Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 75

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 1998 11:34 AM 
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #75 
 
 
champ-l-digest        Sunday, December 6 1998        Volume 01 : Number 075 
 
 
 
In this issue: 
 
    Re: Independent Limitation 
    Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds 
    Re: Independent Limitation 
    Re: Independent non-Focused powers... 
    Re: Double messages 
    Re: Independent Limitation 
    Re: Independent Limitation 
    Re: Independent Limitation 
    Re: Magic Lock 
    Re: Magic Lock 
    Forgot something... 
    Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS 
    Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds 
    Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds 
    Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds 
    Re: CHAR: Piccolo 
    Re: EMP 
    Re: some dumb questions for the list. 
    Re: Magic Lock 
    Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds 
    Re: Independent Limitation 
    Re: Independent Limitation 
    Re: Independent Limitation 
    Re: Stealing Foci (was Re: Independent Limitation) 
    Re: An Array Type Question 
    Alouette 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 12:50:44 -0800 
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to> 
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation 
 
> I agree that the danger must be there.  You shouldn't have to consider 
> yourself ruthless, though.  A player should be aware of the possible 
> consequences of taking Independent and be willing to live with them, or he 
> shouldn't take it in the first place. 
 
 
That depends on how you define "ruthless". I was thinking of it as 
basically being willing to hurt someone without guilt. In this case, 
it's the right thing to do, but it is still ruthless. I'm not sure if 
that matches the dictionary definition of the word, or common usage, 
however. 
 
JAJ, GP 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 13:18:38 -0800 
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to> 
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds 
 
> As long as you look the other way and don't let the damage accumulate, it's 
> not that big a deal.  After all, anything that can do 90 Body is an 
> incredibly powerful attack. 
 
Hmm, I like it. Simple, elegant, allows the Death Star. I will consider 
it. 
 
However, the write-ups for nuclear bombs that I have seen are 20 dice 
and such, and could conceivably blow up a planet with only 90 body. Not 
that I use them that way, mind you. "I am become Death..." 
 
JAJ, GP 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 13:02:12 -0800 
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to> 
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation 
 
>    Why indefinitely?  Why does it have to be for an indefinite period, or 
> on a permanent basis? 
 
"Indefinitely" I think of as long term, you don't know when it will come 
back. Is that incorrect? And, yes, I accept that other things make it 
worth the -2. 
 
>    As I say, the larger the item (in terms of character points), the more 
> crippled the character becomes without it, and the less advisable it would 
> be to take it away on a truly temporary basis.  Of course, for the same 
> reason, it also becomes less advisable to take the Independent Limitation 
> in the first place. 
 
Uhm, I'll assume you mean a "truly permanent basic". And as you say, it 
becomes inappropriate with large items. 
 
>    Again, I say that it doesn't *necessarily* have to be permanent in order 
> to have meaning.  It just has to be long enough to inconvenience the 
> character in a way that he wouldn't be inconvenienced if he could just 
> re-spend the points. 
 
It doesn't necessarily need to be permanent: however, it does usually 
need to be long term enough to, as you have said previously, really 
cripple the character. This is, however, undesirable in many games, if 
not most, and certainly in the majority of superhero games. 
 
It can die, soon, I hope. 
 
JAJ, GP 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 13:13:55 -0800 
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to> 
Subject: Re: Independent non-Focused powers... 
 
> *nod* 
> >From what I gather from my limited reading of the comics in question, these 
> powers in constant danger of being stolen; there are several villains 
> devoted to taking them on for themselves. Without the Witchblade power, 
> Sara Pezzini goes back to being a 75-point cop (and accidental underwear 
> model). 
 
Ah, I didn't know that aspect of the character. Generally, I'd call it a 
normal superpower and the character has Hunteds trying to take the power 
from them. Only if there is some real chance of losing all the powers at 
some point in the game (perhaps to recover them at a later date, but 
loses them long enough to be painful to the -2 extent) would it likely 
be Independent. From what I know of her, she wouldn't be protective of 
or hide the power away, so behavior change is not a consideration: the 
possibility of losing the powers, then, is the most obvious drawback to 
the limitation. There may be others. 
 
For example, Dr. Doom once stole the Silver Surfer's powers, but they 
were quickly returned. That would not be Independent. Tony Stark has 
given the armor to others at times: it is not so much Independent as a 
"radiation accident" for the Iron Man character that says someone else 
is him. If this is the extent to which she would ever lose the power, 
it's likely not to be Independent. 
 
> I see what you're getting at; something like the historical series, where 
> they show the various "holders" of the power through the centuries. 
 
Yeah, the only exposure I've had to Witchblade was the Medieval version, 
so that colored my response. 
JAJ, GP 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:14:05 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Double messages 
 
>Is anyone else getting double messages? 
 
For some posts I've gotten triple ones. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 05:40:11 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation 
 
>At 07:39 AM 12/4/98 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote: 
>>>   If an Unbreakable Focus is stolen or destroyed, it *can* be replaced 
>>>with an expenditure of the same character points.  See BBB, p. 106, fifth 
>>>paragraph, fourth sentence: 
>>>   "The GM should be careful with an Unbreakable Focus; if he destroys it, 
>>>the character should have some way (a quest, prehaps?) to get it remade." 
>> 
>>So in practice, if you _aren't_ going to actually destroy or hide the focus 
>>indefinitely, then it's no different at all. 
> 
>   Why indefinitely?  Why does it have to be for an indefinite period, or 
>on a permanent basis? 
 
Because you can hide a normal focus for a while if that's your want, and if 
it's Unbreakable, they still need to go try to find it.  Otherwise that 
extra -2 Limitation isn't doing anything a normal Focus doesn. 
 
>   If someone steals a character's non-Independent Ring if Invisibility, 
>the character points stay with the character.  The player may choose to 
>leave the points in that Focus for later retrieval, or spend them 
>elsewhere.  He can even use the points to make a new Ring of Invisibility 
 
Not necessarily immediately.  That's one reason they bother with the 
Indestructable Focus folderol at all.  The trade off with a 
non-Indestructable Focus is that you can't just 'wave your hand' and get the 
points back.  You don't lose them permanantly like with an Independent 
Focus, but you can't just go build another one.  If you could, making it 
Indestructable would be a clear advantage. 
 
>>>   If an Independent Focus is gone, so are the character points; none of 
>>>the above options are available, except for the last (trying to get it 
>>>back). 
>> 
>>And the point is, unless the GM is actually willing to take away 
>>permantantly the focus, none of this means a thing.  And if he is willing, 
>>he cripples the character.  This is what I've said from the start of this 
>>discussion. 
> 
>   Again, I say that it doesn't *necessarily* have to be permanent in order 
>to have meaning.  It just has to be long enough to inconvenience the 
>character in a way that he wouldn't be inconvenienced if he could just 
>re-spend the points. 
 
And as I see it, that's already embodied in at least the Indestructible 
Focus anyway; the whole point with them is they can't be destroyed, but they 
can't be easily replaced, either.  Otherwise why treat the two case 
(Breakable and Indestructable) as break-even cases? 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 12:46:51 -0800 
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to> 
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation 
 
> Those other possibilities are just as much a part of the limitation as 
> losing the power is. 
 
Uhm, you'll notice, that's what I said. Other possibilities make it 
worth a -2. They do not involve the fact that the item (speaking only of 
Foci: other Independent powers work fine) is of seperate points: they 
involve various other things that are only indirectly related to it. 
That's all I meant: that they aren't explicitely part of the Limitation, 
but still make it worth the bonus. 
 
> This isn't about what the GM wants it is about what the player wants.   
 
It's always about what they both want: what kind of game the GM wants to 
run, what kind of game the player wants to play in. As a GM, I would not 
require Independent and the potential permanent loss of points for a 
character to be able to go on a quest to recover their unique doohickey. 
As a player, I would not be upset with a GM who took away a unique 
doohickey that I didn't take Independent on, as long as it comes back in 
a reasonable time frame or something else interesting is planned. In the 
case of this type of adventure, Independent is not necessary to pull it 
off: you don't have to risk permanent loss. That's all I'm saying. 
 
> I 
> have a battlesuit character.  That character used to have his battlesuit 
> bought as a focus.  If it ever got taken away, I would have had him try to 
> get home get a replacement and then go after the original, just cuz it was 
> miiine.  If it had been built Independent I would have had to go after it 
> butt nekkid, well not really.   
 
The point is: you would have had him try. You may or may not succeed, 
but you have that option, and in the case of a superhero game it is a 
very reasonable option. But you could fail and have to go nekid anyway, 
you don't need Independent for that to happen to you. Again, that's all 
I'm saying: that Independent is not necessary for this kind of an 
adventure. Which I'm sure you agree with. 
 
I have another character who has a bow as a 
> focus.  If someone took that bow he would go buy/make another one, forget 
> going after the original one.  If that bow was Independent, a hunting for 
> bow I would go.  There is a difference.  It may be more subtle than other 
> differences but it is still a difference.  Your argument focuses on your 
> opinion that the difference is too small to be important.  I disagree.  I 
> see possibilities in Independent that are more interesting than Universal 
> focus that I can't replace and that the GM is going to contrive to take away 
> from me. 
 
Such as? As I said, it doesn't have to be Independent to have this type 
of adventure. The time Independent becomes very appropriate is when it 
is a long term loss (though it can be appropriate otherwise). You do not 
necessarily need to be able to get a replacement bow or any other such 
thing if it is not Independent, you just have an assurance of getting 
the points back. The adventure still happens normally. In fact, if its a 
bow and Independent and you lose it, why can't you make another bow 
during your hunt for it? Just because you don't have the points? Please, 
tell me it ain't so! I'm not saying Independent can't be interesting: 
merely that it isn't necessary for this type of game. If you enjoy the 
tension of the possible loss, great. 
 
While I have agreed with you on Independent, I still don't believe that 
this style of adventure requires it and never will. It gives an edge 
like gambling to have it, but I've never been much of a gambler. I do 
like Poker, though. My only point was that it was not necessary, not 
that it couldn't have uses in these circumstances. 
 
JAJ, GP 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:15:23 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation 
 
>> Do you mean willing 'to make it happen' or willing 'to let it happen?' 
> 
>I mean willing to let it happen, I'm reasonably sure he does as well: 
>could be wrong, though. 
> 
>Hey, I said I was going to respond to every post: sorry about the 
>bandwidth. 
 
If that was in regard to my statement, yes, i did mean willing to let it 
happen.  I consider that quite bad enough of a character's opponents are run 
halfway rationally. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 22:07:02 GMT 
From: sheehys@wvc.net (Sheehys) 
Subject: Re: Magic Lock 
 
>On Sat, 05 Dec 1998 04:46:10 -0500, you wrote: 
>I'm trying to create a Fantasy Hero power that will magically lock and secure 
>all the openings into a building (windows, doors, etc.).   
>I've built it this way: 
>40 STR Telekinesis, Area Effect , x2 area , uncontrolled, 
>	only to lock and secure doors and windows, 1 continuing 
>	1-day charge. 
>Problem is, this is mighty expensive for such a low-level power.   
>Is there a better way to do this?  Transform might lock the doors, 
>but what keeps them magically held? 
Just my 2 cents worth. 
 
Cost	Powers	 
 
19	Armor (7 PD/8 ED); Ablative: -1; Charges: 1, -2; Continuing 
Charges: 1 Day, +1; Concentrate: 0 DCV, -; Extra Time: 1 turn, -1; 
Limited Power Only to Doors & Window Openings: Slightly, -; Area 
Effect (Radius): 64" radius, +1; Increased Area: 32, 1 
11	2d6 Aid (Fade/day, Max. 12); Range: 0; Linked to armor: -; 
Ablative: -1; Charges: 1, -2; Continuing Charges: 1 Day, +1; 
Concentrate: 0 DCV, -; Extra Time: 1 turn, -1; Limited Power Only to 
Closed Doors & Window Openings: Slightly, -; Affects: Single Power, 
+0; Area Effect (Radius): 64" radius, +1; Increased Area: 32, 1	 
Total 30 points  					END:  0 
 
This is a little more expensive but it is also almost impossible to 
get through a closed window or door.  If it is left open then you can 
go through it. 
 
 
13	4d6 Transform (Major, to stone); Range: 300; Cumulative: No, +0; 
Concentrate: 0 DCV, -; Gestures: Instant Power, -; Incantation: 
Instant Power, -; Limited Power Only closed doors & window openings: 
Significantly, -; Extra Time: 1 min., -1; Charges: 1, -2;  
Costs 6 END:   -; Continuing Charges: 1 Day, +1 
 
Total 13 points				END:  6 
 
This one changes the closed doors and windows openings to stone walls 
just like the rest of the castile.  Just think of the fun of trying to 
find a way in to a place like that. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 17:04:04 -0500 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
Subject: Re: Magic Lock 
 
At 10:07 PM 12/5/98 +0000, Sheehys wrote: 
>>On Sat, 05 Dec 1998 04:46:10 -0500, you wrote: 
>>I'm trying to create a Fantasy Hero power that will magically lock and 
secure 
>>all the openings into a building (windows, doors, etc.).   
>>I've built it this way: 
>>40 STR Telekinesis, Area Effect , x2 area , uncontrolled, 
>>      only to lock and secure doors and windows, 1 continuing 
>>      1-day charge. 
>>Problem is, this is mighty expensive for such a low-level power.   
>>Is there a better way to do this?  Transform might lock the doors, 
>>but what keeps them magically held? 
> 
>Cost   Powers   
> 
>19     Armor (7 PD/8 ED); Ablative: -1; Charges: 1, -2; Continuing 
>Charges: 1 Day, +1; Concentrate: 0 DCV, -; Extra Time: 1 turn, -1; 
>Limited Power Only to Doors & Window Openings: Slightly, -; Area 
>Effect (Radius): 64" radius, +1; Increased Area: 32, 1 
>11     2d6 Aid (Fade/day, Max. 12); Range: 0; Linked to armor: -; 
>Ablative: -1; Charges: 1, -2; Continuing Charges: 1 Day, +1; 
>Concentrate: 0 DCV, -; Extra Time: 1 turn, -1; Limited Power Only to 
>Closed Doors & Window Openings: Slightly, -; Affects: Single Power, 
>+0; Area Effect (Radius): 64" radius, +1; Increased Area: 32, 1        
>Total 30 points                                        END:  0 
> 
>This is a little more expensive but it is also almost impossible to 
>get through a closed window or door.  If it is left open then you can 
>go through it. 
 
I should have also said that I'd like to keep it as simple as possible! 
 
>13     4d6 Transform (Major, to stone); Range: 300; Cumulative: No, +0; 
>Concentrate: 0 DCV, -; Gestures: Instant Power, -; Incantation: 
>Instant Power, -; Limited Power Only closed doors & window openings: 
>Significantly, -; Extra Time: 1 min., -1; Charges: 1, -2;  
>Costs 6 END:   -; Continuing Charges: 1 Day, +1 
> 
>Total 13 points                                END:  6 
> 
>This one changes the closed doors and windows openings to stone walls 
>just like the rest of the castile.  Just think of the fun of trying to 
>find a way in to a place like that. 
 
It's neat, and I amy take it for another use, but it's not what I was 
trying to 
accomplish.   
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
"Posterity shall triumph in this day's business, 
even though we may regret it.  I trust we shall not." 
        John Adams. 2 July 1776 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Scott C. Nolan 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:55:43 -0500 (EST) 
From: Glen Sprigg <borealis@cois.on.ca> 
Subject: Forgot something... 
 
On the two characters I've posted I managed to forget something. 
 
First, the Mountie speak French fluently, costing 3 points. 
 
Second, I forgot about Arctic Fox's appearance.  So, here it is: 
 
APPEARANCE: Colleen Lorentz is a tall, willowy woman with white hair, which 
she wears up in a bun and covers with a blonde wig in her secret identity. 
She dresses very stylishly and in touch with the latest fashions, although 
she finds some of the ultra-modern styles tacky. 
        As Arctic Fox, Colleen wears a white bodysuit with furry white trim, 
white leggings and gloves, and a soft blue belt.  She wears a black domino 
mask to conceal her identity, although it wouldn't be difficult to put two 
and two together for anyone serious enough about discovering her true identity. 
 
Glen 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:03:14 EST 
From: Leuszler@aol.com 
Subject: Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS 
 
In a message dated 12/4/98 10:36:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com writes: 
 
> While looking for bizarre conspiracies to use in my FH campaign, I 
>  stumbled across this website about the plot to kill Hiltler and stage a 
>  coup during WWII. It's got loads of spooky Nazi stuff. 
>   
 
My favorite Spirit story involves Hitler (who is referred to as "the dictator" 
in the story) coming to a pre-war america to stir up discontent.  The Spirit 
convinces him that the american way of life, democracy, et. al.  is superior 
to fascism.  Hitler goes back home to try to change things, and gets killed by 
his inner circle and replaced by a look-a-like.  Great story... 
 
Mike Leuszler 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:14:43 -0600 (Central Standard Time) 
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu> 
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds 
 
> > As long as you look the other way and don't let the damage accumulate, it's 
> > not that big a deal.  After all, anything that can do 90 Body is an 
> > incredibly powerful attack. 
>  
> Hmm, I like it. Simple, elegant, allows the Death Star. I will consider 
> it. 
>  
> However, the write-ups for nuclear bombs that I have seen are 20 dice 
> and such, and could conceivably blow up a planet with only 90 body. Not 
> that I use them that way, mind you. "I am become Death..." 
 
	Personally, I'd like to see some sort of scale rules, like in the 
Star Wars RPG, in use in Hero for such things as planet destroyers. 
 
 
					-Tim Gilberg 
			-"English Majors of the World!  Untie!" 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:53:56 -0500 (EST) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com> 
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds 
 
On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, James Jandebeur wrote: 
 
> > As long as you look the other way and don't let the damage accumulate, it's 
> > not that big a deal.  After all, anything that can do 90 Body is an 
> > incredibly powerful attack. 
>  
> Hmm, I like it. Simple, elegant, allows the Death Star. I will consider 
> it. 
>  
> However, the write-ups for nuclear bombs that I have seen are 20 dice 
> and such, and could conceivably blow up a planet with only 90 body. Not 
> that I use them that way, mind you. "I am become Death..." 
 
Cell has an immense No Range Explosion that is probably 30d6 of RKA.  If 
you use the flat result rule, (where each die rolls a 3) then he does 90 
BODY with the attack.  Since this a 675 active point attack, and is 
basically a massive plot device, it's actual result is moot. 
 
Freezer, on the other hand, can create a smaller energy ball that will 
slowly devour a world.  This is something like a 6d6 RKA with AP and/or 
Penetrating, 0 END, Uncontrolled (etc). 
 
Dragonball Z - when you absolutly need a character who can devestate the 
galaxy... 
 
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com  
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html 
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 16:39:03 -0800 
From: Nic Neidenbach <naneiden@iswest.com> 
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds 
 
I stumbled across this on eBay, figured some folks on this list might be 
interested. :) 
 
- -Nic 
 
 
Title of item:	RPG: Wings of the Valkyre (BEYOND ULTRA RARE) 
Seller:	roebs@excelinc.com 
Starts:	12/03/98 19:27:32 PST  
Ends:	12/10/98 19:27:32 PST  
Price:	Currently $15.50 
To bid the item, go to: 
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=46820649 
 
 
Item Description:		 
	 
Hold on to your hat!   
 
Wings of the Valkyrie is one of the great rare role-playing game 
suppliments in existence.  Produced for the "Champions" RPG, only about 100 
copies survived the production run (the rest were dumped in a landfill). 
In this suppliment super-heroes must time travel back to the 1930's to save 
Adolph Hitler from assassination by a group of super-powered Holocaust 
survivors. 
Players must face the gut-wrenching agony of having to preserve the 
timeline the way it happened--by ensuring WWII takes place and keeping 
Hitler alive.  This suppliment, upon initial release met with immediate 
public outcry, and was immediately recalled.While very controverial in 
nature, it is an exceptionally well-written suppliment that really causes 
players to agonize over what they know they have to do to preserve history. 
 
Even more rare, this copy is Autographed by Bob Bell (the writer of the 
suppliment) 
 
 Winning bidder pays $2.00 shipping. 
 
	Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at 
http://www.ebay.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 19:35:08 -0600 (CST) 
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Piccolo 
 
On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote: 
> At 12:00 AM 12/4/98 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote: 
> >As a side note, Piccolo's name is obviously derived from the musical 
> >instrument.  At one point, the Evil Demon King Piccolo had a host of 
> >flunkies, with such names as Tamborine, Cymbal, Piano and Drum. 
>  
>    I guess one would have to be a non-musician (or, at least, one not very 
> intensely into the variety of instruments) for this to be obvious before 
> seeing the names of the flunkies -- though I don't really see any clear 
> logic the other two possibilities for the name's origin that I'm aware of. 
 
Wow.  I never knew it was 'Piccolo' like the musical instrument. 
Considering the amount of food/vegetable puns present in Dragonball names 
(Kakaroto = carrot, Vegita = vegetable, etc) I always figured it was based 
off of 'pickle', as in 'pickled cucumber'. 
 
J 
 
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent.              Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com 
Qui annus est?                                   http://www.io.com/~jeffj 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 03:08:17 -0500 
From: "Len Carpenter" <redlion@early.com> 
Subject: Re: EMP 
 
>         I have a question on how a power would work. The power is: 
>  
> 2d6 RKA, Area of Effect, Only versus electrical circuits. 
>  
>     This is used to represent an EMP. Now, the villian that has this is 
> going up against a hero in a battlesuit. What I am wondering is how the 
> EMP would work, in game mechanics. What DEF and BODY does the attack go 
> against? 
>     I assume that the Battlesuit does not get to count its full armor 
> value against the attack, but I am wondering how this attack works. 
>     I know how to explain it in terms of special effects, I am just 
> wondering on game mechanics. 
 
Another tack would be to treat the EMP as an AVLD (+1 1/2) attack vs. 
Power Defense that Does BODY (+1) and that only effects electrical 
circuitry (-1).  It's expensive, but unless the electrical system 
targeted has some form of shielding against EMP bought as Power Defense, 
the electronics take full damage.  Normal DEF offers no protection.  A 
cheaper attack would be an NND version, but it could be negated by most 
forms of defense or shielding that protect against electrical attacks, 
such as Damage Reduction vs. electricity only. 
 
Len Carpenter 
redlion@early.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 03:41:52 -0500 (EST) 
From: "Daniel P. Pawtowski" <dpawtows@acm.vt.edu> 
Subject: Re: some dumb questions for the list. 
 
>  
>      (Actually, I use elm, I find the interface "cleaner" than pine's 
> and very easy to use; though I could wish for reverse searches and 
 
  All hail elm!!! 
 
   OK, so I had an interesting experience switching ISP's recently.    
WHen they got their check, a salesdroid called me back to tell me 
that "We don't offer, err, 'Unix shell accounts', whatever those are...". 
Followed a few minutes later by a call from Tech Support telling me 
the Unix shell account was up and running.   
  The latter call was correct.  I ended up telling the tech guy to go 
over to Sales and explain their own products to them. 
 
                                   Daniel "Now at Halcyon" Pawtowski 
 
dpawtows@halcyon.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:41:18 -0600 
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> 
Subject: Re: Magic Lock 
 
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> 
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 1998 3:46 AM 
Subject: Magic Lock 
 
 
>I'm trying to create a Fantasy Hero power that will magically lock and 
secure 
>all the openings into a building (windows, doors, etc.). 
> 
>I've built it this way: 
> 
>40 STR Telekinesis, Area Effect , x2 area , uncontrolled, 
> only to lock and secure doors and windows, 1 continuing 
> 1-day charge. 
> 
>Problem is, this is mighty expensive for such a low-level power. 
>Is there a better way to do this?  Transform might lock the doors, 
>but what keeps them magically held? 
 
 
Possibly Transform the doors into solid parts of the wall that just look 
like doors and windows.  If that doesn't work for you try thinking about how 
you could do it with Force Wall.  Be creative with special effects.  Don't 
limit the special effects of a power to what you see most of the time. 
Force Wall doesn't necessarily have to be a big glowing wall. 
 
Alan 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:06:10 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds 
 
>> As long as you look the other way and don't let the damage accumulate, it's 
>> not that big a deal.  After all, anything that can do 90 Body is an 
>> incredibly powerful attack. 
> 
>Hmm, I like it. Simple, elegant, allows the Death Star. I will consider 
>it. 
> 
>However, the write-ups for nuclear bombs that I have seen are 20 dice 
>and such, and could conceivably blow up a planet with only 90 body. Not 
>that I use them that way, mind you. "I am become Death..." 
 
That's the problem with a ruddy doubling scale.  it is a problem, just like 
the ability to take out a car with one .50 caliber bullet. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 04:32:51 -0600 
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> 
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation 
 
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to> 
To: HERO System List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 1998 2:33 PM 
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation 
 
 
>> I don't see where this is a problem if you don't want the possibility 
don't 
>> let them take Independent.  If you are going to force the loss don't let 
>> them take Independent.  Simply hit them over the head with a rubber bat. 
It 
>> would hurt less.  Only let them take Independent if you are going to play 
it 
>> fair.  What happens, happens.  Whatever will be, will be. 
> 
>That was actually both condescending and unfair, especially when you got 
>to the rubber bat. 
 
I don't think that it was condescending, it certainly wasn't meant to be.  I 
thought the rubber bat phrase was cute and expressed my feelings perfectly, 
obviously not.  My use of the word 'you' in the paragraph was not supposed 
to refer to Mr. Shaw specifically but all GMs in general.  I am not a writer 
and don't purport to be one.  I write the way I talk.  I think that 
something is lost in the translation.  The whole body language, facial 
expression, tones, and inflection thing.  This reminds me of a paper on 
netiquette than recommended you speak politely and have a tough skin when 
using either email and IRC.  Hopefully, no harm was done by this 
misunderstanding. 
 
>All Mr. Shaw has ever said is that the GM must be 
>willing to take the thing so limited away, and that the player must be 
>willing to live with that consequence should come up. I'm the only one I 
>know of that sounded like he insisted the item be purposely taken away, 
>and I didn't mean it, either, and have moderated my statements and my 
>opinion. I agree with what he said: the GM must be willing to take it 
>away. 
 
I agree that the GM must as well, at the time I wrote the above quote I was 
sure that Mr. Shaw felt similarly to your earlier posts or I wouldn't have 
replied as if he did.  If you take off the 'I don't see where this is a 
problem' part, I think it is a very good bit of advice. 
 
Tired now, champs game over, bed. 
 
Alan 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 00:47:00 +1100 
From: Hamish Laws <h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation 
 
At 02:34 PM 12/3/98 PST, Jesse Thomas wrote: 
>On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 "James Jandebeur" wrote: 
> 
>>Actually, Independent powers have been presented that are not bought  
>through 
>>Foci.  
> 
><snip> 
> 
>>I am reasonably sure that that's not the case in the BBB, as I remember  
>it 
>>talking about this being used on a focus only, but extending it to  
>non-foci 
>>does make sense. 
> 
>Since I was quoting from the BBB, I was using the rules as they appear  
>in the BBB, which do require that you buy Independent powers as Foci.   
 
Nope, "Independent powers are items when they are built with the Focus 
Limitation. The Focus must be Universal. However an Independent Power 
doesn't have to be tied to an item. A character could also throw an 
Independent Power on a person or a place." 
 
pg 108 BBB 
 
**************************************************************************** 
The Politician's Slogan 
'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all 
of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. 
Fortunately only a simple majority is required.' 
**************************************************************************** 
 
 
Mad Hamish 
 
Hamish Laws 
h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au 
h_laws@tassie.net.au 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 00:46:48 +1100 
From: Hamish Laws <h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au> 
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation 
 
At 10:02 AM 12/3/98 EST, Leah L Watts wrote: 
>>> It's a bit odd, and to me Independent has only dubious levels of 
>usefulness 
>>>  in a game anyway. What it really says is that you will someday lose 
>the item 
>>>  and the associated points: otherwise, in what way is it limiting?  
>> 
>>Yeah... That's how I felt about it... But say a character's hunter stole 
>the 
>>suit, then later the suit was recovered?   
> 
>Hunters can swipe foci, it doesn't need to be defined as Independent if 
>that's what you want to do.  They might even be able to steal a power 
>bought OIHID, depending on the SFX. (Back when Thor was turning into the 
>wimpy doctor, didn't his cane [the disguised Mjollnir] get lost/stolen at 
>least once?) 
 
Wouldn't that be Multiform with an OAF or IAF?  
 
**************************************************************************** 
The Politician's Slogan 
'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all 
of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. 
Fortunately only a simple majority is required.' 
**************************************************************************** 
 
Mad Hamish 
 
Hamish Laws 
h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au 
h_laws@tassie.net.au 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 10:26:21 EST 
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts) 
Subject: Re: Stealing Foci (was Re: Independent Limitation) 
 
>>Hunters can swipe foci, it doesn't need to be defined as Independent if 
>>that's what you want to do.  They might even be able to steal a power 
>>bought OIHID, depending on the SFX. (Back when Thor was turning into 
the 
>>wimpy doctor, didn't his cane [the disguised Mjollnir] get lost/stolen 
at 
>>least once?) 
> 
>Wouldn't that be Multiform with an OAF or IAF?  
 
Possibly, but the softcover BBB used Thor as an example for OIHID (with 
lots of double-talk on the name to avoid copyright infringement). 
 
Leah 
 
___________________________________________________________________ 
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. 
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html 
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 10:26:21 EST 
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts) 
Subject: Re: An Array Type Question 
 
>I'm planning on developing a group of high-tec hocky-like villans and I 
had 
>a question on the mechanics of a power.  The SFX would be that any of 
the 
>"hockey team" could pick up the "puck" and shoot it towards the heroes. 
>There would only be one puck between the group.  I'm planning to base it 
on 
>EB vs. PD but how would I mechanically base it on the whole group? 
 
This suggestion is going to extrapolate a bit from the rules, read the 
explanation before flaming: 
 
Buy a __d6 EB, Physical, OAF puck, and whatever other advantages or 
limitations you wanted.  Define the puck as a Universal focus so the 
whole team can use it.  Divide the point cost by the number of people in 
the team, and have each member pay his share.  So, if the real cost for 
the hockey puck attack is 30 points, and there's 5 team members, each one 
pays 6 points for the attack. 
 
Explanation:  Hero/villian teams can already share points to get bases 
and vehicles.  No one person in the Justice Foundation has to pay all the 
points for the Turbo-Jet, and while Defender might have donated Homestead 
to the Champions he didn't have to pay all the points for it.  Why not 
let teams share points for other pieces of equipment? 
 
Leah 
 
___________________________________________________________________ 
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. 
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html 
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:23:09 -0500 (EST) 
From: Glen Sprigg <borealis@cois.on.ca> 
Subject: Alouette 
 
I'm starting with the members of the Canadian Shield East team, Arctic Fox 
being the leader.  The other members are Alouette, Huron, Mindstar, and 
Slapshot. 
 
ALOUETTE 
 
Val     Char    Cost    100+    Disadvantages 
10      STR     0       20      PSYCH LIM: Code vs. Killing 
24      DEX     42      15      PSYCH LIM: Proud of French-Canadian heritage 
25      CON     30      10      PSYCH LIM: Terrified of snakes (Unc, Str) 
10      BODY    0       15      WATCHED: Canadian Government (Mo Pow, NCI, 14-) 
12      INT     12      25      HUNTED: Humanity (Mo Pow, NCI, 11-) 
18      EGO     16      15      DISTINCTIVE FEATURES: Wings (Not Con, Str) 
20      PRE     10      10      DNPC: Father (Norm, 11-, useful) 
16      COM     3       15      SECRET ID: Louise Larose 
10      PD      8       10      VULNERABILITY: 1.5xSTUN from gases, 
chemicals, etc. 
10      ED      5       124     EXPERIENCE 
6       SPD     26 
10      REC     6 
60      END     5 
35      STUN    7 
 
Pts     Powers/Skills/Takents/Perks                                  END/Roll 
33      25" Flight, Restrainable (wings)                                1/5" 
62      Multipower, 62 pt. pool (Sonic powers) 
6u      10d6 Sonic EB, 1/2 END                                          2 
6u      5d6 NND (sonic, not vs. hard ear cover, Flash Def vs. Hearing) 
        1/2 END                                                         2 
6u      5d6 Flash vs. Hearing, 1/2 END                                  2 
6u      25 PD/25 ED Force Field, 1/2 END                                2 
5u      6d6 EB, Affects Desolid, 1/2 END                                2 
7       +20 ED, only vs. Sonics (-2) 
16      8 PD/8 ED Armor, OIF - Costume 
5       5 pts. Flash Defense vs. Hearing 
6       +3 to Hearing PER rolls 
10      +3 DCV (only in flight (-1/2) 
15      +3 Levels w/ Multipower 
 
3       Acrobatics                                                      14- 
3       CK: Montreal                                                    12- 
3       CK: Ottawa                                                      12- 
3       CK: Quebec City                                                 12- 
3       CK: Toronto                                                     12- 
3       Language: English (Fluent, French is native) 
5       Mimicry                                                         12- 
4       PS: Singer                                                      13- 
8       Contacts: Member of Parliament                                  14- 
                  Music Producer                                        12- 
 
OCV: 8+   DCV: 8+   ECV: 6      Phases: 2,4,6,8,10,12 
 
CHAR  +  POWERS  =  TOTAL  =  BASE  +  DISADS 
141        218       359       100      259 
 
NAME: Louise Larose, Singer 
 
PERSONAL DETAILS: Born: July 8, 1978.  Height: 5'3".  Weight: 56 kg.  Hair: 
Brown, short, straight.  Eyes: Brown 
 
BACKGROUND: Louise Larose is the daughter of a federal Member of Parliament. 
Her mother died when she was eight years old, and her father had difficulty 
devoting enough time to her due to his political career.  He tried his best, 
and loved her very dearly.  She grew up a typical fourteen-year-old, 
listening to loud music with her friends, staying late dancing, and other 
such youthful entertainments.  She loved singing, and many people believed 
she was talented enough to have a professional career. 
        However, shortly after her fourteenth birthday, she woke up one 
morning and discovered, to her intense shock, that there were a pair of 
wings growing out of her back!  Her father, home during a parliamentary 
recess, comforted her as best he could.  He thought about the new paranormal 
team that was being formed, the Canadian Shield, and thought that they could 
at least help her cope with what was happening to her. 
        He immediately contacted the organization, and soon two of the 
team's members came to visit: The Mountie, and Chinook.  The two spoke with 
Louise about her mutation, and offered to help her.  She took the code name 
Alouette, and joined the team solely in a training capacity, but was soon 
forced into active duty during the Soviet sub incident.  It was during a 
battle with the Canadian supervillainess Harpy that she discovered her sonic 
powers, and easily defeated the surprised villain. 
        For a time she was the youngest member of the team, and the other 
members of the team tried to shield her from the more dangerous missions 
they undertook.  Her father was not pleased that she was doing any fighting 
at all, but there was nothing he could do without risking her secret 
identity.  But more than superheroing, Louise wanted to sing.  While a 
public career is out of the question for Louise Larose, she recorded an 
album as Alouette when she was only fifteen.  The first album, SKYWALKER, 
became a smash success, and she has released three other albums since then. 
Her music career has made her the most popular member of the Canadian Shield 
among Canada's youth. 
        She and Yukon Jack dated for a time, but their teenage romance grew 
into a strong friendship.  When the team was split, Alouette chose to remain 
in Toronto to be closer to her father.  She was saddened that Jack went out 
west, but understands his decision. 
 
QUOTE: "Non, there is nothing like soaring on wings.  I wish everyone could 
try it." 
 
PERSONALITY: Alouette was a typical teenager in many ways.  Now that she's 
just reached her twenties, she still has a youthful spirit that often 
inspires her teammates.  She wishes she could go out as herself once in a 
while, but her wings make that impossible.  Still, she tries to be as normal 
as she can, watching MuchMusic and ordering things by mail.  Sometimes, she 
does go out as Alouette just to shop or have fun.  On one of these outings, 
however, she was attacked by the villain Foxbat, who was involved with some 
part of his Master Plan (what it had to do with a teen fashion accessory 
shop is still unknown). 
        She cares deeply for her father, and wishes she could see him more 
often.  Unfortunately, the organization known as Humanity would certainly 
attack her father if they learned he had fathered a mutant, and his 
political career would be compromised.  He has tried for several years to be 
put on the Canadian Shield parliamentary advisory committee without success. 
They do talk on the phone as much as possible, and are very close.  Her 
father has gradually come to accept her full-time role on the team, and 
supports her fully. 
        In battle, Alouette is more serious, and still cautious.  She tries 
to avoid combat when possible, since she knows she is relatively vulnerable; 
but when it is necessary, she will fight aggressively, trying to put her 
opponent down before they can respond.  She hates guns, and tried to avoid 
gun-wielding foes (Foxbat not included). 
 
POWERS/TACTICS: Louise is a rare sort of mutant, with two mutations: her 
bird-like wings, and her sonic powers.  She can fly as well as any bird, at 
impressive speeds.  She has extraordinary agility in the air, and loves 
swooping and diving maneuvers.  She wears an armored costume to protect 
against those nasty guns. 
        Her sonic powers have several forms, including her straight 
concussive blast (EB), her Power Scream (Flash), and her subsonic blast 
(NND).  Her sonics can affect desolidified opponents, and she can produce a 
wall of sound strong enough to deflect almost anything.  Sonic attacks 
hardly affect her, and she has no fear against an opponent with such powers. 
        In combat, she will generally use her EB, then switch tactics to 
whatever attack seems most likely to affect her opponent.  If she is up 
against a foe with powerful energy attacks or automatic weapons, she will 
forego attacking and use her force field, counting on her teammates to help 
her out.  She is an excellent team player, and will follow the orders of 
Arctic Fox and Huron, in that order. 
 
APPEARANCE: Alouette is slim, and her wings give her an angelic appearance. 
She keeps her hair short, since it otherwise has a tendency to blow in the 
 
wind, and she hates the mess that makes.  She wears a blue bodysuit with a 
white silhouette of a bird across the front, white gloves, boots, and belt, 
and a half mask to cover her face.  She is well-tanned, since she spends so 
much time in the air. 
 
************************ 
 
Constructive criticism will be appreciated, flames will be snuffed. 
 
Glen 
 
------------------------------ 
 
End of champ-l-digest V1 #75 
**************************** 


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