Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 471

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 7:07 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #471


champ-l-digest Tuesday, July 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number 471



In this issue:

Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Changes to Heromaker?
Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Changes to Heromaker?
Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
RE: Extra Time & Multipower Slots
Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
Construction Workshop HTML output filter
Re: Changes to Heromaker?
RE: Extra Time & Multipower Slots
Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
Re: Construction Workshop HTML output filter
Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
Re: Construction Workshop HTML output filter
Commments on a vehicle
Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
Re: Construction Workshop HTML output filter
Re: Commments on a vehicle

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:21:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks

> From jeffj@io.com Tue Jul 27 12:50 CDT 1999
> X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: jeffj owned process doing -bs
> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:50:23 -0500 (CDT)
> From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
> To: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
> cc: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
> MIME-Version: 1.0
>
> On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Curt Hicks wrote:
> > > > * Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net> on Mon, 26 Jul 1999
> > > > | Considering the fact that a person taken to -1x10^128+20 stun
> > > > | would require an artificial means of support to keep them alive for
> > > > | the 2.5x10^127+5 recoveries it would take to get back to 0 stun.
> > > >
> > > > Show me where in the BBB it says any such thing.
> > >
> > > I'll show you were it *doesn't*...there's a little chart in there that
> > > says if you're under -30(?) STUN, you are in the land of GMO - GM's Option
> > > as to when you recover.
> >
> > There is the little matter of starving to death....
>
> ...which is completely moot since if you're under -30 STUN you're not
> going to be unconscious for long enough, and if you're over -30 STUN the
> Gamemaster *decides* (hence the term GM's Option) whether you're out long
> enough to starve to death or not.
>

Pardon me. I assumed that -1x10^128+20 stun was over -30 STUN.

Curt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:29:35 EDT
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: Changes to Heromaker?

In a message dated 7/27/99 10:14:42 AM, james@javaman.to writes:

>I don't suppose there is any chance of a discount for those poor owners
>of the HeroMaker software to get Creation Workshop or Hero Creator?

No, sorry. We've already kept the pricing of Creation Workshop and HERO=20
Creator very low, and they are entirely different pieces of software from=20
HeroMaker. We pay good royalties to the programmer... and there really isn't=20
room for discounting in our price structure.

=97 Steve Peterson, Hero Games=20

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:10:09 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies

At 08:01 AM 7/27/1999 -0700, Mark Lemming wrote:
>
>I'll just stay completly off-topic. While Wild, Wild West was a poorly
>executed film, I didn't have a problem with the casting. The film
>itself makes a good outline for a convention game. Linear plot, action,
>and just enough opportunities for role-playing to throw off suspicion.

Will Smith playing James West, and you didn't have a problem with it?
Don't get me wrong; there are plenty of opportunities for heroic Negroes
(if you'll pardon the period term) in Westerns. Cleavon Little in "Blazing
Saddles" and Julius Carrey in "The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr." come
right to mind as good examples. Will Smith in "The Wild Wild West" is a
bad one.
And it's not just because James West is established as a white man,
either. I could see Will playing Artemis Gordon, either as a northern
Negro or as a former slave. (For that matter, Will could probably play a
decent Peter Parker without too much reworking.)

>> (This does kind of relate to this list, BTW, in that I think that
>> "Gilligan's Island" would make an interesting setting for a published HERO
>> System game. Once, when I was gaming in Salem, someone threw together a
>> Gilligan's Island one-shot game using the HERO System, and while I wasn't
>> able to participate in it, I did hear stories about it afterward about how
>> much fun it was.)
>
>Now how many people would want to see Muppet Hero?

Muppet Hero? Hmmmm.....
You know, all it would take to make Gilligan's Island into a decent
setting for HERO would be some rules for "Saturday-morning" settings. A
lot of the physical action gags on that show were liberally borrowed from
cartoons, such as one scene (maybe more than one) where Gilligan is so
spooked by something that he runs right across the lagoon, on top of the
water. Once such rules are taken care of, all that would be needed would
be a layout, some character write-ups, some special discussion of Skills
handling, and some scenarios.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:43:21 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks

> > > There is the little matter of starving to death....
> > ...which is completely moot since if you're under -30 STUN you're not
> > going to be unconscious for long enough, and if you're over -30 STUN the
> > Gamemaster *decides* (hence the term GM's Option) whether you're out
long
> > enough to starve to death or not.
> Pardon me. I assumed that -1x10^128+20 stun was over -30 STUN.

I'm not sure why the point came up, but I believe that the point was: there
is no difference within the official rules between -1x10^128+20 Stun under 0
and -31 Stun under 0: you wake up when the GM says you do either way. At the
point you are talking about, you speak of Divine Providence if you get up in
under a year, but, that's really beside the point :)

So, whether you starve to death or not is up to the GM, not the rules, which
may have been the point of the point.

JAJ, GP

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:49:42 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Changes to Heromaker?

> >I don't suppose there is any chance of a discount for those poor owners
> >of the HeroMaker software to get Creation Workshop or Hero Creator?
>
> No, sorry. We've already kept the pricing of Creation Workshop and HERO
> Creator very low, and they are entirely different pieces of software from
> HeroMaker. We pay good royalties to the programmer... and there really
isn't
> room for discounting in our price structure.

Ah, well, it's not as if $20 is a hardship for the Hero 5th Creator, if past
pricing is any guide. Of course, I require all the game systems, the
conversion scripts, the POWER! HA HA... Uhm, pardon.

I was disappointed about one thing: Cthulhu's ability to eat 1-6
investigators in a round just doesn't translate to Fuzion (and thence to
wherever you want and have the conversion script for) well. Dang it.

James

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:18:28 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <christopherrt@home.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies

>>Now how many people would want to see Muppet Hero?
>
> Muppet Hero? Hmmmm.....
> You know, all it would take to make Gilligan's Island into a decent
>setting for HERO would be some rules for "Saturday-morning" settings. A
>lot of the physical action gags on that show were liberally borrowed from
>cartoons, such as one scene (maybe more than one) where Gilligan is so
>spooked by something that he runs right across the lagoon, on top of the
>water. Once such rules are taken care of, all that would be needed would
>be a layout, some character write-ups, some special discussion of Skills
>handling, and some scenarios.

There was a scene where Gilligan actually was flying too, until the
Professor pointed out this wasn't possible and he plunged to the water
below. Speaking of the professor, both him and the Skipper need some kind
of carpentry Phys lim disabling them from repairing a 3 foot hole in a boat

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:29:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks

Yep. I agree that both -1x10^128+20 and > - 30 stun are both
GM"s option. My point was that if you're at GM"s option,
then possibly you might need artificial means of support to keep
the character alive because of starvation.

I hadn't meant to claim that it would necessarily take
"the 2.5x10^127+5 recoveries"....

Curt


>
> > > > There is the little matter of starving to death....
> > > ...which is completely moot since if you're under -30 STUN you're not
> > > going to be unconscious for long enough, and if you're over -30 STUN the
> > > Gamemaster *decides* (hence the term GM's Option) whether you're out
> long
> > > enough to starve to death or not.
> > Pardon me. I assumed that -1x10^128+20 stun was over -30 STUN.
>
> I'm not sure why the point came up, but I believe that the point was: there
> is no difference within the official rules between -1x10^128+20 Stun under 0
> and -31 Stun under 0: you wake up when the GM says you do either way. At the
> point you are talking about, you speak of Divine Providence if you get up in
> under a year, but, that's really beside the point :)
>
> So, whether you starve to death or not is up to the GM, not the rules, which
> may have been the point of the point.
>
> JAJ, GP
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:30:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies

> From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
>>
> At 08:01 AM 7/27/1999 -0700, Mark Lemming wrote:
> >
> >I'll just stay completly off-topic. While Wild, Wild West was a poorly
> >executed film, I didn't have a problem with the casting. The film
> >itself makes a good outline for a convention game. Linear plot, action,
> >and just enough opportunities for role-playing to throw off suspicion.
>
> Will Smith playing James West, and you didn't have a problem with it?
> Don't get me wrong; there are plenty of opportunities for heroic Negroes
> (if you'll pardon the period term) in Westerns. Cleavon Little in "Blazing
> Saddles" and Julius Carrey in "The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr." come
> right to mind as good examples. Will Smith in "The Wild Wild West" is a
> bad one.
> And it's not just because James West is established as a white man,
> either. I could see Will playing Artemis Gordon, either as a northern
> Negro or as a former slave. (For that matter, Will could probably play a
> decent Peter Parker without too much reworking.)
>

Then why is it because ?

Curt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:32:01 GMT
From: "S A Rudy" <sarudy@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Extra Time &amp; Multipower Slots

"Scott A. Colcord" <sacolcor@ic.net> writes:
>GAZZA wrote:
>>Given that it IS very common to view "Extra Time" as "I can't do
>>anything until this time elapses", perhaps a new limitation that
>>reflects this is in order. It would, in general, be more limiting
>>than Extra Time is.
>
>It seems to me that Concentration would probably fit the bill here.

Exactly. Or at least, in combination with "Extra Time".

Extra Time only - it takes longer to go off

Concentration only - it goes off right away but you can't do anything else
(0 DCV_

Extra Time + Concentration - it takes longer to go off and you can't do
anything else.

The only problem here is that by a strict interpretation of the rules, the
concentration disad would continue to apply even after the extra time was
satisfied. It would be a reasonable GM ruling, though, that the
concentration disad is satisfied by taking place during the extra time,
since otherwise it's an extra inconvenience.


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:52:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies

On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 08:01 AM 7/27/1999 -0700, Mark Lemming wrote:
> >
> >I'll just stay completly off-topic. While Wild, Wild West was a poorly
> >executed film, I didn't have a problem with the casting. The film
> >itself makes a good outline for a convention game. Linear plot, action,
> >and just enough opportunities for role-playing to throw off suspicion.
>
> Will Smith playing James West, and you didn't have a problem with it?

One of my favorite lines on the topic: "The bad guy has an 80-foot
mechanical tarantula, and you're worried about the realism of a black guy
being in the Secret Service?"

WWW was, as near as I can tell, a fantasy. (I haven't seen it - nor have
I seen the original series.) A lot of fantasies have an anachronistic
amount of tolerance for race or gender, mostly because of the culture of
our modern times. I don't have a problem with this when I go to suspend
my disbelief.

If WWW purported to be a 'realistic' Western, it'd be a problem. But it
didn't, not by a long shot.

J

"Yeilds falsehood when preceded by its quotation" Jeff Johnston
yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation. jeffj @ io.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 15:55:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies

On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:

> WWW was, as near as I can tell, a fantasy. (I haven't seen it - nor have
> I seen the original series.) A lot of fantasies have an anachronistic
> amount of tolerance for race or gender, mostly because of the culture of
> our modern times. I don't have a problem with this when I go to suspend
> my disbelief.

I used to watch the original all the time, which is why I didn't care for
Will Smith being James West.

> If WWW purported to be a 'realistic' Western, it'd be a problem. But it
> didn't, not by a long shot.

Yeah, go watch "The Unforgiven" for that.

And if you want a fun Western, go see Silverado.

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"You! Get me a drink! Make it large, strong, and to go,
and put it on Godot's tab!"
Der Rock the Destroyer, from _Buck Godot: PSmIth_

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:54:55 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies

> > Will Smith playing James West, and you didn't have a problem with it?
>
> One of my favorite lines on the topic: "The bad guy has an 80-foot
> mechanical tarantula, and you're worried about the realism of a black guy
> being in the Secret Service?"

As near as I can tell from his comments, Bob has no problem with "a black
guy being in the Secret Service". He specifically brought up that he'd have
no trouble with Will as Artie, in fact, who was in the Secret Service as
well. So, neither the idea you mention nor the idea of a character who was
white is now black could possibly be the problem, as Will being Artie defies
these ideas (since Artie was originally black).

Will Smith is quite capable of playing a certain type of role. Some people
don't believe the roles he is good at are appropriate for the part of James
West. If, say, Kevin Costner were slated to play James West and people who
saw the original show objected that he couldn't do the part right, the race
issue would, for obvious reasons, never have come up. Why is it necessary to
bring it up because Bob doesn't like Will in the part?

James

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 15:32:46 -0500
From: Chris Olson <chris_olson@itd.sterling.com>
Subject: Construction Workshop HTML output filter

Was anyone else disappointed in the quality of the output filter
provided with Creation Workshop and Hero Creator? It looked like the
text filter was modified to create an html dump.

I wanted a sophisticated html page to be generated, one that looked like
a character sheet. So I created one.

After releasing it to the world, several people reported that Internet
Explorer had a problem displaying the form. I tracked it down to the
fact that Netscape had added a new option to the table tag, call 'COLS'
which let you set up equal column widths in the table easily. Internet
Explorer ignored the option. I was stumped on how to fix it, until last
night.

It was really simple. Just set the width of each column to be a
percentage of the total (3 columns, 33.3% each, 2 columns, 50% each,
etc.). Why it took so long to figure this out, I do not know ...
I blame sunspots ...

Take a second look at it, and let me know what you think:

http://www.novia.net/~pern/chris/champs/Hero.html

- --
Chris Olson 0309 X257977-A S va dr zh vi 422 _______________
Chris_Olson@ITD.Sterling.COM |-._ __,---,'
Traveller \() ` --' ,'
- --------------------------------------------------------- | | ,'
RPG Software \_()| ,'
in the Far Future \ |,'

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:00:55 EDT
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: Changes to Heromaker?

In a message dated 7/27/99 12:13:03 PM, james@javaman.to writes:

>Ah, well, it's not as if $20 is a hardship for the Hero 5th Creator, if
>past
>
>pricing is any guide. Of course, I require all the game systems, the
>
>conversion scripts, the POWER! HA HA... Uhm, pardon.

Oh, I should mention that the templates are $15 each; so once you own=20
Creation Workshop or any one of the Creator products, successive templates=20
are not expensive at all.

=97 Steve Peterson=20

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:03:41 -0400
From: "Scott A. Colcord" <sacolcor@ic.net>
Subject: RE: Extra Time & Multipower Slots

> Extra Time + Concentration - it takes longer to go off and you can't do
> anything else.
>
> The only problem here is that by a strict interpretation of the rules, the
> concentration disad would continue to apply even after the extra time was
> satisfied. It would be a reasonable GM ruling, though, that the
> concentration disad is satisfied by taking place during the extra time,
> since otherwise it's an extra inconvenience.

Actually, isn't this covered under the Concentration disad? If you need to
maintain concentration for a constant power beyond the period of activation,
the value of the Concentration disad is doubled.

----Scott

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:06:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies

On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, James Jandebeur wrote:

> > > Will Smith playing James West, and you didn't have a problem with it?
> >
> > One of my favorite lines on the topic: "The bad guy has an 80-foot
> > mechanical tarantula, and you're worried about the realism of a black guy
> > being in the Secret Service?"
>
> As near as I can tell from his comments, Bob has no problem with "a black
> guy being in the Secret Service". He specifically brought up that he'd have
> no trouble with Will as Artie, in fact, who was in the Secret Service as
> well.

I thought Gordon was a US Marshal?

The race issue was the only specific argument against Will Smith in that
role that I've personally seen (and Bob didn't specify *why* he thought
Will Smith was the wrong man for the part), which is why I brought it up.

J

"Yeilds falsehood when preceded by its quotation" Jeff Johnston
yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation. jeffj @ io.com

------------------------------

Date: 27 Jul 1999 17:36:03 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Construction Workshop HTML output filter

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

* Chris Olson <chris_olson@itd.sterling.com> on Tue, 27 Jul 1999
| I wanted a sophisticated html page to be generated,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now there is a contradiction in terms.

| It was really simple. Just set the width of each column to be a
| percentage of the total (3 columns, 33.3% each, 2 columns, 50% each,
| etc.). Why it took so long to figure this out, I do not know ...
| I blame sunspots ...

I blame the fact that HTML stopped being useful the moment Netscape decided
to implement proprietary markup that functioned radically differently than
the ratified standards at the time (case in point, Netscape's tables cannot
be displayed at all on a browser that truely complies with the HTML 3
standards).

But that's just a peeve of mine.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE3niZDgl+vIlSVSNkRApxNAKC8TwPHFLbqNIEbqf+FhcN6CRij4ACg8y1C
JknTnBZyDHsZqZLUefjCh8U=
=Aa+j
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:40:13 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies

At 02:52 PM 7/27/1999 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> At 08:01 AM 7/27/1999 -0700, Mark Lemming wrote:
>> >
>> >I'll just stay completly off-topic. While Wild, Wild West was a poorly
>> >executed film, I didn't have a problem with the casting. The film
>> >itself makes a good outline for a convention game. Linear plot, action,
>> >and just enough opportunities for role-playing to throw off suspicion.
>>
>> Will Smith playing James West, and you didn't have a problem with it?
>
>One of my favorite lines on the topic: "The bad guy has an 80-foot
>mechanical tarantula, and you're worried about the realism of a black guy
>being in the Secret Service?"

I didn't even know about the giant mechanical spider until the trailers
started coming out. When I saw it, I nearly choked, and remarked to my
wife that the producers must have taken every possible cue from the motion
picture reworking of "The Avengers."

>WWW was, as near as I can tell, a fantasy. (I haven't seen it - nor have
>I seen the original series.) A lot of fantasies have an anachronistic
>amount of tolerance for race or gender, mostly because of the culture of
>our modern times. I don't have a problem with this when I go to suspend
>my disbelief.

If this had been billed as just another Western, without any connection
to the Robert Conrad series, it might've been okay -- or, at any rate, the
above things (the casting of Will Smith in the heroic role, and the giant
mechanical spider) would have been very minor indeed. There are other
things wrong with the movie, but to call it "The Wild Wild West" and have
this kind of stuff going on only demonstrates to me a severe lack of
understanding of the original program, and of the genre in general.

>If WWW purported to be a 'realistic' Western, it'd be a problem. But it
>didn't, not by a long shot.

It also purports to be WWW. Since you've not seen the Robert Conrad
series either, the comparisons will (understandably) fall flat with you.
Compare this to what I was originally bringing up -- Gilligan's Island.
I can definitely see Brian Dennehy playing the Skipper, or Julia
Louis-Dreyfus as Mary Ann -- I think both are just a little old for the
respective parts, but they're at least true to the essence of the parts.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:55:09 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies

At 04:06 PM 7/27/1999 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, James Jandebeur wrote:
>
>> > > Will Smith playing James West, and you didn't have a problem with
it?
>> >
>> > One of my favorite lines on the topic: "The bad guy has an 80-foot
>> > mechanical tarantula, and you're worried about the realism of a black guy
>> > being in the Secret Service?"
>>
>> As near as I can tell from his comments, Bob has no problem with "a black
>> guy being in the Secret Service". He specifically brought up that he'd have
>> no trouble with Will as Artie, in fact, who was in the Secret Service as
>> well.
>
>I thought Gordon was a US Marshal?
>
>The race issue was the only specific argument against Will Smith in that
>role that I've personally seen (and Bob didn't specify *why* he thought
>Will Smith was the wrong man for the part), which is why I brought it up.

Actually, part (but only part) of the reason I have a problem with Will
Smith in that part was because of his race. I just can't see a black man
in a straight heroic role in a Western, such as James West is. And it's
not just Dumb White Guy Syndrome talking here; I've mentioned my concerns
to my best friend, who is black, and one other black person, and they
agree. Westerns are one genre where straight heroic roles, of the type
that James West is, are just not right for African-American actors. There
are other types of heroic roles that are appropriate for black men, such as
Lord Bowler in the "Brisco County Jr" series (who happens to be one of my
favorite Western characters of all time, BTW), or even Artemis Gordon (who
is more of an "eccentric hero" type, which would be a great role for Will).
Another reason that Will Smith is wrong for James West is that Will is
still in his "smart-mouthed con man" period. He established this screen
persona on "The Fresh Prince of Bel Air," and continued it in "Independence
Day," and while his subsequent roles have toned it down a bit, even in this
film he's not quite rid of it yet. As a result, James West becomes the
"comic hero," completely changing the mood of the piece.
I also think that Will's about eight years too young for the part; I
think of James West, a senior and leading-edge Secret Service man, as
someone in his mid thirties. Will's still in his late twenties.
Had I been casting the movie, Tom Cruise would probably have gotten the
part of James West.
And that's all I have to say on this part of the topic. I only brought
up WWW as something to compare the casting decisions on Gilligan's Island
to anyway; I like Brian Dennehy as the Skipper and Julia Louis-Dreyfus as
Mary Ann. (Again, with me in the casting director's chair, John Goodman
would probably have been the Skipper. But I don't think Brian will turn
out to be a bad choice.) And I mostly brought up Gilligan's Island because
I wondered how people would respond to the possibility of an RPG book based
on the setting.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:53:25 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies

Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>
> > WWW was, as near as I can tell, a fantasy. (I haven't seen it - nor have
> > I seen the original series.) A lot of fantasies have an anachronistic
> > amount of tolerance for race or gender, mostly because of the culture of
> > our modern times. I don't have a problem with this when I go to suspend
> > my disbelief.
>
> I used to watch the original all the time, which is why I didn't care for
> Will Smith being James West.

I grew up on it as well and loved the show. When I heard Will Smith was
going to be James West, I did do a double take. But Robert Conrad and
Will Smith have played self confident people in past films/TV, so I got
past it. My problems were with the script and editing.

> > If WWW purported to be a 'realistic' Western, it'd be a problem. But it
> > didn't, not by a long shot.
>
> Yeah, go watch "The Unforgiven" for that.
>
> And if you want a fun Western, go see Silverado.

Agreed.

- -Mark Lemming

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:58:00 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies

Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> At 08:01 AM 7/27/1999 -0700, Mark Lemming wrote:
> >Now how many people would want to see Muppet Hero?
>
> Muppet Hero? Hmmmm.....
> You know, all it would take to make Gilligan's Island into a decent
> setting for HERO would be some rules for "Saturday-morning" settings. A
> lot of the physical action gags on that show were liberally borrowed from
> cartoons, such as one scene (maybe more than one) where Gilligan is so
> spooked by something that he runs right across the lagoon, on top of the
> water. Once such rules are taken care of, all that would be needed would
> be a layout, some character write-ups, some special discussion of Skills
> handling, and some scenarios.

Sort of Toon-Hero.

One of the Hero groups that came out of Santa Cruz had a bunch
of agents. One of them was based off Beaker.

Danger Sense 17-, (-1 Limitation, Can't do anything about it)

- -Mark Lemming

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 15:28:01 -0700
From: "Jim Dickinson" <gameknight@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Construction Workshop HTML output filter

Public Kudos to Chris for the best damned HTML character sheet I have EVER
seen online!


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Olson <chris_olson@itd.sterling.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 1:32 PM
Subject: Construction Workshop HTML output filter


> Was anyone else disappointed in the quality of the output filter
> provided with Creation Workshop and Hero Creator? It looked like the
> text filter was modified to create an html dump.
>
> I wanted a sophisticated html page to be generated, one that looked like
> a character sheet. So I created one.
>
> After releasing it to the world, several people reported that Internet
> Explorer had a problem displaying the form. I tracked it down to the
> fact that Netscape had added a new option to the table tag, call 'COLS'
> which let you set up equal column widths in the table easily. Internet
> Explorer ignored the option. I was stumped on how to fix it, until last
> night.
>
> It was really simple. Just set the width of each column to be a
> percentage of the total (3 columns, 33.3% each, 2 columns, 50% each,
> etc.). Why it took so long to figure this out, I do not know ...
> I blame sunspots ...
>
> Take a second look at it, and let me know what you think:
>
> http://www.novia.net/~pern/chris/champs/Hero.html
>
> --
> Chris Olson 0309 X257977-A S va dr zh vi 422
_______________
> Chris_Olson@ITD.Sterling.COM |-._
__,---,'
> Traveller \() ` --'
,'
> --------------------------------------------------------- | | ,'
> RPG Software \_()| ,'
> in the Far Future \ |,'
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:51:40 GMT
From: sheehys@wvc.net (Sheehys)
Subject: Commments on a vehicle

I would like some help. I am trying to build a submarine that will
swim through the water as well as the soil of the earth but not
through solid rock. It also has the intelligence of a four year old
child and should get into trouble as much as a four year old does. =20
This is what I have so far. Any commits would be greated appricated.

Cost Vehicle Characteristics

0 STR 10/55=09
15 DEX 15
10 BODY 20/29
5 SPD 3
45 Size Increase-9: 32 hexes (1,377 sq ft), 16 inside, 32
passengers, 8" long x 4" wide, 50,000 kg, KB -9, DCV-5
18 DEF 8; Coverage: Complete, -0; Protects: Top and Bottom, -0;
Protects Passengers: Yes, -0
- -12 Ground Movement (0", NC: 0", 0mph); Non-Combat Multiplier: =D72,
+0; Has Turn Mode: No, +0
27 Swimming (24", NC: 192", 214mph); Non-Combat Multiplier: =D78,
+10; Has Turn Mode: No, +0; Limited Power works only
in water or earth: Slightly, -=BC
4 +4 INT (4)
20 +10 EGO (20)
12 Change Environment Soil to Water (8" rad.); Effect: Variable,
+1; Special Effect: Magic; Always On: -=BD;
Independent: -2; Limited Power: Only on Ship: -=BD;
Reduced END: Zero, =BD (50) 0
2 Life Support: High Pressure/Vacuum; Effect: Variable, +1;
Special Effect: Magic; Always On: -=BD; Independent: -2;
Limited Power: Only on Ship: -=BD; Reduced END: Zero, =BD
(7) 0
2 Life Support: Intense Heat/Cold; Effect: Variable, +1; Special
Effect: Magic; Always On: -=BD; Independent: -2; Limited
Power: Only on Ship: -=BD; Reduced END: Zero, =BD (7)
0
2 Water Vehicles
3 Combat Driving 12-
3 Navigation 11-
3 Bump of Direction
159 Vehicle Cost

99+ Disadvantages (Cost: 99/5 =3D 20)
25 Psych. Lim.: Egotistical (Very Common, Total)
15 Psych. Lim. Overconfident (Very Common, Moderate)
20 Psych. Lim.: Curiosity (Very Common, Strong)

60 Disadvantages Total


We, the willing. Led by the unknowing. =20
Are doing the impossible, for the ungreateful.=20
We have done so much, for so long, =20
with so little, we are now qualified, =20
to do anything, with nothing. =20
~~ The Trapper =20
___________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:35:29 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies

At 08:01 AM 7/27/1999 -0700, Mark Lemming wrote:
>Bob Greenwade wrote:
>>
>> To soon be added to the growing list of classic television programs
>> being remade as movies is none other than "Gilligan's Island." Little
>> specific information is available aside from Brian Dennehy as the Skipper,
>> and Julia Louis-Dreyfus as Mary Ann.
>
>
>Now how many people would want to see Muppet Hero?

Sure, I'd like to see Muppet Hero. Inner City Games' "Fuzzy Heroes"
already has a variety of genre sourcebooks for this sort of thing, though.
In addittion to "Fuzzy Sooper Heroes", they have "Under the Covers: The
Clandestine Operations of the Fuzzy Heroes", "Heroes in Space! The Right
Stuffing", "The Lost Toys: Cute and Fuzzy Gothic Horror", "The 'F' Files:
Paranormal Investigations in the World of Fuzzy Heroes", "Very Large
Creatures (stuffed animals vs. 25mm miniatures)", and the soon to be
released "Plastic Ships and Fuzzy Men" (high seas/pirate supplement).

Assuming the Gilligan's Island movie includes a remake of the premiere, and
is not a Castaways: Many Years After story, I'd like to see Katie Holmes as
Mary Ann. Julia Louis-Dreyfuss is okay, but Katie Holmes is hard to beat
for that wholesome appearance.

Damon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:00:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Construction Workshop HTML output filter

- --- Chris Olson <chris_olson@itd.sterling.com> wrote:
> Was anyone else disappointed in the quality of the output filter
> provided with Creation Workshop and Hero Creator? It looked like the
> text filter was modified to create an html dump.
>
> I wanted a sophisticated html page to be generated, one that looked like
> a character sheet. So I created one.
>
> After releasing it to the world, several people reported that Internet
> Explorer had a problem displaying the form. I tracked it down to the
> fact that Netscape had added a new option to the table tag, call 'COLS'
> which let you set up equal column widths in the table easily. Internet
> Explorer ignored the option. I was stumped on how to fix it, until last
> night.
>
> It was really simple. Just set the width of each column to be a
> percentage of the total (3 columns, 33.3% each, 2 columns, 50% each,
> etc.). Why it took so long to figure this out, I do not know ...
> I blame sunspots ...
>
> Take a second look at it, and let me know what you think:
>
> http://www.novia.net/~pern/chris/champs/Hero.html

Looks pretty spiff, even scales pretty well in different size browser windows
(down to 640 pixel wide, up to pretty much whatever size you want).

Guess I have one more reason to buy Creation Workshop.

Now, if those nice folks at Hero Games only had an on-line store.... :)

- -=>John D.
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:05:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Commments on a vehicle

- --- Sheehys <sheehys@wvc.net> wrote:
> I would like some help. I am trying to build a submarine that will
> swim through the water as well as the soil of the earth but not
> through solid rock. It also has the intelligence of a four year old
> child and should get into trouble as much as a four year old does.
> This is what I have so far. Any commits would be greated appricated.
>
> Cost Vehicle Characteristics
>
> 0 STR 10/55
> 15 DEX 15
> 10 BODY 20/29
> 5 SPD 3
> 45 Size Increase-9: 32 hexes (1,377 sq ft), 16 inside, 32
> passengers, 8" long x 4" wide, 50,000 kg, KB -9, DCV-5
> 18 DEF 8; Coverage: Complete, -0; Protects: Top and Bottom, -0;
> Protects Passengers: Yes, -0
> -12 Ground Movement (0", NC: 0", 0mph); Non-Combat Multiplier: 2,
> +0; Has Turn Mode: No, +0
> 27 Swimming (24", NC: 192", 214mph); Non-Combat Multiplier: 8,
> +10; Has Turn Mode: No, +0; Limited Power works only
> in water or earth: Slightly, -
> 4 +4 INT (4)
> 20 +10 EGO (20)
> 12 Change Environment Soil to Water (8" rad.); Effect: Variable,
> +1; Special Effect: Magic; Always On: -;
> Independent: -2; Limited Power: Only on Ship: -;
> Reduced END: Zero, (50) 0

I think I know what you're trying to do here, but Change Environment isn't the
way to do it. Soil to Water is much to extreme a change for CE, you would need
a Transformation Attack.

But, if you objective is to move through the ground, Tunneling (with a
limitation "not through anything harder than dense packed earth" or something
like that), and maybe with the advantage to close the hole behind it, is more
in line with what you're trying to do.


> 2 Life Support: High Pressure/Vacuum; Effect: Variable, +1;
> Special Effect: Magic; Always On: -; Independent: -2;
> Limited Power: Only on Ship: -; Reduced END: Zero,
> (7) 0
> 2 Life Support: Intense Heat/Cold; Effect: Variable, +1; Special
> Effect: Magic; Always On: -; Independent: -2; Limited
> Power: Only on Ship: -; Reduced END: Zero, (7)
> 0
> 2 Water Vehicles
> 3 Combat Driving 12-
> 3 Navigation 11-
> 3 Bump of Direction
> 159 Vehicle Cost
>
> 99+ Disadvantages (Cost: 99/5 = 20)
> 25 Psych. Lim.: Egotistical (Very Common, Total)
> 15 Psych. Lim. Overconfident (Very Common, Moderate)
> 20 Psych. Lim.: Curiosity (Very Common, Strong)
>
> 60 Disadvantages Total

- -=>John Desmarais

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

End of champ-l-digest V1 #471
*****************************


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Date: Monday, September 06, 1999 10:47 AM