Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 344

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 1999 6:07 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #344


champ-l-digest Sunday, May 16 1999 Volume 01 : Number 344



In this issue:

Re: Non-Persistant Persistant Powers
Re: Non-Persistant Persistant Powers
Re: First Characters (was Magus)
Replying to recent comments
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is Dead?
Re: KAZEI 5!!!
Re: The Hero system
Re: First Characters (was Magus)
Re: First Characters (was Magus)
Re: Persistent
Re: Replying to recent comments
Re: Queries
Re: The Hero system
Is this legal?
Re: Is this legal?
Re: Trigger
Re: Is this legal?
Re: Is this legal?
Re: Is this legal?
Re: The Hero system
Re: Is this legal?
Re: The Hero system
Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is Dead?
NCM Move By/Through
Re: Is this legal?
Re: FTL Travel
Re: Is this legal?
Re: Replying to recent comments
Re: Fifth Edition
Re: First Characters (was Magus)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 02:54:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Non-Persistant Persistant Powers

On Sat, 15 May 1999, Mitchel Santorineos wrote:

> >How much of a Limitation is it to make Persistent powers non
> Persistent?
> I assume you mean Continuous powers? People very often
> confuse Continuous and Persistent. Continuous means that it continues
> working, even when the character has no action. Ex. A Force Field
> protects someone, even on his non-action phases.
Nope. I meant Persistant.
> The question is, why would you want to make a constant power instant?
> You don't want your Force Field to shut off every phase, do you? Or
> your Darkness to turn off at the end of each of your action phases?
Concept deems it non-Persistant.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 02:55:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Non-Persistant Persistant Powers

On Sun, 16 May 1999, Rick Holding wrote:
> SURGAT wrote:
> > How much of a Limitation is it to make Persistant powers non
> > Persistant?
> Do you really want to do this? Making your armour non-persistant can
> be very dangerous. To answer your question, it would depend on what the
> limitation is applied against. You get knocked out amd your IR vision
> no longer works would be -0 as you cant see anyway and to turn it back
> on would be a zero phase action. You get knocked out and your armour
> doesn't work would be at least -1/2.
Yes, I really want to do this. The non-Persistant power is an
important part of the concept.
> And now I remember that its not only getting knocked out but getting
> stunned that will turn off non-persistant powers makes it even more
> dangerous.
Are you sure?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 03:02:24 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: First Characters (was Magus)

I have no idea what edition of Champions we used, but it was 1986 or 1987.
I was in high school, and a bunch of college students played in a small
store on the edge of campus.

My first character was Nick Springer, a former security guard who had been
exposed to a nuclear accident and gained Superleap, an all or nothing batch
of Running, a little flight, and boosted speed and dex for his martial arts.
He was way outclassed by everyone else, but I really didn't know how to
build a character.

My second character was for the same campaign. He was sorta based on
Hawkeye and I called him Arrowsmith. He was Robin Hood and had survived
the centuries because of a magic serum he had gotten from Merlin. He now
was dependant on the serum and would start to age rapidly if he didn't get
it each day. He also had a bunch of trick arrows.
Neither the GM nor I was ever happy with his trick arrows. I wanted to
have 36 of them, but 36 charges doesn't pay any better than infinite
charges. Add to that that not all of them have the same price, and
multipower doesn't really work for it.

I've never tried to re-make him in 4th ed, although I suspect Gadget Pool
would be the best way to handle the arrows.


============================
Geoff Heald
============================
So this is Earth. Not what I expected. Oh, well, I'll have to make do.
"Behold Earthians! Your new lord has arrived!"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 03:22:24 EDT
From: GoldRushG@aol.com
Subject: Replying to recent comments

<< For those of you keeping score at home, I thought you'd like to know that=
,=20
after over a year of work, I've finally turned in the completed 5th Edition=20
HERO System manuscript to Hero Games as of today. Time for editing and=20
layout....>>

Good lord. Who knows how long editing could take! :D

<< All I know is SOMEONE better be beating up Seeker on the cover or I'm not=20
buying it. I know how to identify a GOOD HERO product when I see it! >>

Hm. Well, San Angelo: City of Heroes =96 a Hero/Champions campaign sourceb=
ook=20
=96 didn=92t have Seeker on the cover at all, and it was just nominated for =
the=20
Origins Award for Best RPG Supplement. ;)

<< The instant sell cover would be a victorious Foxbat, brandishing his=20
ping-pong gun, over a fallen and battered Seeker. >>

That would be pretty cool. ;)

<< BTW, the Hero System Glossary defines "Edit" as "To liberally sprinkle=20
with errors."
Just kidding...... I hope. >>

Pretty low blow. Nobody=92s perfect. Editing is a lot more than checking=20
grammar and spelling and math. It involves (at times to a much greater=20
extent) cutting material, changing syntax, adding material, etc. It=92s a lo=
t=20
of work to properly edit a manuscript, and sometimes errors slip through;=20
even seemingly obvious and glaring errors. :/

Mark @ GRG

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 01:01:23 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is Dead?

>>Okay, thank you. Why Alternity?
>
>Because I think the mechanics are likely the soundest for what I'd
>want to do, mostly. It's a bit less cinematic in it's bias than Hero,
but is
>a bit more full featured a system than some others I could use...such as

>C.P.2020.

How does Alternity stack up in comparison to GURPS?


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-

http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 02:23:49 PDT
From: "Mark Doherty" <markdoc@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: KAZEI 5!!!

>
> > Kazei Five, Michael Surbrook's anime gentre/campaign book is finally
> > ready! K5 covers the cypberpunk/powered armor/psychic power end of the
> > anime spectrum, and is full of rules, campaign background, psychic powers,
> > powered armor suits, cyborbs, cyberwear, gear, cyberspace, and more. Kazei
>
>cyborb? "cybernetic orbital satellite"?

It's from Hero games - you expected spell checking? ;-)

Cheers, Mark


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 02:20:58 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: The Hero system

>> I'll go on record with the heretical thought (for a Hero fan) that
>outside
>> of superheroes, there are probably individual games that have been
>> customized to most very specific genres and do the job better than
>Hero. On
>
>I agree. IMO, these games are: Call of Cthulthu, Toon and Feng Shui
>(maaaaybe Paranoia).


Toon, maybe. I have read the CoC game but not enough to really grok th
system, and I have never seen Feng Shui.

What is it about CoC that works better than Hero-CoC might?

>> the other hand if you have anything other than the specific sort of
take
>> they're trying for, you may very well need to do more work with those
>> specific games than you do with Hero. I tend to think of Hero as the
Swiss
>> Army Knife of game systems; it may not always be the best tool for the
job,
>> but then, you may well not own the best tool for the job, and it may
not
>> even exist.
>
>A very valid point and very true. Also, Hero is very intergrated, so
>that characters from different games can mesh together very weill with
>little reworking.

A nice turn of phrase as well. What I liked best about HSR once I really
understood it was the way it adjudicates the effects of powers and
magical effects on characters. Very balanced and the effects are very
well spelled out. That's was really sold me.

>> This isn't even going into the issue of not having to relearn a new
system
>> all the time instead of using one you know quite well...
>
>Heck, play GURPS. You might have to relearn the system everytime you
>switch genres...
>--
>Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com -

Depending on what Optional rules are invoked perhaps. I still think that
GURPS works fine as HSR-lite


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-

http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 03:00:35 -0700
From: Tracy L Birdine <hawk291@juno.com>
Subject: Re: First Characters (was Magus)

My first HERO character was the Slammer nanotechnology enhanced
supersoldier I posted way back...

It was interesting shoehorning the different powers to simulate the
bioenhancements...

Then I had to do a character sheet with the Slammer Armor. Not to
mention the stats for the 'Razorgun', a ballistic particle accelerator
that is their primary weapon.

I have yet to do up a sheet for the DemonSoldier battlesuit, which will
be a challenge in itself since part of it is organic...


|- /\ \\/ |< [ ICQ: 32038562 ] ghostwalker@ifr-inc.org
CO/4th Batt., The Horsemen, Black Horse Regiment
*---===( )===---*
Black Horse Webpage: http://www.ifr-inc.org/staffpages/tb.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:33:53 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: First Characters (was Magus)

At 11:03 AM 5/15/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> Come, come, now... let's all sit down and share stories about our
>First Characters.

All righty, if we're going to go there....

My first character was a more or less straightforward Energy Projector
named Captain Photon. I've used his several times in various campaigns,
and drawn him up variably with Elemental Controls or Multipowers for his
light-control powers.
The only unusual thing I did with him was his personality, something
which I've kept constant through the years. This is a man who has
definitely read too many comic books, especially campy ones and old ones
with lots of cliches. He loves to enter the scene with a great show of
derring-do, blasting his way into a room and announcing, "Now, vile fiend,
surrender or face the wrath of Captain Photon!"
Well, I was trying to keep things simple, since I was still trying to
learn the system.... But he has, as I say, been a recurring favorite of
mine over the years, and often I like to use him in a game when he's not
inappropriate.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:40:36 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Persistent

At 05:15 PM 5/15/1999 -0700, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>Am I alone in this, or does anyone else think that Persistent costs too
>much? I don't really see it being equal in utility to Armor Piercing or 0
>END cost, for example. It used to be a +1/4 advantage and it looks like
>the only reason its a +1/2 now is that it makes 0 END cost/Persistent a
>nice round +1 for most powers.

The balance of these two considerations (Persistent alone isn't really
worth more than +1/4, and 0 END Persistent ought to be a nice, round +1),
along with a need (at least, a perceived need) for a step between 1/2 END
and 0 END, led me to propose the following schedule:

+1/4 1/2 END
+1/2 1 END
+3/4 0 END
+1 0 END Persistent

I don't think this got into the new rulebook, though.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:43:12 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Replying to recent comments

At 03:22 AM 5/16/1999 EDT, GoldRushG@aol.com wrote:
>
><< BTW, the Hero System Glossary defines "Edit" as "To liberally sprinkle
>with errors."
>Just kidding...... I hope. >>
>
> Pretty low blow. Nobodyís perfect. Editing is a lot more than checking
>grammar and spelling and math. It involves (at times to a much greater
>extent) cutting material, changing syntax, adding material, etc. Itís a lot
>of work to properly edit a manuscript, and sometimes errors slip through;
>even seemingly obvious and glaring errors. :/

While I do think he was mostly kidding, I do think that it would be a
fun "in-joke" to actually include this in the glossary. ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:41:50 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Queries

At 05:09 PM 5/15/1999 -0700, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>Two Questions:
>
>First, how would you suggest building a Force Field that acts like a Force
>Wall (as in a force field that is in a line, distant from the creator and
>does not prevent passage. This would not collapse if the wall was
>breached, and could be moved, the special effect in this case is actually a
>'wall of winds' that swirls and deflects attacks).

Personally, I'd use Force Field, Area Effect: Line, Usable At Range.
(UAO is arguable, but this is expensive enough that I wouldn't bother.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 08:08:18 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: The Hero system

>>I agree. IMO, these games are: Call of Cthulthu, Toon and Feng Shui
>>(maaaaybe Paranoia).
>
>Toon, maybe. I have read the CoC game but not enough to really grok th
>system, and I have never seen Feng Shui.
>
>What is it about CoC that works better than Hero-CoC might?

The base insanity rules. They tried to work them out for Horror Hero, with
limited success, but they are so simple and elegant in Call of Cthulhu and
the game just works together well for that.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 11:50:17 -0400
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campuscwix.net>
Subject: Is this legal?

I've usually rejected consstructs like this on the grounds they seemed a
little abusive. But are they book legal or not? Here's the example:

A character purchases:

Flight 20"
Running:10"

and:

Multipower:20
2u: x16 noncombat Flight
2u: x16 nonombat Running


"Kill the humans!"
"I'm a litlte tired, can I just give them a savage beating instead?"
Bender:Futurama

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 08:55:48 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Is this legal?

At 11:50 AM 5/16/99 -0400, Kim Foster wrote:
>I've usually rejected consstructs like this on the grounds they seemed a
>little abusive. But are they book legal or not? Here's the example:
>
>A character purchases:
>
>Flight 20"
>Running:10"
>
>and:
>
>Multipower:20
>2u: x16 noncombat Flight
>2u: x16 nonombat Running

Sure, I've done it before, that makes someone immensely fast, and I don't
really see how abusive it could be. It won't have any real impact in
combat, it will just let the person fly very fast (although not too
horrendously fast, depending on their speed). Stuff like this makes it
feasible to have comic book level high speed movement like Rogue (who out
flew a Jumbo Jet once, but isnt all that fast in combat flight).

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 11:05:12 -0500
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Trigger


>>ctaylor@viser.net writes:
>>
>>> OK you aren't the first to claim this, but I have yet to see in the
rules
>>> where it says this. I also would like to point out that Trigger at
the
>>> base level costs the SAME as Persistent, which seems to suggest
(coupled
>>> with the fact it is not stated nor implied in Trigger otherwise) that
>>> Trigger does not make the power persistent. If it did, that seems
like you
>>> are getting persistent for free, which I suppose could be true, but
seems
>>> awfully odd.

That's because Trigger actually ISN'T making a power Persistent. Once a
Persistent power is turned on, it remains in effect until it can be shut
off. A Triggered power isn't even turned on until certain conditions are
met, after which it lasts its normal span of time, whatever that is. As an
example of a Persistent effect, try a magical fire that burns and burns
forever unless it is quenched by the blood of a king; compare this to an
ordinary landmine, which can lie dormant for years until somebody steps on
it, which is an exaple of Trigger. Clearly, Trigger does not grant
Persistent, because the Triggered power is not even activated unless its
triggering conditions are met.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 11:10:56 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Is this legal?

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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The new rules will have a new flight power called Mach Speed. For every =
10pts the person can move at 1x mach. This helps to easily make =
characters fast characters like you Rogue example.

This power is already in use in the Creation Workshop program.

Mitchel Santorineos
ICQ# 22259362
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
To: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campuscwix.net&> hero-l@sysabend.org =
<hero-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Sunday, May 16, 1999 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Is this legal?
=20
=20
At 11:50 AM 5/16/99 -0400, Kim Foster wrote:
>I've usually rejected consstructs like this on the grounds they =
seemed a
>little abusive. But are they book legal or not? Here's the example:
>
>A character purchases:
>
>Flight 20"
>Running:10"=20
>
>and:=20
>
>Multipower:20
>2u: x16 noncombat Flight
>2u: x16 nonombat Running
=20
Sure, I've done it before, that makes someone immensely fast, and I =
don't
really see how abusive it could be. It won't have any real impact =
in
combat, it will just let the person fly very fast (although not too
horrendously fast, depending on their speed). Stuff like this makes =
it
feasible to have comic book level high speed movement like Rogue =
(who out
flew a Jumbo Jet once, but isnt all that fast in combat flight).
=20
=
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- -
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
=
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- -


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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>The new rules will have a new flight =
power=20
called Mach Speed.&nbsp; For every 10pts the person can move at 1x =
mach.&nbsp;=20
This helps to easily make characters fast characters like you Rogue=20
example.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>This power is already in use in the Creation =
Workshop=20
program.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><BR>Mitchel Santorineos<BR>ICQ#=20
22259362</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>Christopher Taylor &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:ctaylor@viser.net">ctaylor@viser.net</A>&gt;<BR><B>To: =
</B>Kim=20
Foster &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:nexus@uky.campuscwix.net">nexus@uky.campuscwix.net</A>&gt;=
; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:hero-l@sysabend.org">hero-l@sysabend.org</A> &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:hero-l@sysabend.org">hero-l@sysabend.org</A>&gt;<BR><B>Dat=
e:=20
</B>Sunday, May 16, 1999 11:01 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: Is this=20
legal?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>At 11:50 AM 5/16/99 -0400, Kim Foster=20
wrote:<BR>&gt;I've usually rejected consstructs like this on the =
grounds=20
they seemed a<BR>&gt;little abusive. But are they book legal or not? =
Here's=20
the example:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;A character =
purchases:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Flight=20
20&quot;<BR>&gt;Running:10&quot; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;and:=20
<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Multipower:20<BR>&gt;2u: x16 noncombat =
Flight<BR>&gt;2u: x16=20
nonombat Running<BR><BR>Sure,&nbsp; I've done it before, that makes =
someone=20
immensely fast, and I don't<BR>really see how abusive it could =
be.&nbsp; It=20
won't have any real impact in<BR>combat, it will just let the person =
fly=20
very fast (although not too<BR>horrendously fast, depending on their =

speed).&nbsp; Stuff like this makes it<BR>feasible to have comic =
book level=20
high speed movement like Rogue (who out<BR>flew a Jumbo Jet once, =
but isnt=20
all that fast in combat=20
=
flight).<BR><BR>---------------------------------------------------------=
- -----------------<BR>Sola=20
Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide<BR>Soli Gloria Deo&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Solus=20
Christus Corum=20
=
Deo<BR>------------------------------------------------------------------=
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 12:13:36 -0400
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
Subject: Re: Is this legal?

>>A character purchases:
>>
>>Flight 20"
>>Running:10"
>>
>>and:
>>
>>Multipower:20
>>2u: x16 noncombat Flight
>>2u: x16 nonombat Running
>
>Sure, I've done it before, that makes someone immensely fast, and I don't
>really see how abusive it could be. It won't have any real impact in
>combat

While I am on the fence as to whether or not this is abusive, I couldn't let
the above comment go by without one of my own. :-)

Ever heard of the "Move Through" or "Move By" combat maneuvers? Your inches
of movement directly contribute to the amount of damage you do. Granted,
you would be half OCV for moving non-combat [ (OCV - 2)/2 for Move By and
(OCV - v/5)/2 for move through ] but you get to add quite a few dice to your
attack.

Look at Move By, as the OCV is much better and the attacker only take 1/3 of
the damage. If the attack were to hit, the character would do STR/2 +
128d6.

Odds are the attacker would die along with the target, so this example is
pretty extreme ... still, I would say that there is an "impact' in combat.
:-)

~ Mike

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 12:24:11 -0400
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
Subject: Re: Is this legal?

>I've usually rejected consstructs like this on the grounds they seemed a
>little abusive. But are they book legal or not? Here's the example:
>
>A character purchases:
>
>Flight 20"
>Running:10"
>
>and:
>
>Multipower:20
>2u: x16 noncombat Flight
>2u: x16 nonombat Running


I am really on the fence on this one. I don't like to see movement or
non-combat multipliers in multipowers unless your constructing a vehicle or
have a really _strong_ character concept for doing so.

Assuming the above is legal though, why not just do the following?

Multipower: 60
6u: Flight 20" (x16 non-combat Flight)
6u: Running 20" (x16 non-combat Running)

You end up with 10" more of running and it costs 12 less points. Or you can
drop the running ultra to 10" to get exactly the same thing, and shave off
another 2 points.

If I were the GM I might not allow either way ... but it's hard to say. I
would have to see the full character.

~ Mike

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 03:01:46 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: The Hero system

>> Maybe if the Hero Guys decide to revive the Hero System Almanacs
>>(something which I, for one, would be strongly in favor of), maybe the
IC
>>rules can appear in the first new one. :-]
>
>I second the motion. All in favor? Motion carries.
>
>Begin chant:
>BRING BACK THE ALMANACS!
>BRING BACK THE ALMANACS!
>BRING BACK THE ALMANACS!
>(continue chant until hoarse)
>
>Damon

Count me in there, too.

BRING BACK THE ALMANACS!


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-

http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 09:12:38 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Is this legal?

At 11:50 AM 5/16/1999 -0400, Kim Foster wrote:
>I've usually rejected consstructs like this on the grounds they seemed a
>little abusive. But are they book legal or not? Here's the example:
>
>A character purchases:
>
>Flight 20"
>Running:10"
>
>and:
>
>Multipower:20
>2u: x16 noncombat Flight
>2u: x16 nonombat Running

Technically it's legal, but I wouldn't allow it. At the very least, I'd
want the extra inches of Running and and equal amount of Flight in the
Multipower (which is both cheaper, and more in line with the concept of the
rules).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 10:12:27 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: The Hero system

>>What is it about CoC that works better than Hero-CoC might?
>
>The base insanity rules. They tried to work them out for Horror Hero,
>with limited success, but they are so simple and elegant in Call of
Cthulhu
>and the game just works together well for that.

Ah. And you can't port these rules into HSR?


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-

http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 10:31:04 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Inquest Gamer: Champions is Dead?

>>How does Alternity stack up in comparison to GURPS?
>
>It's a little more grainy than GURPS, but not as, I don't know,
>fiddly. (Yes, I know that explains damn-all).


Actually, and fighteningly enough i think I may dig what you're trying to
say...

but by grainy do you mean the grains are larger or smaller than GURPS?
By comparison, I find that character points in HSR and GURPS while
comparable are actually lightly different. The GURPS CPs are smaller. In
some cases it takes more of them to get the same effect, but the level of
specific control is higher. In short the resolution on GURPS CP is a
little higher.

An inexact comparison would be that a GURPS CP is about 2/3rds a HSR
point, but that's not really accurate. They two systems use points in
different ways in different places.

> Basically it's not customizeable in
>quite the same detail, but the trade off is that it's less easy to
>'break' if you catch my drift.

Yes. I get that.


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-

http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 10:11:30 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: NCM Move By/Through

On Sun, 16 May 1999 12:13:36 -0400 "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
writes:
>>>A character purchases:
>>>
>>>Flight 20"
>>>Running:10"
>>>
>>>and:
>>>
>>>Multipower:20
>>>2u: x16 noncombat Flight
>>>2u: x16 nonombat Running
>>
>>Sure, I've done it before, that makes someone immensely fast, and I
don't
>>really see how abusive it could be. It won't have any real impact in
>>combat
>
>While I am on the fence as to whether or not this is abusive, I couldn't
let
>the above comment go by without one of my own. :-)
>
>Ever heard of the "Move Through" or "Move By" combat maneuvers? Your
>inches of movement directly contribute to the amount of damage you do.
>Granted, you would be half OCV for moving non-combat [ (OCV - 2)/2 for
Move By
>and (OCV - v/5)/2 for move through ] but you get to add quite a few dice

>to your attack.
>
>Look at Move By, as the OCV is much better and the attacker only take
1/3 of
>the damage. If the attack were to hit, the character would do STR/2 +
>128d6.

Do the Math. A character with an OCV of 6 (Dex 18) wind up with an
adjust OCV of one during the move by manuever. During the Move through,
they'd be at OCV 3 -15 or Adusted OCV of -12. They'd have to roll -1 on
three dice and that's *before* you factor in the target's DCV. By y
reckoning the average character would have trouble hitting the planet
Earth doing such a move through...

>Odds are the attacker would die along with the target, so this example
is
>pretty extreme ... still, I would say that there is an "impact' in
combat.
>:-)
>
>~ Mike


But only one. even if the target takes KB the hapless PC is still taking
a 64 die attack. That would kill anyone in the Omega Squad game. If
they hit the Earth and the Earth took no KB (Quite a bit of KB resistance
in the old girl) then that would mean the full 128d6 attack to both
targets. The character would leave a very sizable crater, and no hint of
their physical existance.

My Alphan lightweight Kryptonian clones have this sort of super high NCM.
The main game effect is that they can cover huge areas of distance in a
short time. They usually get into and settle combats before anyone can
get there, or they can arrive to take part in other people's combats
before they are resolved.

So the Alphans tend to hog stategic movement and search patterns. My
favorite alphan Character Kalvin about killed himself doing a 20" flying
move through that missed and impacted the ground. If he had't had
excessive regeneration the GM would have had him rolling for permanant
paralysis due to broken neck and skull injuries.

oops.


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-

http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 10:48:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Is this legal?

>I've usually rejected consstructs like this on the grounds they seemed a
>little abusive. But are they book legal or not? Here's the example:
>
>A character purchases:
>
>Flight 20"
>Running:10"
>
>and:
>
>Multipower:20
>2u: x16 noncombat Flight
>2u: x16 nonombat Running

Technically that's only legal if he can only use the outside flight and
running when the multipower slot pertaining to it is active. At that point,
he might as well put the whole thing in the slots for the most part.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 19:04:52 +0100
From: "Simon David Taylor" <beron@labyrinth.free-online.co.uk>
Subject: Re: FTL Travel

Thanks for the suggestions. Just a quick clarification:

>If this is something the character can do with a particular ship (the one
>he or his group paid points to own), then the neural interface is just SFX,
>the ship itself has the FTL power and no Limitation is needed.

This is a grey area. In this campaign, characters don't generally pay points
for equipment. The ship was effectively a "freebie", that is it came into
the PCs' possession as part of the campaign's plot.

>If the character can accelerate *any* [spaceworthy] ship to lightspeed,
>which is what I think you had in mind, that complicates matters.

The character's ability to accelerate the ship to lightspeed is innate, but
they can only affect the entire ship because it is effectively an extension
of their nervous system; i.e. they could do the same to another ship only if
it had the same neural network built in. The character can *not* accelerate
themselves to lightspeed without a ship . . . at least, not *yet* (and when
they acquire the ability, they may well have to pay the points for it).
Given this, can I simply say that FTL flight is part of the ship, and
therefore the character needs only pay the points for the ability to control
it (i.e. Combat Piloting)?

Simon

"A sensitive time approaches just before dawn
that carries them further to nowhere
the field will be gorged upon the sacrifice made
despite all their efforts to take care" - Magnum, "So Far Away"

beron@unforgettable.com
http://start.at/labyrinth

------------------------------

Date: 16 May 1999 14:14:06 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Is this legal?

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

* Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campuscwix.net> on Sun, 16 May 1999
| Flight 20"
| Running:10"
| and:
| Multipower:20
| 2u: x16 noncombat Flight
| 2u: x16 nonombat Running

I would not allow it. While powers inside and outside frameworks may be
used together, they are not the same power. Thus, the x16 noncombat Flight
does not 'add' to the 20" of Flight -- it adds to nothing. Same goes for
the x16 noncombat Running. Either buy the whole movement power outside the
Multipower, or buy the whole thing as a single slot.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 19:13:18 GMT
From: mhoram@relia.net (Curtis A Gibson)
Subject: Re: Replying to recent comments

On Sun, 16 May 1999 07:43:12 -0700, Bob wrote:

>At 03:22 AM 5/16/1999 EDT, GoldRushG@aol.com wrote:
>>
>><< BTW, the Hero System Glossary defines "Edit" as "To liberally =
sprinkle=20
>>with errors."
>>Just kidding...... I hope. >>
>>
>> Pretty low blow. Nobody=92s perfect. Editing is a lot more than =
checking=20
>>grammar and spelling and math. It involves (at times to a much greater=20
>>extent) cutting material, changing syntax, adding material, etc. It=92s=
a lot=20
>>of work to properly edit a manuscript, and sometimes errors slip =
through;=20
>>even seemingly obvious and glaring errors. :/
>
> While I do think he was mostly kidding, I do think that it would be a
>fun "in-joke" to actually include this in the glossary. ;-]

The in joke was even made by the guys themselves.. I remember a
commentary by Steve long about the questionaires and he mentioned=20
Bill Svitavsky, who then commented that he had hope for H5th as Steve
spelled his name right. Steve Peterson responded that it hadn't been
edited yet and it was his and Bruce's job to put in the mistakes and
mispellings.=20

I remember that- I appreciated that the guys don't take themselves to
seriously.

- -Mhoram


What is called glory, I think, is mostly the relief you feel after
you've fought and lived through battle without getting maimed. If you do.
- -Harry Turtledove Krispos Rising

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 13:30:33 -0700
From: James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com>
Subject: Re: Fifth Edition

> The cover has not been done yet, but we're working on an abstract design.
> This is the Hero System rule book, not Champions. The book is not specific to
> a genre, and therefore the cover art will not be specific to a genre, either.

Still, the idea of the victorious Foxbat standing over a battered Seeker
does have its appeal for the Superhero Genre book or maybe the next
Enemies book with Foxbat in it.

heh.

Or maybe a continuation of the cover of the Fourth Edition: Seeker
lithely dodging Dr. Destroyers energy bolt only to have the wall in Dr.
D's other hand slam down on him.

JAJ, GP

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:06:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: Re: First Characters (was Magus)

I can't remember my first character, But I'll never forget the comedy of
error that was my first champions game. Our AD&D DM was burning out so
he bought champions. We had two players and the GM and we were used to
playing three characters each. After a quick read though of both
champions I &II I choose my concepts. First I chose a Capt. America
clone with a shield that would absorb incoming energy blasts and shoot
out is own. I bought it as a drain or a transfer. The first time we used
it, the GM discovered he had no idea how the power worked. I got hit
with a 10d6 and by the time he was done I was firing back a 20d6 blast.
When I bought my own rules later I also learned that Drains don't
provide defences either. My second character was a batman clone. I
asked what Presence did and the GM said it made you more noticeable, so
I bought it down to zero. Latter he was hiding from someone and the GM
said he would never notice me with a presence of zero. My third
character was a swordswoman and and the best written. Her only problem
was during our first game, " the Island of Dr. Destroyer ", She ended up
alone in a dark hall with Wyvern.

As for the rest of the team... My shield guy had our only ranged attack.
We had a brick with STR 100 and a DEX 10, by the end of the game we were
throwing villains at him for move-through damage. After we finally beat
the good Doctor, I can't remember how but it was pretty much the GM
giving us a lot of luck rolls, we had 5 minutes to stop a rocket launch.
we had three or four scientist, but our only computer skill was my
Batman clone with a familiarity skill of 8-. the next 20 minutes was me
trying to roll under an 8, I made it with like 8 phases to go. our next
team was heavy in range attacks, skill bonuses, and computer skills :)

------------------------------

End of champ-l-digest V1 #344
*****************************


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