Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 49

Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 1998 12:34 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #49

champ-l-digest Sunday, November 22 1998 Volume 01 : Number 049



In this issue:

Re: Ultimate Books (was Re: Computers)
Re: Telekinetic Question
Re: Professional Books (was Ultimate Books)
Re: Ultimate Books (was Re: Computers)
Re: Professional Books (was Ultimate Books)
Re: Ultimate Books (was Re: Computers)
Re: Ultimate Books
Re: Professional Books (was Ultimate Books)
Re: CHAR: Last Action Heroine
Fantasy Hero 2.5?
Re: CHAR: Last Action Heroine
Re: Fantasy Hero 2.5?
Creation Workshop
Re: Fantasy Hero 2.5?
Re: Ultimate Books (was Re: Computers)

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Date: 21 Nov 1998 00:22:05 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Books (was Re: Computers)

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"BB" == Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net> writes:

BB> By your logic: read David Eddings, J.R.R. Tolkien, or Robert Jordan.

I'd pass on Jordan. The previous two books in the "Waste of Time" (not
counting the one that recently hit the shelves) are about 1200 pages of
build-up to a "there's no way he could have survived that" ending (if it
can be called that).

Edding's "Belgariad" was a fun read. The "Mallorean" is, well, it's the
Belgariad all over again.

Personaly, I'm fond of David Drake's fantasy. Yes, he *DOES* write high
fantasy, and I think he is one of the best at it today. Shame he doesn't
write more; but then, that is probably a good thing.

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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
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Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:15:13 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: Telekinetic Question

> > As described in the rules, TK actually works like a big immaterial hand than
> > anything else, and as such should be escapeable as for any other Strength
> > effect.
>
> I think I could make a case for either situation. It comes down to a
> question of SFX.

No, not really.

The rules are pretty clear on this case. Therefore, if SFX
dictate a different effect, you need to use a different mechanic.

While the Hero System can model just about any SFX, you do have to
choose the proper mechanic.



-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:23:21 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: Professional Books (was Ultimate Books)

> I think that, generally without realizing it, most folks have pretty
> close to the same view. How many of us who own Enemies Assemble! use all
> five of the teams presented therein? How many only use one or two, and
> consider the book wasted money? How many own and like Enemies For Hire,
> but only use a half-dozen or so of the characters in those pages?
> How many of the rules in TUMA does any of us actually use? How many of
> the martial arts styles?

And how many keep hoping for another chance to attempt to use some
of these newer works? And I just bought 7 more.


-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 06:36:05 -0600
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Books (was Re: Computers)

At 12:22 AM 11/21/98 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>I'd pass on Jordan. The previous two books in the "Waste of Time" (not
>counting the one that recently hit the shelves) are about 1200 pages of
>build-up to a "there's no way he could have survived that" ending (if it
>can be called that).

I didn't actually get that far. :/ It was fun for a while trying to count up
the number of WoT/Dune analogies, but after a while you run out of END (even
if you have a Reserve).

>Edding's "Belgariad" was a fun read. The "Mallorean" is, well, it's the
>Belgariad all over again.

Actually, I think the Mallorean is a superior read to the Belgariad,
primarily because we get to see more of Garion as a /hero/, rather than just
a trump card to be shuffled around by the Powers That Be who happen to be
his relatives. And the Elenium (completely unrelated series) is better yet
(at least until the "oh, crap, here's Eriond again" ending).

>Personaly, I'm fond of David Drake's fantasy. Yes, he *DOES* write high
>fantasy, and I think he is one of the best at it today. Shame he doesn't
>write more; but then, that is probably a good thing.

Haven't found any Drake fantasy yet, tho I loved _Birds of Prey_. I'd also
recommend Harry Turtledove's stuff -- pretty downer at times, but what a ride!

==
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:06:45 EST
From: SteveL1979@aol.com
Subject: Re: Professional Books (was Ultimate Books)

In a message dated 98-11-20 21:51:18 EST, bob.greenwade@klock.com writes:

<< You only have *one* "lawyer" question? How about: >>

OK, Bob, now I see why you want a lawyers sourcebook. :) Heck, you just
want to go to law school without having to pay tens of thousands of dollars.
:)

Seriously, though, you can find basic answers to a lot of your questions in
the book, LAW FOR DUMMIES (or Idiots, whichever, I don't recall). It covers a
lot of those issues in a broad, multi-state sort of approach. It won't tell
you what goes into opening and closing statements, but it will talk about
things like will validity, filing suits, and so on.
Don't rely on it for spot-on legal advice for particular situations, but it
does provide good, general, gaming-level-interest info.

Steve Long

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:19:33 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Books (was Re: Computers)

> >Edding's "Belgariad" was a fun read. The "Mallorean" is, well, it's the
> >Belgariad all over again.
>
> Actually, I think the Mallorean is a superior read to the Belgariad,
> primarily because we get to see more of Garion as a /hero/, rather than just
> a trump card to be shuffled around by the Powers That Be who happen to be
> his relatives. And the Elenium (completely unrelated series) is better yet
> (at least until the "oh, crap, here's Eriond again" ending).

I've found the greatness of Edding to be in the enjoyment you get
in reading the same story over again. All4 of his series are, really,
quite similar. It kinda reminds me of seeing the similarities and
parallels in so many mythologies. Anyway, I have read all of Eddings and
will reread all of Eddings for his character interaction.

> Haven't found any Drake fantasy yet, tho I loved _Birds of Prey_. I'd also
> recommend Harry Turtledove's stuff -- pretty downer at times, but what a ride!

Haven't read any of his fantasy, but hi WorldWar series is one of
the few I refuse to finish. His bias against academe and his handling of
certain subplots, not to mention some of his racist comments, completely
turned me off.


-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:37:39 -0500
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Books

I'm with Curt on this one. I know a lot about the real world, and
information is easy to find. As far a gaming goes, there are already a fair
amount of published things on the real world (granted, not Hero), or things
fairly close. I certainly wouldn't pay much if anything, for additional
books along this line.

I'm not keen on characters or organizations, as I can create ones I like
better, but I do like adventure plot lines, and non-real world settings.
Typically, I will modify them to suite my taste, but I am much better at
modifying and improving existing adventures, than I am at creating them.
Most, people are in that boat, though many don't bother to improve
adventures.

~ Mike

- -----Original Message-----
From: Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Ultimate Books


>From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
>
>
><snip>
>>It's NOT wrong. But would you rather spend money on products related to
>>'mundane' / real world information that you can research for yourself or
on
>>the creative stuff like plots / organizations / characters etc. etc. ?
>>
>>Which would you find more use for ?
>
>
>Real world. By a factor of about 5 to 1, I suspect.
>
>For me, at least. You obviously wouldn't.
>
>Filksinger
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 07:28:10 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Professional Books (was Ultimate Books)

At 08:06 AM 11/21/98 EST, SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 98-11-20 21:51:18 EST, bob.greenwade@klock.com writes:
>
><< You only have *one* "lawyer" question? How about: >>
>
> OK, Bob, now I see why you want a lawyers sourcebook. :) Heck, you just
>want to go to law school without having to pay tens of thousands of dollars.
>:)

Actually, that was just what I could think of off the top of my head
that could come up in a scenario, especially one involving a trial. (I'm
still looking forward to running the adventure in my campaign where Merry
Andrew is framed for murder....) Also, those questions are posed from the
player's POV as well as from the GM's; I want this to be as useful for my
wife, whose PC is an attorney with a Perry Mason-like approach, as it is
for me as GM.

> Seriously, though, you can find basic answers to a lot of your questions in
>the book, LAW FOR DUMMIES (or Idiots, whichever, I don't recall). It
covers a
>lot of those issues in a broad, multi-state sort of approach. It won't tell
>you what goes into opening and closing statements, but it will talk about
>things like will validity, filing suits, and so on.
> Don't rely on it for spot-on legal advice for particular situations, but it
>does provide good, general, gaming-level-interest info.

Thanks for the tip. I'll go look for this. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:29:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Last Action Heroine

>humorous, I'll take that into account. :-]
Right, this ain't a terribly tight concept,
more of a quickie. Thanks for the feedback.

> I'd suggest making this "only half damage per wound."
Are you saying a Limited Power, that her wounds only
heal half-way? if so, why?

>> 27c) 10/10 Force Field (Hi-Tech),0 END Persistent,x1 Hard
I guess the force field should be inviso power FX,
and the special FX should be psychic or something besides tech.

>I'm not sure what you're trying to represent here.
the EC represents the effect, kind of like cartoons,
kind of like the old A-Team, of someone that
looks totally normal yet never seems to take damage.
The Regen is because she never takes lasting damage.

>> 13d) Clairsentience (Mutant Powers),"tone & pace of music
>> change accordingly.",Detect,see future,no specifics. only
> The music, as I read it, is an effect rather than a cause.
> music can enable her to get a sense of how the mood of the
And I just realized I forgot to make the Clairsentience Usable
By Others because it's Visible, anyone within 3 hexes or so
can also hear her music.

>>60 MP (Hi-Tech) (90),"Lots o' Weapons",OIF
> 6u 2D6 RKA,"Automatic rifle",17-32
>I'd recommend upgrading the individual slots to OAF
right, good call.

>>1 Stealth 14- (Only when Noise covers music)
>Again, the Limitation doesn't make sense to me.
She is ALWAYS surrounded by mood music. She can't sneak up on
anything except maybe in a crowded downtown, or in a
battlefield. She knows how to be sneaky, but the music
gives her away.

> >4 M Dodge
>Is this any particular style, or just "Generic Action Heroine
> Martial Arts"?
Grace Jones Ass-Kickin Method :)

>>20 Vuln,"Radiation",common,x2 body
>>20 Vuln,"Radiation",common,x2 body
>Why? (And I do assume that the first was supposed to be
>x2 STUN.)
Well I hadn't quite decided whtther the SFX of her
powers and music were magic, psychic, dimensional or what.
But either way, the Rad interacts with the magic around her
badly. Or it irritates her mutations. (She needed the points!)
Or it causes interference with her Force Field.
[right on, one of them should be x2 stun...@#$% hero-maker.]

The underlying character concept is the nigh-indestructible
movie archetype. All wounds are scratches, clothes never
get dirty, big honkin weapons, and the "silly" part:
music always playing that lets you the audience know whats
going on. Only this time, the character can also hear the
music and it also lets her know what's about to happen.
Conceptually it's like Queen Latifah, Grace Jones, Barb Wire,
Wesley Snipes, Angela Basset, etc. all those ideas rolled
into one. Big Armor, Nice Guns, Fast Action, plus Music.

(This is the kind of feedback I wanted on the Transformer B-52)
:(
==
Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:49:34 -0600
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Subject: Fantasy Hero 2.5?

Hi. I saw an advertisment fot Fantasy Hero in the Hero Plus
format that said it was Fantasy Hero 2.5 which makes me wonder if I need
to get it.
I have Fantasy Hero and both of the Fantasy Companion books. I
aslo just picked up Broken Kingdoms, though I haven't got to look at it
yet. Is there a big difference between Fantasy Hero in book form and
Fantasy Hero in the Hero Plus Forman?
Any help from anyone that knows woul be appreciated.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:26:33 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: CHAR: Last Action Heroine

Suggestion as to why Radiation affects her so badly:

In movies, radiation is the equivelent of magic--it transforms small
creatures into honking great monsters, reverts himan beings into
pre-normal states, etc. So let's say when rt radiation hits her, it
triggers certain possible transformations that interfere with her regen,
making her hurt more than normal?

Another idea: since radiation is never treated 'seriously' in action
movies, being his by it brings it hime that she is not in 'movieland,'
thus causing her to act more like a 'normal' human

"'Money doesn't talk--it screams."
--A.J. Benza, HOLLYWOOD MYSTERIES AND SCANDALS
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
An except from the new story "My Worst Break Up" can now be found at
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:15:48 EST
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero 2.5?

In a message dated 11/21/98 9:04:16 AM, redbf@ldd.net writes:

> I have Fantasy Hero and both of the Fantasy Companion books. I
>aslo just picked up Broken Kingdoms, though I haven't got to look at it
>yet. Is there a big difference between Fantasy Hero in book form and
>Fantasy Hero in the Hero Plus Forman?
> Any help from anyone that knows woul be appreciated.

Fantasy Hero 2.5 is the new electronic edition of the book; it adds a few new
things (like a revised weapons list and some rules for using Frameworks with
magic), but mostly it's the same. It's not out yet, but it should be complete
by January.

Steve Peterson, Hero Games

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:24:28 -0600
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Subject: Creation Workshop

I know this isn't exactly on topic and for that I apologize.

I just got the Hero Template for Creation Workshop and am trying to
make up a character with Weapon Familiarity: Common Melee Weapons. I
can't select the Common Melee Weapons group from the skill list as that
just opens it up.
I have tried to select another 1pt familiarity and change it to 2pts
and rename it, but when I do that it has an ! mark by it and gives an
error message.
So, how do I add WF: Common Melee Weapons to my character?

Thanks for the help

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 98 22:42:17
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero 2.5?

On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:15:48 EST, HeroGames@aol.com wrote:

>
>In a message dated 11/21/98 9:04:16 AM, redbf@ldd.net writes:
>
>> I have Fantasy Hero and both of the Fantasy Companion books. I
>>aslo just picked up Broken Kingdoms, though I haven't got to look at it
>>yet. Is there a big difference between Fantasy Hero in book form and
>>Fantasy Hero in the Hero Plus Forman?
>> Any help from anyone that knows woul be appreciated.
>
>Fantasy Hero 2.5 is the new electronic edition of the book; it adds a few new
>things (like a revised weapons list and some rules for using Frameworks with
>magic), but mostly it's the same. It's not out yet, but it should be complete
>by January.

Gimme gimme gimme! By that time I will have been able to pay myself a
nice fat dividend :}
qts

Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:59:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Books (was Re: Computers)

Greetings!

- ---Tracy L Birdine wrote:
>
> Seriously, I don't know whether to say: "You poor man, you have *no* idea
> what you've missed not perusing the various and sundry sourcebooks from
> all gaming companies far and wide", or "What angel did you whack to get
> that kind of a learning ability to work for you?"

I'm not saying I've never looked at sourcebooks, I'm just saying that
I've never found anything in them that was necessary to my games.
Everyone is giving all these examples of questions that they'd like
answered by a sourcebook. My question is "Why bother?"
If you want to say that a "cheesy lawyer" has managed to get a suspect
released or acquitted, just say so. Let your players' imaginations fill in
the sordid details.
Of course, if your plotline depends on your players refuting that
lawyer's methods, then you may have to actually do a little research. This is
what library cards and search engines are for!
So the police have cordoned off a street and are engaged in hostage
negotiations... just say so! Most people have seen at least one movie
describing such a situation. You don't have to do ALL their thinking for them.

The point I'm trying to make here is that, while sourcebooks may be nice
and have all sorts of useful information, they are NOT absolutely necessary to
any game.
Also, a lot of GMs are ignoring a major gaming info resource... their
players' imaginations!

As for my learning ability, I've known for years that I have the type of
mind that absorbs tidbits of trivia like a sponge soaks up water.
If I can ever find a career that exploits such trivia, I'll be a
millionaire!

> As a potential sourcebook author, I have to say: "My feelings are hurt...
> but I'm over it now >sniff<"

There, there... don't take it personally. I ignore Rat, too.

Dale A. Ward
The Trivia Sponge

_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

End of champ-l-digest V1 #49
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