Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 9

Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 3:11 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #9

champ-l-digest Tuesday, November 3 1998 Volume 01 : Number 009



In this issue:

Re: Off Topic: British Wildlife.
Danger International / Justice Inc
RE: Danger International / Justice Inc
Re: Cyber-Hero
Re: Danger International / Justice Inc
Re: Disadvantages for an angelic player character.
Re: Disadvantages for an angelic player character.
Re: Danger International / Justice Inc
Re: Senses and Detect
Re: Disadvantages for an angelic player character.
Re[2]: Danger International / Justice Inc
Comeliness / Perception
Question about Luck
Re: Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)
RE: Re[2]: Danger International / Justice Inc
Re: Question about Luck
Re: Comeliness / Perception
Re: Question about Luck
RE: Dream Dimension
Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic
Re: Senses and Detect
Re: Question about Luck
Re: Question about Luck
Re: Disadvantages for an angelic player character.
Re: Question about Luck
Re: Question about Luck
Re: Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)
Re: Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)
Re: Question about Luck
Re: Question about Luck
Re: Comeliness / Perception

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 07:42:57 +0000
From: Michael Pegg <m.pegg@csl.gov.uk>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: British Wildlife.

At 18:15 02/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I watched the live action 101 Dalmations the other night. I have a
>question for the British memebers of the list.
>
>The movie featured a group of Racoons helping the puppies escape. And
>since the movie takes place in England, I was wondering if there are any
>Racoons living wild in England now.
>
>Racoons are native to North America only. But it isn't unlikely that a
>few have been transplanted.
>
>Tim Statler
>

Haven't seen thje film but Racoons in England!!!!
They are certainly not native, nor have I ever heard of any that have every
been released (intentionaly or not) into the wild. Now if you are talking
Panthers and other big cats thats another story.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:36:34 +0100
From: Alain.RAMEAU@total.com (Alain RAMEAU)
Subject: Danger International / Justice Inc

Hi,

I've been playing with Hero system in the modern universe of Danger
International. I had to stop because I moved. But I expect to play
again soon.

We really enjoyed the system, especially with the martial arts
supplements.


However, we've always been somewhat disturbed by the fact that when
applied to "normal" characters, even heroic ones, we lost a lot of the
system.

What I mean is that for modern era, playing spies and mercenaries
without super powers, the characteristices had a very limited range :
generally between 10 and 20 (the rules allows higher charac with
higher cost, but I don't think it is very reallistic), so a roll of 11
or 12, sometimes 13, and a speed of 2 or 3. So everything becoming
very binary , without a lot of differences between the player on those
stats (except for the skills, obviously, which are the main part of
those modern era games). Same thing with the maximum doubling
limitation on additional Damage Class, which become very limited, due
to the limited range of starting DC.

I would like to know if the other persons of the list are playing
Danger International or Justice Inc, and if they are facing the same
problems.

I was thinking of a demultiplication system of the 5-20 charac range
to resolve this point ... But I have not yet developped anything.
Does anybody have ideas or other solution ?


Thanks.


Alain.



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:53:44 -0600
From: "Hudson, Robert" <x2rhudso@southernco.com>
Subject: RE: Danger International / Justice Inc

At 2:37 AM Nov 03 Alain wrote:

>What I mean is that for modern era, playing spies and mercenaries
>without super powers, the characteristices had a very limited range
:
>generally between 10 and 20 (the rules allows higher charac with
>higher cost, but I don't think it is very reallistic), so a roll of
11
>or 12, sometimes 13, and a speed of 2 or 3. So everything becoming
>very binary , without a lot of differences between the player on
those
>stats (except for the skills, obviously, which are the main part of

>those modern era games). Same thing with the maximum doubling
>limitation on additional Damage Class, which become very limited,
due
>to the limited range of starting DC.
>
>I would like to know if the other persons of the list are playing
>Danger International or Justice Inc, and if they are facing the
same
>problems.

Alain -

I play and run in the Danger International/Justice Inc. genres
extensively, and have done so for something like the last seven years since
leaving college. Especially in the last five years or so with my current
gaming group, we've noticed the same sort of problem that you're talking
about here. Our solution [your mileage may vary depending on the maturity
and cooperative levels of your group] was to talk about it off-game and
place caps on the characters statistically speaking.

By that, I mean that each character was allowed to build up to a
single primary characteristic above 20 after gameplay commenced. The GM [in
this case, myself] also laid down restrictions on DEX and SPD because,
frankly, the idea of a six or seven-man party with a unified 20/4 was
something I had no intention of allowing. This meant that we have a mix of
DEX/SPD's across the board, with some 20/3's and some 18/3's and a few
20/4's - the most common being 18/3.

Where we made up the difference - particularly in the Justice, Inc.
game - was to personalize the characters with skills and the occasional
"non-powered power". [Things like +3" Superleap, Depends on Acrobatics Roll
and the like.] The players read up on the genre extensively, then squared
off amongst themselves and decided what 'specialty' each of their characters
would have before building them, thus keeping the party from looking like a
stack of cookie-cutter characters. This led to characters like: the
ex-professional boxer turned big game hunter; the society detective; the
lady reporter; the reformed jewel thief; the British archaeologist; the lady
pilot; etc.

As you pointed out, the skills and the character's personalities are
the real differences in this genre - the statistics are, at least to my
group, essentially a non-issue. My players aren't so wrapped up in the
mechanics that they honestly care about things like that so long as their
opposition is scaled to their abilities. If they all have 13 DEX/3 SPD, then
they know their opponents will be metered to their abilities - the actual
numbers don't mean anything.

Robert Hudson
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:23:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Cyber-Hero

On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Kim Foster wrote:

> How do the GMs out there handle Cyberware and Implants? The system used in
> Cyberhero has been pretty much univerally panned on the list so I was
> looking from some alternatives.

Goto:

http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/cyberware.html

to see my Cyberware chapter from my Kazei 5 worldbook. It discusses
various forms of cybernetics and how to handle them.

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: 03 Nov 1998 10:09:14 -500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Danger International / Justice Inc

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

"AR" == Alain RAMEAU <Alain.RAMEAU@total.com> writes:

AR> I was thinking of a demultiplication system of the 5-20 charac range
AR> to resolve this point ... But I have not yet developped anything.
AR> Does anybody have ideas or other solution ?

I posted that idea here some two or three years ago for exactly that
reason. To wit, if a character has a 16 Dexterity, his DEX roll is 16-.

It seemed to go over reasonably well, even if it was blatantly stolen from
GURPS (then again, GURPS is blatantly stolen from Champions, so there :).

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNj8cloJfryJUlUjZEQKWfQCfehQkvyLfIP7IgX0K6Kc5O5XOEegAoNbk
cQ/RaMSDIsc906zamjufx3If
=RlAm
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.

------------------------------

Date: 03 Nov 1998 10:17:56 -500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Disadvantages for an angelic player character.

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

"F" == Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> writes:

F> Angels, assuming they have free will,

They certainly do; cf. the fall of the Devil and his angels.

F> may very well be bound by "Thou shall not commit murder".

Catholic schollars do not agree. Murder -- the willful and deliberate
taking of another's life -- is murder.

F> Since killings that are ordained by God are not murder,

Ordained murder is not a sin, at least not for the angel responsible for
doing murder.

As I have said umpteen times already: mortal rules do not apply TO THE
CREATOR AND HIS MINIONS!!!

Please, note the conjunction 'and' in that statement.

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNj8emoJfryJUlUjZEQKCwQCfUpGFPPYHHbzLuvvlwNIzTu1+lMwAoMnn
czaIfnL8hy85K9YUSesox9uF
=jhBz
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
\ Earth, presumably from outer space.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 10:26:59 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Disadvantages for an angelic player character.

>F> Angels, assuming they have free will,
>
>They certainly do; cf. the fall of the Devil and his angels.
>
>F> may very well be bound by "Thou shall not commit murder".
>
>Catholic schollars do not agree. Murder -- the willful and deliberate
>taking of another's life -- is murder.
>
>F> Since killings that are ordained by God are not murder,
>
>Ordained murder is not a sin, at least not for the angel responsible for
>doing murder.
>
>As I have said umpteen times already: mortal rules do not apply TO THE
>CREATOR AND HIS MINIONS!!!
>
>Please, note the conjunction 'and' in that statement.

While I agree with you, repeating something does not make it so. The others
may disagree. You correctly state Catholid doctrine. They may not be
Catholic,
or may not care whether the character reflects that origin. Champions being a
comic-book medium, they may prefer a comic-book angel.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For in far foreign fields, from Dunkirk to Belgrade,
Lie the soldiers and chiefs of the Irish Brigade.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 10:59:04 -0500 (EST)
From: aregalad@miami.edu
Subject: Re: Danger International / Justice Inc

Hello,

> However, we've always been somewhat disturbed by the fact that when
> applied to "normal" characters, even heroic ones, we lost a lot of the
> system.
>
> What I mean is that for modern era, playing spies and mercenaries
> without super powers, the characteristices had a very limited range :
> generally between 10 and 20 (the rules allows higher charac with
> higher cost, but I don't think it is very reallistic), so a roll of 11
> or 12, sometimes 13, and a speed of 2 or 3. So everything becoming
> very binary , without a lot of differences between the player on those
> stats (except for the skills, obviously, which are the main part of
> those modern era games). Same thing with the maximum doubling
> limitation on additional Damage Class, which become very limited, due
> to the limited range of starting DC.

Well, alot of this is relative. Keep in mind that in most RPGs, people act
once/turn (or the equivalent), so having speeds range from 1-4 really is a
bit more nuanced than some RPGs. As far as DCs are concerned, I wouldn't
mess with those. A range of 2d6 through 8d6 is impressive enough - even if
most people end up about the same. The one area where I share some of your
concerns is in stat rolls. I've changed stat bases and skill bases in my
campaign to CHAR/3 + 7. It provides for a more gradual progression, and
hence a little more diversity. (Just a little, but at least its
something).

> I was thinking of a demultiplication system of the 5-20 charac range
> to resolve this point ... But I have not yet developped anything.
> Does anybody have ideas or other solution ?

What did you have in mind?

Take care,

Dragonfly

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:11:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: Senses and Detect

>
> From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
>
> I buy NRay as a sense modifier (and tracking scent as one as well) since it
> works well that way. It helps detects ignore invis, makes certain unusual
> effects very powerful and defines some special effects well. Of course I
> also treat Touch as a sense group, which makes very odd effects (invisible
> to touch, for example).
>
>

How do you charge for NRay as a sense modifier ?


Curt

------------------------------

Date: 03 Nov 1998 11:31:31 -500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Disadvantages for an angelic player character.

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

"SN" == Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com> writes:

SN> Champions being a comic-book medium, they may prefer a comic-book
SN> angel.

Which is why, if you trace the thread back, you will see that I started
this by trying to answer the question, "what is an angel?"

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNj8v4oJfryJUlUjZEQLLXACg9Km0wZPOOSeCkAX4XifWkQSF3QEAn0Js
1nbBb/DZXD2k3QVDSKOt1AGF
=DmcI
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
\

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:28:56 +0100
From: Alain.RAMEAU@total.com (Alain RAMEAU)
Subject: Re[2]: Danger International / Justice Inc






>I've changed stat bases and skill
>bases in my campaign to CHAR/3 + 7. It provides for a more gradual
>progression, and hence a little more diversity. (Just a little, but at
>least its something).

I like the idea !

Have you also envisaged charac/2+5 ? That was more the range I had in
mind.


The ultimate system I can think of is having skill roll= charac (1 for
1) but the costs of the charac point have to be completely modified
(something like 10 pts per 1 points of charac) and the damage class
too for STR too(under 10=DC, 10 to 12=2DC, 13=3DC, 14=4DC and so on)

Alain.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:38:45 +0100
From: Alain.RAMEAU@total.com (Alain RAMEAU)
Subject: Comeliness / Perception

I prefer to treat the comeliness as a "talent" or a desadvantage,
rather than having it as a charac above 10 or below 10.

And I don't like a lot the Perception roll, which is important, and is
just an INT one. I would add a charcteristic of PER (cost 1 or 2 per
point). In fact, hard scientists in movies are generally shown wearing
spectacles and somewhat absent minded. Which does not go well with a
perception based upon INT charac !

Any opinions ?


Alain.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 12:04:23 -0500
From: Chris Hartjes <chris@ergmusic.com>
Subject: Question about Luck

I'm bulding a character with some ungodly amount of Luck and wanted to
know if you can apply Area Effect to Luck.

- --
Chris Hartjes
Entertainment Resources Group
chris@ergmusic.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:43:46 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)

>Since so many people asked in response to my original question, 'fiddling
with
>dreams' is -not- a SFX. It -is- what I'm trying to do. Not drain or
>attack or
>anything else. Just interact with someone's dreams.


<lecture>
Actually, 'fiddling with dreams' certainly -is- the SFX. There is no Hero
Systems power that is "fiddle with dreams": the powers are more generic than
that. In this case, though, there are several levels: there's the thing that
you do that allows it (psionics, magic, science), the basic idea (interact
with dreams), the effect you want (communication, information gathering,
disturbing sleep with nightmares, and so on), and finally the power you use
to simulate that effect.
</lecture>

What you want is to be able to enter the person's dreams, interact in a
pseudo-physical manner with the substance and setting of that dream,
including the dreamer, and, as you say, you don't want to damage or
otherwise affect the target. Correct?

Telepathy with limitations is sufficient for these effects. Since Telepathy
allows you to project memories into the targets mind, and since dreams can
be viewed as memories processed into symbols (over-simplified, and certainly
opinions vary), you can modify the dream in this way. You can put
limitations on the power if you want to be in danger from the dream
(possibly based on Side Effect, if a dream creature attacks you, perhaps
going off if you don't exceed the target's Ego by enough), and get Full
Concentration on the power since you are "elsewhere". And I don't think
anyone will argue that you can view the dreams with this power, and
communicate within them with the target.

If needed, also take Only to Influence Dreams Mental Illusions to influence
the dreams based on your actions: the illusion is that you are there and can
do these things.

This is expensive, slightly complex, and requires a number of rolls to enter
the dream and then alter it. The Extra-Dimensional Movement is easier to
play and cheaper (40 APts, assuming each dream is in a sense a seperate
dimension, 20 if its just one), but really only works if the GM has rules
for, or just a good idea of, how Dreaming works. One advantage of using the
Mental Powers is that they give a defense against your intrusion, which the
XDM won't unless the Dream is crafted with defenses in mind.

Either of these methods can be role-played through. Basically, if the trip
is just a way of gaining information, and is going to be mostly based on
rolls with the GM describing results and maybe some light role-playing, go
for the Mental Powers: they're self-contained and reasonably well balanced.
If you plan to have full blown adventures in the Dream, and don't want to
get bogged down just trying to get in, buy the XDM.

JAJ, GP

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:24:53 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Danger International / Justice Inc

> >I've changed stat bases and skill
> >bases in my campaign to CHAR/3 + 7. It provides for a more gradual
> >progression, and hence a little more diversity. (Just a little, but
> at
> >least its something).
>
> I like the idea !
>
> Have you also envisaged charac/2+5 ? That was more the range I
> had in
> mind.
>
>
> The ultimate system I can think of is having skill roll= charac
> (1 for
> 1) but the costs of the charac point have to be completely
> modified
> (something like 10 pts per 1 points of charac) and the damage
> class
> too for STR too(under 10=DC, 10 to 12=2DC, 13=3DC, 14=4DC and so
> on)
>
[Brian Wawrow] I think you'd have less modification work to do
if you just said that 30 [30 is an arbitrary number] was human racial
max and said that a character's deadlift doubled for every 10 pts of STR
and left everything else the same. You'd maybe add a DC to each weapon
and you're done. I can't see anything else you'd have to fudge to keep
things consistent.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:32:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Question about Luck

On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Chris Hartjes wrote:

> I'm bulding a character with some ungodly amount of Luck and wanted to
> know if you can apply Area Effect to Luck.

Well, once you buy 5d6 or more of luck, doesn't it start to affect people
around you as well?

***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:39:41 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Comeliness / Perception

> I prefer to treat the comeliness as a "talent" or a desadvantage,
> rather than having it as a charac above 10 or below 10.


Coincidentally, that's the way it works in Fuzion: Comeliness is a talent
that improves a small skill set, in Hero it would just be three point or
even five point levels with a set of skills that you wanted to use it with.

However, it is a long-standing characteristic in Hero, so it doesn't seem
the time to change in the official rules. It makes a certain amount of
sense: everyone has an appearance, so it's a characteristic. Of course, that
doesn't stop someone from removing the characteristic and replacing it with
the skill levels like I described or whatever else they like.

> And I don't like a lot the Perception roll, which is important, and is
> just an INT one. I would add a charcteristic of PER (cost 1 or 2 per
> point). In fact, hard scientists in movies are generally shown wearing
> spectacles and somewhat absent minded. Which does not go well with a
> perception based upon INT charac !

INT is an overall measure of your mental prowess. I have no particular
problem with it giving you your base Perception roll as well, and it is a
very common role-playing convention for it to do so. Storyteller, for
example, breaks what we (Hero players ;) would call INT into three stats,
which adds in my opinion unnecessary complication to a normally simple
situation.

If you want someone who is brilliant but absent-minded or near-sighted, or a
number of other things, those would be Disadvantages given to a
high-intelligence (or any, for that matter) character. The alternative you
propose is making the game more complex, if only slightly so, for all
characters to build a specific type of character. Very intelligent people
frequently are also perceptive, and when they're not, there is often what in
Champions is a specific disadvantage that makes them less so, like the ones
described.

But, as always, make the changes you like. I wouldn't charge more for it
than for INT, however, and would probably charge less unless you want to
also change the costs of things like Enhanced Perception (which may be the
only needed change, but I'm not sure).

JAJ, GP

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:45:05 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Question about Luck

I'm pretty sure it says somewhere that you can't apply advantages and
limitations to Talents. However, I've never known anyone to use that rule,
if my memory isn't just playing tricks, and I certainly don't.

So, technically, maybe not, but I'd allow it. Although, all you really need
is enough dice to on average get four 6's: 24 dice usually does the trick.

JAJ, GP

>I'm bulding a character with some ungodly amount of Luck and wanted to
>know if you can apply Area Effect to Luck.
>
>--
>Chris Hartjes
>Entertainment Resources Group
>chris@ergmusic.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:57:07 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Dream Dimension

Here's my two cents on dream manipulation.

Here's what I'd require of a player, probably in an EC for use
in parallel.

[1] Desolid with the 'leaves physical body' disad to simulate an
astral projection style approach. You could just use Mind Scan if the
player wants to be a little safer but I think leaving your physical body
behind lends itself more to entering a dreamtime reference frame.

[2] Telepathy to view the dream as it's happening and reference
relevant symbols in the target's subconscious. Probably bought with
[only for dreams] at -1 or so.

[3] Mental Illusions to change, create or control a dream. Also
bought with [only for dreams]. At high levels, you can pull off Freddy
Krueger type attacks

Some other stuff (all bought with the +1 advantage Ego Power)
you could add to that might be...
[a] EGO Drain with a recovery rate of 5pts./day to simulate a
confused an unsettled mind the next day
[b] REC Drain with 5pts./day recovery to simulate a restless
night's sleep.
[c] Mind Control bought with a trigger to plant subliminal
suggestions.
[d] Stun Drain or END Drain (this is a GM's call I think) to
keep your target sleeping while you do your dirty work
[e] Images or Invisibility so your ghostly astral form can
remain unseen or look like the target's mom.

Well? What do you think, list?
BRI

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:06:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic

> X-Dim Travel or Telepathy
if the PC is in active danger inside the dreams, then I'd use XDT.
if the PC is merely observing the dream, I'd use Telepathy.
if the PC can observe and interact or effect, then I'd mental illusions.

your XDT could have the same limitations as Astral Desolid: leave body
behind.
==
Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 10:07:37 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Senses and Detect

>> I buy NRay as a sense modifier (and tracking scent as one as well) since it
>> works well that way. It helps detects ignore invis, makes certain unusual
>> effects very powerful and defines some special effects well. Of course I
>> also treat Touch as a sense group, which makes very odd effects (invisible
>> to touch, for example).
>
>How do you charge for NRay as a sense modifier ?

The standard cost. I figure NRay is a sense modifier on sight as written,
20 points to ignore most intervening objects

- ----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 13:07:47 -0500
From: Chris Hartjes <chris@ergmusic.com>
Subject: Re: Question about Luck

Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Chris Hartjes wrote:
>
> > I'm bulding a character with some ungodly amount of Luck and wanted to
> > know if you can apply Area Effect to Luck.
>
> Well, once you buy 5d6 or more of luck, doesn't it start to affect people
> around you as well?
>

The reason I'm asking is that I don't have the rulebook in front of me
(I'm at work) so I'm just sketching out the character conecpt and
putting together some rough numbers.

- --
Chris Hartjes
Entertainment Resources Group
chris@ergmusic.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:22:08 +0000
From: "J. W. Eiler" <jw_eiler@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Question about Luck

Date sent: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 12:04:23 -0500
From: Chris Hartjes <chris@ergmusic.com>
Organization: Entertainment Resources Group
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Subject: Question about Luck

> I'm bulding a character with some ungodly amount of Luck and wanted to
> know if you can apply Area Effect to Luck.

Luck over 3D6 starts affecting your friends who are in the area.

A couple of things to remember about luck -- the "book" maximum is
5D6. Have a good, long talk with your GM, and have him/her really think
about whether or not they want to mess with the game mechanics
before you go and buy more than 5D6. Also, the way the book states it,
luck is ONLY to get your charachter out of a jam -- when the chips are
down, so to speak.

In our campaign, we have a house rule that "all Luck must be balanced
by equal levels of Unluck," unless that would really mess with the
charachter conception. I've also introduced a "sliding point scale" to
purchase luck:

Luck Dice Points
1 5 pts.
2 10 pts.
3 15 pts.
4 20 pts.
5 25 pts.

So 5D6 of luck costs 75 pts.

Luck, needless to say, is not terribly popular in my campaign -- wonder
why <g>?


J. W. Eiler

Thought for the day:
If you can keep your head -- you get to live forever

(Oops -- sorry. Wrong movie)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:39:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Disadvantages for an angelic player character.

> Which is why, if you trace the thread back, you will see that I
started
> this by trying to answer the question, "what is an angel?"
IN MY CAMPAIGN, angels are free-willed spiritual beings.
They have some aspects of humanoids, some aspects of pure spirits.
They are the bridge or link life-form in between gods (spirit)
and mankind (flesh). some angels are "good" some are "evil",
some are known by different names. eg: devil, angel, demon, deva,
solar, etc.
'Most of them do not exercise their free will, they stay subservient to
the god/gods they associate with, and thus IMC are bound by the laws of
that god. if some of my religions, gods, or angels resemble biblical
doctrine, so what?

A PC angel ought to have some free will, thus putting a delicious
edge on otherwise boring moral quandaries.
==
Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:39:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Question about Luck

J. W. Eiler writes:
> A couple of things to remember about luck -- the "book" maximum is
> 5D6. Have a good, long talk with your GM, and have him/her really think
> about whether or not they want to mess with the game mechanics
> before you go and buy more than 5D6. Also, the way the book states it,
> luck is ONLY to get your charachter out of a jam -- when the chips are
> down, so to speak.

Huh? No, the book maximum on _unluck_ is 5d6. No limit on luck. The book
also doesn't specify exactly what luck is for -- the basic rule for luck is
that it only gets rolled when the GM chooses to allow it to be rolled.

As a rule, if you want luck on a character in a _controllable_ way, don't do
this with luck -- do this with other powers, with a special effect of 'luck'.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 13:48:16 -0500
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Question about Luck

At 12:04 PM 11/3/98 -0500, Chris Hartjes wrote:
>I'm bulding a character with some ungodly amount of Luck and wanted to
>know if you can apply Area Effect to Luck.
>

Probably. No reason why not.

On the other hand, if I'm reading the rules correctly, Luck
pretty much has an area effect built into it. With a sufficiently
high roll, people in the general vicinity of the lucky one start
to experience good luck as well.

It might be more interesting to see if you can use luck At Range,
or Usable Against Others.



====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:07:49 +0000
From: "J. W. Eiler" <jw_eiler@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)

Date sent: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 20:28:19 -0500
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)

> >>Hmm. I'd never thought of it that way. Of course then you get into such
> >>topics as "How real is Dreamtime" in your campaign.
> >>
> >>Anybody have any ideas on how they would handle a "Dream
> >>Dimension?" Would it have its own "monsters," its own different
> >>environment, its own "rules?" Perhaps, in Dreamtime, "INT" would be
> >>used as "DEX," and "EGO" as "STR."
>
> One resource for "comic-book" dreams in "Champions in 3-D".
>
> I'm still debating whether to use a Dreamworld or Telepathy and Mental
> Illusions.
>
> Since so many people asked in response to my original question, 'fiddling with
> dreams' is -not- a SFX. It -is- what I'm trying to do. Not drain or
> attack or
> anything else. Just interact with someone's dreams.

OK, by Hero System rules, that's still -called- a SFX.

If the person is actually "interacting" with the dreams -- i.e. on some
metaphysical level, they are "in" the dreams, and can be affected by
them, such as taking damage from attacks in the dreams, and paying
END for performing actions -- then yes, I'd use XD Travel, probably with
the "Astral Travel" limitations. This option is the only one that does NOT
require Mind Scan, but probably DOES require other powers -- "flight"
with the limitation "only in Astral form" at probably -1 to -1 1/2, would be
a good place to start.

If the charachter is just getting sensory information from the dreams --
i.e., they can "see" what the dreamer sees, but cannot "change" the
contents of the dream -- then that's Telepathy. He'll need Mind Scan, or
will need to be within line of sight.

If the charachter can "change" the dreams, without directly "seeing" the
changes, that's Mental Images. Again, he'll need Mind Scan.

If the charachter can both "see" and "change" the dreams, you'll need
both, PLUS the Mind Scan.

Me, personally, I'd go for the XD Travel option -- I think it's the most
interesting of the three-- YMMV.



J. W. Eiler

Thought for the day:
REALITY.SYS Corrupted. Reboot? (Y,N)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:19:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Dream Dimension (was: Re: Fantasy Hero Dream Magic)

let's muddy it up some more:

Telekinesis, Transdimensional: affects dream-time.

and so you can aim the damn thing:

Clairsentience, Transdimensional, affects dream-time.

There ya go. With those two powers you can "fiddle with dreams"
at no danger to yourself. Put Inviso-FX on these and BAM, the dreamer
thinks that he did it to himself.
==
Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:27:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Question about Luck

IMC there's a villain whose schtick is Luck of all kinds.

she has:
Luck, 5 dice (for herself)
Luck, 5 dice, Ranged, Usable By Others (helps teammates)
Luck, 5 dice, Ranged, Usable Against Others (puts whammy on heroes)

needless to say, almost everything goes her way.
when the campaign ended she was still at large.
==
Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:31:06 +0000
From: "J. W. Eiler" <jw_eiler@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Question about Luck

Date sent: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:39:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Send reply to: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Question about Luck
To: jw_eiler@bellsouth.net
Copies to: champ-l@sysabend.org

> J. W. Eiler writes:
> > A couple of things to remember about luck -- the "book" maximum is
> > 5D6. Have a good, long talk with your GM, and have him/her really think
> > about whether or not they want to mess with the game mechanics
> > before you go and buy more than 5D6. Also, the way the book states it,
> > luck is ONLY to get your charachter out of a jam -- when the chips are
> > down, so to speak.
>
> Huh? No, the book maximum on _unluck_ is 5d6. No limit on luck.

<sheepish grin> My bad -- oh, well, that's my mistake for the year <g>.

> The book
> also doesn't specify exactly what luck is for -- the basic rule for luck is
> that it only gets rolled when the GM chooses to allow it to be rolled.

Well, sort of. It does give examples of help when the PC's are "in deep
kim-chee," or when they're otherwise out of options.

> As a rule, if you want luck on a character in a _controllable_ way, don't do
> this with luck -- do this with other powers, with a special effect of 'luck'.

Actually, that's an idea. How about a "Black Cat" type power -- "3D6
Unluck, Usable Against Others, usable as a Power (probably +1, at
least), Range." Imagine an otherwise Normal-charachter with this....

Be afraid! <g>





J. W. Eiler

Thought for the day:
Dictatorship (n): a form of government under which everything
which is not prohibited is compulsory.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 15:15:46 -0600
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: Comeliness / Perception

At 04:38 PM 11/3/98 +0100, Alain RAMEAU wrote:
> I prefer to treat the comeliness as a "talent" or a desadvantage,
> rather than having it as a charac above 10 or below 10.
>
> And I don't like a lot the Perception roll, which is important, and is
> just an INT one. I would add a charcteristic of PER (cost 1 or 2 per
> point). In fact, hard scientists in movies are generally shown wearing
> spectacles and somewhat absent minded. Which does not go well with a
> perception based upon INT charac !

You forget that INT does not mean quite the same thing as (all connotations
of) "intelligence". Gamewise, it refers to the specific meaning of "how
quickly you think" -- mental dexterity. The BBB/HSR actually posits the
example of highly intelligent folks with unimpressive INT -- like your
absent-minded scientist. These would be represented by a mediocre INT and
high /skills/ (or skill levels with INT-based skills).

- --
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the SoapVox at http://www.io.com/~angilas/soapvox.html

------------------------------

End of champ-l-digest V1 #9
***************************


Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 03:30 PM