Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 98

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 1998 8:43 AM 
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #98 
champ-l-digest       Thursday, December 17 1998       Volume 01 : Number 098 
In this issue: 
    Re: the cottage game weekend 
    RE: General VIPER stuff 
    RE: the cottage game weekend 
    Re: VIPER Revision 
    Re: General VIPER stuff 
    RE: Updated VIPER [Long!] 
    CHAR: Trunks 
    Re: Sysabend.Org Hardware Woes 
    RE: Corporations 
    Re: Mail Delay 
    Re: CHAR:Mastadon (was Fireman skills) 
    RE: Updated VIPER [Long!] 
    Re: Sysabend.Org Hardware Woes 
    impaired gaming 
    Re: Sysabend.Org Hardware Woes 
    [Followup] Defining mutants 
    Re: Updated VIPER [Long!] 
    Re: General VIPER stuff 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:00:19 -0600 (CST) 
From: Rick Jones <rick@blkbox.com> 
Subject: Re: the cottage game weekend 
Occasionally, a player might have a beer with dinner before we play, but 
generally gamers who drink (or use other mood-altering substances) have 
thought they were the cat's ass, but generally looked like dorks to the 
rest of the group. 
OTOH, our vampire game did have a "come as your character" night one 
Halloween.  It was gobs of fun.  
- --  
Rick Jones          That's the kind of wooly-headed liberal thinking that  
rick@blkbox.com     leads to being eaten.  
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/  --Principal Snyder,Buffy The Vampire Slayer 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:46:14 -0500 
From: Glen Sprigg <borealis@cois.on.ca> 
Subject: RE: General VIPER stuff 
>	>Okay, I'll bite. Why do people complain about Viperia but not 
>Jefferson Gable? He's a lot more gross. 
>	Beats me Scott. I mean, she's Supergirl - but that's not really an 
>impediment to using her as long as your campaign supports that level of 
>power. Maybe it's the 'cute and perky' costume and look in her illo? Maybe 
>if it was all black leather or something it might make a difference? 
If I can ever get my high-level Champions game going, Viperia is definitely 
going to be a prime opponent for the PCs.  I think Jefferson Gable is quite 
useful as well against high-powered heroes (like my favorite, Borealis). 
VIPER could definitely give any hero team of any power level a run for 
their money. 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:05:32 -0500 
From: "Johnson, Adam" <AJohnson@clariion.com> 
Subject: RE: the cottage game weekend 
We've had times in one of our groups where alcohol was served. It was, after 
all, somewhat of a Christmas bash, and I brought two bottles of mead, and 
another player brought some interesting sort of beer. Wine's been available 
as well. However, we were not a group to get wasted while playing. 
- ---------------------------------------------------------- 
Adam Johnson 
Product Support -- Head Lab Resident Area Tech (RAT) 
	Life's a long song... but the tune ends too soon for us all 
Jethro Tull, "Life's a Long Song," Living in the Past 
- ---------------------------------------------------------- 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From:	Rick Jones [SMTP:rick@blkbox.com] 
> Sent:	Wednesday, 16 December, 1998 13:00 
> To:	nolan@erols.com 
> Cc:	champ-l@sysabend.org 
> Subject:	Re: the cottage game weekend 
> Occasionally, a player might have a beer with dinner before we play, but 
> generally gamers who drink (or use other mood-altering substances) have 
> thought they were the cat's ass, but generally looked like dorks to the 
> rest of the group. 
> OTOH, our vampire game did have a "come as your character" night one 
> Halloween.  It was gobs of fun.  
> --  
> Rick Jones          That's the kind of wooly-headed liberal thinking that  
> rick@blkbox.com     leads to being eaten.  
> http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/  --Principal Snyder,Buffy The Vampire 
> Slayer 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:18:58 -0500 
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com> 
Subject: WHOA! 
Listen here, gentle members of the Champs list. 
In no way did I ever intend to start a debate on the merits or flaws of drug 
usage. That was not the focus of the original "cottage" post although others 
have taken issue with it. 
So, I'm going to state my position and if anyone wants to tangle over this, 
please email me privately. This is totally off topic for this list and I 
don't want to end up as the evil druggie on the list, okay? 
I'm not trying to tell everyone they should use drugs or drink when gaming. 
Drugs are illegal unless you live somewhere enlightened and drinking booze 
to excess is stupid. I have a strict policy about imposing my lifestyle on 
others and I expect the same courtesy from others. If people aren't cool 
with my habits than my habits to not play a part in activities I share with 
them. I have no interest in getting all wasted and wrecking anyone's fun. 
The game is the focus and if I'm GMing I usually pass on the weed until 
after the game. I just makes it too hard to remember what phase you're on. 
If you game with people that get all whacked out and can't keep up with the 
tour, those guys are @$$holes and I wouldn't game with them. Don't presume 
to paint me with the same brush, okay? 
I won't be posting anything else to the list on this topic. If you have 
something to say, just email me privately. I'm always happy to share my view 
of the world, but this conversation doesn't belong on the Champs list. 
Brian Wawrow 
...working for a glaucoma-free generation! 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:21:04 -0800 
From: Scott Bennie <sbennie@dowco.com> 
Subject: Re: VIPER Revision 
> VF-2: Did Kevin Armstrong leave his brain behind when he defected?  If the 
> team is still around (and if you're using Shelley's PRIMUS book, it may not 
> be), give the man a code name already.  Using his real name when he's 
> supposed to be dead is just _asking_ for trouble.  Overall, though, I 
> prefer VF-2 to VF-1.  VF-1 really doesn't have much reason to stick 
> together, while VF-2 could continue as a team even if the PCs fried the 
> Supreme Serpent. 
Well, there is such a thing as hiding in plain sight. And although I wasn't 
thinking along these lines when I was writing the character, calling himself 
"Armstrong" was a way to goad PRIMUS; he knew that eventually his secret ID 
would be exposed, and calling himself by his actual name would put the screws 
to PRIMUS psychologically when it was uncovered. And also, Kevin had given up 
a lot when he joined VIPER. Making his codename his actual last name was also 
a way to keep some vestiges of what he had been, a connection to his past he 
wasn't willing to completely sever. 
Of course, Kevin should have had a cover identity, not "Kevin Armstrong" as 
his secret ID. That was a goof. 
If the Serpent got fried, VF1 would continue as a mercenary team; money can 
make up for a lot of internal stresses, and they actually work well together. 
They'd eventually fragment, but it'd take time and a lot of hammering. 
Scott Bennie 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:57:57 -0800 
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net> 
Subject: Re: General VIPER stuff 
>>You can never 
>>predict what parts of a supplement a GM will bond with, and what pieces 
>>they'll want to nuke. Some things I think are neat as an author (such as 
>>the VIPER diary or the VIPER campaign outlines) are sections which I've 
>>been told aren't particularly useful. 
I thought the viper diary was incredibly useful and a great read (never a 
bad thing in any supplement), dont pull that kind of thing and the campaign 
outlines were only less useful in the sense that I wish there had been 
MORE.  I did a post apocalyptic campaign based on Vipers in the Dust called 
Up From the Dust, the PCs had just found the base, dont know where that 
will go. 
The characters I very rarely use in any supplement, dont particularly care 
either way about them, and the power level of them was rediculous for the 
most part any way.  There is a suspicious trend in Champions Supplements of 
some sort of odd one upsmanship (yeah well MY villains could beat YOUR 
villains!!!).  It is so much easier to increase power level than to 
decrease, in my experience, the least you could do is offer two power 
levels (low and high), especially considering the popularity of Dark 
- ---------------------------------------------------------- 
Sola Gracia		Sola Scriptura		Sola Fide 
Soli Gloria Deo		Solus Christus		Corum Deo 
- ----------------------------------------------------------- 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:10:32 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: RE: Updated VIPER [Long!] 
At 08:40 AM 12/16/98 -0600, Hudson, Robert wrote: 
>At 9:48 AM Dec 15 Bob G. wrote: 
> >I think you missed the point of Robert's objection.  He doesn't 
>want a full list of all the US Nests, even if it's just a paragraph 
>describing the Nest Leader and another paragraph describing the size, 
>character, and practices of the Nest itself. Not that the logic really 
>holds; after all, for every thing that goes into a sourcebook there will be 
>someone who wants to change it.  The point of the above-succested listing 
>would be to provide something for those who don't already have their own 
>ideas to work from. 
> This is pretty much right on the money Bob. Include a few [most, 
>even] of the major nests certainly, some medium and light-weight nests, 
>absolutely - but not every...single...nest in the country. That's where I 
>have to say that we've crossed the line into wasted space. 
   I guess it depends in part on how many Nests you think there are, and 
how finely you define what constitutes a separate Nest. 
   For example, given just the three Northwestern states (Oregon, 
Washington, and Idaho), I think I'd have Nests in Seattle, Portland, 
Spokane, and Boise (okay, *maybe* Pocatello and Coos Bay).  The Seattle 
Nest would operate just as well in Tacoma, and probably have offices in 
Olympia without that being a separate Nest; it might also have some 
operations in Bremerton, Port Angelo and other towns, without those being 
considered separate Nests.  Similarly, the Portland Nest would probably 
have operations in Astoria, Vancouver, Salem, Eugene, and Newport, without 
those necessarily being separate Nests.  So what I'm suggesting is four to 
six Nests for these three states, probably totalling less than a full page 
of description (and more like just over a half page), which would come to 
about 10-12 pages for everybody (maybe a little more if some of the text 
runs long).  I think you're envisioning something more like three pages' 
worth of text for all what I describe above. 
> >Again, the point of the section is being missed.  This isn't a 
>study in "this is how VIPER is dealing with the Champions, and you have to 
>use the Champions in this adventure."  It's a look at "here's one more item 
>in the arsenal of VIPER for dealing with supers that tick them off." And 
>they're not, as a rule, the type to just put a bullet through the brain of 
>an enemy as said enemy steps out of the shower.  They might do that to an 
>agent who's turned State's evidence, but the Champions?  After all those 
>public humiliations, VIPER is going to want to publicly humiliate them and 
>show off their own power at the same time. It's one thing to kidnap Samuel 
>Johnson and threaten to kill him if Quantum interferes with any more of 
>VIPER's operations (been there, done that, got the hospital bills, according 
>to CU).  It's another thing altogether to develop a Metabolic Disruptor 
>(BODY Drain), arm a Five-Team with them, and make an example of her in front 
>of the televised news media. 
> Okay - *big* difference in core visions of VIPER here with you Bob - 
>I can't see any group that exists solely for profit wasting a billion bucks 
>to humiliate *anyone.* If a normal thinks you're not hot stuff because 
>Seeker trashed seven of your guys on national TV, then visit his grandmother 
>with a chainsaw and he'll figure out the truth really quickly. [Granted, an 
>extreme example, but real-life Colombian cartels have done exactly that for 
>years and no one's been able to stop them either. There are lots of more 
>subtle ways to make the point without a chainsaw, and VIPER knows 'em all - 
>count on it.] 
   This, to my mind, is what separates VIPER from the Cartels.  If I'm 
going to run someone with that mindset, I'll use a Cartel, or maybe Card 
Shark.  For VIPER, I want a four-color feel to their vengeance and their 
dealings with their enemies as well as to their schemes and power level. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:29:30 -0500 (EST) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com> 
Subject: CHAR: Trunks 
[and speaking of really expensive characters...  Here is Trunks, the next 
offer in my DBZ conversion.  He's the first of the Saiyajins, and a 880 
points is no slouch.  I will admit that his character history refers to 
other, as yet unwritten, characters.  I also plan to go into more detail 
on such things as cyborg and the Red Ribbon army on the actual Dragonball 
Hero homepage.  Anyway, next up?  Probably trunk's father, Vegita.] 
Val	CHA	Cost	Roll	Notes 
45	STR	35	18-	12.5 tons; 9d6 
28	DEX	54	15-	OCV: 9 / DCV: 9 
33	CON	46	16-	 
20	BODY	20	13-	 
18	INT	8	13-	PER Roll 13- 
18	EGO	16	13-	ECV: 6 
20	PRE	10	13-	PRE Attack: 4d6 
18	COM	4	13-	 
25	PD	16		Total: 25 PD 
25	ED	18		Total: 25 ED 
6	SPD	22		Phases: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 
16	REC	0		 
90	END	12		 
60	STUN	0		 
Total Characteristics Cost: 261 
Movement:	Flight: 30" / 120" 
	Running: 10" / 20" 
	Superleap: 20" / 40" 
	Swimming: 2" / 4" 
Cost	Powers & Skills 
Combat Training: 
24	Combat Skill Levels: +3 with All Combat 
12	Combat Skill Levels: +6 with Move-by 
1	Martial Arts: Kamesennin-ryu; use Art with Sword 
	Maneuver		OCV	DCV	Damage 
4	Block			+2	+2	Block, Abort 
4	Dodge			+0	+5	Dodge vs All, Abort 
5	Kick			-2	+1	15d6 
4	Knee Strike		+2	+0	13d6 
4	Punch			+0	+2	13d6 
	Martial Arts: Sword-fighting; use Art with Swords 
	Maneuver		OCV	DCV	Damage 
0	Block			+2	+2	Block, Abort 
0	Evade			+0	+5	Dodge vs All, Abort 
4	Flying Stroke		+2	-2	Weapon +1 DC & v/5; Full Move 
0	Lightning Strike	+2	+0	Weapon +2 DC 
5	Running Slash		+2	-2	Weapon +3 DC; Half Move Required 
5	Running Stroke		+1	+0	Weapon +1 DC & v/5; Full Move 
0	Slash			-2	+1	Weapon +3 DC 
8	+2 Damage Classes with Martial Arts 
Saiyajin Racial Powers: 
3	Life Support: Immune to Aging 
Super-Saiyajin Powers: 
50	Level One: Aid: 4d6 to STR, DEX, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN and 
	Ki Powers Multipower (+2), Fades per Minute (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2), 
	Full Phase (-1/2) 
32	Level Two: Aid: 4d6 STR, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN and  
	Ki Powers Multipower (+2), Fades per 5 Minutes (+1/2),  
	0 END (+1/2), Linked to SSJ 1, SSJ 1 must have reached maximum Aid 
	levels (-1), Full Phase (-1/2), Side Effect: 8d6 DEX Drain (-1) 
Ki Powers: 
175	Ki Powers Multipower: 175 Point Pool 
10	u - Burning Attack: 35d6, Full Phase (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4),  
	END 17 
11	u - Ki Blast: 23d6, END 11 
12	u - Kiaiho: EB: 16d6 (physical), Invisible Power Effects:  
	Sight (+1/2), END 12 
28	Missle Deflection: All Ranged Attacks, +4 OCV 
97	Bukujutsu: Flight: 30", x4 NCM, 0 END (+1/2) 
8	Running: +4" (10" total), END 2 
11	Superleap: +11" (20" total), END 4 
37	Ki Sense: Detect: Ki, Discriminatory, Ranged, Sense,  
	Telescopic +8, 360 degrees 
30	Sword: HKA: 2d6 (4d6 w/STR), AP (+1/2), 0 END (+1/2),  
	OAF: Sword (-1) 
Background Skills: 
3	Acrobatics 15- 
3	Breakfall 15- 
1	Electronics 8- 
3	Fast Draw (Sword Only) 15- 
3	KS: Androids and Dr. Gero 13- 
1	KS: Martial 'world' 8- 
3	KS: Past History 13- 
1	Mechanics 8- 
2	SC: Capsule Corp Technology 11- 
5	Survival 12- 
3	Stealth 15- 
5	TF: Air Vehicles, Ground Vehicles, Time Machine 
1	WF: Sword 
619	Total Powers & Skills Cost 
880	Total Character Cost 
100+	Disadvantages 
10	If allies/friends are harmed 11- / 11- 
10	If innocents are killed/harmed 11- / 11- 
15	DNPC: Bulma (normal) 11- 
15	Distinctive Features: Super Saiya-jin Mode (Gold hair, extremely 
	obvious Ki) 
15	Physical Limitation: All Aid effects lost if reduced to negative 
	Psychological Limitation: 
10	A touch reckless (C, M) 
10	Quiet and restrained, not prone to violent out bursts or extreme 
	displays of emotion (C, M) 
20	Vow: To prevent his future from occuring (C, T) 
5	Reputation: Trunks, Saiya-jin warrior from the future 8- 
670	Mike's Favorite DBZ Character Bonus 
880	Total Disadvantage Points 
Designers Notes: 
Trunks is one of the more popular Dragonball characters.  He is a time 
traveler, come from the future to warn the past about the deadly robots 
and cyborgs of Dr. Gero.  His appearance sets into motion of chain of 
events that will culminate in the spectacular Cell game and the second 
death of Son Goku.  Trunk's story runs something like this: 
While returning from battling Freezer, Goku lands on the planet Yardrat. 
There, he learns to teleport, or the Shunkan-iou technique.  He also picks 
up a heart condition (aka Wiles-sei) that will weaken him.  Meanwhile, Dr. 
Gero, the man behind the cyborgs and artificial humans, creates several 
cyborgs for the sole purpose of destroying Goku (and anyone else that gets 
in the way), as revenge for Goku's wrecking the Red Ribbon army.  These 
cyborgs (numbers 17 and 18) attack and Goku dies.  The cyborgs then kill 
just about everyone else in very short order.  The planet's population is 
reduced to a few tens of thousands, and all hope is lost.  While this is 
happening, Bulma builds a time machine, and Trunks takes it back to give 
Goku some medicine for his heart disease.  Arriving just as Goku returns 
from space (and Yardrat), Trunks destroys the new cyborg Freezer and King 
Cold, Freezer's father.  He then gives Goku the medicine, warns him about 
the cyborgs and leaves.  He also tells Goku who he really is... the son of 
Vegita and Bulma.  This statement floors Goku (to put it mildly). 
Three years later, Artificial Humans 19 and 20 (aka the 'new' Dr. Gero) 
arrive.  They battle Goku and Goku collapses from the Wiles-sei disease. 
he is taken away, and Vegita arrives, destroying 19 and battling 20 to a 
stand still.  20 flees and manges to make his way to his old lab.  There, 
he activates numbers 17 and 18 (see).  These two activate number 16 and 
destroy 20 in the process.  Trunks, who has returned from the future yet 
again, tries to destroy them with a ki blast but fails.  The three 
Artificial Humans then leave, apparently to finish their mission of 
destroying Son Goku... 
It is then determined that the future is mutable.  By traveling back in 
time, Trunks has created divergent futures.  He has no idea who 19 and 20 
were, has never seen 16, and states that 17 and 18 are *far* stronger than 
he expected.  To make matters worse, a second time machine is discovered, 
which has come from Trunk's future!  This machine has brought back the 
Artificial Life-form known as Cell (see).  Cell has been created from the 
genetic material of a number of people, including Freezer, Piccolo and Son 
Goku.  He is *very* powerful, and plans of destroying the world.  He laso 
can increase his power by absorbing androids 17 and 18.  He manages to 
absorb 17, and gains a massive increase in power.  A short while later, 
Vegita, in possibly the *dumbest* move of the manga, lets Cell absorb 18 
(this after Vegita pounds the snerd out of Cell too...  It seems that Cell 
wasn't a powerful enough opponent).  Cell then mutates into "Perfect Cell" 
and proceded to smash Vegita into the ground.  After a bit of banter, Cell 
sets up the Cell Game, with the Earth as the stakes.  Cell looses, but not 
after destroying Kairou-sama and Kairo-sama's planet, as well as killing 
Trunks and Son Goku.  
His work done, Trunks returns to *his* future.  His experiences in the 
past have made him much stronger, and he destroys 17 and 18 (who are much 
weaker in this timeline) easily.  He then seeks out his future's Cell, and 
destroys him as well. 
Naturally, Trunks had to come from somewhen.  He is born sometime after 
Future Trunks first appearence and the battle with Artificial Humans 19 
and 20.  Chibi ('little') Trunks remains a baby throughout the Cell Game 
series, and doesn't become a major character until the Majin-Buu story 
arc.  I'm not planning on writing up Chibi-Trunks, as the power level of 
DBZ by that time has gotten to absurd even for me...  (And don't even ask 
me about Gotenks...) 
Trunks is of average height, with a lean, but well muscled build.  His 
hair is a bluish-gray color, and is usually cut short along the sides and 
long on the top, He wears brown boots, gray trousers, a black tank-top and 
a dark blue bolero jacket with a prominent Capsule Corps logo on one 
shoulder.  His character design is quite nice, and Trunks often ranks high 
in "Best Design" polls.  He's also a favorite among female fans (for 
various reasons).  The writer thinks he's massively cool... 
Powers Notes: 
Trunks has a very limited amount of screen time in the series, and doesn't 
get into that many fights.  Thus, he doesn't display the wide range of ki 
powers that some of the other characters show.  He is a very competent 
martial artist, though, having been trained by Son Gohan, and uses his 
sword to great effect.  Trunks' sword is a very potent weapon, capable of 
slicing Freezer clean in half.   
As a Saiyajin (or, more accurately 1/2 Saiyajin) Trunks can achieve the 
high-energy state known as 'Super Saiyajin'.  This state is marked by his 
hair turning bright golden yellow and spiky, and his ki manifesting as a 
visible aura.  is ki reaches such high levels that *anyone* with any 
amount of 'Detect Ki' should be able to pick him up.  Super Saiyajin mode 
is marked by a massive increase in the character's strength, agility, 
durability and so on.  Note that the SSJ Aid also feeds into the 
Multipower pool and the slots, boosting Trunk's ki blasts as well!  SSJ 2 
can pump Trunk's fighting ability to astronomical levels, but has one 
major drawback.  One's muscles become so pumped with energy, that the 
Sayajin's agility is shot and his ability to move and fight is effectively 
Trunks displays three types of ki blast in the manga.  There is his 
standard ki blast, which is quite effective all by itself; the Kiaiho, 
which is an invisible bolt of force and the "Burning Attack".  Trunks 
makes a complicated series of arm gestures before bringing his hands 
together out in front of his body.  He then fires off a massive ball of 
energy that is more than capable of destroying a small spaceship. 
Apparently, the video game version of Trunks has other attacks, including 
something called the "Phoenix Buster".  Aside from his ki blasts, Trunks 
has demonstrated the standard set of powers for a DBZ character (Swatting 
side ki blasts, flight, ki sense, etc.) 
Trunk's skills are partialy based upon the manga and partially drawn from 
the fact that he grew up with his mother in a war ravaged wasteland.   
Disadvantages Notes: 
Future Trunks is very different than Chibi-Trunks.  Having been brought up 
by his mother and Son Gohan (since everyone else was dead), he is quiet, 
restrained and very much concerned with saving his future.  Although very 
powerful, he is no fool, and often tries to err on the side of caution. 
On the other hand, he is committed to preventing his future from coming 
about and will often make rash decisions in an attempt to realize that 
goal.  Trunks also doesn't talk much and tends to keep to himself.  He 
also tries to be reasonable, a tactic doomed to failure when dealing with 
people like Vegita. 
Naturally, Trunks is a bit protective of his mother, regardless of which 
timeline he is in.  He is also rather protective of his friends and family 
and might be made to do something rash if they are harmed. 
As a Super-Saiyajin, Trunk's hair turns bright gold and his ki skyrockets 
to phenomenal levels.  He can be easily detected this way, which is not 
always to his advantage.  As with all Super-Saiyajins, being knocked out 
removes *all* benefits of his Aid power, instantly. 
(Trunks created by Akiria Toriyama, character sheet created by Michael 
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com  
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion   
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:53:42 -0800 (PST) 
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com> 
Subject: Re: Sysabend.Org Hardware Woes 
Thanks Tommy.  U DA MAN. 
Laissez le bon pim roulez!            Elliott  aka  Egyptoid 
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:54:20 PST 
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com> 
Subject: RE: Corporations 
On Tue, 15 Dec 1998 "Hudson, Robert" wrote: 
RE:  the Corporations sourcebook. 
>	You're shaping up to be the exception to the rule then Bob - in the 
>time since the book came out, I am the *only* individual I've  
>that actually bought the thing, and I frankly did it because I'm a 
>completist, not because there was loads of material in there that I  
I own it.  If I haven't used it yet, that's only because I haven't run a  
game since I bought it.  Too busy playing.  However, I'm just getting  
ready to do a big spate of background for a hypothetical shared-universe  
campaign, & I expect to use material from Corporations.  Thanks for  
reminding me that I have it!   
Jesse Thomas 
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:01:54 -0800 (PST) 
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com> 
Subject: Re: Mail Delay 
take two red pills now. 
take one blue pill in 2 hours. 
help is on the way. 
thank you. 
Elliott  aka  The Egyptoid 
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:04:10 -0600 
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net> 
Subject: Re: CHAR:Mastadon (was Fireman skills) 
At 09:38 PM 12/15/1998 -0600, Tim Statler wrote: 
>Here is the character I used the fireman information on. 
>Char: Mastadon 
>PID: Charlie Owens 
>STR 35(50)   25      100+ Disads: 
>DEX 15       15      15  DF:8' tall and hairy, NC, Noticed 
>CON 40       60      10  Public ID 
>BDY 14(15)    8      15  DNPC:Thomas Maciviegh 11- 
>INT 13        3      10  Psych Lim:Fear of Hieghts com, mod 
>EGO 10        -      20  Psych Lim: CAK 
>PRE 23       13      30  Vuln: 2xStun Fire 
>COM 10        -      15  Vuln: 1.5xBody Fire 
>PD  28(30)   21      10  Rep: Honorable Civic Hero 11- 
>ED  26(28)   18       5  Watched: Fire Dept. 11- aspow limited 
>SPD  3        5      15  Hunted: Fire using Villian 11- aspow 
>REC 15        -       5  Phys Lim: Can't easily enter many rooms  
>END 80        -               infreq, slight 
>STN 54(55)    2     250  total 
>total        170 
Thanks for posting the writeup, Tim.  One question: no rationale is given 
for his Vulnerability to Fire...is it just all that hair? 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:18:01 -0600 
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net> 
Subject: RE: Updated VIPER [Long!] 
At 07:47 AM 12/15/1998 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote: 
>   I think you missed the point of Robert's objection.  He doesn't want a 
>full list of all the US Nests, even if it's just a paragraph describing the 
>Nest Leader and another paragraph describing the size, character, and 
>practices of the Nest itself. 
I don't want that, either.  But talking to players from around the country 
to see what they've done, then selecting a good eclectic mix from among the 
best treatments, need not end up being an exhaustive (and exhausting) list 
of every single VIPER nest. 
>>>>  >8.  Present a handful of weapons that are specifically designed to deal 
>>>> with specific VIPER enemies (such as the Champions).   
>>Um, I gotta go with Robert on this one.  Little point in creating 
>>Champions-specific weapons systems if those characters aren't in play. 
>   Again, the point of the section is being missed.  This isn't a study in 
>"this is how VIPER is dealing with the Champions, and you have to use the 
>Champions in this adventure."  It's a look at "here's one more item in the 
>arsenal of VIPER for dealing with supers that tick them off." 
I guess it just depends on what the weapons are and how they're presented. 
Obsidian, for example, will never be a part of my campaign.  The 
Obsidian-Bane Class III Vibra-Gun would be an absolute waste of time for me 
if presented as something developed primarily for use against that 
Now, if it were written up as a general use sonic weapon, something they 
regularly use to Tunnel through or disintegrate walls, or to attack 
vehicles, and merely included a footnote to the effect that VIPER agents 
trained in the use of this weapon have been advised of Obsidian's 
Vulnerability, that would be fine.  At least then it's a matter of taking 
advantage of resources that have much broader uses, not spending huge 
amounts of caash to develop weapons designed to counter a single individual 
(or very small group of individuals with the same weakness). 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:11:21 -0500 
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net> 
Subject: Re: Sysabend.Org Hardware Woes 
At 03:26 AM 12/16/98 -0500, you wrote: 
>Until then just imagine a poor 
>MiniTower case with a 2000CFM furnace blower jacked into it.  The wonders  
>of Ducttape... 
Back when I was in school, the hardware guys called this "an interim 
Or I could say: 
"You've got a MiniTower case?  Boy am I jealous.  All I've got is a 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:38:23 -0500 
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net> 
Subject: impaired gaming 
At 01:18 PM 12/16/98 -0500, Brian Wawrow wrote: 
>If you game with people that get all whacked out and can't keep up with the 
>tour, those guys are @$$holes and I wouldn't game with them. Don't presume 
>to paint me with the same brush, okay? 
I am reminded of one of my fondest gaming stories. 
The game was on Saturdays and we were quite serious about it.  It was AD&D 
and my brother DMed at Mike's house.  If a few people didn't show, we 
played board games instead.  Not showing with no warning was a serious 
I had 4 wisdom teeth removed just before noon on Friday.  It was late 
Friday night before I could eat jello and I was on strong narcotics for 
pain.  Saturday Morning, my brother said, "you know, this really _is_ a 
good excuse for not going."  My reply was, "I knew the game was on Saturday 
when I made the appointment."  I went.  I was up to eating cottage cheese. 
I spent most of the day drooling into the carpet with a barbell placed 
behind my head, pinning me to the floor.  Later, I recieved high praise: I 
stayed in character, I payed attention, and I participated more than anyone 
else there. 
Personally, I advise strongly against trying to game while on drugs.  I 
don't even drink, and that gives me a clear view of how the bozos who drink 
get screwed up.  But I do recognize that it is possable to game while 
impaired, and it doesn't have to spoil everybody's fun. It all depends on 
what the player is like _before_ you add the chemicals. 
Last point:  a great gamer and friend of mine once said, "I don't become an 
@$$hole when I'm drunk; I'm _always_ an @$$hole.  It's just when I'm drunk 
I can't override my natural @$$hole-ish tendancies." 
Date: 17 Dec 1998 00:11:53 -0500 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
Subject: Re: Sysabend.Org Hardware Woes 
Hash: SHA1 
"gh" == geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net> writes: 
gh> Back when I was in school, the hardware guys called this "an interim 
gh> solution." 
Legacy system: n. a system that works. 
Me, I just call it a hack and be done with it. 
Version: GnuPG v0.4.5 (GNU/Linux) 
Comment: For info finger gcrypt@ftp.guug.de 
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 
- --  
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete. 
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \  
GPG Key: same as my PGP 5 (DH) key  \  
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:20:10 -0800 
From: "Eric Wylie" <erk@halcyon.com> 
Subject: [Followup] Defining mutants 
Thanks to everyone that responded to my question about defining mutants. 
The following paragraph is how I have addressed mutants in my house rules: 
Mutants/Mutates: Character powers come in many forms; the most common being 
some sort of mutation.  Characters born with a particular power and having a 
different genetic makeup from their parents are considered mutants. 
Characters having powers that manifest themselves at a later date (usually 
puberty) are considered mutates.  In either case, these character’s genetic 
structure differs from the rest of society.  This is something that can be 
determined by DNA analysis.  In this campaign, the ability to perform such 
tests will require sophisticated lab equipment.  Characters may purchase 
“Invisibility to mutant detectors” but MUST provide very good justification. 
Most other powers come from technology, magic or some other cosmic source. 
While aliens may prove human in appearance, they will be detectable as 
aliens when undergoing medical examination.  Aliens may also take an 
“Invisibility versus mutant detectors” and will also be required to explain 
why an alien appears completely human. 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:11:28 +1000 
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au> 
Subject: Re: Updated VIPER [Long!] 
- -----Original Message----- 
From: Hudson, Robert <x2rhudso@southernco.com> 
>> Point two- relationships define a group. How does viper deal with tech 
>> groups? how about drug cartels? What about freelance supers, evil 
>> secret societies, banana republics, daemon lords, ninja clans? That has 
>> meaning, more than simply a short explanation of what the group is doing, 
>> or the ever-vague 'matirial'. Explaining how it gets on with groups is 
>> VERY important, the most vital concept- we can make up our own npc's and 
>> so forth, we need to know about thge writers vision of how these people 
>> their buisness, and with whom. Are they anti-magic? Do they get their 
>> asses kicked every time they take on the ninjas?. 
> I think this is question of personal viewpoint. I've never used 
>*any* group as written, and, as such, I generally prefer to deal with this 
>material on my own. Not to say that everyone has to do it that way - Bob G. 
>for example, said he uses *all* of the Champions Universe pretty close to 
>written - that's just my opinion. 
well put it this way. primus is a law enforcement agency which fights viper, 
They're also up against demon, in a similar way. They had a rivalry with SAT 
at one 
point. These sort of things are important, imhho, for defiining a group, 
in a genre-mix like a superheroic game, where varying levels of magic, tech, 
crime and such exist . Can viper, in general, make a deal with an asguardian 
Or are they *way* out of that stuff? What defined that group, 
as it interacts with other types of groups? What type of threats 
would viper join forces with the heroes 
again? That sort of thing. Just a thought. 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:21:09 -0600 
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net> 
Subject: Re: General VIPER stuff 
At 11:04 PM 12/15/1998 -0800, Scott Bennie wrote: 
>I agree with most of the principles, but not the conclusion. Champions 
>does work best as a tool kit for the GM to put together the campaign 
>that they want.  
This seems to me a very good way to look at it; the core rulebook is a 
workshop with the basic tools and parts needed to build and maintain 
characters.  Supplements can be regarded as additional (and in many cases, 
specialized) tools and parts for the handy man or do-it-yourselfer with 
special interests beyond the basics.  Books that list and describe 
"Projects You Can Build at Home" can certainly be useful...but there's no 
substitute for the tools and building materials. 
When I buy a Hero products, I'm mainly interested in picking up the extra 
tools (in the form of optional rules for specific genres or more detailed 
treatments from an Ultimate book) and the building materials (ready-to-use 
writeups of bases, vehicles, gadgets, special equipment, five-man teams and 
solo characters) I'll need to undertake a project I already have in mind, 
at least in rough form. 
>However I believe, more tools, properly presented, is better than 
>fewer tools. A scenario hook (or a whole scenario) might be useless to 
>the GM, but it may also spark an idea that the GM might take, adjust to 
>suit the campaign, or alter as his/her muse sees fit, and make for a 
>memorable campaign session. As long as the book is written in an 
>entertaining manner that will keep the GM reading until he reaches to 
>the part that inspires him, I think more is better. 
I will come close to contradicting myself here:  I keep saying I prefer 
emphasis on those items which are most easily handled in modular fashion 
and can be dropped into anyone's campaign with little or no tinkering. 
Brief story hooks are okay, but the more detail that goes into them, the 
more change is likely to be needed before the individual GM can use them. 
*However*, my wife and I have found many of the adventure supplements for 
Call of Cthulhu to be great reading material as is.  Even if we don't play 
a particular adventure, it's often worth having just to read the story 
outline and potential plot development.  So, yeah, as long as the included 
material is entertaining, it doesn't matter whether I use all of it.  Not 
all the material is expected to be used, after all, but as long as I find, 
say, 70% of the material to be either useful or entertaining (or both) I 
think it's a worthwhile purchase. 
>I do try to live by Allen Varney's recommendation that every piece of 
>information in a supplement should have some possible effect on 
>gameplay, be it a bit of history that may contain a plot hook, or a 
>diary description of an agent that tells of some of the internal 
>conflict in a Nest, or a weapon whose production line. I don't always 
>succeed, but I try. It's the Airplane approach to supplement design - 
>Airplane stuffs their movies with so many jokes you're bound to laugh at 
>enough of them to feel good. In VIPER, we tried to put in as many GM 
>toys and plot hooks as possible. 
Sounds good:  plot hooks for Bob, toys for me (and Bob), and everyone's 
happy...at least, until you try to add anything to it.  :)  
>Ross Rannells said: 
>>>Second, do the agents correctly, give them weapons and equipment based 
>on the rules on pages 204 - 206 in the BBB. Its amazing how effective a 
>100 point agent can be if his/her equipment is actually bought Focus, 
>Indepentant, Strength Min, etc. << 
>They are done correctly. I'm not interested in point effectiveness to 
>the point where the character sheet is clogged down with enough 
>limitations that a novice GM has to go to a lot of trouble to run an 
>agent. The amount of time that a GM should spend between looking at a 
>character sheet and announcing a character's action should be between 
>five to ten seconds; longer than that, and pacing gets out of whack. 
Different GM's have different abilities to pace games and keep the action 
moving.  Now, you could argue that those GM's probably also have the skill 
to rewrite the VIPER agents to make them more efficient if they feel 
there's a need, and that they'd need little time and effort to do so. 
Still, one or two examples of agents written as Ross suggested (with the 
default agents left as they are throughout the book) might not be a bad thing. 
>To me, the economic heart of an agency like VIPER is using four color 
>comic book technology to make money through criminal means; though this 
>can be adjusted for the tone of the campaign. Examples of such schemes 
>might include: 
>* VIPER kidnaps the city's millionaires, puts them in the brainwashing 
>booth, has them marry female VIPER agents, and then arranges "accidents" 
>for them. 
>* VIPER creates weapons that makes everyone in a city break out into 
>epileptic spasms (unless they're paid a certain amount of money).  
>* VIPER invents custom narcotics that allows an addict to spread an 
>addiction by touching someone.  
>* VIPER overrides the controls on the Army's experimental Herobuster 
>giant robot and uses it to rob Fort Knox. 
>* VIPER steals the sheath of Excalibur from the local museum and tries 
>to analyze its invulnerable properties to duplicate through 
Good plot seeds, but people have also asked about those day-to-day criminal 
operations like prostitution and murder-for-hire.  VIPER as a whole will 
diversify, but local nests will probably specialize.  This seems another 
good argument for collecting info from players around the country, so see 
how their local groups contribute funds for VIPER. 
End of champ-l-digest V1 #98 

Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 04:22 PM