Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 388

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 1:58 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #388


champ-l-digest Friday, June 11 1999 Volume 01 : Number 388



In this issue:

Re: What's My Line? (was The Mummy)
Re: Caidin Characters
Re: Upcoming from Surbrook (was The Mummy)
Re: Upcoming from Surbrook (was The Mummy)
Re: Caidin Characters
Cardboard Heroes
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Instant Change
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Swapping stats
RE: Steve Austin
Re: Automata
New XXX Hero Books in the offing?
Re: Automata
Re: Swapping stats
Re: What's My Line? (was The Mummy)
Re: Upcoming from Surbrook (was The Mummy)
Re: Automata
Re: Upcoming from Surbrook (was The Mummy)
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Automata
Re: Automata
Re: Automata
Re: New XXX Hero Books in the offing?
Re: New XXX Hero Books in the offing?
Re: Automata
Re: New XXX Hero Books in the offing?
Re: Automata
Re: Automata
Re: Automata
Re: New XXX Hero Books in the offing?
Re: HERO site back up?
Re: Automata
Re: The Mummy
Re: Rod to Snake/Sticks to Snakes
Re: Can a base be a scientist?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:24:48 EDT
From: Akirazeta@aol.com
Subject: Re: What's My Line? (was The Mummy)

In a message dated 6/10/99 7:15:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
haerandir@hotmail.com writes:

<< > "It is... it is........ it is green."

That's easy! It's the sound of Lt. Data trying to identify an apparently
unidentifiable drink for the benefit of Montgomery Scott. >>

Man, i thought it was from the Episode of Star trek The original series where
scotty has to get one of the super soldiers drunk enough to pass out, and he
has gone through all his "stach" and is left with one bottle. When the
soldier asks what it is, he says" Its, its, its green."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:37:40 GMT
From: samael@clark.net (Acid Rainbow)
Subject: Re: Caidin Characters

On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:00:09 -0700, jayphailey@juno.com sent these =
symbols
into the net:

>>Another related novel by Caidin (I think it may have been The God
>Machine, but
>>I'm not sure) featured a cyborg whale.
>>
>>-=3D>John Desmarais
>
>What would be the point of a Cyborg whale?
>
I don't remember a cyborg whale in anything by Martin Caidin, but I
*do* remember one as the title character in 'The Godwhale' by TJ Bass.
There was also a character who (for reasons unknown) had been trained,
almost from birth to pilot the thing. At the climax of the story, the =
pilot
character merges (plugs in?) with(to) the Godwhale and is able to trounce
several more advanced models due to his superior skills.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:48:50 GMT
From: samael@clark.net (Acid Rainbow)
Subject: Re: Upcoming from Surbrook (was The Mummy)

On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:30:45 -0700, Bob Greenwade =
<bob.greenwade@klock.com>
sent these symbols into the net:

>At 09:50 AM 6/10/1999 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>>
>>> (And FWIW cheesy sound effects are SFX.)
>>
>>Yah. Although if the power isn't normally noticable you could probably
>>buy the Visible limitation on it...
>
> Yeah, you're right. It would be Visible on his Telescopic Vision. =
;-]
Except the Caidin version didn't *have* telescopic vision.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:49:04 GMT
From: samael@clark.net (Acid Rainbow)
Subject: Re: Upcoming from Surbrook (was The Mummy)

On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:52:20 -0700 (PDT), John Desmarais
<johndesmarais@yahoo.com> sent these symbols into the net:

>--- Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> wrote:
>> The novel was entitled "Cyborg" and was written by Martin Caidin in =
1972.
>> I think it is the origin of the word 'cyborg' and possibly of the term=
=20
>> 'bionics' (although I could be wrong). Basically, he's the granddaddy=
of
>> Cyborg (DC Comics), Kiddy Phenil (Silent Mobius), HalfJack =
(Champions),
>> Deathloc (Marvel), Battle Angel (Gunm) and a host of other characters.
>
>So, are you just gonna do te hero from that book, or are you gonna =
write-up the
>Godwhale as well?
The God-Whale(sp?) was a novel by TJ Bass, and although the people at
West End games didn't recognize the author or his other book 'Half-past
Human' the books may well have inspired the Paranoia game. TJ Bass's =
books
had it all, the cloning, the drugs, the mad computer and the secret
societies... Except they were *serious*.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:58:57 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Caidin Characters

At 11:37 PM 6/10/1999 GMT, Acid Rainbow wrote:
> I don't remember a cyborg whale in anything by Martin Caidin, but I
>*do* remember one as the title character in 'The Godwhale' by TJ Bass.

Perhaps 'Cachalot' by Alan Dean Foster?

Damon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:20:13 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Cardboard Heroes

I just found Steve Jackson Games' "Cardboard Heroes" for fantasy in
my game store, and I want to recommend it highly to the list.
436 standup cardboard fantasy miniatures and an additional 432
"assorted slimes, bugs, treasures and dropped weapons".

The mixture is very nice and includes everything from slimes and
giant weasels, to elementals and vampires, to lots and lots of humans,
orcs, goblins and undead.

All for under $20. Thought you'd like to know.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jun 1999 21:04:30 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Thu, 10 Jun 1999
| Well, I've never considered it to be particularly miraculous or odd when
| a person's weapon affects him- or herself.

Yes or no: do you consider it a normal occourance for a detective to shoot
herself as a means of solving a case?
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE3YGCegl+vIlSVSNkRAu33AKCkF1oasApF2/V8PatN6Q442rrqwgCfQNwy
2DtOLITXdcLY9g9W/SZHmqA=
=vJWi
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:11:33 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Instant Change

At 10:21 AM 6/10/99 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 08:32 AM 6/10/1999 -0700, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>>
>>That is why I put a number on the active points you can give: Transform can
>>only grant active points totalling the maximum that the dice can roll (so
>>if it is a 12D6 transform, you can give 60 AP total to the target). This
>>makes cumulative transforms much much more limitation and keeps people from
>>doing just what you said above. Nobody ever TRIED It in a game I ran, I
>>just didn't like them being able to.
>
> I use the same rule, except that the amount I use for points granted is
>the amount actually rolled on the dice.
> And the maximum on 12d6, BTW, is 72. :-]

grumble grumble mutter ... new math...

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:21:34 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
To: Dr. Nuncheon <jeffj@io.com>
Cc: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net&> Champions
<champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 1999 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: Swapping stats


> On Thu, 10 Jun 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
> > Fine. "If you can normally attack yourself, why is Transfer an
exception?"
>
> Using the same logic of:
> You may not use Absorbtion with your own attack power.

Is this something you made up or something that is actually a rule? I
haven't ever noticed it.

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:33:51 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 1999 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Swapping stats

> As I previously pointed out, being within the area of effect of a power is
> not the same as being attacked with that power. Being affected by the AoE
> is a function of the AoE advantage, not the power that is being
advantaged.

So you are saying that Area Effect allows a power to affect a character that
it couldn't normally affect?

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:37:34 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: RE: Steve Austin

>> << "...a man barely alive. We can rebuild him..." >>
>>
>> I assume that youve adjusted his price tag for inflation. That is, if you
>> were actuially talking about Steve Austin
>
>Lesse... 6 billion dollars sound about right?

I was thinking more along the lines of 60 Billion, we are talking
government contractors, secrecy, new tech, biology, new labs, etc...
inflation is one thing, but bureaucracy has increased also.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:39:57 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Automata

>>>Followup questions: Do 3 levels of Density Increase for an automaton
give +3
>>>PD/ED or +1 PD/ED? How much does Damage Resistance for 6 PD/ED cost: 6, or
>>>18?
>>
>>for what it's worth I ignore that 3x rule. You are a fool not to buy
>>normal PD/ED in a superhero campaign even if you DONT take STN because the
>>energy blasts will rip you to shreds if you dont.
>
>Ignoring the 3x rule is extremely unbalancing, since it makes any entity
>which doesn't take Stun remarkably easy to make effectively invulnerable at
>a very low point cost. It's one of the current problems with letting people
>build power-suits as vehicles, in fact.

I didn't find it so when people played. First off, being invulnerable to
physical assault is NOT that bad (remember he can't be hurt by his FRIENDS
either...) tie him up, toss him out of the battle, flash him, etc etc...
suddenly he can't do anything. He makes a dandy weapon for the brick to
use (oooh my club doesn't break!). Being invulnerable or nearly so is a
standard comic book thing, I had no problem with him being hard to hurt.
Plus it was nice to be able to bust out the really big KAs and see arms
come off and stuff hee hee.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:52:18 -0700
From: Bob Simpson <simpson@netcom.com>
Subject: New XXX Hero Books in the offing?

I recently visited the Hero Games site <http://herogames.com> and discovered their new adult sourcebooks. Apparently the first explores the superpowered world of "Pantyhose, pantyhose, and more pantyhose! Stockings, garters, thigh-highs, knee socks, tights, high heels..."

I think this will be a much more exciting offering than the usual "guys in tights" stuff found at <http://www.herogames.com>

- -- Bob "I wonder how many points she had to pay for THAT" Simpson

>>>>
"Come, fellow Vindicators! We must stop Doctor Destroyer's
latest plot, which is in conflict with our cultural paradigm, as
interpreted by the Vindicators' microculture and within each of
our own ideocultural isolates!"
<<<<

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:51:57 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Automata

At 06:39 PM 6/10/1999 -0700, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>
>I didn't find it so when people played. First off, being invulnerable to
>physical assault is NOT that bad (remember he can't be hurt by his FRIENDS
>either...) tie him up, toss him out of the battle, flash him, etc etc...
>suddenly he can't do anything. He makes a dandy weapon for the brick to
>use (oooh my club doesn't break!). Being invulnerable or nearly so is a
>standard comic book thing, I had no problem with him being hard to hurt.
>Plus it was nice to be able to bust out the really big KAs and see arms
>come off and stuff hee hee.

I've had one character in my games who was completely invulnerable; I've
mentioned Mr Lucky, my examle for 100% Damage Reduction before. However,
that was all that the character was capable of. I don't think I'd like a
truly (or even nigh) invulnerable character in my game who also had a means
of attack; it'd be just too unbalancing.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:11:58 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats

At 09:04 PM 6/10/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Thu, 10 Jun 1999
>| Well, I've never considered it to be particularly miraculous or odd when
>| a person's weapon affects him- or herself.
>
>Yes or no: do you consider it a normal occourance for a detective to shoot
>herself as a means of solving a case?

A normal physical occurrance, yes. I'd be amazed if a detective (or
anyone else for that matter) was somehow immune to her own weapon.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:04:20 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: What's My Line? (was The Mummy)

At 05:12 PM 6/10/1999 -0500, Logan Darklighter wrote:
>>
>> For the bonus prize, here's a tricky one:
>>
>> "It is... it is........ it is green."
>
>
>Data, from ST: TNG, the response is from Scotty who says:
>
>"That's good enough for me laddy!"

And Logan gets the prize for being the first to notice that the line is,
"It is green," not, "It's green." (The latter was Scott's line.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:03:17 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Upcoming from Surbrook (was The Mummy)

At 11:48 PM 6/10/1999 GMT, Acid Rainbow wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:30:45 -0700, Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
>sent these symbols into the net:
>
>>At 09:50 AM 6/10/1999 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>>>
>>>> (And FWIW cheesy sound effects are SFX.)
>>>
>>>Yah. Although if the power isn't normally noticable you could probably
>>>buy the Visible limitation on it...
>>
>> Yeah, you're right. It would be Visible on his Telescopic Vision. ;-]
> Except the Caidin version didn't *have* telescopic vision.

Well, the context of the cheesy sound effects is the TV version, so it's
OK.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:28:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Automata

>>>>Followup questions: Do 3 levels of Density Increase for an automaton
>give +3
>>>>PD/ED or +1 PD/ED? How much does Damage Resistance for 6 PD/ED cost: 6, or
>>>>18?
>>>
>>>for what it's worth I ignore that 3x rule. You are a fool not to buy
>>>normal PD/ED in a superhero campaign even if you DONT take STN because the
>>>energy blasts will rip you to shreds if you dont.
>>
>>Ignoring the 3x rule is extremely unbalancing, since it makes any entity
>>which doesn't take Stun remarkably easy to make effectively invulnerable at
>>a very low point cost. It's one of the current problems with letting people
>>build power-suits as vehicles, in fact.
>
>I didn't find it so when people played. First off, being invulnerable to
>physical assault is NOT that bad (remember he can't be hurt by his FRIENDS
>either...) tie him up, toss him out of the battle, flash him, etc etc...

Fine. He's effectively invulnerable to normal and killing damage. I don't
consider that a big improvement, since that's the body of attacks the
majority of attackers have.

>suddenly he can't do anything. He makes a dandy weapon for the brick to
>use (oooh my club doesn't break!). Being invulnerable or nearly so is a
>standard comic book thing, I had no problem with him being hard to hurt.
>Plus it was nice to be able to bust out the really big KAs and see arms
>come off and stuff hee hee.

Your choice, but I stand by my opinion it's unbalanced. it gives effective
immunity to orthodox weaponry at far too low a price, among other things.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:03:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: "John Desmarais" <john.desmarais@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Upcoming from Surbrook (was The Mummy)

On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:49:04 GMT, Acid Rainbow wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:52:20 -0700 (PDT), John Desmarais
><johndesmarais@yahoo.com> sent these symbols into the net:
>
>>--- Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> wrote:
>>> The novel was entitled "Cyborg" and was written by Martin Caidin in 1972.
>>> I think it is the origin of the word 'cyborg' and possibly of the term
>>> 'bionics' (although I could be wrong). Basically, he's the granddaddy of
>>> Cyborg (DC Comics), Kiddy Phenil (Silent Mobius), HalfJack (Champions),
>>> Deathloc (Marvel), Battle Angel (Gunm) and a host of other characters.
>>
>>So, are you just gonna do te hero from that book, or are you gonna write-up the
>>Godwhale as well?
> The God-Whale(sp?) was a novel by TJ Bass, and although the people at
>West End games didn't recognize the author or his other book 'Half-past
>Human' the books may well have inspired the Paranoia game. TJ Bass's books
>had it all, the cloning, the drugs, the mad computer and the secret
>societies... Except they were *serious*.

By gum, you're right... ...now, why did I think that was Caidin? Oh well....

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:59:40 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats

>| Well, I've never considered it to be particularly miraculous or odd when
>| a person's weapon affects him- or herself.
>
>Yes or no: do you consider it a normal occourance for a detective to shoot
>herself as a means of solving a case?

That is what we call in logic a RED HERRING. Whether or not someone would
typically do so is not the issue, it is whether they are capable of it and
more importantly if it is in the rules to be able to do so. Remember, your
flash affects YOU if its reflected somehow, personal immunity demands and
assumes that your powers WILL affect you.

With that, and the fact that the only power that is specifically listed to
not be usable on one's self is Transformation (even Absorb doesn't say to
my knowlege) the conclusion I think is reasonable and that I will use is this:

Any power can be targetted against one's self with GM approval and if not
otherwise prohibited by the rules.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:03:27 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Automata

>>>>for what it's worth I ignore that 3x rule. You are a fool not to buy
>>>>normal PD/ED in a superhero campaign even if you DONT take STN because the
>>>>energy blasts will rip you to shreds if you dont.
>>>
>>>Ignoring the 3x rule is extremely unbalancing, since it makes any entity
>>>which doesn't take Stun remarkably easy to make effectively invulnerable at
>>>a very low point cost. It's one of the current problems with letting
people
>>>build power-suits as vehicles, in fact.
>>
>>I didn't find it so when people played. First off, being invulnerable to
>>physical assault is NOT that bad (remember he can't be hurt by his FRIENDS
>>either...) tie him up, toss him out of the battle, flash him, etc etc...
>
>Fine. He's effectively invulnerable to normal and killing damage. I don't
>consider that a big improvement, since that's the body of attacks the
>majority of attackers have.
>
>>suddenly he can't do anything. He makes a dandy weapon for the brick to
>>use (oooh my club doesn't break!). Being invulnerable or nearly so is a
>>standard comic book thing, I had no problem with him being hard to hurt.
>>Plus it was nice to be able to bust out the really big KAs and see arms
>>come off and stuff hee hee.
>
>Your choice, but I stand by my opinion it's unbalanced. it gives effective
>immunity to orthodox weaponry at far too low a price, among other things.

I know what you are saying, I just found that since the character paid 105
points just to have his character concept (LS, does not bleed, etc) he
didn't have a lot of other options to be able to do much else. He was not
more nor less effective than anyone else in the game, sometimes he was
useless, sometimes he was pretty central.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:45:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Automata

>I know what you are saying, I just found that since the character paid 105
>points just to have his character concept (LS, does not bleed, etc) he
>didn't have a lot of other options to be able to do much else. He was not
>more nor less effective than anyone else in the game, sometimes he was
>useless, sometimes he was pretty central.

The problem is, among other things, that the automaton power is a buy-in; it
costs you a large chunk of points once, but it does not ever cost you again,
so as time goes by this portion of points is less and less significant. If
nothing else, I don't doubt for a moment that even with that investment, our
local high quality power gamer could make a quite viable starting character
using foci for his other powers...and it'd get just more and more godawful
as time went on.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:21:44 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Automata

James Jandebeur wrote:

> > for what it's worth I ignore that 3x rule. You are a fool not to buy
> > normal PD/ED in a superhero campaign even if you DONT take STN because the
> > energy blasts will rip you to shreds if you dont.
>
> Well, yes, you will be ripped to shreds if you don't have some PD and ED,
> but you don't need nearly as much: without taking STUN a 12 defense will, on
> average, completely ignore a 12d6 EB. A 14 Resistant defense will ignore the
> equivalent 4d6 Killing Attack. I always assumed that was why they increased
> the cost of defense for Automata.
>
> JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
> http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html

I thought is was for automata and vehicles, PD/ED are equivelent to Armor.
so they made the price equivelent.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:26:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "John Desmarais" <john.desmarais@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: New XXX Hero Books in the offing?

On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:52:18 -0700, Bob Simpson wrote:

>I recently visited the Hero Games site <http://herogames.com> and discovered their
>new adult sourcebooks. Apparently the first explores the superpowered world of
>"Pantyhose, pantyhose, and more pantyhose! Stockings, garters, thigh-highs, knee
>socks, tights, high heels..."
>
>I think this will be a much more exciting offering than the usual "guys in tights" stuff
>found at <http://www.herogames.com>

Well, that's interesting.

On the other hand, the REAL Herogames site is back up and looks pretty sharp.

- -=>John Desmarais

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:28:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: "John Desmarais" <john.desmarais@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: New XXX Hero Books in the offing?

On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:26:49 -0400 (EDT), John Desmarais wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:52:18 -0700, Bob Simpson wrote:
>
>>I recently visited the Hero Games site <http://herogames.com> and discovered their
>>new adult sourcebooks. Apparently the first explores the superpowered world of
>>"Pantyhose, pantyhose, and more pantyhose! Stockings, garters, thigh-highs, knee
>>socks, tights, high heels..."
>>
>>I think this will be a much more exciting offering than the usual "guys in tights" stuff
>>found at <http://www.herogames.com>
>
>Well, that's interesting.
>
>On the other hand, the REAL Herogames site is back up and looks pretty sharp.

Now if they'd just get some content...

- -=>John Desmarais

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:59:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Automata

>
>
>James Jandebeur wrote:
>
>> > for what it's worth I ignore that 3x rule. You are a fool not to buy
>> > normal PD/ED in a superhero campaign even if you DONT take STN because the
>> > energy blasts will rip you to shreds if you dont.
>>
>> Well, yes, you will be ripped to shreds if you don't have some PD and ED,
>> but you don't need nearly as much: without taking STUN a 12 defense will, on
>> average, completely ignore a 12d6 EB. A 14 Resistant defense will ignore the
>> equivalent 4d6 Killing Attack. I always assumed that was why they increased
>> the cost of defense for Automata.
>>
>> JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
>> http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
>
>I thought is was for automata and vehicles, PD/ED are equivelent to Armor.
>so they made the price equivelent.

That's true with vehicles, but not with Automatons. Automaton defenses cost
three times as much because all they care about are Body, and if you're
going to effect them at all with ordinary damage, Body is what you need to
do to them. You'll note you take approximately 3x the Stun from a normal
attack as Body.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:26:09 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: New XXX Hero Books in the offing?

John Desmarais wrote:
>
> On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:26:49 -0400 (EDT), John Desmarais wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:52:18 -0700, Bob Simpson wrote:
> >
> >>I recently visited the Hero Games site <http://herogames.com> and
> >>discovered their new adult sourcebooks. Apparently the first explores
> >>the superpowered world of "Pantyhose, pantyhose, and more pantyhose!
> >>Stockings, garters, thigh-highs, knee socks, tights, high heels..."

Well, superheroes wear tights and maybe this is a resource for getting
your hero dressed up.

> >>
> >>I think this will be a much more exciting offering than the usual
> >>"guys in tights" stuff found at <http://www.herogames.com>
> >
> >Well, that's interesting.

No really I was headed for the herogames site and mistyped...

> >On the other hand, the REAL Herogames site is back up and looks pretty sharp.
>
> Now if they'd just get some content...

I noticed the resources, news, and help wanted pages had some actual content.

- -Mark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:38:52 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Automata

>>I know what you are saying, I just found that since the character paid 105
>>points just to have his character concept (LS, does not bleed, etc) he
>>didn't have a lot of other options to be able to do much else. He was not
>>more nor less effective than anyone else in the game, sometimes he was
>>useless, sometimes he was pretty central.
>
>The problem is, among other things, that the automaton power is a buy-in; it
>costs you a large chunk of points once, but it does not ever cost you again,
>so as time goes by this portion of points is less and less significant. If

I guess I don't see how this is any less true for other powers, like flight?

>nothing else, I don't doubt for a moment that even with that investment, our
>local high quality power gamer could make a quite viable starting character
>using foci for his other powers...and it'd get just more and more godawful
>as time went on.

Without a doubt, I hardly ever run into the kinds of trouble I hear people
listing with their powers, because we dont have powergamers or people of
that ilk in our gaming group. People make characters based on their
concept, often taking more disads than they get points for and buying
things that really aren't useful just for the flavor.

But I would have to say here that noting a powergamer would misuse
something is hardly a statment against the device, that is true about
practically any power or rule.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:24:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Automata

>>>I know what you are saying, I just found that since the character paid 105
>>>points just to have his character concept (LS, does not bleed, etc) he
>>>didn't have a lot of other options to be able to do much else. He was not
>>>more nor less effective than anyone else in the game, sometimes he was
>>>useless, sometimes he was pretty central.
>>
>>The problem is, among other things, that the automaton power is a buy-in; it
>>costs you a large chunk of points once, but it does not ever cost you again,
>>so as time goes by this portion of points is less and less significant. If
>
>I guess I don't see how this is any less true for other powers, like flight?

Because generally, over time, you're likely to want more and more flight.
Automaton is self-contained; what it does it either does or it doesn't. And
it has a dramatic effect on the way other abilities work. The only other
power roughly compareable is Damage Reduction.

>
>>nothing else, I don't doubt for a moment that even with that investment, our
>>local high quality power gamer could make a quite viable starting character
>>using foci for his other powers...and it'd get just more and more godawful
>>as time went on.
>
>Without a doubt, I hardly ever run into the kinds of trouble I hear people
>listing with their powers, because we dont have powergamers or people of
>that ilk in our gaming group. People make characters based on their
>concept, often taking more disads than they get points for and buying
>things that really aren't useful just for the flavor.

He designs character by his concept too. It's just that his concepts are
all power-intensive. It's a mistake to think a power gamer isn't going to
have a strong concept; a good one can make a perfectly valid looking
idea...that also runs all over the game.

>
>But I would have to say here that noting a powergamer would misuse
>something is hardly a statment against the device, that is true about
>practically any power or rule.

And ones they can do it with trivially are by their nature suspect. This is
one of those.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:50:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Automata

>In a sense, but its not that he has a concept like "I want to make a
>character who has fought psychic wars his whole life and is a burnt out
>shell that can call on immense power (a personal favorite I haven't been
>able to use -- think Blue Oyster Cult's Veteran of the Psychic Wars) at
>great cost." He says "I want to make the most ass kicking character
>possible and I have a power construct I want to try -- oh, and he's an
>egoist." At least thats what I have run into.

Nope. It's "Here's a guy who has started with a low level of natural
telepathic ability, and was kidnapped by aliens who trained him to use it to
the optimum at great cost to him...which means it's built with X, Y, and Z
Limitations, and he also has these abilities." Said Limitations allowing
him to of course squeeze more active points out of the thing, and said side
abilities working synergistically with the same. But the concept holds
together, and for the most part the limitations and powers all follow in
concept.

Power-gamers are not the simply, one note breed people would prefer they
were. In a way, they'd be much easier to deal with if they were.
>
>>>But I would have to say here that noting a powergamer would misuse
>>>something is hardly a statment against the device, that is true about
>>>practically any power or rule.
>>
>>And ones they can do it with trivially are by their nature suspect. This is
>>one of those.
>
>Yeah I suppose. I guess I just have playtested the way I do it and haven't
>seen any trouble with it, being invulnerable is something people seem to
>run screaming from and really isn't all its cracked up to be.

While that's a valid reason for houserules, it's always suspect to make a
general rule based on just how it works with a local group. That's one
reason some game rules look so screwy; they worked okay...for the game
designer's group.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:22:13 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: New XXX Hero Books in the offing?

In a message dated 6/10/99 10:23:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
john.desmarais@ibm.net writes:

> >On the other hand, the REAL Herogames site is back up and looks pretty
sharp.
>

is the web site still www.herogames.com?

andy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:28:02 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: HERO site back up?

At 11:22 PM 6/10/1999 EDT, AndMat3@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 6/10/99 10:23:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>john.desmarais@ibm.net writes:
>
>> >On the other hand, the REAL Herogames site is back up and looks pretty
>sharp.
>>
>
>is the web site still www.herogames.com?

I'm wondering that myself; I've tried it twice since seeing this post
(and other messages responding to it, and I still get the error message...).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:22:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Automata

>Automatons that buy Takes No Stun only take body just like vehicles. This is
>the reason that for Automatons that have the Take No Stun power, they pay
>3 points for 1 point of PD and 1 point of ED. Just like a vehicle which pays
>3 points for 1 point of DEF wich is equivelnt to PD and ED. Now in both

Actually, nowhere does it say the defense automatons get is automatically
resistant, and their base defense is not half again but three times normal.
Apples and oranges.

>cases the defence is resistant so it turns out that the costs for both are
exactly
>the same as cost for Armor. Amazingly well balanced. The only problem here
>is that you can get the same effect of buying an automaton and computer with
>buying a vehicle and computer. The only difference is that the vehicle
does not
>have to pay for the Takes No Stun power, it gets it free.

As I note above, their defenses do not cost the same, either.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:40:36 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@inetnebr.com>
Subject: Re: The Mummy

Michael Surbrook wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Jun 1999, Geoff Speare wrote:
>
> > > "...a man barely alive. We can rebuild him..."
> >
> > So you will answer the age-old question, "Are cheesy sound effects a
> > Limitation or a Disadvantage?"
>
> Nope, the novel doesn't have cheesy sound effect. (Yes, this will be the
> original Martin Caidin version, not the TV version.)
>

Ahh then moving in slow motion as a special effect for moving fast is also out?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 00:44:44 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Rod to Snake/Sticks to Snakes

At 12:02 PM 6/10/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
> I'm working on a construct that turns a rod or a stick into
>snakes.
> I want to use Summon to represent this power. However, I'm not
>sure if the power qualifies for the Foci limitation, since the sticks turn
>into snakes.
>
Hate to steer this into the iceberg of another thread, but this sounds like
a perfect use for Transform.


============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 01:10:17 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Can a base be a scientist?

At 03:23 PM 6/10/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>I'm writing up a base with a bunch of labs, and it suddenly occurred to me
>>I could save a few points buying the Scientist skill modifier for the base.
>>My first thought was that this was pretty point munchkinish, but it does
>>make a certain amount of sense for a high tech facility to be constructed
>>in a way to facilitate adding new labs. And I can't find anything that
>>makes this illegal. Any opinions?
>
>Ooh, nice one. :) If I allowed Scientist for characters, I would probably
>allow it for a base, but require some sort of "special effect" drawback
>(example: all labs use some common equipment, which if destroyed would
>incapacitate most/all labs).
>
>Geoff Speare
>
When I was in High School, they offered Chemistry, Physics, and a two year
course that combined the two. They said if you wanted to go on to Advanced
in either subject, you should take the two year course because you would
need the background in the other science. I can see this reasoning
extending to the presence of a physics lab next to the chemistry lab giving
you a +1 to chemistry tasks, and I agree that a decent way to use existing
rules to simulate this would be to use Scientist to make buying the labs
cost fewer points. I also agree about shared equipment. Nearly all labs
will duplicate equipment from other labs and cost/points can be saved by
buying several labs at once, although I might make it difficult to use all
the labs at once. ("I need the high pressure chamber to modify these
crystals." "Well I'm using it to study these plants.")




============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.

------------------------------

End of champ-l-digest V1 #388
*****************************


Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:12 PM