually when someone's
> server goes nuts. Personally, I'd doubt that anyone would do this on
> purpose.
>

<Shrug> I dunno, this looks an awful lot like a forge-flood that was on
several of the alt.religion groups a couple of months ago. Someone's
taken the effort to preserve the original "To:" headers, and it looks like
the "bang" path origination was forged as well.

Truth to tell, there were several old threads that I didn't mind getting --
though I would have liked a measure of choice in the matter <g>.


J. W. Eiler

Some die, shouting, in gas or fire,
Some die, silent, by shell and shot.
Some die, desperately, caught on the wire.
Some die suddenly. (This will not.)
Rudyard Kipling -- A Death Bed

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:47:33 -0500
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Filtering Advice

Let's say that you now have these two filters defined:
- Filter out any mail with "m00bi800@cwcom.net&"
- Send all mail with "champ-l" to the Champions folder.

Most e-mail programs only filter the incoming mail. If your "Send
to Champions" filter is applied first, all the m00bi800 crap may
still end up in your Champions folder.

Solution:
- - If your program allows filtering of other folders, use it.
- - If your program allows ordering of the filters, do that.
- - You can apply your filters manually (Eudora, for instance) to the
Champions folder.



====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:14:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Anglo-HERO (Re: San Angelo Opinions)

On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, m wrote:

> > > > >It's bad enough that the only Kryptonians we see are caucasian in the
> > > > >animated series (and in the normal Superman comic book back in the 70's,
> > > > >the only place on Krypton you'd find black people was on a tiny island
> > > > >called Vathlo).
> > > well ermn, isn't that a good thing? based on the setting, and if i
> > > remember correctlythey were kinda super-advanced. . .?
> > Ethnic segration is advanced? What's advanced about one race not
> > interacting with another? Persoanlly, I think super-advanced Kryptonians
> > would have had no qualms about inter-racial relationships, and by the time
> > it blew up, you'd have all the seperate 'racial types' of Krypton whipped
> > up together.
>
> well, that's an elitist view of history. . the idea that anyone truly
> 'advanced'would be behaving the way we think is right.

A case can be made that a morally advanced race or people would recognize
that all people of the same sepecies (like their own) are equal,
regardless of skin color, nationality, religion or place of birth. Based
on everything I've even seen (which, admittedly isn't a lot) Krypton wa
home to a 'morally advanced' people.

> the group had good
> background-
> a 'lost land' of techniologically advanced persons, fit in well with the
> 'pulp adventure' style of the whole tales of krypton deal. To say that all
> advanced
> cultures are automatically polotically correct is a fallacy.

Recognizing that people are equal and should be accorded equal rights and
recognition is a 'politically correct fallacy'? *That* is a very narrow
view of the world.

> For all WE know,
> kryptonians may have actually been a seperate species from the valtho. . .
> do they STILL have to live together in harmony, tra la la la la? where do
> you draw the line?

Well, it would be nice. If the one race doesn't psoe a threat to the
other, then why not? And by posing a threat, I mean by actively
assulting on another, not the fact that they exist being considered a
'threat'. Human history had far to many cases of one people wiping out
anotehr 'because they were there'. Look at the American Indian, the
Spanish treatment of the Indians they met in Central America, the crusade
vs the heretics in Prussia by the Knights Templar, the Japanese pushing
back the 'barbaric' Ainu and so on.

Hmmm... hasn't there been conflict among the Aborigones and white
Australians to this effect?

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 23:02:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: thomas deja <tdj723@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Power Concept: Short Circuit

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not neccesarily--there are situations (I'm thinking complex battle
armor) where there can be a partial disruption of 'service'--in such a
case, that Body Drain Matthieu suggested might be a good idea....

"'N I fell for all that'die-like-a-warrior' crap. I've seen clowns fall
off their bikes with more honor"
--Xander Haris, BUFFY TVS #1
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE, Tom Deja's webpage
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj



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Subject: Re: Power Concept: Short Circuit
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thomas deja wrote:

> Okay, time to pick your brains:
>
> I just started playing a character called The Tide, who controls water.
> One of the abilities I'd like to buy for her in the future is the
> ability to short out high-tech weaponry by flooding their systems with
> water.
>
> I've been thinking about how to build it, and I'm not sure. My ideas
> (and they're vague) include: a Minor Transform, an AP KA usuable only on
> high-tech electronics, and a suppress. Your thoughts?
>

I would think a dispel is what you are looking for. Since this type of
attack would be an all or nothing atttack. You either short out the power
and make it useless or you don't harm it at all.

> "'N I fell for all that'die-like-a-warrior' crap. I've seen clowns fall
> off their bikes with more honor"
> --Xander Haris, BUFFY TVS #1
> ____________________________________
> THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
> available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
> _______________________________
> MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE, Tom Deja's webpage
> www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj





- --33274831--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:50:59 -0400
From: David Stallard <DBStallard@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Breadth vs. Depth

Message text written by Brian Wong
> Expanding only on disk for a few hardcore adherants. Most of
whom are neither Hero's older fan base (pre 4th), nor it's newr fan base;
post CNM & San Angelo. Now we have two new 100% consistant
universes, and one dog that looks like more of a mutt than Crisis-DC. I say
let it die off. But that's me. Future stuff should be geared (IMHO) to
either San Angelo, CNM, or
be generic and low on detail (allowing all three camps to use it).<

I agree here. I think all future effort should go into either CNM (Fuzion
supplements) or San Angelo (Hero supplements), or else be completely
generic as far as setting goes. I intend to use one or the other of these
settings (SA or BC), and all my Champions Universe-based books will be used
as "generic" supplements that I can use or draw from. I'm not sure how
many people are still going to stick with Champions Universe now that San
Angelo is out, though...if a lot of people still want to stick with CU,
then maybe my comment isn't appropriate.

>> I think the bulk of us use our own worlds, and take things
piecemeal
from the books.<<

I'm not sure that this will remain the case, now that there are solid
settings for both Hero and Fuzion.

>>I want lots of personality detail. I want to know if the guy likes little
kids, I want to know if he's real meanie or a guy down on luck and acting
desperate. And yes, I want to know his favorite color. I want to know how
he'd
act if he faced overwelming odds. I want to know if he's a loner or a team
player... I want to know what makes him tick and how I can roleplay him.<<

In addition, I would like to see LOTS of combat tactics (more than is
typically offered in already-published books)--I essentially use these to
make each villain unique in combat. It also keeps me from running all the
villains the way *I* would do it in combat, which is easy to slip into and
makes all the villains pretty much the same. By using the tactics as a
guide, the players can't use their knowledge of *my* psychology to figure
out what the villain will probably do.

>But I could care less if he used to work for Villain Y, or if he fought
the
Toledo Hero Squad in 94...
All that's going to made obsolete by my own campaign's setting anyway.<

I strongly disagree with this...character history is very important,
especially for intermingling the PCs' histories with the universe. I'd
prefer that the supplements use stuff like this to make the published world
more intricate, and let people who make their own world handle the problems
with changing names and whatnot. I just really believe that the majority
of players will use a published setting and so that's what supplement
should support--that means no "generic" supplements either. Basically, I'd
like the company to adopt a "you're on your own" policy to people who make
up their own world and focus the attention of the supplements on the
"official" setting(s). Maybe this sounds weird for a generic system to be
so non-generic as far as setting goes, but I certainly would have less
interest in a generic book than in one based on the setting I use.

I realize that this message is anti-Champions Universe and anti-homegrown
world, but I think these two groups are minorities, or at least they will
be once San Angelo becomes more established.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:48:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: thomas deja <tdj723@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Last Minute Scenarios

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*dealing with a massive traffic accident where one of the 'victim cars'
is carrying a hazardous cargo
*Industrial accidents (I.e. spilled smelter, mine explosion, etc.)
* hostage situation caused by terrorists or desperate robbers.

"'N I fell for all that'die-like-a-warrior' crap. I've seen clowns fall
off their bikes with more honor"
--Xander Haris, BUFFY TVS #1
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE, Tom Deja's webpage
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj



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From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
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To: champ-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Last Minute Scenarios
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My latest GM seems to be having some difficulty finding time
to work on scenarios. I thought it might help to come up with
a list of scenarios that can be run with minimal preparation and
planning.
Here's what I've got off the top of my head:

- - animals escape from zoo or circus
- - prison riot
- - cycle gang rampaging through mall
- - dealing with a blackout
- - dealing with a flood

anybody else got suggestions ?

Curt

p.s.
(this is for an 'emerging powers' game, where the characters are
starting superheroes and have not yet faced superpowered opposition.)


- --67623031--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:32:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Power Questions

On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> I'm working on a character with some rather odd powers and am looking for
> feedback on the following:
>
> Creating Solid Objects: The character can concentrate and eventually
> produce a solid object. I'm thinking Transform, Major, Cumulative, Limted
> Class of Objects (simple technological devices). Limitations to include
> Extra Time, Concentrate, No Range and Activation.
>
> Now, how do people feel about this sort of power application? The
> character could summon things like flashlights, a baseball bat, a handgun
> and other 'simple items'. Do people feel this is an abuse of Transform?
> If not, should I use the Body listing in the Champions book to determine
> how long it takes to create something? If this sort of power *is*
> abusive, I presume a gadget Power pool is the way to go.

I'd do it as a variant gadget pool, personally - assuming of course that
it's a superheroic game and thus players have to pay points for equipment.
If they don't, I might be tempted to use Transform, just because it'd be
faster/easier (and for that matter less abusive - it's one thing to create
a sword out of nothing in a Fantasy Hero game, but to be able to do it in
a Supers game where that attack would normally cost you points is a bit
off)

> Mass Mind Control: If you have an Area of Effect Mind Control and use Mind
> Scanning to locate a mind to affect, then you should be able to hit
> everyone in the Radius of Effect even though you didn't locate these minds
> in the first place?

Um...sure, as long as the AE wasn't Selective or Nonselective. You'd
center the AE on the person you've found, and control everyone around them
as well.

> Extra-Dimensional Movement: First, if somone can create a 'gate' (I plan
> on using the Mystica Master/USM gate modifiers for this) big enough to
> 'drive a truck through' one would use a simple mass multiple to represent
> this, right? You don't need Area of Effect, right?

Hmm. At first glance, it looks like you would need AE, /but/ after
thinking about it a bit, I don't think you would. After all, if you could
take the truck with you using EDM without the Gate modifiers, then unless
something in the Gate power limitations prohibits it, you should be able
to drive it through the gate with you as well.

Doesn't the Gate power already include AE: One Hex or something? I don't
own either book so I don't have the writeup...

> Second - is EDM: Mars abusive? Or should I buy just insane amounts of
> teleport?

Assuming that the gate or whatever can only go to Mars, I think that this
is a fine use of the power. I suppose you could buy lots of teleport with
the limitation 'Only to Mars and back', but since the ability to go from
Earth to Mars is more like the ability to go from Earth to, say,
Pellucidar than it is teleportation*, I'd let you use EDM.

* - EDM has no direct control over the destination - you'd presumably go
to an analogous point on Mars to the point on Earth & vice versa, because
otherwise you could use it as a teleport-substitute**.

** - "Hmm, I need to go from Florida to Canada. I'll teleport to Mars and
then back..." - that's abusive if you're buying it as EDM.

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:21:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: thomas deja <tdj723@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Gaming

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That's the thing, Jay...the mechnics of Hero allows for better, more
preise play--but the philosophy of gaming and storytelling methods are
stronger in GURPS.

although, to confuse things further, there are other gaming systems I
turn to for other things. For example, the Mayfair version of CHILL has
the best damn article on scenario construction in the horror genre i've
ever seen. DC HEROES contains one of the best articles on the weaving
of subplots into a campaign....and so on.

"'N I fell for all that'die-like-a-warrior' crap. I've seen clowns fall
off their bikes with more honor"
--Xander Haris, BUFFY TVS #1
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE, Tom Deja's webpage
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj



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In a message dated 98-10-04 09:36:00 EDT, you write:

<< Agreed--the GURPS World Books are sometimes invaluable (I particularly
like the margin articles about cultures and variations on the things
discussed in the main body). I just mever cared for the system.

My PBeM world does utilize the 'Quirks' system to gain disad points. >>


I think to think that I play Hero in a GURPS sort of fashion. But then I
learned a lot about Role Playing from GURPS...

Jay <Meow!>


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:01:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Douglas Uptegraft <s002cdu@discover.wright.edu>
Subject: Re: Possession?

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:

> Jericho, using the target's senses and all that. In fact, as I remember
> it, when Karma speaks through another person, the voice comes out sounding
> more like her own than the other person's.

It has been a while as I was telling James since I last read any of the
New Mutants. I remember her from back then and thusly mentioned her.
*Smiles* All I recall is Karma and someone linked and her having
difficulty keeping the link going (The story I'm remembering is one with
the NM in Asgard; Karma had been possessed herself apparently and had
gained a TON of weight...which she loses by going through some weird
desert.).

> In the early days of the Hero System, I probably would have given her
> around 24d6 Mind Control and fudged the rest, but from what I understand of
> her powers it'd work more closely to a Spirit possession.

I just thought of a nasty way to combine Drain and Mind Control. Couldn't
one use an Ego Drain to sap an opponent's will and have a limitation on
the MC that the opponent must be first effected by the Drain? It would
certainly slow the length of time that it takes for the victim to free him
or herself....

Nasty.

> The difference, of course, is that she's also in full control of her own
> body when she takes control of another; hence the Duplicate. Tying the two
> together so that they essentially share the same mind could be done with
> the Psychic Bond element given for Mind Link in The Ultimate Mentalist.

Between what you and James have said, I guess it makes sense. My big
problem is that I don't have many of the books, certainly none from the
Ultimate Fill-in-The-Blank series. Makes me think that I should invest in
such when I get the opportunity.

I'm taking for granted that I need to get TUM because of how frequently
you comment and quote from it, Bob; It sounds like a useful thing to have.

> Yes; in fact, the "classic" way of writing up Jericho has been using a
> much-Modified combination of Desolidification and Mind Control.

*Nods* I can see that.

> This is one of the few advantages of SFX-based systems. I'm going to be
> interested in looking closely at Living Legends when it comes out. :-]

LL? Isn't that the modern update of _Villains & Vigilantes_? *Ponders* I
remember enjoying that game a few years ago. That was before my group
found Champions. *Smiles*

I still recall our first disasterous romp with Champions: "The Isle of Dr.
Destroyer." *Grinz* A Human-Torch wannabe, a generic brick, a
telepathic/telekinetic dork with an ego problem and a guy with electrical
powers all being played by neophytes under a newbie GM try to save the
world. As I recall, the egotistical egoist managed to get a couple of the
teammates almost killed by being a jerk to the opposition. *Smiles* In the
end, I think, Dr. Destroyer succeeded. *Oops* *Grinz*

Those were the days....

@}-,--'-- * @}-'--,-- @}-,--'- ******* -'--,-{@ * --,--'-{@ * --'--,-{@
| "Every day is a new chapter." ***** C. Douglas Uptegraft |
| *** s002cdu@discover.wright.edu |
| http://www.wright.edu/~s002cdu * OHMagick@hotmail.com |
@}-,--'-- * @}-'--,-- @}-,--'-----------'--,-{@ * --,--'-{@ * --'--,-{@

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:38:22 -0700
From: Rook <rook@infinex.com>
Subject: Re: Breadth vs. Depth

> > Actually, I think they should have as few NPC heroes tied to a specific
> >location as possible. After all; they only add complications if I set my
> >game there.
>
> What I was thinking here was NPC teams that could fill one or more of
> the following functions:
> or taking the high-powered
> situations (like Doctor Destroyer, Firewing, Eurostar, or Hach-U-Rui) while
> the PCs cut their proverbial teeth on lower-powered or otherwise
> less-threatening cases (like Foxbat, Factor 7, the Corporate Raiders,
> Project Sunburst, or CLOWN),

I dunno. Even if I'm playing a standard, by the BBB 250 point PC I
don't want to made second string. I don't want to be told "you guys
handle the non threatening stuff, we'lll deal with the real issues."
Players want a challenge. There's nothing more satisfying than actually
having a team of beginning heroes find a way to deal with Firewing or
Dr. Destroyer. In my own game I set up a power level like the BBB's but
put the PC's as accidental replacements to a global strike force. They
always face overwelming odds, and we do light breaks between to release
the tension (which is all Foxbat or CLOWN deserve anyway). As a result,
the players feel a real sense of accomplishment when they win.

> 2. An "alternate niche" group that could handle one type of situation
> while the PCs handle another type -- a sort of jurisdictional division. As

This is sort of ok. But only works in world as populous as Marvel or
DC's. And even there it's a stretch at times.

> while the PCs handle one of the others. Or the PC team could be designed
> to handle some particular "jurisdiction" in some other way, such as things
> involving mutants, aliens, high technology, etc. In this way, questions
> like, "How come all of the situations in this region are dealing with X?"
> or, "Why does all of this stuff just happen to take place near our HQ?" are
> more easily avoided.

It should be the NPC team that has the built in restricted
jurisdiction. So that the GM can give the players an open or restricted
forum to work within.

> 3. A combination of the above two is narrow specialists who handle a
> particular type of matter. The specialty should be unusual enough that

Yeah, this would work.

> 4. A group that doesn't *really* do anything against crime, but is
> mostly good as plot complications. This could mean comic relief; or, the

Another angle here is something like Marvel's Hellfire Club. Not really
villains or Heroes; but often opposed to the heroes. Something along the
lines of a fraternal organization of supers allied for their own
advancement.

> > By contrast a book full of NPC heroes that can be dropped in wherever
> >and whenever I need would be handy. One full of mostly lone heroes
> >rather than teams like Allies was.
>
> You're thinking of a book of heroes and other (ostensibly) "good guy"
> supers like Felix-9, Interference, Long Walker, and Totengeist? Perhaps a
> few street vigilantes could be thrown in as well... it sounds like a
> possibly workable idea. :-]

Hmm... Yeah. save that I feel the street guys should have a seperate
book.
They really are a different campaign style and a lot of us don't like to
mix the two.

- --
Rook WebRPG TownHall Magistrate townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ Nothing vast enters the life of mortals without a curse.
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:33:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: thomas deja <tdj723@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Power Question

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Off the top of myhead, a massive transform attack--Anything into edible
foodstuffs, with the special effect being Matter Eating Lad 'eating it'

"'N I fell for all that'die-like-a-warrior' crap. I've seen clowns fall
off their bikes with more honor"
--Xander Haris, BUFFY TVS #1
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE, Tom Deja's webpage
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj



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Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:57:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Power Question
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A friend of mine has asked me to pas this on:

How do you simulate Matter Eater Lad in Hero system?

Assorted power suggestions are very welcome.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************



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------------------------------

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