Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 475
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 3:05 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #475
champ-l-digest Thursday, July 29 1999 Volume 01 : Number 475
In this issue:
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: OIHID?
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Anybody up for Long Term Stun (was stun from KA's)
Re: Anybody up for Long Term Stun (was stun from KA's)
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Defensive Strike ?
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Extra Time & Multipower Slots
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Extra Time & Multipower Slots
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Defensive Strike ?
Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Anybody up for Long Term Stun (was stun from KA's)
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Adventure Idea: Millennium Bug
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:41:48 +1000
From: Mad Hamish <h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
At 09:25 25/07/99 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
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>* Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net> on Sat, 24 Jul 1999
>| Balistic shock can kill
>
>By definition, Stun damage *CANNOT* kill.
Care to name anything in real life which can cause any sort of damage but
_can't_ kill?
****************************************************************************
The Politician's Slogan
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Hamish Laws
h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au
h_laws@tassie.net.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:52:42 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
At 02:23 PM 7/28/1999 -0700, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Bob Greenwade writes:
>
>> FWIW, with TUV it will take 42 BODY to completely disintegrate that car.
>> (A Vehicle becomes irreparable -- the vehicular equivalent of "dead" -- at
>> negative BODY, but it doesn't actually become confetti until twice that.)
>
>Grumble statistical anomalies caused by high body scores. This means that
a 16" shell (about 28d EX) won't reduce a car to confetti... Any attack
doing 2x body in one shot should create instant confetti (actually, I'm
somewhat of a fan of all objects having
> a flat 10 body, regardless of size).
Hopefully, not including planets! I can just see a single
terminal-velocity fall having universally dire consequences.... ;-]
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:45:32 +1000
From: Mad Hamish <h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
At 17:12 25/07/99 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
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>* Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net> on Sun, 25 Jul 1999
>| Niether does Ballistic Shock directly. It can cause muscle spasms and
>| loss of muscle control and when severe enough can cause muscles to shut
>| down. If the muscle happens to be the heart, it can kill.
>
>Thank you, I learned what systemic shock is some 20 years ago when I took
>my first First Aid and Lifesaving course.
>
>Systemic shock is *NOT* Stun damage. Systemic shock can kill; taking Stun
>damage cannot, ever, under any circumstances, kill someone. A person could
>be hammered to -1x10^128 Stun; he will not die from it.
Except of old age before recovering...
****************************************************************************
The Politician's Slogan
'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
****************************************************************************
Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws
h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au
h_laws@tassie.net.au
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:46:41 +1000
From: Mad Hamish <h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: OIHID?
At 12:46 20/07/99 -0400, geoff heald wrote:
>Hulk was practically textbook multiform with torn clothing relegated to
>SFX, but in later years the Banner personality got control of both forms.
>In fact, I seem to recall that at one point the Hulk and Banner were made
>into seperate people.
He's had radiation accidents. Not uncommon for superheroes who've been
around for 20 or 30 years..
>
>Sasquatch would be a perfect example of my problem (touched on in the
>reference above to the limitation) except that it became clear at the end
>that he wasn't this way at all. Sasquatch would be best built as Walter
>Langkowski having Summon, Mind Control, and maybe Extradimentional
>movement, because what happened was that the Sasquatch entity was trapped
>in a pocket somewhere, but Walter could trade places with it and then take
>control of it's body.
Which could be argued as a special effect of multiform.
****************************************************************************
The Politician's Slogan
'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
****************************************************************************
Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws
h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au
h_laws@tassie.net.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:10:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Bob Greenwade writes:
> Hopefully, not including planets! I can just see a single
> terminal-velocity fall having universally dire consequences.... ;-]
Yup. Planets have 10 body and subtract 90 dice from all attacks ;) Incidentally, a terminal velocity fall should actually only be 12-14 dice (given other scaling in the HERO system, 1 hex/segment should be 2-4 dice, and since x2 energy is +1d6, x2 speed is +2d6. Thus 30 hexes/segment is +10d6).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:24:59 -0700
From: Max Callahan <mcallahan@home.com>
Subject: Anybody up for Long Term Stun (was stun from KA's)
So, the comments about brusing and other damage that is too minor to call
body but still lasts a while got me thinking, what if we apply the long
term endurance rules to stun as well. Here's an example, a normal guy (20
stun, 4 rec) gets knocked out (-5 or so stun), the 25 stun he has taken is
over 5 times his rec, so he loses 8 long term stun. he can either spend 10
hours resting it off, or he will be feeling it for 2 days. Not a bad model
for brusing damage, only sutable for realy realistic games, but still an
option.
Max Callahan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:28:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Anybody up for Long Term Stun (was stun from KA's)
Max Callahan writes:
> So, the comments about brusing and other damage that is too minor to call
> body but still lasts a while got me thinking, what if we apply the long
> term endurance rules to stun as well. Here's an example, a normal guy (20
> stun, 4 rec) gets knocked out (-5 or so stun), the 25 stun he has taken is
> over 5 times his rec, so he loses 8 long term stun. he can either spend 10
> hours resting it off, or he will be feeling it for 2 days. Not a bad model
> for brusing damage, only sutable for realy realistic games, but still an
> option.
I've considered it, but it's usually excessively complicated to use long term END, let alone long term STUN. A simplified way I like for handling long term END is just: every time someone takes a recovery and fails to reach full END, they lose one long-term END. That works for STUN as well.
------------------------------
Date: 28 Jul 1999 20:46:18 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
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* Mad Hamish <h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au> on Wed, 28 Jul 1999
| Except of old age before recovering...
According to the message that I *JUST* got from Bruce Harlick on the subject:
When you are at GM's Option (-30 or more), you wake up when the gamemaster
feels it is appropriate. There is no need to track RECs at that point; you
are out of the action until the GM allows you to wake up.
Bruce
There is functionally no difference between being -30 Stun and -1x10^128
Stun, other than the GM's whim. And if your GM decides that -1x10^128 Stun
means you die of starvation or old age before you can wake up, I would say
that it is the GM that killed the character, not the Stun damage he's taken.
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------------------------------
Date: 28 Jul 1999 20:48:06 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
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* Mad Hamish <h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au> on Wed, 28 Jul 1999
| Care to name anything in real life which can cause any sort of damage but
| _can't_ kill?
Stings and bites from poisonous but generally not lethal insects and such,
like bees and some snakes.
Miscellaneous cuts, scrapes and bruises of the sort children collect.
Paper cuts.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:55:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Stainless Steel Rat writes:
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> * Mad Hamish <h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au> on Wed, 28 Jul 1999
> | Care to name anything in real life which can cause any sort of damage but
> | _can't_ kill?
>
> Stings and bites from poisonous but generally not lethal insects and such,
> like bees and some snakes.
Most such can kill, though extremely unlikely (due to allergic reactions).
>
> Miscellaneous cuts, scrapes and bruises of the sort children collect.
Well, by definition 'minor' wounds won't kill you, because if they'll kill you they aren't minor. However, most methods of inflicting such minor wounds could theoretically kill, though its generally extremely unlikely (well below the resolution of the hero system).
>
> Paper cuts.
Hm..ponder death of a thousand paper cuts.
However, I agree that there's things which cause damage which can't kill you under any normal circumstances (certainly, 10 of them won't make you be bleeding to death).
------------------------------
Date: 28 Jul 1999 21:06:05 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Defensive Strike ?
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* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Wed, 28 Jul 1999
| Are you saying, then, that a character who sprays an Autofire must make
| a single Attack Roll against all targets? That's not how I read it, given
| the example of this in the HSR.
Even so, it is still a single attack action, a single combat maneuver. By
the book, he could use Defensive Strike on two opponents who are in
adjacent hexes, and he gets his +1 OCV for both, but he is also -2 for the
two hexes he "fires" into. And yes, each thug requires a separate attack
roll. But it is still a single attack action.
What lorbaat is describing is using two different combat maneuvers in the
same action phase. He cannot strike at Thug A with his Defensive Strike
and Thug B with his Offensive Strike in the same action phase under any
circumstances, because these are two separate attack actions. If his GM
allows it, his GM has instituted a house rule that contradicts the
published rule.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 01:13:39 GMT
From: "S A Rudy" <sarudy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> wrote:
>There is functionally no difference between being -30 Stun and
>-1x10^128 Stun, other than the GM's whim. And if your GM decides that
>-1x10^128 Stun means you die of starvation or old age before you can wake
>up, I would say that it is the GM that
>killed the character, not the Stun damage he's taken.
Well, there is that.
If I ever get a character that takes that kind of egregious STUN, it's a
sure bet the next adventure's going to involve the character being nigh-dead
as a major plot point.
You know, having to fetch the soul back from the afterlife via spritual or
phychological means, tracking down the one doctor with the right specialty
from retirement, *something*...
- -S
S A Rudy http://www.eclipse.net/~srudy
+----------------------------------------------------------+
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:07:18 -0700
From: "Mr. Cup O. Slaw" <coleslaw1@wa.freei.net>
Subject: Re: Extra Time & Multipower Slots
Just because that particular slot is locked up does not mean that
I cannot use another slot (in the multipower) if I still have points left
in the multipower pool. (I know it can't be another attack power) Or am I
wrong about this?
Coleslaw
Filksinger wrote:
> From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
>
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> > * GAZZA <gazza@wantree.com.au> on Tue, 27 Jul 1999
> > | In fact this is NOT the case, although I will concede that it is
> often
> > | the way it tends to be (wrongly) interpreted. If I have a series
> of
> > | powers such as Force Field, Flight, and Shapeshift that all have
> the
> > | Extra Time limitation, I CAN activate the Flight and the
> Shapeshift
> > | while I'm spending time to activate the Force Field. Indeed, I can
> > | activate all three at once - it will simply take longer for them
> to
> > | "turn on".
> >
> > Really. I'll have to look at that again. If you're right, then it
> is we
> > (my group) that has been doing it wrong for-practically-ever.
>
> Depends upon which you mean. If the power with Extra Time is in a
> Multipower, then the slot is locked up. If it _isn't_ in a Multipower,
> then you can do whatever you please, so long as the Power with Extra
> Time does not require an attack roll. If it does, it prevents other
> attacks only, but has no other effects on the use of other abilities.
>
> Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:23:01 -0500
From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
>According to the message that I *JUST* got from Bruce Harlick on the subject:
>
> When you are at GM's Option (-30 or more), you wake up when the gamemaster
> feels it is appropriate. There is no need to track RECs at that point; you
> are out of the action until the GM allows you to wake up.
>
> Bruce
>
>There is functionally no difference between being -30 Stun and -1x10^128
>Stun, other than the GM's whim. And if your GM decides that -1x10^128 Stun
>means you die of starvation or old age before you can wake up, I would say
>that it is the GM that killed the character, not the Stun damage he's taken.
That's a wee much to conclude from Bruce's statement, I'd say. There's
also this functional difference between being at -30 and being at -10^128:
you can be Aided back from -30 with a few dice of Aid, and most GMs
would probably allow a REC every minute or five if someone is trying to
wake you (so you're only a REC or three away from consciousness).
Let's see what SteveP and SteveL have to say on the subject, too. They
might even disagree about the "killing the character" part.
Donald
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:20:27 -0700
From: "Mr. Cup O. Slaw" <coleslaw1@wa.freei.net>
Subject: Re: Extra Time & Multipower Slots
Well then, for the sake of the discussion, let's assume that the
slots are "not" ultras and the player has plenty of points left in his/her
multi pool to activate another non-power attack power slot. Again, the
question is can they do this? Extra time is not concentration so I don't
see why they would not be able to.
Coleslaw
Donald Tsang wrote:
> most people run their multipowers as all-Ultras, or darned close, where
> each slot takes up more than half the Multipower Reserve...
>
> Donald
------------------------------
Date: 28 Jul 1999 21:33:03 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
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* Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> on Wed, 28 Jul 1999
| Most such can kill, though extremely unlikely (due to allergic reactions).
Which is a character disadvantage, which makes the character an exception
rather than the rule.
| > Miscellaneous cuts, scrapes and bruises of the sort children collect.
| Well, by definition 'minor' wounds won't kill you, because if they'll
| kill you they aren't minor.
True enough, which is why for heroic games I would lump such things under
the category of Stun damage.
| However, most methods of inflicting such minor wounds could theoretically
| kill, though its generally extremely unlikely (well below the resolution
| of the hero system).
Ah, but when it ceases being "minor" it simultaneously ceases being Stun
damage. Thus, no problem.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:36:11 -0400
From: "Geoff Depew" <mephron@idt.net>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
> At 10:40 AM 7/28/1999 -0700, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >Geoff Speare writes:
> >
> >> If you're in one of my campaigns, you keep track to see if you can beat
the
> >> existing negative STUN record. :)
> >
> >My personal best is -217 stun, from something like six TOW hits from
> mechagodzilla, plus the damage he took from his own movethrough, plus the
> micronuke when mechagodzilla exploded.
>
> I've only seen as low as -82 STUN, on a villain who got triple-teamed
by
> a brick and three energy projectors.
In the game I'm in, the record, -254 STUN, was set recently. Poor Thok...
A Malvan war robot tunneled in UNDER Stronghold, disrupting the power
supply. One of the first escapees we encounter is Thok, climbing up the
elevator shaft. My martial artist superleaps and martial-throws him down,
managing to land on him, knocking him to -14. next round, someone dropped
the elevator... which landed on Thok. Later, The Monster got knocked from
the roof down the shaft.... landing on Thok. I think someone else got
knocked down the shaft to land on Thok, too. Anyway, by the time it was
over, Thok had taken 0 body, was at -254 stun, and got stuck back into hot
sleep....
What was great was people going, "He goes down the elevator shaft! Does he
land on Thok?" Invariably, the dice would say he did.
We sent Thok flowers. He woke up briefly and ate them.
------------------------------
Date: 28 Jul 1999 21:36:24 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
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* Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> on Wed, 28 Jul 1999
| That's a wee much to conclude from Bruce's statement, I'd say. There's
| also this functional difference between being at -30 and being at -10^128:
| you can be Aided back from -30 with a few dice of Aid, and most GMs
| would probably allow a REC every minute or five if someone is trying to
| wake you (so you're only a REC or three away from consciousness).
Now you are getting into specific cases of "what if" that cannot be covered
by playable game mechanics, which is why such degrees of negative Stun are
relegated to "GM's Option".
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:38:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: lorbaat <lorbaat@eskimo.thirteen.net>
Subject: Re: Defensive Strike ?
On 28 Jul 1999, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> What lorbaat is describing is using two different combat maneuvers in the
> same action phase. He cannot strike at Thug A with his Defensive Strike
> and Thug B with his Offensive Strike in the same action phase under any
> circumstances, because these are two separate attack actions. If his GM
> allows it, his GM has instituted a house rule that contradicts the
> published rule.
Except for the fact that you're describing something totally different
from what I described- and, in fact, are attributing to me something that
I directly said was not what we were doing.
I have no desire to use two different maneuvers- especially since, as I
said, even I can see that it's one single attack action.
eric
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:40:33 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
At 05:31 PM 7/28/1999 -0500, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
>At 06:28 AM 7/28/1999 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>>At 11:41 PM 7/27/1999 -0500, Ross Rannells wrote:
>>>
>>>Topher Grace doesn't look old enough to play Gilligan. I think the guy
>>>(can't recall his name) who plays Joxar on Xena. I think he could pull
>>>it off.
>>
>> Style-wise, Ted Raimi (Joxer) could do it, but he's way too old -- in
>>his mid-thirties, I believe (remember, he was on SeaQuest DSV also, as Tim
>>Ortiz).
>
>Maybe in an Alternate Dimension, Bob, but in /this/ universe, Raimi played
>officer Tim /O'Neill/ and Marco Sanchez played non-com Ortiz. :)
OK, now I gotta go check the IMDb on this again....
You're probably right, though.
- ---
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http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 19:09:26 -0700
From: "Jim Dickinson" <gameknight@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Shame on me for even getting involved in this overly-erroneous thread...but
what the hell....
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
>
> | Well, by definition 'minor' wounds won't kill you, because if they'll
> | kill you they aren't minor.
>
> True enough, which is why for heroic games I would lump such things under
> the category of Stun damage.
>
> | However, most methods of inflicting such minor wounds could
theoretically
> | kill, though its generally extremely unlikely (well below the resolution
> | of the hero system).
>
> Ah, but when it ceases being "minor" it simultaneously ceases being Stun
> damage. Thus, no problem.
I don't see how you could consider damage that causes a character to
suddenly be at the GM Option level to be a "minor" wound. Something that
knocks someone out for that long *can't* be _minor_ in any rational person's
mind.
But then again, we are not always dealing with rational people all the time,
so sometimes silly debates like this one go on and on and on...and usually
involve a great deal of posts from certain long-time subscribers of the list
(who shall remain nameless only because we all know who you are
anyway...hehehe) who seem to sometimes forget that this game system was not
originally conceived to simulate "reality" as most sane people experience
it, but rather "reality" as Foxbat experiences it.
Everyone have a great day, and happy gaming!
- ----------
Jim Dickinson / The Game Knight http://gameknight.virtualave.net
Check out the Circle of HEROs at http://welcome.to/thecoh
Find me in The FUDGE RPG Club! http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/fudge
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:34:08 -0500
From: Gary & Kim Miles <miles.kim.gary@mcleodusa.net>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Christopher Taylor wrote:
> At 01:17 PM 7/28/99 -0400, Geoff Speare wrote:
> >
> >>Right. Essentially, you stop keeping track of STUN once you're at -30,
> >>because after that it just doesn't matter - you're not going to get any
> >>*more* unconscious. Just like you stop keeping track of BODY at,
> >>um...-BODY, is it?...because after that you're not going to get any more
> >>vaporized.
> >
> >If you're in one of my campaigns, you keep track to see if you can beat the
> >existing negative STUN record. :)
>
> My personal best is -79, from a point blank burst of an auto shotgun.
> Appolyon lived, barely, because someone grabbed his medkit and hit him with
> it, but he didn't wake up for a very long time. But personally, I use the
> time chart, if you go to like REC/Month, you are comatose.
Only -79?! Our group's record is -218 STUN, which a character ended up with
when he was hit by Fastball (from Cy-Force), and knocked back into wall. My
ruling was that since he was knocked unconcious from the actual attack, the
STUN from the knockback was doubled, since he was already unconcious.
Our most recent fun thing was a Fantasy Hero scenario in which a player
character threw a spear at a villain, rolled damage (2d6), maxed out on BODY
(12 BODY), then rolled a 3 for hit location (Head). The villain wasn't wearing
a helmet. For color, I ruled that not only did the shot kill him, but that his
head was pinned to the granite wall behind him.
Gary
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:11:08 +0000
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@inetnebr.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
I made a minor proposal for a "realistic rule" for those playing that horrible
REAL LIFE genre
it allowed a constitution based role for when someone takes large amounts of
stun all at once
(your call how much large is I hate the genre) failure means death due to heart
failure
Mad Hamish wrote:
> At 09:25 25/07/99 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >Hash: SHA1
> >
> >* Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net> on Sat, 24 Jul 1999
> >| Balistic shock can kill
> >
> >By definition, Stun damage *CANNOT* kill.
>
> Care to name anything in real life which can cause any sort of damage but
> _can't_ kill?
>
> ****************************************************************************
> The Politician's Slogan
> 'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
> of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
> Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
> ****************************************************************************
>
> Mad Hamish
>
> Hamish Laws
> h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au
> h_laws@tassie.net.au
- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/lancelot/roleplay Lance Dyas
lancelot@inetnebr.com
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:05:20 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@flashmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
From: Filksinger <filksinger@flashmail.com>
> From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
<snip>
> > Killing someone by blowing their arm off is functionally
> _impossible_.
>
> Ever heard of shock? It is possible to kill a man that way; it just
> generally won't. And this is still a weakness in the system, as in
> HERO, it would kill him every time, since this is clearly two
> Disabling shots, which, even with hit location modifiers, is still
10
> BODY.
Sorry. For some reason, I read that as "blowing their arms off", not
"arm off".
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:11:03 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@flashmail.com>
Subject: Re: Anybody up for Long Term Stun (was stun from KA's)
From: Max Callahan <mcallahan@home.com>
> So, the comments about brusing and other damage that is too minor to
call
> body but still lasts a while got me thinking, what if we apply the
long
> term endurance rules to stun as well. Here's an example, a normal
guy (20
> stun, 4 rec) gets knocked out (-5 or so stun), the 25 stun he has
taken is
> over 5 times his rec, so he loses 8 long term stun. he can either
spend 10
> hours resting it off, or he will be feeling it for 2 days. Not a bad
model
> for brusing damage, only sutable for realy realistic games, but
still an
> option.
It will increase bookkeeping significantly.
But I like it.:)
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:02:28 -0700
From: James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
> Shame on me for even getting involved in this overly-erroneous thread...but
> what the hell....
Yes, shame on you. But it was such a good line about Foxbat, it was all
worth it.
There really should be no argument: different people think of this in
different ways. As long as they are applied consistently and with an eye
to common sense, they all work, unless you want to throw common sense
out the window. Then they work even better!
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:05:59 -0700
From: "Jim Dickinson" <gameknight@msn.com>
Subject: Adventure Idea: Millennium Bug
I am working up thick plotline that will span quite a few adventures, and
wind up in a HUGE one-shot session with some guest players, etc. Anyway,
when the players asked about the adventure, I off-the-cuff replied that it
was going to be called "The Millennium Bug" and gave them only about as much
detail as the previous sentence. Of course, I had NO IDEA what on earth the
adventure was going to be about, but over the past few weeks I have churned
up a few interesting ideas that I thought I would share on the list (I am
pretty sure that my players are not subscribed...) and solicit your feedback
as well as more ideas. Quite probably, your ideas will be even better than
mine!
OK, here goes:
Setting: Portland, Oregon. I decided not to go with the traditional "Bay
Area" or "Metropolis-like" setting to keep it down home, and personal for
the players. I have some interesting reason to keep this in Oregon (though
the adventure may lead them around the globe), but those reasons are below.
Power Level: Everyone is supposed to be a fairly experienced Hero, as this
will become a "save the world" kind of scenario, not unlike "Day of the
Destroyer" or others of that ilk. So about 350+ total points.
Villains involved:
At first I had no idea, but since I had decided on a
save the world plot, I had to choose someone like Dr. Destroyer. However,
as much as I like to run dastardly plots of his masterminding, I decided to
go with Mechanon. This is a villain that too often gets brushed aside as
simply the tough robot-guy that just won't go away (no matter how hard you
pound him into scrap metal, he'll be back) -- more of an annoyance than a
*real* threat. So I decided to give him a little more "Lawnmower Man" and a
dash of Terminator, and even a touch of Mr. "I invented the Internet" Gore.
:-) Rather than just a nutty robot that likes to show off his disdain for
human-kind in loud, grandiose ways, I wanted a Mechanon that would be more
logical, calculating, and devious like those computer games that kick my a$$
everytime I play it (very frustrating!). I want him to flaunt his (I was
created by man, but now I have superceded man) superiority, maybe even
tapping into Nazi-ish sub-connotations (a master race of machines replacing
the frail flesh and blood of man).
But to make things really interesting, let's not have just a major Champions
"mechalomaniac", but let's throw in DEMON for good measure. Suppose that
Mechanon has acquired a fascination for the one thing man can do that
machine can't: Magic. The core of these scenarios relates to this theme.
Overview:
Mechanon, through various means, has courted the evil DEMON and won (at
least some of) them over to the idea of combining technology and magic. He
will supply the technology, they will "enchant" and "possess" it. The deals
run the gauntlet of demonically enhanced blaster rifles to possessed
mecha-tanks. A new angle to "Ghosts in the Machines." Ultimately, Mechanon
seeks ways for him to gain the ability to use magic--so he can tap into yet
another amazing source of power with which to dominate the globe. Perhaps
DEMON is assisting for shallow reasons of personal gain. Perhaps a few
Morbanes have agreed to work with Mechanon in order to gain the advantages
of the best technology, and then to make that technology even more potent
through their own magical enhancements. Maybe they plan to eventually
double-cross Mechanon, or perhaps they underestimate him and his secret plot
to wield their powers.
Heroes will have various opportunities to uncover bits and pieces of this
building relationship between Mechanon and DEMON as they read about,
encounter, and perhaps even thwart some of DEMON's missions. They will
encounter DEMON's new, experimental equipment, that may at first misbehave,
but in later encounters really be a threat as it improves. Mechanon may
seek out other "consultants" of the black arts, some willing and some not,
to speed his grasp of magic. Perhaps there is a Morbane that defects from
that DEMON is doing with Mechanon, and sides with the Heroes. Mechanon may
take up an interest in gathering up ancient artifacts and relics, hoping to
unravel their mysteries (one such relic may actually be used as a vast power
source in a later scenario, read on). More ideas along these lines are
needed. Help!
Anyway, all of these events will point to and build up to a huge ritualistic
ceremony that will be held on New Years Eve, of course. The details here
need to be worked out, as to what the ritual will need to be like, where it
will need to be, and who all is invited (hehehe). You can bet the heroes
will not be getting a cordial invitation in the mail...
Options, Sub-Plots, Main Adventure:
OK, so here is where I have only a bunch of different ideas. Your feedback
is encouraged and any other ideas are more than welcome. Maybe you can make
this even more fascinating of an adventure!
Option 1: Mechanon will achieve his goal of obtaining magical powers
(perhaps by being possess by a real demon from the Netherworld), and all he
needs to do it is a vast power source and the right ritual at the right
moment in time. As midnight approaches, he gathers his little fleshy
minions around him at a Nuclear Power Plant (or some other source of power?
the relic above might be used if Mechanon can figure out how to tap it, but
I am thinking that it could be used later by the Heroes, instead) and
performs the ritual. NOW GET THIS: At midnight, Mechanon malfunctions due
to a Y2K problem that was never resolved because he was so fixated on
learning magic!!! However, this "Millennium Bug" in the flux of the birth
of incredible magic in him does a really weird thing: It throws the world
into synch with his messed-up clock -- Now the world is magically
transformed into 1900. It's still the same world, and still the same
people, but now technology has instantly regressed (TV's don't work, no
cars, etc.), and Mechanon nearly fails completely himself--except that the
magic within him keeps everything going. The heroes, if their origin
includes any tech, or powers obtained from the development of technology, or
an event that occurred in a world not supported by circa 1900 technology
HAVE LOST THEIR POWERS. Any magic users in the group, or martial artists
will probably still have their powers...but most mutants (assuming their
origin relates to some technologically manufactured circumstance) and
gadgeteers have lost the powers are little more than "Pulp Heroes before
their time." In this state, the heroes have to figure out what the hell
happened, and then figure out that they have to "fix" Mechanon's Y2K
problem, and then probably repeat the ritual and find a comparable power
source (1.21 gigawatts!!!!) in order to "reset" everything back to normal.
Option 2: Mechanon has been engineering the whole Y2K crisis from the
get-go. Honestly, there is no Y2K crisis, but Mechanon has "created" one to
facilitate having to "fix" it. Of course, fixing it requires upgrades and
such, so Mechanon can propagate his own code into nearly every PC,
Mainframe, etc. around the world. When Midnight rolls around, he will use
his "magic" to possess every machine from ATMs to Home Computers, and
subjugate mankind to his will. Heroes will have to figure this out BEFORE
he can do it, and then stop him somehow.
Sub-Plot 1, Only In Oregon: Not wanting to wax political, but Oregon passes
some strange laws. How about this one as a sub-plot. Mechanon has adopted
the (nearly Borg) philosophy that perhaps Man can be elevated to his level.
Through various channels he has opened the world's first Body Bank, where
people are paid in cash for donating various body parts (which of course are
advertised to be used for transplants for the needy and maybe even research
science). Donors will receive prosthetics, many of which are somewhat
cybernetic. Of course, this is yet another way for Mechanon to control
mankind, where eventually he may be able to have the prosthetics under his
control. DEMON will also be very interested in this notion of a Body Bank,
especially with the latest cooperations with Mechanon and developments in
possessed equipment. Of course, there will be legal battles and major
controversy. This will get "Abortion Clinic" treatment, but if Mechanon can
keep subverting society by opening more and more Body Banks, he may become
the next Baron Karza (yes this idea is one I have been saving up from the
original Micronauts comic book--great story!).
Sub-Plot 2: Mechanon may have been able to identify member(s) of the Inner
Circle at DEMON. This may be one way he has garnered their cooperation. If
heroes can get this info, maybe they can begin to expose this vile
organization!
* * * *
Well, there are the firstfruits of my brainstorming. What did you like?
What sucked? What other ideas came to mind? I like the idea of stripping
most of the heroes of their powers. This can obviously be very unnerving
for the players, but this is going to be a mature group of people who will
likely take advantage of the role-playing possibilities. I like the idea of
forcing the heroes to have to face Mechanon (the evil wizard) by
infiltrating his tower and overcoming him...then taking him to location X to
invoke ritual Y powered by artifact Z before he wakes up...
I also drool at the possibilities of the ethical and legal debates that
might spawn from a Body Bank opening in downtown Portland. Maybe there will
be bomb threats the heroes will have to respond to, homeless people wanting
to cash in on their whole bodies, students and minors being able to donate
without parental consent because the ACLU gives them that right. Along with
passing out condoms, schools may begin educating students in Prosthetics
education (hey, since you can't stop kids from doing it, at least teach them
the safest parts to donate). Right-wingers will, of course, go nuts over
all this, and before you know it, Jefferson High School becomes the next
Columbine.
So what 5 or 6 decent scenarios can we drag out of these ideas? And what id
eas of yours can you offer to make this even better?
:-) Have fun!
- ----------
Jim Dickinson / The Game Knight http://gameknight.virtualave.net
Check out the Circle of HEROs at http://welcome.to/thecoh
Find me in The FUDGE RPG Club! http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/fudge
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #475
*****************************
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Date: Monday, September 06, 1999 10:48 AM