Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 9

Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 1:36 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #8

champ-l-digest Tuesday, November 3 1998 Volume 01 : Number 008



In this issue:

Re: CW questions
Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic
Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic
Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic
Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic
Re: Disadvantages for an angelic player character.
Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic
Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic
Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic
Re: Disadvantages for an angelic player character.
NRAY on enhanced senses ?
Re: NRAY on enhanced senses ?
Re: NRAY on enhanced senses ?
Senses and Detect
Re: Shadow of a Doubt
Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)
Re: NRAY on enhanced senses ?
Re: Cyber-Hero
Re: NRAY on enhanced senses ?
Re: Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)
Re: Cyber-Hero
Re: Cyber-Hero
Re: Cyber-Hero
Off Topic: British Wildlife.
Re: Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)
Re: Cyber-Hero
PBEM - EPIC UNIVERSE - RIO DE JANEIRO
Re: Cyber-Hero
Re: Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)
Re: Cyber-Hero
Re: Cyber-Hero

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:51:31 -0600
From: "Daniel" <drake01@flash.net>
Subject: Re: CW questions

From wht i heard is it can be done but it runs a little slow

>>(2) Have any of the Mac users on the list attempted to use Creation
>>Workshop on a Power Mac running Virtual PC?
>
> I can't help you with that one, being a PC user. Sorry. :-]
>---
>Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROs member]
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
>Homepage of the Merry-Go-Round Webring! (Wanna join?)
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:32:21 -0800 (PST)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic

- ---Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> wrote:
>
>
> How would you handle a spell that allowed you to enter into and fiddle
> with another person's dreams?
>
> X-Dim Travel?

Probably not.


> Telepathy?

Probably, among other effects.


> Something else?

Lots of something elses.


"Fiddle with person's dreams" is just a special effect. Set the SFx
aside for amoment and think about what the actual game effect you want
to accomplish is, then choose the appropriate powers to accomplish
that. I would imagine that most of the effect end up being Mental
Powers, but not neccessarily all of them.

What exactly do you want to be the end result of you having fiddled
with someone's dreams?


==
=======================================
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
Keeper of the Champions / Hero System mailing
list. http://www.sysabend.org/champions
=======================================
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 12:05:05 -0500
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic

At 08:32 AM 11/2/98 -0800, John Desmarais wrote:
>---Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> How would you handle a spell that allowed you to enter into and fiddle
>> with another person's dreams?
>>
>> X-Dim Travel?
>
>Probably not.
>

Both DC and Marvel have depicted a dream dimension, so this would be one
good comic-booky approach. I'd only use it if it was appropriate for a
given campaign, though.

>
>> Telepathy?
>
>Probably, among other effects.
>
>
>> Something else?
>
>Lots of something elses.
>

I'd lean towards Mental Illusions, Only vs. Sleeping Targets (-1). Toss in
a Mind Scanning, and you have control over the dreams of everyone around you.

>
>"Fiddle with person's dreams" is just a special effect. Set the SFx
>aside for amoment and think about what the actual game effect you want
>to accomplish is, then choose the appropriate powers to accomplish
>that. I would imagine that most of the effect end up being Mental
>Powers, but not neccessarily all of them.
>
>What exactly do you want to be the end result of you having fiddled
>with someone's dreams?
>

Knowing what effects you want is always the key consideration in building
Hero characters.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:55:25 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic

>How would you handle a spell that allowed you to enter into and fiddle
>with another person's dreams?
>
>X-Dim Travel?
>
>Telepathy?


Champions handles most physical effects admirably. While it handles other
effects just as well, like entering people's dreams, it is sometimes
necessary to know how dreams are handled in the particular game. Either or
both of these powers may allow you to enter a person's dream, depending on
what the GM will allow.

I tend to like Telepathy for this: you are still getting information from
the person's mind, even if it is in symbolic form, and that is the province
of that power. The idea that you can be in danger in the dream, or need to
be "asleep" to use it, are limitations on the power. If, however, I wanted a
Dreamlands that was an important aspect of the campaign and was easier to
enter, I'd use XDM. In fact, the campaign universe I'm working on now, which
is in one of the times of the Hero Universe, will use this instead.

JAJ, GP

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:13:05 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic

>I wouldn't use "X-Dim Travel" unless the GM says that the "Dream-Time"
>is a separate dimension. Even then, the player would have to have other
>powers to affect the dreams.


A quibble: that statement is a little too limiting. I could see a GM not
having a literal Dream-Time dimension in the game but still allowing the
power XDM to take you into someone's dream, if in all important particulars
it worked more like XDM than mental powers. That is, if the person is
interacting with "beings", can be put in actual danger, and so on. It may be
felt to work out more simply than the comparitively more complex Mental
Powers.

Everything else I can agree with. I even agree here, especially since you
said, "[you] wouldn't use", so how can I argue? (-;

JAJ, GP

------------------------------

Date: 02 Nov 1998 12:39:12 -500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Disadvantages for an angelic player character.

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

"F" == Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> writes:

>> As I said, mortal rules do not apply to angels or the Creator.

F> Which has nothing to do with whether or not deaths ordered by God are
F> murder,

Uh, Filk? It has *EVERYTHING* to do with it. If I kill someone, it is
murder; if St. Michael kills someone at the Creator's request, it is not.
The rules that apply to me do not apply to St. Michael.

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNj3uPoJfryJUlUjZEQIFxACfa1GE/ChD51+rJZrTVGA8u3r2i/YAn1Ng
T1mr1GARCsUEvqW8zXkUqeZh
=SY/D
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
\

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 98 18:02:32
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic

On Sun, 01 Nov 1998 23:18:23 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:

>How would you handle a spell that allowed you to enter into and fiddle
>with another person's dreams?

Is this just the SFX or an actual power? If the latter, then Mental
Illusions.
qts

Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.

------------------------------

Date: 02 Nov 1998 13:29:13 -500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

"SN" == Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> writes:

SN> How would you handle a spell that allowed you to enter into and fiddle
SN> with another person's dreams?

What are you trying to accomplish by doing so?

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNj3594JfryJUlUjZEQLy+ACdE/OgecB5jiFuTp8H1F6zG/W8p6wAoPUu
oknrVAL0DsVcwjXm9utZhfjl
=5MUz
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
\

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:28:20 -0600 (CST)
From: gilberg@ou.edu
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic

>> X-Dim Travel?
>
>Probably not.

Well, it depends on how you want to define dreams. Handling them as
being some alternate dimension would be quite possible. However, the SFX of
how going in to change them works would be quite different -- perhaps
dangerous. You'd probably need something like CE within that dimension.


-Tim Gilberg

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:36:08 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Disadvantages for an angelic player character.

From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>


>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>"F" == Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> writes:
>
>>> As I said, mortal rules do not apply to angels or the Creator.
>
>F> Which has nothing to do with whether or not deaths ordered by God are
>F> murder,
>
>Uh, Filk? It has *EVERYTHING* to do with it. If I kill someone, it is
>murder; if St. Michael kills someone at the Creator's request, it is not.
>The rules that apply to me do not apply to St. Michael.


Uh, I think you are misunderstanding me. I _said_ that it wasn't murder when
done at the Creator's request. The point was that if it isn't murder to kill
at the Creator's request, then this has nothing to do with whether or not
_angels_ are bound by the ten commandments, it only means _God_ is not, and
that angels obeying God are therefore not violating the commandments.

Angels, assuming they have free will, may very well be bound by "Thou shall
not commit murder". Since killings that are ordained by God are not murder,
angels may kill millions at the order of God, and it has nothing to do with
"murder". If, however, an angel has free will, it may freely choose to kill,
and as the angel made the decision, the restriction "Thou shall not commit
murder" may well apply.

Filksinger

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:31:29 -0600 (CST)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: NRAY on enhanced senses ?

When defining new enhanced senses, presumably the special effect determines
what stops or blocks the sense, in other words what the sense can not sense
THROUGH. So, what stops spatial awareness ? Does it make sense to buy
N-ray on spatial awareness ? what if I had a sense defined as "detect mass,
discriminatory". Could I detect a 10 ton boulder buried 5 feet underground ?

Curt

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:55:51 -0800 (PST)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: NRAY on enhanced senses ?

- --Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> wrote:
>
>
> When defining new enhanced senses, presumably the special effect
determines
> what stops or blocks the sense, in other words what the sense can
not sense
> THROUGH. So, what stops spatial awareness ? Does it make sense to
buy
> N-ray on spatial awareness ?

Hmmm, there's a logic flaw here. N-Ray Vision is not a sense
modifier, it is a sense unto itself (as opposed to say
"Discriminatory" or "360 degree" which are modifiers to a sense), so
no, it does not make sense to buy N-Ray on Spatial Awareness.

> What if I had a sense defined as "detect mass,
> discriminatory". Could I detect a 10 ton boulder buried 5 feet
underground ?

You'd need to make it ranged, and possibly define the sense a little
better to narrow the scope a bit (Detect Density maybe?)


==
=======================================
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
Keeper of the Champions / Hero System mailing
list. http://www.sysabend.org/champions
=======================================
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:37:25 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: NRAY on enhanced senses ?

>
>When defining new enhanced senses, presumably the special effect determines
>what stops or blocks the sense, in other words what the sense can not sense
>THROUGH. So, what stops spatial awareness ? Does it make sense to buy
>N-ray on spatial awareness ? what if I had a sense defined as "detect mass,
>discriminatory". Could I detect a 10 ton boulder buried 5 feet underground ?
>

I think it varies. In some cases, the nature of the sense will sense
through some blocking materials in a limited way, and nothing further is
required, because what's going to interfere with the sense is more of the
same information feeding in. I could probably pick up the boulder in the
latter case, but bury it a hundred feet down, and all the other dense
materials in the way would make it like trying to see through progressive
screens.

On the other hand, for some sorts of Spatial Awareness, adding on N-Ray
might indeed be necessary.

Sorry about the two copies, Curt; I've been off this list so long I tend to
forget that it has the individual as a Sent-To rather than the list.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 14:45:59 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Senses and Detect

>> When defining new enhanced senses, presumably the special effect
>>determines what stops or blocks the sense, in other words what the sense can
>>not sense THROUGH. So, what stops spatial awareness ? Does it make
sense to
>>buy N-ray on spatial awareness ?
>
>Hmmm, there's a logic flaw here. N-Ray Vision is not a sense
>modifier, it is a sense unto itself (as opposed to say
>"Discriminatory" or "360 degree" which are modifiers to a sense), so
>no, it does not make sense to buy N-Ray on Spatial Awareness.

I buy NRay as a sense modifier (and tracking scent as one as well) since it
works well that way. It helps detects ignore invis, makes certain unusual
effects very powerful and defines some special effects well. Of course I
also treat Touch as a sense group, which makes very odd effects (invisible
to touch, for example).


- ----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 18:48:48 +0000
From: "J. W. Eiler" <jw_eiler@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Shadow of a Doubt

Date sent: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 08:22:38 -0500
To: Champions Discussion List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Shadow of a Doubt

> At 03:40 PM 10/31/98 -0500, Mike Christodoulou wrote:
> >More to the specific example I have in mind: a character who
> >can project a single thought -- "Things are not what they seem.
> >Doubt your senses." The actual effect or end result of such
> >a command would depend on the target and the current situation.
>
>
> Problem solved. For anyone who's interested, the "Headless
> Hangman" example in _Justice_Not_Law_ uses a 6d6 Mind Control,
> Set Effect (flee in terror, -1/2).

Or maybe you could run it as a 4d6 EGO Drain -- SFX would be
"Confusion."


J. W. Eiler

Sorry -- couldn't think of a sufficiently entertaining tagline.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 18:48:47 +0000
From: "J. W. Eiler" <jw_eiler@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)

From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic
Date sent: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:13:05 -0800

> >I wouldn't use "X-Dim Travel" unless the GM says that the "Dream-Time"
> >is a separate dimension. Even then, the player would have to have other
> >powers to affect the dreams.
>
>
> A quibble: that statement is a little too limiting. I could see a GM not
> having a literal Dream-Time dimension in the game but still allowing the
> power XDM to take you into someone's dream, if in all important particulars
> it worked more like XDM than mental powers. That is, if the person is
> interacting with "beings", can be put in actual danger, and so on. It may be
> felt to work out more simply than the comparitively more complex Mental
> Powers.

Hmm. I'd never thought of it that way. Of course then you get into such
topics as "How real is Dreamtime" in your campaign.

Anybody have any ideas on how they would handle a "Dream
Dimension?" Would it have its own "monsters," its own different
environment, its own "rules?" Perhaps, in Dreamtime, "INT" would be
used as "DEX," and "EGO" as "STR."

> Everything else I can agree with. I even agree here, especially since you
> said, "[you] wouldn't use", so how can I argue? (-;

<g> That's why being a GM is an art form -- everyone has a different
"angle" on how to do something.


J. W. Eiler

Thought for the day:
Dictatorship (n): a form of government under which everything
which is not prohibited is compulsory.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:50:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: NRAY on enhanced senses ?

> From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>

>
> --Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> wrote:
> >
> >
> > When defining new enhanced senses, presumably the special effect
> determines
> > what stops or blocks the sense, in other words what the sense can
> not sense
> > THROUGH. So, what stops spatial awareness ? Does it make sense to
> buy
> > N-ray on spatial awareness ?

John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>

>
> Hmmm, there's a logic flaw here. N-Ray Vision is not a sense
> modifier, it is a sense unto itself (as opposed to say
> "Discriminatory" or "360 degree" which are modifiers to a sense), so
> no, it does not make sense to buy N-Ray on Spatial Awareness.
>
Yep, I know. I was originally looking at buying N-ray on a new sense,
but saw that it was for vision only. This led me to my next question,
'what blocks enhanced senses' ? or to put it another way, if I can't use
my detect mass if there's other masses in the way, what do I buy to
give the equivalent of N-ray for the vision sense ?


Curt

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:54:02 -0800
From: jayphailey@juno.com (Jay P Hailey)
Subject: Re: Cyber-Hero

[netrunning]

>I like (and prefer) the X-D move idea.

So Cyberspace is a seperate dimesnion where people can go in Mind only,
assuming they have the proper OAF.

>> >Possibly, or just Mental Combat with a cyber-spoo special effect.
>
>This idea is used in TUM, BTW. Cybermind is a seperate catagory, I
>believe.
>
>> Oooo. now there'a an Idea. I like it.

Actually I didn't see lotss about "Cyberspace" in TUM it was more of an
off handed comment.


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:30:08 -0800 (PST)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: NRAY on enhanced senses ?

- ---Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> wrote:
>
>
> Yep, I know. I was originally looking at buying N-ray on a new sense,
> but saw that it was for vision only. This led me to my next question,
> 'what blocks enhanced senses' ? or to put it another way, if I
can't use
> my detect mass if there's other masses in the way, what do I buy to
> give the equivalent of N-ray for the vision sense ?

I assume what you're really asking is what blocks Unusual Detects.
Whatever the special effect dictates.


==
=======================================
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
Keeper of the Champions / Hero System mailing
list. http://www.sysabend.org/champions
=======================================
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 18:50:46 -0500
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)

>Hmm. I'd never thought of it that way. Of course then you get into such
>topics as "How real is Dreamtime" in your campaign.
>
>Anybody have any ideas on how they would handle a "Dream
>Dimension?" Would it have its own "monsters," its own different
>environment, its own "rules?" Perhaps, in Dreamtime, "INT" would be
>used as "DEX," and "EGO" as "STR."


We use a dream dimension -- "Dream World" as we call it -- on
occasion. It doesn't have its own "monsters" per se ... but rather
is populated by the stuff dreams are made of. That is, anything
being dreamed by somebody in the "real" world actually exists in the
Dream World.

The rules in Dream World are pretty loose. Characters can make
things happen just by thinking about it. The thoughts of others
can combine to assist a mentalist to create larger, more dramatic
effects.

All powers come under GM control -- they might be useless or might
be enhanced, depending upon how it would affect the plot. Other
than that, things are done pretty much like they would be in the
real world.


====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:52:29 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Cyber-Hero

Wayne Shaw writes:

> >Michael Surbrook writes:
>
> > Reasons to use Hero for doing CP: 1) transgenre games, 2) your
> >players want to come up with odd things outside the scope of typical
> >CP games, 3) your players want the tactical options that Hero combat
> >provides (and are good enough both with the system and as players to
> >keep from bogging down combat).

Actually, that was me writing above.

> Don't forget 4) Your players are comfortable with the Hero System, know the
> mechanics well, and don't see a reason to learn a new system simply to play
> a new genre. System portability is often one of the draws of games like
> Hero and GURPS.

That's pretty much assumed in (3). RTG (at least first edition)
was much simpler and more streamlined, and very quick to learn. If your
players know the hero system *really* well, then they'll feel constrained
in the RTG system, both in tactical terms and in character design. But
if they're anything less than experts at the Hero system, I predict the
game will bog down.

Random Thought:

Someday I want to actually make and playtest a set of "combat
cards" for use in hero combat. These would be cards representing each
standard combat maneuver (and maybe martial artists) and listing
cumulative DCV/OCV/etc issues, plus in small print the issues of which
maneuvers can be used with which other maneuvers, and describing
ancillary effects. Maybe even build in the SPD issues, though I
can't think of any easy way to do this offhand.

Each player would have a deck customized to only list valid
maneuvers for the character (i.e. the martial artist probably doesn't
need the "spread" manuever) and could lay cards down to represent what
the player is doing. In theory this would make play go more smoothly
and keep more "state" on what each player is doing out in plain sight.
It would also help introduce new players to the game, and might even
get experienced players to use more of the various optional maneuvers
and modifiers.

Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com

P.S. Anybody know of a game near Pasadena in Los Angeles? I'm out
here visiting for a couple months.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:20:52 -0800
From: jayphailey@juno.com (Jay P Hailey)
Subject: Re: Cyber-Hero

> Of the approaches above, I think I favor using either: a complex
>set of skill rolls (along with a map of standard stages and tasks in
>cyberspace) for a regular game, along with good storytelling, in which
>case cyberspace takes about the same role that "lab work" or some
>other skill-based area takes. Or using a subset of the hero rules to
>define the physics of the cyberspace dimension and see how you can
>play with that. In practical terms, though, the latter course means
>the game is all about cyberspace. Which can be fun enough in its own
>right.
>
>Steven J. Owens
>puff@netcom.com

Thank you for a well thought out essay there Mr. Owens. I will
carefully consider the points you make.


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:51:53 -0800
From: jayphailey@juno.com (Jay P Hailey)
Subject: Re: Cyber-Hero

> Where I to not use Cyber Hero to do the genre (I'm in the
>minority that likes the book); I'd choose GURPS. Better researched world
info
>and it's not a character class based system like CP 2.0.2.0.
> Though GURPS' adaptation of the genre has serious play
>balance problems if you allow any armor or guns... and not allowing them
would
>be odd given the genre.
> Though it can be worked out if you watch every piece of
>equipment allowed in the game. Which was not as hard to do as it sounds.

Well our Vista City game is a "proto" CyberPunk setup. The tecnnology
and the social trends are in the early phases of heading that way. So
there is no Cyberspace per say, but there is the Internet and whatever
that will morph into as we go along.

If I were to try and run a straight cyberpunk game I would probably steal
a grewat deal of the setting and background fro CP 2020, and use the Hero
system.

But then I prefer the Hero system for everything. I also own GURPS
Cyberpunk. I would do a carefull side by side comparison of the two
Cyberspace systems for which one I would steal and use.


Jay P. Hailey <Meow!>


___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 18:15:23 -0600
From: Tim Statler <tstatler@igateway.net>
Subject: Off Topic: British Wildlife.

I watched the live action 101 Dalmations the other night. I have a
question for the British memebers of the list.

The movie featured a group of Racoons helping the puppies escape. And
since the movie takes place in England, I was wondering if there are any
Racoons living wild in England now.

Racoons are native to North America only. But it isn't unlikely that a
few have been transplanted.

Tim Statler

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 20:28:19 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)

>>Hmm. I'd never thought of it that way. Of course then you get into such
>>topics as "How real is Dreamtime" in your campaign.
>>
>>Anybody have any ideas on how they would handle a "Dream
>>Dimension?" Would it have its own "monsters," its own different
>>environment, its own "rules?" Perhaps, in Dreamtime, "INT" would be
>>used as "DEX," and "EGO" as "STR."

One resource for "comic-book" dreams in "Champions in 3-D".

I'm still debating whether to use a Dreamworld or Telepathy and Mental
Illusions.

Since so many people asked in response to my original question, 'fiddling with
dreams' is -not- a SFX. It -is- what I'm trying to do. Not drain or
attack or
anything else. Just interact with someone's dreams.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For in far foreign fields, from Dunkirk to Belgrade,
Lie the soldiers and chiefs of the Irish Brigade.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:24:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: Cyber-Hero

How do the GMs out there handle Cyberware and Implants? The system used in
Cyberhero has been pretty much univerally panned on the list so I was
looking from some alternatives.
I know violence doesn't solve all problems...
But it sure feels good!
Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 98 01:06:43 -0200
From: "Rafael Sant'Anna Meyer" <avatar@ruralrj.com.br>
Subject: PBEM - EPIC UNIVERSE - RIO DE JANEIRO

io de Janeiro, a city full of Glamour... In the past it was the best place to visit and get some nice escaped of the winter. The all year suynny weather and the good humour of the people gave the fame of the city. But bout the last 20 years the egun take control of the life of the city. Not content, a strange event hapened and a gate for other worlds was found at Floresta da Tijuca Park (the largest urban florest over the world). The presence of Demon was sensed when the press discovered he was a Mandchurian candidate. Now a millionaire take a decision to create a super group to protect and serve.

IMPORTANCE OF THE PCS: Important, they are members of the 1st super hero group at this country.

CAMPAIGN TONE: It is a 4 colour with some colors going to darker colors. Imagine this game like X-Men. The balance of both tones is the soul of the game.

Morality: Some cross-over between Good and Evil

Realism: Neutral

Outlook: Sometimes the Good Guys lose

Seriousness: Not so funny game...

Continuity: Mostly episodic, with some continuing stories

PHYSICAL WORLD (DESCRIPTION): The game will be set in Rio Janeiro and the states around.

CHARACTER BUILIDING GUIDELINES:

Starting Points for PCs: 100

Maximum Disadvantage Points for PCs: 150

Maximum Points From One Disadvantage Category: 50

Characters Automatically Have Characteristic Maxima Disadvantage At No Point Value: No

Characters Can Carry Normal Technology at Costing nothing: Yes

Power Levels:

- -Maximus damage level:12 N
- -Maximum defense:20N/10r
- -Maximum active points:65
- -Maximum skill roll at the start of the game:16-

CAMPAIGN RULES:

Combat Uses Hit Locations Table: Yes
Disabling/Impairing Rules Used: Yes

Knockdown Rules Used: No

Knockback Rules Used: Yes

Long-Term Endurance Rules Used: Yes

Limited Push: No


What you need to do your character:

Skills: Required: Modern Everyman Package, Language Portuguese (if you aren't native or English if you are native)

Recommended: None

Not Recommended: None

Disallowed: None

Talents: Required: None

Recommended: None

Powers: Required: None

Recommended: None

Not Recommended (GMs permission required): Absorption; Aid; Drain and Transfer.

Disallowed: Damage Reduction above 25% (unless limited to a single SFX)

Disadvantages: Required: None

Recommended: Normal Characteristic Maxima; Code vs. Killing (10 points); Secret Identity

Not Recommended: Berserk; Public Identity

Disallowed: None

Back ground suggestions and note:

For the people who have plans to be Brazilian character I suggest you go to Alta vista translator service to translate the characters action name's for portuguese.

Here the native language is portuguese and for us it sound like a offense you come to our country and conmfuse us with the rest of Latin America. We are the largest Portuguese speaking nation and we are proud of it... (and Spanish sounds a bit dull for us).

The persons names are based at Portuguese (of course), Italian (we have the second largest Italian colony over the world), French (in the past was chic speak french) and sometimes Japonese (we have the largest Japonese colony over the world). The last names are more based Portuguese (doh!),Spanish,Italian and even Germany (we have a significant number of germany descedents living at the south region of the country) and other Europe countries.


==========

All the mankind is made by 3 basic principles:Duality,morality and mortality

Electric Avatar
Rafael Sant' Anna Meyer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:36:51 -0600
From: "Melinda and Steven Mitchell" <mdmitche@advicom.net>
Subject: Re: Cyber-Hero

> From: Steven J. Owens <puff@netcom.com>

<snip>

> Random Thought:
>
> Someday I want to actually make and playtest a set of "combat
> cards" for use in hero combat. These would be cards representing each
> standard combat maneuver (and maybe martial artists) and listing
> cumulative DCV/OCV/etc issues, plus in small print the issues of which
> maneuvers can be used with which other maneuvers, and describing
> ancillary effects. Maybe even build in the SPD issues, though I
> can't think of any easy way to do this offhand.
>
> Each player would have a deck customized to only list valid
> maneuvers for the character (i.e. the martial artist probably doesn't
> need the "spread" manuever) and could lay cards down to represent what
> the player is doing. In theory this would make play go more smoothly
> and keep more "state" on what each player is doing out in plain sight.
> It would also help introduce new players to the game, and might even
> get experienced players to use more of the various optional maneuvers
> and modifiers.

We are using a modified version of this kind of thing for FH right now, and
have been since '92. We don't have a card for every maneuver, but we do
have one card for every weapon, with all the typical maneuvers listed.
Each card is custom designed for the player. (We use a Word '97 page,
divided into four cards.) As far as SPD is concerned, I heartily recommend
using an action die instead. Not quite what you are saying, but it does
accomplish exactly the goals you state in the second paragraph.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:40:30 -0600
From: "Melinda and Steven Mitchell" <mdmitche@advicom.net>
Subject: Re: Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)

> From: J. W. Eiler <jw_eiler@bellsouth.net>

<snip>
> Anybody have any ideas on how they would handle a "Dream
> Dimension?" Would it have its own "monsters," its own different
> environment, its own "rules?" Perhaps, in Dreamtime, "INT" would be
> used as "DEX," and "EGO" as "STR."

In my Fantasy Hero version of TSR's Forgotten Realms, I've gone the other
direction, so to speak. Instead of the "Dream Dimension" being just
dreams, or it's own special dimension, it is merely a small part of the
Astral Plane.

This fits in very well with standard Realms mythology, where, among other
things, the Astral plane provides a barrier between the prime plane and
other planes, whence dreams come. A physical traveler in the astral plane
could encounter a dream and vice versa. Likewise, particularly good or bad
dreams can have physical effects on the dreamer and others. That's why the
"powers' often communicate with dreams.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:09:01 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Cyber-Hero

>How do the GMs out there handle Cyberware and Implants? The system used in
>Cyberhero has been pretty much univerally panned on the list so I was
>looking from some alternatives.

Personally, in heroic scale games, I just consider them equipment like any
other. Fact they require surgery to apply implies some possible
complications, but other than that I don't see any reason in a non-superhero
setting to treat a cyber eye any different than I do a set of vision
enhancing goggles.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:35:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Cyber-Hero

I wrote:
> > Someday I want to actually make and playtest a set of "combat
> > cards" for use in hero combat. These would be cards representing each
> > standard combat maneuver (and maybe martial artists) and listing
> > cumulative DCV/OCV/etc issues, plus in small print the issues of which
> > maneuvers can be used with which other maneuvers, and describing
> > ancillary effects. Maybe even build in the SPD issues, though I
> > can't think of any easy way to do this offhand. [...]

Melinda and Steven Mitchell writes:
> We are using a modified version of this kind of thing for FH right now, and
> have been since '92. We don't have a card for every maneuver, but we do
> have one card for every weapon, with all the typical maneuvers listed.
> Each card is custom designed for the player. (We use a Word '97 page,
> divided into four cards.)

Sounds like a good way to organize the player's weapon info, but
I was thinking more of a way to help the player (and the GM) track the
actual flow of combat. I.e. the player decides to dodge, lays down a
"dodge" card, which shows the plus to the DCV in big bold letters in
one corner (and maybe in smaller letters shows the player's adjusted
DCV, assuming the dodge is the only maneuver card down). The card
stays down for the length of the player's phase. The GM can recall,
just by glancing at the player, what the player was doing and what the
current combat values, etc, are.

To choose a more complex example, the player makes a half-move,
lays down the half-move card (it's been a while, but if I recall
correctly, that's a -1 to OCV). Then the player lays down an attack
card, say an offensive blow, which has additional OCV and DCV
modifiers. The cards stay down until the beginning of the player's
next phase. The GM can tell the cumulative OCV/DCV/etc by glancing at
the player and also can recall what the player was doing. The novice
player can tell just by glancing at the cards whether he's allowed to
abort out or not, etc.

> As far as SPD is concerned, I heartily recommend
> using an action die instead. Not quite what you are saying, but it does
> accomplish exactly the goals you state in the second paragraph.

Using an action die is a good idea, but I was thinking more of
building the SPD into the cards. I'm still not sure how to pull this
off, but I have vague ideas of, for example, the card listing the
phases on which it can be played and when it goes away, or perhaps
some other way of looking at the SPD system which preserves the
mathematical integrity but is more visually accessible.

Personally, one of the flaws in the hero combat system I've
always been aware of is the "stutter" of combat SPD. Realistically
actions are a smooth progression. I realize the hero system is a good
compromise between playability (or just sheer feasibility) and
realism, but it'd be interesting to come up with alternatives. Here's
an example alternative off the top of my head:

Actions take a certain number of fractions of a second, modified
by the character's SPD. Each action has a number of fractions to
commit, and a number of fractions of followup. The followup has good
and bad alternatives. The action has to continue long enough for the
commit in order to get the effect (i.e. strike or grab or whatever).
If the action is interrupted by another character before the followup
is finished, however, there are negative consequences (worse DCV
minus after the strike, or weakened the grab, etc).

This kind of thing is, of course, annoyingly complicated and
awkward, but I wonder if some such system might become feasible with
the introduction of maneuver cards or some other playing aid. This is
not a fully fleshed out concept, so I don't expect it to stand up
under rigorous examination, but I would like to hear ideas, opinions,
etc.

Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com

------------------------------

End of champ-l-digest V1 #8
***************************


Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 03:29 PM