Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 111

From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Sent: Monday, December 28, 1998 4:10 PM 
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org 
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #111 
 
 
champ-l-digest        Monday, December 28 1998        Volume 01 : Number 111 
 
 
 
In this issue: 
 
    Re: DREAMRIDERS REORGANIZES (attn: John D) 
    Re: Fwd:  The Twelve Days of Chri... 
    Re: [Fuzion] Recent crossposting by Dreamriders, et al 
    [none] 
    Re: Fwd:  The Twelve Days of Chri... 
    Re: Zero phase actions 
    The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
    Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
    Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
    Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
    Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
    Re: Zero phase actions 
    Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements 
    Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
    Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
    Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
    Re: GENKI (The Dark Devil) 
    Re: GENKI (The Dark Devil) 
    Re: CHAR: Anita Carstairs (was Stupid Precog Tricks) 
    Christmas Themed Merc Team for Champs 
    Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
    Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
    Re: CHAR: Anita Carstairs (was Stupid Precog Tricks) 
    Re: Fwd:  The Twelve Days of Chri... 
    Re: Christmas Themed Merc Team for Champs 
    Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements 
    Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements 
    Define Loss of Balance 
    Re: Define Loss of Balance 
    Re: Christmas Themed Merc Team for Champs 
    Re: CHAR: Anita Carstairs (was Stupid Precog Tricks) 
    Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements 
    Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements 
    Perfect Memory (The Roboti-X Power) 
    Re: CHAR: Anita Carstairs (was Stupid Precog Tricks) 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 23:14:04 GMT 
From: tachyon@writeme.com (Mark Colin Barltrop) 
Subject: Re: DREAMRIDERS REORGANIZES (attn: John D) 
 
On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:14:14 -0600, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin 
wrote: 
 
>At 12:08 AM 12/27/1998 -0500, Opus wrote: 
>>For : Dreamriders Workshop 
>>Contact : Cory Conrad  
>>Email : info@dreamriders.com 
>>Phone : 514-366-9096 
>>Keywords : Comic Books, Dreamriders Workshop 
> 
>>To no longer receive these press-releases, respond 
>>to this message with "remove me" as the subject. 
> 
>Sounds like an excellent idea.  John D, can we have CHAMP-L removed from 
>Dreamriders' mailing list, please? 
> 
already sorted, hopefully -I was annoyed by an off-topic commercial 
post so complained to the sender - they apologised & said they'd sort 
it 
 
Mark Barltrop (tachyon@writeme.com) 
ICQ Pager - http://wwp.mirabilis.com/13415498 
'When people were in trouble they went to a witch -  
Sometimes, of course, to say, 'Please stop doing it.' ' 
(Terry Pratchett,'Carpe Jugulam') 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:34:53 -0500 
From: "Robert A. West" <robtwest@erols.com> 
Subject: Re: Fwd:  The Twelve Days of Chri... 
 
Before someone takes me to task for my errors and threatens to have be 
drummed out of the Know-it-all and Pundits Society: 
 
Robert A. West wrote: 
 
> Many of the twelve days have their own names and feasts, which are 
> memorialized in carols which are still sung by people who are ignorant 
> of their original purpose.  Thus, December 26 is the Feast of the 
> Innocents, and is memorialized in the old carol: 
 
Per the Reader's Encyclopedia, December 28, not 26. 
 
>  
> December 27 is the feast of St. Stephen, which is referred to in the 
> modern carol: 
 
Per the same source, December 26, not 27. 
 
Of course this thread has a gaming-related purpose, since someone out 
there is surely considering using the Twelve Days of Christmas as the 
inspiration for a scenario, no? 
 
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) 
 
Robert A. West 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:37:45 -0500 
From: Opus <opus@sprint.ca> 
Subject: Re: [Fuzion] Recent crossposting by Dreamriders, et al 
 
Logan Darklighter wrote: 
>  
> Um. Guys? Do these people have permission to advertise on the list? Heck. On 
> the Fuzion one as well? Is this relevent? Yes it's comic related, but it's 
> not game related directly. Just asking the List organizers if this is okay 
> or not. 
 
The Rabid Monkey notice was accidentally crossposted to the Hero mailing 
list. This has been remedied. 
 
What was not mentioned in the post was that an RPG book is in the works 
for the title. It uses Instant Fuzion and should play a lot like Toon. 
For this reason it was obviously intended for the Fuzion list and not 
the Hero list. 
 
We regret the error. 
 
- --  
Cory Conrad 
Dreamriders Workshop 
- ------------------------------------------ 
Fuzion, Comics, and a touch of Magic 
http://www.dreamriders.com/ 
- ------------------------------------------ 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 18:37:00 -0800 
From: "Wolf, Dave" <dave.wolf@intel.com> 
Subject: [none] 
 
unsubscribe 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:21:04 -0800 
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com> 
Subject: Re: Fwd:  The Twelve Days of Chri... 
 
Robert A. West wrote: 
>  
> Before someone takes me to task for my errors and threatens to have be 
> drummed out of the Know-it-all and Pundits Society: 
>  
> Robert A. West wrote: 
>  
> > Many of the twelve days have their own names and feasts, which are 
> > memorialized in carols which are still sung by people who are 
> ignorant 
> > of their original purpose.  Thus, December 26 is the Feast of the 
> > Innocents, and is memorialized in the old carol: 
>  
> Per the Reader's Encyclopedia, December 28, not 26. 
>  
> > 
> > December 27 is the feast of St. Stephen, which is referred to in the 
> > modern carol: 
>  
> Per the same source, December 26, not 27. 
>  
> Of course this thread has a gaming-related purpose, since someone out 
> there is surely considering using the Twelve Days of Christmas as the 
> inspiration for a scenario, no? 
 
I'm more inclined to use the Bob & Doug McKenzie (sp) version of 
the 12 days... 
- -Mark Lemming 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:33:16 -0800 (PST) 
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com> 
Subject: Re: Zero phase actions 
 
Greetings! 
 
     To Wayne, Bob, Rat, Erol, qts, and anybody else who beat me over the head 
with this mathematical two-by-four: 
 
     Okay, I admit it... I forgot the formula for computing costs after adding 
modifiers. After taking THAT into account, everything you guys have been 
saying actually started making sense. 
 
      For the crime of unconscionable dim-wittedness, I'm willing to accept 
whatever public chastisement you deem appropriate. 
 
Dale A. Ward 
(Hanging Head In Shame) 
 
_________________________________________________________ 
DO YOU YAHOO!? 
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 22:48:24 -0500 
From: "B.C. Holmes" <bcholmes@interlog.com> 
Subject: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
 
Robert A. West wrote: 
>  
> Of course this thread has a gaming-related purpose, since someone out 
> there is surely considering using the Twelve Days of Christmas as the 
> inspiration for a scenario, no? 
 
	How about one of those theme-based villain teams.  Twelve 
supervillains, each with a Christmas-based superpowers: 
 
o  "Santa Claws" has long, wolverine-style claws that can cut through 
anything. 
o  "The Elf" is a gadgeteer -- all of his gadgets are toy-related 
o  "Rudolf" has had a ruby-quarz laser implanted in his nose 
o  "Frosty" 
o  "Brick in the Box" 
o  "Mary Christmas" 
o  ... 
 
- ----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+-- 
B.C. Holmes                           http://www.interlog.com/~bcholmes/ 
"What am I to think of a society where a pizza can get to me faster 
 than an ambulance?" 
                  - Dave Broadfoot 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 00:33:51 -0500 
From: Badger <wbandsis@wstcm1.westco.net> 
Subject: Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
 
At 10:48 PM 12/27/98 -0500, you wrote: 
>Robert A. West wrote: 
>>  
>> Of course this thread has a gaming-related purpose, since someone out 
>> there is surely considering using the Twelve Days of Christmas as the 
>> inspiration for a scenario, no? 
> 
>	How about one of those theme-based villain teams.  Twelve 
>supervillains, each with a Christmas-based superpowers: 
> 
>o  "Santa Claws" has long, wolverine-style claws that can cut through 
>anything. 
>o  "The Elf" is a gadgeteer -- all of his gadgets are toy-related 
>o  "Rudolf" has had a ruby-quarz laser implanted in his nose 
>o  "Frosty" 
>o  "Brick in the Box" 
>o  "Mary Christmas" 
 
You can do the twelve reindeer names also. 
Cupid would make people fall in love with first person they see  
Dancer gives mental command to dance 
.... 
 
- ---------------------------------------- 
What's going on?" 
"I blew up the building." 
"Why did you do that?" 
"Because you made a phone call." 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 22:13:58 -0800 
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to> 
Subject: Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
 
Dasher is a speedster. 
Prancer is a martial artist. 
> Dancer gives mental command to dance 
Vixen is, well, a spy? Femme Fatale type? Has Mind Control vs. Men? 
Comet is a flying speedster. 
Cupid, as said, can make people fall in love. 
Donner: I don't know, what is the derivation of this name? 
Blitzen is an energy projector. 
 
JAJ, GP 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 00:27:57 -0600 
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@home.com> 
Subject: Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
 
James Jandebeur wrote: 
>  
> Dasher is a speedster. 
> Prancer is a martial artist. 
> > Dancer gives mental command to dance 
> Vixen is, well, a spy? Femme Fatale type? Has Mind Control vs. Men? 
> Comet is a flying speedster. 
> Cupid, as said, can make people fall in love. 
> Donner: I don't know, what is the derivation of this name? 
 
Donner is german for thunder, I believe (if not, Im sure I'll be 
corrected) 
 
> Blitzen is an energy projector. 
 
and Blitzen is german for lightning... 
 
 
 
Todd 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 02:31:15 -0500 
From: werther@hilander.com (...jason schneiderman...) 
Subject: Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
 
At 10:48 PM 12/27/98, B.C. Holmes wrote: 
>Robert A. West wrote: 
>> 
>> Of course this thread has a gaming-related purpose, since someone out 
>> there is surely considering using the Twelve Days of Christmas as the 
>> inspiration for a scenario, no? 
> 
>        How about one of those theme-based villain teams.  Twelve 
>supervillains, each with a Christmas-based superpowers: 
 
You know, I tried crafting a response to this. Something about Shaun 
Cassidy, in his secret mastermind ID as the Partridge, operating from his 
P.E.A.R.T.R.E.E. lair and overwhelming the heroes with wave after wave of 
superagents. But I couldn't - the silliness field was just too thick to 
penetrate. 
 
"Yes, and the lords, with 20" each of Superleap...and...urk!" 
 
yours, 
Jason 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 17:13:32 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Zero phase actions 
 
>Greetings! 
> 
>     To Wayne, Bob, Rat, Erol, qts, and anybody else who beat me over the head 
>with this mathematical two-by-four: 
> 
>     Okay, I admit it... I forgot the formula for computing costs after adding 
>modifiers. After taking THAT into account, everything you guys have been 
>saying actually started making sense. 
> 
>      For the crime of unconscionable dim-wittedness, I'm willing to accept 
>whatever public chastisement you deem appropriate. 
 
 
What, and maybe accidentally kill one of the few people I've ever seen admit 
they were wrong on the Net?  You've got to be kidding! :) 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 17:10:52 -0800 (PST) 
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) 
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements 
 
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
>Hash: SHA1 
> 
>"BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes: 
> 
>BG>    It depends.  What's the benefit of doing so?  If there's no real 
>BG> benefit from this ability, call it a Special Effect, or at most a 
>BG> 3-point house-rule Talent. 
> 
>Three points per sense that can be affected, I think.  And I am inclined to 
>make it require a half-phase non-attack action per sense switched on or 
>off.  As a 0 phase or no time action it is too cheap for 'immunity to 
Flash'.           
 
Only thing is, I think they already recognize that people can protect 
themselves absolutely from at least the hearing and sight ones of those by 
covering their ears and turning away/covering their eyes respectively.  I'm 
not sure being able to do the equivelent internally is that much more an 
advantage.  However the phase thing I agree with.  I just can't really see 
it costing anything. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 04:57:49 -0600 
From: "Logan Darklighter" <logand@cyberramp.net> 
Subject: Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
 
- -----Original Message----- 
From: ...jason schneiderman... <werther@hilander.com> 
To: bcholmes@interlog.com <bcholmes@interlog.com> 
Cc: Champions List <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 1:57 AM 
Subject: Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
 
>You know, I tried crafting a response to this. Something about Shaun 
>Cassidy, in his secret mastermind ID as the Partridge, operating from his 
>P.E.A.R.T.R.E.E. lair and overwhelming the heroes with wave after wave of 
>superagents. But I couldn't - the silliness field was just too thick to 
>penetrate. 
> 
>"Yes, and the lords, with 20" each of Superleap...and...urk!" 
 
 
 
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!! 
 
Oh... (wheeze) that's priceless. :D 
 
- -Logan 
 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
- -- 
 "God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable 
game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective 
of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex 
version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite 
stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who 
_smiles all the time_." 
   -Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett 
    _Good Omens_ 
*i.e., everybody. 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
- -- 
Web page: http://www.cyberramp.net/~logand/ 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 07:43:26 -0500 (EST) 
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com> 
Subject: Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
 
On Sun, 27 Dec 1998, James Jandebeur wrote: 
 
> Dasher is a speedster. 
> Prancer is a martial artist. 
> > Dancer gives mental command to dance 
> Vixen is, well, a spy? Femme Fatale type? Has Mind Control vs. Men? 
> Comet is a flying speedster. 
> Cupid, as said, can make people fall in love. 
> Donner: I don't know, what is the derivation of this name? 
 
Thunder. 
 
> Blitzen is an energy projector. 
 
Lightning. 
 
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com  
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html 
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion   
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 98 13:15:45  
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
 
On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 22:13:58 -0800, James Jandebeur wrote: 
 
>Donner: I don't know, what is the derivation of this name? 
 
A brick on an air theme (donner=thunder) - one hit from him and you're 
kebabbed. 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 98 13:10:41  
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: GENKI (The Dark Devil) 
 
On Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:44:39 -0600, Logan Darklighter wrote: 
 
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
>To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org&> Logan Darklighter 
><logand@cyberramp.net> 
>Date: Sunday, December 27, 1998 2:55 PM 
>Subject: Re: GENKI (The Dark Devil) 
> 
> 
>>On Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:45:08 -0600, Logan Darklighter wrote: 
>> 
>>>This is my first outright posting to this group. So please be gentle. 
>>>^_^;;;; 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>Mecha Conversion 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>GENKI (Translation: The Dark Devil) 
>>> 
>>>Val    Char    Cost    Roll    Notes 
>>>45     STR      15        16-    12.5 Tons 
>>>14     Body     ---        12- 
>>>4       SIZE     20 
>>>16     DEF     42 
>>>23     DEX     39        14-    OCV: 8 / DCV: 6 
>>>4       SPD      7                    PHASES: 3, 6, 9, 12 
>>> 
>>>Total Characteristics Cost: 123 
>>> 
>>>Movement: Ground: 20" / 40" Superleap: 28" / 56" 
>>> 
>>>Powers:___________________________________________________________________ 
>> 
>><snip> 
>> 
>>Shouldn't these be in an EC? And should the Bulky limitation apply, as 
>>they aren't bulky for a mecha? 
>> 
>><rest snipped> 
> 
> 
> 
>Pardon me, but specifically what should be in an elemental control? The only 
>thing above your post is the basic stats of the machine. I assume you don't 
>mean those? 
 
Sorry - over-eager snippage there! I meant the powers, including 
movement. 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 07:17:17 -0600 
From: "Logan Darklighter" <logand@cyberramp.net> 
Subject: Re: GENKI (The Dark Devil) 
 
- -----Original Message----- 
From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org&> Logan Darklighter 
<logand@cyberramp.net> 
Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 7:06 AM 
Subject: Re: GENKI (The Dark Devil) 
 
 
>>>>Mecha Conversion 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>GENKI (Translation: The Dark Devil) 
>>>> 
>>>>Val    Char    Cost    Roll    Notes 
>>>>45     STR      15        16-    12.5 Tons 
>>>>14     Body     ---        12- 
>>>>4       SIZE     20 
>>>>16     DEF     42 
>>>>23     DEX     39        14-    OCV: 8 / DCV: 6 
>>>>4       SPD      7                    PHASES: 3, 6, 9, 12 
>>>> 
>>>>Total Characteristics Cost: 123 
>>>> 
>>>>Movement: Ground: 20" / 40" Superleap: 28" / 56" 
>>>> 
>>>>Powers:_________________________________________________________________ 
__ 
>>> 
>>><snip> 
>>> 
>>>Shouldn't these be in an EC? And should the Bulky limitation apply, as 
>>>they aren't bulky for a mecha? 
>>> 
>>><rest snipped> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Pardon me, but specifically what should be in an elemental control? The 
only 
>>thing above your post is the basic stats of the machine. I assume you 
don't 
>>mean those? 
> 
>Sorry - over-eager snippage there! I meant the powers, including 
>movement. 
>qts 
 
Ah. I see. :) 
 
Actually, I suppose they could. And if you want to use this write up and 
alter it to your tastes go right ahead. 
 
I didn't do it myself because, for one thing, the relative real cost values 
are all over the place, and I like tidy figuring. Another thing is that, 
aside from the weapons, I don't see anything that is closely enough related 
to warrant an EC other than the reflex pooster EC. 
 
And as no doubt you noticed, a lot of people on this list HATE Elemental 
Controls for some reason. Every time one is shown, they cringe. Including 
the one in the write up, here. Frankly I don't see the point. But oh well, 
to each their own. 
 
It's probably best to go ahead and show the whole cost of the power anyway, 
so that if someone want's to plop it in a power framework of there own in 
their own game they don't have to do a lot of reverse engineering. 
 
- -Logan 
 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
- -- 
 "God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable 
game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective 
of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex 
version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite 
stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who 
_smiles all the time_." 
   -Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett 
    _Good Omens_ 
*i.e., everybody. 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
- -- 
Web page: http://www.cyberramp.net/~logand/ 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:04:34 EST 
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts) 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Anita Carstairs (was Stupid Precog Tricks) 
 
>>     Precognitive Abilities: 
>> 
>>18	Precognitive Clairsentience, Normal Sight &  
>>	 Hearing, 9- Activation				(4 END) 
> 
>Why not make this NCC As Well for a -1/4 bonus? 
 
Activation is the character's chance to start a power, NCC means the 
character *can't* start the power, only the GM can.  I did think about 
making her visions NCC, but decided I wanted some chance for her to tap 
her power consciously. 
 
>>10	2 Combat Skill Levels: DCV only 
> 
>DCV Only is a -1 Limitation, so this is 5 pts. 
 
The way I'm reading the book, I don't think she would get a limitation.  
A 5-point CSL is usually +1 with a wide group of attacks, but "can serve 
as a +1 DCV against all attacks, if bought as such" (p. 22, Champs 
Deluxe).  I think the lim is already factored in.  Rat, are you following 
this thread?  Anything in the errata about this? 
 
<snip> 
 
>>       	Psych Limitations: 
>>10	  Afraid to tell others about her visions (uncommon, strong) 
> 
>Surely this is going to seriously adversely affect her interactions 
>with the other PCs? 
 
They would know that she's good at aikido, that she's a reasonable 
driver, that she can not only photograph evidence but can develop the 
shots herself -- she can do a lot more than just foresee the future.  
Over a long campaign, though, she *would* need to either buy down the 
disad or make a really good EGO roll to overcome it. 
 
>>10	Distinctive Feature: Style Disadvantage 
> 
>Surely this is only appropriate if you are running a MA campaign? 
 
It's up to the GM.  Presumably any GM that would approve her aikido as 
written has TUMA, so would have the rules for Style Disadvantage.  In a 
heroic setting, martial artists would be a logical opponent, so the disad 
would kick in. 
 
>>10	Susceptability: 2d6 STUN from precognitive visions 
>>	  (instant effect, uncommon) 
> 
>This should be a Side Effect of the Power, not a Disadvantage. How many 
>people are going to hit her with a Precog UAO? 
 
Sorry, I didn't phrase that clearly.  When her visions occur, she takes 
2d6 STUN.  The lowest level of Side Effects would require taking 30 
points of effect on a 45 active point power, and IMHO that's a little out 
of scale.  Susceptability seemed like a more balanced approach. 
 
>Pretty good! 
 
Thanks! 
 
Leah 
 
___________________________________________________________________ 
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. 
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html 
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:48:06 EST 
From: Leuszler@aol.com 
Subject: Christmas Themed Merc Team for Champs 
 
After reading recent discussions regarding a certain team of reindeer being 
converted into agents for Champions, here's my contribution to the 
discussion... Consider it my belated Christmas gift for the list.   
 
If you write ups though... well, let's just say that there will be "Some 
assembly required."   
 
Enjoy. 
 
The Organization is called Santa and his Little Helpers. 
 
They are a team of freelance operatives who operate out of the North Pole.   
 
Dasher: The impatient team speedster who wants to be the leader, but is too 
impatient to wait for other people to do his bidding.  
 
Dancer:  A martial artist who uses dance techniques in combat.  He is also the 
team strategist, and choreographs their attacks. 
 
Prancer:  Mr. Stealth.  The surveillance expert.  He sneaks from shadow to 
shadow, listening and gathering information.  No one trusts him completely. 
He's into blackmail, and is the keeper of Santa's list.  Hates computers, and 
relies on his eidetic memory. 
 
Vixen:  The seductress.  Her kiss is like that of the succubus, in that it 
drains a hero of intelligence and ego, which can only be recovered after a 
long period.  After all, doesn't love make you stupid?  Works well with Cupid. 
 
Comet:  Can generate heat and cold, and likes to throw snowballs that have 
been partially melted and refrozen.  Ice balls!  Ouch.  He can't create major 
ice constructs, but he can slide across smooth surfaces.  His heat is limited 
to his body.  No energy blasts, but he can raise and lower the temperature of 
a room. 
 
Cupid:  The emotion controller.  The team manipulator.  Loves to pit people 
against each other.  His knowledge of emotion also makes his more able to read 
people's body language, and know what a person is really saying.    
 
Donner:  The last Norseman.  Worships Thor and even carries his own hammer, 
that creates a sonic blast.  He lives to fight, drink, and make whoopee.  The 
team muscle. 
 
Blitzen:  The team's master of disguise.  Once he makes physical contact with 
his target, he calls down lightning from the sky, which strikes him.  ZZZZZap. 
You don't want to hold hands with this guy. 
 
Rudolph:  Terminally red nose from constantly dripping nose.  He is the team's 
chemistry and biology sciences guy, who's specialty is diseases. 
 
And of course there's Santa, the big red man in the red suit, who leads the 
team.  The world's most powerful teleporter who pops in, pops out, and likes 
to leave a little present, like an atomic bomb.  He has a weakness for 
children and will avoid hurting them at all costs. 
 
And don't forget the E.L.V.E.S.  Exoskeletal Legion of Very Efficient 
Servants.  Not what you would expect, to say the least.  
 
Mike Leuszler 
The Jolly Old Elf        
  
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:57:53 -0800 (PST) 
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com> 
Subject: Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
 
> Donner: I don't know, what is the derivation of this name? 
Cannibalism. 
 
Sorry. 
 
== 
Elliott  aka  The Egyptoid 
_________________________________________________________ 
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------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:56:54 -0800 (PST) 
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com> 
Subject: Re: The Twelve Supervillains of Christmas 
 
> supervillains, each with a Christmas-based superpowers: 
 
Hey buddy, the Loser Villains thread was last month!   :) 
 
 
 
 
 
  {{and where is that page anyways?}} 
== 
Elliott  aka  The Egyptoid 
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------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:45:39 -0500 
From: werther@hilander.com (...jason schneiderman...) 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Anita Carstairs (was Stupid Precog Tricks) 
 
>>Why not make this NCC As Well for a -1/4 bonus? 
> 
>Activation is the character's chance to start a power, NCC means the 
>character *can't* start the power, only the GM can.  I did think about 
>making her visions NCC, but decided I wanted some chance for her to tap 
>her power consciously. 
 
I think this is a reference to the lesser version of NCC that allows a 
character to initiate a power, but exercise no control over the form it 
takes. The usual analogy is the mentalist who can summon up a Mental 
Illusion of the target's "greatest fear". 
 
- -Jason 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:57:34 -0800 (PST) 
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com> 
Subject: Re: Fwd:  The Twelve Days of Chri... 
 
or Foxworthy's version: 
 eleven wrasslin tickets, 
   tin a Copenhagen, 
    etc. etc. 
     five  flannel  shirts 
      etc. etc. 
       and some parts to a Mustang GT. 
 
we ought to write a Hero version! 
 
"On the first day of Gen-Con, my GM brought to me..." 
== 
Elliott  aka  The Egyptoid 
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------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:36:10 -0500 
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net> 
Subject: Re: Christmas Themed Merc Team for Champs 
 
At 10:48 AM 12/28/98 -0500, Leuszler@aol.com wrote: 
>team.  The world's most powerful teleporter who pops in, pops out, and likes 
>to leave a little present, like an atomic bomb.  He has a weakness for 
>children and will avoid hurting them at all costs. 
 
 
 
That doesn't seem like a contradiction to you? 
 
"Ho, ho, ho!  Merry Christmas little girl.  Oh, by the way, 
 I left a nuke in the living room next door!  You've got  
 until sundown to get out of town!" 
 
Personally, I get a kick out of imagining eight guys standing 
around trying to act intimidating, while telling you, "I'm 
Dasher.  This is Dancer.  And, um ... There's Prancer.  And, 
... uh, well, Vixen,  and ... (ahem) ... that would be ... 
Com-- Hey!  What the hell are you laughing at?!" 
 
 
 
 
======================  ================================================= 
Mike Christodoulou      "Never doubt that a small group of committed  
Cypriot@Concentric.Net   citizens can change the world.  In fact, it is  
(770) 662-5605           the only thing that ever has."  -- Margaret Mead 
======================  ================================================= 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 06:41:38 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements 
 
At 06:14 PM 12/27/98 -0500, ...jason schneiderman... wrote: 
>> For example, he can shut off his vision, his hearing, and just 
>>about all of his senses. 
> 
>As a sidenote... perhaps a few levels of Flash Defense for this? (After 
>all, being able to turn off your visual receptors is a heck of a lot more 
>effective than just shutting your eyes) 
 
   It's debatable.  For lack of another point, I'd guess that having 
effectively infinite Flash Defense in exchange for not being able to use 
the sense in question for that Phase isn't so great.  Like I say, it's 
probably something in the range of a 3-point Talent. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 06:44:58 -0800 
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> 
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements 
 
At 05:38 PM 12/27/98 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote: 
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
>Hash: SHA1 
> 
>"BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes: 
> 
>BG>    It depends.  What's the benefit of doing so?  If there's no real 
>BG> benefit from this ability, call it a Special Effect, or at most a 
>BG> 3-point house-rule Talent. 
> 
>Three points per sense that can be affected, I think.  And I am inclined to 
>make it require a half-phase non-attack action per sense switched on or 
>off.  As a 0 phase or no time action it is too cheap for 'immunity to Flash'. 
 
   On the first point, I'd agree; 3 points per Sense (or, more 
appropriately, per Sense Group).  I'd call it a 0 Phase action, though; 
it's true that it makes the character effectively immune to Flash when it's 
used, but it does so by making the character blind/deaf/whatever at the 
same time. 
- --- 
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page!  [Circle of HEROS member] 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm 
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join? 
   http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:44:08 -0800 (PST) 
From: Brent Sadler <bsadler@rocketmail.com> 
Subject: Define Loss of Balance 
 
I'm looking for a way to define losing one's balance. Special effect 
would be messing with inner ear, or vertigo, for example. 
 
I'm considering Dex Drain, but looking for other alternatives from 
this august assembly. :> 
 
Thanks! 
 
 
=== 
Brent W. Sadler 
 
Time is an illusion.  Lunchtime doubly so. 
- -- Douglas Adams 
 
 
 
_________________________________________________________ 
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------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:27:45 -0500 
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net> 
Subject: Re: Define Loss of Balance 
 
At 09:44 AM 12/28/98 -0800, Brent Sadler wrote: 
>I'm looking for a way to define losing one's balance. Special effect 
>would be messing with inner ear, or vertigo, for example. 
> 
>I'm considering Dex Drain, but looking for other alternatives from 
>this august assembly. :> 
> 
 
Dex Drain is the way I would do it.  In fact, we have a character 
in our campaign that does this.  He shrinks down to the size of a 
pin head and pounds on the target's ear drum.  (I guess you could 
also make a hearing flash out of this, but that's not the way he 
does it.) 
 
 
======================  ================================================= 
Mike Christodoulou      "Never doubt that a small group of committed  
Cypriot@Concentric.Net   citizens can change the world.  In fact, it is  
(770) 662-5605           the only thing that ever has."  -- Margaret Mead 
======================  ================================================= 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:36:04 EST 
From: Leuszler@aol.com 
Subject: Re: Christmas Themed Merc Team for Champs 
 
In a message dated 12/28/98 1:47:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Cypriot@concentric.net writes: 
 
> That doesn't seem like a contradiction to you? 
 
Well, actually, I did say "like an atomic bomb", not "drop an atomic bomb onto 
a school bus."  The a-bomb was an extreme example.  But yeah, it's a bit of a 
contridiction.   
 
Mike Leuszler 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 98 19:00:25  
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Anita Carstairs (was Stupid Precog Tricks) 
 
On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:04:34 EST, Leah L Watts wrote: 
 
>>>     Precognitive Abilities: 
>>> 
>>>18	Precognitive Clairsentience, Normal Sight &  
>>>	 Hearing, 9- Activation				(4 END) 
>> 
>>Why not make this NCC As Well for a -1/4 bonus? 
> 
>Activation is the character's chance to start a power, NCC means the 
>character *can't* start the power, only the GM can.  I did think about 
>making her visions NCC, but decided I wanted some chance for her to tap 
>her power consciously. 
 
Yes, that's why I suggestet a -1/4 *bonus* 
 
>>>10	2 Combat Skill Levels: DCV only 
>> 
>>DCV Only is a -1 Limitation, so this is 5 pts. 
> 
>The way I'm reading the book, I don't think she would get a limitation.  
>A 5-point CSL is usually +1 with a wide group of attacks, but "can serve 
>as a +1 DCV against all attacks, if bought as such" (p. 22, Champs 
>Deluxe).  I think the lim is already factored in.  Rat, are you following 
>this thread?  Anything in the errata about this? 
 
Well, 1 CSL can be used for offense or defense. You're halving its use, 
so a -1 Limitation is appropriate. 
 
> 
><snip> 
> 
>>>       	Psych Limitations: 
>>>10	  Afraid to tell others about her visions (uncommon, strong) 
>> 
>>Surely this is going to seriously adversely affect her interactions 
>>with the other PCs? 
> 
>They would know that she's good at aikido, that she's a reasonable 
>driver, that she can not only photograph evidence but can develop the 
>shots herself -- she can do a lot more than just foresee the future.  
>Over a long campaign, though, she *would* need to either buy down the 
>disad or make a really good EGO roll to overcome it. 
 
But how quickly are the other PCs going to start saying things like, 
"We can see you've just seen something; you *must* tell us."? 
 
>>>10	Distinctive Feature: Style Disadvantage 
>> 
>>Surely this is only appropriate if you are running a MA campaign? 
> 
>It's up to the GM.  Presumably any GM that would approve her aikido as 
>written has TUMA, so would have the rules for Style Disadvantage.  In a 
>heroic setting, martial artists would be a logical opponent, so the disad 
>would kick in. 
 
Fair enough. 
 
>>>10	Susceptability: 2d6 STUN from precognitive visions 
>>>	  (instant effect, uncommon) 
>> 
>>This should be a Side Effect of the Power, not a Disadvantage. How many 
>>people are going to hit her with a Precog UAO? 
> 
>Sorry, I didn't phrase that clearly.  When her visions occur, she takes 
>2d6 STUN.  The lowest level of Side Effects would require taking 30 
>points of effect on a 45 active point power, and IMHO that's a little out 
>of scale.  Susceptability seemed like a more balanced approach. 
 
So make it a Stun Drain with a long recovery interval. Anyway, 2d6 Stun 
is hardly limiting - she'd get it all back within a Turn from 
Recoveries - and the power isn't going to happen often enough to make 
it noticeable. If you're looking for the 'fainting fit' type, then you 
need far more - 6d6 or so. 
 
qts 
 
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk. 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:52:45 -0800 
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> 
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements 
 
- -----Original Message----- 
From: Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin <griffin@txdirect.net> 
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org> 
Cc: ravanos <ravanos@njcu.edu> 
Date: Sunday, December 27, 1998 6:07 AM 
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements 
 
 
>At 02:04 PM 12/26/1998 -0500, Jason Sullivan wrote: 
>> Roboti-X is a synthetic life form.  Unlike his team mates, he can 
>>do things they can't. 
<snip> 
>> His recall is near perfect. 
> 
>If GM and player can't agree to use Eidetic Memory as written to cover 
>this, perhaps you can agree on some Advantage that will modify it to suit 
>your requirements.  What is it, exactly, that you find inadequate about 
>Eidetic Memory at the moment? 
 
 
Well, as written, Eidetic Memory specifically does _not_ give you a perfect 
memory. It specifically gives you the ability to completely memories 
specific things, not _everything_. 
 
IMNSHO, I think Eidetic Memory needs to be rewritten, with several levels 
(Memorize perfectly with study, with concentration, always; memorize short 
term, long term, permanently; etc.) 
 
Filksinger 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:03:14 -0800 
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> 
Subject: Re: Selective Senses and Powers/Percise Measurements 
 
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> 
 
 
 
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
>Hash: SHA1 
> 
>"BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes: 
> 
>BG>    It depends.  What's the benefit of doing so?  If there's no real 
>BG> benefit from this ability, call it a Special Effect, or at most a 
>BG> 3-point house-rule Talent. 
> 
>Three points per sense that can be affected, I think.  And I am inclined to 
>make it require a half-phase non-attack action per sense switched on or 
>off.  As a 0 phase or no time action it is too cheap for 'immunity to 
Flash'. 
 
 
Is it? I can close my eyes, pinch my nose shut, and cover my ears. How many 
more points should it cost to do these things without using my hands, and 
how much better is it than closing my eyes? 
 
The rules have, for some time, completely ignored things like this. For 
example, fighter pilots are required, when expecting nuclear attack, to wear 
an eyepatch. If blinded, they switch eyes. This gives them effective 
immunity to flash, with a 1 phase delay to switch eyes. However, there are 
no rules for this, nor for having extra eyes that only come out when you are 
blinded. 
 
I think this actually needs new rules to extend the existing ones. 
 
Filksinger 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:51:40 -0500 (EST) 
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu> 
Subject: Perfect Memory (The Roboti-X Power) 
 
	Here is the part where memory comes into play... 
 
	While a normal human with photographic memory might be able to 
remember a bearded man entering a building late at night, Roboti-X can 
remember specific details with crystal clarity.  He could count the 
number of buttons on the man's shirt, the ammount of steps he took, the 
speed he was moving, analyze various traits- such as carriage and gait, 
all from memory.  It's all too perfect recall, in addition, he can cross 
reference exact measurements (and also the exact time).  His perceptions 
allow him to look at something for a moment and see such high ammounts of 
detail. 
	How many people can say, in an instant, how may steps are in the 
stairs in their own home (a place in which the resident of the home are 
probally extremely familiar with). 
 
	Pairing a form of limited Postcognition, high perception, 
the ability to discearn speed, distance, and time, etc. with extreme 
accuracy makes for an interesting and extremely useful character concept. 
 
	Add Cramming (restudying a "Crime Scene" over and over again in 
one's own head), Forsenics, Deduction, and Criminology, and you have a 
character who can not only assist in stopping crimes, but also one who can 
help find criminals. 
  
- -+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+- 
"Fools are my theme, let satire be my song."  
	-Lord Byron; English Bards and Scotch Reviewers.  Line 6.  
- -=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_- 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:18:20 -0800 
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net> 
Subject: Re: CHAR: Anita Carstairs (was Stupid Precog Tricks) 
 
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com> 
 
 
 
>>>     Precognitive Abilities: 
<snip> 
> 
>>>10 2 Combat Skill Levels: DCV only 
>> 
>>DCV Only is a -1 Limitation, so this is 5 pts. 
> 
>The way I'm reading the book, I don't think she would get a limitation. 
>A 5-point CSL is usually +1 with a wide group of attacks, but "can serve 
>as a +1 DCV against all attacks, if bought as such" (p. 22, Champs 
>Deluxe).  I think the lim is already factored in.  Rat, are you following 
>this thread?  Anything in the errata about this? 
 
 
Not in the errata, but in the rules themselves. Levels only add to DCV vs 
Ranged attacks (as opposed to HTH), if the levels are 8 pt. Levels, 10 pt. 
Levels, or 5 pt. Levels bought "DCV Only". 
 
Filksinger 
 
><snip> 
> 
>>>       Psych Limitations: 
>>>10   Afraid to tell others about her visions (uncommon, strong) 
>> 
>>Surely this is going to seriously adversely affect her interactions 
>>with the other PCs? 
> 
>They would know that she's good at aikido, that she's a reasonable 
>driver, that she can not only photograph evidence but can develop the 
>shots herself -- she can do a lot more than just foresee the future. 
>Over a long campaign, though, she *would* need to either buy down the 
>disad or make a really good EGO roll to overcome it. 
> 
>>>10 Distinctive Feature: Style Disadvantage 
>> 
>>Surely this is only appropriate if you are running a MA campaign? 
> 
>It's up to the GM.  Presumably any GM that would approve her aikido as 
>written has TUMA, so would have the rules for Style Disadvantage.  In a 
>heroic setting, martial artists would be a logical opponent, so the disad 
>would kick in. 
> 
>>>10 Susceptability: 2d6 STUN from precognitive visions 
>>>   (instant effect, uncommon) 
>> 
>>This should be a Side Effect of the Power, not a Disadvantage. How many 
>>people are going to hit her with a Precog UAO? 
> 
>Sorry, I didn't phrase that clearly.  When her visions occur, she takes 
>2d6 STUN.  The lowest level of Side Effects would require taking 30 
>points of effect on a 45 active point power, and IMHO that's a little out 
>of scale.  Susceptability seemed like a more balanced approach. 
> 
>>Pretty good! 
> 
>Thanks! 
> 
>Leah 
> 
>___________________________________________________________________ 
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. 
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html 
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] 
 
------------------------------ 
 
End of champ-l-digest V1 #111 
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