Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 358

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 10:07 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #358


champ-l-digest Wednesday, May 26 1999 Volume 01 : Number 358



In this issue:

RE: [FLUFF] a question of 10
Re: [FLUFF] a question of 10
RE: (null)
RE: (null)
RE: (null)
Re: (null)
Re: Suggestions Wanted
RE: (null)
Re: (null) -Division isnt high math
Re: Suggestions Wanted
Concentrate
Re: Suggestions Wanted
Fantasy HERO & Questions about it...
Re: Suggestions Wanted
Re: Concentrate
Fantasy HERO & AD&D
Re: Concentrate
Re: Final Fantasy Hero
Fw: OT: and CrossPosted
Re: Fantasy HERO & AD&D
Re: Fantasy HERO & Questions about it...
Re: Suggestions Wanted
Re: Final Fantasy Hero
Re: Fantasy HERO & Questions about it...
Re: Fantasy HERO & Questions about it...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 17:49:25 EDT
From: MWStrong@aol.com
Subject: RE: [FLUFF] a question of 10

howz about these:

a) 10 perk (50 vehicle points), make sure that the vehicle has 5-10 pts of
life support,
20 pts of FTL, etc

b) (3) immunity to aging
(7) science skill (9+int/5) pick two: Fusion Tech, Warp Field
Engineering, Force Field engineering, Robotics (nanite design),
etc.

c) (10) 1d6 transform (radioactive waste to gold, platinium, iridium, other
rare metals), ranged (+1/2), increased range (+1/4), increased
endurance (-3/4)

It is easy to be selfish, but can you be selfish and make it look good?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 17:58:05 -0400
From: "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net>
Subject: Re: [FLUFF] a question of 10

>a) 10 perk (50 vehicle points), make sure that the vehicle has 5-10 pts of
>life support, 20 pts of FTL, etc

Don't forget to add time travel.

>c) (10) 1d6 transform (radioactive waste to gold, platinium, iridium,
other
>rare metals), ranged (+1/2), increased range (+1/4), increased
>endurance (-3/4)

More useful would be a 1 pip cumulative transform, anything to anything.


Personally, I'd just take 2d6 of Luck.


Dave Mattingly
http://haymaker.org

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:24:55 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: (null)

Brian Wawrow wrote a generally good list:

> As for what constitutes a good gaming attitude, I look for
> the following...
> [1] They *want* to play and will actively schedule real life around a
> regular game schedule where feasible.


On the other hand, it's sometimes nice to have other interests, even though
they do compete with this hobby.


> [2] They have at least a smidge of creativity and don't want
> to clone thier
> favourite character. If it looks like Wolverine, smells like
> Wolverine and
> sounds like Wolverine, revisit the concept.

Some new players do well to start out ripping off their favorite characters.
What turns out to be more of a problem for me is "What do you mean I don't
have enough points for my Iron Man to do everything the REAL Iron Man has
done in any issue that ever came out?" Though even this hasn't been much of
a problem.

> [3] They're prepared to do a little independant study and work at
> understanding the rules so as not to bog down the sessions.
> That, or they
> should already know the rules and respect your house-rules
> and variations.
> [4] They should be fairly intelligent [see #3]
> [5] No sucks, crybabies, attention-hogs, @$$holes, bullies or other
> antisocial types given to bouts of melodrama or fits.
> [6] They must wave the Nerd Flag proudly. Nobody should play
> who couldn't
> bear to have anyone find out what they're doing.
> [7] They must be willing and able to pay for their share of
> snacks, smokes,
> pizza, lap dances or any other customary game related expenditures.
> [8] They must always bring their own f#cking pencil and their
> own godamn
> notebook.

I think these apply in other social spheres as well. Well maybe not the Nerd
Flag. . . . :) And if they play okay, I'm often willing to loan them a
pencil. :)




grant


(who has plenty of pencils and few people to play with right now)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:18:52 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: (null)

Christopher Taylor wrote:

> On a related point, we have started to use hexless matts,
> just a blank matt
> with a plastic sheet over it to draw the terrain on. If you
> want to move,
> you measure it out, if you want to shoot, you shoot, then we
> measure the
> range to see the mods and if you made it, etc. The estimating really
> helps, especially for people who 'rule play' and use the SPD
> chart and such.


This is a good idea and I think either this sort of thing or a hex mat would
work fine for me, but I'm going to whine some more just because I feel like
it. :)

In the game I played there weren't any inches of anything at all really.
Instead the GM drew on his folding table with a dry erase marker a maybe 8
1/2" X 11" "map" (after he'd described it all in much confused detail) and
threw a few miniatures and counters around. Then he "estimated" the
distances for us: the character with 5" of Tunneling was able to move around
as much as my character with 15" Flight. While I understand some players'
desires for some simplification, why did I pay for all that flight if it
didn't make me move more? I'm just annoyed. . . . :)


> We use the OCV+11 -(3D6 roll)= DCV hit system so that the
> players dont need
> to know the DCV of the opponent, and all this adds up to
> making it more
> something in your imagination and less on paper.


I prefer this too. Probably because it what Christopher started me on. :)


(More whining follows. . . )

I was using this method when I played with the new group even though they
worked it the regular way (too many years of habit). Anyway, during the
combat I told the GM what I hit then he'd decide whether I did or not. When
the villains attacked, he asked me what my DCV was, rolled some dice, then
told me whether they hit or not. This may not sound as fishy as it felt to
me. It seemed that the dice may have been just props, and the GM decided
whether I hit or whether the villains hit just out of his head. I have no
problem with this except why then roll the dice?

I apologize to all of you (though not sincerely because I'm still sending
these messages) for my ranting. I wanted to play so much, and it was so
disappointing. Obviously the GM and I aren't communicating clearly to each
other what we expect.

Of course I'm desperate and will try playing a few more times to see if I
can get used to it. Does anyone have any suggestions for how we can come to
a better agreement so we can all enjoy ourselves? (see there's a little
relevance here after all.)

thanks,




grant

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:25:40 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: (null)

Christopher Taylor wrote:


> Its been my experience that people pick up Hero fast even if
> they dont know
> ANY gaming system, its fairly intuitive and I have gotten
> pretty good at
> teaching the system and keeping the hard math away til they are ready.


For all the complaints I hear about how complex HERO is, I see people
picking up the system very quickly. This doesn't mean they can go home and
make the character they want work well all by themselves, but a helpful GM
solves that problem quickly. One player I know never figured out how to make
a character (as far as I know) and had a great time playing his characters.
And the "hard math" Christopher referred to is, I believe, Subtraction
(Additions tricky partner). Of course I'm preaching to the rest of the choir
here. :)

As I've said (unclearly) before, maybe HERO should try some new marketing
techniques (though I don't have any good suggestions right now).




grant

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:14:39 -0400
From: "Stephen B. Mann" <smann@cnsvax.albany.edu>
Subject: Re: (null)

> Christopher Taylor wrote:
> > On a related point, we have started to use hexless matts,
> > just a blank matt
> > with a plastic sheet over it to draw the terrain on. If you
> > want to move,
> > you measure it out, if you want to shoot, you shoot, then we
> > measure the
> > range to see the mods and if you made it, etc.

Hah! We had a much smoother setup in my old AD&D group. We always
played around a long folding table (about 6'x2.5'). We all chipped
together to buy a sheet of plexiglass of that size, then covered one
side with taped-together sheets of hex paper (lines towards the glass).
Put the paper-side down on the table and ta-da! We had a smooth surface
to use water-soluble markers on, and didn't have worry about messing the
paper up with spilled drinks, etc.

- --

Stephen B. Mann smann@cnsvax.albany.edu
SUNY Learning Network http://sln.suny.edu/sln

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 23:22:41 GMT
From: mhoram@relia.net (Curtis A Gibson)
Subject: Re: Suggestions Wanted

On Tue, 25 May 1999 13:45:42 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

> More seriously, it can be fun, and I think often worthwhile, to
>separate the players from the character/power designs. Have the
>players design the characters as characters - 100 point superagents or
>such - and then the GM drops an additional power set on them in the
>course of the first scenario. Don't necessarily force the *players*
>through the "discovery" role-playing, but keep the powers somewhat
>vague for a few scenarios, and eventually hand out fully-fleshed power
>sheets. But by that point, the players should be well into playing
>the characters instead of playing the powers.
>
>Steven J. Owens

Or alternately have the player build the powers 3 or 4 sessions into
the game, not even letting them know that they will get them till next
time.

"OK, you had your radiation accident, spend a hundred points on powers
and stats, and bring just that hundred next week and you can start
using them".

A good roleplayer can always play the ignorance of the character. I
had a character that I had build with this kind of situation. He had
two powers (in a Multipower) that 3 months after the start of play he
still hadn't discovered.

One of the reasons, _major_ reasons I play HERO is the control in
character creation. I don't like to roll dice, I don't like having a
class say what I can & cannot do, I don't like somone else building my
powers. I have no problem not building a power level, or set of powers
that the GM tells me is not in his world, but if flame powers are
allowed (for example) _I_ want to build the flame powers, not have a
GM hand me a sheet saying here are your flame powers. I just never had
any fun in situations like that. I usually don't feel a connection to
a character that I didn't completely build.

Anyway sorry for the rant.

- -Mhoram


Her ways are always with me, I wonder all the while,
but please you must forgive, I am old but still a child.
- Brian May

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:22:12 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: RE: (null)

>In the game I played there weren't any inches of anything at all really.
>Instead the GM drew on his folding table with a dry erase marker a maybe 8
>1/2" X 11" "map" (after he'd described it all in much confused detail) and
>threw a few miniatures and counters around. Then he "estimated" the
>distances for us: the character with 5" of Tunneling was able to move around
>as much as my character with 15" Flight. While I understand some players'
>desires for some simplification, why did I pay for all that flight if it
>didn't make me move more? I'm just annoyed. . . . :)

Right idea, wrong implimentation, it doesn't take THAT much time to measure
things out and it keeps the battle field on a more tactical level. To ME
that adds fun, because you have to think and examine your setting before
acting. To others it just takes time up that could be used bashing heads.

>> We use the OCV+11 -(3D6 roll)= DCV hit system so that the players dont
need
>> to know the DCV of the opponent, and all this adds up to making it more
>> something in your imagination and less on paper.
>
>I prefer this too. Probably because it what Christopher started me on. :)
>
>(More whining follows. . . )
>
>I was using this method when I played with the new group even though they
>worked it the regular way (too many years of habit). Anyway, during the
>combat I told the GM what I hit then he'd decide whether I did or not. When
>the villains attacked, he asked me what my DCV was, rolled some dice, then
>told me whether they hit or not. This may not sound as fishy as it felt to
>me. It seemed that the dice may have been just props, and the GM decided
>whether I hit or whether the villains hit just out of his head. I have no
>problem with this except why then roll the dice?

In his defense I have done that before, especially for game effect.
Sometimes to make the setting more dramatic I have the bad guys hit, or
when they hit (in Fantasy Hero) choose the location and the dice are a
formality. But not often, there isnt much point to it if you just have it
all planned out you might as well stay home and write it up.

>Of course I'm desperate and will try playing a few more times to see if I
>can get used to it. Does anyone have any suggestions for how we can come to
>a better agreement so we can all enjoy ourselves? (see there's a little
>relevance here after all.)

Run the game next time, start a game up and play, if you are curious about
house rules I have some on are on my web site
http://www.viser.net/~joelat/

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:52:22 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: (null) -Division isnt high math

Grant Enfield wrote:

> Christopher Taylor wrote:
>
> > Its been my experience that people pick up Hero fast even if
> > they dont know
> > ANY gaming system, its fairly intuitive and I have gotten
> > pretty good at
> > teaching the system and keeping the hard math away til they are ready.
>
> For all the complaints I hear about how complex HERO is, I see people
> picking up the system very quickly. This doesn't mean they can go home and
> make the character they want work well all by themselves, but a helpful GM
> solves that problem quickly. One player I know never figured out how to make
> a character (as far as I know) and had a great time playing his characters.
> And the "hard math" Christopher referred to is, I believe, Subtraction
> (Additions tricky partner). Of course I'm preaching to the rest of the choir
> here. :)
>

Shame on you, you are probably upsetting someone ;) its pretty obvious
division is the offender most game systems dont require it, anywhere.
They simplify down to addition or subtraction or chartifiy everything.

Maybe HERO should have the costs buried in tables... certainly wouldnt
simplify things for me.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:52:55 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Suggestions Wanted

At 01:20 PM 5/25/99 EDT, you wrote:
>
> I have a problem, and was hoping the folks here could help.
>
> I am going to be starting an origins game with a group of 8 players.
>For those unfamiliar with the term, and origins game is one in which the
>player creates a normal, and the GM uses some form of radiation accident to
>give the normals powers. What the powers are and how to use them are then
>discovered through the course of the game through roleplaying and luck.
>
> The trouble is that every character concept I have come up with for
>the game feels trite and overused. Maybe its just that I've been playing
>this game since it came out, and have begun to run out of character ideas.
>
> Anyway, does anyone out there have any concept suggestions? No
>aliens or gadgeteers (the radiation is "normals mutating", so no
focuses...),
>but almost anything else is welcome...
>
> Jack Butler
>
>
Well, no _independant_ focuses. One of my favorite hero writeups was a
brilliant inventor who develpoed powered armor and other gadgets
generations ahead of his time, but no one else could duplicate his work
even from blueprints and his devices only worked in his presence.


============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enimies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 21:13:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brats Incorporated <brat-inc@avalon.net>
Subject: Concentrate

I've been spending some time reading
over the concentrate disad and i have a few
questions on the wording of it. I bring it up here
because, well, why not.
!st: if a character has the 1/2 DCV, I take it, this mean that s/he
spends the time to bring the power up at !/2 DCV.
Now the way that I am reading it, it sounds if the character is
hit by any power requiring an attack roll, breaks the concentration
and the character loses whatever power was derived by the
concentration and
would have to begin prepping again to reactivate the power.

Is there anything here that I am missing?
I know that a character can pick up the constant concentration
option for
a power that has concentration.

To rephrase my question,
character has concentration(-1/4) and gets hits by an EB and
takes damage.
Does the power remain active or drop?

Thanks for any help.
And sorry about the conviluted sentences.

Visit us at http://www.avalon.net/~brat-inc/ ....
"In the words of Socrates... I drank what?" ... Real Genius

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 21:13:20 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: Suggestions Wanted

geoff heald wrote:

> At 01:20 PM 5/25/99 EDT, you wrote:
> >
> > I have a problem, and was hoping the folks here could help.
> >
> > I am going to be starting an origins game with a group of 8 players.
> >For those unfamiliar with the term, and origins game is one in which the
> >player creates a normal, and the GM uses some form of radiation accident to
> >give the normals powers. What the powers are and how to use them are then
> >discovered through the course of the game through roleplaying and luck.
> >
> > The trouble is that every character concept I have come up with for
> >the game feels trite and overused. Maybe its just that I've been playing
> >this game since it came out, and have begun to run out of character ideas.
> >
> > Anyway, does anyone out there have any concept suggestions? No
> >aliens or gadgeteers (the radiation is "normals mutating", so no
> focuses...),
> >but almost anything else is welcome...
> >
> > Jack Butler
> >
> >
> Well, no _independant_ focuses. One of my favorite hero writeups was a
> brilliant inventor who develpoed powered armor and other gadgets
> generations ahead of his time, but no one else could duplicate his work
> even from blueprints and his devices only worked in his presence.
>
> ============================
> Geoff Heald
> ============================
> Attention all enimies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
> your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
> to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.

I believe one of the X-mutants matches this character concept exactly, I believe
this
is Forge, others may know better I'm only a marginal mutant fan.

Lance

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:57:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Fantasy HERO & Questions about it...

You have to forgive my ignorance when dealing with the Heroic 75
base + 75 point Disadvantages Fantasy HERO standard campagin. I'm very
used to using the 100 point base + 150 point Disadvantage Superheroic
Campagin rules from Champions.

My first question arises:

What to do about "Special Weapon Maneuvers."

For example, in a Champions game, if I wanted a two-weapon knife
fighter, I would buy a standard HKA with OAF, and then buy Autofire, OAF
(the other knife), and Limited Power: Uses seperate Levels and attack
rolls (-1/4) to simulate the ginsu-type chopping action of the two bladed
attack.

In Fantasy HERO, this is not so... you don't pay points for
standard weapon attacks.

My question is: How do I resolve this?

I could have the characters buy the construct (as above) with OIF:
Weapon of Opportunity (as opposed to the OAF), which would get costly for
the 75 base + 75 Disadvantage standard fantasy HERO character.

or

I could charge the price for "just the other weapon" with Autofire
as the "additional" construct as opposed to the "free" HKA that you get
with normal equipment.

or

I could make it a skill, like An Eye For an Eye would with their
special Gun Fighting skills.

This is needed because of:
Advanced weapon techniques, such as fantasy Rangers often use (two
weapon style) and "special" attacks (like Archery- certain shots, such as
pinning shots [Entangle] or "Elfish Quick Fire" [Eliminate the "takes 1/2
a phase to notch arrow."

also...

Certain races have "Latent Abilities" in their blood, specifically
Demihumans like Dwarves and Elves. They can develop these abilities over
time. It would include abilities like Infravision, Innate Mana Ability,
Detecting Secret Passageways, Passing Without Trace, etc.

With elves, they have a certain ammount of "Noble blood" that lets
them do this, which also corresponds with the maxium position they can
hold within the Elven courts.

Should I:
a) Charge for "Blood" with points
b) Charge for "Noble" station
c) Charge for a "down payment" on each potential power (like
you would with a Talent).
d) A combination of any of the above.

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

- -Jason

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 23:46:42 -0400
From: "Dale A. Ward" <daleward@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestions Wanted

Greetings!

JVButlerJr@aol.com wrote:

> I have a problem, and was hoping the folks here could help.
>
> I am going to be starting an origins game with a group of 8 players.

<snip>

> Anyway, does anyone out there have any concept suggestions? No
> aliens or gadgeteers (the radiation is "normals mutating", so no focuses...),
> but almost anything else is welcome...

I wouldn't be so quick to put down gadgeteers. One of the most successful pulp heroes
in history (and my personal favorite) - Doc Savage - was a gadgeteer. Of course, he was a
LOT more, too.
Furthermore, if you accept the hypothesis proposed by Philip Jose Farmer (qv. "Doc
Savage - His Apocalyptic Life"), Doc was the end product of a long line of mutations begun
in the 16th century when a radioactive meteor struck the Earth near a carriage
transporting several people along an English country road. The people affected included
not only the passengers, but the driver and footmen as well - as I recall, there were a
total of 8 in the carriage. Not an impressive gene pool, I realize... but, any series of
events that could result in Clark Savage, Jr. is okay by me.
Anyway, this is a prime example of a gadgeteer resulting from a series of mutations.

Later!

Dale A. Ward

***************************************
* There are two rules for *
* ultimate success in life. *
* 1) Never tell everything you know. *
***************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 00:20:59 -0400
From: "Dale A. Ward" <daleward@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Concentrate

Greetings!

Brats Incorporated wrote:

> I've been spending some time reading over the concentrate disad and i have a few
> questions on the wording of it. I bring it up here because, well, why not. !st: if a
> character has the 1/2 DCV, I take it, this mean that s/he spends the time to bring the
> power up at !/2 DCV. Now the way that I am reading it, it sounds if the character is hit
> by any power requiring an attack roll, breaks the concentration and the character loses
> whatever power was derived by the concentration and would have to begin prepping again
> to reactivate the power.
>
> Is there anything here that I am missing?
> I know that a character can pick up the constant concentration option for a
> power that has concentration.
>
> To rephrase my question, character has concentration(-1/4) and gets hits by an
> EB and takes damage. Does the power remain active or drop?

When something like this comes up, I always take the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)
approach. If all it says is 1/2 DCV, then that's the only effect it has... i.e. the power
in question remains active. If you want the power to drop or fail to activate, I believe
that's an additional disad.

<Flip Side> On the other hand, if the character gets knocked unconscious by that EB, s/he
will probably be unable to actively use the power in question... so, it might as well not
have been activated.

Later!

Dale A. Ward

************************************************
* Everyone thinks I'm psychotic... *
* except for my friends deep inside the earth. *
************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 03:04:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Fantasy HERO & AD&D

Does anyone know of any links to sites that deal with Fantasy
HERO, or HERO conversions of AD&D?

I'm specificly looking for AD&D spells converted to HERO, and AD&D
Character Class Abilities converted to HERO.

- -Jason

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:42:22 -0700
From: Rick Holding <rholding@actonline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Concentrate

Dale A. Ward wrote:
>
> Greetings!
>
> Brats Incorporated wrote:
>
> > I've been spending some time reading over the concentrate disad and i have a few
> > questions on the wording of it. I bring it up here because, well, why not. !st: if a
> > character has the 1/2 DCV, I take it, this mean that s/he spends the time to bring the
> > power up at !/2 DCV. Now the way that I am reading it, it sounds if the character is hit
> > by any power requiring an attack roll, breaks the concentration and the character loses
> > whatever power was derived by the concentration and would have to begin prepping again
> > to reactivate the power.
> >
> > Is there anything here that I am missing?
> > I know that a character can pick up the constant concentration option for a
> > power that has concentration.
> >
> > To rephrase my question, character has concentration(-1/4) and gets hits by an
> > EB and takes damage. Does the power remain active or drop?
>
> When something like this comes up, I always take the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)
> approach. If all it says is 1/2 DCV, then that's the only effect it has... i.e. the power
> in question remains active. If you want the power to drop or fail to activate, I believe
> that's an additional disad.

As far as it goes, if all it takes is the concentration to turn on then
everything is fine. The -1/4 limitation for 1/2 DCV is in play only
while the power is being turned on. As long as s/he doesn't get hit
during this time, the power will remain active. For double the
limitation, concentration is in effect for the entire time the power is
active and hence if s/he gets hit, the power goes off. Although I would
probarly rule that unless the attack does some stun or knockback
movement, concentration was not broken (the attack was so puny as to be
ignored.)

> <Flip Side> On the other hand, if the character gets knocked unconscious by that EB, s/he
> will probably be unable to actively use the power in question... so, it might as well not
> have been activated.

That applies anyway as any power that is not persistant goes off at the
end of the segment of stunning and/or knockout.
- --
Rick Holding

If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 05:20:51 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
From: Kevin Eav <ukyou@maison-otaku.net>
Subject: Re: Final Fantasy Hero

On Mon, 24 May 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:

> Mine was actually closer to 6 than it was to any of the others (since I
> liked 6 better than 7, and haven't yet played the earlier games),
> especially in the magic system. I also like characters that have built-in
> special abilities rather than having to have Materia - I didn't feel a lot
> of differentiation in the character's abilities in FF7.

Ah, very true. :) The magic system, as done for Hero, wouldn't be -all-
that bad though--it'd just be Focus-based entirely. I'm not even sure how
to write up powers that you have to have the Focus.. just to learn.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 05:43:38 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Fw: OT: and CrossPosted

Okay, enough folks said it was a good idea, so I went ahead and made
it. "I saw Phantom Menace!" is now an official mailing list at
ispm@onelist.com. To sub, you just need to go to www.onelist.com,
register, and subscribe. The list is open and unmoderated. (Though I
will warn ya: anyone flaming will be deleted.)
If you have problems subscribing, just e-mail me off-list. And have
fun!
- --
- -Bruinhilda-
(http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/8691/)

============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 06:41:11 EDT
From: SteveL1979@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fantasy HERO & AD&D

In a message dated 5/26/99 3:05:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ravanos@NJCU.edu
writes:

<< Does anyone know of any links to sites that deal with Fantasy
HERO, or HERO conversions of AD&D?

I'm specificly looking for AD&D spells converted to HERO, and AD&D
Character Class Abilities converted to HERO.>>

I believe the Hero Games website has a link to a site containing a
large number of AD&D spells translated to HERO System terms. I haven't
looked in a while, though, so I'm not sure if it's there.

Steve Long

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:31:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy HERO & Questions about it...

On Tue, 25 May 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> My first question arises:
>
> What to do about "Special Weapon Maneuvers."
>
> For example, in a Champions game, if I wanted a two-weapon knife
> fighter, I would buy a standard HKA with OAF, and then buy Autofire, OAF
<snip>
> In Fantasy HERO, this is not so... you don't pay points for
> standard weapon attacks.
>
> My question is: How do I resolve this?

For the knives...well, based on talking with people that actually use
multiple weapons in (simulated) combat, you really don't usually attack
with both weapons at the same time - you either use one to 'set up' the
other or keep one on defense while one is on offense. Based on that, I'd
allow players to purchase a few extra HtH levels with the limitation 'only
if using two weapons'. That way that can be more defensive (+DCV) or
feint & attack (+OCV).

(Ninja HERO suggests a +1 DCV for carrying an off-hand weapon. My rule
would replace it.)

> This is needed because of:
> Advanced weapon techniques, such as fantasy Rangers often use (two
> weapon style) and "special" attacks (like Archery- certain shots, such as
> pinning shots [Entangle] or "Elfish Quick Fire" [Eliminate the "takes 1/2
> a phase to notch arrow."

I'd make the Quick Fire a skill/Talent - wouldn't Fast Draw work for that?
The 'pinning shot' - eh. I'd honestly call it a combination of SFX and a
really good to-hit roll, because you could do it with /any/ pointy weapon:
knife (thrown or hand-held), sword, etc.

> With elves, they have a certain ammount of "Noble blood" that lets
> them do this, which also corresponds with the maxium position they can
> hold within the Elven courts.
>
> Should I:
> a) Charge for "Blood" with points

Each level of Blood gives them potential to get stuff, but no actual
benefits? If you do charge for it, I'd make the charge minor.

> b) Charge for "Noble" station

Definitely. This Perk would be valued based on how much the station would
have an effect on the campaign...obviously it's worth more in an all-elf
political game.

> c) Charge for a "down payment" on each potential power (like
> you would with a Talent).

I wouldn't do this, especially if you're paying for the Perk: Blood (that
is the 'down payment'.

Another option is to make sure that each character type or race has things
that they can do that no other type/race can. That way, the humans whon't
feel shafted because the elves get to learn cool powers, because they'll
be saying, "Look what /I/ can do!"

J

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:35:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: Re: Suggestions Wanted

All this talk of origin games has gotten me thinking. I haven't been
reading all the posts, so someone else may have mentioned it. has anyone
played on the fly? I was thinking giving the players the hundred points
and letting them spend them as they are needed or wanted. This way
instead of experimenting to learn the powers they have, the players
choose the powers they need. Need to move faster? buy running or flight.
Getting beat up? buy some defence or stun. Already knocked out? Buy some
recovery. Need to save someone from drowning? Buy Life Support Usable on
Others. It will slow down play for awhile while players do fast math,
but it sounds like fun. Not a game I'd run, but one I'd play

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:48:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Final Fantasy Hero

On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Kevin Eav wrote:
> On Mon, 24 May 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>
> > Mine was actually closer to 6 than it was to any of the others (since I
> > liked 6 better than 7, and haven't yet played the earlier games),
> > especially in the magic system. I also like characters that have built-in
> > special abilities rather than having to have Materia - I didn't feel a lot
> > of differentiation in the character's abilities in FF7.
>
> Ah, very true. :) The magic system, as done for Hero, wouldn't be -all-
> that bad though--it'd just be Focus-based entirely. I'm not even sure how
> to write up powers that you have to have the Focus.. just to learn.

The magic system for 7 is actually pretty easy. Materia are Independent
OAFs, and /they're/ the ones that buy the spells, not the characters
(since the spells go to the other person when the Materia is swapped). All
the spells would have Gestures and Incantations, of course, and they'd
operate from an END Reserve that recovers only while asleep.

As for the Magicite crystals from 6...I'd just say that needing a crystal
to learn a spell is a special effect. Normally you'd need to find a
teacher to learn a spell (or any other skill) - the Magicite is that
teacher.

J

Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:43:37 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy HERO & Questions about it...

> You have to forgive my ignorance when dealing with the Heroic 75
>base + 75 point Disadvantages Fantasy HERO standard campagin. I'm very
>used to using the 100 point base + 150 point Disadvantage Superheroic
>Campagin rules from Champions.

No problem...try writing up 30 or so NPCs, it helps get you used to the
differences (at least, it worked for me :).

> For example, in a Champions game, if I wanted a two-weapon knife
>fighter, I would buy a standard HKA with OAF, and then buy Autofire, OAF
>(the other knife), and Limited Power: Uses seperate Levels and attack
>rolls (-1/4) to simulate the ginsu-type chopping action of the two bladed
>attack.

I created a couple maneuvers for two-weapon fighters, which I don't have
written up, but which basically were:

1) Block: block with a bonus, since you are using two weapons
2) Normal: +1 DCV or something for having the 2nd weapon in hand
3) Attack: Attack with both, DCV penalty, small OCV penalty, -5 STR for
each weapon.

These maneuvers were available to all characters, but the character needed
Weapon Familiarity: two weapon fighting to avoid a -3 OCV penalty.

I would also note that the GM can allow a fighter to pay points for a
particularly spiffy maneuver, it's just usually not worth the cost.

> Advanced weapon techniques, such as fantasy Rangers often use (two
>weapon style) and "special" attacks (like Archery- certain shots, such as
>pinning shots [Entangle] or "Elfish Quick Fire" [Eliminate the "takes 1/2
>a phase to notch arrow."

I would allow both of these as house rules: the pinning shot is a called
shot with high OCV penalty; and Elfish Quick Fire could be a Fast-Draw like
skill.

Actually, I allow archers to pull arrow, nock, and fire as a 1/2 Phase with
a Fast Draw roll already...

> Certain races have "Latent Abilities" in their blood, specifically
>Demihumans like Dwarves and Elves. They can develop these abilities over
>time. It would include abilities like Infravision, Innate Mana Ability,
>Detecting Secret Passageways, Passing Without Trace, etc.

I would charge points for all of these, except I'm not sure what you mean
by Innate Mana Ability. I might not charge for the ability to have mana,
but I would certain charge for the END Reserve (or whatever) that
represents the mana. If the mana reserve is really really handy, I might
require a Perk: Innate Mana Ability.

So, a starting character might not have these, but might spend experience
to develop them.

I would also require a Perk for having Noble blood, which could be bought
up to Perk: Elvish Noble.

Geoff Speare

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:05:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Fantasy HERO & Questions about it...

On Wed, 26 May 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
> On Tue, 25 May 1999, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> > What to do about "Special Weapon Maneuvers."
> > My question is: How do I resolve this?
> For the knives...well, based on talking with people that actually use
> multiple weapons in (simulated) combat, you really don't usually attack
> with both weapons at the same time - you either use one to 'set up' the
> other or keep one on defense while one is on offense. Based on that, I'd
> allow players to purchase a few extra HtH levels with the limitation 'only
> if using two weapons'. That way that can be more defensive (+DCV) or
> feint & attack (+OCV).
> (Ninja HERO suggests a +1 DCV for carrying an off-hand weapon. My rule
> would replace it.)
Granted, certain styles alternate weapon use, certain styles use
secondary weapons like the Mein Gauche for blocking, and certain styles
use weapons in tandem. While Ambidexterity works for alternating weapons,
Extra SPD bought specifically for using the "off hand" weapon for flurries
of secondary attacks, or Autofire, is the only known existing mechanic for
simulating the "multiple strike" maneuver I was initally talking about.
Autofire is not as easy to cobble as OCV/DCV levels or SPD, since it's
based off the Base Cost of HKA.
...so, do I have them spend the points for _just_ the ammount of
Autofire like a floating Advantage (they get the HKA free with the weapon
in Heroic games)-- or do I have them pay for the entire "power." Even
then, is it purchased OIF or OAF?
I'm all most positive my players will want to use even more
esoteric fighting styles that require me to cobble out new skills or
constructs... AP, Penetrating, etc.

> > This is needed because of:
> > Advanced weapon techniques, such as fantasy Rangers often use (two
> > weapon style) and "special" attacks (like Archery- certain shots, such as
> > pinning shots [Entangle] or "Elfish Quick Fire" [Eliminate the "takes 1/2
> > a phase to notch arrow."
> I'd make the Quick Fire a skill/Talent - wouldn't Fast Draw work for that?
> The 'pinning shot' - eh. I'd honestly call it a combination of SFX and a
> really good to-hit roll, because you could do it with /any/ pointy weapon:
> knife (thrown or hand-held), sword, etc.

Bows have a Limitation where they take a 1/2 phase to notch an
arrow. I don't think Fast Draw itself would circumvent this. Fast Draw
would allow a nocked arrow to be used "faster", however.

> Another option is to make sure that each character type or race has things
> that they can do that no other type/race can. That way, the humans whon't
> feel shafted because the elves get to learn cool powers, because they'll
> be saying, "Look what /I/ can do!"

Humans are the most favored race by one of the Gods. They have
the most expansive (and potentially destructive and gluttonous)
civilizations ever. They have the most land, and are expanding and
developing quicker than any of the races. They never limit themselves to
any set geographic location. They are adaptable and hearty people. Their
society lacks set rules and boundries, and this lack of respect for each
other, the gods, the planet, and demihumans has made them flourish (by
stepping on the backs of others).
This is the age of Man. Man was the winner after the Great War.
Humanity is a virus. Soon they will rule the world, and smite all
others beneath their heels.

Pretty cool. :)

------------------------------

End of champ-l-digest V1 #358
*****************************


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