Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 480

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 1999 12:09 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #480


champ-l-digest Saturday, July 31 1999 Volume 01 : Number 480



In this issue:

Re: I GOT MY BOOK!!!
Re: I GOT MY BOOK!!!
Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
Re: Western?
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Addition To Walking Through Walls
Kazei 5 Poor Editing -- (Was - Re: I GOT MY BOOK!!!)
Re: PC feedback
Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing
Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing
Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing
Re: Western?
Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing
Re: Western?
Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing
Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing
Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing
EoSA Edits
Re: FH D&D Conversions.
Re: FH D&D Conversions.
Re: Adventure Idea: Millennium Bug
Re: Extra Time & Multipower Slots
Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing
Re: Adventure Idea: Millennium Bug
Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing
Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:25:28 -0500
From: "Logan Darklighter" <logand@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: I GOT MY BOOK!!!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Friday, July 30, 1999 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: I GOT MY BOOK!!!


>Uhm, yeah, I'm talking about Kazei 5. Hmm... looks like I'll need to
>create a proof reading guide to the book. At least two characters didn't
>print, even though they are supposed to be there.
>
>Man, I wish I had drawn more stuff for this...


What artwork _did_ make it into the book?

And do you mean that the characters weren't _in_ the book at all? Or that
they were there but wouldn't print out when you printed out the book on your
printer?

- -Logan
- --------------------------------------------------------------
I found myself starting to sound like the Ghost of
Anime Present here:

"Are they...*your* children?..."
"They are the children of North American entertainment,
but they cling to me for protection: The girl is Trendy
Borrowed Pop-Culture Pretensions, and the boy is
Overgenerously-Applied Entertainment Industry
Buzzword-of-the-Week--But of the two, fear the boy, for
he has the mark of doom written upon his brow..."
Derek Janssen
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
web page: www.cyberramp.net/~logand

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:38:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: I GOT MY BOOK!!!

On Fri, 30 Jul 1999, Logan Darklighter wrote:

> >Uhm, yeah, I'm talking about Kazei 5. Hmm... looks like I'll need to
> >create a proof reading guide to the book. At least two characters didn't
> >print, even though they are supposed to be there.
> >
> >Man, I wish I had drawn more stuff for this...

> What artwork _did_ make it into the book?

Your pic of Marta (full body with gun) is used to mark all the page
numbers (but isn't used full size). You two Shion pics made it, as well
as the pic of Kenji (in power armor) and the cover pic (she also made it
inside as a B&W pic. A bunch of my art made it, sort of scattered odly
throughout the book (I don't care for the layout of the art - most of the
pics seem too small and are squeezed to one side or the other). At least
one pic ended up half *off* the page...

> And do you mean that the characters weren't _in_ the book at all? Or that
> they were there but wouldn't print out when you printed out the book on your
> printer?

Okay, so far I've spotted a missing paragraph (with scattered jumbled text
across the page), poorly placed sidebars (that are way to far away from
the text they are referring to), a mis-alinged line of text, two character
sheets that are missing totally (art is there, seperator lines are there,
no text) and the last page chops off some of the Bibliogrpahy.

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"It's not a song about drinking. It's a song about drinking alone."
George Thorogood, about the song "I Drink Alone"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:34:01 -800
From: filksinger@flashmail.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]

From: Scott C. Nolan <nolan@erols.com>


> First of all, when you forward something to the list, please be
considerate
> enough to strip out the headers if they're 25 freaking lines long.

I doubt he ever saw the headers. When that was an email message
originally, they would have been stripped out by his email client.

When he forwarded it, it was turned into an attachment with the
headers attached, but he never saw them. Neither do people whose
machines open the attachment as an email message, like Outlook
Express. To strip the headers in OE, you would have to save the
message to the disk, change it to a text file, open it, strip the headers, and
_then_ forward it.

Or he could simply not forward messages as attachments, but inline instead.
That would be my recommendation, if the email client can handle it. Since his
email client claims to be Netscape in the headers, he should be able to set
it to not forward messages as attachments.

Filksinger
______________________________________________________
Get Your FREE FlashMail Address now at http://www.flashmail.com
It's Free, Easy, & Fun !!!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:44:59 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]

>>Magic Missile
1d6 RKA (15), NND (+1), Does Body (+1), No Range Penalty +1/2
+7 OCV with single attack (14)
1 charge (-2)
Extra Time: 5 minutes (-2)
Delayed Effect (-1/2)
IIF: Spellbook, fragile (-1/2)
Gestures & Incancations (-1/2)
Can only "memorize" after eight hours of sleep (-1/2)<<

The +7 to OCV wouldn't work because the rules require that all levels bought
with a limitation must cost a minimum of 5 points. That would make the base
cost of this spell 87 points; a whopping -9 to the magic skill roll. A
pretty hard roll for a beginning level character.

Also this version with only 1 charge doesn't really simulate the effect of a
stream of missiles shooting out of the hands or fingers.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:08:05 CDT
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]

> >>Magic Missile
> 1d6 RKA (15), NND (+1), Does Body (+1), No Range Penalty +1/2
> +7 OCV with single attack (14)
> 1 charge (-2)
> Extra Time: 5 minutes (-2)
> Delayed Effect (-1/2)
> IIF: Spellbook, fragile (-1/2)
> Gestures & Incancations (-1/2)
> Can only "memorize" after eight hours of sleep (-1/2)<<

personally, we always used "area effect one hex", and added things
like autofire for more powerful casters...


DonM.
- --
========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior ConfigMgt Engineer dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War 27 Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 4-6, 2000 =
= winterwar@prairienet.org http://www.prairienet.org/winterwar/ =
========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:09:41 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Western?

> "A Dollar for the Dead" is what you would get is John Woo made a
> Western.

There are times when I like John Woo movies. They lean on my three
stooges/cartoon violence button pretty well.

But then there are times when I curse John Woo. That's when players in my
heroic games get snippy because their characters can't replicate the feat
in a 100 point base game or within the system unless they have, like, a
20 OCV, which I don't like and won't allow.


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-

http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com/jay/

___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:18:18 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks

> And what is the "jeramie test"?

A bench mark for stats, powers, Damage Classes, skill rolls, power
effects, CVs and so forth that establishes upper limits on what the
characters can do.

Munchkinesque dreadnoughts were rewritten so as not be so invulnerable
and powerful that no other force in the game could touch them.

I got the idea from Hero System Almanac and the BBB, but the mover of the
set of limits was Jeramie, who dared us to adopt these limits.

All the players got to audit each others characters and make sure that we
were all obeying the same power limits. It was painful, but fun, too.
And there after gaming with the characters was fun and not a munchkin
contest.


But that lead to the next problem. Too Many Cooks Syndrome.

The Omega Squad Game had too many GM's who could say "That doesn't work
for me" and too many control freaks trying to make sure that no character
ever violated the Jeramie Test.

That has basically shelved the Omega Squad Game for the time being.

The lesson being to me that a campaign should have one controlling GM and
one creative vision going on.

Oh well, live and learn


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]

Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-

http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com/jay/

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 99 23:37:41
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Addition To Walking Through Walls

On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:54:22 -0400, Chris Hartjes wrote:

>Lisa forgot to mention that the character in question also must be able to
>be hit by attacks *while* walking through non-artificial barriers (if that
>makes sense to you...)
>
>So what we have is this: a character who must be able to walk through
>natural barriers *and* be affected by normal attacks against him while doing
>so.

I'd suggest Desolid for this. The Limitation of being able to be
attacked isn't really worth much if anything as the attacker would have
to be similarly Desolid. Vulnerability to defences within the barrier
isn't a problem - he get's the DEF of the substance and extra BODY
depending upon the distance between him and the impact of the attack.
If there are inbuilt attacks, then the barrier is no longer natural and
he can't pass.
qts

Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:19:16 -0500
From: "Logan Darklighter" <logand@airmail.net>
Subject: Kazei 5 Poor Editing -- (Was - Re: I GOT MY BOOK!!!)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Friday, July 30, 1999 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: I GOT MY BOOK!!!
>> >Man, I wish I had drawn more stuff for this...
>
>> What artwork _did_ make it into the book?
>
>Your pic of Marta (full body with gun) is used to mark all the page
>numbers (but isn't used full size). You two Shion pics made it, as well
>as the pic of Kenji (in power armor) and the cover pic (she also made it
>inside as a B&W pic. A bunch of my art made it, sort of scattered odly
>throughout the book (I don't care for the layout of the art - most of the
>pics seem too small and are squeezed to one side or the other). At least
>one pic ended up half *off* the page...


*SIGH*

If they were going to pick a piece to shink down for the corner/page# bit, I
wish they had chosen Kenji in the power armor or the black & white version
of the cover art. Darnit. Marta needs to be seen at full size.

A pic winding up half _off_ the page?! Yeesh! That's bad. Really bad.

>
>> And do you mean that the characters weren't _in_ the book at all? Or that
>> they were there but wouldn't print out when you printed out the book on
your
>> printer?
>
>Okay, so far I've spotted a missing paragraph (with scattered jumbled text
>across the page), poorly placed sidebars (that are way to far away from
>the text they are referring to), a mis-alinged line of text, two character
>sheets that are missing totally (art is there, seperator lines are there,
>no text) and the last page chops off some of the Bibliogrpahy.


Looks like it's time to get the proof readers out of the dungeon they've
been holding them in for the past 5 years or so.....

This just sounds like no way to run a business of any sort and kep customer
loyalty.

Then again, since it was a cyberpunk book, maybe it suffered the curse of
Cyber Hero --

"Thou Shalt Not Make a Cool Cyberpunk Book Using the Hero System. If thou
tryest, the Gremlins will Come in Great Numbers."

It's a conspiracy. Gotta be.....

- -Logan
- --------------------------------------------------------------
I found myself starting to sound like the Ghost of
Anime Present here:

"Are they...*your* children?..."
"They are the children of North American entertainment,
but they cling to me for protection: The girl is Trendy
Borrowed Pop-Culture Pretensions, and the boy is
Overgenerously-Applied Entertainment Industry
Buzzword-of-the-Week--But of the two, fear the boy, for
he has the mark of doom written upon his brow..."
Derek Janssen
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
web page: www.cyberramp.net/~logand

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 07:16:18 +0800
From: Allan Dunbar <adunbar@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: PC feedback

All the time.
I think Aaron Allston said it right. One of the best things a player can
say is "Wouldn't it be cool if..."
Or words to that effect.

Most of the time I ask if they have any idea what is going on, but for the
most part, I tend to throw the plotline at them and just listen to their
discussion. Quite a few times, the players interpretation of what I
intended is much cooler than what I came up with, and I make changes. And I
take notes about their discussions.

However, at the moment I am only playing, not GMing, having suffered from
that disease called Lackus Motivationus.


At 11:42 30/07/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>GM's, do you ever look for feedback from your players to make sure
>everyone's having a good time? What kind of questions do you ask and what
>kind of feedback do you find most useful?
>
>Brian Wawrow
>Financial Models Company
>bwawrow@fmco.com
>(905) 212 - 3055
>
>There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
>your philosophy.
> -Bill Shakespeare
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:00:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing

On Fri, 30 Jul 1999, Logan Darklighter wrote:

> >Your pic of Marta (full body with gun) is used to mark all the page
> >numbers (but isn't used full size). You two Shion pics made it, as well
> >as the pic of Kenji (in power armor) and the cover pic (she also made it
> >inside as a B&W pic. A bunch of my art made it, sort of scattered odly
> >throughout the book (I don't care for the layout of the art - most of the
> >pics seem too small and are squeezed to one side or the other). At least
> >one pic ended up half *off* the page...
>
> *SIGH*
>
> If they were going to pick a piece to shink down for the corner/page# bit, I
> wish they had chosen Kenji in the power armor or the black & white version
> of the cover art. Darnit. Marta needs to be seen at full size.

I sent them the kanji for Kazei 5, but that didn't look to good. They did
use the face shot of marta you did, although this looks like the pencil
sketch and not the ink pic.

> A pic winding up half _off_ the page?! Yeesh! That's bad. Really bad.

Yeah, it looks pretty poor.

> >Okay, so far I've spotted a missing paragraph (with scattered jumbled text
> >across the page), poorly placed sidebars (that are way to far away from
> >the text they are referring to), a mis-alinged line of text, two character
> >sheets that are missing totally (art is there, seperator lines are there,
> >no text) and the last page chops off some of the Bibliogrpahy.
>
> Looks like it's time to get the proof readers out of the dungeon they've
> been holding them in for the past 5 years or so.....

I wish I had seen it before it went in for the final okay. I'm guessing
I'll need to make up an errata file. Maybe something to put in Digital
Hero.

> This just sounds like no way to run a business of any sort and kep customer
> loyalty.

I have very mixed feelings. Mainly I'm peeved that I spent all this time
developing the material and there are two pages of missing text. I mean
how do you not realize you've dropped two whole pages of text?

> Then again, since it was a cyberpunk book, maybe it suffered the curse of
> Cyber Hero --
>
> "Thou Shalt Not Make a Cool Cyberpunk Book Using the Hero System. If thou
> tryest, the Gremlins will Come in Great Numbers."
>
> It's a conspiracy. Gotta be.....

I'll call Scully and Mulder.

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"You are about 10% as cool as you think you are...
and if you live to be a million years old,
you will *never* be as cool as Chuck Berry."

Henry Rollins

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:08:29 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]

>>That's the wonderful thing about Hero....if it doesn't make sense, change
the rules. why the -9 (1/10 pts I know)...why not 1/15 or 1/20? Do what
works for your campaign as long as it's consistant.<

I have no problem changing rule. Heck, I have a 30 page booklet that I give
all my new players that lists all of the powers, skills, and various rules
changes, but there still has to be a certain play balance to the game.

Sure I could let all of my 125 point FH characters throw 90 point spells
(which is more active points than I allow my beginning Champions characters)
with only a -4 or -5 to the magic roll, but then I am doing a disservice to
all the players that chose to not play wizards. Most of the play balance
rules are there for a reason, and those are the rules I chose to not modify
heavily.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:04:46 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing

At 12:00 AM 7/31/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>Cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Subject: Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing
>
>> A pic winding up half _off_ the page?! Yeesh! That's bad. Really bad.
>
>Yeah, it looks pretty poor.
>
>> >Okay, so far I've spotted a missing paragraph (with scattered jumbled text
>> >across the page), poorly placed sidebars (that are way to far away from
>> >the text they are referring to), a mis-alinged line of text, two character
>> >sheets that are missing totally (art is there, seperator lines are there,
>> >no text) and the last page chops off some of the Bibliogrpahy.
>>
>> Looks like it's time to get the proof readers out of the dungeon they've
>> been holding them in for the past 5 years or so.....
>
>I wish I had seen it before it went in for the final okay. I'm guessing
>I'll need to make up an errata file. Maybe something to put in Digital
>Hero.
>
>> This just sounds like no way to run a business of any sort and kep customer
>> loyalty.
>
>I have very mixed feelings. Mainly I'm peeved that I spent all this time
>developing the material and there are two pages of missing text. I mean
>how do you not realize you've dropped two whole pages of text?

Who's the editor, anyway?
(Please tell me it's not Bruce Harlick.... If Bruce did work this back,
I'll be horribly disillusioned, not to mention extremely worried about how
TUV is going to turn out!)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:48:36 -0400
From: Chris Hartjes <chartjes@littlehart.net>
Subject: Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing

Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> Who's the editor, anyway?
> (Please tell me it's not Bruce Harlick.... If Bruce did work this back,
> I'll be horribly disillusioned, not to mention extremely worried about how
> TUV is going to turn out!)

My sister Lisa has been waiting what seems like forever to hear *anything* about how
the editing is going on The Kandris Seal. Things like this don't make me feel very
good about putting together my own material for submission to Hero for future
projects.

Chris Hartjes

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:50:55 EDT
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Western?

>> My solution to this would be to run it as a High Western. The bad
guys
>> might get gunned down mercilessly and allowed to bleed to death, but
when
>> the PCs get hit they're only Hurt Real Bad. With time, they'll heal.
>> :-]
>
>
>yup-yup. No hero ever dies ina Western unless it's at the Alamo or
>something. Other wise they get shot in the arms... a lot.

Not Western, but wasn't there a Dick Tracy parody where, after being shot
in the shoulder several thousand times, he finally developed lead
poisoning and died?

Leah

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:01:01 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing

>>Bob Greenwade wrote:<<
>>> Who's the editor, anyway? (Please tell me it's not Bruce Harlick....
If Bruce did work this back, I'll be horribly disillusioned, not to mention
extremely worried about how TUV is going to turn out!)<<<

>>My sister Lisa has been waiting what seems like forever to hear *anything*
about how the editing is going on The Kandris Seal. Things like this don't
make me feel very good about putting together my own material for submission
to Hero for future projects.<<

I'm just curious, are any of the people on the list interested in donating
there time to help Hero edit some of their projects? The tricky part is, I
mean without pay. Maybe we would get a free copy of the product when it is
completed. That wouldn't cost Hero to much money and could be beneficial to
them.

I was thinking maybe 10 or 15 of us could form a new "Hero Auxiliary Corp".
Hero could send us a product, the Corp would discuss, proof and edit the
project (checking for consistency, point equation, logistics, etc.) send it
back to Hero and then they could put it into a book, disk, or whatever
medium they choose.

I know that I would be willing to help for nothing more than a free copy of
the product. A short while back, GRG put Enemies of San Angelo on their
list and asked the members for assistance. Of course for some reason they
chose not to read the dozens of email corrections and implement them in the
new book, but it was a first step.

I would think that a small group of dedicated people could get quite a bit
done. This would save Hero time, money, and the embarrassment of putting
out a poorly edited or packaged product.

Just a thought.

Mitchel Santorineos
ICQ# 22259362

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:20:02 EDT
From: WyldWsel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Western?

In a message dated 7/30/99 2:07:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jayphailey@juno.com writes:

<< Then it's a matter of the GM carefully tuning the lethality ratio to
provide a credible threat, while making the death of a PC rare enough so
that it's a real event and not just "oops! There goes another one!" >>

How ever any PC wearing a red shirt has voluntarily turned the red
leathality dial to "just shoot me now"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:37:47 -0700
From: James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com>
Subject: Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing

Let's not get too grumpy about this yet. It is softcopy, errors could
have crept in after editing. As for Mr. Harlick, well, it's hard doing
an editor's job when you're the only full time employee (if that's still
true): so many jobs, so little time. Maybe having a group of volunteers
to help out wouldn't be so bad, though I'm sure there are legalities
that would have to be addressed in such an arrangement.

James

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:39:47 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing

At 10:01 PM 7/30/1999 -0500, Mitchel Santorineos wrote:
>
>I'm just curious, are any of the people on the list interested in donating
>there time to help Hero edit some of their projects? The tricky part is, I
>mean without pay. Maybe we would get a free copy of the product when it is
>completed.
>
>I was thinking maybe 10 or 15 of us could form a new "Hero Auxiliary Corp".
>Hero could send us a product, the Corp would discuss, proof and edit the
>project (checking for consistency, point equation, logistics, etc.) send it
>back to Hero and then they could put it into a book, disk, or whatever
>medium they choose.

Speaking as someone who has done (and is currently doing) pretty much what
you describe -- not for Hero Games, but for an individual author writing
Hero products -- I agree with you in theory. I flatter myself that I've
been helpful in pointing out scores of simple typos, grammatical errors a
spell-checker isn't sophisticated enough to catch, and maybe once in a
while an inconsistency (i.e., a newly-introduced Power Limitation is valued
at -1/4 on page 30, and at -1/2 on page 47.)

However, it sounds to me like most of the problems with the Kazei 5 book
weren't proofreading errors, but typesetting or printing errors. The
Auxiliary Corps you propose would almost certainly be seeing the
manuscripts in their raw, unformatted state, and wouldn't be able to catch
the types of errors Kazei 5 apparently suffers from, because the errors
would not exist until after the manuscripts had been passed back to Hero.

James, you are correct to anticipate legal issues, but a standard
non-disclosure agreement should caver it all nicely.

I share your disappointment that feedback was sought on Enemies of San
ANgelo and then apparently ignored as far as error-correction is concerned.
I suspect what was actually being solicited at that point was a round of
[deserved] applause. And to be fair, I haven't seen the final EoSA
product. Maybe some of the errors /were/ corrected before printing. I
think I'll wait for the Second Printing just the same.

Damon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:13:03 EDT
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing

In a message dated 7/30/99 5:00:35 PM, susano@dedaana.otd.com writes:

>I wish I had seen it before it went in for the final okay. I'm guessing
>I'll need to make up an errata file. Maybe something to put in Digital
>Hero.

Ah, here is one of the nice features of the electronic book... make the=20
corrections, and the book is now version 1.1, and all the inventory is=20
changed to reflect that. No need for a separate errata sheet.

=97 Steve Peterson, Hero Games=20

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:45:38 EDT
From: GoldRushG@aol.com
Subject: EoSA Edits

I haven't been following the HML closely of late, but I undestand there are
some complaints about edit comments and suggested changes that didn't make it
into the book. I would like to address those directly. I'm eating some
serious crow here, so please bear with me and have pity on the publisher. ;)

When we laid out Enemies of San Angelo, we used the wrong file. We had to
dump everything and start over. Well, unfortunately the wrong file was used
again. It wasn't caught until after the book had shipped and somebody raised
some points about it with me in private e-mail. :/ Sheer stupidity or
incompetence? Perhaps. Whatever you want to call it I'll have to eat it.

I just wanted those folks here to know that your comments were not ignored.
Far from it. We do value your input. Why else would we basically release the
entire manuscript prior to publication?

In any case, if anyone would like to send me their input about the book so
that we can make the needed corrections, please do (by private e-mail). I
want to collect all of the corrections and feedback to update the book.

Trying earnestly to please our customers and fans,

Mark @ GRG

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:40:32 +0800
From: GAZZA <gazza@wantree.com.au>
Subject: Re: FH D&D Conversions.

Jesse Thomas wrote:
>
> Thu, 29 Jul 1999 GAZZA <gazza@wantree.com.au> wrote:
>
> >The overall topic of this posting is "WHY??!!!"
>
> Character attachment. Here's the scenario:
>
> You're the GM of a long-running D&D campaign. All your players have
> level 9+ characters that they've been playing for months or years.
> They have grown attached to these characters, and have a lot invested
> in the abilities that they have acquired, especially their relative
> abilities. Now, you want to convert over to this cool new system.
> It's got all these great features, like increased flexibility, and
> greater control over character development. You're really excited
> about the potential, and you tell your players the good news! No
> longer will they have to be restricted by artificial class and level
> limits! No longer will magic users be required to die rather than
> don armor or swing a sword! Isn't this great?!
>
> You are answered by the sound of crickets chirping. Finally, one of
> your players recovers from his shock and asks, "Does this mean I
> can't be a 15th level Enchanter any more?"

Great. So apparently these players aren't thrilled with the idea of
getting rid of classes and levels. Fine - stick with D&D.

My intention is not to rubbish D&D here. Yes, yes - I did call classes
and levels "silly" (and I stand by it) but that's just MHO; I'm
certainly not going to dictate that everyone shares it.

My point is that IF you like classes and levels then why change to
something without them? Why try to force a square peg into a round
hole?

It's quite possible to convert a "15th level Enchanter" into something
very similar in HERO - the system is, after all, universal. I'm
certainly not suggesting that they should scrap their old characters
and start all over again.

But presumably, if the intention is made to switch, then the GM (at
least) thinks that something in the new system is better than the
old system.

We're comparing FH and D&D here, right? OK - so what feature of FH is
most likely to be thought of as superior to D&D?

Combat? Well, there is STUN and lethal/nonlethal weapons in HERO.
But combat is a lot more complicated as well - if you're stuck
with the sort of players that are likely to resist this sort of
change, a more complicated combat system isn't likely to win them
over.

Magic? Maybe. I personally am not a big fan of the "use it and lose
it" philosophy of D&D spells. But in any case it IS possible to
simulate this in HERO if you want to, and without that much trouble.

Classes and Levels seem the most likely reason someone would want to
change in the first place. So why bring them along with you?
(snip!)
- --
GAZZA
"To know others is wisdom.
To know one's self is enlightenment."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 02:59:25 -0500
From: Daniel <drake01@flash.net>
Subject: Re: FH D&D Conversions.

Personaly I've let my players keep their characters. I colelct them,
convert them myself (so it at least appears fair if it isn't) and let them
run their D&D characters converted over. After all FH has a system for this
(may not be the best but heck, it works). Then as they explore this new FH
world and interact with the wizards who can use swords and fighters who can
use primitive magic, it slowly dawns on them "Hey, can I do that too?" Then
when it's time for the next generation of heroes (Dathomir the Enchanter's
son perhaps?) they have an idea of the world and the characters are more
open ended

Since 1993 I've done that with 5 different groups, none of them suspected
a thing...hehehehe...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 99 00:19:34
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Adventure Idea: Millennium Bug

On Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:05:59 -0700, Jim Dickinson wrote:

<megasnip>

>Option 1: Mechanon will achieve his goal of obtaining magical powers

<snip>

> Now the world is magically
>transformed into 1900. It's still the same world, and still the same
>people, but now technology has instantly regressed (TV's don't work, no
>cars, etc.), and Mechanon nearly fails completely himself--except that the
>magic within him keeps everything going. The heroes, if their origin
>includes any tech, or powers obtained from the development of technology, or
>an event that occurred in a world not supported by circa 1900 technology
>HAVE LOST THEIR POWERS. Any magic users in the group, or martial artists
>will probably still have their powers...but most mutants (assuming their
>origin relates to some technologically manufactured circumstance) and
>gadgeteers have lost the powers are little more than "Pulp Heroes before
>their time." In this state, the heroes have to figure out what the hell
>happened, and then figure out that they have to "fix" Mechanon's Y2K
>problem, and then probably repeat the ritual and find a comparable power
>source (1.21 gigawatts!!!!) in order to "reset" everything back to normal.

Too easy - a solar furnace will suffice.


>Option 2: Mechanon has been engineering the whole Y2K crisis from the
>get-go. Honestly, there is no Y2K crisis, but Mechanon has "created" one to
>facilitate having to "fix" it. Of course, fixing it requires upgrades and
>such, so Mechanon can propagate his own code into nearly every PC,
>Mainframe, etc. around the world. When Midnight rolls around, he will use
>his "magic" to possess every machine from ATMs to Home Computers, and
>subjugate mankind to his will. Heroes will have to figure this out BEFORE
>he can do it, and then stop him somehow.

Much better.

>Sub-Plot 1, Only In Oregon: Not wanting to wax political, but Oregon passes
>some strange laws. How about this one as a sub-plot. Mechanon has adopted
>the (nearly Borg) philosophy that perhaps Man can be elevated to his level.
>Through various channels he has opened the world's first Body Bank, where
>people are paid in cash for donating various body parts (which of course are
>advertised to be used for transplants for the needy and maybe even research
>science).

This wouldn't wash.

>Sub-Plot 2: Mechanon may have been able to identify member(s) of the Inner
>Circle at DEMON. This may be one way he has garnered their cooperation. If
>heroes can get this info, maybe they can begin to expose this vile
>organization!

How about:

Option 3: Star Trek: The Motion Picture. The best bet is for Mechanon
to succeed so he gets elevated to another plane and thus can ony
intervene indirectly.

Or

Option 3a: The Opposition. Mechanon isn't bad; he just doesn't
appreciate the value of biologic organisms. So the heroes have to
subtly disrupt the Ritual so that an angel can merge with Mechanon. An
interesting outcome would be if *both* an angel and a demon were to
possess him.


qts

Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 99 00:22:53
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Extra Time & Multipower Slots

On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:59:39 -0700, Mr. Cup O. Slaw wrote:

> If you have a multipower slot that has the limitation Extra Time,
>does this stop you from using your other slots until the proper amount
>of time has elapsed, or can you use your other slots until the other
>power is "ready" ??
> For example, if I have a 30 pt. pool with a 6d6 EB (Fireball spell
>or something) that requires Extra Time: 1 Turn, can I have another slot
>using 30 pts (15/15 FF or something) running until the 6d6 EB is
>ready?? Or, in this particular example, is the mage a sitting duck
>until one turn has passed?

Sitting duck.
qts

Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 08:14:23 -0400
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
Subject: Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing

>>I wish I had seen it before it went in for the final okay. I'm guessing
>>I'll need to make up an errata file. Maybe something to put in Digital
>>Hero.
>
>Ah, here is one of the nice features of the electronic book... make the
>corrections, and the book is now version 1.1, and all the inventory is
>changed to reflect that. No need for a separate errata sheet.
>
> Steve Peterson, Hero Games

Has that been done? Can we go back and download a new copy?

I was hoping to hear something ike this. :-)

~ Mike

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 08:59:17 -0700
From: "Jim Dickinson" <gameknight@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Adventure Idea: Millennium Bug

> >Sub-Plot 1, Only In Oregon: Not wanting to wax political, but Oregon
passes
> >some strange laws. How about this one as a sub-plot. Mechanon has
adopted
> >the (nearly Borg) philosophy that perhaps Man can be elevated to his
level.
> >Through various channels he has opened the world's first Body Bank, where
> >people are paid in cash for donating various body parts (which of course
are
> >advertised to be used for transplants for the needy and maybe even
research
> >science).
>
> This wouldn't wash.

OK, what if the Body Banks were offered to the rich? Is there anything in
NBA rules that says players can't be cybernetically enhanced? What if
cybernetic prosthetics were only sold to the rishest people...and then
eventually, some rich person might offer a grant of some sort to fund giving
the poor a chance at enhancements?

> Option 3: Star Trek: The Motion Picture. The best bet is for Mechanon
> to succeed so he gets elevated to another plane and thus can ony
> intervene indirectly.

I hated that movie... :-p

> Option 3a: The Opposition. Mechanon isn't bad; he just doesn't
> appreciate the value of biologic organisms. So the heroes have to
> subtly disrupt the Ritual so that an angel can merge with Mechanon. An
> interesting outcome would be if *both* an angel and a demon were to
> possess him.

This is interesting.
Or maybe he could get possessed and the heroes would have to get help to
perform an exorcism on him...maybe the best that could be done would be to
have an angel possess him also. I can see it now. Mechanon with multiple
personalities...

Thanks for the feedback!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:07:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing

On Sat, 31 Jul 1999 HeroGames@aol.com wrote:

> Ah, here is one of the nice features of the electronic book... make the
> corrections, and the book is now version 1.1, and all the inventory is
> changed to reflect that. No need for a separate errata sheet.

I have already contact Bruce Harlick about doing this.

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"Put it this way -- remember Gozer? This guy makes
Gozer look like Little Mary Sunshine."

Winston, from _The Real Ghostbusters_ episode
"Collect-Call of Cthulhu"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:08:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Kazei 5 Poor Editing

On Fri, 30 Jul 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:

> Who's the editor, anyway?
> (Please tell me it's not Bruce Harlick.... If Bruce did work this back,
> I'll be horribly disillusioned, not to mention extremely worried about how
> TUV is going to turn out!)

Editing was done by Patrick Bradley, who also did the page layout.

- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html

"Put it this way -- remember Gozer? This guy makes
Gozer look like Little Mary Sunshine."

Winston, from _The Real Ghostbusters_ episode
"Collect-Call of Cthulhu"

------------------------------

End of champ-l-digest V1 #480
*****************************


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