Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 78
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 12:14 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #78
champ-l-digest Monday, December 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 078
In this issue:
Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
Re: some dumb questions for the list.
Re: The Mountie
Re: Take a look at these power concepts.
Re: Character Comparisons
RE: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: Take a look at these power concepts.
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: The Mountie
Re: Living Shadows...
Re: Living Shadows
Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
Re: Take a look at these power concepts.
RE: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Re: Character Comparisons
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: AP/Penetrating question
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: An Array Type Question
RE: Article on Canada (fwd)
RE: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
RE: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
RE: How do you define 'mutant'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 19:00:44 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
Filksinger wrote:
>
> From: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>
> > As long as you look the other way and don't let the damage
> > accumulate, it's
> > not that big a deal. After all, anything that can do 90 Body is an
> > incredibly powerful attack.
>
> Personally, I've always hated the "90 BODY rule". It is utterly
> ridiculous. By now, people digging basements would have destroyed the
> world 1000x over. And even if basements didn't count, how many 500
> pound bombs hit the ground during WWII? A single bad bombing run would
> destroy the world.
I may (almost for sure) have missed some of the arguments concerning a
90 body planet because of the doubling effects. But as far as I know,
that only comes into play once you have punched through the object.
Now a hex of dirt has 16 body (BBB 177). Now the earth is some 13000
km thick or 6 500 000 hexes. This means that it is going to take about
100 000 000 body (ignoring any defences for different strata) to blow a
hole through the "wall" (read planet). Every body point above that
doubles the size of the hole. Make the hole big enough, and no more
planet.
Any where that my reasoning as a hole? (No pun intended)
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 23:39:53 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: some dumb questions for the list.
Filksinger wrote:
> > >>>>
> > *if one was trying to blanket a whole planet in AE hexes, would
> 'AE-radius'
> > be aplicable sor covering the surface, or should 'AE-any' be used, to
> depict the complex and varied nature of a planets surface, underworld, ect?
> In all cases, what's the circumference of the earth in hexes? (hey my atlas
> is upstairs, ok?)
> >
> ><<<<
> >
> >For Hero4, use enough Radius to cover the surface area.
> >According to my Britannica, the Earth has a surface area of 509,600,000
> square kilometers. If I'm doing my figures right (and I'm sure someone will
> jump in and correct me if I'm not), a square kilometer comes up to 192,450
> hexes, which means a total of just over 98 trillion hexes (that's a US
> trillion -- 10^12). So you'd need a Radius of about 99 million inches.
>
> Depends upon a number of factors, but isn't anywhere near this big. The
> circumference of the Earth is about 24,000 miles, which is roughly
> 19,000,000 inches. Since the radius of the AE:Radius only needs to be half
> of this (since the outer edges of your AE would meet on the far side of the
> world), you only need about 9,5000,000 inches in radius.
>
> If you went solely by the size of the area of the surface, which is slightly
> different (since the Earth is not a disk), you'd only need about 7,200,000
> (since this number of inches, converted to KM, times 2 times pi gives
> 651,000,000 square kilometers. This might be necessary for GMs who insist
> that radius is a disk, and thus does not follow the surface of the Earth,
> thus requiring a player to buy AE: Any.
AE radius is 3 dimensional. Barring anything from the FX about not
going through solid objects, you only need to reach through the centre
to the other side, some 13000 KM. Your effect will then reach
everything on and below the surface of the planet. Of course this
approach absolutly totals many of the saterlites in low and medium earth
orbits.
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 19:21:10 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: The Mountie
Dave Mattingly wrote:
>
> Mostly off-topic, but there's a Dudley Dooright live-action movie in the
> works (starring Brendan Frazer as teh mountie).
I'll just show my lack of currency with movie stars, but who is Brendan
Frazer?
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:07:40 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Take a look at these power concepts.
>Diceless games tend to focus more on story and character development, and less
>on combat. Combat is usually far less important.
Even if not in combat, a confrontational power gamer who doesn't respect GM
authority could turn a diceless game into even more of a nightmare than a
diced one.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:30:34 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Character Comparisons
>I'm looking for a good method of ranking characters in overall power and
>effectiveness in combat. I have seen some on the net and am having trouble
>finding them again. If anyone has some could you please send me the URL or
>the formulae either off list or on if you feel anyone else would be
>interested. Thanks in advance.
I have a more sophisticated version of the Rule of X idea from Fuzion
adapted to Hero if you're interested. It isn't perfect...it ignores issues
of mobility and versitility for the most part...but it's worked well enough
on the average locally.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:27:44 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: RE: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
>From: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>
>> As long as you look the other way and don't let the damage
>> accumulate, it's
>> not that big a deal. After all, anything that can do 90 Body is an
>> incredibly powerful attack.
>
>Personally, I've always hated the "90 BODY rule". It is utterly
>ridiculous. By now, people digging basements would have destroyed the
>world 1000x over. And even if basements didn't count, how many 500
>pound bombs hit the ground during WWII? A single bad bombing run would
>destroy the world.
>
>Filksinger
It's the problem with having a cumulative effect mixed with a logarithmic
system. The same thing happens in personal combat, really. Look at how
easy it is to take out an automobile with .22 bullets sometime. Or how easy
it is to kill an average human with a penknife.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:59:08 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
>
>
>This brings up more questions. Is there really a difference between an
>individual born with a genetic mutation and an individual falling into the
>"vat of radioactive sludge?" I'm not seeing much of a difference here.
>
In my game, not a hell of a lot. They both derive their powers from
essentially the same genetic source.
>If superman were subjected to something more than a superficial medical
>exam, would he appear to have genetic mutations when compared to a norm?
>Would it be logical to presume that most aliens, while human in appearance,
>would appear quite different in a medical examination?
I'd certainly expect so...but then, comics don't always take a particularly
realistic take on such things.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:35:16 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
>At 06:06 PM 12/5/98 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>>> As long as you look the other way and don't let the damage accumulate,
>it's
>>>> not that big a deal. After all, anything that can do 90 Body is an
>>>> incredibly powerful attack.
>>>
>>>Hmm, I like it. Simple, elegant, allows the Death Star. I will consider
>>>it.
>>>
>>>However, the write-ups for nuclear bombs that I have seen are 20 dice
>>>and such, and could conceivably blow up a planet with only 90 body. Not
>>>that I use them that way, mind you. "I am become Death..."
>>
>>That's the problem with a ruddy doubling scale. it is a problem, just like
>>the ability to take out a car with one .50 caliber bullet.
>>
>As I understand things, and I'm a _long_ way from being an expert a .50
>bullet can easily make a car undrivable if you shoot into the engine...
Yes, but in Hero it can do it without any reference to hit location, just
against the generic structure of the car.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:23:44 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
>To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 8:23 PM
>Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
>
>
>>>> As long as you look the other way and don't let the damage accumulate,
>it's
>>>> not that big a deal. After all, anything that can do 90 Body is an
>>>> incredibly powerful attack.
>>>
>>>Hmm, I like it. Simple, elegant, allows the Death Star. I will consider
>>>it.
>>>
>>>However, the write-ups for nuclear bombs that I have seen are 20 dice
>>>and such, and could conceivably blow up a planet with only 90 body. Not
>>>that I use them that way, mind you. "I am become Death..."
>>
>>That's the problem with a ruddy doubling scale. it is a problem, just like
>>the ability to take out a car with one .50 caliber bullet.
>>
>
>well, check out TUSV when it's out, plus
>i may place a link to my 3da system on the list
>if i get it onto a page before christmas. In it, each *hex*
>has a body score. ..
Not sure that makes sense though. After all, giant monsters and robots are
often more than one hex, but they still only have one Body score.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:39:54 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
>
>I'd like to hear how many of you define a mutant in your Champions
campaigns. At what point does a norm become a mutant? I have a player who
insists his character is not a mutant and I don't agree. The character in
question is a mini-superman; flight, super strength, speed, n-ray, etc...
The character is not an alien. The (limited) background given is that he is
a longshoreman that gained super powers one day. I cannot get the player to
explain this 'defining moment.' The way I see it, if the character exceeds
NHCM and/or can fly, see through buildings, etc..., he has mutated beyond an
ordinary person as is a mutant. Do agree/disagree?
In my particular campaign, 'mutant' in the superpowered sense is used for a
character who's ultradaptive genes kick in naturally as a result of prenatal
influences. Mutates are ultradaptives who's powers kick in as a consequence
of outside stimuli (accidents, usually). You'd have to tell me what you
mean by a mutant, and I'd have to know why this character got powers before
I could answer the question.
>
>In addition, if a character is a mutant in some way, have you ever let a
character have a perk of 'does not show up on mutant detectors.' If so, how
many points would this cost?
Since mutants and mutates in mine are essentially the same thing just
triggered differently, they both show up on methods that detect
ultradaptives. The only way not to is to buy Invisibility to Detect
Ultradaptation.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:12:30 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
>Filksinger wrote:
>>
>> From: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
>>
>> > As long as you look the other way and don't let the damage
>> > accumulate, it's
>> > not that big a deal. After all, anything that can do 90 Body is an
>> > incredibly powerful attack.
>>
>> Personally, I've always hated the "90 BODY rule". It is utterly
>> ridiculous. By now, people digging basements would have destroyed the
>> world 1000x over. And even if basements didn't count, how many 500
>> pound bombs hit the ground during WWII? A single bad bombing run would
>> destroy the world.
>
> I may (almost for sure) have missed some of the arguments concerning a
>90 body planet because of the doubling effects. But as far as I know,
>that only comes into play once you have punched through the object.
>
> Now a hex of dirt has 16 body (BBB 177). Now the earth is some 13000
>km thick or 6 500 000 hexes. This means that it is going to take about
>100 000 000 body (ignoring any defences for different strata) to blow a
>hole through the "wall" (read planet). Every body point above that
>doubles the size of the hole. Make the hole big enough, and no more
>planet.
Nope. Look at the barrier rules; if a solid block of steel as thick as a
planet doesn't get that kind of Body, it's hard to assume the planet does.
Admittedly the 90 Body _would_ just punch a hex wide hole through the
Earth...but about the time you hit, oh, 120, the result is pretty ugly. The
logarithmic system in Hero does some very nice things in spots, especially
for a superhero game, but it also produces some godawful buggy results that
have to be patched carefully or you run into wierd border conditions at some
point.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 19:16:48 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Mike Christodoulou wrote:
>
> At 05:47 PM 12/7/98 -0800, Eric Wylie wrote:
> >
> > I'd like to hear how many of you define a mutant in your Champions
> > campaigns. At what point does a norm become a mutant?
>
> Well, hopefully a biologist can check in on this, but for now, maybe this
> will do. A mutant is a creature whose DNA has been changed in some manner.
> Mutations actually occur periodically in any species, which is the basis
> of the whole Darwin thing. The mutation can be as subtle as a slightly
> elongated ear, or as dramatic as an extra limb.
>
> If the character in question receives his powers as the result of a
> change to his DNA, then he's a mutant. (Though what a "mutant detector"
> might be, I can't guess.) Spiderman often swears that he is not a mutant,
> but in fact, I think he is.
A mutant (or sport or freak [sport is the better term]) is somebody who
has DNA outside the norms of his species and which occurred during
conception. It can be, as you say, as little as different hair color,
or as radical as a different mode of movement.
Conversely, somebody like Peter Parker is not a mutant but has been
mutated. The difference being timing. He would show up on mutant
detectors, however, as his DNA is outside normal human norms.
And while we are on the subject, what came first, the chicken or the
egg? The egg. Something that was not a chicken laid the egg that
contained what would become known as a chicken. Hence the egg was a
mutant non-chicken that produced our sunday lunch.
(Now I wonder how much that will produce?)
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:56:04 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Take a look at these power concepts.
>Here are a few power concepts a player of mine came up with. . . what do
you think of them?
>
>1: A multipower framework with 21 slots, with a 60 pt pool, all apparently
'vampire powers'
>(including raw stat bonuses and so forth), roughly half with ultra slots.
Usually by the time you're hitting that many slots, a VPP is more
effective...but then there's those stats. You do realize that stats bought
through multipowers don't add to figured characteristics? Does the player?
>
>2: A character wth a set of multiforms specifically intended (according to
the player) to purchase
>'as many powers as possible' for as cheap a price as possible (this for a
were-creature(not a shapeshifter for instance), as opposed to an
infinite-man or any sfx which would reasonably explain it, as far as i could
tell)
Usually multiforms are not all that cheap, since you have to rebuy all those
stats multiple times. Even at 1/5, it gets into diminishing returns. if he
hasn't done something cute, it shouldn't be a problem. On the other hand,
that's a hell of a reason to do it.
>
>3: A character with an 8d6 hka and a 12 spd who only had 12 def, in a
relativly standard superheroic campaign- at this juncture the player stated
that if his character was badly injured or died, it would have more to do
with my gm-ing style then his characters' shortcomings. All of the
characters powers were brought with various foci.
He's an ass. You may tell him so for me. He's set up to kill people, and
set up to get chewed up like cardboard.
>
>Upon stating over the months in turn that each of these power constructs
were invalid,
>the player has insisted that I was the one comitting a protocol
transgression, despite my
>specifically stating in advance that I reserved the right to reject any
power concept on inspection.
>In each case the player neglected to reveal the construct in question until
the last
>possible moment, and insisted that the amount of time he had spent working
on the
>powers gave him some rights to use the character reguardless of my
objections. No
>other player has made objections of any sort to my conduct in this or any
other game.
>Question to the list, what would your own jugements be on these power
constructs as
>far as wether they are valid, in terms of a normal superheroic setting.
Also, what type
>of reaction would you have to a player with this attitude? I welcome any sort
>of response, positive, negative, or (like myself) mildly amused.
Well, you see my reaction to the first two. The first one may be okay,
though if he thinks he's getting figured stats out of the multipower stats,
he's dreaming. The second is questionable, but may be okay. The third is
just missing the point. And from the sound of it, if you've accurately
displayed it, I don't like his attitude and it sounds like he may be be the
more malign form of power gamer.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 05:44:06 EST
From: Leuszler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
In a message dated 12/5/98 4:37:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, james@javaman.to
writes:
> Not to the best of my knowledge. As I've said, I changed my mind. It
> happens. Not often on this list, though. Now all I have to do is track
> down the original poster and appologize for scaring him off.
>
> JAJ, GP
Takes more than what you did to scare me off... Whatever that was.
Mike Leuszler, the original poster
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:12:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Mike O'Connor" <mjo@dojo.mi.org>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
I'm subscribed to the digest because I pretend to have a like (rather
unsuccessfully), so bear with me if this has already been said.
In the Marvel Universe, you're only considered a 'mutant' for
classification purposes, if you're born a 'mutant' -- it's in the
bloodline, as someone else had put it. If not, you're considered to
be a 'mutate' (with a short "a" sound -- mu-tet, not mu-tayte). So
Spider-Man is a 'mutate' and the X-Men are 'mutants'.
One of the more amusing villians I had was a woman who was born
a mutant, but her mutant powers didn't manifest themselves until
menopause, rather than puberty. "Hotflash" was a trip. :) I
probably have the character sheet somewhere around here, but I'm
sure you could use your imagination, here.
- --
Michael J. O'Connor | WWW: http://dojo.mi.org/~mjo/ | Email: mjo@dojo.mi.org
InterNIC WHOIS: MJO | (has my PGP & Geek Code info) | Phone: +1 248-848-4481
=--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--=
"Revolution starts at home, preferably in the bathroom mirror." -Bob Mould
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:53:22 -0500
From: "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net>
Subject: Re: The Mountie
>> Mostly off-topic, but there's a Dudley Dooright live-action movie in the
>> works (starring Brendan Frazer as teh mountie).
>
> I'll just show my lack of currency with movie stars, but who is Brendan
>Frazer?
In terms of other cartoons brought to life, he recently starred as George of
the Jungle. Otherwise, he's a fairly talented character actor who mostly
does really goofy roles.
Dave Mattingly
http://haymaker.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:13:31 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Living Shadows...
On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, lizard@mrlizard.com wrote:
> I have a villain in my current campaign who has, among her other
> powers, the ability to animate your shadow and have it attack you.
> Since I was pressed for time when writing her up, I took the simplest
> route and made it mental illusions, one image only, with enough dice
> to make it likely the target would be at the 'takes stun' level.
> However, this really isn't as optimal as I'd like. Other ideas?
Hmm. I was going to say 'I had a character like this' but then I realized
I had misread. The character I had was able to animate his /own/ shadow
and send it off to do stuff on its own, which is pretty easily done with
Duplication. (Speaking of which, does anyone else think Duplication
should get a point break if both characters are exactly the same? I mean,
which is more useful, two identical characters or two equally-powered
characters with different abilities?)
> The other things I've considered are:
> a)Adding an Images power, linked, so that other people see the
> shadows, but the target still takes Stun due to the mental half.
Just make the Mental Illusions a Visible attack. Cheaper, no? Sure,
everyone will be able to tell that it's /you/ causing the shadow to
attack, but it's the easiest way.
> b)Summoning:The problem is, defining what is being summoned. Do I
> define a generic 'shadow beast', or do I come up with the stats for
> the shadows of each individual target?
If you go this route, go for a 'generic shadow beast' and then give it
shapeshift, etc. If the shadow is supposed to be equal in power to the
victim, give it limitations to reflect that. It might well have Desolid
(not vs. light attacks) and Affects Real World with the limitation 'only
to affect person who casts the shadow'.
Here's a power that might be evil to inflict upon your players: give the
shadow some sort of ability - not sure what, yet, but maybe a cumulative
transform - that 'swaps' the victim and the shadow-beast. The
shadow-creature is now solid and has all thw abilities of the target,
while the victim is trapped as the shadow...perhaps EGO rolls could let
the HERO move independently of the beast 'casting' him, in a desperate
attempt to warn the others of his plight...
> (The other issue is combat itself...if you're battling a mental
> illusion, do you run into normal combat time, with rolls to hit based
> on ECV, or can I just say that since it's all in your mind, the
> illusionist is running the show? Certainly, at the 'no longer
> interacts with reality' level, that's what it should be, but that's
> not the case here)
I think you'd use regular OCV when fighting Mental Illusions. Of course,
if you /hit/ a mental illusion, what happens is completely up to the
illusionist, so it's sort of a moot point, unless they get evil and cause
you to accidentally attack teammates, innocent people, etc.
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:21:54 +0000
From: Stephen McGinness <MCGINNESSS@parliament.uk>
Subject: Re: Living Shadows
Lizard was asking how you would go about simulating animating someone's
shadow to attack them.
I think that once again it can go to the "special effects" side of the power. I'd go
with a continuous uncontrollable attack which had the special effect of animating
the victims shadow. Now this could be bought to 0 END (BIG STOP SIGNS!)
and given set conditions under which the attack can be stopped or reduced etc.
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:55:14 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
>>well, check out TUSV when it's out, plus
>>i may place a link to my 3da system on the list
>>if i get it onto a page before christmas. In it, each *hex*
>>has a body score. ..
>
>Not sure that makes sense though. After all, giant monsters and robots are
>often more than one hex, but they still only have one Body score.
>
wel, it sets things up in tables including all the hexes, plotting
movement of projectiles in terms of modules, hulls and superstructure. .
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 01:07:47 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Take a look at these power concepts.
Thank's fer everyone's responses, I was glad to see some
notes on the multipower for instance- although his decision
there was likely based on my forbidding him a vpp
(gee I wonder why). All in all, i'm glad to see most peole
seem to have a similar response. I'll likely give the guy an
ultimatium and salvage players from there *g*
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:43:32 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: RE: CAPTURING SOMEONE
From: Jay P Hailey
>
>
> Well the usual method is to have an engeue (beautiful woman of loose
> morals) slip him a mickey.
Normally, I'd probably let this slide, but both the spelling _and_ the
definition are wrong. An ingenue is an _innocent_ young woman. Your
temptress can appear to be an ingenue, but obviously isn't.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: 07 Dec 1998 09:46:09 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Character Comparisons
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"JAE" == J Alan Easley <alaneasley@email.com> writes:
JAE> I'm looking for a good method of ranking characters in overall power
JAE> and effectiveness in combat.
Look at his OCV and DCV, the total DCs he has in his attacks, and his DEF.
It really is that simple.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBNmvqMIJfryJUlUjZEQIRuwCggF2q5847vo0oyTzvIF0QuJ07fh8AoOJ/
oL0AeyKaSYl8cWi9IQxlqTHR
=Pbbh
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 19:33:01 -0800
From: jayphailey@juno.com (Jay P Hailey)
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
>In addition, if a character is a mutant in some way, have you ever let
>a character have a perk of 'does not show up on mutant detectors.' If
>so, how many points would this cost?
>
>Regards,
>Eric
Our definintion of Mutant is a person whose powers come from genetic
sources. All mutants have a "tag" in their genetic code. Potential
mutants have the tag but no manifestation.
Some potentials activate during a an extreme event.
Some people have powers granted from an out side, and are not mutants.
Mutants in our game generally take a disad, "Show up on Mutant Scanners"
worth about 5 points. Although the results can be life threatening,
Genocide and the mutant scanners are rare enough not to allow any more of
a limitation.
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!>
"A B C D E-F-G. Eric the half a bee......"
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: 07 Dec 1998 09:44:58 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: AP/Penetrating question
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"JJ" == James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to> writes:
JJ> Really? Interesting. So you'd take multiple levels of Pen to get the
JJ> effect I was describing? I find that acceptable.
No; you can buy multiple levels of Armor Piercing, but you cannot buy
multiple levels of Penetrating (unless the GM institutes a house rule).
And even if you have 30 levels of AP in addition to Penetrating, my one
level of Hardened will still negate one level of AP and your Penetrating.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBNmvp6IJfryJUlUjZEQLAPgCeJVetjiDNJERMPyX+8vmD9Ej1gDYAnRSW
fUtU5GgPJS63wKWBbIEM5Laf
=n+HU
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 09:16:00 -0500
From: emiller1@worldbank.org
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
If the player will not define the character's super-human abilities,
then it is indeed up to the GM to do so. However, that does not mean that
the character has to be a mutant. Keep you mind open to such possibilities
as magical or alien effects which have changed him, without his knowing
what or how; whatever. "Mutant" is often something players hesitate
heavily about, based upon the X-Books.
As far as mutant detects, I usually have handled this with a
conditional distinctive feature "Detects as a mutant", requiring simple
tests or special technology. The only question is how much of a prejudice
would be based on "mutant" in your campaign. It is usually a 10 or 15
pointer, but might conceivably be nothing more than a 5-pointer for some
campaigns. If a player wants a mutant character who doesn't detect as
such, I would usually make sure that the disad is listed on the character,
but with a perk of equal point value stating that the standard detects
don't actually work. Or, list it as a zero-point disad, with note that
standard detects don't work.
David
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:23:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Hartjes <chris@ergmusic.com>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
>
> I'd like to hear how many of you define a mutant in your Champions campaigns. At what point does a norm become a mutant? I have a player who insists his character is not a mutant and I don't agree. The character in question is a mini-superman; flight, super strength, speed, n-ray, etc... The character is not an alien. The (limited) background given is that he is a longshoreman that gained super powers one day. I cannot get the player to explain this 'defining moment.' The way I see it, if the character exceeds NHCM and/or can fly, see through buildings, etc..., he has mutated beyond an ordinary person as is a mutant. Do agree/disagree?
>
Well, in my campaign world, you could lump characters into three
catagories:
(1) Humans
(2) Those who got their abilities via magic
(3) mutants
I introduced the concept of a specific gene that allows people to
exhibit paranormal abilities. If you test positive for that gene
(which can easily tested for) then you are a mutant. End of
discussion. Of course, a large number of people who have this gene do
not ever manifest powers but technically they are mutants (at least in
my game world).
Chris Hartjes
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 11:09:49 -0500
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: An Array Type Question
At 06:13 PM 12/6/98 -0800, Eric Chaves wrote:
>>At 01:11 AM 12/5/98 -0800, Eric Chaves wrote:
>>>
>>>I'm planning on developing a group of high-tec hocky-like villans and I had
>>>a question on the mechanics of a power. The SFX would be that any of the
>>>"hockey team" could pick up the "puck" and shoot it towards the heroes.
>>>There would only be one puck between the group. I'm planning to base it on
>>>a EB vs. PD but how would I mechanically base it on the whole group?
>>>
[snip]
>Yes, there is one puck that can be passed between each of team. Each of
>the team members could "shoot" the puck at someone.
>
This seems like a good use for the Limited Power disadvantage. Just buy the
Energy Blast for each character, with the limitation "Only While in
Possession of the Puck". Presumably the puck could be passed between
playesr - either use throwing rules for this, or a simple PS: Hockey Player
roll.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:43:37 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: RE: Article on Canada (fwd)
From: Nick Laurent
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-champ-l@sysabend.org
> [mailto:owner-champ-l@sysabend.org]On
> > Behalf Of Filksinger
> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 1998 12:18 PM
> > To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> > Subject: RE: Article on Canada (fwd)
> >
> >
> >
> > If they did it in 2 days, then they were travelling 24
> hours a day, in
> > a straight line, at about 190 miles per hour.
> >
> > It takes nearly 24 hours, at legal speeds, to travel from
> Seattle to
> > Los Angeles. Much shorter, and much closer to a straight line.
> >
> > Filksinger
> >
> > Filksinger
> >
> >
>
> Using MSN Expedia Maps, its 4880 miles from Fairbanks,
> Alaska to Miami,
> Florida. And it would take 3 days, 11 hours, and 38 minutes
> to get there
> (83:38). For some reason it couldn't calculate from Point
> Barrow to Key
> West, because you have to take a ferry at one end or the
> other (Point
> Barrow, probably). But that should be close enough. It's
> pretty far, and of
> course, that distance is calculated without stops.
>
Sounds reasonable. I was working on the assumption that he was correct
in his 9,000 miles, and the (even worse) assumption that this was a
straight line. I didn't have time to look up either one.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:43:34 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: RE: How do you define 'mutant'
From: Mike Christodoulou
>
>
> At 05:47 PM 12/7/98 -0800, Eric Wylie wrote:
> >
> > I'd like to hear how many of you define a mutant in your Champions
> > campaigns. At what point does a norm become a mutant?
>
>
>
> Well, hopefully a biologist can check in on this, but for
> now, maybe this
> will do. A mutant is a creature whose DNA has been changed
> in some manner.
> Mutations actually occur periodically in any species, which
> is the basis
> of the whole Darwin thing. The mutation can be as subtle
> as a slightly
> elongated ear, or as dramatic as an extra limb.
Not exactly. It is a creature whose DNA is different than its parents,
but which was made different before birth by damage to the parent's
reproductive cells.
> If the character in question receives his powers as the result of a
> change to his DNA, then he's a mutant. (Though what a
> "mutant detector"
> might be, I can't guess.) Spiderman often swears that he
> is not a mutant,
> but in fact, I think he is.
Since he wasn't born with his powers, and his powers were not a
side-effect of stimulating the "X" portion of his brain, he isn't a
mutant by traditional definition or Marvel definition. I have never
figured out exactly why all mutants and only mutants have this portion
of the brain stimulated, however.
<snip>
> > In addition, if a character is a mutant in some way, have
> you ever let a
> > character have a perk of 'does not show up on mutant
> detectors.' If so, how
> > many points would this cost?
>
>
>
> I wouldn't call that a perk. You first have to figure out
> what this
> detector is actually detecting. If it doesn't detect what
> he is, then
> he just doesn't show up.
Essentially yes. In the Marvel Universe, the thing detected is mental
patterns indicating that the person has the "X" portion of their brain
in high gear.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 11:42:41 -0500
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
At 07:33 PM 12/6/98 -0800, Jay P Hailey wrote:
>Mutants in our game generally take a disad, "Show up on Mutant Scanners"
>worth about 5 points. Although the results can be life threatening,
>Genocide and the mutant scanners are rare enough not to allow any more of
>a limitation.
Ok ... Do you also give extra points for people who show up on
human scanners or people who show up on redhead scanners or people
who show up on flight scanners? Personally, I'd just call it part
of the character conception. Now, if mutants are routinely hunted
or persecuted throughout the campaign, that would be one thing. But
free points just for showing up on a scanner?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:49:20 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
<snippage>
Give me a break. I've scrapped FH monsters with more than 120 BOD, as
well as damage reduction. That 100 million BOD looks about right to me.
I'd also give a planet 75% resistant damage reduction and heavy regen.
Yes, I realize that makes the Death Star very very expensive to buy but
then you wouldn't want every two bit galactic empire to have their own
death star, would you? I don't care what tables and charts you've got,
the earth is something that we geologists refer to as Very Very Big. A
football team has more than 120 BOD.
If you come around to my way of thinking, it results in a great sense of
security and well being. Even if there's a plane crash today [great big
move through], the Earth keeps turning. Yaaaaay! Earth!
BRI
] > Now a hex of dirt has 16 body (BBB 177). Now the earth
] is some 13000
] >km thick or 6 500 000 hexes. This means that it is going to
] take about
] >100 000 000 body (ignoring any defences for different
] strata) to blow a
] >hole through the "wall" (read planet). Every body point above that
] >doubles the size of the hole. Make the hole big enough, and no more
] >planet.
]
] Nope. Look at the barrier rules; if a solid block of steel
] as thick as a
] planet doesn't get that kind of Body, it's hard to assume the
] planet does.
] Admittedly the 90 Body _would_ just punch a hex wide hole through the
] Earth...but about the time you hit, oh, 120, the result is
] pretty ugly. The
] logarithmic system in Hero does some very nice things in
] spots, especially
] for a superhero game, but it also produces some godawful
] buggy results that
] have to be patched carefully or you run into wierd border
] conditions at some
] point.
]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:43:22 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: RE: How do you define 'mutant'
From: Eric Wylie
>>I'd like to hear how many of you define a mutant in your Champions
campaigns.
>>At what point does a norm become a mutant? I have a player who
insists his
>>character is not a mutant and I don't agree. The character in
question is a
>>mini-superman; flight, super strength, speed, n-ray, etc... The
character is
>>not an alien. The (limited) background given is that he is a
longshoreman
>>that gained super powers one day. I cannot get the player to
explain this
>>'defining moment.' The way I see it, if the character exceeds NHCM
and/or can
>>fly, see through buildings, etc..., he has mutated beyond an
ordinary person
>>as is a mutant. Do agree/disagree?
>>
>>In addition, if a character is a mutant in some way, have you ever
let a
>>character have a perk of 'does not show up on mutant detectors.' If
so, how
>>many points would this cost?
>>
>>Regards,
>>Eric
Well, in the real world, a mutant is a creature born with genetics
noticeably altered when compared to its parents. In a superhero world,
they are typically members of a group whose genetics are noticeably
different than the rest of mankind in some detectable way, and who got
these powers by being born with them in their genes. The original
member of a mutant line was a mutant in the traditional sense.
So, the character above would not necessarily be a mutant. However, if
he continues to refuse to tell you how the character got the powers,
then either a) require that he tell you, and if the character was born
with them, inform the player that makes his character a mutant, or b)
inform him that if he won't give you an origin, _you_ will create one
for him. Don't make him a mutant (since that was what he requested),
and it may even appear to the character (and maybe even the player) to
have been out of the blue, with no explanation, but he has to accept
your origin if he won't make one.
He will probably create an origin, just so you don't create one for
him, but regardless, you will have an origin for him.
Filksinger
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #78
****************************
Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 01:51 PM